WRFH/Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM - Wherefore Art Thou, Romeo?: Purity Culture Revisited

Episode Date: November 12, 2025

Emily and Greg are back and so is Adriana Azarian to continue their conversation on the effects and extremes of purity culture. With the depth and breadth of the topic, these three realize they will need to continue the conversation even after all they cover here. 

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You're listening to Where For Art Thou, Romeo, the show that discusses how to navigate romantic relationships and how to achieve a mean between the extremes of hookup culture and over-discerned dating. Here's your host, Emily Shudy. Welcome to Where For Art Thel Romeo, the show where we talk about how to follow your heart without losing your mind. My name is Emily Shottie, and my co-host is licensed marriage therapist and also my dad, Greg Shuddy. We're all navigating relationships every day. But sometimes the most intimate are also the most challenging. Our goal is to help you get out of your own head when it comes to your or even your friends' relationship, questions, and concerns. Today, back in the studio, we have Adriana Azarian to join us for another episode of Wherefore Art Tho Romeo.

I'm so glad to be back. This was so much fun last time. So we have so much more to talk about this time. Yes, yes. I was warned there's even deeper, deeper questions. So last week wasn't. you know, intense enough for you this week, you know, we're just going to go for it a little bit more. I think it's important for me to caveat at the very beginning.

I think sometimes we hope that there's the perfect answer and sometimes we just have to wrestle with ideas. And I think sometimes it's important for people to understand that these are not just a once and done. You hear something from me and that's gospel. These are some of these questions, you know, I even see in therapy that I'm constantly wrestling with people. on, but you've got to take each situation as they come. So, last time, we were discussing the issues of infidelity, as well as pornography and purity culture. So we had some pretty deep topics here, and we wanted to dive a little bit more into that. I think particularly the topic of purity culture. So take us away, Adriana, with what your questions were, our thoughts were

on this. Yes. So last time I was asking about if there is a healthy middle ground, between purity culture and hookup culture because we all know hookup culture we've all you know heard people's experiences of how toxic and damaging that is to you know like what mr shouldy said to you know know know someone that intimately then break it off and then do that over and over again but then in purity culture you have this idea of you know it's very well intentioned it's you know you want to save sex for marriage but in doing so it almost makes sex very taboo or any kind of sexual attraction very shameful and my observation is from talking to women that that seems to impact their relationships and their marriages having been told like,

you know, don't think about it, don't talk about it, you know, it's bad, and then having to turn that off as soon as they get married. And so my question was basically, you know, what is the healthy approach to that? Like, what are some good resources for people to kind of find out what is the truly Christian way to handle matters of sexuality? Maybe I touched on it a little bit last time is that you're right. It's that middle ground on it where, you know, I think sometimes we can look at it as this dirty thing, this thing that's a necessary evil or whatever. That's not the way God designed it. And I think that that's so important to say is that it's a beautiful gift that we've been given by God. In fact, his first commandment to us is be fruitful and multiply. And, you know,

he made it enjoyable for a reason. The problem is, it's just like anything good, we find a way to destroy it. And I think it's without getting overly religious here, you know, that's what Satan wants to do. He wants to destroy the things that are good. And so, you know, he takes us to both sides. One is where, hey, anything goes. If it feels good, it's right. Someone used this analogy, and I love it, is sex outside of a committed, and when I mean committed, I'm talking married, where we've, you know, taken vows and we've promised to one each other this lifetime together. it's like taking a fire, you know, fire in a fireplace is warm. It's beautiful. It gives warmth and life. It's great. But if you take that same fire and you put it in the middle of the living room, it's still warm. It's still nice to look at, but now it's destructive because it doesn't have anything to bind it and to direct it towards that good of having children and bonding with one another. But I think you're right is that in our purity culture, We're fighting so hard against the other side that I think we take it too far and we don't see

the beauty of the sexual act. And then pornography comes along and really just makes it this shameless thing. And so how do we recover from that? And I've seen it in therapy where they come into therapy and they haven't had sexual relations in over a year or more because of that fear, because of that struggle. Kind of touching, though, upon that idea of, like, you've talked to, you know, couples who've gone a year or two without having that sexual aspect of the relationship. I mean, what advice would you give for couples who are maybe dating or discerning marriage? Because it seems like this purity culture idea is, like, you can't even kiss or, like,

hold hands with your boyfriend. Don't even make eye contact. Yeah. And, you know, I think there maybe could be some real concerns with, like, going too far when it comes to physical, showing physical affection in a dating relationship. but what advice would you give basically in navigating physical boundaries like in preparing for marriage? It's funny that you ask that because we teach a course here called Go for the Gold.

And one of the, I don't think we do it anymore, but one of the activities that we would do is we would have every step of kind of touch in a relationship, starting with holding hands. It might even be even something before that, but it would, you know, progress from there to hugging to touching on the face to you know and touching on the back and then all the way up to you know touching underclothes to sex and it kind of goes this whole gamut and we would go into a class and we would talk about you know when you have a relationship before that marriage before that commitment you have to put boundaries in of where's the stopping point where is it that it starts to go be on and starts into that progression into what is natural for man and woman. There's this

natural drawing to one another. And when you are falling in love with another person, there is this natural desire and God built it into us to move towards that sexual union. So a couple of things that can play against that is having too much time together, meaning that we're dating for seven years, We're dating for five years. We're engaged for two years. But a lot of people are like, well, I'm not ready to get married. Well, the question is then how deep should you be going in this relationship? Because there's the natural progression towards that.

But if you're not ready to get married now, it's going to be important to put those boundaries in. This is the stopping point. And we don't go beyond that. But that's a fine balance, especially when you've been dating someone for a long, time. I think that's something that we see in college too, because even if it's not necessarily that you're dating all four years, maybe you are, but you're also just with each other kind of 24-7, not exactly 24-7, but like all the time. Yeah, we're in a very close environment all the time because we all live on the same campus. It's, we have easy access to each other.

We can study together all the time. We run into each other in the dining hall. You know, there's just kind of, it is, it is an environment where being together so closely is very much, it lends itself to being together a lot more frequently. And so I think that it can kind of accelerate this process of getting close. Yeah. When you talk about setting boundaries, though, do you think that that has to be like, that it's something that maybe is based on the couple, or do you think there really is just a hard line of like couples should not go beyond

this point when they're not married yet because I think that sometimes people can get people can get very legalistic about it and I think it is a very nuanced thing so I'm curious to know well you're right you have to know yourself because there are some people that can handle a little bit more than others but there are definitely these areas where you go beyond what is um I don't want to say that that's drawing you not into the further you know when you're starting to touch people and places that are more intimate that's not that's not something where it's like okay we'll go to that well that's going to create a difficulty going into someone's room by yourself not a good idea you know there's those things that we put ourselves at risk when we when we do that so yeah there

are definitely kind of the hard lines of where i would say do not go beyond this but i think the other thing is that it's okay um to hold hands it's okay to hug It's okay to even kiss. But again, then it starts to sometimes we progress into the deeper kissing. And then, you know, so that's, you got to know yourself. And I would also recommend that you have a mentor as you go through this. So me and my wife, we had a priest that we talked to as we went through this. And he really guided us on that.

And so that gave us some set points to really think. about in our own relationship, and he knew who we were in our own struggles. So that really helped him in guiding us. So that's something else I would highly recommend if you don't have family that can guide you. Is there someone else that can be a part of that? This is a reminder that you're listening to Wherefore Arthel Romeo, where we are discussing the issue of boundaries and relationship. I'm your host, Emily Shodi, and my co-host is licensed marriage therapist Greg Shuddy. And we also have Adriana Azarian here on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. Okay, I have a question for you guys. Okay. So you said that a lot of times when someone's

dating, they're spending a lot of time with each other. And sometimes they're maybe exclusive to the point of not spending time with friends, which I don't think is necessarily good. But why do you think people do that where they, they're desperate to spend more and more time with one another? Is it out of fear? Is it out of enjoyment? Is it something else? But your thought? Well, that's a really good question. Neither of us have dated on campus. That's part of the problem for me. How qualified we are to answer.

I guess what I've seen is sometimes that is most common freshman or sophomore year of college because you're really excited. It's your first time maybe being in a relationship. I know that, I mean, my own personal experience was that I wasn't allowed to date in high school. and so I came to college and I was like, oh my gosh, this is so exciting. I could do this. It's like I could do this, even if I don't do this. And so there is some excitement about that. And so then it's maybe you're like first big romance. And so it's really, really very exciting to spend a lot of time with that person because they make you feel good. They affirm you in some way that you were desiring. I think maybe there could be some unhealthy tendencies with that. There's someone

that you really rely on. And so maybe if you don't yet have a set group of girlfriends or guy friends as an individual, then they become kind of that person that you're able to really connect with and talk about your struggles with and talk about college life. And there's like that safety in that relationship when you don't know anybody else. Yeah, I agree. I think it is a maturity thing. So when I think about my friends who are freshmen and sophomores and they're, you know, it's kind of like what your dad was saying. They're very much like always together kind of obsessive, very infatuated. And this is not speaking broadly. I mean, it's not speaking specifically. It's speaking very broadly. But I mean, I look at my like our friends who are in relationships. Like they don't need to spend. I think because they're just more secure in themselves and secure in their relationships. And I just tend to notice that there's a really big maturity jump. Not just regarding romantic relationships, but just overall between like freshman, sophomore and junior or senior. I don't really know what that is, but I think that people tend to get more settled into themselves and just more secure about, you know, planning for the future and not so much, like, being in the moment of, yes, I can finally be under my parents, you know, free from my parents watch and whatnot.

Yeah. I also do think I've definitely seen that my female friends who got into relationships in their freshman or sophomore year and hadn't developed relationships with other women, have had a lot harder of a time developing those relationships now. Maybe the relationship didn't work out. Like their romantic relationship ended freshman, sophomore year. And so now they are just like suddenly realizing, oh, I don't really have a community, which I think is a very tough, tough thing to realize because it's hard. It's harder, I think, to build that community when you didn't do any of the groundwork freshman

or sophomore year. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's important that people also deal. with their insecurities because a lot of times I think we have a difficulty in balancing relationships because there's this insecurity of am I spending enough time with this person am I spending enough time with my friends and then it can be become more of what I even plan to deal with and so sometimes we have these expectations out of fear or out of insecurity yeah I

definitely I actually spoke with a friend a guy friend about this fun fact I it was actually a really good conversation that I don't usually have in mixed groups. But it was neat to talk to him about this because he was expressing how sometimes when you get in a relationship, especially in college, it can feel like you suddenly become this husband figure to the woman because she almost very quickly begins emotionally relying on you in a way that maybe you weren't prepared for. And I thought that was really interesting to hear because I expressed to him, I think it was really, you know, a blessing from God that I haven't been, I wasn't in a relationship as of, as of yet, just because God helped me see, like, my tendency would have been to go to that

person when I was stressed or struggling, as opposed to seeking counsel through female mentors, through adults in my life, through him, through God, like going to God. And so I could see how it would be really easy for women to kind of put their mental and emotional reliance in a relationship if they don't have a confidence in who they are. Yeah, I almost feel like there should be more guidance on campuses for how to navigate relationships because and just help individuals in what they're dealing with because I think so often we're trying to figure it out on our own. I remember me and your mom, again, luckily we had that priest who was guiding us because there's so many times that you play.

this stuff out in your head. And it's just like, well, we need to take a break now. Well, no, you're too far away. Now we need to get serious again. And just like that stopping, starting and, oh, my gosh, what's going to happen here? Because you, like, rushed into it too fast. And suddenly you're like, well, I wasn't ready for that. I think a lot of that also comes from the fact that we are maturing much later than we used to, like psychologically and emotionally. I think I've heard that like an 18 year old is at the same maturity level as a 15 year old was, you know, years ago. So I think that when people are coming to college, you know, maybe it was at one point like a good time for people to actually start dating. But I kind of look around, like knowing myself as a freshman and as a

sophomore, like I was not ready to be dating at that time. And I think that, yeah, it comes down to having a lot of guidance. And I think that at those ages, people really need someone, even if it's just an older friend to kind of take them under their wing and kind of make up for the fact that we just aren't where we really should be anymore at 18, 19 years old. And again, this is speaking from my own experience, too. I met with a friend for coffee yesterday, and we were just bemoaning some of the social issues we've been seeing around campus, i.e., the fact that there's a lot of, maybe pressure is not the right word, but a lot of encouragement from Christian conservative communities to get married young and have lots and lots and lots of babies. And those are great things. Those are all really great things.

But I wonder sometimes if, you know, when everything's said and done, if when you're telling a bunch of really, maybe people who aren't ready to get married, to get married. If there's a lot of regret that comes from that, a lot of bad decisions or just, you know, not very well thought out marriages that are now, you know, permanent, can't get out of it, I worry about people who get into relationships maybe prematurely. And I was just wondering what your observations have been, Mr. Shuddy, with regards to, you know, I'm sure you've counseled couples who've gotten married and probably couples who've gotten married maybe in their later 20s or 30s or even probably past that. Have you noticed any benefit to getting married younger or maybe getting married older or maybe there's pros and cons to both sides. But do you really think that we need

to have this pressure to get married young and have thousands of babies? Well, the first red flag to me is the word pressure. It shouldn't be pressure. It should be something that we are moving towards. It should be something that we are preparing for and not this pressure that. And I think some people do that. They put this pressure like times running out for me or if I if I don't do something soon, he's going to leave me or she's going to leave me or and that shows a lack of trust that that God knows who's best for us and that he's, you know, there to help us in that. But we shouldn't feel pressured. So that's the first red flag. But yeah, there's benefits to both. But I think even more so what I would caveat all of that with is whether you're younger and you decide and you know

this is the person you want to get married to or it's later in life because that's just the way circumstances have been. The bigger question is, is, are you getting the help to be prepared for marriage? Because I think that's the bigger issue, is that, yeah, when you're young, you've got some immaturity and you've got to work through that. When you're older, you're kind of set in your ways. And so trying to learn how to live with someone who's going to, you know, make the bed the wrong way or clean the dishes the wrong way. Yeah, that plays out. But too many people, what I hear, They go into marriage saying, I was young, I wasn't prepared. I had no idea what I was getting into.

I have a lot of couples that I really have a lot of admiration for that come into my office and say, we're dating, we're thinking about getting engaged, but we want, you know, some thoughts and some guidance. And I'm always asking them, okay, where are you having difficulties? And then even with some couples, when they come in, and it's been a train rack in their, dating. I stop and go, let's look at where it went wrong. Let's talk about how to pace a healthy relationship. Because I think that's the other thing is so many people are going at it in so many different ways, but nobody's sitting down to say, hold on, stop the pressure, take your time, get to know each other. And here's some things to really think about building prior to marriage

that's going to help you in marriage. We get married and it's like, oh, you know, this is going to be great. We're going to have a happy life together and we're going to have all these kids and da, da, that, da, da, da. And then you get married and you're like, what the hell did I just get into here? You know, and I've heard people say, I thought the first year was supposed to be this bliss and it's not because they weren't, I think, really seeing it for what it could be and the difficulties that might come from it. Well, we are out of time for the day, but again, again. We just got started. I know. We can always continue the conversation as the whole point of this show. No, we need a three-hour show one of these days. I agree. Anyway, we just want to remind you that

relationships are a process. They take time and effort, and we just want to help you balance your head and your heart. This is your friendly reminder to not be discouraged, because if you haven't found you Romeo or Juliet, learn how to make pasta from scratch. If you have questions that you would like us to address, please email them to E-S-E-S-C-H-T-T-E at Hillsdale.edu, and we will discuss them in future shows. Please check us out on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows to catch anything you have missed or want to hear again.

You can follow us on Instagram at Romeo underscore Romeo 2003 or check out our website, whereforeart thou Romeo. That's all for whereforeart thou Romeo. I'm Emily Schoey. And I'm Greg Schoey. And I'm Adriana Azarian on Radio Free Hillsdale, 101.7 FM.