WRFH/Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM - Wherefore Art Thou, Romeo?: Infidelity, Pornography, and Sex

Episode Date: November 12, 2025

Join Greg and Emily as they welcome guest, Adriana Azarian, senior Politics major at Hillsdale College. These three dive into several heavier topics surrounding relationships including questions like, "what to do if he cheats," "how ought we to respond to the issue of pornography," and "what to do about the shame surrounding sex."

Batman doesn't do ships, as in me. You? Complete men. You are a murderer of love! I'm George, George McFie. I'm your density. It is not about the nail. No matter when, no matter who, any man has a chance to sweep any woman off her feet.

You're listening to Where For Art Thou, Romeo, the show that discusses how to navigate romantic relationships and how to achieve a mean between the extremes of hookup culture and over-d discerned dating. Here's your host, Emily Shudy. Welcome to Where For Art Thel Romeo, the show where we talk about how to follow your heart without losing your mind. My name is Emily Shuddy and my co-host, is licensed, marriage therapist, and also my dad, Greg Shuddy. We're all navigating relationships every day, but sometimes the most intimate. are also the most challenging. Our goal is to help you get out of your own head when it comes to your or even your friends' relationship questions and concerns. Speaking of friends' relationship questions and concerns, today in the studio, we have a guest. Audriana Assyrian. Yay!

Audriana, you are in fact our very first ever guest that is not a member of my own family. So, this is very exciting. Hopefully I don't mess up. hopefully this starts a new trend of more people wanting to do this yes that is that is our hope so adriana do you want to tell us a little bit about yourself i would be happy to uh yes as emily said i'm adriana azarian i am from minneapolis minnesota and let's see i am a politics and journalism student i'm a senior at hillsdale college and i'm just so excited to be here today so thank you so much for having me we're so excited to have you here in lieu of cupid or stupid today adriana has a little story question for us. Yes. So I was talking to a friend yesterday. She just came back from a wedding

in another state. And she was telling me that the bride and the groom have been dating since high school. But when they first started dating in high school, the now groom cheated on his girlfriend. And it seems like, you know, they've at least ostensibly reconciled and are very excited about going into marriage together. But my question for you, Mr. Shuddy, is, you know, if Perhaps, you know, one of your daughters or, you know, maybe a client came to you with this concern of, like, there's been cheating in the past. Do you think that's something that's forgivable? Is that in a dating relationship, something you can move on from? Or would you have advice against that? Well, if it was my daughter, I would invite the gentleman over and he could help me clean my shotgun while we talk. No, I'm just kidding. No, we would definitely have, you know, if it was one of my daughters, we'd definitely be having a conversation because I think that there's a lot that plays into that.

And I see this a lot in even couples that I do therapy with is that, you know, they'll say my spouse cheated on me, but it was back when we were, you know, dating or engaged. And there's still this lack of trust that continues to, you know, go through the relationship. So I guess what I would say is it's not impossible, but it is definitely something that's going to have to be dug into and dealt with. Because, I mean, think about that. If you were engaged with someone and they cheated on you, what do you think you're going to deal with now from this point on? I mean, personally, if I were ever in a dating relationship like that, I think I would cut things off at that point. because I think that would just be too much trust lost. At the same time, I think, you know,

I think the stakes are a lot higher in marriage when you've, like, agreed to enter into a covenant with someone. You have to kind of move forward. But I'm curious, like, what does that even look like? How can you rebuild that trust? I mean, I don't know. Maybe you have advice for this. I'm sure that you've dealt with this with your own clients.

I think it's also tough just because it happened so early on in their relationship, too. If it happened back in high school, I guess I would want to know, like, what do we mean by cheating here? Was it just like that he went out as another girl or that he did things that he really shouldn't have? I think it was the latter. Well, I think that's the key is that, you know, the difference between an emotional affair and a sexual affair. And even sometimes the more damaging, believe it or not, is the emotional. Really?

Because a lot of times the sexual is one of those where they didn't have the emotional investment. They were just into a sexual addiction or into pornography and they went too far in a situation. emotional means that they've delved into the relationship more and sharing more of their heart, sharing more of their frustrations, and they're not doing that with their significant other or their wife or husband. Yeah, so that you're right. And I think that you've got a good point there, Adriana, which is if you're dating or engaged, it should give you a pause and go, either we need to time out and really look at this and talk, or maybe it's one of those, I'm not sure this is for me, because this could be a lifetime of someone that's, you know, building a habit or, you know,

the question is always why? Why did they do that? Yeah, it sounds like, and I don't want to give too many details because it's a friend of a friend, but it sounds like there's still some trust issues. I just can't imagine having to deal with that for a lifetime. Let me just say part of the process that people have to go through is first for the one who's been cheated on, it's grief. there's a grief process because what you thought you had is died and now you have to rebuild. So yeah, if you're not married to the person, that's, that's, it's like what am I rebuilding here? Is this really even worth it? But if you're married, you know, a lot of times you had some, hopefully you had some good in your marriage before something like that happened.

But there's the grief process, which is hard to go through because there's the anger and the sadness and the frustration and gathering of information. and that in and of itself can be very doubly traumatic because a lot of times the one who's been cheated on, they'll keep asking more, who was it? You know, what did they look like? What kind of perfume did they wear? What did, I'm not going to get into the detail. But they'll want all the detail and ultimately I have to counsel them on, you know, be careful with that because a lot of times it's just retramatizing. What you're really looking at is what didn't I give you that made you want to go somewhere else?

And that's a hard thing, too, because then it's the question of, what, are you blaming me for this? No. But that's still a question that a spouse will deal with in their head. So yeah, it's very complex when you're talking that infidelity. And usually for it to succeed takes a huge transformation. So I'd want to know what's going on with this gentleman. You know, is he in the pornography? Is he done this before? Is he, you know, had a history of sleeping around before this relationship? It also seems like it would be challenging because as it can be a point of contention throughout the relationship, it could also be a point of constantly holding it over the other person's head, you know, from the woman's side. Like, well, you did this to me and you need to shape up. Yeah, and that's a good point too. I see a lot of people, even when they've cheated in the dating or the engaged, is that you see it just keep coming up in the marriage. So, yeah, it's going to take a huge transformation on his part. to be more transparent, to build more clarity, more, well, the best word is that transparency because I think that's the hard part about today. And I say to this, the married couples is be careful with this thing, the phone, because that's where so many keep these secret lives and all of that. You're listening to Wherefore Artho Romeo, where we are discussing what to do if he cheats with Adriana Azarian. I'm your host, Emily Shodi, and my co-host is licensed

marriage therapist, Greg Shody here on Radio Free Hillsdale, 101. 1.7 FM. It's very interesting, Greg, that you've brought up the topic of pornography several times because I think that this is something that Adriana had some questions about as well. Yes, I wanted to ask because I have come across the statistic that I believe 95% of men at this point, young men have been exposed to pornography at some point in their lives. And I know coming from a Christian perspective and amongst, you know, a lot of my female Christian friends, it's a big priority for us that we don't want. to be married or get into relationships with men who have active pornography addictions. But since it's a much more widespread problem that we've thought, how should women react? Because should we be, I don't want to say lowering our standards, but how ought we to move forward with this kind of data? Well, and that's kind of the scourge of the day and times that we live in now. And that's one of the things that I see often in therapy and have to address. It's important to say that it's not just men. Women in pornography is really ramping up more and more. It's worse for men

because we're more visual, but yeah, a lot of women now are getting more and more into it. So this is, this is a huge problem that's not being fully addressed as it should. So yeah, I've seen this where even when I'm talking with men and I'm seeing some of the patterns in their relationship, I don't even ask if they're in pornography. I usually ask them sort of to surprise them, how long have you been into pornography and I'll get these you know these guys looking at me like wait a minute how'd you know this and it's just like well some of this is pretty obvious so that's that's kind of the bad news but there are a lot of men today that are fighting it anybody that my daughter dates and ends up marrying I'm going to sit down with them and I've already done this where I'm going to ask

them what's your plan for dealing with pornography and I don't even assume that they're into it or not it's one of those, do you have a plan for this? Because if you don't, then I've got a concern. It's you're not thinking through the fact that this is something that's going to face all of us. And so, you know, there are men today, and there's young men that I know that are really doing a lot of digging in to try and build more transparency, have an accountability partner. And then with some who continue to struggle, my question is, is when are you going to do the hard part to really? get this out of your life. And that's the kind of thing I think that's going to be important for you ladies when you're dating someone is you don't want to first confront every man, you know, hey, what's your plan with pornography before I, you know, you ask me out here? Because that first date

must know. Are you about ready to ask me out? Okay, first tell me. But I think at some point when you're getting serious with them is to really ask, you know, is this something that you've struggled with, but even more so, it's what is your plan for dealing with this? And there are things that the gentleman can do and they're going to need to, because if not, yes, it will undermine your marriage. Now, you saw those statistics. Are you hearing a lot of other people that are struggling with or that women are worried about? Well, it's a conversation actually that Emily and I had had a few weeks ago in my kitchen, which is I was asking, you know, why aren't guys asking girls out? And she was saying, well, I mean, this is a big problem amongst young men is that they maybe just don't

feel like they're ready to be in a relationship with women if they have this ongoing issue, which leads into my next question, actually, which is, do you think that a man needs to be totally, like, unaddicted before he gets into a relationship, or at least working on it? Yes, I think if someone's active in it, then they are not ready to be in a relationship, because it's going to skew their ability to really treat you as you should be and respect that those boundaries in that area, because it just really skews that view. But if they are working on it, the question is, is how are, are they working on it and do they see it as a problem? Do they understand the breadth of the problem, too? Because there's a lot of people that don't. They don't understand that they think it's a victimless problem. Like these women or these men, they choose to do this. And so they're okay with this. But they don't understand the depth of depravity in pornography. So first and foremost, does this person that you want to date have they dug into that? Secondly, do they have a plan and are they sticking to that plan?

We all struggle with something. If we never date someone because they're struggling with problems in their lives, we're never going to date. But are we trying to become better? Is that person who's been deep into it without a plan? And that's the other thing, is how long have they been into it? Because if this is someone who's been doing it for, you know, since they were four, and that sounds crazy, but I had a gentleman come in saying that.

But some, you know, it's been years and they're not doing anything for counseling. not in any kind of 12-step group. They don't see it as a problem. They're trying to deal with it on their own. That's another thing. Is it someone that's seeking out counseling, seeking out a sport group or a sex addiction therapist or group if it's been deep? But there are others who just get into it a little bit and they're fighting it. So the level of that's also important. But yeah, I strongly believe that they need to be actively working on it, have a plan before they're really able to start being in a relationship successfully. This is a reminder that you're listening to Wherefore Art Thel Romeo,

where we are discussing the issue of pornography with Adriana Azarian. I'm your host, Emily Shoddy, and my co-host is licensed marriage therapist to Greg Shoddy here on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. And, you know, one of the things I would also say is there's some great resources out there, Matt Frad. I don't know if you've ever heard of Matt. I love Matt Fred. Yeah, he's got a lot of good stuff out there. there. I just heard, I can't remember what it is. I just heard a new resource that I don't know if

it's a newer one that he's had out for a while, something like pornography and the myth or the myth of pornography or something like that. I got to look into it because I'm always looking for resources, but he's got a lot of good stuff. And another one is fight the new drug. The more we're educated on it and the more support we have going through it, you know, that's going to be important. But I think the bigger thing is when you've gotten an alcohol addiction, what do they say? Well, don't go into a bar. Well, don't have alcohol in your home. Well, the problem is, today it's one of those don't do pornography, but yet we have computers everywhere. We have phones on us at all times. Today, this is one of those things that your generation is going to have to

figure out is how to deal with that because it's too easily accessible. And that's why, again, I'm always asking, what's your plan? What are you doing to deal with that? I know that this is also a problem that women are struggling with, but I think also for the women who maybe are not struggling with that, to the extreme that the men in their lives are, I think we can also get pushed this kind of purity culture mentality of like, well, make sure that you don't tempt the men

because they all have this problem. So you've got to make sure that the way that you dress is modest so you're not tempting them. But I think that that has been a really challenging thing to have that kind of shoved down our throats. But I think that, Adriana, you had some thoughts on this. Yes. It's been a big discussion right now in just Catholic circles in real life and online of this idea of how much purity culture has damaged our views of marriage and sexual relationships because, you know, on one hand, you know, the Catholic Church teaches that sex is good, it's beautiful, but then you also have purity culture, which is like, oh, sex is good, but, like,

you have to be pure. And, like, your whole value is based on, like, how modestly you dress and, like, whether or not you wear a purity ring. And, you know, when you're kind of exposed to that from a young age, and I've talked to a lot of women around our age range who are honestly afraid of marriage and very afraid of sex because they associate with being very dirty and very sinful. And then on another extreme, you have hookup culture, which thinks nothing of it and thinks that it's a very casual thing. So how would you broach talking to young people about sex? Because it seems like purity culture and hookup culture are not viable options. So what do you think hasn't worked in all of that? Because I think that I hear this a lot where just say no to sex,

just say no to sex. Yeah. But is that purity culture also being taught the beauty of sex and God's gift for that one-flesh union? Or what's your experience in seeing that? Well, from what I've talked to other people about and from what I've been reading about. Not that they weren't taught that sex wasn't good, but because they've been taught, like, so much say no to sex, say no to sex, like suppress, whatever. Like, just they have a very negative association with sex and have a hard time getting out of the mindset of like, oh, it's sinful. Because like, it is sinful outside of the context of marriage, but then once they do get married, it's very hard for them to switch that off in their minds. So I'm just curious to know what

your thoughts are on that phenomenon. Yeah. No, I think that definitely can go one way or the other In the hookup culture, we're always trying to call people out of it and really understand the detriment in that prior to marriage, because with sex comes the release of neurochemicals and the brain, which really bonds us. And it makes it hard when you're constantly bonding, breaking, bonding, breaking. So trying to change that whole mentality has been very difficult. But we're seeing a lot of good change in that. But you're right. The other thing is that even in marriage, even people who. kind of got a balance with that. So many couples struggle with sex because we don't talk about

it. And I think that that's the other thing is, especially with the purity piece, is that we haven't talked about it. We've, you know, saved it for marriage. It's been so guarded that even then we're not coming in and talking and sharing and exploring that with each other. And that's where it becomes damaging versus talking about it. And I think what happens there is, like I said, with married couples is we don't talk about it. We turn out the lights and we just hope that it works. And when it doesn't or when the other does something that we don't like and we don't talk about it, it starts to build resentment. We pull away from it. And then we start to have this difficulty in our sexual union. So I think it would be nice if we had more people talking to newlyweds

and to engage couples about not just the beauty of sex, but even, you know, this is the hard part for me as a therapist, but I'm glad that I do it, is so many people come in and they want to dig in and they go into the privacy of their bedroom with me, and I'm like, okay, don't get overwhelmed. You can do this because people need to hear, you know, even ways to navigate it once you're married, because we don't even talk about that.

We don't talk about things that's just like, ooh, we shouldn't talk about foreplay. Well, this is a whole part that's really important. And in both realms, it's important to bring people back to that middle ground, where we save sex for marriage, but we also realize the beauty of working as a couple in the enjoyment of it. Even St. Pope John Paul II in his theology of the body talked about the importance of even trying to work as a couple towards climaxing together. or the other thing that we're not telling people about, I think it's in both realms too, even the ones who've tried to keep that purity because I'm seeing a lot more people who are okay with masturbation. And they don't realize how much that even kills the ability to, you know, join into that

sexual act successfully because it creates a pattern. I don't mean to get in the detail here, but it creates a pattern that's hard for your spouse to be able to replicate. So I wish parents felt comfortable to talk with their kids about these kind of things because kids, they're thinking about this. They want to know this. But again, I think so many parents are struggling today too. So yeah, Satan has really messed this whole area up. But it's going to come down to those who are far to the left, I don't know if that's the right way to put it, who are in the hookup culture, we've got to show them the damaging effects of that. But those who are in the purity culture, there's a beauty there, but we also have to help them talk

more and explore more and give them ideas of how to navigate that sexual realm successfully because nobody wants to talk about it. Are there any works of John Paul I second that you'd recommend young people to read to kind of delve more into this topic? The theology of the body, period. And there's a lot of different ones out there. I wouldn't go to like Christopher West in his 12, you know, CD series right away. I did that. And yeah, that was overwhelming. It took a long way or a long time to get through that. But just any type of writing on the theology of the body, even if it's a more simple version of it, because I think there's a lot of beauty in that. And even for married couples to rediscover the beauty of being male and female

and the complimentary of us in marriage. Thank you both. This has been a wonderful conversation. I know this is, these are challenging topics. And it's like, it can be really hard to dive into that. So thank you, Adriana, for being courageous and asking those questions. I just want to remind you all that relationships are a process. They take time and effort. We just want to help you balance your head and your heart. This is your friendly reminder to not be discouraged because if you haven't found you Romeo or Juliet, create a scavenger hunt with friends. If you have questions that you would like us to address, please email them to E-S-S-C-H-U-T-T-E at Hillsdale. and we will discuss them in future shows.

Please check us out on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows to catch anything you have missed or want to hear again. You can follow us on Instagram at Romeo underscore Romeo 2003 or check out our website, Whereforearthell Romeo. That's all for Whereforeart thou Romeo. I'm Emily Shuddy. And I'm Greg Shuddy. And I'm Adriana Azaria on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. Thank you.