WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1056 - Byron Allen

Episode Date: September 23, 2019

How did Byron Allen go from teenage stand-up to highly successful media mogul and entrepreneur? Byron thinks it has everything to do with growing up in Detroit, watching his dad working at Ford and internalizing that factory worker mentality. Of course, his mom was a big help too, working as a tour guide at NBC Studios so young Byron could watch and learn from Johnny Carson, Redd Foxx, Richard Pryor and many others. Byron tells Marc how he found The Comedy Store, how he put in the hard work to get his own show on television, and how he came to own a media empire that includes The Weather Channel. This episode is sponsored by South Park and Crank Yankers on Comedy Central, the Hella Mega Tour, and BetterHelp. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck, Knicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. Welcome to it. How's it going?

I'm on the road. Where am I reporting from? I'm about three stories up in a hotel in Minneapolis, Minnesota. It's the day before you're listening to this. And I'm about to do my last show of this little four-city run that I've been on. It's been pretty great. It's been pretty little four city run that I've been on. It's been pretty great. It's been pretty great.

Can't, can't say I've been eating well, but you know, I'm not going to fester about that. Uh, you know, life is short. Why not make it shorter? Byron Allen is on the show today. Yes. That Byron Allen. And it's, it's a deeper and more interesting than you would, uh, I don't even'm not even gonna make any assumptions that you made any assumptions but byron allen is on the show today and it's a good talk so that said let me get this out of the way a little bit of business i added some dates

in los angeles i'll be uh at the dynasty typewriter which is a small room working out the show again and again. Don't look if you're in L.A. and you know, you've seen me a few times. Save it up. All right. Maybe maybe you'll sit one out because I'm going to need you at the special taping. I believe I'll be taping the special in Los Angeles probably in October or November, probably November. I'll let you know. It's a little we're not sure yet. We're, we're, we're deciding on spaces. All right. But it is not going to be in Boston. I don't mean to disappoint you. If you thought you were going to be part of the special taping in Boston, but we couldn't manage to do something we wanted to do with a camera.

They would, they wouldn't let us remove the walls of the entire structure so we could have easier movement. That's no one's fault. It wasn't about walls, but it's not going to be taping there. We'll be taping in Los Angeles, but I will be a Dynasty typewriter October 5th and 6th. And also I'm heading to Philadelphia the 10th, Washington, D.C. the 11th, and Boston the 12th. That's October, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. Then Nashville, Atlanta, and San Francisco, October 18th, 19th, and 12th. That's October, Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. Then Nashville, Atlanta, and San

Francisco, October 18, 19, and 26th. Go to wtfpod.com slash tour and come out and see me. It's very exciting. I've got a very exciting big closer that I think even the comic book nerds would enjoy. We got some new swag, some new stuff, some new merch. There's a new WTF hoodie. There's a new Aaron Draplin keychain with the Draplin logo for my face and the colors. There's a stainless steel coffee mug, and there's more merch coming. You can go to podswag.com slash WTF or go to WTF pod dot com and click on merch and get that shit going. So an update on monkey.

I don't think I gave you one. The doctor got back to me. The vet got back to me. A monkey does not have diabetes. He does not have kidney disease. He has hyperthyroid and we've got pills going for it. My buddy Frank, who's watching the house, has started giving monkey the pills for the hyperthyroid and we've got pills going for it my buddy frank who's watching the house has started giving monkey the pills for the hyperthyroid hopefully you know we can push it

back but it is good that it's not diabetes or kidney disease and that he's eating and still seems lively this is a 16 year old motherfucker this cat and uh i'm not going to say he's tough but you know he's lean and he's full of energy and he's lively so that's the cat update buster's fine lafond is fine that being said i've been on sort of a little bit of a whirlwind tour here went to toronto rosebud baker opened for me she was great she was doing the festival up there. This is for JFL 42. And there was, you know, I had mild panic. I always have mild panic because I'm not an arena act. I'm not gunning to be an arena act. But that was a 3,000-seater, and I was nervous about it.

But we ended up pulling in about 2,200 at least, and it was a great crowd. I love Canada. I don't know how many times i got to say that i guess until they run me out of the u.s oh really i have to go to canada darn i just i'm relaxed up there and the show was great all the shows have been good and then the following day i went from canada down to chicago sold out the vic that's been sold out a while i didn't want to add an extra show because i'm a dick like that. It's so nice to have a big, beautiful, full show.

I probably could have, next time, Chicago. I'll do it next time. But thanks for coming out to the Vic. That's a great venue, great show. Jonah Ray opened for me there. Then we flew to Detroit. And I was nervous about Detroit just because of Detroit. I've only heard things that made me worry about Detroit and it's bouncing back. It seems it's a little trippy to be there. This,

the venue there was this, it's, it's the Masonic temple, but I think it's the biggest Masonic temple in the world or the country, or it used to be. And there are these huge venues within it. There's a, the theater I did, which which seats about 1800 and then there's another larger masonic theater within it that seats a few thousand and these were i think built for masonic rituals i mean these were rooms filled with men for for probably you know a century just doing their weird stuff their weird fraternal order cult-like brotherhood rituals and i'm not going to say ghosts but i don't know how many times you've really taken in a ritual space they do have some power on their own and the masonic power given that i was prone to conspiracy

thinking back in the day when i had not quite come out of the tunnel of a cocaine psychosis i was pretty sure the masons were involved in the big picture there's a lot of evidence a lot of sketches a lot of uh speculation retroactive speculation easy to connect the dots when they're all behind you isn't it yeah but uh that was before I realized that it all ends up with the Jews being the puppet masters. And I, I gotta, gotta tell you, that's not true. Uh, and I'm pretty fucking sure about it, but nonetheless, to be in these, uh, in this ritual space, uh, churches, synagogues, if you go to Italy and you go into any of those old cathedrals in the middle of nowhere in Italy that were put up by the ruling power of the Catholic Church. And you walk into those places.

It's no wonder every peasant, every person, anybody who walked in with their dirty shoes looking for an answer was just crushed by and in awe of the beauty and spectacle of the place man and all ritual spaces have a certain vibe to it granted usually there's some sort of altar or podium or pulpit but the masonic ritual space the lights are a little weird it's a little deco a little gothic a little fucked up it was heavy man there's a darkness to it i'm not saying it's a creepy darkness but it's a legit darkness and i was pretty frank about it there was moments there where you know i thought i i'd done some riff when i was up on stage about dying on stage and if i happened to kick it on the masonic temple stage in detroit It would probably be full circle for the ritual that we don't know about, which is the dying of the Jew on the altar. So it would have been closure for some Masonic cycle

that I was making up. Pretty funny riff. Glad it didn't happen. So Detroit was a trip. Had a coney dog. Not necessary, but I did it. Jonah and I i before the show in chicago plowed through uh lou malnati's uh deep dish as i do in chicago so it's not great but i i will share this with you i am uh one month off the fucking nicotine one month and it's it's okay got a little bit of a sore throat right now i don't know what's going on. Yeah, I'm getting old. I don't know. It's weird when you start to look at yourself. You know when someone's president for two terms

and God forbid, let's not let that happen. I didn't mean to say that at this particular time in history, but you know when a president that's all of a sudden looks like an old man and you don't know when it happens, looks like it almost happens overnight. I think it might have happened to me like last week. I don't know what night it was, but I woke up and my face was old. It's it, my beard's a little grayer and I'm starting to see myself maybe because of the lack of nicotine. I'm starting to see myself clearly. Uh, maybe it's, it's harder

for me to be my endorphins to be all jacked and for me to have some sort of nicotine-tinted glasses to where I'm not quite fully aware of who I am in my life and in my world and in the time arc of my being. But I can see it clearly. It's not bad. I'm not complaining but i think i i turned a corner and i'm gonna be i'm gonna be 56 in exactly um four days i can't fucking believe that it's so fucking weird you guys i'm gonna be 56 i'm not even freaking out about it i'm not complaining about it but i don't feel any different and my mother always says that and i don't know i never and you know but it's true she's like i i can't say how old she is but she she always says how she doesn't feel any different i don't feel that much different either but

i can look at the vessel the vessel is getting worn the vessel is wearing down all right so look i what have i been doing i've been re-watching Breaking Bad, and it's fucking great. I don't know if you've seen it. It's a television show. But back when I watched it, I waited every week. You wait week to week, and it was exciting to do that, and I still think that's really the best way to enjoy television because there's suspense involved, and you get excited for the week,

and it gives you something to do at the same time every week you know this is not you know it was a community thing you didn't have to see the rest of the community but you were pretty sure that everybody was kind of watching and that still happens in some ways it seems but it's great to watch them one after the other just to burn through them what a satisfying fucking amazing show that's all i gotta say uh about that i'm watching breaking bad again it's not a plug it's not anything it just and i'm it's it's i'm saturated in it i'm soaking in breaking bad and it's weird when you watch four episodes of breaking bad and then you pull out into the real world you got some pretty skeevy fucking goggles on man so byron allen many of you may know byron allen from uh way back from real people was i think the first big show he was on byron allen real people but before that

he was a comic and before that he was a sort of a child prodigy comic in a way which i didn't know i'd seen a picture recently that someone had sent me of byron allen he must have been 15 or 16 years old sitting with i think david letterman and jimmy walker at the comedy store so i'm like what the fuck this this story runs deep i should get into that hear that out and uh and then i heard like you know he's got a billion dollars and he you know he owns the weather channel i'm like this is getting a little crazy all i know is that Byron Allen was one of those dudes who late at night, you'd be flipping through TV channels and you'd be like, Byron Allen's still on TV? What, does Byron Allen have a show still?

What is this show? And then he's got Comics Unleashed, which I think has been running forever, that I did years ago, where he famously would set you up for jokes just by going, I hear you have a bit about podcasting. I hear you do a podcast. Just the most direct throwing to bits.

It was almost funny in the wrong way. But that's on TV, and occasionally I get checks for a dollar or a nickel from doing Comics Unleashed. But it just became this thing where, and then Jasonason zinneman from the new york times is like what is byron allen's story so i'm like you know what let's find out let's talk to byron allen and i did that i am now going to share that conversation with you so in addition to all of the tv projects this company has launched uh the local now app which

is a mobile app and a streaming network for lifestyle news weather traffic and entertainment uh he's launched that too this guy's into a lot of stuff and uh but the comedy history was kind of was kind of interesting to me because as you know if you listen to this show we do we do we are running sort of a a comedy history of that's mostly focused on the comedy store in that place a history of the comedy store i'm going to talk to some other old timers too from there because there's still a few i got to get argus hamilton is coming as a deep tease uh yeah argus hamilton i've scheduled a conversation with argus who did not want to do the show he did not want to do the show,

did not want to do a long-form interview until Mitzi Shore passed. Now she's gone. I don't think it means that he's going to talk dirt, but just out of respect, I guess. So Argus is coming, but right now I got Byron. This is me talking to Byron out. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No.

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T's and C's apply. Byron Allen sitting right in front of me. Unbelievable. All right. I'm pretty excited about it. You know, because you've come up in conversation. I've interviewed a lot of your old friends, probably. Maybe they're friends.

People mention you. I've had Binder on. I've had Jimmy on. Jimmy Walker on. I've had Letterman on. I've had Dreesen on. I have this weird bit of a... Wow. Wow.

Mitzi Shore's driver's license. Yeah, what is that? Does of... Wow. Wow. Mitzi Shore's driver's license. Yeah, what is that? Does it... Wow. You're going to keep... You have to frame this. Why is it just sitting on your desk like it's nothing? Because I have...

This woman changed my life. Right? Oh, yeah. Isn't that wild to hold that? Because I was a doorman at the store in the late 80s. So I sort of have... I don't have the same relationship with her or the idea of her that you do, but still, she weighs pretty large in your head, right?

Absolutely. I mean, I showed that to Letterman. He was like, oh my God, a crime's been committed. I found that on the floor at the comedy store when we were in her office. Mike Binder's doing a documentary on the store. Right, yeah. Yeah, did he talk to you?

Yeah, yeah. Oh, he did? He did. We did a great interview together. We had a lot of fun. But that's family. You had all of my family on. Kind of, right?

Oh, my God. Are you kidding me? These are people I've known for 44 years. But where did you come from? I mean, how did you show up in L.A.? I mean, because I know that you landed at the store, but where did it start? Detroit, Michigan. I was born in Detroit. I'm going there next week are you yeah great town yeah phenomenal town have you been there lately it's been a while but I but it's an amazing town when I was born there I was born there April 22nd 1961 a great day for me yeah Henry Ford Hospital yeah

and uh it was you And it was magical. Do you remember it? Oh, are you kidding me? We made cars for the world and music for the world. You did personally? Yes. I personally, when I was a baby, I was a baby and I went straight to the Ford factory. I was born in Henry Ford Hospital.

I said, I don't need this hospital. I'm going right to the factory. I'm going to go work with my dad who worked there for, my dad worked at Ford Motor Company for over 30 years. He did? Oh, yeah. And my grandfather worked at Great Lakes Steel for over 30 years. These guys, I couldn't wait to go to work with them. They never called in a day sick.

Really? Never. So your old man was a lifer at Ford? All of it. In my whole neighborhood, yes. My dad, my grandfather. I couldn't wait to put a uniform on and go to one of the factories with my father and my grandfather and make cars. And then after they made cars. I'm sorry that didn't work out for you, Byron, because it's been a rough go for you.

It was one of those things like, and I used to watch my dad leave and I go, I can't wait to go with you. And we're going to have our nice little brown paper bag lunch. And I'm going to go there. And it was definitely one of my very first dreams. And when they came home, you know, they would make cars in the driveway. Really? Oh, you mean, so that would be the hobby as well? Oh, they would build cars.

I mean, they would start with a screw. Right. And a little bolt. And then just build. And next thing you know, like eight months later, there's a car in the driveway you know they just make it from scrap and they're doing hot rods and shit oh they're doing everything and uh but you're a kid you were so young i was a kid i was a kid i mean those are some of my fondest memories you know detroit michigan in the 60s you got brothers and sisters i have a half brother who's phenomenal

he's a really good person he's a pilot and i would sit on the porch yeah in detroit right and listen to the radio with my grandfather and we'll listen to the tigers play and i didn't even know you could go to a baseball game right i just saw oh my came out of the radio it just came out of the radio yeah right and so i would just sit there and i would just listen to the games and those are just some of my fondest memories but how'd you end up here? What happened? You know, my mother and father got a divorce when I was really young. I mean, look, my mother got pregnant with me when she was 16 years old.

Wow. Had me 17 days after her 17th birthday. Yeah. So on paper. You grew up together. Oh, yeah. We grew up together. So on paper, I didn't look very good.

You know, you're talking about a little black baby born to a black teenage girl in 1961. You wouldn't bet on that kid. Yeah. No. No, you would not bet on that kid. So my mother and father get a divorce. We had the Detroit riots, right? Yeah.

So they assassinated Martin Luther King. Like 69? 68. Yeah. So they assassinated Martin Luther King, and it was quite shocking. I'll never forget that. Yeah. So they assassinate Martin Luther King. And it was quite shocking. I'll never forget that. Yeah. I'm out in the middle of the street.

You're like seven or eight years old. Yeah. I'm out in the middle of the street playing baseball. And now I hear my mother and my grandmother screaming. Yeah. Like I've never heard them scream ever in my life. Right. Right.

And they just fall to the, it fell to the ground. They killed him. They killed him. They killed him. Yeah. And the next thing I knew, literally, I got to tell you, Mark, like less than two minutes later, I was looking down the street at a tank and troops coming towards me. Because the military immediately took over our neighborhood. Right.

It was like they knew this place was going to get lit up like a Christmas tree. Yeah. And the military, I mean, I was literally looking down the barrel of a tank. Eight years old. Yeah. I was seven years old. Seven years old. And they're coming down and the troops are walking on the grass with the rifles and the bayonets.

And they're like, you know, pointing the guns, get in, get in. Yeah. And the place got lit up. And my mother and I came out to visit some relatives, summer of 68. Yeah. And it was supposed to be a two week vacation. Right. And never went back. She loved it. Yeah, she loved it. And it was great out here. Just amazing. Los Angeles. And we just slept for a couple of years on a lot of sofas and a lot of floors. Really? Oh, yeah. And wherever somebody was gracious enough. Family. Family, let us have a bed or so. And it was amazing. So she ended up getting into UCLA, my mother. And she ended up going to UCLA and getting her master's degree in cinema TV production. Wow, so she's in her 20s.

Yep, that's right. And you're like eight or nine. And she's got a little baby, me, and she's got a little kid. And she's doing it, though. She's doing it. She's a single mother. And we're got a little baby, me, and she's got a little kid. And she's doing it, though. She's doing it. She's a single mother. And we're out there, and she gets into UCLA.

And because she's at UCLA, she's able to get a job as an intern. She goes to NBC. Right. And she says, well, first, she got a job at the Salvation Army. Yeah. She was working over at the Urban League, and they told her about the Salvation Army. So she was giving away goods. Yeah. And she was helping families that were disadvantaged to get placed so they weren't homeless. And while she was going to UCLA, and she went to NBC.

And she said, hey, do you have an intern? In Burbank. In Burbank, that's right. Do you have an intern program? And they said, no, we don't. And she said, well, will you start one with me? Is that true? That's true. And they said, we don't and she said well will you start one with me is that true that's true yeah and they said yes we will and that was the the question that say that changed our lives well you start an intern program with me

and who like for what show in general in just to go just to be an intern anywhere on the lot so this 1970 yeah 72 yeah 72 or so anywhere on the lot. So this is 1970? 72? Yeah, 72 or so. Anywhere on the lot at NBC. Uh-huh. Right? Right here in Burbank. Right.

And she goes there. She becomes an intern, and people start to like her. Yeah. And they say, you know, maybe you should be a tour guide. At the studio. At the studio. Yeah, right. And give tours.

Right. And I'm out there with her, waiting for her to get off work. Because at this point, hey, you don't have- You're 11 or 12? You don't have a nanny. Yeah. Yeah, at this point, I'm 12 or 13. Yeah.

You don't have a nanny, right? Right, yeah. So I go out there, I'm waiting for her to get off work, and I'm watching Johnny Carson do The Tonight Show. And then I would- You're just hanging around. Just hanging around. At NBC.

At NBC. Yeah, yeah. Right? so I'm like 12 13 years old then I walk across the hall and I'm watching Red Fox do Sanford is that true absolutely I'm watching Red Fox do Sanford and Son then I go across the hall I'm watching Flip Wilson do the Flip Wilson show I could not make this up then I I go down the hall, and I'm watching Freddie Prinze do Chico and the Man. And I'm just going all over NBC, and I'm watching all of these shows. And they all knew you because of your mom.

They saw I'm the kid. His mom works here. Right. She later became a publicist. So I'm talking about a number of years here. She was an intern, a tour guy, then a publicist. How funny was Red Fox? Red Fox was amazing

amazing so you're talking probably what am I talking about I'm probably talking about a 8 to 10 year span yeah so I'm out there and I'm watching Bob Hope

do his specials yeah and I'm watching because you could get in for everything I just walk in they knew me all the crew

the cast everybody knew me you said Richard Richard who Richard Pryor so he was doing he did his specials out there and he did the richard prior show which was very short-lived the network specials yeah the network yeah yeah it was very i'll never forget the opening i learned

so much being wallpaper yeah at mbc yeah starting at like age 12 yeah and i'm just there and i'm watching the the watching the writers, the producers, the directors. I mean, were you just with this kid that's hanging around? And I'm just absorbing everything. And I'm watching the crew and I'm watching the lighting guy and I'm watching everybody. Because you, just primarily because. I love it. But also your mom, you just, you had to wait for your mother.

I'm sitting there waiting for my mother to get off work. So I'm sitting there and I my mother to get off work. So I'm sitting there, and I made NBC my playground. And I'm sitting there, and I'm watching Bob Hope, and I'm watching George Burns, and I'm watching Rich Little. They're all still alive. They're all there. Then I walk down, and I watch them do a soap opera, Days of Our Lives. I'm watching a young weatherman named Pat Saj before he gets uh before he gets wheel of fortune i'm watching a young sportscaster named bryant gumbo before he gets the today show are you they're all there

they're all there at nbc and kbc and i'm just going and i'm watching all of this production being made these tv shows so when do you decide to do comedy i Right there. I'm sitting there. I'm going, this is the greatest thing ever. I am in heaven. Yeah. I am watching people just do what they love, make people laugh. And I knew right then and there, I said, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to be a comedian. I'm going to make people laugh.

So how'd you do it? Like, what were your steps? Well, you know, I just kept watching all. I used to sit in a parking lot and wait for Johnny Carson to pull up. And Johnny would pull up at 2 o'clock like clockwork. Yeah. And he would get out of his white Corvette or his Mercedes at two o'clock with his brown paper bag sack. And I'd say, hello, Mr. Carson.

And he had a little pep to his step and he goes, hello, young man. How you doing, Byron? I said, I'm doing great, sir. He says, good to see you. He knew me by first name. There you go. I said, great show last night. Oh? I said, I'm doing great, sir. He says, good to see you. He knew me by first name. There you go. I said, great show last night. Oh, I have a great show.

He would go. He would do a show straight up at 5.30. Yeah. Dun, dun, dun, dun. Right. At 6.30, show was over. Yeah. And he was back in his car by 7 o'clock.

Right. Like clockwork. He pulled onto that lot at 2. He was back in that car by seven yeah and i watched all of these comedians and i just watched how they how they interacted with everybody how they wrote and they read it when they would appear on the show and stuff oh yeah when they would appear on the show or they would rehearse i watched a lot of rehearsing uh when they were doing the like the reading from the cards exactly you know it's like johnny

i learned so much like johnny he didn't like the reading from the cards and stuff. Exactly. You know, it's like Johnny Carson. I learned so much. Like Johnny, he didn't like having people flip the cards for him. So he invented something I'd never seen before. He took all of his material. So let's say he did 20 jokes that night. He would put it on a board that went the length of the studio. And so he would have the jokes going all the way across the studio. Really? Yeah, all the way across the studio and so he would have the jokes yeah going all the way across the studio really yeah all the way across the studio so what would happen is if you pay attention right if you notice when

he walks out and he hits his mark he starts to he favors more to the left yeah because you read from left to right right so he's reading the jokes on the left and towards the end of the monologue he starts going to the right he starts going to the right and it also mark it gave him the ability to edit so he would do joke one two three if joke three didn't work the way he felt it should have worked he would skip joke four right go to joke five and then get a stronger and then come back to four if he wanted right right it was really clever yeah and i watched him right. It was really clever. Yeah. And I watched him do that.

It was really... So as an audience member, you could see this big strip of board? Yes, exactly. Yeah. If you were at the studio, you could see it, right? Right.

And it was things like that and he would never interact. He would never interact with the talent, right? Because he wanted everything to be fresh. Oh, you mean before the show? Before the show. Sure. Right.

So he wanted everything to be very spontaneous oh you mean before the show before the show right so he would he wanted everything to be very spontaneous like because he never wanted anybody to say hey mark like i said to you in the parking lot right no no he wanted that i know yeah exactly like i told you that story over yeah he wanted to be right there in the moment yeah so i mean i would watch these guys negotiate with the studios the studios were more involved in right i mean the net how would you watch them negotiate they would be in the hallway and you would watch them right there and they would fight over which jokes could stay in and they would put in three or four jokes and they knew like two of them were so dirty they would never get on so they can get the other two everybody must have been like what's this little kid hanging around for i was wallpaper i would

just like you're everywhere i'm just i would blend in and i would just kind of like quietly just listen no don't make eye contact just being in the room and around them i mean i watched red fox get so upset about what well he didn't have a window in his dressing room and he said i'm i screw you i'm not coming back here until you give me a window in my dressing room it was a big day because i have the number one show on nbc and you've got me in this box and i don't have a window in my dressing room so they had to blow out a wall and give red fox oh my god i mean i the story and then he i would see him he go hey how you doing good you want some cabbage i got some cabbage and he pulled out a wad of cash yeah it would probably be about 20 000 in cash yeah i got some cabbage you want some cabbage and you know i was i would watch him and i loved him i admired him i mean i was too young to even

know his jokes i think you know i'm like a little kid and and you know you could get sanford and son oh well no you're talking about the dirty joke oh yeah the dirty yeah because Red Fox at that point yeah he was they found him normally they found him and doing party records and doing the circuit and he was as dirty as they come yeah and these little ladies would come to the taping of the show right and they were like we love you Sanford we love you did he ever engage with the audience? Oh, yeah. And he would go, I'll never forget. I'll never forget.

I don't even know. I must have been, I don't even know at this point. I must have been, what, 12 years old, 13 years old. Red Fox comes out in the audience. These little old ladies are going crazy. Oh, my God. And he comes out. And they were like, tell us a joke.

Tell us a joke. And then you could see the panic in the producer's face. Like, don't. Don't tell them a joke tell us a joke right and then you could see the panic in the producer's face like don't don't tell them a joke and he's like no they were like tell us a joke right and he goes oh okay go i'll tell you a joke right and i'm like oh boy and then you could just see the network executives go oh my god stop they can't stop it it's like it's a bad car accident right and he goes i was making out with my girlfriend in the back of the car. I was making out with her. And we was getting all hot and steamy.

And it was really hot and steamy. He said, oh, red, red. Kiss me where it stinks. Kiss me where it stinks. So I took her out to El Segundo. You should have seen the looks on these little old ladies. They went, oh, my God. And I just remember looking around, and the executives were like, oh, my God.

They were just shaking their heads. Did they laugh, though? Oh, yeah, they laughed. Yeah, they got it. So I got to watch this, and it was just amazing, the negotiation. Richard Pryor did a special, right? Yeah. I'll never forget this.

He's standing there. He goes, you know, I'm Richard Pryor. The network wanted me to do this special. I told them I am not. It's the opening monologue. It's the opening monologue. And he's standing there. He doesn't have a shirt on.

He doesn't have a shirt on. He's standing there. He goes, I told these executives, you're not going to tell me how to do my thing. I'm Richard Pryor. And the camera's slowly pulling back. He said, I'm not giving up a thing. I'm going to do it my way. I don't have to give up anything because I'm Richard Pryor. And the camera's slowly pulling back. He's like, I'm not giving up a thing. I'm going to do it my way. I don't have to give up anything because I'm Richard Pryor. And they pull

back and he's completely castrated. Right, right. Like, whoa! Like, this is Rhyme Time Network TV. The brain damage they had to go through and Richard insisted on getting that done. It's like a weird body suit. Yeah, he had a body suit and nothing's there. And they pull all the way back.

There's nothing there. Yeah, it's funny. And, you know, you just watched all. I mean, I could not have had a better childhood. When does it start, though? When do you get on stage?

You know, great question. I remember saying, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to be a comedian. Yeah. So I wrote a script. How old are you? I'm probably 13 years old

at this point. So I write a script and I write a script for Red Fox, Sanford and Son. You wrote the whole TV script? The whole TV script. And I write the script, and Red Fox thinks that Aunt Esther is dying, so he's super nice to her. And the script got rejected. Right. But I ended up getting a friend and a mentor, God bless his soul, David Panish.

He read the script and he just went, he was a writer on the show. On Sanford and Son. And Chico and the Man. Oh, Chico and the Man? Yeah. And he goes, who wrote this? And also he had been a writer for George Slaughter on Laughing. And he goes, who wrote this?

And I said, I did, sir. Yeah. He goes, no, no, who wrote this script? And I said, I wrote this script. I love Sanrancisco and i love red flocks yeah boom he goes okay i gotta tell you something i can't believe you wrote this i can't believe you're 13 years old and you wrote this script he goes whatever you do you keep writing you can do yeah that was amazing to hear from somebody sure so i took the material the jokes in that script and that was my first monologue how long I five minutes it was five minutes yeah

and and basically I went on stage sound like red fire and you're 14 I'm 14 years old so it really worked why you sound like an 80 year old were you performing that so I go oh I know what happened yeah you bring it back old memories buddy Gladys Knight and the Pips had a summer show. Yeah. They had a summer show. So I go and I'm watching. At NBC?

At NBC. They're taping their show. And she had a comedian on. And the comedian was hilarious. And I go and I knock on the door of the comedian. I said, sir, I'd like to be a comedian like you. And what should I do? He said, you should go to the comedy store.

And I said to him, I said, listen, I really thought you were funny. I'm going to check out that sitcom you were talking about that's going to start in September. What's it called again? He goes, Welcome Back, Cotter. And it was Gabe Kaplan. So Gabe Kaplan went on the Gladys Knight and the Pips summer show and did the whole, you know, sweat hog thing. Yeah. And he said, go to the comedy store.

So I called the comedy store and I said, hey, comedy store. I thought it was a supermarket, Mark. I didn't know. Right. I called the comedy store. I said, so what do you sell psych gags for? And routines. They go, no, no, no, no.

It's not a supermarket where you buy comedy right it's it's called the comedy store it's a nightclub you knucklehead yeah so i go oh well how do i get on stage i go we have tryout night on monday night potluck all right potluck he goes they said get here early because we get a line i, no problem. I know, weirdos. Right? So this is summer of 74 or 75. I go at nine in the morning. I take the bus. And I'm from where? I'm 13, 14 years old.

Where were you living? Olympic in La Brea, over by Olympic in La Brea. So I take the bus. And I'm sitting on the curb from 9 a.m. Yeah. Until about seven o'clock at night. And they open the door. And I'm like, number one, first one inm. Yeah. Until about 7 o'clock at night. And they open the door. And I'm like, number one.

First one in line. Yeah. And I go. And there's this lady sitting there at the desk. Yeah. And she goes, what's your name? And it was Mitzi Shore. Yeah.

Was she in the booth? No. No, she was just. At a desk. This is 1974, 75. So there's no original room yet? There's no main room yet. There's no main room. Right.'s no main room yet. There's no main room.

Right. It's just the original room. Yeah. So I'm sitting there with Jamie Masada, who goes on to open the Laugh Factory. Yeah. Remember that? The original Laugh Factory was like a hallway. It was like a hallway.

It was like the size of a hallway. That's it. Next to the Chinese restaurant. That's right. Greenblatt's, right? It was at Formosa was there before, right? Wasn't it right there, that old Chinese restaurant? That's right. That's exactly right yeah yeah so i go and and uh she goes how old are you

and i said i'm uh 14 yeah and she goes well you can't drink uh you're gonna you're gonna i'm gonna lose my license yeah so she goes because she paid with drinks right she goes the you get two drinks with this this is what it's how she paid you And she goes, you can only get soda pop. Yeah. And I said, no problem. She goes, and you have to stay outside. So I said, no problem. So I go get my two little soda pop, and I would stay in the back, right?

In the back of the comedy store. Back patio of the comedy store. Yeah. And I would just lean on people's cars until somebody came and got me. So the first time she saw you, she said could what do spots or what i went on stage and i was the first or second comic up and basically i entertained four people and 300 chairs yeah yeah so the crowd hadn't really gotten there the crowd had not but she watched you yes she watched me watched me. And she said, that was cute. Come back. Yeah.

And I kept coming back every Monday. But one of those nights, it was either first or second night, this guy comes up to me. Yeah. Wayne Klein. This guy. I'll never forget Wayne. I love Wayne. Was he a comic?

Yeah. Comic and a writer. Wayne Klein comes up to me. He says, who wrote those jokes? Yeah. I said, I wrote those jokes. I'm like, why do people keep asking me who wrote these jokes? Because you're a kid. He goes, who wrote those jokes? He goes i wrote those jokes i'm like why people keep asking me who wrote these yeah yeah because you're a kid who wrote those jokes he goes i said i wrote them he goes i know a guy who might be interested in writing with you and maybe we can give you a call i said

sure give me a call so next thing you know a week or two later my phone rings right and i answer the phone and uh the guy your mother's house my mother's house yeah right and phone and the guy. Your mother's house? My mother's house. Yeah. Right. And he says, the guy goes, may I speak to Byron? I go, this is Byron. He goes, this is Jimmy J.J. Walker. Now, Jimmy Walker is on Good Times. Yeah. And number one sitcom. He's hotter than the sun.

Yeah. And he goes, my man, Wayne Klein, says you're funny. the sun yeah and he goes my man wayne klein says you're funny yeah and if my man wayne klein says you're funny then you're funny yeah he goes so i was just wanting to see if you wanted to come write some jokes with me and my crew right and i said let me ask my mom yeah and then i heard jimmy go he has to ask his mom. And then this guy in the background said, tell his mom not to worry. We'll have cookies and milk for him. There you go. Right?

So my mom says yes, and I can't even believe this. She takes me to Jimmy's place. I walk into his apartment to write jokes. Was that that famous apartment where- Yeah, this is the apartment. But what's that guy, who else? Were there other comics? Oh, so I walk in.

You'll never believe. I walk in and sitting in his living room, this is 75. Yeah, 75, 76 at this point. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's Jay Leno. Yeah. Who was sleeping in his car. Right.

Off the 405 freeway. Yeah. And David Letterman. Yeah. Who had just driven out from Indianapolis in an orange or red pickup truck. Right. Because he didn't think he was going to make it. Right.

So he wanted to be able to get back in his car and drive home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Marty Natler, who went on to write and produce Laverne and Shirley in Happy Days. Jeff Stein, Wayne Dugan. These guys went on to do Mr. Belvedere. Yeah. And so Jimmy has us all in his apartment. Was this when he was running the management agency team?

And he had a management. He managed me. He managed David Letterman. What was it called? Ebony Entertainment. No, I forget what it was called. He managed Jay Leno. He managed me.

He managed Letterman. And he told us all, stop being a comedian. You don't want to be on TV. You want to be managed. And so Jay and Dave. What was the name of that company? I could never remember. So Jay and Dave were getting $200 a week.

And I got $25 a joke. So if I came up with a joke, Mark, boom, I got 25 bucks. Now this is huge for me because I had a paper route at this point. So this is like J.J. Walker. Yeah, this is Jimmy J.J. Walker. And so I had a paper route. I had to throw two newspapers. The Los Angeles Herald I had a paper. I had to throw two newspapers. The Los Angeles Herald-Examiner.

I had to throw two newspapers to make a penny. And when he wrote that check, he gave me that check for $25. I didn't know what to do. I said to my mother, I go, what is this? She said, that's a check. And I go, what happens now? She goes, you cash it. And I go, then what happens?

She goes, you put the money in your bank or whatever you do. I went, wow. So I said, you know what? I don't want to cash now? She goes, you cash it. And I go, then what happens? She goes, you put the money in your bank or whatever you do. I went, wow. So I said, you know what? I don't want to cash it. She goes, why not? I go, because the signature's on it and I can't believe somebody gave me a $25 check for something I would do for free

for the rest of my life. And she said, well, cash the check and ask him if he'll give you it to you. So I cashed the check and I went to him and I said, you know the check I cashed? Can I get it back? He goes, yeah. And to this day, I have it framed. You it framed and hanging in my office. Your first check?

25 bucks. That was the moment I knew. Do you still talk to Jimmy? All the time. I love him. And I, and I, and I, and to this day, that was the moment I like, I could make it in his business. And we used to sit in his apartment. How is he? It was, Jimmy's great. He's amazing. He just, he's just one of those, like he is committed to the art of comedy and he's fantastic. Do you still write jokes for him?

No, no. He fired me. Your jokes, I'm like, cause I, I will take him buddy. He'll,

he'll let you write for him still. Yeah, yeah, but I never stopped doing standup because you're keeping the good stuff for yourself. You're fired. So we used to sit

in his apartment. I mean, it's one of those things. It's so funny. You're sitting there and it's David Letterman and Jay Leno and Marty Naller and Wayne Klein. What were those guys? What were your memories of those guys at that time? I mean, Jay never wrote anything. He wouldn't like write it up on paper.

He would come and enhance our jokes. Yeah. Like he would go and embellish our jokes. And Jay was amazing. He immediately knew how to fix a joke. Like, bam, right there in the moment. I still have the notebook somewhere of all the material people would bring in. And Letterman, he was so diligent.

He would come in with a couple of pages and really thought it through. Wayne Klein, Marty Nell, these guys were real, like they wrote it. And then we would sit around a coffee table, listen to the material, and make it better. And how do you make it better? And Jimmy would be sitting there too? Oh, absolutely. And he would try it? Oh, yeah. So we would sit there and we'd say, Jimmy, how material, and make it better. And how do you make it better? And Jimmy would be sitting there too? Oh, absolutely. And he would try it? Oh, yeah.

So we would sit there and we'd say, Jimmy, how about this? Make the joke. And that's where I learned. And you're 14. I'm 14. So they must be busting your balls a little. Oh, yeah. But they were great.

They were like big brothers. Right. And this is where I learned the art of writing comedy, right? Right. That craft. Sure. And I just, you go, and Jay was like, okay, move this word over here, cut this word,

delete this, get to the joke faster, boom. Exaggerate a little bit more here. So everybody, I learned so much sitting in that room. And you were still doing, you were doing spots too? Oh yeah, I was doing spots. I would go do my standup and then walk down two blocks to go to the comedy store and do my act. And then I would wait for Jimmy to come later, do his act, and I would take notes.

Yeah, and she would stand in the room by that point? Yeah, I would just stand in the back. I would make sure if I saw her coming, I'd run out the front. I couldn't wait until the day I turned 21. Oh, I think she started serving food or something. I think I was okay when I was 18. Now, so you're doing, like, just regular weeknight spots and weekend spots yeah and you're like 15 or 16 yeah i'm there every night i'm just going and doing stand up and i'm doing

the comedy store and i'm doing the improv you remember from that time in the 70s that was really killing oh my goodness man it was it was magical yeah it was just magical i remember like all these comedians would just come through and it was unbelievable. You know, one of the greatest experiences I had watching Richard Pryor show up. And this was unbelievable to witness this whole process. In the 70s? Yeah. Yeah. So Richard comes in.

Right. And he was a rock star. Yeah. Mega star. Yeah. I mean. Right. Full grown men would start crying

when they saw him. Oh my God, they were like, Richard, Richard. Like they were crying. Yeah. Okay, like the sunset would get blocked, like traffic would stop. People jumped out of their cars and just, it was like the Beatles.

It was insane. Right, yeah just, it was like the Beatles. It was insane. Right. Yeah. He would get on the stage. In the original room? In the original room. Yeah. Because everybody knew his records.

Yeah. And he would get on the stage, and it would probably be a 15-minute standing ovation. Ladies and gentlemen, we have a surprise guest. Please welcome Richard Pryor. He's so huge. Right, and at this point, people think they're gonna just see a bunch of unknown comedians. Yeah.

And Richard Pryor hits the stage and people lose their minds and they start screaming out his routines like it was a hit record. Right, like they knew all the lyrics. Would he do them though or would he do new shit? No, that was it, that was the point. And he, they would go crazy.

Mud bone. Mud bone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, he said, no, I'm not going to do any of that. And he would start talking and he would bomb. Yeah. Like, oh my God. Yeah.

They were like, what? I just watched Richard Pryor bomb. Yeah. And he would go on night after night and he would bomb. Yeah. Night after night and he would bomb. And I was like, I said, hey, you know, he was cool with me. Yeah.

I said, hey, Richard, you know, how's it going up there? What are you thinking? Like, they're going crazy every night. Standing ovation as he walked on. Right. Not so when he left. Yeah. And I'll never forget he looked at

me and he said you're only as good as you dare to be bad you have to go through this process you have to just let go of the old and you have to just be honest and open up and it will happen don't worry about it no share yourself. Just share yourself. And I watched him. And literally, probably four months later, you start to just see the genius. Like he just kept talking and kept talking. Oh, you see him honing the bits. Honing. And stuff that stuck. And it was more like therapy.

Like he just talked about things no one ever talked about. But you'd see at the beginning where it didn't have any form. And you didn't know how it would be funny. And he stuck with the themes and they start to build they mark he would go on stage find themselves yeah he wasn't even close to be close to find you he would go on stage and you could hear a mouse piss on cotton really they wouldn't indulge him at all it was just dead and it was just kept talking. And it was like, wow. It was like a therapy session. That became what most comedians considered to be Richard Pryor live in concert. Right. The one that he shot out in Long Beach.

The first one. The very first one. That's what that became. No. That is what that became because he did that. Something like that. There it is. And then he went and started doing after the comedy store.

And just working through it. Then he went and started doing, after the comedy store. Yeah. And just working through it. Then he went and did a tour. And then they went and shot a couple of nights out in Long Beach. And comedy never was the same after he laid down that 90 minutes in Long Beach. Oh, I saw it when I was in high school. It changed my life. I mean, it changed the trajectory of comedy. Sure.

Because up until that point, we as comedians, we were a freak show. We were a little like, we were like- I don't know how, there's still a freak show. Yeah, exactly. So we were half a click from being in the circus. And so, because we always saw us like as a five minute act on Ed Sullivan and this and that. Oh, I see. I see what you're saying.

So you're saying that like there was still some of that, you know, kind of like broad, sticky stuff going on. When you think about it, most Americans had never seen a comedian do it in long form. Most Americans had only seen us do stand-up for four minutes on Ed Sullivan or The Tonight Show. So when they filmed his 90 minute concert it blew people's minds billy braver thought he had to turn in his lunchbox i love billy i love him you're going way back the comedians i mean it was just lenny schultz and just the comedians that came through there and how smart they were and how funny they were and it was like it's And it was like, it's a movie.

It's a TV show. You think about the personalities. Yeah, they had that. They tried it. I'm dying up here. They tried the show. Well, you know, and I love Jim Carrey. And I'll never forget.

Were you there? You were there after LeBitkin killed himself. No, I was there the night he killed himself. You were? Yeah. I was there. I was there because- What year was that? I thought that was, I guess it was night he killed himself. You were? Yeah. I was there. I was there because- What year was that?

I thought that was, I guess it was after 73. Exactly. It was, I think it was 79. Really? That was the strike? Yeah, that was the 78, 79 was the strike. You were there that day, huh? Oh, I was there when he killed himself.

And he was distraught over the strike. And he went to what was the Hyatt Hotel next door and he jumped off towards the comedy store and he killed himself. And to this day, there are comedians who don't talk to each other over that. It was devastating. I mean, the things I saw.

And you were still a kid though, right? Yeah, at that point I was 17, 18 years old. So you knew what was going on. I knew, of course I knew what was going on. Did you course i knew what did you strike what did you were you did you cross the line no i was one of the comedians that struck and i was doing the improv right right so i did the improv and uh i was jimmy took you over there yeah right no no bud freeman became like a second father to me i love right bud came out he took care first time i ever got paid to perform was for Bud Freeman. He comes up to me one night.

But didn't Mitzi get pissed off? It was really interesting. Mitzi and Bud didn't mind sharing me. Most other comics, that was a no-no. I got lucky. Right. And Bud came up to me one night and he said, what are you doing New Year's Eve? I go, I'm like 16 years old.

I'm like 15, 16 years old. I said, I'm not doing anything New Year's Eve. He goes, you want to perform New Year's Eve? I go, I'm like 16 years old. I'm like 15, 16 years old. I said, I'm not doing anything New Year's Eve. He goes, you want to perform New Year's Eve? I go, sure. So I perform New Year's Eve, think nothing of it. I had a blast. It was nice to be out in New Year's Eve. Comes up to me a month later, two months later, he hands me a check for $25. I go, what is this for?

Everyone's paying you $25. That was my going rate, 24 joke or stand up 25 and he says uh you perform new year's eve and i pay yeah uh comedians to perform on the one night i pay at this point was new year's eve i said wow this is great i have that check framed and hanging so when lubickan jumps off the building you were at the store yeah i mean yeah we got ambulance came and everything and it was like yeah we came and we came and it was like great chaos. Yeah, we came, and it was crazy, and they go, he killed himself. You're like, what? Are you kidding me?

It was really a tough, tough time. I mean, it was brutal. But he had difficulty anyways, right? That's what they say. I mean, I didn't know him that well, but I mean, when that happened. He was Richard's friend. You knew Richard Lewis? Yeah, oh my God.

They were best friends, right? I tell you, Richard Lewis. You know what? I still wear the cologne I wear today because of Richard Lewis? Yeah. Oh, my God. They were best friends, right? I'll tell you, Richard Lewis. You know what? I still wear the cologne I wear today because of Richard Lewis. Right? The funny things you bring up, Mark. Richard, we were at the improv, and he comes in, I give him a hug, and I say, Richard,

I go, Richard, that's the greatest cologne ever. I go, I want to wear this cologne. And he would not, for, Mark, I think it took over a year for him to finally tell me what the cologne was what was it i can't tell you no no so and finally i kill my god go richard you i love this cologne will you all right he goes he goes okay i'm so sick of you asking he goes it's aqua de selva i go aqua de selva he goes yeah he goes you can buy it down at the drugstore at rexall so i go to reall. I get Aqua De Selva. I am probably at this point 18 years old. I am 58 years old.

I still wear that cologne today. Really? Because of Richard Lewis. It's still the same stuff? 40 years later, my Aqua De Selva. It's the one thing I say to my wife, honey, whenever we do, make sure I don't run out of Aqua De Selva. And they still sell it at the drugstore?

No, we go online and get it now. I had never heard of it. I had never heard of it. I had never heard of it. I kept going, Richard, what's the cologne? He probably doesn't even remember it. This is how strange my life is. Comedians send me on this path. So that was it.

We get to the Comedy Store. We're doing our stand-up. And I remember one night I called Jim McCauley. The book mccauley at the the booker of the tonight show booker of the tonight show for johnny carson it's a big deal again on the tonight show this is like 78 and 1978 now this side now my memory gets better around these years so i call mccauley and i say listen i'd love for you to take a look at my stand up i want to make sure i'm going in the right direction and which mr carson would appreciate me uh my type of humor and. I want to make sure I'm going in the right direction and which Mr. Carson would appreciate me. My type of humor and I just want to make sure I'm

going in the right direction. So he comes and he looks at me and he calls me up like I don't even know like a month later and he says I'd like for you to be on the show with Johnny Carson. Wow. I was 17 years old. Yeah. I was 17. Were you wondering if Johnny would

remember you from the lot when you were a kid? I figured he would because he saw me so much. Yeah. And I said, I turned it down. Why? And I said, I was 17 years old. This is 1978. Yeah.

And my mother said, why'd you turn it down? I said, because I'm not training for a sprint. I'm training for a marathon. When I do the show, I want to do it to make sure we never have to look back. Oh, so you wanted to have enough time to. If you get offers, you want to be able to accept them. You have to do the job. To do the job.

Right. If you go and you get. Smart. You can't get booked on five minutes yeah at a club exactly and if you do and if you're 17 you can't accept the gig because you're 17 and still in high school right so i said you know respectfully please understand let me get out of high school and let me get into college and my mom will know that hey this comedy thing is great right yeah so i ended So I ended up doing the show. It's like my second birthday, May 17th, 1979. What are you, 18?

I was 18 years old. I just finished high school. And I ended up being the youngest. You're the youngest? I'm the youngest comedian to do it with Johnny. Somebody tell Alan Berski that. No, I beat Alan by a year. He was 19.

He was 19. Probably got on you about that. Yeah, he's mad at me about it no i love no no no so i i did the show uh yeah i ended up being the youngest comic to do it with him yeah and i'll never and i was so comfortable there because when johnny would leave the studio right at seven o'clock yeah that studio would be empty right seven o'clock sure 30 minutes later and i used to go stand on his spot and read his monologue and i would go read the cue cards because they would still be on the knew the place i knew that i would go sit at his desk yeah i would go sit on his sofa and pretend

that i was like this yeah i don't know what he know but his crew knew it because they were still cleaning up right i actually sat at his desk and interviewed one of the crew guys. Just for fun? Just for fun. I was like, tell me, so we've got Bob on. He wrote a book, Cleaning Up After the Stars. I would just hang out. Yeah, yeah.

And just interview people. And that was like my bedroom, that studio with Johnny. Yeah. So I'm backstage, and he's about to introduce me. Connie Stevens has just finished singing the song, It's Gonna Take a Lot of Love. Yeah. And it's about to introduce me. Connie Stevens is just finished singing the song. It's going to take a lot of love. Yeah. And it's a commercial break. And the guys are joking with me backstage, the guys who open the curtains.

And we're just kind of having fun because I've known them for years. Right. Literally, I've known these guys for five years. Right. And all of a sudden, they stop laughing. And it gets real serious. And they look up and they go and it's i turn around and it's johnny carson yeah i'm behind the curtain and he goes he goes he says don't worry

son you're gonna be great this is what he said yeah this is my hero yeah i love this guy yeah right when he got up from his desk and said that to me i could have made chairs laugh yeah right and i had some practice doing that right from the could have made chairs laugh yeah right and i had some practice doing that right from the early days of the comedy store yeah and i walked out he gave me an amazing introduction i walked out we did it it went extremely well yeah he had me come over shake his hand i got multiple offers my favorite one of my favorites was an offer from joan rivers to do a sitcom because i knew when i was standing behind that curtain, I knew I was standing there and I said, what I'm about to do in the next five minutes will change my life and my mother's

life forever. We will never look back. We'll never have to worry about it. And it did then. And it did. Back then. Boom. It did.

So we hit that mark May 17th, 1979. What were the other offers? Oh, my goodness. Joan Rivers wanted you to do a sitcom. She wanted me to do it. She was good. But stand-up work, did you end up opening for bands and shit? Oh, my God.

Are you kidding me? Oh, my God. Oh, my. Mark, are you kidding me? Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. So one of the offers I got was a show.

There were a number of shows. And I said, what's this one? And they said, well, this I got was a show. We're a number of shows. And I said, what's this one? And they said, well, this one is a reality show. I said, tell me about it. And they described it. And I'm very mathematical. I love numbers. And I said to myself, I said, this is the show I want.

And they said, why this one? I said, because we at that point, three networks. Yeah. And each network had 22 hours of primetime television. Yeah. I said, there's 66 hours of primetime television. Yeah. And this is the only hour different from all the other 66 hours.

65 hours. Right. And the show was real people. Yeah. I remember it. 66, 65 hours. Right. And the show was real people.

Yeah, I remember it. And I said, this show will probably go to top 10 and it will be on long enough to get me through USC. Oh, really? That was the big plan? That was the goal. How am I going to pay for USC film school? And sure enough, it became the granddaddy of reality shows. Yeah, I remember the show.

I remember, like, what year was that, man? 79 to 84. That was a long run. Yeah. So I did the show. I did The Tonight Show May 17th, and the next week I was off doing my first real people story in Columbus, Ohio. Yeah.

I did a story on the biggest, meanest roller coaster ever, The Beast at Kings Island. Yeah. And so that was my first story and I did that show for five years and I traveled all over America yeah and I remember able to really see America those little tiny towns Coast Shockton Ohio Waterloo and all those guys that came from there like were the other guys like Skip was a. And Fred Willard came from the Bay Area. Fred Willard. Bill Rafferty.

Was Willard in the, which comedy? Willard was more improv. With a group. It wasn't the committee. It was another one. I can't remember. Rafferty was a comic. Stand Up.

Stand Up. Yep. And Skip Stevenson, Stand Up. Right, right. And then it was just great. And Sarah Purcell was just a wonderful crew. Now, were you doing stand up as well? Yes.

Like, were you doing like opening for bands? Oh my goodness. Like, who'd you open for? So, I had the greatest personal appearance agent ever. Okay.

Who was that? Ben Bernstein. Yeah. Ben Bernstein. Love you, Ben. So, Ben.

Still around? Yeah, he's still around. Not my agent anymore. He's not, he retired. But I love him. So,

Ben, Ben represented every music act on the planet. Yeah. So this is who I go on tour opening for everybody. Sure. Lionel Richie, Kenny Rogers, Dolly Parton, the Pointer Sisters, Al Jarreau, Smokey Robinson, Lou Rawls, Julie Andrews. And that was the gig though, right?

There was no comedy clubs yet. That was the gig and that was the gig though right there was no comedy clubs yet that was the gig that was the gig so I would go on tour and just open for everybody from A to Z

I'll never forget Ben Bernstein calls me up one day he says Byron I know he goes listen Byron he goes you and I have this arrangement

that I need to run everything by you and I go yeah what do you have man he goes well he goes I don't really want to waste your time but you know I just want to run it by you. And I go, yeah, what do you have, man? He goes, well, he goes, I don't really want to waste your time, but I just want to run it by you because that's our relationship.

I said, sure. He goes, well, there's this young lady and it's her second time on stage and she's going to be at the Roxy. Down the street. Down the street. And we're going to have just industry people. They want to showcase her for the industry.

And it's like 200 people, and she's a little nervous. It's her second time on stage. They want somebody like you to warm up the crowd. She's a new client, but it only pays $50. I go, Ben, I pass, but listen, thanks for checking in with me on that and i go but by the way what's this girl's name yeah he goes uh whitney whitney houston yeah i go whitney houston i swear to you i had just gone to tower records yeah on sunset when we had record stores and i'm walking down the aisle and i see her on the cover of this album i said oh my god this girl is

beautiful right i don't even care if she can sing. Yeah. I'm buying this album. Right. I don't even know if she can sing. She's beautiful. I'm buying the album. Right.

That's why they have covers. That's why they have covers. I buy the album and like every song I'm like, oh my God, this girl can sing. So I said, Ben. No, no, no. I said, Ben, no problem. No problem. I said, Ben, I'm cool.

$50. We're good. We're good. And he did it. I said, just give me two tickets. $50, we're good, we're good. And he did it. I said, just give me two tickets. I'm going to take my mom. This is it. We go.

I do my 20 minutes. She comes on stage. Didn't need me. This, she got like, I don't know, six or seven standing ovations. No kidding. I mean, every song, she's just blowing the roof off. It was insane. Wow.

It was insane. That was like her Hollywood debut in a way. Exactly. It was her second time. And, you know, they did a, they did a, in turn, in front of the industry, they did it. They did, I forget the name of the club in New York. It was the equivalent of the Roxy in New York. And they did it there, like the Apple or something like that.

And they did it in New York. And then they came to LA and Clive Davis wanted to showcase her. So Ben calls me up, Ben Bernstein calls me up. He says, Byron, he goes, Whitney loves you and she's going to go out and do a tour. And the first date is at Carnegie Hall and she wants you to come open for her. I go, 50 bucks?

He goes, no, I got you more. I tell Whitney I love her too. But we went out on tour with every, the Portney sisters. So that was that Carnegie date. Oh, it was. It was great. The Carnegie Hall date?

Yeah. Okay, so I'll tell you the story. Carnegie Hall. So Carnegie Hall, I'll tell you the story. So Carnegie Hall, I go out and open for her and she was amazing. It was great.

Now there's a rule. There's a rule that you never open the side door. You know, the door to the street. You never open that backstage door to the street. At Carnegie in particular? Or any venue. Oh, is that true?

Yeah. What do you mean never open? You just don't open the door. Like, if anybody's supposed to be back there, you have the credentials to get back there. Yeah. Right? So anybody knocking on that door, they don't have a pass. They don't have the credentials.

Right. Don't let the people from the street in. Well, don't open the door. It's like a horror movie. Don't go in the attic. Yeah, right. Don't let the people from the street in. Don't open the door. It's like a horror movie. Don't go in the attic. Yeah, right. Don't open the door, right? Right.

So I get off stage and all of a sudden I hear this banging on the side door. And it's like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. At Carnegie Hall. At Carnegie Hall. Yeah. And I'm like, and I just said, you know, I know the rule. Don't open the door. Right.

You don't open the door to the street. Whoever that knucklehead is. Yeah. That knucklehead is not supposed to be here because they don't have a pass right right bang bang bang bang bang and i'm like no nope nope i'm not gonna open that door and then but the way they kept knocking i'm like who is knocking on this door like this yeah so i said okay i'm gonna open the door i'm gonna'm going to break the rule. I opened the door and standing there with a dozen red roses, Robert De Niro. Come on. Mark, I can't. I'll make this up.

I'm looking and I'm going, is this Robert De Niro with a dozen red roses? And he looks at me with that look in his eye and he goes, where's Whitney? Yeah. That was it. That was it. And I said. you know what he had on his mind i don't have like i said i said uh i said you see those two really big brothers at the end of the hall like they like the side like 280 pounds each all muscle the two of them i go she's behind that door Now, if you get past those two brothers, inside are three more. And one of them is actually her real brother. But he's Robert De Niro.

And I thought maybe that would scare him away. No. No. He just said, thank you, and walked straight to her dressing room. Oh, my God. That's great. That was Carnegie Hall. That was great.

Yeah. So it's just amazing was carnegie hall that was great yeah so you know so it's just amazing you go on tour i i remember i would go i went on to it look the point is this just kept me alive for over a decade i went on tour with after after real people after real people from 84 on i was on the road for a good 12 years and i remember being on the road who you were though yeah they knew who i was they knew me they knew me and so i was i said you know i'm sitting there and i'm doing these dates and i'm with smoky robinson and smoky i think our tour bus was a greyhound bus like he had just chartered a greyhound bus but smoky and i smoky we we get off stage you know this you get off stage at like 10

o'clock 11 o'clock at night. You're so hyped up. Oh, yeah. Right? You have all this energy. Yeah. So Smokey and I would play chess until 7 in the morning. Well, that's relatively safe.

Right? Until, yeah. Oh, yeah. And then the moment Bryant Gumpel came on the Today Show, we knew, okay, this game's over. We got to go get some sleep. Let's go do this gig again. So you would do the gig, get on the bus, eat at truck stops. Yeah.

Nice guy, Smokey. Oh, it's amazing. You're kidding me. One of the best human beings ever. I love, love him. Yeah. And so I was just, Sammy Davis Jr. had me open for him in summer of 81. I was 20 years old at Caesar's Palace.

Ben Bernstein says i got you uh working with sammy davis yeah i go all right ben you i love it baby let's do it right yeah so i go to lake tahoe yeah and i get to rehearsal they say yes uh mr davis is going to do a half an hour and then he's going to bring you out you're going to do 20 right i go no no no no i'm the opening act no i'm gonna do i'm gonna do a half hour. And then Sammy Davis Jr. is going to do whatever he does. But see, I'm the opening act, so I'm going to do my act. And then he's going to come back. They said, no, Mr. Davis wants to change it up.

And he wants to do 30 minutes. And then he wants you to do 20. And then he's going to come back out and do like an hour. I go, you want me to follow Sammy Davis Jr.? They go, yes, that's what. I go, I didn't sign up for this. Ben, what's going on? Ben, can I get Ben Bernstein on line one?

I said, Ben, I'm the opening act. You got Sammy opening for me. This is not going to work, Ben. He goes, Byron, just relax. Just go do, just, I said, okay. So I take a deep breath. He does his half hour. I go out and do my 20 minutes.

And I'm like, wow, okay, I got through that. Cause it was perfect. Cause he like just, he probably built you up. He built me up and he took the edge off cause it was like, who is this? We don't, we're Sammy. They got all, It was almost like a variety show in a way.

It was like a variety show. Yeah, yeah. And so I go, he says, I'm gonna freshen up my drink and I want you to spend some time with my funny young friend, blah, blah, blah. So I come off stage and bill harrah had just hired this butler from the queen of england who worked for the queen at buckingham palace from harrah's casino yeah harrah's hotel casino in lake tahoe and the butler's name was cam and the guy used

to work at buckingham palace serving the queen of england right and he brought him in to take care of all of his movie all of his stars performing at his hotel. Yeah. And Bill Herr really took care of people. He gave them a home on the lake with a chef and a car collection with Rolls Royces. Wow. And you could use the car collection. Whatever you want. He took care. Like, the entertainers loved Bill Herr because he treated them like megastars.

Yeah. And they were. So I come off stage and I get this knock on the door and it's Cam, the butler. Yeah. And he says, Mr. Allen, Sammy Davis Sr. would like to speak to you, sir. Yeah. And then I'm like, and I'm in my, I'm looking up at my monitor. Sammy Davis Sr.?

Yeah. I look at my monitor and I see Sammy Davis Jr. on stage. And I, well, he's on stage. What do you mean? He goes, no, he goes no no no no Sammy Davis seeing us yeah the father Wow the father Wow I go oh okay the father makes sense father he's got a father and he said Sammy's on stage right so I said sure and then he walks in this Sammy Davis senior walks in, and he is this tall, dark, handsome, statuesque man.

I mean, he's really like, wow, a presence, right? He's impeccable, like impeccable. And he comes in, may I have a seat, young man? Yes, sir. I'm 20 years old. And he has a seat. And he says, young man, I just watched your show. I said, oh, okay.

You were comedians. You want to hear it. It's funny. What made you laugh? He's like, interesting. This is what every comic strives for. Interesting. The worst.

The worst, right? So he says, I noticed when you were on stage there that you had a crease in your pants from hanging your pants on the back of the door. So he says, Bernard here, Bernard only. All he does is press and iron Sammy's clothes. And Bernard, from this point on, will be pressing and ironing your clothes. I said, OK. all right, all right. Then he says, and I also noticed when you're on stage, you had a smudge on your shoe.

And Ray here, all Ray does is shine Sammy's shoes. So Ray will be shining your shoes. He says, you see, young man, these people pay a lot of money to see us. And when we walk out there, we have to show them that we are impeccable, that we are brilliant. We are the best.

No one is better than us. And so son, you can't go out there with a crease in your pants and a smudge on your shoe Do we understand each other? I go? Yes, sir. Yes, we do and he walked out the room and I went oh my god This is why Sammy Davis jr. Is one of the biggest stars ever and he came from where? Yeah, and I and I became enamored with sammy because i realized in his story yeah oh my god right his mother had abandoned him he chased his father who had just read me the riot act chased his father at age three down the train track don't leave me daddy like my mother left

me yeah and he knew the only way he can keep his mother's his father's love was to be an entertainer because his father was an entertainer, the real master in trio, and he had to take the roof off. And I said, oh, this is one of the greatest stories ever. I now know why Sammy Davis Jr. is Sammy Davis Jr. You met him. I met the guy, and I was like, oh, my God. So when you talk about being on the road,

I lived on the road. One of those, you know, you wake up, you're looking at cottage cheese ceilings, you don't know where you are. I everything from disney like a decade oh because i was on the road for about 20 years really 20 years well here's the thing like it's sort of interesting to me like in talking to you and getting this backstory it's like there was a period there where you know i i knew you from real people i when i was a doorman at the comedy store in the 80s i saw your picture there i I'm like, he was here.

He's a comic. I remember he's a comic. But then it just became this thing where, like, I wasn't thinking about Byron Allen. And then, like, late at night, like at two in the morning, I just see, like, Byron Allen talking to a celebrity. And I'm like, where does this show come from?

How is Byron Allen on television what is he always on television and it just seemed to like show up like it late at night and the camera angles were weird you guys were fucking with the camera and I'm like is this his show and then and then it turns out like you know the arc of your career because oddly not oddly but you know on paper I mean you're really the most successful comic I've had in this place. You're opening for Sammy. Now, how do you get from there to having a $20 billion lawsuit against Comcast that's going to go to the Supreme Court? Somewhere in between you on the road and the weird show at three in the morning, you made a lot of fucking money.

That's a great question. You know, it was... And you own the Weather Channel. Well, the Weather Channel is a great business. Everybody will always need the weather and it's getting more and more extreme. You know, I got fired off of Real People for a minute. Yeah. And there was a contract dispute.

And I asked for the money in year three that my co-hosts were getting in year one. I didn't like that feeling of being fired. And at that moment, I had that epiphany, which was, it's not show business. It's business show. You have to juxtapose those two words. And that's when I said it's not about the show. You got to learn the business. And you have to learn the business innately.

And when you learn the business innately, you can do all the shows you want. No, all avenues. Wait, did you get that degree at UCLA? USC. No, I did not Wait, did you get that degree at UCLA? USC. USC? No, I did not finish. Okay.

My mother did. So you needed to educate yourself. I had to educate myself. It is business show. So I went to my very first NATP, the National Association of Television Programming Executives, in January of 81. And I have gone 38 consecutive years. Why'd you go that first time?

Because I didn't like that feeling of being fired and I wanted to learn the business. So you just went? And I went and I wanted to, someone said to me, this is where they have TV. All of the television station owners meet with all the people who produce and distribute television shows. Right. So I went there and I met a guy who became like a second father there. I met a lot of amazing people.

But this gentleman, Al Massini, and it was at the New York Hilton and right there in New York on Avenue of the Americas. And I went up there, whatever floor he was on, and I walk into the suite. I said, who's the best? They said, Al Massini. I walk in there and he's pitching these guys and he's telling them, here's what we have. We have the biggest movie star in the world on our pilot, and it's on the set of Smokey and the Bandit, and his name is Burt Reynolds. And the show, I'm going to tape the show every day at 1230, and I'm going to put it on the bird. People go, what's the bird?

He goes, satellite. They go, what's a satellite? It's new technology, and I'm going to put it on the bird at 2 o'clock. And everybody's going to air the same show at 7 o'clock that night. They go, what's the name of the show, Al? And Al Massini said, the name of the show that's going to start in September is called Entertainment Tonight. And I watched him pitch Entertainment Tonight and sell it in. And I thought, wow, this is amazing. I love this.

And I introduced myself. And I said, sir, I hear you. I love this. And I introduced myself and I said, sir, I hear you the best. Where are we having dinner? And he said, I'm with my clients and I'm gonna pass a seat. Save me a seat. And I learned a lot from him and I watched him sell entertainment tonight

and star search and lifestyles, rich and famous and solid gold. He did the first mini series, A Woman Called Golda about Golda Meir. Jimmy Hoffa, he did a miniseries about Jimmy Hoffa. He was just amazing. And what- Syndicated television.

King of syndication television. And what that is, I started my company. I was able to learn how to start my company from my dining room table. And I said, I did a one-hour special where I interviewed six or seven of my funny friends. And I made a one-hour special. And I said, you know what? I'm where I interviewed seven of my six or seven of my funny friends. And I made a one hour special. And I said, you know what? I'm going to make this a weekly one hour show. That's the one I saw.

That's the one you saw. That is the one you saw. And what it was. It's just you sitting by yourself with another guy. Talking, talking to somebody fucking with the camera. That's it. And so I get 14 minutes of commercial time. Yeah.

And I gave it. I said to the TV stations, I'm going to have 14 minutes of commercial time. I'm going to keep seven minutes. You television station, you keep seven minutes. You sell your seven minutes to local advertisers, banks, supermarkets, car dealers. I'm going to sell my seven minutes to national advertisers, to car companies and soda pop. I get it. Right?

Fast food. So you got to sell this to local affiliates yes so i had to i sat in markets i sat at my dining room table yeah from sun up to sundown right sat at my dining room table and i called all 1300 television stations hardest thing i've ever done and i asked them to carry my weekly one-hour show for free, Entertainers with Byron Allen, where I'm interviewing people. And this is in 93. And literally, I got about 50 no's from each of them, 50,000 no's, 40,000, 50,000 no's from each of them

to squeeze out 150 yeses. Because I needed a market in every market, from New York to Bangor, Maine. You needed one station? I needed one station in each market. Right. So I needed a station. So I spent a year doing that.

And finally, I had a lineup. And there was a company that said they were going to sell my advertising time if I had gotten 75% of the country, Tribune. And I called them back about, and I said, look, I didn't get 75% of the country. I got 85% of the country or got 85 of the country or 90 of the country yeah they said well we changed our mind we're not going to sell your time and i went oh and because they were going to give me an advance of four hundred thousand dollars right so i could go into production on my show oh so you were fucked totally after a year of my life sitting

there and the thing that really happened was about about a week or two before they told me they weren't going to give me this 400 grand. Yeah. My mother was doing my paperwork and I would go and look at the clearance list. And if I sold a station, she would send them a one page contract and then put the clear put them on the clearance list. And I knew if that market had been cleared, I didn't need to call that market, call the other market. So I noticed that she had not put down Wilkes-Barre or maybe it was Harrisburg. I can't remember. And I said, mom, why did you not put that station? I got that station. She's in Pennsylvania. Yeah. So I got it cleared. Right. And she goes, no, I don't have the paperwork. I'm going, mom, you got to be a lot more organized here. These are hard clearances to get. You're messing it up. You got to be clear. She goes, honey, I didn't get the paperwork i'm going mom you got to be a lot more organized here these are hard clearances to get you're messing it up you got to be clear she goes honey i didn't get the paperwork it didn't

happen they didn't so i called the guy back i called the guy up i said bob it looks as if my executive assistant misplaced your paperwork so we're just gonna send my mommy exactly so so he goes nope nope he said uh no it's not gonna, what? Now, that's very rare, Mark. Right. TV stations, they don't go back on their word like that. Yeah. He says, some guys in Paramount were here, and they told me that you were calling me from your dining room table, and that that show wasn't going to be there.

And if it was there, it wasn't going to last any more than three weeks. What? And so I gave them your time period, and they're going to have Saturday night at 11. Who was that? It was a show that Paramount was selling. I don't remember. So that's how competition works in the syndicated market. That's exactly right.

It's just like someone's got another show that no one's ever heard of. And they just jammed. And they just undermined me. And so the Paramount. So I said, how many guys? So I said, Bob, how many guys did Paramount send? And they said three. And I said, did they have on nice suits?

He goes, yeah. I go, yeah, those Paramount guys get paid a lot of money. I said, so listen up, Bob, they're right. I am calling you from my dining room table and I am in my underwear. But here's the difference. I want you to understand something. The show is going to be there. And because of what the boys at paramount told you tell the boys at paramount studios i am never going to cancel that show and that show is going to be on until the end of time because i will never let the boys from paramount walk into any television station in america again and cast doubt on what i can and what I will or will not do.

Yeah. So you will never, ever, ever renege on a deal with me. Right. So just let the boys at Paramount know this conversation is taking place. He goes, I will. So I put the show on. So then I hang up the phone. This is entertainers with Byron Allen.

Yeah. Entertainers with Byron Allen. And I hang up the phone. A week or two later, Tribune says, I'm not sending you the 400 grand and I thought about that conversation I had

about the boys at Paramount saying that I wasn't going to get on the air and I said, I'm going forward and I didn't have the money to go forward and so I had to figure out

how to go into production on the show. So there were days I didn't eat. There were days they turned my phone off. It was pretty low-fi though, wasn't it? Yeah, but I i mean i didn't have two nickels to go and do the show i had to go pay the cameraman i had to pay the editor but literally it must it looked like there was one cameraman

but that's all i could afford you think i could afford two cameramen when i was over budget with one cameraman right so then i go ahead pay the sound guy you want sound okay i guess i gotta pay this guy i had to pay the satellite guy i had want sound? Okay, I guess I got to pay this guy. I had to pay the satellite guy. And I had to pay the... It was insane. So what I did was I got the show up and running. And I'll never forget, I didn't pay my mortgage.

I was calling people from pay phones. And I timed it where I wouldn't pay my mortgage. And the lady at the bank, I'll never forget, she was so sweet. She goes, you keep coming on my desk. She goes, what's going on? And I always believe it's better to just be honest and tell it all and tell it early yeah and i said well i said that uh i'm financing a show and uh things are tight and she goes okay and she goes that's why you keep paying me every 89 days i say yeah because i'm floating my mortgage and she got goes, I have to pay my cameraman.

I have to buy tape and I have to get the show up on, get it to the TV stations. She goes, okay, I understand. She goes, listen. She goes, whatever you do, just pay on the 89th day. Because if it goes to day 90, it's going to go to the lady who sits next to me and you don't want to talk to Josephine. I say, okay, I don't want to meet her. So I would put it on my calendar and I run to the bank and I pay my mortgage right there on that 89th day

and I had to learn how to sell my advertising time and I went and I started selling my ad time to 1-800 spray on hair 1-800 abs this show that you're doing right now our first advertisers was Adam and Eve sex toys there it is whoever is willing to advertise I would have taken

their money I probably did take their money so I took I could. And then finally I sat down with all the heads of the movie studios and I said, look, I'm having your movie stars on. Right. And I'm showing your clips, your trailers. I'm a, basically I'm a one hour commercial saying, watch the, go see these movies. And I said, you guys are spending 200 million to 600 million a year each. Give me some money. I said, will you please support me so I can be there to support you? And I signed up all of the movie studios. And I thought, this is perfect.

I signed up the movie studios and I said, this is how you do business. It's not about me, it's about them. That's right, and that's how you had all those clips and it was mostly about the thing they were pushing. That's right. Right, I remember. And that's why the movie studios supported me and then once i solidified the

movie industry i went on the road like a comic yeah and i went and sat down with all the soft drink companies and i solidified the soft drink industry then i went and did automotive and then i went and did packaged goods and then i went and did pharmaceuticals and i went industry by industry corporation by corporation, chief marketing officer by chief marketing officer, board of directors. With that show.

With that show. And I introduced myself for about a 10-year period to every advertiser in America that had a budget greater than $2. And I just sat with them. And you built those relationships with that show

and now you use them for all your shows. And then all of a sudden I said, if I can do one show, and I have all these relationships with every television station in the country, and I have all these relationships with every advertiser in the country, I can put on another show. And I kept dialing and putting shows. What was the next show? And the next show, I did The American Athlete.

How long was that Byron Allen with the entertainers on? Like I told Bob, I said, tell the boys. It went on for a long time. It's still on the air 25 years later. I told Bob, you tell the boys at Paramount. You're still doing it? Because I told Bob, you tell the boys at Paramount, I'm never canceling this show. Because what he said to him, no television station will ever be able to say, well, somebody walked in from this studio and said this.

Now what they say. That's the only reason you do it? That's it. And what they say, you know what the TV stations say now to the studios? What? Byron Allen never cancels a show. That was one of the greatest. I'm going to put this in my book one day because it was one of the.

You haven't written a book yet? I haven't written a book yet, but I'm going to put it in my book one day. So I just kept putting one show on after the next. And next thing I know, I looked up 43 television shows and over 5,000 hours of content and one of the largest privately held television libraries in the world. You? Yeah. I never stopped selling to these television stations.

And I said, I'll fill that time period. I'll fill this time period. And I kept producing and I produced, I took my grandfather and my father's automotive roots. And I said, I'm going to produce television the way they make cars. I'm going to create a factory. Instead of a car factory, it's a content factory. And we're going to do it where we control the cost and we control the quality. So we're going to do it in a way where we control.

We own the equipment. You own the cameras. You own the editing. So you control to do it in a way where we control we own the equipment you own the cameras you own the editing so you control cost and you have a staff and the staff this week can work on this show this next week they can work on that show and you rotate them the way you take a car on a factory floor i remember when i did comics unleashed it was like in a warehouse or something that's exactly right you know what it was in a warehouse you got it buddy when you did comics unleashed i remember that you were great so comics unleash let's i mean okay so this is i signed the second show no it wasn't the second show but i signed so comics unleash how the comics unleash become about i noticed that you know when we would do all the comedians yeah we would all go

eat it you know it you know it you know canner's deli or something but that was another one of those shows where i'm watching, I'm like, Byron Allen's still on TV in the middle of the night. Why do I keep seeing Byron Allen in the middle of the night? That was all they would give me. You take crumbs and you make a gourmet meal. That's what you do. So you're talking at Cantor's?

Yeah, so we go. And I noticed that all of the comedians, everybody was much funnier sitting at canners or sitting in a restaurant than at the Comedy Store or the Improv because all the comedians want to really show the other comedians. I'm witty. I'm sharp. Right.

And I said, you know what? This is a television show. I'm going to get comedians together and I'm going to make sure that they just have a wonderful environment where we can be funny. And at that time, we were having a tough time. Comedians were having a tough time getting on late night television. Oh, right. When was it?

80s, 90s? 90s. And we weren't getting on, late 90s, right? We weren't getting on as much as Johnny Carson used to put us on. Sure, sure. So I said, you know what? I'm going to do a comedy talk show for just comedians. And so that's what we did.

And so we put that show on. It was so funny because to do your show, because I've done all those shows, right? But with your show, there's like we did. And so we put that show on. It was so funny because like to do your show, cause I've done all those shows. Right. But with your show, there's like four comics. Right. And you know,

the segment producer would just, you know, ask you which bits you want to do. And literally your, your, your questions were just short of like, what's that bit you do about, uh,

that's it. I'm throwing you alley-oops. I'm like, Mark slam dunk. Yeah. I heard you went to the airport yesterday that's exactly I mean my transitions were just as smooth as ice do the joke you said you were gonna do that basically Mark give us a routine that's basically yeah yeah but you know

what I sign all the checks right I'm signing checks and one day I'm signing checks and one of the checks was for air yeah and I called up Barry Ilovich, my president of production, and I said, what's this check I'm signing for air? Yeah. And he goes, and it was like 17,000 bucks. Wow, what is it?

And he goes, well, after seven o'clock, they charge you for air. What? Yeah. What are you talking about? That's exactly what I said to him. We were at a studio.

We were at like a sunset in one of the studios. I go, Barry, let me just make sure i'm i understand so this check that i'm about to sign for 17 grand yeah was for air because we don't we have to pay for air after seven o'clock yeah he goes yeah and i go okay so i signed the check yeah i go online yeah and i look for a warehouse that was where i was that's where you were it was

a real warehouse it was a real warehouse. It was a real warehouse. I find a warehouse for like 80,000 square feet. I couldn't believe it. It was like, where are we going to shoot this? It's a fucking warehouse. And a warehouse. And I said, and I got the warehouse. I went and rented the warehouse. And I said, they don't charge us for air.

And he goes, well, we don't have dressing rooms. So we'd have dressing rooms. I said, okay, no problem. I go online. I go to Mike's RV. And I look at the stats, right? And I said, I said, I want to get these, I want to get, is this, this RV, does it look just like this? He goes, yeah.

The guy says it looks like this. And so I said, okay, I need to get 18 of them. So the guy. You rented them, you bought them. Bought them. So I bought them. So the guy hangs up on me right so i call back and i go no no no no no and and i the guy's name is carlos right and i'm like carlos no no no

i said carlos i need 18 of those like right away he hangs up like a second time so i call back i go carlos do not hang up the phone i said i i have a show and I need dressing rooms and right now I'm paying $2,000 a week for 18 trailers. I'm paying like $36,000 a week for these 18 trailers to be out there. But I said,

I need these trailers. And I said, I need them immediately. And sure enough, I think he still sells them another year like four years later. Yeah.

And he says, this's the biggest order. You made his life. I made his life. He goes, it's the biggest order in the history of Mike's art. I go, buddy, I just need to trade this. So that's how we do it. We said, look, let's be efficient in how we make the content. You still shooting that thing?

Yes, yes, yes. We are still shooting. Unleashed? Comics Unleashed. We have some that are still in the can. They have to be edited. It's going to be, it's still in production. It in production it is right so we're gonna go back and shoot something you got this new one the one that oh yeah we have the new one funny you should ask

funny you should ask is great funny you should ask is a it's you know i i really learned that from being a comedy writer there was that rule for every question there's a funny answer and also you learn but like these guys the the you know your mentor in the syndicated world the messini guy and the stuff you learn from schlatter oh yeah and the you know in terms of you know what it takes to actually put on television because you run a pretty lean operation right very lean and you know you have to be very efficient and how many properties do you own when syndicated tv properties uh i have a little over 43 shows, about 43 shows on broadcast television. There are a number of shows people don't even know they're mine, like Beautiful Homes in Great Estates and Pets.TV and on and on and on.

So I just really immerse myself into producing content and doing it like a factory. As a matter of fact, I even did a day crew and a night crew for editing. factory as i as a matter of fact i even did a day crew and a night crew for editing because when my i remember being a kid and i used to my mom and i we had one car and my dad and we used to take my dad to the ford factory at night because my mom would use the car during the day and my dad would get a ride home from somebody right and i remember thinking well yeah if these edit bays are sitting here let's have a day crew work from nine to six and a night crew work from 7 until 8 in the morning. But what about now? What is your quality control?

I mean, what are you trying to do? Is it just a money? Emmy award winning producers. You know, we've been nominated for Emmys. We've won an Emmy. You can't get those time periods and keep those time periods unless the quality is there. The ratings are there. So we've been really diligent about that so and we're

very proud of that and after getting that much content I was reading the New York Times and I read where they were Verizon was gonna spend about 23 billion dollars to get fiber to the home and they said we're gonna offer 150 HD channels so I called Verizon I said I understand you're gonna offer 150 HD channels they said yes I'd like to offer you 10 of them. And they said, well, how many do you have now? I said, zero. I said, I know you're thinking I'm cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs, but I don't, you know, they said, well, I said, but before you call security, let me explain what I'm thinking. And they said, what are you thinking? I said, well, you know, I'm originally born in Detroit,

Michigan. And I said, my dad and my grandfather, they tried to put 36 hours in a 24 hour day. And I never saw so much waste until I got into TV. I would go out on the road and I would do real people. And I'm not saying this about all the crews, but some of the crews were trying to figure out how to, how to, you know, shoot for two hours and get paid for 12. Sure. Right. And I said, I want to reverse that. I said, so what I want to do is I want to bring that Henry Ford mentality to television and be extremely efficient. So I said, when we send a crew, we send camera crews to Pebble Beach to shoot the car show Concourse d'Elegance for our 24-hour car network, Cars.TV, I don't want them to just shoot the content for Cars.TV. I don't want them to just shoot the content for cars.tv. Shoot the chefs in Pebble Beach for our cooking channel, recipe.tv.

And shoot the resorts up there for our travel channel, mydestination.tv. And shoot what's going on in the pet community up there for our pet channel, pets.tv. And shoot all the movie stars up there for our entertainment channel, es.tv. And they said, you know what? And for my show, Entertainers with Byron Allen, which is on every week. It's on every week. And they said, you know what? We've heard a lot of pitches. We've heard a lot of pitches, but we've never heard one like that.

They said that we really, they said, quote, we think that's brilliant. They said, we're not going to give you 10 networks. We're going to give you six. And we made history. With the stroke of a pen, we launched 24-hour hd networks on verizon files went back did a seventh network because we ended up becoming the largest and where can you watch them they're on at&t they're on dish they're on verizon files yeah right so then we launched our seventh network justice central yeah 24-hour court channel you know court shows and people

believe there's justice in the world. That's exactly right. And then a buddy of mine came to me, and he, well, he was running a company that satellited our networks. He said, can we have dinner? And I said, sure. And we went to dinner, and he said, you should buy the Weather Channel. And I said, he goes, and I know, he goes, I know you're not thinking about the weather

because you're in LA, and it's always 80 degrees and sunny. He goes, and I know he goes, I know you're not thinking about the weather because you're in L.A. and it's always 80 degrees and sunny. Right. He goes, but the way you think and the way you operate and how efficient you are. He goes, you are the best person to buy the Weather Channel and you aren't thinking about the Weather Channel because you're here. He goes, but I ran the Weather Channel before this job. He goes, I was I think he was the chief operating officer. He said, it's a phenomenal business. It prints money and the

people who own it are ready to go. It's owned by Bain and Blackstone and Bain and Blackstone combined. And also, uh, Comcast combined, they manage over $500 billion and they're ready to go and you should buy it. And I said, okay. And I happened to know to know uh one of the main people at blackstone yeah and we got ourselves into the process and i said i'm interested in buying the weather channel yeah and uh we got it done and we bought it last year uh march of uh last year okay so you so this guy i'm sure this is a bigger conversation but what do you when you when okay i understand that you're doing all this different stuff but when someone what do you when when you, okay, I understand that you're doing all this different stuff. But when someone, what do you, when you buy the Weather Channel, what's your plan? What's your plan?

Keep telling people the weather. Well, I get that. And keep people safe. Okay. And keep people, that's, listen, it is such a, it's the number one weather news network in America with no close second. But do you do anything different though? Do you expand that business?

Yeah. I mean, we're going to expand it. We're going to do a little bit more around the world. Okay. We just announced we're going to do the Weather Channel in Espanol. Okay. Because I don't want language to be a barrier for getting the information you need to protect yourself and your loved ones and your property.

We've been doing a lot of good stuff with it. We're very excited about it. I mean, the Weather Channel is just, it's really something. I mean, when you have something like a hurricane come along, people don't go to their phone. I mean, the phone's great for checking your temperature. So you're sitting there, 14, 15 years old, writing jokes for Jimmy Walker. Yeah. Was this your dream to own the Weather Channel?

No, no, no. It just turned out to be a phenomenal, phenomenal business. Well, what is this court case? Ah, the court case. Great question. The court case. So here's how this came about. So I was very supportive of Senator Obama.

Yeah. And he goes on to become president. I remember. You remember that? So then, so President Obama. So his administration came to me and they said, listen, Comcast is trying to get bigger. They want to buy Time Warner Cable.

Right. And this company is trying to get bigger. They want to buy this. There's the Obama people. Yes. Yeah. You know, so they're people, right? So they come to me and they say we want to know are these good corporate citizens

and i said do you want the honest answer they asked you as a consultant in a way they're like byron ellen's been doing business with these people for 20 30 years and he's out there right right so and they said you know what's the story on yeah and i said do you want the honest answer do you want the hollywood answer they said we want the honest answer. And I said, the answer is not no, it's hell no. I don't think they're good corporate citizens. And they said, well, how do you arrive at that? I said, mathematically, I said, the MVPDs, they spend approximately 70 billion. What are those? I'm sorry.

Most valuable. Yeah, right. It's the satellite companies, the cable companies, and the telephone companies. Okay. So let's think cable in this particular case. They spend approximately 70 billion a year licensing cable networks to be on their platform. 70 billion dollars a year. networks to be on their platform, $70 billion a year. And not one penny of that is going to African-American owned media. And a lot of that money is coming out of these communities. I said,

you have Hispanic, you know, Spanish language networks and the people who own them can't even speak Spanish. So maybe there's a concept where spanish language networks could perhaps be owned by people who actually are spanish and they're hispanic and they actually speak spanish right uh you have networks where maybe we should have a scenario where people of the gay community should own the networks that depict them but you don't have a scenario with the ownership of those networks not to be confused with putting african-american faces on the on the on the screen but who owns it because the ownership means you actually have a seat at the table and you're actually able to control how you're produced and you're depicted

and it's truly more of a democracy because you have a voice and you're at the table so they're not even making those things available for that's? That's right. That's right. And so I had a lot of friends. I had gone to them to license Comcast. I had gone to Comcast to license a number of my networks to them. And it was always no, no, no, no, no, no. And I went to them for a good 10 years. But these were black shows? No, no.

Not even. So comedy.tv, our comedy network. Okay. Right? Pets.tv. You're just trying to get in business with Comcast. That's right. And own the network, own the content.

So I noticed that they weren't doing business with a number of folks who came to me, big, big stars, who came to me and said, I went there, I went there, I pitched. Some of the biggest stars, some of the most talented people on the planet. No, no, no, no, no. Now, the one that really upset me the most wasn't even a network that I had pitched. The one that upset me the most was a guy who was the number two executive at BET. BET, he went to them to do the Black College Sports Network in partnership with all of the black colleges, all of the historical black colleges and universities. And in that partnership, it would have made millions and millions, if not billions, for these historical black colleges and would have educated all of these

kids for free or definitely subsidize them in a significant way because they're, they're, they're running on fumes and they turned it down. And it wasn't even my network, Mark. But when I watched them turn that network down, the black college sports network in partnership with over 100 historical black colleges and universities, that upset me. And I just said, you know what? I'm calling them out on it. It's just wrong. And I'd had my experience. And my lawyer said, well, you know, I said, I don't like what I see what's going on with the Asian community and how they're being treated.

They don't own their networks. The gay community, the Hispanic community. So, well, you can't speak for them because you're not them. You only have standing as an African-American. So you can do you can sue on your point of view and your experience. So we file using the Civil Rights Act. And this is something really important for all of your listeners, because this is a game changer. I use the Civil Rights Act, and this is something really important for all of your listeners because this is a game changer. I use the Civil Rights Act of 1866.

The Civil Rights Act of 1866, section 1981, is the very first Civil Rights Act in the history of America. It started civil rights in America and has been on the books for 153 years. The slaves were freed in December of 1865. And they put this law on the books to make sure that there was an economic pathway for all Americans and that they knew there was going to be a challenge. And they said, we are to have fair contracting for all Americans in this act. And it's specifically written that way. Right.

So we use that Civil Rights Act and we sued Comcast for 20 billion dollars. And they we went to court and I could not believe the defense that they used. It was astounding to me. They use the Hurley case. And the Hurley case was a case where some parade organizers in Boston told a group of gay people who wanted to be in their parade. You cannot be in our parade because you're gay. And it went all the way to the Supreme Court and the parade organizers, their legal argument was that it infringes on our first amendment rights. It infringes on our freedom of expression. So there

was a serious miscarriage of justice where they, the parade organizers, were able to use the First Amendment to discriminate against gay people. And that was the decision of the Supreme Court. are saying to the judge, well, there's the precedent of the Hurley case, and we want to use the First Amendment and that precedent. And Judge Wu said, listen, the First Amendment does not give you a pathway to discriminate. It's wrong. And I could not believe the number one cable operator and the number, Comcast, and the number two cable operator, Charter, were trying to use the First Amendment as a pathway to discriminate. And I'm thinking to myself, you should not be trying to celebrate this decision, the Hurley decision.

You should be denouncing it and certainly not trying to supersize it as the number one, number two cable operator. We're trying to use it as a precedent by which you're going to shut Byron Allen down. Or all minorities. Yeah. All minorities. Right. So we ended up going to the Ninth Circuit.

And the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in our favor not once, but twice. And they said, no, the First Amendment does not give you a pathway to discriminate. So it should have been a done deal. Should have been a done deal. Should have been a done deal. But then they said, and also the other thing they wanted, this is the thing that was truly astounding. They attacked the Civil Rights, Comcast and Charter attacked the Civil Rights Act of 1866. And they said, we want to make it so that minorities in this country can't use that

Civil Rights Act. So you can't use that civil rights act so you can't use it so what they said is we want it to be a scenario that mark can't use this civil rights act unless mark can prove that we discriminated against him 100 because he is he's black And I've never been black before. I know, but that's exciting. That's great. It's exciting to the police come. Right.

So, so he's, he says, so, so now if, if it's 100%, you can never prove it because they can actually say to you, Hey, it's 99% because you're, you're black, but it's 1% because you have tennis shoes. So you can't use the law. Right. you're black, but it's 1% because you have tennis shoes. So you can't use the law. Right. That's the but for standard. I get it. So they're arguing to use the but for standard.

And the Supreme Court said, we're not going to listen to Byron's case, but we are going to use this opportunity to look at the Civil Rights Act of 1866. So what people think, they're listening to my case. It's because of my case, the Supreme Court used this as an opportunity to look at the Civil Rights Act of 1866. So what does that mean though for the case? Well, here's what's, it's a bigger problem than that, because here's what will happen. They went, Comcast, can you believe this, went and solicited Donald Trump's Department of Justice and got an amicus brief to support their position that the Civil Rights Act should be eviscerated, rolled back, dismantled to 1865. So this is a bigger problem, because if you make that Civil Rights Act at a standard where it can't be used,

you will have basically flushed over 100 million minorities in this country down the drain because now you don't have any legal protection. And what I've said to David Cohen and Brian Roberts of Comcast, please rescind your petition. We don't want to go to the Supreme Court on November 13th, 2019 and have it risk the original Civil Rights Act of 1866, Section 1981 in a Donald Trump era and a Donald Trump Supreme Court with a Donald

Trump DOJ amicus brief against us. We don't want to see this happen. So it's not a good thing. And so we've been saying to Comcast, hey, you guys have television stations, you service the community, you have cable systems that service the community, but this is not servicing America when you are challenging a Civil Rights Act to the point where it's so narrow folks can't use it. So what's going to happen? Hopefully they will rescind it. And if they don't rescind it, then we're going to show up on November 13th and fight. I've invested millions of dollars and I will continue to invest millions of dollars to fight for civil rights for all Americans.

And to answer your question, my lawyers, and I have amazing lawyers, my lawyer, Dean Chemerinsky of Berkeley is the foremost scholar on this. He says it doesn't, you know, whatever they decide, the Supreme Court, you have enough, Byron, to go forward. You meet the but-for standard

and you meet, obviously, the motivating factor. And he filed me at a but four, at the higher standard. So I'm not worried about my case. This is what I'm worried about. I don't want this statute to be eviscerated so that over 100 million minorities today cannot use it and the millions and millions of minorities not yet born cannot use it. Why wouldn't Comcast and Charter just keep going to eviscerate it? If they got the amicus brief, you're just going to ask them politely to stop?

No, I think it's not just me. You think it was a threat? No, no, it's not just me. Others. I mean, so the Los Angeles Urban League, Michael Lawson wrote a very strong letter, and he said, listen, if you don't reverse this, we're going to boycott you. We're going to go after your advertisers. We're going to go after your subscribers.

We're going to go after your investors. We're going to go after your subscribers. We're going to go after your investors. We're going to go after your licenses. You know, you can't, you know, put in jeopardy the civil rights of over 100 million people. This is now the point where everybody has to lean in and protect their civil rights. Was it the reason they were doing it to, you know, to threaten? I think the reason that the reason they were doing it was to take away anything that helped me move along and the supreme court said we're not listening to the case the supreme court said we agree with the nicer but was that a backfiring to you did this backfire in your face in that way no it didn't backfire in my face i mean this i didn't file the petition to go to the

supreme court they did they did and i didn't go to don to Donald Trump to get a support to go against the civil rights. Right. But I guess I'm just saying, because you, I mean, theoretically, you know, the two courts that honored your success and the win was, should have been enough. But so as corporate entities with a tremendous amount of power. And money. Yeah. They're like, well, fuck it.

We'll teach them all a lesson. That's exactly right. And that's wrong because at the same time you're teaching these folks a lesson, you're making billions and billions of dollars off of them. Off of them, yeah. And that's fine. You just need to tell these people, hey, thanks a lot for paying me $2,500 a year on your cable bill and broadband. But by the way, your civil rights are going to get blown out here in the Supreme Court. Forever.

Forever. Forever. And for your kids and your grandkids. out here in the Supreme Court. Forever. I mean, and for your kids and your grandkids. And so this is one of those where it's like,

hey, people, you need to wake up and you need to say, respectfully, can you do me a solid here, Comcast, with your friend Donald Trump writing you an amicus brief?

Can you pull out? We don't need you in the Supreme Court at this time, in this era, talking in a Donald Trump era, talking about civil rights and possibly taking

it back to 1865 which they would like to do which is what they would love to do and uh it was astounding it was astounding that they would go after this civil rights statute it's like come on Comcast you don't need to do that you don't need to go after these aren't but as you said at the beginning you know of this this conversation about this topic, are they honest, are they decent corporate citizens? That's the question I was asked. And I said, I will do something about it. They said, most people are afraid to do something

because they're afraid of retaliation. They won't speak up. I said, I'll speak up. I'm a comedian. And this is what you're up against now. This is what we're up against now. Now it's we. It's we.

It's we because at the end of the day, my case is fine. What's not fine. And I'm part of that over 100 million minorities who are now at risk of losing this very important civil rights statute. And the lawyer for for Comcast actually said in an interview, oh, it's a technicality is just a yawn. actually said in an interview, oh, it's a technicality is just a yawn. And it's so disingenuous and so disrespectful to think that having your civil rights reviewed in this. Would this have happened if you didn't have this case, though? No, it would not have happened. So do you feel bad about what's.

No, I didn't do this. I know you didn't do it. I didn't do this. I didn't go to the Supreme Court and I didn't. I didn't take it. And I didn't ask Donald Trump. I get it, hey, Donald Trump, put on my jersey. And by the way, I mean, let's be clear. If Donald Trump is lining up with you, you might want to put it in reverse.

Sure. Okay. On civil rights. I'm with you. I'm just like, I'm trying to personalize it. Like if I was in your shoes fighting for what was right, and then they turn around and they bring it to the Supreme Court. And the Supreme Court's like, we're not going to deal with that case. But we're going to just reassess the Civil Rights Act of 1866, the very first one. If I were you, I'd be like, oh, fuck.

What do you got to do that for? And look, I'm into this thing for millions, millions. And I will continue to invest millions to get this right. And I will never let up. And I look look at this point the power of the people the power of the people can lean in and tell people how they feel and that's what american people have to say to comcast and and and say look you know what let's not do this night absolutely and look where you are you started with 14 years old writing for Jimmy Walker, and now you're fighting the fight to save civil rights for the entire country.

That's right. All right. There it is. There you are. With the Supreme Court. With the Supreme Court. And then what? What are we looking at?

We're looking at president in 2024. What are we looking at? You're going to be president? You're running? Okay. That's fine. If you want to run, go for it.

You should do it. Get in now. And we're 30? I don't know. Get in now. You know, we'll have some fun. You know, better yet, maybe start opening

for bands again. That's what I want. I want to go back on the road. I want to eat at all these amazing truck stops. There you go. And I want to get back on my Greyhound bus.

With Smokey Robinson. You probably could get out. He's still out there. I love Smokey. I love all the pointers. I love, love, you know, Julie Andrews. Come on. I'm on tour.

Dolly Parton. The best. I think she's in development over at Netflix. That'd be interesting. Yeah. But you still interview these people. You still talk to everybody. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

It's quite a journey, Byron. Thank you for talking to me. It's great hanging out with you. You're the best. And congratulations on all your success. I appreciate that. You too. So what do you think of that?

That's Byron Allen, man. Got a lot going on. The Weather Channel. Yep. A lot of TV projects. And his company has just launched this new app, the Local Now app, which is a mobile app. It's got a streaming network with lifestyle news,

weather, traffic, entertainment. He's got his fingers in everything, that guy, and he's still running Comics Unleashed. I will talk to you later from the garage and no music today because I'm not home. Boomer lives! You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything.

So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls. Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.es with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.