WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1009 - Bruce McCulloch

Episode Date: April 11, 2019

Bruce McCulloch’s characters and disposition on The Kids in the Hall would lead you to conclude he’s somewhat shy, sensitive and kind. And while that may be true now, Bruce says he was an angry young man, a drinker, a fighter. Growing up in Calgary, there didn’t seem to be much of a future for him, but improv comedy became the way out. Bruce talks with Marc about the darkness lurking beneath the Kids and why the group dissolved after making the movie Brain Candy. Bruce also talks about his friendship with the late Gord Downie of The Tragically Hip, his career behind the camera, and his new role producing and directing a sketch comedy troupe called Tallboyz. This episode is sponsored by Leesa. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global bestselling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series, streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply.

Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucksters what's happening uh this is wtf did you know what you tuned in for do you want to double check what did i do it right? I was, I was playing with a knob, but I'm in a hotel room still. I've been away so long now. I'm in Dublin, Ireland right now.

I'm sitting in Dublin in a hotel room and there's a pastry problem. Yeah. I can't even, they're just over there. I I'll explain to you a minute. Anyways, Bruce McCullough of the kids in the hall is on the show today and he is um i think there's five of them right so this will be four out of the five

all i'm missing is a mckinney uh bruce is here it was great to talk to him he sounds uniquely like himself there is no doubt who i am talking to uh he's been on the uh on the on the road with his one-man show tales of bravery Bravery and Stupidity, and he's turning that into a book. And he's also, I guess, the executive producer and director of the upcoming sketch comedy show called Tall Boys. So on Sunday, what I did was, today's Thursday, I haven't talked to you since Monday, but I didn't tell you about Sunday.

So Sunday was a big day. It was the day before I did Birmingham, England So Sunday was a big day. It was the day before I did Birmingham, England, which was a good show. It was an interesting show. So on Sunday, I went down to the Hayward Gallery, and that's down by South Bank Center where I did the show. This is in London. I was going to go see the Diane Arbus show. They have a Diane Arbus exhibit of early photographs of Diane Arbus. Some I've seen, most of them I hadn't. It was sort of before she found her style in a way. You could see it coming, but she was still using a 35 millimeter camera before she went with the, I think it's two and a half by two and a half

square, maybe Hasselblad type of stuff for one of the other bigger cameras. And she did a lot of those shots that you know that are hers that are signature hers but this before was more of a Ouija, Versailles, Robert Frank-ish I think area of photography though you could see it coming but it was a little more it was a little different still starting to you know kind of peel back the layers of people who are painfully authentic, slightly disturbing. But anyway, so I went to see that. But there was another show along with it that kind of blew my mind. And it was one of those moments where you realize just how isolated or insulated or just detached we are in America.

Maybe not everybody. Maybe I'm just talking about me. just detached we are in America. Maybe not everybody. Maybe I'm just talking about me. Maybe I can't generalize and say it's the whole country about the broader palette, the broader spectrum of other cultures, other problems, other issues that happen internationally that are similar to some of the issues we have, but different. And it was kind of blowing my mind, this Algerian, a French Algerian artist, I I believe his name is Kater Atia there was a lot of his work several different rooms different things there was a room full of pictures of Algerian transgender prostitutes in Paris there was another room that dealt primarily with kind

of documentary short documentary footage about people talking about lost limbs both from war and from other reasons and then there was another room that was like structural sculpture that was sort of like uh housing projects and stuff based on the the grid of housing projects and there was another room that had large shelves with um primitive, primitive and some modern African masks with books. And some of these masks had disfigured faces on them. And then there were photographs of, uh, world war two soldiers whose faces were disfigured and then repaired.

He's sort of obsessed with the idea of repair and what repair implies. It's all very deep and very complicated and provocative, but it was got me into that space where i bought the book and i'm reading about it and it's all about you know post-colonialism and about the struggle of of self and what public housing and projects do to ethnic groups who are marginalized and expected to integrate it was it was a lot there was a lot of different rooms a lot of different angles and my brain was all blown out with the Arvis photograph, so I was pretty wide open.

And then downstairs at the BFI, the British Film Institute, they were running new prints of Clockwork Orange, so I went and saw that. So needless to say, I was blasted apart in a pretty dark way. I don't think about post-colonialism. It was bad. But that's not a conversation that we really have in the States, or maybe it's not a conversation I have.

It just made me realize in that moment that we sort of get, even if you're open-minded, it's amazing how narrow-minded you get in terms of what is sort of moving through your brain and how you see the world. And this just sort of kind of supported and kind of blew out and opened up my own weird floating sense of how do I know what I know? What do I know that is real? What is truth? What is happening? Is it over? It was a dark day and then i had dinner with yorgos lanthimos who went to my show you might have remembered i interviewed him he's a director greek director lives in london and he directed the favorite and some of those kind of

provocative and troubling movies that i enjoyed the lobster killing the sacred deer Alps dog tooth yeah he turns yeah he's obviously a very bright and very smart guy with a very you know real vision a slightly dark vision so it was a full-on dark vision day but uh me and Yorgos just had a nice chat about love life food creativity ate at a nice place. Yep, desserts. That's where it started now that I'm thinking about it. I'm on a roll, man, with the food. There's pastries over there. I'll explain it to you in a minute.

I think I'm trying to say that I'm having a pretty good time, and I'm filling my brain up, and I'm loading it up, and I'm blowing it out, and I'm integrating it into what I'm thinking about out loud on stage, and it's good. It's proactive. I'm eating well, but I'm hating myself for it. But that is the wire I walk. That's the thin ice of me.

I'm out there. I'm out there without a net, eating things that can just completely drop the bottom out of my entire sense of self. But right? Live a little. So the pastries, maybe I should address that email. Mark, my husband and I are huge fans and it has been great to watch your fame grow bigger every year. I just wanted to write and ask you how you have learned to mellow out over the years. You are constantly mentioning that you were jealous and angry in your earlier

career. I personally can tell this in the tone of your voice during your podcast and stand-up over the years. Do you meditate? Do yoga? How have you found your personal inner peace? This is a constant battle for myself, and I'm looking for some guidance. Big fan, May. May, there is nothing going on inside of me

that resembles inner peace, first of all. Second of all, the jealousy and anger has been tempered. I still find it comes up in moments. It doesn't need to come up, but it does. The anger thing is there, but it's getting better. A couple of things have happened. I have found some success in my life, which kind of filled a certain void in that I worked my entire life to achieve something, and I seem to have achieved a lot of the things I wanted to achieve, and I am achieving them still. So that helps a lot. I used to do yoga. I don't. I exercise a lot, except right now because I'm on the road, and I've chosen to eat instead of exercise. I don't meditate. I've tried. I find it irritating. But a lot of it has to do with just knowing what's real and what isn't,

which is the big question. What are you reacting to? How are you making yourself crazy? Is it real or is it something your brain is just doing to you? Usually for me, it was something my brain is doing to me. And that I think is probably the same for a lot of people. The truth is, is that if you look around and you make a little gratitude list, what is going well? What are you thankful for? You know, did you have a nice breakfast? How's your pets? Is your partner a nice person? Some of those things, you can check those off and maybe find a little balance. But some kind of self- self acceptance I think is necessary. It's a tall order,

especially if your brain is projecting garbage all the time, but, um, sometimes you can turn that off that those are the times that are enjoyable. I hope that helps. Thanks for writing in. I don't know. I don't know.

I'm there's pastries over there. I'm staying at this hotel all right i'm in dublin i'm excited to be here i did i get here and i walk into my room and there's a tray of four like fancy kind of like pastry art pastry little pieces of stuff cookies stuff with cream stuff with the you know arty chocolate on top things that look too pretty to eat. And it's just sort of like, what the fuck? I can't just do this. There's four of them. And I felt bad because I want to insult the pastry chef. I get really weird about throwing food away. And when I really think about how much food gets thrown in the garbage and I think, well, you can grow

more stuff that grows and I guess you can make more meat, but that's part of the problem. How many fish are there left? How can we throw all this fish away? It doesn't matter. That's sometimes where my brain goes. Pastries are a little different, but I did feel bad, but I was like, went downstairs. I'm like, you got to get those out of my room because I can't do that right now. I didn't go too far into it. I didn't spin out in front of the woman at the front desk. Like I really, I don't know what you're trying to do to me. I mean, come on, fuck that. They look so good, but I can't do it because then it'll just be a spiral of darkness. It was a pretty little sweet spiral of darkness available to me. This goes back to what May just wrote. Try not to do those things that will throw you into a spiral of darkness. And then I come

back to my room and there's not one tray of pastry, little pastry cookie things. There's two. And they gave me a mistake one. There was a card to me. Thanks for being at the hotel. And then there was a card to a Mr. Jackson and on it they squirted in chocolate,

happy 10th stay. That's not me. I don't even know if this is real again. I'm in another hotel. Am I in the shining? Have I been here 10 times? Should I eat both of those trays of pastries? There's eight of them just sitting over there.

And if I don't get them the fuck out of my room, I'm going to eat them all really fast and then sit there in a sugar coma and wonder why about everything. Not going to do it. Anyway, this pastry's right there. There's two trays of them. There's a round thing with some cream on it, then a square thing with several layers and a couple of pretty candies on it,

and then there's a brownie floating on what looks like a piece of peanut brittle with some other goop on the top and then there's just a little piece of chocolate now knowing me if i leave them there long enough i'll be like i'm just gonna eat the little piece of chocolate then there's a bowl of chocolate what the fuck is with this chocolate there's a piece of chocolate on the bed maybe i'm not cut out for this nice hotel shit i'm having a good time. Did I mention that? Can you hear it in my voice? Bruce McCullough, the fourth kid in the hall that I've talked to. His one-man show, Tales of Bravery and Stupidity. He tours with that.

It's also becoming a book. And he's also the executive producer and director of the upcoming sketch comedy show called Tall Boys. This is me talking to Bruce McCullough. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel

by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here? You'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson

bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com are you trying to intimidate me with your expensive guitars no i mean yeah well yeah no no the gibson i got for free right yeah so. Yeah, so I'm not trying to intimidate you. People just give you guitars, right? Well, I work it. Yeah. I mean, I'm not a musician, so in order for me to get a free guitar from Gibson, I've got to really jump through some hoops.

Yeah. I had to do some things. Right. Yeah. See, I still get caps. That's where I'm at. Caps? Yeah, like a toque.

It says Project Tan or something on it. I'm not fucking with that. And a water bottle. Yeah. Yeah. Get a waterque. It says Project Tan or something on it. I'm not fucking with that. And a water bottle. Yeah, yeah. Get a water bottle. That stinks. So where'd you drive? Did you drive?

Am I close to you? I mean, are we? I was in Laurel Canyon. Is that where you live? No, I actually live in Toronto, and I stayed late. Oh, really? To come to this? To come see you.

That's nice. Because you're an influencer. Am, really? To come to this? To come see you. That's nice. Because you're an influencer. Am I still? Yeah. And you have many, many platforms, which is a funny word. I think I have, I have one primary platform and it's podcasting. I can't, you know, I'm about to, I'm trying to get off the platforms. Right. Are you? I'm just on Twitter. But I can't take it anymore. Yeah. Well, it's, everyone went through a thing, I think, when he was first elected where they were all so sad. But I think people are funny again now. Well, it's weird because that's what happened.

He was elected. We're not mentioning names. Yeah. The monster came. Yeah. When the monster, when the golem showed up. Yeah, everyone was like, it's over. But I kind of stuck to it.

I stopped tweeting anything funny or clever. Right. Arguably ever. But I mean, when Trump took office, I was like, I'm out. And I just never really went back. Yeah. Because then it just seemed like this. I don't know.

Do you ever look at Twitter and just see just a lot of needy people? Like people we know even. Yeah, all of us. All of us needy children who had people we know, even. Yeah, all of us. All of us needy children who had bad childhoods. It's true, right? Yeah, there we are. Yeah. Just every 10 minutes, like, oh, there he is again.

Yeah, some too many. Yeah. And, of course, I have friends who, this is the good life. Really? Yeah. What do you mean? Like, oh, here's me in Paris. Oh, they do that?

Yeah, a little bit of that. Is that Instagram more? I guess. I'm not on Instagram. But they do it on Twitter? Yeah. Oh, really really so you've got some of those friends who are like how you doing? It's like shut up. Yeah I'm living my best life at Trader Joe's. They have Trader Joe's in Toronto? They do not. Oh I think I remembered that like because once you get hooked to Trader Joe's you go somewhere else you're like how do you not have it? Yeah

where's Trader Joe's? Yeah. And then you realize, like, it's not that great. Yeah. Is it? I don't know. It's like, and you're asking, it's like it's fentanyl or something. Yeah, right.

Hey, man, where's Trader Joe's? Where's Trader Joe's? You want that consistency. You want to be able to show up and go like, it's just like ours. Yeah. Because they have the same things. Yeah. Yeah.

I want the $6 rosé. Yeah. So, all right. So you live in Toronto. I just, I've been in, I had been in la for almost 20 years and i just moved back oh this sounds like a sad story yeah it's a very sad story no i i'd always sort of promised myself and my family that i'd be back by the time my daughter was in high school which was this year so we she started high school this year yeah i you know but don't you aren't

you relieved that you have canada i i am yeah and i think i i feel sort of bad that i'm leaving leaving the shit show yeah because there's so many sad people here yeah and it's not a great time i thought you meant the show you were directing well oh i'm like excellent excellent i'm out i'm out i fuck that show which is yeah no the shit show is true but but you're sad a little bit well Well, no, I don't want people to think I've left because of Trump. Right. It was just time of the season, as we like to say. No, I mean, I think if you would have left because of Trump, you're on the other side of the arc here. You would have got out two years ago and said, fuck this. Yeah.

But did you become a citizen here? How does that work? Yeah. I have two passports in my expensive lapel of my jacket. What does it take? Because initially when he took office, I was very panicked that my people, them being the Jews, were going to be corralled up. No, the Jews are fine now. It's the darker skinned people. Well, that was my girlfriend's argument was like, I don't think you're first on the list. I know, but we're on it.

Four down probably. But that's insensitive. But I did call an immigration lawyer in Canada. I did a little research and it was, her English was choppy

and she was French and I didn't quite understand. It seemed like a big ordeal. Right. Was it a big ordeal? No, you just pay a guy. You just got to know a guy, pay a guy.

Really? To be a citizen here as a Canadian? Yeah, but I'd had H1s or whatever it was through my career. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I remember, like, I guess I was at Comedy Central. No, I mean, it was sort of after the kids in the hall kind of already ran its course,

but we ran them constantly. The early Comedy Central. Like late 80s. Yeah. But you didn't grow up in Toronto. I grew up in Calgary in a little, it was backwards then. You would be chased by a truck called a fag if you were wearing bowling shoes or nurse's shoes as I was. Is that what, you were a nurse's shoes guy?

Yeah, nurse's shoes and like three neckties and a piece of rope holding my pants up. You know, the usual stuff, Mark. Yeah. When you're 16. Yeah, you're 16 in the 80s. Yeah, exactly. That's exactly it. It's very specific.

Yeah, yeah. Because I was looking through stuff about you, and you're a couple years older than me, but it is that weird time of, there's that window of how we all defined ourselves as individuals back then that's very specific. Yeah. The sort of punk, rocky, new, wavy. Oh, without question. Bowling shirts, bowling shoes, work clothes, and not working. Yeah. The sort of punk, rocky, new, wavy. Oh, without question. Bowling shirts, bowling shoes, work clothes, and not working.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And especially me. I mean, and Calgary, luckily I found about six friends who were into T-Rex or whatever I was into. But that was all I cared about. Really? T-Rex was the thing? Well, just all of it. No, I know.

It went from deep purple No, I know. It went from Deep Purple to all the- Well, that's the thing that I started to notice about even the music comedy records you did and some of the other stuff was that we were the generation that kind of straddled that kind of early 70s rock and this other thing. Yeah. So we had it around us. It was so important. I remember when I did stand-up, I'd come out to Lust for Life. Right. And I think it was so important I remember I I used to when

I did stand up I'd come out to lust for life right and I think I was so cool right yeah yeah yeah and then I'd bomb yeah right cuz the music thought that is gonna be fun and then I do not like being brought out to music even now right I'm like yeah dad you did why would you do that yeah it's just like it Marc Maron. How is that not going to be let down? Yeah, and it's never a song that has anything to do with you. It's some rap song I don't even know the name of. But when you were a kid, though, because there was definitely a difference between rock guys and the art guys.

Right. And you landed firmly in the art camp, or you were half and half? Well, I was all of that. And I was an angry young man. I fought a lot. I drank a lot. You were a fighter? Oh, yeah.

Fought a lot. Really? I mostly would get beat up, but you'd go out and fight. So you'd booze it up and go beat up who? Or the cowboys would come get us. That's the thing. I didn't learn that until later in life about the Calgary cowboys. Oh, man.

They would get you. Yeah. Yeah. And we'd go with a guy from Stelco Steel. He wouldn't even wash his face after a shift and he'd say, who do you want me to take? And we'd point, we'd point Gord into some direction and he'd take out about three guys. And then one little guy would come and beat the fucking shit out of me. So that was just it?

You'd drink and you'd go find cowboys to fight? Yeah. Well, no, they would find you because we were fags because we weren't wearing what they were wearing. But I don't know if a lot of people understand that Calgary has this culture because it's oil, right? Yeah. And they just sort of copy Texas. How does it just recreate itself? Well, it is sort of like that. It is sort of like Dallas or one of those places where, you know, and it's king. The oil is King. Yeah. Yeah.

Is it still? Uh, yeah, but there's a great arts community there now that was sort of started around, you know, that we were there and some great theater and all kinds of stuff. So when you're, okay. So you're growing up in Calgary, you and your six friends and, uh, by six, he means two, two, but a large one named Gord. Yeah. The missile.

And are you doing, like, how many siblings you got? I have an older sister. Is she all right? Yeah, she's okay. She's got a great spirit. I always say she's my younger sister, even though she's older. Why? I don't know.

Because she talks funny and stuff. Like, I don't know. Was she the role model for many of the feminine characters that you were? Well, I do a Kathy as one of our characters, which is kind of my sister, who is like, bad things are always happening to her. Yeah. But she's still got a great little spirit. Oh, that's okay. Ah, I'm in jail in Gleeson, Alberta.

You know. Did you guys talk about, like have serious discussions about who who played the best woman um no i we we left that for other people um where does it land usually well i think it's dave i have a pretty good set of legs yeah um scott is a can't believe that he's considered the worst looking woman very handsome man though though, of course. But yeah. And Mark had a very specific woman. He did. Yeah. So when you're growing up there in Calgary with the Cowboys and two friends and big gourd, what changes, were you heading down a bad path? Did you feel like you're going to be lost if you didn't find the funny?

Yeah. I didn't know what I was going to do. And I was kind of a loser. And on my 18th birthday, I had a thing called Tequila Fest at my house. You and the two guys? Well, actually, we invited over some more friends. And my mom came in and had a heart attack when she saw the house. And from there on, for about a year, I'd just do like any job because I had no money. And I'd be like, you know. She freaked out? Framing houses. Yeah.

She had a heart attack. She had a real heart attack? A literal heart attack. No. Yeah. On my 18th birthday. Oh my God. And so.

Is she all right? Happy birthday. What happened? She's still alive, believe it or not. She's had a few more. You know, she's 80 now. She's had a few heart attacks. She just keeps having them.

You know? I think her heart's a lump of butter. But she's 80, so. She's had a few heart attacks. She just keeps having them. You know? I think her heart's a lump of butter. But she's 80, so she's- She's 80, so every time I talk to her, I say, Mom, I can't fucking believe you're still alive. What did she say? Yeah, me neither. What about your old man?

Long dead. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Yeah. How'd he die? ALS. Oh, that's bad. It's a bad one.

That takes time. For a guy who likes to talk, and then he couldn't talk at the end. Oh, my God. It's very sad. He had his clipboard. He'd write out a joke, Mark. It would drive me crazy. He'd write out a joke. It's a bad one. That takes time. For a guy who likes to talk, and then he couldn't talk at the end. Oh, my God. It was very sad. He had his clipboard. He'd write out a joke, Mark. It would drive me crazy. He'd write out a joke.

It would take five minutes. It's like, Dad, you don't need to write out a joke that takes five minutes. Yeah. It's called timing, Dad. You'd say that to him? Yeah. Poor guy. He's just like, enough.

Yeah. You knew the joke. But how old were you when that happened? That was about 15 years ago. Oh. Yeah. And it took a long time? Yeah. Not so Oh. Yeah. And it took a long time? Yeah.

Not so long. Yeah. It took a long time. Yeah. But you were able to communicate by writing on, he would write things? He would write. AOS means you still have your brain, but your body fails you? Yeah. And it either affects your voice or something else.

There's two forms of it, and his is the voice. And he loved to talk, right? Yeah. He'd wake up in the morning and go, I'm lonely. Let's talk. What are we talking about? Want to talk about the Prussian empire? Like anything was of interest to him. But it would start with, I'm lonely. Yeah, I'm lonely. It's like six in the morning, dad. You just smell the cigarettes coming from downstairs. So that happened your whole life?

Yeah, my whole life. Where was your mom? Well, they broke up when I was young. And then I had a stepmom who died of the drink. And my dad was a very serious boozer. Really? Really good at it. Yeah? Yeah.

But then went to AA for many years, last year. So he died sober? Yep. Wow. Yeah. Now, when you were in high school, did that transfer to you? Were you, are you a... I drank, but Daddy drank rye, so I wasn't going to drink rye.

Rye. Who even calls it rye? Was he from the 1800s? Rye and ginger. That was Daddy's drink. Yeah? Rye and ginger. Now, rye is just whiskey, right?

It's a type of whiskey. What's a brand of rye? Well, Hudson's Bay. Because my mom had worked at Hudson's Bay, so she drank the rye. And in a plastic cup. What's Hudson's Bay? It's Hudson's Bay, the company? Yeah. That took all their land from the First Nations people and took plastic cup. What's Hudson's Bay? It's Hudson's Bay, the company? Yeah.

That took all their land from the First Nations people and took all their- Is this a Canadian thing? Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Well, you don't look so surprised. I'm a little- He doesn't care about the First Nations people, guys. You heard it here.

In Hudson's Bay, what kind of company was it? What'd they make? Well, they make everything. It's a department store, but they famously took all the pelts from the First Nations people. Oh, I get it. And gave them blankets. That's where it started. Yeah.

My dad famously got up at one of their functions. My mom worked there. Yeah. And gave a toast to Hudson's Bay, who had been fucking the First Nations people, fucking them over. And everyone went, what is he doing? But that's the kind of thing you do. It was a protest message? Yes, of course, yeah.

He was a hipster, right? Well, no, but that's where you got your sense of humor. Like a couple of drinks, he's just going to stick it to the man. Yeah, of course. Yeah, at his wife's function. We never stopped hearing about that one. And that was the end of them? No, they just kept going. Yeah? Yeah one. And that was the end of them? No, they just

kept going. Yeah? Yeah. Oh, that was the stepmom? Yeah. Those are the years of rye.

Was that the stepmom? Yeah, that was the stepmom. Oh, so they were both drinking the rye. Yeah.

Oh my God. Did you live with them? For a while, and then I left. Yeah, it was pretty grim. Yeah? And they had a dog

that would just binky, that would just attack you if you left the house. It was fucking crazy. Don't leave. Don't leave me with these people. You'd have to throw a ball and then like you go for it and then you run out before you caught your pant leg so that sounds pretty chaotic and you're very

chaotic and your mom didn't remarry uh she had a bunch of uh suitors lovers things like that but no in and out of the house yeah this is your new dad oh no maybe not no no dad just some guy this guy little guy's named like like Billy and stuff like that. Billy. Where did you pick up a guy named Billy? I've never even heard that one. But you seem to, so, I mean, I guess this is what built you. This is the shame that built you.

Yeah. And it's so funny when I see, like, I'm working with a young comedy troupe now, and they've had sort of nice lives, and it's like, how do you do it? How are you funny? Like, you know, for us, obviously, it's in the hall. It's all all dysfunction. You know, I don't like I find myself asking that, too. Like, is it like there there was a point where I think we all sort of celebrated the fact that we'd gone through some shit. Yeah. And it was cultural. And it was, you know, the time was right for it. I mean, there was like new things happening or whatever,

but it seemed like I sort of, I think I look back at my life and I'm like, yeah, I've had many lives and, you know, we went through some shit and it sort of defined me. Yeah. And then when I see these younger people, they're sort of well-adjusted. They seem to function. They have a plan. Right.

That kind of stuff. Yep. And they're good. And I'm like, maybe we didn't need it. I mean, maybe romanticizing that stuff was just bullshit. No, it is bullshit. And I think, you know, it's like there's so much kindness since a lot of young people. I don't know what to do with that.

I don't believe it at first. Right. Well, I don't believe it at first, but it's actually real. I know. I know. There's real sincere kind of like they're well adjusted. Yeah. And we're old white fuckers.

We have to realize the world has actually changed. No, I mean, I think that's true. Yeah. It has changed, but does that diminish us entirely? Or can we still somehow like secretly be proud of our fuck upness? Oh, without question. I mean, we've been grandfathered in, right? We're like, I think now like anybody who's, you know, know my age i won't say our age because i'm a

little bit older than you 57 i'm 55 yeah um is uh we're like the blues now like we're just still out there man like that's how i feel right i'm i'm bb king on on a tuesday night there's there's a i saw i remember i saw mavis staples a few years ago yeah and one of the greatest singers in the world and she's and then she gave one of the greatest shows and the world. Yeah, absolutely. And then she gave one of the greatest shows, and then she said, yeah, and there's CDs for sale out front. It's like, yeah, you're 75 and you're still doing it. Go, Mavis, go. Yeah, there's the go, Mavis, go part of that,

but as somebody who sees it, there's two ways to look at that. Like, why does she have to do that still? Right. But it's what she does. I always wonder that about certain people. It's like, do you need to do this? It's like Bob Dylan is probably out there singing at a state fair right now. And there's part of me that's sort of like, well, he can't need to do it.

Well, I know. It's like my friend Jeff Garland who, you know, doing stand-up. Dropping those names. Yeah, there you go. Hey, Jeffy. Walks in, he's doing stand-up at 11 at night. You got two shows on the air. What do you need to do stand-up at 11 at night for?

Not only does he need to do it, but he's very proud of the fact that he doesn't write any stand-up and never prepares to do stand-up and then gets up there and kind of like rambles through something. Yeah, it's the ramble act. I don't prepare for any of it.

He's very proud of that. And there are nights where I watch him and I'm like, maybe you should, you know, maybe. He writes something down. He's going to get mad at me for saying that. Repetition is beautiful. So, okay. So there you are.

You can't go home. No. You can never go home. You're growing up and there's just, there's Rye. Yeah. Rye and Ginger in one house and Billy's in the other house. Maybe a new guy. Yeah. So your mom worked at Hudson Bay. What'd the dad do uh he was a salesman he was a traveling salesman for real when yeah

when that existed and then he sold furniture but he had a couple of trunks of stuff that he'd thrown the trunk and yeah he actually had sample cases like old school that's why i what anything he was just a he sold like um greeting cards and uh uh different kinds of animal products like to help clean things and stuff it was pretty national chem search he worked for it was pretty sad stuff but because he was a boozer he would go on the road sure work two days and then get lost for three you know and that's what i think all those guys all these traveling salesmen were boozers right well yeah it's like well it's also like comics you know like not drink well but stand-up comics you go out you do your in a different town from wednesday to sunday and a lot of those guys like

i don't know about about traveling salesmen were were definitely you know running from tax payments alimony payments families children like it was their own space. So he'd just kind of hole up in a hotel room and go at it. But also you have 23 hours in a day, you know, so what else are you going to do? That's right. Well, you might as well drink for four and then sleep for 12. And then watch the first 48 on A&E because it's the only thing on. So really he'd go on benders. Yeah.

Oh, man. Yeah. But you got along with him the whole time? Well, he was a violent man. He was fun, though. Like, he was all things. It could be like he'd slap you for doing something wrong, or he'd say, hey, let's order Chinese food.

You know, it could be anything. Those are the two options? Yeah, pretty much. Chinese food or a slap. Those are the two tones. Yeah, yeah. You get popped or like, yeah, come on. Yeah.

What are we going to do tonight? Let's talk about jazz. Yeah. So did he beat you up a lot? I don't know if he would say beat me up. He would slap me, right? Or he would slap my sister. You know, it was very, very chaotic.

But so in light of that, I find that people who have that kind of upbringing where you just never know what you're walking into or what's going to happen, you go two directions. You either become that or you become these sort of controlled, like, oh, let's just try to make it as safe as possible for everybody. Yeah, I don't know if I'm that. Oddly, I don't know. I don't feel like I wear that. No, I don't feel that way. But you seem like you wear that. No, I don't feel that way. But you seem like, you seem stable. Yeah.

You know, maybe a little dark, but stable. Yeah, and I feel with age, I've gotten more stable and more. I think I was, you know, like kind of a young prick. Yeah. But I feel now that I've evolved into someone I'm fairly proud of. Right. Isn't it weird how you soften and there's nothing you can do about it. And then every once in a while, the old prick comes out and you're like, I better put a

stop to that. Yeah. It does. Yeah. I can't yell. People can't yell anymore. You can't yell at people anymore. You can't throw a coffee mug at an assistant anymore.

Man, things have changed. Yeah. You can't even throw hot coffee anymore. It's the world coming to you. You were a ye changed. Yeah. I can't even throw hot coffee anymore. It's a world coming. You were a yeller? Yeah. Or it's like, mostly about the show or my comedy, because everything I was doing was so important, and everyone had to understand that.

You know, just get out of my way. Get out of the little man's way. He will eat your throat. The genius is in the room. Yeah. And I remember we'd do the tapings, and Kevin and Dave would celebrate because they were so happy after a scene. And I would run upstairs and look at the feed and make sure we didn't eat pickups. So there, that's the control thing.

Yeah, right. Right? Yeah. The angry, controlly guy. Yeah, I guess. All right, so where do you first start engaging with the stage? I went to Loose Moose Theater. Calgary?

Yeah, in Calgary. And I'd been kind of a punk. And certainly a- How punky? Were you in a band at that point? No, all my friends were in bands. I was never in a band. Like hardcore kind of stuff?

Yeah, the Husker Du and all that would come and play the Calgarian all the time or people like that. But then I found comedy and it was like I found my religion. Really? When I went to see improv comedy, I was, you know, it was like I found my religion. Really? When I went to see improv comedy, I was, you know, it was almost sexually attracted. Do you remember to it?

You were sexually almost like. Almost, he said. Yeah. Yeah. But you, like, do you remember who it was? Who? Like that you saw that was like, oh my God. No, there's no.

Well, no. Yeah. The Titino brothers. Oh, great. Yeah. They were fantastic. They were like rock stars. Really? And then you'd see them in a restaurant after. It's like, wow, they eat in Brothers. Oh, great. Yeah, they were fantastic. They were like rock stars. Really?

And then you'd see them in a restaurant after. It's like, wow, they eat in the same restaurants as us. Really? That's their name? It was, yeah, Frank and Tony Titino. They were improv guys? Yeah, and they're still doing it. Really?

Yeah, and it was amazing. They were like, I couldn't believe how cool that whole thing was. What was the structure? It was like, how did it go? What year are we talking? Like, 82, 83? Yeah, 83. And it would be, it's theater sports.

It's competitive. Oh, right, okay. And you get thrown off the stage and all that stuff. Right, right. So it was competitive. Uh-huh. And I thought it was beautiful. Yeah.

Yeah. It is kind of amazing. It is amazing, yeah. And then when you see them do the same thing, the third show, you're like, oh, wow. Well, I think it's a really great art form for a little bit when you're starting your your world right well i i like i i think that's true and i think that's one of the things i always envied about you fellas and and i imagine you know you find kindred spirit and the people you're working with now what's the new show called tall boys is that the name of the sketch comedy yeah that's the thing i'm doing for cbc right now and

that those that's a younger crew it is a younger crew, and they're excellent. And you're the executive producer? And director, yeah. And they come to you like a father figure and say, we can't resolve this sketch. Can you help us?

And you say, make that voice funnier. Yeah, or just get a better ending. That's what we call an idea for an idea. Just make it funnier. Yeah. But what I was saying was that there's um

there's something about improv where you like you're you going into it if that's your thing you're like you're gonna be working with other people and there's an at least that there has to be some basic respect to you know for other folks and working in an ensemble whereas when you're a stand-up you're like i don't need anybody yeah. Yeah. I'm going out there alone. They're different. They're different. They really are. I mean, now we're all as kind, but I don't think when you're young, you're as kind as improvisers are.

No, because you just build your own little wall and you got your own little world and you condescend to everybody in a way. Oh, yeah. And it's like, look out. Oh, old man, watch what I'm going to do. You know? Yeah. I can bomb. Oh, old man, watch what I'm going to do. You know? Yeah. I can bomb.

Oh, bombing, yeah. So once you saw those guys, you got involved with improv sports? Yeah, right away. Yeah. And then stopped dressing creatively because I didn't need to anymore. And just found my thing. You found that transition? Like, I don't need these bomb shoes.

I didn't even notice I was doing it. And then I just started wearing army pants around for two years. Because you'd found another way to define yourself that was more honest. Yeah. You didn't have to pretend. Yeah, it was. And I met Mark and all that. And I was like, oh, my God.

You met Mark in Calgary? Yeah. Was he from there? No, he was there, I think, university. And he worked for Dial-A-Bottle. Dial-A-Bottle? Yeah. What is that?

Your phone. You take booze to boozers. Dial-A-Bottle. Come on, Mark. That's a real thing? Don't act like you don't know what Dial-A- boozers. Dial a bottle. Come on, Mark. That's a real thing? Don't act like you don't know what dial a bottle is. I'm not. Come on, Mark.

You Canadians are ahead of us in so many ways. Yeah, dial a bottle. Yeah, but it was that honest? That was shameless? Yeah. Like, you know, we don't want you to drive. You're probably well into it. Yeah, and you might only be 17, but.

We'll bring you one. Yeah. Yeah, he's the only, I guess after you, he's the only one that I haven't talked to on the mic, that Mark. Oh, usually I'm the last. Really? People always collect kids in the hall like Pokemans. It's like, you're the last one I've met. Oh, no.

It's usually everyone says, I know Dave. I went out with Dave. Well, everyone knows Dave. Yeah. You used to see him around a lot. Yeah, and then here's me. I'm just like, you can't find me. And Kevin, there was the Kevin McDonald debacle.

Did you hear about that? Which one? Where I had the wrong Kevin McDonald. Oh, you didn't. Who was the wrong? Oh, did you hear about that which one where I had the wrong Kevin McDonald oh you didn't who was the wrong oh the the film director the film director

well I was expecting it was a horrendous day in the way that like you know I was expecting Kevin your Kevin to show up and then this guy shows up who I didn't

know at all I didn't know what the fuck to ask nothing yeah and I scramble out to the garage to do a quick bit

of research that's hilarious and you did that when I arrived yeah I did because I thought the other Bruce McCullough was coming the guy who works at the Lowe's Hardware yeah. And you did that when I arrived. Yeah, I did because I thought the other Bruce McCullough was coming,

the guy who works at the Lowe's Hardware. Yeah. Hey, do you know that Scott Thompson and Carrot Top are the same? I do know that

they have the same name. You know, and there was a period where I'd occasionally get texts from both of them because I knew Carrot Top because I interviewed him and he would always send

these really horrendous pornographic pictures like once a year and i'd be like why is scott thompson kids in the hall sending me this yeah it wouldn't be unusual for him to but i didn't expect him to yeah and it wasn't him yeah it was scott thompson was that the bane of anyone's existence that they had the same no no i not at all i thought it was funny so mark mckinney and you are hanging out. Yep. Here's the weird thing about all of you is. Yeah. You all got this perverse darkness somewhere working.

Yeah. Yeah. There's a real. Even the nice ones like Dave. Yeah. Is he the nice one or is Kevin really the nice one? Oh, Kevin's nice. But, you know, we always say he's the worst in some way.

Because like, you know, he says, well, when you're out of my sight, I'll forget you immediately. Like he's like, oh, I'm the worst. Yeah. So he's sort of right, I guess. But they're the nice ones. Him and Dave were the kind ones. Yeah. And Dave is a very kind man as well. Yeah.

Mark seems a little menacing. No, he's kind. Like, we've all become kind, but he, you know. We're Canadian, so it's built in a little bit. But he can drive, Mark can drive you crazy. He'll like change, if you were interviewing him, he would change the time seven times and then it would change back to the original time. What do you mean time?

Just activity. Like he's, I need more information. Right. You know, I just need, just a guy who needs more information. He dodges. And I think I grew up in a way in reaction to him. So it's like, no, we're going, we're going to Toronto.

We're going to New York. We're going to. And he was like, ah. Can we think about it a couple more years so I knew his brother Nick yeah how's that guy doing uh he's pretty good he was gonna hey he was gonna do a documentary on kids in the hall hey Nick where's our documentary well Paul Myers just wrote a book on you right yeah he did and did uh did you like the book I did not read it because that's the way I am right that's how I'm weird that way did he talk to you oh yeah and

very thorough very good guy he's a friend of ours yeah no no yeah he's a good guy and he's very good guy people seem to quite like the book and they like it for the things you've probably been talking to me about which is that it has some relationship to like our weird path like how we were formed which I'm always interested we're in good company I mean he's written a couple books but it's like you and Todd Rundgren yeah yeah and I don And I barely understand Todd Rundgren. No, I, yeah. Him and Zap are just, and Hawkwind, they're all in just this weird world. They are, man. Hawkwind, I didn't come to Hawkwind, I didn't even know Hawkwind existed until like eight years ago. Wow. Where were you? And you should have

called me up. I would have told you. Yeah, Hawkwind exists. Okay, how'd you get this number? There's 90 records. Yeah. Here's the one you should start with. Yeah, start with the 13th. Yeah, here's the two with Lemmy on them. Go there and see how it spreads out. But they're one of those bands where it's like,

they're still going and there's like, what, one member left and that kind of thing? Yeah, I think he's the original roadie. Right. The only original member is the, sort of the name on the roadie. Right. The only original member is the name on the bass drum. Right. So you and Mark, you're there in Calgary.

Yep. But he was sort of punky too, or was he an oddball then? He was more an oddball, I think. Tall. I don't really know what he was into, like weird sweaters. He was like a theater guy right and they're always like oh mark's taking acting classes he's not gonna be funny anymore but he just got funnier he did yeah he's like he he works primarily as an actor yeah that's like

what he does now yeah yeah yeah so so what do you guys do you guys do you do a team thing how does it start we start and there was other people involved we started doing a thing called late night comedy which was after calgary after theater sports we had write a few things you know naked for jesus or whatever and like just naked for jesus yeah that was just one of my scenes but we would we would just do them uh in the for the audience after theater sports and then people started coming just for our show and we were we were it was it was odd that it happened to us. We were successful very quickly. The two of you?

Well, there was a few other guys. It's called Late Night Comedy. So there's about five of us. What happened to those guys? They're around. Norm Hiscock, who worked on all kinds, you know, he works on Brooklyn Nine-Nine, a bunch of shows.

And there was a few other people. And you guys are like 18, 19 years old? Yeah, 19, 20. Yeah. And like it's, so Hiscock is here? Yeah. And the other guys, you don't know? No, they're around.

Frank Van Keekens working in Canada and Gary Campbell works in Canada. It's weird, Canada. Like if you just hang out and you stay relatively funny, you get a job. Yeah. For a while.

Yeah, for a while. I was in CBC. I said, well, I'm back. What are you gonna do with me? I gotta do something. You know? There's a kid in a job. Yeah. For a while. Yeah, for a while. I was in CBC. I said, well, I'm back. What are you going to do with me? I got to do something. There's a kid in the hall. I'm a legend. So when do you hit the wall in Calgary where you realize it's not going to happen here?

Well, it did happen there. We were selling out. And I said, oh, it's time to go to Toronto. Yeah. Toronto was the goal. Yeah. Well, I wanted to go there because the Damned played there as well. But it was like, no,'s time to go to Toronto yeah yeah Toronto was the goal yeah well I want to go there because the damned played there as well you know but it was like no we have to go to Toronto but never you like it's funny because that's a reality and when you're Canadian you don't think like we got to go to Hollywood you got to go to Toronto no never even crossed my mind right yeah no you just got to go to Toronto because it was the coolest city my older friends were out there yeah already so you and Mark, I picture you load up a car.

I actually went out first and he told me to find him an apartment with a fireplace that costs $200 a month. That's how Mark McKinney can drive you crazy. Did you do it? No, I couldn't find him one. Yeah, I got a friend coming. He needs an apartment with a fireplace for $200 a month. What is this, Europe?

All right, so you go alone and you scope out the scene? Yeah, and we started, you know, there was Second City and there was Yak-Yaks then. And we just started doing our own thing. And we were very unsuccessful for a very long time. You and Mark? Yeah, and other people. And then that's when we met Kevin and Dave there. Yeah.

And we started doing shows with them. Yeah, I think I picked up some of the history of the kids, but from whoever I talked to, probably Scott and Dave. Right. But not you and Mark's history. That's interesting. So when Mark shows up, you're already in with the guys? Yeah, yeah.

And Mark and I work together all the time. We love to be together on stage. Yeah. So it formed from way back. Yeah. And like, so when it finally took shape, where would you, were you guys working? Where was the theater? Where was the one that, you know?

We went to the Rivoli, which was like an alternative rock club. Yeah. It was in Queen Street West. It was the cool, cool place. Yeah. And we didn't do well for a very long period of time. And then- The kids.

Yeah. And then eventually we- Were there originally like 12 of you? No there was like five different other guys and they sort of went and got jobs and you know they weren't they weren't staying in entertainment yeah no they did they just did other things they were just like enough of us right yeah and uh and then you took off we ultimately just took off but you know i mean everyone's history is like you know oh it oh he and then Lorne Michaels found them. Like it took forever.

It felt like it took forever. Yeah. You know, as a young man, it takes, you know, your time is so important. It's been six months. You know, now it's like six months. Oh, I don't know. I did a pilot.

Oh, it's not going. Okay, I'll see you again next year. I got my money for a year. That's right. It's weird that you still think that way when you are in this business. It's sort of like, how long is this money going to last? Yeah, I know. And there's never a point where you're like, I'm good.

Yeah, I'm good. I can coast now for a while. I'm done. Yeah. So, okay. So, eventually, we don't have to fast forward, but you did, Lauren Michaels did find you. You produced a show. And then't did it

become a hit here immediately um no i think it just you know comedy central was just starting then right and well we're on hbo initially but i think repetition helped us i think they just played it all the time all right when i was there like what year are we talking because i i hosted short attention span theater in 92 right and they were all done by them because I know that Nick McKinney had his sketch show on right what was that lot 57 what was it what was his called vacant lot yeah vacant lot yeah so that was in production I think when I was there so you guys were kind of the old men already yeah we were done you're done already out of there yeah so who are you dealing with over there initially so Lauren did it for HBO and you did how many on HBO uh we well we did, I think two seasons.

I mean, we did five seasons in total. In both places. Yeah, but it took forever, you know, because we wrote most of the stuff. So our seasons would be like

14, 15 months long. Yeah. Yeah, but we were burnt out. Mark was the only guy who wanted to go on. Really? Yeah. And that's why he went

to Saturday Night Live. It's like, oh, I still like sketch comedy, you know? But that was after the movie debacle? Yeah, kind of at the, sort of at the same time, yeah. So like, oh, I still like sketch comedy, you know? But that was after the movie debacle? Yeah, kind of at the, sort of at the same time, yeah. So, like, what happened with that?

With Brain Candy? Yeah. Well, I think. Because you guys have always been a cult following, and there's, like, definitely kids in the hall, fanatics, and people who love you forever. I imagine now, like, you have, you know, boys and girls who are in their 50s. Right. You know, who are still kind of dressing like they're in their 30s coming up to you going, hi.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Goth girls with daddy issues. Yeah. But now they're 50. Yeah, yeah. But daddy issues don't go away, Mark. Don't you know that?

I know. They just turn into other things. Usually it's food or drinking. Or collecting weird dolls. Yeah, yeah. Like cats. food or drinking or collecting weird dolls yeah yeah like cats but uh but like what like the the movie in in retrospect what happened with it like because i know there was the cancer boy debacle yeah where i played cancer boy and i had to talk i had to talk the guy who had financed the movie

which wasn't paramount with somebody else uh into keeping Cancer Boy. And I talked to him for about two hours. Yeah. And then I started to cry. And I said, this is important to me because my mom died of cancer. Is that true? No. Because we just talked about it. She's still alive.

Yeah, because my job was to get Cancer Boy in the movie. So I did whatever it took. Because it was just a fight to be fought or you believed in it so much? I feel like I was sent by the troop to do it and I was the guy. I'm the pugilist. So everyone was on board. Yeah, everyone was on board.

We can't lose Cancer Boy. Yeah, but it was. And then Lauren said, well, you just lost the war because they're pulling all the ad money. You know, so- Lauren produced the movie? Yeah.

So now what, like, let's talk about that because I've had those kinds of things where you're like, I'm doing something. You knew the thing worked. Had you done it live? We didn't know it worked. No, we hadn't done it. We had done it in the show.

And it was called, they wouldn't call him, let us call him Cancer Boy on CBC. We had to call him Dying Kid, which is actually worse. Because cancer you can come back from. You might bounce back. Not Dying Kid. He might have made it. Not Dying Kid. Yeah.

So we, but we just just we were fighting for our thing you know it's so funny isn't it when you look back on it out of all the things you have out of all the characters you all did you're gonna put it all on the line for cancer boy yeah and it was important it was really important because i'm a punk and i like that was like and i i took so much from the troop in a certain way like i wouldn't let anybody dress me. So we weren't on the cover of GQ because I wouldn't wear a suit that wasn't one that I brought from a thrift shop. I understand that. And it was like I had to be that way. And it was like, wow, you weren't a lot of fun.

I had very strict punk rules. Yeah. Authentic. Yeah. And if I really knew myself, I could have probably just worn a suit and been on GQ to let the other guys, you know, wanted to do it. Did they all get dressed? Did they all let them get dressed?

Nope. It was, you know, you can't do it if you're all not doing it. Oh, really? Yeah. Bruce isn't wearing a suit. So we can't, we all got to wear our own clothes or we're not going to- No, there's no GQ cover. Thanks, Bruce.

Fuck another one. But you stood together. Yeah, we did yeah i think not always like oh what's oh my god he goes on and on what are they going on about him and mark what are they going on about yeah so many opinions you put it up with it yeah and that's what kind of eventually broke you i don't know if it broke us i think you know we love each other we're kind to each other i think we just you just get worn out. Like bands get worn out. Sure.

But okay. So the Cancer Boy thing. So you go to the mats for that thing. Yeah. And they keep it in the movie. And you did that with the producer of the film. And then Paramount was like, no. Well, whoever.

Yeah. Yeah. We're not doing it. So. And Lauren says, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We sort of lost the war.

We won the battle. You know, but. Was he behind Cancer Boy? I think he was wonderful, actually, in letting us do what we were going to do. Yeah. And so he wouldn't,

I don't think he would go, pull Cancer Boy from the fucking film. It's so obvious. Like, I think he probably wanted to say that, but he really was wonderful in letting us have our own way. He trusted us somehow.

And it's like, oh, it was our career to F up. Yeah. Do you have any regrets about Cancer Boy? Not really. Yeah. I'd want both things. And I honestly don't think the film would have been much more successful

even if we had more ad money. It's such a weird little piece. Yeah. And it was more fraught with what we were going through. So it was a very kind of a sad movie in some ways. Yeah. And I think that's what it felt like it wasn't you couldn't hide the sadness I know I think you're able to you know for your entire

career is kind of like what's the word that I want alchemically take darkness and make it into flowers yeah and now the darkness was pervasive no it was weeds now yeah I remember saying to Kevinvin um even if this film makes 200 million dollars it won't be worth it you know as as they had we had a call sheet that said all calls add seven hours it's like i've never seen a call sheet like that really because it was just like crazy really yeah like you couldn't land on something well no no we were just in so many characters and they're scrubbing your face in the middle of the night, and you had to go from Alice to Grevo, and you're just exhausted. Yeah.

You're exhausted. And, okay, so after that, you all kind of were like, there was no volatility. I mean, there was no bad blood. No, I think we were tired of each other, and then when we finally came back in 2000, we did some live shows. Yeah.

And it was like, oh, I guess we'll do them. Yeah. And it was sort of begrudging. Yeah. And then it was like oh i guess we'll do them yeah you know and it was sort of begrudging yeah and then was like wow people you know and we sold well and fast yeah you know and we're happy to see you again and it was it's actually more interesting because like now we don't sell like that and it's like we got to try to sell tickets milwaukee soft you know and it's it's better it brings you, right? You mean now? Yeah. When was the last time you did it? I think three years ago.

Uh-huh. Yeah. But it was sort of a big deal still, wasn't it? Yeah. We still fill a hall, but, you know, they're not like, before it was like, oh, my, how many shows can we add? We're doing five in Vancouver? Well, that's the thing about the blues guy thing. Yeah.

Is that, like, you know, if the people that were your fans from when they were kids, they're all in their 40s now, probably, at least. Yeah. Is that like, you know, if the people that were your fans from when they were kids, they're all in their 40s now probably at least. Yeah. Right? So they're like, I can't get out

to see the guys. Yeah. I got a life. Yeah. Can't get a sitter. Can't, you know, I can't get off my couch. Whatever the fuck it is.

It's different when they're grownups. Yeah. And sometimes they come, sometimes they don't. Yeah. I remember, I loved Lou Reed.

Sometimes I'd go see him, sometimes I wouldn't. You know? Yeah. Did you see Lou a few times? Yeah. A few times. And Iggy, I loved the, sometimes they don't. I remember I loved Lou Reed. Sometimes I'd go see him, sometimes I wouldn't. Yeah, did you see Lou a few times? Yeah, a few times. And Iggy, I loved. Oh, man, I saw Iggy once in Florida just on a fluke. I think he had just moved down there, and I was visiting my mother, and he was playing some club that only had seated 200 people.

And they announced it. I don't even know how we heard about it. I'm like, we've got to fucking go. It was great. Well, I remember in calgary i saw him and his band left on him and in the end so he just did like an encore like the drummer came back and he was just like playing drums and doing an encore it was like crazy but it was it was so wild was he climbing the walls and he was doing all that stuff yeah he's something else yeah i

talked to him uh in the old garage right yeah he like. We came out on the deck and we were about to go in the garage and he was like, oh, I just need to... And he's stretching and then the shirt comes off. Right. And I sat with him across from him with the shirt on. Why the shirt? Did you ask him why the shirt off? Do you really need to ask him?

I mean, you think you're going to get... No. I don't know. It's just Iggy. Right. I think it has something... It might have had something to do, it's weird because he's got to occupy Iggy Pop and Jim Osterberg.

Right. And Jim Osterberg, you know, Henry Rollins made, he makes a distinction. Right. That, you know, you're either talking to Iggy or you're talking to Jim. Right. And I think that maybe he wanted to start as Iggy, but I got Jim eventually. Right. Which was good.

Good. Because Jim's a very smart man. Right. And a survivor. Well, that's good to know. He meant so much to me as Iggy, but I got Jim eventually, which was good. Good. Because Jim's a very smart man. Right. And a survivor. Well, that's good to know. He meant so much to me as a young man. Oh, you never listened to him talk? No, I don't think I have, really.

He's very intelligent, and his memory is like a steel drum, dude. I mean, you're like, you make these assumptions about certain people that you respect, certainly musicians. Like, when Keith Richards wrote that book, I was like, what the fuck? Oh, no, I couldn't believe it and also well i'm i'm i'm a bit obsessed with the stones as well and i've read lots of books about love the bigger banquet or whatever it's like he's fastidious we all think he's always just out there blasted playing his guitar no he works so hard on this stuff and he's like very intellectual and you know it was like it was opened up it was like such a lesson in misjudgment i know without question i felt but then when you really it was like it was opened up it was like such a lesson in misjudgment

i know without question i felt but then when you really think back on it or you even think about it as a grown-up was like of course he's fucking smart how the hell can you stay as the stones for as long as they have right keep generating keep getting your shit together like you know there's no number of people that can just wheel those guys out they're not that kind of band they got to be sharp as fuck and they have to come together in a way too which is i really respect about him when they tour and stuff it's like he's not going out to like be the beach boys and like who's playing the hits they have to come together as a as a unit oh yeah and you go if you go see him especially at the beginning of a tour which i did last time i've only seen him like twice in my life but i went to see the last tour like the first show and it took them a couple songs right to you know sort of like oh are they

gonna yeah they're gonna line up and they do right they did it's they're really playing yeah it's pretty wonderful so how did we get here oh i remember uh touring like you know as we get older i like this whole yeah i compared myself to the rolling stones no i had not kids in the hall were the pixies. We've always said that. I just listened to Doolittle the other day. Right.

All the way through. Yeah. What a great band. What a great band. Did you know him? I didn't. I wish I'd met them. I'm sure Dave has.

Yeah? He's met everybody. Oh, yeah. Well, he's out in the world. Yeah, he's out in the world. I'm not. Yeah, having a few cocktails. Not anymore.

It's done? Yeah. How long? A few years. Wow. Yeah. Good for him. Yeah, he's looking great. He's doing great. Does he feel better? He must feel better. Probably's done? Yeah. How long? A few years. Wow. Yeah. Good for him. Yeah. He's looking great.

He's doing great. Does he feel better? He must feel better. Probably in worse. Yeah. I haven't seen him in a while. I should check in with him. Get Dave in here.

But you were friends with Gord Downey too, right? Very good friends, yeah. Did I say his last name right? Downey. Downey, yeah. Well, sorry for your loss. Well, thank you. And I'm sad that, because there was a little bit of momentum trying to get me to talk to him but i just i didn't know the work that much i would have felt

like i would have done a disservice he is he was such an amazing guy yeah and you know i don't know if you know he's did so much work with the first nations people yeah at the end of his life but when i saw i saw their last tour it was the greatest thing i'd ever seen in my life i wish i grew up with it i wish i knew the music better i, in a one-man show I'm doing now, I actually do something which I don't normally do. I share, because we're very good friends, I share a bunch of our late-night emails that we send back and forth

that are both very savage, very funny. You know, when they go on tour, I say, oh, this is clearly a ploy to make money. But I misspelt it. Yeah. It was plow to make money. It's like, great, he's got fucking brain cancer and he's got to figure out

my non sequitur. So it's really, it's really wonderful for the audience that they, you know. When did they start? They started about when we did. Uh-huh.

So they were, you know, we're very parallel to them in many ways and they were gigantic, you know. Yeah. Gigantic.

And I was actually at Atlantic Records at the same time as them. They, by mistake, sent me their contract. Oh, is that true? Yeah, but I didn't look at it because I'm cool. It's like the Kevin McDonald problem that I had. Yeah.

You just got there. Why? Just because it was on the Canadian set? Yeah, I guess it was. Yeah. But how, like, because I guess I didn't really, like, it turns out when I really sit down and think about it, I'm a lot more out of touch than I think I am. But they were definitely probably bigger in Canada, right?

Oh, without question. They play Maple Leaf Gardens three nights. How big is that place? 18,000. Jeez. Yeah, they play any place. Oh, man, it's so sad. How old was he?

He was 56, maybe? Oh, my God. Yeah, and such a good guy. Yep. Well, that's interesting in the show. Because I've noticed that a bit lately with people of our generation, the blues men. Yep.

Like Adam Sandler, and even I watched Springsteen's one-man show. He's a little older. But they're definitely taking time to do tributes in a way. Sandler talked about Farley, and Springsteen talked about Clarence Clemens but like it's definitely a piece of the show yeah where you kind of honor a lost

friend yeah and what is the new one-man show uh it's just called Tales of Bravery and Stupidity it's just the weird shit I've done in my life yeah which is probably sometimes to get material like I you know do you consciously do that no well I you know it's like my wife says oh let's go to Pismo Beach for the weekend and there's the Sea Vista looks really crappy and I think yeah maybe we'll go there it could be a story yeah yeah yeah and of course you find a dirty diaper in the Sea Vista yeah you know it's like good so it's just you know I love gold I love yeah I love storytelling you know as much as more than stand-up where you kill them um and so it's that stuff yeah I mean they're used to that was one of those weird lines that you know i i had to cross at some point where you know when i was a

younger man where before i i ended up desperately doing one person shows at one point in my career where it's sort of like that's a cop out right just can't you know got the goods yeah you just got to you know lengthen it out and you don't have to worry about laughs. Right. But you did stand up and you say that we met on a stand-up show. Yeah, I think at the Poor Alex. No, at, sorry, Steve Allen. Oh, okay, okay. You did stand up there. Yeah.

You did 12 M's of C, minutes of comedy. Yeah. Yeah. And you didn't like stand-up? I like stand-up and I still do it. You do? I'm going to do it next-up and I still do it. You do? I'm going to do it next week at Kevin's show, Toronto. Kevin McDonald?

Yeah. I like stand-up, but it's sometimes nice to be in a theater, you know, and people there just to see you. Yeah. I remember I did- Without the pressure. I did the improv with Janine a few years ago. Yeah. And I thought, I've worked my whole life to go to, have people come see me

who know me and here I am at the improv and there's like a 50 year old woman celebrating her birthday drunk at the table. It's like, eh, maybe not.

Yeah. Well, that's like, that's the other thing that's weird about like, about doing it now that I finally after, you know,

two decades, can, you know, have enough fans to sell a theater out. Right. I still feel like it's part of my job as a comic

to go into a place where at least a third of the room doesn't fucking know me and do the job. Yeah, I think it's noble. I actually do. I think it's cool. You know, win them over. Yeah. But then like midway into that set,

you're like, I don't really care about these people. What, and I have to do a show after this? Yeah. No, I don't mind that, but it's just sort of like, even though there's the people that don't know me, some of them I can feel like they still don't care. And it's sort of like, all right, fine.

I don't care if you don't care. And, you know, the next guy will be fun for you, hopefully. It'll be your cup of tea. Yeah, I remember I did stand-up not too long ago, and then I thought I was pretty funny, and then Tom Papa went on. It's like, I'm funny, but then there's Tom Papa. It's a whole other thing. He's tight, man.

Oh, and it's just chemically so different. The whole audience comes. He's raising his arms like they just go crazy. He's got tight craft, that Papa. Yeah. He's on top of it. Not a missing beat. Everything is honed.

Each beat, each word. Yeah, he's a great comic. So, The One Man Show. Now uh are you doing it and just in canada i'm doing it canada now i'll do i'll do some dates in the states are you doing like a run you got a theater you're doing like i'm touring around oh you don't have a like you're not just at one place no i know i that's too hard yeah to do to do a month somewhere okay so now after the kids, let's talk about this L.A. period. Right. Because I always knew that the other guys were more visible, but you were working a lot behind the camera, and you became that guy.

Yeah. I directed a few films. And I think the last part of my career, I kind of got caught in a success trap, which was I probably did 15 pilots for like NBC. You were doing the development thing. Doing the thing. And it's like, oh, great. I sold it in the room. And then I sold another one the next day.

And it's like, and then you realize, oh, they don't make most of them. Yeah. And so I'd get paid out and people go, where have you been? I've been working. Yeah. I did one day on Arrested Development. Well, that's what people think. Regular people, they're like, he must not be doing well.

I've seen he shows up every five years as a bit player. Yeah. And well, I never like I never did any tried to I never saw it in the acting or any of that stuff. So it was all I didn't know. I just and I've always thought of myself as a writer anyway. So, you know, like there's four very talented guys in the kids in the hall and then there's a guy with a jumbo head

who won't stand still and that's me. But you're very memorable. All your characters are memorable. Like when you were coming over, like I was like,

I know that guy because I remember, you know, like you were definitely an actor and a comedic performer. Well, I'm good in the kids in the hall.

You know, I don't know if I'm always good and I would always be good in something else. Yeah. So that was something you just admitted to yourself or that you think about yourself? Yeah. Well, I didn't seek it out. It's so interesting. I could go into a room and sell a show to 10 NBC executives, but I can't audition. I did one when I came here and Bobcat Goldthwait was there. I thought, I don't want to be in another waiting

room with Bobcat Goldthwait. Neither of us thought, I don't want to be in another waiting room with Bobcat Goldthwait. Neither of us are going to get it. That's the same thing that stopped you from letting them dress you for the GQ cover. I guess, yeah. They're sort of like,

how do I hold on to my strange ego-based integrity? Yeah, yeah. Why do I, because we're all so fragile. That sort of weird resistance where I'm going to wear

my own clothes is like, I don't need to go sit there and have my identity destroyed in a room full of people that are kind of like me waiting to do the one that I didn't even create. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. These words don't make any sense to me. Right. Yeah.

It's humiliating. Yeah. Someone can say these words or someone else can say these words. That's what I always think. I don't know. I could or someone else could. Yeah, yeah. Probably better than me.

You got the other guy to do it. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I could or someone else could. Yeah, yeah. Probably better than me. You got the other guy to do it. Yeah, yeah. I don't need to go over it. But you did find your way into directing and that was just a natural evolution? Because it seems like that's one of those things if you do a good job and you're nice to people that you keep getting work. Yeah. I did it. I started doing it during the Kids in the Hall because I did see past the Kids in the

Hall and I thought, I need a job after this. I'm not going to be getting another series. I don't want to do another series. Right. And I was always been the guy who was obsessed with the music and the extras and the thing and the thing. So it was sort of natural. And I, I was out of it for a while.

And then now I sort of, you know, I did a show called Young Drunk Punk where I. Canadian show? Yeah. I had, I had actually done a, a, a pilot with a Bill Burr and Kevin Hart just before Kevin broke at Comedy Central. And I kind of had wished I had directed it just because it was the communication. You wrote it? I wrote it with them.

Yeah. And then- You're one of those guys, like, we're going to set you up with a writer. Yeah. You know Bruce? Yeah. He's that stuff.

We need an adult in the room. Yeah. But so when I did Young Drunk Punk, I wanted to direct it. So I directed it. And then I started doing a little bit more. It's, I started, I wanted to direct it. So I directed it. And then I started doing a little bit more. It's like, oh, I actually really like directing. Yeah.

Because I had done, you know, I'd done Superstar and a couple of, and then I did the Tom Green movie where that gave my career a heart attack. You know. Did it? Yeah. Stealing Harvard, which again made $32 million in cost, whatever. And so I went through that Hollywood thing, which I didn't know that I was in film jail. And my agent wouldn't tell me that I wasn't going to get another job.

And so for a long time- Because it tanked? Yeah. And now I want to be a film director. They can't throw me out. Yeah. And then I was beating my head against the wall. And then I sort of moved into writing pilots and doing TV.

But you directed, like you did, like you worked on Schitt's Creek? Schitt's Creek. Trailer Park Boys. Yeah, Trailer Park Boys. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And then I'm going to direct all this series I'm doing now.

And what was the last series you did up in Canada? Was it Young Drunk Punk? Yeah. And I did another thing called This Blows blows which is about a girl who um she gets hit by a car and then now she can blow things up when she gets angry sort of a sci-fi thing how'd that go uh it was good it was a digital thing but it was really wonderful yeah uh my friend's kids were in it so that was so you keep working oh i work a lot yeah was there a period here where you were just sort of like what's gonna happen now kind of well but also when you sell a

pilot you make your money for the year. Right. And then it's like, oh, and January 9th, the year's over. Okay, I guess I'm- Go out again. Yeah, I'll go out in August again. So what did you do with that time? Just family time? Just family. Yeah.

Walk, run, whatever, you know, do stuff. But I'm always writing or doing something. And you and your wife have been together since- For 20 years. Oh. Yeah. And the kids are now, one started in your wife have been together since? For 20 years. Oh. Yeah. And the kids are now one start in high school?

Yeah, 12 and 14. Wow. Yeah. So you just kind of dug in? Just dug in. Yeah. Created a family because I came from a shitty one.

Yeah. And you're doing it better. I feel I am. And I couldn't, no one could do it worse. And what about the music career? Again, I was like, oh, I'm not gonna go

tour with my record you know that was a funny record yeah I did a couple actually but I I couldn't find the second one the drunk baby project should have brought it over for you

yeah I would have liked it I'm fine now yeah but the other one was funny and that got like people liked it no people really liked it I was happy with it

what was that one called shame based man who did the cover art on that his name is Marshall Erisman. That's quite a, it's like disturbing and good. Yeah, he's an Esquire cartoonist or illustrator. And I had bought a couple of his pieces that I'd seen in the magazine. And it's like, I want him to do it.

And he did it? Yeah. Isn't that exciting? And I went to a studio in New York and I was like, and I loved it. Yeah. That's the best thing. Painting. Yeah.

It's always good to enjoy the art of somebody that does, is working in a medium that has nothing to do with you and you can't do it. Oh no, well,

that's why I love music. You know, but it's like he, yeah, it's amazing. It's like, and that's the best thing. Marshall Erisman did my cover.

Yeah. Yeah. But that was like, do you see that, that was a comedy record really, right? Yeah, and it was kind of.

Kind of spoken word. Yeah, a little bit of that stuff. I don't smell many. Spoken word, I don't smell many. That was my Kevin MacDonald. So that was good. So how long have you been in Toronto now? Just four months.

And does it feel like, I'm home, thank God. No, it's complicated. There's no right decision, you know. I'm home, thank God. No, it's complicated. There's no right decision, you know. I like that city, though. Yeah, it's a great city, but it's, you know, and I'm Canadian. Yeah. You know, so I had to get my kids back there. Yeah.

I didn't want them to be soft in the Hollywood Hills. Yeah. And are any of the other kids up there just Kevin? Scott's back and forth. Mark's there sometimes, but he's always doing uh superstore here yeah so but everybody's and dave's here dave's here yeah yeah and you guys talk oh yeah uh we'll be doing something soon we don't you know we keep talking about it but yeah but the last tour a few years ago it was good enough to do it again yeah and i think what i mean we've

been talking about doing a sketch show for a long time now. And I think we'll end up doing it. Really? Yeah. With all you guys in it? Yeah. All the original members. People always ask us when we do a show, are they all the original members?

Who's it going to be? Yeah. You know. It's not like. Harlan Williams as Bruce McCullough. Bill Wyman doesn't want to travel anymore. Harlan Williams, Bruce McCullough. But like, how would you do it?

Like the, like in this, it's weird because i started thinking about it and we were talking about earlier this aging thing is like i don't feel bad but you know you can like i i was fortunate in that whatever relevance i accumulated which was not nearly as big as you guys happened when i was in my mid-40s, which was great. Thank God I pulled it off. But even now, after 10 years of my marginal relevance, I'm starting to think, like, you know, is it done? Where does it go? When do you know it's time to stop if you can? Well, you have to keep going.

This is what we learned. Yeah. Now, in thinking about approaching another Kids in the Hall project, you would call it the Kids in the Hall again? learned. Yeah. Now, in thinking about approaching another Kids in the Hall project, you would call it the Kids in the Hall again? Yeah. Yeah. We should call it Hee Haw 2. Is that what you're suggesting, Mark?

Well, I'm just saying. No, it's the original guys, but they're doing a new thing. Well, we'd be doing sketches, so a sketch is a sketch, right? A song is a song. Do you think you'd approach it differently and be more age appropriate? Well, we'd have to be. I mean, we play well you know we don't we don't play debutantes anymore you know we play old old billowy billowy ladies yeah yeah yeah i know when we when we did uh uh death comes to town our mini series that we had done it's like i remember looking at the footage going oh we really are older we really are really really older Yeah, I have that moment in the mirror some days.

Some days, you know, because you see yourself all the time, and you're like, there I am. And then one day you're like, oh, it's happening. Yeah, I remember once I'd written all night, and I looked at my face, and I said, oh, there's my 50-year-old face. Right. Yeah, and I was in my early 40s, I think. Yeah.

Yeah, there's my 50-year-old face. That's how it's going to be. Yeah. Well, I thought this went well. Do you? I thought it was wonderful. And I didn't want to tell you what a fan I am of this podcast because you would have not interviewed me.

That's not true. Yeah. Okay. The only thing that happens sometimes when people are fans is that they produce the show in their head. Right. And they're like, oh, this is where you can ask me about my dad. Okay.

So this is the part where you go, who are your guys? Yeah. I didn't have to do that with you. Well, so this is the part where you go, who are your guys? Yeah. I didn't have to do that with you. Well, good. Who are your guys, though? What do you mean? I mean, you know, like the people that inspired you the most outside of the brothers. I don't know.

We talked about it musically. Yeah, it's just more musically. Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah, in Iggy, The Damned. Yeah, all those people. Tragically hip. Yep.

But who was the one that blew your mind the first time? Was it T-Rex? Well, I still remember when they put on God Saves the Queen. I still remember that feeling in the back of my neck like ecstasy was coming for me. I'll never forget that, how that felt. That was it. Like, what the fuck is this? I want to crawl inside it yeah yeah and

you stayed there yeah and now we're old and we made it through yeah nice talking to you yeah nice talking to you sir i like those canadians that was that was a nice chat he's a nice guy and he's funny in a very specific, unique way. Bruce McCullough, Tales of Bravery and Stupidity is his one-person show, soon to be a book, and watch out for Tall Boys, which is a sketch comedy show that he produced and directed. There's pastries

right there. Right, like, eight of them. But two of them are just chocolates. They're just little, they're just little chocolates. Yeah, maybe I'll... Boomer lives! You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. We'll be right back. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence.

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