WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1046 - Patricia Clarkson

Episode Date: August 19, 2019

Patricia Clarkson came to show business by way of New Orleans, where exposure to all manner of public figures who were equal parts good and bad may explain why she never judges the characters she plays, even if they’re monstrous. That’s true of her Emmy-nominated performance in Sharp Objects and her stage performance as Blanche DuBois, a role Patricia says she had to survive. She also talks with Marc about working with Brian DePalma and Clint Eastwood in her first two films, struggling in Hollywood in her 30s, and feeling like actors her age are now having a heyday. This episode is sponsored by The Righteous Gemstones on HBO, Stamps.com, and Starbucks Tripleshot Energy. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck nicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome to it to it how's it going who's on the show i'll tell you patricia clarkson is here

she's uh actually nominated for an emmy for her work in hbo sharp objects as she's nominated for the best supporting actress in a limited series or movie category and she's out making the rounds and I nabbed her. I didn't grab her. I got her to come over to my house and talk to me. So that's going to happen. How's that? Sound exciting? It was pretty exciting. She's a very charming, smart, brilliant actress and you know her from a lot of things. She's one of those people. I know her from that thing. Just bonk the table at your knee, Mark. It's all right. Noises don't matter anymore. It's the new age. It's the new age. Noises don't, they're not a problem. Hey, so Peter Fonda died, man. Yeah, man. Peter Fonda has passed away and it's a sad's a sad thing he was a an american original that's for sure nobody

like peter fonda he passed a few days ago and i just wanted to tell you that i've reposted the conversation i had with him last year you can get that in the uh free podcast feed wherever you listen to wtf also if you want to know more about the Fonda family, episode 1014 with Jane is still available in the feed. If you want to get some more talk about their relationship and their family. Rest in peace if that's possible, Peter Fonda. You were an angry fighting fucker. So hopefully you'll get a little rest, Mr. Fonda. Thank you for your work i um i just talked

to the dead as if i'm talking you know it's this podcast enters the ether and i'm assuming that if there is a possibility that the dead are lingering they will be in the ether somewhere as soon as it hits the cloud i don't know what the distance is between the cloud. It's all out there, all right? Just as long as it's not mixed in with the juggernaut of hateful bullshit that is our daily existence. The juggernaut of hateful bullshit. How's it going? Everybody all right?

Friday night, I went and took a cake. all right friday night i went and took a cake that's what they say here in the uh secret society racket of the greater los angeles area when you celebrate a number of years in the sober life and you're in the game in the racket in the society you take a cake so and somebody presents you the cake so my buddy jerry stall uh went with me to a thing i did why am i being cagey now and uh i announced my my years and i said a few words and i blew out some candles and we had dinner nice to catch up with jerry uh what else saturday night did a uh did a spot of comedy at 825. Did pretty well. Pretty funny at the comedy store. And then I went to Sarah Silverman does a yearly rooftop party. And I haven't gone in like three years, probably. I don't know what it is with me and parties,

but I think I'm starting to figure it out. That party's like kind of a big deal. It's a big scene. You know, Sarah's got a lot of friends. It's a show business community party. It's on a rooftop and it's, it's a little overwhelming. You know, we got there and there was a sign that says you can't, you podcasters can't ask people to be on the podcast. That's the world we live in now. As you go to a fancy, not even a fancy, just a casual rooftop party in Hollywood, there has to be a note, a handwritten sign that says, no asking people to be on your podcast at this shindig. And you know what's sad about that? It's a reasonable request. It's appropriate,

and I wouldn't have done it anyways. I might have. And I think one of the reasons, one of the reasons that I can't go to these kind of parties that are full of the celebrity types is I get very excited to see people. And I assume that I have a relationship with them that I may not. You know, I'm sort of a fan. And there are people, sure, there's people I've talked to here in this room that I can say hi to and feel comfortable with. There's people I've known in the comedy world for years. But, you know, I just assume a familiarity that I don't know if it really exists. And I get very excited. And my boundaries become porous.

And I'm touching people. You know, not in an inappropriate way, but I'm giving hugs. I'm holding people. Like I saw Conan O'Brien there. I gave him a big hug. and we chatted a bit. I saw there were some people from the old days from when me and Sarah were back in New York, way back. Todd Berry was there. The Todd Berry. Ouch. Apologize. Todd Berry. Mike Ivey was there. These are the big names, folks. Dave Justgau. You know Dave Justgau? You probably don't, but he was there. These are the big names, folks. Dave Juskow. You know Dave Juskow? You probably don't, but he was there. Some old-timers. Fitzsimmons was there, but I'm just talking

about the comedian tier, and that tier even goes up. I'm standing there. Manzoukas is there. I know him. I can touch his beard. I don't know if I can. I did. I said, how are you? I touched his beard. I know I can touch Brett Gellman's beard because Brett is Brett and he's a boundaryless person like myself. So I can give him a hug and touch his beard. I don't know if it was appropriate with Manzoukas. I think this is the second time that I've questioned my behavior in relation to Jason Manzoukas. But I gave him a hug, I think, and I touched his beard, saw Sacha Baron Cohen. I shook his hand. He's intimidating. I don't feel that comfortable around him, but he was there. So I'm overwhelmed. And there's all these people that I kind of know, but do I know him? I saw

Larry David there. I don't know Larry David. I've met him twice. He was very sociable. He's talking to Jeff Ross. By the way, this monologue is called name drop this. I'm doing a power name drop here because I was at this party trying to explain that, uh, um, to you that I have a sort of fanage. It's different because I am within the community. I wasn't always, but I do assume a familiarity and a comfort level. Maybe it's okay. Maybe I'm just being social. Maybe I'm being too hard on myself.

Don't know. But I saw Larry David. I talked to him, had a couple laughs. Jeff Ross was there. Albert Brooks. Now, see, this is the thing with Albert. He was there. And anytime I see him, and it's only been twice, I've only met him twice. You know, I want to talk to him. I love Albert Brooks. I love his work. I think he's one of the funniest people that ever lived. And I'd like to talk to him because I think it would be

a very interesting conversation, but he's resistant. I've reached out to his manager nope doesn't want to he's focusing on acting fine I got my buddy Mike Binder that's sort of trying to get Albert to come on uh they talk occasionally okay fine I've seen him twice in public and both times he says did you bring your microphone and I go okay I can't I'm not going to ask him but we had a nice talk about some other stuff for a few minutes and that was exciting Tig was there Diane Keaton was there did not say hello I've said to hello to her once before that was hard but it's it's awkward because I don't want to be rude and I go to these parties and I'm just looking around while I'm talking to people Saget Saget was there a lot of Saget Jonah Rayia sweeney was there and i just get

get very excited and very exhausted jazelnik was there aisha tyler steven weber who else i see uh there's some people i didn't even see but there was yeah it was pretty pretty fucking exciting folks because there's still some part of me that doesn't think we're all in the same game I'm just like I can't believe I got into this place I can't believe it I'm gonna but there's some people I love you know certainly the Conan yeah yep and I think I'm gonna be on his show tomorrow I'm gonna be on the Conan O'Brien show tomorrow. I know I am. I know I'm going to be. So was that a name-dropping extravaganza? I feel like I'm missing a couple. I guess what I'm saying is very exciting to me

to see these people that I've admired my entire life and be able to kind of talk to them and be in the same community with them. Is that okay? Can I just feel good on this Monday? I'm gonna. Did some hiking, hiked up the hill in the hot weather. Almost felt like, felt a little heart palpies, but nothing happened. Didn't go down. Got the palps, didn't go down. I know some of you are like, you shouldn't

be getting palps. I know, but I've always gotten them. I don't know if it's all the caffeine, a lot of tea, a lot of Assam tea. They can't all be fucking riveting, folks. They can't all be riveting. I'm a little out of it. I'm a little tired. We're starting the week here. We're getting through it. I hope the juggernaut of hateful bullshit continues. But I just hope that, you know, I fucking hope people have had enough. I really cooking keeps me sane you know i was away for a while in new york and i was a little out of sorts last monday all week i kind of took me a while to reconfigure but like man i gotta lock down on the weekend and just cook stuff for the week ground myself do the grocery shopping clean the litter boxes my cats are getting so old

i don't know just just reflecting folks having an okay day i hope your morning is good too i hope your week is good uh patricia clarkson is nominated for an emmy for her work on hbo sharp objects and she's uh she's nominated in the Best Supporting Actress in a Limited Series or Movie category. She's lovely. She's a great actress. And she's here now with me in my house. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations,

how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost

coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. mind your business. Yeah, so it's hard to maintain a passion for the industry when you're running around doing this, right? Yeah. When you feel yourself, all right, I'm going to go tell these stories. And then you build the story as you move along. And then you're happy you have something to say about the thing you're selling.

Yes. By about three or four days in. Yes. That's my life. So that's where you're at right now. Right now. Is this the dream? Am I living the dream?

Yes. Oh, sure. Yeah. Uh-huh. But you don't live here? No, I live in New York. I live in the West Village. Really?

Yeah. For years? Long. Since 1991. Yeah. For years? Long, since 1991, yeah. Where were you before that? I was still in New York, but I was living in Chelsea, and then I lived in Hell's Kitchen, and I lived in Brooklyn Heights. Wow. Brooklyn Heights, Midtown.

Hell's Kitchen, though. Yeah, I lived in Hell's Kitchen. Yeah, like what, in the 40s? On like 9th, 8th and 8th? 9th, 47th, and 10th. Oh, over there. And it was very hard to get a cab because I don't know if it's flattering or not, but cab drivers, I think like late at night when I was going out, I thought, do they think I'm a hooker?

Did they? Maybe. They certainly weren't. They sometimes wouldn't stop. You couldn't be a menace. They're like, that one's trouble. You know, if I was dressed up, I thought, why are they not stopping? But there were many, many, many hookers in the area.

I remember. Yeah, on 9th. Many, many. All the way up from the Port Authority. Yes. It's kind of rough to walk through that every day, right? It was a colorful neighborhood. Yeah.

But there were very nice people in the neighborhood, great people, and a lot of artists. I liked living there. Yeah. So now you're out pushing the Sharp Objects thing. Yes. And you're nominated for a thing. For a thing, yes. For a thing called a thing. Yes. This is the, and you're nominated for a thing. For a thing. Yes.

For a thing called a thing. Yeah. You're nominated for the Emmy. Now wait, now this is, but this is not your first nomination or it is?

No. What was the last one? I won two for Six Feet Under. Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, I should know that

in my research, but I want you to say it. Now was that, was that exciting? Does it get like, do you, does it, I see like, I should know that in my research, but I want you to say it. Now, was that exciting? Does it get, like, do you, does it, see, like, I don't, I try not to value those things because I have won nothing ever for anything I've ever done. Zero. But does it, when you get those, do you, it does matter. Yes.

Good. No, there's no false modesty here. There's no humbleness. No, no. It's really, it's nice to win. It's beautiful to win. And they're really beautiful statues. They look nice in my apartment.

And that's the important thing. Well, yes. They're not chintzy. They're the real deal. They gussy up my apartment. They got some weight to them. They do. Yeah.

And they'll poke your eye out. You have to be careful. They're pointy and heavy. And when people come over, you don't have to point them. They do. Yeah. And they'll poke your eye out. You have to be careful. They're pointy and heavy. And when people come over, you don't have to point them out. No. They just kind of gravitate towards them. They just kind of look. Oh. Yeah.

I have them up high on a shelf. Oh, that's good. But it does, it validates you in the community and in the eyes of people. And you feel like you've accomplished something. Well, it also acknowledges the many people. You don't get there alone. You get there because somebody wrote really great stuff for you. Yeah.

And some great director directed you well, and your fellow actors were really good, too. Right. You never get there because, oh oh my God, I was amazing. It was all me. And everybody else was like, you know, high. Riding my coattails.

Yeah, yeah. I drove this thing. No, you get there because a lot of great things were around you. Yeah. So,

because I've been, you know, I've been a little more involved in acting than I used to be. Do you find it like, well, you're really great at it. Thank you. At 9.42 in the morning.

Yes, thank you. Could have been 10. It was supposed to be 10. Well, we drove, like we got here early. I know, you always give yourself an hour. We were like Glendale. Yeah. But where did you grow up?

I grew up in New Orleans. Really? Yeah. I'm saying that like I didn't know that, but I kind of knew that. But I didn't want to just project that. I'm like, I know you. I don't like questions like that where people tell you. Where were you?

Yeah. You know, where they're like, you grew up in New Orleans. So you go, yes, I did. Yeah. Surprise. But so it was a different city back then, wasn't it? Yes. Yes and no.

Yeah. Of course, every city has evolutions and every city has. But that city was destroyed. Well, yes, very much so. But what came back, and there's still strife there's still struggles in new orleans but it's it is the city i've always known and i was born there and i have most of my family there my mother ran the city she was president of the city council under two mayors sadly one's in jail and the other is Mitch Landrieu.

Who was the one in jail? Ray Nagin. Oh, yeah. And anyway, but I love my hometown. So I feel that it's not back and better. It's just still New Orleans. It's still the city that is ruled by music and food and colorful people and corruption and corruption corruption is still there yes but i mean like when i go there when i've gone to new orleans you get there and it's it you there's no place like it and right

away you know that you know and you don't know quite why. It has something to do with the structure of the city, the waterline. Well, you're underwater. Well, that'll do it, right? But there's sort of a murky charm to it. So when you grew up there, like your mother is involved in politics. I mean, were you aware of the... Because there's a lot of different factions jockeying there. I grew up in the suburbs.

I grew up in Algiers. My mother was born and raised in Algiers, which is a, when Bienville came down the Mississippi, he was really smart and he settled in the two highest places in the city, the French Quarter and Algiers. Right. And, but the Algiers is really the suburbs now, but it has a beautiful old section where my mother grew up. But Algiers is, you know, I grew up in an all-American middle class.

I went to public high school. I was a cheerleader. I went to elementary school there. And I didn't grow up like uptown or a French Quarter. Right, right. But that was still a part of my life. Right. Because we're right across the Mississippi River Bridge. Yeah.

We're still all Orleans Parish. Right. So to me, the difference is, it is a melting pot, this city, a true one. Yeah. And it all just merged. It's all one to me. You know, Algiers, French Quarter, Uptown. Right, yeah.

And I have friends who live in all of those places. But in New Orleans, do you come from some interesting French weirdness? No. I know there's a world down there. I'm not Cajun. I'm not Cajun. No. Did you have Cajun friends?

Yes. I dated a Cajun. No. Did you have Cajun friends? Yes. I dated a Cajun in high school. Yeah. But I didn't, I'm not of Cajun descent. I'm from a great mixture of things. My mother is, you know, Lithuanian, Jew, Spanish. Really? Lithuanian, Jew, Spanish, Irish, and German.

Yeah. My father's English and Scottish, but they're quite a combo, my mother and father. English and Scottish. So how many generations of your family were in New Orleans? Three. So going way back. Yes. Do you know how they got there or why?

Yes, of course. I know their history. The whole story? Well, pretty much. I mean, my great-grandmother, my bubby, fled from Lithuania. The Jewish one. Yes. Because she's a bubby.

On a pickle boat. She's my bubby, yeah. A pickle boat? I swear on it. And she was a seamstress, but she came through Ellis Island. Yeah. My niece found her in the records. A pickle boat?

Yep. And she was a seamstress, and she made a living sewing. And then she met my great-grandfather, Joseph Benenguer, who was Spanish aristocracy. Wow. And he was teaching English and taught her English in New York. And they met, married, and moved to New Orleans. He was an importer. He imported the garbanzo bean to New York and made a fortune.

Your grandmother came over on a pickle boat and your great-great, what is it, great-great? Great. No, just great. Just great-great-grandfather was a garbanzo importer. Yes. He introduced garbanzo beans to this culture? That's the story, yes. Wow.

From Spain? From Mexico. Mexico. He imported it in from Mexico. Because they used to grow, there was a place called Garbanza. Yep. And I just found out that it was all Garbanza bean farms. So that's my mother's, my mother has a great history.

And my father, my father's family is more just, you know, very white. That's a Scottish. Scottish English. And they, you know. Everyone knows that story. But my father's father is more of a Yankee. He's part of the Yankee family. My grandmother on my father's side was Southern.

Uh-huh. So that's a great mix. Yeah, it's a great. So you've got a little bit of everything. Yeah, but I grew up in the suburbs. I didn't grow up in some exotic place. I grew up like, we live, you know. I want it to be exotic.

No, it's not. I'm so sorry. But it was right over there, the exotic part. But we were in, I think, a very, you know, New Orleans,

even the suburbs feel European in some extent. Now, when everything happened there, do you go back often? Do you still have family? Oh, yeah.

I'm going home soon, actually. I was supposed to go home and then Barry hit, you know, the storm that really wasn't. But, so everything got canceled. We were kind of having

a family reunion, but it all fell apart, unfortunately. Now, when Katrina hit, did you go back and help and do things? I was in New Orleans four days after Katrina because my mother was still there. So General Honoré got me into New Orleans.

I flew into Baton Rouge and saw my mother. My father was still there, my mother. And I helped with the first responders. I came in. My mother said, I think, I was at Venice. I was at Venice Film Festival with Good Night and Good Luck with George and David Strathairn. And it was brutal. And I called my mother and only her phone worked and George's phones worked. And I said, you know, Mom, do you

want me to come home now? And she said, hell no, I want to come see George Clooney. What happened? No, but I got home. It was tough. It was a really tough time. But the city is back. It's been back for a long time. It recuperated quickly. Let me just get it straight. So your mom ran the city.

Right, but when we were older, not when we were younger. She raised us when we were younger. How many are there of you? There's five girls. I'm the baby of five girls. Oh, my when we were younger. She raised us when we were younger. How many are there of you? There's five girls. I'm the baby of five girls. Oh, my God. I know. I know. Was that just a...

My father grew up in a house with six women and two female dogs, and he's still alive. A lot of red wine later, he's still alive. Was that just because they wanted a lot of kids, or was it a Catholic thing? Were you brought up with religion? No. Well, my mother was raised Catholic, but my father was raised Episcopalian. But they were just, they married very young. They were high school sweethearts.

They were homecoming king and queen in high school. They were very sweet. And they've been together for 66 years. Yeah, yeah. I mean, come on. Wow. And they're both still around. They've been together for 66 years. I mean, come on. Wow. And they're both still around. Yes, they're both still here. They're both 83. Well, 84. 84 and 83. Wow, that is young. Yeah, I'm knocking one. They're very...

And all your sibs? We're all a year apart. I'm 59. My oldest sister is 65. Are you the only one in show business? Yes. My sisters all have real jobs. They're very accomplished women. Very, very, very. And they have raised beautiful children.

I have 10 nieces and nephews that I wish I had given birth to. But I never really wanted children. You didn't? No. Me neither. See? You don't have children? I don't.

I don't have children. I've been through two two wives no children oh that takes a certain type of had two husbands you almost did but you avoided that too i did and don't you feel great about it free spirit you know i am and i knew it then and so you just accepted that yes i mean i've had extraordinary men in my life i've had some incredible relationships in my life and i value them and right that time i was with them um but i i'm i'm a working girl i love my career i love i love just the life i have not now that's well that's amazing i i appreciate hearing that because i did you ever go through a period of like you know why don't I want I I started to question it um I dated a young artist and I just wondered well painter what kind of

artist a painter yeah a beautiful painter and I wondered oh you know I was 38 and I thought okay this is the the marker is you know the the wall is going to go up soon. But then I realized it just wasn't something that – I knew it at a very young age that I didn't want children. I knew it at 14 or 15. So what was my – I just – I kind of knew who I was. And maybe because I was the baby of five girls, I saw everything. I saw, I kind of got to see my sisters emerge ahead of me. I guess you were pretty young when the oldest one probably had a kid, no?

No. My oldest sister never had children. So it's the three middle ones. But yes, my other sisters had children young. so yes i started i had nieces and nephews by the time i was 20 or something wow yeah well that'll help yes and then i thought oh yes i these are like my children but i can give them back and i can leave yeah bye auntie's going yeah i don't for me i don't know that i realized it until I realized it. Like, there's a certain amount of societal pressure and then sometimes pressure from people you're with. But I realized somewhere not long ago that, like, I never really thought about. It was never a priority. It was never a priority. It was never like, I want to, I'm working towards that.

People who want them, they don't even think twice. No, it's just. We're doing this. It's just, it's in their DNA. Yeah. And it's not in mine. But I have great admiration for people who can do it. Yeah.

Do it well. Yeah, sure. I think it's the hardest thing you'll ever do is to raise a kid that loves you. But don't like, you know, we're almost the same age now. Don't you like when you talk to we're almost the same age now, don't you, like when you talk to people in our generation who have kids, it's never a totally great story.

It's always fraught. It is. There is a lot of strife. And at this age, I'm sort of like, and I don't have that strife. Right. I think I dodged a bullet somehow.

I mean, you have a cat. I have a dog. I have three cats. Oh my God. Okay. I have one dog. All right. Yeah. And I'm very happy. Right. I think I dodged a bullet somehow. I mean, you have a cat. I have a dog. I have three cats. Oh, my God. Okay. I have one dog. All right.

Yeah. And I'm very happy. They're fine. They're very consistent. Yes. The problems are either manageable or they're not, but a whole life is not going to be ruined. No. Oh, that's good.

So, do you think that your compulsion, or I don't know, why would I call it that, that your desire to be an actress early on was because, you know, being the last kid, that you required a certain amount of attention that might have been not as forthcoming with the other four? There's five of you? Well, my grandfather that I never knew, sadly, he died young. My mother's father was an actor. By advocation, he was a high school English teacher and football coach. Right.

But he was an actor. He started Nord Little Theater. Where's that? In New Orleans, in Algiers. Okay. Beautiful old little theater. Okay, yeah. So I think somehow he came came somehow his blood filtered down and i i think

i got the desire and the want and the and some amount of talent i hope from him so did you used to go see productions when no he died young i i didn't know him he died when i wasn't he died when my sister my oldest sister was just a year old. But you knew about the theater? I knew of him. Oh, goodness. He's John Patrick Brechtel. He's a beautiful man.

And there's a park named after him. He was a wonderful man. So your family's like sort of really dug into the fabric. Well, into Algiers. Yes. In Algiers, yes. My grandfather was, he started Nord, which was the first, he was the first to allow like Blacks and Whites to play on the same field in the city in the 40s.

He was a really remarkable man. Didn't you do a movie? Didn't you, did you do the Huey Long movie? Were you in that? I did the Huey Long movie. And that was the Sean Penn one? The Sean Penn, yes. You know, nobody ever talks about that movie.

I like that movie. Steve's Alien. It's a beautiful film. And Sean's amazing. Is that based on the Robert Penn Warren book? Yes. Right. It is, yes.

And yeah, Sean's always pretty amazing. He's amazing. Now, when you do that movie, you know, digging into that history of Louisiana, was it like familiar to you? Well, some. The legacy of it? that history of Louisiana. Was it like familiar to you? You're like, the legacy of it? But that's,

you know, my mother's family, they were politically connected and, you know, they knew a generation of the Longs. They did? Yeah, yeah. So it's familiar to me

that being, and we were shooting in, you know, a little in New Orleans but in parts out, you know, Napoleon we were shooting in, you know, a little in New Orleans, but in parts out, you know, Napoleonville, beautiful, you know, places just outside New Orleans. And, but it was, it's a great story. He was a populist. Very much so, yeah. And he had both, you know, good and bad.

Yes. Rich is quite Louisianian. Yeah. Right, right. People who do good and bad. Yeah. Like Ray Nagin, who sadly in jail did some very good things for the city. And then sadly things went wrong.

Why he's in jail? Took funds, Katrina funds. Oh, hmm went wrong. What? Why isn't jail? Took funds. Katrina funds. Oh. Hmm. Yeah. Corruption. Yeah. Well, I mean, like, he was in the wrong era, I guess, because we're living in the most

shamelessly corrupt era where it's just sort of like, yeah, do it. Don't hide it. No. Yeah. See what happens? I know. Small-time grifters abound. No one's ever going to jail again under this administration.

I guess not. Forever. I'm robbing a bank on my way home. There you go. Just say like, hey, Trump said it's okay. Yeah. Only poor people go to jail in Trump's world. But so how does the acting start for you then? I just started in high school. I had a great high school teacher, Mrs. East. And I just started acting in high school. Then I went to LSU and I what did you learn in high school that you still use oh is there anything because like I find that teachers are kind of I learned to dance in high school I was a chargerette I was like a rocket in high school you were I can still kick yeah I swear to god I still have a high kick.

So that was for musicals or was it for the games? No, yeah, we used to perform at... The drill team. Yeah, but we didn't do drills. We weren't a drill team. We were a dance team. Right. And we'd come out in our little, with our hair swinging. Oh, boy.

And we'd hook up and we'd do high kick routines. Yeah. And you could only dance if your legs hit your shoulders wow it was tough yeah and you still got it well no now everyone knows i want to think i want to think i still yeah and then from there you go i went to lsu but then i left lsu and went to fordham and graduated ultimately from Fordham. And that's really. Undergraduate? Undergraduate. I went to Fordham and it was extraordinary. I had a remarkable mentor named Joe Jaszewski at Fordham.

That's in the Bronx, right? Well, I went to the Lincoln Center branch. Okay. That's where the theater program is. Oh, so you're right in the middle of it. You're right there. That's why I wanted to go. Yeah.

And then I went off to Yale School of Drama. You got into Yale. Well, it's the Yale School of Drama, yeah. No, I know, but that's hard. Well, it's hard because they take. Think about, you know, hashtag me too back then, they took 10 men and six women. Now it's equal, of course. 10 and 10, I think.

Yeah. But, yes. What was the, do you remember your audition? Yes. I did. I do. I'm never going to forget it. I did Julia ripping up the letter from Gentleman of Verona.

And I did a scene from The Wool Gathers, a play written in like the 80s. Really? Who wrote that? I can't remember. That's sad. The Wool Gatherer. W-O-O-L. How did you find that play?

Well, because it was a popular play. Or it had just been done on Broadway or off-Broadway. And it had this beautiful monologue. So I remember this. I worked my ass off on them. Yeah. And I got in. I don't know.

Everyone said, oh, you need connections. You need connections. I said, oh, okay. But I'm going to just try. And maybe I don't need connections. You just worked and worked., oh, okay. But I'm going to just try. And maybe I don't need connections. You just worked and worked. I just worked very hard on my auditions. You knew exactly what you were doing when you went in there.

Well, yeah, sort of. You know, you take the train to New Haven. And I had these shoes on that were too big. And I, because I borrowed some dance shoes. I mean, like, you know, like character shoes. Like black. They were too big. For the actual character?

Well, no, just to walk in kind of looking, you know, like an actress. Right. Rap, black skirt. You're acting like an actress. Yeah, yeah. I have my hair. Uh-huh. You did it.

It worked. Yeah, yes, Earl Gister, they let me in, yeah. Well, I mean, I realize that, you know, when you audition for that place, you really have to have your shit together. Because I actually auditioned for it, and I was sort of half drunk, half high. Oh, that's not, that's, well, you never know. And I took some chances that I was not prepared to take, really, and I got very nervous. It's very nerve-wracking. Well, I knew going in that, like, whoever was going on before me this woman was like doing this work like i saw her like you know like doing face work and moving her hands like

she was jazz hands i don't know what it was it wasn't quite jazz hands it was scary hands it was sort of like she was like getting into something and i'm like i'm not ready for this don't you hate when your spirit gets crushed before you go into the room from the other guy standing there i know i i i tried to i remember i actually didn't stay in a bubble i kind of did take in everybody and thought okay i'm here yeah and uh but it's very nerve-wracking and what does it mean to get in there who was the guy that was in charge then ear Earl Gister ran the acting program then. Yeah. And Lloyd Richards was the dean. Lloyd Richards, right. Was the dean at that time, yeah. And then, but they were great.

They were great teachers. Who was in your class? Well, Mr. Big, Chris Noth, Dylan Baker, Jane Atkinson, great playwright, you know, Richard Greenberg, who's still one of my dearest best friends. Evan Yanoulis, great, who now runs Juilliard. Michael Engler, great director. There was a really remarkable collection of people and great costume designers. You know, people have gone on to do Catherine Zuber, you know, who's won like 14 Tonys now or something. So that was the full education?

It was amazing. It was brutal, 18-hour days. But I soaked it all in. I was young. Sometimes people would wait a year or two to go to Yale. But I graduated Fordham in May and started Yale in September. And I think that was helpful because I was ready. I was already in a very scheduled and regulated environment and I didn't have too much time to kind of fatten up. Right. I really. Or get lazy. Yes.

I just, I started, you know, I had two months off and went right in. And you were, and you felt kind of, well, I mean, how was the training of Fordham? I mean, was it pretty intense? Oh, Fordham was remarkable in that I had this incredible man named Joe Giesecke who took me under his wing. And remember, I entered as a junior. Yeah. And he took me under his wing. And I was able to do remarkable things.

I had a gaveler and betrayal. But Yale made me into just, Earl said, I'm going to take all of you out of your comfort zones. And you're going to play a young leading lady or an ingenue or whatever. You're going to play this or the pretty girl. But then I'm going to put you, I'm going to let you play like the bod in Pericles. I'm going to make you play a 300-pound Cajun mama. You're going to play an eight-year-old murderer. You're going to sing. I don't sing. You're going to do everything that is going to shake you and shift you. And I thought I was a very dramatic, serious actress, and I found a sense of humor at Yale.

Like a wild spirit. Yeah. And we had this crazy Romanian third year, Andre Belgrado, brilliant, brilliant man. And we did like Ionesco and Sartre and just this wild, crazy shit. And it was amazing. So that whole process, know you try it forces you to transcend all these weird fears and insecurities and you have to sort of show up for it even if it's horrible and scary yes and there's no there was no film training at the time

it was all theater it was all about yeah but the training was so remarkable that it prepared you for any medium. Sure. I mean, acting is acting. Yeah. And I think if you know, if you're, it's about confidence and it's about knowing who, Yale taught me who I was,

who I am. Deeply. Deeply. To have confidence and believe in myself and my abilities so that I can go any which way.

I can go to the darkness or the lightness. Yeah. And know that you've navigated the territory before a little bit, that you have a foundation that's not going to let you get lost. No, no. Yeah, that's interesting because I don't think I ever thought about it that way because a lot of sort of religious systems, the idea is to sort of annihilate the ego somehow. of religious systems the idea is to sort of you know annihilate the ego somehow and it seems like that by taking all those risks and inhabiting all those different possibilities that you do

at least push your ego aside yes and you kind of got to show up with your true self and and which is what is most important in acting is you know often that is the foundation of, is so much, we can shift physically and externally, but I think at the core we have to have the emotional life always present, and that emotional life being present comes from really knowing your own emotional life. Having some handle on it. Having, and having access to it. Right.

And I guess it's not great to have a lot of unresolved chaos, but maybe it is. Well, if you can access it at the right time. As long as it's not all permeating all the time. As long as it's not always on top of your fellow actors and directors and crew. Which you've seen.

Oh, yes. But what about accents and stuff? Because I was high art. How do you do that? Well, I... That was a big movie for you, right? Yes. Well, it shifted.

It was fortunate at 38 to have your whole life shifted by this great character named Greta and Lisa Cholodenko. The director. The great director, yes. And you say shifted, but how did it begin? Did you start on stage? Yes.

Well, I started on stage. Like Broadway? I did have a Broadway gig pretty early out. I did replace Julie Haggerty in House of Blue Leaves. But then I got cast in The Untouchables, like in 1986. Yeah. I met Brian De Palma, and I adored him. In New York?

I still do. Yeah, I auditioned. I went and auditioned for Mrs. Ness, you know, Catherine Ness. I remember, yeah. So I, you know, I began in theater and started doing some films. How old were you when you did Untouchables? 26, I think, or 25 or 26 when I shot it. I haven't talked to too many people about De Palma. I've talked to some actors about other people,

but you've actually worked with De Palma early on, then like Scorsese later in those works. Yes. They were of that crew oh yes and that in the Untouchables was sort of a a later almost kind of resurgence movie for for him in a way right I remember it was a you know it was sort of I remember it was kind of interesting that you know he had decided to remake that and that you know let's see um the Untouchables yes it was 87 it came out in 87 right well i mean body double was 84 blowout was 81 dressed to kill was 80 80 yeah carrie was 78

like so like he was sort of way into the career and like what was how did that work you auditioned for a casting director and then you went in for him i auditioned for the great Lynn Stallmaster, one of the great gentlemen of the casting world. He's gone now. But I came in, and I had my hair done and some makeup on and a dress. And he said, just come back and meet Brian, but don't wear any makeup. And I'm Southern. I was like, ah. And don't do anything to your Southern. I was like, ah, and don't do anything to your hair.

Yeah. I was like, ah. And he said, wear like a simple girl dress. Yeah. I said, oh, God. Okay. I did. Yeah.

And I walked in the room and Brian, there was a reader there, but Brian De Palma actually read the scene with me. Ah. He played. That's always a good sign. He played Elliot Ness. It's comforting. And he was so sweet.

I think he liked the juxtaposition of the way I looked and the way I sounded. Yeah. I think he liked that I had this kind of deep voice but I looked kind of like a mom. Yeah, right.

So, I don't know. I got cast pretty... I then had to fly to Chicago to meet Kevin Costner. And they cast me in the room. And they said, you've got the part. And as I walked out, they ran and got me. And Kevin said, congratulations.

And I called my agent. And they were like, no, no, no, no. They never do that. They never do that. I said, no, no, no, they did. What, did they think you were lying? That you had a hallucination? That can't be. No, I think they just told me I said, no, no, no, they did. What, did they think you were lying? Yeah. That you had a hallucination? That can't be.

No, I think they just told me I got the part. Yeah. And I'm flying home and I had to go back. I missed the matinee and I flew back to do the evening performance

of House of Blue Leaves. Yeah. But you're all excited. Yes. That must have reinvigorated everything. It was exciting. Now, was Cosner a nice guy?

Yeah. Oh, yes. And, you know handsome and crazy and sexy yeah he's lovely I still know him

yeah yeah because he's just he's had a lot to do with New Orleans after the BP oil spill

he had and so but I've he my nephew has worked with him and so I he's a good man who's your nephew my nephew is Mac All him, and so he's a good man.

Who's your nephew? My nephew is Mac Alsfeld, and he's just to die for. He's a comedy writer. He writes for Melissa McCarthy sometimes, but he's just a one-man band. He write, act, and direct, and he's trying to get his movies made. That's exciting. He's like a lot of people in this industry. He needs a break.

Has he casted you? Well, he hasn't got anything quite up on his feet yet, but I'll be in one of his movies someday, I hope. Please, God. So The Untouchables is the first movie, and then you go from that right to Clint Eastwood? Yes, I go to Deadpool. Yeah. And, you know, Clint right to Clint Eastwood? Yes, I go to Deadpool. Yeah.

And, you know, Clint doesn't cast in the room. You go on tape, and I got a call that you're cast. I said, oh, my God. Yeah, I hear he's sort of like, kind of like very efficient. Efficient. And he expects you to show up. Oh, no, when we're here. You know, I was the female lead of that show.

Yeah. And I'm playing a reporter, a journalist. I had big scenes, big monologues. I mean, big dialogue. And I do one take and he goes, hmm, that was good for me. Was it good for you? And I'd be like,

okay. Some of what is in that movie is one take. Really? and i remember that was my second movie like i wasn't like some cinema actress i was like far from it yeah i mean i was still quite green yeah still struggling a little but oh my god but i. Did you watch it? The Deadpool? I have seen the film, yes. No, but I mean, did you like, you know,

were you able to separate that experience and see that it was the right take? I mean, were there moments where you were like, I could have done that? There were moments, yes. Some of it was shocking that it was, I got it right on that one take. Right.

And then some of it I was like, oh, oh. It could have done better. You know, really big hair and some really bad acting. It's amazing I have any kind of career now. People don't know who are watching it, though. It's an odd thing sometimes. Like, you can get really hung up on one little scene but you know

people are involved in the movie. They're not going to you know what I mean? They're not like no, no, no. This was Dirty Harry. It was Liam Neeson's first film.

It was Jim Carrey's first film. So and then you did TV too? I did some TV. I did some cable movies. Episodic stuff? No, I didn't really. I did Spencer for Hire which was the first at spencer yeah what was that guy's name the actor ulrich robert uric robert robert uric the nicest man

and i did another movie with him and then he unfortunately passed away shortly after that it's funny when you talk when people talk about these tv actors you know a lot of times they're they're always nice. And they're like some of them, like I was talking to somebody about Frank, William Conrad about canon. Yeah. And, you know, these guys at a certain point in their career, they show up, they're barely there. Robert York was very, he was very, he just was kind. But he probably had a slight element of phony in him,

but he was very drawn to the actors in the scene and what was happening, and he couldn't believe that I'd never acted. That was the first thing I did before. The Untouchables was my first movie, but I did Spencer for Hire. Yeah, that was the first thing you ever did. And he couldn't believe it. He thought the crew was pulling his leg when they said, she's never been in front of a camera. He was like, come on.

Oh, yeah. So I'd be like, okay. I'd be like, wait, where are you going? Just stand right here and then you're going to move there. Okay, okay. But you did have all that. Certainly in TV, that's where theater training helps i mean hitting your fucking mark but it also in it and i had contrast certain kind of

confidence that i could okay i can i can do this you know it's all about the pretend yeah it's pretend i know it's all about just entering another world right and existing yeah as best as you can in that world. Do you do things when, like, because I talk to actors now and I started talking to them more

and it's hit or miss, but like, you know, because when I started doing more acting, I was like, give me a lesson. What do I got to do?

But really, it comes down to that. It's like, just be present and pretend. Yes. PP. That's it.

That's the system. The PP. I wish it was a third P. Maybe I'll have to find a third P. The three Ps. It always seems to come in three, the system. The PP. I wish it was a third P. Maybe I'll have to find a third P. The three Ps. It always seems to come in three, the letters. But PP is different. Yeah.

But are there things that you make sure you do when you enter a set or a scene? I mean, we'll get back to the accent thing because that to me is like, that seems like, I don't know how to do that. How would you? It's a confidence thing, I guess. It's more more technical but then you have to make it less technical but anyway but is there anything i do well like do you like say like okay here i am those are that guy's shoes you know there's the camera guy yes but i work in a i think someone told me a french way i think i everybody in the in the crew and in the scene is in the scene. I don't think of it as, you know, of course I don't want excess people in my sight lines. But everybody is a part of the scene, especially in emotional scenes.

I think it's important. Everybody you mean the crew? The crew, the cameraman, everybody's in with you. Everybody's in it and part of it. So you don't get self-conscious and start to break down the emotional life you've built for this character. It's all kind of one. And I usually, when I'm doing an emotional scene, I usually stay in the scene even while they relight it or adjust the camera. Really?

Yeah. You just hold the emotion, hold the focus? I stay in the world. I stay in the world that I've pretended myself to get into, whatever I've entered. But I stay on the set as much as I can. Yeah. I think that aids me. It's just what aids me.

Yeah. Some people, it's best we do it. Like when they go to lunch. No, I go to lunch. I'm just going to be here on the couch. Yeah, I'm just going to stay here. In character. Yes.

So how was the shift into high art? Because that character is pretty great, kind of loopy, strung out. It's a great character. Like aristocratic German weird hipster. It's not even a hipster, is it? No, no, she was just a, yeah. Oh, you think she was a hanger-on, washed up? How did you kind of put her together?

Just failing. Yeah. And a heroin addict. Yeah. And losing her life, her career, her love of her life. Yeah. And, you know, as an actor, I think we always think everything has to be close to us. I'm none of those things.

You know, I'm sadly not lesbian. I'm not German. I've never even smoked pot. Yeah. I've never done any drug. Yeah. And yet, here I am playing a heroine act. Well.

Well. But I understood her. I understood Greta emotionally. I understood that life. I was 38 at the time. I had struggled in this industry for the first time through some of my 30s. Yeah. Which. Why? What happened? I just couldn't get a great job. After the Untouchables and the Deadpool. Well, Deadpool and then I did a couple of other things and then I was on Broadway and a great play Eastern Standard

and I suddenly found myself really struggling. Yeah. And I think it's important. To get work. For people to know. I think people are like, oh, my God, you worked all your life. I didn't. I had struggles in my 30s.

Some really big struggles to get a job that I really, to get a good job. Right. And what was the existential, like, what, because, you know, I've been through that in the career you've chosen and you don't really have a backup plan. When you were in the darkness, what was the thought? Well, fortunately, I had made some money. Right. And I had some money to live on. Yeah.

And I did a couple of cable movies that we won't talk about. It's so funny, like, actors have these shameful things they've done that are completely available to watch. We're like, I don't even know what happened there. But I, I, but I, I struggled, but I had the support of like my family and my sisters and my friends, and I had great friends. And and it is and so I struggled for about I think it was like three years and then so finally when I got to high art I did this small independent film that I still is one of the greatest things I've ever done called Pharaoh's Army with Chris Cooper which if you ever like Chris Cooper's kind of a genius I haven't seen him lately it was his

first like big break really I gotta watch it's called Pharaoh's Army. It's directed by Robbie Henson. And it is a beautiful, beautiful film. What's it about? It's about the Civil War and it's this small, tiny.

He took the Civil War and distilled it to one farm. Yeah. Southern woman. Yeah. It's Kentucky. So it's brother

against brother. But it's a union soldiers come in. My father's, my husband is all fighting. I have a son, a young son, and five union soldiers come in and take my farm from me. And Chris is the leader. And he is breathtaking in this. He's breathtaking.

And it's a beautiful tiny quiet extraordinary little film robert joy is in it it's it's this really remarkable film and he robbie henson shot it in kentucky in danville kentucky he and his father built the cabin that i live in the farm wow hand built all yeah it's really one night if you remember, it's called Pharaoh's Army. And that was sort of, creatively, that was a turning point for you? I did that right. I got Pharaoh's Army, and it brought me back to life. It saved me.

Isn't that weird how one thing can do that? It was this extraordinary time. I met Chris Cooper. I got to act with Chris Cooper, and Robertbert joy and these other great actors in this piece and it was as though i had i had been on life support and i was taken off and lived and and it's so wild and it was just and then after that i got high art because that was like when I was 36 or 37 and then I got high art. Isn't that wild though, Cal, like, you know, that, you know, as an actor, you're kind of at the behest of the job, right? So, and you need to take jobs.

Oh, you do. And you can only find, you know, so much satisfaction or creative passion for, you know, that the job is going to enable you to do without being completely delusional. that the job is going to enable you to do without being completely delusional. So once you start doing things that don't satisfy you, it's so horrible because it spins you out into kind of like a… Well, it puts you in a place, a less than place, and everything starts to deteriorate. Right, right. All the things, the foundations you had all start to crumble.

Buckle, yeah. And you find yourself in this almost gothic situation like every you know and forces are working against me and my you know show business is horrible and but it it the facade yeah and and it is important in in in this industry that we have a facade. Right. We have to have an exterior. Right. But we have to have a very strong interior, of course.

But when everything starts to crumble. But then the beauty of our industry is that great art does save us. Right. It takes that one thing to just sort of re- It takes one great director, one great actor, one great writer. Yeah. Right. That takes that one thing to just sort of re... It takes one great director, one great actor, one great writer. Yeah. One, you know, it takes great people around you and suddenly the world is a different color.

And then you got to just hit it again. You got high art. I got high art and I... So you were saying that you related to her on some level. Yes. I understood, Greta. I understood her pain. Yeah. As corny as that sounds some level. Yes, I understood, Greta. I understood her pain, as corny as that sounds. Yeah.

No, I mean. I did. I just understood her wry slides. Yeah, the sort of like kind of romantic nihilism. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And what did you do to sort of like research heroin um i met with a heroin addict a former heroin addict is that what they brought in as a consultant

well or as a friend i found someone that i happen to know someone tangentially right and i also what you know i this is as an actor, I used what was happening. We were in the biggest, it was 98, and it was one of the biggest heat waves in the history of New York. And we were in Brooklyn with no money. And I had on pleather pants. So you were naturally woozy? I just used all of what was happening. Just the heat, the exhaustion.

We were shooting 15, 16-hour days and coming back, going home and coming back. We were just... Just the actual... The externals became my internals. Right. Yeah, yeah. And that's what I used to find and form Greta.

Every day I'd get on the set and start to tip. And that's what you were talking about before, that it's all present. It's all part of the scene. Everything that surrounds us is in the scene with us. And then all of a sudden you were different. You were like in the game again. I was in the game. Doing a Tom Hanks movie.

Yeah, I did Green Mile. Yeah. I did so many things. The Pledge, that movie is like sort of, it's a bizarre movie. It's like it's a real art movie. It is, but it's beautiful for me. Yeah, and you work with Sean as a director. I work with Sean as a director.

I had to fly all the way to outside of Vancouver and cry and weep for three days and get back in a plane. I swear to God. I had to fly in because my child is murdered. I had to fly in, have a murdered child for three days. I had, what, two scenes or something, and then fly back home. I remember flying home, there wasn't enough free wine. On the plane. Once i got on that plane i just thought they were like would you like dinner i was like no just keep the chardonnay near so like it's been pretty satisfying i kept going yeah well it that you know, but it doesn't mean

that I haven't had struggle or something. No, no, I'm not assuming that. That I haven't had heartbreak. Yeah,

heartbreak. Emotionally and, emotionally and, and, and, you know, professionally and personally. I mean,

it's what keeps us going. It's always. But don't you get to a point, ma'am, where you just like, do I have to go through that again? Yes, that's what keeps us going. It's always. But don't you get to a point, man, where you're just like, do I have to go through that again? Yes. That's what we think.

And we say, oh, here I am again. With relationships or work or whatever. Yes, with relationships and work. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm just too old for this. Right. And then you're sort of like, you know what? And I'm weeping every night, like brokenhearted. And I'm like, I'm too old for this. But it doesn't stop.

But it doesn't end. And you can't protect yourself because when you try to protect yourself it's like is there a way I can just go halfway and be and be okay and just ride that I've done a lot of halfway it's worse because then you're not heartbroken but you're full of resentment yes and you start to die inside yes and you're like I can't do this And you start to die inside. Yes. And you're like, I can't do this either. Yeah, I can't. You can't do either.

You got to put yourself out there and just get your heart stepped on. Yes. Good. Well, that's great. Good for you out there with your heart. How are you now? Are you in the middle of a heartbreak or are you all right? No, I'm not in the middle of a heartbreak.

I'm feeling very good. I'mbreak. I'm feeling very good. I'm good. I'm feeling very 59. And I'm happy. Good. You seem happy. I have lovely people in my life, plural. Good.

That's good. Many of them. Surround yourself with lovely people 14 very exciting life what time is it i've got i got i got lovely people to hook up with i'm in glendale actually you know one is in glendale good what is it what are you near a thousand no you want to text them? But like far from heaven though, like when you were presented with that project, what was your reaction to his vision? Like immediately, because it's like a very specific thing.

Well, I loved his other films, but I could see that it was almost a painting, almost a... Yeah, a Technicolor painting. Do you know they actually painted the leaves? I mean, the artistry that went into just the physical production of that movie was astonishing.

They painted the leaves outside. He wanted that Douglas Sirk thing. That Douglas Sirk, and he achieved it. He did. He did. And Julianne Moore, who I have not talked to, who I fucking love. Amazing.

And she's everything you think she is. Really? Yes. Like a gal, just a true, real, beautiful person. But as an actress, deeply well-trained and deeply in control of her trip. And a real consummate professional. I loved working with her. We were two gals, two broads who were like, let's just shoot.

Let's go. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And in that environment he's like i he like as a director like when i talked to him he was one of those people where you know i've i've taken these i've talked to these directors who create things that are you know uh dense and and and take risks and not immediately understandable and you know just to sort of like and I end up just sort of like, just explain. And they don't. They follow their vision. Well, the vision didn't impact, I don't think, the actual acting.

Well, that was one of the most controlled things he did. It was a very controlled. Our marks, I remember, were very precise. Right. You know, the great cinematographer, Edward, you know, we had to, it was very crafted. Yeah. But within the scenes themselves, we still had to be present and emotional and connected. You know, the last thing he wanted was us to be lifted.

Right. In some way. Yeah, I thought that was like up to that point, it was really the most kind of controlled film he'd made. Because he made some movies that were sort of like, like Safe. You watch Safe and I'm like, what is this? What's happening? I like that film. I loved it. I loved it. I loved it. But it took me for some reason longer to realize that art is not going to make sense all the time. And you just have to let it hit you and do what you will with it.

And it's a memorable movie. But I couldn't really exactly tell you what it's about. No. I know she had problems. Yes. What was Juarez Van Trier? What was that working with that guy? Well, that was crazy because-

What was it called? Dogville. Yeah. And he's a true eccentric. And that movie, I remember we had just chalk outlines of our houses and everything was mimed. But my father went to see it. And my father is, you know, my father.

This is going to be good. And you know how we had to pretend opening the doors and pretend we had, like, a kitchen or a bedroom or pretend. That's so hard. But my father saw it, and he was like, Petty, I think you needed doors. Father saw it and he was like, Petty, I think you needed doors. That was his only note? But I think it's perfect. So you had to mime a whole movie?

We had to mime everything, yeah. We had to mime our actions and our things. We had certain things that were real. Remember when I break the little creatures of her? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we had to mime going in. Did you have any experience with mime? Some at Yale, but we were kind of like, oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I got it. I got it. It was an elective. Yeah, yeah. I've got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, we're going to lunch. Okay.

Okay. Well, that's one of those risks. Like, you know, like heading into a movie like that, we realize like this is crazy. But because of the work you put in place, it's like, I've done crazy things before. Yeah. But this character, like this sharp object thing,

it's almost like a modern Gothic thing. Yes. Yeah. Now, when you play like a monster who's charming do you like how much do you like is is it all in the script for you like did you start there like you're like well i i i it it does it has to begin there and i had um It has to begin there. And I had exquisite writing, I did.

Right. And from there, I've spoken about Adora often. And she is one of the most complicated characters I've ever played. And, of course, I've played Blanche DuBois in the two Our Kindred Spirits. Yeah, that's right. I felt that. In very different ways. But Gillian is her own voice. Of course, I've played Blanche DuBois in the two Our Kindred Spirits. Yeah, that's right. I felt that. In very different ways. Yeah. But Gillian is her own voice.

And Marty Noxton, there was a team of exquisite writers. And so I benefited from having this remarkable character and dialogue. This was, Gillian Flynn created this character. Yeah. character and dialogues this was uh gillian flynn created this character and yet i think it became more expansive from the book and she let it go to those um the darker and the darkness and the lightness kind of melding and the struggles of a woman who, it's a cyclical violence. It's generational violence. It's the abuse of my mother wrought on me and that I, moving forward, my own children. But you can't really, if you're in a Gothic world, you can't think of it as Gothic.

And Jean-Marc Vallée is the most on-the-ground, feet-on-the-ground director, one of the most visceral, emotional directors I've ever worked with. And improvisational and loose and free. And I think, and I loved that because this character could have been almost statuesque. Right, right. And almost, but he kept my feet slightly off the ground. It gives it like, you know, you believe that you live in the house and you like, it's not, yeah, it's interesting.

That house, first of all, the production designer was, he should win an Emmy. That house was, it was all built. It wasn't anything that was all built. And, but that house was, I think it was haunted truly. Wow. And it had a life of its own. And every time I entered, something would come through me. And it was my house.

It was hard to leave it, actually. But it did help inform me and help carry me through just the nature of it. But it was, you know, a door is to be at the age I am and to still have people demanding such an expansive range from you is exactly what you want. Yeah. Because what else, you know, I've done so much work at this point, and I'm, I want, I hate the word,

but I want the challenge. I want, I just didn't know if I could do this. Really? Mm-hmm. I wasn't sure. I thought, my goodness. But I never judged her. Yeah. Never, never judged her. Yeah.

Never, never, never. I guess you really can't. You cannot. Anybody you play. I couldn't. Because then you diminish the possibility for her humanity. Yes. And that's what I thought was important.

Yeah. Is that, you know, this is a woman who has monstrous deeds, who does monstrous deeds. who has monstrous deeds, who does monstrous deeds, but, you know, in the end, she's probably just as screwed up as everybody else. Yeah, you have to, it has to be some, it has to be empathetic somehow. I mean, she's mentally ill,

and there was no one really to save her, sadly, because there was no one really to take care of her, because her husband is complicit so is that aren't they always that's why i don't have one either way everyone's complicit if shit is bad takes two to tango man that's what they say but like after playing somebody like blanche do you like what was that a resource? Yes. I found the lack of oxygen at times very Blanche-like. Now, when you do someone like Blanche Dubois, I mean, this is a role that has been played by many people.

So when you approach something like that, how do you find the mechanics of a character like Blanche has been played a million times? Well, again, you have to come at it for what you know. I had to come at it from my life, from my existence, my southern upbringing. I had to bring to bear the life I had lived. And, you know, Blanche required every molecule of you. And I honestly believe that Tennessee Williams wrote the part as such that you, the actress playing it somewhat does really have a nervous breakdown. I could barely function while I did it.

Really? All I could do was lie in bed all day. Yeah. And then go to the theater. And then I'd go out at night and maybe have some bourbon and then go home and go to bed. And I would be in bed all day with my dog. I had an assistant who would walk my dog,

and then I'd go to the theater. That's all I did. So it's a role you have to survive. Yes. And you loved it? I don't know that love is the word. And you loved it? I don't know that love is the word.

I lived it. And I'm thankful I had that experience. It's one of those things, it's like, I guess, as an actor, to be in a real production of that play, it's kind of like an Olympiad. You know, like you're an Olympic athlete. It's like, I've trained. And I had to remain, I had to keep blinders on because if I, for a second thought, every night when I would start, I was told to take a streetcar

named Desire. Travel. I used to remember the open line. I was told to take a streetcar named Desire. Ride six blocks and get off at Elysian Field. And so I remembered I just had to get myself there. I couldn't think about where I had to go. And similar with Adora, I didn't think about where Adora was going. I took her one

day at a time, one moment at a time. Yeah. And had to just keep her as buoyant as possible. Yeah, yeah. In order before the darkness descended.

But same with Blanche. But with Blanche you had to do it every night. Well, we had a brutal schedule. It was the Kennedy Center. It was eight shows a week, and so we did an off-Broadway schedule. We did Friday to Saturday to Sunday. Oh, my God.

So they basically had a stretcher for me every Sunday night. That's crazy. And an IV of bourbon. And I was somewhat carried out of the theater. It was tough, but it was amazing. Is it recorded? I don't know.

I don't think. Oh, God. Please don't look at it. They might have recorded it. It might be somewhere in the archives of the Kennedy Center. But it was never put together as a... No, it was never on PBS or something. Now, were you able to do these more fun TV shows?

Yeah. Like Broad City and Parks and Rec and stuff. Oh, Broad City was divine. I mean, Broad City, those girls. But you were able to kind of like, well, that's going to be fun. Yeah, no. I mean, I instance, those girls. But you're able to kind of like, well, that's going to be fun. Yeah, no. I mean, I played this like angry alcohol, like just had to show up for two hours and play this just, yeah, yeah. Just this raging, horrible, like drunken hostess.

Yeah, yeah. No, I love doing comedy and doing SNL, doing Mother Lover. I mean, I love doing comedy. The other thing I forgot to ask you about was the Shutter Island business. Oh, yes. Well, that was, what a moment. Again, getting to work with Leo and Marty. Leo's pretty good, huh?

Oh, he's, yes. He's intense, and yet he has a great sense of humor. Did you see that once upon a time in Hollywood? Yes. Oh, my God. Like, it was like, I don't care what anyone says about anything about that movie. It's just like, he's like, what is that? I know.

There's like the levels of the thing. But all of them are great. I thought Brad did that. Oh, yeah, definitely. But like that last scene at the gate, it was like I couldn't believe it. I know. I don't even know how. But he's a shapeshifter, Leo. Leo really can.

He's a very handsome man. Yeah. Thankfully, he wasn't trapped in that. You know, he's played, he's done, he's been able to really be a character, like a leading man. But that's the best part of our industry is when we are no longer trapped by the externals we become we're better actors

when our than who when who we are what we look like fades and we become because I think

then our real spirits emerge I think our real you know our joie de vivre comes roaring out of us right

because like there's a couple things. It's like time is getting shorter, and you don't give us a fuck about as much. No, you don't. So there's a freedom in that. There's a freedom, a real freedom. But he also gets to work with great directors.

Sure, and Scorsese was great. Yes, of course. He's an actor's, actor's, actor's director a million times over. He loves actors, and he's so remarkable with them and creates such a conducive environment to be free and crazy and loose, and you never want to leave the set.

You just don't because it's just, you know, just try it again, do this. You know, wait, wait, wait, wait. He's excitable. Go over there, come in. What are you, what are are you Take out your canteen You got a canteen I was like yeah

I have a wound on my leg I was like I can't walk yet I mean we just He was like yeah yeah yeah I mean I had not Here I am Just this woman in a cave

It was wild Yeah It was wild But exhilarating Yeah Exhilarating Do you Are you a shapeshifter i hope so i hope i can be at times it seems like you are i want to become other people but still

have a part of me in there yeah i think that's a unique i think you are one but i not not certainly it's it's not not all actors are and it's a rare thing that people who can really inhabit. But I think more people in this industry are wanting to be them. I think more people are fighting against what they look like and what a studio might want to preserve in them. Well, there's no studio anymore. It's like everything's breaking apart. Well, in a way, I mean, independent film, big, you know, is really on the rise. Sure. It is taking over. I mean, The Station, big, you know, is really on the rise.

It is taking over. I mean, The Station Agent was an independent movie, wasn't it? Oh, yes. Yes. Very. We shot it for $500,000. Are you kidding me? It was huge. It was huge.

It was that little film, a little film that could. Beautiful. So what's going on now? What are you working on other than promotion? I'm attached to this beautiful film that uh that i'm we're hoping we get the financing together um directed by um andrea paloro he did hannah with um charlotte rampling a beautiful italian director and it's a remarkable movie oh yeah um remarkable he's a stunning director so i'm in the process of hoping to get that made.

I've got another beautiful film called Light on Broken Glass that I'm trying to get made. And I'm attached to a few things. So I'm not working right now. You're busy, though. But I'm not busy. Well, no, not really. Well, you're doing great things. But I have, you know But I'm not busy. Well, no, not really. Well, you're doing great things. But I have, I'm, you know, I'm campaigning.

There's no, I think what I'm trying to say is there's no dread. There's just night, there seems to be like, you know, projects you want to be involved with, excited about, and, you know, could happen. But I think I'm one of many women who are in their late 40s, 50s, 60s. We're having a little bit of a heyday now. We have jobs. We have work. We have people who really want to hire us and hire us often. So I'm just riding the wave.

I saw Alice and Janney the other night. God, she's remarkable. And I'm just going to ride the wave. Yeah. You should do a movie with her. I'd be in heaven. It'd be great. I'd be in heaven. Well, it was great talking to you. Yeah. You should do a movie with her. I'd be in heaven. That'd be great. I'd be in heaven.

Well, it was great talking to you. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you. Thank you so much. That was Patricia Clarkson. I love her. I love, I seriously love her.

Again, HBO's Sharp Objects. She's great in it. Nominated for the Best Supporting Actress in a Limited Series or Movie category. And go look at her resume. Go see some of the movies we discussed. I re-watched High Art. She's fucking great in it. Alright.

Okay? Are you okay? Go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all the upcoming tour dates. Now I'm gonna play some guitar. Some Nick Cavey chords maybe. No echo. Just a little bit of crunch.

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