WRFH/Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM - Wherefore Art Thou, Romeo?: Intimacy Revisited

Episode Date: February 27, 2025

Emily and Greg Schutte revisit the topic of intimacy in dating with a focus on modes of communication like texting. They also dive into topics like the needs we have as humans whether they be physical, mental, or emotional and how these relate to intimacy in a relationship.

Batman doesn't do ships, as in me. You complete me. I'm George, George McFly. I'm your density. It is not about the nail. No matter when, no matter who, any man has a chance to sweep any woman off her feet. You're listening to Where For Art Thou, Romeo? The show that discusses how to navigate romantic relationships

and how to achieve a mean between the extremes of hookup culture and over-discerned dating. Here's your host, Emily Shuddy. Welcome to Wherefore Art Thel Romeo, the show where we talk about how to follow your heart without losing your mind. My name is Emily Shuddy, and my co-host is licensed marriage therapist and also my dad, Greg Shuddy. We're all navigating relationships every day, but sometimes the most intimate are also the most challenging. Our goal is to help you get out of your own head when it comes to your or even your friend's relationship questions and concerns. So last time we chatted, we were talking about intimacy and briefly looked at the role of texting in a relationship. But I know, Greg, both of us felt like there was so much more to say.

I personally just realized, I think, through our conversations, how vast the topic of relationships is in general, and particularly just this conversation about intimacy and communication. So I'm thinking maybe we should just take a look back to and continue the discussion that we were having previously. And I think the last thing we talked about, we briefly touched on that question from our listeners, should I text her or him if we aren't dating? No, I'm glad that you're doing this because, yeah, we did kind of talk about that uneasiness with this. And I think we need to refer back to the very beginning of when we started all of this. So if people haven't listened or they have forgotten is that, you know, relationships are a process. And this isn't a once and done.

Listen to this program and it'll fix, you know, this whole intimacy part of your relationship. No, really we could talk about intimacy probably for the next year and, you know, and still be scratching for more. So just when people are listening to this, don't, you know, don't walk away from this with, well, that didn't help me. And that wasn't enough. Or, yeah, I disagree with. I think this is something that, you know, why it's going to be a process. And that's why as a therapist, it's frustrating because you want a once and done, but that's why people come back because it's, you know, it's walking through these things

and really in dealing with it with their particular situation. And everybody listening, you know, it'll be like, well, that doesn't apply to me or other people will be like, oh, man, that hits home. Well, good, good. So, yeah, I think we need to jump into that a little bit deeper because there's so much more that could be said about that. Yeah, yeah. So at the end of our conversation, we were talking about the issue of texting when you're not dating and that whole concept. And you had pretty strong words about that.

I think it's interesting that you say, you know, what we say isn't necessarily a once and done or an after. is something to really like help people navigate their situations. But you did you did have some pretty strong absolute words about this topic. Oh yeah. And I can see it on your face that you're like, what? I can just I can just see the listeners going, what? This is a bunch of, no. And I this, you know, there's a part of it that I'm sure other people would argue with me on.

But really, you know, if we go back to. the whole how to avoid falling for a jerk or jerk at by John Van App, Dr. John Van App. You know, one of the things that he says in building a relationship, it takes three things. It's time, it's talk, and it's togetherness. And I think that so many people forget that combination. This is why even long-distance relationships are very difficult, and you've got to figure out, you know, how you're going to navigate that, because first it takes time.

You can't build something quickly. And when we're talking about intimacy, it is not something, and I want to be very clear about this. It is never something that's given too quickly or taken too lightly. Because intimacy is that showing a deeper part of yourself in order to see if this person is someone

that's going to take that and honor it and be that helpmate someday or someone who's going to minimize it, disregard it, or some people even abuse it. And that's what we don't want. Yeah. But so again, it takes time. You can't rush a relationship.

It takes talk. We have to communicate. We have to share a little, receive a little. And I've seen these relationships too where someone's like, you know, I've told him a lot, but I don't get a lot from him. Or I've told her a lot, but I don't get a lot. or much back from her. That's lopsided.

And that could be, you know, something that really comes back to haunt. It's like, are they just gathering information, but they're not willing to be vulnerable back? Again, that talks about someone. But the third one, which is so important, is togetherness. Why is that important? Because, you know, they often, they had studies that show that 93% of your message that's communicated is through nonverbal,

communication and tone. Tell me how much of that you can tell through texting. Probably not a lot. Not a lot. We always talk about how you can miss so many things, especially like the mean, because we sometimes mean different things.

By the way, we say our words. Our inflection has so much. As a rhetoric and media major, I'm thinking a lot about this, like how we say our words. And so it does indicate certain things to people about what we mean. And so you can't always tell that via text. And one of the ones that is most commonly talked about is sarcasm.

It's really hard to tell sarcasm over text. Right. And I think sometimes people do the text because maybe this is the wrong way to say it. It's kind of a safer place because I don't have to deal with you up front. I don't have to deal with your emotions. I can kind of throw it out to you but not have to answer right away. whatever it might be, but to me, I think it's the most dangerous. And let me explain, because I even tell people in marriage, people who are married,

you know, don't be texting deep conversations, emotional issues, problems. Because again, there's so much that's misread in that, and I have heard it over and over and over again. Now, you put this in the context of a dating couple who, were trying to get to know each other, now you've complicated it even more. And here's the other thing that I think is so important for people to really think about is do you trust this relationship enough to deal with the ramifications? So in marriage, if I text your mom something, you know, I know that she has my back. She's not going to turn around and show her friends. She's not going to turn around, put it out on social media. But I would say to, you know, people dating,

if this relationship goes bad, you might think, hey, we're heading towards marriage, but, you know, that can change. Are you willing to deal with the ramifications of them turning around, being ticked off at you, and then putting your words that are out there for, you know, forever if people want to dig enough to use it against you. Yeah. It doesn't make sense to me. There's no sense in it. I would rather say, you know, text, hey, I really need to talk to you than meet and talk

face to face. And I know that sounds a little pessimistic, but again, how many times we hear someone texting or even sexting, if people understand what I mean by that, sending things that are sexually, they have sexual content or even pictures that have used, been used against them. I just don't, that is not a good mode, in my opinion. And I'll fight tooth and nail, any other, you know, therapist for her intimacy. Yeah. Yeah.

It's really interesting. I once was, I once heard this story. Well, let's just say it that way, that this, this young man was texting. a girl that was she wasn't exactly sure if he was interested. So they obviously, they weren't dating. So I guess that kind of relates to this question, but they weren't dating. And he, he started just sharing kind of deep stuff with her. She wasn't really sure what to do with it. And she really got freaked out when he started talking about how he had been kind of drinking a good bit that night. And so she, she was wondering, oh my gosh, is he drunk texting me or is he just like,

I don't know, kind of tipsy texting me. Like he's sharing a lot. And she actually ended up telling him, hey, you need to stop texting me. I don't think you're sharing things. Like, I don't think you actually intend to share these things with me. Or even if you do, I don't know that you're in the right frame of mind to make that decision right now. And I really am not comfortable with what's being talked about,

which I think is actually a really healthy way of handling that situation on her part. but it's something that is kind of interesting how that that it's just so easy like you said it's kind of there's kind of this comfortability I think you mentioned this there's kind of this comfortability in texting someone where it's not as high stakes you're just kind of feeling putting some feelers out there to see if there's going to be any like give and take in there it kind of makes you feel a little good to hear from someone you're interested in. And so I think it can, it can become dangerous because it feels intimate because you like the person. And so you do start sharing some things that maybe you shouldn't, both for the reasons that you're talking about,

like it could be just used against you, or because maybe you're kind of, you're sharing too much. I guess we could take it back to the RAM model because we were talking about that previously. You're kind of giving them more trust than you actually know about them. And even though trust is earlier on in that model, you kind of have to have some more reliance and commitment to someone before you continue to give that trust. Well, it's also built off of what you know. And that's that first one. And no isn't just this real quick and now I can trust. know is I not only know it, but over time it's consistent, so I know it to be consistent.

And then I also have to verify it so I know it to be true. And I also know that it's not something that they easily discard. So this is a process in this getting to know in order to build a trust that I'm now willing to show you the deeper part of my life. Yeah. And, you know, again, even in marriage, I have seen couples use texting against their spouse, which to me is the ultimate betrayal. And I think it's horrific and it's something that's hard to rebuild because that's someone that you're supposed to be able to share, you know, your deepest part. But again, I still don't think that that's, even in marriage is the healthiest, productive way to deal with that.

Interesting. So like even if you have a solid relationship outside of. outside of this texting, it's not meant to be your main mode of communication. That's a really interesting thought. Okay, and I'm going to be very pessimistic here. I'm sorry, I know you need to take a break here, but very pessimistic and just take this for what it's worth. I tell all of my therapists anything and everything that you say can and will be held against you in a court of law. Now, what I'm trying to tell them is we have to think about what we say. what we text, what we write, because there might be that day where you're in the court of law

and they ask you, did you write this? Did you? And you're like, yeah, you know. So anyway, sorry. Yeah, no, I mean, it is very pessimistic. But I think it's also, you know, not something uncommon to see in our day and age. We often see. I mean, we see this with our political figures who just totally get raked over the coals for things that maybe they never actually did, but sometimes they did and it was a moment of immaturity and impetuous stupidity. Stupidity. So this is a reminder that you're listening to Wherefore Arthel Romeo where we are discussing

the topic of intimacy and communication and particularly the issue of texting and what that looks like. I'm your host, Emily Shuddy, and my co-host is licensed marriage therapist. Greg Shuddy here on Radio Free Hillsdale, One on on. 1.7 FM. You know those moments where you think you have the exact best way to do or say something, and then it comes out of your mouth? Yeah, welcome to, well, that sounded better in my head.

A listener sent me this note about her rather unfortunate yet relatable and comedic better in my head moment. Bad timing Betty shares, I started a serious long-term relationship with my current boyfriend, who my parents didn't know at the time, and I did not tell my parents until three months. months in. The way I told them was both he and I wrote letters declaring our undying love for each other and our plans to get married. I read my parents the letter two seconds after they'd arrived

back from a long plane ride and needless to say the conversation was about two and a half hours long and it caused literally a year and a half of tension, anxiety, and miscommunication between everyone involved in its wake. I probably could have admitted the word marriage and left it at we're dating just FYI. What are your thoughts on that, Greg? I don't think there's much I can say that convince people the other way. It's yeah. I'm careful of your words. So unfortunate.

Especially with parents. I mean, we take everything to heart. So especially we want to protect our kids. Yeah. Now, I always love the story of, you know, the guy who said all these horrible things that happened and the parents are all upset. And he's like, no, actually, that's not the truth. I just failed my chemistry test.

And I'm like, oh, okay. So we padded. The worse. Making them feel better about his... This person did not pad anything there. They just made it worse. Yeah, which, you know, is sometimes happens. Sometimes we just make those mistakes.

So next time, I guess we can all learn from the mistakes of bad timing, Betty, and know that we should be a little bit more considerate of timing and communication. It's just remembering. All of us, if I look back on my youth band, some of the stupid things that I did, you know, we all make bad choices. The question is, is do we learn from them or not? And hopefully, Betty, learn from that. And she's not going to do it again. As someone who is supremely bad with timing, I totally relate.

So, yeah, so no judgment here. I totally understand that we are constantly making mistakes. But I also, I think it's interesting just the point that this person was making about just some of the things that they told their parents about just how they were declaring their undying love for each other and had already decided to get married. And I think that kind of interesting considering our conversation about intimacy. Well, and, you know, from a parent's point of view, if, I mean, one who's invested in her kids. is, you know, sometimes you listen to that and you're just like, oh, just wait. Just wait and see. Because, you know, I think that's one of the sad things is a lot of our youth today think

that the older generation is just stupid or they don't understand or they're not up to the times. But your relationships are relationships. You just, you know, whether you're using a phone or a cell phone or a text or there's still these difficulties that come with it. And so when my kids come and I'm pledging my undying love to this person I just met a week ago. You're just thinking, okay, just give a time. It'll, you know, but the thing that you hope for is that you're not, you're throwing yourself so much into it that now you're making really dumb mistakes. Like they really do love me and this is heading towards marriage versus hold on.

You know, you got to give this some time. Mm-hmm. And then you run into the issue. of what we were talking about, about sharing too much. And you don't really know the person very well. And then you start relying on them too much and committing too much. And then your intimacy levels go way up. And then you don't really know very much about the person.

And so your trust is not really grounded. Yeah, I think we've got to remind ourselves is that, and this isn't just trying to, again, remember, I was young once. And I think the thing that we forget is that God put hormones in us for a reason and dopamine to really try and push us out of that comfort zone of home and really enter into relationships and enter into very difficult new situations. The problem is, is sometimes that dopamine leads us or without boundaries leads us to doing things that we shouldn't to jumping too quickly to me and your mom's case to saying I love you

before the other person really had time to process that and so I think we got to remember that intimacy you know there's a level that you should have when it comes to a friendship but that's it stops at a certain point but when you're moving towards an intimacy with someone that you want to spend the rest of your life, what you're talking about is I'm trying to figure out if I can trust you, if I can be vulnerable to you and you will not only reciprocate that back, so it's not one-sided, but that you will also honor that. And you, even when you see the depths of my brokenness, that you still have built a love, which takes time. that you say, yes, I do want to enter into a marriage, even knowing the difficulties and your weaknesses,

because I want to, together with you, help each other become a better person. And so I think you just have to, it just takes time and you just have to do it little by little. And when you go too quickly, like I said, too quickly and you don't, and you take it too lightly, you just open yourself up for a deeper sense of hurt. Yeah. And it doesn't mean that it's irreparable. It's just, you know, you can minimize that if you think about it that way. Yeah.

You know, it's really interesting because I think when you spend so much time sharing your heart with someone, you do have to be really careful and intentional off of what you were saying because you're, you're considering spending the rest of your life with this person, but also you don't know if this is the person. So maybe you're, because our emotions are given to us for a reason. They're good. Like, it's okay to have a crush on someone. It's okay to really love someone, really want to share your heart with somebody. That's a beautiful thing. And that's something that is built into our, our very psyche, into our very bodies. And that's good. But at the same time, you can't give your heart to everyone without some consequences? Well, and I think we're led into a false sense

of what this means in a world where you value, you know, what I shouldn't say value yourself, or you think better of yourself if you have more friends that like you, if you have more people that follow you on something. You know, all of these things, these influencers, ultimately all it takes is a change and people will betray you. But it's, we should be more thinking about if you have one or two really good friends that have your back in the hard times and cry with you in those hard times and they rejoice with you in the joyful times, that's a treasure. But I think people feel like I should have many.

And that one person you want to spend the rest of your life with, you ultimately want them to be that treasure that's that's going to you know guard your heart and that's that is the damaging part of divorce today and that's why i love doing what i do because i know the value of even through mistakes rebuilding in your marriage versus just jumping from one relationship to the next and to the next yeah this is just a reminder that you're listening to wherefore arthur Arthel Romeo, where we are talking about the topic of intimacy. I'm your host, Emily Shody, and my co-host is licensed marriage therapist. Greg Shody here on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM.

Yeah, so I think it's just, I really love what you're saying about this, about just the importance of that good, those good relationships and why you have this heart for helping these relationships through. marriage therapy, I do have a question. It kind of relates back to something we talked about a little earlier about the girl feeling like she's maybe telling a lot of information to the guy, but not feeling like she's getting as much back from him. So like that element of give and take you know, so that you're actually both inputting into the relationship. And I have, I've talked to some people who have mentioned there, that they think that maybe

there's this, maybe a good thing when guys are more guarded, like that tends to be maybe a more, a more manly trait. I'm not sure how I think about this. I think it can be sometimes beneficial when you don't have guys who are, you over the emotional, but at what point do you have this like emotionally inept man versus a man who, you know, weeps at the drop of the hat? I don't know, maybe those aren't really good, good extremes, but I'm trying to ask basically like, what is that, what are we kind of looking for as women? What is okay? Well, that's a great question. And I think,

you know a couple things that I would play out in this and I'm sure I'm going to offend somebody in this is that you know a lot of kids in college especially in high school not so much in college but especially in high school we don't know what it means to truly be a man we're trying to figure it out you know people that I know what a man is well you know every day I some days even now I'm learning more about malness and manhood and what that means and so yeah I think it's more about this virtues are we learning these virtues of patience and not just giving everything about ourselves quickly and you know that that could be one thing but it's also sometimes you what I'm finding is that it could be something

that is a difficulty or something that's going to be a challenge in that relationship. And what I mean by that is there are some guys, and this goes both ways. This is sometimes women, sometimes men, who don't like to share. They don't like to talk a lot. And they will do some in dating because they're really trying to win the person over. but sometimes those patterns will continue on into marriage unless they, you know, learn to deal with it. And what I mean by that is I've seen many times in therapy where there's the woman who wants to talk a lot because women tend to process things. But I've also seen guys that just don't want to talk.

And they simply are happy if they can just be home and their wife is happy and they've got food on them. the table. And literally, I've heard guys tell me that. If I just had that, I'd be a happy man, but then it has to be complicated because you keep telling me all these problems. And it's like, hold on. This is part of the relationship. And so I think that's part of what you're trying to figure out is, is this a guy who's really honoring your words and not just jumping to? Or is this someone that's uncomfortable with talking? And this is going to be a pattern for them. And again, I want to refer back to something that I said before. It's not finding the perfect person.

It's finding the person who's trying to become better. So just because I'm not a talker doesn't mean that I can't learn to share in my marriage in such a way that it's going to be healthy and helpful. Okay. So there is that element of you do need to become, you know, good at that communication that we're talking about. that's important to being, I guess, emotionally adept so that you can, because as a woman, I can say this, we tend to be very emotional creatures. And that's actually really good. And it ends up being really important to when we have kids, because kids tend to be irrational. And so because we have this understanding of what it's like to be irrational, we can understand our kids in a way that

maybe men struggle with a little bit more. I'm not trying to paint this as like universal. Yeah, yeah, I got you. But it tends to happen that way. But it's, you know, as women, we want to be understood when we are struggling or just comforted or whatever the case may be. But then also we do want the guy to share. But then at what point is there too much, like too much.

Is there a point of much like a guy being too willing to share his emotions is a bit concerning? Well, yeah. So a couple things I would say is one is if someone's spilling their guts too quickly, telling you everything about themselves in detail and intimate stuff. And you're like, hold on, I've just known you for a short time here. Because the question is, is that an indicator of someone who lacks boundaries that, you know, they just they'll spill their guts to everybody and anybody because that's that can have some ramifications that are difficult um but you do want someone that's you know able to get in touch with

their emotional needs and this is something that guys fall short in some some guys are good at it some guys are bad both ways. They, they're too emotional and it's not good. But I think what you see is a lot of these guys who just feel like, like I said, if I have a good meal and you're not mad at me, I'm okay. But ultimately, these same guys in therapy will sit there and tell me, you know, I can't stand this and she does this to me and I don't like that. And I'm just, and so trying to help them understand, well, what's the emotional need that you have? Well, like, I, like, Like I said, if she just does, no, no, what is the emotional need you have? And sometimes I think guys either don't take the time or afraid to or don't even understand how to identify that, meaning that when I even throw out some to them, they'll be like, oh, yeah, like, I'll say to a guy, yeah, but do you want to feel respected by them?

Well, yeah, okay, that's an emotional need. Do you want them to trust you with this? well yeah that's an emotional need oh okay so you know and when guys will be like you know i'm sick of being treated like a child so what you're saying is you want to feel respected you want to feel honored you want to feel like her number one well these are all you know they have their roots in the emotional need and i think again if we're if you have one of the other that's unwilling to explore that without it becoming a fight or without withdrawing, that's healthy. And carried in the marriage, that becomes the thing that can create a problem because then we start

avoiding building the emotional relationship and we spend more time building the functional relationship. And this often happens in marriage, taking care of the kids, taking care of the house, going to work, you know, blah, blah, blah. You're not, and then that becomes where we compare. I've done this many chores. You haven't done that many chores. So I think I'm taking this really big. But, I mean, you've got to think big time here, not just, oh, he's so nice right now and he's sharing.

Okay. But when I shared, did he respect it? Did he offer something back? Did he vomit all of his personals to me? Okay. What's this mean? So it really seems like it has to do again with what we've been talking about with that progression of the relationship and how, you know, in in those dating years or before the dating years and into the dating years, you really have that time that you need to spend getting to know and moving slowly. And so maybe being overly emotional could be a little damaging if you're sharing.

too much. I think actually that that is exactly the same on the woman's side because it's so funny. There are songs that talk about like wearing your heart on your sleeve, but I actually think that's really not a good thing to wear your heart on your sleeve because I think that just kind of indicates that you show everything about yourself. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting that, but that's how I take that to mean. And so I think that that's also dangerous for women because in the same way, we're giving too much in those early stages. So, you know, wearing your heart on your sleeve in a marriage is healthy.

But wearing your heart on your sleeve early on in dating is maybe not. Well, and let me throw a caveat in there because, again, this is a huge topic. and this is the only caveat that, you know, it probably needs a lot more explanation. But even in marriage, there is something to the fact of women being women, the true feminine genius that's there that's from God. And the same thing from men. We need to be men. And there's a lot that goes with that.

And I know I think it was John Gray who wrote, Men are from Mars, women are from Venus, even talked about the failed experiment where women wanted their husbands to share like other girls shared with them. And what he found was it was an utter disaster because then the women were finally like, oh my gosh, this is too much. I can't take all that my husband's now telling me because women want men to be strong in some ways, but not an island in themselves that they can't figure out and they can't know anything about. That's actually so interesting. I was just having a conversation the other day with a friend who mentioned how she believes in a relationship they when you're especially like when particularly when you're married you need to have this

element of when your husband is struggling with something letting him figure it out and if he needs something like let him come to you but not force him to share something with you that he knows he needs to address on his own because there are sometimes things that, like, he needs you to respect that space and, like, allow him to lead in that way. I just thought it was really interesting that she mentioned this because I think there is, kind of like you said, these guys, these men, one of their emotional needs is respect. And so in a sense, in a marriage, the wife can respect the man. by not necessarily sharing his struggle in that moment because she can't necessarily.

Well, and now let's take it from the other side because that's a great point for women. But my point to men is you can't give your spouse nothing because if you come home and you've had a hard day and you're just trying to protect them, you tell them nothing. Guess what? they fill in the blank when you're yelling at the kids and yelling at the dog. It's better for you to come home and say, I've had a crappy day. I just need some time to unwind. I'm not mad at you. And every time I say that to a couple, the wife's like, yeah, if I just got that much, I'd be okay.

So it's a both and. Yeah, yeah. That's really interesting. Just a reminder that you're listening to Wherefore Art Thel Romeo, where we are discussing intimacy, communications, relationships, really all of the above. I'm your host, Emily Shuddy, and my co-host is licensed to marriage therapist. Greg Shuddy here on Radio Free Hillsdale, 101.7 FM. Okay, Greg, do you have any other thoughts?

Well, I always have a lot of thought. The question is, what do you want to hear? No, I'm just kidding. So, yeah, in this whole thing, let's get back to, I know we've been kind of going into the whole marriage realm, but even when we're talking about couples dating or just, you know, building those connections with others, especially on the college campus, I think you actually took one of our high school programs called Go for the Gold. And in that, one of the things that we talk about is boundary rings. Ah, yes. Or as your mom calls them, the hula hoops. You know, don't enter into this

Hulu hoop. This is my Hulu Hoop and that is your Hulu Hoop. And I think, you know, when we talk about this, you start to, it's good to kind of conceptualize. There are those people that you led into the closest ring and those that are just kind of the next ring out to those who are really far out there that you just, you've met a couple times and you would say hi to them, but you're not going to give too much to. And the only one, you know, that really should be in that closest one. Some people would say that you should be the only one in the closest one. Now, again, we can argue that.

And then we can also talk about how God is part of that, but I think he encompasses everything. Yeah. But outside of that, those that are closest to you are the ones that you give the most to, that you give the most intimacy to. and you know i think when we hear intimacy we think of marriage we think of sex and it's not it's not just those i mean even to some of my best friends there's an intimacy there it's a i'm willing to share a deep part with you that i'm not going to share with anybody else because i trust you with it because i know you will honor it and even if things go awry i know i know that you'll be there to, I don't know, cry with me, to walk through it with me.

And I think that that's, you have to be looking at that. How, what does it take for someone to earn that next step into the next? And what it takes for someone to actually have to be pushed out of that into a further one because you've, you've clearly shown me after all this time that I thought I knew you. that and so that's part of this process of you know how how intimate should I be in this relationship well how quickly do you feel like they can come right into yours and and I think that that's where people have to be careful because John Van App again I love I love his stuff he says you don't even start to see even start to see habits not all of

but some habits and patterns in someone that you know until at least three months and really start to around six months. So when I hear people say, we got engaged after three months, I'm thinking, good luck to you, because you got a lot to work out in marriage versus no, this is the time. That's why I say, I think you asked me this at one time, how long should we date? I think a year is good before even really thinking about. Now, some people will say, well, what if I'm older? What if I'm, okay, there's always those nuances.

But I just feel like giving that time to see the patterns, to see if those patterns are things that I can live with, or if those are patterns that I'm like, but don't go into it with, those are patterns I'm going to change. My love will change. No, it won't. Yeah. Okay, so you mentioned the hula hoops, the relationship circle.

And also you mentioned that there's more to intimacy than just marriage and sex. And so could you maybe give us, we talked a lot about the emotional side of this topic of intimacy. Could you give us maybe a couple examples of what's appropriate physical intimacy? outside of marriage? Yeah, sure. You know, I think that there's always going to be this natural tendency to move towards the physical. And that is there,

that something God has designed into our relationship is to eventually move to that, you know, kind of the basic to procreation and to that, sexual bonding but I think again it all should be based off of the level of commitment that we've have in this relationship but it also has to be limited to you know what are those those that intimacy that physicalness that just keeps us driving deeper and and being more prone to or breaks down our way It feeds into our weakness to get in, meaning that, you know, if you start touching in a way that's more sexual, it's going to excite something in the brain.

It's going to excite something in the body, and it's going to draw you to go, okay, well, at least I will. At least I will. Versus, you know, going into a relationship, again, like we teach in the go for the gold, is where do you draw the line in that physical touch? is it that we kiss and that's it we're not going to deep kiss we're not going to touch you know um any certain you know above the ways below the ways we're not going to we're not going to be in a room by ourselves you know these things that we have to just be careful because there's this natural tendency and you just put yourself at risk yeah so for me to say it has to be stopped at kissing versus I don't know I don't know the whole gamut of what we use in the go for the gold but that's what I'm trying to say is until you've got that committed relationship and I'm not just talking engaged but really married because I've even seen engaged couples that have broken off their marriage because it was really tested in that time yeah you know and when you enter into that sexual union it really

starts to put you at risk of really complicating now and the future. Yeah. Versus really helping. And you don't want your relationship to be based off of the physical. Yeah. But that makes sense because too many people, it's based off of the physical. And so that has ramifications also. There's a bonding that's hard to break.

Yeah, which I guess in a sense, this all takes us back to, the communication aspect and how important it is to communicate, you know, how how your physical connections, how, like, your physical touch is impacting you and whether it's, you know, pulling or pushing you towards places that you shouldn't maybe go just yet. So, yeah, that element of like really being honest with, with your significant other about how that impacts you. That's really important. Or just the last I would say is whether you like it or not, your brain is going to release neurochemicals and cause a bond whether you want it or not. So keep that in mind.

Yeah. Yeah. The body is very powerful. It has very powerful emotions and feelings and chemicals that get released all the time. So it's really important to be aware of that. So I know that there's so much more to talk about regarding this subject. So keep an ear out for a continuation of this conversation. in the future. I just want to remind you that relationships are a process and it takes time and

effort. We just want to help you balance your head and your heart. This is your friendly reminder to be, to not be discouraged because if you haven't found you Romeo or Juliet, learn a new song on the guitar. If you have a question that you would like us to address, please email them to E-Shoudi, S-H-H-U-T-T-E at Hillsdale.edu, and we will discuss them in future shows. That's all for Wherefore Art Thel Romeo? I'm Emily Shodi. And I'm Greg Shuddy on Radio Freehillsdale 101.7.