WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1077 - Ethan Russell

Episode Date: December 5, 2019

Photographer Ethan Russell is the only person to shoot album covers for The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, and The Who, which is quite an achievement considering he didn’t even want a career as a photographer. Ethan talks with Marc about going from the U.S. to England in the 1960s to become a writer, only to find himself working with Mick Jagger and taking rock and roll photographs that stand the test of time. On the eve of the 50th anniversary of the ill-fated Altamont Free Concert, Ethan describes what it was like to document the event and be on the helicopter that got the Stones out of there when it all went down. This episode is sponsored by Zoro.com and SimpliSafe. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf how's it going today on the show i talked to ethan russell he's a photographer.

Now, look, you know, I get stuff in the mail all the time, man. I get pictures. I get books of pictures. But this one, you know, the cover of it is Keith Richards walking off the Rolling Stones chartered plane in 1972. And I'm like, what is this? And in it, there's just these amazing pictures of, you know, John Lennon and Yoko and the Stones and the Who and the Eagles are in there. Linda Ronset, Jonathan Joplin, Jim Morrison, Taj Mahal, Benny Goodman. They're just but some of the Brian Jones, some of the last pictures of Brian Jones before he died. And more importantly, not even even more importantly but there were pictures

from altamont he was on stage at altamont and i'm a little obsessed with altamont and tomorrow is the 50th anniversary of altamont there's a lot of different schools of documentation of the altamont situation but by all indications by all sort of recollections and pieces on it, it was a clusterfuck of a very high magnitude and a very dark, fucking horrendous day. And Ethan Russell was there and he took pictures. And if you get the book, you'll recognize a lot of the pictures. And like I told you, I get a lot of these books and I like them, but for some reason, maybe it's this moment in my life. Yeah, I'm not really I'm really at the tail end of the boomer thing. This these were not this was not my life.

I did not live through it, but I came to it later. The Stones, Beatles, you know, they'd already they're already well on their way. But there was something about these pictures that really kind of nail something. I mean, he's just got a great eye and he's got a great way of framing. And some of them, I, you know, you just remember from your life,

from seeing them, he did that classic, you know, picture of Keith in front of the sign, be patient to drug-free America is a better America, whatever it is, but it's like seminal. I mean,

you know that picture and he sent it to me he self-publishes this book it's called the best seat in the house and uh you can get it as a book also as an interactive digital version at ethanrussell.com and you know he self-published this thing and he just sent it to me i love it so i he came down and he comes from, he's living up in the Bay Area. He came down and we talked about it. But I just found it very humanizing and very great. And we had a great conversation. So I'm going to talk to him in a minute.

And as I said, 50 years ago, Altamont. And this also got me sort of reflecting about things and trying to realize what, you know, what was my life versus what was the life that i revered from a different time you know i'm a little delirious i'm a little bit in denial uh lafonda my cat is is um yet is it digressing is it's just it's i don't know it's happening kind of quickly i thought it was you know you hang on to, it's happening kind of quickly. I thought it was, you know, you hang on to hope. I did not have hope that she would last another year.

I thought it would be nice, but she's just so weak. And, you know, when I give her subcutaneous fluids, it's really kind of stressful. And I'm just really getting acclimated to the idea that I got to do this soon. She's not in pain, but she's not having any fun either. Maybe I'm projecting that, but it's just, she's just not going to put on any weight. And I don't know you guys, I I'm, I'm trying to deal. People have been very supportive. I'm getting a lot of good emails. I think when I do make the decision to do it, I'm going to have a vet come here and we'll do it. We'll sit there and do it if I can hold her and get through it. It's very sad and bizarre to me that, I have 15 years of memories with this cat

at different points. You know, these are the cats I found living out in back of my apartment in Astoria, Queens, feral kittens, truly feral. They were not, uh, they, they were too old to be, um, domesticated really. They were quite wild for be domesticated, really. They were quite wild for years. But I just have all these insane memories. And I guess not unlike humans when they get sick. She's just not herself. She's never going to be herself again.

Her will is very diminished, almost completely. And it's sad. And you just got to wonder when, when it just feels like it's time. I was laying on the floor. I'm feeding her with my hands and my fingers. And now today, for some reason, she just started to hide more. And, uh, you know, she was trying to put up a good appearances for a while and towing up on the couch downstairs and hanging out, sleeping with me but today just seems worse and um i gave her the fluids but i don't know to what end and like i always say you know there's there's always cats available there's always cats around but you get so attached

to these things and i'm not sad that a couple of my longest relationships in terms of living relationships or with these cats. Monkey's doing okay, but Fonda, I'm not going to do a goddamn in memoriam today, but I think it's going to happen soon. I know it's going to happen soon. I know I got to do it, and I'll make the call. I'll do it. I'm not going to wait too long.

It's not even sad. Of course it's sad, but it's just it's not even sad so it of course it's sad but it's the right thing to do and ugh and there's a way to do it so you know they don't know

I'll know I got a weird email from a guy that says he he had the vet come over and do it at the house but then they took

the cat's body away and he felt bad that he didn't give his other pets time with the dead cat or dog. I don't remember what it was. Do I need to do that? I mean, are they going to be grieving or just, are they going to just be like, well, that's that. I guess they're not here anymore. Do I have to hang out and leave, leave the body around? I don't think so. Right. I mean, it just seemed to, it seemed like something, you know, he regrets,

but I don't know if it's a reasonable thing. I don't know., right? I mean, it just seemed to, it seemed like something, you know, he regrets, but I don't know if it's a reasonable thing. I don't know. My cats have adjusted to them disappearing before. I just, I don't think I can quite handle that. And I'm also, I'm trying to decide whether do I get her cremated and keep the thing and the thing, keep the stuff and the thing. You know, these are just avoiding the truth, which is that, you know that I'm going to have to let her go. And that's that.

Ashes, no ashes. I'm just going to have to do this. And it's going to be sad. And I feel like I've been preparing myself for the last couple weeks. And it's coming down to the wire, people. And I don't want to bum you out. It is what it is. And I would like to mention that

christmas is coming and there's new wtf merch for the holidays at pod swag.com slash wtf we got baseball hats winter beanies we got new shirts new mugs new travel cups there's a lot of new stuff you know a lot of it has the draplin the new draplin logo on there it's all at pod swag.com slash wtf or you can go to uh wtfpod.com and click on the merch button so it's a little heavy over here as i said it's heavy it's heavy but i'm blessed can i say that i'm blessed or I'm fortunate? Perhaps not blessed. You know, I'm just, I'm fortunate. My parents are still alive. I have not had any, you know, people in my immediate family fall ill.

I have not fallen ill. My cat is 15 years old, and I guess that's in her 70s in human years, and she's old and fragile and she's dying. But this is how i'm experiencing that somehow or another i wasn't around for the deaths of my other pets and uh you know i'm i'm around for this i'm here for this and it's just uh you know it's it's not a wake-up call but it it just i'm 56 man it's just sort sort of the years are creeping up, man. So what else is happening? I did a big fitting for my role in the upcoming Aretha Franklin biopic called Respect.

It's always fun to kind of do a real fitting. I went over to a wardrobe house with some wardrobe folks from the movie and got to try on all these different outfits from the late 60s and early 70s and it was kind of exciting it really kind of starts to wrap you in the character and then i went and got fitted for some glasses of the period and kind of wraps you in the character a little more and you know then i start to talk a little bit like this and uh i start to feel like the guy a little bit and you and things are starting to come together for me. There's an intensity to him and I think that it's starting to come together. I think the facial

hair is going to look right and I think that there's a way I can approach it. He was a bit of a rager, which is good for me. And sure, that's where I'm at with it. But look, I'm excited about that i did some adr

some uh voiceover work on the david bowie film that i did which looks a lot better than i anticipated and uh so that's kind of exciting it looks like that might get at the very least become a finished movie and uh that's that you know i'm gonna do a little stand-up. I'm going to add some more tour dates so I can get out to a few places. I'm going to hit the eastern seaboard a little bit in the middle of winter because that's a smart idea. I think I scheduled some dates in Maine and New Hampshire and Long Island and maybe Connecticut. I'll let you know. I'm going to maybe Connecticut?

I'm not. I'll let you know. Going to do a couple of Florida dates in February. All right. I'll let you know what's up. Tampa, Orlando. Yeah, I'm going to do a couple of Florida dates and I stay away from that. And I'm going to do a Cleveland date and I believe a Michigan date.

Is that right? I think it is right. i'll let you know but i'm going to do about seven dates you know before the special drops with the material that i've been doing because i can and there's some places that i haven't been back to in a while so that's going to happen and we're going to start shooting the fourth and final season of glow in march and that's that and uh you know it's a it's a it's kind of that time of year where things slow down a bit here between thanksgiving and christmas it's just this holiday chunk it's been nice and rainy here in la which means no fires and i'm just trying to you know i'm trying to stay okay with what I got to do.

I hope you guys are well. And now I want to introduce my guest, if I could. Would that be okay? Ethan Russell is a photographer, as I said earlier. The Best Seat in the House is a book available as a book and also an interactive digital version at EthanRussell.com. It's a great bunch of photographs. And we talk about Altamont because tomorrow, December 6th, is the 50th anniversary of that fucking nightmare.

And Ethan photographed it. And this is me talking to Ethan Russ. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company

markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. air this year's most anticipated series fx's shogun only on disney plus we live and we die we control nothing beyond that an epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by james clavelle to show your true heart just to risk your life when i die here you'll never leave japan alive fx's shogun a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply.

Where do you live? North of San Francisco now. Now, I see. So you're not, I didn't know really what your background was. You're not British. Not Brits. But you spent a lot of time there. I did, and I fooled a lot of Americans because I came back and they thought I was British. Really?

Yeah. Did you speak with a British accent on purpose? No, no, no, no, no. Sort of never did that, right? Well, I mean, thanks for sending the book. I don't know why you sent it, but I was very excited about it. I had no idea who you were, and I get this amazing book in the mail, and I look through it. And I've gotten a lot of these kind of books before the photographs, you know.

I mean, I talked to Neil Preston. Okay, there you go. You know Neil? Yeah. You guys, there's a few shots that just sort of transcend time, and they are there forever. And he got the one with Robert Plant in The Bird. Right. Right.

That was his big, that was the moment, man. Right. And you got like, there's so many in here that I've known all my life, like of Jagger, of Richards, of The Who, The Beatles, even later on in the book, Ronstadt and the Altamont pictures, the Rock and Roll Circus pictures. But so many of them were pictures from my childhood, ones I've always known. Right. And to get the book, I was like, wow.

And I've looked at it like three or four times and I'm still excited about it. So that's fun. And just even the cover shot. What's that? 72, the plane, the Stones plane. That's what it is. 72, getting off the plane. the Stones plane? That's what it is, 72 getting off the plane. That's when they got the logo.

And the weird thing is, like, now tomorrow, tomorrow is the 50th anniversary of Altamont. And I just had a discussion with someone the other day. There's going to be a time where all of these guys are going to go. They're going to be gone. And it's not far away. Yeah, yeah. And it's sort of heartbreaking.

But, like, this book is sort of a testament to you know hopefully i don't know how the next generation will process all this stuff but it's certainly for me and i'm a little younger on the boomer spectrum you know a very nostalgic and and beautiful you know uh archive of stuff well thank you i think it's true i mean the world changes so you don't know right right well Well, it just gets plowed under. You know what I mean? I mean, some songs will persist. So how did this start for you?

You grew up in the Bay Area? Well, born in New York, came across the country when I was eight. Oh, eight. Yeah. And then grew up in San Francisco, basically, Northern California. So your folks made the move? My father made the move back, actually. He was from a divorced family so i'm thinking 31 32

in those that era yeah and so you know he he worked for his he worked for uh bbdno and he was the original producer on the hip parade you really your father was my father was right so you grew up in that i grew up in that a little bit i was so little but i remember seeing dorothy whoever it was one of them you know and being like six and a half feet tall. Right. Now, what exactly was the Hip Parade? It was a TV show? Yeah, it was. Right. So the gag was my first words were LSMFT.

Do you remember what that was? No, no. Lucky Strike means fine tobacco. Oh, right. It's a little before me. It's a little before me. There you go. I'm 56.

There you go. Yeah, right. I know that's on the Lucky package. That's what it is. And so Lucky was the sponsor, right? And then they sponsored the show, at least one of the shows. Right. And they sort of took him.

But he was 25 and had four kids already, Second World War. Oh, my God. Right. And the story is he went in to get a raise and they said, well, you're not worth a raise. Wow. But you can go to San Francisco. Oh, so he left. And he had four kids. left and with no plan just four kids no he had his his step-grandmother or his stepmother my step-grandmother was in san francisco okay all right so so what was the plan

in san francisco for the old man what did he do he went back to bbd and oh he still did it which is uh batten barton dursting and osborne yeah it's madman okay it's totally mad it's an ad agency it's an ad agency yeah and so that was your dad was an ad man he was and what was your mom uh a married woman oh yes so the old days the old days exactly right so you're growing up in the bay area but you're how old are you now i'm 73 74 what am i 73 or so you were really the age where you know everything that was happening around youth culture post the 50s was you know relevant to you i mean you were part of it well yeah i mean a big part of my learning experience being involved with all these people was elvis was everything to everybody yeah oh really you know you never shot him i never shot

him no i mean he was by the time i was shooting, he was Fat Elvis, right? Right. And it was- Fat, sad Elvis. Fat, sad Elvis. Fat, sad, sweaty Elvis. And it came as a shock to me. It all came as a shock to me, but it's really true to understand any of this stuff is how

much American rock and roll meant to them. To who? The Beatles? The Stones? Oh, for sure. Right. Yeah. I mean, yeah.

And the blues, too, for the Stones. Right. Right? Right. I mean, because it seems to me, like, after talking to, you know, I talked to Buddy Guy, that they, a few guys here, a few weird record collectors and the Brits who learned how to play the blues really salvaged the entire musical form in the late 60s. Yeah, yeah, true.

You know, they reintroduced it to people in a different way and it brought people around. If it weren't for the Stones and Cream and Clapton and Fleetwood Mac and stuff, there's a good chance that the blues, the modern blues, would just have been derailed. Or left where it was, which was

not in front of white people. Right, esoteric and kind of fading away once R&B came in. So, all right, so what's going on in the Bay Area? When do you hit a certain age where you're like, I got to get involved with this shit? Well, I'm like every kid on the planet. I mean, that's why the story's kind of interesting,

which is that I loved early American rock and roll. Elvis was everything. I was in boarding school when Elvis went into the R&B. How old were you when he popped on the Elvis, on the Ed Sullivan show? I know. Was that what you're talking about? No, no, no. He went into, no, no. When I first saw him was that, but I think what I remember is the 45 RPM records. Of like Hound Dog and- Yeah, Hound Dog and Don't Be Cruel and all of that stuff. And just loving it. Right. Playing it over and over again and My Father, You and Me and all that stuff. Really?

But really standing upstairs and trying to do my hip shake like sure yeah and i got a picture of myself with a crew cut because i had the slick hair my dad cut it all off i was like you know what and i'm still not real happy about that yeah you had it greased up all good you know it was what i wanted that's where pompadour yeah and he just went south one day and had everybody get haircuts. Conservative guy? Well, yeah. I mean, the image is my parents were bogey and Bacall. They absolutely were when they were little at the 21 Club in New York. And then when they were old, and my father died young, 60.

Oh, really? When they were older. Cigarettes? George, yes, cigarettes killed everybody. Yeah, wow. Anybody that didn't stop, pretty much gone. Right, yeah. And they became George and Barbara Bush. Oh, they did. They look just like them. That's the trajectory. That's the

trajectory. All right. So you're listening to Elvis and it blows your mind now. Wait, you got three siblings? Uh, yeah. Two gone, one still alive. Uh-huh. Right. And, uh, are you the oldest or the youngest? Second. Okay. Right. So you're off at boarding school. You're listening to Elvis. And I guess, see, I can't even imagine. I'm trying to think if there's any analogy to like my generation. I mean, you know, things, many people, there was no big shift, no big paradigm shift in music that like woke everybody up. I mean, maybe Nirvana, but I was already in my 30s.

So I don't even know what that must have felt well when i was born you know i i called the beginning of rock and roll the and i can't remember the singer uh good rocking tonight yeah right elvis covered it yes right right it was a black guy that first sang it was 47 yeah yeah you know nonsense to rock around the clock for me no that's right yeah uh good Yeah, they're in Bill Haley Copped. There's a bunch of them. I just read a biography of Jerry Wexler, and it was all black music. Yeah, there you go.

And so rock and roll was two years old when I was born. Right. So I think the important part to know is there's no rock and roll. There's nothing to sort of say, how's this going to happen again because it was happening for the first time, right? Yeah, that's true, and the evolution made sense the you know that that the the swing to the to the bop to the to the bebop to the you know the acapella groups and then you know onward into the white

interpretation of that stuff that's right and the country stuff too but it goes away yeah it really does go away when elvis goes and then what happens and this is becomes international yeah is record companies which had so little to do with it in the beginning, try to reinvent it. They're constantly looking for the next Elvis. Oh, is that the deal? That's what's going on in England, Cliff Richards. When I get to England, coming out of Haight-Ashbury to do a jump, I'm expecting that I'm going to get into something that's bigger and more involved than Haight-Ashbury sort of as a lifestyle, which was what was really taking over.

Was that already happening? What year are we talking? 68 when I got to England. So, yeah. Oh, so like, yeah. Yeah, all you need is love is 67. I'm driving down the panhandle in Golden Gate Park. Yeah, I used to live on the panhandle.

So, like, you, but while you're in San Francisco and that, how old are you? Like, are you like, what, 18, 19, 67, 68? No, no, older. So that would be, so no, you're right, 18, 19, born 45. Right. So what's happening, you feel that whatever Elvis was or whatever he represented was already fading fast in light of the acid and the hippies and everything that was starting to turn.

I mean, Elvis and the Colonel became B-movie stars. I mean, he took the Colonel's advice and disappeared. I mean, Elvis was bigger than that. It was like a weird thing when I was a kid and I went to go see Love Me Tender as an Elvis fan. Right. Right? And I didn't understand, who is this? Why is he doing this?

Why is he doing it? Because I knew he was bigger than this movie, and I was 13. Right, right. So it was weird, but that's what he did. Oh, so it sort of neutered him. Yeah, he became irrelevant, right? Interesting. What happens for Americans, and it's not true that it happens for everybody,

what happens for Americans is folk comes in. Right. So Baez is the first person that starts to talk to me that's music at all. And then Dylan comes in and then Dylan goes electric and all those things happen, but they're all major. And what really happens, I think, is you find that the singer songwriter, which is blues, and to a certain extent it's rock, but it's blues and country. Exactly right. And that's not really in popular music. And it comes into popular music through Dylan in large measure, if you're an American. And then the Beatles are writing their own stuff, and the Stones are writing their own stuff.

And the whole trajectory is you've got to get to groups. Yeah, but then in the hate, you had Moby Gray, Blue Cheer, The Dead. Blue Cheer, my brother managed Blue Cheer. I know. You've got some pictures. Out of nowhere, there are pictures of Blue Cheer. There you go, yeah. Because they've had sort of a resurgence.

There's a whole new vinyl kind of epidemic going on. And Blue Cheer is very much revered for their kind of like raw rock sensibility. God bless them. You know, they were really there first and they didn't get credit for nothing. Right, back then, right. Yeah.

But so you were there in the hate with your, was it your older brother? Yeah, my older brother was the quote manager. So you were kind of like running around the hate when you were a teenager? No, I was still in college. So the hate was going on, and I was in college, and the music was coming out into college. Where were you in college? University of California, Davis. Oh, in Davis.

So you're kind of stranded out there in farm country. Yeah, a little bit. But it turns out it has a great art department. Who knew? Yeah, they do. And they have a good, my buddy of mine teaches. He's, I guess, a cultural critic and poet over there now. Right, okay.

Josh Clover. It's huge now. Yeah, it's a big place, yeah. But you're tied into the hate. Do you go see shows when you go? I was I was on a plane to England faster than then you would have thought right after college No, no, I didn't graduate so so there isn't really an after-college I made it to the to the end of my junior and are you shooting in college?

Do one do you know cameras are cameras are very late in life, right? I'm an English major I never took a photography course. I didn't want to be a photographer that wasn't on my radar yeah and uh started to look there's a really famous book called family of man you may know it but it's a edward steichen huge anniversary book and that's the first book that really reached to me and because it was about what it says it It's about family of man. So it was that thing about the – it was humanism, which is a large part, I think, of what happens in the sort of Beatles, Stones, early stuff in the writing. I don't know those photographs. I wish I did because I know the Ansel Adams stuff was mostly naturalism.

That's correct. And so Steichen was the humanism. I'm sure I know some of the photographs. He edited it. It was a 50th anniversary. It was a huge Museum of Modern Art exhibit with all the major photographers. Oh, I see. He's curated.

It wasn't just him. Oh, okay, great. Right, but it was fabulous. So that was the thing that did it, huh? Well, kind of, and then the movie Blow Up. All right, Antonioni, right? Antonioni, that's correct. And set in London.

Yeah. And very stylish, And set in London. Yeah. And very stylish, and that looks great. Yeah. And, you know, if I could have played guitar, I would have been playing guitar. But you didn't. But I didn't. Yeah. And it's nowhere near my skill.

I can't do it. I can't, you know, I can't tune a guitar. It took me the longest time to figure that out. And so it just wasn't me. Yeah. And that option that sort of that photography could be related to the music in a way came out of both what was happening a little bit on album covers because that was starting to be a thing. Yeah. Right. And then and then that movie, those two things sort of made me go, oh, that's cool. Maybe I should try and do that. Right. Yeah. And what was the and so you bought a camera? I bought a camera, a Nikon, a couple lenses, right?

Yeah. And started to take pictures. But it was all part of being this sort of this explosive time, which it truly was. And then so it's being an art major, an English major, and just doing a bunch of stuff. But you were tapped in. You realized the culture was changing. There was like chaos in the streets. Vietnam was starting.

The music was shifting. Like it was really a cauldron of of of chaos and excitement and creativity well it totally was and that's what the period was now the in england you go to england and they don't have any war they don't have any war and apparently they didn't have great acid either like that that i what i read where did i read that there was like the the scene in England in the late 60s, you know, based on what was going on in LA, that they would sort of mimic it. Like, you know, they dress the part of the biker, but they didn't have an indigenous biker issue in England. So a lot of the Americanized sort of archetypes and tropes of the time were basically costumes to the British. Is it true? Spot on.

Anything about England in order to understand where they're coming from is sort of this, the great George Harrison quote, which is when he was asked if he had a phonograph, he said, we didn't have sugar. Right. And they're all coming out of a bombed out war that basically sunk the empire.

Yeah, yeah. They're broke, they don't have any money, there's nothing going on. Right. And everything that's going on is coming out of America. And for these guys, it's all American rock and roll. But the BBC hasn't changed because of that because it's a big government bureaucracy. There was like one DJ, a guy called John Peel, who would play a little bit. Oh, yeah, the Peel sessions.

Yeah, you didn't hear nothing that's rock and roll. Really didn't. You know, you might get a little sort of three minute promo that gets played on that. There was the... I never put that into perspective because like, you know, when you get these BBC recordings of Bowie and stuff, these box sets that are coming out now, which are spectacular, it's all that guy Peel, I guess. It was like his... They didn't have you know much outlet well Bowie's later Ready Steady Go is sort of you know Michael Lindsay Hock who's a very

interesting man and has a book what is it anyway his father's Orson Welles I mean it's just an interesting real American story who's over there he's a director he directed Let It Be right he directed the Rock and Roll Circus. Oh yeah, okay.

That's how I know him. Yeah. But he's got this kind of crazy and interesting past. He was directing Ready Steady Go! And Ready Steady Go! was a live television program, the Stones would appear on it. Right. But it was gone by the time I got there.

Huh. Late 60s, mid 60s? Yeah, so a lot of what influenced the Brits to get involved with their own groups was sort of gone by the time I got there, which is interesting. So who was around? What was going on when you got there? I'm telling you, Cliff Richards.

Oh, my God. It's so hard to imagine. But the truth of it was. And that's 68? Yeah. It felt like 10 years ago. Huh. It really did.

It really felt like they were still trying to sign Elvis. So were the other bands, like were the Stones out on tour? What were they doing? Where were they? Were they in hiding? The Beatles were, of course, only about recording. Yeah.

Right, yeah, sure. That was all what that was. The Stones really weren't performing because of the problems with Brian Jones and drug busts and all the rest of that. And taxes, right. Right, and taxes. And all of that was really shutting people down.

All right, so you show up with your camera. Now, did you learn how to process and print and everything? Let me see about that. Process, yes. Print, kind of. And then when I got there, what I found in the great tradition of Britain was that there are people that really know how to do that. To print.

And process. And process, yes. So I was like, you guys take this. You're much better than I am. So I knew that. That was about it. You're dropping the film off. I'm dropping the film off and coming back, and it looks good.

Yeah. Hey, this is great. Give me a few of these. Yeah, exactly right. Okay, so that makes it easier, doesn't it? Yeah, it really does. Yeah. You're not inhaling chemicals or spending half your life in the darkroom.

Exactly right. All right, so how do you break into shooting these guys? Totally. So I want you break into shooting these guys? Totally. So the stories, you know, so I want to be a writer. So if you back this up just a tiny bit, I wanted to be a writer and then in college couldn't deal with it. Like what? Poetry?

Short stories? But I don't know nothing. Yeah. So it's like- That's an English major. We don't know anything. That's exactly right. We know a little bit about a lot of things.

Nothing. Right. Nothing. Can barely read. Right. But I don barely read. Right. But I don't know why I think I'm going to be able to write. But that's the best I can do because something's got to come out of your mouth when it says what do you want to be.

Sure. Right. You're a writer. So you show up with your notebook and your camera. Yeah. Yeah. But I really can't tell you how little I know. Nothing.

Yeah. But that's kind of what I'm thinking of doing. When I get to England, what happens is it feels good. Right. Feels like I've been there. Still feels that way. London in particular. Yeah. Right? Feels like I've been there. Still feels that way. London in particular. Yeah.

Really? Do you have a genetic connection to it? Don't know what it was. Had an English nanny. That was part of my past. Yeah, because I feel that about Ireland, but I have no connection genetically to Ireland. I know. I've been reading about that.

Ireland's fabulous. It's the best. Yeah. Really. It's so fucking beautiful. Yeah. It's heavy hearted and gorgeous. Yeah.

Yeah. So you feel that in England. I felt that right away. And really the parks. So the parks had a kind of blow up connection because that's so much a blow up, right? Right. That's where the murder was, right? Yeah.

I never found that park. I walked all over England looking for that park. It was pre-Google. Yeah. Right now you find it. Okay, there it is. Can you research it? Did you figure out which park it was?

I never found out until Google. But now you know. No, but I've never been still. Okay. You have time okay it's almost enough to go back just for that you should get closure right exactly um so so i love that but the music wasn't there yeah right so the photography was kind of like you know i had some cameras here and sometimes i'd take a walk and yeah like it seems like the early stuff is just sort of like you doing your kind of

Robert Frank work. Yeah, well, I wish there were more. Or the Bresson, you know, that kind of thing. But I was too,

well, Bresson was an influence. Frankly, I met Frank on the 72 tour. When he was shooting Cocksucker Blues? I didn't know he was.

Oh, really? What a pathetic statement that was. His was The Americans, right? That's right, The Americans. It's a great, great series. Yeah, classic. Unbelievable.

But Bresson, you knew. Bresson, yeah. Bresson was it. Bresson, an English photographer, kind of obscure, called Bill Brandt was an influence. Sure, yeah, yeah. And then everything black and white, everything that was England. It's like Taste of Honey, the movie. Remember that?

Yeah. And sort of the knack, not really, but kind of. And Hard Day's Night, of course. Yeah. All of that sort of gritty, black and white America, which Quadrophenia's got a lot of that in it. You shot that, right? Yeah. Now, all those pictures from Quadrophenia, you were on set.

You were a set photographer? No, no, no, no. No. No, no, no. All that, that whole book we created. Okay. There was no movie. Oh, there wasn't a movie. It was ahead of the movie. That's right, yeah. So the art sort of trajectory is at some point after I've been doing it for a while, now I'm Beatles, Stones, and Who, and so it's kind of like, well, it can't stop now, right? Well, I mean, so, but how do you get there?

Like, so you're shooting around, you're shooting, you know, women you have a crush on, you're shooting people in the street. Hardly, yeah, but hardly. What I'm really trying to do is write, right? And what are you writing? Bad, bad, bad little short poems. It's horrible. It's horrible.

Who are you showing those to? Well, this guy comes by. So this is the story. So a college friend comes to England. A lot of Americans did that, right? Yeah, right. And then he says, you should meet this guy, Jonathan Cot. Jonathan Cot was, it turns out, to be a stringer on a magazine that was brand new called Rolling

Stone. Right? Right. But I'm not thinking about pictures. I'm not thinking about any of it anymore. And John sees the pictures. I have a blue chair. That's the treasure.

That you shot, like, hanging out with your brother? Yeah. Right. And when he leaves, he asks me if I want to photograph his next interview. Yeah. And I said, sure. Who? and he goes mick jagger that was that was those are the rolling stones pictures 68 when the rugby shirt

my first session the rugby shirt that's correct i remember those pictures yeah yeah and it was like and and i really thought i don't know what else to say except you have to believe me this was so unlikely that i never expected it to happen again. So you go and you show up. So he's interviewing Mick, I guess. So what was that, the first Rolling Stone interview? That's correct. And you're just a fly on the wall kind of deal.

The guy's talking, this is Ethan, he's going to be doing the thing. Yeah, and fly on the wall was everything that makes sense to me. Yeah. Right? So the thing when I had to finally think, I got to explain how I take pictures at some point. Somebody's going to ask me. Right. And it happened for me as a vision, which was of myself as a young guy. And I wish I knew if I had slick back hair because it would be better if I did.

And I'm hunting. My grandmother's got a back hair because it'd be better if I did. And I'm hunting. My grandmother's got a big ranch in Carmel Valley. Right. And she wants me to shoot blue jays for some obscure reason. And that seems fine to me. We had a little gun, a little tiny.22. Yeah. And so it's this part I think is easy to imagine.

Imagine that that's what you're doing. Right. So how can you do that? You got to come. You got to go to where they are. Right. You got to be real quiet. Yeah. Right come, you got to go to where they are. Right. You got to be real quiet. Yeah.

Right? And you got to stand really still. Yeah. And then if they show up, you got to do like, you got one or two seconds and you got to get it. And that's what you do. And that's how I took pictures. Totally.

That's the thing that did it. And I could frame. Those were the two pieces. Framing's an innate thing. Framing is a gimme like being able to tune a guitar. I swear. You know? It's a gimme Like being able to tune a guitar I swear You know Sure

It's a gimme Right Yeah And but it always mattered to me And I was No it's great You know Yeah

And I was always good at it But it's like yeah Either you have it or you don't That's right Yeah Right So well why would they Why'd you have to

Why'd she want the blue jays dead I've heard that before I can't remember They're predatory They eat something Well they're sort of They're nasty But she was

Don't they fuck up something Well yeah She's a big horticulturist. That's what she cared about. Oh, right, yeah. And they would drop shit on plants that she was trying to grow. And, you know, it seems a little extreme, frankly, in retrospect. But at the time, I didn't even think about it.

So, yeah, you heartless bastards. Yeah, there you go. I said it. It was in Toronto, and they were like, what, Blue Jays, the baseball team? Yeah, he's out killing athletes. Yeah, there you go. So, okay, so you shoot Mick, and you thought Jays, the baseball team? Yeah, he's out killing athletes. There you go. So, okay, so you shoot Mick, and you thought that was a one-off? I totally did.

Now, did you have- But I thought I was cool. You got to understand. You were definitely cool. I mean, but, so did you have, so you had no real interaction, but you heard everything, right? Did you have an interaction with Mick? No, no, no.

Hello. I mean- Yeah, that's it. And that's sort of the way I felt about, I never made any sense to me why would they want an interaction with me, and where would it be my place to want an interaction with them. It took years. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's the question of the photographer and also, I mean, until you're doing, I guess, actual photo shoots, which even then it's limited, but there has

to be some sort of relationship between you and them or them and the camera that you're holding. Once the camera goes on a tripod, right, you got to bring them to the camera, right? That's the way that goes. And then that becomes more directorial. Right. And there are certain people really good at it. I always found it incredibly sort of nervous inducing because so much pressure's on you,

right? But the, you know, there are greats at it like Avedon. I mean, they were just brilliant. And they can create that. I don't know how he did. But, you know, he did some, I don't know, like the American West book. Oh, it's unbelievable. But what, did he have a truck or something? Yeah, he did.

There was one of the few books I know that's a book about the making of a photograph. Right. Very few. Yeah. And he shot that. It was a commission. American West. Yes.

Yeah. And, you know Dallas Museum or something like that right he shot 8x10 8x10 film camera and he did it in open shade

so there's pictures of him shooting so the negatives are 8x10 he shot nothing but 8x10 that's a huge camera yeah huge

like you know that's a real Ansel Adams camera so to use that as as your tool for that kind of photography is a big deal.

But how do you do the white background? Took the white background with him. That's crazy. Yeah. What a book that is. Yeah. It's my favorite. Oh, yeah.

I mean, when you look at it, it's just like every one of the people, it's like a history of brutality and sadness and hard life. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of interesting, like, Arbus-like in a funny way. No, it definitely is. There's definitely... But, you know, unlike Arbus, he sort of lets the subject, you know,

whatever his magic is in capturing it in the sort of sparing way that he did, it's all about whatever is happening in that person. Whereas, you know, you felt that arbus was actually in the life of the person yeah i mean she had an she had an agenda yeah yeah i guess i don't think he had an agenda so but you're doing so you do the mick jagger shoot and you're like that was amazing you get paid yeah maybe but so how and then what happens is and then i'm going back to my so at at that point I was working, because I was in England, I was lucky to be there. Yeah. And I was working in a hospital with autistic children, which is something that mattered to me.

Yeah. Right? And I felt it was great, right? What were you doing with them? I had a child that I, in particular, looked after. Okay. So it was really like that. I had, first of all, read about autism in Life magazine.

You wanted to do something good. I felt like that was appropriate. I was a lucky guy. And I didn't want to sit around and not write, you know, or write badly or whatever it was. You wanted to give back a little bit. You know, I wanted to give back a little bit. And so I was doing that when this came up, and I went back to doing that, you know. And like three months later, John Cott, same guy, calls me again and says,

do you want to shoot my next interview? And I said, who is it? And he said, John Lennon. So, you know, more luck than any human should be allowed to have. And those were my first two, and by then I'm going, well, you know. And I think the fact that I was an American

really, really helped me, right? Yeah, why? Because they liked Americans, right? And And also culturally, you can't spot people that are outside of your culture. Right. As easily as you can your own. Right. Yeah. So I was A, American, B, kind of connected with Rolling Stone, C, and took a different kind of picture. Honestly, the kind of picture where you're not bothering them and you're not getting them to stand up, where you're really taking a picture of their world. Right. And then showing it back to them.

I think that had a huge – I know it had a lot to do with Let It Be because that's exactly what happened. I sort of long story, but I had like three days at the end of the day after Neil Aspinall jerked me around. Neil who? Neil Aspinall, who's the head of Apple Records and had been with them since driving vans. Yeah. Right. Right. And after Brian Epstein died, a big part of their story, he had took that chair.

Yeah. Right. And so I asked him, he called me. He called me because I had pictures of John. Right. Right. From the Rolling Stone interview? Exactly.

Yeah. And some, maybe just those, because I don't know if I had the Johnny Yoko stuff yet. And I went in to see him, and as he's looking at them, I also had the rock and roll circus pictures. You already shot those of Mick and Taj and Eric. Yeah, all that like two weeks before. So the rock and roll circus on set stuff, who pulled you in for that? Your buddy? Yeah, now I knew everybody.

So Michael was one. And I also knew, I was friends with then known as Joe Bergman, who was running the Stones office. I became friends with the people that were around them. A lot of them were Americans. And so it was just kind of natural and easy. It was a very small world. But that rock and roll circus thing, it's really even hard to find the footage of that stuff. What was the idea of that show?

I mean, how many were there? No, so how many shows? It wasn't a real show. It was shot for television. Right, that's what I mean. But there was only a couple of them. Was it one episode or the Rock and Roll Circus? Was it a series?

You know, it's channeling Ed Sullivan is what it was. Yeah. Right. And it was because they what it was. Yeah. Right. And it was because they couldn't tour. Yeah. They couldn't go outside. They had to do something. So it was a Rolling Stones produced event?

Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. And so it was filmed, I think, just to get something out there. Yeah. Because they couldn't tour and they couldn't do anything. And if you really delve into it, it's interesting because it's very much, you know, Jagger's an entertainer, which you didn't necessarily know then, right?

Right. He was Mick Jagger, right? And he was also flirting around with Mick Jagger and the devil and all that nonsense, bad guy, all the rest of that. But really the core being in or at least part of it is the entertainer, right? So he knows what an entertainment is. They had this problem and they decided to do this show. That's what that was all about. Just invite people and do some... No, and without much money because they didn't have hardly any money really. And so that's what

it was. And there's a really interesting part about it, which I think talks a lot to something, which is that those images today look pathetic, right? Do they? Kind of. I guess it depends how much you love those people. Yeah, you love them, but the thing that's really interesting is all the music was live. Right. Well, no, but I mean, I don't think they look like, isn't there one with Keith and an eye patch?

I didn't mean I didn't see it in this book, but I remember seeing one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And there's this whole circus environment, but you see Eric Clapton and Taj Mahal and all these people there. When I look at it, I still sort of like, that must have been great. That was great. That was great. I never think like, this is ridiculous. No, it's more the, but as a visual person.

Oh, yeah. Right, and as a filmmaker, which I wasn't really yet. Right. But you know. Sure. The expectation is it's not about that. Yeah. That's kind of almost a throwaway. Right. And as a filmmaker, which I wasn't really yet. Right. But, you know. Sure. The expectation is it's not about that. Yeah. That's kind of almost a throwaway.

Right. Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus. Okay, well, what do you get when you say that? Yeah. You get a clown juggler and a knife thrower. Right. Yeah, yeah. And so they did all that stuff, but really it was a way to just package and showcase

those people, which they did. Yeah. So, okay. So, I know it's a sidebar but we're moving towards the let it be shoot but like how so you you show up this guy uh the guy at apple and what he gives you the run around he saw i i sort of think you know i show him the because i'm not an idiot right i think i'm going into apple i'll take these pictures right john yeah john and ticket and the rock and roll Circus, right?

And those guys are constantly looking over the shoulder at each other. What are they doing? What are they doing? The Stones and the Beatles. Yeah, yeah. So I show it. I don't know what's going on with it. And I ask them, though, because I have no business doing any of this.

That's very clear to me, right? You should be writing poems. I should be writing poems. Bad poems, whatever. There you go. They were short anyway. I'm glad you didn't put any in the book. Thank God.

If I could find anything, I'd burn them. So I said, I thought, I'll just ask. I'll just ask. So I said, can I go down and I want to shoot the Beatles. Can I do that? And he said, absolutely not. And truly, I thought that's the most sensible thing that's been said to me. That made sense to me.

But I knew everybody. So I knew where they were. So I got in the car and I just drove down. To where the roof? To Twickenham Soundstage is where they started. So if you remember the movie at all, it's being recut by Peter Jackson. Do you know that? No, I didn't know that.

Oh, yeah. I didn't see them. I mean, was it a full lengthlength movie? Yeah, it was, but it kind of got buried. It was a documentary. Because I've seen parts of it, but I don't know that I've seen the whole thing. Maybe when I was in high school, it was around? I think it was kind of buried. Yeah.

Because it came out, and a lot was going on when it was released, because Alan Klein had just come in, right? That album, which was done before Abbey Road, took forever to come around. And it was just all of that. And then, well, Phil Spector came in. And that's all Alon Klein.

And whatever you feel about Paul McCartney, it's like, what? You're bringing in, what? Well, then they released. But it's weird. Even with Spector, it's something that, And I'm sure this is all within the lore. But, you know, they certainly neutered Spectre a great deal. You don't listen to that record and you don't feel Spectre's presence, really. Yeah, a little bit.

Not much. But it's a little bit of Starfucker, really, honestly. I guess so. Klein's bringing in the big American producer. Yeah. But let it be. Glyn Johns was the engineer slash sort of producer in the sense that he was behind the keyboards and there was nobody else there talking about that george martin was

hardly ever around for that album yeah never saw him yeah and so it was a real aberration start it sounds different yeah it sounds different everything about it's different i mean so put your brain around the fact that this is the biggest act in the world. I don't know who's that big today. Yeah. But, you know, and somebody comes up with an idea that they'll show up on a sound stage in January and make a record. Yeah. So you go down there.

I go down there and I'm sort of sitting in a corner with, you know, and it's also seeing. And you get in because you know guys and you shot John. Nobody's at the door saying you can't come in. It's a different time, man. And so I just sort of sneak in, and I'm standing in sort of the back of this big soundstage, and I'm watching them, and they're small at the end, and they look like the Beatles because there's a riser for the drums and all the rest of that. And then I look over, and it's Neil. And he's looking at me, and I think, oh, fuck.

Yeah, busted. Now what? And he walks up to me and says, we've decided to let you come Neil. Yeah. And he's looking at me and I think, oh, fuck. Yeah, busted. And he walks up to me and says, we've decided to let you come down. Yeah. Well, that's good.

That was diplomatic for him to say that. You're already in. Yeah, it's almost, it's, you know, East End, you know. But, and then he only would give me,

he said, for one day. And I said, not for one day, three days. Yeah. Why? Because I may not

get anything in one day. Right. And then when I took those pictures into apple records uh the ones in the studio the ones in the film studio right right and they were beautiful tony richmond who was the lighting cameraman these big pools of light yeah pretty yeah and and i went up in the rafters and i did all this and and and i was showing them in and it was only supposed to be derek Derek Taylor who was the press officer.

And then everybody showed up. Paul was there. Linda was there. John was there. Yoko was there. Billy Preston was there. Everybody was there. Was this before Linda was shooting?

Yeah. Linda sort of – we were going to – there was a thing called the Get Back Book. Yeah. Which is 140 pages. Came out with the album on every country except America. Uh-huh. Right? And they were all my pictures.

Oh, yeah. linda was supposed to be part of it and then dropped out oh because i like the pictures that you have in your book and and like i remember looking at them obsessively i mean there are the you shot the cover the record right yeah and but i i and and all the rooftop shots yes right but i remember seeing some of those studio pictures i don't know where but I remember looking at them intensely. Did they come with the record? Were they inside the line? The record in America was a double, it was like eightfold.

Yeah. Oh, they were in there. That American parlance, right? Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. But the book, which is really pretty great. Get Back?

The Get Back book, it may be called Let It Be, was 120 pages, all my pictures. I must have seen that. Yeah. So now, at that point, do you start, when you're shooting for three days and you're obviously right there with them, do you start to build a relationship with the Beatles? No, I would never. So first of all, you have to realize they're being filmed. Yeah.

Okay. They're being filmed and they're making a record. Right. And more to the point though is why would I, why would I, why would they talk to me? John always did. I was always like friends with John partly because that's how we met yeah partly I really believe now because I took really good pictures of his girlfriend yeah I mean I think Yoko yeah I didn't know who she was and uh and it was early on he liked him and he bam I showed up and took him out of my hands put

him on the wall yeah like bam yeah there you go uh and so and and we got on and we really did i was nice guy yeah i thought he was fabulous so all right so now was it a heavy day shooting the beatles last session they knew they were done well i i how how entirely did they know that they were done you know they were done they were done right but i don't think anybody was quite saying it yet um so i hadn't been announced yet but did you feel a vibe oh it's terrible it was well it was also um it was supposed to be the initially it was going to be a session in a photo studio so i had spent the week before thinking about that yeah and then the night before i got don't do that come to john so i got no ideas right and i didn't really do photo sessions. You put your finger right on it. I think it's really abstract. What's a photo session? And that's

what people still do. Yeah, sure. They do them now, yeah. What is it to have your picture taken? They usually take you into an environment that you're not comfortable with. Sometimes there's clothes involved. And the photographer's doing everything to get you to kind of have a dynamic with him and the camera if he's not feeling it. They'll put music on. It's crazy. Yeah, no, it's very, very false. Yeah.

You know? Right. And so, therefore, it's not, well, it's not my cup of meat. And also, now, they had a second photographer from the Daily Mail come. That was Neil's idea, which was fine with me. But now I'm supposed to be telling them what to do. I don't tell people what to do. Townsend used to rip me a new one all over the place. Tell us what to do. Tell us what to do. It really made him angry. And it's interesting that

sometimes when you don't tell people what to do, you get something that they bring to the table. Because they're frustrated. Out of frustration. They don't know what they're doing.. You get stuff you wouldn't otherwise get. But the vibe on that day... It was horrible. Like in what way? Well, I think that if you took... I don't know what... I love that picture. I love that record.

I know it's bits and pieces of a lot of different things, the Hey Jude record, but it was one of the first Beatles records. That one, Let It Be, and the second album, for some reason, the ones i had when i was a kid and i love what it be i love hey jude i love that record right i don't think of that when i think of that session i don't think of that picture right right i think of the black and white pictures that are in the book uh-huh right yeah uh because that's what they were doing i mean i shot very little color right right uh and they didn't have anything else so that's what they used right uh and but of the

black and white which is let's say i shot eight rolls yeah or ten rolls something like that i don't think george changed his expression the whole day sad pissed off yeah right over everything about him says over right just everything uh do you know why i think it was over they were just going different directions. Yeah, I just think that there wasn't anything there anymore. I'm speculating, but I think the big deal was that Brian Epstein was gone. And, you know, Brian was the one that said, you get up and you go here and do what you're supposed to do, and then we'll tell you where to go next.

And while that was shifting, obviously, it was still, I think, fundamentally the case. And when he's gone, nobody can do that. That brain tumor? I don't know. I think, I don't know why. I don't know the exact answer. I think it was sort of, you know, what's a fancy word for downer? You know, I think it was a downer.

And alcohol is what I think, right? And then so Paul kind of, it's his nature. Paul kind of leapt into that. And you have siblings yeah right so you know your siblings got a great idea for you right right yeah and he really means it yeah right yeah and it's like i don't care what what you have for me yeah and it just seemed like there was something kind of ripping at you know outside of ringo that you know the the the sort of creative uh uh ambitions of each of them was very different.

And I guess what was holding them together was breaking. I think they were done. I think Yoko certainly didn't break them up. No, no, no. That's very clear about that. You kind of feel that in the documentary. I did a thing. So I have the pictures in the book of Johnny Yoko

falling in love and they're some of my favorite pictures. They're just so intimate and lovely and you really feel it. You feel his love for her and you can really see it

and you can see a real tenderness coming from her. It's sweet. It seemed like she really opened him up. Yeah, it was different.

So I did a, a couple years ago I did a Valentine's Day show where those pictures were the core of it. And in order to try and make something of an evening about it, I did a little research, right? And what you realize is that both of them are war babies, her even more than him. Yeah, big time. Big time. Her family was a wealthy family in Japan that had, you know, kind of lost everything.

Lost everything. Had to take the suitcase and walk out of town. Yeah. Right. And so they shared that, you know. And she, I think, had it as a motivator more than him because I think it was bigger for her. And she was older when it happened. And so she was always sort of that was present for her.

And she, I think, imagine doesn't happen if he doesn't marry yoko oh no definitely not it seems like a lot of her sort of creative sensibility the simplicity of it and the poetry of it and the the weird kind of artistic courage of it right really had an impact on him totally like the you know the language of the songs i think is yoko that's right okay so once you you do the that cover like you know now you're a guy that does sessions so how does like you know you know how to the the who's next cover i want to talk about the who's next cover so like what whose idea was that you can't have that idea well it wasn't an idea no of course not right so it was something how do you get out to that place where

the fuck was that shot that was shot uh easlington college i have no How did you get out to that place? Where the fuck was that shot? That was shot East Linton College. I have no idea. And you got hired to do that? Yeah, I was hired because by that point, so right after, just quickly, right after Let It Be becomes Rolling Stones' 69 tour. That's really what happens next. And then who's next is like 71. So the 69 tour, okay, is that where you shot? When did you shoot Brian?

Right before that? Right before, Brian died in the summer of 69. 69? Right three days before, I mean like July 1st or something, three days before the concert in the park. And,

oh right, because they have to eulogize him and it's like, he's still fucking warm almost. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Mick's wearing that weird dress shirt.

That to me, that tells you so much if you're in your English who putting on costume stuff. They got the Hells Angels, the fake Hells Angels down below. They got Jagger wearing an Edwardian smock. They've got these moths

that they're pretending are butterflies. They got a black man with makeup on and wearing it like reeds carrying a spear that's running across. It's culturally psychotic. And you shot all that. I shot some of it. Somebody tried to spike Jagger for that concert.

Yeah. What do you mean spike him? Give him a load of brownies, right? And it never even occurred to me that they'd be spiked, right? Yeah. So I said, sure, I'll have them. So you were out of commission? I'm just like, well, first of all, they put me up on there.

You can't move. I did not do a good job. But how did that Brian Jones shoot come about? Because I knew those pictures as well. Well, Brian was just like, it was the end of a series of individuals. This is when I really got to know the Stones a little bit because I shot them all individually for this magazine that went bust before. In 67?

No, 68 or 69. So that's 69 with Brian. Yeah. And so I go down to his house. He bought A.A. Milne's house. It's so sort of sad and charming. The Oney the Pooh guy? Yeah.

Uh-huh. Yeah. I mean, the pictures in there, he's choking Christopher Robin, which since he looked just like Christopher Robin, right? You know, so it was, he showed up and he did all that. He went upstairs. I was just taking pictures of him. Was he wasted? He was wasted, hungover wasted probably.

You know, there's a closeup not in the book of him and he looks 46. Yeah. I didn't see it. You know, I'm thinking this is really bitching. Yeah, right. You know, look at this. Look what he's doing. I'm thinking this is really bitching. Look at this. Look what he's doing.

This is so cool. With the flag and the gun. Oh my God. Rolling Stone stuff. I mean, sort of if Honky Tonk Woman is like that, you know, Rolling Stone's sort of one of my favorite things is the 45 cover where they're dressed up like, you know, wax and waves. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I love that stuff. You didn't shoot that though, did you? No, uh-uh. I should know, but I don't.

In Honky Tonk Woman, they're like, there's a sailor. Yeah, yeah. It's the same idea. But that's later, right? That's later. That's correct. But it's me trying to live up to my predecessors. Sure.

So Brian was a nice guy? I found him nice, but if you spend, because I'm much older now, I've read about some of this stuff. He was nice to me. Yeah. That's the way it was. But he was pretty crazed and a mess. The picture where he looks 46, you can tell that his liver is shot because his belly is all out. So, and there wasn't, nobody was, knew about that.

Yeah. Right? It wasn't like. How wasted he was? Nobody knew that he was on his way out. Oh. In my opinion. Yeah.

Right? Because people weren't on their way out yet. He was the first of that crowd. And then all of a sudden, they're all gone. And all for the same reason, more or less. But I didn't know that. It didn't occur to me at all. And that was sort of the last pictures.

They were the last pictures, to my knowledge, yeah. So then you do the 69 tour with the Stones? Same thing. So you can tell how my business plan is mapped out. So I hear the Stones are in LA. So I just drive down. I'm in San Francisco. I just get down and I walk into the house. They got two houses. It's a totally big deal of the whole thing. They got to do this tour. They got Mick Taylor with them so they can tour for the first time it's not successful no mas rolling stones you know well there was a conscious effort that mick was going to align himself with the new psychedelic generation you know in order to to sort of you

know get the stones up to speed culturally in america so they were going to have their woodstock and they aligned themselves with the dead and their people. Everything just kind of broke apart. There was all these weirdos traveling with the Stones, and they didn't even know who they were. I was one of them. But apparently there were guys on the payroll. They were like, what is that guy doing? Who's the guy with the cars? Who's the guy showing up with the limos?

Oh, well, he was something. So I did that whole tour with them. I wasn't just at Altamont. There were 16 people on the 69 tour. But was Altamont the last date? Last gig. Okay, well- Added.

Right, but the original intention was to do a big festival type of show. Oh, yeah, no question about it. And then everything fell apart, and they found that fucking horrible speedway in the middle of nowhere, right? So they had- I'm telling you the story. I know the story. Well, I wrote a book on it. You did?

Yeah. It's all from the inside, if you will, because I was with the Stones, right? Talk about writing. Yeah. I finally wrote. Yeah. Right? I've written four books now, I think, three books, something like that.

And that book took six years and I- Let it bleed, it's called? Yeah. I'll get it to you. When did you write that? I wrote it, I think it came out in 2005. Oh, yeah. Right? Yeah.

And the tour was amazing, but you're right about this. From the minute Jagger got off the plane and Richards, all of them, it was like you're going to do a free concert because Woodstock was everybody's- It was the template, right? Right. Are you guys going to do it? And so they didn't say they were going to do a free concert because Woodstock was everybody's, it was the template, right? Are you guys going to do it? And so they didn't say they were going to do it, although they had the North of San Francisco, the Speedway, not Altamont, the other one, and they lost that at last minute. So what you see in the Maisel's movies is three days before the concert,

those movies just is three days before the concert they're announcing the guy from you know dick carter shows up yeah i'm told later i didn't know this because it sounds so perfect he was taking a marketing course at stanford he was an old guy yeah by those standards those days and some kids said you know the rolling stones were looking for a place so marketing guys of course it's stanford he shows up at mel bella's office and says I got the place he didn't have nothing was organized right but I think the mindset matters and the mindset

of the 60s was we're just going to do it right and it's going to be better than the last time because everything was right so they thought

they'd bring it off it was horrible yeah but I mean like it just seemed now was the 69 tour was that where you took that like the fucking the the is seminal the right word? The patients please a drug for your America comes first shot of Keith?

No, it was 72. That was 72. Yeah, yeah. Now you posed him for that. I did. And I seldom pose them. And I thought, but it was, there it was right in front of me. You got to do it.

All right, so wait, let's go back to Altamont because part of this is we're kind of putting this up the day before the 50th anniversary. So what I gleaned from the book was that, because you were there, right? You were backstage, whatever that meant.

There was no stage to be back up. It was like three feet off the ground. Well, it was the same stage that had been the tour, the whole tour. That had been the height of that. So you're getting this book for sure. The height of that stage was the tour, the whole tour, that had been the height of that. So you're getting this book for sure. The height of that stage was the same for the whole tour.

You can see pictures from Oakland. You can see pictures all over the place. Yeah. And people are on the stage like this. Just like with their elbows on the stage. So there's no moat. There's no nothing. Uh-huh.

No. And from what I understand, the angels were there just for show and for free beer and for a party. But there was infighting with the Angels to a degree because they had different clubs were up there and there were some younger recruits trying to make their bones. That's completely right. My main source for a lot of that is Sam Cutler. Yeah. Who was right there. I mean, Sam went to work for the for the dead afterwards, worked for him for quite a long time.

Right. But the dead, like by the time the thing went down, they had kind of pulled away from it, right? Cutler's quote is the greatest act of moral cowardice. Was the dead in? Yeah, they just decided they weren't. They heard that, you can see it in the movie, Maisel's movie.

Basically, they're up on the, if I read it right, I think they're up where the helicopters are landing, which is the racetrack above where it was. And they were like bad vibes around. And somebody said they knocked Marty Ballin out on stage. I mean, there's the moment. You know, that's where the philosopher kings, that's where all of that hierarchy,

which had been established in the last five years, was just knocked on its ass. You know, they knocked out a singer, a songwriter. The angels did. They did on stage, right? a singer, a songwriter. The Angels did. They did on stage, right? Now, I got the same read you do,

which is that, you know, the whole Hells Angels in the park, there's lots of depth to this stuff. The whole Hells Angels in the park was really coming out of Ken Kesey and out of that La Honda movement that moved into Golden Gate Park. It was true for the BN and early on. It was what it was.

And they kind of did that. They kind of wandered around. The Angels did. Yeah. And the thing was is that Jagger's looking from across the way. So they were integrated into the counterculture as sort of like a darker element, but they helped define it. We're all freaks together, man.

Right. And Hunter's book talks a lot. I think some of that takes place up at Kesey's freaks together, man. Right. And, and, and Hunter's book, you know, talks a lot of, I think that some of that takes place up at Kesey's place. Yeah, that's right. That's just down the car. I mean,

you know, 35 miles South or something. Right, right. And he was sort of embracing the angels, the original crew. That's right. I mean,

that was, I think that that was part of the opening up, which happened. And then, you know, when you're smoking, this is when you're smoking dope and you're dropping acid, you're an outlaw. Yeah. Right. So everybody got to be on the outlaw side of the fence. Right. But, you know, when you're smoking dope and you're dropping acid, you're an outlaw.

Yeah, right. So everybody got to be on the outlaw side of the fence. Right. But I guess the real issue, what sort of came to a head at Altamont is that, you know, the Hells Angels were real outlaws. They weren't just druggies. They were moving shit and dropping dudes. Yeah, they were.

And they were from all over the state. So, and you got, and I think this is, you know, there's Hells Angels and there's Mick Jagger and they're both paying homage to the devil, but one's in show business. Yeah. And he's English. And the other one's actually working for the devil. Yeah. And they're really, and I interviewed Bill Wyman from that book when I was doing it.

Yeah. And Bill was like, I don't know what happened. You know, he says only the Rolling Stones had only been scared twice, maybe. Well, they like from what you were there. So tell me, I mean, like, because even in those pictures and you can see in the movie and the thing about the movie that I didn't realize is that initially the Maisel brothers were going to create they wanted to shoot a tour in a sort of like a celebration of the Stones way that the original intent was we're going to capture this great rock band

doing a great tour, and then it became this fucking thing. Well, they didn't do the whole tour, for starters. They showed up at the end of the tour, maybe a week before the end, and I think the idea was at that point to get some B-roll, if you will, but that they were really going to shoot, they'd have a live concert. So they shot Madison Square Garden twice, right? Right.

And then this got added. So Jagger announced this on the 26th birthday so i remember jagger announced it on the 26th of november at rockefeller you know rainbow room right and uh and that's when it kind of the word got out so when you get there i mean do you realize that that like hey there's no fucking medical tent there's no bathrooms well i got there so everybody with the exception of keith who I think spent the night out there, right? Everybody came in by helicopter. What do you mean he spent the night out there?

In a trailer? No, I think. God knows. Everybody. Stanley Booth's book is the best book on this. Stanley what? Stanley Booth. Okay.

He was on the whole tour. Yeah. Right? And his book is very sort of modeled on Moby Dick. You know, truly, it's sort of like the alternate chapters like Grapes of Wrath. Okay. Right? Yeah.

Dance with the Devil. Okay. Okay. It's not the Altamont story, but it's a totally deep story. And it has a lot to do with Brian. About the tour? Well, no, and Brian Dye. Okay.

All right. He comes over to England, and he's really involved with Brian. He's from Memphis. He's got a lot to do with Brian. About the tour? Well, no, and Brian died. Okay, all right. He comes over to England, and he's really involved with Brian. He's from Memphis. He's got a lot of chops. Yeah. So some of this I know because he was with him. Right. And then Jagger was with him.

Jagger and Keith were at Altamont the night before. Okay. Keith decides to stay. Yeah. Jagger says, I would stay, but I got to sing. Yeah. Right? So he goes back to the hotel.

But at that point, and everybody that you talk to will tell you that the scene was really mellow, you know? Where, at the beginning? The night before. Oh. And that, the expectation. Wait, when they were building the stage and shit? Oh, no.

People were already showing up. Oh. Oh, really? Oh, sure. Yeah. People. Camping out and shit? Campfires and shit like that, you know?

and campfires and shit like that. And so the expectation, which was my expectation too, my expectation was Woodstock West. It just was. Yeah, it's going to be groovy. It's going to be great. And I didn't really, it took me a, it was a shitty spot. No control. Pictures in the book, you'll see the helicopters landing.

There are people walking across where the helicopters and dogs are there. There's nothing. There's nothing. No security. Right. Everybody was scrambling with the expectation you'd bring it off. Right. Right.

Yeah. And you don't give up. Right. You just do it. But it took me a while to just – the vibe was weird. There wasn't a tree in sight. It was great. i grew up in san francisco i never heard of altamont yeah it looked like a fucking nuclear wasteland yeah

totally yeah and and so i go back to the tent that's all there is is this tent behind the stage and you know there's real hell's angels i'm a californian i know what a hell's angel looks like you know i mean like i said when bill i when Bill, I was interviewing Bill, he was like, well, I don't understand. They were fine in London. And, you know, they were 14. Some of them were wearing wigs. It was a costume party. It was a costume party.

So it's that divide, which you nailed earlier, is so behind all this, right? Yeah, right. And so when I got there, there were real Hells Angels in there. I took a picture. I had flash. I hardly ever use flash. But there was no light, right? And so I took flash and then three Hells Angels look at me like that.

I thought, I'm done. Right. And I can really sympathize with what I think is essentially what they're feeling is, which is, hey, man, you know, this is the 30th show or the 20th show. And if it's not the 20th show of this tour, it's the 400th show we've done since we've been doing this. It's a gig. Yeah, right. The Washington Post just did a huge thing on Altamont, really very good. And they talked to everybody. They talked to Graham and they talked to David Crosby. And they really put a perspective on it that I didn't have because mine was on the inside outside of like the general lack of safety and the chaos and the there's no bathroom people are there all fucking day food is sparse right like you know it's like

you know you're getting this feeling that people volunteered to be stranded in this clusterfuck and and you know that that there was something shifted. The angels were getting more drunk and more fucked up. And the crowd was, you know, sort of there was some bad drugs going around that were being passed around in a liquid form. Right. And it was like the acid was bad. It was, you know, there was speed involved. And that the general vibe once the sun went down turned dark.

Guess what, though? I just figured out was guess who was supposed to play? The sun's got so much heat about waiting for it to get dark. Yeah. Who was supposed to be in that spot? That's right. So you're thinking that the dead, if they just worked their fucking hippie magic,

things would have been different? I'm not saying that, right? Although you never know, right? Right. But you didn't have people sitting there for an hour and a half waiting for the stones to show up. And now I want to read more because I found it very compelling for some reason. Because Altamont is really seen alongside of the Manson murders as sort of the end of it. The end of the arc of the 60s in terms of love and peace and joy and the hippie trip. Right.

It's where it went bad. Right. Right. Right. Metaphorically. Right. Sure. Fair. Why not? Right.

It seemed like the angels were involved in their own sort of like you had these younger recruits that needed to prove themselves. And when the shit hit the fan, it was really an angel's thing. Yeah. I mean, the killer guy. Well, because ain't nobody going to fuck with my bike, man. That's it. That's what it was. Who the fuck they think we are? I think, the killer guy. Well, because ain't nobody going to fuck with my bike, man. That's it. That's what it was, you know?

Who the fuck they think we are? I think these things cost nothing. That was the end of the 60s. Stay away from the bike, man. But listen, that was my question when I finally figured out what my book was going to be. What, this book or that book? No, not this book. I won't talk about this book.

Let It Bleed. But the Let It Bleed book. Yeah. It was, okay, I'm going to ask everybody. It's going to start with where they're born because that was it. It was like Speed. It was like the bus movie. There were 16 people.

And so you start wherever you start. You start in Sweden. You start in England. You start in America. What's it like? And I didn't do it until like 30 years after. Did it haunt you? Oh, yeah.

Because even your pictures, it's sort of like, that doesn't look safe. That doesn't look good. Oh, no, no, no, totally haunted you. And so I asked everybody, but this is going to go right up that English, and I asked Mick Taylor whether he thought it was the end of the 60s, and he said, well, it was December 1969. Are you friends with him? How's he doing?

Well, I think everybody struggled that didn't quit. Yeah. So, all right. So you lived through that. Several other people died of different reasons that day. Well, there was a hit and run. Yeah. And just a real car accident.

A real car accident. But other people could have died. That's for sure. And the possibility that you might die was on everybody's mind. There was no question about it. The scene to remember from it is, is in one way was, so I wanted to get off the stage.

So I've been on the stage every single night, right? And I got on that stage. I come onto the stage, the same stage I've been on every single night is like this. It's buckling. There's so many people on it. Because the angels are there standing in front?

Angels in three, no, on stage. Yeah, that's what I mean, yeah. You know, and them and, you know, 40 others, right? Fans and shit. Yeah, just people, right? And I was like,

I want to be here. They're all wasted, right? Like, chaotically wasted. Yeah, just a mess. And Ian Stewart, do you know who's Ian? Yeah, the piano player, yeah. Well, except the founding member of the Rolling Stones. Right. He's one of the first two, Helen Bryanically wasted. Yeah, just a mess. And Ian Stewart, do you know who's Ian? Yeah, the piano player, yeah. Well, except the founding member of the Rolling Stones.

He's one of the first two, Helen Bryan, right? Yeah. And he's on stage, one of the, I love Ian, but he, one of the sort of, you know, sterner, no-nonsense guys, right? And he looks scared. That was one of the triggers for me. Well, I mean, like, once the shit goes down and they can't get off stage because they've got to finish playing, you know, it's kind of insane.

Totally. Because do you feel that they saw what happened? No. And I know. So I got this. Sam said, anybody who doesn't want to be here, please get off stage. Doesn't need to be here. And I was like, I don't need to be here.

I got all my pictures. After the guy gets stabbed? No, before. Okay. So I'm actually taken off the stage by Hells Angels and put up on top of the truck, and I'm standing right next to the guy that gets that footage of the stabbing, right? You couldn't see. Was it George Lucas?

I heard he was up on the hill with that camera. Well, he might have been on the hill, but he wasn't on the truck behind the stage, right? And a lot of rumors about that show. And so I want to get off. So I'm there for a little bit. I'm not wanting to shoot. I got some good stuff, but only because by the grace of God, right? And so I get off and I want to get to the helicopter.

There's one helicopter. Yeah. Right. There's no lights. And that's the only way these guys can get out is the one helicopter? The helicopter I did is the one helicopter. That's it. And the helicopter is sort of rated to take like 12 people,

and there are like 16 people on it. It's so heavy that it won't take off vertically, right? Yeah. It sort of takes off, goes up a foot, and then drops to the ground again. You know. You're like trying to get out of Saigon. It was exactly like trying to get out of Saigon. And it finally gets over the hill, but just barely, right?

Who's on the helicopter? Jagger, me. Oh, so it's after they finish. It's after they finish. I'm there first because I'm one out of town, right? Because the feeling was it was going to blow. The feeling was you didn't know, but the feeling for me was they ain't going to wait for me. Sure.

But so what happened, it's funny because for some reason, Greal Marcus was there. Right. Before he was, I i guess a nascent reviewer or maybe just a kid right but he actually said that you know after the shit went down you the the stone's fear is tangible i mean but keith you know you know he's he's tough and you believed it he was sort of like get the fuck off the stage or we're not going to play whatever but but you know it's they're they're playing for their life you know those last two songs correct well i think jagger who's got a i think jagger really saw that he was

a focus and he was in particular might be the one that got targeted right but and i was naive enough and this is not another targeted by the angels by anybody oh that he was going to get right i mean he could be targeted by a teenage girl. Right, sure. But by the angel, sure. And Keith is not quite the same position. But I kept thinking, he tried, you know, in fairness. Jagger tried to cool him down? He tried to cool him down. Nobody's listening to him, right?

Right. And I'm naive enough to think, well, he should be able to do something, right? That was just a statement of the way I thought, right? Right. But that's nonsense, right? That was just a statement of the way I thought, right? But that's nonsense, right? And I kept thinking, stop it, right? And so Keith ultimately is the one that wants to stop it, right? And depending on who you talk to, the Washington Post, big sort of effort, you know? I mean, they were with me eight hours, right? And they talked to 50 people.

This is recently? Yeah, like two weeks ago. They did in light of the 50 year anniversary? Yeah, same thing. But I'd never been really kind of seen, you know, like a really reputable organization really pull out the stops, and they really did, right? And it's very interesting in a lot of different ways.

Gave me a perspective I didn't have. Gave me some information I didn't have. Like what? What did Crosby say that changed your mind? Oh, Crosby was sort of, you know, if you don't want your lunch, you don't invite a tiger to lunch. But, you know, for me, so much on the inside, seeing it seen from the outside and with professionals asking the questions and with some distance was pretty interesting. distance was pretty interesting. And you saw the last picture they chose in one of the things that they did is this single individual sitting in this wasteland with just the skeleton of the stage behind them. And whether it was intentionally done to contrast with the sort of 400,000 at Woodstock or not, it tells that story as a bookend, right? Yeah. So what was the vibe on

the fucking helicopter? Oh, just everybody's quiet, completely quiet. Really? Completely quiet. Like, just sort of like, let's go. No, nothing. Just get out of here, out of here, out of here. And then they can't get out of there. And Ronnie Schneider said he pulled a gun on the helicopter guy to make him stay.

Oh, to pick everybody up because he wanted to. I'm gone. So that's some Vietnam shit. No, it was. I mean, the parallel to Vietnam, not to mention the parallel for me of blow up, because the picture of the guy with the gun is I had to blow up like, just like blow up in order to really bring him to front and center. That was your picture?

Which one now? Of the guy with the gun? Oh, no, no. Well, the guy with the gun that you see is not a picture. It's a film. Right, that's right. The film, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I've had to find him. I couldn't find him for years until I did that book. I finally found him, and he's small. You can see him with the green suit. Yeah. But I don't see the stabbing, but I see what... I went and talked to the cop. From your picture.

Yeah. You had him one of yours, right? Right, right. To the cop that opened the cold case, right? Right, right. And we're talking, and the picture I have shows him talking to a guy that's sitting on a speaker right in between him and the stage. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. And he's clearly telling him, you're in my way. Right. Right. So the whole sort of, you know, it was innocence. It was, God knows what it was. Did they ever hang it on a guy?

I mean, did the guy who killed him, the angel that did it? Pissarro. Yeah. Well. It got tangled up, right, with a self-defense trip or what? Well, yeah, I think, you know, I heard that it was if you have a gun and you have a knife, then the guy with the knife gets self-defense. Yeah. Right?

Yeah. I think that's real, too. And the guy with the knife gets self-defense. Yeah. Right? Yeah. I think that's real, too. I think if you hadn't spent the entire afternoon sort of listening to people scream and having to deal with that chaos, he might have been a hero.

Right. Right. Yeah, interesting. Right. Yeah. You know. So you have closure around this shit now? Yeah, I have. Closure might not be the right word.

I have a sense of really having devoted a real amount of time and work to getting something that looked like the real story, you know? Yeah, for yourself. For myself and for, and because I, because the tour, which is again, the sort of, if you take it from a perspective that I had, you know, 18 gigs and they were all spectacular. Yeah. Except for that one. Yeah.

And, and, and what was the, when you regrouped with the Stones in 72, which was a monumental tour. Right. Was it talked about? Oh, the amount of security that was in, you know, people making sure you couldn't get an event. Everybody had security.

I mean, it was so different. In 1969. So the reaction to it was, Oh, yeah. Yeah. Never again. Well, you know, I don't know if it's true or hearsay, but the Hells Angels

that got swept off the boat trying to attack Jagger and Long Island. They got in a boat and were going to come in. Oh, they had a vended, Sonny Barger had a vended on them. Yeah, because he bad-mouthed them. He bad-mouthed them a lot. So it's not that simple. Right, right. But they definitely had it. And so the start of the 72 Tour, everybody had a lot. So it's not that simple. Right, right. But they definitely had it.

And so the start of the 72 tour, everybody had a gun. Everybody had, I don't know, everybody had a bodyguard. Yeah, yeah. And Astrid, who's Bill Wyman's significant other, had their seven-year-old in. And the guy's in there. And she offers him some tea. And she goes to make the tea. And then when she comes out, the guy's showing her 10-year-old kid his silencer.

Oh, great. So you're on the plane for that whole thing? Yeah. Well, for two-thirds of that tour. Love that picture of Terry Southern and Keith. Yeah. Well, thanks. Terry was not well.

No, I know. It's too bad. Right. Because he was sort of an amazing talent that just got fucking destroyed himself. That's right. Totally. And wasn't pleasant when I met him. I mean, you know, I know, you know.

He wasn't well with the compulsion. He was, you know, in that kind of, you know, inflated, you know, egomaniac, you know, alcoholic, drug addict nonsense. Yeah. That's kind of what it was, you know. And, yeah, it's so funny that, you know, Keith justaniac, you know, alcoholic, drug addict nonsense. Yeah. That's kind of what it was, you know. And yeah, it's so funny that, you know,

Keith just sort of survived them all. Yes. Because he was always like, you know, oddly careful in a way. Like in terms of

what he was putting into his body. You know, he got the best shit. I think there's something in that. You know, I don't know.

I didn't do that stuff. That wasn't my particular thing. But, and, because I look dangerous to me, you know i don't know i didn't do that stuff that wasn't my particular thing uh but uh and because i look dangerous to me you know yeah you know and so and also keith has been magnificent in more recent years in terms of how generous he's been he's been very generous with a lot of people and both in terms of how he thought he's a very bright guy like when i read that when i read the book i'm like this guy's not just some dumb junkie it's a fucking deep dude yeah deep is a good word and

it's just that like i'm gonna take a step three feet to the side and just look what it looks like from here yeah you know kind of thing yeah and and generous with that and so the survival part of it clearly he gets that he got lucky. Genetics, man. And luck. And luck, right, yeah. I met him, I interviewed him, and I was a little beside myself, but it was pretty great. Well, I didn't say five words to him in the whole 69 tour, and there were only 16

of us. There was just no reason, you know? Was he a big talker? I think if he talked about things he cared about. And so Stanley Booth, again, since they could talk Memphis and music and stuff, they talked. talker i think if you talked about things he cared about oh yeah right and so stanley booth again since they could talk memphis and music and stuff they talked right but i couldn't talk that so now let's talk about i get like there's so many great things obviously i'm not getting to in the book there's you know you did you know like they're we're talking about the stones we're talking

about lennon we're talking about we've been you got you got zap in there you got ronstadt in there you got the eagles in there you've got um i think it was a John Hyatt series in there. But these are seminal shots that a lot of people will be familiar with. But to see them all together, it's really, because I like coffee table books and I like art books and I like photo books. But a lot of times when you're looking at celebrity photos, especially ones you're familiar with, you're like, do I need that? But this book I've gone back to over and over again because these are, you know, these are, you know, just singular pictures of these people. Well, and I did it for my son.

That's why I did it. You know, I'm 70, whatever I am, four, and my son's 16. Yeah. Right. So I got a really young son. And I thought, you know, whenever I shuffle off, you know, because, you know, could be. Sure. You know?

I wanted something for him. And so the whole thing is that I kick-started it. Yeah. I controlled it completely. I spent exactly as much money as it needed to be to be as good as it could be. Yeah. And it's for him, and that's the legacy of it. And it wasn't, it was like, it's done. Do you And it's for him, and that's the legacy of it. And it wasn't,

it was like, it's done. Do you know what I mean? I did it. He's got it. It's real. The purity of this is really interesting, and it's because of all, you can only get it from my website.

Yeah. I'm not giving it to, you know, Jeff Bezos. Publishers, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I'm just not, you know? It's for, right now, it's for it to be pure, and I think the purity of it

is a little bit of what you respond to. Oh, yeah. You know, it's for it to be pure. And I think the purity of it is a little bit of what you respond to. It's really beautiful. It couldn't be better printed. What's the website? EthanRussell.com. It's a great gift for your dad. Right. Come on, kids. So when I went, I took my son when he was like nine to the stones in Oakland.

Yeah. Right. And he fell asleep. God bless him. Right? But the previous time that I'd been in Oakland with the Rolling Stones, my dad had been in the audience. Oh, yeah? Yeah. So it was like that thing.

Did he like it? My dad, his response was, that Benny Goodman's a real, not Benny Goodman, that B.B. King's a real showman. Oh, he opened for him? Yeah. Now there's pictures of B.B. in there too and Benny Goodman in the book. Yeah, right. I like the little, the thing you said about Benny Goodman is that you didn't feel like experienced enough so you're shooting him like a rock guy. Yeah, exactly. Because you got that upshot.

Yeah, I know. I spent my life thinking Robert Plant was nine feet tall. They're all dwarves. Right, right, right. You know. It's that angle, man. It is. It is a hero angle. It sure is. Yeah. But like so in closing, the how the p on the wall happened oh so the that point i got hired to talk to pete to do a cover they needed a cover

they'd had three didn't like them right yeah and i was at that point very much like singer songwriter singer songwriter i'm gonna do something so i spent all this time talking to pete about lifehouse and everything nothing happened. They said, we need a cover. Come to the Midlands. They were playing some live gigs. So we did. The back cover was shot then.

It's really terrible. The back cover is instantly forgettable. Hence, you're trying to remember. Yeah, that's right. Forgettable. And so we're driving back. It's in the rain. Pete drives like 100 miles an hour

crazy in the rain. Yeah. On those roads. On those roads. I scared the shit out of him. But anyway, so we're now a little caravan. Not many. Just three cars, I think. miles an hour crazy in the rain yeah right i on the way on those roads on those roads i scared the shit out of me but anyway so we're now a little caravan not many just three cars i think right there's no you know there's none of the nonsense you have today yeah it's just not there yeah and so pete's going so and it's a good shot and you don't need the nonsense you know

and we drive in by and and and i see these shapes and we go up there, and we do the – you can see it in here. They've never been published. The shapes. Were they just these monoliths, these concrete? Well, today, if you go to where that is, you see this much monolith, and it's all grass. And it was a tip, as the Brits call it, right? They put garbage in it. They fill it up.

Oh. That's what all those were. There were a couple others off camera, right? It's a dump. It's a dump. It's a dump, it's basically a dump. And then, and so I'm, they're doing the apes and I'm thinking the apes are cool, but I don't know. Like 2001?

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, cause that's what it is, right? It looks like the monolith. It looks like the monolith. And then I'm thinking that's kind of cool, but don't really know what to do with it.

And I don't, I'm not a guy that sits there going, I got this idea. But that'd be a joke cover. Yeah, that's right. So I didn't think that was it. And then while I'm wondering what the fuck it is, I look up and Townsend's peed on it. So Townsend's real pee, the others are all film cans of water. I went, oh, okay, got that. So and then we did the other one.

I didn't do much. It's a hoss of blood with a Polaroid back yeah and and I took 14 shots yeah do you know yeah okay guys let's go and then we're driving down the motorway and I'm thinking oh geez I hope I got that you know because that was pretty good yeah it was great yeah it's a monumental cover on a monumental record yeah And you did a few of them. But I honestly, like, I don't, like, we never met. And, you know, I don't know why, you know, I'm so happy you sent it to me. Because I opened it. I'm like, what is this?

And you got Keith on the cover. So right away, I'm like, I'm in. And I just love it, man. And it was like, again, I'm at the far end of the boomer thing. So I really missed most of this. But when I was a kid growing up, I mean, it was what I worshipped. So it was like, oh, it's great.

And great job. And it was great talking to you. Yeah, you too. Thank you. Yeah, man. All right. There you go. Good talk.

Great talk. The book is The Best Seat in the House, and it's available as a book and as an interactive digital version at ethanrussell.com. And tomorrow, meditate a little on the fact that December 6th, tomorrow, is the 50th anniversary of Altamont,

the free concert where a man was killed in the Rolling Stones. Just chaos. Barely made it out out i don't know what would have happened none of us do and now i will play some some sad music with my thumb and my other finger i'm that's the direction i'm going two fingers all right yep don't make it dirty Thank you. Boomer lives. We can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth

at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5pm in Rock