WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1003 - Tal Wilkenfeld

Episode Date: March 21, 2019

The word prodigy gets thrown around a lot, but if Tal Wilkenfeld isn’t one then the word has no meaning. Tal tells Marc how she never even saw a person play guitar until she was 14 years old. Thanks to encouragement from her grandfather, she started playing as a teenager and immediately stunned professional musicians with her natural talents. Tal explains how her career took off in part because of a viral video of her bass solo in a Jeff Beck concert, how she wound up playing with artists like Herbie Hancock, Prince, and Mick Jagger, and why she often didn’t know who these famous people were as they introduced themselves to her. This episode is sponsored by What We Do in the Shadows on FX, Squarespace, and Stay Free: The Story of the Clash on Spotify. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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T's and C's apply. Lock the gates! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron.

This is my podcast, WTF. How's it going? Tal Wilkenfeld is here, and she's a genius bass player. I don't know if you know her, but she's played with Jeff Beck, Herbie Hancock. She's played with everybody. She's just a wizard, and she's amazing, and she's got a new record out called Love Remains. It's great, and it's available now wherever you get your music, but she's very young, and she's just a prodigy, I guess you would call it. Is that the word? Not protege. That's the other word, prodigy. But she's also a human, and she just has this gift. She's a gifted person, and was uh excited to talk to her because uh she's been hanging around comedy clubs for a while she likes comedy she was always a

a friend of the comics and you know she she hangs out i've played uh music with her but i used to see her around it was funny when i first saw tall when jeff ross introduced me to her she said she was a musician and like really in my mind i was like okay yeah not totally dismissive but uh yeah you know just a little bit snide and condescending i just thought another singer-songwriter in los angeles turns out she's a fucking genius but also you know outside of that she's going to play a song at the end uh in the garage now as you know if you listen to the show if you listen to this part of the show i've had to move into my house uh to like it's a real you know it's a real scene up here in this spare bedroom i'll tell you but uh tall is going to play a song and then after that instead of me playing my guitar noodling we're going to play a very organized bit of business.

We're going to sort of do the world premiere of the song that Tal and I wrote. And she produced from the new Lynn Shelton film, Sort of Trust. You'll be able to see the film eventually. But, you know, it premiered at South by Southwest. So I want to play this song. I want to play you the song that I wrote with Tal. And I was in the studio. I was in the studio with the likes of Zach Ray and Tamir Barzilay and Jimmy Z Zavala, the harp player, and Doyle Bramhall and Tal and me on guitar feeling very insecure.

I mean, brutally like, yeah, I shouldn't be doing this. Just let Doyle do it. But we did it. And the song is called New Boots. And it will be at the tail end of this broadcast, if you're interested in it. It's a riff on the Bo Diddley groove. And obviously, I didn't write a symphony. It's basically a hopped-up blues number.

But I did come up with the progression. And oddly, I riffed the original harmonica part, which stayed the riff. But, you know, the harp player, he's a wizard, that Jimmy. And he did it correctly. But look forward to that. That's going to happen for you if you stay on board throughout the entire show. Also, last year, one of my guests was a comic I've known for a long time, Vanessa Hollingshead. She was on episode 922 telling her story.

It's a brutal story, but it turns out okay. And now she's done her first Showtime comedy special, and that's airing this Saturday. And it's a great thing. She's got a hell of a tough tale to tell in her personal life. And she really came out of it on top. She's alive, and she still works a lot, and she's funny. The show, the special, it's called Funny Women of a Certain Age. It's the first TV comedy special featuring six women all over the age of 50.

It's hosted by Fran Drescher and it's on Saturday night, March 23rd at 9 p.m. And our friend Vanessa is on that. And congratulations to her. It's a tough road, man. It is a tough road, man. It is a tough road, and I've got dates coming up, and I've got one coming up this Saturday, this Saturday night at the Wheeler Opera House in Aspen, Colorado,

and I'm a little tweaked about it, and I'm just trying to dig into my guts, where the sad tugging is, and figure out why am I tweaked out about it? At what point? Well, let's get into that in a minute. Let me just tell you where else I'm going to be. Boulder's sold out, but the UK dates, I think, some are still available. The Lowry at Salford, England on April 4th.

Royal Festival Hall is available April 6th in London. The Rep Theater in Birmingham, England, April 8th. I think there's tickets for Vicar Street in Dublin on April 11th. There might be a few. I'm not sure. But Aspen, Colorado. Why am I tweaked out about Aspen, Colorado? It took me a while to track it because I, you know, the deal is that, you know, it's not a normal town.

It's a ski town. And tickets were moving okay, but they were like, don't worry about it. Everyone buys their tickets the day before, the day of, when they get off the slopes. They wonder what's going on in town. And they come out if there's something going on because it's a ski town and that's what you do. You kind of hold up up there and you go to the restaurant a couple of times. You go do a thing, but it's a laid-back environment, and if there's a big show in town, even if you don't know who

the guy is, why not go? It's right down the street, and we're here in Aspen. Fine. I am not the kind of comic that has any problem performing for strangers. I'm more than happy to have a following. I'm glad that people pay to a following. I'm glad that people pay to see me. I'm not afraid of working for people that don't know my work. That's how I trained. That's what we do. That's what the job is. You go in and you should be able to make a room full of strangers who don't know who you are laugh. That's the job. So that's not really what's bothering me. Obviously, I want to sell tickets. But then I started to realize, So that's not really what's bothering me.

Obviously, I want to sell tickets. But then I started to realize, holy shit, I've been to Aspen a lot. And some of those times were not good times. And I think I'm no psychologist or psychiatrist, but I believe there's the far end of the spectrum the the tragic and intense cases revolving around war and assault and uh you know all all kinds of horrible things but there's also the more mild i think uh comedy specific ptsd which is like did you go to that place before and just fucking tank did you just fucking die did you bomb badly and you know is that stuck in your heart somewhere as a precedent there's that kind of ptsd and that that i got i think i got a little of that i think i got a little of that in aspen this is also a big pitch for my show.

If you're in Aspen, you might want to come see if I can, you know, pull myself out of the personal swamp of past trauma and rise to the occasion, which I will. I know I will. But I did have to feel like, you know, I did have to sort of dig a little deep to figure out why, you know, my my my chest is tightening over the idea of it. Every time I've gone up there back in the day was a struggle, man, was a struggle because it used to be the HBO Aspen Comedy Festival. It was the biggest festival that you could be invited to.

comedy festival. It was the biggest festival that you could be invited to. And the first year I went there, I was a guy holding a mic for Comedy Central. I did a couple of sets and I was younger and I just like, the places were filled with about a third of the people were in show business. A third of the people were locals. Another third of the folks were just ski people i psych myself out that was the first year and then the next year i went back with jerusalem syndrome so i'm doing a one-man show at a comedy festival i was used to doing it you know in a theater with lights and cues and everything i didn't have them and again third of the people show business some locals some ski people watching me do this jerusalem syndrome it went okay but there was nothing relaxed about it and i think that same year that was the year that uh you know that

alternative comedy or what we were calling alternative comedy was very popular or it was at least a thing and comedy central did a special called Kicking Aspen. That night in that room, and I believe it's the same fucking room that I'm going to play on Saturday, the Wheeler Opera House, where we shot Kicking Aspen, or as my old friend Ross Broccoli said, Dragging Aspen. I remember exactly the decisions I made and how it went. I was doing shows at the Luna Lounge in New York. I was doing story-driven stand-up, which I still do, but I'm good at it now.

And in my mind at that time, it didn't have to be punchline efficient. You just had to lock in and be carried by the tail and get the laughs where they came. And I chose these longer pieces that I loved, that looked good on paper, but I went out there and just ate it. I mean, nothing. There is a silence when you're bombing that is inexplicable there's almost like a vacuum to it these jokes are just going out and they just land not even with a thud they just they they sort of get sucked into a silence that is simultaneously with each beat that is supposed to get a laugh as it gets sucked into the silence some sort of weird circuitous energy comes and starts just crushing your heart from the inside

with each joke that goes out into the ether and just gets sucked in and what comes back is this this clenching in your chest in your heart and you're like ah another one didn't work yeah sometimes you know if you get good enough at the thing you know after years of experience you can sort of unfuck yourself from a bomb in motion by uh you know drawing attention to it or changing direction you know when you don't have the skill set to either absorb a failure like that or worm your way out of it through charm or diversion, all you know is that it's happening and it's going to keep happening and you're in it and it's not going to stop and you're just going to have to ride it out. It's almost like some part of your,

your personality just shuts down and you're just up there and you feel it. There's no lonelier feeling. I think really in my experience, but I'm willing to bet in a lot of people's experience and to be in front of a crowd and you're there to get laughs, and you're not getting none. You're getting the opposite, which isn't, as you would think, booze. It's just the sort of vacuum of silence. But maybe that's just me. Maybe that's just part of the job, folks, just part of the job. But I think perhaps that's one of the reasons i'm a little tweaked

about going to aspen but there is the possibility of victory there is the possibility i'll go and you know these last 15 years yeah i've learned something and it'll be fine which i'm sure it will it might even be great but uh somewhere lodged in the back of my brain, not so much the back, seems to be right up front, or in one of the chambers of my heart, is me standing on that stage getting nothing. Getting nothing. So yeah, so that's one of the things nagging me.

And then I had this other realization. It's not nagging me, but you know, i i god can't i just let myself be happy huh can't i just let myself do it god damn it there's there's no reason not to be and i started thinking about this show about my own capacity for relationship for intimacy like you guys listen to this show i honestly talk openly more openly about myself and my heart in a way that is embracing and open and vulnerable and candid with people that come in here. And I'm not going to see them again. But I started thinking about who I was when I was a kid. And this is like, I don't know.

I wouldn't put this in the PTSD spectrum but it's a weird thing when I was younger I was a funny kid so I kind of had a sort of I kind of floated in between different cliques in high school because I wasn't identified

with any one clique and I sort of had a sense of humor but there were times where the other thing about having a sense of humor but there were times where the other thing about having a sense of humor and being an oddball is just that you know you want to hang out with the cool kids whoever the hell they are and you know you watch enough after school specials you realize maybe they're not so cool or you grow up and you realize no one's that cool and especially not in high school or junior high but but there is this idea that you know you want to be one of them you hang out with them so i would you know make them laugh and talk to them and you know try to be their friends and then i'd you know you'd hang out with

them for once and then you just wonder if you're ever going to hang out with them again or you know why they why they didn't call you back or how come they don't want to hang out with you anymore and i wonder if there's some part of me a a little part of my heart that just keeps reopening that wound every time I have someone over. But of course not. Because I have a place in this business. And I'm not saying I want to hang out necessarily with everybody that comes in here. But I've definitely had some pretty amazing people in here, and I think there must be part of me that thinks like,

why can't I be friends with them? And then they come and we talk, and I'm like, that was fun hanging out. I'm never going to talk to you again unless I run into you at a show of some kind. We're not going to be friends. I wonder if there's just a little touch of heartbreak you know after everybody i talk to individually leaves my home i wonder if it's down there i wonder if i'm overthinking this so tall tall wilkenfeld the wizard the bass wizard uh she's amazing and you know as i said earlier i met her at the comedy

store and uh you know we have since played together a couple times and uh we played a song together that you can hear at the end of this a song we wrote together and played with a group of musicians uh she has a new record out it's called love remains it's her new album it's available now wherever you get your music. And this is me and Tal having a nice chat. Enjoy it. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that.

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So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. So let's go back because I've got to understand some things. I was a little insecure about you coming over. Why insecure? Because, I mean, like, look at my setup. Like, you're in studios all the time, and I've got this rinky-dink setup. I can't even hook up my guitar pedals properly.

You know, you've played with a lot of amazing musicians, myself being one of them. Of course. Me, Jeff Beck, Herbie Hancock. i'm glad to be part of that list um but when i worked with you in the studio it was like sort of i knew nothing and you knew everything so like i do sound you know but i just do talk sound but i was still like you know you're a professional right well you're you're a professional conversationalist i I know. I know. So I'm completely a fish out of water here. Yeah, but-

So we're even now. Okay. Fine. So you grew up where? Sydney. In Sydney, in the city. Still growing up, but- Big city.

But you're no child. No. You look like a child, but you're not a kid. No, I just mean I- Yeah. I know. i know what always evolve i know i know i listen to the record you seem to be wrestling with some things you got you having a you're having a rough go at the emotional business did you right oh i don't know. Come on. Clearly, you got... Like, I've talked to songwriters before, and I always assume they're writing about themselves,

and most of them tell me they're not, but this seems like a personal record. Like, you're writing from your point of view. You're not making up fictional characters' voices. I'd say, like... I can't say, like, 100% or or zero percent like it's varying degrees for each song Yeah, like yeah, like it may start off like with an experience in my life and then as I start writing the song I'll adapt it to a story that best fits the concept of what I'm trying to say

All right, and or it could happen the other way around I might watch a movie and be inspired to write a song based off of that narrative. Right. And then it comes sort of, I find a way for it to seep into one of my experiences that I've had in the past. Right. So it's like a melting pot of experiences. Did that happen? Did you see a movie and write a song that was-

Many times. Really? Yeah. Did that happen? Did you see a movie and write a song that was... Many times. Really? Yeah. Like what movies? I watch like a lot of old classics. Yeah? Like which old classic movie launched a song?

I don't remember now because I do it often. Wait, you just watch part of a movie or watch the whole movie? Actually, I have a habit of like turning on a movie and watching it for 20 minutes, pressing pause and writing. Really? Yeah, no, I do it all the like turning on a movie and watching it for 20 minutes, pressing pause and writing.

Really? Yeah. No, I do it all the time. And it's just the dialogue or the situation or? It could be either of those things or it could be just visually what I'm seeing or how it emotionally, you know, stimulates me. But you can't remember any of the movies? I mean, I remember some of them, but I couldn't say like, oh, it was definitely Taxi Driver that made me write so-and-so song. But that was an inspirational one?

I love Taxi Driver. Sure, who doesn't love Taxi Driver? But what, are you going to write a love song? Well, I think I did write a few. Failed love songs. Failed love songs inspired by Travis Bickle's Journeys Through Life. Well, that's sweet. journeys through life.

Well, that's sweet. I'm sure Scorsese and Paul Schrader and De Niro would be happy to know that they've inspired some love songs. That was probably part of their intention. Sydney, Australia, I've been to. I went to Bondi, is that how you say it? Yeah. Bondi Beach. I swam in the ocean pool.

In that pool that's right on the beach? Yeah. Yeah, that was nice. Cool. Did you swim there? Yeah, when I was a kid. Only when you were a kid? Yeah.

But it's like ocean water, right? Mm-hmm. It's nice. You know, when I was about, I guess, 13, 14, it's when I started getting into figuring out what my passion was. Right. And I was definitely into sports well before I was into music. When you were a kid?

Yeah, well, I only picked up guitar at 14. Well, let's see. So you have brothers and sisters? No. You're the only child. I'm the only child. Of the Sidney Wilkenfelds. Yes.

You're Jewish. Is there a big Jewish community there? Yeah. Did you grow up in, a Jew-y? Yeah. You did? Pretty much.

Like how Jew-y? Like, like, like we go to shul weekly or not twice a year like the rest of us? Um, I ended up being somewhere

in the middle. Uh-huh. But your family's religious? Uh, my grandparents are. And they're your family's religious? My grandparents are. And they're in Sydney as well? Were religious. Yes. Or they were?

How did the Jews of Sydney end up there? They're there for many generations? I mean, there's a huge South African community that came over in the 90s after what happened there. And there's- Which what happened? Yeah. Which one?

There's a lot of- Then there's a lot of people that came from Europe. Right. All my grandparents, all four of them are from Eastern Europe. Oh, okay. So that was one of the sort of like, let's get the fuck out of here. We'll go to Australia. So you're like, they your grandparents moved there from

europe or wherever yeah yeah oh that's interesting so they made a choice to go to australia as opposed to america yeah or anywhere else in the world australia is a weird place to go kind of but i guess they were like it's wide open and there's no nazis there let's go there. My grandpa's a Holocaust survivor. Really? Yeah. He escaped when he was 12. From a camp? Well, right before everybody else, like his mom and siblings were taken to camps.

He escaped right before. Oh my God. And. How'd he do it ran ran with a bunch of friends for many months and i mean he has a whole story that's fascinating and and he he's one of my biggest inspirations is he around still he actually just passed away during the making of this album i actually actually dedicated my album to my family members because both of my grandparents passed away

and also a lot of good friends of mine. They all passed away? Yeah, in the past few years, I've lost a lot of people in my life. Really? Like about 20. Oh, my God. Well, I mean, grandparents you know you kind of understand they they're gonna go yeah it's just just strange timing to lose a lot of people

when you're doing a record yeah quickly yeah that's how i got into comedy was was like just losing a lot of friends suddenly yeah and uh one of my friends suggested that I go and see some live comedy in where you were here yeah this was only a couple years ago and that's when he started showing up at the store yeah how did your grandfather inspire this record in sense in his story well it wasn't so much that he inspired this record it was that he he bought me my first guitar. Oh, yeah? Firstly, when I was 14.

And when I was 16 and I told my parents, hey, I want to leave Australia and go to America, you know, as some parents would feel nervous. Yeah. I looked at my grandpa and he's like, and I said, you've been on your own since you were 12 and you've inspired me to be independent and take care of myself and this is what I want to do.

And he gave me the thumbs up. He did? Go ahead. Go ahead. How old was he when he did that? Like 80? Yeah, maybe 70 something. Wow old was he when he did that? Like 80? Yeah, maybe 70-something. Wow.

So he was the one guy? Your parents were nervous, but he was like, go for it? One of my parents was more nervous than the other, but I think that, I mean, all's good now. Well, yeah. I was so young. It's a normal reaction. Yeah. When your daughter-

16-year-old girl. Your only daughter, your only child wants to run away to America with a guitar bag. Right. Yeah. But before that, you were just, what, playing soccer and stuff? I was playing touch football. I was into watching rugby. Yeah.

I was really into long-distance running. You did that? Obsessed with long-distance running. You used to do that? Yeah. Do you run now? Like in the gym. Right, that's what I mean, but you do?

Yeah. Yeah. But like it was a thing for me. Like before music, running was my thing. That was your goal. You were going to be a runner. Yeah, there was like, I remember doing these really long distance runs

and there was especially like one competition that was you know i think it was like five mile or whatever it was a really long run and there was one girl that i was like i just need to beat this one girl because apparently she was the best right right and so i went and uh i did this long run and and i beat her oh good and as a result i went and like i was so excited. I was celebrating and jumping up and down and I hurt my back. So I couldn't run

for a few weeks. Because of your celebratory dance? Right. So I was like, what am I going to do now? And I'm walking or hobbling along in my school

and I see a guitar hanging in one of the rooms. You'd never played one before? No. I'd never even seen anybody play a guitar hanging in one of the rooms. Yeah. You'd never played one before? No. I'd never even seen anybody play a guitar. Come on.

How old were you? 14. And you'd never seen someone play a guitar? Were you being held in a basement? Well, I didn't really grow up

with music or TV. Like, it was in a very sheltered situation. No TV? I mean, I wasn't really allowed to watch TV because, you know, my parents had been divorced as I was two years old. Okay.

So I only really grew up with my mom. Okay. And my grandparents. Okay. Like they both kind of raised me, go back and forth. But you knew your dad, he was around. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. me uh go back and forth but you knew your dad he was around yeah yeah okay yeah um and uh and my mom was just really into academia okay like she wanted me to be a doctor or a lawyer or something like that was she in academia no not really okay and so like i asked over and over if i could play guitar and it was i no many, many times. This was after I'd walked past a guitar at the school. Not before that, just after you... No, no, once I saw it because I had my eye on it and I actually grabbed it, I picked it up

and I somehow played a chord and tears started rolling down my face. And I started writing a song and I felt like it wasn't me even playing it really it was really spiritual you played a chord yeah do you know in retrospect do you know what chord it was i don't know how did you figure out a chord you're saying this was some sort of divine intervention it it felt like that it did it really did yeah and i i went home and i can i play can i play and eventually the agreement was okay you can play only after you do all your homework and maybe

you'll do be allowed to play for half an hour a day yeah like only if you do the it's like okay okay sure sure so when did you get the guitar? When did your grandfather get it for you? Weeks later I got one. You told your grandfather you wanted one? Yeah. And he gave you one? Yeah, he got one. What kind was it? It was like a package for like, you know, maybe $150

and you got like a really cheap Fender Squire or something like that. Oh, it came with the amp? With the amp and strap and picks or something. Right, sure. It was, it was yeah oh yeah bargain yeah sure um like a Stratocaster style sort of yeah yeah yeah and I bought that same package for my niece oh nice so I I guess what that did was you know when you when you have that kind of restriction like you got to play half an hour a day it incentivized me to teach myself how to learn quickly and absorb information fast and it also taught me how to practice in my head without an instrument hmm so even though I only had

an instrument my hand for half an hour a day i'd be playing in my head all the time so were you how were you you so you didn't take any lessons i did i there was a teacher at the school and i that was part of my request was like can i have lessons oh okay yeah um and and he's like with the first thing like he showed me a few chords right um and And there was another girl that started at the same time as me. Yeah. And I guess she quit like four weeks later because she was upset with my progress compared to her. She was comparing our progress. It wasn't that girl you beat in the race, was it?

No. That would have been amazing. I don't think she could take another hit, really. And who knows what would have happened with your excitement of beating her. Might have lost a hand. So he's like, well, you've learned these chords really fast. Why don't you go and teach yourself the solo to Stairway to Heaven? Without having picked any solos before,

he said, go try that. Yeah, just... He was testing whether or not you were like a wizard. Maybe, I don't know. I'd been playing for maybe three weeks or something. And did you figure it out? Yeah. And then like maybe a couple weeks after that,

he's like, can I study with you? No. I swear, it was really funny. But did you teach him? What were you going to teach him? I don't know. Did he study with you? No.

Okay. But it was flattering. It was cute. So you've impressed the teacher and he quit too. You scared one girl out of musicianship and you made the teacher quit good job you're winning all right so then what happens how do you how do you proceed from there at 14 well it was like i was technically like 14 and a half so i guess like i started you know writing songs and there was a jazz band that i i joined and I started, there was never any guitar in the jazz band prior,

but I begged. I said, like, I'll play like, you know, Freddie Green style or whatever, just like chunk, chunk. And so I did that for a little while. But where were you learning the chords exactly? Like, did you have a book? Did you just like, did they just, did you just hear them? There was like chord charts. Chord charts okay right so you could see uh the little picture and could you read music yet

no uh-huh not really i mean i could kind of figure i could figure it out not in not like sight read but i could read notes yeah right right so you're playing in a jazz band at 14 and a half with just the- Other school kids. A few lessons under your belt. Yeah. And you're just like, you can just do it. A little bit. A little bit?

I mean, yeah. I guess it's- It's sort of embarrassing because I don't really know how it exactly happened. It happened fast. It was just happening. You were like, I don't really know how it exactly happened. It happened fast. It was just happening. You were like, I can hear this, I can feel this, I can do this. Yeah. What jazz numbers was the 14?

It was just all like big band songs. I don't even remember the songs. Yeah. But like junior high big band songs. I guess. And then I started like, you know know because i hadn't heard much music yet like i really only had three cds was there no radio in australia i like i literally like i mean it wasn't part of your life it unfortunately no but that's what you're

you're telling me it wasn't so much that you were there was no one you were there was no one encouraging me to listen to music it didn't interest you there was no no it interested me before before you started playing you know like because you're making it sound like it's just like music was this alien thing and it kind of was like no before i was just into running right yeah okay. You can only handle one thing at a time. Maybe. Actually, that's probably very true about me. All your energy goes into the one thing. Kind of.

Kind of does. I get it. Yeah. So it just wasn't part of your life. I do get really mono-focused on something that I'm interested in doing. So that's, well, that's sort of fascinating. So once you kind of break open to this other plane, which is music, well that's sort of fascinating so once you kind of break open to this other plane which is music your head's sort of like just a sponge and you have a proclivity for it so you

just wanted to get as much in as possible yeah and i the three cds that i had yeah was jimmy hendrix are you experienced yeah and a herbie hancock album which one thrust uh-huh and then rage against the machine evil empire sure so it's a very eclectic it's like all you need i mean a Herbie Hancock album. Which one? Thrust. Uh-huh. And then Rage Against the Machine, Evil Empire. Sure. So it was a very eclectic. It's like all you need. I mean,

if you think about those three artists and what I sound like, it kind of sort of makes sense. Yeah. I could definitely see that. Yeah. So, I mean, I'd heard Hendrix. Right.

You know? And that's a good wide range of him even if you are like on a desert island and never hear music and someone just plays you Herbie Hancock

and Jimi Hendrix and Rage Against the Machine it'll give you quite a big vocabulary yeah I guess so so those are your records so you're learning

all those songs too I imagine I never really like learned songs like besides like me neither that's where you and i have something the chord charts yeah like i i'll learn them if someone tells me i need to learn a song for a particular purpose but like it was never part of my practice to like learn songs yeah what was your practice just a riff and it was just to like like play along with something and i'd like you know improvise

right on it yeah or make up my own stuff so you do the jazz band thing and you've got your three cds and you're playing some big band music and so who starts to turn you on to other music when do you start to like at 14 14 and a half or 15 what other stuff are you putting into your head other than those three cds there wasn't much there were a few people listening to bands like incubus and tool sure um ben harper they were popular like all the bands coming out the 90s lincoln park yeah another one but basically until i left home at 16 that's all i'd heard i hadn't heard it ben harper lincoln park tool and hendrix ingibus herbie hancock jimmy hendrix and uh and uh rage against the machine that's what that's and and my grandparents like when i was a kid, basically the only music that was played was classical or like really old school like jazz. Like big band or not even bebop actually, just like big band jazz by my grandparents on my mom's side.

Like Artie Shaw, Stan Kelton. I don't even know what they were playing because it was only literally from the car ride from home to school. That would be the only time I'd ever hear music for like 20 minutes. Full jazz orchestra.

Yeah. Uh-huh. And then, and then on my dad's side it would be like classical like Vivaldi. Oh yeah. Mozart and stuff like that.

That's not bad. So, so basically, so I had classical since I was really young. And now my family tell me that when I was three and I heard Vivaldi, I was singing along and tapping along, and I looked really musical. And then they were like, we've got to put a stop to that.

Got to nip that in the bud right now or we're gonna lose that kid they just stifled it out of the gate now after a huge success as a musician they're like we gotta tell you something we knew you were gonna be great when you were three but we tried to really stop that so at 16 though were you were you pissed off at them were you like fuck you guys i'm leaving or was it more like you know i really need to do this was it must be hard to be the only kid and have to say that to them no well again like my i didn't really grow up with my dad but i sort of we started like hanging out yeah when i was about 14. Yeah. Again, because I'd started playing guitar and he was super inspired by that. Oh, really?

So he dug it? Yeah, he loved it. Yeah. Because I was so driven to do this, I didn't want to listen to what anybody else had to say about it or how they felt about it. I was pretty determined. Uh-huh. say about it or how they felt about it i was pretty uh determined uh-huh so you know it was it was tense but after like a few years and they started seeing that i could actually have a career yeah as a musician everything kind of settled back down right but like it was definitely tense

but where'd you get the bread to to make journey? Well, I got a scholarship at a music school. Basically, like, when I told my dad that I had started guitar, he's like, yeah, I heard about this music school in America. You should check it out. Which one? It's called Llama. Uh-huh. It's like a guitar school.

Yeah. And then one of the teachers just coincidentally happened to come to australia and it worked out so that i could get a scholarship to this school you met the guy yeah how'd you meet like who set that up i went with teacher you scared away i went with my dad oh yeah oh you set up an appointment kind of thing yeah uh-huh and you sat with him in the guitar no i just met him and then and then we set up another appointment where you played yeah but you sat there it was like a lifetime with your little squire and you did your business yeah and he was like holy shit you're you're in. I got in, yeah.

And then I didn't go to class that much because basically once I moved to America, I started practicing. I went from half an hour a day to like six hours a day. And then the whole thing just opened up. Well, no, actually, I hurt my hand. I gave myself tendinitis. So they felt a little more secure we move here

because you're going to school did you have a sponsor did you have some place to live did they you know like how did that work or did they just say they have had these uh places where you where everyone lived oh dormitory yeah sort of so yeah where was the school in New York? Pasadena. Oh, it was out here? Yeah. Okay. It was in LA. Yeah, I moved to LA first. Okay.

You never went to New York? I did go to New York. Oh, but you moved here first to go to Lama in Pasadena because you met the teacher in Sydney and he was impressed. Yeah. And you get here and within months you're like, this is bullshit. I'm just going to play in my room. Well, no, actually. It wasn't that.

It was like I want to practice for six hours a day and I did that for maybe a week and I hurt my hand so I had to stop playing. Oh, man. Yeah. You quit guitar. Well, I had to stop. It hurt that much.

The doctor said like if you want to get better, you got to stop playing for a few months. So a few months. So a few months. So it's better you gotta you gotta stop playing for a few months so a few months so a few months so it's like what am i gonna do for a few months now i'm like in america yeah like and i can't really play so what am i gonna do yeah so i started like going into the drum labs and playing drums with one hand and like you know just every time i saw a bass i would kind of you know slap on it like with my right hand because my left was kind of hurting and and i and it was in that period that i decided you know what when i start playing again i think i want to be a bass player because everyone was looking at me like she's a bass player look at her look at her look how rhythmic she is on the

drums and she's slapping the bass she she's even slapping the guitar. You know, she was going for the rhythmic stuff. Like I could solo and stuff. Yeah. But I just was into groove. Yeah. And so that's when I switched to the bass at 17. The tendinitis period.

Thank God for tendinitis. Forced you to get to what you really wanted to do. I guess, yeah. So you get better and then you're a bass player. Right. You got rid of the squire. Let that go.

And you went out and got, what was the first bass you got? I actually had, it was some variation on a Fender. Then a few months later, I got a music man yeah which i liked and then i switched again because i went to uh this thing called the nam show you know the nam show right and i was playing at one of the booths and turned out to be roger sadowski's booth who i don't know if you're familiar with sadowski's i'll just pretend like i am okay good yeah he's a bass guy yeah uh-huh he makes he's a luthier uh-huh and and he saw me play and he ended up helping me get an instrument for a lower cost uh-huh because such amazing instruments yeah but he wanted you to have yeah he was very supportive of me from from a young age yeah so that and that's when i

started playing sadowski and and I played strictly that one Sadowski for about 10 years. So this is at 17 or 18? 17, yeah. You're 17 when you're at the NAMM show? Yeah. And you impress the Sadowski fella? Yeah.

Yeah, it seems like you just show up places and old men are like, holy shit. Let me make sure this young woman does whatever she needs to do to to follow her talent good for us that's good right i guess yeah so okay so you got now you got a sadowski bass you're well equipped and then when do you start playing with people okay um what happens at the school? You just disappear? You're like,

well, that girl went here for a little while and then she was hanging around the drum room and then we never saw her again. Basically, what happened was a phone call came into the school.

This is after I'd been playing for a couple months. The bass. Playing bass for a couple months. And they said, there's a drummer by the name of Vito Reza

coming to the school and we need you to select your best bass player and guitar player to accompany him because he can't bring a band. Was he coming to do a clinic or something?

A clinic. Yeah. And so they asked me, their best bass player. Who'd been playing for three months. Like two. Yeah.

And a guitar player. Yeah. A really great guitar player. Who'd been playing for three months. Like two. Yeah. And a guitar player. Yeah. A really great guitar player. And I'd started writing like really pretty complicated songs with like time signature changes and all kinds. I very quickly got into like sort of fusion music. Yeah.

Because when you're in a music school like the focus is like to become great on your instrument. I was just focused on that. And that kind of music, jazz and fusion, you need to have chops to play it. Like Herbie and Weather Report? Yeah, those are examples. Or were you just making it up?

Well, I made a lot up. Yeah. But that was the area yeah because it allowed you to be instrumental and not sort of adhere to sort of boring pop or rock structure i mean i didn't find the other stuff boring i just wanted to explore my instrument more right so it's just like a different avenue well that's that's what I think that's what fusion is all about. It's like we've got jazz. Why don't we muffle that and ruin it a little bit?

So you're doing that. So the guy comes. Yeah, and I start writing these strange songs. Yeah. So he's like, well, let's do one of your songs, and we can play like a jazz blues or whatever. Uh-huh. And maybe we played a third song.

There's the drummer. What's his name? Vito. Uh-huh. Turns out he's best friends with Vinnie Colaiuta. Do you know who that is? From Frank Zappa's band?

Yeah. That's where he started. He's a drummer as well? He's a drummer. Yeah. Yeah. And so... What happens at the gig? Let's play some of your songs and do some jazz blues yeah so we play the gig yeah and at the end

of the gig he he and i already knew who vinnie collier was because i'd heard some of this fusion music that was going around the school that everyone was freaking out about and some people were calling me mini vinny because i was playing kind of polyrhythmic drum stuff on my bass uh-huh and i i i heard some of this stuff anyway so what band was it um there was one project he did called charisma uh-huh and just some other random things that he played on because like all the drummers were obsessed with him. Right. So Vito, at the end of the show, he's like, come on, come on. And he like dragging me like towards Vinny.

Oh, who was that the thing? Yeah. And he's like, you got to meet this girl. You got to meet. And I was like really, really shy. Yeah. I was like 17 and like, you know, just just really shy i'd never met like a professional musician i mean this was all just starting to happen and i'm meeting vidi coluto who's like

everyone's like every drummer's idol yeah and i was like nice to meet you and he's like well how long have you been playing and i was like two and a half months and he's like well, we should play sometime. I'm like, yeah, yeah, we should. But then a few months after that, I decided when I, because I heard Wayne Krantz, who's another, like one of my favorite guitarists, especially in that genre. Yeah. And he was in New York. And there was a lot of great jazz happening in New York. And so I decided I want to move to New York. I'm done with LA. Yeah. Because Wayne Krantz was there. Because Wayne Krantz was there. Yeah. And Anthony Jackson was playing bass with Wayne Krantz who, you know, is Anthony Jackson's one of the greatest bass players ever. Uh huh. And I just wanted to be around that.

I wanted to be around, like, the live jazz scene. And all my heroes had done that same thing of, like, going around to five clubs a night. Who were your heroes? Well, like, Charlie Parker. Okay, right. You know? Monk.

So you'd been doing some reading and listening since you were 14. You know, getting up to speed. All in these first few months of being in America, I'm like being like saturated in all this. Yeah. Mainly jazz and fusion music. Because of that school probably and the people that were there. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. All the students. So I moved to New York and I go every Thursday night to watch Wayne Krantz play with his band, which, you know, Anthony Jackson was playing with him a lot, and sometimes Keith Carlock was playing drums, and there were different musicians that were circulating. Taylor Fave sometimes played bass. There was a whole variety of musicians.

And I started to become a little less shy, because I was pretty shy when I was in L.A. because I was pretty shy when I was in LA. So unshy enough to go up to Wayne Krantz and Anthony Jackson and introduce myself. Well, they must have seen you hanging around. I guess. And then Anthony Jackson said to me, oh, I've heard of you.

Lee Rittenour in LA, he told me about you. And I'm thinking, how did Lee Rittenour hear? The guitar player. Yeah And I'm thinking How did Lee Rittenour hear The guitar player Yeah I don't even know How he heard about me Like what But I've heard about you I've heard very good things

And I started gigging Like you know I wanted to Like you know Two three gigs a night Just as much as possible With who Any band I could find

To play That would let me play with them Like who were they Some of them Random I don't even remember Any of their names now all the time. Any band I could find to play, that would let me play with them. Like, who were they, some of them? Random, I don't even remember any of their names now.

You were just sort of a jazz bass player for hire in New York. Yeah, but it wasn't even jazz music, it was every kind of music that was going on

in New York. So anyone who needed a bass player and they didn't want a tour necessarily, you'd sit in and do it. Yeah, I was there.

Yeah. Yeah. I was starting to make a living as a musician. Yeah. Instantly. What happened with Andy Jackson? So then he started showing up to like every one of my gigs and sitting in the front row. Yeah.

I'm like, I'm sure other people are like, oh my God, Anthony Jackson's sitting in the front row. Was he just trying to fuck with your head? He was trying to show me support. Oh, good. It was kind of like a mentorship. Isn't that weird how I always assume it's like, what's he doing? Must have made you nervous. No.

Oh, wow. I was just happy. Yeah. Oh, that's nice. I mean, because he was really supportive. Yeah. Like, we never once picked up the bass together. Yeah.

He would just sit in his car with me which i've heard is a thing with anthony jackson like apparently like steve gad has told me and vinnie has told me all these people have told me that basically anthony likes to sit in his car and have conversations okay that's that's anthony jackson's thing right so he'd sit in the car with me and we'd talk about music and we'd listen to records yeah and he said it was very interesting how they played that there and not there and what did you think about that uh part right there what would you have done yeah and like just asking me quizzing me yeah musically and like that was my my main study was just conversations sitting with anthony jackson in his car yeah it wasn't like we never

like sat down with with two basses and played. But it made you think about things differently. I mean, honestly, I think that I was already thinking like that. Yeah. But it was obviously amazing to have someone of his caliber. Yeah. To talk about these things with. Yeah.

And like, there'd be things I'd say, he'd say. It was just a really nice conversation. Yeah. And yeah, I'm sure i learned a ton from that and and also what was was nice was you know i i don't think that it was kind of hard to be taken seriously as like a really young looking girl like yeah you know people say i still look young now. Like I looked like a 12 year old. Yeah. And so, and he would always be like, just, just no matter what, just don't give up. And you know, and he's like, as Steve Gadd used to tell me on your worst day, you're still a bad motherfucker.

And that's what I have to say to you, Tal, on your worst day, you're still a bad motherfucker. And you say that over and over and over again. So he was great. And then he eventually told Wayne Krantz about me, who was like my favorite, like absolutely my favorite. And I told Anthony, you know, like, I really want to make a record. I've written these songs. I think it'll help me get some gigs you know it just i've i've written like i don't know seven eight nine songs yeah do you think that like

wayne kranz would would you know he's like well just just ask him and so and i did and he said yes to play on the record? you know let's play sometime but i i feel like i'm i'm a little bit just i feel nervous right now and he's in la and i'm in new york and he's like yeah use keith i'm like yeah well i love keith he's great so he said okay well uh made the intros and and they all agreed to make this record with me yeah awesome um so i made this record uh in a studio in New York. Yeah. And around about the same time, like within a few months, I was also, Derek Trucks and Oteel Burbridge,

who were both playing with the Allman Brothers, they saw me play. At one of your gigs. Yeah. Yeah. And invited me to sit in with the Allman Brothers. Yeah. They saw me play. At one of your gigs. Yeah. Yeah. And invited me to sit in with the Allman Brothers one night. Right. And it was mainly Oteel that was like,

I'm just going to, you know, just one night during the middle of like Elizabeth Reed, I'm just going to throw you my bass or you can just go and plug in yours and that'll be that. Yeah. So i'm like okay i've never played on a stage before i've just played in these like on these club gigs right and uh and and so one night you know i guess i was maybe i was like 19 but at this point yeah he just walked off the stage yeah he's like, go. Yeah. You're in the wings?

Yeah, I'm in the wings. I go up and we started playing Elizabeth Reed. And I don't even think that everyone in the band knew this was going to happen. Like Greg Allman was like, oh, there's this girl on the stage. Who's this? And next thing I know, see otil he's walked into the audience and he's just like smoking a joint in the audience just watching me yeah like yeah and i start playing this song and it turns into like this 40 minute version of elizabeth reed at which point like i guess after about 25 or 30 minutes the whole band walks off the stage and it's just me and the bass playing solo bass for about four minutes because

this is what they did in elizabeth reed they let the bass do a solo oh you didn't know that i did know that yeah and i was ready for it to happen. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. But the band, half of the band didn't know that I was going to be doing this. Right. But O'Teal just- Set it up.

Yeah. Yeah. So then the drums joined back in and I continued soloing over the drums. Yeah. And that was that. And- Great night though. It was an amazing night.

Like, just at the Beacon Theater, it was my first show ever. Like, how does that happen? How did the crowd react? Yeah, like, they went nuts. I couldn't believe a 12-year-old played the bass like that. So here I am, like, I guess I'm, like, 19, and I have a record under my belt and a recording of me with the Elmer Brothers,

and they asked me back to play with them a couple times after that happened. So I guess I did okay. Yeah. And then I decided, you know what, I've done, you know, I'd sort of played with these various jazz musicians. There was some other people that I'd met in New York. Like, there was one musician. Do you know Robert Glasper?

No, should I? Yeah. No, I don't know him. Amazing piano player. And, like, I remember going up to him and asking the same thing. Like, hey, do you mind playing my music with me? Yeah. And he agreed, you know, which was really nice of him

because he'd never heard me play before. And him and a guy named Nate Smith played drums with me. Yeah. And he agreed, you know, which was really nice of him because he'd never heard me play before. And him and a guy named Nate Smith played drums with me. But people know you at this point. I guess they know me,

but they, like, I'm just fresh on the scene. Yeah. Some people were really like, you know, there were other musicians that were really hard on me. They didn't want to hear me play

or, you know. They just weren't They didn't want to hear this 12 year old girl play the electric bass and in a jazz club where it's only supposed to be upright bass and you know what i mean like some people gave me a hard time but there were people like robert glasper and nate smith and you know and the like that were really really nice to me and like played my music with me and were very encouraging. So that's nice. And then I decided I wanted to go back to LA.

Why? So because I had then discovered, you know what, like that's the place where like the industry is. That's where like all the gigs are, like the real gigs, not like the playing in clubs for a hundred bucks a gig thing. Like I wanted to do some like some other kinds of gigs. And so I went back to LA. At a certain point, I'm like,

I really should call Vinny now that I'm back. Yeah. And I did. I said, hey, I'm back in LA and I have this new record. Is the one you did with Wayne Krantz or the one you did with Nate? The one with Wayne Krantz.

Yeah. And I had this thing with the Allman Brothers and is it cool, like, could I maybe play you this stuff? And he said, cool. So we like met like at a Starbucks or something. And I played him the music and he's like, wow. He was very impressed. He's like, let's get together and play.

So I met up with him and we had a jam, I don't know, for maybe 45 minutes. Just bass and drums? Just bass and drums. Yeah. I guess he wanted to just see if I could hang. Keep up. Yeah. And he was very supportive.

And he was, you know, very supportive. And maybe like a few weeks later, I get this call from Vinny saying that Jeff Beck was looking for a bass player for this one gig. And Pino couldn't make it. Yeah. It was for Eric Clapton's Crossroads Festival. Sure, the benefit festival for the drug rehab. Yeah. Yeah. All the guitar players go.

Right. Yeah. So he's like, can you send the management your material, like the All My Brothers thing and the album, just what you played to me yeah send it send it over and so i did and uh and i got the call that like they want to audition me in england jeff does yeah jeff beck yeah so i like i quickly learn all of his stuff because i had i wasn't really familiar with his music yet uh so i learned like all of this. I like looked through the set list and saw what he was

playing and learned maybe like 25 songs. And this is one of the funniest stories of my career, actually. So I'm really hungry as we're about to get on the plane. It's me and Vinny. Yeah. And we're going to play with Jeff Beck. In London. Yeah. Yeah. Because I think he may have had some other gigs up his sleeve but who back yeah yeah but he didn't mention them it was just the crossroads so i'm saying i'm really hungry i need some i want some

pizza or something he's like why don't you just eat on the plane i'm like no no i'm i'm really hungry now okay okay so we went to wolfgang park sure and uh i ordered a chicken pizza like yeah i don't know barbecue chicken yeah and i ate like two or three slices and we're on the plane and vinnie starts talking about you know he vinnie's uh very passionate about politics and and he was just raving on about something or other and And I'm just sitting there listening to him. I'm like, hey, Vinny, I'm feeling kind of sick right now. And he's like, oh, really? Well, anyway, so then this happened and da-da-da,

and he goes back to his story. And I said, excuse me, and I grab a bag and I throw up in the bag and I hold the bag up next to my head. I say, there it is. He's like, there what is? There what is? And I said, oh, I just threw up in the bag. I'll see you in about 10 hours. Ran to the bathroom and literally going the whole flight.

Oh, my God. It was terrible. Food poisoning. Yeah. Terrible. Food poisoning. Yeah. To the point where by the time the plane landed, I basically fell down the stairs of the plane, like onto my knees, started throwing up again. And an ambulance took me and then Vinny was obviously coming with me.

Yeah. We bypassed immigration and went straight to the hospital. It was so funny. I get to the hospital. It was so funny. I get to the hospital. Jeff Beck's manager is there. He's like, oh, Willa, nice to meet you. I've already got a drip in my arm at this point. He's like, I'll come in the morning and collect you.

Vinny got checked into a hotel down the street. I get picked up at like 7 a.m. I'm like, pretty. Did it pass? Yeah, it was. Yeah, but I still felt really weird the next day dehydrated and fucked up yeah so he's like okay we'll we'll drive now to to jeff's okay so it's like three hours in a car and i'm feeling so i we knock on the jeff's door and it's like right oh well let's go let's go and play some music i'm'm thinking like, oh, I thought we're going to just hang out for a second.

I could unwind. No, it was straight up to the roof or this top floor where he sets all his stuff up. And we'll play. And so we started playing. And it was fine. It was great. It was immediate chemistry. And he points to me during the Stevie Wonder song he does called Cause We've Ended As Lovers.

And he says, solo. And so I start soloing on it. And he was like really into it. So he kept that in his set. So not only did I get hired for the Clapton show, but he kept the solo in the show and then booked a whole tour that I was then a part of. And I was playing this solo every night. And, you know, that there was a video that went around of me playing a solo on that song at Crossroads and then again at Ronnie Scott's club a few months later. And that kind of got a

lot of attention online and pretty much became like another calling card because from that, Herbie Hancock called me to do live at Abbey Road with him and Prince saw that and that's how Prince called me. And I started getting a lot of gigs from people seeing that video. Wow. Yeah. But you're confident at this point, obviously you've got chops, you've got road experience now. Yeah. I mean, I'd been playing bass for like two years at this point, obviously you've got, you know, you've got chops, you've got road experience now. Yeah. I mean, I'd been playing bass for like two years at this point.

But I mean, but you know, in, in the big picture, that's okay. But, but, but still like two whole years,

but you, you, whatever it is, you know, this, this gift that you have enabled you to sort of really kind of, uh, do the exploring you wanted to do and gain the confidence that you needed to

to show up for these things without being intimidated right yeah I mean I actually think that the fact that I didn't grow up listening to you know I didn't grow up with the Stones right with Dylan even or you know Jeff Beck and i didn't grow up listening to these musicians so when i was meeting them and performing with them i treated them like my peers right like obviously i was thoroughly impressed with their musicality but i wasn't looking at them as people that like i'd read about in a book or had seen on TV. There were just people I'd be meeting like, oh, wow. Yeah.

He's a great guitar player. Right. You had no history with loving their music. Yeah. Let me just join in on the fun here. Yeah. And I think that that's what they liked about playing with me too is that I wasn't treating them any differently. Right.

Just a nice musical conversation. Right. Well, that's a very unique thing to sort of like that's where it sort of pays off to uh because i i've had that experience talking to people yeah like you know you talked to bruce springsteen about me yeah and he said that the reason he treated me differently was because i pushed him and one of the reasons was like as much as i like bruce i wasn't a bruce fanatic right like i knew bruce i you know i i like the music but i wasn't like holy shit bruce brings me so when i see a lot of these people you know other than keith richards which that that interview is probably unbearable

to listen to because i was like beside myself but like i just it was just a person. And I think that makes a big difference with those guys who, and women, who rarely get treated like that by anybody. Yeah. Yeah. I remember when I did the, I think it was the 25th anniversary Hall of Fame show. We were playing at Madison Square Garden. I guess this was in 2009. And I was playing with Jeff Beck and we were backing up Sting, Buddy Guy, a whole bunch of people. And actually that was the first time I met Bruce

Springsteen as he came up to me afterwards and was really nice to me. And there was this huge after party that happened after the show. And I remember two of my good friends came with me to this party. I had one on each arm. We were like, yeah, that was fun. Yeah, we just played Madison Square Garden, and we're going up the stairs, and this guy comes up to me like, hey, yeah, I saw you play in LA. That was a great show.

I'm like, yeah, thanks. Yeah, and I saw you play tonight again. Fantastic, fantastic. I was like, cool, thanks. I'm tall. What's your name? mick and he walks away and my friends just look at me like you you do you know who that is tall no mick jagger you know like the singer for the rolling stones oh okay come on this I have so many of these stories.

Like, I just didn't know. I wasn't... That's crazy. I didn't grow up with that music. No, I know, but you must be so, like, you're so focused. I guess. Did you ever play with Mick? Yeah.

I played with him on SNL maybe a couple years later, and it was great. And also, I did one of my favorite recording sessions ever with him, which was Ringo Starr on drums. Yeah. Jim Keltner also on drums. Dr. John on piano. And Mick Jagger playing harmonica and singing. And we all sat in a circle, and Bill Withers showed up, and we all like would sat in the circle and like bill withers showed up and we started writing a song together and then like me and mick wrote another song like

it was it was just really what album is this stuff on i don't even think it's released it was for joe walsh oh yeah for joe walsh yeah it was for joe walsh and he didn't even put it out i wonder if he will was he there yeah he was there sorry i'm like there was more people there too it was just so many but it was i think it was maybe the first time mick and ringo had done i think they were saying something about maybe it was the first time or whatever i was like oh my god but so but you know that now but then that now you were still just it was just a bunch of dudes that were playing but you knew mick at that point yeah i knew mick at that point yeah yeah now i guess like a couple of questions about this because like you're playing with these guys when you play with somebody like specifically instead of asking you you know what's it like to play with them

the most dreaded question right but i mean but when you talk in terms of like a musical conversation so if we frame it differently yeah as opposed to you you know telling me what these these artists are like you know what was the experience for you and how was it different when you play with somebody like um when you move from jeff back to herbie's band uh what you what, how does the conversation change? Hmm. How does the conversation change? Because if you're looking at it that way, and then when you like play with Bob Weir or you play with, with Dr. John, who like that crew of people, you know, historically for somebody who's a freak for that kind of music would just like blow their mind but you you know seeing you have this uh this purity due to your um i don't know it's not really ignorance but just sort of your myopia about your own work you know that your single-mindedness and you know the kind of detachment from that you're coming to it with a sort of uh an open mind that other people wouldn't

have you know going into knowing all of Dr. John's shit, right? So, like, when you play with Herbie and you're having an experience like you had, like, that moment where Beck says, you know, do the solo and you lay it out and he integrates it. So he's got to be a different type of artist in terms of how he thinks and approaches music than someone like Herbie Hancock.

You know, what is the difference for you as a bass player yeah i mean i don't know that aesthetically i could necessarily point out the differences i just know that like when you have conversations with people with that much experience yeah you're bound to pick up and integrate some of those nuances into your own playing. Right. In terms of my role as a bass player with them, that does vary according to what I think they want and what they're throwing at me. Yeah. You know, I mean...

So it's instinctual, a lot of it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It is like a conversation. Yeah. You just got to listen and then there's fits and starts like there are times where you i mean i i wouldn't say that you're going to be

hitting bad notes but where the conversation doesn't quite sync up until it does or i guess as a bass player you have a little more i i suppose if if if your role is to be a side man essentially like i'm i'm there to hopefully make them sound good and so if anybody like if if jeff would make a mistake for instance you know jeff is like the singer they always say follow the singer so if je Jeff goes somewhere else We just have to go follow him and go it's not like we're fighting for you know Spotlight or anything like that We're all just sort of trying to like lift him up right and in in times then he'll also feature us and then he's doing that

For us right, so I guess you know in a perfect world that would happen in any band too But you know the these particular ensemb, that would happen in any band too. Right. But, you know, these particular ensembles that I've been a part of, there is a lot of improvisation. Yeah. You know. And you love that. I love it. Yeah.

Yeah. And when you play with somebody like Bob Weir, the type of improvisation that you're going to do with Beck as opposed to Herbie and then as opposed to sort of the kind of like, you know, country rock, you know, slash psychedelic noodling that that that we're kind of invented. You know, what's what's the vibe difference when you play with somebody like Bob? I think that there is in in each style of music a a vocabulary that consists mainly of don'ts more than do's yeah and so you just adhere to that right yeah right so like when you're playing some sort of a you know st. Stephen or something or one of Bob's songs whatever he's up to you don't necessarily do a weather report style bass playing you kind of roll along yeah sure right i mean he's also like a really open musician

that loves hearing different approaches to his music and he he's, I mean, the first time I played with him. With Bob. Yeah, with Bob. Yeah. Was, I just went to go and watch one of his shows. Yeah. And I was just sitting in the audience. And all of a sudden the security guy points to me and says,

excuse me, ma'am, get up, get out of your seat. And I'm like, wait, I didn't do any drugs. I didn't take any photos. What did I do? Yeah. He said, come with me. And he like, he with me and he like he makes me follow him

all the way to the stage he's like do you know all along the watchtower I'm like yeah he's like you're on in three minutes

I'm like okay and like you know Bob's manager told me later he's like you know

I'm so glad you did that because some musicians when Bob does that they'll say no because they end up feel prepared because they don't feel prepared because they're put on the spot. And because you did that,

he told me how much he just loves you, that you just went along. And then he's asked me back since. He loves being off the cuff. Yeah. You know? Keeps it live. Keeps it fresh, you know?

Right, right, right. Keeps you in the present. Yeah. But I mean, I suppose the world of improvisation is very different to if I go and get called to do a session, like whether it was the sessions with Prince or it's like any other kind of project that, you know, sometimes you just had to play very simple and play for the song. Right. You know?

Right. So in the studio, it's a whole other thing. And what was that like with Prince? Amazing. Yeah. That was actually my first time recording to tape. Uh-huh. And I was surprised with how-

To tape or to, you mean tape tape? Tape tape. Like analog. Yeah. Okay. And I was surprised at how fast he works. Uh-huh. Like he likes to just like, okay, lay it down.

Like, here we go. Take one. That's it. Okay. You got a punch. Are you sure about that? Listen again. Are you sure you want to punch? Okay. Okay. Fine. You get one go. Take one. That's it. Okay. You got a punch. Are you sure about that? Listen again. Are you sure you want to punch?

Okay. Okay, fine. You get one chance. One chance. When you punch in. Yeah. Like if you want to overdub. Yeah.

Right. Replace. Replace the segment. Yeah. So, and I remember him just like, okay, you ready? I'm punching right now. That was it. Can I have enough?

No. Okay. Because it's on tape. no okay because it's on tape yeah because it's on tape but i mean you can punch multiple times on tape i mean it does wear it out every time you but i think it was more about the mindset of like let's do this and move forward and let's not just like micro focus like on all of these. I would imagine doing it on tape, you know, it does make it a little more precious. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, there's other musicians that do that and don't do that on tape. It's just, I mean,

you really need to have a discipline to do that now because you can do anything now. You can edit the shit out of anything. So it's harder to make a um a real authentic you know record that's played live like that doesn't happen that much anymore a band goes into a studio and and just cuts a record which is actually how i did my record this current record that's about to be released you did it it live? Yeah. And how was this relationship? Because I know you opened for The Who

with some of this new material and that you never played with Pete on any of his stuff, but he likes you, Townsend. Well, I played on one show which was a tribute to him and he saw me perform and after the show,

he said a couple really nice things to me in passing that was my only experience meeting him but he gave you that gig yeah i mean i don't know how much was him or the management because it was like it was a really interesting turn of events where like a month before they went on the tour, I had finished my record and I wanted to send it to him to hear if he liked the music because it was a very different direction to what anybody had known me as. Yeah.

Like people identify me as a bass player. Yeah. I was played with Jeff or whoever else, not as a singer-writer right and so i wanted to send to someone that i really respect and so i send it to p and said let me know what you think and you know kind of half joking like and if you ever need someone to open for you guys like i'd love to accept the challenge and he wrote back pretty quickly just saying like wow i love this music this is great and you know i'll send

it on to the management and see what they think in terms of opening for for any of our shows and he and he wrote some really like detailed responses to my songs like he gave me real feedback which is really nice of him yeah and then i got a phone call from his management saying you know it's your lucky day because the band that we were going to use for the first leg of the tour can't make it because of some immigration issues. So would you like to do the tour?

Yeah. And that was how that came. And what's your relationship with Jackson Brown? So I met Jackson that same night that I met Mick Jagger. At the 25th anniversary thing? Yeah, yeah. So Jackson and Bonnie Raitt came up to me after the show. And I'd actually heard of Jackson because my dad said he liked his music,

but I hadn't heard his music yet. Right. And they were both just really nice. Yeah. And I said, oh, you know, my dad loves your music. And by the way, like, I'm just starting to write songs with lyrics. And, you know, we're like, where do you live? Da-da-da.

We figured out we both live in L.A. And he said, well, we'll love to hear your music sometime. And, yeah, so, like, when I came back to L.A., I took him up on his offer and I played him some music. And after, like, some show that he was at, like, just in my offer and I played him some music. And after like some show that he was at, like just in my car, I played him some music and he gave me some advice. And then I said, I'm going to go into the studio with these people and, oh, well, let me know how that goes. Okay, cool. And so I did that and play him the music and, hey, what do you think of this song? Oh, I really like that one. Like, you know, the chorus to me says this and hey what do you think of this song oh i really like that one like you know the chorus to me says this do you think that this lyric means this

and we do that kind of same talk that i did with anthony jackson but about songwriting and not in a car sometimes in the car yeah um and uh and and I think just, he also became like, sort of like a mentor or he doesn't like me to use the term mentor because like, no, you're a peer, you know, you're a friend, like you help me too. Like I ask you about things and it's fine, you know, like mentor, you know, whatever. It's just a term, but like, he's really given me like a lot of advice and support. Um, and he does that. that's what's so amazing about him like he does he did that with blake mills he did that with a band called doors i don't know if

you know that yeah um quite a few musicians like he'll give guitars to and yeah he's such a generous guy he's got that studio we play that. Yeah, he's just showed support throughout the making of this whole album. I just find it sort of impressive and amazing, at least by how you talk about these people, that it seems that most, if not all of these men were appropriate with you. Yeah. And that's a testament to your talent and to your person and to them. Like, you know, it's not a story you hear usually, you know, usually there's gotta be a few stories where it's sort of like, oh, that guy.

Yeah. But not too many. Maybe it's because I looked like I was 12, just a little bit too young. That's where you really find out who a man is, I think. I guess they're all pretty good dudes. So the new record is you stepping to the front in a real way. Did you send me the whole record or did I just get part of it?

I sent you 10 songs. 10 songs, right. That's it. 10 songs. Reasonably length record. Yeah. Yeah. You didn't do 19 songs.

No. Yeah. And they all sound like you, but a lot of them are different in tone. Like there's some real fucking rockers. Like the opening song is like, you know, lot of them are different in tone. There's some real fucking rockers. The opening song is big. It's like rock music. And then there's some jazzier ones and some nice vocal stuff,

and your voice is beautiful. And some of it seems very personal to me, and I hope you're okay. Oh, wow. Well, no, just like relationship stuff. Wouldn't it be funny if I put the record on and I just start getting all these phone calls like, Tal, are you okay? Do you want me to bring you some chicken soup? Do you want to take a walk on the beach? It wasn't like that, but you're very sort of self-reflective and frustration in what seem like relationships and stuff is all in there. Yeah.

But how did you pick the band for this record? I did go into the studio with several ensembles. Yeah. But how did you pick the band for this record? I did go into the studio with several ensembles. Yeah. And one night I went to go have sushi with Benmont. Tench. Benmont Tench. Yeah. I've talked to him.

He's a great guy. And he invited Jeremy Stacy. Uh-huh. And then Jeremy invited his brother Paul Stacy. And I'd met Jeremy Stacy at the 2007 Crossroads Festival that I played with Jeremy Stacy and then Jeremy invited his brother Paul Stacy and I'd met Jeremy Stacy at the 2007 Crossroads Festival that I play with Who does he play with?

He plays with Sheryl Crow Noel Gallagher I mean he kind of plays with everyone Studio guy And live Yeah And

so we're having sushi Yeah And afterwards I say hey hey, do you guys, because Ben wanted to already have my music, and he'd also been another person that was very supportive. I said, do you guys want to go sit in my car and listen to some music? I'm taking on the tradition of Anthony Jackson.

And so I played them my music, and they're like, oh, this is great. I'm like, well, maybe we could go into the studio sometime. It'd be really great. I just met this guy named Blake Mills, who's an amazing guitarist. And they hadn't heard of him yet. And I said, like, just trust me. He's really great. Yeah.

Because Blake had been coming over to my house like pretty regularly. They're just like jamming, just jamming with me. And we'd also be going to Ben Mont's house almost weekly at one point, like me and Dawes and Blake and whoever else was in town. Yeah. And we'd just, like Jackson, we'd all play each other what we were working on. Like, oh, what do you think of this song? And then we'd jam on some Dylan songs or whatever.

That was happening weekly. So anyway, so I said, let's go in the studio. And so I just said, let's just do one day, two songs, try this out. And Paul as a co-producer with me and Jeremy playing drums and Blake playing guitar and I figured like everything else can just like sort of be an overdub or whatever yeah so we had we went in and cut Corner Painter which is the first song on the record yeah and another song which didn't end up being on the record and I knew right then and there that that was the song that was

going to be the linchpin for the rest of the record. And I could now go home and write other songs with that sound in mind. And so that's exactly what I did. I wrote a bunch of songs and then I called the same musicians back as well. I also called Zach Ray, who I coincidentally also met another time a few months later when I was at sushi again with Ben Mont, and Zach Ray was at a table next to us, and he recognized Ben Mont and was like,

hello, hello, hello. And I met him, and I sort of thought, I bet you that guy's a good musician. Same sushi place? Same sushi place. I called Zach up. I said, can I come by and play some songs with you yeah and i loved his playing so i brought him into the ensemble too and that was the band along with ben mont for the whole record wow it's a good bunch amazing yeah i thought

i thought the record was great oh thanks now you're like front and center and just like killing it thank you yeah i i actually when i picked up that guitar for the first time and cried and wrote a song and strummed every chord in history yeah yeah all in one all in one i i started writing songs like that's what i i actually began doing yeah and then when I moved to America. Yeah, you had to play with Jeff Beck and Herbie Hancock. Well, no, it wasn't had to. It was before those gigs. Yeah.

I started just focusing on being an instrumentalist. Right. So. You're back to this. In a sense, I was going back to my roots. Yeah, to what you wanted to do to begin with. Yeah. But with all this experience under my belt.

And amazing support. Yeah. But with all this experience under my belt. And amazing support. Yeah. Well, congratulations. Thank you. All right, you want to play something? I think so. If we can, if we can hook it up. Yeah.

We'll do it. But that's the end of the conversation part. Oh, I was just getting started. Stop it. There's a little buzz, but I'm sure with the beauty of the music, it will all go away. Is it easy to tell with the bleed in the room?

What? Like if the bass is too loud or too soft? You're talking to me like I'm an engineer and I'm just looking at a wavy thing. The wavy thing looks good. It's not peeking out. All right. This song's called Haunted Love. The queen of self-sufficiency Met an island of a man Keep away and run away now

Hand in hand. This unexpected alchemy waves upon a burning shore. I rise and crash in front of you you burn some more but no you didn't know about the ghosts left inside

of me baby no they didn't show until your love began to lift me free

and I feel guilty cause when you lie your head upon My chest You feel The beating Of my restless Heart

What used to be invisible Illuminated by a spark You guard the flame and tenderly hold back the dark But no, you didn't know About the ghosts left inside of me Did you, babe? Feeling so alone in the midst of this uncertainty. I can't help but feel guilty when you lie your head upon my chest. Upon my chest you feel the beating of my restless heart.

Racing mind. Reeling with memories that could or should have been all through the night. අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි අපි guitar solo Love, help me sleep tonight Love, help me breathe tonight Love, will you stay by my side In this love, this haunted love Wanted love Cause in the middle of the night It'll take you by surprise So will you hold me, love In this haunted love Cause in the middle

of the night It'll take you by surprise So let me hold you, love In this haunted love Yeah, double that buzz. That's so great. Only the buzz remains. Love remains. Oh yeah, love remains.

Yeah. Thanks for doing it. That was amazing right the amazing tall wilkenfeld um her new album love remains is available now wherever you get your music and uh now i if you're still here i want to uh premiere for you this is the first time it's being heard outside of anyone who saw the movie in south by southwest this is uh the song from the lynn shelton film sort of trust it runs under the credits it's uh called new boots it's written by me and tall wilkenfeld and it's uh produced by tall wilkenfeld and it features tall zach ray tamir barzillay and jimmy zala and Doyle Bramhall also on guitar so uh here's new boots Thank you. guitar solo Thank you. guitar solo Thank you. guitar solo Huh? Pretty good, right? I'm back for a second just to say, Boomer lives!

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