WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1073 - Louis Katz

Episode Date: November 21, 2019

Comic Louis Katz was working with Marc just before the launch of WTF. In the ten years since, Louis and Marc have taken paths that are both similar and completely different. They share their experiences on the road and get into the nuts and bolts of comedy club standup, then and now, as well as the persistent East Coast-West Coast split between comedy sensibilities. Louis also talks about what it was like to have a long distance relationship when starting out in comedy and what he’s only learning about himself now after spending the past two decades working in the field. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace and SimpliSafe.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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T's and C's apply. Lock the gates! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuckingistas? What's happening? I am Marc Maron.

This is my podcast. I'm broadcasting from a hotel room, looking out over the rooftops of Gijon. Gijon, Spain. España. Yeah? Is that how you say it? I'm in Spain. Gijon.

G-I-J-O-N. Gijon. Is that right? Gijon. Feels right to me. I just learned that today after saying Gijon for a while. And Gijon or Gijon. Gijon.

Gijon. That's where I was paralyzed by some wild boar meatballs. Paralyzed, incapacitated by some wild boar meatballs into a nap that was unproductive. Though I did take the nap at the time that people here in Spain seem to take naps at around 4 o'clock. Maybe I didn't. Maybe it was a little early. Maybe if I'd waited and followed the national rules of nappage, I would not feel as bad as I do now. It's one of those naps where you take it and you're much worse off for the rest of the day for taking the nap.

It was a half hour. I didn't seem to have a choice. Something happened. We was a half hour. I didn't seem to have a choice. Something happened. We had a nice lunch. I had some wild boar meatballs, some octopus, and then there was a sea bass and razor clams. Look, man, I had to look it up. It took me a while to research it, but they were razor clams. And I don't know if you've ever had razor clams, but they were probably one of the best things that happened the entire time I've been away was these two razor clams that were sitting among two other ones, four total, underneath a piece of finely pan-done sea bass. And we looked at the razor clams and we were like, is that a vegetable or is that an animal? And I tasted it and I'm like, nope, that's a clam.

And it's one of the best clams I've ever eaten. So that happened. And that was pre-nap. Now everything's not looking as good. Louis Katz, the comedian, is on my show today. Louis Katz and I go back. He opened for me many years ago. He's always been around, Louis.

I mean, he's much younger than me, but he's a comic. He's been at it for a while. He opens for Dave david tell quite often he's a headliner in his own right and always a great joke writer and funny guy nice guy he's got a record out an album a comedy album cats kills cats kills it's available wherever you get your music or comedy albums he also co-hosts the travel podcast road heads which which you can get wherever you listen to podcasts but he opened for me years ago in san francisco always liked the guy always meant to have him on never made it happen until now so here we are folks i have to address a couple of things it's been a lovely vacation to the point where i don't want to come back but we we did shift in the vacation, obviously, since I talked to you last

on Monday, where I was having an amazing time in Ireland, feeling connected to the roots and the rocks and the weather and the turbulent gray and the cliffs and the sea, some of the local customs, gray and the cliffs and the sea, some of the local customs, the people, the fish, everything about it. I did not listen to any Irish music and I have to say nothing against it, but I don't know what that would have done for my experience. I have a feeling it would not have put it over the edge in a good way. Not that I don't have anything against Irish music. I like it, but I have a more, my sensibility about Ireland, if it was sort of maybe, you know, some Pogues music, some slower Pogues music where it was depressing and you didn't know if the singer was going to die in the middle of the song, that would have been good. But just the sort of upbeat jigging, kind of like that Irish zip,

I didn't miss it. So no one's asked me did i go see some some people said you should go see some i did not because i don't drink because i think quite honestly that music probably better after a few beers because you kind of need the lift me i don't drink much i'm already a little jacked it would have caused me some anxiety and maybe a little bit of panic. And I probably would have felt judged. Why are you not drinking? Get on board. I think that's how a lot of alcoholics slip is pressure from Irish musicians.

It seems sort of specific, but I don't know. I've run into that a couple of times where people, well, the Irish speak the language. But anyways, I'll get around to it. Understanding your triggers around relapsing. It's important, alcoholics. It's important. Remember, your disease, as they say, is always looking for a way to take you down from the inside.

He's like an assassin. The disease of alcoholism is your inner assassin looking for an angle when you got your guard down. And sometimes that's as easy as an Irishman going, do you want a Guinness? Yes. How easy was that to provoke that assassin? Doesn't that Guinness look good?

It does. She liked the Guinness. good? It does. She's like, Guinness, yes, done, over. You move to Ireland, you don't know how to make a living. Soon you're out in front of the pub. The musicians know you. That's the American that was here years ago. It's weird. He looks like one of us now. Not really. He just looks like he's dirty and lives outside and uh sure here's here's a a euro have a euro not a gyro a euro not a euro a euro one's a sandwich greek i think the other money okay so the last time i talked to you i I was in Ireland and we were in Dublin. I got a little pushback on my romanticization of burning peat bricks, bog bricks, stuff

carved out of the earth, put into brick form so you could use it to warm yourself. Apparently not great for the environment. A couple of people, don't get mad at them. You know, look, I had a nice time, I'm not bringing any home with me, I don't even have a fireplace, I actually, I do have a fireplace in my new house, it's a gas fireplace, fake fire, fake logs, no peat, could burn peat if I wanted to, I don't know where I could get it, imagine I could get it, point being, again, not great for the environment because apparently they've mined it to the degree where they've pulled the lid off of the bogs

and released the inner demon of CO2 that emits from decomposing organic matter into the atmosphere. And it is one of the, I wouldn't say it's a primary cause, but it doesn't help things. So we got to keep the peat in place, keep the bogs covered with all their demons.

Also, on a more mythological level, that does say something about the bogs. There is a sort of a presence in there that when you release it, could end the world. Not unlike oil. It's the revenge of the dinosaurs. You think they went extinct? Nope. Something killed them. And think they went extinct? Nope. Something killed them, and now they're going to kill us because we need them to. That's the paradigm we're involved with.

The revenge of the fucking dinosaurs. How do you push back on that? Because there's a corporate spigot that has been pimped out by the ghost of fucking dinosaurs. Anyway, we've really gotten off the beaten track. I've had weird dreams with a couple of messages from the dreams since I've been here. The first message just came to me in a line that had was part of a bigger thing but the line that was delivered upon waking was that the audience will end before the symphony there you go do what you want with it but it seems to be true the audience is definitely ending before the symphony. Now, the problem was we were having a nice time in Ireland

and it was very, very intimate one-on-one time, no responsibilities, rented house. Then we get here and we wake up to a city where they don't speak our language. That's not their fault. We're the ones at fault. There's no one at fault. We just don't speak our language. That's not their fault. We're the ones at fault. There's no one at fault. We just don't speak the language.

And now we have responsibilities. We have to be at a premiere of the movie, Sword of Trust, for an audience that doesn't really speak English. That sounds like, well, that should be interesting to watch. I guess if you enjoy failure. Okay? Now, it was no one's fault, but I've seen this movie probably a dozen times

with laughing audiences that get all the jokes, and now it's subtitled, and the rhythms are different here. So what gets laughs are the broadest bits of business, and a few of the jokes. It was hard. It was interesting. It was good.

They seemed to enjoy it. It was packed, too. Both audiences that we played to was hard. It was interesting. It was good. They seemed to enjoy it. It was packed, too. Both audiences that we played to was packed. We did a Q&A with a translator, which is interesting. I'm finding that I'm not entirely comfortable not knowing what's being said or how to say anything. Does that sound like an uncomfortable situation for everybody? I literally don't know any spanish even though i grew up in new mexico so i just don't and i know it's i don't expect people to know

english i understand the standoff but that's ultimately what happens these weird polite awkward just standing there with people looking at them and and realizing we can't talk to each other we probably have a lot to say to each other, but nothing's going to happen here. There's no way. Nothing's going to happen. Maybe basic niceties, you know, and sort of a scramble to find a word of each other's language

and then go, oh, yeah, and that's it. It's difficult, but it's a lovely city, and we walked around it it's very pretty and another thing i learned about traveling either internationally or or not internationally is that if you're not gonna invest in the history of the place you're really left with things like uh well that's pretty oh this this is old oh, this is really old. There's only part of it here. There's just a piece of it.

This must be very old. Or that's cool. I can't believe that that's that old. It's pretty. That's what you're left with if you don't want to learn. Hey, that's pretty. Hey, that's old. Hey, that's very old.

Wow, that's cool. That's been there that long or or um i can't read this it's not in english so that part of the trip has been great a lot of pretty stuff here our movie went over very well as well as it could it was hard to watch with an audience that you know you didn't i wasn't getting enough laughs is what i think is what i'm getting at my character was not getting enough laughs because what I think is what I'm getting at. My character was not getting enough laughs because he's of a certain tone and it's a certain physicality. Some of the broader characters, big laughs. I got a couple of big laughs, but John Bass was definitely getting a

majority of the laughs during the European showing, the Spanish showing. I'm glad he did. He wasn't here to experience that. But I'll go ahead and say it publicly. I didn't get as many laughs as I should have. But I'll let John have it. Bigamy, right? The audience will end before the symphony. Make sure you write that down.

Louis Katz, as I mentioned earlier, is a good guy and a funny guy great joke writer opened for me many years ago not many i'm not saying he's like it's not like the you know back in the day kind of shit but when he was a younger comic now he's been at it for a while uh does a lot of headlining on his own uh his most recent comedy album cats kills is available wherever you get music or comedy records he's got a podcast called The Roadheads. If you want to listen to that, it's a travel podcast. And this is me talking to Louis Cat. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats.

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i don't know i just got this i got an iphone 10 because i have no patience and i got it at the last like literally a week before the 11s came out. And I don't like it. Yeah, I'm considering going back to Android, personally. Really? Yeah, man. I just can't deal with it sometimes. I just don't.

I don't like the way they're trying to pretend like it's not a hard drive. I know it's a hard drive. Just let me drag and drop shit. I shouldn't have to go through iTunes to drag everything onto everything. They want me to pay for the cloud and be cloud dependent. And I'm like, fuck that. I don't want to be. So you're against cloud dependency.

Yeah. Is this sort of your cause? I mean, there's a lot of things I'm angry about and love to complain about. This is probably the lowest one. But if you just want to talk phones, that's my opinion on it. Well, I am a little nervous about the cloud, personally. I'm not sure why I'm nervous about it. But all of a sudden, it became this thing where, I remember a few years ago where it just became, you know, you want to put all your shit on the cloud. I'm like, I don't even look at all my shit on my computer.

Like, it's so rare that I need anything from the past in a way it's weird because like you carry around this shit if you keep just switching over hard drives you've got shit on your computer from like 20 years ago yeah i do yeah yeah and i don't i don't even know what's in there and every once in a while like i'm gonna go through it and then you start to you go into the file like oh fuck i'm not going through this and then you feel weird throwing it away. You get nostalgic over garbage. Yeah, exactly. I mean, as far as hoarding stuff, at least you're hoarding small hard drives and computers

instead of files and cabinets of shit. I guess so. Yeah, it's true. But why can't I apply that same idea to things in your house where it's sort of like, if you haven't looked at it for a year, do you really need it? Photos are always good. Well, not photos, you know, like just whatever.

You know, like things that you keep, keepsakes, things that you, like books, things you think are important. I mean, yeah, I guess so. I don't think that not looked at it for a year rule works for a lot. I think with clothes that's good. Yeah. Because if you're not really wearing the clothes, then like get rid of it. Do you need some clothes?

How big are you? If you got some, then I'll take them. Yeah, I think that's probably true. So now, I'm trying to think when we met, did you feature for me?

Yeah, I must have opened for you back. In San Francisco? Yeah, in the Bay. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

in San Francisco at the Punchline. Yeah. Yeah, a long, I mean, I'm trying to remember. I can't remember when, but I know I opened for you there for sure. It's over 10 years ago, I would think.

Way over 10 years ago. Right? It's more like 15 to, yeah, 15, at least 15 years ago, if not more. No kidding. Yeah. So that's, you've been around, how long have you been doing it? I've been doing it 18 years, man. Wow.

Yeah. Now, like the, now, did you start in the Bay? I did start comedy in the Bay. So that, okay, so you were there, like I wasn't you start in the bay i did start comedy okay so you were there like i wasn't living there by the time i came back and i'd been there and you were part of the new crew of bay area people yeah there's a whole like new school of comics mosha yeah you uh-huh like who else uh guy branham jasper red ryan stout ch, Chris Tinkle, the Searoffs, Shane Williams. The Searoffs, what the fuck happened to that guy? Do you talk to him?

I don't talk to him too much. Moshe's in touch with him. Yeah? He's around. He's just around? Yeah, man. They're not married anymore, are they? No, that ended bad.

Because he meddled for me somewhere back in the day, like in 2006 or 2007. I think he featured for me at like Roosters. Yeah. It was a time where I was going through this fucking divorce or I was going through this breakup with the wife had left me and I was keeping this diary that was very sort of candid. Uh-huh.

I think I hung out at their hotel room or something and somehow or another, I left my diary. Oh no. With those two monsters and like like i you know like you know jacob is all right they're all right but they're comedians like and you know i'm the headliner i leave this fucking book of writing they're not gonna look at it it was fucking that makes me so nervous dude this shit you were they said they said that they didn't go through but how could you not it was, like, it was so candid about Viagra, about fucking, about my feelings for my ex.

Like, it was crazy. Well, the shit you were saying on stage publicly was already hardcore. So to think there was stuff you were filtering out. I mean, who knows what kind of shit was in there. It was just, I have those books, man. I mean, those are like, I haven't looked at those in a while. That would probably be interesting, I guess. That's right.

When I saw you last, you said you were listening to Final Engagement, which is like this weird, it's an id record. It's one of these records where I'm like, I know I did it, but I haven't listened to it in a while. Dude, it's awesome. It's a classic breakup album. There's all those music albums that are breakup albums, and I just went through a breakup, and I was listening to it,

and, man, it was hitting so hard and and the truth is though because that's only half of your breakup stuff because you had the whole hour that was scorching the earth right that was separate from it was like kind of the same stuff but not all of it yeah there was a lot of the same stuff in there but it's like i just called it scorching the earth but it never really came together as uh as a show that i could repeat you know like some of that stuff on there like it's so raw and angry and weird that like i don't know if i could make it an entertaining hour and a half for anybody now no not now but then it was awesome i mean like that year of you touring after that i because i was this is also when i moved to new york so i'm seeing you

you're doing these shows a lot of head in the hand on the stool. A lot of... And the crowd, there were not crowds there. And it was like really dark. In the basement of that theater, you saw me? I saw you at Caroline's with like 13 people. That's room seats, like 400. Yeah.

And I saw you at the Punchline. It was better than that because it's the Bay, but it was still like... And it was so dark that it wasn't... And then I saw you take all thatline. It was better than that because it's the Bay, but it was still like, and it was so dark that it wasn't. And then I saw you take all that, make a show of it, sell out the UCB, and I told my friend, I'm like, you got to go because there's no one else who is a motive like you on stage. Honestly, and this is going to sound like I'm kissing your ass,

but straight up, I think it's like Pryor and you are the only people that are that open and it's uncomfortable and great. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I told my friend, there's no, you got to see this. And he saw it and he was like, I hyped it up and it lived up to the hype, man. It was awesome. Oh, thank God.

Yeah. Oh, man. Now I feel bad because I feel like I've reeled it in a little. Oh, so you're healthier now and happy? Yeah, I feel terrible. Someone just fucking emailed me that. A woman emailed me about the podcast. She's like, I don't listen anymore because you seem to be condescending.

I'm like, oh, is that what that is? Maybe I just feel better. Maybe I'm not talking from a pit of sadness and unintentional vulnerability. I just like that you're condescending towards her comment of her being condescending. Well, yeah, fuck her. I mean, you don't have to say, I don't know what it is with these people that loop you into their passive aggression, like tweets or whatever. Like, I used to like Marc Maron.

It's like, you don't have to at me on that. No. You know what I mean? It's shitty. What does that mean? So you grew up here in Los Angeles? Yeah. In the valley?

No, I didn't live in the valley. I grew up in, I was in Silver Lake from when I was born until I was five. Your family lived in Silver Lake? Yeah, when I was in like the early 80s. It's so funny. As somebody who hasn't lived here my whole life, you just identify Silver Lake as like, it's just a bunch of hipper, younger parent people. Yeah, I don't think of like old timers.

Yeah. Living there, bringing up families. Even now, they live in Los Feliz now and they go out to places and they're just like the oldest people there because, you know. They were always here, huh? Yeah, they were always, they were,

I mean, my dad is, my parents are both from Southern California. My mom grew up in Claremont. My dad grew up in Fairfax. And so he always loved Griffith Park. He just wanted to live by Griffith Park. He it was he loves the park you know that's how he looked at it is he a show business guy no that's the that's a cool thing about um growing up here is I knew some people like a little bit in show business but my parents are both in not in show

business and that's always what I recommend people when they move to LA everyone moves to LA and they they go like oh man everyone here is so superficial mean, everyone that you meet that's also trying to make it in the entertainment business is superficial. Yeah, of course. Right. But you meet local people that are actually from here and we're real cool, you know? Sure. No, I agree with that.

I think that it's a stereotype almost. I mean, it's a big, weird, fucking sprawling shit show of a city. Yes. And to generalize it in any way just because you're in the entertainment industry yeah and desperate and looking for a little traction yeah it doesn't mean that you can just judge everyone who lives here yeah and yeah exactly what'd your what'd your old man do and uh my dad is like um uh like a real estate lawyer so he would do like um some low-income housing and then some like uh shopping centers And my mom worked for a local government always. So just regular working people in the LA area.

Yeah. And you have siblings? I have a sister, yeah. A younger sister. A younger sister? Yeah. What does she do? Is she in show business?

No, she's what I call Jewish welfare, managing a building that my parents own. How does she take that title? I don't know if I've said that to her, but now she'll hear it, I guess. Maybe. How old are you, though? I just turned 40. We have the same birthday.

I just turned 40. Oh, you're only 27? So you're a Libra, too? I feel there's a kindred spirit thing. So do you find that that, you know, like, does that, are you a Libra acting person? I feel there's a kindred spirit thing. So do you find that that you know like does that are you a Libra acting person? I don't know what that means. Me neither. I assume like I'm

indecisive. So I'm going and I can see two sides of things. Are you always looking for balance? You always feel imbalanced? I guess so. Yeah. I mean isn't that just life? Like you feel a lack and everyone feels it? I don't know man. Some people. No. It's not for everybody. Really?

Some people are satisfied? Well, some people are okay. They've got things in perspective. They've got God on their side. They're not afraid to die, and they just look at life each day as a gift. Not you? I mean, I'm going to say no to that. Were you brought up like a L.A. Jew?

Reformed Jew. I was bar mitzvahed. I went to Sunday school. I went to even confirmation class after that. But was there guitar playing during the services? Yes. In your temple? Yes, if that's where you draw the line, then yes. There certainly was. Sure is where I draw the line

between reform and conservative. Yeah, yeah, there was guitar playing. And then from conservative to orthodox, you draw the line, like do you wear a kippah all day? Yes. And then from orthodox to ultra-orthodox, you like, do you wear the costume and don't talk to other people outside of your peer group. And the sideburns. Man, dude, I've been living in

Brooklyn, and living that close to so many Hasidim kind of makes you a little bit anti-Semitic. And I feel bad about it, but it does. Hey, I used to cover this shit all the time. They're dirty, rude people. It's like, also, it feels like they have like well we have our own set of laws so fuck every other law of man and and yeah and common courtesy you know i did i talked to a guy in this show loser twersky who's a who got out it's like it's deep man it's like deep cult it's like yeah and they they keep all of their all the people all their kids as stupid as possible don't put them into public schools put them into yeshiva schools don't vaccinate them well there's that now yeah too thanks thanks uh thanks for seeing them for the measles

appreciate it we've gotten rid of them great idea once you spread the gene pool out a little bit do the diaspora thing you know yeah man and it's it's weird because it's like you think of a cult as being kind of like on a farm in the middle of nowhere but they've established this urban cult which you have to give

them respect for that. It's 1800s Poland right in the middle of Brooklyn. Yeah, there it is. Minivans and like caged in balconies. You ever think about

that one company that makes those hats for them? They got to do all right. I can't believe no rapper has appropriated those hats. They're so cool. Those big fur circles.

Oh, the fur circles? Man, that looks cool as hell. That's a very specific trip, that thing. I mean, a bathrobe and a giant fur hat, that seems like rapper worthy to me. Those are very specific. But even the brims, there's a company that makes the Jewish brim hat. Oh, yeah, yeah. They're a little different than regular hats.

Yeah, yeah. All of it, the black suits, the top suits. I'm fascinated with it. Now I feel bad for saying what I did because I used to get emails from them, mostly this guy, Loser, who ended up pulling out of the cult. I don't know how he's doing. He's an actor. That's a pretty interesting conversation.

So you weren't brought up that Jew-y. Well, it's kind of like both my parents were Reformed. My mom's side grew up kind of like Zionist before that was a bad word. Sure, sure. You know, people can remember that from that. Culturally Jewish, but totally pro-Israel. Not totally. She's still like very like, she won't accept Israel's bullshit. She recognizes when Israel is like,

mistaken and pushing for Israel to be more liberal and for a peace process. Did she do the kibbutz thing? Was she in Israel for a while? She was born in Israel. Yeah. My mom was born in Israel. Oh yeah.

The Israeli Jew versus the American middle class reformer conservative Jew is a very different animal. Yeah. Actually, what I would say is my dad's kind of working class Brooklyn by way of Fairfax or Fairfax by way of Brooklyn Jew and she's more like Claremont

Zionist but a little more like firmly middle class Jew so they're different breeds of Jew right there. Sure, well it's full spectrum. Yeah, I guess that's it. Full spectrum of Jew. So what were you studying in college? Were you an English major? No, I wish I was.

I did development studies, which was like third world political economy, which I just- So were you looking to save the world back then? To me, it was, I went to public schools and I loved my public school education, but I wasn't, because it was LA, it wasn't, I think if I went to public school in the Bay Area, I would have already learned all this kind of like other side, what's going on in these developing countries history. But because I hadn't, I went to college and it was kind of like blowing my mind. Like, wow, this is most of the world and it's so different from here and it's so different

from Western Europe, which we mostly studied. And so to me, most of my parents, they had BAs and things that they didn't end up doing for a living. So I was like, whatever interests me, I'm going to study. And that's what I studied. Now, in retrospect, I wish I'd done some kind of writing thing or English or something like that. Well, what were you studying in that? Were you just learning about what?

You know, the different like client systems of the Cold War were like, you know, the United States would have their countries that they support. And the USSR would have the countries they support. Right. And how it wouldn't really matter about the politics. They would just kind of build them all up. How, like, raw goods are not going to make as much money as manufactured goods. And that kind of keeps these countries down because they're depending on this, like, earlier stage in the economic line of things. So you were basically learning about how the capitalist system fucks the world.

Yes. That'd be another way to put it and and how the existing empires have uh contracted but still fucked the world through the capitalist system yes yeah that was it and then and then and then right the two months after i graduate 9-11 happened and the whole system was like turned on its head and it was all kind of crazy yeah it's crazy now now that you know we've got a president that just wants to make it a bunch of tough guys with their chunk of territory. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess it's, I was going to say- I think he'd be willing to give up Europe.

Yes, easy. I think Trump would be like, let Russia have it. Yeah, totally. We're good. Then it'll just be Russia, Europe, China, and us. And I'll know who to talk to on the phone. I think he doesn't even understand things in that complex of a level. I think that's true.

So you're doing that in college and you're disillusioned or you're doing comedy in college? When did you start that shit? Well, I joined a sketch comedy troupe while I was there at Berkeley. I joined an Asian sketch comedy troupe called Theater Rice because it was the only one available to me. So it was just you and a bunch of Asians? Yeah, me and a bunch of Asians. Huh. And I just, I knew a guy.

He said to join it. He said he was starting it. I'm like, can I join? I joined. You played the white guy? Well, I wrote a whole sketch that was, it was kind of like a live action kung fu thing. So I would voice the guy doing like,

and he would like mouth the words on stage. It was like a dub over, but live. Sure. That's a classic comedy bit. Kinda. Yeah, totally.

Yeah. And, uh, and I wrote this big sketch for that. It was like super long, had tons of jokes, really dirty. Cause that's what I ended up doing.

That's what I like. And, uh, man, it went over huge. And I remember lying in bed that night and like thinking like, uh, this, I'm doing this,

this is what I'm doing. Yeah. Also though, it made a, there was another sketch in the sketch groups that was thinking like, I'm doing this. This is what I'm doing. Yeah. Also though, it made a, there was another sketch in the sketch groups that was very dealing with a lot of stereotypes. Yeah. And some guy thought I wrote that one and thought I was being racist and that I

was racist. And then there was an article in the Asian weekly paper called, uh, fuck Louie cats. Yeah. By a guy who's now like a pretty established journalist, honestly. And you hadn't written the sketch?

I had not written the sketch. The guy didn't even stick around to see. The guy was so offended by the sketch that these other people who were Asian wrote. What was the nature of it? It was just simply like finding ways to say all these words that are stereotypes. Yeah. They were construction workers. Like, oh, I'm going to pour all this gook into this chink.

You know what I mean? Right, right, right. Yeah. Well, I guess I'm not writing on SNL anymore after that. But I'm just quoting somebody, so please don't take that out of context. He still wants the job, Lorne. Yeah. Yeah.

No, I get what you're saying. And so it was. It was using all these words that I didn't use and wouldn't use. And yeah, the guy got really mad. The guy wrote that article. It was controversial within the group. And it was very stressful very stressful like being like i was just like hey i'm just wanted like it was also like an eye-opening thing to think of like the weight of they were saying like you know it was also even his even though if that wasn't the right sketch his sketch was

very vulgar is that what we want to represent in our group right right well i mean it's weird like as you make that that joke about just now we just made that joke about that guy who didn't get he got fired from SNL. I mean, but that was not there was no context to that. Yes. I mean, it's like this idea that it was a joke is not correct. No. I mean, from like, you know, I can identify jokes. It was somehow an environment had been created where the casual use of those words was part of the thing yeah you

know and it was not a popular environment and you know once it be got the light of day was shown upon it people are like what is that environment i get i mean i to me it's like it was because i so i ended up eventually moving to new york and it's a weird thing is that like racism is like a part of east coast comedy tradition and just like joking around between friends and straight up stand-up comedy in a way that it just isn't or wasn't on the West Coast and isn't the way I grew up. You know what I mean? Well, I mean, I can see that. I mean, because I lived there long enough to know, yeah, it's part of the East Coast comedy tradition if everyone's represented in the conversation. I mean, if it's just a couple of white guys sitting around saying the N-word, that's not quite the way it is. But if I'm sitting at the table with Patrice and Keith and Jim and

whatever, and there's an understanding there that everyone's taking a hit at each other, it's different. I mean, that's a contextual thing. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I mean, it's almost like when people first meet each other on the East Coast, it's almost like race play is how you make friends. Like, oh, you're a Jew. You're so cheap. And other on the East Coast, it's almost like race play is how you make friends. Like, oh, you're a Jew. You're so cheap. And it's like, and coming from the West Coast, I'm like, what? Like, no one's ever said that to me in my life before I moved to the East Coast.

Okay. So, well, we can get there. So, when you, because I know that, like, you spend a lot of time with Attell. Yeah. Who I love and who I came up with. And it seems that you gravitate towards some of the filthier joke writers and tellers. Yeah, I like smart and dirty. That's what I like.

So it's like Jim and Dave. And did you open for Stanhope too? I like, my guys are like, I'd say like you, Stanhope, Attell, Maria Bamford, and then Chris Rock. Yeah, sure. That's a good representation. I guess I like someone kind of making me think of things or see things in a way that I hadn't or expressing something that's really hard to express. I really like that in stand-up.

Well, it's funny with Attell. that's really hard to express. I really like that in stand-up. Well, it's funny with Attell. It's like he can, it's like, you know, I can see that applying to Maria and to Doug in terms of really taking ideas. But Dave is like, every joke you're like, what the fuck?

Yeah. How did that work? Yeah. Because he's working them like it's a never-ending math equation. It's pretty crazy. It's crazy. Yeah.

Like every time you watch him, just the marvel of his goddamn turn of phrase. Yeah. It's pretty crazy. It's crazy. Like every time you watch him, just the marvel of his goddamn turn of phrase. Yeah. It's nuts. And he's doing, it's the amount of jokes, the consistency of how funny it is, the pictures that he paints, and he's doing it all in like no sleep and no food, which is like, I know after working with him, it's like mind blowing. Someone should study his brain after he dies.

Well, he, well, he, I think he sort of, like it's a way he sort of stays engaged in the world is this compulsive process of writing jokes you know whether it's in his head or whether he's tooling around with like it seems almost like a it's almost like sudoku with him you know what i mean yeah i think that's just the way he's constantly going and staying sane i mean he's almost ruined anyone else riffing for me because it's not as good as him when I see. He riffs full jokes that other people would love to have written. You know what I mean? Right, right.

And just off the top of his head. It's crazy. Great referencing. So when you start out here, who are you outside of getting a good response and comedic reaction to the sketch group? Are you watching comedy are you going to see it well that's a part of your life what was kind of cool was that i was i think this helped me was that i didn't watch that much stand-up until i started doing it so i didn't have this you know i didn't have like that first five

years you weren't a fan yeah i wasn't doing someone else well i was a little bit so i like chris rock coming up because i grew up in the mid 90s and he was like the guy yeah and of course eddie murphy growing up and then on tv we would watch when we're in college we would get high there'd be an hour of the simpsons and then we'd switch from the simpsons rerun channel to bet and watch comic view which would be on all night and that was really the only stand-up i was watching and i think i think i'd maybe i think the first I did stand-up was every time I ever saw it live, the first time I did it, like at a show and then afterwards at an open mic. Oh, really?

Yeah. That was the first time you saw live stand-up was waiting to go on? Yeah. And I really love sketch, actually. I thought SNL was so cool growing up. This thing that was on, it was later than I was supposed to be staying up. And it was like, back then, now commercials themselves do commercial parodies you know what i mean but back then it was like oh they're making fun of all the regular it's like this weird bizarro world of media and i thought

it was so cool yeah so that that was really where that and like comedic movies was what i really loved was movies and sketch yeah so you kind of thought about being a writer from the get-go well i was so i wrote that sketch thing And then after I was in the sketch group, I caught all the heat. The next semester, I was going to make a comedy porno, which I'm glad I didn't. I didn't make it. What was the concept? I don't think I had one. Oh. But you were going to be in it? Yeah. I interviewed girls. I'm so glad I didn't do that. And then luckily I was, I didn't, that didn't go through.

I spent the next year studying abroad in Brazil. So I was living in Rio and just kind of like writing things and trying to think about like, should I write movies? What should I do? And you were living in Rio? Yeah. Rio de Janeiro. You studied abroad in Rio?

Yeah. Why there? Was it part of what you were studying? It was. I wanted to, I went, I spent the summer of my junior year. Isn't that like where people go just to do complete hooker vacations? Yeah, some people do. I didn't.

I mean, I could have. I don't know what I did. I have a vague memory of the certain few comics that were like, we're going to Rio. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just going to be hookers night and day. Yeah, yeah. Oh, man. Now that sounds kind of fun.

But that's not what I went there for. Yeah, right. I went there to study. I was basically, I went on this program for Jewish kids going. I didn't know I could go for free on this trip later on. I went to this summer between my junior and senior year of high school to Israel, eight weeks in Israel. Sure.

And I hadn't really traveled internationally that much. How'd that affect you? Dude, it blew my mind. Not even just like religiously, but I just love the history. I loved walking on streets that were like, I like the Christian parts. I'm like, oh, this is the place, the street where Jesus walked. I'm walking on that street. Yeah, the seven stations of the cross.

Yeah. And then you go into that place where there's that slab where they laid him out. Yeah. And people are rubbing their things on there yeah like pieces you know their crosses and their bibles and then the dome of the rock yeah i love that i didn't get to go to that it was too hot when i when i when like uh not too hot like politically for me to go to the for them to take all these high school kids to the muslim side of jerusalem really yeah oh but so but you didn't get it see like, like I found, like I

enjoyed Israel and I thought it was fascinating, but it was too scary for me to think like, I'm going to live here and I still don't know what's going on here. It didn't make me feel more or less Jewish, but I didn't feel like this is my home. I'll tell you, I felt, it felt nice just like knowing that everyone there was Jewish or understood what being Jewish was. But I'll tell you what, I get the same thing in New York, and it's a nicer place to live. Yeah, I think part of the whole white nationalist Christian agenda is not to kill all of us, but to push us all to Israel. I think a lot of the Jews in the world have to be in Israel

for the second coming to happen. It's in the book. So I think part of the agenda is like, let's just scare them out of here to israel well that's funny because that's israel's agenda too is that we all get scared enough to go and move there and i'm not trying to do that to me it's like i always thought like when i grew up knowing that like well if shit goes down you can always go to israel i'm like if shit's so bad in america that we have to go to israel it's not good in israel it's not safe in Israel. There's no point Yeah, and it's just oh my god. I don't even want to go so so you didn't get any more

Jewy, but you enjoyed it. I enjoyed I enjoyed the I enjoyed being in another country and having that other perspective So even even now I've been traveling and working the road for all this time and I still go to places I'm just like man people live here. This is crazy. It still blows my mind. Like St. Louis? Like, dude, exactly. Exactly. I'm saying like every range of it, from like exotic foreign countries

to like small shitholes in America, I'm still like, man, this is nuts. What a different life. And I love having my world spun upside down and like having this new perspective. Yeah. So I knew I wanted to study abroad. And honestly, like I wanted to go to, everyone that I knew either went to like England, Australia, or Israel.

They don't want to learn a language and they want to, or they want to do the Jew thing. Yeah. And I was like, I got to go somewhere different. And I narrowed it down to Brazil and India just because I knew nothing about it. I want to go to India so bad. Well, I went to India after I graduated from college too. Did you get sick? My friends did. And by the end, I was just eating bread. I would only eat bread. I was so scared of getting sick. They got so sick. Oh, it was rough.

All right. So wait, so we'll get to India. So you go to Rio. So yeah. So India, I tried to choose between the two. I got high with my friend who's a Brazilian-American. He's like, dude, go to Brazil. And I'm like, cool. I'm like, dude, part of it, I knew nothing about Brazil. I was like, man, it's got a Z in the name. Cool. Like, that's all I knew.

I mean, little did I know it was, like, perfect for me. It's just, like, it's, like, beautiful and it's a land of, like, big butts and beautiful music. And it's, like, it was, like, it, it ended up like shaping a lot of the things, ways that I am and, and, and interest that I have. Like what big butts and music? I mean,

I learned so much about, first of all, I learned, I spoke, I learned Portuguese. I speak fluent Portuguese. You do? Yeah.

So yeah. Do you use it ever? No, you know, I don't, but you know what I want to do? I want to, can you speak Spanish?

I can understand it and I can struggle to get through it. Right. And what I want to do? Can you speak Spanish? I can understand it, and I can struggle to get through it. And what I want to do is, I think if I spent a month in a Spanish-speaking country, I could become a fluent Spanish speaker, and then I want to start doing stand-up in Spanish. So you've got a knack for languages, or at least the Latin language. I was in the lowest level when I started that course, and then I became fluent and probably one of the better Portuguese speakers by the end of it, just because I learned that you can that I thought I was bad

at languages and then I realized the way you really learn a language is by speaking is just speaking to locals over and over and over again and I got a Brazilian girlfriend and she didn't speak any English

and that was that man I became a fluent Portuguese speaker and I love I learned How long were you with her? It's too long that was like a major mistake.

We were together the year I was there, and then we did long distance for five years after that, and then we got the fiance visa, and she was going to move to America. And you know what the fiance visa is? You have two- No, I think 90-day fiance is pretty much that. It's like you have two or three months- To get married? To get married.

And within six weeks, she took a trip to visit her friend in seattle which was actually a trip to minnesota to fuck this guy she'd been seeing for the last year so we i didn't marry her i guess i dodged a bullet but that yeah me up pretty bad real bad because she was fucking that guy behind your back yes yes that's why is that not clear i don't understand is that is that not not uh i just want to make sure i understood the timeline yes yes but you learned portuguese i did learn portuguese i will also i also wait well i'll tell you this probably learned some things sexually yeah yeah well and also like i think like being in a long-distance relationship right when i started stand-up was perfect because I felt like someone loved me.

I had someone to talk to. I had a girlfriend. Did they have Skype then? No, they didn't. We were just talking. I could buy all these phone cards. But then I could focus totally on stand-up while I was doing stand-up. Right.

So in the end, it made me really focused and get really good at stand-up early on. Without being distracted by getting involved with a female comic or another woman while you're doing stand-up. Or anybody. I wasn't even trying to date. I mean, I wasted some prime years of fucking by actually being committed to this lady, which was a mistake, but in the end-

How was she fucking the guy in Minnesota? He was living there. It was like, it's like that rock joke about, it's like, it's the guy you always expect it to be. You know what I mean? It's like, it was this friend who was running this NGO where she worked at, and it was like I should have known it all. But was she going to follow through with using you to get a visa?

Here's the crazy thing. So she applied twice even just to get a regular visa just to visit. She couldn't get one. Right. And finally we decided to do this fiancé thing. I fly over to get. She couldn't get one. Right. And finally, we decided to do this fiance thing. Yeah. I fly over to get the fiance visa. Yeah.

I fly over. Not only do we have the, I go to have the interview with her. To Brazil? Yes. And I go there and I shoot a Portuguese rap video while I'm there. It's just something to do? I had an idea. Okay.

I wanted, at the time, there's this stuff, this music called Baile Funk was kind of big underground. It's kind of like Miami-based music mixed with old school rap and Portuguese. Yeah. So I wrote some dirty raps. I invented this character that was actually supposed to be in that porno that I was supposed to make in college called The Archduke. I wore a gold diaper and a powdered wig and a leopard skin cape.

And I wrote this whole song in Portuguese. So I spent one day with the interview and then one day shooting that video and I flew back. In a gold diaper. Yes, I shot it in a gold diaper. How'd that go? Did it get any traction with that? I made that video, I edited it, I showed it to my agent, he got me a meeting with

Super Deluxe at the time with Turner and I got a six-figure deal off making that video. So, she came and broke my heart, but I made a ton of money and got to make all these other videos, which was really cool. You did it. Yeah, I guess guess but that was all at the beginning of you doing stand-up to deal with super deluxe they were throwing away money at that time huh this was this is 2005 or 6 so no one really understands the internet and what videos are no one understands you don't have to throw

money about at it it's kind of like it's all about it being like low budget DIY is kind of the appeal right so they were throwing crazy money around man I mean I believe that's how I mean I don't to throw money at it. It's kind of like, it's all about it being like low budget and DIY is kind of the appeal. Right. So they were throwing crazy money around, man. Yeah. I mean, I believe that's how, I mean, I don't want to tell our business,

but I believe that's how like Maria got her first house. You know what I mean? I think everyone like, several people came up on it. Right. And then it just, I think the downside was

it just ended and people couldn't get their rights to their shit back. I did. Oh, you did. I have the rights to all my shit. But that's what happened to people though, right? Well, here's what happened with me was that it ended right in the middle of a deal.

Yeah. So it was like they either owe me all this money or I get the rights. I said, you owe me some of the money and I get the rights back. This was a second deal? I think it was that it was like several stages. You turn in certain things and then you owe more. I think it was one deal, I think. And they still owed me a ton of money.

So they were like, how about we owe you less money and you get the rights back? And I got the rights back. I mean, I haven't done anything with it. I guess I could make an Archduke movie or something. Yeah, but no, but it was just a thing that people panic about. It's like, I don't have the rights to that special anymore. It's like, who needs it? Yeah.

No, I always think about having those rights to things like that i mean like to be able to release stuff or like especially when like the videos are one thing but like imagine i mean you know how long it takes to develop an hour stand but they're out there anyways if like if you're popular people want to find it someone's going to rip it off and you can get it on youtube you know what i mean it's like what are you going to do it's true man i don't know i like i feel like there's a thing to like a body of work and I like that. Sure. But like even like, but the thing is, is like, even with like all, all my records, I, you know, I, I, I kind of have the rights to some of them, but, but they're all up on Apple music forever. So some people aren't though. I'm going to make, I'm not going to make money and not much money

off of some of them, but some of them I still do, actually. Some of my old records. Yeah. I mean, dude, it's hard to find those. Like, personally, I, strangely enough, prefer to listen to the audio of specials. I like watching specials, but I like hearing the audio. I can hear more detail and stuff like that. I just found- It's like when you're a kid, you listen to comedy records.

Well, I did. Yeah, but I didn't. I don't know why this is how I like it. I think I can hear more in the rhythm. I can hear more what they're doing. Yeah, the timing's so much better. It's so great to, like, you listen to Robert Schimm they're doing. Yeah, the timing's so much better. It's so great to, like you listen to Robert Schimmel

on CD. Yeah, man. Best. Yeah, I got to open for him a few times too, man. That was great, man. I mean like, I've opened for all

the dirtiest Jews, you know? Schimmel was awesome, man. Hearing his stories and like hanging out with him. About Jackie Vernon. His Jackie Vernon stories. He opened for Jackie Vernon. I didn't hear that.

I heard more of like his move to LA stories. Like his constant almost getting things, like it's classic Vernon stories. He opened for Jackie Vernon. I didn't hear that. I heard more of his move to LA stories. His constant almost getting things. It's classic comedy stories. I don't know if I should tell his stories on this thing. He's dead. Yeah. Well, I mean, he lived in Arizona.

He visits his sister living in LA. She signs him up without knowing at the improv open mic. He does well there. He loves it. Bud's like, you come here, you have a home to do stand-up. That's right, yeah, yeah. He goes goes back he tells us he has a family he's like you know what we're moving to la they drive to la before they go to the sister's desk like i want to show you what i'll be playing every week he drives to the improv it's burnt down he drove he drove into town the day it burnt down and his career continued to go that way for the rest of his life. The fire in the 70s.

Yeah, man, yeah. That's funny. All right, so you've got some money. You're doing comedy. You're heartbroken, kind of, but you got a gold diaper wig video that got you a big opportunity. You're doing stand-up.

Yeah. But that's what I always wondered about you since you opened for me. It's like, were you gunning to be a writer? Did you want to do the full stand-up thing or you didn't think about it? You didn't separate it? I wanted to make movies and do stand-up. And I've since shifted into writing because it pays me.

So when do you go to India? That's right after I graduate from college. That's between- Oh, that's before. The month before I graduate from college, I do an open mic every week. I go to India for a month. I come back. I do stand-up.

I haven't stopped doing stand-up since. Got it. Since I graduated. So the Brazil connection was always happening through the open mics and through everything.

Yeah, through my first five or six years in comedy. And India just was like a month before you really got going. Yeah, I was like... I think I was six... A month or six weeks

in India right after college And everyone you went with... I think the reason I India right after college. And everyone you went with. I think the reason I'm focusing on India is everyone you went with got sick. I went with two people. They both got so deathly ill. It was India. Remember, I was like, I like that change of perspective. I don't know what going to India is like now, but back then, it blew my fucking mind, man.

It's so different. It's so... I mean, it's like you go outside and just walking two blocks, and you walk back to your room and you just like close the door like, what the fuck? That was so intense. Like it's so intense there. And it's like, it's hard to even describe it, but it was amazing. And I recommend it to everybody, even though my friends got sick. So you're doing standup and you got the deal with Super Deluxe.

And then like you start writing, like how do you get aligned with, like I like always liked your jokes i think we actually had a similar joke did did you remember what it was because i remember we talked about it i thought it was that um that the first time i had sex without a condom on it felt like i stuck my dick inside the mouth of god oh yeah and you don't think it's that but that's what i think it is you do i that's what i think the joke i think there's a similar you want to oh yeah I have a, oh yeah. You have a joke like that. Maybe. I don't remember what it was,

but I just remember that we have like a similar way of thinking humorously. Yes. Which is fine. Yeah. It's good. It's also like, it's tripping me out now at my age

where like, you know, I'm listening to you and Stan Hope and I'm like 21 and I'm just like, these guys are nuts. Like they're all fucked up. This is crazy. And now it's like all so And I'm just like, these guys are nuts. They're all fucked up. This is crazy. And now it's like all so relatable.

It's like, oh yeah, I've done that. That's happened to me, like all of it. And it's like, ugh. Welcome, welcome. It's just a matter of time, Louie. You just had to grow up a little bit, that's all. Just out of curiosity, when you work with a tell, does he ever tag for you?

Does he ever go like, do you ever think maybe- He's given me like one tag or something like that do you ever get those calls from a teller like do you do a thing about jesus oh all the time so he's like known for this because he's so careful about not taking anyone's joke he'll just call you up like do you have anything about a egyptian scissors or like whatever it's like no i don't i don't i'd never i don't even i've never put those two words in order before in my life what are you talking about i think one time he called me up do you do a thing about jerking off in the bible yeah man he's crazy about that and it's it's i also respect that about his work ethic he like is really anything that's even been slightly done before he doesn't want to do

because it's only going to be like with him, they're mostly shorter form jokes. What's the real? It's not like a 20 minute chunk. What do you mean? If he feels like it's something similar, it's not like he's losing a quarter of his act. Yeah, well sure. But because those

jokes, he takes so many of those jokes to make a full hour, they're so fucking valuable because it takes forever to add them all up. i'm just saying if you go yeah i do do a thing about jerking off the bible if he doesn't finish the joke that he's working on about jerking off the bible it's going to be it's one minute gone yeah exactly yeah totally yeah totally um so when did you start like doing writing for these like i mean what i mean outside of the well you were you gave me my first writing job, really.

I mean, so, so what happens is I moved from the Bay to LA. I'm doing this super deluxe thing. Yeah. I'm breaking with that girl. I'm going nuts on the road and stuff like that. And I try and pitch things around LA and they're like,

well, maybe if you were more famous, we would buy this from you. And I'm like, well, maybe if you bought this from me, I'd be more famous. Yeah.

So I realized there's that classic paradox. I decided to go to New York and focus on stand-up. Yeah. And I moved to New York. And this is when you're at New York and working at Air America. Right. And you hook me up with basically my first formal writing job, which is writing a few sketches for you.

Yeah. On the Air America show. Yeah, yeah. The last days of it. With me and Cedar. Yep. Oh, my God. Yeah.

That's right. Yeah. Yeah, I tried to help out. Yeah, no, you did. You totally did. You tried to get me to sublet your place. You were very forthcoming about the bedbugs, which I appreciated. I heard some people didn't get that much honesty,

so thank you for telling me that you had them. Get that much honesty from me? Yeah, that's what I heard. What did you hear? I just heard some people, like you and me, you're like, there were bedbugs. We don't have them. I heard some people were just, you were just like, just move in.

It's cool. Like, whatever. Well, I mean, you know, after what, at what point do they go away? I mean, God knows I tried to get rid of them and I did everything you do to get rid of them. I'm sure you got rid of them. This is a panic time. The 2009 to 2012 in New York with the bedbugs. Crazy.

Do you call it apartment AIDS? Isn't that your line? Huh? Apartment AIDS? I don't know if it is my line, but I like it. I mean, that's basically what it was. People were so scared. It was driving people out of their fucking minds.

I knew there was a girl who worked at Air America that didn't have them and thought she had them and lost her mind. Oh, yes, exactly. I've gotten them twice on the road, which is the best place to get them. You have? Twice on the road. What do you mean? How do you mean? You got bit?

I wake up. I get bit by them. I can see the marks. I can tell that I get them. You have? Twice on the road. What do you mean? How do you mean? You got bit? I wake up, I get bit by them. I can see the marks. I can tell that I have them. They like women more than men. I'm tasty. And I get the three bites in a row and I just wake up covered in welts and I'd be like,

ugh, and it's like my hotel room. Twice it was my hotel room. It's the best place for it to happen though because you can like, you tell the hotel, you're like, man, you gave me these bed bugs. You could put all your stuff in their giant dryers. You can even put your luggage in their giant dryers. You dry it enough there, it kills them all. They move you to another room.

You're good. Instead of taking them back home. Right. But it was rude. I mean, man, they bit me those three in a row, like right across my bald spot, like just to rub it in. It was horrible. It was horrible.

Oh, my God. Both those times. So you didn't take my apartment. I didn't take your apartment. You tried to sell me. Several people have tried to sell me on Astoria, and I'm just not. I prefer Brooklyn, personally.

Leo Allen ended up living there for years. Oh, yeah, yeah. I don't even know if he still lives there. He might. All I know is that I just held on to that place, and eventually the guy who owned the building sold the building, and the new guy came up to Leo and said, Are you Mark?

And Leo goes, No, he's not here right now. He's like, All right, you're the guy now. And that was how I lost my lease. All right, you're the guy now. That's so funny. That's so funny. I guess I could have fought it, but, like, fuck it. Yeah, man. I mean, eventually you've got, but like, fuck it. Yeah, man.

I mean, eventually you got to let go. You didn't like Astoria. Well, I just felt everyone's like, it's 15 minutes and you're in New York. Yeah, you're in the Upper East Side. That's not exactly where I'm trying to go. I'm trying to get to downtown. So why not live close to downtown? No, you're not in the Upper.

Oh, I get it. But you're not in the Upper East Side. You're in Midtown. You go over on the N and you end up where? You can just see it's the N and the R. I'm saying the first stop off the L is First Avenue and 14th, where I want to be, versus like 50 whatever. But you don't get all the great, all the weird ethnic food and excitement.

Well, that's, I mean, I think the food, maybe because I don't live in Astoria. It sounds like you're just surrounded by, you know, Hasidim. Like in Astoria, it's like a multicultural paradise of weird shopping hours well I still have like it's very Puerto Rican and Dominican right where I live in in Brooklyn right now and

so it's like so I get all kinds of different people I mean there's also the thing is like when you're in New York and really working stand-up it's like really just a like I don't hang out in my

neighborhood I'm out every day and night yeah yeah so you're you're just wandering around a little bit during the day, and then you're out until like 2 in the morning, and you've got to figure out whether you're going to take a cab or take a train back. Exactly, so it's easier to be closer to there. Sure. So when you go to New York, you say that that's when everything sort of shifted

in terms of your perception of what you could do with comedy and the way people act. I mean, how long were you in the Bay Area doing it? What made you move? I moved from the Bay because I felt like I was done with there, and I always thought it was a small town. I grew up in L.A., so I'm used to being in big cities. It felt small.

And there wasn't enough outlets, really. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, eventually you're just doing all this every time you can, and it's time to go. Yeah, there's the punchline in whoever's little room. How many times can you do roosters? Yeah, yeah. What's the other one, that weird one?

It was like sort of a sports bar. You know, it was big. Tommy T's. Yes, Tommy T's, yeah. But yeah, there's not money there. Now there's actually a lot of local shows. Yeah. But this was a different time.

There was a certain amount of stage time. I'm doing as much as I can. It was time to go. I went to L.A. because that's where I was. I went home to L.A. and it was fine and it was good, but I decided I needed to get some heat and I went to New York. So I went to New York. I got the heat. I got a half hour special. I did an album for Comedy Central Records and then I stayed. And maybe that was a mistake. I just stayed there after I got the heat that I wanted.

I don't know. You weren't out of punch. It's a good place to perform. When I was there, it was before Alt Room is really, I mean, Luna happened when I was there, it was before alt rooms really. I mean, Luna happened when I was there. But still, it's like, I still think that figuring out how to perform at the Cellar is like a huge victory. Yeah. It's a rite of passage. Totally. And it really is a great room. And it's also something that I really- It's a hard room.

But once you master it, it's a great room. That's funny because you go up the store. And I was just hanging out at the store the other night. I'm like, this is a tough room. After every comic, 20 people get up and leave leave and this is the stage time i'm fighting for this is ridiculous what times you get there it's a four hour show and everyone's leaving between i make sure they put me on you know before 10 okay like i'm like i went third or fourth up and then i'm out there you go yeah but it was a hard room to it was a hard room to figure out

though as well sure it's yeah but you don't it's it's different now it's like it's this thing it's like it's a thing to do when you go to new york now it's not just like local roughnecks or whatever like late at night no it was oh no it wasn't always that it was just that you it was a no it wasn't that wasn't the reason it was just sort of a and i think a lot of new york that you can't you can't be indulgent like you can't be in san francisco i mean you can't noodle around up there i mean you've got to be you know efficient and you punch lines have got I mean, you can't noodle around up there. I mean, you've got to be efficient and your punchlines have got to land. Yes. You can't like, I mean, I spent two years in San Francisco just kind of noodling. Really? Well, I mean, the way I work is improvised. So like, if I can just get up there and start running through shit until it sticks, it's great. You

know, whereas in New York, you better have some place to land. In San Francisco, they'll indulge you. You don't have to have a landing pad, have someplace to land. In San Francisco, they'll indulge you. You don't have to have a landing pad, really. I guess that's funny because what I was going to say was definitely internalize the lesson of New York. Because what I really love about you and like you and like Patton and you like the like the vanguard of like original alt comedies, like you have these club chops that you bring an alt. Of course. Well, that's why we started in clubs. I mean, I mean, that's why. I mean, both him and I started in clubs i mean i mean that's why i mean both him and i started in clubs there's a difference between people who started a few years

later all of us that did alt comedy or whatever the fuck it was in new york were club comics yeah i mean i have the sensibility but i'm saying that like in you get to a certain place with you who you are you can take risks on stage i just felt felt that when I left New York and went to San Francisco, that it was a little, you could be a little more indulgent. I guess I'm saying I really hate the indulgence. I used to think I just like tighter jokes, and now I really feel it's a level, these comics are like, I feel like there's entitlement.

I'm supposed to just listen to you, and it's not funny? comics are like i feel like there's entitlement no no you listen to you right and it's not funny why am i listening to you well but but i you know i was trying i was always pretty funny when i was indulging that's what i'm saying like you know i know funny yeah you know how to put it in there it's how you build it that's what i'm saying like i don't i think of you as the exact opposite i think of of you as like somehow like you really disguise the jokes right and they're coming but they're coming at you pretty fucking frequently right yeah and you're even using little turns of phrase to get through like exposition or narrative right that are still funny within that part right well i guess okay the bigger point i guess i'm trying to make then is that it's it's hard to build

long form material yeah in new york yes yes that's true true. Whereas in San Francisco, it was fairly, you know, they would support you. Yeah, I hear you. Dude, I tried, I had to do, I did this story for This Is Not Happening,

which ended up being like 16 or 17 minutes long. Yeah. And I was running it in New York and it was like killing me, dude. Yeah, because like you're like four minutes in

and you're like, oh God. Yeah. And it's not working? You can't get the laughs? Dude, I got booed off stage at the Fat Black Pussycat. I'm opening my heart and they're like oh god yeah and it's not working you can't get the laughs you're like a boot off stage at the fat black pussycat try i'm opening my heart and they're like be funny and i'm like this is not it's gonna be funny but it's also that's exactly the difference yeah yeah you know

that like in terms of vulnerability you know san francisco they'll carry you yeah yeah new york they're like what are you gonna cry exactly exactly yeah it was it was it was really hard to work that out too just in general because the other thing i'm in new york is all those storytelling shows and you go to those so when i do it i do these different than stand-up man exactly so i i try and do in stand-up rooms they're like why are you making us sad yeah and i'd go to the storytelling rooms like why are you making us laugh and they were both mad at me like why is there a dick joke in the middle of you being too funny? Yeah. Yeah, like I just jokes Oh, hi the emotion in the middle. Yeah, exactly. I mean like I also did it through a very like

Jokey but still storytelling way. What was it about that? Remember that was about this So after I have like all these misadventures with women after the Brazilian girl and for a while I was dating this I met a gutter punk in Portland by someone who lived in a squatter?

she was in and out of the squatting thing and it was about she had a rash? like do you sounds like you're thinking of a specific girl

and you're wondering which is the same one no I just remember seeing squatters in New York and they just all had skin problems and a griminess. Yeah, I mean, I think in Portland it's a little more of a lifestyle. She was somewhat clean, but she was a mess and amazing and it was a real mess. So, yeah, I did it about that.

It was a... That's a whole story. I mean, her and all that stuff. And how long were you with her? Maybe a year or two. It was pretty heartbreaking. She had a really bad alcohol and drug problem. And it was and I had a bad her problem and I couldn't walk away from her. Oh, yeah. No, that's a that's a classic situation classic situation. It's called codependency. Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, that's in the story. Yeah, did you try to get help for that? What do you mean, myself or for her? No, for knowing that you can't control somebody else and that you have to detach somehow because there's nothing you can do necessarily that's

going to change them and eventually you just get exhausted. Yes. Well, I mean, strangely enough, even though I look like the kind of person who's been going to therapy since I was 12, I only started seeing a therapist about two years ago in New York, and it's fucking helped a lot. Really? It took you that long?

Yeah, man. I wasn't going. And my last girlfriend. The one that just happened. Yes, the one that just broke my heart. How long were you with? Four years with her. Yeah, that one was, that's, yeah. Was she, like, was she all right? What do you mean? She wasn't a gutter punk. Well, that's good. What do you mean, was she all right? What do you mean? That's what I mean. No, it wasn't, it wasn't the same problems with her, but I had

my own problems. I think with her, was like I was shooting myself in the foot because I was really scared of fucking it up. I thought she was so good. It turns out I guess she kind of wasn't also over time. She wasn't good? I mean, the way she's been since the breakup has been kind of appalling, and she also changed over the course of the four years as we both did. When we met, I thought we both had so much in common

that by the time we broke up, I thought less so. Yeah. And she's been shitty about the breakup, to be honest. Well, I mean, in what way? Just not talking to you? No, we're both not talking to each other. She's tweeting rude, shitty stuff. Is she a comedian?

Yes. Oh, all right. Yeah. Yeah, public domain man like you know if you deal you know dating people with public profiles yeah as opposed to civilians yeah tricky i'm done yeah i'm done with comics i think i'm done with white women i think i'm cutting them both out she was the first white woman oh maybe second but like uh i rarely have i dated them and i think i'm done well you mean you'll date any other anything else anything else that's i guess that's uh that's open that's broad spectrum no i'm probably just joking i'm just

no i know i like i you know i did i married a comic you know and that ended horribly but i also know that I was horrible. So, you know, now, I don't know, man. Well, the thing is, like, you'd think from the tweets that I broke up with her, but she kind of broke up with me. So it's like, seems kind of unnecessary. And then, like, what are you supposed to be dragged into the arena? I won't do that, man.

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not doing it. I mean, I guess this is kind of doing it a little bit, but I'm not doing it. I'm not going to. No, but you, so you just let it be. You're just sort of like. I stopped looking, I stopped looking at her feed. Like I was not, I haven't talked to her since we broke up.

We haven't communicated. I was looking at her feed for about a month and then I was managed to just cut myself off. I have these shitty friends of mine who are like trying to make me feel better, like, man, you should see what you wrote now. I'm like, I'm trying not to. All right, but fucking tell me.

And they would tell me, you know, and it still sucks. You know, I just don't understand why they used it. Oh, fuck, well, I'm sorry you're going through that, pal. Even they would tell me you know and it's it's it still sucks you know i just don't understand what oh fuck well i'm sorry you're going through that pal even bring bring me up you know it's like it's like just the disaster of this of the you know of that everybody i don't quite understand it the need there's some people and i'm not talking about her i mean i'm talking about people i just i don't know i didn't date men women that they need to to constantly put shit out there like you know three or four times a day. Yeah. And it's like it's no one's getting paid for it.

And I understand branding and I understand, you know, staying relevant or whatever. But some of it just starts to look like, you know, like, help. Look at me. Yes. You know, I'm you know, I need some validation. I need I don't know what it is, you know, where it's sort of like, how many times are you going to do this a day? And these are people I respect and who I think are funny, and it still looks desperate to me. Yeah, man. Yeah, totally.

I totally agree. Where it's like, I understand how this platform works. I understand it's great to create content and that's sort of fun. But the amount you're doing it, it's like it looks desperate to me. Yeah, there's a gross neediness to it, a thirst to it that's off of fun but you know the amount you're doing it it's like it looks desperate to me yeah it's there's a gross neediness to it a thirst to it that's right off-putting even if it's great yeah i'm sort of like good all right thank you for the free thing are you okay what are you doing are you spending any time off of this platform i don't know man so what was uh what's your relationship with when did you write for Stanhope?

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Stanhope, well, it was cool because the first people I opened for, the very first person was that dude Tree. You know Tree? Yeah, of course. Yeah, I opened for this dude Tree. I wonder what happened to Tree. I don't know.

I think I'm an Eskimo brother of his. Probably. Yeah, up in San Francisco. I just remember this tall woman. Man. It didn't go as well as I wanted it to. I think it was like after a Sacramento punchline show, but she was like R. Crumb style, kind of like big and beautiful.

Oh, I love that shit, dude. And we just ended up in the hotel room, and I think it went a little faster than she was anticipating. And all I knew was that she had fucked tree. That's so funny, man. Oh, man. So you're hoping for tree. I'm hoping for tree.

But after that, I was so dirty that I got to, I started out dirty. I'm probably less dirty now. But that meant, you know, Molly, the book at the Punchline, bless her. Back when she was like 14? Yeah, I mean, she was, yeah, she just took over the booking dirty now but that meant you know molly the the book at the punchline bless her would always when she was like 14 yeah i mean she was yeah she was she just took over the booking and she would put uh book me with um i get booked with stanhope and atel and they're like some of the first

you're the local dirty guy yeah so i he's the they're the only person i can be booked with yeah this is because of my act yeah and so i like i started out i had a five a three minute bit about fucking someone with my nose you know it's like I can't open for everyone with that and so I got to meet him and I knew him

through all that stuff and I just got to I mean one of the great things about also starting in a city that's not New York is that or LA is that like

I meet people like you or them or stand up or tell and I open for them or Fitzsimmons who's also like one of my favorites and then I establish these relationships with them and it carries on afterwards I don't know if that would be true now and I opened for them, or Fitzsimmons, who's also one of my favorites.

And then I established these relationships with them, and it carries on afterwards. I don't know if that would be true now. There were so many less comedians then that it was easier to make friends. Now there's a million comics every time you go to, and it's hard to remember everybody. I don't know who anybody is. I just know that my group now,

I guess it was bound to happen, and I'm glad it did on some level, because means i'm still alive but you know you're just you're veterans and you know everybody kind of drifts away and has a life like you know all the cats i started with you know you're not you know in new york we were just there we're with each other all the time because it's what we did and there were three clubs and you know you just you'd be eating together you'd be with each other during the day yeah Yeah. And then as you have a life, you start to realize, like, my generation, we're all in our 50s, mid to late 50s, for fuck's sake. And, you know, I don't, you know, I'm always happy to see you tell, you know, and I'm always happy to see the people I started with. But, you know, we don't talk.

Everyone's got their own fucking life. Wow. It's weird. That is weird. Who are your friends? I mean, like, you know, I have friends. I have a a few that you know i but one of them lives in new york and you know like um and it's hard to it's hard to make new friends and it's in yeah and but but you know everybody but now you're saying you're even of the generation now where there's like a

thousand comics beneath you yes where you're like i don't fucking know what's going on anymore there's just so many people yeah how how can all these people be doing original comedy you know what i mean yeah man there's a lot of and i was talking to someone about it but it's like you'd think eventually they'd quit but they don't quit they seem to be sticking around no one knows how to quit yeah there's no way to quit well it's weird i thought there was a way you know i i did an interview with a guy who i thought got out gracefully Billy Braver but you know he ended up back doing it but there are people I know of my generation and the one ahead of me that eventually just drifted off and found jobs I think it's a pride thing that if you're in if you're a lifer you can't picture what else where

else you would go but I think there were people like from the 80s boom that were just sort of like, yeah, you know, a lot of them ended up on radio and some of them just went into jobs and they're like, it just didn't work for me. It didn't, because they had to have, you know,

like so many of them, like from the 80s, so many of the guys who were just features and stuff. I mean, would they all die? No, they figured out a way

to reintegrate into the world. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I keep thinking about how like, I mean, like part of me is bummed out that it didn't work out with this girl. And then I'm like now single again at 40. But part of me realizes like, man, if I wasn't, if I had a kid at this age, it would be time to like start really reevaluating what the fuck I'm doing.

And, you know, I'll tell you from my, the best thing I ever did was not have them. Really? For sure. Wow. I mean, I'm a fairly self-involved person, but I've been married twice and I don't have kids, so there's a reason for that. Yeah.

As I used to say on stage, I think the way my second wife put it was, you think I'm bringing children into this? That's funny. Yeah, that's funny. I just knew that, for years I knew like if I do that, then whatever I'm working on, whatever I'm trying to get to will not happen.

Yeah. And I didn't even know what that was, but I knew it was about me. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like if it all became about how do we feed this thing? Yeah.

That, you know, I don't know how I would live. I would literally feel like I was strangling myself from the inside just thinking about it. Yeah, man. So now like, you know, like I don't, you know, I never seem to be alone very long, you know, and I'm seeing somebody new now, but like my expectations are different.

Like how? There's a lot of things I don't have to do. I don't have to fucking get married again. I don't have to live with somebody again. I don't have to be up someone's ass every fucking hour. You didn't like that stuff? I mean, you're speaking to sound negative now, being up someone's ass, but I don't know, man.

I miss, like, this is the closest I've come to understanding like, understanding when someone calls someone their partner, like, dating this girl for four years. Like, I had a part, like, she was my partner. She was my partner in my life. That's nice. That's nice. Maybe I'm cynical. You're right. I don't know.

I miss that shit. Yeah, I understand. I mean, the last one I went out with, I had a lot of love for her, but I just felt that we were actually two, our lives were a little too separate and we were a little too different in a way. And, you know, I'm dating somebody that's more like me and more my age, but still I'm sort of like, because I have a codependent thing too. Like if I'm with somebody, I'm always going to be checking myself and I'm always going to be worried about what they're doing or thinking.

And, you know, to me that's exhausting's exhausting yeah but you can't work on that that's just like that's how it is well what's the payoff what do you what do you mean work on it you know what i mean like you know you can stay with someone and have this partner that we both said was nice it's pretty nice the thing is it's like i have worked so fucking hard for so fucking long to land on my feet and have my shit i'm in that now like i'm just trying i'm just starting to figure out what i like to do wow so like there's part of me that's sort of like what do i got to share that for i'm just figuring this out can i try to enjoy it myself i'm sorry it happened when i'm 55 but it just that's the way it panned out does that make sense yeah i think it does yeah i think it does i mean yeah and also i'm terrified

of like being hurt so finally the truth i don't ever want it i don't i don't ever like and i've really i think that you know if we were to be honest like i i don't you, and I really, I think that if we were to be honest, I don't, after that one, I think after that one that you saw that show about, after that first major fucking heartbreak, whatever it was, whether it was ego-based or whatever, whatever it was, it was so devastating that I just, there's some part of me that's sort of like, I'm not going to make myself that vulnerable again. You hardened your heart. I did.

Yeah. Are you doing that now? I'm trying not gonna make myself that vulnerable again. You hardened your heart. I did. Yeah. Are you doing that now? I'm trying not to but it's hard. I hope I'm not but I feel like I am. I don't really like, I don't feel like it. Like I'm working on this bit now how I hate like, you know what I love being in a relationship?

I love being antisocial and now I have to like meet new people. I don't want to do that. And I don't know man, I'm working on not doing it. This is all fresh, it's less than two months. I don't want to do that. And I don't know, man. I'm working on not doing it. This is all fresh. It's less than two months. Yeah. I don't know what I'm doing.

I don't feel like the bullshit of meeting someone anymore. And I don't feel like talking to someone who I don't really connect with, which I know you have to do to get you through to the person you really do connect with. So I don't know what it's going to mean. Well, I don't like it's weird because like if I've hardened my heart, I don't even think with the person who broke my heart or whatever that was, you know, I feel like I was obsessed with her and I loved her and like I like I loved looking at her. I loved, you know, but I don't know if I really, you know, was fully open, like I'm fully comfortable in an intimate situation. I think that most of what happened is, you is, I just did not see it coming at all

and it just completely shattered my whole life. Yeah, well, that's like with the Brazil girl with me. It was like, this wasn't as much of a blind side, this breakup, but yeah, man, it just like, it really fucks you up, especially when someone you trust and someone you let in like that. It does make you want to shut everyone else out.

But also you take them for granted and I was kind of a dick. Yeah, I did that. Yeah, and I was certainly a dick. And I don't know if – I obviously wasn't that great a partner if this was happening. And I don't know that I was capable of it for a lot of different reasons. But I just don't – I don't know, man. I don't – like I don't know what – sadly, it gets to the point.

Whether it's hurting my heart or like I don't know sometimes what the value of it is like to you know if i don't want kids and i don't need to be married again and i've sort of those ships have sailed what is it that i need from somebody else you don't get what i was saying that partner thing like no i get it i get you don't miss that and also like don't you feel like maybe this is corny or whatever and you talk about like the hurt and you don't want to get hurt again and all that stuff

and how bad it fucked you up but mostly you feel like a fucking asshole you feel like a fool yes when the cheating yes exactly when I was cheated on I did feel like a fool

and I felt like taken for a ride but and that part felt bad and also and honestly with this new girl I feel a little bit

like a fool with the last girl just because of the the way she's been tweeting since then makes me like wow I guess I didn't know her. Maybe she wasn't as great as I thought she was.

Maybe I was blind to everything. But at the same time, the hurt is only so big because it was so great to be with her when I was with her, you know? And so I'm trying to, the hurt is good, I guess? I don't know, man. You guys had a good time, huh? I liked her. I guess she didn't good i guess i don't know man you guys had a good time huh i liked her i guess you didn't like me i don't know yeah i i mean i i understand that i understand

that i guess like you know the partnership thing i guess i have to explore what the hell it all means you know i'm just i'm just a little old now and i you know i it's not clear to me i'm not i'm afraid like i get very like i just really want to keep my life to myself sometimes because like i i feel like i've earned it and i and i'm just learning how to live in it because like you you know when you do what we do for so long and you don't know what's going to happen yeah or how it's going to fucking go and then all of a sudden like in my mid-40s it works out you know what i mean yeah that was a long fucking haul dude oh yeah 25 years i'm very much aware of that yes i can relate to this kind of i don't know i somehow i feel like i'm

seeing some parallels i'm sorry i don't know i haven't even got to that working out part yet i know and i'm still saying i want to have hope i know i mean hopefully it turns around for me too shit well it's good we we seem to be on the same trajectory. I think it's going to. All right. So I got five years. I didn't mean to get selfish about it. I mean, I always did fine.

You know, we got by. Yeah, I'm getting by. Yeah. But, well, I hope you feel better. So what's going on right now? Didn't you just put out a record? Yeah, I had this. My last album was called Catskills, and people really reacted to that.

It was great. It made, like, the top five albums of the year from Vulture.com, if that means anything. Yeah. People really dug that. And I just started a new podcast with Matt Fulcheron about traveling. With who? Matt Fulcheron. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And so we do... That's great, because as you can tell, I love to travel. I've been all over the place. What's that called? It's called Roadheads. Oh, great. And so I'm doing that, and then I'm working on projects, and I'm working on this new hour,

and I'm always trying to push and become better at stand-up, and I feel myself getting better. And so as long as I feel like I'm getting better, I feel all right. So do you headline as well? Yeah, sure. Okay. So you do a tell dates? I do a tell dates, and then I headline myself.

I'm doing both of them. I mean, I think it's like, man, you know, just being like a fucking 40-year-old feature act, it doesn't feel right, even if it's for a tell who's like the best. You of them I mean I think it's like man you know just being like a fucking 40 year old feature act doesn't feel right even if it's for a tell who's like the best you know what I mean I should move over

and let someone else get in there but I just like it's hard for me to to make this move over and it sucks because I know people come up to me

every town now and they know me from my albums they know me from that or they know me from this is not happening they actually know me from things

but I really haven't been able to harness the power of the internet to really get people to come out and see what I- As a headliner. Yeah, as what I have to bring, you know? Yeah, like just where at clubs? Yeah, I do clubs. I do all that indie touring down south.

I do a lot of that and down south in the Midwest where I'll just book a room for a night and come through town. Does that work out? Yeah, that actually does work out. I've done a run there several times. I don't think I'm building up a following, but I make decent money and I get to go to all these towns and stuff like that.

I find a way to make it work and I always find a way to make it work, but it's a struggle. I'm on rep, man. I'm doing all this on my own. So I'm doing a podcast. I'm writing stand-up. I'm working on a show idea. I'm booking my travel. I'm promoting rep, man. I'm doing all this on my own. So I'm doing a podcast. I'm writing stand-up. I'm working on a show idea.

I'm booking my travel. I'm promoting my shows. I'm doing all that myself. So it's fucking a lot. It is a lot. And all that's like, none of that pays, really. All that's like volunteer work. Now, is being on rep your own choice or just the way it is?

No. No, it's not my choice. Yeah. And yeah, I mean, like, I think you need someone who wants to work with you. You know what I mean? Sure. You don't want someone, you don't want to be chasing people. Well, what about, like, what were you doing on Dave's Little Porn?

Oh, I helped, I wrote a little bit on that pilot, and I've written on a couple shows. Were you there when I did it? No, I only worked on the pilot of that. So I worked on Dave Attell's show, Dave's Little Porn. I worked on the pilot of that. I worked on Totally Biased. I worked on Guy Branum's show, talk show, The Game Show. So that's really where I've been making money. Kamau's show? Yeah, I worked on guy brandham show uh talk show the game show so that's that's really where i've been making out yeah we're gonna come out show and guy brandham show bay area comics who both hooked me up and that's like that's what's really

kept me going through all this other stuff the stand-up is like always kind of like kind of making money and kind of not and i get other writing gigs i'm like i ghost write for people and stuff like that and i get yeah i make i make money but it's always from like who knows what source and when it's coming and how you know you get a writer writing rep yes I agree you sound like one of my relatives like have you thought about getting on SNL maybe you should do that no I hadn't I hadn't considered that especially considering that all right legally no one's allowed to have a writing rep right now, but sure, I should get one. Alright, well, we'll figure it out. I'll make some calls. Appreciate it. Thanks. Great talking

to you, man. Good talking to you. Alright, that was Louis Katz. Get his album, Katz Kills. Also listen to his podcast, Roadheads. Alright? You know where to get that stuff. The audience will end before the symphony. Do you know what I'm saying?

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See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction.

Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5pm in Rock City at torontorock.com.