WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1029 - Steve Sweeney

Episode Date: June 20, 2019

When Steve Sweeney was growing up in Boston, the last thing he expected to become was an entertainer. He rubbed elbows with career criminals in Charlestown but somehow wound up doing summertime productions of Shakespeare plays and seeing actors like Lawrence Olivier and Christopher Plummer. Acting then led to exposure to comedy, which later led to cocaine-induced psychosis, and eventually to working in jails and with at-risk youth. Steve talks with Marc about the journey to build his act and why he enjoys producing his own projects now, including his new movie Sweeney Killing Sweeney. This episode is sponsored by Turo, Squarespace, and Starbucks Tripleshot Energy. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance, mind your business.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store

and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fucksters? What's happening?

I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. I'm out of town. It's early in the morning for me. And I'm in a place where the sound bounces around, which you probably can't appreciate as much as I can. Appreciate not being the word that I really want to use. I mean, I'm not appreciating it. I guess that is the word. I'm acknowledging it. How's your morning going? I thought I was ready to do this, but I don't have much time. I have a small window of time here today on the show. Steve Sweeney, the veteran comic, one of the Mount Rushmore figures of Boston comedy. I knew him when I was starting out. He's here today. He's got a movie out. It's called Sweeney Killing Sweeney. It's available on iTunes and Amazon. When I was

starting out in Boston, this guy was the king. He was one of the kings. There was like three or four kings and Steve was one of them. So it was kind of interesting. I don't think I've really talked to him probably ever, but I talked, maybe I talked to him a few times back when I was a kid just a sprouting comic back at Nick's Comedy Stop in Boston but I certainly haven't talked to him as an adult and it was very interesting for me it's like a trip back to a younger me. So let me explain what's going on here. Last time I talked to you, I was in St. Louis. And then on Sunday morning, I packed up my bags at five in the morning and went to the St. Louis airport and I flew to Toronto, Canada, Toronto, Ontario. And now I got here on Sunday afternoon, checked into a hotel, and went to a fitting for

a movie. I got off the plane Sunday. I tried on a bunch of clothes from the 1970s, selected a few, and then I went and tried on a wig, and then that night I went and relaxed and I looked at my work for the next day. I'm shooting this David Bowie film with Johnny Flynn. And it's interesting about this movie has been out in the press a bit and people's immediate response was like, no, no, don't ruin Bowie. You can't, you know. Look, I'm a pretty big fucking David Bowie fan. And I read this script and I found it to be quite interesting. It's a very intimate movie.

It's a very specific movie about a very specific time in Bowie's life. It's not some arcing biopic with a big scope. It really kind of takes place over like a three-week period of time on Bowie's trip to America in 1971. I play a music label Mercury publicist named Ron Oberman, who I don't really know anything about. He's still around, but apparently he's not really functioning that well, so I couldn't do that much research.

But I see the lines, and I get get it and i'm just doing the work man now i'm in it where it's the third day of shooting we're shooting 12 hour days up here but it's really the difference in shooting things and i i know this is kind of a new world for me but when you're not when you're shooting a shooting can take a long time but these all these scenes are very they're intimate and there's only a couple of people involved so far. The crew is pretty small. There only seems to be one camera. The director shoots very quickly.

The cinematographer, the DP, he's 80 years old, and his name's Nick Noland. And apparently he's been shooting stuff forever, and he actually shot John and Yoko in bed in a short documentary. And he shot some Mark Boland footage back in the early 70s. And I think my director, Gabriel Range, works with this guy a lot or has worked with him before. But the idea that this guy shot these guys at that time is pretty trippy man and the fact that the dude is still working i mean schlepping cameras around getting on the crane

getting into the the little uh the camera seat at 80 and just like you know killing it which is a word i don't use that much it's pretty astoundingounding. I wish I had time to talk to him, but this is going to be a cram, man. So the response to the Eve Ensler episode has been kind of overwhelming. And I'm getting a lot of feedback about the impact that episode had on people's lives, both men and women. And it's heavy, man, and I'm happy that that happened. Thank you for the feedback, and I was happy to provide that service, really, which was to have that conversation with the events and to share it with you guys. All right, I've got three pages of dialogue to do today.

It's an outburst I get mad At Johnny Flynn's David Bowie And have a little scene I make a scene For the scene And you know I mean you folks know me That's a stretch

So there's a lot of things going on That I don't have in front of me You can go to WTFpod.com Slash tour To check out all the tour dates There's been a couple added Since I've maybe last talked to you going on that I don't have in front of me, you can go to WTF pod.com slash tour, uh, to check out all the tour dates. There's been a couple of added since I've maybe last talked to you, the Montreal just for last festival. I'll also be up here in the Toronto just for last festival. Glow is coming back on the air sort of trust, which is S W O RD, Sword of Trust. The film I made with Lynn Shelton is opening,

is premiering in theaters in July. And then as July kind of moves on, it's going to spread to a few theaters, about 24, 25 theaters. I believe that, I don't know if the dates for that are up on the website, but you can go to swordoftrust.com, I think, to get all the information on that. Oh my God. I think I need a break. You

guys. I, you know, I just, I think I'm going to need a break. Is that okay? If I take a break with somebody, please give me a vacation. Mark, I'm talking to you, Mark, give yourself a vacation. Will you, can you, so Steve Sweeney, how do I about steve sweeney i i oftentimes do not know how young mark did what he did i have i have no concept uh i was in los angeles in the uh late 80s got all fucked up on drugs and went back to Boston to restart my comedy career that I'd started in Los Angeles at the comedy store and you know that was 1988 and I and some of you know this information but I came in second in a big comedy contest there and from you know that like august 1988 i've been a working comedian since then long time but there was a local comedy scene it was really a regional comedy scene that

had these this group of comics that just dominated it for for years and you know i was entering that world because i was living in boston and it was a one-nighter market. And that's how you sort of, that's how I made my bones. Was running around to bars, discos, pubs, bowling alleys, hotel conference rooms of all different sorts. All over the New England area doing these gigs. And one of the big dudes at that time there were a few of them was Steve Sweeney Steve Sweeney was like Boston's own comedic superhero man you just had this crew of people that a lot of people don't know because

they they were they were New England comics i mean they they spread out sometimes they took trips and they went to new york and they went to la but uh you know and they did the evening at the improv and this and that but in terms of working comics a lot of people didn't know and there were dozens of them and steve steve sweeney was uh was one of the big guys he was the he was if you were to go to new england and was, if you were to go to New England and mention, if you were to say to anybody in the sort of Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Rhode Island region,

you know a comic from Boston named Steve Sweeney, they would be like, of course, of course. Of course I know Sweeney. He did these big characters, big, and he just, he owned them and he leaned into them and he just had a huge presence on stage. And I remember, I always, it wasn't a matter of intimidating. It was just that he was sort of mythic. I mean, you'd see him, you know, sometimes he'd do, you know, 10, 15 minutes

when he's supposed to do know sometimes he'd do you know 10-15 minutes when he's supposed to do 45 or he'd do 20 and then sometimes he'd do a you know an hour but you just he was sort of always delivered the goods but at the time back in the day and this was I think before he sobered up you just I don't know he was intimidating he was a little crazy you know he was kind of wild so my memories of him are are kind of like awe of some kind and sort of like you know what's that guy about you know and and just knowing that he was you know he was the guy he's the king of fucking Boston comedy wise on that you know in that world you know I in that world, you know, I, I, of course, like entered the world of catch a rising star where it was me and Dave cross and Janine Garofalo and Laura

Keitlinger and Louie and, uh, Chuck Sklar and John Groff, Lauren Dombrowski, whatever there was, we were then a generation beneath them. And we were in this little basement club in Cambridge yet there was this regional scene you know this regional comedy community and I worked within it you know I was there doing one-nighters with a lot of these guys but it was intimidating in a weird way for me to talk to Steve Sweeney because like I said he held this place where I was like if this guy was the biggest guy and there was a couple of things that he did that I thought were just sort of astounding. And I really haven't seen or talked to him much, maybe in passing, but not really, in, you know, what, almost 30 years. But he came by, and I was excited for the opportunity.

And he's created, made a new movie called Sweeney Killing Sweeney. It's available on iTunes and Amazon and he'll be at the Improv Asylum in Boston this Sunday, June 23rd doing his one-man show, Townie. And this is me talking to Steve Sweeney back in the

house. Back in the house in California. Steve Sweeney. It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats, but iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice. Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no, but chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+.

We live and we die we control nothing beyond that an epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by james clavelle to show your true heart just to risk your life will i die here you'll never leave japan alive fx's shogun a new original series streaming february 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Me. So, it's good to see you. It's really good to see you, Mark.

I watch you and I watch Joe and I watch other people. It's such an interesting thing to come back here to Los Angeles. Yeah. Because I lived here for eight years. Yeah. And I remember having all of these. And then I came back out for a few auditions and stuff. Yeah.

And when I didn't get them, I got flooded with those old feelings of like, why am I here? And just this terrible, terrible third world kind of 405 freeway kind of jumping out of my skin. Loneliness and pain experience. From when you lived here. From when you lived here. Yeah. But see, when I come out and I actually have something, I feel like a valid human being. And then I come out to this place, I get to watch guys like you and Joe Rogan and Bill Burr and all this.

And I remember all of you guys. When we were kids? Well, I remember a lot of you freaking open for me. And I tell people, you want to get successful in this business, open for me. And then I'll get to watch you go buy me. Come on. It's not a race. It's not a race, Steve.

It's a fucking crapshoot. This is like fucking standing at a roulette wheel. When you got the talent, you hope that you fucking hit your number. Well, let me put it to you another way, okay? Yeah. There's times in life when you fall into things. Then there's times in life where you make conscious choices. Sure.

So sometimes you make a conscious choice out of total- Desperation? Yeah, desperation. So I left here. I was with a woman. I was engaged. Yeah. I like these podcasts because you can get personal.

Sure. I don't have to do shtick. No. And then I came back, and it was the one winter where it was like raining every day. It was like a tsunami. And I had a guy. I had one of those Oakwood apartments, you know, those corporate apartments. Sure, the furnished ones.

The furnished ones. Yeah. And so the guy next to me, you could hear it through the wall. He had to call Africa every day at three because that's when they wake up. And I liked that he spoke from his heart, but I was getting homicidal. No, this is an important call. I have to make this call. It's my family. And then I was just overwhelmed with this tremendous sense of isolation. And what I said was, I don't know where I have to go,

but I got to get the fuck out of here. But let's go back, though, because when I was in Boston, I came in second in that riot in 88, 1988. Well, that was Chicago, the riots. No, that was an earlier riot. This was the WBCN riot. So I lost to Sue McGinnis., I lost to Suma Guinness. Oh, yeah.

You remember her? Yeah. How's she doing? Do you see her around? She's still doing it? I guess. All right. Yeah.

Yeah, she's probably doing it. So I started working then, you know, around Boston doing the one-nighters, working, you know, driving you guys around to different parts of the world. I remember driving Dick Dougherty somewhere. Dick Dougherty. He goes, you know what? You're a problem. You're insecure.

You're insecure. But, like, that's when I started doing the thing. When I started working for 111.88. And that's when I first started meeting you guys. And you, like, you, your crew was you and Gavin, George McDonald. Lenny. Lenny Clark. Kenny Rogerson.

Kenny Rogerson. Yeah. What is it? Warren McDonald, Mike McDonald. Yeah. Ciceler, Lazarus. That's funny. They were all around.

Everybody was around. Leary before he got big. So you guys were like, you you you were the the the big guys in the boston area and the weird thing about boston i don't think that people know but i've talked to a few guys on the show is that it was its own thing it's always been its own thing absolutely there are guys that you know have made a living a good living for you joe yannetti started with me yeah for years right and you know and it was was its own, you could work every weekend somewhere. Yeah.

But you were, like, it was, like, I just remember the first time seeing you, it must have been at, like, fucking Nick's. Yeah. And then I started doing shows there. Yeah. And it was a scary place, Steve, for an aggravated, sensitive Jew like myself. It's amazing I lived through it. It was a scary place for me.

I know. You know, we are not on camera, but this is a great joke. It's amazing. I lived through it. It was a scary place for me. I know. We are not on camera, but this is a great joke. Yeah. So I want you to ask me, was Nick's a mafia joint? Ask me that. Was Nick's a mafia joint? So what I just did was I said no and yes with a head shake.

Well, I mean, I remember those guys. I just remember they were like, you know, here's what I'm thinking. Like, here's the fucked up thing about, like, you know, you're coming over. And in my mind, I'm like, what happened to Trigger? Trigger Burke. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Trigger is no longer with us.

But I got to tell you something. You know, it's so funny. Where I grew up, I grew up with guys. Which town? Charlestown. Yeah. They made a movie of it called Town. But I grew up with professional criminals.

Right. Okay? Yeah. And my rite of passage was shoplifting. Right. Okay? Yeah. Which I was so bad at.

I mean, I was just like the worst. But Trigger, who was a petty thief, he'd done some time, whatever, but he was around the scene. I'll never forget this. 400 people at Nick's. I'm doing great. I'm on the stage.

The waitress, of course, they got no clue. They bring me a note. I figure somebody's car's being towed or somebody had a heart attack. Trigger Burke had sent me this note, toaster ovens, 20 bucks. He was selling hot fricking ovens. In the parking lot? So I grew up with this one guy and he, I was like selling, I wasn't selling. I was like in these cars and we ended up in this sort of armed robbery, blah, blah, blah. But anyway, that part of it's not interesting.

But this part of it is. So I do nicks, and I look out in the audience, and there's this guy from Charlestown, Joe, Joe Rocco. I'm going to use his name because he's no longer with us. And I killed. I got 400 people. It was practically a standing ovation. So I see him afterwards. He comes up to me, and I killed I get 400 people's practically a standing ovation so I see him afterwards he comes up to me and I said I was expecting him to say

Jesus great you got a child yeah all right like the show I didn't like the show but something to do with the event right so this is exactly what he said to me mark and he hadn't that look in his eyes it's gotta be a lot of money in here I said you came here so that I could case the joint from the freaking stage. Jesus Christ. But this is, the comedy just, you know, I guess the word is organic because you get all these guys in the street corner, you know, they're funny and why don't we try this.

But when I started, there was no comedy clubs. But like what, let me ask you something. I was opening for, you know, B and all right sugar shack and all this was like at that time like in Charlestown like how many kids in your family like what was I'm the youngest of five a five so yeah and that's it's not Southie it's Charlestown you better fucking believe it don't ever make that mistake there's the North End and this Charlestownown you go over the bridge right there yeah so what like like you're a little older than me like what was like what was the neighborhood like

i mean it was unbelievable but it in a good way but it's normal i thought it was unbelievable in a great way but but i would but there was a mix of people that things were normal. In my one-man show, which I call Townie, I talk about these events that happened to me in my life that were like, and people, you know, like Vietnam, for example. So I went to see a psychiatrist because I get drafted and everything. And I said, okay, so you know like when you see someone get shot, and they fall down, and the blood's coming out. You know how like when you have an armed robbery, and everybody leaves, and no one says that? And the psychiatrist said to me, no, that's totally outside my experience. Do you think everybody does?

I said, isn't that normal? So it was this wonderful mix. Everybody knew each other. It was like Charlestown was all Irish. The North End was all Italian. And I will never forget this. One of the most important things in Charlestown was,

you didn't have to win, but you had a fight. You didn't have to win, but you had a fight. Now, there were individual fights. Yeah. And I'll never forget Davey Ladda and the projects.

He broke one of the rules. These were fist fights, Mark. He kicked me in the balls and it was like, you know, it was like Pavarotti hitting the high notes. So then everybody jumped in, they got him. So those are the individual fights. But then there were town fights, the Irish guys against the Italians. So we were lined up on the bridge. So you'd be lined up against one guy. But I feel like you like movies I assume

sure I felt like I was watching a movie because being Irish we don't have any feelings everything's suppressed even the way we dance it's like everything's stiff

and this guy's across from me I'm gonna and it's like an operation I'm gonna take your fucking ear I'm gonna tear that off you're gonna have to fucking swallow that

then I'm gonna take your fucking eye and so I'm an actor. So when you're an actor, there's always you, and then you watching you, and then you watching the scene. I said, this is fucking great. This guy's amazing.

I forget I'm supposed to be fighting him. So it was all homogeneous. Is that the word? Did you grow up in a mixed neighborhood? Not really. I mean, where I grew up in New Mexico, Albuquerque, it was about, when I was growing up, it was about 60 or 70% Latino, but it, I don't know, it wasn't really mixed in the same way the East Coast places are mixed. Like my high school was mostly, you know, it's a large Latino community. But you're Jewish.

I'm Jewish, yeah. We came by way of Jersey to Albuquerque. How do you spell your last name? M-A-R-O-N. It's not, I just went, you know, I just did that Finding Your Root show. It's not a Jewish last name and it wasn't changed, but I'm a Jew all the way back. A hundred percent. DNA test came back. Jew.

Ashkenazi Jew. I can see you in New Mexico with the Latinos. Hey, you're still like Jackie Mason. I want to tell you the truth. Pueblos, hey, come on. We're going to go up to the Pueblos. Come on. It was a little like that.

What about American Indians? Were those guys there? They were around. Yeah, they were around. Are you a spiritual person? Somewhat. I don't know if I am. I probably not actively. Are you? Yes, very muchwhat. I don't know if I am. I probably, not actively.

Are you? Yes, very much so. What do you do? Are you still Catholic? Only for funerals. You know, you have to be respectful. Sure, of course. But I have practices, but I'm also interested in that part of the world for the Native American kind of thing, the Pueblo culture and all of that.

You can go see all that stuff. D.H. Lawrence wrote a book about- He lived in New Mexico. Yeah, and he said, you know what? This place, and of course he was English. He said, this place does not fit human beings. He said, there's something off about this because he was from a European culture, which is indoors. Oh, he wrote that when he was in New Mexico?

Yeah, he said, you know, Europeans are more indoors and everything. No space. Anyway, I have a fascination with those open places. What I do is every summer. Dennis Hopper did a lot of coke at that D.H. Lawrence place back in the day. Did he? I think he lived up there for a while. Yeah, you have a theory. You know, I love

Dennis Hopper. Greatest. Great. I love him. He had a look you know, when he was in like Apocalypse Now. This man's unbelievable. I'm telling you, you want to see this guy? You can go out and land on a fraction. Yeah, but then how about in

Blue Velvet? Oh yeah. Oh my God. Don't look at me. Don't look at me. And then with Starkwell there, who I later met when he played Roy Orbison. Yeah, yeah. Candy-colored clown, they call the clown man. A candy-colored clown, they call the clown man. Whispers in his arms.

And then between each bar, they were kicking the guy. But there was something about him that I just found lovable. And then, I'm really not going to get too personal about this, but in Hoosiers, when he played the alcoholic father, do you remember that movie? I love it. He was so vulnerable. He was beautiful.

But I saw him in New York. He was directing. He was a multi-faceted guy. Did a few movies. His movie, Out of the Blue, was one of the most devastating fucked up movies I've ever seen.

I've never seen that. But you're talking about open spaces. Yeah. I mean, that's what I do. I'm sober 26 years. Coming up on 27.

All the way through? Well, Sundays. We also give chips, you know, at AA. I always say, with salsa? But anyway, we're not going to go there. We can go there. I'm almost 20.

Wow, that's great. I'm fairly open about it on the air because I think it helps people. Tradition be damned, but that's my trip. Yeah, no, that's fine. So in the program, they they say find a god of your understanding so what i wanted to do mark was i didn't want to just say okay here's what i want in a god like a freaking casting session yeah you know i said well if i'm gonna find this i have to experience it it's like carl jung on his deathbed. They said, do you believe in God? And he said, no,

I know God. So what I did was I just went out to Zion National Park and Bryce Canyon and all of that. Yeah. And Red Rock Canyon outside of Vegas. And that's where I experienced the higher power. The white light moment? Yeah. A lot of them. Yeah. That's great. Yeah. What happened for me was I lost the obsession. Right. Which was very freaking painful. Took a while, right? A few years it took for me to really not think about it. I got it at once.

I got it at once because I bounced for 10 years and then I just prayed. I didn't know what I was praying to and that left. Then, of course, the obsession went right to the woman who had just left me. That fucking thing lasted forever. I took courses in what they call mind stopping and mind stopping yeah you look at you picture a white card and you just every time you get caught up in it but the but the way to the obsession the obsession because it's an obsessive compulsive personality disorder i'm living in it are you really every day Yeah. Mine manifests in, like I get, like I either go to dread and sort of get into a paralysis or I get anxiety where, you know, I have to do a bunch of little things here and

there. And I'm always, I'm eating these nicotine lozenges. I'm drinking tea all day. You know, it comes up in different places, but you know, as long as it's not making my life unmanageable. I can help you. With the white card? No, no. Would you like me to help you? Right now? Yes.

Are you going to tell me something or are you going to hit me? You've got to be open to this. Are you open to this? Okay. So I work in jails. I work at the Plymouth County Jail and I worked at Dedham and I work with kids. Yeah. So this

is something that was taught to me. There's two things. This is for your mind, which is the future's anxiety, the past is depression. Where are my feet? Right here. That's it. So you keep coming back to the same moment. But what really worked for me with all of this was to practice a breathing exercise, breathing in four, breathing out four. Now you're like me, you're all up in your fucking head. I know you're not going to do it. No, you won't. I know you, you're bullshitting me. But I'm telling you, when you're in some airport, which I've just been through for flights and the San Diego freeway, I just practice breathing deeply and the mind listens to the breath. So it helps me. Do you meditate as well? Yeah. I practice what

they call mindfulness. Right. Which meditation's got all this. That's the breathing and the, yeah. I sit there. Yeah. I start with these breathing techniques and I feel like Russell Brand now giving my bullshit out here. But anyway. No, no, it is helpful. What do you do in jails? I teach what I've just told you. I teach guys how to be in the moment.

And my official title is substance abuse counselor. Oh, so did you have to log some hours and get a little certificate? I have a master's in psychology and counseling. See, I used to hear this about you. You were this mythical character that I'd hear about occasionally. Because I remember, seriously, and we can get back to the evolution, but one of the last memories I have,

I remember when you were in trouble. You were in trouble. One of the last conscious memories I have, like I remember when you were in trouble. Like, you know, you were in trouble. Like one of the last conscious memories I have, and maybe I've seen you once or twice since then, was back in the 80s at Nick's. And I don't know, you had lost your mind. Yeah. And, you know, you were in the back room. It was sad. And you were bloody.

I don't think there was anyone else involved. I don't remember what happened. Oh, my God. But I just remember that Dominic was there. Oh, yeah. Maybe Jackie was there. Credico was there. There's a thing that I would like to introduce you to, if you don't know.

It's called cocaine-induced psychosis. I had it. Well, let me do the dialogue. Okay. Did you hear that? No. Did you hear that me do the dialogue. Okay. Did you hear that? No. Did you hear that? I didn't hear it.

Did you hear that? No. You had to hear that. That's cocaine-induced psychosis. My problem when I had it was like, do you hear the voices? I hear the voices. Yeah. Do you hear them?

You hear them? Yeah. And then the guy gets pissed off. You tell me you didn't fucking hear that. I was with a Vietnam vet who said, I said, listen, I got to go home. Why are you leaving? Well, we've been sitting here for 12 hours sweating, looking at each other. I was with a Vietnam vet who said, I said, listen, I got to go home. Why are you leaving? Well, we've been sitting here for 12 hours sweating, looking at each other. I think it's appropriate to leave.

Isn't it amazing we lived through it? It's fucking amazing, man. It's a gift. So from Charlestown to acting, I mean, how do you make the decision to get off the bridge and pursue the dream? My brother was 19. I was 19. My brother called me up. He said, Smith College. He says, do you want a job for the summer? bridge and pursue my brother was 19 i was 19 my brother called me up he said smith college

he says do you want a job for the summer and i and i said uh i don't know i guess so yeah and he said what is it he said acting so i said jimmy you know i'm not gay why do you ask me that because everybody who i knew in charlestown that was good but An actor was good. But it was Smith College. Yeah. And I got, I went up there and it was all girls. I loved it. Yeah. But I got to tell you, you've done some acting. But yeah, but you weren't in the acting program?

You were just- No, no, no. I was nothing. Yeah. But you've done some acting. Yeah. So when you first start and you feel an emotion- Yeah. You really think you're good.

Yeah, right. You know? I'm still in that phase. But I was doing Shakespeare. Right. And I had that horrible Boston accent. Right. But I was a big, tall guy.

So I was Macbeth. And I was like, is that a dagger that I see before me? And you think you're being great. You know, or Richard you know, Richard III. Yeah. Ahas. Ahas. Come on.

You know what it's like? Where were you doing this? But that was at Smith. I know, but like you weren't in the college? It was just a job? It was a summer theater. Oh, a summer theater. I get it.

And then I went back to UMass and I studied it. But have you ever sat through some of these college productions? Not lately. Well, it's fucking awful. But the other kids, they were all from New York and they had accents too. You know, I want to tell you the truth. There's been a bit, hey, Macbeth, there's been a bit of horror. Really?

But then I got the bug and I love theater. I still love it to this day. And I was a doorman at the theater. Where? As a stagehand at the Shubert, the Colonial. And it's now the Wang Center. And I saw all these amazing actors. Like who?

Well, I saw him. He wasn't performing. Yeah. But Joan Plowright was doing a play, and she was married to Laurence Olivier. No, yeah. So Laurence Olivier came in, and I swear to God, he went in. You're not going to believe this. I'll believe it.

But he went in the sub shop to buy a sub. I said, Laurence Olivier is ordering a freaking sub. Yeah. So my mind is saying. Guy's got to eat. Guy's got to eat. But I'm saying to myself, he's saying, I love a pepper and cheese with onions. Is that for here or to go?

But I'll tell you who I saw. And I later did a movie with him. It was Christopher Plummer. Yeah. Saw Richard Burton, Duequist, Jack Lemmon. You know, it was wonderful. It was amazing. And you were a kid, like 20?

Yeah, early 20s, yeah. And then I did a one-man show, and I fell into stand-up because I did a one-man show of all these characters, and then I was broke. And the guy said, why don't you go up there as yourself? The first year, I didn't even use a mic. Yeah, you could get big, man. Yeah, but I fell into it, man.

I fell into it. And I said this to Joe. I said, I got into stand-up to get acting work and I'm still fucking waiting no I've been on a lot of movies and and I just produced my first movie Sweeney killing Sweeney and listen to this cast Stephen Wright Bobby Slayton Frank Santorelli Nick Tony Miller, Nick DiPaolo. Jonathan Katz, I saw in the trailer. John Katz. How brilliant is he? He's got a great line in the movie. He said, you know, my uncle, who was a well-known judge, and even when he was down and out, and he was a bum in

the Bowery, people still said to him may I approach the bench how great a line is that yeah no the movie it looks good and it looks fitting like I you know I completely get the premise yeah because like you were yeah you were and are the character guy but but it was it's interesting just the the arc of it so you're you're doing a one-man show and who approaches you there's no stand-up at that time there's no clubs yet is. So you're doing a one-man show, and who approaches you? There's no stand-up at that time. There's no clubs yet. Is that what you're telling me? No. They started, well, no, there were no comedy clubs.

I did the one-man show at the Charles Playhouse. Oh, yeah. And that became the Comedy Connection, right? Yeah. And they said, you know, I was just doing this crazy shit. Then I did it at the Ding Ho. I was exploring, and that was, you know. So the Ding Ho was around.

That started, like like years later. But I was still doing these fucking crazy characters. Right. Like my heroes were like Lily Tomlin, Jonathan Winters, that stuff. There was a precedent for doing that type of comedy. And to me, since then, nobody touches Carlin Pryor, Lily Tomlin, Jonathan Winters for me. Sure. No one's touched them.

So you're doing this stuff, and when do you start working as comedy? Because I'm sort of fascinated with that whole thing, because I got there a little late. Yeah. The first time I started doing comedy there was in college in 84. So I was doing- Where did you go to college? Boston University. Wow.

Yeah. So I was doing, the first time I tried stand-up, I was doing open mics and go to college? Boston University Wow Yeah So I was doing the first time I tried stand up I was doing open mics Yeah and played against Sam's Yeah Right

Stitches the original one Yeah What happened to Harry? Harry Yeah Harry Conforti I think he's still probably

working for Pat Lyons Okay Yeah I remember Harry You know He's a good guy Yeah Yeah

And you know but it was like he could work at ace hardware harry yeah he could work anywhere you know he had that kind of hey what's going on yeah you know it goes through guys like that go through life they don't go through life like us no no they find a gig they enjoy life is it they seem like the kind of people everything bounces off yeah their whole attitude is like, whatever. Yeah. I can't. I envy it, but then some days I'm grateful. So that's 84. But when the ding-ho was, I went to open mics at the ding-ho.

Yeah. That was Lenny's night, Wednesday nights. My night was Sunday nights. Lenny's night. That's right. I always had these issues with, like, you know, Kenny Rogerson used to have the open mic. It played against Sam's. Yeah. And you put your name on a fucking

list and he gets shit faced in the middle of the show and there was like a couple of times where like he just forgot to put me on and I stayed there all night but when you're an open mic or half he is hoping you don't go on but I just used to watch and watch and the names would go by names would go by and then he closed the show and be like what the fuck

and here's how I look at it yeah all of those humiliating, debilitating, awful experiences create who you are. Like for me, I remember this guy said to me, and, you know, I was making a living and everything, and he said to me, why are you bitter? And I said, wow, this is a choice I make. But I can remember being humiliated doing this job. There was one incident played at Ground Round, me and Jay Charbonneau,

and the guy was throwing ice. How's Jay Charbonneau? He's great. Yeah. But he, the guy was throwing ice at him on the stage. You can always count on Jay for a snap. He'll snap, man. Yeah.

Isn't that what happened? Yeah. But he did his thing. Yeah. Isn't that what happened? Yeah, so, but he did his thing. Yeah. My opening line mark, right? Can you imagine this? Yeah, I can. You go to a fucking comedy show and the comedian's opening. That's a ground

round. The opening line of the comedian was this. I said, any motherfucker that throws a fucking piece of ice at me, I'm fucking going right over. Now, let's have fun. It's like, forget about it. You had to, but that was the nature of the one night. But I feel like

it's humiliating, it's debilitating, but it builds you up. So that now, I don't take any shit. If they're texting, turn it off. I'm not going to be clever. I got one line for it. I said, look, you're putting us out of a job. Because the comedian of the future, I'll text you a joke.

You text back LOL. That's the end of it. But I had one woman in the audience, and she looked at me in this kind of superior way. Well, I can multitask. I said, oh, good. So when I stick it up your ass, you're still going to be, you know. Good one. But then when I came out here the last time, and I was on Joe over there at the improv,

the audience was fantastic. I said, oh, my God, they're here to actually see comedy. Yeah. I can see why people like it out here. Yeah, there's good nights now. You know, the clubs are like kind of popping again. You know, Joe pulls people in. You know, the comedy store is great.

It's always packed. Is that where you work? I do primarily the comedy store when I'm in town. I like it. Yeah. It's like I had a lot of experiences there. I feel like I belong there. I had a lot of experiences there.

Believe me. I'm sure I had similar experiences. With Sam Kenniston? I had them too. The same experience. With Sam? With Sam, but later probably. Oh, my God.

We were up at Joni. He bought a house from Joni Mitchell. The one in Malibu? No, this was up on a hill. What year was this? I lose track of the years, but we're all up there, and we're in this little room with all the stuff. The stuff, yeah.

And I said, I could be in fucking Somerville in an alley. You know, this is like. It was crazy. The boy, Sam. Ooh, Jesus Christ. I spent a lot of hours with him. Me too. Jesus Christ.

Yeah. Okay. Look me in the eye, Sweeney. I can't trust a man who doesn't look me in the eye. He had that thing. Yeah, yeah. I was like, fuck. I thought I was bad.

You know what I mean? I was like, what am I doing in this room? I was a one-on-one, man. Three days. You were? Sure, man. I mean, I lived in that fucking house up behind the comedy store later. I was there in 87.

So you must be talking about early, before he broke, right? Or was it? No, this was after he broke. And he was big, but he... Oh, maybe it was later. But he was brilliant. When were you out here? You know what, Mark?

You keep asking me years. Oh, I'm sorry. That's okay. But I'm just trying to figure out, was it before or after? I understand that I don't remember a day of the 90s. I get it. But I was here when Lenny was here. Like, I was here when Lenny was in that crew.

Yeah, it was Lenny, Carla Bow, Sam Kenna. Right, right. So he was running with them, but you weren't around. So you were already back home or you hadn't come yet. Yeah, but he would bring himself. Sam. Yeah, would bring. And then I did the movie with him.

Back to school. Back to school, right. Yeah. So that was before me. Then he had another wonderful opportunity. He was like, but the best comedian I ever saw and ever will see was Richard Pryor. Right. At the comedy store?

Yeah, I saw him every day. But I also saw his movies and he was thrilling. But George Carlin, those guys, you know. So the Ding Ho, the Sunday nights. Yeah. That was your night. I just did characters, that's all. I just got up and did characters.

But people don't realize that this was a Chinese restaurant that had a show had a showroom yeah jimmy tingle was the bartender yeah before he became a comedian yeah mark clark was the doorman mark that's right mike booked it mike clark booked it barry cremin started the whole thing right on the wednesdays him and lenny yeah yeah and then you just so you would guys. It wasn't an open mic yours. You'd have you and you'd do like. No, I did all characters. It was just me. So you'd just do it for an hour, hour and a half?

Oh, yeah. When does the sort of career really in Boston take off? When does Nick's happen? I did, well, I did HBO Young Comedians with John Candy. Oh, yeah, that's right. That's right. That was like, I'm going to tell you right now if you want to date, 83. All right, so I did that.

Yeah. And then I was on Letterman. Yeah. I remember seeing you on Letterman. Yeah, so I did a lot. A couple times. How many times did you do that? Just once.

Yeah. Or as Kenny Rodgers would say, I did it when it was in black and white. So then I did that. Kenny was so fucking funny. How's he doing? Kenny's doing great. Oh, good. And he's, of course, he's condemned.

You know what the moving prisons are, don't you? No. They're called cruise ships. Oh, yeah. That fucking life. Jesus Christ. Him and Gavin. Doesn't Gavin live on a dock?

Oh, my God. Does he live in Portland or something? No, he lives in Boston. Oh, my God. You know, this is a weird subject to talk about, but I think I can talk about it with you safely. Okay. The isolation of that kind of life is just,

if you are drinking, you're all set. Yeah, if you are. Yeah. Yeah, sure. You're not going to run into anything. If you're not drinking, oh, my God, this is a floating bar room. There's that, too. But you and I seem similar in that, you know, that the, like, what you were explaining when you were out here, you know, living in those apartments and not working, that, like, I can feel very isolated among people.

Like, even if, like, It doesn't matter where I am. If I get that loneliness, I'm not part of it. It's just paralyzing and dark. It can get very horrible very quickly. The idea of being on a boat, not only not drinking. My biggest concern is what if you have a shit show? You got to walk up and down the fucking boat and those people that you perform for,

they're going to be there for the whole three or four days that you're on the boat you you're captive of the audience you can't get away no don gavin does a great thing at the end of his act he says listen if you see me on the ship and i'm reading or whatever don't come up and say hi to me yeah and they all think it's a joke and then they they'll come up to him and he'll say, didn't I tell you? Don't bother me. But yeah, you're stuck with the audience. It's just my life has changed because- Wait, we're back in 1983. So you do Letterman.

All right. I'm sorry. Go ahead. And then you do the Young Comedians and you do Letterman. And then there was that moment. This is sort of the bigger question I have. It's like where there's something about know, you're taken care of. You know, Mike Clark's working.

You got the, you know, you're in it. They're taking care of you. And that, you know, that's scary and good when Nick's is taking care of you. But there was a time there where, you know, all those like Mike and everybody, there was a lot of work. And Nick's was opening rooms everywhere. But you wanted to make a go of it. So you came to New York. I remember you going down to New York

and trying to cut in. Yeah, I was in New York and I was in LA. I was in the New York laugh off and I came in fifth, fourth. What a fucking humiliating experience that was. Yeah, it beat you. You're standing on the stage

and Joe Bolster. Oh, yeah. But you're standing on stage, and then they announce the other story, and you've got to go up and pretend you're happy. I remember I auditioned for Ed McMahon's show. Do you remember that one? Star Search.

And I said, here I am auditioning for something I don't want, and I'm being rejected. That's the fucking thing about show business. You feel like you should go for everything or you got that desperation of like, I got to make a break. And then you're doing shit like it's just terrible. I did things on camera where I'm like, why the fuck did I do that? They didn't even need a funny guy.

Yeah. But okay, so you decided to move to. to make a go of it, right? Yeah. Well, I had been out here earlier because I went to USC for graduate school. For what, two years? That was three. And then I came- In acting?

No, I got my master's in writing. Really? Yeah, MFA. You went to a lot of colleges. Yeah, I went to school. But this was after you did comedy or before? Before. Oh. Yeah. colleges yeah so you were cool but you were this was after you did comedy or before before yeah so i when i was going to usc i loved it i was living in venice yeah i was so poor i was taking buses

who the fuck takes buses out here i know i don't know how long it takes i don't know how long it can only i was you know i got a friend of mine jimmy labriola he's always wanting to go one foot in and one foot out i know that that guy. Yeah. Yeah. And so he wanted to be a bus driver. You know, you always thinking too, there's gotta be another job. I want to be a grow guy cook. I just want to flip eggs. So, so the bus drivers out here, I was so fascinated. How many routes do you do a day? And they only do a few because it's the streets are so long. And, you know, I went back and I'd say to the bus drivers back and forth, The streets are so long.

And, you know, I went back, and I'd say to the bus drivers back and forth, how many do you do? I'm 20. I fucking hate it, you know? Fucking hate it. So anyway. I took a bus to my first evening in the Improv down there in Santa Monica. I did five of those evenings at the Improv. In the late 80s.

Right, at the one in Westwood, right? Yeah. Or wherever, Santa Monica. They had great hosts for those things. Sure, they had everybody. Yeah, that was cool. Bud was always good to me. Yeah, I saw him the other night.

You did? Yeah. His daughter had a benefit for a school at the improv, and he was there. I think he might have had a little stroke or something, but he's good. How old is Bud now? I don't know. He's got to be almost 80, if not more. He was always very nice to me.

Well, that's good. When I was out here, there was like a thing where you don't work, you work the improv or you work the other place. You can't work both. Well, I couldn't work either. I was a doorman at the store in 87. You were? Yeah, that's when I got in trouble with Sam, yeah, for about a year. Did you work with that fighter out there?

Remember there was a fighter? He came, Vinnie Curdo. No, he came after. Wow. I was in and out within a year. I was fucked up with cocaine psychosis. I went back to Boston, and that's when I met you guys. You could feel it in the comedy store.

When you walked in, you could feel it, the darkness. Oh, dude, it's gone now. A lot of that was in my head. It took years to shake it, because when you have cocaine psychosis, everything means a lot more than it really does. Oh, it's unbelievable. Oh, it's all loaded, man. Never good.

How about when somebody, yeah, there's this incredible need to say something, even though there's absolutely nothing to say. Oh, yeah, and you're interrupting people to say it. You get to say nothing. But there's that moment where I've timed it one night. A guy said goodnight, and he didn't leave for until another

hour no i'm leaving okay guys i'm leaving okay really i'm leaving okay i used to watch those dudes man because you're afraid to be alone you're afraid to be together you know lenny's good and sober now too right 23 years yeah oh my god do i remember you guys man i remember you guys like he was he could go, he could go, man. He could go. Oof. Yeah. I mean, I guess that's part of it.

I mean, if you look at a lot of great artists, people used to say to me, all the comedians, are you all just always screwed up? I said, only the good ones, really. Yeah. Because if somebody was really looking for a job, you know, with short-range, mid-range, long-range goals, this is not the job. There's a whole new generation that seem a lot more socially adept than we were.

I'll tell you that. Really? Yeah, the people that come up and sketch and working with other people. Working with other human beings. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a whole different thing. But the old school guys, yeah, a lot of us are a mess. You know, I went back to the improv the last time I was out here, and I hadn't been there in years.

And I expected people to look at me, what's this old fart doing here and everything? And people were so respectful. Oh, yeah. It was nice. And they knew me. Yeah. Which was like, I always feel like I'm just this regional guy.

But, you know, I've done a lot of stuff. And, I mean, you know, when you look at your past, sometimes I saw Bill Murray in a great interview. Have you interviewed him, too? No, I'd like to. He's one of the guys that's like a white whale. I can't get him. He, Charlie Rose, who we don't even have to get into where he is now, you know, but he said to Bill Murray, he did all this stuff.

And Bill Murray said, yeah, I wish I was there for it. Yeah. And I knew exactly what he was saying. He wasn't in the moment he wasn't enjoying it I'm trying to do that now because you want to get I don't know what it is

you don't appreciate the process and you don't even know exactly what your goal is but it ain't what you're doing necessarily but maybe that's the problem we have is the idea of a goal in other words it's like the journey is is the destination you know so where are my feet that's what i say all day where are my feet my my ex-wife uh from years ago who got me sober used to she

used to do that trick with me when i was first getting sober she had a few years yeah and she'd go like you know when i'd be spinning she'd go what color your shoes wow yeah where are we where what's on the wall that's good huh yeah the same idea yeah so you so when you go out to la the second time how long were you out here you do what were you going on dishes yeah i was doing the whole thing i. I got what they call a holding deal from Carsey Warner Productions. They paid me not to do anything, and it was amazing. Like one of those good ones, a couple hundred grand? No, it was like 50 grand. That's good.

But it was like, this is fantastic. It's like a city job. You're paid to just do nothing. And you're doing sets at the store? Yeah. Yeah. Then that ended, and I don't know what happened. I just decided I didn't want to be here.

I felt when you grow up in a close-knit community like Charlestown, you get used to that. Yeah. And that's where my people, my family, I love my family, and they were back east. You still got people? Yeah. Yeah. I got great people back there my one sister lives in situate one sister lives in revere my brother lives in washington and i would like to say though that what i liked about doing this

movie was just the first time i felt this in many years i got to that family feeling oh yeah when you do a play in college or whatever? You mean with the people you were working with? Yeah. Oh, yeah. It was great. We all pulled together. Well, I mean, I want to, like, you know,

I'm certainly, I just was trying to, like, because you mentioned back to school you were in that, and, you know, you've done, you sort of show up in the Farrelly Brothers movies that you're sort of around, and then didn't you have a gig where, didn't you get a show for a little while, like a sitcom? I did.

I had a sitcom in Boston, and I was on that show Alf out here. I did a lot of these little. Yeah, right. That guy was insane. Which guy? The guy Alf. You know that show Alf? Yeah.

That guy was crazy, man. The guy who created it or the guy who did Alf? He did it. He did it, and he created it, and he'd be underneath the desk and, oh, look at me. Wow, this guy's got issues. Yeah. But then I wrote

and I acted in a George Carlin's thing and I got to know him. It was a sitcom that went to HBO. What was that called? I forget what it was called because they didn't pick it up. It was a pilot, which was weird. You know, George Carlin. But I got to be around him.

Oh, yeah? How was that for you? One of the most brilliant minds I've ever met in my life. We were in Portland, Mass. Yeah. Portland, Maine. Excuse me. And we were driving back, and he named all the constellations.

I said, wow, look what a mind. Oh, he was like meticulous, real anal dude. Like he had all the jokes on note cards. There was no riffing. In his office in Westwood, he'd have all his albums stacked up and books. He was just very nice to me. He was good. I saw his later specials, and I saw him on Bill Maher.

Yeah. He seemed like a different guy to me. Yeah. are yeah seemed like a different guy to me yeah i mean well you know when that i think that when guys start to really especially guys who are prolific and guys who were you know uh you know fighting the power punching up you know it starts to get dark you know what i mean i think i don't think anything happened to carl another than he he got old and he got more cynical and you know it makes sense yeah how else was he gonna go i Yeah, that's a good point. In other words, you've been doing it your whole life and you're still talking about the same stuff.

Yeah. And it gets, and certain things aren't resolved and certain things are getting worse. And for a guy like him, who's pointing out the hypocrisies, you know, you're going to get overwhelmed eventually and just be like, fuck it all. Yeah. Fuck it. Yeah. But what I liked about George was he took shots at both sides. Yeah. And he went after political correctness, which I think is fantastic. Sure. You got to get the balance.

Got to figure out the balance. This creative power, man, that goes through all of us. You can't try to tame it and say you can say this, you can't say that. Well, it's all up to you. I mean, there's no law that says you can't. You just got to make sure where you got to figure out where it's coming from and whether or not you know you're okay with that it's really still on you but do you feel I don't feel I'm in control of that when I'm really in touch with something

things come out of me like in one like in one two-minute like like like I used to write spit beaver and all this bullshit and it all came in once what beaver? oh I had this bit about leave it to beaver but it all came like in a flash so that creative energy you have to turn off me anyway

turn off the editor especially when you're on stage I've had stuff get away from me that I do regret when I said certain things on stage. I've had stuff get away from me that I do regret. Yeah. You know, when I said certain things on stage. But, you know, you look at a guy like Michael Richard. Is that who played Kramer? Michael Richard, yeah.

So he leaves a sitcom. Then he goes on stage. Yeah. And he doesn't realize it's like a war out there sometimes. Somebody heckles him. He just says whatever comes up. Now he's you know like pariah life sentence yeah well i mean i i don't know like you know it wasn't that yeah

he was on a sitcom but it wasn't like he was he was coming back to the stand-up stage i don't know that he was ever really his racket really uh and you know and it got away from him yeah sure it's a brilliant physical actor oh no funny as hell yeah as hell. But I mean, I don't think that there are those moments that you make mistakes, but I think it's the committing to the mistake and then defending it. I think it's more about, am I correct in where it's coming from in my heart?

Do I feel all right with that? And if you can answer that with a yes, then you shouldn't have any problem defending yourself. But if it's dubious, you should figure out why for yourself and then decide whether it's worth it. Wow. That's pretty good. You know what I mean? Yeah. I mean, it's like, you know, is it that hard? Why don't you write that down? That was pretty good. Well, you know, I think about it all the time because there are fights to be fought, but some of them are, you know, are they really worth the fight?

You know, is it so essential to your bit that you say fag that, you know, you're going to go to the mats for that? Do you know what I mean? I do, but you know what? That's just an example. I wasn't pointing at a specific bit. Right, but, you know, it's like with me, I don't purposely offend people. The object is not to offend people. And some of it, if it's offensive, that's on you. I mean, to me, that's true. To me, it's all on them because I'm an actor. I do different races, different dialects.

Yeah, I get that. So does that make it racist? Well, if you think that, that's on you because it's not. That's not your intention that yeah and and if there's any kind of objective uh you know criticism then it's not anyway um i understand what you're saying but yeah carlin definitely took shots at both sides and yeah but it was it must have been an honor to just it was unbelievable. You know, but I did this movie with Denzel. Yeah. And then I was working

with Christopher Plummer and I was just pinching myself and saying, let me get this straight. I'm doing a scene with Denzel Washington. I know.

And then this other thing is, hey, will you freaking say your lines? Do your job. Because you're looking at him. Do your job. It's like going one-on-one

with Michael Jordan. You say, I can't believe that I have this extraordinary experience to do this. Yeah. You know, it's a career that you just find yourself meeting these people, and it's like, wow, how the heck did I get here? You don't know what the fuck's going to happen.

So like building back up to the movie, so you go back to Boston after Los Angeles. You're still in the game. Who's managing you? Mike? No manager. Ever? No.

I had a couple. I had Ted Curland who managed Pat Metheny. He was a good guy. You know, you don't need a manager. You don't need a... What is there to manage when you're in Boston? You know what I mean? Well, that's the question.

So how do you stay in the game? Well, I... Back then, essentially. Well, you know what the funny thing is? And this is how the universe works. Yeah. So I'm out here, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. Giving my power away to the big powers,

whoever they are, and just trying to win the lottery out here, chasing ghosts. I come back and all these movies are starting to be made in Boston. I get a movie with peter falk yeah another movie with uh jim care um danny ackroyd and all these guys and one thing after another just getting cast because directors like me because i go in and i make my

audition an event yeah like it's not this polite thing thank you much. I try to do something that's memorable. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. But I show them a range of things and they all want me on the set. Right. So if there's a part that fits, not. But like every actor, of course, 95% of the time you strike out. But that doesn't mean anything, you know, because I've cast movies. And if you're not right, you're not right. Right. Now, did you have a relationship with Rodney? Yeah. You did? Yeah.

I met Rodney at Caesars and he had been up for a day or whatever. And he was involved in the same junk that we were all. Of course. And I went up to his room at Caesars Palace. He had this table and I swear to God, Mark, I had never seen so much Chinese food on one table, and that was just for him. Yeah. And he was in his bathrobe. And then we were down there, and then I went to a commercial.

Remember those Budweiser commercials he did? Yeah. And Friedberg was standing. One of them was directing it. And then I saw him again. And he was, what I used to say about Rodney to myself was he was a good guy, but he wasn't a happy guy. For sure. Whereas Carlin was, he was pretty happy.

Yeah. Richard Lewis said, you know, Rodney used to call it the heaviness. He had the heaviness, the depression. Yeah. The heaviness. He was, when I knew him, he met this woman down on Malibu Beach, one of these beaches, and she didn't know who he was. And he thought, that was really great.

This woman doesn't know who I am. But at the time, he was like one of the most famous people. He was unmistakable. Yeah. So even when we did our little scene, which we shot at USC, this guy, you know, this homeless guy,

he said, hey, Rodney, I don't get any respect either. I mean, everybody knew him. It was cool. The funny thing and sad thing about Rodney is that, you know, after all is said and done,

posthumously, he actually does not get the respect he deserves. He doesn't. You know what I mean? What's your favorite Rodney joke? There's a few of them. I remember the first time I encountered Rodney Dangerfield was when I was a little kid and they used to have the My Favorite Joke section at the back of Parade magazine. Yeah.

It was that I woke up and I went out to get out of the bedroom and the doorknob came off. And then I went down and made some toast or something and the handle on the toaster came off. It just built up to him going, like, I'm afraid to go to the bathroom. I'm afraid to go to the bathroom. Yeah, he had the joke and then he added the character and the physical. My favorite joke is because it's the misdirection. Your mind goes in one direction.

He says, I go to the dentist the other day for yellow teeth. He says, wear a brown tie. I love that joke. Yeah. I love him. He was something else. So you stayed up in Boston. And then how does it look when you hit the wall with the shit?

Oh, you know, sick and tired of being sick and tired. Then I went on and saved my life. Yeah. Then I changed from the inside out, and I appreciate everything that I have now, whereas before I had a lot and I didn't appreciate any of it. Sure. You know, so.

Were you teaching at Harvard? No, I taught at Suffolk I didn't appreciate any of it. Sure. You know, so. Were you teaching at Harvard? No, I taught at Suffolk. Okay. And I taught at UMass. I taught at Quincy College. Acting? I did acting and writing. And I liked it a lot.

Right now, though, I'm more into producing my own stuff. Yeah. Because as John Katz did this years years ago you did your own thing yeah and pete fairly of all people he came to the opening of the movie and he said this is the way to do it yeah he said you know you got to just do your own thing he just did the the green uh he's an incredible guy i can't thank him green book right yeah green book he wrote the screenplay yeah and he won best, and he directed it. What's his brother doing?

Peter and Bobby. Bobby's doing other similar things like that. Are they Boston guys? The Rhode Island guys. Yeah. Beautiful guys, you know? Yeah. So, you know, we only have so much time on this earth.

Yeah. So I spend my time with people I like. That's nice. So what's the- I had to learn that in therapy. My therapist said, do you know that you don't have to be with people you don't want to be? And I said, really?

He said, yeah. Then you got to be careful just not to be by yourself. Because I have that thing where it's sort of like, yeah, okay, I don't want to hang out with people I don't want to hang out with. But then it's like, who am I? Do you find now that you're famous, which you are? It's manageable, though. I have a manageable family.

But, I mean, I come up to your house and I say, this is great. Well, I got no wife. I got no kids. I got no debt. I'm saving money. I don't know what for. You got high bushes. It's kind of beautiful.

Thanks. Well, yes, it's all new to me because I can't take new to me, you know, but, uh, because I, you know, I can't take it with me. So I had to figure out like, you know, cause I have a comics brain. It's sort of like,

I'm not going to spend any fucking money. I don't know when that money's going to go away. That's good. Yeah. But then to think that way, I still do. But then I was sort of like, well,

I got to enjoy myself. Why not? Like I've earned something. Maybe this idea of buying a new place is, is a nice thing to do for oneself. I went to Steven Tyler's house and, you know, we know each other because of Boston and, you know, he's great. Is he out here?

No, this was when he was in Marshfield, Mass. Oh, yeah. He had the high hedges and the whole thing. And I said, that's nice. You come home and you're at peace, you know? Yeah. That's a nice thing. Did he say he was?

You know, we're you know? Yeah. That's a nice thing. Did he say he was? You know, we're all driven. Yeah, sure. If your idea of peace is like, and I get it why people want to do this, is to retire, for example. Right. So work is not part of peace. For me, it's a process. I've got to have meaningful work. So what is the, now let's talk about the two things.

The one-man show is called what? Townie. It's about growing up in Charlestown. And I'm going to shoot that in November – I mean in September. And the other thing that I'm really proud of is called Sweeney Killing Sweeney. I play six characters, and I have all of these incredible comedians and a great director, Lisa Mola. But these are characters that you've done in your act. Yeah.

So what happens is HBO comes to town. They said, we want you. Get rid of the characters. They're too local. They want to do a special. Yeah. So then the characters decide to try to kill me. So they come after me.

Right. And I get to work with all of these great guys, you know, Lenny and, as I said, Frank Santorelli, Tony V, and Stephen Wright, and John Katz, Bobby Slate, and Nick DiPaolo. I've interviewed all those guys. Yeah. I've literally interviewed all of those guys. Yeah. I mean, check the movie out.

You'll really like it. Well, I think it's sort of like when I read the description and I saw the trailer, it's like, you know, this is, it seems to me that this is, you know, actually when I see you with Tony V in that car and he's going, you got to lose the characters. Like that, that this is a, how's he doing? All right. Tony's doing great. Is this a real conversation you've had? There has been this struggle in your life that there was a sort of like the regionality, the regional nature of your act, which has been your bread and butter for your entire career, on some level does hold you back.

But Bill Broadus wrote this script. I started with Broadus. Yeah, great guy. And he wrote this script. But that was the truth for me. But then I chose life over a career. So nothing's actually holding me back because what is it holding me back from? But also, when I go other places, people ask me the stupidest questions.

Like they say, when you go to Las Vegas, do you do Boston jokes? I said, yeah, I'm a real idiot. I refer to Boylston Street. What are you, out of your freaking mind? Sure. What do you think, I'm that stupid? Right. Like when I did the improv out here, I came out on stage and I said, this is amazing, Los Angeles.

You know, it reminds me of the National Park, all these people camping out. Yeah. On the street. And I said, the guy said, do you have any change? I said, no, what you want is marshmallows. You want to cook out. And then I said, I was up in San Francisco and I did all the touristy things, but then I wanted to live like, I'd be like a native. So I took a shit in the street and the people loved it. So local is just a reference. And you can riff. Yeah, you can riff. Yeah, you can riff.

Of course you can. Funny is funny. Yeah. And how do you, like, without spoiling it, I mean, like you say in your life, you've chosen life. So you have some resolution. But, I mean, it seems like there's a deeper meaning and that Broadus knows you well enough to know that, you know, to be haunted by characters is one thing. But to actually be physically pursued by them is another. But is there some sort of cathartic conclusion to the end?

Yeah, it has a trick ending. Oh, good. It's two different endings. There's a part of me, you know, it's funny you talk about this because I've always seen things through. So you have this societal pressure that says success equals rich and famous. Right. So I never questioned why I left.

Like I knew it was the right thing for me. Left LA. Sure, yeah. I left once too. I didn't want to come back. But now when people are opening doors, doors of course it's a different place this is a shitty horrible place when you got nothing to do pal absolutely it's the fucking worst and i've been here for that i've been back and forth several times like there are different points in my career where when i lived out here

back in the day when i was a doorman at the store, I left with cocaine psychosis. I went back to Boston. I figured it out. I did six months of opening for Frank Santos, and I learned. I figured I got back to it. I went back to the trenches. I come back years later, get a divorce. Things crap out. I'm back in New York.

I've had that relationship with the city. With the business. Oh, yeah, dude. Yeah. york like i've you know i've had that relationship with this city but with the business oh yeah dude yeah and then the irony of it is is like my biggest success happens on my own by my own will in my own fucking garage i know and that changes you know i remember reading about it i read about it i think in the times and all this is right the new york times that changed it yeah mark marron's doing this thing out of his garage, and I always said, good for him. Yeah.

You know, that's great. You probably had to clean the garage. I did eventually. But no, that's a funny thing. I don't think anyone's, it's not like I didn't pay my fucking dues. It's not like anything was handed to me. It's good to be, you know, to find success later in life

because there's not a lot of assholes could go like, that fucking guy cheated. He skipped his turn. But did you ever feel like you were paying? I never felt like I was paying dues. I never felt like I was a, I was 30 years old. I was making 40 bucks, 140 something a week, living in a loft in the South End, but I was acting.

And I never felt like I was suffering. I never felt like I was paying dues. I enjoy the work. No, I just felt like I wasn't good enough. I didn't feel like there was some conclusion to it. Obviously, I wanted to be a great comic. But when I look back on my time in Boston and doing all those one-nighters with you guys, going to fucking Worcester, to Lemonster, to Cranston, to Taunton, to fucking Johnny

Yee's. That was Hyannis, Johnny Yee's. Yeah, yeah. All over the place. So I don't really looking back on it i don't know how the hell i did that because they weren't easy things to do and i was you know a very specific type of guy but for some reason your generation you dealt with me you know there's other guys in my generation that you didn't deal with but for some reason i was

wrapped up enough and you guys were okay with me somehow and then you know what we're good guys we're just regular guys oh i know but like i wasn't uh you know i wasn't a boston guy but i always appreciated the fact that i could do it but i don't know how the fuck i did it so when i say i paid my dues i'm like when if you ask me like what was that like i'm like it was fucking hell man it was like it was warfare for me to figure out how to talk to a room me mark maron at age 21 this angry kind of existential you know heady fucking jewish guy you know is standing like i remember one time going on after leary at nicks and dennis whether he did well or not he was going to rip the room apart you know what i mean it was It was just good. And I got up there. I'm like, I'll just jump into his energy. And I got up there and I did seven minutes and I tanked so hard. I know.

The vacuum of it. But like, so what I'm saying is like, I don't regret any of that. Right. But I definitely did my time. I had to do the same thing. Of course. But that's paying dues whether you like it or not. Right.

When I was doing plays, there was a backstage, okay? There was a place where you prepared. You work in these shitholes always named after the guy. Yeah. Vinny's fucking dump hole. There's no place that you just, it's like fucking, it's just, right? And I had to learn how to do that. And then when you work in a theater and you're saying this oh shit they're listening to

me it's great and then you have to work in the subtlety and not go for the immediate laugh i think i say that because i'm proud of it because like i didn't come up like i'm not an alternative comic or whatever like i came up the old way yeah absolutely you know you paid those emotional dues oh man it gives you something it does i'm proud of it, man. It gives you something. It does. I'm proud of it. Whatever it is, it gives you something. And you know what happens to me is like I'm a very nice person now as far as like CVSs and drugstores and Starbucks. Sure. But I have this part of me that's like anytime I want, I can take over this fucking room.

She gives me a hard time. I can make a speech. Yeah, sure. You're a black belt and asshole. Yeah, very good. Absolutely. I know how to be an asshole. Yeah.

I know. But you try not to bring it out. Well, you don't want to use it. It's illegal to use it. But you know the thing is, you get cranky when you get older. And there's certain things. Like, I grew grew up you say uh i say thank you you say you're welcome so i pull up to like a mcdonald's i would say i say

thank you and then they don't say anything so there i'm giving a lecture to some 17 year old kid now when i say thank you you say you're welcome i'm saying what am i doing spending my day giving lectures giving him a memorable experience. This guy came. Or you say, thank you, and they say, no problem.

And I say, I know there's not a problem, but why am I in this conversation with these idiots, you know? Oh, man. It's funny. So do you still have

a club of your own? No. I work at Giggles, Mike Clark's club. At the Leaning Tower of Pizza? The Leaning Tower of Pizza. That's still going, huh? Oh, yeah.

It's a great room. Yeah? It's great? Yeah. And, you know, I work various places back east, and I'm trying to get these movies off the ground. I got another one I wrote that we're pitching the Irish film board about my trips to Ireland. What is that? Well, I wrote a movie about my bike trips in Ireland. It's about how people act like their nationalities.

I've done four of these bike trips. That's your thing, bikes? Bike and hike, but the tour guide was always hungover. He was Irish. Right. The Americans were always enthusiastic. What are we going to do today? And the Germans, very literal, you know, I'd say, they said to me, how was the town?

I said, it was all right. So it was good? Well, it was all right. So it was bad, you know? So I- No in between? Yeah. So I got that going, and then i have another movie that i'm

i want to get off the ground but uh i want to see this one through and yeah that's my that's my thing right now is just producing movies well you look great you sound great i'm very uh i'm very happy you're okay it was it was a treat to see you and talk to you? You know, Mark, I'm so proud of you, man, because it's like you did it your own way, number one. But also, you know, boy, it is a crapshoot, isn't it? You just did something. You weren't expecting anything, and here you are. You don't know, man. It's just like you always hear that.

It's not a meritocracy, no shit. And the sad thing is about very talented people is that they might destroy themselves. It just might happen. People who are just kind of talented but very focused, they seem to manage somehow. They know how to do life. Yeah, I did not. But there's guitarists out there playing in little bars in Ohio. That are geniuses.

Absolutely. There's guys in rep companies, theater guys, that they'll never get anywhere. And my brother's one of them. My brother's a brilliant actor. And they're out there and they're just creating magic and mesmerizing. Does your brother have peace in his life? Oh, yeah. He's out of the business.

Oh, yeah. there of peace in his life? Oh, yeah. He's out of the business. Okay. So, listen, the movie is on- The courage of that man. Yes, you better believe it. The movie's on iTunes.

It's called Sweeney Killing Sweeney. It's going to be on Amazon on Wednesday. It's been a real treat. Thank you. It's good talking to you, Steve. All right, my man. There you go. The legend,

Steve Sweeney, Boston zone. Yeah, it was, uh, that was something, man. It was,

it was wild. You know, it was, there was parts of it that were just as intimidating as they were when I was, uh, you know, 25 or however old I was. Uh,

again, his movie, Sweeney killing Sey, is available on iTunes and Amazon. He'll be at the Improv Asylum in Boston this Sunday, June 23rd, doing his one-man show, Townie. I have to go shoot some movie now. Oh, God. Now I'm exhausted. I haven't teed up for the day completely. Okay, bye.

Boomer lives! Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means.

I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Discover the timeless elegance of cozy, where furniture meets innovation. Designed in Canada, the sofa collections are not just elegant, they're modular, designed to adapt and evolve with your life. Reconfigure them anytime for a fresh look or a new space. Experience the cozy difference with furniture that grows with you, delivered to your door quickly and for free. Assembly is a breeze, setting you up for years of comfort and style.

Don't break the bank. Cozy's Direct2 model ensures that quality and value go hand in hand. Transform your living space today with Cozy. Visit cozy.ca, that's C-O-Z-E-Y, and start customizing your furniture.