WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1023 - David Letterman

Episode Date: May 30, 2019

David Letterman started out doing the very thing that scared him to death - getting up in front of strangers and trying to make them laugh. Now after wrapping up a legendary and influential career as late night host, Dave talks with Marc about his early days at The Comedy Store, his enjoyment of the longform interviews he’s doing for Netflix, and his focus on the hard work of becoming a better person. Dave also reveals his favorite thing about his old show and the one comic he always thought was the funniest, despite everything else that happened between them. This episode is sponsored by Turo and Starbucks Tripleshot Energy. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing with cannabis legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category.

legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! store and ACAS Creative. What the fuck, buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fucksters? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF, which I do out of my home.

I generally do it out of the garage, but to let them do the work that needs to be done in the garage, it's now in my house, upstairs, in my house, right next to my bedroom, right down the hall from the bathroom. It's in my house. I don't know why I'm making a point of saying that, but I just wanted to make a point of saying that. Today on the show, my guest in my house is David Letterman. Now, I'm going to talk about that experience or how I felt leading up to that experience. But first, for some reason, I need to talk about John Lennon for a minute. Last night, I guess this is mostly about, you know, reverence and people that have an effect on your life or people that you look up to. I am talking primarily about artists. Well, you know, we're all the same.

We are all people. people but there are amazing people and there are people that for whatever reason in your life that you develop a relationship with you know in your heart in your mind because of their work and I just had the weirdest experience last night because I was it was a documentary I watched this documentary on Netflix it was called Above Us Only Sky I didn't know what it was and you know you get to a point in life where you think you've seen all you need to see in documentary footage, or, you know, you think, you know, all you need to know about certain people, or, or maybe it's sort of like, nah, but it was John Lennon. And I was like, all right, you know, I've got, I've had, I have time these days to reflect and think about my future and, you know, all the positives and negatives that

come along with some sort of mental or emotional transition I'm experiencing and I just settle in to watch this documentary I know nothing about and it's about it's about John Lennon and Yoko Ono it's about the making of Imagine but it's also about the relationship but the bottom line was is there's a lot of footage of both of them and there's a lot of footage of John just them and there's a lot of footage of john just being john i mean he's got to be in his early 30s he's up in a mansion in uh in in england and he he's they're just working on this album and and the relationship with yoko is sort of redefining him and changing his heart and changing his mind and making him see the world in a different way

but i i just look, I always, who doesn't like the fucking Beatles? And, you know, I always knew that John was my Beatle, but watching this thing, I was just overwhelmed with this love of John Lennon that like, it was always sort of there, but I've kind of let it go dormant. I mean, you can't walk around just, you know,

actively loving John Lennon every day, but it just tapped into something that I'd sort of forgotten in myself that, you know, I had such a reverence for this guy. I had such a deep love for John Lennon. And to see all this footage that I'd never seen before of him just being himself among other people, you know, in dealing with other musicians and him sort of working with Yoko and working with musicians. There's one scene in the doc where a drifter shows up and he sort of empathetically deals with him, but it was just John and the spirit of John. And I was just so overwhelmed. I was so overwhelmed to experience it.

It was fucking beautiful. And I just, I was able to just listen to John Lennon records for two days and just really get into the pain and heart and elevation of this guy's art, of John Lennon. Maybe I'm just turning into an old man, but I guess I had just forgotten how much I love John Lennon. And just seeing him young and vital and changing and creating this amazing record and that amazing song with Yoko was just too much for me. It just kind of ripped me open, and I let it happen. I let the love in, folks. I was by myself, and I was sitting there. But I let it happen, and I was tearing up and just so excited because I guess I had not really, I'd forgotten just how much of an impact that guy had on me.

And this is the other thing too about your heroes. Obviously, I'm not going to interview John Lennon. So Letterman is here. There's a couple of things I need to tell you. There's a couple of things I need to sort of set this up up I think I've been on his show four times maybe five I should have probably done that research I told him I think it's four or five I think I did maybe four maybe I did three stand-ups and one panel four times in the 25 years that he was on the tv so doing the Letterman show was really one of the biggest things in my life. But I think before I get into that, I think it's important to mention that, I mean, you might wonder, you know, if you're listening to this, why I didn't talk about the Late Show or hosting the Oscars or, you know, these big career moments that obviously I'm talking about like I've heard them before because most of us have heard them before i mean he's done those interviews before and the thing about letterman in my life is the personal journey to be on his show but also more importantly uh the the history of this show of wtf really is sort of you know there's part of it there's a there's a through

line here around the comedy store around the comedy store's impact on modern comedy, around the comedy store's impact on me. The players at the comedy store, both from the past and present and of my generation. But Letterman was really one of the original comedy store guys in the 70s. And I never hear him talk about that. And I've talked to a few of his peers. And I just wanted to talk to David Letterman as a comic and uh you know I wanted to talk to him as a person but there was sort of a thrust to it you know that he was integral not just as a host in terms of giving

giving comedians opportunities but as a comic himself so yeah there's definitely a bit of a lean on that area. And we talk about other things. We talk about mistakes he's made, regrets, things that have moved him. But a lot of, you know, this is a comic to comic interview here. And that was completely by design because I didn't have that much time with him and you know what do you want to catalog everything he's already you know said before somewhere else so you know we tried to you know i tried to get into the i get into the groove of that and uh and i i gotta tell you man i mean you know it took me a while to wrap my brain around the fact that he was coming to my house because you got to understand something you know there's the comics of his generation you know talk about getting on carson and how that was a

a game changer and from the beginning of my comedy career you want to get on letterman i used to watch letterman when i was at college i was watching his late night show you know from the very beginning when i was in college and i used to see richard lewis on there jay leno on there george miller on there guys who he would let sit down. I mean, watching Richard Lewis do panel on David Letterman's original show, The Late Night Show, not The Daytime Show. I was just like, that is the biggest honor that you could have in my mind as a comic is like you just hang out with Dave and you do some panel. Dave and you do some panel. Conan let me do panel. And it was all I wanted to be was I was just wanting to be a panel guest and be the guy that just dropped by a few times a year to do his thing and talk with the host. And Conan gave me that opportunity. But there was always this thing

where it's like, I got to, how do I get on Letterman? I used to see comics on there all the time and it was just so important. There was such a reverence that I had for Dave. He was my guy. He was my late night guy. I loved him. And I loved, you know, the way he interacted with people and it changed over the years. But when I was younger, a young comic is like, I just want to I just want to do Dave, man. first time man that first time I did David Letterman that was like you know I look back on it and I watch it and I you know I I didn't make the best uh clothing decisions I went out and bought a suit like the day before and it was much more shiny than I remembered it in the store and it's a pretty shiny suit that I'm wearing on my first Letterman but I remember being so specific and you know wanting to be you know know, just, I just wanting it to be perfect. And I worked that set and I told them like, it was one of the first times I'm like, I don't need, don't give me a mic. You know, I see guys on these shows holding mics. You don't

have to, you're in a theater and they got you, you know, they got a boom mic. They got to, you know, usually have a lav on you. I just want to do it old school, you know, just stand out there, have my hands free, no mic, and it's cold in there, and Biff is at the curtain, and you go out, and it was like, it was a cathartic and monumental moment. It was one of the biggest moments of my life to be on Dave Letterman for the first time. And then after you do it once, you're like, when am I going to get on again? And it was very sparse for me, you know? But then I got to do panel with him finally like it's not long before he went off the air I got to sit down with him and it was just like it was one of the greatest

experiences of my life in show business was to just be able to walk out and sit and tell tell Letterman the Mel Brooks story now the weird thing is is is that, you know, he's coming over. He came over the other day and I could not, I couldn't even imagine it that, that I'd had him in such a place in my brain and in my career. Like, I don't, I didn't think that he would know me or anything, but it's almost like I didn't feel worthy for him to come over that David Letterman, like this is a guy that your whole life is this mysterious character who has this amazing show, who's, who's truly a funny man and a great broadcaster and a great host. But you had him in this place as a comic in your mind, like, you know, you talked about him,

like he was almost a mythological creature. Like, you know, like no one really knew him or anything. You're just going to do his show. And that was what you worked for. And he was coming to my house. It was weird. It was really a weird sort of like, this is, this is crazy. I mean, president Obama coming to my old house, that was crazy. But David Letterman coming over, it was like, this just doesn't seem right.

I mean, this is not how life goes that That David Letterman's coming to my house. What are you kidding me? But he did. He he he came over to my house. So, OK, you ready for me and Dave? Here's the other thing I want you to know about Dave is that Dave is a man. Who is had great success in his life. He's had some pain in his life. He's made mistakes in his life. He has regrets. And he's definitely owning who he is and has a willingness to change. And he's tried to own his mistakes.

And he's a slightly heavy-hearted guy, but he's also a humble dude. And I think, you know, it just, that's the one thing that was amazing. You know, once he did finally come over, I'm like, this is Dave, man. He's, you know, he's a little softer than he used to be.

And he seems a little more humble. I think maybe a little happier, very willing to be open. He seems much more vulnerable, certainly, than he was on TV in real life. And he seems contrite about the mistakes he's made and also willing to change. And I think he speaks to that. You watch his show, his new show, season two of My Next Guest Needs No Introduction with David Letterman. That launches on Netflix this Friday, May 31st. But if you watch the first season, he's definitely a guy trying to reach out, trying to make right his wrongs,

trying to own them, but also still interested in people, probably more interested in people now than he ever has been and certainly willing to talk and show himself a little more. So I got him at a good time. But as you'll hear, you know, once he got here, we did all right. You know, he came upstairs and and it was I was talking to a comedian, David Letterman, and and I'm sharing it with you now. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know, we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by

the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Well, it's good to see you, Dave. Good to see you. And what I was going to say was I've known about you and the podcast actually before I knew about podcasts. And I am under the impression and reinforced many ways, many times that you are kind of the breakthrough

podcast pioneer. Yes. I'm guilty. Well, you know, gosh, good for you. This is, I mean, what a great forum, what a great format. Yeah. Now, so the other night, I said, I better listen to this because I had not listened to a podcast in my life. I don't know how to get them.

Neither does my dad. Well, yes, that's about right. Well, you're not that much older than me, but he hasn't how to get them. Neither does my dad. Well, yes, that's about right. You're not that much older than me, but he hasn't listened to one yet. He hasn't listened to one of the thousand episodes. It might be more personal, but what were you saying? So you listen to one? How old is your father? 80.

Oh, okay. Well, all right. He and I are in the same dark space of ignorance. Anyway, so I listened to Angelica Houston. Oh, yeah. You and Angelica Houston. Yeah. Now, I know Angelica Houston only because I think she was a guest on the show a few times.

Yeah. I know of her, I guess her father is John. John, sure. And there's Walter. Yeah. So that's how I know of her. Yeah. And I know that she was romantically involved with Jack Nicholson.

Yes. And so I thought, well, okay, this may not have been one that I would have picked as, oh, come on in, kids. It's Angelica Houston. Yeah. So I started listening to it, and I was dumbstruck because it was so darn interesting. Yeah. So I started listening to it and I was dumbstruck because it was so darn interesting. Yeah. And I thought there's there's it's 50 50. Yeah. There's only two choices for why this is interesting.

And I voted for you. Thanks, man. Yeah, it was cool. You OK with this? Yeah, I'm OK. Yeah. Well, you know, know, I was a little nervous. You know, I watched some of your show, The Long Form Show. I was nervous because, you know, I spent about half of my life, you know, just trying to get on your show. And the idea that you were coming to my house, I was like, I don't think this is right somehow. I don't – you can't just come over. It doesn't – I can't do it. This is a real kick for me. Yeah. And

how many times were you on the show? I think I did stand up three times and I did panel towards the end there. I told the story. We sat and I told you the Mel Brooks, Carl Reiner story. But yeah, I did stand up three times. The first time I bought a shiny suit that I looked back, looking back on it, I'm not proud of it. I don't know why it was shiny, but it was. And then I think the second time I sat down briefly after the set and you leaned in and said, you can make that stuff work on the road. Now, what was the point of that?

Was it somehow to be encouraging, discouraging? Was it sarcasm? How did I take it? Yeah. I thought that meant that you thought the jokes were smart and that they would probably— Oh, okay. Let's stop right there. Yeah.

Because I was wrong. No, I think you were right. Yeah. And good. I'm glad you didn't take it as an insult. No, I did you were right. Yeah. And good. I'm glad you didn't take it as an insult. No, I did not. Good. And it's so, but I watched like two minutes of your show at the beginning.

I watched the whole Kanye episode. But then at the very beginning, I noticed something because I still work at the comedy store. All right. I was there last night and I had an old man moment. Like I was supposed to bring up Ron White and he stepped up because he was doing a drop-by, and I looked at him, and I did not know his name for about three seconds. It was terribly embarrassing.

Get used to it. Did that happen when you know people? It happens to me all the time. And what I do, and the people that I worked with for years on the show, I would just invent a name that I thought reminded me of what the actual name sounded like. Oh, really? And then it would become charades.

Yeah. Okay, let's see. Mona Farbender. Mona Farbender. Is it Jackie? Oh, no, Kathy Gifford. Yes, it's Kathy Gifford. But you said Mona Farbender.

Well, I couldn't remember Kathy Gifford. That was my reminder word. But I just had a moment when I'm watching you, and you said you were scared to interview him. But then when you walked out, the moment is really odd that I focused in on. It was just how you grabbed the mic out of the stand. And I was like, it's so second nature when you're a stand-up to just pull the mic out.

And then when you put it back in, I'm like, see that? He knows how to do that. When I was doing the show, toward the end of the show, my favorite part of it, and it makes perfect sense if you think about how long I had done it. My favorite part of it was talking to the audience. Right. And I had one of those tie microphones that everybody wears. And I said, I don't want to do the warm-up with that.

I want to have a hand microphone. Yeah. The same thing. Right. And it's the stand, and you can adjust it, and you can move it, and you can pull it out. It's like home, right? And you can lean onto it. You can lean into it.

You can pick it up and slam it. Yeah. And this goes back to 1975. Yeah. 75, right? That's right. I mean, because I was thinking about that, like, just that moment of grabbing the stand. And I'm like, I'm still there.

You know, I got to show you something. Hold on. This might weird you out. I seem to be alone now. I don't know why I have this, but I can tell you how I got it. Okay. But for some reason, it means a lot to me. This is the driver's license for, oh, my gosh.

I know. Well, a crime has been committed here. This is Mitzi Shore's driver's license. It is, man. Mark, how did you, I mean, first of all, why were you rifling through her purse? That's right. Here's the thing, you know, Binder, Mike.

Yep. Peter Shore kind of, like, I interviewed B i interviewed binder here right and he was like i want to talk about the comedy store and then i started to how could you not want to this is that's where you come from and then he started talking about it and then it kind of got into his brain and then peter short reeled him in to make a documentary about the place right right right you know he reached out to you yes well he i think I'm actually visiting with him tomorrow great so so he wanted me to be there when he did he did a bunch of footage in Mitzi's office and they were gonna go through some stuff that he had permission and he wanted me to be the guy to be in there with him and as I was

walking out this driver's license was on the floor and I'm like I think I have to have that Wow it feels a little weird and a little wrong but no no now with that. It feels a little weird and a little wrong, but- No, no. Now with that explanation, it feels just right. Right. And Sammy Shore just passed. Just passed. Yeah. That's great.

Did you know him though? I must have met him, but by the time I came to California, he was out of that business. Right. Yeah. But yeah, I- Not out of comedy, but out of the comedy store business. Right. Yeah.

You lost the store to Mitzi. See, like for me, didn't this give you the chills a the comedy store business. Right. Yeah. You lost the store to Mitzi. See, like for me, didn't this give you the chills a little bit? Yes, absolutely. First of all, she's very young looking in that. And I only remember her, she was stricken after this time. Yeah. And I don't remember her looking that hardy. She reminds me of when I was younger.

So you came here in 75? 75, yeah, May of 75. And before that, you hadn't done comedy, but you'd done broadcast. A lot of broadcasting, television and radio. And I used to have to, when you're doing local broadcasting, they would like you to go out and do things. Remotes. Well, no, not so much remotes, but just appearances. Yeah.

And it used to petrify me to have to go out and be in front of audiences. So I said to myself, well, let's don't be stupid about this. Yeah. Let's don't do that. So I stopped doing it. And then when I moved to California, I realized I am now about to go back into the very thing that scared me to death, which was trying to make strangers laugh. But when you started out, I mean, you grew up in Indiana. Yeah. Yeah. And your folks were not in show business. No.

What'd your dad do? He owned a flower shop. That's nice. Yep. How could that be bad? It was good, except that he was not a good businessman. His first choice in life would have been to be in entertainment. Really?

Yeah. Yeah. He could play the piano very well, and he was funny. And I think he ended up in the wrong lane. And I think you turned on him, you know, 10 years before he died. So that was too bad. He got sad or angry about the flower shop? Drunk. Oh, really? Yeah, I was an alcoholic. And I always felt, you know, I don't know your situation with your parents. Yeah.

But my father could have easily done what I have done. You're right. And I wish he had. You think it would have made him happier? Yes. Yes, I do. Well, it's sort of sad, though, if he had a flower shop and he was miserable. I just thought of.

But you know what it was? Every opportunity he turned into church functions, he would be the emcee. Yeah. And later when he went into AA, he was in heaven because he had an audience. Oh, yeah. That's a good room. I'm in it. Yeah. And he loved that. He loved being the center of attention and would tell jokes. And he invited me to go to a meeting once after he entered the program. And I did, and he was running the show and I had never seen so many people smoking so much and drinking so much coffee. Back when you could do that.

Yeah. Yeah. How old were you then? I was 25, I suppose. Oh, so he got sober. He lived sober for a while? For a while, yeah. Yeah.

Continued to smoke and then died when he was 57. Oh, my God. How old were you? Mid to late 20s. Oh that's young yeah what tell me about your family well my mom uh my dad is a kind of a a little bipolar and my mom what what did he do though when he was around he's a he's a surgeon oh really yeah uh orthopedopedic. Yeah. When did he stop doing that? He kind of got pushed out. He retired not too, it's probably been about 15, 20 years.

Yeah. But they're very focused, self-involved, megalomaniacal people. But I always found them charismatic and entertaining. Well, that's interesting. I found my, yeah, charismatic and entertaining right me too but the other side of it is bad you know there's the charismatic entertainment part but then there's the terrifying part that's right at home sometimes and uh your mom what was she up to she uh she's still around too she you know she focuses on maintaining her weight and she she was a painter for a while and other things but you know now

she's down in florida and she's with another weird old man and uh siblings yeah i got a little brother you yeah uh two girls uh two sisters younger older really i'm right in the middle they're both still around yep oh that's nice so what do they do uh one was in the newspaper business for most of her life worked at the saint petersburg times uh and and the other one uh raised uh three kids and they're all grown and yep everybody's all grown and you're just like uh uncle dave i am no i'm not uncle dave i'm just uh i don't know. You don't have a relationship with him? Legally, there's a relationship, yeah. Oh, yeah.

I mean, they're in Florida and Indiana, and I'm in New York. Yeah. So now, and your mom, everybody knows because she was on the show so much. Right. But it's sort of interesting, though. Now, was it volatile at home with the alcoholism? Now, was it volatile at home with the alcoholism? The volatility was my mother's reaction to my father's behavior.

Okay. He wasn't volatile. No. He was not a mean drunk. He was not an angry drunk. Nobody knew he was a drunk. He was a professional drunk. Yeah.

We then discovered, I remember the day my mother came to see me and she said, I don't know, I think I may have to divorce your father. And she was taciturn and soft-spoken. And so this was a bombshell. And the next question is, really? Is there a problem? And she said, well, he's an alcoholic. And then we started looking at the evidence. Sure enough, she was right. Yeah. And within a month, two guys show up at the house. Yeah.

And they're from AA. Uh-huh. And bang, he was in. That was it. Yeah. He was ready to go. He just wanted to be a part of something. Get out of the house. get out of the shop.

That's right. Have some new friends. Tell some jokes. Yeah. So that was good. And then I don't think he lived much longer than that. But it was one of those deals. He had a series of heart attacks in his life.

Oh, man. And in those days, they let him smoke in the hospital. That's right. Recovering from the heart attack. Well, the doctor said it was good for you, right? Yep. Yep. Come on.

Really? Yes. Yeah. And what they said was to get him off cigarettes now, the shock might kill him. Oh, wow. Yeah. So then he continued to smoke the rest of his life, and finally it caught up with him.

He had another heart attack? Yep. Yep. Apparently you got a little bit of the heart disease from him. It's a coronary artery disease, yeah. That's what he had. I assume so. Yeah, yeah.

And did you, but alcoholism, did you get that? Yes. You did? Yeah. And, did you get that? Yes. You did? Yeah. And did, and when did you start drinking? When I was about 12. Oh, yeah? Yeah.

And you were pretty drunk for? Stayed drunk right through high school, college, easy. Yeah. And then after college, you begin to notice, well, how come everybody isn't still drunk? And then. Where's everyone going? you begin to notice, well, how come everybody isn't still drunk? And then- Where's everyone going? I stayed, I continued to drink till I was 34. And I just, I had a conversation.

Here was the deal. Yeah. I just love this because I think every alcoholic has gone through this. It's annual checkup time. Yeah. And the doctor is- Poking around. Yeah. Jeez's annual checkup time. Yeah. And the doctor is- Poking around. Yeah.

Jeez, your liver is swollen. Do you drink quite a lot? Oh, I'll have a beer or two. Right. And so- Nothing crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

And then I went back again. He said the same thing. And I thought, you know what? If my liver is swollen- Man. And then I tried to quit. And I couldn't quit. And I couldn't quit. And I couldn't quit.

And I couldn't quit. And I couldn't quit. So one day I just said to myself, you're going to kill yourself. Yeah. And I stopped. Was that in Los Angeles? New York. Oh, it was in New York.

Yeah. Because I had a TV show at the time. And I said, drunk people don't succeed. Which show? The morning show? No, the NBC late show. Oh, you nbc late show yeah oh you still drinking so you drank all the way through the comedy and stuff yeah at the beginning that's right that's right but i i would go home from the comedy store and drink by myself oh glamorous

well is there anything more glamorous than being a drunk no well i mean it's a sometimes you can get away with it if you're surrounded by other people that are fucked up. Yeah, that's true. So in terms of like the show business experience that you got in Indiana, I mean, what compelled you to decide to pursue comedy? I mean, I know you've probably talked about this, but I mean, you were married at the time, right? Right. I mean, you were married at the time, right? Right. It was easy because you would watch The Tonight Show every night,

and two times a week or so, there would be a new comedian on. And after a while, this began to hurt my feelings. Oh, really? Yeah. I thought, wait a minute. They haven't called me. Oh, right. Even though I'm in Indiana. But you thought that way, right?

Yeah. It's so funny you say that because I remember many years ago when I was middling for some guy, somewhere in like the South, and he's like, yeah, I really want to get on Letterman, but they just don't reach out. And I'm like, I don't think it works like that. Well, I will say that we had some weaknesses in the area of comic bookings in our run. In general? Which show? I mean, you always seem to see comics on there.

Yeah, but I know there were a lot of people that wanted on that should have been on and didn't get on. And I'm not quite sure what broke down there, but, uh, but then again, it was hard to get on the tonight show with Johnny. So, um, it's, it's, it's, uh, well, just show business is unfair. It's terrible. Yeah. It's a, it's a hell of a life. Yep. Uh, so, so you'd see these comics and you were like, you know, I got to, you know, I'm better than them, basically? No, it wasn't that I was better than them. I just thought, well, I'll bet I could do that. Right. And so the idea was you go to California, get on The Tonight Show, and your life will be different.

Yeah. And that's what I did. But when you got to the store, because it seems to me that over the course of your entire career, that the guys that would come on. And I was a doorman at the store in 86, you know, like in 87. And I got, you know, all fucked up on drugs and, you know, with Kenison and left. And then it took me a few years. I'm sure you've covered this. When you say drugs, what category?

Coke and booze. You know, the classics, the 80s you remember uh but it was a bit a bit much for me it took me a few years to get sober after that but i i did work the door and i used to see the guys and how did you do that i went to uh eventually you know after fits and starts because just locked in with the program you know and i got you know i went to aa and you know i'd still go and i've talked in public about it i think it helps people and uh you know i kind of figured it out you know i heard a uh a report years ago on the bbc that uh debunked the whole prospect of alcoholics anonymous well

you know that's it but they do that every few years but the truth of the matter is the success rate has never been great there's no other solution oh that's right that's they say the the number of people that join in june yeah uh a year later is like three quarters gone right well but it's still what else is there yeah so even if those numbers don't seem great to a non-alcoholic person you know it might just throw the switch you might not stay in but you might not drink again. And maybe you do stay in and you work that system and it works for you, the spiritual system. But it's not like there's a, like, don't do that. There's this. There isn't anything else. Well, I understand. I certainly worked for my father and I understand the comfort of being with other people who are likewise impaired yeah there's

that and there's also there's a process through which you can sort of uh move move away from pathological self-centeredness that's the trick you know doing service and then there's also the amends process a lot of alcoholics carry a lot of guilt a lot of baggage made a lot of mistakes and they you know they succumb to the shame of, and it's one of the reasons that they drink again. So there is a process to which you can make appropriate amends with people and try to take responsibility for your actions. And where in this horizon do we find just self-medication hiding a bigger problem? Well, yeah, I think within the literature they say, look, you can go to a shrink. If you need, they, uh, they're, they're, I think within the literature, they say,

look, you know, you, you know, you can go to go to a shrink if you need, if you need other help, get other help. Yeah. Why is that what you feel it was your trip? Uh, I feel, yes, I feel like I was, uh, because I just felt better as a person when I was drunk. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. You feel more comfortable. You feel whole confident. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like people like you. That's right. You might even like them. Yep. You're more fun.

Yeah. And then the next day. Not good. No. No, no. You weren't so fun. Well, congratulations. Well, thanks. Yeah, I'm coming up on like 20 years.

Yeah. I guess, oh, what I was going to say was that it just seems to me that a lot of the cats that you had on throughout the entire run of all your shows were people that you met when you got to L.A. That's correct. Yeah. They seem to be your oldest friends were those bonds you made at that dark castle on Sunset. Like Mule Deer, George Miller, Witherspoon, Lewis, Jay for a while, right? Well, these were all the first people I met when I got there.

Dreesen? Tom Dreesen. Yeah. They, and, you know, I loved having them on. And sometimes maybe they weren't, I don't know. It was just fun having them on. Well, yeah, because, like, you know because there's something about the brotherhood of comedians where you go through that part of your life,

and you can really talk about anything, and you go through some weird stuff together, and it's very impactful. And that's why I was always sort of fascinated with that time that you were at the store because it was before my time, and it's sort of a mythical time. And I've had Jimmy Walker on this show, and I've had Binder on this show from that era,

and I just saw Drizzen not long ago. But it just seemed like it was a completely new world. I mean, when you came into the comedy store, I mean, was it electric? Yes, it was completely exciting and completely different from anything culturally or socially I had been a part of in Indiana. That could have been anything, though. Yeah, it's a pretty low bar.

No, I didn't mean that. Yeah, but in my group, and you refer to it as a class, and I guess I was just right before you, because I think I left in the late 70s to go to New York, and then that got canceled and came back. So we might have overlapped a bit. I was there in 87. So I was gone again by then. Yeah. I mean, I think it was you guys, and then there was the, like Seinfeld's probably the next guys after you, right? And then there was the, like Seinfeld's probably the next guys after you, right? The guys I, the first guy I met was Tom Dreesen.

And I became friends with him. Same with George Miller. Yeah. Jeff Altman, Gary Muldeer, Johnny Dark. Yeah, Johnny Dark, yeah. I used to see them. And Leno. And then right after that, Robin Williams came in.

So he was kind of like the kid that starts at school the second semester. And was Binder there? Binder was there. He was like 16 when he was there. That's crazy. Yes, it is crazy. And so when Robin came, when he showed up, everybody must have been like, holy shit. Yes.

What is this? That's right. It was, you know, in the NFL, there will be a quarterback who doesn't stand in the pocket and just throw passes and hand off. There's a quarterback who will run sideline to sideline, run to the opposite end zone, and then throw an 80-yard touchdown pass. And everybody says, wow, that's the future of being an NFL quarterback. We thought that about quarterback. Yeah. We thought that about Robin.

Right. And George and I used to watch him work, and we just both thought together and discussed it. We're screwed. I just, I'll go back to Indiana. I can't do that. But why do we think we have to? That's the weird thing about comics. It's like, well, comedy's over.

This kid's here. You have to. That's the weird thing about comics. It's like, well, comedy's over. This kid's here. Well, because he was so effective and so effortlessly effective, and the place would explode and you couldn't follow him. Yeah. And that was – Well, that's what it comes down to.

Well, that's what you want to do. That's what I want to do. Yeah. I never did that. Right. Could you get an audience to explode and blow the roof off the place? I don't know no no i never could i uh and and i i i guess i told myself well that's not the kind of comedy i wanted i don't

want to do the funny kind of comedy of course that's what you got to tell yourself you know you can find fault or find like you know like well that's not really what i'm aiming for i'm exactly that thoughtful you know it's more about the structure of the job. And then it was, I suppose everybody goes through this. We would stand in the back and watch various people. Yeah. And if it was a guy or a woman that we didn't think was too funny, we would think,

oh yeah, you'll laugh at them, but you won't laugh at me. Well then there's something wrong with you people. Yeah. Everybody. Yeah. There's something wrong with every audience.

But I think really when it comes down to that, it's just on a practical level, it just becomes like, I don't want to go on after that. I just don't. You know, that's the worst thing to have to start from scratch. It's just that vacuum of disappointment. Well, that was me nightly. Come on. And then the funniest one, and it's interesting because you show up and you see a week's worth of comics.

Yeah. And you think, okay, I kind of know who's here. Right. And then people start coming in off the road. Right. So the lineup changes altogether and you thought, oh God, no, now I've got this other funny group of people I didn't know about. And that keeps happening.

And after about six months, likely you've seen everybody. Who's working. Yeah, that's right. And Jay was always the funniest. Really? Well, without question. But it seems to me that watching him at that time, at least you could have learned something about joke writing, right?

Well, in Jay's case, it was not so much joke writing as it was his attitude was hilarious. And so whether he had a joke or not, it was funny. Right. And people loved him. And he was, whenever Jay would work, we would all gather in the back because it was, uh, and then he was, he was fun to heckle because he, he didn't mind. No, he didn't like to be heckled because he, you know, he was, he was working on stuff and we were just getting in his way. It wasn't so fun hanging out in back there. It was the best. You know, I don't, I don't want

to oversell it, but I felt so lucky because of these men and women that Elaine Boosler was part of that group and Jimmy Walker. And then if you were lucky, Freddie Prinze would show up. Oh man, I wish I had seen him live. Well, he was great and he was a kid. He was 19 or 20 and people just would go crazy for Freddie. And then he'd go, he'd leave, and then everything had to settle down, and maybe there'd be an intermission. And then, every now and then, Richard Pryor would come in. And that was, oh, my God, it's Jesus Christ has come to do a set. Yeah.

And I had to follow him one night, i mean impossible yeah but you know it's impossible so then it becomes funny right right you can take make light of it there used to be an audience richard said good night and so did the audience right and so ladies gentlemen the comedy of mr dave letterman hi but it was as people were walking out yeah it's the worst yeah but it was people were walking out yeah it's the worst yeah but it was great you know it was it was it was a fun group of people to spend your time with and i i would say to myself periodically i get to spend this time uh regularly with with the funniest people in america and they were yes and they were yeah and it's it's just so like i i i romanticize that era because, like, when I was a doorman there, you walk into that place and there's a structure and there's a system and there's a history and there's this queen, you know, in Mitzi. That's right.

Where you just walked around terrified, you know, all the time that, like, you know. Didn't want to piss her off. You didn't even want to, like, meet her eye. Right. Yeah. And you didn't want her to see you work never no never when i auditioned at that place she goes you're funny you should wear a scarf i don't even know what that means but i wore a scarf for a few weeks god bless mitzi and uh there was such enmity

toward the end of uh my time there that i regret, but I didn't have anything to do with, nor did, nor, I don't know. Between you two? Between the group of people that walked a picket line and the group of people that did not. And as you get older, you think, was there a point to that? I don't know. Was it worth the enmity? I don't know. I don't know.

There's still a pretty, like, you know, if I work the main room a few times a month, there's still a percentage deal on there from then. So there are definitely people that, like, you know, I don't know what Argus would do if he wasn't getting paid still. Well, that's interesting that there are still some people there that were there when I was there. Argus came shortly after I came. Well, were there when I when I was there Argus came shortly after I came well Argus is the only one really you know there there was well Binder showed up shortly after I got there too well he doesn't really work oh no he's a director right he's a director and and you know that most of the guys like in the 80s there were still some around and then you know the booking changed hands and stuff but like you know I used to see Altman I used to see all those cats and I you know now I I don't

know what they do you know Barry Diamond's sort of Altman. I used to see all those cats. And I, you know, now I don't know what they do. You know, Barry Diamond, sort of Jack Perdue. Like they're mad that they can't get spots there. But, you know, the whole scene changes. And it's sort of sad. It's a difficult position to be in. But theoretically, you can go there and do stuff, but you have to move on. You can't make that your life.

Although, as you point out, some have. Well, I don't know if they have a choice. After a certain point, it's a weird thing that, and I don't know if this happened to you, that you learn if you're smart, that if you're funny and you can write jokes, there's a lot of things you can apply that to in show business. But if you want to put it all in the one basket,

in the comic basket, I mean, there's only 10 guys at any given time that are going to make a good living you know it's a hell of a gamble you know and i mean i took it and you know it somehow or another things worked out because i set some mics up in my garage when i was 45 but but there are definitely guys that didn't you know we're not known for planning ahead i mean did you when you started, did your career, did you know how you wanted to handle your talent from the beginning? Well, talent, let's just strike that from the record. But I had the plan.

The plan was right in front of you. But it wasn't to be a stand-up on the road for the rest of your life. No, no, I couldn't do that. I don't have that gene. Some people do. Leno, yes. Jerry Seinfeld, yes. Tom Dreesen, yes. couldn't do that i don't have that gene some people do leno yes uh jerry seinfeld yes yeah tom dreesen yes and tom dreesen is the one uh to thank in in the strike circumstance and he is quite he's the historian i gotta get him in here i just ran into him i said i'd call him i'm gonna

call him yeah i'm i'm having dinner with him tonight will you tell him i'll tell him i'm gonna call him i got the card yeah i feel bad but him I'm going to call him. I got the card. I feel bad. Don't feel bad. But he was the guy. Well, he was sort of like, was he originally a Chicago guy? Yes. And he had some union background? Or was that Mark Lone Owl?

Somebody had a union background. I don't know. I don't know about that. The strike is, it's interesting to me that it hasn't evaporated with time. Because if you get men and women involved in it of the day, they're still pretty toxic about it. It's interesting, huh? Yeah. Well, from your point of view, because I actually texted Peter and told him I was going to talk to you.

And if he had anything interesting on his mind about his memory of you, he said, well, ask him about when Mitzi used to have him drive me and Polly to Little League in his red pickup truck. Yeah, that didn't happen. It didn't. I've also been told that I babysat for Mitzi's kids. I have no memory of that either. Now, it may be my memory and maybe it did happen, but I don't remember it. Because a lot of stuff, you know, you get to be this age. But, I mean, if that did happen, it was the least exciting part of being there.

I'm telling you. No, I know. To know that you got to go there every night was but sometimes you had to do the weird jobs where i did you know you had to go pick up a chicken salad and you're like oh sure mitzi you just you really try to stay out of her way because you don't know what you'll be doing you don't know who you're going to be driving you don't i didn't uh i don't know I think she had a house just up the hill or something. Crest Hill. I used to live in it. And then she had one over on Doheny. But nonetheless, but he did bring up the fact, and I think that it's something you're alluding to, that there was a shift in the relationship she had with a lot of comics after the strike.

Right. And she called me and she said, I heard that you're going to go out on strike with me. And I said, yes, I am. And she was very upset because she had been very nice to me, had been, you know, gave me much experience that I could not have had anywhere else. Yeah. But when it came down to it, I thought the people that want to be paid for this and feel that certain folks doing it, not certain folks, anybody doing it needs to be paid. These were all my

friends. So in support of my friends, what kind of a friend am I if I don't support them on this cause? And I did. And it didn't seem like much at the time, but people haven't outlived it. Yeah? Like who? Well, Tom. Yeah. It's still a good topic with Tom. He did his first set there in like 20 years the other day.

For the documentary. Yeah. Yeah. And he said it was difficult, but, you know. To go back. Yeah. You can't, you know, you can't take everything with you as you move through life. No, I guess that's clear.

And the stuff that you do carry, if it's weighing on your heart, you got to, you know, somehow let it go or process it or make the apology, whatever the hell you got to do. Right. Right. I think so. Yeah. And the fact that you mentioned that you're getting remuneration for a gig in the main uh sure yeah there's still a deal there you go that's fantastic there's still a door deal yeah that's a great legacy for tom and everybody else who was uh on the yeah no it's great it's the surprise checks you know what i

mean because it's still a door deal on certain certain level. There's still a cut. Tom used to say when we would be killing time waiting to go on that he said, right now in this country, there are only 200 professional comedians. 200. And I think if you would ask him now, that would probably be in the thousands. Yeah. Well, I don't know what professional means. Does that mean you make money doing it or you just say you are one? I think it's the money. The money, yeah.

But like by the time the strike happened, you were already guest hosting the Tonight Show, right? Yes, yes. And Johnny had – now this is a guy that you watched when you were a kid and obviously a mentor in real life after a certain point. But did you have those aspirations to be that guy? Yes. You did. Well, not to be that guy, but I knew that whatever I could do was limited to sitting behind a desk and making fun of people. That was it.

When you did stand-up, though, was it crowd work or did you do jokes? It turned out to be quite a lot of crowd work. Because I would try and try and try and I got a pretty tight 20 minutes in the comedy store. You take it anywhere else, no thank you. So it's crowd work.

Was it cutting or was it like Jimmy Brogan style? Were you just pleasant? It was, you know, I'm trying to save my life here, ladies and gentlemen. Help me out. Yeah. Throw me a line. And I just couldn't, I mean, the worst part of it was in Denver. It was the bicentennial.

So it's July. It's hot in Denver. Right. And the club, big club, it was like a supper club. It was me and it was Lola Falana.

So this is when comics would do like 20 before singing act. That's right. Yeah, that's right. And what better way to celebrate the 200th anniversary than an unknown comedian and Lola Falana? Yeah. And they're paying $100 to get in.

Right. I don't know. So they said, and I'm at the Holiday Inn down the interstate. Yeah. They said, now at 7.30, Bob will be here in the limo to pick you up. And I said, great. Okay. 7.30, there's Bob.

We get in the limo. We go down. Two shows on a Friday night. The first great, okay. 7.30, there's Bob. We get in the limo. We go down. Two shows on a Friday night. The first show goes okay, okay. The second show, a dead silence. And Bob takes me back to the hotel, back to the Holiday Inn. Next day and for every other day for the 10 day run no bob no bob so i i now i'm walking down the interstate every night to get to the gig and i thought oh well that's how

that works and and i i felt so bad about it yeah it's embarrassing you know it's just embarrassing because they said don't worry all I had was like 30 minutes tops. Yeah. And they said, don't worry. We turned the house. Yeah. And I said, oh, thank God. Yeah, right.

Well, they didn't. Yeah. So it's, you folks want to hear the same stuff again or hi, where are you from? A lot of that. And I called my friend George Miller and I said, George, I'm taking your act. I said, my stuff is not working. I'm sorry. I'm taking your act.

And he says, that's fine. Go ahead. Take it. Anything you need. Yeah. So I did George's act for a while. And it worked? Not as well as it worked for George.

I'm telling you, this was a crucible. This was. That was the deciding week. You're like, I'm not cut out for this shit. Well, yeah. And so many things were wrong. And you start saying, hi, where are you from? Yeah.

And we're from Denver. Oh, hi. Nice to see you. What do you do? I sell insurance. Oh, good. Good. Glad.

How are you? Good. Where are you from? I sell insurance. Oh, good. Good. Glad. How are you? Good. Where are you from? I'm from Denver. Oh! So you go around the table and the last guy, I said, hi, where are you from? And he says, I'm from Denver. We're all from Denver. You're in Denver. I thought, okay. Good night, everybody. I'm walking back to the

Holiday Inn. And then a guy, a comic, you know, calls up. Here's that I'm bombing. Yeah. So he calls the owner of the club. Right. And he says, I understand Letterman's bombing.

And they said, yeah, it's not going great. And he said, I can be there tomorrow. And I just thought, oh, my God. I couldn't just get any worse. Who was that? I'm not going to say. Oh, God damn it. Did he come? No. No, I hung on. I was able to hang on with George. And the other great thing,

God bless the band. They were to play Lola Falana on and she had dancers. And so they, at 40 minutes, good night everybody, drive safely. So the band comes down at about 35 minutes. By Tuesday, they'd show up at the 15 minute mark. And I just, I said, oh, thank you. God bless you guys. da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- down. And all this time you're drinking and you're married. Yeah. I go back to the holiday inn and get really, really drunk and talk to my wife. And then Jay Leno decides, Jay hears that I'm bombing and Jay loves this. So he decides, he calls my wife and says, you know what, I got to pick Dave up from the airport when he comes home. So I go to the airport and there's Jay Leno. And he's, I understand he had some trouble, Mr. Letterman.

And so I thought, I can't even get home without the ignominy of having bombed in Denver. No, word is out. But everybody does it. Sure. Everybody lives through it. There's guys like Jerry. Now, we're talking the other end of the spectrum. Yeah.

And he said he was working someplace New Year's Eve. I won't even do that anymore. The worst. I don't know why people do it. It must be a lot of money. And he said, I just do the material. He said, I don't look left. I don't know why people do it must be a lot of money and and he said uh i just do the material he said i don't look left i don't look right i just relax and i leave it all to the material that's pretty smart i know if you can do that but i i'm looking for something my needs are

deeper well you and i uh came in on the same bus but uh but he smart. He doesn't care. He says, here's the material, and I rely on it. I trust it, and it works, and this is what you're going to get. Yeah, I mean, I get that approach, but because of that, I have no idea who that man is. Like with you, I mean, I know who you are. I've been watching you my whole life. Right when you say anything, I'm like, I know who that guy is. With Jerry, I'm like, well who that guy is with jerry i'm

like well that's a good story but i don't know see i i look at uh jerry uh and and a few other people like steve martin yeah and uh there's just a handful of names uh and and and women who are very successful in whatever show business, comedy or acting or singing. And Jerry, to me, represents the career I should have had. And you think, oh, yeah, like Steve Martin, like, oh, yeah. And if you read Born Standing Up, you realize that Steve actually put some thought into his career. I didn't put any thought into it. Did you put any thought into his career. I didn't put any thought into it. Did you put any thought into your career? I just wanted to be a comic. Yeah.

Yeah, that's right. That was it. I mean, you know, and then like, you know, you get a certain, a few years down the road at that, you're like, why isn't it happening? And then you get angry and you go through that. Well, I didn't even want to be a comic so much as I just wanted to be able to sit behind a desk and say, hey, nice earrings. That's all I could do. Then you succeeded amazingly well. Yeah. So how does it all change, you know, with Johnny? I mean, you know, how does that, what happens to the marriage?

What happens to, you know, I mean, how does it, how do you take off? I mean, when you start guest hosting and whatnot. I mean, how do you take off when you start guest hosting and whatnot? Well, that was huge because it was huge to be on The Tonight Show. The marriage was altogether independent from that and my irresponsible behavior. But if you're on The Tonight Show, if you're hosting The Tonight Show, suddenly people are really, really nice to you. Very nice to you. And I've noticed now also, since I've stopped being on television, they've gotten even nicer. And I think that's the old saying, give them what they want. Just stop being on television and we'll be really nice to you.

Thanks for relieving us of what you put us through. But I don't know what the machine is now. I don't know. Like, I remember I went back to the comedy store on the Sam Kinison days on a Monday night. That was his night. And I just, I got frightened. Yeah, it was scary, man. I thought, here's Sam.

Yeah. And, oh, like a guy I used to love, Mitchell Walters. Mitchell, yeah. Would hang out. Is Mitchell still around? What's your area code? Yeah. I've told people that this was his act and nobody believes me.

And I said, no. The guy would get up there. Hey, what's your hometown? And then he would call out the area code. And I said, no, that didn't happen. It happened. It's a little tricky now with cell phones because they're not. But is he okay?

I don't know if he's okay. I didn't know him that well. He was sort of, you know, I heard a good story about him, though. He emailed me at some point because i'd mentioned him on the show he says i'm in florida or somewhere oh yeah he's alive i've stolen uh uh what a hip guy that was mitchell's uh response to anything that was his tag yeah did you hear about governor brown what a hip guy and i've i've stolen that and made it my own he's a memorable character mitchell well the place was full of stolen that and made it my own he's a memorable character Mitchell

well the place was full of memorable characters and it was just great so once you started rolling with the talk show thing now was when you did the morning show was that hell or was that good for you? It was hell because you know what it is

Mark it's I thought, I was under the impression that America was just waiting for the kind of show I was going to give them. Yeah. Because you look at what's on and you think, well, this can't be good enough.

Yeah. Wait till I get up there. Yeah. I'll show them what a program really is. Well, it didn't work that way. Not in the morning. Not in the morning it didn't work that way. Not in the morning. Not in the morning. Didn't work that way.

No. And so we were yanked. And that was a very difficult year. Yeah. Very difficult year. Did you think you were over? Yeah. Yeah.

You think you go to the back of the line. Yeah. And likely you do. Uh-huh. And then had another shot at it. And it slowly, slowly got to be okay. With the first show that's correct and and that was it was did johnny have a hand in that yes he had a piece of

the show i think he got 10 of it i don't know what the yeah that was with late night yeah yeah because we followed him and uh we were beholden to him yeah in many ways and were you in contact with him was he yeah was he saying like i like that bit no we never talked about the show i would uh i would go to dinner with him yeah and uh i i was always frightened that i would just get comfortable and then he'd decide he didn't like me so So I never could. Around guys like that where you just can't relax because, you know, oh, Jesus, Johnny Carson, what if I do something stupid? And then it's just going to be all over. You know, it's like, what if I wreck his car pulling into the driveway? That's it.

Okay, Letterman's not coming back. That's so horrible because we can't be comfortable. No, no. You know what I mean? It's like you're always afraid you're going to say the one thing and that's going to be it. Yeah, I may have said it already here today. I don't think so.

I think those days are gone. What are they going to do to you now? Hmm. Well, it's not what are they going to do to you. It's I will spend till Labor Day eating my own guts. Just thinking about it? Just like, oh, why did I?

What's the matter? Well, I mean, how do you deal with that? Because I remember one time my own guts just thinking about it just like oh why did i what's the matter why well i mean how the hell did you how do you how they deal with that because i remember one time when the one time i did the show and like your show i don't remember which time it was but i was always it was always a day of just sort of like oh god just trying to act normal and you know but you know putting a suit on and i remember one time i don't i we i got to the building and somehow or another like you know i think i can't remember it was an elevator opening or you were on the stairs but you were in the middle of something frantic like did you run the stairs did you yeah yeah and it

was so just it was disconcerting to me i'm like did we just interrupt something that no i supposed to see dave like that i don't think I was supposed to see that. It's very funny because at some point, for some reason, it became in cement that you couldn't be in the hallway when Dave was in the hallway. Right. And if you were, holy God, and look out. Right. Well, it was never that, but I like to, from my office, once I got off the elevator, I like to run as fast as I could through the labyrinthian hallways, up the stairs and into

my dressing room just for exercise. Yeah, that's right. And I kept saying, one of these days, I'm going to run into an intern or a page or somebody and knock them unconscious. So maybe we should ask. So this became whatever you do, you're not allowed in the hallway if Letterman's in there. And by the way, don't look at him. Exactly. I think that must have been it. And I was like, am I going to, am I still on? That on? I remember one time I was getting ready to do the show, and I was coming downstairs, and an audio guy who liked cars, and he and I both would talk about cars. So I'm now four minutes away from doing the show.

I come down the stairs, and the guy says, Dave. And I said, yeah. And he says, I got a chance to buy a 68 buick can i borrow four thousand dollars ladies and gentlemen what's what's happening here but you know those are the things that later are delightful did you give them the money yeah yeah i did but you know understood where he was you pick a maybe a different call up schedule and i don't know right before you go on yeah it was it was it was good those kind of things uh are fun to remember i remember watching the show the first show the late night show when i was in college and i

and i used to lay on this futon with this color tv set i had and i just couldn't get over so like there was one moment and i don't even know if it's real or you would remember it i don't remember who the hell the guy was but he'd written a book he was involved with the mob and you know the the intro the intro was something like this man was involved in the murders of 18 people And then the guy comes right out and starts talking about Jesus. And you're like, we don't want to hear about that. We want to hear about the people you killed. Yeah, I do remember.

I remember two things that every now and then you get a guy like that who's written the book. And I read one where a guy, there's a motorcycle gang in Southern California, the name of which escapes me, which is probably a good thing. And he infiltrated the motorcycle group. But he was really working for the FBI. Yeah. And every chapter was, you'll never know how close I was to getting my bike blown up. Chapter two, you'll never know how close I came to having my eyes poked out with a hot iron.

Chapter three, you'll never know how close I came to having my eyes poked out with a hot iron. Chapter three. You'll never know how close I came to having my house blown up. But I thought, well, nothing happened. And then he's on every talk show in America. Yeah. He's got a real racket going with him. You never know how close I was. Yeah.

That's his shtick. So now when you look back on stuff, because I can't keep you here all day, you're going to dinner with Dreesen tonight? Going to dinner with Dreesen. going to dinner with John Witherspoon, Tim Thomerson, and myself, yeah. Yeah, it was funny. I saw a montage of Tim doing the same horse bit. There was a guy you couldn't follow either.

Yeah, I bet. Was he still working? No, no, no. He was sort of long gone. So you started in California, or did you start in New York? No, I came out here after college in Boston. I was here for about a year and I got screwed up on drugs and I went home to Albuquerque and I cleaned up

and I went back to Boston and started over and I started working like in the late 80s. And then I came back here in 2001 and finally got my name on the fucking wall. Took a long time. It's just so important. It was so important. I just, I want to reiterate this.

Yeah. Knowing a little bit about your story and knowing that it's completely different from other stories, it diverges at a certain point. The coming out here, having trouble, going home, coming back. point uh the coming out here having trouble going home coming back but the fact that you have uh invented the podcast essentially and you know i used the medium it was laying there and i used it was laying there but nobody else had the wherewithal or the brains or the whatever it is that took to launch this yeah uh is quite commendable well Well, thank you. It was just a matter of like, well, I needed help. And like I had been in the show business long enough to where I knew enough people and I

was bitter and I was cynical and I'd just gone through a divorce and I was going broke and I couldn't draw people on the road. So I started this thing in my garage and I called the people I knew to come over and I invited celebrity guests to talk about my problems, and it developed a real style. Yeah, but the President of the United States is only coming here because of the success of your podcast. And I'll tell you, in all honesty, even having been here with you, I still don't know what a podcast is.

It's on your phone. No, it's not. It's not on my phone. It's okay. You don't have to. Me and your dad. Well, I mean, you're doing long form now.

I mean, what do you feel about it? I love it. You do? I do love it. Yeah, because it's not every day. I don't have to

run through a hallway and knock down ushers. Oh, we scared Dave. Yeah. I can imagine from anyone else's perspective, it must be, oh, God, some sort of explosive device has gone off and he's running for his life. No, it was more like, you know, we just walked in on you in the bathroom. I was like, you know, I don't think anyone was supposed to see that.

Oh, God. But how is the adjustment for you into regular life i mean you must have here's a couple things before i i you know i start rushing is that like i don't have children and i you know for years i just didn't think i thought i was too selfish too anxious too nervous too angry to do i am the president of that club yeah and and now you know you have one right and it's the greatest thing in the world. Greatest thing in the world. But that's exactly the conversation I used to have. I can't. I'm focused on this.

I can't. It will be too big a distraction. And I put it off for like 15 years with my wife. And that turned out to be a huge mistake. But I was exactly the way you were. I'm worrying about the children I don't have. Yes. Hard not to. Yeah.

I mean, like when I think about it, I get anxious. Like, how do you, you're going to, what's it? I had great anxiety during the pregnancy. And then, uh, as I've said a billion times, like I'm the only one who's ever had a child. Yeah. He's born. Yeah. The switch is flipped and it is a switch. It's a, it's unconditional love. Yeah. And that's great. Yeah. And he's doing all right.

But here's the mistake that I made, and I'm not suggesting this for anyone else. Yeah. I should have done this 15 years ago. Wow. Because now I'm 100. Yeah. And he's got a suit picked out for the reading of the will. And there you go.

I don't know if that's the way to look at it. I'm sure he loves you. Believe me, it's the way to look at it. But how are you using your time? I know that you've said publicly almost over and over again how you do not miss the job at all. Oh, I did in the beginning. But now I actually think not being consumed by show business has made me a better person. Oh, how could it not?

Well, no, I don't want to blame show business. It's myself. I think I've tried to be a better person. Just blame show business. Okay, why not? Yeah, you've tried to be a better person. I mean, I got everything in my life from show business, so why not turn on it? Right.

Well, I mean, but it's demanding, and it's draining, and it's like cancer. And it's misguided. Yeah. You know, it's misguided. It's a tiny focus, and everybody says, oh, but joy. I'm not sure about that. Right. Well, no, I don't know what joy is.

I'm working on it. You know? I mean, I feel it, but I push it away. about that right well no i don't i don't know what joy is i'm working on it you know i mean i i i feel it but i push it away but but it's an awkward feeling to me what you're doing here is a service to people because it's entertaining and informational yeah and people like they they get to know people it's it's good angelica houston i know i know more about angelica houston i i was never interested in her. But she's a person.

Yeah, yeah. It was good. It was good. But let me ask you before I go nuts. So the child, having the kid is good, and you're enjoying life. And also, it seems to me that you've evolved publicly very well. Like the way you handled the blackmail thing was amazing. The way you handle your past sort of treatment of women is amazing.

Like you're an evolving person. I think people, there's very few people that speak about it the way you do. Well, you go through life one step at a time and two things can happen. You either get smarter from these lessons or you don't. And if you don't, you're a fool and nobody wants to be a fool yeah and in the and you say that your the depression is better yeah uh yeah yeah it is better it uh yeah thanks to medication sure it's fine do you meditate still yes i do matter i meditated today yeah yeah but you have a certain system because people tell me i should do it and i it. And I feel like we have a lot in common in the anxiety, pushing things away.

Why is happiness important department? Mm-hmm. So what made you transition to that? Was it the heart thing? No. It was because it was part of my program to become a better person. And I thought perhaps meditating would help me become a better person. And I'll tell you what meditating does. And to be honest, uh, uh, nobody was more skeptical about it than myself, but it does work. I've, I've actually had blood pressure just drop

right down after meditating, but it, it also refreshes you in a way that for a while just gave me more energy to be angry. So I thought, well, no, wait a minute here. This is something's not quite right. Every time I exercise, I'm furious. Yeah. But your dad's 82 or something. Yeah. He keeps plugging.

Yeah. You know, but the anger is better. Yeah. Yeah. Less to be angry about. I mean, you know, a network television show is you pretend it's important. Yeah. And Leno was always, yeah, it's too bad nobody watching the show.

And so you'd have to, oh, Jay. Okay. Thanks. Thanks, Jay. So it's a lot of artificial pressure. You know, I talked to him. Oh, he was on the show. Yeah, and he knew I was in the other camp. So it was dicey a little bit for me.

But, you know, because I was always a Letterman-Conan guy. You know what I mean? And he knew I had sides in the thing, but he decided to come on. And I tried to get in there. Well, I always said that he's two things. I think he's the funniest person I was ever around. And I think maybe what we see is a manifestation of deep insecurity. But, I mean, as a stand-up, was there anybody?

Did you see him at the Comedy Store? No, I used to see him at the Improv. I know he was great. Oh, yeah, he was great there, too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Cling Peach Advisory Board. What kind of job is that? Yeah, you folks seen Star Wars? But you seem to have a lot of fond memories of the guy.

Oh, yeah. Because, you know, like everything everything else so what and uh nothing happened on which you could indict so you know and and he was he's good are you but do you ever foresee a future where you guys no not really i mean we were friendly yeah um but i, you know, I liked him. I think he I think, you know, there was Robert Klein, who is still great. And then there was Jay, who I think took was influenced by Robert Klein. I think Jay would admit that. And for for my group. Yeah. He was our Robert Klein. It's so funny because Robert Klein, and not unlike you or myself, but unlike Jay and other people, like Robert Klein is like 80. And he's still, you know, before he goes on, fundamentally insecure. Sure. Like, I mean, when I did a gig with him, he's like, oh, Christ. I'm like, really?

Yeah. Yeah. How about that? How about that? You mean this never goes away? Yeah. It never goes away. I believe that's true.

So now, and also, I guess I want to talk about real quick is the way you handled the Bill Hicks thing. I thought that was pretty noble as well. Well, no. That was a mistake I made. Bill Hicks had been on our old show quite a lot. He was a regular on the show. But you saw in him like he was special. Yes. Yeah. Yes. our old show quite a lot he was a regular on the show but you you saw in him like he was special yes yeah yes and uh so then we moved to uh 11 30 and bill comes on and uh he he does a set that uh we talked a lot about and i think it included i don't know i i remember what it was we don't

need some christian joke or we don't need to revisit it. So we did a sloppy job of taking him out of the show. We gave Bill Sheft a big break. Yeah. I love Bill. And Bill was, you know, played along. But it was a mistake. It was discourteous. It was impolite.

It was inconsiderate on my part. Yeah. And then later, it turns out the man has, I think, liver cancer. Pancreatic. Pancreatic cancer. So, and that was haunting. Yeah, because he died and you never really made amends or made it right or had him back on or whatever. It should not have happened in the first place.

I have no great defense. I have excuses, but I'm not even going to. But you had his mom on and you had a nice apology. Yes, we had his mother on and we played the set that had been deleted. Yeah. And I looked at it and I thought I had really been a fool because at that time it just seemed like, really? Really, Dave? You did this to this kid?

Yeah. And it's one of the many mistakes I made. Well, do you have any, do you find yourself, in closing here, do you find yourself making amends? By the way, I'll tell you when we're closing. Oh, that's fine. Stay here as long as you want. We can go back. I skipped a bunch of stuff. I just like saying that. Robin told me, I did one of the last, or a fairly beautiful interview with him.

I went to his house and it was just the two of us. Did you know at the time that he was ill? Well, no, not like that. I mean, like, you know, he did do some sad riffing at the end about, you know, he had just relapsed with booze and he'd gotten through the heart surgery and stuff, but I had no idea of the, the deteriorative or deteriorating,

uh, the mentally deteriorating disease, but he was very candid, you know, but I think he told me that, uh, you know, he did that.

He was talking about being on your show after he had the open heart surgery after you had, and you said to him, you said, did you find yourself crying on that? Said nothing or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. that yeah yeah and he said you guys connected around that yeah that experience yeah yeah that's it's it's a great uh i i love the experience not not for robin for myself i loved it i loved the open heart surgery really, I loved it. It was great because, as I've said, it was all about me.

Yeah. And everybody would, and I'd just sit him down and I'd take him right through it. I couldn't stop talking about it. Yeah. It was delightful. But afterwards, I remember watching the show. It was sort of like you couldn't hide the vulnerability. It was out.

It was still putting that back in the bottle. Yeah, yeah. It was out. It was still putting that back in the bottle. Yeah, yeah. But from that experience, I made a handful of really good friends that are still really good friends today. So it was- At the hospital? Yeah.

Oh, yeah? Yeah, the hospital staff. And yeah, it was good. It saved my life. It's been 19 years. Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you very much.

Wait a minute. I'm getting- Oh, oh no not now not here not here hold on let me turn the mics up here we go it's not funny to pretend you're having a heart attack dave just stay on the mic this is going to be clickbait heaven uh but okay the last question do you have uh things do you have amends that you want to make? Do you have regrets that you still want to hammer out? You do? Yeah. I mean, you haven't lived a life if you get to be my age and don't have regrets.

And I've tried. Yeah. And some have worked. Some have not worked. Yeah. And the ones that have not worked frustrate me because, well, you want things to go your way. And it's not a fun feeling when you have inadvertently hurt someone's feelings and have reached out to try and correct the problem. And you just, it only deepens your feeling of being inconsiderate and even accidentally being a jerk. Nobody wants that.

But isn't it more like, I guess that's one of the things you learn about that process. It's really more about you taking responsibility for what your actions was. You can't really control how they're going to receive it. Well, that's the mature way of looking at it. You're exactly right. And perhaps you get you're exactly you're exactly right and and and perhaps you get credit for trying to make it right it doesn't hurt yeah yeah but what you want is it to be right like in the case of bill hicks yeah didn't make it right yeah did the best i could and uh i still feel bad about it but you're not beating the shit out of yourself every day oh you can't you know you can't uh because nobody learns anything from that. You make mistakes,

you try to correct them and you keep going. Well, I certainly was nervous about this, but by the time you got here, I wasn't. Good. I was excited about this because it's my first, I think it's my first podcast. Yeah. How do you feel about it? I'd like to do one a day. Yeah? You know, just hang out in L.A. for a week. Everybody's got one. It's not unlike comedy now. Everyone's got a podcast. Argus Hamilton has a podcast.

I did it. It's not a podcast. He's actually doing- It's not a podcast. It's something else. He's doing a live streaming television show in the basement of the comedy store. Well, how do you do that? Yeah.

Well, you set up a camera, and you a YouTube or one of the streaming services and he goes live once a week. I think it's Tuesday night. This is new. It might. Oh, it was last night. You missed it. I wouldn't.

How does one get that? On the computer. You have a computer? Yes. Yes, I do. Yeah, I did it. I did it. Argus is a character.

I got to interview him. There's something going on in there. Yeah. I've known him. Well is a character. I got to interview him. There's something going on in there. Yeah. I've known him. Well, I guess maybe I'll see him tomorrow. You know, honestly, dude, he still kills. Like, he writes those jokes, man. He writes the jokes, and they're current, and he does well.

Does he travel? I don't know what he does. No one knows what he does. He comes to the comedy store. He does a set, and then he gets out. Then he leaves. But he's very sober. Happy?

Oh, no, he had some demons. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, no, he seems happy. He seems chipper, you know, and he loves the comedy store, and he's really the only one of that generation that has been grandfathered in, you know, by the institution to never stop working for as long as he wants to work. That's good.

Yeah. And what kind of boys and girls are on stage? There's a lot of great acts there now. There's a lot of people that there's a good crew and the place has gotten very hot again. I think it's really the last authentic comedy club still sort of owned and operated by the original family kind of deal

and the place looks the same but they fixed the bathrooms in the back hall. They fixed the floors. There's, you know, the place is like

they got security now. You know, it's not, they don't have that. That's right. They never used to have security. No, it's just comics working the door.

God forbid something happened. You get guys going like, this is not part of what I do. But no, it's a real operation. A lot of the great new comics are there. It's the best location for a club anywhere in the world. Yeah, and also the funny thing is, and I believe that you probably feel it too, is for whatever reason, when I got there in the late 80s, I felt immediately, you know, deeply and mystically attached to the place. I had the same thing.

I felt like geographically I have accomplished what needed to be accomplished. Uh-huh. And what happened with Mitzi ultimately? You know, how did that end up? I mean, you seemed to show up and do things. I think afterwards we got to be friends again. And I know you're pressed for... I'm not pressed for time.

I thought you were. Really? Oh, good. Well, no. Yeah, go ahead. I'm not pressed for time. So we were doing the show in Las Vegas. Yeah.

At Herplace? At the Dunes? No, we had the TV show at... Oh, your show. The MGM. The CBS show? The MGM Grant. No, the NBC show TV show at- Oh, your show. The MGM. The CBS show? The MGM Grant. No, the NBC show.

I don't know. Maybe it was a CBS show. That's right. They were all such good shows. They were. They were great. We did thousands of them. So we're walking through the casino, and I see Mitzi coming the other way.

And I said, hey, Mitzi. Yeah. David, how are you? He's greatzi, David, how are you? Great, Mitzi, how are you? Fine. I said, wow, that's some coat. She's wearing like a thing that comes down to her waist and it's furry. And I said, that's a beautiful coat.

And she says, it's monkey. I said, okay, I got a cab waiting, Mitzi, and good luck. It's monkey. Yeah, and I just thought, well, that's breaking a law, I got a, geez, I got a cab waiting, Mitzi, and good luck. It's a monkey. Yeah, and I just thought, well, that's breaking a law, isn't it, somehow? Oh, my God. But God bless her. I mean, come on in, and you can be on TV. Yeah, if you try.

Get five minutes, you're going on TV. But what about that whole improv war, and, like, you can't work there, you can only work on all that stuff. Who cares. The improv was great. I always had trouble at the improv but you know there was Andy Kaufman so it was worth going down there. I can't imagine what it

was like to see him. It was fantastic. Yeah. And then he would come on the show and that was a dream also. What to have him on your show? Oh yeah. Because he never knew what was going to happen. no he was so cool he would he would tell you exactly what was going to happen oh really yes he was a a gentleman in that respect so you know so you didn't you you got to play along yeah uh he he would say here's what's going to happen yeah and then jerry lawler will come out and we're going to get into an argument and then he's going to hit me and then I'll go down and that'll be the segment. And I said, okay. And then it happens. And even though I knew

roughly what was going to happen, it was still, oh my God, he wasn't kidding. And the audience, of course, is like, geez, get your purse. We got to get out of here. And the thing that i i loved about him from the beginning when he would come on our show as he would always say at the end of the segment send me the hate mail who else did you like look forward to having well all my buddies uh because you knew they were going to deliver i used to love having jay on uh. We had Elaine Boosler on all the time. She was a good friend of ours in those days. George Miller. Yeah.

God bless him. I loved having George on. I just still love him. Yeah. And then Altman, you know, Jeff, and then Tom. Richard? Oh, Richard Lewis was great for us, too. You know, all of these guys did really well for us.

That was my dream, you know, is that when I started doing Conan, I'm like, I want to be a panel guy. Yeah. Like Richard was on Dave's show. Yeah. And he let me like three or four times a year. Good. Yeah. It was great. The great thing about panels, like you didn't have, the jokes didn't have to be whole. It's like, you know, you could kind of wing it and, and see what happened a little bit. Yep. It was two different skills really. Uh skills, really. And the guys that, I didn't care for the guys who would just do their stand-up at panel. I just thought,

wait a minute, we're not having a conversation here. Yeah, yeah, have a little story. You're funny and that's great, but you could do that over there. If you're coming over here, talk to me. Unless you're Rodney Dangerfield. I'm tired of talking, Mark.

Okay, now it's going to turn into Norm's show. So you're the one who saw that. I had to watch it. I love Norm. God, geez. I don't know what happened to that show. I just, I remember saying to Ted Sarandos after all of

Norm's shows had been produced, I said, boy, I think you guys really got something here. Apparently not. But I loved it. Yeah, Norm's a character.

All right, thanks for talking to me, David. It was a real honor. Hey, Mark, congratulations on everything. Nice talking with you. That was a thrilling hour or so for me. Thank you for hanging out, Dave. Thank you for listening to that.

I was a little overwhelmed, but it got loose. It got loose. You know, man. Dave Letterman was at my house, and we hung out and talked for a while. I feel all right about it. I feel all right. and talk for a while. I feel alright about it.

I feel alright. I, uh, you know, I feel like I talked to a fellow comic, a fellow human, a guy trying to be a better guy, a thoughtful guy.

I don't know, man. What a fucking day, right? I'll play a little guitar. Thank you. Boomer lives! Boomer lives! We'll see you next time. Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age.

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