WRFH/Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM - The WRFH Interview: János Csák

Episode Date: October 23, 2025

János Csák, Hungarian businessman, former Minister of Culture and Innovation of Hungary from 2022 to 2024, and former Ambassador of Hungary to the United Kingdom from 2011 to 2014, joins WRFH host Sophia Mandt for a wide-ranging interview.From 10/22/25. 

You're listening to Sophia Mant interview Hungary's former Minister of Culture, Janice Chak, on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. Shock has a rather impressive resume and has been introduced as a leading Hungarian businessman, honorary professor of management, former ambassador of Hungary to the United Kingdom, and also Hungary's former Minister of Culture and Innovation, a position he held between May 2022 and June 2024. So my first question for you is, how did your studies in sociology and finance assist you with these varying positions? First of all, thank you for the invitation. It's a privilege to be here.

And answering your question, when I was a student in Budapest, this was during the still the communist time and sociology was not a well-accepted science because the communist. and the Communist Party didn't want people to think about as a society, as a community. So it was really pioneering from my professors to fight for that department. And what you learn, when you study finance and sociology, is that in finance you can see different organizations like a skeleton, like an x-ray. You see the bones, you see the structure. But actually what is happening with those is sociology, the juice, the muscles and all the organs that actually make the skeleton work.

And I had the privilege to work in business, in government, in academia, and it came very handy to understand both sides. It's like having a x-ray and a lab to understand. what is going on. So it's very helpful. You argue for the importance of virtues in leading and guiding a country. Can you expound upon how you understand the importance and meaning behind the moral virtues and how you work to incorporate these values while you were leading your country or helping to lead? You use the word virtue, but if we go back to the origins of the Western thinking And the hardest we can reach back is ancient Greek philosophers and writers like Homer, 800 years before Christ or Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and the others, sometime 24, 2,600 years ago.

And for them living in city-states, it was possible to think about how a community, a polythe-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a. and political community can work together. And they figured that the key element is excellence or virtue. If you look at the ancient text, they used a different word, R-A-T-E-R-E-T-E, which is excellence. And they claimed that excellence is required in all walks of life. excellence is different for all of us because we are born with different talents, different potential and the measure is not to compare yourself to other people, but actually to compare

yourself, yourself yesterday and how much you can improve. And they maintained, and that was the expression what Aristotle coined, that we are social animals. We naturally. We naturally. really live in community. So therefore, a reti or excellence applies not only for you as a human person, but also as a part of the society.

And a good society, a good political community, can exist only if there are people who keep that in mind. And this is, I think, a long-lasting, I would venture to say

eternal, requirement in the modernity as well. Think about your own institution, either the university or the companies you will work for or government departments or municipalities. In my experience, in academia, business and government and politics, is that good institutions can be ruined by leaders that are not excellent. And badly working organizations can be really improved by good leaders who are excellent. So answering your question, yes, Aretei, or as you said, virtue or excellence, really counts throughout times.

Thank you. What are some of the biggest cultural contrasts and differences you've noticed between the country, America versus Hungary? Huh. That's an interesting question. You know, last year I published a book called The Genius of America, published in New York, because I worked, I studied here in the US, and I was always amazed by the success. I think US represents the climax of the Western civilization. but it's young

you're going to be 250 years old next year my country is 1100 years old in Europe but the nation goes back way longer

I would say we have a lot in common first of all we are both part of the Western civilization we both love our

country and community. We are both curious about how to keep the political community together to be able to achieve common goals and what are those common goals. So we don't see ourselves just victims of

history, which is an opportunity, but a huge responsibility as well. From Hungary, we see the U.S. as land of the But if you look at the Hungarian history, Hungary is a land of the free. Today is 22nd of October. Tomorrow 23rd of October and we are celebrating the outbreak of the Hungarian revolution in 1956. Imagine a country of 10 million revolting against the Soviet Union where only the armed forces were 10 million.

Isn't that crazy? it is. And I think Americans are crazy in many ways. So I think we have more in common than not. And this is why so many Hungarians who arrive to the US because of the tragedies or problems in the history in Central Eastern Europe, they embedded themselves so quickly and successfully in the United States. I think the most important common trait between us is always looking at ourselves, how we can better ourselves. And I see much more in common than the difference. Thank you. How does one encourage others to see the philosophical and contemplative life as valuable,

in a culture that oftentimes seems to value maximum efficiency and action. First of all, we are all different. As I mentioned, first you have to understand yourself, your talent or your potential. Some people are good at sports. Some people good at caring about other people. Some people are good at engineering or mechanical things. So there is no such thing that one size fits all. In the same time, what is common that we all intentionally or consciously or unconsciously,

we often reflect on what is happening with us. And what is happening is something that we want, or we are just shoveled by these circumstances. And I think to be a human being means that you consciously try to reflect on the different stages of your life, the different turns, and create a piece of art of yourself.

The Jesuits, the Catholic order, they have a interesting saying. They say contemplation in action. That is contemplation in action. And it's very sympathetic for me because modern life can be very quick, accelerated, demanding, but still you have to take out some time.

And this is the wisdom what even in the Western world we always knew. there is a book, the Vinnie DePoo. And most of the people know it from the childhood. And you remember Vinny DePoo when he was perplexed, when he was confused, he went out to the corner of their land and sat down and said, okay, ting, ting, ting, ting. Now, if a teddy bear should do it time to time,

how come that human beings not? And contemplation can be seen as a grandiose concept. But it's simple. You just sit down somewhere where you are alone and wander. And actually, partly this is why I like Hillsdale. Because the original concept of the school, in Latin Schola, is contemplating, letting your thoughts wandering around things. And a higher education institute,

and I was responsible as a minister for the higher education as well, I always urged universities that while transmitting technical knowledge and know-hows to the students, let them just contemplate. Let them consider how those technical knowledge is, the answers of how we do things fit into the bigger picture that why we do things

as an individual and as a member of an institution like university and as a member of the society or as a member of your family existing or future family Thank you what would your response be

to someone who would argue against the concept of a unified Western culture and or values I have never heard anybody who would have said that. Because if someone says that there are no values and I start digging into it and ask, what are your values, then sooner than later it comes out that he or she has values, but it's not the same as the other person.

And the next step in the discussion is that, whether there are universal values. And I go even further, not in the Western civilization, but globally, throughout times and spaces. And in 2017, I established a think tank. The idea was that, and the name is Future Potential, and we looked at different. social entities, countries, companies, institutions, even families, whether we can trace some

signs that in an entity there is a future potential. And in order to do that, we had to go back and look at the different sciences like history, sociology, evolutionary, psychology, political philosophy, you name it. for the lasting human wisdom. And we found that there are such things, just to name one, peace and security. St. Thomas Aquinas, and before him, many thinkers, said that if there is no peace and security,

the efforts of any entity has to be dedicated to re-establish peace and security because otherwise you cannot operate and you cannot progress. If there is a chaos I cannot send my eight years old daughter or granddaughter to the school because it's insecure. So I will focus on that or attachment. We all want to belong to somewhere. And in evolutionary psychology, they even claim that this is the deepest human need. And the opposite, the excommunication, is the worst kind of penalty. If you think about in a prison, there is still, there is a solitary cell. So even in prison, there is a deeper penalty or care.

And you want to provide for yourself and your loved ones in a way as you like it. Like in the Declaration of the Independence, life, liberty and pursuit of happiness in your way. So these things are universal. These things were true as goals and goods in life, human goods. for an Egyptian 30,000 years ago, and most probably for a Japanese or a Mexican 10,000 years down the road. You're listening to Sophia Mant, interview Hungary's former Minister of Culture. Janice Chak on Radio Free Hillsdale, 101.7 FM. You obviously are fluent in more than one language.

How has your knowledge of multiple tongues changed your way, perhaps of understanding or seeing things. Very much. The Hungarian language is a language of Turkic and Ugrian origins. Our structure is very much

different from the Indo-European or Indo-German languages or the Slavic languages, which is, for example, English or Latin and others. And language or spoken language is a reflection of way of thinking.

I give you an example. In English, you put the smaller things in front. So your first name is first, your family name is second. In Hungary, it's the other way around. The family is bigger and more important than you. So you come after your family name. Or in dates, you say 22nd of October 2025. We go the other way around 2025, October 22nd.

Because we think that, or this is the heritage what we have, that you have to start with an understanding of the whole and then come to the smaller parts. Actually, it goes back to even to the Greek way of thinking. So they started wandering around the sky. and the stars and the universe, as they said, cosmos. And they compared it, cosmos, which is an ordered entity in comparison with chaos.

And they said that this is true for the human being, health and illness. And this is good for this society, order or anarchy. And, but always start with the bigger game. And there is not, between these two ways of looking at the world, it's not some kind of ranking that which is better or worse. But knowing different languages and understanding the underlying logic helps you to see things in the world under different eyes. unconsciously.

And in human thinking, the more, if you can see the world through different glasses, you will be, you will have a much richer understanding and comprehension. And you will have a better way to understand other ways of thinking. Thank you. Can you speak on the process of. translating certain texts into your own tongue and why you chose to translate certain works. The reason was that when we read books and texts, in particular when you are a student at a university and you are under huge load of to be read things, sometimes you think you read it,

but you just jump over on things. This is how, mind is built. So if you really want to understand something, you have to either write it down or make notes or structure it in a way that it lasts in your mind faithfully to what is actually was written. And the first book I translated, it was Robert Piersig's Lila. I read his first book, the Zen and the Art of the Motorcycle maintenance and I liked it very much. But the second book was not translated into Hungarian

and when I was flying back home from New York at that time as a executive or CEO of a large company, an oil and gas company, I was chairman and I read it and I thought

that okay not all of my Hungarian compatriots can speak English, but this is a book they have to read. So that was the trigger. And translation for me is a kind of contemplation, because you have to put yourself into a state when you give up what you think

and you have to faithfully follow the text and the spirit of the book. And for me, this is one of the best acts. Unfortunately, I'm ripped off it by the AI because it can translate. But since I translated books and I decided I translate books that has a meaning for me and that are good enough that I think I want to share. It's like when you go to a restaurant and you like the food, you share it with your friends. Hey, go there.

Thank you. speak of the value in studying and reading ancient philosophy, such as the works of the Pre-Socratics, Plato and Aristotle. So I was wondering, what's something that a Presocratic figure has taught you or that you've learned from reading some of the works of the Presbycratics? You know, my hero is Socrates himself, whose works was put together and in forms of dialogues published by Plato. But when I talk about ancient philosophies, I would rather say that thinkers. And before Plato and Socrates, I will mention two, Homer, the Ilias and the Odysseille,

and also Hesiodos, who actually recorded basic everyday activity. but in such a way that for me, when I read them, I go back to normalcy, how a simple life was lived. Because in modernity, although we have lots of challenges and many people in the world have lots of challenges, but our basic human nature has not changed. And had we have the challenge, to provide for ourselves through, you know, be on the field all the day, and getting back home, eat, and just fall into the bed. That would be an entirely different life. And nowadays we have the luxury, because we have money, to buy things.

So we don't need to work that much. And not everybody can... master the life, to use the disposable time in wise ways. And Humir, Hesiodos, and the writers, not only in Europe, but in Asia as well, give very interesting advice how to think about your potential, how to think about your talent. Thank you. Likewise, what are some of the some things that you've learned from the writings of Plato and Aristotle? They were very systematic thinkers. And for example, when I gave this presentation here at Hillsdale,

I highlighted Aristotle's systematic thinking about what mode of life want to live. Because when you are 20, 22, the whole wide world is open for you. So you can go to business and the moneymaking where the price of your activity is money and enjoyment of money. But you can work for the community as well, political life in one way or another, which is a life that as Aristotle maintains is a noble life.

because we can do much more together than alone. And to advance the community is a very noble enterprise. And he says that there is a third way of life or third mode, which is the contemplation, contemplative life, or philosophy, or thinking, if you can afford it. And if you can do it in a simple way, anchored into the into the real life, in my opinion,

as Aristotle maintained. And these things, I just mentioned one example, the systematic thinking and the consideration of consequences of a statement and what does it really mean

is refreshing. In the today's world, and in particular in the world of social media and whatnot, there are so many shallow and anonymous opinions that actually degrades the human mind. Because it still occupies place in your mind. We don't have time for fact, check, everything. And if you don't develop your mind for systematic thinking and consequential, logical thinking, then you are in trouble.

And there is no better vein than read systematic thinkers. Thank you. Do you find the genius behind America to be increasingly fragmented and obscured? Or, contrary, would you in fact disagree with this premise? In general, in the Western world, we cannot deny that there is a tendency

of extreme individualization. It's social, it's psychological, and it can be seen in different ways. The new phenomenon is that small groups promote ideas as if they were groups different from the rest of the this society. I think it's a dangerous thing because if you break a society into smaller and smaller parts in a way that you want to create tension and promote resentment against the whole and try to tear down the values on which your country was built, it's very dangerous.

And we cannot deny that it's been going on in the United States. And I'm not saying that there has not been rivalries between towns or cities. Even quarrels. And in Europe we had many small wars between cities. But that didn't mean that they undermine the fundamental values and human goods of that overall social entity. So I think it's very dangerous. But to tackle it, one way to tackle it is to criticize, analyze and say,

there is a friend of mine who says that all these small movements should be seen as religious costs, because it's not political, it's not social. they want you to believe that they are right, they have rights against you. But I think if we want to survive, we have to bring a better example, a better vision. And when we are talking about leadership in a country, in a city, in a corporation, in a family, When there is a quarrel or there is trouble within the community, you can be a part of the conflict, and we are. But the best way is to show the way out of it. To have a vision of the future state of affairs that is better for everyone than keeping this quarrel.

there is a phenomenon on and in a marriage there is a problem oftentimes people have a child so there is some common venture through which they can mend their relationship or nowadays have a dog or cat and and and have something that is beyond the bilateral conflict sometimes it works but for social entities again companies cities and others if you have common goals and you are your story is compelling

and the goal is attractive then most of the good people will sign up but just to try to criticize and tackle those who want to ruin our world is not enough

thank you What qualities do you find especially important for those who are looking to serve the community via politics? In short, I would say informed mind and good heart. In a longer version, I think you have to be able to understand complexity. There are so many, when you are faced or confronted with a issue in, let's say, in a small municipality, which street you mend, which street you build or which part of the municipality you want to improve and why. You have to understand your constituency. You have to understand the cost. You have to understand the medium run.

how much resources you will have that other places is reconstructed as well. So the bigger, the organization, the biggest challenge. And then be able to explain to your constituency why you made that decision. Why that decision is partly useful, but partly just. Because people are not just rational animals, they have emotions. And they have a very strong feeling about what is just, what is unjust. I would even venture to say that St. Paul suggested that the love is written into our heart. I think the justice, what is just, what is unjust is written into our heart as well.

And the third is that you have to have perseverance. You have to be determined to deliver. what you want to do, what you decided. Oftentimes, we have great plans, never materialized. And it's important that we fantasize, we plan things, but the real impact is when you do it. And again, going back to the ancient Greeks, this is what they said, that virtue or excellence or arete is active exercise.

It's not just sitting back in your room or a clearing in the wood. So contemplation has its place, but execution has its place as well. Thank you. Are there any further closing statements or comments that you'd like to add? Your questions were so thorough and made me drink. I think one more issue is that the US in particular, but even Europe, other than this new war between Russia and Ukraine and obviously we had the war on the Balkans in the former Yugoslavia, but in general, we live in a pretty peaceful time. And for young people like you, you will live hopefully a long, long life. So you will have the chance to live a life to make some money.

In the meantime or after that working for the community and even for contemplation. So the best thing is to have a round life. with family, friends, a corner, a Winnie de Poo corner somewhere and nurturing the community around you. Because you can love the humanity only if you can get by with the people who are around you. Thank you. You have listening to Sophia Mant interview Janice Shuck on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM.

Thank you.