WRFH/Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM - The Healing Hour: Set Your House in Perfect Order Before You Criticize the World

Episode Date: October 11, 2024

Today, Adriana and Erika discuss Rule Six of Jordan Peterson's Twelve Rules for Life: Set Your House in Perfect Order Before You Criticize the World. They discuss the perils of nihilism, the triumph of choosing healing over harming others, and practical ways to set our own houses in order.

Hello and welcome to the Healing Hour on Radio Free Hillsdale, where we bring you your weekly dose of healing. I'm your host, Adriana Azarian. And I'm your co-host, Erica Kaiba. And we're here to help you become the happiest, healthiest, fullest version of yourself. So good to be back, Erica. So great to be here. We are continuing our journey through Jordan B. Peterson's 12 Rules for Life. So what are we discussing today, Erica?

We are discussing Rule 6 of the 12 Rules for Life, which is, Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world. This reminds me of the advice that Jesus gives us, which is to take the log out of your own eye before taking out the speck in your neighbor's eye. Exactly. So true. Yeah, and he actually brings up some biblical parallels at the end of the chapter, which we could get into. For you for a roadmap to the episode, we're going to be summarizing the chapter,

overall impressions of it. Then we're going to be talking about some really interesting points that Jordan Peterson makes about the effects of nihilism and the very dark places that that can lead you, and as well as the alternative to that, which is choosing meaning and choosing to help the world and others around you instead of choosing to hurt it, which is what nihilism leads you to do. And then also some practical ways that you can look at your life and try to make it better before you criticize the world. Very good.

Let's dive right in. So the chapter I was kind of shocked by the opening because he opens right away. with mass shooters. Yeah. Very, very dark. Yeah. Why do you think that he does that? Well, because the thing they all seem to have in common is the fact that they have a very

nihilistic and negative view of the world. They hate humanity. They hate the way that the world is. I think it's worthless. There's no meaning behind it. And therefore, it's okay for them to destroy it and then destroy themselves because they're miserable. Yeah.

He actually, he even includes quotes from the Columbine School shooters. And so, for example, one of them wrote, the human race isn't worth fighting for, only worth killing. Give the earth back to the animals. They deserve it infinitely more than we do. Nothing means anything anymore. And then Jordan Peterson uses this phrase, which I love, which is that the shooters appointed themselves

as the adjudicators of reality. They're the judges. So they've decided that because they feel that life is meaningless and maybe have good reasons for feeling that way, but regardless, they've put themselves in the position that now they can just kill everybody. because they feel this way. And so that's a very dark place that you can end up if you choose nihilism.

And I think this scary thing, maybe not necessarily that everyone out there is a mass killer, but I think that this has crept into our culture. I mean, it's been in our culture for a very long time, this idea that nothing really matters, you know, make your own, meaning there is no objective reality to things. That should scare us because even if it doesn't make us all mass killers, it does have negative effect on how we view reality and how we relate to reality. That turns into a lot of resentment toward the world. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that the temptation to nihilism, like you said, it's everywhere in our culture. I think we all experience it to some degree. And so I think it's very powerful for him to open with, okay, well, if you want to go down that path a little bit, be careful because this is where that path ultimately leads. So what Jordan Peterson points out, though, is that you don't just... just usually end up at nihilism just because a lot of people who end up in this position have been very seriously hurt in the past. And the example that he gives is the criminal Carl Pansram. He was brutally abused in a detention center and then he went on to commit these absolutely heinous crimes, rape, murder. So he responded to the vile crimes that were committed

against him with more crimes. But it doesn't have to be that way. So what Peterson says is that you can opt for vengeance and he brings up the story of Cain. That's the That's what Kane did. Or you can opt for transformation and actually trying to make the world around you better. So there is an element of free will here. You're not determined by your circumstances. I love that he outlines that. I think a lot of psychologists do fall in the camp of, well, you are determined by whatever bad things happened to.

You will be bad because of that. Like, no, no, we're humans. We are good. Exactly. There's a lot of examples of people who turn their lives around, which is very hopeful. Yeah. No, I remember there was this talk that we all watched in our senior year of high school, and it was by somebody who was an abuse counselor.

And she talked about how destructive the phrase, hurt people, hurt people is, because we associate people who were abused with, okay, well, they're going to go on to abuse more people. And what she said is, no, hurt people, heal people. Like, you use that experience and you have empathy because of it. And so you're not necessarily choosing to pass down the wounds, but to either see it and other people and reach out and how. help them or just to have that knowledge of like, I'm never going to hurt anybody that way ever again, like the way that I was hurt. I'm going to stop the cycle with me, which I think is really

powerful. That is really powerful. And he gives several examples in the book of people that he knows who clients, for example, who were abused and decided instead of hurting more people to actually do something, do something good and help others. So he talks about, for example, an artist who, comes from a similar background as the criminal Pansram who was abused and who was sick as a child and neglected by his parents and who fell into self-destructive behavior so he started drinking hating god himself blind fate included he says and then he talks about how he put an end to all that the book says he stopped drinking he stopped hating although it still emerged in flashes he revitalized the artistic culture of his native tradition and trained young men to continue in his footsteps. He produced a 50-foot totem pole memorializing the events of his life and a canoe 40 feet long from a single log of a kind rarely, if ever, produced now. He brought his family together and held a great potlatch with 16 hours of dancing

and hundreds of people in attendance to express his grief and make peace with the past. He decided to be a good person and then did the impossible things required to live that way. And I love that, you know, because it's not... It's not... It is. And it's not negating the grief that he had from his past wounds. It's acknowledging that. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, you can. It's a both and sort of thing. You can acknowledge the pain that you've had, but also go about it in a good way. So I think that Peterson makes a good point. He always makes good points. But here he's making a really good point that you don't have to ignore your pain to move on from it or to heal from it. In fact, it's facing it in a positive way that's going to bring about healing.

And it has to do with clean. up your own room. Exactly. Instead of making a mess on everyone else's rooms. If you are just tuning in, you are listening to the Healing Hour on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM.

With your host, Adriana Azarian. And your co-host, Erica Kaiba. And we were discussing Rule 6 of Jordan Peterson's 12 Rules for Life. Set your house in perfect order before you criticize the world. We were just talking about basically nihilism

and the choice, how we choose to respond to the wounds that have been inflicted on us in the past, either by behaving in a vengeful way or by choosing transformation and choosing to forgive and to use our pain to do something good in the world. Jordan Peterson in this discussion actually includes a quote from Nietzsche, which I thought was intriguing, intriguing choice. Distress, whether psychic, physical, or intellectual, need not at all produce nihilism, that is, the radical rejection of value, meaning, and

desirability. Such distress always permits a variety of interpretations. Really interesting coming from Nietzsche, because we associate him with nihilism, but what did you think of that quote? Well, isn't Nietzsche saying that, like, you have to make your own meaning from that quote? Yeah, he is. So it, in his sense, it's like subjective, right? It's a subjective kind of meaning. But to, like, to that point, though, I mean, humans can't exist without having some kind of meaning. I think that there is a degree. I mean, obviously, I think there is an objective meaning to the universe that we're all like headed towards. But I do think that Nietzsche does make a point that we need to have meaning in our lives in some form or another, whether or not that be a true meaning or a false meaning to thrive, to be happy, to be fulfilled. And yeah, that makes me think of something that you said at the beginning of the episode, how as a culture we're surrounded by this message that we've got to make our own meaning.

And that can actually lead to nihilism because then you don't know what to make of yourself. right? Because you can you can choose anything. So what do you choose? You end up, you can choose nothing. Well, I mean, if there is no objective meaning to begin with, then it's like, well, what's the point? You know? If it's all made up, then it's just made up, right? So that's something to be worried about. And that explains, I mean, we have a very atheistic society, or at least a society that if God is real doesn't want to acknowledge it or worry about it. So that's what's concerning is there is no overarching meaning in our world. And that's why you're seeing I think a lot of mass killings and a lot of evil and a lot of discontent. So do you think that religion is needed to arrive at the sense of meaning and to avoid nihilism ultimately?

And do you think Christianity specifically? Well, I think Christianity is the answer to all of that. But I think it's the answer because it gives meaning to the world that you wouldn't see if it weren't for the revelation in Christianity. I mean, that being said, people find meaning. And I'm not saying that it's true meaning. people find meaning in other religions too. Man is made to find meaning. The only true meaning I think is found in Christianity though. That's my answer. Yeah. Yeah. And Dr. Peterson alludes to this in the chapter, but he doesn't go into it as fully as maybe he could. He talks about, you know, you need to have a source

of meaning in your life. And he says, well, you should respect the ancient sources of meaning of your culture, including Christianity, one would assume. But I don't think that that's enough. Because like you said, It's one thing to, Jordan Peterson is famous for whenever somebody asks him about his belief in God. He'll say, well, I act as if God exists. But I don't think that anybody can definitively say that God exists. I think he might be moving away from that, but that is what he often responds with. What he used to say, for sure. I think what maybe he's saying and correct me if I'm wrong in this interpretation,

but maybe he's saying it's better to have some kind of meaning, even if it's made up, than to have no meaning at all. Christianity is the objective meaning behind the universe. Like that there is a God, that he's a Trinity, that he's a community of persons. That is the ultimate reality behind like the universe. But maybe Peterson is saying like even if you don't come from that tradition, you can still find some kind of meaning. And that's better than having no meaning and becoming resentful. What kind of meaning would that be, do you think?

Perhaps like, you know, serving your family or having some kind of work that you think helps other people, some kind of duty to other people, probably. Because if you don't have God, then at least you have your fellow man. Which is interesting because those are Christian precepts. I mean, I would say that's pretty universal, the idea of community and being in relationship with people. This is really philosophical. This is not where the healing hour usually goes. I don't know.

It's interesting because it's kind of like you said. I think most people would gravitate towards doing something for your fellow man or a lot of people will associate make my own meaning. I see it a lot of the times associated with their ambitions or creative pursuits. But I think that he brings up Tolstoy in the chapter. And yes. And Tolstoy was expressing, he was extremely successful. And yet at the peak of his career, he's having these extremely destructive and worrying nihilistic thoughts. And he's described as saying, he describes, say, he describes life as.

is basically having no rational purpose. And he says that I could find nothing in the way of rational knowledge except a denial of life. And in faith, I could find nothing except a denial of reason. And this was even more impossible than in a denial of life. According to rational knowledge, it followed that life is evil and people know it. They do not have to live, yet they have lived. And they do live, just as I myself had lived, even though I had known for a long time that life is meaningless and evil. And Jordan Peterson points out a lot in the chapter that if you're awake to what's happening in the world and you're seeing all this people suffering and all these meaningless acts of violence, it's really hard not to succumb to nihilism.

And I think that's the problem with the idea of, well, I can just create my own meaning, right? Because, I mean, if you have the ancient faith traditions that puts all the suffering and evil in a context. But if you're proceeding from the idea that life is meaningless and I can make it whatever I want to be, that doesn't make you God and that doesn't mean, that still means that you can choose a meaning for yourself, but you can't just arbitrarily assign a meaning to all this suffering that's happening in the world. You can't say, oh, well, there's a divine plan that will bring justice ultimately. You only have a guide for you. And so I think that that's kind of a shaky guide to avoid nihilism, if that makes sense. So then you're saying that he's not in favor of making your own meaning.

I think that maybe Jordan Peterson is. I think that he thinks it's better than choosing nihilism. But I personally think that it's incomplete. And I don't know what Jordan Peterson would have to say about that. I mean, it's definitely shaky ground. Yeah. You kind of become your own God. And perhaps in that way, that leads to the idea of resentment towards the world.

because only so much really is in your control. And if you are the god of your own world and you can't save your world, then of course you're going to hate the world. Anyhow. But the point that Jordan Peterson makes, which I think is really important, is that to the extent that we're able to control our own world

and set things in order, we should absolutely do that before we make any sort of turn to criticize the surrounding world or criticize especially being itself. Yes. So that's the idea of setting your house in perfect order. And he says, interestingly, he talks about a hurricane that hit New Orleans. It's very relevant to our times. Yes. And he talks about the Flood Control Act of 1965, which mandated improvements in the levee system that held back Lake Pontchartran.

which was supposed to be completed by 1978, but 40 years later only 60% of the work had been done. Willful blindness and corruption took the city down. And he says, A hurricane is an act of God, but failure to prepare when the necessity for preparation is well known,

that's sin, that's failure to hit the mark. And the wages of sin is death. He quotes Romans there. So I think that that's a really interesting point, that there's a lot that we can't control in the world like we were just talking about, but we can prepare, you know, and we can set our lives in order to the extent that we're able so that when tragedy happens, we have something to buttress ourselves against that, in Peterson's

words elsewhere. So how do we actually apply this knowledge? We're almost at time. Jordan Peterson says, consider your circumstances. Start small. Have you taken full advantage of the opportunities offered to you? Are you working hard on your career or even your job? Or are you letting bitterness and resentment hold you back and drag you down?

Have you made peace with your brother? Are you treating your spouse and your children with dignity and respect? Do you have habits that are destroying your health and well-being? Are you truly shouldering your responsibilities? And ultimately that leads up to the question. Have you cleaned up your life? If the answer is no, here's something to try. Start to stop doing what you know,

to be wrong. Start stopping today. So very powerful advice from Jordan Peterson. What was your reaction to that when you read it? Well, I really liked it because there is a lot that's out of your control that can cause you to suffer, but a lot

of it is in your control. I'll give you an example. A few nights ago, our friends had a fall party and there were toll house crackers, the pita crackers, and there's a lot of salt on them. And I have, I crave salt, like all the time, which is probably not the best thing. Anyhow, I ate so many

crackers and the next day I was so swollen from like retaining so much water from all this salt that I ate and I'm still like getting over it. Anyhow, so I realized, I told myself, I said, Adriana, this is the consequence of your own action. You are suffering now because of what you have, you have done to yourself and you have no one else to blame but yourself. That is suffering that could have been very easily avoided. Erica, I'm telling you. And that's just a small example. I mean, we all have self-destructive behaviors. So if we can identify those and or uproot them, depending on how much they've grown, you can actually reduce a lot of the suffering in your life.

Exactly. And it's like the serenity prayer. It's like the wisdom to know the difference between what you can control and what you can't control is something to pray for. Yeah, so true. So true. Yeah. And when I read it, I kind of started thinking about it in the context. context of the hurricane part for right before treating your life, not as like the whole thing

as a preparation for something bad that might happen, but if everything was taken away from you, what really matters and what should you lean on as a taking that into consideration? And what I thought was if something tragic happened, God forbid, what would really matter in that circumstance is really family and friends. And I was thinking, that's really something that needs to be prioritized. And I've talked about this before, but I think that we can get caught up in the rat race, so to speak,

and always be hung up on a to-do list. If you actually step back and analyze each thing and it's eternal importance, it's not always, I mean, obviously, it's really important to work hard at your job and work hard at your studies.

Like, those are things that benefit your soul. But, like, that time that you have with family and friends and actually giving yourself to other people when they need you, I think that, That's priceless.

Your obituary is not going to say she got an A on her Western Heritage exam. So much from you. Some of us need to hear this. This was not directed at any one person. No, no, no. It's directed at all of you. Yes. Yes.

All right. Well, I think that ends that episode, Erica. We have learned that we should set our house in perfect order. Hey, as soon as we're done filming this, I'm going to be starting to set my house in perfect order, I'll have you know. Oh, yeah. after dinner we're going to get that vacuum out. Oh yeah. Vacuum the entire dorm.

As soon as we hit the red button, it's all over for everyone else. Yes. We're going to be new and improved people. Yes, so true. Well, as always, we'll catch you next week. And we will be discussing Rule 7 of Jordan Peterson's 12 Rules for Life. Pursue what is meaningful, not what is expedient. Ooh, very exciting.

exciting stuff. Catch you next week. Same time, same place. Bye-bye. Bye.