WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1052 - Bruce Dern

Episode Date: September 9, 2019

When Bruce Dern showed up at The Actors Studio, Lee Strasberg told him he was going to be their Frankenstein Monster and Elia Kazan told him “you’re not into acting, you’re just into being.” But they also told Bruce he would never be a leading man and no one would know who he is until his 60s. It was the start of a career that spanned hundreds of movies, TV shows and plays, and shows no signs of letting up. Bruce goes through all of it with Marc, including his experiences working with legends, shooting John Wayne in the back, being friends with Jack Nicholson, and finally becoming that leading man with a breakthrough performance at age 79. This episode is sponsored by Vital Farms and Stamps.com. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

lock the gate all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck nicks what the fuck buddies what the fucking niece does what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it how's it going whoo, I was away all weekend. If I go away for two days, I feel like I've been on a fucking space mission, man. I mean, I guess I kind of have. Have I? Look, I can barely remember yesterday. That's what's happening.

I don't know if it's by virtue of the fact of technology, engagement, exhaustion, mental. I don't know what it is. But each day, as it goes by, as it gets behind me, feels very far away. I think it has something to do with travel, really. That's why I'm saying all travel is space travel. But let's not. Let's not. I'm not going to mentally noodle right away. Come on,

man. There's business to be had, to be taken care of. I'll be at JFL 42 in Toronto on Thursday, September 19th at the Sony Center for the Performing Arts. Sounds big, right? It is. Get some tickets, will you? I'm at the Vic Theater in Chicago on September 20th. That's sold out. I don't know why I keep saying it. Maybe it's just so I can say that's sold out. And then I'll be at the Masonic Temple in Detroit on Saturday, September 21st, which I'm excited about. That is actually in Detroit.

It's not outside Detroit. It's in there, and I haven't been there before. And I've heard there's some cool shit. After Detroit, I'll be at the Pantages Theater in Minneapolis on Sunday, September 22nd. I always enjoy going there. I think we'll have a good time. I think some of the people who live there

might have seen me at Acme not too long ago, but it's always different. It's always different with me. Like last night or the night before last in Seattle, I was battling ghosts on stage. Yeah, that happens occasionally. You're going to tell me I'm not a space traveler. Are you going to honestly look me in the eye and say, you're no astronaut? Are you going to do that? No. Listen, it looks like I have more business to deal with. Oh yeah. Well, basically it's just that I wanted to make sure you

know that all of my tour dates can find them all at WTFpod.com slash tour. You'll see I've added some Dynasty typewriter dates here in Los Angeles for October 5th and 6th before I head to Philadelphia, Washington, D.C., and Boston the following week. Now, not to disappoint anybody, but me really, I do not believe we will be shooting the special in Boston. Looks like we're going to have to move that because we got to – there's some things we want to do with cameras that we can't do in there, so it's going to be – it might be a different trip. It might be a different – we might be looking at a different joint, different space, different option.

I'm pretty sure about that, but i don't think that should is that going to piss you people off i mean is that going to be like well that's the only reason i was going marin hasn't been back to boston in a couple years but if i can't be on camera the back of my head fuck him i'm not going but i'll let you know for sure okay i don't i don't know for sure i want to thank everyone in vancouver and seattle for coming out that was exciting right that in that is like space travel isn't it well let me explain like okay so last week i'm here i'm doing the things i'm recording i'm doing my stuff right then on friday i take off i fly to vancouver I get there in the early afternoon. I check into, I think, honestly, my favorite hotel in the world.

I don't even know why. I can't explain it to you. But the Rosewood, Georgia in Vancouver, in downtown Vancouver, is just the fucking nicest place I've ever stayed. It's got nothing to do with nothing. It's a fairly high-end hotel, but there's just something about it. I think it's an old place. i think it was a renovated place i think elvis might have stayed there which doesn't you know automatically make it a good thing or that he like i think there's a 50 50 chance you have some fairly negative energies in the uh in the bricks at that place i don't know what went

on there but i think it was the kind of place in an earlier time. But that being said, it doesn't matter. There's just something about the rooms. They're so quiet and peaceful, and there's something about the beds. And this isn't even a paid advertisement. I travel to a lot of hotels, and there's just something magic about that place. I get there. I feel better.

The food's okay and everything else. It's a nice-looking place. I can't even fucking explain it to you, and I'm not going to say that maybe it's like in a blanket of warm spirits. I don't know what it is. There's just something about the peace of mind to get at that joint. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that every time I go to fucking Canada, I am so relieved to be out of the psychic garbage that is infusing the very air we breathe in this country. Just the day-to-day onslaught, torrential, sideways downpour of hateful bullshit.

The never-ending juggernaut that's got everyone a little a little fidgety a little aggravated a little nervous it's just seeping into our pores so maybe it's got something to do with that maybe i should take that into consideration i think the first time i stayed at that place was even earlier on into this this fucking evil mud that we're walking through on a day-to-day basis and i mean that in a psychic way psychic hot mud is what we're dealing with so maybe just the fact i get to vancouver and it's a nice bed i'm like this is heaven canada but i you know but it was nice charlie demers uh opened for me we went out for some greek food talked it out worked out some shit shared some stories got to the venue laid it down and it was fucking great it was a great show great people uh love Jules Leather they they brought me uh Jules and Josh

brought me some shoes that I'm gonna wear with my suit when I have to wear my suit hopefully maybe when I get to go to the premiere of the Joker movie, which won the big Lion Prize in Venice. I'm only in one scene, but it's exciting. Something's exciting, man. Feels exciting to me. Sort of trust. You can watch still. Anyway, so that was Vancouver.

But, you know, you just go, and I'm in Canada. We're doing the thing one night, and then I go to sleep in the fancy Rosewood, Georgia hotel. I wake up, have some nice breakfast. And then I go to the airport and I fly to Seattle. Seattle is the magic city of grayness. It's not light magic. It's not dark magic. It's just gray magic. Just a bunch of weird poetic possibilities and a sort of ill-defined sense of uh social structure in seattle it's clearly a lot of tech money a lot of nerd money a lot of money in general but there's also a a kind of a wild ass progressive streak nice balance of people getting all kinds of interesting people but i performed at the more theater which is fucking haunted man it's one of these 19 early 1900 vaudeville joints it's like it's pretty it's

kind of like complicated inside a lot of trails and paths and tunnels and shit and during the show i guess in after the fact the lights were fucking going on and off a little bit like you know ghosts can go fuck themselves i'm not a huge believer in ghosts i'm not saying they don't exist but generally are they really that frightening they're fucking you know disembodied spirits folks i mean are they really making that bunch trouble i mean i'd like to think that the ghosts at the moor when they were fucking with the lights and making weird sounds uh stage left that um they were enjoying themselves i'm gonna frame it that way you can tell me different because if they were trying to scare me they didn't i um they were enjoying themselves i'm gonna frame it that way you can tell me different because if they were trying to scare me they didn't i think they were just having a good time

but there's that that that that space is a little little heavy in the gray magic a lot of possibilities in the more theater there's a few theaters like that i did one the carnegie library in in pittsburgh That place is haunted to fuck. Like, just bad news haunted. Like, they don't even want you there. I think that's what it was called. I've never had a more tangible, is it tangible I want? Visceral experience of just bad juju than that joint, man.

Just sort of like the ghosts are like, dude, we're sleeping. Get the fuck out. We've had it with this. People and bodies that are occupied with souls. Get the fuck out. We've had it with this, people and bodies that are occupied with souls. Get the fuck out. This is not your party. This is our space now. There's that vibe. So the show is great in Seattle. El Sanchez opened for me. They were good. You know, that's the weird thing about that. She told me me oh see i just did it i just did it but that's habit you can break habit yeah just gotta lock in gotta lock in gotta lock into those pronouns that seem uh uh different than what you brain and face wants to say so the world

continues to end life continues to go on it's's getting hot. It's getting hot, folks. Did I mention that Bruce Dern is on the show today? Fucking Bruce Dern. That's going to happen. You're going to get that in your head in a minute. Saw an old friend up in Seattle. My old buddy, Lauren. Lauren the welder from New Jersey. Lauren. Yeah. This is a woman I've known since college. I've talked about her before. She's a profound influence on my life.

And now we've known each other. Jesus Christ. We've probably known each other 86, 96, 2006, 2000. Like almost 35 years. She knew me before I did comedy when I was a college kid. Wearing the long coat with the round glasses and the second hand shirts. Yes. Lauren. Hadn't seen her in about four or five years.

Always kept up with her. It's wild, man. You kids. You kids with your friends. Wait till you've had friends for 35 years it's crazy it's what's wild is you check in with the frequency man you know it's like i haven't seen her in a long time but we've always we've always seen each other on and off over time but uh but it's been a while and they her and her husband, Vincent, came to the show, and we went out to dinner after, and, you know, it just, you know, there's,

when you know somebody that long, either you're going to tap into the frequency or you're not. Like, either the frequency holds up or it doesn't. Do you know? Like, if you've known, you know people a long time, you know, you don't keep up with their lives, you don't know what they're up to, you don't know, you probably don't, might you know you don't you don't keep up with their lives you don't know what they're up to you don't know you probably don't might not know anything about what their lives have been like for the last decade or whatever in any nuance but usually you can tap

into that frequency that defined your relationship with that person there's a connection there a wire that just needs to be attached and you're like like, there they are. You know, you just kind of pull away the age, the, you know, whatever's happened over time, their life. And it just kind of, it kind of pulls back and it enables you to connect to that frequency that you, you had with that person. And it's, it's a beautiful thing, really. It doesn't, that, that, that fundamental thing doesn't really change that much. I mean, people change and there's a weight to it that shifts, you know, given whatever people go through in their lives. But that weird fundamental connection, if you can get it back, it's kind of beautiful. It's a spark of some kind that holds up. It's sad when it goes away.

It's sad when you know somebody from way back and you see them again and you're like, ah, the wire won't connect. I don't think I don't, we can't connect. It's nice to see you, but I'm sorry that the wire, the wire is just not hooking up, buddy. You don't have to say that to him,

obviously, but it's a little, it's a little depressing when that happens. But, uh, that didn't happen with Lauren. I talk like that. Cause that's how she talks.

I don't know if she'd be happy if, uh, I made fun of her like that, but it's not really making fun. I, I, I see it as a homage, as an homage to her New Jersey-ness. But she doesn't listen anyway, so it's no big deal. So I think that's it.

I did almost two hours, both shows. And, you know, they got loopy, this no nicotine thing. Two weeks yesterday with the no nicotine. And, yeah, it's a little loopy little loopy little loopy still and i still want it man and i'm eating but uh i think i'm gonna hold out i think i'm gonna be all right so look there's a bruce durn movie he's in a lot of movies right now, but I just watched the new movie Freaks. It's kind of a sci-fi trippy thing. He plays kind of a creepy ice cream man that turns out not to be creepy, but turns out I can't really explain it to you. It's slightly sci-fi ish, but not like techno sci-fi more like, um, are those people real sci-fi? Who's in charge sci-fi?

You know, Emile Hirsch is in it. And it's an interesting little indie movie. But Dern is also in everything. You know, he had that Oscar-nominated turn a couple years back in Nebraska. He plays Spawn, old man Spawn, at the Spawn Ranch in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. He's always in a movie, Bruce Dern is, but he's one of the legends. He's one of the guys from back in the day,

and he's got a head full of that history, and it's pretty intact. The head full is intact. So this is me and the legendary Bruce Dern. You've done, you know, more movies than almost anybody. Well. At this point. I've done over a hundred, I think.

At this point, how do you decide? Well, I'm having a string of luck since the movie Nebraska. Oh, yeah. That kind of made people rediscover that I had some game. Yeah. And now it's just a question of enduring. Yeah. I'm 83, but if I hadn't broke my hip, I'd be racing this week.

Racing on a bike? No, no, a running race. Yeah? I was a big runner in school, and I went to the Olympic Games in 56 at 800 meters for America. Where was the Olympics in 56? Melbourne. Yeah? And how'd you do?

I didn't make it to the final. Oh. But that's exciting, huh? Well, you have to run four races, and you've got to be in the top nine in every race. I was in the top nine and three in the fourth one. I didn't qualify for the final. But you still do it. Oh, yeah. And your knees are all right?

Yeah, it's not my knees. I tore my quadriceps 12 years ago. Yeah. I tore my quadricep yeah 12 years ago yeah and then last fall running a race at the Silver Lake Reservoir I tripped and fell and landed on my hip

yeah and um that was it I didn't have to have a replacement I just had to have the femur fixed yeah

but it's taken 8 months it's annoying huh but now I'm you know it's just I've been sitting all day during interviews and then to drive all the way over here from hot beverly hills where we were just sitting in one

place or standing one place yeah and red carpets now are a nightmare because uh i mean now that i'm you know lose my balance yeah but otherwise i fine. Have you been talking mostly about this new movie, Freaks, or have they been talking about Once Upon a Time? Well, today was Freaks, so I couldn't weasel anything in, you know. Yeah, well, Freaks, I watched Freaks. I watched it. And my co-star in Freaks is Emile Hirsch.

Yeah, you guys acted the shit out of that thing. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. You're both in Once Upon a Time in America, too. I knew. Did you know Jay at all, Sebring? No, it's a little before my time. Had you, like, that's what I wanted to ask you.

How old are you? 55? Exactly. Really? Yeah, exactly 55. You knew Jay? Oh, yeah. Did you know all those cats up there?

I know. Bernie Sapphire was my best friend for a long time. Which one's he? Bernie Sapphire? Yeah. Oh, he wasn time. Which one's he? Bernie Sapphire? Yeah. Oh, he wasn't in that. Yeah. The Manson thing. He still cuts hair.

Yeah. Oh, the hair cutter. He and Vidal Sassoon were the two big guys at the time. And then Jay was big until 69. Yeah. And he was gone. And then John Peters kind of came in and took over with two or three other guys, Gene Chico. Uh-huh.

And it was like an old group. They're not there anymore. No, no. I mean, it's that whole way of hairdressing. Yeah. Because that was as much for guys as it was for girls. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was a big thing.

There were these high-style salons, and they were led by a guy, and that guy usually ended up making a brand of shampoo, right? Or Paul Mitchell. Yeah, Paul Mitchell. Sebring had a brand. But when I watch that movie, because I'm sort of nostalgic, but did you saw it? You saw the film, obviously, Once Upon a Time in America,

or in Hollywood. I mean, is that the Hollywood you remember to some degree? Well, that was... It's a smaller town, right? Oddly enough, what Leo goes through in the movie, I went through way before I ever starred in movies. I was panicked that it was passing me by uh in the late 60s and that was right then because everybody was emerging yeah warren was already a movie star or notes was a movie star or hamilton was a movie star and we were a little we were younger than tab hunter and then so we

were the kind of the next generation yeah and everybody was making it but Jack and me and Harry Dean. Yeah. And then Jack also wrote. Yeah. So he directed a movie that he wrote and then he worked for Roger Corman all the time. And Harry Dean sang because he came to Hollywood with the American Boys Chorus. Right. So he was like kind of a good singer. Yeah, he sang all he came to Hollywood with the American Boys Chorus. Right. So he was like kind of a good singer.

Yeah, he sang all the way to the end. I mean, if you remember in Cool Hand Luke, he sings that song in the back of the truck to the other. And so that was nice. The hardest thing now is the guys that didn't make it to 80. Yeah. You know, I mean, Jack's here, I'm here. Jack doesn't want to work anymore. And I don't know,

his whole theory is, you know, unless it's better than something I've done, why? You know? No, but I see his point of view.

Of course. You know? He's done it all. What does he need to show up to help somebody out for? He doesn't, I don't think he misses it. Yeah.

The one thing he would like to do is direct. Uh-huh. And nobody ever offers him anything direct. Oh, he directed me in a movie, and I won the National Film Credit for it. Yeah. What was he like as a director back then?

He was good. Oh, yeah? Yeah, he was fabulous. Because he was, he had, we did it just as Five Easy Peas was open. And we did it in the summer of 71. Well, not the summer. We went up to Oregon to shoot it at Mack Court.

And we started shooting the day after Oregon just broke UCLA's 87 game running street that Saturday night so it was crazy there and Eugene yeah so uh they were just everybody was everywhere and yes uh because I was a runner Steve Prefontaine was there then he was a great runner yeah but he's only a freshman in college then right he's gone to Marshfield High School which is a couple I don't know 20 miles away toward the ocean. But he's already a star? Well, he broke the four-minute mile in high school. Oh, wow, yeah.

Hello. Yeah. I don't keep up with running as much as I should. No, no, but I mean, that was a big deal. Yeah, yeah, didn't live long. For a 17-year-old kid to do it. Yeah, didn't live long enough to, just tragic. But Hollywood was, yeah, it was very, you know, we were lucky in a way.

First of all, my generation when we came. Yeah. When'd you come? I came in 58 to Broadway. Yeah.

In early 59, Mr. Kazan put me under contract. He had five of us. Yeah. He had Rip Torn, Pat Hingle, Bruce Dern, Geraldine Page, and Lee Remick.

Uh-huh. And Lee was immediately a star. Yeah. Because Kazan went to Arkansas to make A Face in the Crowd, the movie A Face in the Crowd. Sure. Andy Griffith. And he used the Pine Bluff marching band. Yeah. And she was the head majorette, Lee.

And he picked her out of that, put her in that movie, and that was the head majorette lee and he picked her out of that put her in that movie and that was her debut yeah a year later she was in that movie that uh the old judge was in judge welch uh the anatomy of a murder uh-huh and she was introduced yeah with ben gazzara right yeah other people and uh so she was a star and the rest of us uh you know uh pat heng she was a star, and the rest of us, you know, Pat Hingle was just a fabulous actor. Well, he's a great character actor. He was around forever. He was in everything. He did.

My uncle wrote a play, and I had no, my uncle never had anything to do with me and Gadget getting together. But my uncle is Archibald McLeish. Oh, yeah. And he wrote a play called JB.B. Yeah. And Gadget directed it. Yeah. And it starred Pat Hingle and Tyne Daly's dad, James Daly. Yeah. And I was still in college.

Yeah. And 56 was my second year at Penn. I went to Penn. Yeah. And I was a phenom in high school. What, as an actor? No, I never acted until after I quit running. And the fall of...

The Olympics in 56 were in October, November, because they were in Australia. Right. And that's their summer. Yeah. So I came back very disillusioned. I quit college. And I didn't know what to do,

but I started going to a lot of movies. And I started to say, Jesus, I'd like to learn to be able to do that. How do they do that? Yeah. So I found a little dramatic school in Philadelphia, and my teacher was an actor studio member, but had moved back to Philadelphia

because he wasn't getting work as an actor. Like the original actor studio? Yeah. So he took me to New York to audition for the actor studio. And there were three things you had to do. You had to go to New York. You had to try and work for Mr. Kazan

and try and become a member of the actor studio. Those were the three things you did. When we finally got out here, we were lucky because we still got to work with the legends. Right. So wait, Kazan came out of the group theater, the people's, what was it called before the studio? The group theater. Yeah, yeah, New York. And then it became, the group became the actor's studio.

Right. So, okay, so when you went to New York, did you audition for Stroudsburg or who was there? No, no, I went to New York from Philadelphia. Yeah. We went right to the Actor's Studio. Yep. And we auditioned. My teacher played the part of me.

We did Waiting for Godot. Uh-huh. Which is just dialogue back and forth. Sure, sure, yeah, yeah. And so it was perfect because I never really knew how to act, so I had no bad habits. Yeah. So the night I went,

because Gordon was a member, was a finals night. Oh, right, yeah. So both Gadget and Lee and Cheryl Crawford, who were the three people that ran the studio. Gadget. Kazan. Yeah.

Ilya Kazan. Yeah, sure. And Lee Strasberg. Yeah. And Cheryl Crawford. Yeah, sure. And Lee Strasberg. Yeah. And Cheryl Crawford. Right. Who had founded with Bobby Lewis the group theater. Right.

And now she was an old, she was the first woman I ever saw wore business suits. So, and Kazan's wife, Molly, was quite a bright, young, vassal lady who had not crossed the street physically, but mentally she was totally across the street. And so she was a big person in that kind of movement, but she was also arts and crafts. Sure. One of her best friends was De Niro's dad. Oh, yeah. Who was a well-known painter in the village.

Yeah. And so... So you made it right to the final audition. Yeah. And they were all there. So I went in, and I just did an audition that night. And Mr. Strasberg said, Thank you, Mr. Dern.

And Gadge said to me, as I walked back with my friend Gordon Phillips, he said, I want you in my office Monday morning at 10 o'clock, okay? Yeah. You'll find my office. Yeah. And I said, okay. Didn't know what he was talking about. Yeah. So when I went outside, I was the last audition tonight.

Lee Strasberg came out and he said, you're in the actor's studio. You know that. I said, how do I know? He said, we haven't seen work like yours. We'd like to kind of make you our Frankenstein. Well, that's exciting. So I said, really? Well, what am I going to do?

He said, we want you to work as often as you can here. And if you have to erase names because everybody wants to work you only do two scenes a week tuesday and two other scenes friday right and that's for 45 people yeah so everybody wants to work because that's what you're there for sure it's not a place to learn how to act yeah it's a play it's a hospital to work on what you don't do well that's really the whole premise of the actor studio and i'm in there and i mean there's eli wallach and there's yeah so and i have a maryland story too right out of that but anyway she was there yeah well she studied privately with lee right and paula strasburg lee's wife, and Susan's mother, was her confidante and went with her on

all her locations. She was like her acting coach. In those days, a lot of people had one. Bonnie Clift had one named Mira Ristova, who was from the Moscow Art Theater. And he got into trouble with Mr. Hitchcock about her, but that's another story. So anyway, I said, okay, I went to Gadget's office and he said, let me tell you what's going on with you, okay? You don't have any bad habits because you've never acted. Yeah. So we want to start you a different way than we've started anybody else. than we've started anybody else.

Because you have the same instincts that, and I didn't realize at first who he was talking about, that Monty, Marlon, and Jimmy had. Oh, wow. Monty Cliff, Marlon Brown, and Jimmy. So I said, well, I know who Jimmy Dean is, and I know who all of them are, but I'm not a movie buff. I just started going to movies last year, or three years ago, to really know who the movie people were.

I said, well, what is it? He said, you're not into acting. You're just into being. So here's what we'd like you to do. The first year you're here with us, we want you to only work on scenes where you have no dialogue yeah or you just learn to react and behave you did that for a year so you don't have the obligation yeah of dialogue so you'll learn your instrument we'll train your instrument

and and also i want to put you under contract. So I worked for him. Well, the first play that I did was called Shadow of a Gunman. And it was a Sean O'Casey play about the IRA, early revolution, 1917. And it was on Broadway. And it was the first time the actor's studio had ever done a play on Broadway. The group theater did, but never big time, big Broadway theater with big producers. Sure, group theater did a lot of that stuff. Joel Shanker was our producer, and he was the head of U.S. Steel, so he's the back

and everything. So there was a guy who directed it named Jack Garfine. He had done a little play off-Broadway called End as a Man. Uh-huh. They moved it to Broadway. Yeah. And within three months after being on Broadway, all seven guys became major movie stars out of that play.

The Guidos, Tony Franciosa, Michael Gazzo. Yeah. Ben Gazzara. Yeah Newman, George Pappard, and a guy named Arthur Storch, who was kind of a comedian, and a guy named Jeffrey Horn, who was Canadian. Yeah. But he was in that too as a young man, and then they had to take him out of that play because he went,

he's the kid that blew up the bridge in Bridge on the River Kwai. Oh, yeah? So this was John Garfine, the director? Jack Garfine. Jack Garfine. G-A-R-F-E-I-N. Yeah. And so Lee came in after 17 days,

along with Gadge, to see rehearsal. Yeah. We were still sitting at the table. Oh, yeah. Reading. Yeah. And Lee said, Jack, what see rehearsal. Yeah. We were still sitting at the table. Oh, yeah. Reading. Yeah. And Lee said, Jack, what is this? Yeah.

And Jack said, well, we're still working on relationships. He said, Gadge, we open on Broadway in eight days. He said, you're done here. Oh, wow. Right in front of the eight of us. And he said, you guys, meaning us, you go on, have a lunch with me back here, and I'm going to stage this son of a bitch

between one and five, okay? This was Gazan. No, this is Lee. Oh, yeah. And the stars of the play were an actor named Bill Smithers, Gerald O'Loughlin, and Susan Strasberg, who was Lee's daughter. Yeah.

Who had, she was only 18, but for four years she had been the darling of the American theater because she played Anne Frank on Broadway. Yeah. And that made her a star. And she had one summer off from the play and she came to Hollywood and got nominated for an Oscar in her first movie because she's the little tomboy girlfriend in Picnic of William Holden.

Yeah. And Kim Novak was the other star. So how'd the play go ultimately? So anyway, so he puts the play together. We all go home. We all come back the next day, and immediately we just start doing the play. I couldn't give a fuck about relationships.

You don't have a relationship with him after 17 fucking days. And the sad thing for Jack was when we came back from our little lunches wherever we went. And I'm a gambler, so I'm betting sports all the time. So I came back and Jack was outside asking us not to go in. Not to continue on. Because he discovered us and he was, well, he didn't discover Susie, obviously. So we went in and eight days later, the play opened. It was a Sean O'Casey play.

And Mrs. O'Casey had come all the way from Ireland to see it. Yeah. Because it's a great, it's about two poets who live with a young girl, and they think that they are IRA people because they're very left kind of poets, so they want them dead. Yeah. So they just want to catch them at something. Yeah. Well, they have a friend who's on stage who was me who's on stage 52 seconds

and i come on and i'm all nervous and everything and they know i'm kind of an iri guy but i know them because i tried to be a poet and all that shit and uh so i say can i leave my bag here and everything and i'll come back and pick it up tomorrow yeah okay yeah that's fine so i leave and then the next day they pick up the newspaper and they read that uh daniel mcguire i think my name was daniel mcguire is found dead in his loft because he was making explosives yeah and the police knock on the door the minute they're reading that in the dublin newspaper yeah and they knock on the door. The minute they're reading that in the Dublin newspaper. Yeah. And they knock on the door and the bag I left is in the corner.

And they go and they say, whose bag is this? Well, we have a friend and he left his bag filled with bombs. Yeah. And so. Yeah. And even though I'm dead and gone, I'm like a linchpin of the play. and gone i'm like a linchpin of the play and walter kerr um uh there were two reviews the the good one was from uh brooks atkinson that said you know i'm not encouraging you to see this play yeah because it's the best play you'll ever see. It's not. But the work from this company on Broadway is work you've never seen before.

Oh, wow. The actors are so real and so believable. And so I suggest you go see the work itself. Because the actor's studio has finally reared its head, and this is who they are. Oh, wow. And so I was quite excited about that. And that got you out here? I had a long time getting to where I've gotten.

Sure. And I'm not stopping. They say, what are you going to do to retire? Retire? What the fuck am I going to do if I retire? And it's interesting because the first day I went to work for Roger Corman in 1966, Peter found a man, Nancy Sinatra. We were the stars of a movie.

It was called Wild Angels. It was a biker film. Yeah, sure. And Nancy had just sang her song. So that's the song in the movie. These Boots Are Made for Walking. It's a drive-in movie. Yeah.

But so that's what we were doing. Yeah. My camera operator was Francis Coppola. The focus puller was Jonathan Demme. At Corman. The prop, yeah. Yeah. It was Corman directing.

Yeah, yeah. The prop guy was Joe Dante. Right. And so, we all went to the University of Corman. Sure.

And we were there four years because he gave us leads in movies. Yeah. And put our names above the title. Yeah. And gave us parts

that were just written, you know. I interviewed, yeah, I talked to Corman. He's a character, man. Oh, he's terrific. So. You're doing TV too, right? Oh, that's all I did.

You know, I just want, all we want to do is get in movies. Yeah. I'm doing every episodic show. Yeah. Like all the classics. I went to read. Yeah.

Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Yeah. Like all the classics. When I went to read Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, it was way back on Easter Sunday of two years ago. And I went up to his house to read. It was just him and me. And he says, sit out here and read it. And I wrote this thing for you. And you should see it and do it. So I read it. He said said go out in the balcony and

then after about an hour of reading i was he said where are you in the script and i said well i'm at this point oh well come inside a second yeah i go in his living room yeah he puts on his huge movie screen my episode from lancer i did two lancers what was that and that's who leo is playing because the guy he's playing it with is james stacy yeah and james stacy was lancer right and james stacy was a big television star yeah so this is 68 and that's yeah and so what happens is when we did this episode of Lancer. Yeah. And so Quentin's once upon a time variation of it. So Oliphant plays that guy?

Huh? Timothy Oliphant plays the guy who played Lancer? Yeah, plays the Lancer character. Plays Jim Stacy. Yeah. So at the end of his scene, you'll notice that he gets on a motorcycle. Yeah. Oliphant does and drives off the set, off the lot. Yeah.

Well, two weeks after that in real life, Jim got on his motorcycle, drove off the lot, and had an accident, lost his arm and his leg. Huh. He was laying there. He wasn't dead. He was responsive. But, you know, the people got him. He wasn't on. He was responsive. But the people got him, wasn't on the set, he was on the streets.

And they knew who he was and everything and they had to take him emergency and everything. And he said, I need somebody to notify. I mean, he didn't have them cut off there. They cut them off in two hours when they got to the hospital. So somebody had to go out.

And when he had done Lancer, it was a Disney show, they built him a huge elaborate motor home that he could live in out on the Disney Ranch, Golden Oak, because that's where they shot all the exteriors of the episode. So he didn't have to go back and forth the nights they shot out there. And somebody had to go back, knock on the door, because there were no cell phones or anything, and tell his wife what had happened to him.

Well, they had to knock on the door and tell Connie Stevens that her husband had lost his arm and his leg. He was married to Connie Stevens when she was the biggest star in the world. Wow. And it was all about Jim Stacy. So Quentin, in tribute to Jim, puts that in the movie. And Jim's my era. I mean, Jim would have been as big a star as you could be because he was a good looking

kid. Yeah. And there was another kid at the same time named uh oh what the hell is his name uh christopher jones and he had done a series called billy the kid and a movie called wild in the streets yeah which was a corman type movie yeah and then he got a huge part in a movie went and and did it, because that kid, Chris Jones, was the star of Ryan's Daughter for David Lean. Yeah. And never worked a day again and lost his mind. And I don't think he's dead, but his wife was Susan Strasberg.

Oh, my God. Everything's connected. And they have a daughter named my God. Everything's connected. And they have a daughter named Jenny, who's Laura's friend. Well, when you started doing the movies, had you met Hitchcock when he did the TV show? I did meet him once. I did an episode of that thing that he would come on the set every day. What people don't know, it was an hour show. Yeah.

He did every half hour show himself yeah and what pissed uh brian hudden uh uh sydney pollack mark rydell bob butler a lot of these directors under contract at universal then they got pissed off because of hitch because hitch made psycho on the back lot for 590 grand yeah and they said if hitch can do it you can do it right so they were their staff of up-and-coming movie directors right so that's all i got 750 to make a movie yeah you know yeah and uh so that was cheap so they never you know right loved him but so that's when i met hitch and then he put me in marnie, which was 63. Yeah. I remember you from like the, I saw the Cowboys when I was a kid. The day I shot him.

He'd never been shot. John Wayne? Yeah. Never been shot. Never been killed. Right. You know. So they're putting bullet hits on him for that scene.

Yeah. And I went to Mark Rydell and i said look let's do something he doesn't expect yeah he doesn't expect and mark said well what is it i said lay it on me blame it on me yeah and he'll just say to you well i won't go into it but he just you know he'll turn on you but you can tell him no it was me and i'll say let's put a bullet hit in his back yeah so when he walks away from me the first shot is in his back and he did not know it was coming yeah he didn't know they put a bullet hit in his back he went down like a pro the scene went on afterward he got up he said mr ridell yes sir He said, Mr. Rydell. Yes, sir.

Where are you from? Oh, I'm 166th in the Grand Concourse. It's up in the Bronx in New York. How far did you have to walk to see a real cowboy? And he said, well, I usually go down to the Strand Theater, and we saw you on Saturday afternoons. He said, who gave you permission to put the thing in my back? He said, the guy that pulled the trigger. And I said, I did, Duke. And he says, oh, they're going to hate you for this. They're going to hate you so much for

this. And I said, really? Well, in Berkeley, I i'm a fucking hero he put his arm around me he said to the whole 80 people you know where we the scene where we shot him yeah and he said that's why this prick is in my movie because he understands bad guys are funny yeah otherwise we wouldn't be talking about them 150 years later wow Wow. They had senses of humor. Yeah. They were stars in their own right. Sure. And so the lucky thing for us when we came to Hollywood, we still got to work with the legends.

Yeah. You can't be a legend today. I mean, come on. Yeah. There's not a soul that doesn't know what you do after school. Sure. So, I mean, then you didn't know anything. I didn't know Clark Grable rode a motorcycle.

Yeah. I didn't know any of that shit. And so we get legendary awards and stuff, but we're not legends. Well, yeah, you were in that transition period. They were all still around. They were still around and working. I worked with him. I worked with the most enlightening guy we worked with.

We did a wonderful movie you might have seen. It's called That Championship Season. Sure, yeah. It starred Mitchum and me and Jason, I mean, and Martin Sheen, Paul Sorvino, and Stacy Keech. And you guys were the young guys. Yeah. And Mitchum was the old guy. Well, we're the basketball team.

Yeah, yeah. And Mitchum was the coach. Yeah. And it's a true story because that, Scranton Central was a high school. Yeah. And they upset in the state championship. They had 40 Central was a high school. Yeah. And they upset in the state championship. They had 40 boys in the high school. It's just a technical trade school where the hoodlum kids go to learn a trade.

Yeah. Instead of going to jail, they're sent to the trade school. Right. Well, they could play baskets and they'd play them together since they were little hoodlums. Mm-hmm. So they went and they played in the state championship. Yeah. And it was Wilt's senior year at Overbrook,

and he'd never lost a game in high school in four years. And they beat him because they went four-corner stall because the priest, who was their coach, who was Mitchum, he goes up to Paul Sorvino, who was the center, and he said on the tip-off, break Wilt's nose. So he went up, Wilt's nose, he's out of the game. So now we only play five other guys, but they don't have a seven-foot, one-inch guy. Yeah.

And then you could play four corners and stall. That's a true story. So they just stalled all the game, and they won 45 to 44. And what was Mitchum like? He had better stories than we will ever come up with. Oh, yeah. I mean, he had this story about you saw the godfather yeah well that guy Harry Cohn yeah who was John Marley in the movie right is the guy that had the horses right cut off

well that was Harry Cohn right from LA because Sinatra wasn't they didn't want Sinatra and the godfather right I mean now in uh from here to return right and so uh they he went to see him and tried to make him an offer for frank you know that you can't refuse and so they cut his head off and put him in the bed well it's interesting because by that time we're talking early 70s now francis is a star yeah bagdich, who was the second unit cameraman on Wild Angels and The Trip, another Corman movie. He was just the second unit, and he was a critic from Chicago, really, but he wanted to direct. He never directed a movie. And so all those guys were all there at the same time.

Yeah. And we don't know we're getting an education. Right. For that, we got $250 a day for 10 days so you got you know 10 2500 yeah and a box lunch uh no lunch period they just it's like working in in europe you know they walk around with food all day long and a platter so you don't lose the hour every day and uh so that was what uh all that was like so now in my career when kazan put me on the plane to come out to california yeah he said understand something you're gonna get out there and you have a very unique talent now because we've had you for two

years and you're ready to be on the screen you're not a leading man i'm 25 you're not a leading man you're never going to be a leading man so no one's going to know who the hell you are until you're in your 60s i said gadge i'm 25 years old he said you've had a career as a runner you're all over the place and all these magazines and everything i said but i'm not a runner anymore. He said, but you can endure. And this business is about endurance. Yeah. And because you have this quality of interjecting things, Nicholson named them Dernsies,

they're little things. The best one I ever did is in Nebraska. Yeah. And the second best one I do in, did you see Once Upon a Time? Yeah. Okay. In the scene,

and Quentin and I go back a ways. Yeah. So he lets me. You've been in a few of his movies. Three. Yeah. Django, I played a bit. Yeah.

And Hateful Eight, I played the general and then this. And so he said, I go up to him, and Kazan said to me when he put me on the plane, when you get out there, never ever tell a director what you're going to do and take one, ever. Don't go up to him, and Kazan said to me when he put me on the plane, when you get out there, never, ever tell a director what you're going to do and take one, ever.

Don't go up to him and say, I need permission, or I'd like to do this or that. Don't do it. I said, how the hell am I going to get away with that? He said, because the director's got something you'll never have. I said, really, what's that? Take two. So if you don't get it in one you're never going to get it yeah and

don't go up and tell him because i hate it because this didn't come from that yeah so just that was the first one the second thing is he said when you get out there because of your stature you're going to be the fifth cowboy from the right for a decade yeah live with it. Endure it. But make sure you're the most authentically unique fifth cowboy from the right anybody ever saw. Never stop inventing.

When I got permission to start doing it, the first time I did it in a big movie was Nicholson directed a movie called Drive, he said. And I won

the National Film Critics Award for it. And Jack directed it. And nobody ever went and saw it. They took it award for it and jack directed it and nobody ever went and saw it they took it to canon mick jagger's kid cried all the way through it so that's why jack said no one ever gave a shit about it but anyway so uh we were walking down a hall i played a basketball coach and the team is about it's about a small college team going to the final four yeah and we were that small college and we used university of oregon to shoot it all in 71 where they were in the heyday

yeah the day we started shooting was the night after they upset ucla and broke their 87 game winning streak i'm walking down the hall with my assistant coach and two little cheerleaders come whipping down the hall one was c Cindy Williams. Oh, yeah. Who was just a cheerleader. Who was a burning cheerleader, yeah. And the other one was a girlfriend, Mimi Michoud of Jack's, who was a girlfriend for all. And they were the two cheerleaders. Yeah.

And they were just sexist in the movie. And as they went by, I just, my fingers were down here, but I just went. Snapped. Just snapped my fingers twice. He cut the camera and he said, that, boys and girls, is a Dernsey. He's been doing that for a long time. But now he gave it to me and put it in my movie. He does that.

But he doesn't rehearse it and he doesn't do it. He doesn't really know what he's going to do beforehand. He's in the moment. It just happens and he brings it out. And that's with the switch on. So you're getting the real deal. So now we cut to years later. And I go to Alexander Payne and said, you know what?

I don't have a Dernsey in my movie. He knew about it. Because he writes pretty good. You don't need to put Dernseys in, you know. Yeah. And so I come to him and, did you see Nebraska? Mm-hmm. Okay. We go up into my old house after and, did you see Nebraska? Mm-hmm. Okay.

We go up into my old house after the dinner where she tells everyone to go fuck themselves. Yeah. You know, we drive to the old house and we go upstairs and we look into a bedroom and it's my old bedroom. Yeah. And the wife says to Will Forte and Odenkirk, the two brothers that are with me, have sons, and they say, she says, this is Woody's room. And he slept with David.

You were named after him, his little brother. And he slept in the same bed with him for a year and never got the disease. And Will turns to me and says, do you remember that, Dad? And there's no line. It's a cut, and we go into the next bedroom, or my parents' bedroom. And I go to Alexander. I said, OK, you want a Dernsey? I said, yeah.

How long will you need? Three seconds. He said, I know not to ask you. You're famous. You're not going to tell me what it is but uh i said just don't cut the camera for three seconds later than you've been cutting it in the first take we hadn't done a take yet and uh but in the rehearsal you said cut and now we're on right so we go into the room and uh he said stories like it says and he says, do you remember that, Dad? And I said, I was there. And Alexander said, I can't write that. It just happens.

So we get with Quentin on The Hateful Eight. And I throw in a couple of Dernsies, and he just lets them go. And then finally, I put a Dernsie in. And it's where Channing Tatum's about to kill me. He's got the gun on me. Yeah. And then he doesn't do it. He said, good answer, old man, and puts his gun down.

And I told Quentin, give me a second there. He said, Dernsie. I said, yes. And so he says, that's quick thinking, old man, and you're okay. And I said, thank you, because he's saving my life. Yeah. And, well, I won't say the names,

but two of the combatants with me raised their hands and said, why does he get to say stuff that's not in the script? Yeah. He says, you don't do that. He says, we could do that. No, you can't. I've had E-20 and five movies. You can't do that.

You don't do that. It's not that you can't, but you don't. You know? Yeah. He says, well, why is that? He said, Alexander Payne will tell you the same thing. No one can write the shit that comes out of his mouth. You can't write that because it's on the moment in the moment.

Yeah. What was the one in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood? What? The one in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. Let me ask you something. It looked like you and Brad Pitt were about to laugh. Huh? Like there was a moment there Hollywood. Let me ask you something. It looked like you and Brad Pitt were about to laugh. Huh? Like there was a moment there.

Well, he was. Yeah. Because he'd seen the scene, you know. I mean, we'd been working on a scene. He was laughing all the time. He didn't expect it. He didn't know what to expect. Yeah.

But he knew that, you know, he was excited to work with me. And because of whatever it is he thought that I brought. And so what it was is uh he finally wakes me up and i come to him and he's shaking me i said oh i don't know who are you i don't know who the fuck you are and then he gets kind of independent and everything and a little shaky he says well george i want to so forth and so on and uh i grab him yeah and i say who are you yeah and uh he was stunned at that we had to cut there because he said he just asked me a question that's in the script but he asked it in such a way he said that's what he does and quinn goes duh you know and so that's why he's here so forth and so on so then i i do that and he says uh

uh he says well george i'm just you know cliff booth and so forth and so on and then he starts explaining i said i don't know who you are and i grab his lapel and i said but you did something really nice today. And it touched me. You came to see me. That was not in there. Yeah. Well, it took me 45 years to know that that would be okay. Because you don't do that. But I've never once had a director say to me,

and not use the take. Yeah. Because that's what it is. And it's movie after movie after movie. And in Freaks, there's a ton of them with the little girl selling her ice cream and all that stuff. My career changed with Nebraska.

Yeah. Because at 79 years old, Alexander wrote a script for me at 75. Yeah. Took us 10 years to get it made. Yeah. Because no one wanted to make it in black and white, and no one really wanted to make it with me. And so he couldn't get it made.

So he went and he made about Schmidt. Yeah. With Jack and, you know, Kathy Bass and all. And then he came back. He couldn't make it again no one wanted to make it because the package was black and white with me yeah and so they didn't want to make it so he went and made the Descendants yeah no he went and made Sideways oh that's a good movie and then same thing again another three years and he went and made the Descendants yeah and then he

came back and he said Paramount's gonna give me enough money to make the movie in black and white with you. Okay? But they took $15 million out of our budget. So I said, well, can't you make a movie for $10 million? And he said, of course I can. And it's in black and white. And that was the first time after people having seen me for 45 years yeah 50 years yeah almost yeah no 50 I've done 62 so 55 years yeah see me have a story

about me yeah I had it in silent running I had it in a few other movies but I never had a movie that was like this. And I took that movie for one reason, and this is why I'm an actor and why I always keep acting until I'm trying to get to three digits. So that means I've got 17 years. But I like to do stuff that people haven't had a chance to do because I don't do movies about guys my age.

Even if they're small roles, I don't care. If there had a chance to do because they don't do movies about guys my age right you know even if they're small roles i don't care if there's a chance to be real and be kind of a linchpin in a movie i'll do it well george spawns kind of linchpin because from the time brad gets out of his car on that ranch yeah the movie changes yes it does once they start following him to west to come up to see me then you wonder what it is that's going on. And so that was the one Dernsey. And the other Dernsey is, he says, well, you know, you sure it's okay with this squeaky, the red-haired girl and everything?

I'd already told him I'm fucking blind. How do I know what color her hair is? So he says, I said, hey said hey bud squeaky loves me and then i kind of dropped back in my bed and i said so suck on that oh goodness i love that you know because that's the whole thing and that's a dernsey but it's it's not that he couldn't write that he just didn't write it but that's. But that makes the character. Sure, but those moments, you live for those things, right? Well, that's why you keep on doing it.

Yeah. Because you want to find things that are unique. Yeah. Unique approaches. And that comes from 20 years of never having more than seven lines in a movie, period. You know? I mean, Jack and I, I was never billed on the screen. I wasn't even billed on the screen of Wild River, my first movie, which was for Mr. Kazan.

Yeah. Starred Montgomery, Cliff, Lee Remick, and Jovan Fleet. Yeah. And it was about the TVA, a lady who wouldn't move off her island when they flooded the Chickamauga Dam. Yeah, right, right. She wouldn't move because her family had been there 200 years. And that's what that movie is. And he didn't get any credit.

No, he didn't. He forgot. oh i just forgot and uh coming home was a big one oh yeah well that was uh 17 years later yeah no i've had uh the movies that i'm proudest of yeah i'm proudest of a movie called smile yeah because it's a wonderful teenage beauty pageant movie. It's about the teenage Miss America. I mean, junior Miss pageant. And Barbara Felden is my co-star. Yeah. Car 99. Yeah.

You know, huh? Yeah, yeah. Get smart, too. And then I love Coming Home. Oh, yeah. Now, I thought the Gatsby we did was a good version of Gatsby. With Redford

Redford Mia me and Sam Waterston we were the four people and I love Walter Hill so I like The Driver because it's a good movie and Ryan is very good in it and everybody

no one has a name he's the driver, I'm the detective, she's the player, he's, you know, so forth and so on. That's Walter Hill. And people say,

well, you know, but what's he really done? He never does anything that's funnier. And I said, cut off. What are you talking about? Shut the fuck up.

Yeah. He directed 48 Hours. Was that funny? Yeah. Wonderful guy. What about They Shoot Horses? Very, very good. I mean, it's another one. off yeah he directed 48 hours was that funny yeah wonderful what about uh uh they shoot horses very very good i mean it's another one uh that i was in early pollock he's great his second movie yeah and uh i had done his no it was his third movie his second movie i've been to was called

castle keep yeah starred burt lancaster and listen to this cast, Patrick O'Neill, Michael Conrad, Peter Falk, Tony Bill, Bruce Dern, Scott Wilson, James Patterson, Jean-Pierre Armand, and Marty Baum produced it for Seven Arts. But Gig Young won the Oscar for it. Yeah. Oh yeah, it's a great part. Oh yeah, he was one of the. But Pollock was a good actor too, I thought. Yeah, well he was good great part. Oh, yeah. He was one of the yowza, yowza, yowza. But Pollock was a good actor, too, I thought.

Yeah, well, he was good in Tootsie. Yeah. Well, it's great that you're still working. Anyway, you've been wonderful. I mean, the homework you've done and your face, your enthusiasm, I mean, you just draw shit out of me. You know? So I appreciate it. Well, thanks for talking.

I feel like we could do a whole. I wrote a book 11 years ago. It's all in there. It's called Things I've Said But Probably Shouldn't Have. Well, thanks for talking. I feel like we could do a lot. I wrote a book 11 years ago. It's all in there. It's called Things I've Said But Probably Shouldn't Have. Well, yeah. And John Wiley and Sons published the book. Well, whatever we didn't cover, I'll just read aloud at the beginning. Well, read it, because what is good is I didn't change a name.

Yeah. Every name is the same. Well, you're great, and I've always been a big fan, and now I understand you a little better. Well, I'll tell you a little anecdote I like. My daughter, Laura. I talked to her. And her mother, Diane Ladd,

the only family in the history of this business to all have stars on Hollywood Boulevard. Other families, but never mother, father, child. And there's eight Oscar nominations there. And Diane and Laura both nominated Best Actress, Best Support Actress

from the same movie. I saw that movie. It's called Rambling Rose. Yeah, beautiful. And then again in Wild at Heart, but Diane got nominated, Laura didn't. But Rambling Rose was great. You know, then again in Wild at Heart, but Diane got nominated. Laura didn't. Yeah. But Rambling Rose was great.

You know, Duvall and Diane. Oh, yeah, it's great. It's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I'm very proud of Laura. She's done good. Diane, you know, she still has a career and she still works a lot and everything. But I enjoy when somebody, the only other guy who's done as almost as good homework as you not quite as good

is michael debar yeah because he has a show similar to this oh does he what she does in england drive time uh-huh so you're on the phone and the people are driving to work sure and you're at eight o'clock at night and they're on the way to work and he's very good too and when he first interviewed i didn't have a clue who he was. Yeah. And I didn't realize he was big stuff. Yeah. I mean, he replaced Sting in The Police. And then went on and had a big career of his own.

And his wife wrote the book, I Am With The Band. Yeah. Pamela DeBar. Pamela DeBar, you must have known her in the 70s. Oh, yeah. Well, I didn't know her much. Yeah. But she was big stuff. Sure. And so was he. She just just emailed me i think she wants to talk she's around oh she'd love to talk she's wonderful of the people you want to talk to she is one because uh she's been

there yeah she knows where all the bodies are buried she's no but and she's a good name and bright oh yeah very very i met her at uh I think I met her at the Zappa house briefly oh and how cool was he yeah I didn't know him but I knew Moon he was he was cool

yeah three times in my life I had a lunch once a year once in one year then it was three years for the next one

then the next year it was so on four years we had three lunches five years we had three lunches he's bob fossy me and george carlin oh yeah how about that yeah he was sharp huh george carlin he got it yeah and zappa got it yeah and fossy got it sure you know you still talk to jack uh occasionally yeah i mean he calls me you know a couple times a year and says you want to go to

the basket and everything and i said uh i don't know can i go in the limo yeah darns or get on over here come on go down and see i i'm sure i'll get a call this year because he wants to see the two guys together you know see how they perform but i love him he is uh he did something for me it's the last thing i'll tell you we did a movie it's a very good one i'm proud of too i forgot called the king of marvin garden oh yeah yeah and that's one that's a raffleson movie yeah and how's he doing bob you talked to him uh he's he's an aspen he's he's okay okay but he's uh it's tough yeah but he's a great interview, but I don't know now. Yeah, I hear you.

But he's such a good guy and such a good director. Yeah. And Marvin Garden's a good movie. In the movie, there's a scene where we crown, I live with two women, Ellen Burstyn and this girl, Julianne Robinson, and Jack is my brother. I have him come visit me in Atlantic City to start a dream about gambling.

This is before gambling was there. The last shot of the movie is the wrecking ball hitting the Tremor Hotel. For real. Because that was our last day of work there. The day they brought it in. And so Jack sings the Miss America song. Here she is.

And we give her the little crown, and I'm out driving this little golf cart that we're going to drive into the place and out of. The whole place is empty. Seats 28,000 people. They used to play indoor football there. C.W. Post used to play home games there. And so in Atlantic City.

So we're, he's finished. She's got the Miss America crown. I pull a cart up, the golf cart, and Jack climbs in next to me and I'm driving. He's next to me and Julianne gets in the back seat and Ellen Burstyn's running because the car's going maybe two miles an hour. Yeah. And she grabs the seat, gets on, and falls off. Jack, I stopped the car immediately. He put his hand on my arm, and he said, Are you all right? Friend for the rest of my life. I mean, he knew that what I was going through

was just as important as what she was going through yeah but I was the perpetrator so to speak right and that made me forever indebted to him I mean I just he's a class act also he's as good a partner as I've ever had in movies I've had some good partners oddly enough Robert Shaw was a pretty good partner and he's Robert's great. Robert Shaw was the captain in Jaws. Great actor, yeah. And this was in Black Sunday where I had to blow up the Super Bowl. I had to kill John Wayne, and two years later, I blew up the Super Bowl.

I mean, get away from that in a career. Thanks, man. Thank you, and thank you for having me. You bet. Appreciate it. Wild, right? That was wild. Fucking Bruce Dern, man.

Bruce fucking Dern. Loved it. Loved that talk. Glad we made it up the stairs. Didn't know if I was going to get him down. The movie he's in right now, aside from Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, is Freaks, which opens in theaters this Friday. I'm going to play my Stratocaster straight in to the Dirty Old Man amp, 58, 57, 58, Fender Deluxe through a classic Crybaby Wawa pedal pedal that's all that's happening here okaymeme

me me me me me mememe me me

me me boomer lives