WRFH/Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM - Wherefore Art Thou Romeo?: Relationship Attachment Model (RAM) and Long-Distance Part 1

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

In this episode, Emily Schutte and Marriage Therapist, Greg Schutte discuss the RAM board or the Relationship attachment model as a means of explaining how to pace a healthy relationship.

Batman doesn't do ships, as in me. You complete me. I'm George, George McFly. I'm your density. It is not about the nail. No matter when, no matter who, any man has a chance to sweep anyone off her feet. You're listening to Where For Art Thou, Romeo, the show that discusses how to navigate romantic relationships

and how to achieve a mean between the extremes of hookup culture and over-discerned dating. Here's your host, Emily Shudy. Welcome to Wherefore Art Thou Romeo, the show where we talk about how to follow your heart without losing your mind. My name is Emily Shuddy, and my co-host is licensed marriage therapist and also my dad, Greg Shuddy. We're all navigating relationships every day, but sometimes the most intimate are also the most challenging. Our goal is to help you get out of your own head when it comes to your or even your friend's relationship questions and concerns. So today we're going to, we're going to talk about the RAM board or the relationship attachment model.

And the concept of this model is to learn how to pace a relationship well. So this will be a two-part series in which we will talk about this in this episode. And then in the next episode, we will conclude our discussion of the RAM board. and then continue on into the question, can long-distance relationships succeed? So the RAM board is taught in this class called How to Avoid Falling in Love with the Jerk or Jerkette, which I actually took in my senior year of high school with Greg. And the whole concept is talking about how to have a balanced relationship, how to have good boundaries and pace the relationship well.

Greg, would you walk us through the ram board and how it works? Well, and let me start by just explaining the purpose and the reason behind this. Because one of the things that I see so often when working with couples in therapy is couples come in with so much confusion because relationships can be just so confusing at times, trying to figure each other out, why are you doing this? You said this, but you did this. you know, all of these things that play out. And so for me, untangling that, it helps if you have some groundwork or I use analogies. But I think the beauty of the whole, I'd avoid falling for a

jerk or jerkette, which was written by Dr. John Van App, it's a great read. And so I strongly encourage everybody to consider getting this book and reading through it. But it's also got a program that comes with it. But this RAM model is just a, a really cool and simple way to see what a relationship should be, how it plays out, and how we bond. So I think that that's important kind of as we walk through some of this. So do you remember what the first – well, I'm going to test you here. So let's set up the board here because you've got to see it visually in your head. So imagine an old-time radio where it had the –

the knobs on it for equalizing things. They slide up, they slide down. Now, older people would be like, oh, I know what you're talking about. Younger people would be like, I have no idea if that is. But again, think of it, you know, maybe you've seen one somewhere, or even on computers sometimes you'll see where you can slide up a slider higher on the scale. I'm actually sitting at a radio station right now where I can just like push my levers up and down. There you go.

Yeah, same thing. So we've got five of these. and each one of these are five ways in which we bond. And it is subjective in ways because when you say this is how I feel about my relationship in this area, you slide it up to something that's subjective. But in some ways, it gives it an objective value to someone who's, you know, trying to see where you feel you are in your relationship. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah. I know you've gone through this.

But do you remember, what is the first category? I'll let you go through what the five categories are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the five categories are from left to right. No, trust, rely, commit, and touch. Gotcha. And so the first one is what you tell the guy who's coming on to you quick, right? No.

Not that version. Not that, no. So it's it's it's K&OW, which is knowing or how how much do you know a person. And so often, you know, this is where we have to start in a relationship. And when we talk about balancing the head and the heart, there's this heart part that comes out when we meet someone, right? You see someone. I saw your mom in the back of church and just something about her look just, you know, drew my heart to her. I knew nothing about her, except for that she was going to be late the rest of her life because she walked in light.

But outside of that, I knew nothing about her, but there's that part that draws your heart in, or you hear someone sing, or you see someone act on a stage and your heart goes, oh, man. But you've got to get to know the person to really know, is this someone that I can relate to and get along with? Yeah, I mean, because sometimes you see someone and you're really attractive. to maybe their appearance, but as soon as you start talking to them, you may realize, wow, they, this is not someone I mesh with at all, or wow, they're really not very nice, or they just, I don't know, just have some personality traits that do not mesh with you very well. That's right, right. They're into acid rock, not my thing. Sorry. Sorry if I just offended someone out there. But anyway.

You know, so these things that we get to know about another person, and that's something that we can come back to in a minute here. But the more you get to know someone, the more you bond with them. Or you get to realize, I want nothing to do with this person. And then you decide at that point. But this is how we start to build a friendship. So the more you get to know, the more we start to bond. Okay. Second one is trust.

And trust, you know, everybody would say, yeah, that's extremely important. in a relationship. Well, how do you raise that trust bar on there? Do you remember what trust is built off of? When trust is built off of that knowledge that you have of someone, so the more you know about them and the more you find out that like they, like their actions match up with what they've told you, then that's the more you can trust them. Right. And again, that's one of those things that we got to remember that time is so important in building and maintaining a relationship. Why? Because that time, you start to see those patterns and realize, okay, they told me this about themselves. I've seen them do it once, but then over time I can see that it's a consistent thing

versus I just did this to impress you, but I have no plans of ever doing that again or being that again, whatever it might be. So that time is important to see that played out. And in so, when you know it about them and you know that it's true and you can see it played out over time, that's where trust is built. And that's also why, you know, because it takes so much time, trust can easily be shattered by a lie. And that's something else to keep in mind in relationships is that, you know, where we think, oh, it's just a simple lie. It's just, it was a small lie. But the analogy I often use is whether it's a lie, whether it's a harsh word, imagine spending a thousand hours building a relationship. Okay. It's a lot of time, right? Yeah. Imagine a thousand hours building a Lego

castle, long time, right? So the analogy goes this way. If you come in to my room with this big castle in and you throw a few bricks at my Lego castle, what's going to happen to the castle? It's definitely going to break up a little bit. Yeah, maybe a lot of bit. Maybe shatter pieces. How long is it going to take to rebuild that? Probably a while because you've kind of scattered the pieces around. Mm-hmm.

And that's the other thing for people to remember. remember as not only you're looking to not be with a jerk, but you don't want to be one yourself, is these things that we do can really shatter all the work we put into a relationship. So that's trust. Trust played out is relying, and that's the third one. And relying is, can I rely on you to help me get my needs met? not that you are you never want to expect someone to meet all your needs because they can't but can they help you in getting those needs met whatever they might be emotional not just

not just functional needs so so relying is like when I like I know someone's going to show up for me when I need them to or like they're going to be like have my back that would be an indicator. Other things you can think of? I don't know, maybe if they like consistently are able to be there to listen to you or, oh, that's a good question. I don't know that I've given this much thought. Well, you said a key word there, consistency.

Because if that consistency shows you that it's not just a, I'm just trying to impress you the moment, it's over time they show that desire to listen to you. That could be one of those. I can rely on you to be there to listen to me. Yeah. I just think it's interesting because it's not something that, like I said, have thought a lot about. So it's like, I think it can be challenging to know what we mean for ourselves about what it

means to rely on someone else because we use that word. but it doesn't always relate to specific things. Oh, no, that's a great point because, again, this is the same thing when I'm working with a married couple. And that's what I want people to hear here too is the things you're learning now in relationships are really cool for when you get married someday. It's not just this waste of time until you can get married and everything's great. No, it's this work in progress.

And so, you know, it's that relying on them not just to help you in the functional. And what do I mean by that? Well, they help me around the house. Well, they, you know, they'll do these things for me. Well, they'll, you know, they pick me up when I ask them to pick me up. But it's also, are they reliable in meeting the emotional needs? I need to feel respect. Do they work to try and show you respect?

I need to not have you throw so much sarcasm at me. Are they willing to work on their sarcasm? to try and help you in that area. So that makes sense? Yeah, so like you're saying it could be related to just how you communicate and your communication can be a really important aspect of that reliance. Yeah, yeah. I think that's a hard one for people is to really understand what emotional needs are.

And that's one of those things that I even try to work with. And maybe that's a whole other podcast. But, yeah, it's how do we help each other get those. those needs met. And that's where that trust is so important. So that's reliance. And then again, the more we trust, the more we rely, the deeper the bond. The fourth one is then commitment. How committed am I to this relationship? And, you know, it's one of those things you can't, if you're looking for marriage, you want marriage to be something that's permanent, right? Yeah. Well, how do you practice permanency?

You can't. Correct. You just have to do it. Yeah, but that's scary, though. Think about that. You're hoping this guy is going to go into marriage and he's going to just be committed for life. It's like, well, how do you? So one of the things that, again, it's that time and seeing things played out. And that's where if someone is faithful in the small things, a lot of times that transfers over into the bigger things.

Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of times we say, you know, as you're dating and spending that time without throwing your whole heart in this, see how they are with those little commitments. See how they are with, you know, as we grow in commitment to one another. Yeah, yeah. I think because, like, it can be very. telling if you see a guy or a girl who's dating somebody, but they are always kind of looking around for something else out there. And if they can't even be committed in the relationship that

they're in, that's kind of telling for how it will be in marriage. I think about that a lot. Because, you know, there's like this, this idea that, oh, maybe that guy will leave the girl for me or maybe that girl will leave the guy for me because I'm so amazing. But then if you think about it, if they were to do that, what kind of commitment does that show in their lives? Are they going to just be with you until the next best thing comes around? Are you just the next best thing until there's another next best thing? And so that seems to indicate a level of, like, that I wouldn't trust that person as much if they did that.

That's not really showing a level of commitment in their life. Right, right. And so it's also that showing commitment with consistency versus something that's conditional. And what I mean by that is sometimes people's commitment is based off of a condition. If you really love me, you would, you know, you would do this for me. And I will be more. And if I don't get that, then you start to see them emotionally withdraw. all. So it's not a real true commitment where I'm doing it because I want to love you and do for

your best interest. It's all about me. And that's, does that make sense? Yeah. So I do have a question about that, though, because I wonder, it seems as though sometimes that that seems to be like an expectation. So if you will do this for me, then I will be committed to you, which is something that does, you do have to have expectations like that in a committed relationship, but what kinds of conditions would there be that, that are more of a red flag where, where someone were to say, like, if you were, I guess I know certainly like, if someone were like, if you will have sex with me, then I'll love you forever, you know, that's, that's something that's kind of, you know, especially outside of marriage, that is something that's not really,

a great quality to have. But are there other instances in which you could see that, that, like, you're kind of holding a debt over someone, or you expect something out of them? That would be, like, dangerous to look for? Right. Yeah, that's a great question. And I think it's one of those, is it in your best interest?

Is it because love, true love, has to be, doing for the other for the sake of the other when and so many people get lost because in our day and time we start to you know it's like I'll do this if you do this I'll give you if you give me and it's like no that should be part of our promise especially when we get married is that I promise to do these things that give you this and so that and I hate to run the marriage on this but you know when you just said that I've heard people even say you know, the marriage debt, where it's like, you owe me this. It's like, no, it's not an owing. It's a, I promise to do this. And so we should generously give versus demand. And I think that that's,

that's the critical point is, is what I'm expecting really to help build us up and build you up. You're listening to Wherefore, Arthal Romeo, where we are discussing the RAM model. I'm your host, Emily Shuddy and my co-host is licensed marriage therapist Greg Shuddy here on Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM. So Greg, as we were just talking about with the RAM model, we were talking about commitment and how

in order to commit more to people we need to trust them and rely on them and how, like we were talking about some ways that you could do that. So can you continue on telling us about this model into the fifth level which is touch? Right. So again, that commitment is how much do I give myself to you into this relationship, whether we define it or whether it's, you know, we eventually get to a point of, you know, consummating it in marriage. But anyway, then the fifth one is touch. And touch is this whole, how we bond through that physical connection that we have with one another. There's a book out there called Hooked, and unfortunately I don't have it in front of me to give the author's names from it.

But, and if people try to look this up, be careful because you might get some really bad stuff when you put in Hooked. But it's the book is, it's a red cover with a brain on it. But basically it talks about the biology of that physical connection and what it does in the brain. Because so many people don't realize, or we live in a culture that's. what they call a hookup culture where it's, we want to have friends with benefits, we just want to have sex with whoever and feel like, you know, there's not going to be any ramifications about this. But the reality is, is that the biology speaks differently about that. The biology says you cannot do that. You cannot have that sexual bond without there being a, you know, a neurochemical bond in the brain. And for men, we release what's called vasopressin, and for women, it's oxytocin. So, again, it's that pacing that touch, because even if you intimately hug someone,

and this is intimately, not just a regular hug, for more than 20 seconds, your brain starts to release this neurochemical and creates a bond. But when you have sex with that person, it floods the brain with this neurochemical and creates this strong bond. It's even stronger for women. And so that's kind of the danger here knowing that we need to pace that physical connection because it creates a bond quickly. Yeah.

And so with this whole model now, these are all, these are five ways to bond. The safe zone before marriage is never letting one level go higher than the previous. And these are the levels on the RAM board. on the rim. So should you trust someone more than you know them? No. Why not? Because if you trust them more than you know them, you're going to be gravely disappointed every time they act in a way that doesn't indicate. It's something that you should trust.

I mean, you can't really trust someone that you don't know because... Well, you can. You can. But... But... But it's... not based on anything. Yeah, and so it's just going to lead to a lot of disappointment because they're constantly just going to do things that hurt your trust, even though you continue to do that.

Right. And if you trust them with big things, they can really hurt you. And so that's the goal with this is to minimize the hurt as you're really trying to see if this is a relationship you want to be with long term. So no, you don't trust them more than you know them because trust is built off of what you know about them. Then the next, you know, next one over is should you rely on someone more than you trust and know them? Probably not. I mean, if you don't really, if I don't really know someone or trust them, I'm not going to

rely on them to take care of, I don't know, take care of kids. I'm not going to rely on them to take care of really anything. Yeah. And again, you can get hurt. should you commit your life, hey, let's get married. We've been dating for about a month now, and we're just starting to, you know, well, no, because now I get, you know, the more I build this commitment with not knowing a lot about you, not having that trust, you can get yourself hurt. This concludes part one of our show on the RAM model, and we will continue this in our

next show of Wherefore, Arthel Romeo. And I just want to remind you that relationship are process. It takes time and effort, and we just want to help you balance your head and your heart. This is your friendly reminder that if you haven't found your Romeo or Juliet, it's probably because they haven't found you either, so just be patient. If you have questions that you would like us to address, please email them to eschoti at hillsdale.edu, and we will do our best to discuss them in future shows. That's all for Wherefore Art Thel Romeo. I'm Emily Shuddy. I'm Greg Shuddy. On Radio Free Hillsdale 101. .7 FM.