WRFH/Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM - The Social Mediators: Starbucks Policies and Boycotts

Episode Date: April 16, 2025

This week we discuss the new Starbucks policies and challenging the validity of its connection to the Starbucks boycott. Tune in to hear about free refills, no more free water, and the reinvigoration of Starbucks as a third place. 

The Social Mediators on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM, where we examine the truth disparity between what's on social media and what's actually true. I'm Julian Parks. And I'm Garrett Gouldsby. And today we're going to talk about Starbucks. I don't think we've ever talked about Starbucks on the social mediators. I don't think so. I don't think we have, but we're going to bring it into the limelight today. Starbucks is actually a big part of pop culture, just from like generally people engage with it, drink a lot of different extravagant drinks. They stop in there a lot. but not for long, but also just because Starbucks find itself, I think Starbucks makes everybody mad. It finds a way to make every person on every side of the aisle mad by supporting or not supporting one cause or another. It's pretty incredible the way that it manages to alienate all groups of people. So that is actually what's happening currently. Do you know anything about the boycott? Have you heard about this at all, Garrett? Yeah, I've got a fair amount of information on this boycott. It's, Starbucks is hurting right now financially actually because of not only the last year was terrible for them, but now this year they kind of started to rebound a little bit and now

this is happening and it's not looking good for investors in Starbucks. We'll talk about some theories, some social media theories ranging from probably true to probably not true. Um, but I'm going to start by telling you what I know about the boycott, which is, is, I know a lot of people say that they're doing it. And a lot of people bully. other people for not doing it. I don't know how effective it's been because I don't have any of that information. I know that it started because it's like the Starbucks Union. I think it's called like Starbucks Workers United put out, I think it's the union of those workers if they have a union, but use the logo of Starbucks to put out a statement that said that they stand with Palestine and that

like the baristas that are a part of this all are Palestinian. Sinian supporters. And then Starbucks came out and basically, they didn't come out with a statement, but they wrote a letter that got posted and passed around that said basically like, we're going to pursue legal action against these guys for using our logo to support Palestine. So basically what happened is people that were Jewish saw the post about Palestine and said, I'm not shopping at Starbucks anymore. And people who saw the letter follow up that wasn't overtly sitting with Palestine thought, oh, that they must support Israel. and then put out, and then they said they weren't going to buy anything from them anymore. So it's like this miscommunication happening where no one's buying from Starbucks anymore because of these kind of miscommunicative statements that were passed.

I don't exactly know where they stand. I think they probably have a range of stands, just depending on who's working higher up in the company. I don't know where the CEO stands. I really don't. I can't tell. The CEO is the one that's been kind of the point person for rolling out all these new policies. But the way that the boycott, I think, at least social media has said that it is related. is that Starbucks is trying to put in new policies to revamp all of the lost sales that they've had.

In one place I saw that it was like 11 to 12 billion market value. I don't know what market value is, though, so you're going to have to tell me what market value is. But then someone said something about like 2% of global sales, which doesn't sound like a lot to me, but maybe for Starbucks, 2% of local sales is a big deal. Not local. Global. The word is global. 2% of global sales, it might be a big deal for a giant company, but I mean, 2% to me sounds minuscule. And people think that because of this drop and this new, and because of the boycott,

this is why the prices or why the sales have dropped and this is why they're trying to instigate, like put in new policies. People who don't buy that, there are a lot of people who are saying it's not the boycott. Boycotts don't do anything. Boycotts don't have any effect, especially because outside of social media, I have no idea how prevalent this is. Are people still shopping at Starbucks? are people not shopping at Starbucks. I have absolutely no idea. But I know that people are saying that, no,

there are people out there that are saying that, no, it's not the boycott. It's the fact that the drinks are so expensive and people can't justify incorporating them into their lifestyle anymore. So they're trying to come up with new policies to make the Starbucks experience a more high-end experience.

And I think that is the tale, at least the company is trying to tell. I think the company doesn't want to give credibility to the boycotts by saying, like, oh, the boycotts are real and they're actually really hurting us. So I think they're trying to push forward this idea that they're trying to elevate the Starbucks experience with these new policies that are going to hopefully make it feel more of a quote unquote high-end coffee getting experience.

So the policies I was able to find the number one one that people are like really like up in arms about is that you have to purchase something in order to gain access to the in-store amenities. So bathrooms, Wi-Fi, where people used to just come in and sit at the coffee. coffee shop as kind of a third space. Now you have to buy something to be there. And that also includes free water because Starbucks used to be famous for being a place that you could go drive through, get free water, leave. And now it's not. A lot of people are saying this is an anti-homeless policy. And there's a lot of videos of people who are homeless. I don't know why they have phones. I don't have the answer. But people who are homeless with phones, filming workers coming up

to them and being like, hey, you need to leave. You haven't bought anything. And then being like, just trying to enjoy my day. And the comments are not like raw, raw homeless guy. The comments are like, you're harassing this worker. He's just trying to instigate. Like he's just trying to, what's the word I'm looking for? Implement store policy. He's just been told what to do.

He's not, he's not the enemy here. So there's actually, there's not a lot of like pro. And apparently there's been a lot of braces that have come out in comments, in videos saying homeless people have been a really big problem at Starbucks, coming in kind of trashing their bathrooms, loitering. I mean, a lot of these people are on drugs, mind-altering drugs so they cause a scene. They freak out. They can be dangerous. There's a lot of fights that have been cited.

So it is, I think, a barista protection thing from what I can tell. It's true. And it does seem to be that way. But the CEO, when he was asked in an interview, like a Wall Street Journal interview on Instagram that I saw, they were asked, why are you doing this? And he was like, it's just not, he was super PR trained. And he's like, it's just so that our baristas feel respected by the people that come in and and want to like give our place business

and he was talking about a story of a person who came in and sat and just ate lunch at their establishment getting lunch from another place and like that is the sort of thing they're trying to mitigate but it could be the homeless thing he's just not allowed to say that I don't really know another policy that they're implementing is they're removing a bunch of menu items and people are freaking out really yes because they're basically removing all of the frapuccinos

which I didn't know we were still getting those to be honest with you that was like when I was like 11 and sometimes when I'm in an airport that's frappuccino land other than that no chance am I drinking a drink with 300 grams of sugar in it. But they got rid of a bunch of those. They also got rid of a brownie. And apparently all of the baristas are dying over the lack of the brownie. That's a new summer policy, apparently.

There's no more brownie. Poor baristas. People apparently used to eat it to get through their shift, really. Oh. Another thing that they're changing is they're going to reduce promotions through the app. They're going to send less of those out, I guess, to make it seem like more of an elite experience. they're doing free refills, which has been a thing for a long time now, from what I can tell. It might have been just through the app, rewards members or something, but now it seems to be more across the board.

You can ask, I think, for it to come in a ceramic mug or in a reusable container of some sort. You have to give it back and then they wash it. I think if I'm right, this is meant to be a sustainability thing. It's just an attempt to enhance the nice coffee shop experience. You know, if you go to a little local coffee shop, they're not going to serve you coffee in like a paper cup or something like that. I guess that's fair. And so they're just trying to enhance that kind of vibe.

I just feel like I don't want a dish that's been washed by really busy baristas. You know what I mean? Well, it hasn't been washed by them. They've got industrial dishwashers that they stick it in. So they're doing like the whole, they're probably sanitary. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I worked at a restaurant and I can tell you we were not particularly sanitary. I mean, we put our things through a sanitizer, but it wasn't like foolproof.

and it was kind of gross. There are codes they have to meet. I don't think that's something you need to be super worried about. Well, I don't go anyway. So either way, it's not a worry. But that is something on social media, people are like, I would rather just have the plastic cup. And honestly, that's kind of how I feel too.

I'd rather just throw it away. And kill the planet. Yeah, maybe. Because you can't recycle it. We covered that many episodes ago. Recycling's not even real, guys. It's fake, basically. It's not real.

The free refills are definitely limited to things like iced coffee, hot coffee teas and iced teas. Okay, here's the thing, though, is like every other normal coffee shop that's not a chain does that. Is that real? Yes. If you go to, like any of the coffee shops in town here in Hillsdale, if you buy a drip coffee and I have my mug of drip coffee, I finish it, I can take it to the counter and they'll just refill it. Okay, so I don't drink coffee, so I don't know anything, but that sounds crazy to me. That feels like you're buying like four drinks for one.

Well, think about it this way. If I pay $4 for a cup of drip coffee, which is pretty typical, I mean, $250 to $4 is typical most places. It does not cost them $4 to have basically two tablespoons of ground coffee and water. Yeah, true, true, true. So it's like only specific things. I feel like, I mean, there's got to be some, like, exceptions. You can't get certain flavors or add-ons.

But in videos, I was seeing girls were getting their fancy added-on lattes refilled. It might be a lie, but it seems that that was happening to some degree. The last thing that I found that was new in their policies is that the braces have to write on the cups. Have you seen this? Yes. Okay. It looks really dumb.

And the bristas don't like it because it's extra. work for them when they're busy. People don't like it. People are being dramatic about it because they're going into their boyfriend and their boyfriend's getting a slightly nicer note than they are and they're worried the bruce is flirting with their boyfriend. Like that sort of thing is very much awkward. Everyone's reading into it. People are are getting their cups. Like I saw one video that was making me laugh that just had two cups on the on the little counter where you come to get your drink that said like wow and cool on them with exclamation points. So they really don't have time to write out like you're awesome and you're doing great.

which is pretty funny. The next step, according to the CEO, is that they're going to get mobile orders fixed because right now apparently mobile orders are going out way in advance of when people are hoping to go pick them up. So that's what he's working on for the next policy update, which I don't know if you care about that, but that's happening.

Yeah, that seemed to be the gist of all the Starbucks things. I don't know if it's boycott-related or if it really is just like people can't justify spending $9 on a latte anymore. You'll have to come in and help me with that. For those of you who are just tuning in to the social mediators on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. I'm Julian Parks. And I'm Garrett Goulsby.

We're talking about Starbucks. So I'm a little, I'm curious, does social media say anything about the strikes, about the worker strikes? I mean, yes, I've seen worker strikes, but they always say they're like, well, I guess there was one worker strike I saw that was just because of they wanted to be paid more. But I'm telling you, the discourse around Starbucks is that it's. bad because it supports Israel. That is exactly, that's what social media is talking about, and that is really most of what you're going to be able to find. If people hate Starbucks, it's because people say it's a bad corporation to work for, but those are the kinds of people that are saying any corporation is bad to work for. So the conversation around Starbucks

right now is that it's bad because it is pro-Israel, even though the letter they put out, I mean, I did get to see it on social media. It doesn't say we're pro-Israel. It says, we're not putting out a statement about being pro-Palestine. So, And as you, I think, pretty aptly pointed out at the beginning of the episode, they managed to make everybody a little bit upset. You're right. They're so good at that. When you actually look at, okay, what does the company's quote unquote stance on these things as if we needed to look to companies for political stances? But that's a different subject.

They don't have a strong one. Like, it's not, they've supported some groups that are pro-Israel. Yeah. They, you know, it's not super clear, you know. It's not like they're taking a hard line stand and just saying, you know, screw Palestine. Right. No, not far from it. So the fact that people are getting really up and arms in that is just, if it's another excuse to cause noise, it seems like. Okay, let's talk about why Starbucks is making these changes, where these come from, and what they are.

So starting a couple of years ago, I really think 2023 was probably when this really started to happen. Starbucks sales just started to precipitously drop. Oh, back in 2023? Yeah. The big decrease, we saw. was last year in the year 2024, 2% market value. Okay, what does that mean?

Market value is, so, you know, companies, they're these huge entities, they're worth lots of money, but people can buy them, right? Elon Musk is an excellent example. He buys big stuff all the time. The market value of a company like Starbucks

is how much theoretically it could be bought for. Do you know how much that is? Yes, it's about $37 billion. And here's the thing, 2% of $37 billion is $720 million. So it's a lot of money. It's a lot of money.

Okay. And that's the global market value. The U.S. market has gone down even more. Global market's doing a little bit better than the U.S. market. I saw some estimates that said a 10% drop in sales was seen over the course of 2024, which represents many millions of dollars. Did you see my 11 to 12 billion number anywhere? 11 to 12 billion dollars.

I saw some people mentioning. that number tied to loss of revenue due to worker strikes, or not revenue rather, but value, right, market value due to worker strikes. And I think the overall consensus of all the financial analyst people that I read was

that, no, it actually doesn't have to do with the strikes necessarily. It's just that like Starbucks, their sales strategy, their marketing strategy hasn't been good. They just, like, business, from a business perspective, haven't been run in such a way that they're going to it's been run poorly, not mismanaged, just that the vision that the past CEO had, now they have a new CEO, was not reflecting what the market needed and wanted.

And do you think that's because of the fact that the drinks are so expensive and people can't justify paying for them? That's definitely a big part of it, right? You know, who's going to go and pay, I mean, even, like, even if I buy, like, I don't know, a medium drip coffee, it's going to be more expensive at Starbucks than at, like, the boutique coffee shop down the street that roast their own coffee. And so people can say what they want, but as somebody that, like, I drink just black coffee, right?

Starbucks doesn't have the best black coffee, you know, it's fine, but it's not the best. You know, why would I pay more to go to Starbucks, you know? And so they're trying to fix that. They're trying to revamp the quality, keep their costs low. part of what keeps their cost so high is that they have to maintain this crazy inventory of like weird ingredients to make all these different drinks. They have to pay enough people and train enough people to know how to make them efficiently. And all of this has slowed Starbucks down tremendously and driven up their prices because they want to make, you know, they have a projected sales that they

want to make. And if they're selling fewer drinks because the drinks take longer to make and fewer people are buying each kind of drink, well, they need to make them more expensive. Right. Or they have to make their menu smaller. Exactly. So that's what they've done, right? They've cut, I believe, 30% of their menu is the number I saw. And, you know, I'm not a frequent Starbucks visitor, so I have no idea how frequently people buy the things that they cut. But it sounds like, from what you're saying is actually quite a lot. I mean, I don't buy them either, but it seems social media is really upset about it just from the comments. But it's so, like, it's so weirdly isolated. You know what I mean? Like, from social media, you'd think that not a single person on planet Earth supports Israel. So, like, these are the sorts of sources. that I need to like kind of think before I really discover how much of a big deal it actually is. Are people really ordering the caramel ribbon crunch for Appetino? I don't know. I guess they are, but not to a great enough frequency to where the CEO said, oh, we have to keep that because that's driving sales.

Right. Right. So he's cut out this new guy, nickel, I think is his last name. I don't know how to pronounce it. I know what his face looks like. He actually, for a while, was the CEO of Chipotle. What? Yeah, turn the brand around, actually.

They're now much more successful than they were. prior to his taking on that job. So he's a very successful man. He's very good at his job. And he's trying to make these changes to transition more back to the feel of like a nice local coffee shop. Because that's kind of Starbucks roots. And yeah, so they don't really have that now, right? Most Starbucks, when you go in, they're not super comfortable places to sit in.

They don't have, you know, nice, comfy places to sit. You get your plastic cup to have your coffee in or something like that. And it's not really a place you're going to stay unless you need one. Wi-Fi pretty much. And people who are staying typically aren't even really buying anything, right? Exactly. So they're trying to kind of get people rightly ordered in their minds in terms of the experience of Starbucks, which is you come in, you buy your coffee, you sit there because it's a

nice place to be. And then you spend a while there. And, you know, the longer you spend there, okay, I get a refill. That's a good thing, too. They're also trying to separate the mobile order process from the in-store experience. So that just means that people that are ordering things on the mobile app. won't get, you know, they're not coming in and kind of disrupting the atmosphere of the in-store experience. I wonder if that's why they're choosing to cut down on mobile app promotions and stuff.

I know that's part of it. To bring that down in terms of the experience. That kind of makes sense. And it also, for the baristas, it just makes it really, really crazy, right? They're trying to manage people in the store asking them different questions and ordering different things and, you know, say, oh, well, I need some more of this. Can you do this for me? And then they have, you know, 15 mobile orders coming in and they're of increasing complexity. That's a big, thing that this CEO is about is like over the past five years the drinks that people order have gotten incredibly complex well they did that thing in 2023 where they were like you can get any drink with olive oil did you see that no they did this promotion where you could do any drink and add olive oil to

it it was like this complicated added thing I doubt anybody really did it but that's one of the things that they rolled back they said you can no longer put olive oil in your drink that's incredibly weird yeah he's trying to eliminate all eliminate all of these kind of specialty things just because it makes life really hard on the baristas. Now let's talk about the baristas really quick because they're striking, right? And they have a couple of times. And they're trying to organize into this union and what they essentially want is fair contracts. Okay. So their argument right now is that when they, when you agree to be a Starbucks employee, the contract you're agreeing to is not sufficient to pay rent or subsist in this economy, which fair. But part of me, and this is just my own gloss, so to take it for

what it's worth, but part of me wonders, like, have we just come to expect a job at Starbucks to be a full-time job where you can support yourself? Whereas I think maybe 20 years ago, 15 years ago, it would have been seen as like a job for a college kid part-time, trying to, you know, have a little extra money or high school. Anyway, just an interesting thing. As far as whether or not Starbucks is a good or bad corporation to work for, one of the interesting things is that so many people have relied on being a Starbucks barista as a full-time job because unlike most jobs that pay as little as Starbucks would pay, you know, just a barista, they give you really good benefits. And I know people, there's a lot of gripes about what the benefits are, right? Okay, it doesn't

make health care affordable, yada, yada, yada, yada. Most places, if you're being paid $15 an hour, they're not giving you any benefits, right? Right. You're just like a lowly stooge, right? So, okay, what are they asking for? What are the, what are the union people asking for? They want a 66% increase in wage, which would amount to, right now they're, on average, paid about $15 an hour if you're a barista. They want to get paid about $25 an hour. Wow. Which is not a low hourly rate.

Okay? I know it's not all the money in the world, but for making coffee, and to discount that it's not a hard job, but right, there are lots of hard jobs that get paid way less. And so it's a little bit like, okay, don't we all want to get paid more? You know, I get it. But they're not saying this is explicitly tied to Israel or Palestine. This is like living and being able to afford being alive. Yeah, the strikes are not Palestine related from what I can tell.

Okay, so then my, this is not a question that you're going to be able to answer. This is more of just a hypothetical people to ponder question. My question would be, is it true that maybe the news and where you're getting your information is just suppressing the Israel-Palestine aspect of it to make it seem like it's more of an internal issue? Or is it that social media has hyped up this Israel-Palestine? Palestine thing to be the end-all, be all of these strikes and this experience when actually that doesn't reflect what people are actually striking for and when people are actually trying to fight for. Are they two separate issues? Do they both exist at the same time?

I don't know what the relationship is there, but the fact that you didn't encounter any of that that was the bulk of what I found is super interesting to me. Yeah. I did find, I watched several interviews with people that were on strike and all of them were talking about, yeah, we don't have enough money to pay for a living. None of them were out there for Palestinian gripes. Very interesting. Very interesting. Are we ready to give social media a grade? I think so. Okay. Three, two, one.

N-A. Not applicable. What? Like, you took the wrong test, I guess. You know? I mean, yeah, we're talking about two different things completely. It's like turning in your English test for a history class. We're talking about totally different issues, I think. I think you're right. I think there's not a lot of comparison that can be going on here because it seems to be that we're missing each other lost in translation. So do it you well with that. I hope you can come to your own

conclusions on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. I'm Julian Parks. And we're the social mediators and we'll talk to you next week.