WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1041 - Juston McKinney

Episode Date: August 1, 2019

Juston McKinney’s story keeps coming back to New Hampshire. It’s where he grew up, where he lost his mother at age six, where his father was a homeless alcoholic, and where Juston became a cop. He tells Marc why he joined the police force in the first place, why he gave it up for comedy, how his background as a cop made him a hot comedian with TV deals and big money promises that all went away. Through the career ups and downs, Juston always finds himself back in New Hampshire, for comedy purposes and for his family. This episode is sponsored by Good Boys from Universal Pictures. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Ah, that kind of drove that into a ditch, didn't I? That didn't work out, did it? Huh? No, it did not. Today on the show, Justin McKinney. He's a comic that started a little bit after me in Boston. He's got a new comedy special, Justin McKinney, Parentally Challenged. It's available on Amazon Prime and iTunes. You can go to justinmckinney.com. But I remember this guy because years ago, he used to be a cop. And years

ago, he was with my first agent, Showbiz Talk. and he had a couple of deals and he did some stuff and he was a cop. And she had another guy who was a transit cop. There was a couple of cops around doing comedy. But his story, I didn't know it, but I'd run into him up in New Hampshire when I played up there and we talked for a while. And I thought it would be interesting. And it is. So he's on the show. Also, wanted to tell you people in San Francisco,

sort of trust the movie that I've been talking ad nauseum about because I'm in it, and I think it's funny. Look, I do a lot of things, people, and I think you know me by now. There are times where I won't plug myself. You know why? Because I forget. There's a theater there in the castro called the no it's not in the castro that's the castro theater the roxy is just i believe if i let's see let's play this game does mark have memories of san francisco

i believe the roxy is somewhere on 16th and valencia in the mission ish. That's what I'm thinking. Can I get someone to check that please? I'll wait. Oh, I guess I got to check. Hold on a second. Yep. Uh-huh. And Valencia. Yep. Six. I did it. My memory worked. Oh my God. Play the music. Play the music. Memory's not so great. So that's on the 4th and 8th, August 4th and 8th at the Roxy Theater. There's only two screenings, and it's a nice little theater. And I'm just giving you the heads up to go. Getting a lot of good feedback for the movie.

I'm proud of the movie. I think it's funny. And it's not just me that's funny. The whole fucking thing is funny. And eventually I'll stop talking about it in this little phase of my life where everybody's excited and there's fancy reviews in the New Yorker, in the New York Times, Washington Post, Chicago Trib, Variety, just everybody raving about this thing. A month from now, I'll just feel like none of it ever happened. But for the time being, I would go see it.

Glow, the third season of Glow, which I'm on, I play a role on that show. Glow drops August 9th. And you know what else happens August 9th? I am 20 years sober. Am I gloating? Maybe a little. Am I, do I have, am I humble about it? Not really. 20 fucking years. I, I, yeah, I did it, but it's not done day to time. And I do, I do in all honesty, I do get a lot of email from people who are struggling with this

stuff. It is possible and life does get better. Look, I'm dealing with the end of the world. Fine. I don't have to drink over it. I I'll keep, I can eat over better. Look, I'm dealing with the end of the world fine. I don't have to drink over it. I can eat over it. I can jerk off over it. I'll jerk off all over the end of the world. All over it. Yeah, that's how I win.

But I don't have to drink over it. Okay? You got to do what you got to do. Intentional cognitive dissonanceance some people call it belief yet it's very difficult it's very difficult to know what's going on hey it's awfully hot you know i can barely breathe out here that's all right things are okay just go to the gym the intentional cognitive dissonance there's something rich about that area of thought where you're aware of the horror, but yet you still have to have a life. So tonight I'm going to be in Raleigh, North Carolina. Theoretically, I'm here, but I'm not really because this is like a day or two before.

It's just the way this is going right now. But I can't tell you I'm excited because I'm renting a car in North Carolina and I got a thing for pottery. I think some of you know that. I just do. I don't know what it is. Maybe it's an old hippie thing. Maybe it's an authenticity thing. Maybe it's just the sort of fundamentals of craftsmanship and the individuality of the process and the sort of ancient art of it all. But I like nice pottery or just practical pottery. I just like pots that are thrown by hand or mashed and made anyway. I just like ceramics. And somebody hit me to this area in North Carolina called Seagrove. I know nothing about it, but they were just sort of like, you got to go to Seagrove for pottery. I did a little research.

It seems like a good deal of the handmade pottery coming out of the United States comes out of this area. I don't know why I didn't do that kind of research. I don't know if the clay is good there or what, but I'm going to take a trip out there because I've got this dream, folks. I've got a pottery dream. I've got a pottery vision. I've got this large cabinet in my house that has a glass front to it. It's an old craftsman built in. And I think at one time it might have been used for china or fancy stuff. But in my vision, it's filled with all kinds of uniquely individual pieces of hand-thrown pottery. Cups, large bowls, maybe a stack of plates, maybe a pitcher or two that theoretically i would collect over a lifetime

but i don't know if that i think it's a little late for that because i haven't been collecting pottery for a lifetime but i'm going to buy a lifetime's worth of pottery in seagrove north carolina that's my plan i don't even know what they have there but i in my in my dream, I'm going to go from place to place, maybe 97 places, 92, maybe 6, 12, 19. And I might go to a 20th, but I think I've got enough. I played that out. But I figure I can get a lifetime's worth of pottery and even make up a big lie about my experience accumulating it over a lifetime from one trip to Seagrove. So if you're a potter in Seagrove, let me know and I'll come by and check your shit out because I'm going to do that. I think I'm probably going to do it tomorrow, Friday.

I don't know. I don't know. I've got some touching emails here. I got one. Subject line, two of us. Hey, Mark, I just wanted to reach out to you with a story about my dad. Hopefully you have time to read this. I'll try to make it short. Don't worry, this isn't entirely random. It involves you, too. too. He passed last winter and today would have been his birthday. A long time ago in an administration far, far away, I started listening to WTF around episode 400 something. I enjoy the way you often approach interviews as a fan and try to figure out where the fuck people come from. Around this time, my father was getting older and as a complication of diabetes,

his vision started disappearing due to cataracts. Since the health care in this country was and still is pretty what the fuck, it took over a year to get him in for the most routine surgery in America so he could see again. During that time, he was getting pretty bummed out, not being able to drive, work, or anything. So I recommended this cool podcast I was listening to. He didn't know what a podcast was, but he did recognize your name. He'd always liked you as a comic. I got him set up and he had enough peripheral vision to navigate the app and go on neighborhood walks. He really bit in, Mark.

Within a week, he had subscribed and was chewing through the back catalog, telling me stories from episodes I had missed and spending the day walking around with you in his head. His mood was massively improved by getting to engage with you and your guests. It was a perfect thing for him in that moment and I got to share something I was really excited about and experience it together with him. Through the years we geeked out about big celebrities like Obama and Julia Louis-Dreyfus, and he would replay some of the showcase songs on repeat. When I went through his phone one last time this winter, I saw he had also still been listening. He got to hear your interview with Sir Paul, who was one of his favorite people in the universe. Anyway, I miss my dad, but I thought it might brighten the world a little bit to remember a time when we all made each other happy thanks mark justin thank you justin thank you for

sharing that because it's important these are important things you know try try to like and this is coming from me and those of you who've been listening a long time if you're old and your parents are still alive and they're really old and you're holding on to something if it's not that bad you know get over it and try to, you know, appreciate the time they have left. That's all. This one's funny, a little dark, but I think Donald would appreciate it. Subject line, I didn't think you would ever come around.

God, it makes me so mad what Donald is right about this sort of shit. Still, glad you did come around. If I was still alive, I'd love to be on the show. Cheers, the ghost of Walter Becker. Is that wrong? Come on. I think it's funny.

It's pretty funny. Okay, look, let's get on with it. I'll be in Raleigh tonight. Go to WTFpod.com slash tour. There's a lot of dates coming up. Austin, Houston, Dallas, Detroit, San Francisco, D.C., Atlanta, Minneapolis, Chicago, Nashville, Philadelphia. A lot of stuff coming up. And I didn't even mention some.

Look. All right. So Justin McKinney, as I said before, I knew him as a comic. He started a little bit after me. The generation after me in Boston. He as a comic. He started a little bit after me, the generation after me in Boston. He was a cop, and it's a unique story. And I ran into him in New Hampshire when I did a gig there a couple years ago,

and we decided we would do this, and he was here, and we did it. He's got a new comedy special called Justin McKinney Parentally Challenged. You can get it on Amazon Prime, iTunes. You can go to his website at justinmckinney.com. And this is me talking to New Hampshire's own Justin McKinney. can't get an ice rink on uber eats but ice tea and ice cream yes we can deliver that uber eats get almost almost anything order now product availability may vary by region see app for details death is in our air this year's most anticipated series fx's shogun only on disney

plus we live and we die we control nothing beyond that an epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by james clvel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+.

18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. So, Justin, I noticed that you spell your name peculiarly. What is that name, Justin, with an O? I just noticed that today when I went to Google search. You just noticed that. Did I put in Justin like a regular spelling? Normal, yeah. And then it comes up, Justone.

Yeah. It's been a curse, and I've talked about it on stage, because it's such a curse, especially now with social media. Well, I'm Mark with a C. I know, I know. But at least if you say, and part of what I talk about is, if you say Mark with a C, you know where the C goes, right? It goes at the end of your name.

Sure, you go Justin with an O. They don't know where it is, so people go J-O-S-T-I. No one knows where the O is supposed to go. So I really have to say Justin, J-U-S-T-O-N. I have to spell the whole name out. What is the history of the Justin with an O? Where does that come from? Do you want to know?

All honesty, I asked my dad about, I don't know, 20 years ago, 25 years ago. It was a huge pain in my ass. And he told me, this is a true story, he goes, because you were born just on time. Come on. I swear to God, that's what he tells me. My dad is like trying to be the funny guy, just on time. And I literally, so on stage, I'll talk about it. I'll go, it could have been just in time.

It's the same dumb joke. Yeah. Like he got the joke wrong. Yeah. And he did that to me. And it's been a nightmare. I'm not even lying. Like if I say to people, oh, follow me on Instagram.

If I don't tell you how to spell my name and you search Justin with an I, like on Instagram, the Instagram search will not find me. So it's not like someone's going to be like, you know what? I really got to find that guy. Let me try again. Right. People aren't going to try twice. Right.

So it's become a little bit, I really believe social media, I would have 50% more followers if my name was spelled with an I. And we couldn't have foreseen these problems. No, he couldn't have. He couldn't have. And you know what the worst part is, Mark? It's not like they didn't give you enough obstacles to deal with. Now the name bites you in the ass.

My dad texts me, but he'll spell it with an I. It drives me nuts. Because of the spell check. I don't know if it's because of the spell check. Yeah? Of course. All right. What do you think he's doing?

I don't know. It just annoys me. No, of course it's a spell check he just doesn't like it's hard on the texting when you want to correct spell check it's a pain in the ass like there's no who uses the word ducking that much do you know when you put fucking in it's always going to correct the ducking but it's like that no one yet why just put fucking i think you can program your phone to use the words that you want can't you to learn i think so but i don't know how to do that either so i'm trying to figure out when like you're not my generation of boston you're like the one after me right yeah i started with um like bill burr and patrice o'Neill, Gary Gullman. Those guys were all kind of down there, mid-90s.

Okay, yeah, because I was there in 88. I started working. I came in second in the riot in 88. And you started working in 90 what? It was like the mid-90s. Really? Yeah, I mean, the first time I ever went on stage was the early- I forget how old I am.

I'm just old. I'm like an old guy now. The weird thing about Boston, and I think it's a little different than when I started there, is that there is a, I don't know, it's not the word indigenous, but there is a regional comedy business where guys, they never leave there. Yep. And it's always been that way. Now, I'm not putting you in that category

or saying that you chose to be that category, but it is a real thing that there was, I think it's really the only place like that where you could go when I started and you could make a living doing comedy at one-nighters for life, it used to be. So there were guys like, like you know that's how i started but i think it's the only part of the country where that really is the case you can

live in boston and at the time there was like god knows maybe 100 150 one-nighters where you could go out and work work as a comic yeah i i think it's really hard to make a living now just doing the boston scene yeah a lot of guys have second jobs. Really? A lot of the headlines that are headlining the one-nighters and stuff, a lot of them have second jobs. Uh-huh. I've been lucky to do, I do theaters up in the Portsmouth Music Hall where I saw you

that night in Portsmouth last. That's one that I do. So I try to do some of those which make it work for me up there where I don't need another job, but it's tough to do. It's not like it used to be. We joke that the money in the middle money back in the day was more than headliner money now. But there wasn't even middles when I was coming up in Boston. It was a two-man show. You'd go out with a guy that you'd have to drive usually or meet there, do a half hour, they'd do 45 and you're out. Georgeald will juggle angrily and you're gone

george mcdonald oh my gosh i used to love when he'd take out those balls because you knew he didn't want to take off those balls i didn't even know him i didn't even know he did the balls he does when he has to he used to when he had to do 45 he'd do about 35 of material and then he'd take that little bag out with the balls and it wasn't even that spectacular juggling but it was just sort of like i gotta close with the here come the balls i've i've got a george mcdonald story oh really um nice guy one of the greatest guys a great guy i was when i had just started my dad and i and i didn't know we might have got into all this but my dad was a homeless alcoholic for yeah we're gonna get into that yeah he was you know was the town you know i'd drunk right he was that he was the He was the town, you know, drunk, right?

He was the drunk guy in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. Oh, right. Living on the streets. So you're still there. You stayed there. Yeah, so one night, I'm just starting to do stand-up. I'd only been in two or three years, and there was a show in Portsmouth at this place.

I was in the middle spot, and George was headlining. Yeah. No balls? I don't remember balls. All right. But maybe this is why I didn't remember balls. So I do my 20 minutes, whatever I did, and I knew everybody in the room. I knew everybody came, you know, because I'm from there.

And the show went okay. I get off stage. While George is on, my dad, who weighs 140 pounds, long gray hair, gray beard, you know, really skinny, walks up on stage and tries to grab the mic out of George McDonald's hands. Shit-faced. Shit-faced. Yeah.

Goes to grab the mic. The bouncers come up and grab my dad and drag him off. And George McDonald just looks right over and just says, huh, looks like Santa went on a binge this year. Huge laugh. Bigger than any laugh I got. Yeah. And that was me starting stand-up.

Did you tell them it was your dad? They all knew it was my dad they all knew it was my dad oh because because they knew me they knew it was my dad like that was but when you say george mcdonald it's like that's your memory immediately that's immediately what i think of and that line he came up with was great and i yeah you know i had to laugh but i used to get annoyed you know that you know with my dad that would annoy me i'd always worry about that happening that's that since i was a kid that embarrassment highly annoying george mcdonald used to host the open mic when i was in college With my dad, that would annoy me. I'd always worry about that happening. Since I was a kid, that embarrassment. Highly annoying. George McDonnell used to host the open mic when I was in college at Stitches. It was called Comedy Hell.

And he was the guy that a lot of us first started doing open mics with because he hosted one. And it was just a nightmare of a show. He was great and always nice and supportive. But it was small audiences, and he called it comedy hell, and he would play it up. That was the first place I was on stage, Stitches. The original one in the Paradise?

No, the one near Fenway. That place was terrible. That one near Fenway, it used to be another place before that that was cursed. That little block right there across from Father's 2, it used to be a fucking horrible bar. No one went into. Called The Ark.

And you just walk by it. I lived there. I was in college there for four years. I never set foot in the fucking place. Like who goes in there? And then it becomes Stitches. Oh man. Yeah.

And you had to walk all the way in the back. And there was that back room. It seemed like it would be nice. But I'm telling you. There was something about that location. Yeah. So Portsmouth. I feel like there was a gig up there when i was coming up with that maybe robin horton booked what was the gig in portsmouth i know there was a gig there i think you're

thinking of um um ah man i just had it in my head the one in ports oh the speakeasy yeah it was a roller skating rink that's it they used to used to have a one-nighter there? Yeah, that's what I actually saw. Joe Rogan there was opening for Vinny Favorito. Oh, my God. Way back in the day. That's it. That was it.

The speakeasy. The speakeasy. Was it called that? I don't remember. It was a roller skating rink. Yeah, that was, but that is such- And then they did comedy, I think, on the off nights maybe. In the bar area?

Yes. Yes. I mean, those were the gigs. You're saying that like it shouldn't even shock me, and it doesn't. Oh, yeah, it was a roller skating rink. That's the point. That's it. And the weird thing is, I don't remember it being a roller skating rink, but I remember

there was a gig up there. It's fucked up. Yeah. But that was how we did it back then. So you start in Boston. Okay, let's get into the because i don't know portsmouth portsmouth is it portsmouth portsmouth portsmouth yep yep it's spelled portsmouth though yes it is yeah yeah yeah so i don't like i know new hampshire and i and i know it from driving up there and it's

pretty but i remember like i i'm pretty sure like there were a couple of cops. You and Joe DiResta, right? John. John DiResta. John DiResta, yes. Was a Boston cop. He was a NYPD transit cop. Oh, he was a New York transit cop. Yes.

Right, and he got a deal with my old agent, Ruthann Secunda. Who was my old agent. She was the one. She was the one that would get you the first deal, and then that was it. She changed my life and ruined my life at you were so you were a cop so you're growing up in portsmouth like how like what's the situation how many siblings you have three brothers really older uh one younger two older yeah and uh my dad yeah and uh my mom passed away when i was six oh really yeah and when i was living in portsmouth I was going to elementary school there.

So wait, now your brothers are older? Two older, one younger. All right. So there's four of you and your mom passed away? Mom passed away. What happened? Brain aneurysm. Oh my God.

Yeah. Just out of nowhere. Do you remember? Yeah, because I was with her. She was volunteering at a school fair. It was when they have the balloons, the tables, all the, you know, the games. Oh, my God, yeah. Yeah, and she just collapsed and, like, started holding her head and was screaming.

And, yeah, I was right there. And it's, yeah, they put her in the ambulance. Yeah, it was, you know, two months ago, I went back to that elementary school. Just out of, I hadn't been back. Well, I hadn't been back since I left. I was there through fifth grade just out of, I hadn't been back. Well, I hadn't been back since I left. I was there through fifth grade. Yeah.

But I hadn't been back since I, you know, been an adult. And, you know, the weirdest thing is I go to see my mom's grave and from the grave site, the school's right there.

Oh my God. Like, you see the grave, the school's right, right there. So, I just pulled into the school and I just walked,

hasn't changed. I just looked in the window like, and like, that's the spot, you know? Really? And I haven't since I've, my whole life is the first time I've gone back.

And it's right, it's in town though? It's right in town? It's, it's just off town a little bit, but it's just the, you know, the lobby area. I just, it was, the doors were locked. I just went in and I kind of looked in and like, that was the area the tables were, that's where she fell. And I don't know what drew me to that. I went to see her grave and I just saw the school and I'm like, oh, let me take a ride over. So yeah. Really? That's, that's so, it's sad. Yeah. Yeah.

It was, you know, and my dad, you know, was left with, you know, the four kids. You know what I mean? What did he do? That January. He had a telephone answering service at the time, which was, you know, before pagers and cell phones, you know, the old switchboard kind. Sure. Sure.

So like if a doc was on call or something. Yeah, yep, yep. After hours. Yep, he ran that and he was big into, he was buying real estate. In Portsmouth? Yeah, he owned a bunch of, at one time he owned a bunch of properties. Yeah. I mean, if he could have held it together, it would have been worth a lot of money.

What happened to the properties? He just lost them all through, you know, not managing it, not paying taxes. I mean, he lost the house I lived in. You know what I mean? I mentioned that. So lost them all through you know not managing it not paying taxes i mean he lost the house i lived in you know what i mean i mentioned that so it just went you know well when so all right so you guys are doing okay for a while well um my aunt moves in my mom's sister ends up with my dad like they ended up in a relationship from the get-go or just like she stepped in to help the kids stepped She stepped in to help and, you know, and she definitely kept things together, right? The glue, you know, to make sure we had power and, you know, electricity and water and all that stuff. And they ended up in a relationship. Yeah. And how old were you when you knew that was happening?

I was probably like eight, eight, nine years old. Did it just seem natural or was it weird? I was probably like eight, eight, nine years old. Did it just seem natural or was it weird? It was definitely weird. I mean, I was aware that I was living a little bit different than my friends, you know? Yeah. It wasn't the same. Did they get married?

They never got married. But it just sort of happened. It just happened. And my dad drank and she drank and the fighting. Always? So drinking was always part of it. Drinking was something. And I used to joke that having two alcoholics is like having two dogs. They keep each other company.

Right. A lot of times they were fighting. They're actually giving away together when you go pick them up at the shelter. Yeah. Yeah, if you're going to take the man, you got to take his wife. Yeah. Because they belong together. That's right.

You want two of them. Yeah, you got to have two in the house. together. That's right. You want two of them. Yeah, you got to have two in the house. Trust me, you're going to want two of them. One of them is no good. No good because it'll drain the whole family. Two, they beat the shit out of each other and it works out. Yeah, they distract. You'll thank us.

Yeah. So, okay, so that's going on right away. Your dad was always a boozy. I remember it from the time i can remember yes i believe that losing his wife she was 29 years old um having the four kids i mean i mean i believe that didn't help right that probably so he was this a catholic situation no just just they just kept coming the kids yeah it was just they did you know in i don't know but I had heard that, you know, birth control might have been what caused. You know, the dose that's one of the side effects is blood clots.

Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think back then it was like the dose, and I think maybe. Really? I think. I mean, I remember hearing that at one point. That's possible, I guess. So I think they wanted, I think four was enough.

I think it was smoking and birth control pills. Like, you know, did she smoke? She did. Mm. Yeah, I think four was enough. I think it was smoking and birth control pills. Did she smoke? She did. Yeah, I think she did. I think that. We could research this, but there's no time. No. But I mean, that sort of sticks in my head that if he smoked on certain birth control,

well, either way, it's sad. So your dad, he's broken up about it, and the drinking got worse right away. It was always kind of there It was there I could remember every night He'd sit and sip Out of a little shot glass in the dark Kind of by himself

Listened to the police scanner Very paranoid For what? He would get in trouble a lot My dad had a history. But wasn't he, when did the business start to, when did it all start to fall apart? I mean, you were six and things were okay, right? He had, yeah, but I think there was drinking then too.

Sure. From what I had heard. I think it was still there. But yes, things definitely started to go off the rails after that. The business was, I don't what how well the business did after fifth grade we moved right over the bridge into kittery main right after elementary school yeah so i just move over there so i would have been sixth or seventh grade he got mad at the bank for uh not giving him a loan or something so he went down there in the middle of the day and threw a brick through the front window of the bank

so it's like that kind of stuff like like through my childhood, there's always worried that what was he going to do to embarrass me? Like there was that I lived with a lot. Like I didn't want my, anyone at school or friends to know. And true story, my friend Alan lived across the street from the bank and he called me up and like saw it happen. He goes, is your dad home? And I'm like, he goes, I think I just saw him throw a brick through the bank in his underwear.

And I literally, and the joke part of me, it goes to, yeah, he said he had some errands to do. You know what I mean? You said he had some errands to run. But the cops would come to the house. They would look for them. One time they had to raise the drawbridge because it was over the river so that he wouldn't escape.

So there was a lot of that growing up. So he would sit and drink alone listening to the police scanner to see if they were coming to get him. I believe so. And he would sit and drink alone, listening to the police scanner to see if they were coming to get him. I believe so. And he would go up. If he thought he heard his name, he would go out in the back up in the woods. I remember that happening. Really?

Yes. And let me just say, he's been sober for 11 years now. I gave him his chip, his 10-year chip. I just want to say that now. Yeah. So if anyone's listening going, you know. You can say it's possible to recover. I mean, he was, we thought he was going to die on the streets.

There's no doubt about it. So after I got out of high school, he lost the house and all that and left my aunt. I mean, I think he. Did he ever do jail time? Oh, he went to jail a lot. Yeah. Like just like a lot of overnights, protective custody and that kind of stuff. Like, you know, oh, you drinking and driving.

He was arrested for drunk driving at eight in the morning while on his way to court for drunk driving. Yeah. Like that's, I mean, that kind of stuff like you know oh you're drinking and driving he was arrested for drunk driving at eight in the morning while on his way to court for drunk driving yeah like that's i mean that kind of stuff i just i was just hiking this morning and i was coming down the mountain this is at eight o'clock in the morning and i saw two dudes one of them had a big thing of water the other one had a six-pack and they were hiking up the mountain at eight in the morning and i thought like well you know at least you're not driving. You know what I mean? Yes. If you're going to morning drink, make a day, take a hike.

Yeah. I mean, my dad's lucky he didn't kill anybody. And that was a huge fear as a kid. We're talking drinking. I mean, he would have a screwdriver in the cup holder, like in drive. Right. I mean, you know, back then, drinking and driving, they would actually drink and drive. Right. They weren't even, not that they were just drunk, they're drinking they would actually drink and drive. They weren't even just drunk.

They were drinking while they're driving. Sure. So that was just, yeah. So when you graduate high school, then the relationship with your aunt falls apart and what? Yeah, once all the kids grew up, he lost the house. He didn't pay the taxes. It was boarded up. For a while, it was literally a bunch of, I'd say derelicts or homeless people all living in there.

With him? Like doing drugs and drinking. Was he there too? He was still there. Yep. And it was, there was a fire like in one of the bedrooms and they just took, we had this pool that was in the back that hadn't been open for years. Yeah.

And they would scoop water up with buckets and put the fire out themselves. Never called the fire department. It was a really- And your dad was still living there? He was still there at the time. This is when he was going definitely downhill on his way to homelessness. This is when he was- So, but this his way to homelessness. This is when he was. But this is a small town, like you said, right?

So he's notorious. I mean, the guy. They love him, and everybody loves him. Really? The town all loves him. People would bump into me, your dad's the best. And in the back of my head, there's a little part of me going, yeah, I love my dad. And my dad is my biggest fan in the world

so yes and he well i think he always was the fan but it's just it was just it's a disease and i you know when i i try to look at what he you know the four kids and being left with that and that kind of triggered it and then this all goes but did everybody turn out all right i mean how did it how many yeah i think we i think we're doing good, I think we're doing good. Yeah. I think we're doing good. And you never got the bug? No, and I drink socially. Did you go the other way? Did you go the control freak path? I went the other way in the sense I became a cop.

You know? Oh, God. I mean, he didn't like cops and part of the reason that made me such a good cop was because I treated in my interview I got hired at 19 by the way the youngest cop I think they'd ever hired up there

and I was really mature in the interview well you gotta be when you're living in chaos you gotta go pick your dad up at the fucking, I remember- Well, you got to be when you're living in chaos. I see. Yeah. You got to go pick your dad up at the fucking jail. I had to. It was, I remember saying to them that, you know, I treat everybody like you're my dad and my whole family, by the way, I've all run into the cops. But anyway, like you're my dad and you don't like cops, I want to change your mind.

Like that was really how I went about it. I never had that big badge, the power, never your mind. Like, that was really how I went about it. I never had that big badge, the power, never had that. I was always de-escalating. Now, mind you, it was in rural Maine. There were two of us for 500 square miles. So you had no backup. So when you have no backup, you learn to de-escalate.

You know, you didn't, you know. But also, I'd imagine that most of those calls are domestic issues, right? Yeah, a lot of domestic issues. And, you know, my dad would fight with the police. Like, we saw him get pepper sprayed, I mean, right in our living room. I mean, this kind of stuff. So I could remember going to domestics thinking, this guy's going to attack me. And then very few people attack you.

It's very rare. Like, I thought that was the norm. At least one of them is grateful you showed up, right? Yeah. Yeah, like, you know, to de-escalate. They probably wanted to de-escalate, I would think, a lot of times. A lot of times, yeah. But what's the impulse?

I mean, do you remember when you decided to be a cop? I mean. I do. What drove that? Well, I definitely, Chips was like my favorite, one of my favorite shows growing up, Chips. Sure. And I had such an ethical mind that I used to not like punch because he used to flirt. And I used to think that was like,

ah, you know, he's a cop. You know, I like John was like the professional. So I really was like John, right? Right. And by the way, when I would watch chips, like I would be watching an episode of chips and the real cops would show up at my house. Come on.

I'm not even lying to you. It's total. And they would come in. I remember one time the dog was loose. And so the neighbors called the police about our dog being loose. So I let the cop in. And I'll never forget. This cop was the nicest.

He was so nice to me. He's talking to me. I'm asking him about stuff on his belt. I mean, this to me was like, oh, a policeman. He was so nice. My dad comes barreling down the stairs going, get the fuck out of the house. This cop, like, had to backpedal. And like, all right.

And he shut the door. And he's like, get your dog. You got to get your dog in. And it was, and I just saw that. And I, as a little kid, I ended up, I thought to myself, my dad's wrong here. Like, I mean, who's,

what's going on here? Like who's right and who's wrong? And I didn't get it. So that was my dad's, that's what drove me to be the kind of cop that I was because it was just, I didn't understand it.

Like I really looked, oh, so what made me become a cop? So I was going to be a private investigator in high school. And I asked my guidance counselor to set up a job shadow with a private investigator. And they couldn't find one. So they go, but we found this police officer. It was a Kittery police officer. This officer Toulouse was his name.

And do you want to go shadow with him? Do a ride along? And I go, you know what? I'll do it because you set it up. I'll go do it. But I did not think that I was really going to become a cop. And when I left that night, that guy's crew, watching this guy, he was really professional. Great.

Just out there talking about how, you know, if anything happens, like he's the, you know, he's the one who's going to show up. And I looked at him like they saved the day. Like cops are good. I've always looked at it through my eyes that way. And when I got out of there, just that whole idea of serving and being out there and helping people, and he was going on calls and he's watching them. I just watched that and goes, you know what? I think I want to do that. You know what I mean? And that was kind of, that was it. So I went to college um, you know, college and where, where are your brothers? And where were they in all this?

Are you all sitting around watching TV? I mean, you sort of, I mean, did they, did they get out of the house cause they were older or what? Yeah. Well,

the two that were older had kind of left and, the younger one was still there and things really went downhill. So my aunt brought in two of her kids too. So there were really six kids, two cousins, my, you know, four.

Were they bad seeds or were they all right? Um, everyone was kind of all right, but, um all right, but two of my brothers have been, and they're great now, but two of my brothers have been arrested for resistant arrest. They fight with the cops. They like to fight cops, which I never understood this. What do you mean? They grew up with it.

Learned behavior. Exactly. There you go. There you go. Right. But my aunt, I remember one day comes home, and I'm probably in high. So, but my aunt, my aunt, I remember one day comes home and I'm probably in high school. She goes, oh my God, I kicked that cop right in the nuts. And I remember thinking it was like, I mean, this is these stories, like we're all,

they've all, you know, my brother. The cops were the enemy. The cops are the enemy. And it was just, and that was how I grew up. And then, you know, so I, in my own little way, tried to change that, you know. But it's interesting because own little way, tried to change that, you know. But it's interesting because of the nature of it being a relatively small town and everybody knows each other, you know, the cops didn't beat the shit out of your dad. No, they had to, no. And they were sort of like, this is the local, you know, drunk lunatic. They would have to pepper spray him. Like I said, you know, and, you know, I could remember, you know, one of the, bumping into a tick. They would have to pepper spray him. Like I said, I could remember

bumping into a cop. A lot of times I would bump into them. When I became a cop too, I would get calls over the radio. We have a warrant of arrest. It's for your dad. I'd bump into a guy. I got your dad for drunk driving. He couldn't even get out of the car. Do you want to come deal with him? They feel bad that they had to arrest him, but they

had to arrest him. And then you'd get on the way to the end and go, all right, I'm coming. Yeah, well, sometimes, yeah. Sometimes I would get him, and when there was a warrant, I had another guy, another deputy go over and get him. I just, I would get annoyed. You can't serve your dad a warrant? I mean, I could, but it was like, I just felt,

I went over with the guy, I just let him take him. You know, it was like, because it just, I was, you know, I was aggravated with him at that time. And, you know, I like because it just i was you know it was i was aggravated with him at that time and and you know i couldn't be a cop understandably you don't have to feel bad about that in my home in the town of kittery where i now was living and went to high school i knew i couldn't be a cop there because i would be dealing with them every day so i got hired at the sheriff's office which patrols the york county but the kittery isn't one of their towns because I patrolled the small towns that didn't have their own PD. What did your dad say when you said you were going to be a cop?

I mean, it was funny. He didn't go to my graduation at the police academy. He's like, are there going to be cops there? I mean, it was just, he is a funny guy. And I got a lot of humor out of him because he is a funny guy. So when they hired me at the county, you have to go before county commissioners, the chief had told me that one of the commissioners

brought up the fact that, you know, his dad is, you know, this guy, almost like that was going to keep me from getting hired. So I found out about that after. So that kind of stuff, it's like, all right, so imagine here I am a cop, like he's kind of getting in the way of that. And here I am going to be this really good cop.

I'd be an asset to the community. And that almost stopped me from doing that. And then when I become a stand-up, the whole George McDonald story we talked about, he's doing that. So there was aggravating, as much as I loved my dad, and he'd see me and be like, Josh, turn you, but it was the annoyance of that. It was definitely aggravating. But, you know, it was the annoyance of that.

It was definitely aggravating. But so when you become a cop, how long before he becomes like this homeless drunk? It was pretty immediate because I was 19 and it was, you know, I could remember getting a call. One night he was walking over the bridge from Kittery into Portsmouth and he got shot with a pellet gun. Someone drove by and shot him with a pellet gun. And I remember saying to my partner at the time, I'm like, the only drive-by shooting ever in Maine. And it's my dad. It hits my dad. And it's a pellet gun. And to this day, you know who my dad thinks did it? Who? The mob. They're using pellet guns. He thinks he was tied up with the mob. He still thinks it was some guy in the mafia, he's telling me. Because he was

doing the real estate deals and all that stuff and there was some shady characters and he did siding aluminum siding back in the day he's been so it's sort of like the the way you're framing it it's sort of like uh it's it's like mayberry as dark as mayberry could get do you know what i mean like it's pellet guns town drunks and police scammers like there's still an element to it where it's like, it's a sad story, but it's not a horror story. No, and it ended well. Thank God.

You know what I mean? It did. So looking back now, we can laugh. And I got to tell you, just a month ago, we're at my brother's house for a party. And me and my brothers all get around, and we're just talking stories about growing up and about how we had big rats in the house. You did?

Yeah, my dad would say, well, the good thing is if you have rats, that means you've got no mice. You know what I mean? That was his logic. So we're going back and forth with all these stories, and my dad, right, laughing the whole time. He's such a great soul. He really is.

He's just laughing at the whole thing, and we're all laughing at it. We all love him. And then he just goes, he goes, look, let me just say this. And we just stop and look at him. What's he going to say, right? He literally says, it wasn't as bad as it was. And we just bust out laughing. And I go, that should be a title of my book.

It's like, it wasn't as bad as it was. And it was like, that's his, and he makes us laugh. And he does. And he really is. And now, I mean, the wall in his house is all me. Like articles. And I mean, it's like, he looks like a stalker. So when, okay, so you're being the cop your dad's in and out of uh i mean you know if he if he's 11 years

sober i mean it's pretty long run yeah yeah it was a long run and we thought he would die on the streets we can't believe it but what what is the process of that so you're a cop and your dad's this homeless drunk and there's nothing you can do you can't get him into a shelter you just have what you can't there's nothing you can do it just was the way it was right i think it's like you know he for a while and i'm not he lived in my brother's closet like walk-in closet for a couple years but he was a couple years for a couple years did your brother know oh yeah that would have been great if he didn't oh yeah he knew yeah he just got a little mattress pad in there, and he literally was living there for a while. So we always offer it to them to take him in.

But at the end of the day, he had to get to that point where I want help. And he went into rehab once and fell off the wagon, and then he got back in. But everybody would serve him in town? Like they knew him? Oh, yeah. Was he begging for money and everything? He wasn't a beggar. Nope, he wasn't a beggar nope he wasn't a beggar but everybody loved him everybody liked him but i could remember

in the newspaper like this is the kind of stuff that you know as his kid that you'd see they would put there was an article in the paper one day there was a line of fans waiting for jimmy buffett tickets and they called uh you know parrot heads i think right jimmy buffett fans and there's my dad with his you know homeless bag he's you know he's been on the newspaper he, you know, Parrot Heads, I think, right, Jimmy Buffett? Parrot Heads, yeah. And there's my dad with his, you know, homeless bag. He's, you know, he's been on the newspaper. He's, you know, cover the paper about homeless stories and stuff. He's got this bag on his back like this, and the article said something like,

the headline was something like, Parrot Heads Get Tips From A Pro, like on how to, like, camp outside. Like, you know what I mean? They basically were calling my dad homeless in the local paper. Like, that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? It's like, you know what I mean? They basically were calling my dad homeless in the local paper. Right. Like that kind of stuff. You know what I mean? It's like, you know.

Town drunk. Classic. Yeah. It was. Yeah. And I remember when my sister-in-law was in town, we were out drinking in Portsmouth one night. It was about 1230, one in the morning.

And there's my dad sitting on a bench, no shirt, just his pants on, a gallon of milk and like a scarf. And he's just like this. He's like, Justin. And he comes like that. And he comes, you know, happy go, happy drunk of milk, and like a scarf. And he's just like this. He's like, Justin! And he comes, like, there. And he comes, you know, happy drunk. Hey, Justin, you wise ass. He'd always say this little wise ass thing.

And my sister-in-law literally goes, who's that? And my wife was like, that's Justin's father. Like, it was, I mean, he was that guy that you would see just out. I mean, he lived in the pay toilet at the parking garage. You probably parked in that garage. Oh, my God. When you went to, he lived in the pay toilet. When I played the speakeasy?

No, no, that's the other end of town. Oh, you mean when I did the Portsmouth. The Portsmouth Music Hall. It's right around the corner from the Portsmouth Music Hall. He lived in the garage. He lived in the pay toilet of that garage.

But I mean, how does, is there some element of heartbreak to all of it? I mean, like, I mean, I guess he was a town drunk and he was a happy drunk and he was a character, but I mean,

it must have been sad as hell for, you know, or do you just get over that and you just sort of you know look i mean i've gone to see therapists you know in 2010 or 11 i went to see the first one i mean there's definitely stuff underneath with what's going on in my life that i know is there yeah um but you know that's why i became a comedian right it's humor we deal with it with humor we laugh at it when did you decide to do that? I had been a cop for a few years and it was just something I just wanted to try. Now, what happened to your aunt?

She's still around. Oh. But they just kind of, you know, they broke it off. Did she get sober? She, yeah, she's older now. So it was like, yeah, I don't think she's drinking anymore now that you mentioned that. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think she's drinking anymore, now that you mention that. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't think she's drinking anymore either. Is the family still close to some degree? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, we're close. They don't talk. Oh, your old man. Yeah, they don't talk, but I just saw her

and probably talked to her for five minutes, which is the most I've talked to her in about five years, actually, just a couple weeks ago. But everyone's, you know, like your old man's got a relationship with your kids and your brother's kids. Yeah, my dad now is like, I mean, you know, my kids who are now nine and 11 years old don't know him any different.

Yeah. He shows up their birthday, every birthday with balloons. And my dad, when my dad was first in rehab for the first time, he had an index card. And he said to me, I went and visited him at rehab, and he wanted to know my date of birth and my phone number. Yeah. Like, and like, and he had me and all my brothers and he wrote it all on an index card.

Like, I mean, you talk about the birthday. Right. You know what I mean? Like, cause he didn't even, and my dad in this funny way, people will ask, oh, how old are your kids now? And he'll say, ah, it's hard to keep track. It changes every year. You know what I mean?

That's his, that's his line, you know? Um, but, uh, but so now my kids, he shows up and he's got the balloons. He used to be a karate, black belt in karate, my dad. Really? Yeah, so he teaches my kids now karate lessons. He'll come over. No kidding. How old is he?

He's 77 now. Wow. Yeah, good shape. He walks every day. He'll still credit the fact that he walks. He's always walked. Even when he was drunk, he was walking. He was homeless. Walking. He'll still credit the fact that he walks. He's always walked. Even when he was drunk, he was walking. Well, he was homeless.

Walking. He was homeless. What else is he going to do? But he made sure he got his walk in. And one night he was going to the bathroom on the side of the road. He was hit by a snowplow. What? Like that's – he ended up in the hospital.

Like, yeah, that was part of what got him sober was he almost died. He punctured a lung. He got hit by a snowplow. Yeah. He got hit by a snowplow. Yeah, he got hit by a snowplow. He was actually, and I'm not making this up, he was taking a dump on the side of the road and a snowplow came and knocked him over an embankment. And I, what?

No, I, and I. Can't take it. No, he's, and he even says, no, he didn't actually get hurt. That time he didn't get hurt that bad because I said to him, I go, are you all right? He goes, yeah, I was wearing my puffy coat or something, he said. Right. But he fell, he got hit by another, hit a guardrail puncture. He was walking around with a punctured lung for like a day and a half.

And the doctor said, if you didn't get in here today, you'd be dead. And so that was the first time, I think. And, you know, and yeah, we thought he was going to die. It's amazing. Do you think like, do you think that like you're being a cop and you're trying to resolve this? Obviously, it's antithetic. It's like it is the literally the opposite of your father. Right.

I mean, I mean, obviously, he didn't look at you as the enemy. But, you know, and he had a relationship with the cops, no matter how much. It almost, in my mind, it plays out like this comedy, that it was just the way the dynamic was, and they knew him, and he knew them, and this is the way it's going to be. You see this stuff on cop shows, like that guy. It's this guy again. guy it's this guy again so you become this thing that you know completely separates you and defines you as your own person and you know and is completely the opposite of your father and somehow or another that didn't quite help you process you know whatever it is that you were trying to process and then at some point you decide well comedy like you know like is it

positive do you ever think of it in those terms like well i gotta tell you um you know i could remember and i don't know if i've ever said this or if my dad uh remembers i could remember my dad watching the tonight show one night yeah when i was a kid yeah and i remember making a comment as to uh you know i could be i you know i could have done this or something like that i could have done this right and i remember it being like and i'm like what like be in show business like be like you know i think could be, you know, I could have done this or something like that. I could have done this. Right. And I remember it being like, you know, like what? Like be in show business. Like be like, you know, I think Carson was doing his monologue, I think. And I think that's, and I don't know if he remembers that, but I always remembered that.

And here I am thinking, well, you might have, but look at, you know, you're drinking. Like, you know what I mean? Whatever you, and there was always a side of me that, you know, back in junior high was the first time I thought I might want to be a standup. Yeah. I just didn't know how to do it. Right. It's just, how do you make a living doing that? But I remember that that's the first time I thought I might want to be a standup someday. I just didn't know how to do it. It's just how do you make a living doing that? But I remember that that's the first time I had the thought.

Who'd you like? What was it that made you think? Well, Carlin and Eddie Murphy were the big ones. That was a little older, more like in high school. Like Rodney Dangerfield. But I could just remember thinking funny things. Like if I would hear something on the monologue, I remember thinking, oh, I had that thought.

Right. Like that's when I thought I had a mind for it. Right. So how do you quit being a cop? While I was still a cop, I went down and did stitches when I did an open mic. Oh, yeah, that first time. And I drove down and just tried it,

and then I just went back and tried it again. Were your jokes about being a cop? They weren't at that point. First time I went down, I didn't tell anybody. Yeah. Just me, I didn't want, if I bombed, I didn't want, that might have been it. Yeah.

But it actually went surprisingly well. So when I went back, I signed up again to do it like four, five, six months later. Who was hosting, you remember who was hosting? I think it was Vinny Favorito. Yeah, Vinny Favorito. Yeah. And so the second time I went back, I told everybody because I thought it went pretty well.

He was probably nervous you were a cop. I don't know if he knew. I don't know if he knew. But he should have been, right? Is he still around? He's back in the Boston area. Yeah, back in the Boston area. Yeah. Yeah, back in the Boston area. Huh.

So the second time I go back, I tell like 40 people come down. They come down and try, right? I went up. I had the suit coat on. I'll never forget. I had a sport coat on and I left the tag on because I was going to try to work it into my act. Yeah. I left the price taggy thing, that thing you're supposed to take off on.

So I get up there. I start in and it's not going well right so i start dropping f-bombs like every every other every fifth word is an f-bomb i'm sweating i'm i'm bombing okay and i know 40 people are there i'm bombing okay vinny you know it's a crutch to use the f-word right so i'm throwing it out everywhere vinny comes up grabs the mic and he says hey justin he's like next, why don't you try throwing a few fucks in there? Maybe that'll get them, right? Huge laugh, right? And I hadn't even, I'm still on stage. And he goes, what's with the, he points out my little tag on the coat. He goes, what's with the coat there,

right? So I try to like spin it. He's got a Giggles jacket on. Remember they had the Giggles, the Knicks jackets, the Giggles jackets? And I go, oh, what's this coat? Giggles? And he just goes, yeah, it's a place where I get paid to tell jokes. Another big laugh. I walked off. That was it.

That was my second time. And I almost, Mark, felt I can't go out like that. And I think that's what motivated me to go back. Oh, so here I am in the back of the room. And I know other comedians have a very similar story because I've since found this. So I'm in the back of the room. A guy goes on next, who I saw the last time I was there, does the exact same jokes he did.

And I was like, you can do that? I did a whole new set my second time. I didn't know that I could repeat material. Yeah. So I was like, you can do that. So that was. That's it. So that was it.

And now that I knew that I could do that. Yeah. Work on it. Let me just go do the best of the first three. Yeah. You know, mix it with if I had anything funny in the second three. Yeah. You know what I mean?

Sure. And that's how it kind of started. I guess that is a big moment where you realize like you can just work on these jokes. You're not getting paid. You know, there's nothing, you know, you're just trying to figure out how to get laughs. So that's how it starts. So when did you stop being a cop and when did you start doing the material about being a cop? Right around the mid-90s, I had gone down to, I moved down to Peabody, Mass.

I don't know if you know Peabody. I do. I do. I know someone who's from Peabody. Gary Goldman's from Peabody. Right. Yeah. Gary Goldman.

So I moved to Peabody because my uncle had a place there, and I was part-time still as a cop. I would go up and do shifts. I would drive up. There was only about an hour and a half drive. So I stayed on as a cop in case the comedy thing didn't kind of work. I could go back. Right. Without having to go to the academy again.

I still had my certification. Yeah. So at that time, I started to work in stuff about material, about being a cop. I was getting on almost every night of the week, you know, as much as I could get on. With Knicks. Yeah. And there was the comedy, I think the Comedy Palace was around then

or a couple other ones. So I was just hammering away and it started to feel good after about a year or so. And the move that got me to New York was this comedian, a good friend of mine, Al Ducharme. I know Al. Yeah, Al Ducharme. I used to, I've done road gigs with Al. He was very funny. Yeah. I've seen him a couple of mine, Al Ducharme. I know Al. Yeah. I've done road gigs with Al.

He was very funny. I've seen him a couple of times, not too long ago. Yeah. He was very funny. Great guy. Yeah, he did a lot of gigs with Al Ducharme. Yeah. Yeah.

He's been doing it for a long time. So he said to me that there was a guy in New York City named Kerry Hoffman who has Stand Up New York, and he's a manager, and he's looking for people. Why don't you send him a tape? So I sent him a tape, and he called me. He goes, hey, I want you to has Stand Up New York, and he's a manager, and he's looking for people. Why don't you send him a tape? So I sent him a tape, and he called me. He goes, hey, I want you to come down to New York. I want to talk about managing you.

So that opened up the New York door. At the same time, I started to do NACAs, the college stuff, right? So I went down to do a NACA. My college agent. A convention. Yeah, a NACA convention, yep. So if they like you, you could get a year's worth of work out of that shit, right?

Yep, you do 20 minutes, and if the colleges like you, you can get 100 schools right there. They can sign you up. So I had a really good set up this NACA, so it made my agent mention me to her friend at Don Buchwald down York. Yeah. Kristen Miller, I believe is her name. Yeah. And so Kristen Miller reaches out to me and says, hey, I want to come out and see you in New York. Where are you working? And I go, well, I don't live in New York.

I'm up in Boston. I'm not working anywhere. He goes, I'll get you a spot at the comic strip. Okay. So I go, okay. So she comes to see me at the comic strip. So Lucian was there. Yeah.

And I had a- Hello, Justin. Yeah. Well, I had, and I didn't even know him until after I got off the stage. So Ian was there and I had a real... Hello, Justin. Yeah. Well, I didn't even see him until after I got off the stage. So I knew nothing about the place. I knew nothing about how hard it is to get on these places, how hard it is to break in. I do my set for her and I get off stage and Lucian tells me that if I move down there, I can start putting him for spots. Wow. So, but it helped because I had someone from the industry. Yeah, get you in the spot. Getting me the spot.

So then I had a meeting with Kerry Hoffman where he's like, you can start working this club. Stand up New York. And he wanted to manage me. And I said, I didn't know yet. I'm still sorting things out. So I got in at that club. And then this is all before I moved down there. What's this, mid-90s?

Yeah, this is like 96, 97, like 97. Like 97 now. So you move. So I move, yeah. And that was the beginning. And I lived in Astoria, Queens. And that's where I met you for the first time. Because I was living there?

I first met you walking down the street. On like 30th Avenue or something? One of those, we walk in one day and I met you. Not a happy time. I'm not taking all that smart marriage. Well, you know, you were nice to me. Yeah. You know, you're friendly. That's you know it was you were nice to me yeah you know you're friendly

that's a good story you were friendly well I mean you were you know hey what's you know but I just remember you were like one of the guys that were there

and you know Louie and you and Dave Attell you guys were like New York in my mind you guys were like the cool New York guys

right you know yeah and so how does it like how does it transpire because like I guess like Ruthann I, my thing with Ruthann, it happened in, like, you know, I didn't get, well, I mean, I had a few deals here and there, but she was still in the racket of getting guys big deals. Because she got John DiResta, the other cop, she got him his big deal.

Yep. So when she wanted to come see me, now Now, she wanted to come and see me. I think it was a guy named Josh Pollock. Did that ring a bell? Yeah, it was her assistant. Okay. He's an actual agent now. I think he still is.

So he had seen me and said, you got to come see this guy. So she comes down to see me. And at this point, Ruthann's coming to see me. Yeah. I had all the New York managers taking me out to lunch wanting to manage me. What, Katz? Katz. Hoffman. Yes, but-? Katz. Hoffman.

Yes, but- Dorfman. Yes, but no, but also Becky. Becky, yeah. Dave Becky, Rose Garden. Rory, yeah. Bruce Hills. Yeah, from Montreal.

Was he managing people? He was managing people. And I'll never forget it because people say, hey, have you done Montreal? Right. And I'm like, no, people say, hey, have you done Montreal? Right. And I'm like, no, I had lunch with Bruce Hills. Right. And I was going to be in Montreal every year for the rest of my life.

And then I didn't end up going with him. Ever? I didn't end up going with, I've never done Montreal. I still haven't. I did Aspen and all that, but I've never gotten, I've never done Montreal. And I don't know if that had something to do with it or not, but I didn't. You can still get in there. Yeah.

I know, but I haven't tried in years. Right. But so what Ruthann told me was, why do you want a manager? Like, why do you want to just get, I'm going to get you a deal. You want to give away 10, 15% for nothing? Right. And at the time, sounds pretty good. I'm like, yeah, it's a good point.

Yeah. Why do I need a manager? In hindsight, I wish I would have gone with a manager because then once the deals don't happen, they fall through, you go back to the managers. Hey, remember you liked me three years ago? You know what I mean? So what happened?

So like what? Like you listen to Ruthann and she gets you what, a deal? Mm-hmm. Yep. I was meeting with a bunch, it was like a bidding war. Oh, big deal. Yeah. Yeah. I was meeting with a bunch. It was like a bidding war. Oh, big deal. Yeah. Yeah.

I was meeting with CBS, Warner Brothers. It ended up coming to Overbrook, Will Smith's company. I think those were the three that were- It was a cop show? Yeah. It was about me back where I used to work. It was just about my life. The Dark Mayberry show.

It wasn't dark, though, because it wasn't really dark. This guy, Ephraim Seeger, ended up, I picked showrunners. I met with all the showrunners yep co-wrote it with them right wrote the pilot yeah um we ended up going with warner brothers studio uh-huh and you know there's a lot of those politics where apparently from what i had heard the head of warner brothers just got a new head of uh the guy became the head of warner brothers yeah different guy and less at cbs they don't get along. And from Wyatt Hurdle, the last thing they want to do is make one of his shows. You know, this guy comes in to the Warner Brothers.

We're going to make one of his shows right away. So there was a little bit of a political thing. So you got the deal with Warner Brothers, and then all of a sudden they changed guards, and Moonves doesn't want to have anything to do with that guy. So you got stuck. It's always something. That was a rumor. It's always something.

So nothing happened. But it didn't end well for Moonves, so, you know. No, I know. do with that guy. So you got stuck. It's always something. That was a rumor. It's always something. So nothing happened. But they didn't end well for Moonves, so, you know. No, I know. Where's that guy now? No. And I met him. Fine somewhere. Yeah, I know.

I'm sure he's got money. Yeah. But, all right, so the first deal goes nowhere. You shoot a pilot. We didn't shoot the pilot. Only wrote the pilot. Yeah. I've been there twice, three times.

Yeah. Yeah. So then, okay, so you got no manager, but you got like half a million in the bank. More. No, no. It was 370, the first one. I wasn't looking for numbers, but it's a lot of money for doing nothing. But the reason I'm going to tell you, because I know a lot of people at the time were probably

like, oh, this guy getting the deals, you know, a little jealous or bitter or whatever, upset with me. Usually it was a 200, 250 deal. But- It was what you got for those development deals if you know, a little jealous or bitter or whatever, upset with me. Usually it was a 200, 250 deal. But. It was what you got for those development deals if you weren't a hot property. Well, I ended up losing it all. So that's why I don't mind telling the number because it has a sad ending. But wait, so you're out here, you get the deal and you stay out here after the shit goes south.

And what do you do? You're doing standup. I was still in New York. Oh, you never moved out. I didn't move to LA. I hadn't moved to LA yet. The first deal goes nowhere. That's you never moved out of here. I didn't move to L.A. I hadn't moved to L.A. yet. The first deal goes nowhere. That's when Ruthann gets the idea.

Pair me up with John Diresta. That's the second deal. Now, had his show gone south yet? Or this is his first shot? He had a show on UPN that went south, yes. So he was going to be the new Gleason. And that didn't happen. It didn't. Yeah, UPN. A lot of billboards So he was going to be the new Gleason, and that didn't happen. It didn't.

Yeah, UPN. A lot of billboards. Yep. A lot of stuff. They must have shot a few. What, did they do 12 or something? Oh, I think he might have got a season. Uh-huh.

Yeah. 20 episodes. So now he's down and out. You're both Ruthann clients. You're both cops. So, of course, Ruthann. You know where the thing is? Ruthann, I ran into her recently.

I was at WME, and she came to see me do something. She had been at ICM and it was weird because she, you know, we went out to lunch and I knew it had to be about something. We caught up, but I really hadn't seen her. I didn't know what she was up to. And she talked me into, you know, going with ICM and I was at WME, but I was a little, you know, I wasn't happy. And that was what she, she talked me into going with ICM and i was at wme but i was a little uh you know i wasn't happy and that was what she she talked me into going with icm which i did i'm with the one of the big guys over there and then

she quit oh well she's not doing it anymore i don't know what she's doing she i think she went into the other side development i don't know but i was the last thing she did she she she pulls me away she got me twice. Fucking Ruthann. 30 years apart. I mean, I'm very fond of her. I have such fond memories because she changed my life at that time. No, no. She believed in me.

And she was going to bat for me. She changed everyone's life. But there was one thing that she did, too, that I wish she hadn't done. What? Which would be the third year. We'll get to that if you want me to go back to the second year with Durester. Yeah, what happened with that? So we, John and I, now we have this show. Which would be the third year. We'll get to that if you want me to go back to the second year with Durester. Yeah, what happened with that?

So we, John and I, now we have this show. I moved down from Maine to become a cop. You know the kind of cop I am. I'm the good cop. I want to change the world. I want to change everyone's opinion of law enforcement, you know, one person at a time. John is the bitter, you know, doesn't even want the job, wants to get hurt on the job so he can collect pension, just get out of it, doesn't want to eat in public,

doesn't want the public to see him. It's an odd couple, right? But he's not an immoral cop. He's just a guy that wants out. He's not immoral. He wants out. Yeah, he wants out. Yeah, exactly. Okay.

So we have to pick a showrunner, and we ended up picking Alan Kirshenbaum. Oh, yeah, I know Alan. Yeah, Alan. He did that Anthony Clark show. He passed away. He did. Who was his dad?

He was Freddie Roman's son, right? Freddie Roman's son. He killed himself, right? Yes, yes. Nice guy, though. A nice guy. And we write it. We pick Alan.

We all write it together, the three of us. We all write it. And CBS says, you know, the people at, because this deal was right with CBS, the quote, I'll never forget it because you don't forget these things. They're like, you know, this is our favorite show this year. We just want to let you know this is our favorite show.

And I didn't get that the first year. Like I never heard that. Just go, we just want you to know this. So I'm thinking, article in Variety. On paper. This could be it. You hadn't shot anything yet. Hadn't shot anything yet.

Right. Okay, so we're just waiting for Les to read it. You know what I mean? Because I haven't got to Les yet. Yeah. In the trades, we see that Alan Kirshenbaum sells a show to CBS called Yes, Dear. It was the same year. Same year that he was doing it.

We didn't know he was doing another show with CBS at the time. John and I were both like, that's probably not good. Yeah. That's probably not good. So we get a call you know hey yeah you know the show

I'm doing but you know what if anything happens with this show if it doesn't make it doesn't cast we want to make yours they held us longer

they held us a little bit longer just in case to give them time to see what happens with Yestir this is how close this one got to getting made

long story short Yestir stays on rest is history. Our show, nothing ever happens with our show. Show business is the worst. So, but I got a story that,

you mentioned Alan Kirscher. Yeah. So that pilot called The Finest sat in my brother's, I was in LA so my brother had boxes for me

that he was keeping in his old house. Yeah. Calls me up, this is in 2012, he says, hey, I got some old boxes here.

He says, do you want to come over and get, you know, get rid of this stuff? Um, you know, cause I, I, you know, I don't want to, I'm moving, I'm selling the house or whatever. So he drops the boxes off. I open up the box and right there's the pilot, the finest that we wrote, right? With Kirshenbaum. With Kirshenbaum. Yeah. I read it. I'm just sitting there in my driveway. Yeah. Just reading it. And I'm like, man, that's a pretty good, still holds up. It's a pretty good show, right? It's just, you know, I put it down, the next day, John Direster, I haven't talked to in five years. I have not talked to John in five years before this. Dude, calls me up and goes, did you hear Alan Kirshenbaum just killed himself? It was the next day. I hadn't thought or seen that pilot in 12 years.

I had just read it. Yeah. And that, it was so, but yeah, so sad. Weird. So sad and he was 51 i know and i'm like yeah so i don't know what happened there i don't know he was 51 and he had you know all the money in the world i know that just goes to show so um so okay so you're two down i'm two down oh now you made money on that second one too yep so you saved some money i had some money you married

at the point yet nope yeah. Yeah. But still with my girlfriend who's now wife. Right. She's my wife. So I'm at Dangerfields. So you never went to LA. You're still in New York. You're at Dangerfields. I'm still in New York. I'm in Dangerfields. There's a guy there that's a waiter. Yeah. It's a part-time stockbroker. Yeah.

1999. Okay. Tells me, he goes, hey man, I do this on the side. Stock market's going nuts. If you remember 99. Yeah. If you Tells me, he goes, hey man, I do this on the side. Stock market's going nuts. If you remember 99, if you were in it or at all. Stock market's going nuts. He goes, why don't you give-

I didn't have any money. Give me some. You know what? I wish I didn't because this is where the story goes from. The best thing that happened to me with those deals and it was the worst.

In hindsight, I wish I never got the deals. Right. So I see this guy. I give him 10 grand. He doubles it in like two weeks. Right? Then I give got the deals. Right. So I see this guy. I give him 10 grand. He doubles it in like two weeks, right? Then I give him 50 grand. He doubles that.

Yeah. I give him more. He doubles that. He's like, on paper, Mark, I am like, I'll never forget the quote he said to me. He goes, I'm going to have you at a million dollars by the end of the year, right? I'm going to have you at a million dollars by the end of the year, right? This is the waiter. This is the waiter. This is the waiter. Cut to the market crashes, right? The big crash of 2000, it was 2000.

Big crash of 2000. I didn't realize that I'd kept like a hundred grand in cash. Yeah. Hundred grand was in mutual funds, but didn't realize those were in tech funds. Right. So that was all gone. I didn't realize that when you sell a stock in less than a year, you have to pay the government capital gains on that, 50%. So every time he was doubling my money, taking out double, double, double, I owed the IRS.

Yeah. So I had to take all the money I had, the 100 grand that was my safety net. Let's be smart. Let's not do anything stupid. I had to give all that to the government. So I ended up with $10,000 after all of that. And I couldn't even look at it. I was in such depression. And when I tell you, I bought a leather jacket and I'm not lying. I bought a leather jacket and I was just looking to buy a new car, a Honda Civic. Yeah. Tree fell on it. So I had a big dent in the front and I pulled into the shopping center

and what was the supermarket in Astoria, Queens off the main drag there? What was that called? Vons? No, that's LA. No. Pathmark. Yeah, Pathmark.

Pathmark. That sounds right. I pull into Pathmark. Yeah. I don't know. I think they're Mexican or Hispanic. I don't know what that is, but they come up to me and they were like,

do you want to fix your car? Fix your car? And I go, I don't. They stuck a drill right into the side of my car and they just right there they had the putty and everything and they just stuck a drill in it they popped pulling it out yeah i didn't even they paint it and i sprayed it didn't even match or anything i threw him a few bucks and i'm like i gotta get a new car and but it was like right when it crashed so i stayed i kept that car for another two years i had my leather jacket that was it and i had 10 grand that literally went into like a retirement

thing and that's still that 10 grand I still have. But yeah, what did you, I mean, what's the lesson there? Maybe, maybe, you know,

look, stockbrokers are dubious, but the waiter stockbroker, maybe not the best idea. Mark, I'm embarrassed to tell the story. It's, he,

so this guy who I hadn't heard from in a few years, all of a sudden out of the blue calls me up. He goes, Hey, I'm going to say his first name. I'm going to say his last name. He goes, hey, Dan here. I'm like, hey, what's up, Dan?

And I'm in like deep depression. He's like, got a lot of big things happening. I got some stuff I want to tell you about. And I'm like, what? He's like, there's some companies I really think are going to move. I'm like, Dan, I have no money. I go, I've been wiped out. He goes, you know, he goes, that was a tough stretch for a lot of people.

He goes, I moved back in with my grandmother. I swear to God. He goes, I'm living with my grandmother now. And I'm like, so, and he called and showed up a couple of times and I'm like, and I would joke, you know, I said, this is a joke. I said, he went from being my stockbroker to my broke stalker. Like he just kept showing up. I'm like, what are you, I go, I got nothing left. I go, this guy, meeting him, like ruined my, you know, I didn't buy property. I lived in a two and a half family in Astoria, Queens, the one that I, I could have bought that. Like I could have bought that for cash.

It's worth like 1.5 million now. So just if I would have bought property, but I didn't. So when you talk about, you know, you know, I, oh, I got this windfall. I was lucky to get it. But when you, I had, my accountant says, there's people jumping out of buildings that didn't have as bad of a case as you have of losing money like that.

I still, to this day, write off, I think three grand every year off my losses for the rest of my life. For that? Yeah, it's like I got, I wish my development deal was, you know what, we can't give you much money, but every year you can write 3,000 off your taxes for life.

I would have been like, sign me up. So that's pretty brutal, man. And I mean, are you doing comedy through all this? I am, but it was tough. It was depressing. I got Jay Leno and I did Leno for the first time in 2002, which was my goal when I had set out, if I could the tonight show that was the one thing my dad you know we used to watch it yeah if I could do the tonight show I was so depressed when I did it like I can't even do all right it was I thought it was okay they had me back yeah it was good but it wasn't good I wasn't myself right I watched myself I was like there was this gloom doom and gloom underneath me yeah when I watch it like I could see it and here this should have been the happiest moment of my life. And I like, and it just literally, I just wasn't even myself.

I'm like, who is that guy? I would love to do that material again. No, it was a tough one. So I moved to LA in 2001. That's when you came? Yes, 2001 I came after I had lost. Exactly. So I'm walking around in LA.

Oh my God. And the sun was out and I was not. That's not the time to come. No. You come when you get the deal, and then you kind of delude yourself into thinking it's all turned around. But you lost everything, and you're like, I'm going to go there? Yes, I know. That's like the most depressing situation I can imagine.

Yeah. So you're here. You're broke. You're just doing a Tonight Show. You've had three deals. You're well-trodden territory, and what are you doing? Well, I had three deals you're you're you're you're well trodden territory and you're what are you doing well well i had two deals the third one was one i was gonna have about ruthann will smith's company offered me a deal they were this was in 2000 this was in 2000 that's part of

why i gave the guy almost all my money because i knew i had another one coming from will smith's company right the last minute she says, you know what? I don't think we should take it. It's 250 grand. Yeah. Because I don't think we should take it. I'm like, really? Yeah, they haven't had a show on yet.

They haven't gotten a show on the air. I think it's a bad year. Let's wait a year. So I never got that one. So that was there. I never took it. Because I was thinking, all right, let me get this. I'll buy a house with that money.

Yeah. I'll have this money in the stock market. So that never happened. Everything was going your way, man. So in 2000, 2001 now, when I moved there, 9-11, 2001. When you moved to LA. Yes, I moved to LA in January of 2001.

And then 9-11. And then it changed. Well, it just changed the, I put up my one man show at the HBO workspace. Do you remember that? Sure, I did one-man shows there. I've had desperate attempts at, please help me. Yeah, I should have called all my shows there.

I think I did two one-man shows there, subtitled Please Help Me. Yeah. So what happened? I put that up. I think it was September 17th, 2001. It was a week after 9-11. That's right.

My book came out around 9-11. My first book, yeah. It was not a good... It's a sad day for everybody. It was a sad day. And I mean, it was... I got Aspen that year. I took the one...

That was the year in Aspen. Nobody's buying. But reality TV had just come, right? Survivor, Big Brother. So that was the change. All of that. So it just changed. So now by 2002, writing's on the wall.

No money. I blew it. I was all set up to do what I came to do. It was a gift, and I blew it. So that's what I had to live with for years. I don't think that, but you don't really feel like you blew it. I mean, the show business part, you didn't blow. That's just the nature of show business i mean you know giving your a weight or 200 grand not a great idea but i mean but show business is show business mark

you know given a weight or two no given a weight or 200 grand was not smart i had a you know i had a trademark yeah lucky. Do you know Lucky Brand Dungarees? Yeah. I had the trademark Lucky Anywhere, and I sold it to Lucky Brand Dungarees for $4,000. Lucky Anywhere? Lucky Anywhere. It was just a trademark I had. They bought it for me.

What made you register a trademark? I was going to do clothes. I had this clothing line. When was this? This was in mid to late 90s. Same time I was doing stand-up. I had a clothing line. I bought the trademark to suck it up. was like a sports line yeah bill parcells wore it chilling with a bloody sock like had my hat on before he pitched with the did you make money at that no no i didn't make money because i'm a horrible businessman obviously that's the the

waiter doing my stock stuff and the four grand that lucky gave me for that trademark i found out later from a patent attorney he goes you only got four grand he lucky gave me for that trademark i found out later from a patent attorney he goes you only got four grand he's like who handled that case my buddy was a defense attorney was he a waiter i know he was worried it was a defense he just tried to keep me out of jail i'm like you know he does ouis you know dwi and he handled that so that like literally so that's but you talk about bad decisions i've got why were you going to jail? No, I'm just saying as a defense attorney. Right. He's worried.

He just is trying to get people off. He wasn't his area. And, you know, having a waiter do my stocks and a defense attorney handle my patent trademark thing. So I've got, you know what I mean? So those mistakes, that's what haunts me a little bit. So, yeah. Yeah.

So I'm here, Mark. Thanks for having me. But wait, so wait, tell me about the day you decided to leave LA oh wait were you working out here or were you

yeah right because you're you know you were on the Tonight Show you do the improv I start to yeah I was doing

I passed you know the funny bone and the improvs to headline I was headlining all those all over the country oh that's good

so you're working I went and did the audition but it was the thing where now I've got to go out of town all the time. You are a road comic. I'm a road comic to try to make money now to buy a house.

Do you have kids yet? No. No kids. So the real estate market here is going up. I'm trying to make the money so I could get a down payment on a house. By around 2005, I had done the Leno in 04 again. I went back in 04. So by 05, we go look at places, it's two bedrooms of $500,000, right? Here.

Yeah. My wife doesn't like it here. She's kind of miserable. What does she do? She was working at a staffing agency up in the Valley, like in Woodland Hills. Yeah. And she just wanted to be back home. You know, we got married in 04. So in 04, at the wedding, I saw the writing, all the friends like, when are you guys coming back? We can't wait till you come back.

You know, everyone was saying that. And I'm like, uh-oh, this isn't going to be good. When's Justin going to grow up? Yeah, when's he going to give up? Right, when's he going to give up on this comedy thing? That's funny, the fine line between grow up and give up. That's a funny, I never really thought of that. Yeah. When is you get to grow up? When did we even give up? Right? Yeah. That's interesting. So, okay, when did you give up? I mean, grow up. So, by this time, it was like

05, 06, we were looking at property. It was so expensive here that we finally went back in 06 and bought a house. And you know what the irony the sad sick irony was another sad sick irony I know it's horrible the house I bought in New Hampshire was the same price that I could have bought the one I lived in in Astoria Queens

I know I'm awful so I didn't go to therapist until I was in 2010 I'm actually doing better now Mark than I was just even two months ago. But were you just a, yeah? I am. But were you just a cauldron of resentment and self-pity or? Yeah.

So your wife wants to go back. You know, you realize you can't talk her out of it with anything on paper. There's no, you say like, I guess i can do the road gigs from there doesn't matter where i am because i'm like i'm on the road all the time right it's her defense sure it's like if you're going to be gone all the time i want to be there and it kind of made sense but in my mind i'm thinking well then i'm out of the game i'm out of the game yeah so i moved back in 06 and i got to tell you the first three or four years were good and the fact I had a lot of stuff that I parlayed. I got a half hour Comedy Central special while living there.

Right. I get a one hour. Right. I did the Blue Collar Tour next gen. I was chosen for that. And I had a deal with Comedy Central. Who else was on that? That was Bill Engvall hosted it.

Yeah. And then it was Reno Collier. Yeah. John Caparulo. Yeah. Jamie Kaler and myself. What's Caparulo, Jamie Kaler, and myself. What's Caparulo up to? I used to see him all the time.

You know, I was just in Vegas, and he's got a residency there, I guess. Oh, he does? Yeah. Actually, I did a Showtime special with him, with Rob Gronkowski, like a year and a half ago. He was on that. He was picked to do that. Okay.

Yeah, so I just saw him. Oh, so he's out there doing it. A year and a half ago, yeah. You never know what guys are up to, but there's so much to do. All right, so you get that. So it's a good few years, and you're living in doing it. A year and a half ago, yeah. You never know what guys are up to, but there's so much to do. All right, so you get that. So it's a good few years, and you're living in New Hampshire. You have a kid. Yeah, first kid in 07.

Right away, we got back 06, 07, first kid. Your dad got sober. Things are different there. Hadn't been sober yet because that was 07. So it's been, yeah, just shortly after that. Yep, like 09 or something. So that's good. Yeah, so I got the wife, got the kids.

You know, I had a few, oh, I shot a show about a volunteer fire department that Dennis Leary Apostle saw. Serpico? Serpico, the same time Barry was on. You did my show, yeah. Yeah, so the same time that was on, we sold this one to IFC. So that was all done from New Hampshire. So part of what I'm trying to do is stay in the game and stay relevant back there. So the last few years I've been out here pitching with different people and trying to sell shows.

I mean, I've got something now that I'm working on. So trying to stay relevant out here has been the challenge, but it didn't end up getting picked up, but it's like I wrote that pilot. So I've had some stuff happen, but as every year goes by, it feels like you're further and further away. That's why to be- Getting old. I'm getting old. And that's why, I mean, to do-

We all are. Dude, to do your podcast is great for me. I'm being completely honest. It's relevant. Because I'm looking at the- I'm like, if I was out here, I'd be doing these podcasts. And I'd be, you know- Everybody's scrambling, dude. Everybody's scrambling, dude.

Everyone's scrambling, yeah. But, I mean, but, you know, you're still doing a lot of comedy. You still do all right up there? You turn over an hour every year? What's your process? Yeah. And that's the process that stresses me out. Yeah.

Is the whole, you know, in order to make decent money, you've got to do the theaters. Right. And in order to do the theaters, you've got to turn over the material. You can't do the same stuff. You know, this whole thing. Right. Someone will come see you twice, but if it's the same stuff, they're not going to see you a third time. Right. You know, so that's been the battle. So the battle is there's not places to get on and work during the week. There's no scene. I got an open mic I do every Tuesday. I try to do seven, eight minutes, hope that two of those, two or three of those minutes make it into the weekend. Sure. And then I just try to build my year that way. Yeah. But it's, it doesn't feel

sustainable. Right. It does not feel sustainable. And I, you know, I just did the Rochester Opera House a few months ago and show couldn't have gone better from my end. And after it, I looked bummed out, I guess. And my, the guy opens for me, my good friend, Jeff was like, he's like, what's wrong when you look bummed out? And I literally, I said to him, I go, what am I going to do next year? Yeah. Like, I finally got this stuff to where it needed to be, where it was all working.

And now it's like, I've got to, I can't do, you know, a new, come up with a new closer. I mean, it's, you know, the work that goes into it. But why? Just because of that one gig? Or you just played it out? Can't you tour it? I do them, I do these same theaters every year.

Same time of year. Yeah. So as I do one, now I'm already building for the next time I come back around in next March and do that venue again. Yeah. I'm hoping to have. And it's not all new. You know what?

I'm starting to do something now where I'm going to start doing old stuff like at the end. Yeah. Just because I can't do it. I can't. Yeah, you need about a year and a half really. And you can't turn it over in less than a year. It's hard.

And you feel bad. People come out and it's not ready. It's not ready it's half baked and uh so i hate that feeling yeah so it's just so so that's kind of the the struggle and what stresses me out now yeah is i can't sustain this what am i gonna do so yeah so that's it yeah but you but you're okay uh family's good kids are like like, yeah, kids and wife. And it's like the family's great. She working? She works.

Yeah. She has to work. I mean, that's, you know. But it's okay? Health insurance. Yeah, it's okay. Yeah. I mean, she'd like to not work, but so would I.

It's nice up there though, right? Yeah, it's nice and it's a great place to have a family. And it's, you know, once my kids were born, I even stopped doing Vegas because it was the seven nights. I don't really do. I'm home 90% of the time now. I'm trying not to do so many Wednesday to Sundays because you leave on the Wednesday, you're back on the Monday.

My kids are at that age where it's- You don't want to miss it. I don't want to miss it. But that's where you can generate the new shit though. Yep. That's the problem. Right. So that's the battle.

It's like, you're on, you miss this. Every week there's something at school you miss. Oh, it's a play. It's a, you know, it's a this. Got to make your choice. Yeah, it's this presentation or the science fair or we're going to see, you know what I mean? And it's like, it's just.

But like you're saying about all these guys, you know, like as I recently talked to Bill Janowitz from Buffalo Tom, the band. And I don't like, you know, I've sort of like changed my thinking on that. I don't know what my skillset really is. And I sort of you know lucked out with some persistence and good cosmic timing but it seems like

uh you know if you can live with it there there is a way to find another life you know that either supplement or do you know what i mean to like yeah have you thought about applying your skill set to something else alongside of the comedy? Or is that just too much of a fucking ego buster? I mean, you know what? It is a little bit. Yeah, I mean, there is some of that, right? It's like, what do we want to do?

Like even selling merch. Like I hate, I sold onesies like years ago, a couple of weeks, I'm like, what am I doing? Like I just- I can't do it. I can't do it. I don't want to stand there. I used to. Just boxes of shit. You i used to just boxes of

shit you're traveling with three boxes of shirts yeah and stickers it's but but that's right after the last set you run out there hey and then they feel awkward if they don't buy and they walk by you but that's when you say supplemental income that could make a difference that's oh no like you know the best thing is posters are goodters are good because they're easy to travel with. You sign them, 20 bucks. I'm afraid nobody would want one. Just stand in there. Yeah. Poster, poster, anybody?

Yeah. So have I thought of anything else? I've thought of doing things in the speaking realm. Right. In that realm a little bit. So who knows if that'll happen. Yeah, because it seems like I tried to do some of that. that yeah i don't know if i'm the best candidate for it but you know speak about like you know how you know my my journey you know but you know but it's hard

to be it's you know it's it's hard to you know on both sides of it where you know i'm going to go up and tell them you know some sort of success story but it was not planned man it was not going you know there's no there i can't give you an a plus b equals your success no it's a fucking crapshoot right it's a shitty business and you know who the fuck knows what's gonna happen in the back of your head that's what you're thinking you almost feel like i'll say it yeah i'll say it it's like you know you guys have a great message everyone everyone can do podcasts but you but don't bank on it. Good luck. Thank you.

Right. What am I going to say? Yeah, you feel a little bit like a fraud, right? It's not from my- I won't do it, which is why I'm not getting the speaking engagements. I can't do the fraud thing that well. I try to be honest about it. Well, with me, I was doing a drug and alcohol and motivational thing, and part of while

I'm doing that, I'm like, I blew it. Like, I blew my, you know what I mean? Like, I don't feel like I should be here. You know, that was a little bit what I had. Really? Going on. Yeah.

The underneath of it. So you're working. You're solvent. You're above water. Your dad's sober. You got a good relationship with your family, your wife. Yeah,

but you're still, something's still stuck in there, huh? I was about to say, you know what, Mark? I never looked at it that way. You should be grateful, you fuck. I'm'm better i'm better today than i was i started

and i know you've talked about this a meditation oh yeah on your podcast yeah i haven't done it if you don't you do it not only have i done it i can't recommend it more and i think you were talking with letterman yeah and you were asking whether you should do it for me where i was i wasn't sleeping every hour on the hour, I was waking up. I'm stressed, the anxiety. Beating the shit out of yourself? Beating the shit out of myself. It's the stress.

Like all this stuff I'm telling you, you got to come up with this. I can't do it. I can't sustain it. I can't come up. All of this stuff was just really killing me. And I bumped into my buddy, this Boston comedian, Dan Crone.

I don't know if you know him. I know him. Yeah, he opened for me. Oh, Dan Crone. He's a great guy. Great guy. So he saw me one night, and I think I looked like I had been hit by a truck or beat up. I hadn't know if you know him. I know him. Yeah, he opened for me. Oh, Dan Crone. He's a great guy. Great guy. So he saw me one night, and I think I looked like I had been hit by a truck or beat up.

I hadn't slept. I told him, and he said to me, he goes, you got to try TM. And I go, and I've heard of it because Stern had talked about it for years. And I'm like, oh, the meditation, Transcendental Meditation. He goes, yeah. He goes, changed my life. Huh. He goes, it's 960 bucks. He goes, I would have paid 10 times the money.

Wow. So for someone you know to say you would have paid 10 times the money, he goes, I did it for insomnia to help my sleeping creatively. So I went and did it just not even six weeks ago. Six weeks ago, I went and did it. Just, oh, it's new. I did the course four days in a row, 90 minutes a day over four days. Yeah.

And I do it 20 minutes right when I wake up, 20 minutes in the afternoon. Mark, I haven't needed a nap. I just, it's, what it does is your brain gets in this rest state of rest where it does not get when you're sleeping because your brain when you're sleeping is all firing on all cylinders. So when you learn how to just shut it down completely, it's like, it's like charging your battery.

It's like a recharge. So my energy, my mood, like everything, people, friends, family, my wife, all have noticed a difference in me. Since I started doing this. So for me, it just was the right thing. And look, you don't get anything for it if you tell someone. It's not like, hey, mention my name, they'll throw me a hundred bucks.

Too bad. You're selling me. Well, I'm telling you, for me, it's just, I won't live without it. There's a lot of way to go with it. You don't have to do TM, but there's a lot of ways to approach meditation, but it's just getting into that place. The thing that TM is, which I didn't understand, it's nothing to do with your breathing. Right.

Every app I have is breathing. I've been meditating for years with the breathing. Oh, really? TM, you don't- He says angrily, the fucking breathing. I'm up with the breathing. It's not working. I love the breathing.

It's done nothing for me, Mark. So what this is, it's not working. I love the breathing. It's done nothing for me, Mark. So what this is, is it's your mind. You think of this mantra in your mind, and your breathing almost stops. Everything in your body metabolically goes way, way, way, way down, and eventually the mantra disappears, and you have nothing, and then a thought comes up. That's stress getting released, and that's the thought, and now you come back up to the top of the circle with the mantra mantra you go back and you just keep doing that and you get better and

better at getting to the spot where you're like oh my god this is it it feels amazing so where the thoughts don't come where there's no thought and there's no mantra and your just brain is just shut down and you think it is so hard to do i do you do you think oh i can just shut my brain no i i you can't do it no i know well i'm fortunately for me as i get older i'm forgetting almost everything so i i hope it's not alzheimer's but like it's a little easier to quiet my brain down because it doesn't seem to give a shit about a lot of this stuff that i used to what are you doing in town did you do anything but this i actually was on my way out here for uh this other meeting this other show i'm trying to and it actually fell fell apart it's turned into a conference call yeah it's turned into a conference call. Yeah, it's turned into a conference call now.

You flew out for a meeting and now it's a conference call? Yeah, yeah. God damn, I don't fucking miss that thing. Like when you come in from New York for auditions and shit. I know, I know, I know. But I'm happy to do it. Trust me. But do you meditate?

Oh, I meditate. That's just it, see? I'm a different person, Mark. If I did this two months ago, I would be like, oh, it sucks it sucks well it's good to see you thank you so much i'm glad that uh mentally you're doing okay you're doing better i'm happy that your dad's sober that's a that's a hell of a story yeah it is you know and i always thought mark that you know you always thought i think you want your parents to be proud of you but i think what i really wanted was to be proud of my dad oh you know what i mean i think that's what i've realized like in life and it's like i

couldn't be proud of him so oh man that's that's great got a happy ending all right thanks man thanks mark wild story right right i remember when like those outros coming out of an interview where I'm clearly back where we started. I was so worried about the transition. And I wanted to fool you guys like it was seamless. Like the guy just left. And at some point I'm like, they're not. It doesn't matter.

Justin McKinney. The new special Parentally Challenged on Amazon Prime, iTunes. You can go to JustinMcKinney.com. Great story, though, right? You know what this is? That's the sound of my mustache coming back. I'm rubbing the beginning

of a mustache on the mic. It's coming back, people. It's coming back. The. It's coming back. The stash is coming back. SwordofTrust.com and WTFpod.com

slash tour. And now I'm going to play at first two chords and then I'm going to play at first two chords and then I'm going to add a chord and then maybe one other chord and it's going to have an echo on it and then I'm going to stop playing Thank you. Boomer lives! influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category,

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