WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1039 - Tom Dreesen

Episode Date: July 25, 2019

Now that Tom Dreesen has 50 years in show business under his belt, he wants to enjoy life. He’s earned it because he’s already experienced enough for five lifetimes. Tom takes Marc all the way back to when he was a kid in suburban Illinois, holding on to a life-changing secret. After wandering aimlessly through jobs in construction, private investigation and the military, he started doing comedy with his partner Tim Reid. Tom talks about going to LA where he became a regular at The Comedy Store, helped the comics organize and eventually was the face of the famous comics strike. He also remarks on his long friendships with David Letterman and Frank Sinatra. This episode is sponsored by Starbucks Tripleshot Energy and Good Boys from Universal Pictures. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck, Knicks? What's happening? I am Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome to it. How's it going?

Is it fucking hot? I'm not even in my house right now. I had to leave my house because apparently whatever was overloading the power grid where I live just blew it out. No power. No power at the the house no power in the neighborhood 99 degrees outside and i can just see the future of our country i just no there's just that moment where you're like when how is this gonna hold up i don't know anything about power grids do you i have no idea how they work i do know that things get overloaded and people want to be comfortable like myself. I've got the air conditioner on. Is it my fault? I turn my air conditioner off and it still didn't come on for hours. And then there's the whole process of like, how do I eat everything

in my refrigerator before it goes bad? That's actually sadly the upside of a blackout is really assessing what's in the fridge, what can go bad relatively quickly, and how to kind of pace your day with the eating of what's in the fridge. And then not to mention the freezer. I mean, that shit's going to go. So it's been an exciting day of consumption out of necessity, out of fear of throwing things away. I don't like to throw things away how's it

going are you are you okay today i have a veteran comic like old school tom dreesen is on now tom dreesen fits into the narrative tom dreesen was part of the original comedy store crew very good friends with david letterman i think when david letterman was on my show he was leaving my house to have dinner with tom dreesen dreesen is here here's the thing about summer is that you know that time that time in between you know picking out the watermelon at the place where you get watermelon and then actually getting it home and however however much time you leave the watermelon the time between picking it buying it and then cutting it that's that's that's an uneasy time isn't it i know there's bigger problems in the country obviously the world is on fire our president's a criminal and it seems like a lot of people, particularly in this country, are fucking brainwashed beyond redemption one way or the other, either with just basic fascistic thoughts or those of the religious ilk.

Sometimes combined. That's quite a double whammy. But for me, you buy that watermelon and you just don't know, do you? You know, you can, do you know how to pick it? Have you read the instructions? You knock on it. You know, if the yellow spot's yellow, if it's more round than long, it's a female, supposedly juicier.

These are all things I learned in retrospect. I pretend to know that I know how to pick a watermelon, but I do it by gut, by instinct, by just sort of vibe. You know what I mean? Like this a watermelon, but I do it by gut, by instinct, by just sort of vibe. You know what I mean? Like this one has a good feeling to it. I try to look at the yellow spot. If it's yellow, it's been sitting there, it's been ripening on the vine, fine.

But you still don't fucking know. And then you get home, and when you do cut it, if it's disappointing, then you have a lot of mediocre watermelon to eat that you that's a commitment you're in you're in you've got at least three or four days of of eating watermelon going it could be better could be a little sweeter it's got that weird dryness it's a little mealy and every once in a while you nail it you get a good melon and it's the best fucking thing but if

you get a bad melon then you got to go back and you got to think like why what how i bet you that person who was right across from me picking melons got the good melon why didn't i get the good melon where's the justice why can't i have the luck the luck of the melon just just once or twice right because you're in you know you're gonna throw the whole melon away it's hard to throw a whole melon away. I've done it, but it doesn't feel right. And then I got some input from people. They were like, Hey man, just buy the pieces by the pre-cut. Yeah. But then are you really living life? Are you really living life? If you get pre-cut watermelon, are you? So now I'm sweating because I'm at the, uh, I'm at my office. I have an office that's sort of a processing a processing place for stuff that's sent to me by you guys by publishers by labels by this and that and it's just sort of like it's it's a storage unit with a table in it and internet connection

but I you know I'm glad to be here now I'm going to shift a little bit I'm going to shift a little bit i'm going to shift a little here because you know i got an email and i you know and i have concerns and uh you know i'm alive and awake and trying to process information in this horrible heat things are scary and you know particularly how people are being treated and on a day-to-day basis how people are treating each other on a day-to-day basis there's a shamelessness to being an asshole to being uh immoral to being racist to being sexist there's a sort of sense of entitlement that finally a certain type of anger and insecurity and hostility has now been unleashed and that uh there's no shame in it. It's righteous to be a fucking asshole or to be hurtful. And it all comes down from the top. And I don't need to really go into that any more than I usually do.

But, you know, there is a concern when you start talking about how immigrants are being treated at the border, how in the Republican defense of that or or any or an asshole's defense, when you talk about, you know, children being held in detention centers and they're like, well, they shouldn't be coming here. Their parents shouldn't bring them here. Yeah, but that that really skips a step, doesn't it? And it implies something much darker in the long run. It implies an accepted dehumanization, It implies an accepted dehumanization, an accepted dismissal of their humanity. Once you start to accept that complete dehumanization and stop seeing people as people, that's sort of the kind of tide pool. That's the growing, that's the petri dish of ethnic cleansing, of a type of nationalism that enables people to not see another type of

person's humanity and just not mind if they're annihilated. You know, I would hope that we're a little bit far away from that, but this is where it starts. Intolerance, righteous racism, intolerance, righteous racism, indignation, immoral behavior, taking information about real people and seeing them as garbage. So like, I don't want to get too heavy, but I'm going to get a little heavy and I'm going to read this email and this one's powerful and it takes a minute, but I think it's sort of important to put out in the world. Subject line, recent history repeating itself and the guilty. Mark, I recently went back into my saved episodes of your show and heard the episode when it was revealed that the United States government was separating children from their families and holding them in deplorable conditions. I was listening to this around the

4th of July and felt compelled to write you because of the heartache and compassion in your voice when you were talking about the children and their situation. But then I didn't out of shame. Then today on MSNBC, I saw an interview with a young Guatemalan man, 17 years old, who was describing the 11 days of hell he went through in one of these camps for children. went through in one of these camps for children. It fucking kills me to see and think about these children because the fact of the matter is that the United States government torturing children is nothing new. I myself oversaw the torturous imprisonment of two children when I was a U.S. Army soldier deployed to Iraq in 2006 and 2007. These two children who had to have been around 12 years old had done nothing wrong. They had the bad luck to have had a father who may have been fighting against the Americans.

I saw these children subjected day after day to cold temperatures without proper clothing, shitty food, lights never turned off, aggressive handling and interrogation procedures, all while being held in solitary confinement. Children and my friends slash colleagues and I did everything we were told to do because if we didn't, we would just be switched out with people who would and possibly have our careers put in jeopardy. So we did it. We ruined those poor kids lives to save our own skin. I told myself that the next guy might not be as compassionate. I wrote and didn't send letters to the New York Times to blow the story open. I told myself that kids are

resilient and that they would bounce back, but those are all just excuses. I didn't have the moral courage to do the right thing, and now my self-loathing and shame is near paralyzing every fucking day I turn on the television. Every one of the border patrol guards who is working in those children's camps is either a monster or they are going to be as fucked for life as I am now when the gravity of what they've done hits their psyches. Not a day goes by that I don't think about this on my own. Not a day goes by that the news doesn't bring this up. I'm permanently uncomfortable around kids. My first marriage ended in part because of my post-war struggles. My new wife is a saint and the best part of my life.

She wants a child someday. I don't know how I can do it. I don't know that I deserve it. If I ever stop and think about it, I feel like I sacrificed an essential part of my humanity in Iraq. What is going to happen now with hundreds more guards and hundreds, if not thousands, of migrant children in this country? I don't know if our society is ready for the permanent psychological, spiritual, and moral damage we are doing to ourselves.

I am sorry for dumping this all on you, but something in your words and the consistency of your words made me think you would be appreciative of the story and its implications. If you read this and feel compelled to share it on the podcast, I'm good with that. Maybe someone will hear it and not repeat the same mistakes I have. That sentence, right? I don't know if our society is ready for the permanent psychological, spiritual, and moral damage we are doing to ourselves. Well, I would say a bit over half of us are not ready. And then there's the other ones who just can't get enough of it, that think it's a fine step to be taking. You know, this guy

trusted me with this information in the sense that he thought this is where he chose to communicate his feelings. And I owed it to him and to you and to myself to honor what it seems like to be a request to put this information and this experience out there. It's devastating, but it's happening. And I think that kind of personal point of view around this particular horror is important to hear. I wanted to draw your attention also to another thing uh paul krasner the great paul krasner one of the great satirists of the 20th century publisher of the realist friend of lenny bruce sort of an heir to the

the sort of mission of lenny bruce died on sunday and we reposted our 2011 interview with him. It's available in the free feed wherever you're subscribed to WTF. Oh my God, I'm sweating here. It's like a sauna. Now, before I talk to Tom Dreesen and share that interview with you, I just want to put this into context. Those of you who have been listening a long time can see I've been slowly putting together somewhat of an oral history of the comedy store in the 70s mostly around the famous strike that took place and the suicide of Steve Lubitkin and you know the people that were involved there and who were there at the beginning now Tom Dreesen who I'm going to talk to about this, was really the guy that found himself sort of in charge of representing the strikers, the comics that picketed. He had had a little history with that

himself, coming from Chicago, I believe. So this is that story. This is another firsthand sort of experience at the comedy store in the early 70s. And also, you know, Tom has gone on. He went on to open for Frank Sinatra for years. He's had a sort of a very interesting career, and he's still out there doing motivational talks. And it's exciting to talk to him. I've sort of been putting it off.

I knew he was out there. I don't know why I didn't do it sooner. But this is me talking to Tom Dreesen. He's out on tour with his one-man show called An Evening of Laughter and Stories of Sinatra. You can go to TomDreesen.com for dates and location. But this is him at my house talking. Are you self-employed? Don't think you need business insurance?

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Zensurance. mind your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun. A new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. So 50 years in show business. This is my 50th year in show business. And I kind of, you know, I'm at that age where I just want to, I want to work when I want to work. Right.

And enjoy my life. Can you? Oh, yeah. Yeah. You know, I give motivation speeches for corporate America and I do it at universities, but I also do it for stand up comedians for stand up comedians. I call it the joy of stand up comedy and how to get there, you know, to enjoy this journey that we're on as comedians, the greatest profession on the planet, bar none for a multitude of reasons. multitude of reasons you know and and and so that's i i want to practice what i preach i really enjoy life you know i i i worked hard the first half of my life uh i feel like god said i'm gonna put a load on you yeah but if you survive the second half is on me yeah the second half has been on him because i i just you know i've got had a great career and and i i i love stand-up

comedy well here's the thing like you know like i mean i hear what you're, I've had a great career, and I love stand-up comedy. Well, here's the thing. Like, you know, like, I mean, I hear what you're saying, and I'm a guy who's been doing stand-up now, you know, more than, you know, probably more than half my life. And, yeah, it's a great profession, but, you know, you know and I know that it takes its toll. I mean, like, at the beginning, like, so you're from Chicago. Yeah. Yeah. South side of Chicago, a suburb called Harvey, Illinois. Well, what is, what at the beginning, like, so you, you, where are you? You're from Chicago. Yeah. Yeah. South side of Chicago, a suburb called Harvey, Illinois. Well, what is, what is, what's the name reason?

I'm Irish Italian. Yeah. My biological father is Italian. His name was Polizzi, P-O-L-I-Z-Z-I. Uh-huh. You know, it's. But you didn't grow up with him? No, it's like a story.

It's like a soap opera if I told you the story. I put it in a book with Tim Reed and I wrote a book called Tim and and tom an american comedy black and white and i put that in the book and i'm writing a book now that will explain it even further but what is the story well basically my mom had an affair with her brother-in-law and and it was her sister's husband and no one knew about it no one knew about it right but as i was growing up you know i didn't look like my brothers and sisters i looked like my cousin yeah and at one point i confronted the man frank palizzi yeah let me digress a little bit he had a tavern yeah uh called palizzi's tavern it was called the cedar lodge but everybody called it palizzi's tavern in chicago in harvey element

and harvey my mom was a bartender right. And I would shine shoes in all the neighborhood bars. There was 36 taverns in Harvey when I grew up. There were steel mills, factories. It was a blue-collar town. You were the shine kid. I was a shine kid, yeah. I sold newspapers on the corner. I shined shoes in taverns.

I set pins in bowling alleys. I caddied in the summertime, all to help feed my brothers and sisters. How many? Eight brothers and sisters. And you're the oldest? No, I'm third. When I was shining shoes in all the bars, I would go to Polizzi's Tavern last because my mother was a bartender, and I'd stay there and wait for the shifts

to change in the factory and then go back out again. While there, I would watch Frank Polizzi behind the bar, tell jokes, tell stories, and have the audience have his bar room just cracking up. He could do dialects. tell stories, and have the audience have this bar room just cracking up. He could do dialects. And I was fascinated that this guy with his vocabulary and his vernacular and his inflection and timing could cause this sound to come out of people's bodies. But this is your aunt's husband?

It was my, yes. It was my mom's sister's husband. But with his timing and his delivery, he could fill the air with this electricity of laughter right and unite everybody i just i just found it fascinating and i began to tell jokes on the catholic school many that shouldn't be told on the catholic school playground listening to him i would tell his jokes you know so i emulated him as a little boy and i and i was really fond of him a great deal fond of him. He was a tough Sicilian.

Took no guff from nobody, including the mafia. Dangerous guy? Dangerous in this respect. The mafia put a jukebox in his bar window. He took it outside and dumped it on the sidewalk. It's in a book. But did he get beat up? No, because when they came to him, the guy's name was Tuffinelli. Babe Tuffinelli came and confronted him.

I was in the bar. I had my little shoeshine box. I was in a bar. And he stood up to him and told him, I bought my own jukebox. And in those days, all the vending machines, anything, cigarette machines, anything that were in bars were put in there by the syndicate. Yeah. And he didn't pay the price. He didn't have to he

respected him he stood right up to him yeah in fact so much so that babe tough and ollie he said you destroyed my jukebox he said i told your goons to get it out of here he said and they wouldn't get out of there so he took it out on a two-wheeler and dumped it on the sidewalk my mother and my aunt dropped to their knees with the rosary at that time because they knew this was serious yeah but when they came in to confront him, you know, I was in there. And he said, I worked in a factory for years to buy this place and to buy the jukebox. He had a jukebox in the corner, an old Wurlitzer jukebox that cost like 100 bucks. And he said, and that's my jukebox.

And he said, the mob guy said to him, I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to let you go. But if you ever leave this business, I want you to come and work for me. He said, I'd never work for the likes of you because he hated mob. He hated mafia. And what family was that? Like what mafia? Who was the guy in charge of Harvard?

Dave Caffinelli. He was in charge of that. He was the don of that area. Yeah. And further south was a guy named Laporte. Frank Laporte was Chicago Heights. But, you know, you grew up around all that, you know, except that I had such tremendous respect for this guy

because he would throw teamsters out of his bar two at a time if you swore in the bar, if you, you know, were using foul language. And what kind of, so this town of Harvey, it was like a working class town, like mostly like, you know. No doubt about it. Steel most factories, Wyman Gordon, Perfection Gear, Alice Chalmer, the Whiting Corporation, they were all steel, factories. Wyman Gordon, Perfection Gear, Alice Chalmer, the Whiting Corporation. They were all steel mills and factories.

So who was your dad? Walter Dreesen. Walter Dreesen, but this guy- Was my biological father. And you found that out how? Because when I was growing up and I came to the age where I found out where babies came from, I realized I didn't want to think my mom and dad did this, let alone my mom and my uncle. So I confronted him one day.

I came to him one day. To Frank? Is that his name? Frank. I really, really loved him. He was my favorite uncle. Yeah. But I took a long walk with him and I said, I want to talk to you.

And I was 14 going on 15. Yeah. And I said that I, he said, what is it you want to talk about? I said, I think that you're my dad. He said, what makes you think? I said, my father. He said, what makes you think that? I told him, I said, because I don't look like my brothers and sisters, but I look just like your two sons.

People always would call me wherever I go. People would say, hey, Polizzi, where are you going? Hey, Polizzi. I'd say, my name isn't Polizzi. My name is Dreesen. We walked for a little while. He said, well, it's the truth. And he said, now, you can go, and you could tell the world, and it would ruin your mom and dad's marriage. He said, and it would ruin mine, too.

But that's all totally up to you, because it is the truth. And I said, I don't want to ruin anybody's marriage. I just knew, though. I just knew, you know, in my heart. And your dad didn't know? No, and neither did my aunt, and neither did anybody in the family but him and me. And you kept that secret. I kept that for a long time.

It was very difficult on me at that time. I all of a sudden did not want to be around him. I avoided him. As much as I loved him, I avoided him after that. Because he thought he did something bad? No, I just felt uncomfortable with the whole thing, the whole sex thing. Now, you've got to carry the secret, too. Yes, and I did for years.

But when I went into service, I went into service the day I turned 17. And when I came home on leave from boot camp. Which branch? I was in the Navy. I served in the Marine Corps unit for nine months called NEGDF, Naval Emergency Ground Defense Force. Where were you? I was stationed at Quonset Point at that time. I went to boot camp at Great Lakes, and then out of boot camp went to Newport, Rhode Island

on assignment, and then I went from there to Quonset Point into a squadron called Nat 2 Naval Air Torpedo Unit. What was going on at the time? No, it was just pre-Vietnam. Oh, okay. You know, that's what they trained us for at that time. Right. They were sending boats up rivers, and if the boat got shot out from underneath, the

naval personnel had no ground training. So they wanted to give the naval personnel ground training. So they sent one guy from each squadron to the Marine Corps. Yeah. And that's where I went, and I trained with the Marine Corps. Anyhow, but I spent four years in the Navy. When I came home on leave from boot camp, I got together with them again, and we remained real close. Frank. All of our lives. Yeah, Yeah, Frank. And in the end, no one knew. What changed?

Well, I was a man then. I was becoming a man and I didn't really care who planted the seed. It made no difference to me at that point who planted the seed. The other thing too was I didn't have a real close relationship with my father, my dad dad Walter Dreesen uh nor did my brothers and sisters he was alcoholic and uh and nice guy Irish guy or no Dutch German Dutch German your mom's Irish my mom is full-blooded Irish yeah and my biological father's full-blooded Italian you know which makes you a mean drunk is all it makes you being Irish and Italian you know were you a boozer no you know I was. You were? Oh, I drank beer. I mean, I could drink beer.

I only drank beer. My father was an alcoholic, Walter Dreesen, and all he did was drink beer. And I did in the Navy. I mean, we hit port. I was gone. Right. And even after I came out of the service,

I still work all week long, but I'd hit those bars. And I loved beer. I could drink beer day and night. But one day, sitting in a bar, after the comedy team split up, work all week long, but I'd hit those bars. And I love beer. I could drink beer day and night. But one day sitting in a bar after the comedy team split up, I was with Tim Reed for six years. I'm sitting in a bar at two o'clock in the morning. The team split up. I didn't want it to split up. It was like a broken marriage to me. I thought Tim and Tom could be the greatest comedy team show business I'd ever known. That was my goal. And anyhow, when Tim decided he wanted to

be more of an actor, and that's another long story, but I'm sitting in this bar at two o'clock in the morning where I used to check ID cards. I used to be like a bouncer. When you were a kid? No, when I came out of the service. I checked ID cards. And because, you know, it was a rowdy bar. Right. Anyhow, so I'm sitting there with my buddy. It's 2 o'clock in the morning, and I'm sitting there trying to think of what I'm going to do

that the comedy team split up. I could find another black guy. Tim was an African-American. We were America's first black and white comedy team. History shows we were the last. We wrote a book that's now becoming a movie about our life, what it was like touring America from 1969 to 1975. And there were no comedy clubs in those days.

We toured the nation and worked all black clubs in the north and the south. The Chitlin Circuit, black-owned, black-operated nightclubs. And we worked the Playboy Circuit and all that stuff. And nightclubs. But now the team splits up. And I'm sitting there in a bar at 2 o'clock with two beers in front of me and two shot glasses, meaning I had two other beers coming in front of me. Anyhow, I'm sitting there and I'm thinking, what am I going to do? And I was always good at alternatives.

I said, I can either find another black guy and do the same act or I can go it alone, become a stand-up alone. I had never been on stage by myself before. Or I could quit and get a job in a factory like my wife wanted me to do and end this dream that I had of being a comedian. It would have pleased her to no end. And I'm sitting at the bar and I'm thinking, I could go it alone. I could be a stand-up alone. I think I could do that. That's what I want to do.

And I started thinking, well, then what were your goals? To get to The Tonight Show, to get to Johnny Carson, because in those days, one appearance on The Tonight Show, your whole life changed. One appearance, Freddie Prinze got a sitcom the next day. And so I'm sitting in a bar and I said, that's what I'll do. I'll go it alone. And I remember the book I read by Clement Stone called Positive Mental Attitude, PMA. And in it, he said, if you know what you want to do and it's a noble endeavor, then search your life and see if there's anything in your life that can deter you from that noble achievement and get it out of your life. And I thought, what could stop me if I wanted to make it as a stand-up comedian?

And I looked at this booze, and I said, booze, drinking, because I love to drink. And I pushed the two beers across the bar, and my buddy Jimmy Lepore was his name. Jimmy came up to me and he said, you quit, Tommy? I said, I'm through. He said, you quit for the night? I said, no, I quit. He said, for the night? I said, I'm through. He said, you quit for the night? I said, no, I quit. He said, for the night? I said, I quit forever.

He said, yeah, right. And I never touched a drop for like seven years after that till I was on the Tonight Show doing all the talk shows in my career. I was touring with Sammy Davis Jr. all around the country. And I went out one night and had a couple of beers and it just wasn't the same, you know. Oh, yeah. So you didn't start again.

I did again when I was touring with Frank Sinatra. Iatra i mean you know he stayed out till dawn every night so so then i'd have a few beers and he used to say to me have a real drink what are you drinking that you know that beer stuff but i i never became now i haven't had a drink maybe in four or five years i could sit down have a beer with you right now but it wouldn't mean anything well it didn't sound it doesn't sound like you you know you I guess you were fortunate in that your father was not your biological father because you didn't have the genetic predisposition. Well, Frank Polizzi drank a lot too. That whole family, the Irish and the Italian, they drank a lot too. So what did Driesen do? What did the old man do? Where did he work?

Well, when I was growing up, he worked in steel mills as what they call a time study man, a methods engineer. And then one day, the alcohol just never worked again. Oh, really? Yeah, he just kept drinking. It beat him. Yeah, he was a sweet old guy. But he never took me to a baseball game. He never threw a ball at me.

We never went fishing, those kind of things that fathers' sons do. But I didn't feel bad about that because he didn't do that with the other brothers and sisters either so you guys all had to kind of bring up yourself maybe your mom was yeah my mom was mom was real good for a long time and then at one time she threw the towel in and drank with him for years and then then it really got you know it really got bad but then you know in the end she quit drinking and um yeah and look did your siblings take care of each other i mean were you close with the gang? Whenever you have parents who are alcoholics, the siblings really bond. And you're the middle kid.

Third, yeah. They bond. And to this day, we're very, very close. Are they all still around? Yeah, they're still. My sister Darlene passed away from multiple sclerosis and complications thereof. And every year I would run a marathon for her called the 26 Miles for Darlene. And people would pledge money for every mile I run.

And I would bring in celebrities into Chicago, 25 celebrities that run a block with me, two blocks. Smokey Robinson's the only one who ran all 26 miles with me. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. So, okay, so you're in this situation and you're shining shoes, you're doing all these odd jobs, you go in the service, you come back. So Chicago at that time, what are we talking, the 60s? Yeah.

And what makes you decide to get into show business? I was never, ever dreamed, never thought, it was the furthest thing from my mind. Right. I wandered aimlessly after I came out of the service. I worked construction, I wheeled concrete. I poured sidewalks. Were you a union guy? In construction, I wasn't. But when I went to work at a trucking firm called Jones Motor.

And Jones Motor was a trucking firm, and they're all teamsters. And it was mandatory. If you survived the first 30 days, you had to become a teamster. You had to join the union. You survived. Yeah, the first 30 days on a loading dock with all these tough Irish, Italian, Polish guys from Cicero, Illinois. And after about six months of loading trucks and being a teamster, the company came to me and said they wanted me to be in management.

They wanted me to drop my teamster card and become management, become a foreman. After you'd become a teamster? Yeah. Is there a test you have to take? No. Is there a test you have to take? No. Yeah, a test you have to take. You just have to put up with all the BS that goes with it. No test, huh?

No test. Just do a lot of hard work. Right. So I became a foreman, a doc foreman at Jones Motor, and now the 48 guys that I used to work with as teamsters, I was now their foreman. But you're not in management then, though, are you? I was in management, yeah.

I became management for Jones Motor Company. Yeah. But it's interesting because now half the guys, 24 of the guys said, hey, Tommy, that's great. You're a nice kid. And they were all tough old guys. And that's great that you're foreman and wish you the best. And the other 24 said, you no good low life scumbag.

I'll never work for you. am you know you i'll never work for you and so why because you were the other side yeah because i was on the other side now and the teamsters you know they were in those days you're all mobbed up yeah you know um so you saw the mob guys around oh they were you know they were called bas business you know associates they would come if you if like one time a guy turned me in, a guy, he would come to work every week with a novel. He'd finish the novel by the end of the week, you know, into the bathroom. I used to have to chase him out of the job all the time to get him to work. He once called a hall and told them that I was harassing them, him.

So they come, what they do, they wait till all the men are waiting outside the factory on their lunch break. The mob guys? Mob guys. And they would slam on, come in a big black Buick and slam on the brakes and a car would turn sideways and they'd open up all the doors and all four would get out and they'd say,

you know, where's this punk Dreesen? Where's this punk at? He's in the dock shack and they'd come up and they'd try to give me, you know, but I'm a street guy.

I don't have a degree from academia, but I got a doctorate from the streets. I grew up on the streets. Right. So I knew what the game was and they're arguing back and forth. And you're harassing our guy. I said, you're talking about that 248 guy, 48-pound guy.

I'm harassing him. I weigh 145 pounds. I'd be embarrassed if I was him saying I'm harassing him. Anyhow, they'd raise hell and all that. Then they'd go up to the terminal manager, and he'd give them an envelope loaded with cash. Yeah. And say, gentlemen, thanks for stopping by. Make sure you have lunch on us or dinner on us.

And they'd go outside, and they'd tell all the guys, well, we told that punk off. We straightened him out. Yeah, right. And I wasn't always fond of being a boss. In the military, you know, when you get ranked, you had people working under you. What was your rank?

I was a third-class petty officer. But my point is I never liked being harassed and yelled at and screamed at like in boot camp and all the other things, and I never was fond of doing that to anybody else. thing stand-up comedy offered me on my own boss we write it we produce it we direct it and we do it i mean you might be shitty club owners you might get you know you might get shorted or stiffed or whatever but you're still making your own choices all the time yeah and the freedom of being a stand-up comedian oh it's just it's just but what got me in the show business was i did all these odd jobs, wandering aimlessly.

Right. I was a photographer. I was a private detective. You were a private detective? Yeah, for Palooza Detective Agency. Frank Palooza's son, Don, had been a police officer for years. My cousin, but actually my half-brother. And he opened up a detective agency after he left the police department, and I was a private detective.

He hired street kids. He was very smart. And instead of hiring former police department, and I was a private detective. He hired street kids. He was very smart. And instead of hiring former police officers, and he did that too, and current police officers because they're looking for side money, but he would also hire street kids because we could get information from pool rooms and places like that that were, you know, and we got information illegally. So you were a kid still? I was in my 20s. So, like, what kind of cases did you...

Most of it really was domestic that you hated. Husband and wife tailing. Mostly domestic cases. But we handled a murder kidnap case at one time. A doctor whose daughter was murdered and was kidnapped and found out later was murdered. And we were getting better information than the police department because we were going

to the sources. Did you solve it? No. They later on never did solve it because they pulled us off of it the police department got very angry and told the the doctor to pull us off the case because we were i had i had some guys that were with me that we would go if we there was a bartender in gary indiana disposed he had some information that we needed. And one of my buddies, you know, you know, pulled them over the bar. They did some things that you shouldn't do. Yeah. But, but we got information, you know, um, but anyhow, amidst all of this, I'm, I'm doing all these odd jobs. And I joined a civic group called the JC's junior chamber of commerce was called in those days. It's young men of action, 18 to 36. And they taught you leadership training. You learn, learn how to serve on a committee, how to chair a committee, Robert's Rules of Order, how to conduct meetings, and how to speak in front of an audience.

It was business-oriented, basically? Well, it's leadership training for young men in the community. Today, they have young men and women, but it's not as prevalent as it used to be, the JCs. But it was a real strong civic organization that my brother got me into, and I really got involved into it. Yeah. And while I was there, they handled the problems of the community. If there was any problems in the community, the JCs went out and they handled the problem

and made the community more aware of what the problem was and tried to solve the problem. And in doing so, you got this leadership training. Sort of like, almost like community organizers? Exactly. But what happened was one of the biggest problems in those days was drugs as it is today, our youth and drugs. So I wrote a drug education program teaching grade school children the ills of drug abuse with humor. What was the big drug then? Heroin? Well, you know, obviously marijuana was a big thing.

Surprisingly enough, a lot of things like Quaaludes and pills. Was it the late 60s? Late 60s, yeah. And you were out of the service. You got out before Vietnam. Oh, yeah. I got out. In fact, I tried to go back in. I was going to go back in the Marine Corps, but I didn't want to go through the boot camp

because I had been trained by the Marines for nine months. And the Marine Corps recruiter talked me out of it. He said, Tommy, you don't really want to go. First, he found out. He said, you'd have to go to Pendleton. You'd have to go through boot camp. And I didn't want to do that again. He said, Tommy, you don't want to do that.

I had a wife and two kids. This was after the war started. You were going to go? Yeah, I was going to go back. Because you felt like it was your duty. Well, yeah, yeah. And I was wandering aimlessly. I didn't know what it was I wanted to do in life.

And I had a lot of buddies over there. Literally. I really did, yeah. There's 20 guys on the Vietnam Wall from my high school. Oh, my God. 20 from Harvey, Illinois, yeah. And I knew those kids. And I had buddies on that wall, too, that stayed in the service after I got out.

Do you have any sort of, like, survivor's guilt? No. But I oftentimes wonder how I would have reacted to all of that in combat. You know, you're trained for combat. And even out at sea, you're constantly trained for combat. We were launching aircraft and we had plane crashes. Even though it's peacetime at the time, you're training for combat. You're training for war. So you witnessed as a young kid people killed yeah you know plane crashes explosions all that kind of stuff so the only thing i i oftentimes would wonder how i might

have reacted when the shit hit the fan oh yeah you know and because you can talk all the bs you want to talk about but nobody nobody knows until that incident happens. But going back to how I got in the show business. The JCs, yeah. I wrote this drug education program to teach grade school children the ills of drug abuse with humor, a concept I had. When I was proposing to the JCs at the general membership, what I wanted to do, I did it at a general meeting. After the meeting was over with, a young black man came up to me with his sponsor, this young black man named Tim Reed. And he said, I want to help you with

that project. I'm a new JC. Tonight's my first night. I said, geez, thank you. But I already have a guy named John DeBoer was my buddy. Now, let me digress a little bit more. At that time, I was literally praying to God saying, what is it I'm supposed to be doing? This can't be what I'm supposed to be doing. I'd be in bars late at night with my buddies and I was married to it. And I'm thinking, God, every job I did never fulfilled me. I never felt fulfilled. When did you get married?

I got married right when I first came out of the service. You know, I had a wife and three kids a day. I went in the show business. But my point was, that that i kept praying saying god there must be something i'm supposed to be doing right now this drug education program when i when i tell tim reed i said yeah i'm sorry but i got a guy the next day this guy john deboer calls me and says i can't do it tom and i said oh he said i got a new job yeah i said oh gee what was that black guy's name yeah now john deboer was a white guy i suppose that black guy's name? Now, John DeBoer was a white guy. I said, what was that black guy? Oh, yeah, Tim Reed. I get together with Tim.

We work on the project. We go into schools. The program became number one in 50 states and in 22 foreign countries. Wherever JC's were, it became a model program on how to teach drug education at a grade school level. What was the angle? At an elementary school level. What made it so successful? We got the kids laughing.

We went in the classroom. Now, the moment I walked in that classroom with Tim Reed, I went, oh, my God, what a divine intervention this is. Because the students were black and white. Yeah. And two white guys would have went in there. That's one thing. But a black guy and a white guy, we got their attention immediately. Yeah.

And we played off of one another. We played records for the kids, you know, and we'd play records and get them, you know, Oh, the Games People play now every night and every day now by joe south yeah record called games people play and we'd say to the kids how many here have heard that record nate raise your hand i said that's what we came today to talk about some games people are playing here in harvey and tim and i would joke off of one another the program became very successful through the publications of the jcs one day an eighth grade girl after about eight months an eighth grade girl, after about eight months,

an eighth grade girl was leaving the classroom because we only taught eighth graders. She was leaving the classroom. She looked at Tim and I and she said, you guys are funny. You ought to become a comedy team. And she walked away. An eighth grade girl, her name was Vicky Serofka.

When we wrote our book, she actually came to one of our book signings. You remember her name. Oh yeah, because I knew her uncle when she told me her name was Serofka. I said, oh, it's Benny and he relates. Oh, it's my uncle. So I remember her name. Oh, yeah, because I knew her uncle when she told me her name. I said, oh, it's Benny. Oh, it's my uncle. Yeah.

So I remember. Anyhow, a couple of days later, Tim and I were sitting around working on our next program. Yeah. And he told me a joke and I told him a joke. And he said, you thinking about what that little girl said? And I said, yeah. He said, would you do that? I said, I'd do that, but I don't know what to do with you.

I don't know what to do. We started writing what we thought was material. Uh-huh. This is back in 1969. And culturally, that's a pretty dicey time. Oh, you have no idea. You never saw a black guy and a white guy walking down the street. And then in 68, you had the protests in Chicago. Oh, yeah, in Chicago.

The riots in Chicago and all that. And you never saw a black and a white guy walking down the street? You You never saw a black and a white guy walking down the street? You didn't see a black and a white guy walking down the street together, let alone on a stage together. It was a difficult time. The Vietnam War was raging. Students were protesting all over America. African Americans were rioting in every major city, including Harvey, Illinois. One of the largest riots in the country was in my neighborhood in Harvey.

And amidst all of this, we were going across the land trying to make people laugh. Okay, so he says, you're thinking about what that kid said, and you said, I don't know what to do, so what did you do? We started writing what we thought was material. We sat down each night writing. Now, my wife at that time did not want me, I'm divorced now, but she did not want me in show business at all. She thought it was the dumbest idea that I ever could possibly come up with.

You got three kids. I got three kids, get a real job, and I don't blame her by the way. Her father worked in a factory 38 years, never missed a day, never missed a day of work. Brought a check home every Friday. That's how she was raised. And this precarious business, a show business. And she was right. I mean, we made no money. We struggled. Tim was working for EI DuPont as a marketing rep, and he was trying to do both at the same time but i'm happy though he was unhappy too well he wasn't unhappy but i think it was this is i'm speaking for him it it didn't fulfill him either like it did right right his wife every night was very supportive every night we'd be at his house trying to write material

and finally we'd keep running in the other room as you know how comedians are do you think this is funny do you think that's funny? With the wife. With the wife. One day she said, Tommy, she's a sweet, dear friend of mine to this day. She said, Tommy, you can't come here anymore. I said, why? She said, you have to go do this someplace.

You're driving me crazy with this. Every five minutes is this funny. We went. There were no comedy clubs in those days. We found a little jazz club. Which one? It was called the Party Mart Supper Club on the south side of Chicago.

And we said to the guy, could we get up after the band? He said, you're a comedy team? Yeah. I said, well, that's interesting. Yeah. We went up that night, terrified. Yeah.

As you know, no dressing rooms. Right. And we were in the kitchen, slopping food around. Both of us thought we were going to gag. And now the guy said, comes in,

how do you want me to introduce you? You know, so Dreesen and Reed, he said, Dresen and Rude, they were funny, we said,

just say Tim and Tom because it was Tim Reed and Tom Dreesen. He went out and introduced us. We got up on the stage and we went 100 miles an hour. All we wanted to do

was remember our material. Hi, we're the comedy team of Tim and Tom. He's Tim and I'm Tom. And we just kept going 100 miles an hour and finally some guy in the back said slow down and i said oh sir please don't heckle us this is our first time now now we rush off the stage and we get the owner in the corner i told you to slow down we get we get we get in the owner in the

corner we said how do we do i do what do you think you think? He said, I don't know how you did. You never gave me a chance to laugh. Come back tomorrow and start all over and slow down. We went back the next night and we had some laughs. Now, what was the angle of the bits? Because you're black and white, so you have that gimmick. So there's no standard sort of set, you're a straight man. And was there a straight man? No, that was the thing about our act. He would be straight sometimes and i'd be straight right we

did we did comedy routines we did we did monologues you know we started writing what we thought was funny stuff and and we we had a routine where he taught me how to be black uh-huh the irony of that is is i grew up in a black neighborhood i had eight like i say we had eight kids lived in a shack so i grew up around black people i played basketball on all black basketball team i played football on all black football team i was very I was very athletic as a kid, even though I was light in the rear end. So I grew up around the brothers. And to this day, my nickname was white boy. I did an album in front of an all black audience called that white boy is crazy. I'm the only white comedian ever to do an album in front of an all black audience.

You did? What year was that? I'm the only white comedian ever to do an album in front of an all-black audience. You did? Yeah. What year was that? In 1980, I think it was 81 or 82. It was called That White Boy's Crazy. And Richard Pryor tried to get me to, he said, Tommy, you should call it That Honky's Crazy. Because you know he had an album.

Yeah, that N-word's crazy. Yeah, yeah. And he said, Tommy, you should call it That Honky's Crazy. I said, you know what, Richard? No brother ever called me a honky in my whole life. They always call me white boy. If I go back right now to the neighborhood and they're sitting around talking, one of them would say, no, I scored two touchdowns in that game.

Oh, you didn't. I did. That white boy would say, hey, white boy, come here. Tell him. And so I used to joke, I was 12 years old when I found out my name wasn't white boy. So Tim, we do a routine where he taught me how to be black. And then we did another routine where I introduced him to my Italian father. And then, uh, but so, but a lot of routines we did were not about race at all. What it was about was here was two guys who really liked one another, were friends with one another.

And, and it just so happened one of them was black and one of them was white. What I got out of the six years that we were with and to my dying day, I will always treasure this more than anything that I've ever accomplished in show business or Tim. Yeah. Is that I can't tell you the times, Mark, where after we would do a show where a black guy would come up to us or a white guy. And the black guy would say, you know, I got a white friend and I'd like to reach out to him but if i do the brothers are gonna wear me out man yeah but after watching you and tim today i'm gonna reach out for my friend and a white guy would say the same thing you know i got a black friend and i really like the guy but you know white guys are gonna give me hell if i if i you know pal with him and stuff he said but after

watching you and tim you know i'm gonna reach out that happened to us more than you'll ever know and you were at black clubs and white clubs he said he did after watching you and Tim, you know, I'm going to reach out. That happened to us more than you'll ever know. And you worked black clubs and white clubs. He said he did the Chitlin circuit. Yeah. The Chitlin circuit was black owned, black operated. And how was that for you? The 20 grand in Detroit, when Motown was there, Motown was in Detroit in those days. The 20 grand was a club owned by a gangster named BK, K Bush, Bill K Bush. You know, we, we worked there. Yeah. The High Chaparral in Chicago, the Burning Spear in Chicago, the Sugar Shack in Boston, the Club Hardem in Atlantic City before they had gambling. It was a great experience.

I'd be the only white guy within miles. But also, we worked all white clubs, like the Playboy Circuits and stuff like that, where there'd only be all white folks, and Tim, you know, would be the only black guy in that area. The interesting thing about racism in those days if if there was a black guy who hated white people hated him with a passion yeah he wasn't mad at me he was mad at tim for being with me yeah see tim would be an uncle tom right and if there was a white guy who hated black people with a passion he's not mad at tim he's mad at me i'm the n-word lover yeah they didn't mind calling me that yeah they didn't mind two or three of them got me down in a bathroom down

in atlanta georgiaed to do a number on me. The fourth time on stage. What happened? Well, I mean, I boxed when I was in the service. I'm not, I got an Irish-Italian temper. But that night, I have to tell you, Mark, that night I didn't, the three guys came in and I'm taking a leak. I'm at the urinal. And they start saying, oh, there's that, know and we're loving some bitch and are you bet you you know

giving him oral sex and I mean yeah I would like to give you the exact you can it's it I can yeah well this is what they said and and and I are you sucking his dick I bet you are yeah but you suck at it and I turned around I'm peeing at the time yeah and I looked at the three of them two of them were punks two of them but i smacked one the other one would start crying and i knew that if i if i waylaid this punk yeah the other one would drop to his knees and say don't hit but the third guy was dangerous yeah when i was a bartender i was able to do i could look in a guy's eye and say this guy's full of it he's nothing sure but the third guy i knew was going to hurt somebody yeah and i knew that there was no way I was going to get out.

And not only that, Tim's outside. While I was taking a leak, I just kept biting my lip. I bit my lip until it bled because I knew that I was going to say something crazy or something stupid, and I was going to get myself hurt and Tim too. So I finished, and I walked out, and I said, have a good day, guys, and I walked out the door. But I didn't sleep for almost two nights after that. I was scheming all sorts of things in my brain. Curious.

How I wanted to, oh, I would have loved to have killed those guys. Yeah. So you worked with him from 68 to 74? 69 to 75. 69 to 75. So all through. Early 75. The end of the Vietnam War.

Yeah. And through all that craziness, you guys were just plowing along. Yeah. And again. Crossing the racial divide. Totally. I mean, we did 11 prisons in one year. We did colleges, high schools where they had racial tension.

And oftentimes, we didn't get paid for that. And especially in the prisons, we didn't get paid. Doing it as a service. Well, just because I think laughter should go where laughter is needed. And did you find that when you did prisons or high schools where there was tension that you felt at ease a bit, at least while you were on stage? Or did you get feedback? That was the kind of feedback we got. We constantly got that feedback.

And to this day, to this day, Mark, on my Facebook or something like that, or I'll be appearing somewhere in America, somebody will come backstage and say hello and say, look, you don't remember me, but I was at such and such a school and you did this. And, you know, we needed it at that time. The drug education program, I can't tell you how many times I've had people come up and say, I never did drugs, Tom, because you and Tim came to our school and just woke me up. I was only in eighth grade. Yeah. And it woke me up and I never, you know, thank you very much. And these are people in their 40s now, probably. Oh, 40s, let me see.

Yeah, 40, maybe even early 50s, you know. And it still happens, huh? Yeah, yeah. Again, I love stand-up comedy. I'm a stand-up comedian first, last, and always. I'm nothing else. I'm nothing more than a stand-up comedian. That's what I love.

But you were living in Chicago the whole time with Tim, and when you guys broke up, he decided what? He's going to go to Hollywood? He went to live with Della Reese. He left his marriage, and he went to live with Della Reese and lived up in Bel Air with her, and he was riding high. I'll tell you something interesting. I came out here.

I was devastated. I was broken. something interesting. I came out here. I was devastated. I was broken. The comedy team was my whole life. I started doing stand-up alone. And you make a good living with the team? We barely made enough just to survive. So your wife's furious the whole time. She wanted me out of the business.

When I came out here to California, she thought I was only going to be out here a week and I was going to be back home. So I came out here thinking I'll get on at the comedy store in a day or two. How'd you know about it? It took me, well, everybody in those days, everybody was taught. First of all, when Johnny Carson left New York in 1972, Johnny Carson came to the West Coast. At that time, again, 1975, wherever you went in America, people say, what do you do for a living? You say, I'm a standup comedian. The next question out of their mouth was, oh, yeah? Have you ever been on Johnny Carson?

So you might want to be a comedian. You might going to be a comedian. But if you hadn't been on Johnny Carson in the eyes of America, you weren't there yet. Yeah. And how do you do? You got to come out here in a comedy store. We started hearing about the comedy store, that it was the greatest place to launch, that it's on Sunset Boulevard and so forth

and so on. So I came out here thinking that I could, and I visited the comedy store when I was working in the LA Playboy Club in 74. I went over to the comedy store and saw these comedians getting up and getting a chance to bring in new material and all that stuff. But anyhow, when I came out here, I thought that I could get on right away. I didn't know. It took me 30 days to get on.

I went there every night and tried to get on. What was the situation there then? Well, you sign up on a Monday night. Oh, so it was potluck. Yeah, it was for the open mic. And finally, after about a month, meanwhile, in that interim, I was house-sitting. I had never heard the word house-sitting in my life. In Chicago, if you're sitting on a house, you're a burglar.

You're a second-story guy. sitting in my life in Chicago if you're sitting on a house you're a burglar yeah you're a second story guy you know this girl singer that I had helped one time asked me to sit on her house house sit while she was on the road and I got to stay at her house for a while and I'd hitchhike every night to the comedy store and I couldn't get on you know and finally I got on one night and I always say this that the tonight show your first appearance on the tonight show in those days 26 million people saw the show right the pressure was enormous and i'm usually a calm comedian again i'm a motivational speaker so i use those procedures on my mind yeah i'm performing before i perform but that night the night of mitchie this is the night there was even more pressure than the time show because of this reason there

was no improvisation out here at that time the comedy store was the only game in town yeah where people came so So if Mitzi said no, you might as well go back to Harvey, Illinois or Boston or wherever you're from because it's over. So that five minutes that I did for Mitzi that night, the pressure was enormous. Luckily, I scored.

When I came off stage, Mitzi said, well, it's funny. I always say, whenever we talk about two people, comedians, Jay Leno or Mitzi, we always have to do their voice. Mitzi said, well, it seems you've got stage presence and you've obviously done this before, so we can find some room for you. And then I said, see, I started a little comedy club in Chicago called Les Pub and I MC. And I said, by the way, if you ever need an MC, I have MC'd lot, and I would gladly do that too, knowing that would give me more stage time. And she said, well, that's a thought.

And sure enough, first of all, I go on. When you first get your times, you get Tuesday at 1 o'clock in the morning, and then you work your way to finally the weekdays where you're finally on prime time on the weekdays, but now you want to work weekends. Now you're at 1 o'clock in the morning on weekends. And I work my way through the system but this is like but you were you were supposed to be here like just for a little while and you and then you end up staying you were house sitting

and it started to happen for you so you're calling your wife you're saying she wrote me a dear john she wrote me a dear john to that address and said this is your dream not mine i've had it you know you you go and you pursue whatever you want I want no part of it and was that that pardon me that was that that would no that wasn't the end of it I ended up getting a couple gigs out here Carl Reiner saw me at the uh at the comedy store one night and and and his wife Estelle really liked me and so he gave me a part in a film he she she told him help this boy you know so he gave me a part in a film. Then from there, people were coming down. What film?

It was called Good Heavens. He was an angel that came down and granted wishes. And I had to do a scene with a new actor on All in the Family called Rob Reiner. Yeah. And his wife, who by that time didn't have a show, Penny Marshall. So I did a scene with them, you know. And I got 500 bucks for it. And I asked them, could I have the money up front?

Could I get the money right away? And what I did when I went back to Chicago, I talked my wife into coming back with me to California and the kids. Oh, you did? Because I miss my kids. Sure. Sure. And to this day, we're as close as can be. So anyhow, long story short, she came out to the West Coast with me.

And after a while, I did my first tonight. So all these things. And now I'm on my way. And, you know, we a home and and the pool and the dog and the whole nine yards i'm doing real good but then after about 26 years our 25th anniversary we went back to illinois yeah because we got married in the shotgun you know shotgun we got married and and she never walked down the aisle with her dad we went back after 25 25 years and went to Ascension Church where I had been an altar boy. And eight months later, we got a divorce. Oh, no.

Costed me like 50 grand for all this stuff. What the hell happened? She just didn't want to be in this atmosphere. It took a long time for her to realize that. Yeah, and I don't blame her. She was a little girl from Harvey, Illinois, and it just wasn't her life. She kept saying, this is your life. I'll tell you a real eye-opening thing.

She's still around? No, she passed away a few years ago. She went to live in Arizona and lived with a guy for about 12 years. But I have three wonderful children and four grandchildren. I don't regret. If I died, I'm out. The world doesn't owe me a thing. But what was eye-opening to me was when I started turning with Frank Sinatra as his opening act,

they'd invite me to the home, their compound down in Rancho Mirage. And they'd say, bring your wife. And she'd say, oh, no, that's your. And finally, I convinced her. She finally agreed to go. And we're driving down there. We're halfway there. And she said, now, will we be in a bedroom, like down the hall from them? I said, no, no, they have a compound and they live in the master house. We live in a, we'll stay in a bungalow.

Frank had bungalows all along the outer perimeter of his compound called New York, New York, strangers in a night, tender trap my way. And that's where all of his house guests stayed. And so she said, I said, we'll be staying in the bungalow like the other house guests and she said other house guests what are you talking about i said well there's gonna be other people there she said like who and i said gregory peck and his wife veronie kirk douglas and his wife ann uh jack lemon his wife felicia i said angie dickinson um uh clint eastwood and who he was dating at the time, and Robert Wagner, Jill St. John. She started gagging. She said, stop the car, stop the car, stop the car.

I pulled off the road. She said, she got out of the car. She was walking. She was gagging. I said, what's wrong? She said, I'm not going. I'm not going. I don't belong there.

I don't belong there. She was so uneasy. And it took me an hour to calm her down. I drove down there with her, and sure enough, she had a great time. It's hard. It's a lot of pressure. These are celebrities.

Yeah, and well, she also, I mean, she grew up in Harvey, a blue-collar town, and I understood that, and she just kept saying, this is your world, not mine, you know. Well, from like going back a little bit, so you walk into the comedy store. I got to tell you, Mark, there's been so many misconceptions about our relationship.

I loved Mitchie. I mean, Mitchie gave me that shot. She gave me that shot. Are you kidding me? We had a great relationship. When it came time for the strike, I was the last person. I didn't want to be involved in that at all. I was making, I'm making $300,000.

I'm touring all over the country. I'm touring with Sammy Davis Jr. How many times have you done the Tonight Show by that point? Oh, God, how many times? That was 70. I've probably done 20 or so. Really? I did eight in one year.

Well, I mean, so how does that, before we get to the strike, how does that unfold? So you're here, did she ever make you emcee or she didn't follow through with that? No, yeah, I would emcee sometimes, you know. And then finally I started doing my own, you know, and finally I worked my way into the system and I became like one of the stars of the comedy store. And who was there? David Letterman, Robin Williams, Gallagher, Michael Keaton. These are all unknowns, you know, at the time.

The first Tonight Show, though, that must have been amazing. I mean, how'd that come about? I hustled and hustled and hustled Craig Tennis. Craig Tennis was the head talent coordinator at the Tonight Show. They came to the comedy store. They came looking for new comedians. I pestered him and pestered him to come and see me. And finally, one day he said, okay, I'm coming to see you he was looking at three people that night um bauman estin dave bruce babybaum yeah bauman estin was a comedy team larry estin later wrote for cheers and and and bruce baum was still doing sure and the other was a new kid named billy crystal right and me and uh i pull up in front of the comedy show on a tuesday night and i'm you know we're all thinking oh my god night, I hope there's a crowd. Because it's better to work in front of 150 people than to work in front of 10 people if you're auditioning for The Tonight Show.

I pull up in front of the comedy show, and the place is mobbed out in front. I look, and I said, oh, my God. And big stars are out there, Carl Reiner being one of them. And all these stars, Rollins and Jaffe, were a top-notch management firm. And what it was was Billy was auditioning, and they kept the crowd outside. They had talent coordinators from all the shows. They had casting people and everything. But they weren't going to let them in while I was on it when Baum and Esten were on

because that's what management does. They didn't bring all those people there to showcase me. They showcased their client, Billy Crystal. So I had to go on in front of about 22 people. Right. While a hundred and something were out in front. Right. You know, and anyhow, so, and I got over.

And Craig Tennis said to me afterward, he came outside, he said, okay, I want you to come to my office Tuesday. I liked what I saw, but come to my office Tuesday. I went to his, the following Tuesday, I went to his office and in his office he said, okay, I saw you do like 20 minutes. Show me the five you would do if I gave you the tonight show. So I did like five minutes in front of him. I do this bit, that bit. He said, okay, take that out.

Take that out. Now try it again. Give me something else. And I finally did. He said, okay, you got the show. You're on a week from today. Now for the whole week you don't eat, you know. Yeah.

But you're going and doing that bit every night at the comedy store. And then I got there and they put me in makeup and they take you down to the green room and they ran out of time. They bumped me. Come back in another week. I came back another week, same thing. They ran out of time. Come back another week. Three times in a row, I got bumped. And the fourth time I'm there in makeup and Fred DeCordova came in the makeup room and he said, I got some bad news for you. I said, what? He said, you're going on tonight.

And the pressure starts to build. Normally, when I became a veteran of the tonight show, when I'd go back to stage hands, hey, Dreesen, how's your Cubs? Hey, and everybody's real friendly with you. Because you're a veteran now. But that first time, when you're walking that long walk from that green room all the way around to the back of that curtain all the stage hands up they turn their back on you go it's his first time they're whispering it's his first time it's his first time you know now you get behind that curtain and Craig Tennant said you okay I said

I'm fine I'm fine he walks away now you're thinking I can't remember the first joke what was my first joke right now you're you're panicking now I'm talking to God one-on-one oh God man you got me this far. Don't let me down now. Help me do it. There's a black guy there who stayed years later even with Jay. He opens a curtain for you. But you're pacing.

Now they're in commercial break. And the music stopped. Doc Severinsen's playing. The music stops and your heart stops because you're back live. But Johnny Carson says the greatest thing. He says, we're back now. And he only does this for people on their first time. He says, we're back now. And he only does this for people on their first time. He said, we're back now.

And I'm glad you're in such a good mood tonight because my next guest is making his first appearance on the Tonight Show. Welcome, Tom Dreesen. Now, he said that one line, I'm glad you're in such a good mood tonight, sets that audience up. Help this guy. And you walk out and they open that open up they open that curtain you walk out you can't see the audience that bright lights in your eyes and you're like in an operating room looking for that spot to stand on that little green tea yeah you're looking because you know johnny's tea is over a little bit for the director but you hit that mark and oh boy and you get that

first joke out and i gotta laugh and i got the second joke out and i gotta laugh and the third joke i gotta laugh now i'm got in a role and the fourth joke i and I got a laugh. And the third joke, I got a laugh. Now I'm got in a row. And the fourth joke, I hear Johnny and Ed laughing behind me. Now, man, I can't tell you. I got about eight applause. And I get to the last joke. I said, you've been a wonderful audience. This is my first appearance on The Tonight Show. And show business is a tough life.

So if you like me, just if you like me and you're Protestant, say a prayer. If you're Catholic, light a candle. If you're Jewish, somebody in your family owns a nightclub. Tell them about me. I walk off. I go walk off and Craig Tennis comes running around the corner. I go through the curtain. He goes, go back, go back, go back. I said, go back, go back and sit by Johnny's. No, don't go sit by Johnny, but go back, go back. And I go back through the curtain and they're still applauding. And Johnny gives you that little circle. Okay. plotting and Johnny gives you that little circle. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Oh, and Mark, I walked back to the curtain and my whole life changed. The following day, CBS signed me to a development

deal. A guy named Lee Curlin from New York was watching the show that night and ended up sending me to a development deal. I've never stopped working since that time. Never. I did 61 appearances on the Tonight Show after a while, but that first appearance, CBS signed me to this development deal. I got a check for $10,000. In those days, a lot of money. And I got $1,850 a month for one year. They were trying to develop something for me. But that meant my rent, my groceries, everything was paid.

My rent in Van Nuys was $225 a month. And I had a wife and three kids in that little apartment. But everything was paid for. I could now focus on my career. Next, I was doing Dinah Shore, Merv Griffin, Mike Douglas, Shani Carson, Midnight Special, Rock Concert, Soul Train, American Bandstand. I'm doing all these shows. And meanwhile, Sammy Davis Jr. had a show called Sammy and Company. I did his show, and he took me on the road with him for three years.

I've never stopped working since that first Tonight Show. It's just been an amazing moment. Oh, yeah. And when you come back to the store, then, you're like a made guy, too, right? You do the Tonight Show, and everybody at the comedy store is like, oh, my God. Well, David Letterman will tell you that him and Johnny Dark and George Miller and all of them, they watched my first appearance at the comedy store in the back room there where the TV was. And they root for you.

I mean, there's no greater supporters of comedians than other comedians, in my opinion. I tried to tell the comedians. A few. A few, yeah. I tried to tell the comedians so many times during this strike, the rest of your life, comedians are going to get you more work than agents maybe sometimes

because when I started out in show business, there were no comedy clubs in America, none. And then there were 500 of them. Tulsa, Oklahoma had three comedy clubs at one time. I mean, comedy clubs began springing up all over America. So you can't work those clubs 52 weeks a year. So each time you work that club, when you're leaving, you're going to tell the owner, hey, my friend Mark Maron,

pretty funny guy. You know what I mean? Comedians are always going to support the owner, hey, my friend Mark Maron. Yeah. Pretty funny guy. You know what I mean? You're always going to, comedians are always going to support, in most cases, support other comedians. So your close friends at the store were Dave, right? Jay Leno and Dave. I mean, Jay and I were buddies. I mean, David Letterman and I were closer because we played basketball together. We played racquetball together.

We jogged together. We were real pals and still are. He's one of my dearest friends. I know he left here to go have dinner with you. Yeah, we have a great time. Him and I and Johnny Witherspoon and Tim Thomerson. And guess what we talked about? The early days at the Comedy Store.

That's nice. But Johnny Dark was a dear buddy of mine and still is to this day. Johnny Witherspoon, a dear buddy of mine. Tim Thomason. Yeah. You know, I've remained friends. There's something about, I can make the analogy from stand-up comedy to the military. There's something about being with these guys that when you go through a lot of tough times, you bond.

You just bond. And all that stuff about. It's a lesser trauma, but it is a trauma. It's a trauma. Because, you know what first of all comedians know we somebody tells me he's a stand-up comedian she's a stand-up comedian i have immediate respect for them because we know what it's like up there when it didn't work and those years of struggling and bombing and can't get work and can't pay the rent and people

are telling you get out of that stupid business and get yourself a real job it's so funny last night even you know i've been doing this half my life now you have 30 35 that stupid business and get yourself a real job. It's so funny. Last night, even, you know, I've been doing this half my life now, you know, 30, 35, 35 years, right? And I do all right. I'm good. But like, you know, I brought Ron White on stage last night,

you know, and you have that moment where you say hi to, you're passing the mic, and he goes, you're getting good. I'm like, what are you fucking, I'm getting good, you motherfucker. I know. Comics can be cruel i think he was serious yeah of course he was i got i think maybe the first time i registered you know in a way yeah you see me a bunch of times it's very funny i i tell you

i think there's nothing greater than to have the respect of your peers. There's nothing greater. It might be all you get. Yeah. And David always had you on his show. But the fact that 40 years, I mean, what the hell happened in that strike, Tom? I mean, this is like a defining moment in your life. I mean, here you are, you're opening for Sammy, you got a career with Frank, you're a big act, you're making a living. And just walk me through what happened with the strike. a living and just walk me through what happened with the strike. Well, here's what happened why I never went back. When the strike was over and it should have never, ever been more. But what happened? How did it happen? You'll hear different versions, but I will tell you the truth and everybody has their own truth. Okay. But I'll tell you what happened was I came back off the road. Now, the comedy store, when Mitchie first had the comedy store,

it was just one room, the original room. And then- What was in the main room then? In the main room, a guy named, God, he had like a 50s night and all that stuff. Why can't I think of his name? Anyhow, he then was going to do a comedy thing in that room. Yeah. And Mitchie told all the comedians, if you do that, you'll never work here again and all that stuff.

Down the hall. Art LeBeau. Art LeBeau. Art LeBeau. She bought that section. She ended up buying that section from him. So she forbids you guys

from working down the hall. Well, she just kind of said, if he's going to have, be my competition. He's going to compete in the same building? Yeah. So we all knew

that we were going to be loyal to Mitchie and we were. Yeah. But anyhow, she gets the main room and she buys that part of the comedy store and that's,

what, a 300 and something seater or 400 seater. 400 seater, yeah. Yeah, 400 seater. She starts booking stars like Jackie Mason came in and he'd get the door.

She'd get the liquor which is, that's where the money's at as you know. The door is good but the liquor, that's where the money is. One night,

I come off the road and I I'm called in for times. I was working on new material. So I go over there, and I go to go in the original room. They said, oh, Tom, you're in the main room. I said, I'm in the main room. And the main room was Robin Williams, Tom Dreesen, Jay Leno, David Letterman, Elaine Boosler. Place is mobbed, packed.

We all killed. But even when I went on stage, I thought, wow, this is like working Vegas. Place is mobbed, packed. We all kill. But even when I went on stage, I thought, wow, this is like working Vegas. I'm like back in Vegas. I go to the Cantors afterward. All the comics hung out at Cantors. We're all at Cantors sitting around having a good time. In comes Jay Leno. Man, this is bullshit, man.

This is bullshit. She pays them guys. They get the door. Maybe it took five of us to fill the room, but we should get something. And now I'm listening. I'm making a living. I'm making six figures a year. I'm doing real good.

And you don't get paid in the original room at that time. There was no pay. No get paid original room or the Westwood or anywhere. So at the comedy club. So anyhow, so I said. Because she thought it was a workshop. She was doing you guys a favor. Yes, exactly.

That's what she called it, a college workshop but so i'm listening i'm in the comics decide let's have a meeting let's call all the other comics have me and i'm i'm home off the road so i go to the meeting and it was chaos utter chaos they're all talking at the same time and whatever you're doing and there's other case the only thing they decided at the end of that two hours was they would have another meeting i went to the second meeting same thing chaos everybody you know and finally i just stood up and said hold it hold it you guys my jc years i said you're not getting anything done and your union years right i said let me chair the meeting let me just chair the meeting and then i would i finally got him to robert's rules of order how to chair a meeting i finally got him calmed down i'd say okay hold on hold on jay you have the floor.

Gallagher, hold on. Gallagher, hold on one second. Gallagher's out. Put the hammer down. Yeah, he's yelling, burn the place down. I'd say, let me make a point. Then we'd second the motion. And I got them organized. When you get them organized, they were a group to really be reckoned with.

They were smart kids. My era came out of the poor neighborhoods. Their era came out of colleges. These were smart kids. And we started forming of the poor neighborhoods. Their era came out of colleges. These were smart kids. And we set forming committees and subcommittees and what have you. And eventually, they said, will you go talk to Mitzi for us to present the case? And I went to talk to Mitzi. To get paid.

To get paid. For the main room or all rooms? Anytime you appeared on stage where they had a cover charge. Yeah. We thought in those days the word cover meant to cover the cost of entertainment. Come to find out that wasn't true, I thought that cover charge meant to cover the cost of entertainment,

but there was nothing definitive in law that said that. But that's what we thought. So anywhere you charge a cover charge, the comedian should get a portion of that. Mitchie said, no, I'm not paying the comedian. He said,

you don't deserve to be paid and so forth and so on. What was her argument? Well, her argument was that it's a nightclub. I mean, it's a college. It's a workshop and so forth and so on. But I told Mitchie that they want to be paid, and I think it's fair, Mitchie. I think you should consider it back and forth.

And the comedians now are getting more and more organized, more and more organized, and Mitchie just simply wasn't going to do it. One night I took Tim Thomerson, Paul Mooney, George Miller, and myself to Mitchie's house. And we sat there. At 10 o'clock at night, we're going to talk to her. At 2 o'clock in the morning, Tim Thomerson had fallen asleep. Paul Mooney was sitting, like he was sleeping on the couch. George Miller was exhausted.

And I was the only one left with Mitchie. Still, she would not budge an inch. I'm not paying them, Tommy. They're not being paid. So anyhow, all of this is going on. I keep taking the information back to the comedians that she's not going to pay. She just simply is not going to pay. One night, I'm laying in bed.

I was married at the time. I leap up out of bed and scared the hell out of my wife. I said, I got it. She's like, what's wrong? I said, no, I got it. I got it. Why didn't I think of this before? I couldn't sleep the rest of the night. I get to her office early in the morning. I'm waiting for her to come in. She comes in. I said, Mitchie, I got it. You're charging $5 at the door. Charge six. I said, let the comedians

have that $1. That's all. Not going to cost you a dime. Just charge $1 more. And if 100 people show up, they get to split 100 bucks for the. And if 100 people show up, they get to spend $100 for the night. If 200 people show up, they get to spend $200. No. No, they don't deserve to be paid. Now, that's when it— That seemed personal. It numbed me because, see, I thought it was about money.

Yeah. That's what I thought it was about. Yeah. If it was about money, we could find a solution. But when she said no, that she's not going to pay, when I left there that morning, I was just like numbed out of my head. What do you think it was about money we could find a solution but when she said no that no she's not going to pay when i left there that morning i was just like numbed out of my head what do you think it was about well i mean argus and i have this argument all the time he said it wasn't about money at all it wasn't about money at all but but but i think it was i think it was in you but what was it about well it you know in her mind this was her in her mind this was a a college a learning place where

you went on you got you learned your craft and you went out to you don't think she had any sort of like strange deep resentment towards comics on some level you mean because she was married to a comic yeah like she's gonna make you all pay for that guy well that's what that you know she was married for those who are listening and don't understand she was married to a comedian who just passed away by the way yeah sammy shore you know yeah understand, she was married to a comedian who just passed away, by the way. My audience, yeah. Sammy Shore, you know.

Yeah. But she was married to a comedian for years. So, obviously, you know, she went through some tough times with a comedian. And when she divorced him, she got the comedy store and the divorce, you know. But I don't know what it was. Right. It bothered me deeply. And finally, you know, I said to her, I couldn't convince her.

And now, from my home, my home became Combat Central. You know, in those days, you know, we didn't have cell phones. And so all the guys, all the men and women would be there, and we had these comedians. And finally one night they decided, let's go on strike. The last thing I want to do is go on. I'm from Chicago. I know what a strike is about, and I didn't want to do that.

But I called Mitchie, and I said, Mitchie, I'm here with all the comedians. And I had a speakerphone on the thing. I said, I'm here with all the comedians. And they're talking about going on strike tonight, Mitchie. They want to strike the store tonight. Wouldn't you consider that we could sit down and at least discuss it? She said, not one red fucking cent. And I said, would you repeat that?

And she said, not one red fucking and they all yelled strike strike and that night they went on strike at the comedy show now here's where my dilemma came in i'm making money yeah i don't really want to get involved in this thing but now they all the women get together and the guys get together the comedians and they decided when the camera crews now steve bluestein was in charge ofustein was in charge of the publicity committee. So he did an outstanding job. He got ABC, NBC, CBS. He got CNN. He got Variety.

He got Hollywood Reporter. When we pulled out in front of the light, when we went to that comedy store that night, the place was jammed with camera trucks and all that stuff and camera crews. Well, they voted not to have all the comedians talk just have one otherwise we'll dilute our message right so they voted well let tom dreesen be the spokesman i i regret that to my day really yes because it turned me into like jimmy hoffa i mean i was getting so much and they're picketing with signs oh signs oh yeah yeah you know uh no no yucks no bucks no yucks right right silly so now you're the guy.

Now I'm on the cover of magazines. I'm like the Jimmy Hoffa, the organizer. Yeah. There was rumor all around, show business, don't hire this guy. He's a rabble rouser. He's going to, you know, anyhow. Really? But so for like six, seven weeks, we're walking the picket line,

and 19 comedians crossed the picket line, or it would have been over in 24 hours. Oh, so she had enough to work. Yeah, she had just enough to keep it going. Well, Argus we knew. When we had our brainstorming meetings, we knew Argus because Argus was very loyal to Mitch. And we understood that. Argus is my dear friend to this day. I think the world of him.

Argus Hamilton is a funny, brilliant guy. He's really the only one of your generation that still works there, you know. Still there, yeah, I know, yeah. I see him every night. Well, he makes a good living now because we went on strike. So it was him and Ali and Biff, and who were the other loyalists if there was only 18? I got the list at home. There were 18 guys and one girl.

And I always felt that if they would have stayed with us just 24 hours, it would have been over. They were too afraid. Well, they weren't afraid. They were claiming they were more loyal to Mitchie. And we, the comedians of that time, talk about this sometimes. There wasn't any of them that were doing mainstream at the Comedy Store at that time. They weren't headliners. Well, they were desperate and they needed the stage time.

They didn't care if they were. Was Lou Bittgen one of them? Yes. No, Steve Lou Bittgen was with us. Why he he committed suicide and that's why i never went back to the comedy star for 40 years when the strike was over and we won and and they were going to pay the comedians and we went through all that kind of stuff you guys negotiated a percentage deal for the main room and a flat rate for the or yes and and still stands you, I know. And I understand you guys are making a nice little few bucks, and I'm happy for you.

We do. If you play the main room, you do all right. I mean, you get a few bucks, yeah. Well, I'm happy for you. Well, thank you for your service. Well, I'll tell you the strange two things I want to tell you about this. How it ended.

The night that it ended, I had to speak before Screen Actors Guild. They asked me to come and speak and give my spiel, and they asked Mitzi's loyalists to speak. So Biff Maynard came, and it was Mark Linau and Joanne Astro and myself, and Biff Maynard and a guy named Danny Mora. They spoke for Mitzi, and I spoke pro comedians, right? Biff Maynard got up, and he's in a room full of artists. He said, comedians don't

deserve to be don't need to be paid we're artists and artists don't need to be paid well he's in he said that in front of a room full of artists and i saw that that didn't go over real well and yeah so we're going back and forth but one of the things that in the middle of the strike at one point mitchie decided she would pay 25 on weekends only only, not weeknights. And I took the offer back to the comedians. I said, hey, you guys, we won. She'll pay $25 a set on the weekends, but not weeknights. Sundays are weeknights. And the comedians voted against that, saying, hey, anytime he charges a cover charge, we should get a part of that.

So I had to go back and say, Mitchie, they turned it down, turned down the offer. But she was paying those who crossed the picket line $25 on the weekend. So I said to the audience when I got up, I said, this gentleman just got up and told you that artists don't deserve to be paid. Do you know what he did last weekend? He worked the comedy store and he got $25 on Friday and $25 on Saturday. He got $50 for working the comedy store for the weekend. Yeah.

Because we struck, he got the $50. And you know what he did with got $50 for working the comedy store for the weekend because we struck, he got the $50. And you know what he did with that $50? He went and got something to eat tonight. And then he went and put gas in his car to come over and tell you that we shouldn't be paid and got applause and all that kind of stuff. You know, I said, if you don't stand by us, I don't know that we can win this fight. We need your support desperately. I don't know if we can win this fight it's been a long journey and we're not getting yeah well they then afterward you know they they came up to me and said we're going to take a full page ad out in variety and a full page ad out in the hollywood reporter saying that we support you now i go back to the comedy store and i'm telling we're on a picket line and i'm telling the comedians hey we did real good they're going to take an ad meanwhile

in the driveway there by the comedy store where I saw you at the driveway there, Mitchie had gotten an injunction that we couldn't walk across that driveway because it stopped people from coming in. So we had to honor that and only stay to the right of that driveway. So when we walked the picket line. Out in the street, I see a car going racing the engine. I look and it's Biff Maynard. And he's waiting to come in. He's facing east and it's biff maynard and it's and he's waiting to come in he's he's facing east he's waiting to pull in there he's waiting for the traffic to go by that's going west and then he's gonna put it and i see a couple of the comedians

jay leno being one of them in that driveway and i holler get out of there get out of that driveway get out and i heard and that car goes flying into the driveway here boom and he goes flying in the back and on the ground is jay leno laying on the ground yeah jay and i i said oh my god the girl And that car goes flying into the driveway. I hear, boom! And he goes flying in the back. And on the ground is Jay Leno laying on the ground. Yeah. Jay Leno. And I said, oh, my God. The girls are crying.

Here, Jay. Here, Jay. Here, Jay. I'm almost ready now in my brain, Mark, for a nervous breakdown. I've had it. I've had it. I can't take this shit anymore. Jay's laying on the ground.

When Biff walks up, I'm going to break his jaw. I'm going to fire on him. I'm going to do everything I can. I'm ready to break. I looked down on the ground. I'm telling him, call an ambulance. We didn't have cell phones in those days. Call an ambulance, call an ambulance right away. Get an ambulance. I looked down at Jay and Jay opens his eyes and he winks at me and he closes his eyes again. I went, you son of a bitch, you son of a bitch. And he's, and he's got a big grin he's laying there you know Biff comes out of the car and goes

you were Jay I didn't hit him I didn't mean it I didn't hit him and everybody oh cray ass ambulance is coming now the ambulance is coming

and Jay doesn't want to go there's nothing wrong with him he hit the car with the side of his hand when the car went by so now Jay's not going to go but they have a law you got to go to the hospital

the paramedics can't release you a doctor's got to had to take him to the hospital. Meanwhile, moments later, they come outside and said, Mitchie wants to talk to you inside. She said, let's settle this thing tonight. And we sit up till 4 o'clock in the morning. We settled it.

Now, the strike is over two or three weeks, about three weeks. I give a farewell speech. I'm going on the road. I had $50,000 worth of work with Sammy Davis that I turned down during that strike. Because once I got into it, I didn't want to get out of it. So I didn't go on the road i had turned i had fifty thousand dollars worth of work with sammy davis that i turned down during that strike because i once i got into it i didn't want to get out of it yeah so i didn't go on the road but now i got to go back on the road again yeah and so i said goodbye to all the comedians yeah and i'm leaving my wife is with me at that time and i'm leaving and george miller wants to talk to me and and um steve lebeckin wants to talk to me and all the comics are talking to me and i said look you guys i gotta go i gotta go and steve leBeckin wants to talk to me. And all the comics are talking to me. And I said, look, you guys, I got to go.

I got to go. And Steve LeBeckin said, Tommy, I called in for times, three times in a row. She won't let me on. She won't let me on. If you leave the group, if you leave the group, we'll lose our strength and all that stuff. I said, look, I'm not leaving the group, Steve. Now, George Muller sent to me. I said, George, wait, I got to go.

My wife is saying, we got to go. You're late. I said, Steve, Steve, look, it's in the contract. She can't retaliate against anybody who walks the picket line. He said, but I called in three times in a row and she won't give me any times. I said, Steve, look. And finally, my wife said, we got to go. I said, Steve, I said, Steve, I put my hands on his shoulder.

I said, Steve, I won't go back till you go back. I give you my word. I won't go back till you go back. And he looked forlorn and everything. He said, okay, now we leave. I go to the meeting. I go to Tahoe. I'm there a few days and I get a call from Jay Leno 15 minutes before I go on stage.

And he says, you know, Steve LeBeckin committed suicide. He jumped off the top of the Continental Hyatt House next door to the Comedy Store. And he dove toward the Comedy Store and he left a suicide note saying, my name is Steve LeBeckin. I used to work at the Comedy Store. That was his suicide note. You know, and that is Steve Lubetkin. I used to work at the comedy store. That was a suicide note. You know, and that just destroyed it for me. I just said this whole thing was so stupid, so could have been over in 24 hours. You know, I'm not blaming anybody on Steve's death. Steve, obviously, was a troubled person. It just, it was so unnecessary, the whole thing. I just said,

I'm never going back. Because I said to him, I won't go back to you go back and of course 40 years later i went back for mike binder when he asked me to do it you know but that's the story how did it feel to go back it was it was strange it was almost like going back to high school you know i mean it's i have a lot of fond memories there and everything uh when i went on stage that night it was fun you know and mike filmed it um i didn't feel the camaraderie that i felt sure because obviously my my class was long since gone you know but uh but i have to say the comedians were just really really really good to me i mean when i went there all the comedians are young kids that i didn't know never knew some i've heard of you know know, like Mark Maron, kid, only been doing it 35 years.

But everybody was really nice, really complimentary and say, you know, welcome back and I'm glad you're here and we've been getting paid. I remember years ago a comedian came up to me and he said, hey, somebody told me once that you guys used to work for free. I said, yeah. He said, the first time I ever went on stage, I got paid. I said, congratulations.

So now, you know, after all these years, you know, you work for Sinatra. How long? 14 years. And 45, 50 cities a year for 14 years. No kidding. Yeah. What did you learn from him? Well, he was probably the most

generous guy I've ever met in my life. I learned about punctuality. I learned about the show is the most important thing. Frank would party all night long. You want to party, he'd party, he'd drink you under the table and four like you, you know, but showtime, you didn't mess with that. The show was the most important thing. No matter what, no matter what, everybody better know their job because he always delivered. He always delivered. He was, he was a most important thing. No matter what. No matter what. Everybody better know their job. Did he always deliver? He always delivered. He was a consummate pro. He was just a pro. But also, he taught me a lot about show business.

He taught me. Sammy Davis Jr. really taught me a lot. I would sit in the wings and watch Sammy. There wasn't anything Sammy couldn't do on a stage. First time I ever went to Vegas, my very first time opening for Sammy Davis, it was, you you know i was getting near showtime and in the afternoon we had he had a rehearsal now i'm all alone rooms empty i walked out on the stage and i've never been in vegas before now i'm at caesar's palace and i'm looking

around looking at getting familiar with the stage and sammy saw me and he came out and he said are you nervous babe i suppose it's my first time in las vegas and opening for you he said see these boards he looked down at, see these boards? He looked down at me and said, see these boards on the stage? You earned every one of these boards. This is your stage. Don't let them take that from you. If they could do what we do, they'd be up here.

They can't do what we do. That's why they're out there and we're up here. This is your stage. Don't let them take that from you. And now I'll tell you something else. Caesars in those days served food. And when they served food, the comedian dies because the opening act, you were in front of all that food being served

and being taken, and when the headliner came on, all that stuff had to be out of the room, all the waiters and waitresses and all the food out of the room, so the headliner, you had to set them up. So working Caesars, A, it's the toughest room in Vegas to work

because it's got a high ceiling. We like a low ceiling. Laughter is sound. It hits the ceiling and comes back at us, so the lower the ceiling, the's the toughest room in Vegas to work because it's got a high ceiling. We like a low ceiling. Laughter is sound. It hits the ceiling and comes back at us. So the lower the ceiling, the better the room. The sands, the desert inn, the Riviera, great showrooms. The Caesars was the toughest. Sammy said at the rehearsal,

Nat Brandywine was a conductor. He said, Tommy, you'll do 20 minutes. Sammy does an hour and 10. We do 90-minute shows here. Sammy said, hold on, Nat. This is Tommy's first time in Las Vegas. He's got a score. I'll come out and I'll do 20 minutes. Sammy does an hour and 10. We do 90-minute shows here. Sammy said, hold on, Nat. This is Tommy's first time in Las Vegas. He's got a score. I'll come out, and I'll do three songs, maybe four,

and then I'll bring Tommy out. And he said, and Tommy, you do whatever time it takes. When you feel you got him. And he said, if it takes more than 20 minutes, do 25, do whatever. He said, and then I'll make up the rest of the time. And Nat said, well, it's your show, Sammy. You do whatever you want. Sammy would come out while they're serving dinner. He would come out and sing three or four songs. Waiters and waitresses were pulling food away from people. They weren't even finished eating yet because he

had to clear the room. And then Sammy would introduce me. He'd say, ladies and gentlemen, my audience has been wonderful to me all these years. I feel like my audience is family. And when family does something good for you, you want to do something for them. Like maybe get them a present. I got a gift for you. I saw this kid. This is the way he'd introduce me. I know you're going, oh my God, don't overdo this introduction. And I would go out and he said, Tommy, he told me, he said, Tommy, if you get good reviews your first time in Vegas, you'll come back. You'll be able to come back. He also put my name on the marquee, which a lot of times opening acts didn't get on a marquee. He said, if I put your name on the marquee, whoever you work for after this, we set a precedent. He taught me more about show business.

And Frank. And Dean. So he really, not unlike Carson, Sammy set you up in Vegas. Yeah. No doubt about it. And every time I go there, and I worked there for years and years, and I still work there. But every time I go there, I thank him. Thank you, Sammy, for what he did.

And this taught me so much and same way frank taught me more about um i mean punctuality show business and and also he was the kindest man i ever met in my life one time working with frank we're at the wall of a story in new york and we were going out to do a gig we were we came out the back door because frank couldn't go out the front he'd be mobbed and he had apartment in the back as we're rushing to the limousine Frank couldn't go out the front. He'd be mobbed. And he had an apartment in the back. As we're rushing to the limousine, a woman jumped out of the doorway. The doorman told me she'd been there for like five hours. And she's screaming, Mr. Sinatra, please, Mr. Sinatra. And the security's rushing him to the limo.

And she kept howling, please, Mr. Sinatra. And the security was holding her back. Frank finally turned around and he went back to her. He said, what is it? She said, my husband is home sick. And if you would send an autograph, it would mean the world to him. And he said, Frank said, sure. And he sent me the autograph and she said, oh, what beautiful cufflinks. They were $2,000 cufflinks. I know where he got them at. And she said, what beautiful cufflinks. He said, thank you. And when he finished the autograph, he took the cufflinks off and he handed them to her. He said,

give these to your husband. She said, no, no, I don't want them. I don't want them. I just was a minor. He said, no, I want your husband to have them. We get in the limo and I said, Frank, that was beautiful what you did, but why did you do that? He said, Tommy, if you possess something that you can't give away, then you don't possess it. It possesses you. And I never, I never forgot that. He said, it's okay if somebody said, I love your Mercedes Benz and you don't give it to them. But when you get shaving in the morning and you're looking in the mirror at that guy, you've got to admit to that guy in the mirror,

that car owns you because you can't give it away. And many things like that he did. When I first went to Frank Sinatra, he was the boss. Later on, he became like a buddy, a pal. And then toward the end, he was like a father to me and gave me a lot of great advice. And I miss him every day of my life. Touring with him, I can't even describe to you how exciting that was.

It's like being an altar boy and serving mass for the Pope or something, I guess, you know. Every night. Every night. Every night was an exciting night. Every night was, you know, flying in his private jet all over the world, landing, squad cars. Funny guy? Well, he liked being funny, but he wasn't always funny. But I knew, see, Frank, there's two types of drink three types of drinkers i used to say when

i was a bartender yeah i used to call it the three hours you know my buddies would go through one of the three hours when they're drinking a couple of drinks and they become uh rocky marciano they want to fight everybody in place or a couple of drinks they become rudolph valentino they want to fuck everybody in a place or a couple drinks they become rip van winkle they want to sleep frank was rocky a couple of drinks and Frank got pretty testy. Yeah. But I could see it coming and I would change the subject all the time. The staff used to love it when I'd hang with them until dawn because if I could see him

going in that area- Oh, get him off the rant? I'd say, tell me about that time when you and Dean, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. And you'd tell me this. So he felt like he was getting angry about something? Yeah. Because he'd get a little testy after a few drinks. But we had just said I had a wonderful relationship with him.

I made up my mind when I first started touring with Frank Sinatra, if he ever went off on me, and I've seen him go off on a lot of people, if he ever went off on me, I was going to reach over and shake his hand and say, Frank, thank you so much for the years I've been with you, and this is it, and walk away. Because I didn't want a bad, I didn't, I wasn't going to be his whipping boy. No, I wasn't going to be his whipping boy or anybody's whipping boy. But, but he never, that day never came. We just had such a wonderful relationship. Never came. Yeah. I got, I got tapes of him where he brings me back on stage. Tommy, come back. Every night when I do my show, he'd bring me back for another bow. Tommy,

come back and take another bow. He said, Tommy, there's my man, my number one man. I've got those tapes, you know. And that, I can't tell you, I was a little boy shining shoes in Harvey in the bars and on every jukebox. Sinatra was singing. And when I came out of the service, I'm tending bar and I'd hear him on the jukebox, come fly with me and let's fly away. And now I was flying with him in a private jet we're going into chicago to do the chicago theater in my hometown where i used to shine shoes yeah and then and he'd say to me we're gonna knock him dead tonight tommy and i'm thinking i'm pinching myself jeez that's great you were with him till the end yeah till the very last song he ever sang which

was the best is yet to come and on his tombstone, it says, The Best Is Yet To Come, Francis Albert Sinatra. And he knew the family and everything? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He knew my kids. And he was just good to me. And his wife, Barbara, they were just so good to me. You know, during that 14 years I toured with Frank,

I turned down more sitcoms than most comedians get offered in a lifetime. I turned down more shows. I had more opportunities. But I was playing golf on a golf tour called the Celebrity Players Tour, which is basketball, baseball, football, hockey, tennis, and show business people that were 10 handicapper below. So it was Johnny Bench, Mike Schmidt, Marlon Mu, John Elway, Dan Marino, Michael Jordan, 42 Hall of Famers. I'm competing with these great

athletes in 12 cities a year, and I'm flying with Frank Sinatra in his private jet. athletes in 12 cities a year and I'm flying with Frank Sinatra in his private jet. Christopher Morley once said, success is living the life you want. I was living the life I wanted. I was living this dream and I didn't want to give that up to go work with an ensemble group that every day they were bitching and moaning and complaining because you got more laughs than they got. Or you got executives to deal with or they might cancel the show or the writer's going to make you say things you don't want to say. I mean. Yeah.

You nailed it. That's exactly. I had all this freedom, and here I was. If somebody would have told me when I was a little boy shining shoes, hear that guy singing on the jukebox? Yeah. One day he's going to have you in his home, and one day he's going to fly with you in a private. You're going to be with him in a private jet, and you're going to grace the same stage as Frank Sinatra. I'd say that's impossible. If somebody would have said to me when I was a little boy, you know're going to grace the same stage as Frank Sinatra. I'd say that's impossible.

If somebody would have said to me when I was a little boy, you know all those athletes you admire? One day you're going to compete with the greatest athletes who ever lived in your life. You're going to get into an arena, and you're going to compete against the greatest athletes who ever lived in your lifetime. I'd say that's impossible. That'll never happen. But I was doing both of those things.

How's your golf game? When I leave you, I'm heading right to the golf course right now. We've got a 1 o'clock tee. Oh, boy, we ought to get you out of here. Well, God damn it. It was an honor talking to you. Well, thank you. I'm honored because, first of all, I've done my research on you,

and you've got a whole lot of listeners, a whole lot. And I admire you for that. And you had the President of the United States on your show. Sure, yeah. How about that? Yeah. Did you ever think about that? No. That one day you'd be interviewing the President of the United States on your show? Sure, yeah. How about that? Yeah. Did you ever think about that? No.

That one day you'd be interviewing the President? In my house. In your house, the President. I got to be honest with you, Tom. You know, it's a tight competition between, you know, who I was more nervous about, you know, interviewing in my house, President Obama or David Letterman. Because, you know, for me, like you were with Carson, you know, letterman because you know for me like you were with carson yeah

letterman was like that for me like he spent most of my life how do i get i gotta be on letterman and then you get the one letterman and then you got how do i get another one and i did maybe four or five and i don't think he really necessarily even registered to him but the fact that he was coming over i'm'm like, this doesn't make sense. Yeah, no, I get it. I get it. You know, we're a bunch of little kids who are fulfilling these dreams. And you know why I stayed with Frank Sinatra so long?

He never knew how much in awe of him I was. He never knew that because I never let him see that. I don't know, maybe it was being a bartender. You played the regular guy. Well, like when I was a bartender, I could read people. Sometimes you read people. Yeah, sure. But somehow I picked up when I first met him that he had millions of fans. Yeah.

He didn't need another fan. Right. He didn't need another guy standing there with a job. And gosh, Frank, you were great tonight. Yeah, right. When he was great. Yeah. I'd say, great crowd tonight.

Yeah, they came to play. We'd talk like that. I picked up on that and he never knew how much in awe of him I was he was this is a guy forget about that

he's the greatest pop singer of all time forget about all that what about that he danced with Gene Kelly he danced with Gene Kelly for Christ's sake not only that

what about he won the Academy Award never took an acting lesson never took an acting was that Man with the Golden Arm no From Here to Etern took an acting lesson. Was that Man with the Golden Arm? No, From Here to Eternity. From Here to Eternity, yeah. He should have won with The Man with the Golden Arm or The Manchurian Candidate.

Yeah. One night sitting with Gregory Peck, Kirk Douglas, Clint Eastwood, Robert Wagner, Jack Lemon. We were all sitting in Frank's backyard about 3 o'clock in the morning, and they were talking film and directing, and I'm this little kid from Harvey, Illinois. I'm just hanging on every word. And all of a sudden, it occurred to me when they were talking, and directing, and I'm this little kid from Harvey, Illinois. I'm just hanging on every word. And all of a sudden it occurred to me, when they were talking,

I noticed that all these actors are showing such great reverence to Frank. So I said to him, did you ever study acting? And Gregory Peck grabbed my arm real hard. He said, acting lessons would have ruined him. He was a diamond in the rough you didn't fool with. That's why whenever you gave Frank Sinatra a song,

to him it was a script yeah what did the writer feel the night the writer took pen in hand he would immerse himself in the lyric and become that lonely guy in a bar whose woman left him and you're never gonna find love again and you felt that pain you felt that or the joy of a song come fly with me let's fly away i mean he he was a brilliant actor and never took an acting lesson. Yeah. This is, he was a special, how many living legends are you honestly going to meet in your lifetime? He was truly a living legend. I only met a couple. Yeah.

Besides me. Yeah. I was only counting you. Great talking to you, Tom. You too, Mark. Have a good game. This was a lot of fun. Let's do it again.

Great talking to you, Tom. You too, Mark. Have a good game. This was a lot of fun. Let's do it again. All right, that was Tom Dreesen. A little bit of history for you. You can see his one-man show called An Evening of Laughter and Stories of Sinatra. Go to TomDreesen, D-R-E-E-S-E-N,.com for dates and locations.

Go to SortOfTrust.com for dates and times and where you can see that film. Go to wtfpod.com slash tour for my upcoming tour dates in many places. I'm going to be in Houston, Austin, Dallas, Detroit, Chicago, Portland, Minneapolis, Washington, D.C., San Francisco, Nashville, Atlanta. Go check. All right? I got to go. I'm not at home. I'm hot.

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