WRFH/Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM - The Hillsdale Interview: Thomas McKenna

Episode Date: June 12, 2024

Thomas McKenna, National Review summer intern and a student at Hillsdale College studying political economy and journalism, joins WRFH to discuss his coverage of pro-Palestinian protesters that surrounded the White House on June 8.

This is Radio Free Hillsdale on 101.7 FM. I'm Gavin Listro, and with me today is Thomas McKenna, a Hillsdale College student and intern at the National Review. Thomas reported last week on a protest which took place outside the White House. You can find his full article at national review.com under the title, Protester surround White House call for Intifada Revolution. I'm guessing this was your first riot that you've ever been to of this kind. So what were your expectations going in? Did you prepare?

Have any measures that you took before you went? Well, I was planning to go to the grocery store, I'll be honest. But then the reporter that we were planning to have cover the protest called in and said that he wasn't going to be able to do it. And so I walked over. I lived pretty close to the White House this summer. And, you know, I was expecting a protest where there might be a lot of anti-Israel things that were said after seeing what had happened on college campuses earlier this year. year, I didn't expect quite so much, you know, explicitly pro-terrorism language coming from some of those protesters, as well as just gross anti-Semitism. So while I expected some fireworks,

I certainly didn't expect the vandalism or some of the things that were said that were anti-Semitic to be directed at me, you know, an Irish kid. So could you tell how organized was? Was this something that seemed pretty planned far ahead, or was it just kind of people showed up? Oh, it was very well planned. You know, there was a slew of organizations that would probably characterize themselves as pro-Palestine that helped organize the protests. People were bused in. There were tons of buses there, and thousands of protesters. I mean, there were enough protesters to create a two-mile-long circle around the White House and the lawn right there. Now, that's a huge amount of people.

And even with that line, there were all kinds of people just kind of milling about or right up there in front of the White House. So this was certainly organized. This was not just some impromptu demonstration that came together the night before. I know you interacted with a few individuals, but on a whole, did there seem to be a cohesive, kind of message going out to the people at the White House and specifically President Biden? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this was not just an anti-Israel protest. This was an anti-Biden protest.

So the premise of the protest, the reason that they made the circle around the White House was to represent the red line that the protesters say President Biden let Israeli forces crossed by entering the city of Rafa, which is on the southern side of the Gaza Strip. So then the significance there is that they dressed in red and they encircled the White House to create that red line. So that seemed to be the overall message, right? It wasn't just saying that they were unhappy with what they called Israel's genocide of Palestinians. And it wasn't even just that they were unhappy with the U.S.'s response overall. They were specifically frustrated by President Biden's response and his continual military aid that he's been sending to Israel.

mentioned in your article, there were phrases being yelled and things on signs. Could you tell if people were aware of what these phrases meant and these things that were being shouted? And could you kind of give the listener kind of a translation of what all that meant? Absolutely. So there were a few things that the protesters chanted that we've seen at college campuses and other protests ever since October 7th. So one thing, for example, was globalized the intifada. In intifada, some people might know is a global call to kill Jews. Another example of something that was chanted is

there's only one solution in Tefada revolution. So once again, we have something that's not just pro-Calstonian or even just anti-Zionists, but anti-Semitic. And then one other thing

that's very common to hear the protests like this one is from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free. And of course, that would require for an elimination of the Jewish state. And that, of course, couldn't happen without killing a lot of Jewish people that are living there between the river and the sea. So at the end of the day, you know, while many of those protesters might have, you know, tried to tell you that they were simply just pro-Palestine or that they thought that Israel was committing genocide, the things that they were chanting. are clearly things that are calling for the killing of Jews around the world.

That's what Intifada mean. This is Radio Free Hillsdale on 101.7 FM. I'm Gavin Leicester, and I'm talking with Hillsdale student and National Review intern Thomas McKenna. Is it fair to give a broad generalization of what kind of people attended this protest? Well, there were people from around the country at this protest. When speakers would go up and they would say things like, do we have anyone here from New York, and the shouts would go up. And do we have anyone here from Colorado?

The shouts would go up. There was a guy I met from South Dakota, right? I mean, people flew in for this thing. This was certainly organized protests. Something to note also about the type of group that was there is, as I mentioned earlier, they were specifically frustrated with President Biden's policy. And another way that we've seen that manifest on the political scene was in Michigan, earlier this year in February, some people in Hillsdale in that state might remember that

100,000 voters came out mostly in Detroit suburbs to vote uncommitted in the Democrat primary instead of voting for President Biden on that ballot. Now, that's 100,000 people who spent the energy to go to the polls just to vote, not for somebody, but just against President Biden in that primary. And they were specifically doing it to protest his policy with Israel, to protest. is the support of Israel in this war. So at the end of the day, the type of people that were at that protest on Saturday

are the same types of people who would go out and vote just to vote against President Biden. And come November, if this war drags on, 100,000 people simply staying home is a huge effect on the president in a swing state like Michigan. President Trump won that state by. only 11,000 votes in 2016. So even if just half about 100,000,

50,000 of those voters who usually vote for Democrats, stay home, that's a huge effect. So that certainly says something about the group that was there on Saturday and the president's chances in November. What was the reaction to the protesters being there? Was there heightened security?

Was it a very hostile face-off between security and the protesters, or was it very civil? You know, it was a mix. There were certainly some tense exchanges, and there was one example of the police using pepper spray on the protester in trying to arrest them, but they got away because, you know, as media report says, the crowd intervened. The White House put up heightened security. They put up a fence.

They're on Pennsylvania Avenue to prevent protesters from getting too close to the actual perimeter of the White House law. And so, you know, there was heightened. security. I saw sometimes exchanges between police and protesters. But it's important to note that there were no arrests made, right, despite the vandalism of monuments, including the statue of Lafayette that's there in that park right across from the White House. Police didn't arrest anyone. And so there are many people who over the past few days have pointed to that and said, you know, there seems to be a double standard here. And that's a take that somebody

I'm proud to say I'm at this name out. It is Charlie Cook here at National Review, he's kind of given that commentary over the past few days. In getting into your own experience at the event, I know you mentioned quite a few experiences that you had with a few of the protesters there that were less than savory.

So can you just explain what happened there? Sure. So let me first say that I'm not of Jewish heritage, right? But I have had friends tell me that I do have some Jewish features. So I did not really realize what that meant until I went to the protest on Saturday. I saw this banner that said jihad of victory or martyrdom Al-Qa'Assan, which just to decipher that for people, that's basically saying,

it's basically a call to kill infidels. we don't really have to explain what jihad and al-Qa-sahom mean. So this is not just protesters who are there. The protesters who are holding that banner aren't just, you know, there to oppose Biden's policy. They're actively calling for terrorism. So I go up to take a picture of the banner, right? I mean, why else would you have a banner?

And so I'm taking the picture, and as I'm taking the picture, this guy who was with the group holding the banner comes up to me. He was in a black ski mask, and earlier he had been chanting along with, you know, the other protesters in that group. Hasbalah, Hezbollah kill another Zionist now. So he comes up to me, and he asks me, sir, how do you feel about Palestine? Sir, are you a Zionist? And I try to walk away. You know, I consider my role in that situation is as a reporter, somebody who's there to be.

document what's happening and tell the reader later what went down. And so I'm not there really to give my opinion. But he follows me around. He has this bullhorn. He has this megaphone. And he's shouting in my face, sir, sir, how do you feel about Palestine? Sir, you're a Zionist. And eventually he decides that I'm absolutely a Zionist.

Not only that, that I'm Jewish. And so he starts to shout in my face and loud enough for everyone around to see here. beware, beware of the Zionists, stay away from the Zionist. And then he just starts to call me a chicken because I'm not saying anything. Then another guy comes up to me on my left side, and he starts, you know, pointing to my nose and asking him if I'm Jewish. And, you know, then a third guy comes up to me and asks, I'm Jewish, and asks what I'm doing there.

And then he starts just saying, Oh, hi, I'm Mazzletov. I mean, once again, I'm not of Jewish heritage. But now all of a sudden there are people making fun of my nose and trying to say that I support genocide. And they start saying what are blatantly anti-Semitic comments directed at a guy who's just Irish. So that was my experience. And that wasn't even the whole of it. So I'm walking away from the protests. I'm like two blocks away from the White House on my way back to my apartment.

and this guy just shouts from his car. He sees me, he shouts from his car, you know. He shouts some things we'll say. He shouts some things that I can't say on the radio about my mother and my father and about what he would do to a Jew if he could and so on and so forth. So that was my experience. It's not something that I was expecting, but I decided to mention it in my story. I prefer that the reporter not be the story.

I don't like using first-person language, but I thought it was important to say that somebody who these people just thought looked Jewish was the recipient of anti-Semitic remarks and harassment. This is Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. I'm Gavin Leicrow, and I'm talking with Thomas McKenna, who is a Hillsdale student and intern at the National Review. You also mentioned in your article that they were quoting, a death count and a very specific number that you mentioned that is not correct? Could you get into that?

Yeah, so there were lots of signs. There were lots of speakers who said that Israel has killed something, you know, more than 40,000 Palestinian civilians, for example. And without getting too into the weeds here, those numbers that they're citing are basically from a Hamas-controlled health ministry, the Gaza health ministry. And what's unfortunate is that many media outlets here in the West have just taken those numbers at face value, and they continue to do so. In some cases, they'll have caveat. But they'll also print the numbers and headlines.

You know, this is true of a place like the Washington Post. But it turns out that those numbers have found to be pretty faulty in a lot of cases. It's still hard to tell exactly what the death toll is. but, you know, AP analysis was saying that number is probably closer to 20,000. And so, you know, the Associated Press release and analysis discrediting that figure, the United Nations stopped accepting those figures last month. And, yeah, I thought it was worth noting in my report that all of these protesters, these speakers, they're still citing numbers that are coming from a terrorist-controlled government organization.

And at the end of the day, you know, if we're going to make informed decisions, about foreign policy in America, then we need to have our facts right. Do you feel that there is a parallel between these riots and the riots during the 2020 election? Yeah, I think that there's definitely a thread that you can draw between them. And the way I'd characterize that threat

is an increasing use and acceptance of violence and vandalism as some legitimate means of protest, right? So, of course, in the United States, we have a First Amendment rights. to free speech. We want a free exchange of ideas. We want you to be able to protest. But you're not allowed to vandalize statues and memorials or stores, right, as was the case a few years ago. But increasingly, we're seeing not only the use of that as a means of protest, but also

people in the media, people in politics, just deciding that, you know, their cause is so righteous and so worthy, so just, that we really just need to look the other way and accept that this is just a means of them making their voices heard. But I think that, you know, I think that, you know, somebody who's going to Hillsville right now, I'm a rising junior there, and somebody who's trying to study more and more the roots of our liberties in America, I think it's pretty clear that the moment we start to let vandalism and violence take over as a means of, quote, unquote, making our voices heard, that's the time when things start to unravel. You know, there are many things that could be said about that and what that means from the United States going forward.

But I think it's just fair to say that when we start allowing vandalism and violence, we're on the wrong track as a country and as a free people. What's the other news coverage that you've seen on this? Has it been pretty fair? Or, you know, what's your summary of that? Yeah, so there have been some outlets that have written about things like the vandalism of the Lafayette statue. For example, like the Washington Post had a story about that. They sent a local reporter there.

But I did notice in many media stories, I think it was the Washington Post's initial story, for example. There were certain things I saw that they just left out. And one of those things was that banner in that group that were chanting Hezbollah, Hezbollah, kill another Zionist now, or kill another soldier now. So, you know, when those groups are there and they're up front or there are other protesters chanting for Intifada Revolution, then it was frustrating to see outlets like the Washington Post sometimes leave that out. I'll give you another example.

The New York Times did keep in the chant about Intifada Revolution. and globalizing the Intifada. But the language that they used was peculiar. They said something like many Jewish groups have said that these chants are calling for the killing of Jews. But then they quoted one protester who said, that's not what it means at all. So there is some language game happening. And some of these outlets kind of feel that they can report on this, but give it a certain angle so that we're, no longer have the meaning that people for years, for decades, have agreed that they have.

So that's just a sampling of the media coverage that we've seen. And that's why it's important for outlets to send reporters to the actual scene and to do that kind of journalism and to try to call it as they see it. My only last question is just, do you have anything that you think the listener, as someone who is there, should hear, or any final thoughts? Yeah, I think you asked a good question earlier about violence and vandalism and how we've seen that more and more over the past few years. I think another point that I might make on that would be that we should expect to see more and more of that as these crimes aren't prosecuted. There were no arrests made on Saturday, and as we see the war continue, and it doesn't seem that Biden's policy on Israel is going to change very much.

As we see the election season start to heat up, we should look out for kind of a degrading a infringement on the rights of others by kind of degrading law and order. Not to be too Hillsdale here, but, you know, President Lincoln talked about this in his Lyceum address, right? That we need to follow the law in order to keep the order of society. And if that continues to happen without consequence, then we're looking at pretty dark times. Well, thank you so much. I appreciate your time and, you know, speaking about your experience. Thank you, Gavin, for having me on.

Our guest has been Hillsdale College student and intern at the National Review, McKenna, who reported last week on the protest outside the White House. You can find his full article at national review.com under the title, Protesters surround White House, call for Intifada Revolutions. And I'm Gavin Lestrow on Radio Free Hillsdale, 101.7 FM.