WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Budd Friedman from 2012

Episode Date: November 13, 2022

From November 2012, Marc talks with Budd Friedman, the man behind the comedy club boom in America. Budd died on November 12, 2022 at the age of 90. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I know I sound great. You do sound great. I can't believe you're here. Listen Mark, I am so hip that yes I was in the celebrity poker tournament at Commerce and there was some people that I knew and some people are recognizing the guy says I guess I'm doing an iPod tomorrow. I said, yes, I'm doing an iPod tomorrow. They liked it? Were they surprised? I'm doing an iPod? Oh, wrong thing.

A podcast. I'm doing a pod. Did they figure out what the hell you meant? Well, obviously you didn't, so they certainly didn't. I was trying to be polite. I wasn't sure if you were still calling it that. Right, right, right. Well, you know, it's weird because it's hard to begin talking about what you've contributed to our business here. I think you invented the comedy club.

Would you say that? Oh, I would say that definitely by accident, but I certainly invented it. Well, I don't think a lot of people realize that the original improv on 44th Street, I mean, when did that start? 49 years ago, 1963. And where did you come from before that? How did you get into show come from before that how did you get into show business well how do you show business i was always a ham you might have noticed that sure and i'm surprised there's no monocle tonight hello well there's always the monocle of course i um i was working

in advertising in boston i was living in new york I moved to Boston to work in advertising and I was almost 30 and I said I've got to give show business a try. I always wanted to be an actor but I didn't have the you know, too middle class to starve I think was my line. Right. So I said I know I'll produce a show on Broadway. Yeah. So. That's easy.

Yeah, that was easy. I had no money, no contacts and very little taste. So I moved back to New York. I didn't want to work in advertising, which I had been doing in Boston, because it would be too full time. What were you doing? Copywriting? I was a copywriter. I was an account executive for a couple of small accounts.

But you grew up in Boston? No, no. I'm from Norwich, Connecticut. Isn't that odd? You're not a traditional New York Jewish person. Yes. Well, then I moved to New York when I was nine, looking for work. And did you go to college?

Oh, yes. I went to City College. I went to Brooklyn College, and I went to NYU. And you were also- For one degree. And you were in the war, too. I was in the big war, the Korean War. But that was a pretty nasty war.

I think a lot of people don't realize. I was only there for one. I was only in battle one day. Really? that how i was uh i was on the front line i was uh which which army in the army infantry how that happened as a jew boy from new york how did that ever know i don't know did you enlist did you i did enlist yes you thought it was the right thing to do no i knew i was going to be drafted i don't want to waste time in college because I didn't know what I wanted to do. So I volunteered with the draft thinking the war was going to last forever. Right.

Schmuck that I am. Three weeks after I was wounded, the war ended. Oh, really? Yeah. So the first day in battle, you got hit? I got one day and my only day in battle. And what happened? We were trying to take pork chop hill back you probably saw the movie i kept turning around looking for the cameras and you got hit and i

didn't see that grenade and boom i got nailed did you lose a lot of friends and whatnot i mean yeah we uh that's why i was uh be confirmed my my uh atheism really so? Well, the battalion was approximately, I don't know, 1,000 men. Yeah. And we were going to go back to try to take the hill back, Porkchop Hill. And the, what was he,

Presbyterian chaplain was going to bless everybody. And I said, no, no. And I walked away. Not because he was Presbyterian, because I believe in God. And in my company with the. And I said, no, no. And I walked away. Not because you're a special drinker. Because I believe in God. And in my company with the guys that I knew, 220 guys, 11 or 9, I can't remember exactly. Escaped unscathed.

And you were one of them. No, I was wounded. Oh, okay. Not dead. I'm saying they were either wounded or dead. Right. I didn't die. And that was it.

And I said, I know. Now I know there's something to athe Right. I didn't die. And that was it. And I said, I know. Now I know I'm in. Now I know there's something to atheism. I believe in something. Because that guy, he blessed us, and we still got named. Yeah, oh, I mean, it was terrible. So you came back, and did you get a, you know. Then I had the GI Bill.

Did you get a Purple Heart? I got a Purple Heart. I was supposed to get a Bronze Star, but I didn't. That's another story. You still have your Purple Heart? I got a Purple Heart. I was supposed to get a Bronze Star, but I didn't. That's another story. You still have your Purple Heart? Oh, yes. Alex, my wife, took my Purple Heart, my Combat Infantryman's badge, a pin I had made up for the one show I produced,

What's a Nice Country Like You, doing in a state like this, and a pin that I had won when I was 16 in the Bronx in a Tarzan swim meet at Cascade Swimming Pool. Lowe's 167th Street did a swim competition. I won. I was very proud of it. I am very proud of it. To this day, you're proud of it.

Anyway, so I came back and I started at City College. I had already gone to Brooklyn College for a semester and left to go into the Army. And while I was at City College, I called home or something

and I was living with my mother in New Orleans and she says, you're not getting, I was disabled, disability, she says, you're not getting, you're getting $118 a month.

I said, that doesn't sound right. And I came home and it was my gi bill giving me right you know money no no that was my disability not for the school right so i became a disabled veteran i found out a month out what was that how were you injured i got hit by a grenade right but i mean what was uh oh i got my right elbow under my armpit my rear end uh my right thigh. Shrapnel? Yeah. It's all out now? No, it's not. Oh, really?

There's a little left in there. We don't know. I read the report once years ago, but it was so technical, I didn't know. I have no idea where the shrapnel is. You know, it keeps surprising Alex all the time. There you go. It keeps popping out. What's this?

Do you? Yeah. So anyway, so I got the gi bill so i said oh i'm transferring out of city college i'm going to myu yeah and so i did and uh i i got out i got my degree in about three years in advertising in marketing and advertising and uh i worked for a while in new york and then uh but you i couldn't go to work in an agency because they start you out at 35 a week which i couldn't afford to do you know i was older than most of these guys a year older yeah so uh i got a job in a small agency in boston called marvin leonard advertising yeah you probably knew them as young as you can

that's a joke yeah there were two guys from new york who had moved up there Marvin Leonard advertising. You probably knew them as young as Rubicon. Sure, of course. That's a joke. There were two guys from New York who had moved up there to work for a small agency and they bought it. Okay. The guy retired. And they hired me

and I was very happy. It was very nice. And if I were married, I might have stayed there longer, but I was a little restless. So I decided I'm going to get into show business now or never. I'm going to get into show business now or never. I'm going to produce a Broadway show.

I'm not going to work now. I'll give myself a year to do it. Yeah. And that didn't work out too well. Did you try to produce a show? At that point, I did. And one of the highlights or the highlight was sitting down face-to-face with Lottie Lenya.

For the younger folks out there, Lottie Lenya was this legendary German, American German singer, actress, who was married to Kurt Weill, who wrote the show that I was interested, Knickerbocker Holiday. And I knew nothing about theater, but I read the script,

and I'm sure you're not familiar. It's before you. I know La Delenia. I know the name, but I can't connect. So it's about Peter Stuyvesant in Manhattan. Yeah. And Peter Stuyvesant had a wooden leg, and then there was a young guy in it. Yeah.

And on Broadway, the older guy was played by Walter Houston. John Houston's father. Angelica's grandfather. Yeah, yeah. And he sang September Song, a very famous song. And the younger guy forgot his name and played it. And I said to Lenya, I said, well, you know, I feel that this is going to be Summer Stock Show. They used to have big, these musical teams. We could book a younger

guy as the lead. I think we'd get more box office that way because the roles seem to be equal. Do you think that would work? She said, well, you know, the show was really originally written for Burgess Meredith. Oh, my God. You know who he is from Rocky. Yeah, the manager.

Well, of course, he was the young... Rock. He was a young actor. And he had a falling out with him, so he switched the show over to Walter Houston. Right. But yes, we could do that, she said. Well, needless to say, I didn't sell it.

I couldn't sell it. But it was nice meeting her. Oh, that was great. And I was looking at people like Arthur Godfrey, so the older guy. Sure. It was hilarious. So I was working as, I was selling magazines

on the telephone. I was, and I met on the phone, well, you know who Bullitt Sturgum was? No. He was Jackie Gleason's manager. Oh my God. And, I mean, how can you forget the name, Bullet Sturgeon? I'm a kid in the Bronx. I knew Bullet Sturgeon was in there.

You met him cold calling? I met his divorced wife. Ex-wife. She was so nice. She bought every magazine. And then I finally met her when I moved out here years later. Oh, really? And you told him the story?

Told her, not him. Oh, okay. No, he was, was i think dead already but uh anyway so i signed i worked in my brother-in-law's luncheonette on 45th street in madison avenue little goatee little mustache you've had a lot of facial hair i've seen the pictures yeah right a lot of things people would say to me uh so um you're an actor i said no you're right no an artist no no i'm a waiter? No. An artist? No, no, I'm a waiter. Just to embarrass them. Oh, what?

No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. No, I love it. So anyway, what was the birth of the, how did you get the name? So the improv. So I met this young lady who was in Fiorello, hit Broadway musical. And I was dating her and Silver. Yeah, I knew Silver.

We go out, yeah. And we go out with her friends from the show and they would say hey remember when we were in chicago trying out in the show and we go to harry's bar after the show and get up and sing and then there was a place in boston blah blah blah i said gee there's an idea i'll open up a coffee house with food yeah in the theater district yeah and the kids will come in get up and sing i'll make a few bucks and i'll expand my my knowledge of broadway people you schmooze a little bit you meet some people yeah exactly come in show people exactly so you want to show people

you want to have an after hours club and after not after i was after theater after theater that was it wasn't uh lindy's or one of the other places. Yeah, someplace the kids could go to and sing. Oh, yeah. And sing, yeah. But the hope was to get the big people in. Like to have a place where maybe. Never thought of the stars. No.

No, just thinking of the chorus kids. Right. And I think it would be a good part-time temporary venture. Sure. Like a coffee shop. Exactly. A coffee house. A coffee house, exactly.

With food, though. Right. And so that's what I did. I opened it and then we got. What was the original location? Where'd you get that? 44th. Right.

No, but I mean, what was it before? How'd you get the deal on that? Well, I smile because in 1962, when I rented at the end of 62 and opened in 63, it was a Vietnamese restaurant. 1962. Think about that day yeah it had all red lacquered walls and mirrors and yeah we ripped all the shit off the walls and there was the brick yeah cleaned up the brick and that's how the brick wall became the original brick wall the first brick wall which

is now sort of a symbol of stand-up comedy. Yes, exactly. I remember performing there. Thank God I get a royalty each time. Oh, yeah, every brick is on TV. That's my thing. No, I got to New York in 89, and Silver still had the place. And by that time, there was a letter missing, I think, and one of them was falling off. Oh, well, there are always letters missing. Well, you've seen that famous picture of John Lennon

in front of the emperor? Well, it says half of the M, it's a vertical sound, half of the M is missing, and there's no N on the bottom. I think it was great. No one fixed it? How come no one fixed it? You didn't want to fix it? I never had the money.

I never had the money. You know, for 10 years, I didn't make a penny. But who was coming around like right away? Because, I mean, Silver did a few shows, right? She was a penny. But who was coming around like right away? Because, I mean, Silver did a few shows, right? She was a dancer. Oh, and then she was in, by the time we opened, she was in How to Succeed in Business. And the kids came in, and Bobby Moss came in.

Rudy Valli even came in. Isn't it amazing Bobby Moss on Mad Men now, right? And he's playing the same role. Yeah. Chairman of the board, which is the last job he had. And he's great. He's great. He is. Who else was coming in uh well charles nelson riley right it was just fantastic and all the kids in

the show this is 63 62 63 who was the first comic to come around ah the first comic um was dave astor yeah and dave astor was the comics comic. He was playing the Blue Angels. You've certainly heard of that. And he wanted in one night. And he got up and performed. I didn't know who he was. And he was brilliant. He was really. And you had regular crowds.

People would start to come in. It was all show people. What was it? In the beginning, it was mostly just show kids coming in. And then word got out very quickly. But I'll get to that in a minute. But Dave Astor, so he's playing the blue angel and the comics would come to see him he would bring them over right so he became sort of a regular comedic genius yes that's it dave

astor showed up one night and you're like i got it were you a fan of comedy oh yes yeah yeah and i found that i prefer to hear the same joke over again than a song over and over and over again is that true yeah these kids would sing the same fucking songs all the time all the time and who are those like who are those kids singing do we know these people i mean i know that some of the people we know as comics were singers originally some of the women oh well no we had liza minnelli she would come by regularly? Absolutely, when she was 16. Wow. Judy Garland ever come?

Yes. We were talking about the kids first. Right. And Bette Midler, of course, when in 1969 Bette showed up. I'm trying to think of other singers. Well, we had everybody. Didn't Elaine Boosler sing initially?

Elaine Boosler was a singing waitress. Was that something you initiated? Did everyone have to perform? Oh, yeah. Well, as many as we could, yeah. So in case somebody didn't show up, hey, go on up. It was not a hook or anything. It was just a backup plan.

Exactly. And she was a terrible waitress, so she became a singing hostess. And then she met Andy Kaufman and decided to become a comedian. Later in, that was what, 1971? Yes. So in the early 60s, did Woody Allen come by? Woody was there once or twice. Dick Cavett came in for the second time he performed stand-up,

and I think you'll like the story. He does this joke. It's a classic joke. He says, my friend from Yale was so rich that when he got married, instead of throwing rice, they threw Uncle Ben.

I mean, hysterical. The next joke was he was so rich that they had the caviar flown in from beluga. Well, what does this Jew boy

from the Bronx or Connecticut know about caviar? And I said, where's beluga? I looked it up the next day and found out that beluga was the whale, not him. So you learned something. He came back a week later, and he does his rousset, but he doesn't do the beluga joke.

I said, Dick, why don't you do that beluga joke? He said, people just didn't get it. I said, I thought it was brilliant. You know, pretentious. I don't have to tell you how pretentious I can be, right? But you learned. I i learned um so when you when you started this i mean was it uh did you see it as a money-making venture i mean no no and it wasn't for some years but i saw it as a as a you know part-time temporary venture and and when when did it like when did you start to Did Lenny Bruce ever come in? Lenny came in once. To work or to hang out?

No, just hung out. And we had all the reviews of the Broadway shows stapled to a wall, a petition when you came in. And there were like six newspapers. And one of the shows that opened was The Sign in Sidney Bruce Steen's Window by Lorraine Hansberry, and it starred Gabe Dell. You know who Gabe is? Gabe was the original Dead End Kid, and he became a very successful actor, and he was starring in a show on Broadway.

And as Lenny was leaving, we were chatting, and he looks at the picture of Gabe, and he says, what's this old opium eater doing? Which I don't doubt that he was. And I said, Lenny, he's the star of a hit Broadway show. Didn't you read the reviews? And he says, bud, they don't have Broadway reviews in the law journal. That's all he was reading. Oh, so he was at the end of it. Yeah, yeah.

Was he a mess when he came in? No. No? No, it didn't seem to be. So when was the shift? When did you start to realize that comedy was what was bringing people in? How did that shift around? When did Carlin come in?

When did Pryor come in? When did- Well, Richard, let's go back to Judy Garland for a minute. Liza one day comes to me, and I picture this. I never forgot it. Remember how the old coffee urns in the restaurants, you'd pour the water and then pour it over on the top? I'm just ciscolating for those people.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They still have those. Making coffee and Liza comes up to me. She's 16. She says, Bud, Bud, can I sing tonight? My father's here and he's never heard me sing. And I'm saying to myself, holy cow, Vincent Minnelli's in my shithouse.

I can't believe it. I said, no, I'm sorry, we're all booked up. She says, oh, please. I said, oh, okay for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then she, and then, oh, then what happened? No, she didn't bring Judy in. One of my ex-piano players was dating her

and playing for her and making arrangements for her. And he brought her in. And then, so we had nights where Liza sang with Judy doing duets with Peter Allen playing the piano. Oh, my God. Liza's boyfriend, husband. Yeah, uh-huh. And then when John brought her in, John Meyer, the piano player, I sang duets with her.

With Liza Minnelli? No. With Judy Garney? With Judy. With Judy. And how was your voice? My voice was pretty good. Yeah. Anyway, we're singing, and my friend Jack Knight, do you remember me, Jack? Jack is a 6'1 stock and actor and good voice.

And we're doing, remember the terrazzo floor? Yeah. We had there, very smooth, right in front of this little stage. And I'm sitting sitting in a chair and jack is pushing the chair and judy and i are singing on the boardwalk in atlantic city ah it was really i mean unbelievable and then these two couples are sitting there yeah gypsies yeah not broadway gypsies real gypsies fortune teller and a woman says i want to sing next i said i'm sorry but miss garland is singing i don't care who I want to sing I said get out I threw them out I don't think she did I know were you thinking that maybe you were gonna you were gonna actually get into show business I mean in terms of singing and I

mean did you oh I I you know I thought about it but it's always in the back of my head. I've done a few movies, but of course I'm always playing myself, which is a stretch. Sure. But at the beginning, was that one of your angles? No, when opening the club? No, no. It was just to be part of it. I wanted to be a producer, and I was going to do that.

And I did produce a show, finally. And how did you decide who went on and what happened? Was Silver part of that? Well, she was my conscience i guess sometimes but for the most part i was i was once referred to as benign dictator and you would come in say hey bud can i go sure mark you'll be on next oh i'm sorry rodney just came in you're going after rodney and while rodney's on robert klein you'll be after robert yeah and then you'd be on at four in the morning finally because you know richard pryor would come in the whole thing you had some young unknown neurotic jew hating you by the end of the night oh a lot of young neurotic jews and

gentiles hated me well you had that reputation you ran sort of a tight ship yeah i mean you know i ran it i wasn't making a fortune. I was barely getting by. And I said, you know, at least I'm going to enjoy it. I didn't know. You know, I had no, the only experience I had in food was working as a waiter. So I had no idea of what food costs and drink costs and all of that. You didn't think to hire somebody that might understand that stuff? I didn't have the money, you know.

And I was always, you know,lex says uh oh cut that crap you know i say you know how poor i was and how it still to this day you know colors the way i think about things when did it become a comedy club when did you realize that this was the racket um i would say that uh after i came out here oh really but no but but there were all those guys at the improv. Well, yeah. Well, it was singer, comic, singer, comic. So it was a variety show. Singer, comic, comic, singer, and singer, comic, comic, comic.

And I could walk into the bar and tell whether a singer or comic was on, because if a comic was on, all the singers would be. Watching? In the bar. I just said that. I don't want to have nothing to do with it. They hated each other. They did? yeah singers hated comics comics in this particular case because they vied for the stage time but who were the guys that you like you know because i know you know the

the story about jay leno uh well going back the first comic yeah um dave astor yeah after dave and the first comic to make it out of the improv was Robert Klein. And Robert was in a show called Appletree. And he brought in, and everyone, can I curse on this? Sure, of course. And everyone knows I'm a star fucker.

Yeah. And he came in with Alan Alda, somebody, Larry Blyden, and Barbara Harris, the three stars of Apple Tree. He was in the chorus to watch him. I'm impressed. But he was great. What year was that? That would be 66, I think, about like 65 maybe.

And he was just coming into his voice. To break out, to break in material and then he started to come in almost every night with his wall inject tape recorder which was this big like 30 inches wide and he'd stick it up in the back

and record the show and go home and listen to it which is the important thing but Robert was the cream of the crop for me. And then Rodney came in, Dangerfield that is, and fell in love with Robert and became his mentor. And then they just started sprouting out. And Pryor, I forgot how the first time he came in.

But it was pre the shift the shift in prior right it was it was late 60s prior he was he was still doing bill cosby right but i didn't know because i never got outside to see anyone like bill was he funny then though oh he's very funny and he was playing the living room and we went to see him and that's a nightclub. It was a nightclub on the east side. And he's performing and it was very crowded, the little place. So they sat Nipsey Russell at my table,

which is fine. And all during the show, Nipsey's going, and the answer, what the fuck's wrong with you, Nipsey? He says, he's doing Bill Cosby. I said, what? He's doing Bill Cosby.

And he went over and he blasted Richard. Oh, really? And Richard never did it again. That was it? Yeah. The end of the Cosby shtick. Yeah. When did that generation, like, who would you say were the guys that,

you know, like, if you were going to name five or 10 comics that came out of that late 60s that you think were improv comics, who were they? Well, it would be Robert Klein, Richard Rodney, Lily Tomlin. Lily came in. My piano player was Louis St. Louis, and he was from Detroit. Yeah, yeah.

And Louis says, I got a friend of mine from Detroit who just came in. She liked to audition. I said, I told her to come in Thursday night at 11. Yeah. And we didn't get started until 11.30, you know, after the shows had broken and people came in. So I happened to be standing out in front,

and the limo pulls up. And in those days, it meant something. Yeah. And this young lady gets out putting on white gloves, putting them on. Mr. Friedman. I said, I'm Lily Tomlin. I said, oh, come right now.

I'm very impressed. She went on, blew me away. Because she was already somebody. No, completely unknown. Why was she in a limo? I'll tell you. So three weeks later, after she's a regular at the club, she tells me the story that a block east of the improv

was the St. James Theater, a big Broadway musical house. And as I say, the theater didn't break till 1130. So she went down there, gave the guy limo driver $5 to drive her around the block so she could make an entrance. Anyway, and, well, there were a lot of guys like Elaine, Ed Boosler, Ed Bluestone, who was also Elaine's boyfriend, and Andy Kaufman came along a little bit later

Lewis? Richard? Oh of course Richard Lewis yes thank you but Richard you know funny story didn't audition killed I said stick around for the second show kid he said oh thanks a lot and he didn't do as well he told me later again three weeks later

well I had 30 friends at my audition and they left they didn't stick around for the second show i said oh okay and what about jimmy walker oh jimmy walker i'm sorry thank you jimmy walker freddie prince right all started with you yeah freddie was 15 and a half and this was like the late 60s yeah and what was the culture like? I mean, obviously you were open when JFK got killed. Oh, that was, yeah. That was the first time we closed. Yeah.

And we opened, I mean, we were there. All our regulars came in. We sat around drinking wine and commiserating. And that and the blackout. And I forgot what year the blackout was, but I was living a block west of the club, and lights went off, which wasn't unusual for my apartment. I figured we couldn't pay the bill.

And I walked down the street, and it's all dark, and I get to the club, and I'm sitting around doing nothing. I said, light some candles and open the wine. Did you have a show? We had people getting up and talking you know well we didn't have a microphone in the beginning do you didn't have any no we got one maybe six eight months into it yeah and we did story theater long before second city did story theater and we had dave asher sitting at a on a chair on the stage with a microphone and Richard Pryor and I left out the most important guy, Ron Carey.

Yeah. Who was the funniest man in the world. Yeah. You know, Ron? I don't. Well, I mean, I've heard the name. I remember seeing- Okay.

So he was the short cop on Bonnie Miller. Yeah. I remember seeing him. Yeah. He was in- He had the twitch. He was kind of twitchy, right? He was very nervous.

Yeah. High anxiety. And he was a chauffeur and he says, when he's getting the bags, he goes, I got him. I got him. I got him. twitchy, right? Very nervous. High anxiety. And he was a chauvinist. When he's getting the bags, he goes, I got them. I got them. I got them. I ain't got them. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Funny guy. And he was hilarious. And he and Richard Pryor would act out the story that David would be telling. Oh, wow. It was brilliant. And then Ron would go on every Friday and Sunday night doing two shows a night, packed, doing all this catholic material in the late 60s very avant-garde is that when it all started to sort of break out like in the late 60s

yeah yeah and you could see people changing like carlin did carlin come in uh a couple of times when did when did calvin come in what was that like was that the most amazing thing ever what was it what's good story i i andy calvin came to me through a guy named Epstein who owned a rock place, a rock coffeehouse thing it was, in Great Neck where Andy was from. And he calls me up. I knew him slightly. He said, listen, I've got this guy. You should take a look at him.

Very funny guy. And I didn't ask. I never asked questions. I said, fine. Okay. Send him down. He comes in. Yeah. Mr. Feathman? Yeah. look at him very funny guy and i didn't ask i never asked questions i said fine okay send him down he comes in yeah mr feedman yeah i said yes he says i am andy kaufman i look at him i said where you from kid yeah i am from an island in the caspian sea and he's doing the foreign man

and i'm biting i'm hook line and singer he's got I said, okay, if he says you're funny, go on. We'll put you on. So he goes on. He's doing the foreign man. Everyone's looking at him. They don't know what to do. They're nervous. Twitter, the whole thing.

And then he does Elvis. Now, singing Elvis was no big deal for me because when I was in the army in Japan, the Japanese women could sing the American songs perfectly. Couldn't speak a word of English. So I figured this is the same thing. And then he finished the song and he goes, well, thank you very much. And I go, I fell off the chair. Right.

I knew I had been had. Yeah. And I loved it. And, you know, we had adopted Andy. And I used to stay in the back of the room, particularly out then. I brought him out here for a month when I opened the club because all my guys had already moved out here and they were playing in the convenience store.

Yeah. And it was Jay Leno and Freddie Prince and Jimmy Walker. Well, Jimmy never came back then, grateful fuck. But anyway, so Mitzi says to Jay, you can't play both clubs.

And he says, well, if that's the case, since Bud used to manage me, I'll go to the improv. Oh, okay, you can play both clubs. And, of course, Freddie Prinze wouldn't dare say anything to him. Andy came out. Andy comes out, and he's wrestling women and the whole thing. And I have to watch. I became an expert on body language from behind

because i'm watching the guy's shoulders because they want to go up and beat the shit out of andy on the stage because he's notorious for this yeah with the women and all and of course they were all it was all set up but when you were when you were looking at people like i imagine the reason you put people on was because they did well with the crowd right i mean even at the original club went over with the crowd yeah absolutely mark it was you know is my taste and the crowd's taste right but i mean andy sometimes would push the limit oh yeah and what but i knew andy and i didn't give a shit you know you know sometimes you know doing gatsby got a little tiring you know about that great gaps and now it's a's a hit off-Broadway show. Do you know that?

No, I didn't know that. There's a company called the Something Elevator Company in the off-Broadway. And they do it. And the guy reads the book, the whole book. Yeah.

But they have people acting out the parts, too. Right, right. It's hilarious. I think of Andy and it just... Yeah, he has this... How I met Zamuda was he was part of a comedy team

and they were terrible and to this day I can tell them they used to use fake blood, fake blood in their mouth. But they also did carpentry work and they were helping me fix up the place.

Do you know who Zamuda's partner was? Chris Albrecht who became president of HBO, right? Isn't it interesting that a lot of these guys, even the door guys went on? And Howard Klein too, right? Howard Klein, Jimmy Miller, who handles Jim Carrey, and he met Jim.

Who's the most successful comedy director now? The comedy director? Yeah. Adam McKay? No? Judd Ap McKay? No? Judd Apatow? Judd Apatow was a doorman. Out here, though.

Yeah, out here. Oh, in New York, we had Kenan Wayans, Joe Piscopo. Danny Aiello was a bouncer. Piscopo was a doorman? Yeah. Before he was a comic? Oh, yeah. Well, when he was a struggling comic.

Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Mattel was a doorman later when Silver had it. Oh, was he? Yeah, and Kevin Brennan was a comic. Oh, yeah. Well, when he was a struggling comic. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Well, Attell was a doorman later when Silver had it. Oh, was he? Yeah, and Kevin Brennan was a doorman when Silver had it. Yeah. Yeah, but you came out here when? I came out here in 1975, or late 74.

We opened in 75. So you basically, most of your guys left New York. Yes, exactly. That's one reason. Well, I wanted to live left New York. Yes, exactly. That's one reason. Well, I wanted to live here for other reasons. Right. And you sort of followed the business out.

New York kind of dried up a little. And you had competitors in New York. No, New York, we were doing great. It was a gold mine. It was doing very, very well. I moved out here because I wanted to live in Los Los Angeles that was my pacemaker oh really well you need to plug it in or what I'm joking oh I don't know you're a joker I've seen your ass I know I felt that you felt that way my entire career I felt that way my entire career.

That's all you're wondering in the improv. So the improv then, by 1970, was profitable. 1970. 71. When did it start really? No, no. It was, Silver and I went to Europe for the first time. We took a vacation. Because everyone said, if you leave the club,

it'll fall apart. And I hired Chris Albrecht to be the manager. And we were away for three weeks, and we came back. Place was still in business. And Chris is younger than I am and had a great rapport with the Young Comics. And I said, this is my chance to move to LA because I just started to make money and so I had come out here. I came out in 74. My friend Jack Knight was on a series and he was also a carpenter and knew what I was looking for

and he took me around and we went to what is now the improv and was called the pitch of players was owned by a guy named Joe Roth who went to become a very successful movie producer still is and we went in it was just the great bones grab on but it was nothing the a bar and no kitchen. But it wasn't for sale or anything. So when I went back to New York, I saw this act there, this duo that used to work for me in New York. They were now out here.

Who's that? In L.A. This is the punchline. All right, go ahead. And I get a call from one of the guys. He says, I'm back in New York because I'm a writer on this new show called Saturday Night Live.

And you're still interested in the place because the pitchers want to sell. And here's Joe Ross' phone number. And it was Senator Al Franken. I always do a list of alumni and I've left them off until last week and I'm watching the convention. I saw him and I said,

holy shit! And me, the biggest name dropper in the world yeah i left him off a senator right so um anyway so i called up joe made a deal on the phone for for the lease which is all he had but the only problem was it was only a three and a half year lease and i had to come out meet the landlord and didn't and finally we got a 10 year lease but were you aware of the comedy store of course the comedy store started do you know how it started yeah i do yeah tell me sammy shore started as sort of a clubhouse for his buddies yeah and who was his partner i don't know rudy deluca okay you know rudy is no uh remember high anxiety the killer with the the the um what do they call those things on his teeth?

Braces on his teeth? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's Rudy. Okay. Okay, Rudy writes all the movies with Mel. Yeah. So Rudy was writing for Sammy. Yeah.

And he calls me up, Rudy, and he says, listen, bud, this is in, you know, when they opened in 72, 73, 72. but this is in, you know, when they opened 72, 73, 72. He says, I'm thinking of opening a club like the Improv in Hollywood. Would you be upset? I said, no, I'll never come out there. Go ahead, you know. And, of course, two years later I did.

But by then Rudy was out of it and Sammy was out of it. Because, yeah, he let her have it. And she accuses me of stealing her idea. So. The tension. Oh, well, I have no tension. I just, her have it. And she accuses me of stealing her idea. So the tension. Oh, well, I have no tension. I just, I enjoyed it. Yeah. I enjoyed the, you know, her anxieties. Her high anxieties, yeah.

But when you came out, so you got the 10-year lease. I know some things, but, you know, your guys from New York were working for her, right? Yeah. And then you set up shop and you're like i need you right and most of them came up yeah they all came except jimmy walker right and you still pissed off at him yes okay yes yeah because let me tell you mark of all the people i used to say i used to think that they all owed their career to me right and i realized finally after you after 30 years, it's not that's true.

They would have made, Jay would have made it anywhere, anytime, maybe take a little longer, but he would have made it. So you've let some of that go. I let it all go, except Jimmy Walker. He really owes his career to me. Because if I didn't put him on,

and once I saved his life because I was going to beat the shit out of him, if I didn't help know hope jimmy he yeah is that the only one you got the only grudge the only grudge really really it's pretty amazing it is pretty amazing i think there must be others but i can't maybe i blocked them out of my mind or they're no longer in the business you know so when you you and silver split up when you moved out here no we came out here with zoe and her sister beth uh we lived here uh from 74 to who was running the new york club chris oh he just did we sold him a piece of the club okay and uh we um we lasted about 275 77 we started and, we were going to get a divorce,

and I agreed to give her the New York Club because I knew she wanted to go back to New York. And I kept this club, and the New York Club was really worth about 10 times what this club was at the time. And you had no vision of franchising or anything. No. No, it was just, this was going to be a nightclub business. Exactly. It was going to be a, you know,

and then I got out of the management business. Who were you managing at the time? Bette Midler and Jay Leno. Those, you know, unknowns. That was it. Yeah. Oh, then I had Lenny. Lenny Schultz.

You know, John Mendoza. Yeah. So it was one night in the bar with John here. It was four or five years ago. And we're talking about Jay's name's name I said you know I used to manage him you manage Jay Leno yeah I said yeah and I also managed Batman you manage Jay Leno and Batman he's about me put me up on a pillar and I said I also managed Lenny Schultz and he almost fell on the floor laughing oh god I'm lying I thought Lenny was gonna be the next Sid Caesar

yeah he was something his son was hanging around for a little while I thought Lenny was going to be the next Sid Caesar. Yeah, he was something. I really did. His son was hanging around for a little while. I think his son was doing comedy a little bit. It's weird. So you start the improv in LA in 75, 74, 74, 75, and then it burned down very quickly? Coincidentally, it burned down during the comic strike,

and it wasn't the comics who did it, not my comics. Was that 76? No. No, so here's the story. So Silver goes back to New York in 78. The divorce is final in 79, and the strike is in 79. That's when the fire came. The strike started at the comedy store because Mitzi wasn't paying anybody,

and she was fighting them. Right, and she was making a lot of money. I had no idea until I read the fire came. The strike started at the comedy store because Mitzi wasn't paying anybody. And she was fighting them. And she was making a lot of money. I had no idea until I read the book recently just how successful that place was at that time. And she had this big room that was Ciro's. The main room, yeah. And so she put in names, I use quotes, and they didn't draw flies. Then she put in three of her best unknowns and packed the place right and she's packing it every friday and saturday night she didn't want

to give many money right i mean she's and tom dreeson and uh it was david letterman and uh probably jay went on and you know good but the strike was like spearheaded by you know a group of comics and tom dreeson yeah, well, Tom was the union organizer. And they came to me, and I said, look, what do you want? I'm in the middle of a fire here. But you weren't paying guys either? No. At the time?

No. And, you know, anyway, so I said, look, come back to me after I open. I'll negotiate in good faith. They said, fine. Believe me, in hindsight, if they had come to me first i would have thrown them out on the rest you wouldn't pay to me no because i struggled so long in new york and i remember jimmy walker again yeah was making in the 60s he was working as an engineer in a radio station wmca and he remember a, remember Alex Bennett? Yeah, of course. He worked for Alex.

He was making $250 a week. $250. I was a fortune in those days. I wasn't making that. I was really pissed. Anyway, so I resented it. But by the time I got up and running again,

I felt a little differently. And you made an agreement that whatever she pays, I'll pay. When the strike, when it finishes. I paid about the same or a little less. Why was there an idea that these guys should work for nothing? Well, when I started the club, and since I wasn't making any money, why the fuck should they make any money? But it was also, when I opened the club,

it was the only comedy club in the world. Right. Right? So who knew? As I say, you want to come in, you go on, and you'll wait. So I wasn't hiring anybody. It was just who was there. Right, and they needed the stage time.

Yeah, exactly. And wait, so when the club burned down, you suspect it might have been arson? We suspect that it might have been somebody from Sunset Boulevard, a devotee of somebody from Sunset Boulevard. You got a name on that? Yes, we do.

He's dead, too. Ollie Joe? I had nothing to do with it. No. Is Ollie Joe dead? Yeah. Oh, I don't know. Who do you think it was?

I'm not going to mention any names. It's a good, suitful libel. Not that that this guy had any family but you have a pretty strong sense it was a comic yeah yeah and who was caught up in the fervor of that that situation well she she was like a mesmer mason was it medusa no masonic yeah messianic messianic you knowianic. You know, idle, these guys. I was a doorman there. Were you? In 1988. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, for a year.

And even then, after it was over, there still is that thing there where it's sort of like Mitzi said. And she's ill. She's like, she's not. The great story is Alex and I went to the Tonight Show to see Charles Nelson Reilly about something. And I had no idea who else was on the show. And we'll go backstage after the show had started. We're walking down the hallway and there's Mitzi's boyfriend. What's his name?

Which one? A handsome blonde guy. Argus. Argus Hamilton. Who I had double dated with before i met alex after i had divorced silver anyway some guy he still goes on every night first well i know i know i know so i go hey how are you we start talking for a minute and then she sticks her head out over his shoulder and she and so we walk out we're backstage by the bar

and he comes to get a drink. Now we're talking for five minutes. I have to listen to Alex and all of that. And Alex and I are just dating. Serious, but we're just dating. And when he leaves, I said, you know, that's Mitzi's boyfriend. And she says, what? Alex says, you're telling me that a woman who looks like that

has a man who looks like that, and I, who look the way I look, have you? I gotta marry this woman. Did she ever, was there ever any sort of men's maid between you and Mitzi? No. No, I mean, when I used to come out here, before I opened the club, she was very friendly and very nice,

but once I stole her idea, she was very friendly and very nice. But once I stole her idea, that was it. Really? And did you have the same resentment of her that she had of you? No, no, I didn't care. You know, I mean, it's fleas. Outside of the initial sort of like you need, we got to share talent. You didn't care.

Yeah, that was the other thing. That's what I really resented in the sense for the comics because i remember carol siskind yeah i remember her um with the eye it was working yeah you know at the improv and she couldn't go to the comedy store and she went to new york for a week she came back she says bud i did 12 shows in one night she was beaming right right in new york running around doing the strip you know anyway that that's the only thing the comics didn't get a chance to work out as much as they could because how many spots can we give them you know and she was the one that was creating all the tension yeah yeah because by the time i got there you know it was already it was sort of hanging on and dark and it always had sort of a dark energy and that was still some sort of weird unspoken rule and I remember when I got here I was 20 years old and we wanted to work at the improv so me and my friend Jimmy we actually went

over there during the day no one was in the showroom and we did a set for each other just to break the rule. When I was finishing off the club on Melrose and we hadn't opened yet this young couple walks by and they come in. They're looking around. Is this the same improv from New York? I said, yes, it is. Are you the,

I said, yeah, but how are you? And we're chatting and so who's going to perform? The same people perform in New York? I said, yeah, more or less. She says, Jay Leno?

I said, oh, yeah. Freddie Prinze? I said, oh, yeah. Steve Lannisberg? I said, no, no. Steve won't be performing here oh why is that well because he's living with the owner of the comedy store and the woman says oh no not steve like he's gay right i said are you a chauvinist lady couldn't the owner of the comedy

store be a woman which it is yeah oh thank goodness she said did you now steve was he like i i don't know him as a comic but he was great right right? Oh, he was brilliant. Brilliant. Did you remain friends with him? Yes, yes. And Alex met him later on and just fell in love with him. So most of that stuff is faded. You're friendly with comics in general? Who, me? Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Yeah? Yeah, I think so. And there may be guys out there. I'm sure there are guys out there that are nice to me. Yeah. But hate me. Why do you think they hate you because because you know I wasn't

the most diplomatic person in the world yeah I admit that you know and I was also very nervous very uptight when I met Alex you know 32 years ago you know she come into the club with me and I look in the dining room and I go slam the chairs around moving them into place. Yeah. Just out of looking for attention. And also, you know, this is my baby. Yeah.

Your personality drove the place. Yeah. But now my personality's changed. Thank God. You know, all the comics, because Alex's ass, because she made me a nice guy. Yeah. Yeah, well, people were afraid of you. Yes, they were.

Yes, they were yeah and now in terms of like let's get to this franchise into the like because it was clear that now we're talking yeah yeah so the you know the comedy store was its own thing but you don't acknowledge that as a comedy club like you acknowledge the improv is the first comedy club really yeah the comedy store was some weird experiment no that was a comedy club. No, no, no, no. But now you didn't set out to franchise. No. But what was the idea?

When did you realize, like, I've got enough comics to do this? It wasn't enough comics. There was always enough comics because, you know, Mitzi had the Dunes Hotel. You know that? She had the main room. No, I did, yeah. She still had it by the time I got there. Yeah, so I had a comic who worked at the club

who just passed away by the name of Mark Anderson. And Mark came from the- He owned the part of the Arizona one. That was a horrible story. He was the owner. Did he have the San Francisco one, too? Yeah. Yeah, I remember that guy.

Yeah, he was a very sweet guy. And my friend Bud Robinson was managing him and mark was a psychiatrist psychologist PhD from Princeton mm-hmm but he was crazy yeah but a sweet guy and he had an interesting different act and he said well you know so I'm sorry so in night the the big turning point for the improv was evening at the, a television show. I did that twice. Yeah.

1980. That's when it started? Yeah. So we did 14 years of that. Right. So that's what made us. And that's when you knew you could branch out because the brand had become so established. Exactly.

And Mark Anderson came to me. He says, I'd like to open an improv in San Diego or in Pacific Beach. I'm from somewhere down there. And I said, okay. And so we went over, looked for sites, found a place, built a club. And we had the most fantastic opening. Yeah. We rented a car on the train.

We rented a car on the train, and before we went down, I did something I've never done before, never really talked about this on the air before, haven't done since. I went to Robin Williams, and I said, Jonathan Winters is coming to the opening, and he'd love to see you there. And Mark Anderson knew Jonathan to his family and went to Jonathan and said,

Robin Williams is coming, and he'd love to see you there. And we got them on the stage for the first time. Ever? Ever. Oh, my God. And that was Robin's hero. Yeah, that was part of the – then we had – so on the train, we had an unknown, Bill Maher, who as the train pulled out of the stage,

went into the men's room and came out wearing a smoking jacket, which he proceeded to wear a lot. And we put everybody up in the night. We had Bea Arthur, who was the hottest one on television then, Ruth Buzzy from Laugh-In. And it was just great. A caravan of comics. Yeah, it was just wonderful. And the show was terrific, obviously robin and uh and jonathan closing it and uh it it ran for a number of years i never to this day figured out why it closed

what the san diego one yeah i it was just like i remember the evening of the improv and then you know i did that in 89 and 91 i did the shows and you were there. But like Robin's another one. I don't think anyone anticipated. Did you anticipate when you opened that? What? That Robin would become a superstar? Well, yeah, you knew that. But that comedy would get so fucking hot.

Oh, I never. That's a good point. Because I never thought that comedians would become like superstars. Rock stars. And that's what the early 70s was, right? Or the mid-70s. Yeah, late 80s. It was crazy.

What do you think that was? More the 80s. Why did that happen? It's cable. You know, when the, remember the Hot Channel? Yeah. Right? And what was it?

Chris's boss was, anyway, the president had a- Michael Fuchs? Yeah, Michael Fuchs. At HBO. HBO had a champagne breakfast at the Four Seasons Hotel, and there were about 400 people in the room. And he said, you know, thanks to HBO, there are now over 300 comedy clubs in America.

I yelled out, thanks a lot, Michael. The room broke up. But it was cable. It was a success of the improv but do you think like because a lot of people like my generation and and certainly when the the collapse of the boom happened and clubs started hurting you remember that oh yeah but they blamed overexposure and they blamed that you know there was a watering down that there were comics that maybe not we're not that great or were too mediocre. Like, it used to drive me nuts. I'd go into the improv and you had that fucking sign on the wall

over a million jokes told. And I'm like, he knows who he's comparing it to. It's fucking McDonald's. Yeah, I know. I know. And I got the joke, but do you think on some level? Oh, no. I didn't.

Here's my theory on that. You know, guys would look at my success and see the show, and they say, ah, if Bud Free can do that, I can do it. And I'm going to cover all my bowling alley and make it a comedy club. Right. And they did. And who am I going to get to perform? Who do I have here in Des Moines?

I know Harry. Harry's a funny guy, the guy at the gas station. And so the people would here in des moines i know harry harry's a funny guy the guy the gas station and so the people would go in des moines to see harry perform who was not you know less than adequate and they say well this is what comedy clubs is all about why should i go to the improv when i go to la or to vegas or something like that right so you think it was i think that was a part of regional comedy scenes that were built on happy hour performers and aspiring comics. Yeah. And

the recession. Right. But I mean, but did you do you consider like were you ever intrusive? Like I know like the Mitzi, you know, was guiding everybody through their act and telling them what to do. But I never got that from you. Were there guys? Did you ever step in and creatively coach anybody?

I did. They never listened. Thank goodness. So even at the beginning, because I remember Silver was always very, you know, when I, even when I was there and the place was sort of dying, you know, in the late 80s, you know, she was always very proactive and very sort of like, you know, coddling. Oh, I was always, we were always encouraging. Yes. I was always very proactive and very sort of like coddling. Oh, we were always encouraging. Yes, I was always encouraging.

And I did give notes occasionally, but it was mostly encouragement. Yeah. They needed. Do you think it's an art form? Yes, definitely. And I would go. I have a big laugh, as you probably noticed. And I would go to the Tonight Show in New York and the Ed Sullivan Show

when any of the comics were on. And laugh it up. In your life, who were the guys that, like, you know, you just, like, outside of Ron Carey, the guys that just, you know, forever made a mark? Robert Klein, Richard Pryor, Rodney Dangerfield. Yeah, he was fucking unbelievable. Rodney came in. He worked at the living room, the same place that Richard went to eventually

and I saw the write up I had no idea who he was and this is when he just sort of reinvented himself he just came back as Rodney after like 12 years of aluminum siding selling jokes and I heard Rodney Dainsville

I'm expecting this Ivy Ivy leaguer come in you know with a little narrow suit lapel suit on. And this guy walks in, a middle-aged drunk, and he's drunk.

And he goes on stage, and he bombed. Probably the only time he ever bombed the Empire. He came back the next night sober, as if to say, I'll show these young fuckers. And he gets up, wipes out the room. Just brilliant. And he became my unofficial house emcee for two years. And when did he open his own club?

After two years. Yeah. And he asked me to run it for him. And I said, I can't leave my club. It'll fall apart. Right. A year later, I left. And the first year Chris was running it, business increased 15%.

But when you look at the arc of show business, you look at somebody like Robert Klein, who some people think did not get the dues or the respect that was owed him as a comic over time. Do you believe that? Yes, I do. Why do you think that happened? Well, there was something about his persona, which I did not see. But his manager said that he was a little arrogant. I thought he had the right to be.

So he was pompous and he maybe screwed up opportunities for himself. There are a lot of guys like that. Because when I was at the improv, by the time I was working at the New York improv, Marty was hanging around. Bob Shaw was hanging around. Ron Darian was still around. Mike Ivey and Uncle Dirty. Bob Altaw was hanging around ron darian was still around uh mike ivy and uncle dirty bob altman is still around i mean all those guys started with you do you do you know what what

and you know why did it make it well bob altman claims he had the biggest selling comedy album in the ever at that time that's what he used to talk about uncle dirty he used to say like i admit you know he had a big myth quizzical look on bud freeman's face but why do you think you know do you think there are guys that were great that just didn't make it well i didn't think uncle dirty was great right i thought he was a little um what's the word derivative uh-huh uh but uh people used to say me years ago, who hasn't made it that should have made it? Yeah. And the only answer I had at the time was Jay Leno. Yeah.

All the time. Yeah. But now I feel that anyone who's made it has made it because they deserve to or they're lucky. But I don't think there's anyone that hasn't made it. I can't think of anyone that, you know, I can't understand why they didn't make it. Right.

Usually there's a story there. There's a story, you know, just not good enough. But also like their own demons perhaps? That happens occasionally. Yeah, sure. But I don't know. I can't think of, you know, I thought of this many times. I can't think of anybody that.

That should have made it that day. right without a reasonable explanation yeah yeah and do you what do you think of the the state of comedy now well i think it's very good you know it's it's interesting because there are thousands of comics where there used to be hundreds and that's a good thing yeah for me it is when i started the improv here's here's our regulars i'm just trying to think of ron carrey stiller mirror richard pryor robert klein rodney dangerfield lily tolman you would never uh mistake one voice for the other right you knew the minute you heard these people who they were they were unique well they are unique well maybe they were unique they're not anymore because cable and no they

were always unique i mean yeah but the exposure right uh on cable and on television right uh became such a thing that people started to copy and how tough is it you know you're a comic to come up with original material it's hard that nobody else is touched right uh so but i i say that although there are thousands of comics there are still the people who like cream will rise to the top with unique voices you know the unique voices who uh you know uh still the same number of breakout people right they're just more uh chafe wheat from the chafe whatever you know but you need those guys too right i mean especially when you're running a franchise business you got to have the well we hope we only take the top people for our clubs yeah but i mean you got to

have openers and middles and yes right you gotta a farm system of some kind. Yeah, and it works out and you see people developing and it's very gratifying. And where do you stand on the people that are derivative? I mean, when you see people that are obviously stealing people's work and that kind of stuff. Well, we've called out a few people on that, but they don't rate too highly. Right, right. And they won't work for me. Yeah. For the most part. So what's the status of the situation?

Like I see over there, I don't know. What's your involvement in the club now? Oh, well, my partner Mark Lano and I have in 1999, I can't remember, boy, the decades are flying by. 1999, we franchised or licensed all the clubs, including Melrose, to a guy named Al Copeland. And he had great plans, great ideas, and he was the guy who created Popeyes. Chicken.

Yeah. Yeah. But they had no anti-homosexual policies. Yeah, sure, they were okay on the level. but they had no anti-homosexual policies. Yeah, sure, they were okay on the level. So, you know, and they had a great plan, and, you know, we discussed it, and they were working with Robert Hartman,

who had worked for us for many years. So I thought it was in safe hands, and it is. I mean, you know, but then Al died, but before he died, we had to sue him because it wasn't opening the number of clubs he was supposed to. So, eh. Yeah. But so my involvement is we own the name.

We get a piece of the action. But we don't have the day-to-day aggravation, which is why I can sit here and smile and, you know, go crazy driving out here. Yeah. Wherever we are. It's not that. We're right by Pasadena. Nothing? Yeah, I don't want to get into that.

The two Jews mean whether you spend the first two hours talking about how I got here. That's one thing I decided after I was out in California a few years. I wasn't talking about how I got someplace. Because that could go on forever. Oh, my God. So you're doing all right.

And you and Lana are are friends yes matter of fact uh we're going uh next week the 20th um alex and i and mark and joanna going up to uh boston for the comedy festival and mark and i are going to be judges oh yeah just yeah to go up there yeah it's nice up there. He was very funny, like, years ago when I was a lot more angry, you know, I did some set at your club, and, you know, I was up there storming around, and it was clearly not a great set. And I got off, and Lon now said, it's very uplifting.

He can be a little sarcastic, yes. But the weird thing is, is I read the book, you know, I read both Zoglin's book, and I read the I'm Dying Up Here. Yeah. And I tell you, I just had no, because I'm only, I'm 49. So I don't have any context of what you guys were like when you were young. And, you know, and just, it's hard for me to ever imagine you guys as young men. And not in a bad way.

But I mean, like, you know, when things, when you were at the beginning of something. Yeah, right. Yeah. And, you know, and his, like, you know, like, yeah. And, you know, what he comes from in his place, like he was sort of on the periphery of the strike, and his wife was. He and his wife were very involved in the strike. Yeah, and he said something about Mitzi at the end of that book

that was taken from testimony. It was so genius. And it's just so amazing to me that, like, you know, Jay Leno and Dave Letterman, all these guys were 22, 23-year-old guys's amazing who were insecure and but it was like the beginning of rock and roll here I mean you were the you were the source of it yeah and there was that changeover from the old guard I mean you know what you know what's your relationship with them I see pictures of the improv you know Shecky Green Buddy Hackett and those guys but they were done right

I mean by the time you started. Oh, yeah. They were very well established. They were semi-retired or mostly retired. But I was a member of the Friars. I met all these guys, these legends. Milton Berle and Jan and Shecky and Buddy Hackett. Did you see them when you were younger at all?

Did you ever do the hills? Oh, sure. I worked at Catskills for years. Yeah? Doing what? I did everything, Lifeguard, Boat Boy, Waiter, Bus Boy, Stagehand. So you saw all those comics?

Yeah. Joey Bishop tipped me a dollar once, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you have those memories. Yeah. But isn't it interesting how there's such a shift in the style of comedy and when stand-up

became its own thing as opposed to just those guys? Yeah, those are the guys who, you know, a handful of guys who were names who could headline.

But for the most part, there are two aspects I feel that I've changed in the world. And that is, comics were no longer opening acts. Right.

You know, besides those guys, they became comedy stars that I've changed in the world, and that is comics were no longer opening acts. Right. Besides those guys, they became comedy stars. And two, because of me, comics started to get laid. I'm talking about rock and rollers. They never got laid before that. That's right, and that was a big driving force, and the improv was like a... And that was the other thing. I could measure a comic's potential by-huh by how successfully was with the women yeah who were

who were some richard lewis robin williams that before when he's completely unknown and jay leno oh yeah yeah they were coxman oh yeah i just you were like those are the guys i said this guy's gonna be great well thanks for making the Schwepp, bud. All right. Good talking to you. I hope I get home. Yeah, we'll figure it out. I saw a little hotel down the street.

I'll wait till daylight. We'll set you up in Pasadena.