WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1075 - Keith Wager

Episode Date: November 28, 2019

Keith Wager is a recovery friend of Marc’s who has a lot to be thankful for. Instead of doing drugs and getting arrested, like he did in the past, now he’s telling stories about his addiction and recovery on his podcast It’s All Bad. And because it always helps to talk about things, Keith and Marc talk about the bad decisions he made while drunk or on speed, his time in various detention centers, and his new life as a Hollywood wardrobe stylist. Plus, Marc delivers his annual reminder of how to manage the emotional minefield of Thanksgiving. This episode is sponsored by Once Upon a Time... in Hollywood, SimpliSafe, and American Express. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed,

how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates!

All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck Knicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast WTF. Welcome to it. Happy Thanksgiving. Yes, it's here. Happy Thanksgiving. How are you? Are you okay? Is it all right? Did you get stuck in the snow? Is everything snowed in? Is it cozy at the house? Is it horrible at the house? Is there chaos at the house? Is somebody already drinking? Is somebody already drunk?

Is somebody already yelling? Did somebody fuck up the potatoes? What's going on there? What's going on in there? I've got to go outside. I've got to get out. I recommend this every Thanksgiving. Look, this might be the time.

If you just turn this on and you're in the house and it's after dinner or maybe it's before dinner, whatever's going on for you right now, maybe it's time to take a walk, even if it's snowing. Take the dog, put your boots on. Did you bring the boots? No? Is there any at the house? Put the warm sweater put the the the warm sweater the warm shirt i wish i there's part of me i'm in florida i'm on the 28th floor

i'm looking out at the ocean i i got an ocean view this is this is what i need to do for myself now that i can afford to do it as as opposed to sleep at my mother's house it's great my point when i got into this was that I kind of wish I was someplace cold so I could wear the hat and the gloves and the scarf and the three shirts and the sweater and the jacket and the boots, maybe some long johns,

maybe there's a stove involved. All I'm saying, God damn it, for your own sanity, get out of the house. Take a walk, take a breath. There's nothing you can do. There's nothing you can do about them they're not going to change their mind they're fucked up they've brain fucked themselves on purpose and it's the deed is done just do me a favor like no matter how pissed off you are or

how frustrated you are how sad you are or how depressed you are look if you Look, if you're home, if you're alone on Thanksgiving, just be grateful. You know, I mean, don't get all, you know, depressed. Oh, my God. Just have an easy, nice meal. I mean, the Irishman's on Netflix, I think, as of yesterday. And, you know, don't make a phone call. Text a friend, but don't freak out. There's nothing wrong with being alone on Thanksgiving.

Consider it a reprieve a gift but look keith wager is on the show now keith wager there's no way you would know him he's a guy i know from the secret uh society i've known him for years he's a funny guy nice guy deep guy been through some shit he's got a podcast out and you know he wanted me to be on it i have not been on it because i don't think i'm i do not think it got fucked up enough for me to be on it his podcast is called it's all bad and it's basically these guys keith's been sober a long time uh you know he did jail time he did a lot of crank and now he's actually in show business and he works in wardrobe. It's a very weird arc,

but it was a great story. But him and his buddies, a lot of them ex jail guys put this podcast together where they just sit around and tell these horrendous dark stories and laugh almost all the way through it. Just like the, it's almost like a celebration of the darkest impulses, you know, with a certain amount of humility around it for surviving them.

And also most of the guys on the show are sober. But Keith, you've been sort of asking me to be on. And I said, you just come on mine. We'll promote it. And I haven't been on his because, frankly, I just don't know that I got fucked up enough to be honored with that anyway back to the thing look there's one thing i think we got to keep in mind you take a breath all right look i'm i'm i'm at my mother's you know many of you have been down here with me for years we've done this i do all the cooking my brother flew in with his kid so my

brother and his kid are here and he's working over at my mom's house i'm here doing this and so we're we're reconnecting i think that it's important to reconnect with the family members that you don't see very much that you should reconnect with me and my brother you sort of made it a point to be closer recently. And I think that's important, especially if you're getting old. And telling you, the family members that get your goat, that are politically wrong-minded, that are dangerous or evil people, that are active alcoholics, that are fucking active rageaholics,

that the consistency of the misery that unfolds every year, if you're still in it, figure out a way to detach from it. And there's nothing, this is really the time, these next couple of days, where you're encouraged to eat your feelings. I know it's about gratitude and whatever the history of Thanksgiving is, whatever that is, Whatever your family does.

I think one of the reasons why we all sort of get through it is because you go back. You're with family that drives you crazy. This is the day you eat your feelings. Eat them. Eat them all. Just like pie yourself to death. Stuffing yourself to death. Or you know what?

Actually, this year, I'm going to death you know or you know what actually this year i'm gonna tell you something i encourage actively getting into it with your politically wrong-minded family just get into it fuck it because if you think about it this might be the death throes between now and next thanksgiving or just shy next thanks, the democratic experiment could be over. So depending what happens early November next year, next Thanksgiving, we could be in a strongman world and a relatively authoritarian American experiment as that unfolds because of the voluntarily brain-fucked people who have chosen to close their minds off

to any barometer of truth or fact um for team sports uh in the name of uh minority rule and almost complete corruption so this might be it this might be the last thanksgiving and whether it's illusory or not, or whether it's partial or not, of a relatively tolerant America, this might be it forever. So, you know, keep that in mind when you're being grateful for stuff and when you're detaching politically. Maybe it might be time to die on that hill this Thanksgiving and just fucking give it to him. Give it to him. Or take a walk.

Take a walk. Either way, either way. I don't want to get anyone in trouble. So here's what's going on in my world. I almost did not leave my house in L.A. to come here because Fonda was sick. So now I've been really monitoring her. My buddy Frank, who works for me, he's going over there. He's staying with her, making sure she eats and eats and eats. And hopefully she'll survive until I get home

on Saturday. And then I'll start doing the subcutaneous fluids twice a week as sort of a makeshift dialysis and see if I can keep her around for a while. But I'm just shy of FaceTiming my cat. I'm like, it almost happened. My mother said, maybe you should FaceTime LaFonda. And I said, maybe that's a good idea. But then I'm like, am I going to ask Frank to let me use his phone to FaceTime my cat? You know what? I might. All right. So that's happening. I'm a little more tolerant. I don't know why I'm feeling chipper this Thanksgiving, but I think between us, between me and you, I mean, she'll find out, obviously.

She's gonna listen to this, but... So anyways, I don't know. Some of you guys know my relationship with my mother. Well, you know, it's a very difficult one around the issue of food and weight. You know, I was brought up by a mother whose most important priority in life is to maintain a weight of food and weight. I was brought up by a mother whose most important priority in life is to maintain a weight of 116 pounds for an entire life. That's been her goal and she's achieved it. But there's a lot of pressure. I was brought up by a functioning anorexic mother

and she'll own that. So my body image issues are ridiculous and fucking paralyzing and stupid. I happen to be in pretty good shape right now. But every time I get down here, I never feel like it's quite good enough. But a miracle has happened, you guys. And it's like a cloud is lifted. Is that my mother, between us, apparently put on a few pounds. And she's having a hard time losing them. Now, that means that she can't take the higher ground because she's in it with us now.

She's kind of struggling with the fight. There's no condescension. There's no judgment because she's not in her fighting weight. And it's weighing on her, but it's giving me and my brother a reprieve also my mom's boyfriend seems to become less annoying to me which is nice because like i i assume i'll snap today i started cooking yesterday so i'm ready to go i'm trying a couple new things because there's a couple vegan people i did the mashed potatoes with just olive oil and garlic, salt and pepper. I made, instead of yams, I made kabocha squash in pieces with coconut oil and the garam masala.

Roasted Brussels sprouts, no meat, olive oil. I might burn some string beans. And then the classic stuffing, which is definitely not vegan. And the bird. It's all going. It's all going. It's all going. I think it's going to work out. But my mom's boyfriend, John, maybe it's because it got back to him that I compared him to my father.

And I think that's stuck in his craw. So he's strangely kind of chipper and behaving. But also they get older, you know. I brought this up to you last year it gets to a point where they've got about five or six stories that they tell over and over again or they just react to things for a second or they just kind of go blank for a little while but uh he's taking it upon himself to see he tags everything now with the phrase it was a different time it was a different time. It was a different time.

No matter what he's saying. You know, like we used to go to Patty's in New York and everybody was there. It was a different time. On the west side of New York, there used to be a Jewish deli and a Chinese restaurant in every corner. It was a different time. But like it's over and over again. It was a different time. It was a different time.

Like literally with things like, you know, we would walk across the street when the light turned green over again it's a different time it was a different like literally with things like you know we would walk across the street when the light turned green but a different time it's a different time we had a bagel that you toasted you put butter or cream cheese on it but that you know it was a different time then it's not like that now we used to go to the toilet on you know you'd sit and you'd go to the bathroom and then you'd use toilet paper but that was then this is a different time it a different time. It was a different time. Everything was a different time. It's okay. It's all right.

As long as he's not driving everybody crazy, I'm good. Just remember, this could be the last Thanksgiving in a democratic America. So enjoy it. Fucking eat that pie. Fucking eat that ice cream. Fucking eat that stuffing. Fucking eat that ice cream. Fucking eat that stuffing. Fuck it. Fucking give it to your fucking relatives that are fucking brainwashed, angry.

You know what I'm saying. This might be it. The last free Thanksgiving. We'll see. Anyway, happy Thanksgiving. Love to the kids, to your folks, to your brothers and sisters, to your parents, to your grandparents, and to great-great-grandma. All right?

Now let's talk to Keith Wager. The podcast is called It's All Bad. It's a good story. It's a good story about jail crystal meth crank and uh show business a little bit it's good it's a good thanksgiving story the jerry that keith and i are referring to a few times is our mutual friend uh jerry stall uh the author of uh permanent midnight and several other books who's a good friend of ours. And I just didn't want you to be out of the loop. I didn't want you to be out of the loop. All right. Enjoy. This is me and Keith.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing with cannabis legalization. it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly.

This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series,

streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18-plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. See, this is the thing. It's like I know you from, you're open about. Yeah, 100%. I am too. And I got one of these, I'm open about the secret society. Yeah. I got one of these emails the other day about a guy telling me to shut the fuck up because of the tradition, right?

And I'm like, you know, go fuck yourself. Yeah. I mean, it's not like the six, like you old timers. I called him an originalist. I'm like, it's like the constitution. You know what I mean? I'm glad you're abiding by all that shit. Yeah.

But the success rate of AA is not at the level where we can just say like, hey, you know what I mean? Let's not tell people it exists. It's up for debate. Yeah. What the fuck? I have a thing at work all the time I do. I won't, I would never do, I mean like, you know, with you or somebody, people I know who are cool with it, like I'm fine, but I'm at work.

I tell, you know, like people start and I go, listen, you know, I've been fucking sober a long time because I have had several, you know, instances, especially at work where people are like, literally call me and like, hey, remember what we were talking about that day you know like my husband's fucking like you know yeah shit in his pants oh right sleeping in the fucking patio you know what i mean i'm like but i like in a weird way i'm carrying the message of the shit shit in his pants yeah so i'm open about it yeah but that's the thing is like i don't talk like i from my understanding of that's really about, you know, you're not supposed to be a representative. Their concern was people would be seen as representatives of the program. And if they relapse, then people are going to lose faith in the program.

Yeah. So let them find it by other means. Yeah. And I'm always very clear. Like I don't represent the program. There's many ways to get sober. This is how I got sober. And the more I talk about it, I get like three, four, five emails a week from people who are literally like, you saved my fucking life.

Right. You know, I found a meeting. And it's like, so I started to, here's my fucking alcoholic brain, though. Like that guy who wrote me that letter, I went back and forth with him. I'm like, I disagree, man. And I explained it. And now it's like, I'm so fucking resentful of him. He won the war.

I'm forwarding the emails I get that say, thank you. I found AA because of you. And I'm just going to keep forwarding them to that guy. Does this sound bad to you? Because he asked me, like I said, I defended talking about AA publicly. And he goes, what if you're wrong? And then I'm like, what does that mean? Like, and I said, maybe I'll relapse and die,

but I still have these things. Right. But like, how did you, like, I've seen you in meetings for years. Yeah. Initially, I was frightened of you. And that passed. Yeah.

I don't know why. I think we carried a couple of laughs. I think that was, you know. Is that right? Yeah, exactly. I'm like, me and Jerry as well. You know, I'm like, Jerry. Your buddy, Jerry.

Yeah, I saw him last night, yeah. Dudes that are Alan McDonnell, dudes that I can really connect with. Because I have like, I'll tell you the thing I find is like, because you're like me, you enjoy laughing a lot. Yeah. Alan likes to laugh. Alan McDonald? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. But like Jerry, for instance, or Mike you've had on the show, but he would like to laugh. He's a tough laughcdonald yeah yeah but like jerry for instance or you know mike you've had on the show but he's like the last tough laugh he is but you can get him and i can get him and i'm like and there's a great joy because i think he's one of the great writers he's great town oh yeah i'm like a guy that dark there's something fucking magical about making him laugh sure i also think you know i mean correct me if i'm wrong but i think you and i have an easier time because we laugh our way through it. Sure.

Yeah. The people that are always serious about it and not, you know, everything's a fucking dilemma. What, the programming? Yeah. Well, just try not to drink or use. Yeah, yeah. Those people are the ones who end up, and I'm like, I know how to be miserable. You know what I mean?

Sure. Especially with a bag of crank and a dirty Taco Bell bathroom. You know what I mean? So, like. Yeah, yeah. But I think that's yeah but there was a crew there where i was always very intimidated even jerry before we became friends yeah these guys are heavy man these guys are hardcore dudes you know there's that other dude

that you used to hang around i didn't see him much that guy was his name todd yeah like that you know he would tell stories about like fucking jail and i'd be like what the fuck but i think it's it took me a while to appreciate no i just felt like i wasn't i almost there was a period there i'm like i am not man enough right but you have to look at art what about our side of it like this dude's a writer this dude's a stand-up comic so the the difference is like you guys had jobs and we were on the other side going like holy fuck like that dude did that and still fucked it up you know I mean? Like that guy was writing on these TV shows and still fucked it up. And we all end up in the same place. So I think it's it's it's all relative.

You know, it's just these different because Todd and I are from pretty far east of Los Angeles. You know, and, you know, the more desert it gets, the darker it gets. Is that true? I know. Like, like, yeah, like Desert Hot Springs. All that shit. Where are you from? I'm from Covina, which Desert Hot Spring. All that shit. Where are you from? I'm from Covina, which is just on the way out there,

but it's also like the home to the Church of the Crystal Methodist. It's like when people started making speed, you know, all this shit. No, I don't know. In like 89 or 90 is when people, in the 80s, like up into the 80s. That's the biker crank days? That, yeah, towards the end of the biker. Yeah, it is the same thing. But a bunch of people started making it as opposed to just the bikers up till about 1990. Yeah.

So everybody was making it. So in turn, you have like, it's really fucked up. I mean, it devastated everywhere. Out there? Yeah. But like it devastated it in the same way, like not in the same way dope did or opioids. No, no. Because people were up and doing things.

Yeah, people are like, there's a lot of houses getting cleaned and carburetors getting rebuilt. And you don't die from speed, you know, unless you like fall asleep at the wheel or something. But things start falling out. Yeah. Teeth.

Your hair. One time I was at, I went to this house, I knocked on the, dude, our friend's girlfriend called crying. It's drugs are fucked up. What age is this? I was probably 22 and I'm in Covina and this dude lived in San Dimas next. But it's like three in the morning.

His girlfriend pages us. It was that long ago. I was like, you gotta come help. She's crying and shit. I'm thinking like dude's dying or something. So we run out there and he's in the, it's two or three in the morning. He's got a lawnmower with mag lights taped to it.

And he's trying to start it to mow the lawn in the middle of the night. Yeah. Two, three. And I'm like, what the fuck? And finally he gets it started him in the neighbor. The neighbor came out and helped him.

Yeah. And then he starts mowing the lawn. She's crying because he's blowing it. Yeah. And I start talking to that dude, me and my friend, Matt. And I swear to you,

Mark, he's like, he turns, he starts saying something and just like slow motion, a tooth flies out of his mouth at us and we were like both of us like whoa like dodging the tooth you know and like and then you know the three of us are looking for the tooth he put he kind of sticks it back in there and then finds like a piece of gum and it was a fucking nightmare i swear well this is like these are the stories on that podcast that's the funny thing

about the pot what it's good it's all bad it's all bad yeah like i listened to the first few and i'm like it's like it's like stories in aa without the shame or or apology or i fucked up part it's just like dudes celebrating the worst fucking stories about jail and drugs without any sort of like did you do the wrong thing no man we didn't get caught we're good it's funny it's i wonder because i wonder like i didn't know like when you're asking me to help you out or promote it i was like i don't know how to push it to people because i and i don't think it necessarily i i wonder about the kind of humor that we have from being in those rooms.

Yeah. It will translate to regular people. Humans. Yeah. To humans. You know, the decent people with a fucking full range of ethical behavior. I think it does. Not to everyone.

You know what I mean? Like, I've told my mom, like, don't listen to it. You know? Oh, yeah. Yeah. But I'm like, but I do think, I think it's kind of like what you were talking about, the opiates. I'm watching, you know, I've been watching so many people die the last few years because

of the opiate. Like people who, you know, who come in and go out. Yeah, come in and go out. But I'm like, but so I think the stories are good just because like none of those stories ever end on a high note. Right. You know what I mean? Like, I wish it was like, hey, I was smoking speed and I ended up on fucking glow with

Mark Maron. That didn't fucking happen. You know what I mean? Right, right. Like on a yacht with P. Diddy. p diddy none of that happens not painting it in a in a romantic it's not romanticized no because at the end of every one of those sort of thing i'm like fuck we are broke like can't put a down payment on a donut yeah yeah yeah you know you're i think i listened to the one where you thought the guy was dead and you left him yeah or i don't know who it was was that you oh yeah yeah and Yeah. And then he didn't die.

No. But the fucked up thing is, like, y'all decided it was the right thing to get out. To get him out. Yeah. It was fucked up. Yeah. But, I mean, I think that's kind of a lesson learned, like, to these young dudes doing dope. Like, it's every man for himself when you go out.

Well, that's always the fucking scariest thing about knowing, you know know dudes who i've known who have od'd is like you know there was at least two other people in that room right it's not funny but it's true yeah it's so true it's true like as soon as someone turns blue people are like how well you know this guy does he have any money yeah i don't know check his pockets life is for the living yeah but but it is like it is great it's great how how uh it's like listening to pirates laugh but somehow like how long are you sober now 21 years yeah i got 20 got 20. But, like, you somehow ended up in show business. Yeah. My friends call it Folsom to fashion.

Folsom. I was like, because I didn't get that drug diversion thing because I was doing speed. You know what I mean? Like, I was getting arrested a lot. But you're a wardrobe guy. I'm a wardrobe guy, yeah. And you're the main wardrobe guy? Yeah.

Yeah. For films, TV? I do almost all commercials. Oh, really? Yeah. I've done a couple of pilots and stuff like that, but almost all commercials. But okay, so let's start at the beginning. You're in Covina.

Yeah. And what, is your dad involved in the criminal enterprises? No, I, shit, I forgot. I should have told you that. What? I just found out who my dad was about two months ago through that 23andMe thing. You did? Yeah.

What do you mean? Who'd you grow up with? Well, no, but okay. The guy that we thought was my dad, I guess we thought, you know, me and my mom. Oh, okay. He died in 1970, so I was a baby. Yeah.

So I never knew him. But your mom thought it was your dad too? Yeah. So your mom was... Yeah. So I never knew him. But your mom thought it was your dad too? Yeah. So your mom was. Yeah. Well apparently. Go ahead now. I don't know what was going on with your mom.

No, so okay, my mom had this, was dating this dude. In the 60s. Yeah, in 69. Was she a groovy person yeah but not like a drug groovy person you know just like a visual hippie like Dragnet or some shit

you know what I mean I don't think they did drugs or anything but so she was dating but apparently they broke up because I think the guy we thought was my dad

got sent to Vietnam and then she dated this other dude a cop ironically yeah briefly and then

the Vietnam dude came back. They got back together. He ended up dying in a bar fight. The Vietnam dude? Yeah. And this is in Jacksonville Beach, Florida, where I was born. Boy, it just went from bad to worse.

Yeah. Jacksonville and then Covina. You didn't have a shot. There's no winning. No shit. Yeah. Dude, that's what I thought. I was like, fuck, how did I make it out of anywhere?

You know, like, it's not like I went from Jacksonville Beach to, you know, fucking Hollywood, California or whatever. It's right in the suburbs. Just stop short. So the Vietnam vet guy dies in a bar fight. Dies in a bar fight. And I did that 23 and me shit. And you thought he was your dad. Yeah, but.

But you didn't know. I didn't really know him because he died when I was a baby. Okay. And I didn't know anybody on his side of the family, which is odd. And your mom didn't either? No, I don't think so. And she's still around? She's still around.

She lives here. Okay. So it was just a bad memory for her. Bad memory for her. But. Yeah. She didn't know. So I'm like, I'm in Vegas doing this, I'm doing this commercial

with a bunch of like ball players like two months ago. Yeah. And I get a thing from the 23andMe thing and it's like, hey, this says we're, hey, this said we have the same dad. I'd love to chat about it. And I'm like, I sent it to my wife and I'm like, I'm like, it's spam or whatever, right?

This dude's dead. So I sent it to my wife and my wife goes, I'm like, it's spam or whatever, right? This dude's dead. So I sent it to my wife and my wife goes, did you call him? And I'm like, no. And I'm like, so I send my number back and I'm literally still thinking it's spam. And then when the phone rings, it's a 904 area code, which is Jacksonville Beach, Florida.

You know, Jacksonville, Florida. And I see it, I'm like, holy shit. And meanwhile, like two of the Lakers coming onto the court, you know what I mean? Like, fuck, I take it. And I'm like trying holy shit. And meanwhile, I have like two of the Lakers coming onto the court. You know what I mean? Like, fuck, I take it. Yeah. And I'm like trying to watch. And all of a sudden, I start talking to this dude.

And we're talking. I'm like, where do you live? He's like, he's 15 years younger than me. Yeah. But he lives in Jacksonville Beach. I'm like, what high school did your dad go to? He's like, Fletcher. I'm like, fuck, so did my mom, right?

Right. And then we're talking back and forth. And it's just all kind of lining up yeah so i'm like i'm like what's he like he goes he's a cop you know i'm like is he cool he goes he's cool but he's a cop you know i'm like okay so then i'm like i hang up and i call my mom and i'm the whole time i'm trying to keep an eye on did you fuck a cop yeah Yeah. Jacksonville before he came to Covina? He said that? That'd be fucking amazing.

So I call her and I'm like, are you sitting down? She goes, yeah. This is how fucking random it was, Mark. I go, hey, you know a guy named Mitch Kinsey? She goes, yeah, I dated him in high school. Literally like no big fucking deal. I go, well, that's my dad. And then she starts crying. And then I'm like, well, I dated him in high school. Literally like no big fucking deal. I go, well, that's my dad. And then she starts crying.

And then I'm like, well, you know what? It's all good. Because it kind of did close a lot of doors. I've always felt different not having a dad, the whole thing. And I'm like, well, shit. Okay. So now I'm 49 years old. Now I have a dad.

Right. You know what I mean? I'm like, fuck. All right. And he's still around. Yeah. I went down and met them. You did? Oh, yeah. Dude, it was fuck, all right. And he's still around? Yeah, I went down and met them. You did?

Oh yeah, dude, it was fucking wild, yeah. Do you look like him? I do somewhat, he's kind of a bear of a man though. He's big and big hands and shit. Dude, get this. I'm talking to them about, they're like, yeah, well he was a motorcycle cop in Jacksonville, blah, blah, blah, and they go, literally,

this is my siblings, matter of factly, they're like, yeah, I go, oh, so I have a brother named Gator, that, blah, blah. And they go, literally, this is my siblings. Matter of factly, they're like, yeah. I go, oh, so I have a brother named Gator. It's his nickname. The younger one? No, that's Mitch. I have a brother who's like three years younger named Gator. I go, why do they call him Gator?

I swear, they acted like this was the most normal thing. They go, oh, because dad wrestles Gators when they wander into people's yards. I'm like, what the fuck are you talking? And they start sending me pictures of it. And I'm like, what? And it's him. And they start sending me pictures of it. And I'm like, what? And it's him. You're dead. Yes.

West Maryland Gators. Yeah. With your brother? No, just him. Oh. But for some reason, that made them name his son. And that's your half brother? Yeah.

So you've got this half brother and you've got a younger brother? Two half brothers, two half sisters. And they're all younger? Yeah. They're all younger. Oh, that's another weird thing. The closest in age to me is like a year and a half younger, Celeste, my sister Celeste. Nobody in northern Florida had the name Celeste

in the 70s. But then we realized we both had best friends that were brother and sister. So we played together as kids in the 70s. Oh, really? Yeah, so we knew each other. So was your mom just trying to hide this no i don't think she knew i think or she was just focused on the timing had to be kind of weird that's what i think but she would but was she in high school when she got pregnant she was that's a good question she was 18 when she got pregnant something yeah so and then she met a dude. Right. With you in there already.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think there was a break in the dude she thought was my dad. She had a fling with this dude. Ended up pregnant. I get it. But,

it's all kind of for debate. You know what I mean? But the siblings look kind of like you? Like you feel, did you feel like, it's, you know. Yeah. The oldest sister especially,

and she talks more than I do if you can fucking believe that. Any drunks? Drug addicts yeah yeah yeah really one of them yeah so now you can track that too and yeah that's crazy man yeah it's fucking it was did it make you feel better yeah it actually it it closed a lot of doors for me because like i mean, it could be booze, chocolate chip cookies. I'll get addicted to anything but fucking exercise. You know what I mean? Yeah, I'm trying to do the exercise.

Yeah, always trying to fill that void. Yeah, yeah. I'm not spiritually in line. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it did make me feel a lot better. They're great people. You know what I mean? Yeah.

We have different political views, but I don't really give a shit. You know what mean well it's not like you got to go there for thanksgiving right kind of a one-off glad we did this i'm out exactly good luck with everything dude we've had i had some pretty funny conversations with him because to me politics are team sports you know what i mean like sadly Sadly, that's true. I'm like, if Dog the Bounty Hunter ran against Donald Trump, I feel like all the Democrats would, you know, wave. Gotta be better. Yeah. All right, we'll back this guy.

Dog's fine. Yeah. We'll take him. Yeah, exactly. Anything but. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's a weird thing with that. I talked to a friend that used to be fairly normal, like regular kind of, you know, assuming assumed liberal kind of person, woman.

And now she's just kind of snapped somehow. And it was weird because she kept telling me it's like it's all game, man. It's all game for, you know, it's all about money, both sides. I'm like, OK. But then she's sort of like, but there's no climate change. I'm like, you know what? OK, if it's all a game, sounds like you're picking a side. Why that side?

Yeah, exactly. Weirdo. I think it's a lot of sensitive people who are pro, like victims can go either way. Yeah. You know, either they embrace it and they figure out how to, you know, they don't handle it in the way that they need taken care of or they become fucking just bullies. Yeah. You know what I mean?

100%. And it's broken people, man. Yeah. My dad literally, because my dad voted for him, but my dad. Gator? Or it's Gator's dad? Yeah. Sorry.

I'm sorry. Yeah. He voted for him and I was like, and I kind of just, you know, like I do. I'm like, I understand you don't want to vote for Dempster. I have a hard time understanding, you know, like I do, I'm like, I'm like, I, you know, I understand, you know, like you don't want to vote for them, but I have a hard time understanding why you vote for that dude.

And he literally goes, and he's a Christian and everything else. Keith, I hate him as a person. I go, well, he certainly doesn't bring anything to the fucking table politically. You know what I mean?

Outside of taking people's rights away and shit. And like, but that's the thing. I was talking to a teamster I work with and he was like, dude, I couldn't even believe. And he grew up an actor. He was born and raised in Hollywood, Mexican dude. And he goes, I just wanted somebody who wasn't a politician. I'm like, that dude's been famous for no reason since 1982.

He's the ultimate fucking politician. You know what I mean? Right. That's interesting. It's wild. It's complete hustle. Yeah. So when do you get to Covina?

How old are you? I own a skateboard shop there. Oh, when did I move there? 1982 when I was 12. Oh, that's when you left Florida? Yeah. Now, when did the drug start? The drug started about 80, well, booze started in 80, booze and weed, I guess, started in

84, 85. Yeah. I would do, you know, like booger sugar and shit if you had it. I was too young to really get it together. Right. I remember doing like Coke once and then Speed once. When you were like 12 or 11?

No, like 14, 13. Yeah, me too, yeah. When I was 15, I ate them. Black beauties? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I took a lot of LSD when I was 50. That's the only drug that never gave me a bad shake.

What? LSD. Oh, yeah? I've been arrested twice on it and when I was 50. That's the only drug that never gave me a bad shake. What? LSD. Oh, yeah? I've been arrested twice on it, and still it was fun. You know? In Covina? Yeah. You're tripping in Covina?

Yeah. By yourself or with people? Well, when I got arrested, I was in a jail with a bunch of people I didn't know. But other than that- But really, like tripping balls full on? Oh, yeah, yeah. One of them, I only started peaking as we like arrived. And I was with one of my friends, my friend Jason.

Yeah. And he was bummed. And I was like, better make the best of it. He was what? It's about to kick in. He was all bummed out, you know? Oh, right, right. Yeah.

So you're. Yeah. You better make the best of it. Yeah. I was like, because you know, like if it goes, my buddy had drank that morning glory. You know how LSD is. You've taken it, right? So, you know, you take it and take it and if you've never taken it,

it's like, you're always like, this shit's bunk. And then what? Yeah, and then all of a sudden, my buddy was like, went to take a piss one time, and he's like, this shit's bunk, and he said when he went. In jail? No, at home, in Orange County, he went to pee, and when he looked down, it looked like there was a hole

in his ball sack, so he started trying to juggle to try to keep the balls from falling out of it. And then he came out and he's like there was a hole in his ball sack, so he started trying to juggle to try to keep the balls from falling out of it. And then he came out and he's like, there's like a Nagel painting, and he said he was trying to cool it. And he's like staring at the Nagel painting, concentrating, and then the Nagel painting came alive all crazy, and he's like, fuck, and he looked away

and there was a ficus tree, and he said the ficus tree just like raises his hands all, I know, that chick's crazy, huh? So I didn't, you know? In the Nagel painting? Yeah. Pointing at it and shit and i'm like i just didn't want to go that route you know where it goes fucking bad oh right right where you don't know you can't quite see the line yeah yeah between what's real and what isn't yeah you're like three feet to the right of yourself

yeah yeah and you gotta you gotta sort of hold something together and so how did you make it a good trip in the holding cell? I just fucking, you know, I just like, because he was bummed. Jason was like, fuck, man. And I go, dude, don't be like that. We're going to be stuck here all night. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And I just tried to like focus on, you know what I mean? Like looking at cool shit or whatever. Right. There's not a lot in there, but like, you know. Were there other people in there? Yeah, there's other people in the hold. There's probably 15 or 20 of us, but I was just trying not to look at the cops, you know, through that window.

Yeah, yeah. I'm like, if I, I'm like, and I kept telling him, I'm like, don't look at them dudes. It's going to bum you out. You know, like try to look at the other, like the Cholos and shit or whatever. You know what I mean? I was like, fuck.

So that was the, was that the first time you got busted? No. The first time I got busted. You say that like I'm just one of those guys. I was seven, you know, and they just started taking me in. I started, let's see, I started getting arrested, the first thing I got arrested for was ditching school and I was probably 14.

Yeah. Because there was a thing in Southern California in the early 80s if you weren't in school. Truancy? Yeah, truancy. But they were really like enforcing it for a while. Yeah. It was weird. And then when I started drinking daily, truancy yeah truancy but they were really like enforcing it for a while yeah and then um when

i started drinking daily i'm gonna say it was about 15 or 16 yeah because when i started drinking more and like less smoking pot is when i started like because then you know like alcohol is the one where i really make the wrong decision right almost every time like i wake up and everybody's mad at me i'm that dude yeah and so i like you know i just sad you know frowning faces yeah like disappointed yeah like not once was it different either just like fuck i went one time i went to a wedding and it was out of town and we had to stay at a bed and breakfast or something yeah you know and everybody was sort of it was the night after the wedding after the party and everything uh and uh everyone's gathering at the bed and breakfast at the breakfast table and i'm sitting there and uh i'm just

everyone's just kind of looking at me with that kind of like and looking away i'm like what the fuck happened and then the woman comes in uh to the to the room who owns the place and goes, whose car is on the yard? So like, but they let me park. I don't know who, I had people in the car. They let me drive it. And I parked it. I parked it in the yard. But then like more things started to unfold.

I'd set my arm on fire, you know. That's amazing though. it was one of those things where i got to the wedding i don't know what the fuck i was thinking like i had all these uh atavans and yeah and i got to the wedding i just don't want to deal or something i remember taking shots of scotch and i took like two or three atavans and i just lost the whole fucking night yeah just there's just bits and pieces Then I smoked weed and it was fucking over. Yeah. I remember seeing my arm on fire at the table where we were eating

because I'd stuck it in a candle, but then I don't know really how it happened. And the car was in the yard. No one was dead. No one was dead except your reputation. It's just like to know that you were that embarrassing you know like my yeah i was married at the time to my first wife and she was embarrassed and i'm like what the fuck someone should have stopped me i was a bridge burner too i was like i remember

one time we were all fucked up at this bar whatever and we go back to this i don't know well i'm like i was like you are like i remembered playing pool at some point but i i woke up and had no fucking i kind of like yours i woke up and i didn't know where i was but this was fucked up because i wake up and i'm like on the floor yeah and there's like really long like shag carpet and this is in like the early 90s so it's you know yeah like i wake up and i'm like fuck this is like long carpet so i get up and i'm like in the bedroom i'm in doesn't look familiar so i look out the back window and i'm like, fuck, this is like long carpet. So I get up and I'm like, and the bedroom I'm in doesn't look familiar. So I look out the back window and I'm like, fuck, you know, I'm like, it doesn't, I'm like, where am I?

I could see like a hillside. And so then I opened the door and I can hear people talking down the end of the hall. But you know, it's like, I'm like, fuck, you know, everybody's always mad at me when I am like this. So I'm like, shit, I'm trying to think of who's going to be mad. Am I going to get yelled at? Yeah. And then I'm like, so I'm waiting it out. I mean, for like four, I have a terrible hangover. I'm trying to think of who's gonna be mad, am I gonna get yelled at? And then I'm like, so I'm waiting it out.

I mean for like four, I have a terrible hangover, I'm like fuck, and then I open the door again and I can hear people talking and then I'm like fuck it. So I start sneaking out and I'm looking at the family photos in the hallway trying to identify, you know, like is that Mark as a kid? You know what I mean, like trying to picture that shit. Is it anyone I know?

Yeah, and I'm like, so finally it wasn't and I'm like fuck it, so I'm like. So I just yeah yeah and i'm like so finally it wasn't and i'm like fuck it so i'm like so i just walked down and i'm just thinking somebody's mom or something is gonna and i'm like in fucking lahabra or somewhere in like orange county and right when i get to the end of the hallway it's my friend laurie and this dude just sitting there at the ends of two couches with a dial phone yeah and right when i end they both look up with a giant pupil it's like you know where to get any blow? I'm like no but is anybody mad at me?

You know what I mean? I'm like fuck it's like 8 in the morning. I'm like I gotta get home. That is just the worst where people are looking for blow at 8 in the morning. It's the worst.

It's never a good moment. No. We're still going. Yeah. And you're always whenever you get in that position it's always with the dude

you like the least. Yeah. And then the day is fucked and you're just whenever you get in that position it's always with the dude you like the least yeah and then the day is fucked and you're just kind of holding up this you're just staying above something that you know you just dip below it's gonna be like oh my entire week's fucked up it's everything is fucked so okay so you're getting arrested for truancy and then like because like i want to get to this like when did you own a surfboard shop? Oh, I own a skateboard shop, but I own, it's called the Pawn Shop and it was called the Outhouse Surf and Skate

in the 70s and 80s and 90s. In Covina? Yeah, and then we opened one about 10 years ago. It's still open? Yeah. It doesn't make any money, but it's good for the kids and shit. Like it's never profited.

But when do you get in real trouble? When I get in real trouble was when the the speed thing came so basically all right yeah i'm no conspiracy theorist but just hear me out so there's a 7-eleven where you could drive through this in the 80s and 90s in covina yeah and buy weed like anybody could just drive through and some guy came through there one day and asked these two dudes are selling weed. He bought weed from them. He goes, hey, you guys like Speed? I'll show you how to make it. So this guy started show, he showed these two dudes how to make it.

Kids? Yeah, well, 19, 20. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And the guy was about 35. Yeah. He taught, this guy Richie and this guy Nick, he taught them how to make it. Yeah.

And then they were trying to be secretive about it you know yeah and and he would encourage them like no show fucking your friends it'll take the heat off of us this kind of shit yeah so they show like this other two dudes and then these other two dudes how to make bathtub crank yeah yeah but like it i'm telling you mark it went i mean the timeline to me it seemed like in six months everybody was making it was probably about two or three years but i'm talking like it, I'm telling you, Mark, it went, I mean, the timeline, to me, it seemed like in six months, everybody was making it was probably about two or three years. But I'm talking like it was, there was so many people making it that they raided that house and the house behind it and caught both people making it at the same time. Yeah.

And, um. So what's the conspiracy? Well, the conspiracy, here's the, one day we were standing in front of there. And where, the 7-Eleven? No, the house where they're making it. And I saw the guy who taught him how to make it and granted i was fucking spun like a research monkey but i was like i looked at that dude and i looked at um a friend of ours i think you know him too but i looked at jimmy and i go who fucking knows that dude right yeah and he goes who the i can't

i can't remember they called him the matthiah i'm not even kidding you he goes the matthiah hey he's cool i go that's not what i'm asking i go where'd he go yeah we all went to high school and junior high together you know rich state's nicky sister all this i go where did that motherfucker come from because he's fucking ruined everything every mom's like vacuuming at three in the morning you know what i mean the whole fucking neighborhood's awake nine months out of the year it was fucked and that guy caused it you know what i mean like and it just went from there you know and did anyone find out oh do you know who that guy was i never found out but he wasn't from there no wild he just came in like a devil and just undermined the entire social fabric of

the town yes i'm telling you dude in you like one time I was in a Lucky Market, it was like a Vons or whatever, and the dude, I didn't really know much about it. I knew people were doing it, but the guy in front of me is buying probably like 60 boxes of Sudafed. Right. And the only thing on the fucking conveyor belt

is 60 boxes of Sudafed and a motorcycle helmet. You know what I mean? Got a bad cold. Yeah. You're gonna ride it out. But the whole fuck, everything was like that. I'm like, you know what I mean? I'm like. Got a bad cold. Yeah. I'm like. You're gonna ride it out. And he's, but the whole fuck, everything was like that. People trying to buy pills and make that shit and.

You never made it? I would help people make it, you know? I didn't physically make it, but I would like, I think I've told you this before, but I would have the job of keeping everybody awake. Yeah. You know, cause people start like, and my friend Diane would be like in the back bedroom

cooking it, so she'd have a flask and this shit set up, right? Yeah. And then this other guy, this is after I got out of prison, it was a different thing of distilling it, which is after somebody's done making it, you give it to this person to distill it,

which, you know, it was like another thing with condensers. I don't really know much about chemistry, but they were doing that shit, and like I would have to go get ice, and you know, it was like another thing with condensers. I don't really know much about chemistry, but they were doing that shit. And like, I would have to go get ice and you know what I mean? And like get food or whatever. And then, cause we'd be there for days at a time. Right. And it would usually be a random house,

like in Ontario or fucking, you know, Corona or whatever. Yeah. And this house in particular was in Ontario on on a street called tam o'shanter that's the name of the street yeah the only reason that's because i'm like who in the fuck name is the street tam o'shanter but i had been at that house before i went to prison and she picked me up there and then when i got out of prison a year and a half later we're going there and i don't know shit about ontario but she goes hey we're gonna go to this house and do it and i some would it just look odd to me i'd only been there once but I go please tell me this fucking house isn't on Tam O'Shanner

she goes yeah it is I go dude you picked me up from here it was fucking hot then yeah you know that's a year and a half ago I'm like we're really gonna be fucked you know and we're there and my job's keeping her awake and shit but I basically I fell asleep and the girl who lived there woke me up right and she's like keith there's a fire or some shit and i wake up i'm sleeping on a bed and when i open my eyes from her waking up it just looks like lavender smoke you know above me yeah and so i sat up you know just out of habit when i sat into it not only could you not breathe but it pulled the oxygen out of your lungs oh my god so it's like like you couldn't yeah and i dropped her the floor but now the lady who lives there is fucking crawling opening the windows but i'm chasing her closing the windows we're literally arguing like army

crawling through the house you don't want to get busted yeah i don't want to get busted i'm like turn on the fucking fans in the kitchen in the bathroom and it was a fucking nightmare because those houses were close together and it was just thick you couldn't see through the smoke it was a thick lavender smoke like purple it was awful so all right so the mathiah is ruining the town yeah and you're starting to do it i started doing it and then i started selling it yeah in town yeah but was like everybody selling it a lot of people were selling it but i would sell it like i would because i like you know i run pretty high octane so i'm like up all the time and i just knew everybody in that town then i started selling it to just a handful of people in in hollywood it was really the same

crowd um which this is that yellow shit no this is the glass shit there was mostly the yellow shit was around yeah but that was the thing with hollywood ho Hollywood, the only thing you'd find was that yellow shit. And where out in the San Gabriel Valley, you would have the glass, which is what everybody wanted. So I would sell it to this one guy who lived in Beverly Hills and then another guy lived in not Beachwood Canyon, but that other one. The glass was good because you could smoke it.

You could smoke it, yeah. Yeah, the yellow shit was useless. No, I don't think you could smoke that yellow shit could smoke it, yeah. Yeah, the yellow shit was useless. No, I don't think you could smoke that yellow shit. I can't imagine. It was like crunchy. Yeah, and it smelled. Do you remember that? Like kerosene or something. Yeah.

It was like snort. Kerosene. Yeah, you snort gasoline. You could take, you're like, there was no way to just rationalize it being good in any way. No. Because like you'd snort it and be like, that's like engine shit.

That stuff makes people weird too. i walked in this house one time really is there some variables there's a spectrum of behavior on the yellow crank versus the good glass stuff do you remember how the yellow crank would make you have like instant like like you remember you'd get like sores and shit from it? Yeah. That was what I mean. I don't know if I got that far in. I didn't do that that often, you know, and that's just a case of it not being clean. But when I did do it, like I could,

I literally felt like my hair stood up. Like, oh yeah, yeah. But I walked in the house, this one woman who's like, you know, people have their thing, like cleaning the car or fucking, you know, painting the house or whatever and drawing a maze yeah exactly this one lady her thing she liked to clean people's ears and i would never fucking go near she had like a little kit and shit and i had done some of that shit and her boyfriend's this gnarly dude named nick that we had grown up he's older than us but he was fucking gnarly and i I walked into this dope house one time,

and this fucking dude, I could see it in his face, his head sideways like this, and she's cleaning his ears out with like little, dude, like tweezers and all this shit. And he's so bummed, but he's just so scared of Nick he won't say anything. And for probably two and a half hours, I was just like, fuck, better him than me. It was fucking cleaning a man's ears.

Just working his head for two and a half hours? Because he was afraid of the dude? The boyfriend. Yeah. It was cleaning a man's ears. Just working his head for two and a half hours? Yes. Because he was afraid of the dude? The boyfriend, yeah. Good times. Yeah. But so okay, so you're selling it, you're selling the glass,

you're running down here up all night. Yeah, and then I start like, I got into a fight with a guy and he got hurt and I got arrested for that and then i went to the county jail for well i was sentenced a year in the county jail you do about five months at that time it's like 91 in county the la county yeah where was that is that down yeah on bauchet street downtown right by the twin towers but yeah and that was that was your first real stretch yeah that was about five months but that jail is like the Terminator.

It's fucked up. It's the worst jail I've ever been to. And I've been to a lot of fucked up ones, but that one's worse than any prison I've ever been to. Why? How? It's just fucking dirty. You know what I mean?

It's not taken care of. It smells like a 24-hour fitness shower. You know what I mean? It's not like an Equinox shower. But how did you adjust? being popped a bunch of times when you're a kid and not you never went to uh how what was the longest time were you in juvenile too yeah i was in juvenile hall for about five months one time for what uh same thing i got in a fight and um i was drunk and got in a fight and uh beat some guy up and then i but that one wasn't a felony or anything it was just you know what like getting in a fight and beat some guy up. But that one wasn't a felony or anything.

It was just getting in a fight. Because you were a kid? Well, yeah. My mom was like, I fucking can't handle him. You know what I mean? They probably wouldn't have sent me to jail. So you were out of control? Out of control, yeah.

And I couldn't stop drinking. You know what I mean? So what do you track that to? Do you remember the feelings? I remember the feelings of, I just don't feel comfortable in my own skin. Right. Unless I'm drinking.

Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. And the fighting thing, it was just, you just had to fight? It's really, I think it's really like booze related. You know what I mean? Like, but it's like, I wouldn't like, I've never like, I don't think I've ever been in a fight when I wasn't drunk.

Yeah. You know, not even when I was like on drugs. Right. You know what I mean? It's just, when you drink you drink it's like that's why you hear like when you're you'll be in prison with a dude who looks like fucking you know like ted copple or something you know what the fuck are you doing here he's like i was drunk driving and fucking killed a family yeah yeah because the booze is where you make the fucking really bad terrible decisions you know when somebody ends up dead yeah that's that's true yeah you know but like when you okay so when you get sent for the first time because i didn't never get arrested yeah but when you get sent to like a real jail yeah i mean what's in your head all

the all the horror stories like how do you fucking handle yourself day one i get so day one in juvenile hall which i'm not gonna lie i mean i was fucking scared i was like oh shit you know because you just know shit like from that Sean Penn movie, Bad Boys or whatever, you know? And you're young, so it's weird. There's a lot of testosterone when you're 15 to 18. And the interesting thing about it is when you're going to juvenile hall and shit,

so I get there and it's like, you know, it's like majority is, you know, there's not a ton of white people in there yeah um but there's it's where people still in juvent in the juvenile system people gangbang and what i mean by that is if somebody comes in yeah it's a crip a dude who's a blood might be like where you from right and they might fight right then but it's usually over with right same thing with the hispanic gangs or whatever right yeah but it's always over after. Right. Same thing with the Hispanic gangs or whatever, right? Yeah. But it's always over after that. It's weird because you are just kids.

Right. You know what I mean? It's a weird thing. And everybody kind of lives communally, and there's no racism or any of that bullshit like there is when you're an adult, you know? Like you don't have to, it's really, when you become, when you're an adult

and you start going, it's really fucked up. Yeah. So it's weird. There's a lot of camaraderie. Like there's no like, you know, nobody got raped or anything like that. Yeah.

And I've been in, you know, Los Padrinos, Central, all the ones in LA County. And there was no. You were a regular? Yeah.

I've been, yeah, I was in and out of there for about, you know, I mean, I probably did maybe 15. Well,

you know, I would go to juvenile hall for a few months and they'd send me to a boy's home. So I was in a boy's home in Chino called Boys Republic, same one Steve McQueen was in. And then I was in Boys Republic in Silver Lake,

which is on Redcliffe, you know where that is? Street next to Mitchell Terena? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That one, still there, it's a huge property. And there we went to public school, so we went to school at Marshall, this is in 1987. And the boys' homes were almost just like group homes. Right.

You know what I mean? The one in Chino is like its own city. Yeah. But the one in- Didn't have a jail vibe? No, not at all. Yeah. But it's people from all over the state.

That would be the difference. Oh, okay. As opposed to just the county. Yeah. So then, so once, you know, I'm doing like, I'd been to camp and juvenile hall and shit. So it's weird. Once you're in there for a few days,

you're not really scared. Cause you realize like, yeah, you might have to get in a fight or something, but unless you go to like the youth authority, which is like the young prison. Yeah. Nobody's getting stabbed or, you know, fistfights or whatever.

Right, right. When you, but when you go to that county jail, the LA County jail, it's like, there's a fucking dorm there, Mark, that is the size of a football field. I mean, but when you go to that county jail, the LA County Jail, it's like, there's a fucking dorm there, Mark, that is the size of a football field. I mean, it's not quite, but it's so fucking big. When I say dorm, whatever you're picturing, it's probably fucking 10 times that size. It's so big that you can't even see to the back of it.

So what, it's like cots? Yeah, bunk beds. Oh. Three high, like the Three Stooges. Three high bunk beds for a full football field? Yeah, for probably, honestly, probably a half of a football field. It's fucking enormous. Oh, my God.

Like half of a high school football field. And it's got that weird in jail vibe. Yes, 100%. All of it, like that weird frenetic kind of horror show. Yeah, it's a fucking horror show. I just know that because I did a show once at a women's prison, and we had to go through security and everything else and do all that and and perform for the the prisoners and you just feel that the community whatever the community is in there yeah it's electric with horror yeah

you know like it's just like well i don't know there's a whole different vibe in here man yeah that's a good way to explain it it's like a system that you do not want to be part of. Yeah. I mean, you feel it, and you feel the hierarchy, and you can feel the weight of it. I was, like, fucking devastated. That's a great way to explain it. And it's like, people don't realize, but even as a visitor, you want to get the fuck out, right? Yeah, because you're like, there's something going on in here, and it's really fucking organized, and it's really scary.

It is organized. It's really fucking organized and it's really scary. It is organized. There's, when you like, when you're in the county jail, you know, you're just, to be honest, like, you're just like, fuck it, man. I hope I get to prison soon. You know what I mean? It's that fucked up. I mean, the food's fucking.

You just want to get out of there. It's awful. Yeah. One time we had spaghetti. Yeah. And it had, we, you know, we get the spaghetti and it's got bones in it. I'm like, I look at my friend, I'm like, there's fucking bones in the spaghetti. And what had happened is, cause the food's all like just donated and i guess they got i don't know if it was sardines or anchovies but one of those they got a bunch of those they just

fucking threw them the whole things in the spaghetti yeah you know which it's made in like they have pots that look like almost like hot tubs these big metal hot tubs are huge and then so that was the that was a this is a big bad memory from jail is the spaghetti bone yeah having a fucking fight you know i'm like i'm a white dude so we're really outnumbered you know but like you have to fight for your shoes because somebody's you know what i mean like really if you have decent shoes you know i mean oh really yeah i mean shoes you come in with yeah the ones you wear because at that you know you would wear your own shoes in there and someone would want them a lot of the time which to be honest with you like they

weren't real nice shoes they were yeah so you had so you had to fight a lot yeah well you'll have to fight for your shoes you know and like they might end up taking them like i think i kept mine i can't remember they might have taken but i had to fight for him just to show i'm not you know not a coward or whatever yeah but then you move on because you're you're definitely prey in the county jail if you're a white dude you know because the numbers are so small you you move on because you're definitely prey in the county jail if you're a white dude, you know? Because the numbers are so small. You know what I mean? You're probably 6% of the population.

Right. And there's also a lot of racial tension. Between Mexicans and- Blacks and Hispanics. Yeah. Yeah. And then, it's mostly the Hispanics picking on the whites.

Not the- Oh, really? Yeah, and not all of them, but the majority of them. So then when you get to the prison, here's the, ready for this? Yeah. So you can literally be on a bus with a dude who tried to take your shoes to go into prison,

and when you get to that prison, now you're allies with that guy. Right. Because- You have a history? No, it's just that's the system. When you get to the prison system, the Southern Mexicans, so Bakersfield to San Diego, and the whites run together.

Northern Mexicans and the blacks run together. So anybody above Bakersfield all the way to Crescent City, right? Yeah. But this is all shit kept in, you know, it's how the cops want to keep it segregated. Yeah. And everybody hating it. It's the only way they can control it, you know?

Because if everybody united, like I don't know if you saw in the news they did like two years ago they went on a hunger strike yeah together and they got what the fuck they wanted because if they merge as a group and every prisoner goes out the cops don't have a chance you know right but what about the violence and the raping and all that stuff there so in prison and i mean i've you know i've been to chino a couple of times. I've been to Delano. I've been to Pelican Bay, which is the worst fucking prison, I think. I've been to- Where did you have time to do anything else?

It sounds like this is a lot of time. It wasn't a lot of time. I mean, I've only done, my first term I did 14 months. The second time- For the fighting? Yeah. Well, the fighting and when I got caught for violating probation, I had a bunch of speed and a loaded pistol. So that was a new charge.

So I got two years for that. And I already had two years for the assault prior. Right. So I had to do. They'd written you off as just like a garbage person. Sure. Yeah. This guy's not leaving the system.

Yeah. I never got a chance to go to treatment or any of that. You know, because I started with a violent crime. Right. If I would have started with a possession or something, maybe everything would have turned out better, you know, earlier on. Have you been able to make amends to the people that you... I have one left. Oh, a guy you beat up?

Yeah, only one. It's not happening? No, I'm working on it right now. Oh, wow. Just working on finding him. At 22 years old, working on finding it? Yeah. You know who it is.

I can't figure out his last name, but my friend knows his cousin or something. It's pretty weird. His name's Chris, but I fucking don't know his last name. Okay, so you've been to Chino and Pelican Bay's bad. Yeah. What were you going to tell me about the nature of it? Oh, well, Pelican Bay's the only one

where I got there in the middle of the night so everybody's asleep and it's like you're talking about. There's nobody awake, right? Maybe four people in the whole thing. But it's exactly what you're talking about. We pulled in and I literally, I was like, I had goosebumps, I was like, it is fucking going down here.

You know what I mean? I'm like, I could tell, you're like, there's motherfuckers getting killed here. You know, you could just feel it. And nobody's even awake. But you could feel it the minute you pulled in the yard. So in there, it becomes, and it's a very weird, because you have to stick with your own race,

and I'm not fucking racist. You know what I mean? You just have to? Yeah. A lot of people are in that position. There's a lot of black dudes, a lot of Mexican dudes. None of us want to fucking have to stick to ourselves, but we do. It's just the way it to? Yeah. A lot of people are in that position. You know, like there's a lot of black dudes, a lot of Mexican dudes. None of us want to fucking have to stick to ourselves, but we do. Yeah.

It's just the way it is. Yeah. It's been that way, you know, I guess since the 50s. Right. From my understanding. But you're not necessarily, you don't have to be vocal or get a swastika tattoo. No. And I'll tell you the interesting thing is I've always said like, like you don't hear

like, you know, if you hear somebody like dropping n-bombs or you know calling somebody a cracker or whatever from my experience they've always got something to hide oh yeah yeah like like one time this dude who was like he had the swastikas and all this shit and i i remember i was like this motherfucker ain't right there's something not right about him because he would talk so much right on the surface it's not right but you're saying there's a deeper wrong yeah yeah then the swastika you know i'm like he's hiding something and sure as shit like he paroled everybody like had this big meal for him like all right brother all this bullshit and he left and the cop had the news on and turned the tv toward you know in the tower yeah and it was him and it was like convicted pedophile blah blah blah got out of

you know and i'm like fuck i knew it you know like so he was hiding that so that you were killed in prison yeah the swastika is the whole you know i mean loud mouth you know like because people you know everybody's really respectful of each other in there and nobody uh i'm not saying people don't get raped but of all the i mean i probably, not that much, like 14 months the first time, 12 months the second time, and six months the third time. Yeah. And then that five months in the county,

that's the total time I've done. Yeah. So whatever that is, like about three years. But nobody in any of those places I was in ever got raped. You know what I mean? Yeah.

There's, there is a, there's a, to your knowledge. To my knowledge, yeah. I mean, there's a gay culture in there.

Sure. There's quite a few like, you know, trans people or gay people or whatever. And they have their, they're in their own group or whatever, you know. And they do their own thing. But they're treated with respect as well. Sure. You know, it's like everybody, you all respect everybody because, you know, when there's a knife in the hand, everybody's a man. You know what I mean? Like, it's like. Right like everybody bleeds the same yeah yeah yeah but it's you learn

like it's weird um it's a really fucked up system you know and out of everybody i met and i'm gonna it's definitely thousands of people that i've been in prison literally yeah and only two of them didn't drink or do drugs. To get in there? Alcoholically. Only two. Yep. To get into prison.

Yeah, you know, either the crime was behind it. Right, right. I mean, it's not like, they're not like a sober dude, you know. Well, that's what I used to say when people want to get sober. I said, the thing is, is that it's not necessarily about, you know, the drug or the drink. It's like, you know, it just increases your odds exponentially of being in some fucked up situation yeah out of your control whether you're buying the drugs whether it's who you're hanging out with whether you're in a car with a fucking weirdo you don't like it's just as soon as you start doing that shit you just add a bunch of

possibilities none of them good yeah to get fucked you know what i mean yeah like it's just i i just remember being on the road and being in hotel rooms just being like you know who's the guy with the eye patch yeah who the fuck are these people man i just is that the guy i bought the drugs from did he bring people where's my shit you know like and he's just like how do you get out oh man there's always an old guy named Pops involved. You know? Oh, yeah, yeah. You're like, who the fuck is Pops?

Yeah, he's in the front room. Yeah. Right, and then you walk back to Junior's. Yeah. Yeah, it's a fucking family affair. But yeah, Pops told me to come back. Are you Junior? Yeah, who the fuck are you?

I'm the guy buying the drugs? Yes. Yeah, man. fuck are you i'm the guy buying the drugs yes yeah man so okay so when did how did you decide to get sober though uh i so i paroled in 19 the end of 97 97 yeah and i paroled for the last well i paroled and i was out for about 10 months and i was i'm gonna say i was doing good in that i was only drinking like after work yeah where were you working i was uh i saw fireplaces i was i'm gonna say i was doing good in that i was only drinking like after work yeah where were you working i was a i saw fireplaces i was a sheet metal worker you saw fireplaces yeah but you know the pre-fat not the not that brick one no yeah just working yeah and i was doing that and i would just drink after work and then on the weekend i would drink quite a bit

and i would do coke sometimes with the cholo next door this older cholo lived next door and and then but I was not hanging out

with anybody I was just you know like hanging out with my girlfriend who I live with and doing my thing and eventually you know how it goes

it's like fuck I was at my buddy's house and he was doing crank and I was like do you have any more of that and he's like fuck you shouldn't be doing this

and I'm like and do you have any more of that? And he's like, fuck, you shouldn't be doing this. And I'm like, and I did that and then. This is the exponential part of this? I went on a 24 day run, okay, stopped, stopped doing speed and only drank and smoked weed for six days until I had to test so it would be clean. Gave the test, started doing speed again for 24 days, stopped, only drank and smoked weed for six days, and the morning of the fucking, I made it all six days,

I was just short a few hours, and I fucked up and started doing the speed, and when I went to, or I didn't even go to test, I called my parole, or my parole officer called me, he goes, I know you're loaded, do you wanna run, you want me to catch you, or you wanna turn yourself in? And I was kinda like, fuck, i'll turn myself in well in the meantime i've been that's he asked you those questions yeah swear to god he told the minute

i got out this is how it works just you know if anybody's list is like when you get out it's not like the parole officer is not like trying to help you out he's like i got there and he goes you know i'd been gone for eight months or something he's like all right just so you know it takes six days now to get methamphetamine out of your system not three anymore like cocaine you know they give you all the shit you know what you're dealing with and there's also a guy at the uh ballroom park because they that's how they want the best for you they're trying to give you a leg up yeah exactly here's your leg up six days it takes yeah yeah if you want it clean yeah but that's

what i mean they don't give a fuck it's a system you know designed to keep you in there and if you have any kind of drinking or drug problem you'll you'll go back yeah and then for 110 bucks the guy who picked up the piss test would swap your piss out uh-huh some cholo from azusa told me that yeah he knew the dude and you give him 100 so you could turn in a dirty if you paid this dude 110 bucks he'd swap him out oh but so i anyway i kept my my friend got out of prison he was a very serious dude i think you might have met him a long time ago with the thing but he had gotten out and you know he had he'd been in prison for 11 years so the speed thing happened while he was in there yeah because you know it was much bigger than the cocaine thing is yeah because cheap yeah it was cheap and it's like and fuck you know like instead of being high for 20 minutes you're high for 24 hours yeah days days yeah so he

gets out and he's a fucking hardened criminal and dude he literally i swear to god he he looked at somebody else like going by like you know some fucking dude on a three like an an adult on a three-wheeled bicycle you know going down the street and he looked at me he's like what the fuck is going on here and i'm like everybody's doing speed you know but i'm like all fucking sweaty everybody's doing speed you know and he's like but i kept i kept robbing people right like drug dealers and i didn't when was this 90 like after you're out've been out 10 months. While you're doing chimneys? You're robbing people? Well, I couldn't show up for work anymore.

You know how that goes. Oh, right. And I was just, so I was just in the speed mix. Oh, for those 24 day peace periods? Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't that long. It was only, like I said, maybe two months.

Yeah. The run lasted. But he had told me, because I was so out of control, you know, like scratching my nose and pulling my, like, I look like that, if you watch the world series like that that fucking um houston astros coach you know what i mean like where he's like pinching his nose pulling his ear all that i was doing that all the time and sweaty signaling satan yes exactly i'm coming in exactly come home satan exactly that's exactly what the fuck i was doing and um fuck it and i mean i went to this house to sell these people i've been selling these people drugs

i got there and this guy mark i come in and he just goes jesus christ man you gotta lay off of that shit i mean i'm selling it to him and he's like you are fucked up the worst and i feel like i'm being a service you know but he's bumming me out for you to judge me yeah here's your shit i'm the one with the money yeah so then my buddy had told me he goes hey he goes you ever thought about going into a program and i i i hadn't you know we had friends who when you say you're robbing people just houses yeah like uh like these this drug dealer couple had left this safe at this house i cracked into the not like i'm a safe cracker. Let me rephrase that. Yeah.

It's a pretty shitty, like fireproof safe. Like you could do it with a hammer. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. I wish it was that glamorous. Yeah. But that kind of shit.

And then like, you know, not paying drug deals. But I was doing it because I knew people knew how close him and I were. Who? You and the 11 year, the hardened criminal? Yeah. And everybody in the whole fucking San Gabriel Valley is scared of him. Yeah, for good fucking reason, you know? But it was just one of those things, you know what I mean?

Right. You know, where they're like, I don't know. It's like if I'm thinking like, man, I sure am fucking mad at you, Mark, but you're hanging out with this fucking Navy SEAL all the time. It's like the ghetto version of a Navy SEAL. Sure, yeah, but the problem with that is as soon as that guy goes back to jail, you're fucked. I'm fucked, yeah.

Yeah, but you know, I'm on speed, so I'm just fucking winging it. But they're complaining to him, and he asked me if I wanted to go to a program, and I said no, and he goes, you gotta quit doing that shit. I said I would, speed only. He said he didn't care if I drank or smoked weed, but I was too scandalous. And I told him I'd quit on a Thursday.

He came to my house on a friday i was loaded and then i walked in a dope i knew i was in trouble but i walked into a dope house later and two guys from his neighborhood they're cholos yeah two guys from his neighborhood just beat the fuck out of me and like i mean i touched every wall of the living room they robbed me i got everything handed back to me and then he showed up your buddy yeah he goes you ready to go into a program so this is the his intro that was my intervention yeah all up like up lip loose teeth and yeah and i went there and i guess the end of 98 and then i was just like i it that's a very easy place for me because i'm used to doing time and stuff.

You know, there's a regiment. So it's really easy if you've been doing time. It's the ideal place. Yeah. You know. And it worked? It worked because it was like we were talking about earlier. Like I've always got on with you.

And people that laugh a lot, I get on good with. Yeah. I fucking stay dummy free. I don't fuck with anybody who's miserable or complaining about fucking shit all the time. Because I know where that's going to end up. And don't want to be like that yeah right i mean where does that end up loaded oh no all right i see what you're saying i mean for me it usually ends up back in prison but right so you're saying that that mindset of like you know i'm fucked or fuck

that guy like if you don't process the resentments or work your steps enough to where you you can't get out from under that shit you got no options at some point for sure yeah i think if you're not helping other people i think you're fucked yeah yeah you know that's just what i've seen yeah you know yeah and but that's practical stuff yeah simple stuff yeah so you were never that guy really in recovery no no i mean i'll do anything for anybody I can to help them get off drugs or alcohol, anybody. But you learned early on that that is the ticket to staying sober.

Yeah, and I think it's a fairly easy one. You know, I mean, I'm sure you have too. We always have friends who are like, it's a cult. I'm like, that's a cheap fucking cult. You know what I mean? The best one I heard was that some guy, he told his sponsor that he was being brainwashed. And his sponsor says, well, maybe your brain needs washing.

That's fucking true, though. It is true. You hear shit from new dudes like that. Like, there's these, who cares? The fucking thing is, it's like, it is such, what I've learned over time is that, you know, all that shit is really just excuses. That when people say that's a disease talking it clearly is it's like fine you're right it's a cult that costs no money at all you can do whatever the fuck you want it yeah you know yeah okay you're right yeah maybe you should find something else well also because

they're like it's those dudes you know like you hear like the dudes who are like that you're like and you know you're like fuck man two ago, you were sucking dicks for cocaine. You know what I mean? Now you're mad that you're in a cult of sober people because they pray at the end. It's like, I never. But the fucked up thing, the people that really survive it, if they're not too belligerent,

it's like I know there's a lot of things in the program I don't do. And I fight it and I push back. And I get, for years, I was just like, fuck the program i don't do yeah and you know and i fight it and i push back and i you know and i get you know for years i was just like fuck this i don't want to do this but but you also realize eventually it's like well the shit here i can use yeah that's the best advice take what you can use leave the rest right yeah and that's that you know you can't work it perfectly or whatever and you know what the fucked up thing is it doesn't work for most people yeah you know that most you're right about it doesn't work for most people yeah you know that most you're right about that like that's just like it there's no myth to it and someone called me out on that recently in that like you should say that there's other ways to get over i

don't care how you get sober this just happened i just went old school you know and in in and that's just the way it worked out for me but there's other ways to do it yeah the success rate on any of them who knows long term a lot of people come into aa and they realize that they were just you know that they just had a problem for a while fucking lucky them yeah you know but i'm just not that way because if i think about it now it's like there's no reason not to just keep doing whatever it is yeah like you know what i mean it's like why would i start that if i wasn't gonna finish it's still available yeah you know yeah when you think like that people well people like you and i it's

like you know like if something running out that's not enough reason to stop you know what i mean like there is no more hold on there's got to be some more somewhere or a new thing is there a new thing is there anything like it? Something similar some guy has? All right. So how does it, so you're sober and I see you for years and obviously you're doing the service and doing everything else, but how do you get from prison to wardrobe? Like when I heard you were a wardrobe guy, I'm like, what's it? I don't know that guy at all.

And then I started to notice, like, he does dress pretty snappy. I fucking, you know, I started as a production assistant, which you can imagine, like, I mean, coming where I'm from, you know, if you're from Covina, like, I've made $175 a day on a flat.

On a flat? Yeah. So, like, no overtime. This is in 99 or whatever, 2000. But I was also fresh in the program, so I was doing anything, whatever's in front of me. And you just like someone, you met someone in show business

and they told you this is a gig that's there you can do? Yeah, my friend's sister produced commercials or music videos. I started doing that and then I'm like, and I've always been into, well, number one, like in the 80s I was a punker, so I did a lot of thrift shopping. And then when I like, and I've always been into, well, number one, like in the 80s, I was a punker, so I did a lot of thrift shopping. And then when I was doing speed, I'd like to,

I've spent more than eight hours at a single yard sale before. So I know literally I'm not. So you were the guy that the people who own the house were in the house going like, what's he doing? Can we get him? Dude, one time we, fuck, so we pull up at this house. It's a Thursday. Yeah.

The best I can explain it to you is. It was a yard sale? It was a yard sale, it's a Thursday. The best I can explain it to you is. It was a yard sale? It was a yard sale but on a Thursday. And literally we pulled up in front of it, me and my friend Simone, and I, Mark, on my mother's eyes, I literally pulled up in front of there, I'm sweaty and high and shit, and I go, I literally was like, I am the luckiest man in the world,

because this is a Thursday yard sale, nobody knows about it, I'm the only one here. And they get out, and I start to walk up,'s an old lady and like a little girl who's probably like 10 they're just sitting there chatting yeah start buying shit and I mean I am fucking sweaty and high and I look and in the back I'm always looking for like old Hawaiian shirts and shit I look in the back of the garage and there's a perlator hat like on a vice right old vice probably from the 50s. And I look and the old lady had told me she sold the house and I go,

her husband had passed away, I go, what about his vice? And she goes, I don't know, they'll probably just tear it down. I go, what? She goes, they'll tear it, I go, they can't fucking have his vice. I just got in that thing.

I buy like two pairs of pliers from her that are probably from the 60s. Two pairs of pliers. And dude, I went back in that garage and I was there for six hours. two pairs of pliers from her that are probably from the 60s yeah two pairs of pliers and dude i went back in that garage and i was there for six hours fucking with everything i had taking that vase off with not even a wrench two pairs of pliers my friend somebody's like can i take the car i'm like go ahead dude he he was gone i had to page him to come back and i got the whole vice off and just gave it to her and left she was probably like what the fuck is wrong there's just

sweat and sawdust everywhere, you know? And you thought you'd like, you're like, I helped her out. Yeah. I was like. Look what I did for you. Isn't she lucky? Yeah, I was like,

fuck, she's so lucky I came here. You didn't even take the vice. No. I bought the shirt off a dude's back at a yard until another time. So you were kind of, that was your thing? Yeah.

You like shopping for stuff. Yeah, I like costumes. So you started as a PA and then you were wardrobe PA? I was a wardrobe PA were kind of that was your thing yeah you like shopping for stuff yeah i like costumes so so you started as a pa and then how then you were wardrobe pa i was a wardrobe pa and then i i became a you know like a uh a costume like a wardrobe assistant for probably two years and then i became a you know costume designer and a stylist about probably about a year later but also it's like a lot of principles i'm just just like, I don't complain, I'll do whatever they ask. You know what I mean?

And when I was an assistant, I think I had a big advantage because there's not that many straight dudes who want to do it. Yeah. And you know, like if you're doing something with armor and shit, like you can carry a lot of that shit.

So I worked all the time. And then I became the boss and I've been doing that for probably 17 years, I guess now. You're in the union. Yeah. And it doing that for probably 17 years, I guess, now. You're in the union? Yeah. And it's great? It's great.

You're always working? Yeah, I work a lot. Yeah. I work more than most. What gets you excited when you have to do a production? What do you sort of go like, oh, this is going to be fun to buy clothes for? Period clothes.

Yeah. Which period? Any of them? 60s, 70s. Yeah. I don't mind doing, like, 20s and 30s, buts but they're not as exciting as like the 60s and 70s so when you 80s well when you get that stuff are they're just like are there places that have that shit you just rent most of it or how does it work yeah we rent uh well like there's a there's a place in the there's a place in the valley that

has a great like western and period and then western costume itself uh there's western costume united american they have like all this vintage stuff but i think like you know when you were in the joker because i know mark bridges did that who's pretty phenomenal in brooklyn oh was it in brooklyn yeah but i feel like he might have made all your guys stuff oh yeah i think so like is he a big dude yeah yeah i met that guy yeah yeah he's a sweet guy with a beard, I think. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's a good guy.

Yeah, he's very thoughtful. But like, in that case, I think he made all your guys. Oh, he did? Well, because you know, it's like- I don't know, I tried on a couple of suits. Maybe not for my part. You know, maybe for the leads. Yeah.

But I remember there was a couple of options and, you know, they, I don't know, I didn't get the feeling that he made them. He definitely made the Joker, obviously. Yeah. That one. But I don't know. I didn't get the feeling that he made them. He definitely made the Joker, obviously, that one. But I just assumed he did because it shot in Brooklyn. There's not a lot of stuff to rent in New York. I mean, you can rent it from here. Maybe he did that and took it out there.

Yeah, yeah. I just remember there was a few options, and they seemed like fairly classic stuff. Yeah. There's a lot of it around. That period, I would think. What was that? Not for fat dudes, though.

You know, our real big guys. Yeah. Like, if you're like 6'5 or something. Right. There's not much at all. Yeah. You know what I mean? For big.

And then you just got to get it made? You have to make it, yeah. So you want to just, do you like staying in commercials? Do you want to do features or what? I want to do features and stuff. Yeah. How do you get into that thing? Just, I think somebody that, you know, you're doing a commercial with is ideally doing,

you know what I mean? He goes on to make a feature instead of like working with that guy. Yeah. Yeah. Like, my buddy does like a bunch of TV, you know, Jody, he does like Eastbound and Down and all that.

Oh, yeah. I think I'm gonna go do something with him. He's great, you know? Oh, yeah, that's, those guys are fun. They're fucking great, yeah. Well, I'm glad that we've, you know, our hobbies are different now. I think we're better off. yeah well i'm glad that we've uh you know our hobbies are different i think we're i think we're better off well i'm glad so the so the podcast is just sort of a what is it you just you like doing it well we you know we're we're always telling stories i mean you and

i've told stories about you know like and i love story and also because i hear shit it sounds like it sounds like the it's like demon fellowship yeah but i'm like but i also like, it's like demon fellowship. Yeah, but I'm like, but I also like that it's like, it, you know, of everybody, like, everybody we've had on and everything, everybody has a story, and they're pretty funny. There's a great one you gotta listen to with Blackie from Urge Overkill. Did you hear that one?

No. You gotta listen to that one. It's the drummer from Urge Overkill. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I kinda remember. But he told this fuckin' pretty heavy ghost story that's insane. I moved a chair with my mind on blow. No way.

Yeah, I think so. I think so. I'm pretty sure. It's a lot of energy coming off of me. I remember remembering it. Dude, that's amazing. They went to Stull, Kansas. With the band?

With Urge? Yeah, it was like them. They were touring with Nirvana. They were opening for Nirvana.ull, Kansas. Yeah. Which is. With the band? With Urge? Yeah. Well, it was like them and they were touring with Nirvana. They were opening for Nirvana. Yeah, yeah. And they were playing in like, fuck, I can't remember. Some big town in Kansas, but it was Halloween, so they decided to go out there. Yeah. And dude, he said it was just, it was like a fucking Twilight Zone movie. Like the fucking townspeople were staring at him and shit.

I bet. And the van move. All this crazy shit. But I like doing it because I also think, I'm hoping, I mean I hope people get a laugh out of it, but I also hope people fucking, it's a deterrent for, you know, because like me and Danny, like a lot of us ended up in jail a lot of times behind it.

And you know it's like, most of the people that I've been in prison with that are doing life in prison most of them are fucked up when they do something to get life in prison you know what i mean like some guy's hammered and walks in a house and kills everybody or drunk driving and kills you know somebody doing that it's almost always alcohol yeah wow well yeah well i hope Well, yeah. Well, I hope that's the way it works. Yeah. If you guys don't make it sound too fun. Yeah. Well, it's funny now.

It wasn't that fun at the time. You know, I realized like I'm like, there's a lot. I'm sure the same for you. A lot of years. It wasn't that fun. You know, I don't know, man. It's just I just remember one time like I was. I was in a hotel room here and I was taken. I think I was on some sort of ant and I was taken I think I was on some sort of antidepressant I think I was on Welbutrin or something and and I was doing blow and like

you know like I was laying in the bed and there was no way I was sleeping and I'd taken a few Ambien to try to get to sleep and my my my arm started doing that like CP thing like the palsy thing like it started like it started curling in and I couldn't uncurl it. Uh-huh. And there's that moment where you're like, I'm just going to ride this out. You know, like. But there's nothing. Because you're a doctor. Yeah.

There's nothing fun about like, I hope this doesn't stick. Yeah. You know, like in just those moments where you're laying in bed, you know, and you're alone and you're just about to just die. Yeah. It's the fucking, it's horrendous and that's like most of it that's the majority of it yeah it's not like i that's i always say it was fun in the beginning but when you end up with shit like that you know when you think that like i mean

there's no fucking way you or i should give ourselves or anyone else medical advice no and you look at your arm which could have i would have thought i was having a seizure yeah or a stroke or something yeah yeah and like but it's but that's where you know you get where you think like oh i'll be okay oh let's be grateful for a minute we're not living that life anymore so it's called uh it's uh it's all bad it's all bad and uh well i'm glad you survived it's great talking to you and thanks for doing it and you know people know, people will maybe go listen to the pirates laughing. Thank you so much for having me, Mark. Yeah, buddy.

It was awesome. Thank you. There you go. Keith's podcast. It's all bad. You can get it wherever you get podcasts. All right. All right.

Happy Thanksgiving. All right. Okay. That was a different time. It was a different time it was a different time when i started this this episode remember back then about 20 minutes ago it's a different time boomer lives We'll be right back. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means.

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