WRFH/Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM - WRFH Charlie Kirk Interview: CPAC 2020

Episode Date: September 11, 2025

In 2020, WRFH student host Ben Dietderich inteviewed Charlie Kirk on radio row at CPAC.

Hillsdale College is on Radio Row at CPAC 2020, just outside Washington, D.C. Here's Hillsdale College student, Ben Dietrich. Hi, we're here at CPAC with Charlie Kirk today. Charlie, it's good to have you back. Nice to see you again, man. Yeah, I remember you interviewed me last year. We did. We did.

And last year, you know, I think it was very cool because we talked a lot about the books that you had been reading, the parts of the conservative history that maybe people didn't know you really studied more interesting because you didn't go to college. You started Turning Point USA. say. Now we're back here again, and I got to say, on my way out here, two of your ambassadors were sitting next to me on the plane. I had never really met anybody that was in a turning point chapter just because Hillsdale doesn't have one. And it was cool to see what they had to say, and they were very excited at the opportunity that you brought, you provided them with by bringing them here. It's very kind to say. Thank you. It's cool to see. I want to ask you about those types of

students. These were people that, I think, struggle to express their beliefs on college campuses because they just get attacked. And one was, high school students. So on a high school campus is, what are you trying to teach those students? What can turning point provide them? Because conservatism can really mean so much. That's after all what we're debating here at CPAC. Look, I mean, they have to fight. And there's a debate that somehow conservatism should be like the order of Franciscan monks in the hills or something. I mean, we have to get our viewpoint in front of more people. And I mean, that doesn't mean you have to be indecent. That doesn't mean you have to be, you have to sacrifice truth or sacrifice, you know,

a moral order. But by any means, you're not, we can't allow the left to run roughshod over our value system or over what we hold near and dear. And so yeah, I mean, that's something we've done for the last couple of years and we've had success with it. You know, at Turning Point, we're very proud of what we've been able to build and what we've been able to do. And there has been a larger population out there than some people would have estimated, of students that are very fired up. been very active and wanted to get involved. I agree with you that I think there is a real need for a group like turning point out there on college campuses. How do you stay close to that mention of truth that you mentioned?

You know, I mean, when you have people that maybe don't know a whole lot about conservatism, people that, you know, are coming from all different areas and are joining your circle, you run the risk that sometimes your, you know, your car can run astray, your boat can run astray. How do you keep them on a steady course? You have to say anchored. So we believe America is the greatest country in the history of the world. We believe Constitution's greatest political document ever written. And what I love is that the last, you know, I'll talk about truth on college campuses. And we'll start with something as simple as natural rights. And you say, rights come from God, not from government. And they say, oh, God does not exist. There's no such thing as absolute truth. And I say, you believe that absolutely. I mean, you apply your own logic against itself. Then all of a sudden, you're the one that's actually being the hypocrite. So they say, well, there's no such thing as absolute truths. then how on earth could that be true? Yeah. And so there are absolute truths,

and this is something that is widely debated, and I know that there's some presence of secular atheists here. And I think there's plenty of good people that are atheists. However, atheism as a viewpoint, as it bleeds into leftism, becomes very troublesome, because it dismisses something that I think is fundamental to the conservative American worldview, which is a belief in a higher power,

which is a belief in where we actually get our rights from, that we are created, that we're not an accident, that it's just not some sort of splicing of cells in the roll of dice. And so, yeah, if you want to get really theological about it, we could talk about what truth is. But we don't even have to go that far in our college campus advocacy, because just talking about American exceptionalism, that's basically the parameters where we already get opposition from students on campus. Which is crazy. And I think, you know, for our Hillsdale audience out there, I'm happy to go deeper into all of them.

No. Yeah. Yeah, you know, people forget when you go to Hillsdale College just how volatile, just how ugly it gets. on other campuses outside. And Hillsdale is a wonderful school. I want to say that. And I feel blessed to go there. But, you know, at the same time, I think that almost provides the need for a group like yourself. But, you know, at the same time, even with President Trump, I love the guy.

And I support him. I interned for him. I will continue to support him. But there is a fair argument to be made that at some point, you know, there has to be some sort of adequate. You want to be able to convince people outside your circle. If you're too mean to them, do you cross. cross a line. I mean, do you, where do you think that line is? How do you make arguments so that you're

still persuading people outside your views? I can only defend what I do. And at least in my advocacy, I get things thrown at me and screamed at me. And I try to stay at some level of decency. And I attack the ideas, and I try to stand on that. And I think we've won converts over because of it. And over the years, it's been a very interesting thing to see where I think, I think conservatives is a byproduct of Trump as a positive. You're seeing more energy than ever in the movement. And go ahead. Yeah, let's talk about that because, you know, whether people like it or not,

I think you are a big force now in defining the future of conservatism. I mean, you've been to the White House several times, right? You've spoken with President Trump. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Congratulations. I mean, how old are you? 26. 26 years old.

There aren't a lot of 26-year-olds that can say that, like, they are influencing conservativeism to that grade of an extent. But here at CPAC, we're debating basically what this is. And earlier today, we had on people from the Reagan administration, you know, they have different ideas about what conservatism is. They can offer a lot, but Trump has kind of

transformed, you know, the way that conservatives think and address things, the way that we argue, what do you think is the conservatism we're going to need to take on socialism as it is today? It's a great question. And so anti-leftism is great. It's a starter. Trump

is the most successful anti-leftist president in American history. That's not an ideology. That's not a philosophy, and that's not a governing strategy. And so, look, the big debate that's going to be happening, and I see it from both sides, and I fall in the middle of some of these issues, and one side another and one side of the other is common good conservatives and rights-based conservatives. And I'm not the first one, analyze this.

You're going to see this come to a head in a very, very big way. And I just hope it all stays very cordial and all stays very decent. What do you think common-head conservatives are? Common good. Okay, so a common good conservative would be someone that would say, let's put a 25% import tariff on because it will protect these certain industries because we've been exporting our jobs for far too long and that will protect our citizens. Right. I'll just use that as an example. Right.

A common good conservative would say, let's break up Google and Facebook and Amazon. Do you support that? Are the idea of it? It's tough for me to answer yes or no because even the fact I'm hesitating to say yes or no is an answer in and of itself. So I support action against them. Whether it's governmental or not, it remains to be seen. I just hesitate because if you use government regulation, a lot of the times it actually powers the incumbent.

It actually makes the incumbent business more powerful. And I agree with that. I think what you're getting at here is that, you know, it's not about just ideology. You can't just apply the idea, oh, less government is always better. Well, yeah, and it's, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but this is going to get very, very intense in a good way. So an example is everyone says there,

free trade, free trade, free trade. Okay, are we for free trade if China continues what they're doing? Like, are we okay to sacrifice big banners that say free trade if that means that China might not have the advantage that they have? I am. So what do you think, to what extent has the other type of conservatism where, you know, like you said, they're just fully embracing free trade, which is what were you team taught in economics classes, you know, if you're... Of course it's a mass small utility. What has that done? Do you think that has contributed to the fact that there's a rise of socialism this country, that we're seeing this rise of Bernie-Signate's progressivism. People hate materialism.

Well, and so I'll give you a great example of an issue that I've moved on, and I'll incorporate it, which I think that the ruling class has used libertarianism for their own self-interest and has not used conservatism for the interest for the country. And so, for example, libertarianism, which, again, I'm very sympathetic with a lot of libertarian thinkers. I got my start in the libertarian rabbit hole on YouTube, so I want to be very, you know, very direct about that. Rand Paul, I consider to be a great senator and a good friend and a terrific guy. You put all that together, though, I don't know, I no longer support the legalization of marijuana. I just don't. Why? I used to be like, oh, yeah, so what? It's no big deal of what people

put in their bodies. But now I ask myself a broader question, is it going to make us a more competitive country? I ask myself a question like our biggest enemy, China. They're happy that our kids are going to be doing more weed. They sell us opioids. Yeah, no, that's right. And so, for example, I think it should be illegal that our pharmaceuticals are made in China. That would be a violation of traditional rights-based conservative doctor. One thing, though, one of those kids I was telling you about on the airplane they brought up to me was they had the idea, which a lot of younger conservatives do, they had, oh, people should be able to do whatever they want with their bodies.

I was there. A lot of people get, though. That's where I was. And how do you convert them, you know, how does turning point show them that there's something more to them? I don't think I have to. I just have to allow the discussion to happen. That's a hard sell.

Like, you and I didn't move. I don't know if you've moved on marijuana. or not, but I have. I didn't move overnight. Right. I didn't. I mean, I was, even like two years ago, yeah, who cares? Tax it. Everyone's own sovereignty. Now I see it has collateral destruction to our most prized possession, which is our young

people and our family. And so people say, well, Charlie, would you want to get rid of alcohol? That's a logical fallacy. You're talking about something that's currently illegal to be made legal, not something that's legal to make illegal. Let me ask you this. Because I agree with you on the fact that I think those discussions can happen with conservatives and they will

happen. I mean, I think that we allow ourselves to use reason to have our arguments so it's, you know, easier to talk than being shut down and being just called a big, you know, having this emotionally attached arguments. But you obviously deal oftentimes in campuses where you're dealing. With irrationality. Irrationality. You need somebody, you need this embraised Charlie Kirk to battle that.

I get that. But when we're talking about, you know, arguments, discussions within conservatism, do you take a different tone? Well, I mean, sure, I have to go instance by instance, but for example, right now, I have mutual respect for where you're coming from because you're informed, right? And I try to have respect for the other side unless I can so patently see that they're coming at it from a poor position. So, I mean, I'll tell, look, within the circles here, I think everyone here, let me give you great example. I think everyone here at CPAC wants the betterment and the revitalization and the renewal of America. I don't think leftists want that. Yeah. They don't. They want the destruction of our. Isn't that, that's the crazy thing. I mean, the topic for this year's CPAC is America versus socialism. No, and that's what I'm saying is that I was always taught in our public education system.

We all want the same thing. We just have different ways to get there. That's nonsense. That's nonsense. Like, don't tell me the left wants the same America that I want. They want strong families. They want babies protected in the womb. Yeah.

They want first freedoms protected. Of course not. Do you think it's possible that that is imploding on itself? Because I feel like the left right now, it's kind of like the Batman darkest before the dawn type of thing. socialism with Bernie Sanders, it's going to collapse. Well, you're an optimist. You're an optimist. Are you an optimist?

No, I mean, people say, are you optimistic or pessimistic about the country? And that's a hard question. I have to be optimistic because of what I do, or else it would be silly. It would be an exercise. It would be a futile exercise. However, futile, not futile, like the medieval, it would be exercise in futility. It sounded incorrect phonetically. But I have to ask myself the question, though,

when it comes to this, when's the left going to stop? And if other countries are any guide, they're not going to stop anytime soon. I mean, we have men who think they are women openly now winning weightlifting championships in the IOC. Did you see this? Yeah. This big guy with long hair wins the Olympic competition. And so, with the left stop there, I hope so. And by the way, I want a moderate Democrat party.

Right. Because that would be good for the country. We'll see what happens. I've got to let you go. They're giving us the signal, I guess. But we'll let you get to your next. Okay, that's fine. You guys do great, and I love Hillsdale.

Yeah, thank you so much. There's Charlie Kirk. He leads Turning Point USA. Great talking with you, Charlie. Thank you. This Radio Row updated CPAC 2020 is brought to you by Hillsdale College and Radio Free Hillsdale 101.7 FM.