WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1082 - Jimmy Tingle

Episode Date: December 23, 2019

Jimmy Tingle has a lot in common with Marc and many other Boston-based WTF guests. But what sets Jimmy apart is the merger of his comedy with politics and civic engagement. Jimmy tells Marc about his sobriety, his shift toward one-man shows and his focus on societal issues, which eventually led to him getting into Harvard in his mid-50s, giving the commencement address, and running for office. They also talk about how Jimmy wound up in the Andy Rooney spot on 60 Minutes 2 and his influential friendship with Howard Zinn. This episode is sponsored by quip and American Express. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

Lock the gate! All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucksters? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF.

This is it. This is it. This is holiday week. Jimmy Tingle is on the show today. Jimmy Tingle is a comedian who I've known forever from Boston. He's got a thing coming up. He's got a big show coming up at the Wilbur Theater in Boston this Saturday, December 28th. He came out to talk to me and do a couple other things, but it's always nice to get into the groove with a Boston guy, to get into that rhythm. Mac, how are you? Nice to see you, Mac. Hey, Mac, what's up? How are you, Mac? Everything all right, Mark? But Jimmy's here, so that'll be happening shortly.

Today is the second day of Hanukkah, I believe. And I don't know. For those of you who don't, I don't get caught up in the whole happy holidays, Merry Christmas, happy Hanukkah, happy Kwanzaa, happy... I don may I maybe I'm just not as sensitive because generally I mean the appropriate thing to do it's just a it's a matter of um of habit I guess you know when you know when somebody says Merry Christmas I say I'm a Jew I'm a Jew and that's awkward for them but you know i mean i think that's the proper response merry christmas to you i am a jew why do you say that to me i think it's fine to react that way you know happy holidays mike yeah but can you be more specific well merry christ. I'm a Jew. God damn it.

So I think that's the proper response to Merry Christmas. Even if you're not a Jew, it's fun to get that angry. Let's try to be nice. Look, it is the second day of Hanukkah. And for those of you who don't know what Hanukkah is, I'm not sure I'm clear either, but I'm pretty sure it's when the Jews killed Jesus and burned him over eight different nights, piece by piece. I believe that's it. And there's nine candles, I think. And the ninth candle represents Jesus, his arm, which we cut off first, the Jews that did it, and somehow managed.

The miracle of it is that they were able to light the finger of that arm, and it burned for eight days. They were able to light the other pieces of Jesus. And they lined all these pieces up like a menorah. That's where the menorah shape comes from. When they cut up jesus they they they stuck him in they in eight different places and they slowly set fire over of him over um over the eight days of hanukkah i'm pretty sure that's a story i might be conflating that with a anti-semitic

conspiracy theory i'm not positive but maybe i should google that maybe i maybe i'm way off i'm way off because maybe i'm confusing with christmas isn't it isn't christmas when santa the original christmas is when santa killed jesus and then gave his parts away over no no no i oh man oh it's a birthday i'm sorry it's a jesus birthday wow merry christmas i'm a jew god damn it um i hope you are having a happy hanukkah and i hope your christmas is uh pleasant as well because i will not talk to you that was a heavy way to start i'll agree with that the dark satire maybe just crass morbid religious jokes not for everybody perhaps not funny i want you to have a good christmas and and try to treat each other nice this there's always the possibility this

could be it i mean christmas could be filled with nuclear chaos, Korean nuclear chaos. We don't know. Maybe the whole thing will go up. That's negative. Look, just enjoy your loved ones. I hope you get some good presents. I hope you didn't buy the wrong present. That's the worst thing, buying the wrong present for the people in your life the people you love here's a present why that face oh my god is it over am i an asshole should i go hang myself in the bathroom with the present i bought you will that sweater work its way into a noose so i um i got back from atlanta the other day down there a week and, and I think some of the scenes, a lot of times I don't know if I'm doing a good job and I don't know if acting is fun or it's a job. I don't know what I'm doing sometimes. But by the third day, when I was doing scenes with Jennifer Hudson and Marlon Wayans, it was pretty good.

We had some good times times had some good laughs and you know jennifer's very pleasant it was good to hang out with marlin who's a comedian as well and have some laughs but i'll tell you the the last night of uh the shoot you know they were long days they're you know at least 12 hour days and the final dinner was sort of a christmas party where a lot of the people that had already been shooting some of the kids came and who were in the movie and they the you know the caterers did a you know kind of a there was lobster tails and filet mignon and stuff but it was you know it you know catering and and being on a film set is a full diversity of people with different jobs uh all different levels of jobs all different types of people and it was just sort of a full diversity of people with different jobs, all different levels of jobs, all different types of people.

And it was just sort of a communal kind of event. It wasn't orchestrated in any way. There was a food line, a buffet. But they brought in some local, I believe, local people to sing Christmas carols. There was someone playing piano and a few people singing that they brought in. And it was it was sort of a mess hall vibe and then jennifer hudson came in and they don't you know the big stars they don't always eat with us uh us littler stars and the gaffers and the uh sound people and

the makeup people they they sometimes they just eat in their trailer they have their special food but it was sort of a christmas thing she came now when you're jennifer hudson and there's people at microphone singing songs you're gonna be pressured to maybe sing a song and she didn't seem to want to do it at first i was kind of watching it and she didn't but it was kind of interesting because they were singing uh i don't know one of one of the jesus songs and um and i felt i saw her just sort of kind of moving in, but being pulled in by the music, not by the need to entertain or by the need to, um, perform, but by, you know, she just, you know, when you, when singing is what you do and there's a, the possibility to do some singing, you know, you, you get pulled to do it. And I saw her gradually move up there.

And I've not seen her perform. I don't know her work, really. I know she's got a great voice. But I'll tell you, man, I mean, when she got on the mic and started singing sort of with this other woman in a harmony, like, it just brings fucking tears to your eyes singing for me sometimes especially a spiritual or standard or whatever but to hear her effortlessly do what she does right there in just a disorganized little room where people are eating dinner at a buffet you

know it just it was uh it was just very moving i got all choked up i don't even know, it just, it was, uh, it was very moving. I got all choked up. I don't even know where it came from, but it was pretty fucking awesome. And I'll tell you, the sets look great. Uh, everything, the period looks great. It turned out to be pretty, pretty great, uh, experience down there. And I'm going back after new years. So I just wanted to give you a update on that situation, the Respect movie. Again, you never know how much of you is going to end up in the movie, but it started to get comfortable towards the end there.

And I got home here and Monkey and Buster are okay. I'd been gone a week, but there was people here at the house the whole time I was gone. So they had people and I'm trying not to project sadness onto my cats now that fonda is gone um but uh but it's hard you know monkey's old as well he's 15 plus years and he's like you know the medicine's working for the hyperthyroid and he seems good his weight's good his energy His energy's good. And Buster's fat. Can't get him to eat wet food, but he eats the dry kidney food. But they both seem a lot more sociable. Well, Monkey's been very warm, but Buster's a little...

Maybe it's just now Buster can get equal attention. I really paid a lot of attention to my older cats, to the original crew, than I did him. And I don't know. They seem okay. I'm just trying not to look at monkey and think he's sad okay so merry christmas i'm a jew my guest jimmy tingle uh i go way back with jimmy actually i mean it's not like we were close but i always knew jimmy he's one of

those boston guys he's definitely a political comic but he's sort of an everyman guy. And, you know, he went into politics a bit. He ran for office in Boston, I think, for lieutenant governor. I'll talk to him about that. But, you know, his story is sort of interesting. He was a bartender at one of the original kind of Boston comedy venues. But he's just always been there. Jimmy Tingle.

Jimmy Tingle. Fucking Jimmy Tingle. And he's here today. He's got a big gig at the Wilbur Theater in Boston this Saturday, December 28th. It's Jimmy Tingle's 2020 vision. And you can go to JimmyTingle.com for tickets and all things Jimmy. And this is me. He flew out to do

a couple of things out here, this being one of them. It was a real pleasure to catch up with Jimmy Tingle. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes.

We can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all Thank you. but you flew in from from logan yes beautiful logan airport it's so funny yeah i know i i flew into boston not too long ago to do the show the schubert and uh it's been it's i don't go there often right but i spent a lot of time there in my life.

And I don't recognize, it's a new tunnel. There's a new bridge. It doesn't seem like the same airport. It's better. Yeah. Right? Oh, yeah. They changed everything. Yeah. It's built up a lot over the last 20 years. It really has. But what part did you grow up in? Cambridge. You grew up in Cambridge? Yeah. Like in Project Cambridge? Born and raised. No. Is it one of those hard luck Irish tales? No, no, no. Where'd you grow up? No, right in the middle.

Right in the middle. Yeah. In between, well, if you know the city, you know Central Square. Yep. And you know Inman Square, what the ding-ho was. Right. I grew up in the middle, right in between those two squares, and then between Harvard and Kendall.

Wow. Yeah, so we had MIT like a mile to one side, Harvard a mile to the other side, Inman Square two blocks one way, Central Square two blocks the other way. So I was right in the middle. And from a big family? I'm the oldest of four. Big Italian family. I'm half Italian.

You are? Yeah. So my mother is from the city. I had no idea. And she's got a big family. She'm half Italian. You are? Yeah. So my mother is from the city. I have no idea. Yeah. And she's got a big family. She was the youngest of 10. What's her maiden name?

Digulielmo. Digulielmo? Digulielmo. D-E capital G-U-G-L-I-E-L-M-O. Wow. I had no idea. Yeah. I thought you were just one of the Irish Boston guys.

No. Half Italian. My father is from the South, actually. He's from North Carolina. actually he's from north carolina so he's irish english irish scottish swedish and uh and so he's uh protestant yeah and so they met you know yeah via their uh their actual siblings my mother's brother yeah married my father's sister oh they met during the war it's a long story but they met down in north carolina she was a waitress and he was-

He was stationed there? He was stationed there. He was in the Marines, yeah. It's so funny because I don't know why I made the assumption just because of the McDonald's and the Sweeney's and the- Sure. No, people make that assumption all the time. You assume like you must be from the Irish immigrants.

Right. You must- We're from the Italian immigrants. From everybody. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Your mother came over from- Oh, yeah.

Her parents did. Yeah, her mother did when she was like three. And they ended up in Cambridge. Yeah. They settled there. It was not far from the North End, actually. Yeah. As a matter of fact, when they were growing up, they went to the North End to church because

there was no Italian church in East Cambridge. And it was like a mile walk. Not too far, but it was that whole area. Well, it's interesting because you're the oldest of four yeah and they ever with anyone else in show business anyone else make that mistake no I started in the open mics mark with you you know I remember 80 81 right well I mean it would be you were at BU? No, this was earlier. Okay. Because I remember, I vaguely remember the first time maybe I went to the Ding Ho, because I didn't really start performing stand-up until like the summer of 84. Okay.

Like when I was at BU. Okay. Really. But in 81, like I remember going to the Ding Ho maybe when, and you were like a bartender there still. Is that possible? Yeah. Yeah.

I was a bartender, daytime bartender and open mic performer. And I was doing open mics and did one open mic, fell in love with the place, told Lenny. I knew Lenny from high school. Lenny Clark. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I knew him from high school.

You knew him from high school? I did. Yeah. He was the, we went to the same high school. In Cambridge? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cambridge Latin. Did they grow up there? Yeah. Oh, I didn't realize that. Yeah. Yeah. I knew him from high school. You knew him from high school? I did, yeah. We went to the same high school. In Cambridge? Yeah, yeah. Cambridge Latin. Did they grow up there?

Yeah. Oh, I didn't realize that. Yeah, yeah. Lenny Clark. Yeah. Mike Clark. And he was hosting the- Mike Clark.

Yeah. He was hosting the Wednesday night open, Mike night. I did it. It had a blast doing it. But did you work- And I got a job there. Oh, okay. So that's how that happened.

Yeah. But before that, were you that, what were you doing? Were you a troublemaker? No. In high school? Because Lenny seems like he would have been a troublemaker. Lenny was the class president. No kidding.

Yes. Yes. No, I knew Lenny. We played sports together. He was on the football team. Lenny Clark was the class president. Yeah, yeah. Of his class.

He started in politics. You ended in it. Yeah. How'd that happen happen i don't know he was a popular kid huh no he was just uh you know he was the class president he was always a uh you know a sort of a leader uh-huh you know and he was um he was into politics yeah and uh so no kidding so i knew him So when he was hosting the open mic nights, I- But what were you, in college?

Did you go to college before you entered? Yeah, yeah. But he was, you know, when I got out of school, I lived in the neighborhood. In undergrad. History, education. Oh, really? Yeah. You know what got me into it, really?

It was the movie Lenny. The movie, when the movie Lenny came out, it was like- Dustin Hoffman, Lenny Bruce. Yeah, yeah. That was an awesome movie. And then, of course, Saturday Night Live was on the air. Who were your favorite comics, though, at that time? Probably, well, before I started, probably Lenny-

Oh, excuse me, Lenny Bruce. Yeah. But as a kid, Jackie Gleason, The Honeymooners. Right. You know, those guys were great. Yeah. Hot, hot, Connie. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Watching those guys every Sunday night hot hot connie yeah yeah yeah watching those

those guys uh you didn't watch much stand-up when you were a kid not a lot no yeah not oh let me think not really yeah but as we got older you know with what sat night live and they came on the air and then the movie lenny and then it just started the whole scene started in boston really my major influences were not with the- Were the local guys. The local guys. Theoretically, the Lenny Bruce type trying to say something and make people laugh at the same time.

I was always into that. I thought it was a great format. Yeah, I remember going there. I don't know if I was, I can't remember the year, but I remember Lenny, it must have been on a Lenny Clark night. I don't think I performed, but I remember you were probably still drinking. You were kind of sweaty.

And you had a harmonica through most of it. Oh, yeah. I did songs. When I first started, I didn't really know what I was doing. I had a trench coat. I was trying to do like a Blues Brothers thing. I had shades, sunglasses. I had a beard, natural, long hair, trench coat.

Really? Yeah, yeah. Trench coat, hat, sunglasses. I do these songs. I'm a test tube baby. I'm a test tube baby. That's why I got the blues. Was that like the test tube baby song?

Yeah, the test tube baby blues. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just song parodies, things like that, when I first started. And doing the open mic nights. Well, like who was, like what year are we talking, 81? 80. 80. 80, 81.

And that was really the beginning of the Ding Ho scene? Yeah, 79, 80. So it was, who was it? Barry Crimmins. Barry Crimmins and Lenny Clark. Barry was the, yeah, Barry was sort of the founder. Yeah. And Lenny was doing the open mics on Wednesdays.

Oh, okay, so it was really Barry's brainchild. Yeah, yeah. And Barry at that time was also a sweaty, angry, politically driven, smoking cigarettes madman. But always political, correct? Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah, we all kind of evolved. Right, sure. You know, you find out what you? Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. We all kind of evolved into it. Right, sure.

You find out what you're good at and what you like. But who was around? You're driven by passion. Yeah. Who was around? At the very beginning. Paula Poundstone, Stephen Wright, Jack Gallagher, Steve Sweeney, Mike McDonald, Mike Donovan. They were all coming in?

They were all. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That was the original crew. That was the original crew. Lauren Dombrowski. yeah dennis leary yeah uh really bobby goldthwait uh were there early kenny rogerson moved to town but they were at the ding yeah oh no kidding yeah yeah i remember kenny i remember but this is you're saying 1980 81 81 they probably got there goldthwait probably got there you know 82 83 maybe yeah paula was

there and she went to san francisco a lot of them like who went kevin meanie yeah he came from san franc i think he came from san francisco and he went back no he stayed in boston for a long time he made a big big uh big mark i think he influenced a lot of people yeah you know that sort of persistence of him. You know what he did? Yeah. Him and, he and Sweeney. Yeah.

He did a great thing, the Sweeney Meany Night. Yeah, I remember that. And they would do that. At Stitches? Yes. And they really brought a form of improv to stand up. There really wasn't, it was always like, you either did improv or you did stand up. But those guys would go on together and they just had a blast.

And it was all, it was all off the top of the head. Yeah, I remember. Off the cuff. And he'd go out in the street with the mic, and they'd follow him with the camera. That's right. And show it on the screen in stitches. I remember that. And it was hilarious.

It was funny. And Meany just had this cadence and this pace. Yeah. He was not going to not let you laugh. Right. He was just going to keep pushing. And Kenny, too. And he always dressed up, too. Yeah. He was just going to keep pushing. And Kenny, too. And he always dressed up, too.

Yeah. He was always dressed up. In a bow tie. Sometimes. Sometimes, I think so. But the blazer. He always had the blazer. Yep.

He often had a tie. Sometimes, I think a bow tie. Yep. And he looked so different than the audience for the most part at that time. Those crazy times. And Donovan was so funny. Yeah. But I said, I used to go to Play It Against Sam's to watch people.

Chris Collins. Yeah. Oh, man, he was scary. And Chance. Chance Langdon. Chance was down at Play It Against Sam's. Barry Katz was the booker. Why do people suck?

Yeah. Why do people suck? DJ. DJ, yeah. Bob Lazarus. Yeah. Rich Seisler. Yeah.

You know, Kylie. Yeah, Kylie, Yeah. Rich Seisler. Yeah. You know, Kylie. Yeah, Kylie, yeah. Brian Kylie, right? Yeah. He started there. And there were other guys that were just come and go. A lot of them. Yeah.

Yeah, there was some crazy shit. So, all right. But it wasn't an industry town, Mark. No, I know, but it was a regionally, it became a regional powerhouse. Yes. Because it was one of the few places where you could actually make a living because of the one-nighters, that Mike Clark, Barry Katz, Roger Paul. There were all these gigs all over the place that you could make a couple hundred bucks on a Wednesday night. But I remember like, okay, so let's go through the arc of it.

So do you remember when Stephen Wright first showed up? Yeah. Oh, no. He was there before me. Oh, he was? Yeah, I remember the night, though, he got booked for The Tonight Show. That's a big deal, right? It was a big deal. Peter LaSalle was coming into town.

His daughter was working at going to Emerson. And he called the ding-ho. I was the daytime bartender. So he called the ding-ho, and he wants directions. He says, I'm coming in. I want to put up to— he had arranged this previously with Barry. Right. But he said, I'm coming from Emerson.

How do I get to the Ding Ho in Inman Square? And I'm going, well, you go down Cambridge Street, you take a right in Inman Square, Springfield Street, go into the parking lot. Anyway, but what happened, they set up an audition that night. Yeah. And I remember I got a gig out of it because I wasn't, I didn't make the cut to be on that level. I wasn't on that level, but they had to cancel a gig

and they had a couple of comics booked in New Haven. So I got the gig in New Haven. So that was cool. I got $200. You took a ride? Yeah, yeah, I took a ride. Me and Tommy Gilmore. Me and Tommy Gilmore.

Tom Gilmore. And Chance, I think, might have been in it. And Chance, Tom Gilmore. Yeah. Wow. So anyway, we went to New Haven, and Peter LaSalle came in, saw 15 comics, top people, and loved Wright.

And that was that. And the next night, the next night, they put him on The Tonight Show. It was the next night? It was the next night or the night after. No kidding. Stephen will tell you exactly. Yeah, it was like within two or three days,

and then Johnny wanted him back the next night. That's crazy. So it was fun watching it. We all watched it afterwards in the back room. It's inspirational. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Now, where does the booze play into that?

Like, you know, how do you- Everybody was drinking. Everybody was drinking. That was part of the deal. Barry ran the place. Barry Cremins. I deal with the Chinese restaurant was that the comics drink for free right so you and kenny all of us hard drinking you know all of us meanie yeah you know and it was free there were some guys that didn't drink

as much as others but there was something that drank a lot yeah but i think kenny's sober now yeah kenny's sober yeah and uh quitting drinking was a huge thing quitting drinking but let's like let's get through it so so okay so you just walk you're working regionally you're doing you're closing with the harmonica well you know i eventually dropped it i did it for about six months or so that was it yeah i didn't do it very long yeah maybe a year maybe a year but you're doing the regional gigs yeah regional gigs coming gigs, coming down to New York. Remember Comedy Tonight? Yeah.

That was cool. Bill Boggs doing that in the early 80s. Early 80s. It was a real TV show. Yeah, it was the first one. Was that in New York or in Boston? Yeah, that was in New York. Comedy Tonight, right, and he had this big head.

I remember you'd sit there with him. I remember it was one of the first experiences of seeing someone who was on television up close for me. Like to be on TV and to realize like, wow, makeup really hides a lot of this shit. That's what I remember about Bill Boggs. It was like an interview show, right? When I did it, it was basically stand-up. You did like five minutes. But didn't you talk to the guy?

Three minutes. I don't remember if I talked. Yeah, I think so. I think so. But anyway, that that was like a first like tv that was your first tv yeah the comedy time a lot of comics did it all the comics in new york did it in the mid 80s yeah but even earlier i think yeah probably 83 84 and then did you end up doing like carolines and yeah carolines and evening at the improv i did I think I did one of those. I'm not sure if I did Evening at the Improv, but Caroline's Star Search. Yeah.

Remember when they had the Star Search auditions? I didn't do it. Yeah, you did it? Oh, yeah. I did it with Meany. Meany did it. I lost to Evan Davis my first time. Yes.

But Ed McMahon's daughter would come up. She came up. Where? Really, to Cambridge, to Boston. Yeah. Saw everybody at Stitches. Yeah. And, of Where? Really, to Cambridge, to Boston. Yeah. Saw everybody at Stitches. Yeah. And of course, they're looking for a TV act.

Yeah. Who can work clean for three minutes or two minutes or whatever it was. So I got it. Meany got it. I think maybe Jack Gallagher. I'm not sure. That makes sense. Yeah.

It's so funny. Those guys are like, I can't do three minutes clean. I know. That's what I mean about not being an industry town. It was just freelance, man. How the fuck am I going to do this? Nobody was trying to get on television because there was no television. How am I going to do three minutes?

That's why when Wright got on, it was such a momentous thing. Yeah. Because all of a sudden, holy, you know, people can actually go to another level. You can actually be a pro. Yeah. Tom Gilmore, I just placed him. Because I knew the name and it took me a while to get his face. Yeah. Did that guy, is he still doing it? Yeah, he's still around. Yeah. Tom Gilmore, I just placed him. Because I knew the name and it took me a while to get his face. Yeah.

Did that guy, is he still doing it? Yeah, he's still around. Yeah. Great joke writer. People like Brian Kiley, unbelievable writers. Oh, for sure. Just hilarious. So when did you start talking about politics, though?

You know, when I, honestly. It's a big shift from song parody to politics. Yeah, but even the song parodies had something to them. They were just, you know, it was a very low-level attempt at social commentary. But I just, you know, what happens is, as you know, you kind of gravitate with what you're interested in. Right. You know, you just kind of go, like in college, I studied sociology and history. You know, and I was into, minored in education, so I was interested in politics.

Did you ever teach? I was interested in current events. No, but I was a certified, technically a certified teacher. No kidding. When I graduated, yeah, I was certified in Massachusetts. I never did actually teach, though. Because I remember there was a period there, I guess in the 80s, where there was sort of a, for that time, a small heyday for political comics,

and there was only a few of them. Yeah. Because there was like that record. Weren't you on that record with Strange Bedfellows? Yes. It was you and Crimmins and Durst. Me, Crimmins, Durst, and Randy Credico. Randy Credico.

Yeah. That was like a big deal, that CD. That was 88. That was 88. That was that late into it. I think that. Yeah. So by that time, you had sort of like established yourself. You wore a blazer. Yeah. That was 88. That was that late into it. I think that. Yeah. Yeah. So by that time, you had sort of like established yourself.

You wore a blazer. Yeah. And you were kind of a straight up kind of populist politics guy. Yeah. Well, it started probably. It's populist. Yeah. Proletariat.

Working class. Yeah. Meat and potatoes. Yeah. Come on, people. What the fuck is going on here? Yeah. I think so.

So when does that, when do you start really kind of- Well, common sense, you know, is another way of just common sense. But it was probably 80, you know, I quit drinking 87, 88. How did that happen? Yeah. How did it happen? How did it happen? Well, I mean, like-

People started going downhill, man, people started going downhill, man. People started going downhill, you know, and that's what really what happened. Last year, the drinking, you know,

three friends died, three funerals. Really? That I was using with, yeah. And it just, you know, it was like,

holy shit, you know, party's over. Were you doing blow and booze? Just, you know, yeah, yeah.

And regular shit. Yeah. And, uh, it's feeling like you're dying yourself you know yeah i just wanted i started calling places and this is actually one of the reasons i eventually ran for office because of the need who we have right now for people to get into treatment oh no it's like anyway so i'm calling places this is christmas 87 december 87 and i'm getting the runaround. You hit the bottom in Christmas? Yeah. December, mid-December.

Going out Christmas shopping. Can't get past noon. Can't get to the stores. You got a big, all this cash. I want to do this Christmas shopping. I need a drink. You can't drink and you can't not drink. So were you like, you were kind of really dug in with the addiction,

like you woke up, you drank kind of shit? At the end, yeah. Oh, yeah. You had to feel normal, just to feel normal. Right, right. Just to take the edge off. How old were you? I was early 30s.

Yeah. So you had a pretty good go of it. Yeah. Well, you know, the drinking age turned 18. I turned 18 the same month yeah you had to start yeah man and it was like a new sport it was a new sport yeah everybody was you know it was just a new sport and everybody it started off so much fun as you know it starts off so much fun and then bad shit happens you know and also when you live in the

life you know that like it's one thing when you're in high school or college, but when you're doing like comedy and you're living the life. Oh, man. Where you fucking go and you're drinking before you go on and after you go on and you get the free drinks and there's no reason to get up during the day, you're just fucked. And they're giving you money. Yeah. And you're making money. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. And you're like, you're going, it's like in your own little world, you're like your own little rock star in this own little place, right? In Boston, it was sort of easy, especially for you guys who come out of there, to be rock stars. I mean, you've got work. I mean, I remember working there when I had to open for dudes. I don't remember driving you anywhere.

Yeah. But, you know, I drove around. Yeah, that's how I started. What were you there, Mark, doing that? The mid-'80s, late-'80s? Yeah, I mean, I won. You know, I came in second in the riot in 88, right? So that's when I really, when I started working.

Okay. Right. So then I had my 25, 30 minutes and Barry was giving me work opening for the two man shows. You know, I drive a headliner and go do a half hour. Barry Katz? Yeah. Yeah.

You know, for Boston Comedy Company. Right. But that's really how I first started paying my dues was doing the half hour slot in front of the 45 minute closer on those road gigs. Right. And I drove the best of them. Yeah.

I was there for the Johnny E's. I did them all. Oh, yeah. Poncho Villas and Lemonster. I did the Taunton Regency. I was there, man. I was there. How about the, what's the one in Plymouth?

The Naughty Pine. Sure. The Naughty Pine. Oh, no. I think it was Plymouth or Quincyughty Pine. Sure. The Naughty Pine. Oh, no. I think it was Plymouth or Quincy. That was a connection room, right? And there was another one, Charlie something's where they got the Bruins on behind you. Yeah, yeah.

And you're in the middle of your act and someone scores a goal and everybody cheers. Yeah, it's a fucking, wait, the Naughty Pine. That was a long running one. Yeah, that ran for a while. Remember the Tipperary? Yeah. The Tipperary one. I remember I did the Tipper running one. Yeah, that ran for a while. Remember the Tipperary? Yeah. The Tipperary one. I remember I did the Tipperary Pub.

Yeah. I don't even remember what part of Boston that was in, but I did it with Bob Seibel. Yeah. The madman. Rest in peace. Rest in peace. A lot of them now, huh? Yeah.

But anyway, I was in New York by the time you started doing that. I was already in New York. Right. I remember. But you start calling people to get sober and you couldn't get hold of anybody? Oh, no. No. I was calling detoxes, rehabs, treatment centers. And nothing? Eventually, I got in. Cambridge City Hospital. Cambridge City Hospital. The man said, how unusual is this? I said, listen, man, I really need help. And he said,

you called the right place. I went in, stayed seven days through Christmas 1987. I got out. I moved to New York. I focused on stand-up comedy and recovery, and that's all I did for a year. A year later, to the week, I went on The Tonight Show with Johnny. No kidding. Yeah.

And it was like, and my friend Colin Quinn said, Jimmy, if you stop drinking, man, you can really be a good comic. So he was there for you. He was. Yeah. Solid recovery guy. Yeah. He was. Solid recovery guy. Yeah. Yeah. And he's really helpful.

So that's amazing because I, like, I know where you lived because there's this weird thing and I think we talked about it off the mics once before. I remember

when Frankie Bastille Frankie. Moved to Boston. Yep. I, you know, he kind of, you know,

he kind of grabbed onto me. I was his lackey. Yeah. And I'm driving him around. And I didn't know he was strung out. I didn't know about dope and heroin and shit. And I remember one time we did a gig in like Mystic, Connecticut or somewhere. And he's like, let's stop at Tingles down at you because you're living on the Lower East Side, right?

Oh, in New York. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know if you remember this, but it was sort of weirdly embarrassing because I didn't realize what was happening. He went and scored dope. Yeah. And then he did some.

Yeah. And then he's like, he's pouring sweat. Yeah. He's out of his fucking mind. His girlfriend, Karen, she's nodding out. He's like, let's go visit Tingle. And we go knock on your door and you're on your way out to do a gig at some restaurant or something.

You're all dressed up. But you're like, and Frankie's like, I got to take a shower. Yeah. And you let him shower. And then you left. Yeah. And then we left. It was the weirdest thing.

How can you not trust Frankie Bastille when he wants to take a shower? He never stole from me. Yeah. But he was a hustler. Yeah. But I didn't realize how- He was a road warrior. Yeah, for sure.

But I didn't realize that- He was a road warrior. Yeah, for sure. But I didn't realize that's what we were there for. I was driving him to pick up dope, and he needed to take a shower because he was all sweaty and burning up. Yeah. But you were very kind. The Lower East Side, yeah. I was down on Clinton Street. This was like 88, 89, 90. Yeah.

Yeah, that's when I was driving around. This was my first couple years of stand-up when I was driving headliners to gigs. Right. And I didn't know nothing. I didn't know anything about the Lower East Side. It was chaos then. Yeah, it was. I eventually lived there.

I mean, in 89, I ended up on second between A and B. Right. So when you got to- Hicks was down there at that time. He didn't- Was he in the Lower East Side though? Yeah. He didn't last long there because I remember hanging out with him a couple times.

He didn't love long there because I remember hanging out with him a couple times. He didn't love New York. Yeah. It was hard to watch him in New York because New Yorkers, they don't give a fuck. If you're going to be all angry, you better have a pretty good reason. So they'd watch Hicks and be like, why is he yelling? You know, with Bill, it's got to be longer than 15 minutes. Yeah. You're not going to get the gist of it.

Yeah. But I remember when he was there, we spent New Year's Eve, it was probably New Year's Eve, 90 or 90, maybe, was that about right? Yeah. About 90? I think he was there 90. Right. Everybody worked a catch.

Right. I was mostly, I couldn't really get on a catch and I refused to kiss Lewis's ass I couldn't stand him so I was at the old improv the original improv okay like on 44th street right and it's slow decay right and that's where Hicks was I remember Hicks walked in it was New Year's Eve where I just didn't know what we were gonna do and like let's he's like come on let's go look at the ball and I'm like all right and it was me and Vitaly and Hicks and we got about a mile away from the fucking thing and just hit a wall of people. And he's like, fuck this.

Let's go back to the improv. That was New Year's Eve with Bill Hicks. Yeah. Yeah. But he was there. But it was, yeah, it was a pretty wild place. So you moved down there in 88? I moved down in 88.

Yeah. Moved down there in 88. We did that album with Barry and Randy. And you had a little juice? Yeah, a little traction with that. Yeah. It was good to do. Absolutely.

So when you got down to New York, you were already working at Catch or you had to wait around? No, no. I was working at Catch. It's an industry town, as you know, and things can happen. HBO special, half hour specials, when they were doing those. I did HBO half hour. Did we do the same? I don't think we did the same run.

I did mine 95. Yeah. I did it, I think it was 91. So when I don't think we did the same run I did mine 95 yeah I did it I think it was 91 so when you're there though like so you're there 88 and like you know I got there in 89

and that's when they're shooting you do the Caroline's Comedy Hour shooting there yep did that right and then I was down at the Seaport

right the Seaport was the first one then she shot him at the other place when she moved yeah but the first ones I did with

at the Seaport right right and that weird little kind of look like a nursery school set the colors the other place when she moved yeah but the first ones i did with the at the seaport right right and that weird little kind of looked like a nursery school set the colors the whole place was kind of odd but uh but yeah so then are you headlining on the road starting in the late 80s is that the deal you know what i'm doing i'm headlining on the road yeah headlining on the road and uh then the one-man started. Jackie Mason. Right. Saw Jackie Mason in 89 in New York

and saw a guy in his element, on stage, in a theater, in New York, 2,500 people. Yeah. Do you know what it's like to be in a theater and 2,500 people are laughing hysterically? Yeah.

I don't either, but. Anyway, Jackie Mason's there and he's just killing it, and he's doing what he loves to do. He's just being himself. Right. And I said, that's what I want to do. You want to do the one-man show.

So I just started working on that format. I just liked it. I left the theater that night just really inspired, and I just said, that's what I want to do. Work alone. Because the more political you're getting, like you were saying about the crowds in New York, right? Right.

You know, you're doing 15 minutes, and they're kind of trying to get away from the news. Right. Yeah. And it's also like, you know, in order to do political comedy effectively, you know, you have to, they have to understand your point of view outside of just political jokes. So it takes a minute to dig in. Yeah. So, okay. So you knew right away that the long form one man i liked it yeah so

when did you do your first one i'm trying to remember i just started working out in the village barry's place doing the boston comedy club you know three people sure one night ervin arthur came he was so kind ervin arthur came he was my agent at the time he brought michael green michael green's sister and henny youngman right and i'm doing i'm gonna remember that yeah here's that this is like 89, 90 something. Because that's when I'm working there. And I'm saying to Irvin, Irv, I want to do the one-man show. You got to help me.

He goes, all right, I'll come down and watch it. So there's no one in there except those four people. I'm doing like 90 minutes. At one point, I turn around and Henny is out. He's just sleeping. Well, he was like 100. Yeah. Yeah, he was out.

He was out. But so you were running it like at 6 or 7 o'clock before they do the evening shows? I was probably. I kind of remember. Or it was maybe a Monday night or a Sunday night or something. I kind of remember. It was an off night. See, that's where you'd workshop.

Yeah, go there. I was just into it. Isn't it hard to do for nobody, though? It is. Did it help you to do it for nobody? It did. It did help me. And it helped me just to do it. Isn't it hard to do for nobody though? It is. Did it help you to do it for nobody? It did. It did help me. And it helped me just to do it, just to... Mine was basically a long set. It was a long set of standup and it was... But that's what I was doing. But the other thing is if you're doing something that's social and political or trying to relevant, you just need

to, like you said, stretch out. said stretch out you need to stretch out you need to just get it out and it was all motivated and the other thing is newly sober you're trying to work clean how was that for you it was hard and what what about it it was hard nerves yeah just uh uncomfortable on stage you know when you first start like, oh man, look at all these people. I know. Looking at me. No buffer. No buffer. Yeah. You know, but, but then you just, you know, just do it. And the clubs were hard. I found, I found the clubs difficult, you know, newly sober to be up there and everybody's drinking and everybody's, you know, and you're on a kind of a different thing. And so anyway, that's one of the reasons I just gravitated towards theater, more and more social and political.

89 was an amazing year historically. The wall's coming down, and all this stuff is happening with the end of the Cold War, and people are just, there was just this inspirational feeling that was in the air that I felt, and I just was into it.

Yeah, and when did carson happen 88 and after that i just wanted to just that's all i wanted to do did it help you the carson at that time it did yeah yeah it helped a lot got an agent from it got to work on the road yeah you know uh it led to hbo the half hour special things like that that. You're just out there. Sure, sure. And it was the only show. I mean, I think Letterman was just on. When was Letterman on? No, he's on. Yeah, he had been on, yeah. A couple years, yeah.

Yeah. He came on, I think, 84 or something. Yeah. But anyway, it was, yeah, it was good. But it was still just very passionate towards the one man show. Yeah, and so in 89, that was sort of what you did. You kept building one man shows. Just kept doing it.

Did it down in New York. Did you do like a run somewhere? Did you get to do an off-Broadway run? Yeah, I did the American Place Theater. Jack Rollins actually helped me out. Oh, he did? Yeah. Jack Rollins and his eyebrows.

I remember I've met him before. He had these colossal eyebrows. What a manager. Yeah, I met Jack Rollins and it didn't go well, but he was old already, but he was definitely a powerful guy. And he came and saw it? Oh, he came and saw it and wanted to help and yeah, help me, invested in it. He did? Yeah, he did. He liked it. He liked the point of view. He liked what I was trying to do. And he was just, he loved the comics. Whoever he managed, i was trying to do right and he was just you know he he loved uh he loved the comics whoever he managed he was just in their corner 100 he would come to with me to radio

shows and he was you know he was in his late 70s you know at the time so he was managing you yeah for a little while yeah about a year or so and but just was completely invested in the show and we did it off broadway atway at the American Place Theater. And, you know, you do it for a couple of months. And if it doesn't really take off, we got great reviews in the New York Times. But it never went to the next level, a long Broadway run or anything like that. But it was great to come back up to Boston and work there and started producing myself. I mean, just doing your own thing.

Like you've done with the podcast. You make your own breaks, take the initiative. I started renting out theaters. Well, when did you do the, like, I remember there's a big deal. I guess that was much later. Yeah, okay. Because I remember, I mean, you got 60 minutes later. Yeah.

But you start doing the theater. Was that the Boston Bake Theater? No. When did you have that residency there you you know what i did you know what i did i went up to boston after i got out of new york you rented yeah yeah i moved back after the run at the american playhouse yeah after the american place theater were you bitter were you sad no no no no i just felt like well my father had passed away my mother was in disarray you, there was family reasons to move back. My girlfriend lived there at the time, was now my wife.

There was a lot of reasons. But the other thing is I didn't want to go back into the clubs, and I wanted to get on stage. And I felt I could do well up in Boston if I could get a theater. And I rented the Hasty Pudding Theater. Yeah. And I rented it and produced myself. I learned how to produce myself. Yeah, and how'd that go?

It went great. I made more money and had more, you know, it was just... It brought more people, more money. You're on a different level. These are theater people coming in to see the show. And it was great. And I learned how to produce, so then you're not subject to waiting for the phone to ring.

Now, it's so funny, the kind of like... I guess that's why I never really found myself in a situation where I was driving to a road gig or anything because you knew enough about yourself once you got sober to know that you just didn't want to deal with the club. It just wasn't my thing anymore. Yeah. You know, it was great and I loved doing it

and I still go in, I work out all the time. I go in and do 10 minutes, 15 minutes, trying to old stuff, new stuff, and I love it. Right. Because that's where you can get your pacing down for jokes, for TV sets or whatever. So I'm all, I'm a big supporter of the clubs, but just for me, what I was going in,

I was doing the Hasty Pudding Theater and you can be, you don't have to be hilarious every 15 seconds. Right. You can have peaks and valleys in terms of commentary. So commentary is not a negative in the theater. That's right. You got a little more space.

You got space. Yeah, yeah. You know, and it's just, you can branch out, take on different subjects. Not a laugh per minute trip. Yeah. Take on different subjects. You know how it is. Sure.

When I saw your show at the Super, it was great, man. Just valleys, man. Nothing but valleys. But the thing about a theater theater the valleys are very compelling oh sure and theaters are like they're hanging on everything yeah

it's actually a problem when you do theater sometimes it's like because where I tape my special is actually a legit kind of black box theater and I think the expectations of that space are heavy

yeah right so like the comedy thing they're like I don't know it's just can we laugh yeah yeah laugh.

Of course you can laugh. But yeah, but the older theaters. So how long did you run, did you do a residency at Hasty Pudding? I did like six months. And what do you mean like you learned how to produce? What does that entail for that kind of shit? It means finding the space. Sure. Putting up the money.

Yeah. Renting it out. Yeah. Hiring the publicist. Yeah. Hiring the sound, if the theater doesn't have it, hiring the tech people. And then you do this at different cities?

I did it there. From there, I went out to LA a couple of years later, did it at the Coast Playhouse in Los Angeles. How'd that go? That went well artistically, but it's very hard to draw people. And I was thinking, oh, this will be a little, I want to repeat this model in Los Angeles. Right. And the only issue is it's a much bigger city.

People don't walk around. It's not Harvard Square. Yeah, yeah. But artistically, the reviews were really great. Isn't it horrible, though, L.A., when you come doing something with expectations? Oh, man. Like, I've done that. I moved.

I brought my wife. My son was one year old. You moved here? Yeah. I was here from, what year was it? 98? Why'd you move? To do the show.

I wanted to put the show up. You're going to dig in for a year? Yeah, man. I dug in, and I rented the theater. I stayed five months, the Coast Playhouse. And you know what it was? It was an El Nino hit. It was like 98, El Nino

and the weather people are coming on and going, whatever you do, don't leave the house. Yeah, yeah. It's raining. Get in the basement. The house is coming down.

And the Coast Playhouse has a tin roof so when it rains, you can hear it. So you're on stage and the audience is, initially they were big but I kept feeling

like it would build but it never really built to a critical mass. So we'd have like 13 people, and you can hear the raindrops. And I'm in a valley, and I'm making a serious point. And you hear the raindrops. But we stayed there five months. But I got to tell you, Mark, you took a beating. Took a beating financially, but artistically very successful.

Took a beating financially, but I was going back to Boston to get a gig, to do a show. Right. I saw a newspaper article on the plane, USA Today. It said 60 Minutes 2. 60 Minutes is going to do a 60 Minutes 2. Right. And they have all their people. They have all the correspondents.

The only person they don't have is the Andy Rooney guy. Right. And so I have been pitching myself to do commentaries in Boston and in L.A. to these various television stations. Let me do the Andy Rooney spot type thing. Like on what shows? Just, you know, the news shows. Not the daily shows you try to do?

No, no, no. This was more like the network television coming out of the news. Right, right. That's where I thought the topical humor would be appreciated. Yeah. Anyway, no one was interested, but I saw this article. Yeah. I called Brostein Gray, Ray Real, and I said, Ray, please send him the tape, man.

Oh, he was your manager at the time? Yeah, yeah, and he sent them the tape. And next thing I know, well, three months later, ended up with an interview for the job to do the Andy Rooney spot on 60 Minutes 2, and that was awesome. That lasted a couple years. You were there every week? I was there doing the, you know, for the nine months of the year. Yeah, for two years. That's great.

You get your insurance. Yeah, it was great. Go to the dentist. You get paid. You're staying in. Yeah, it was great. Go to the dentist. You get paid. You're staying in these great hotels in New York. Right. The Essex House overlooking the park. It was great.

It was great. What a sweet thing to happen. Yeah. It sounds like it was also one of those moments where, because of the nature of what we do. I was going to quit, man. Yeah. I was so despondent. I mean, I lost a lot of money.

You were, right? I made all the money that I used at the Hasty Pudding Theater, and I said gonna quit, man. Yeah. I was so despondent. I mean, I lost a lot of money. You were, right? I made all the money that I used at the Hasty Pudding Theater and I said, we're going to LA. We're gonna do it. We're gonna do it. We're gonna go to another level, you know, and I didn't lose all of it. But you know, it's just, you're not making any money and it's hard.

Was the expectation to sort of get into TV, do you think? Or did you just think you were gonna be able to run a special, run, be open for business, you know, be did you just think you were going to be able to run? Get a special run. Yeah. Open for business. Sure. You know, be open for business. Sure. Just be out there to be working. And then you just get lost out here.

Yeah. Well, you know, I mean, it went fine, but it just didn't make any money. Right. You know, and that's not, that's the norm. Right. That's, you know. I know. It's highly unusual to make any money in theater.

How do you make a million dollars in theater? Start with two million. It's highly unusual to make any money in show business at do you make a million dollars in theater? Start with two million. It's highly unusual to make any money in show business at a certain level, man. You know what I mean? It's like when we're coming up, you know, it's just so fleeting. You know, even if you get a deal, you're like, great. And you know enough after a certain point, like, I'm not spending this money. Yeah.

Like, I see, like, I'm fortunate to have been in this game since I was like 20 but you know you see these guys they get these deals remember back in the day they give like even Lenny like you get these on air commitments and he's buying houses Cadillacs or whatever my buddy Tom he bought a Cadillac for everybody I'm like did he really? Tom Rhodes yeah he's like I'm buying

you know when they got the network deals they went out and spent all the money I'm like how do you spend that money you know wow when they got the network deals yeah yeah they went out and spent all the money i'm like who the how do you spend that money i you know i i still this day i'm weird about spending money yeah because it just because a comic brain i don't know how long this is i'm gonna have this right right on the same way so but the run with the 60 minutes now how did that affect the the the the one man shows i mean were mean, were you able to parlay that? Yeah, just keep working. But did people know you from that, from 60 Minutes?

They did, in the Boston area primarily, yeah. It just allowed me to keep working. Great credibility. You know, great credit. It was good income. Learned about the business. And it was also at a time where the news and the media wasn't as fractured as it is now.

And it wasn't advocacy journalism. I mean, they had standards. You had to. It wasn't just like an automatic, oh, Jimmy's going to do a commentary. Go ahead. It wasn't like, we're going to put this through the strainer. We're going to make sure this is right.

The lighting, the sound, the commentary is what it has to be for network television following 60 Minutes episodes on Wednesday nights. So it was a much more controlled environment, much more stronger journalistic standards. You were within the CBS News Corporation. So you were within that world. Right. It wasn't like the weekend update. Yeah. No The CBS News Corporation. Yes. So you were in that world. Right. It wasn't like the weekend update. Yeah, yeah.

No, right, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was great. It's just harder. But you weren't doing that. You were doing sort of socially relevant topics. You weren't just... Andy Rooney would talk about marbles for 10 minutes.

Right. Well, he would find these interesting twists or interesting insights on the simplest things. And I was definitely more politically driven in terms of larger issues. And I'm talking about everything from the death penalty to guns and the issues of the day. And that really wasn't what the spot was for but it lasted two years and yeah they let you do it yeah they let me do it and it went well and uh and after that is that when you took the residency in uh uh Somerville yeah I went back to Massachusetts um basically I wasn't still living there but anyway yeah I wanted a place

you're going you're commuting to New York every other yeah yeah, I wanted a place to work. You were commuting to New York every other week? Yeah. Oh, yeah. I wanted a place to work, to be on stage, to do my own thing. Yeah. And that theater was available, and I started renting that theater. What was it called, the Boston Bake? It was called the Boston Bake Theater.

I used to live in Somerville. Yeah. Davis Square, yeah. Yeah, and Boston Bake Theater was below the, it was right next to the Burren, the great Irish pub in Davis Square, right across the street from Red Bones, great barbecue place. And the landlords were super, the Gorin family.

And they said, it's for rent. And they wanted me in there because I had somewhat of a reputation at this point. And we rented it and stayed five years, renamed it Jimmy Tingles Off-Broadway Theater. Yeah, I remember. Well, yeah, you let me do my one-man show there. I ran one of the one-man shows there. I can't remember which one, but I definitely worked out there

for a long form a few nights, I think. You did. We brought you in. We did the unconventional comedy convention in 2004 when the Democratic Party had their convention in Boston in 2004. As a matter of fact, that's when Barack Obama first made a national splash. I remember, yeah.

When he opened for Kerry. Great opening spot. Yeah. Nailed it. Yeah, he did. He blew the headliner out of the water. Yeah, he did. It's not red state or blue state.

It is the United States of America. Yeah. But anyway, we did the unconventional comedy convention there, and it was all political humor. You were there, Janine. We had Cremins. Yeah. We had Durst.

We had Mort Saul. We had Louis Black. We had, you know, over the course of a month. Yeah. We booked all these different acts there. I wonder how Durst is doing. I think he had some health issues. Yeah, I hope he's all right.

Yeah. I heard he had a stroke recently. Yeah. I think he's okay. Okay. From what I saw on Facebook, anyway. Oh, good. Yeah. So, yeah. he's okay. Okay. From what I saw on Facebook anyway. Oh, good. Yeah.

So, yeah, so you were- So we did that. I did that for five years. Five years. Yeah. And you were producing everything and you rented it. Producing it. Were you making a living over there?

Does it work now? Yeah, I was working, but I was making a living in other ways as well because I could do other shows, my own shows, but I could make- But you book it out, right? Yeah. I mean, did you have just a straight up comedy night or two or no we we had theaters we had music theater it was a lot of different things it wasn't just a it wasn't a comedy club right and which is you know for the broader picture is good

but for marketing and for making money is probably not the best way to do it variety house yeah it was more of a variety i mean we'd have your one your one-person show. We'd have a band. Yeah. We'd have a night of poetry slam. We'd have... It was more of an alt place. Yeah. You know, but it was great.

We did the Ding Hall reunion there a couple of times. Oh, yeah. That was funny. We had Cremins down there and, you know, the whole crew. Yeah, Steve Wright. Yeah. We did a lot of stuff. By the way, one of the guys I forgot to mention about the dingo was Gavin.

Oh, yeah, of course. The great Don Gavin. I think I'm going to interview him in a couple months. Oh, good. I love Gavin. Yeah, yeah. He was really something, man. Yeah, he was.

But we had all those folks there. But it was good. But again, you learn the business. You can make your own breaks and you do what you want to do. Well, how did that come to a close? It came to a close because the lease was up after five years. And the choice was, do you want to go for another five years? I had it like you could extend every year. So I didn't have to sign in for five years, but after five years, I had to re-up

for another five years and I didn't want to do it. I was tired. Now, where did you find time? Because I know that at some point you went to Harvard. I got out of there, yeah. When I left the theater, I was looking for things to do, and I was just saying, you know, I want to do something that has more, I don't know, maybe more of an impact. That was the big shift, right? Yeah, yeah. Where you started thinking about actually being involved in politics.

Yeah, I wanted to learn more. I felt like maybe I'd like to run for office or do something or try to use entertainment for purposes beyond just entertainment, right? To do something that has some sort of a meaning. Because you know how it is. We do our shows and you could talk about the greatest ideas in the world and then the show's over. And everybody goes their separate ways or whatever. Right. And how are you actually invested? It's because there's a way that we think sometimes. It's like, hey, I'm talking about stuff, right? I make an impact by saying things. But the people that really make an impact, they roll their sleeves up and they're in it.

Right. They're doing the work. Right. And we're just sort of like, hey, I hate that guy and this sucks. And yeah, I hope I changed some minds out there. Thank you. Yeah. But not that everybody who's doing that is that superficial about it.

Right, right. But the art form's not designed for calls to action necessarily. Right. But the Kennedy School, I just kept meeting people. They said, what are you doing now, Jimmy? I said, I don't know. They said, you should check out the Kennedy School. And what is it exactly?

It's the School of Government, Harvard Kennedy School of Government. But anyone can get in there? It's a master's degree. No, it's a master's. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be condescending. Yeah. They let you in.

Anybody can go in. We just call up. You know what, Mark? It's funny. When that place first came on the map in 78, I can remember walking by and very much in a very despondent very active mode yeah in 78 because I still lived in Cambridge at the time it's right by the water right it's like two blocks up yeah I got a I got like one of the um yeah admission

booklets right man I'd love to go here someday but anyway so after 2007 when the theater closed I just said, you should apply. A friend of mine who was on the Cambridge City Council, Marjorie Decker, said, Jimmy, you should apply to the Kennedy School. A couple of other people did. Howard Zinn wrote me a letter. Tommy O'Neill wrote a letter. You knew Zinn? Yeah, I knew Zinn.

How did you know Zinn? I know Zinn from I did a lot of shows down in Wellfleet. And his son, Jeff Zinn, ran a great theater down there called the What? Wellfleet Harbor Actors Theater, and it was right in the water. When I left Eskerly, when I left the American Place Theater in 93, I went looking for gigs, looking for theaters, and that was one of the places I went.

Howard came to the show, loved the show. He was great. We became friends, friends of the family. Did he inform any of your thinking? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah? Yeah, yeah.

Because to have a personal relationship with a guy of that stature, a sort of a singular political thinker, and definitely progressive, but also someone who wrote the kind of Bible of reinterpreting history. Right. From the victim's point of view. Right.

It must have been something to have kind of a private relationship with him. Oh, yeah. Well, he came to the shows, loved it. He was a big supporter of the theater. Did he suggest things? How did he help your thinking?

Because it seems like he's a guy that would be like, you know, put things into a different perspective. You know, he just liked what I was doing. He liked what I was doing. He was also a friend of Barry Crimmins. He just supported the comedy. He supported the arts. He loved the fact that it was political. It was about something.

The shows were about something. You're trying to make points. You're making people laugh, pointing out hypocrisy, pointing out inequality, taking on bigger subjects that were difficult to talk about and that you can do in a theater.

Yeah, he taught at BU. And he was fearless. He was fearless. Well, The People's History of the United States is a pretty fearless book. I remember he taught at BU. I didn't take his class, but it was hard to get into them because it was like quite an event. Yeah.

You know, it was a show to be in his lectures and stuff. People loved it. And he was out front against the, he was out front on behalf of the civil rights movement in the 50s. He taught at Spelman College in the South. Right. civil rights movement in the 50s. He taught at Spelman College in the South, women's African American college, and was on the forefront of that early civil rights movement in the late 50s. And he was just very committed. And he was fearless about the war in Vietnam. He was fearless about Iraq. And even after 9-11, he was opposed to Afghanistan. He was opposed to

Iraq. And so he took a lot of heat, but he never backed down. He was just very, very committed to his point of view. Did Chomsky ever come see your shows? Oh, yeah. I actually did a show with Howard and Chomsky. Oh, wow. Yeah, we did one for a fundraiser for the theater up there in Wellfleet. And it was pretty cool because-

Is Chomsky a witty guy? You know, he is. He is a witty guy you know he is yeah he is a witty guy he is and it was funny because uh we did i was the emc what do we i was emceeing and we had uh howard on and then gnome and we did in a church in well fleet mass the uh the congo church it was about 800 people it's packed this is like this is before 9-11 where's well fleet well fleet is in the lower cape okay the outer cape it's about 10 miles uh north of p-town okay yeah uh very cool area and um so you're doing the show i'm doing the show and i'm emceeing and it's about but they

were all about they were all about pointing out the inequalities and what's wrong, right? And they were also about galvanizing people, but not in an, like there was never any movement. You know what I mean? Like an organized movement. It was never a political party, you know? And I always felt like that's what we need to do. We need to be united for social change. It's got to be some sort of a movement, not just disparate voices.

Right. But I remember we had just passed this thing up in Massachusetts called the Clean Elections. It was public financing in Massachusetts. And it passed the ballot. We got 60% of the vote. And the legislature wouldn't fund it in massachusetts at the time so i was so inspired by noam and howard talking about you got to take action i said listen we need to do a march we need to march from lexington and concord to the boston common and we got to

march on behalf of clean elections and get the legislature to fund it let's do this yeah and so everybody's and so that was like a big just it just motivated me to get involved did you do the march yeah we did it we did it and 9-11 happened like a month later this was in august of 2001 9-11 happened you know a month later and we did it like two weeks after the 9-11 we did the march carried the flag the whole way it was awesome a couple hundred people 15 mile march uh it was great but it was those type of people that motivated me so it wasn't just comedy it was like what are people you know people who are thinking outside the box right pushing the envelope politically pushing

the envelope and progressive politics and exactly and so so you applied to kennedy center i applied to the kennedy school and got in. Couldn't believe I got in. I was the only comedian ever to get in. Yeah. And that was a ball. You know what was great about it? Three years? It's one year.

One year. It's a mid-career program. And when you get out, you get a master's of public administration. But the great thing about it was it was so uplifting to be around people who are committed. The great thing about it was it was so uplifting to be around people who are committed. Yeah. From all walks of life, you had people, you had like the people who were serving in Afghanistan and Iraq and young guys, you know, men and women over there, special forces. You had corporate people.

You had people from the nonprofit world. You had people who were, you know, municipal office holders around the country. You had 100 people from overseas. You had people from Africa and Asia and China, Israelis and Palestinians in the same class who don't mix in Israel, but they're mixing there. What do you learn there? You learn about people's humanity. That's what I learned about the positiveness and the optimism that people have. And no matter how fucked up it seems on the surface, there is a huge contingent of people moving this country and this world forward on a daily basis all over the world. And these people there are just completely committed to that, to progress, human progress, trying to improve whatever

society they come from. And it was just dynamite. We actually did comedy there. I did a thing with Israelis and Palestinians. We did a show. We got some Jewish American comedians and Palestinian Americans and did a show. Marshall Gantz was actually the moderator of it. But anyway, it was just a very positive experience. People trying to improve the society. Well, what kind of classes? Like, what are the nuts and bolts of it? I had a class with David Gergen. Oh, yeah?

Yeah. We had a class on organizing, political organizing. You have classes on negotiation. And the classes on, some of the classes are more general. Some of them, you have to take certain, you know, mathematical classes, statistics. I had to take certain, you know, mathematical classes, statistics. I had to take that.

That was tough. Yeah. Right. That was really hard. But I love being there. And again, it's just the hope, the optimism, the feeling of that things can change. It's deciding it's up to the people who are here to do the work. And then you get out and then so the plan is-

I actually did the commencement address at Harvard that year. At the Kennedy School? I took a class called Arts and Communication. Yeah. And people say, Jimmy, you're a comedian. You've been in the arts for 20 years or whatever. Why are you taking this class? I said, because I never studied it.

I had no idea. I never took acting. I never took- What did you learn taking this class? I said, because I never studied it. I had no idea. I never took acting. I never took, you know. What did you learn in that class? They had us watching commencement addresses, how people just give a commencement address, the story, the narrative. And kind of I had been doing that

with the one-man shows and comedy. But they showed us one with Steve Jobs from Stanford, his commencement address. Great, great commencement address. And I asked the professor after, I said, do they do a commencement address here at Harvard? She goes, oh, yeah. Every year. She goes, you should apply.

They would love to have a funny one. Yeah. So I actually applied. You write an essay. For the Kennedy School? No, for the whole school. For the whole Harvard? Yeah, the graduate school commencement address at Harvard graduation, 2010.

And it was like an audition. They had like 40 people from the law school, medical school, education school, business school, Kennedy school. They write essays and they apply. So this is the student address and then they have a celebrity? Yeah, then they have like, yeah, they had Judge Souter from the Supreme Court was the main person. Yeah, but they have a graduate student and they have an undergraduate student. So anyway, I made, you know, they have 30, 40 people, then they get it down to 20, then they get it down to 10, then they get down to five people. It's like the San Francisco Comedy Festival.

It was like that, man. And I'm telling you, the whole comedy career really helped when it came down to this because I was practicing the address I did this at the BCN riot I know how I can get through this that's exactly what I did Mark I was taking the commencement address and I was doing open mics with it no I was going into past scenes yes I was going into past scenes I was going into the comedy studio in Harvard Square I was at the can tab lounge in Central Square oh Square. I was at the Cantab Lounge in Central Square. No shit. And I was practicing. You're running the bits? I'm running the speech. And I'm going, listen everybody, this is one night, it's funny, it's like one

o'clock in the morning in the Cantab Lounge. Half the audience has passed out. It's an open mic blues night, right? So it's one in the morning. It's a Tuesday night. And I'm like, alright, listen, Thursday morning I'm giving the commencement address at Harvard. I just want to practice it on you guys. What do you say? People, all right, listen, Thursday morning, I'm giving the commencement address at Harvard. I just want to practice it on you guys.

What do you say? People, you know, Harvard sucks. You get all these hecklers. But the people dug it. And it's just like doing a set for The Tonight Show or anything else. Was it 15 minutes? No, it was like, I think, eight minutes. Oh, yeah.

Eight or nine minutes or something. But because it was humorous, people paid attention. And you could lean on some. Was it exciting? Oh, it was great. Did you meet Souter? I did not meet. Briefly, briefly.

But you know who was there? It was Meryl Streep was there. Oh. Yeah, it's on YouTube. Okay. As a matter of fact. Jimmy Tingle's Harvard commencement? Jimmy Tingle's Harvard commencement address, yeah.

She was laughing? Oh, she was digging it, yeah. Yeah. She was digging it yeah she was digging it and so how so when you get out of there and you get your degree do you now do you sideline comedy all together to get into politics and i took a year off to go i just did a couple of events that i was already booked for but i just focused on the school and you know i didn't even tell anybody i was going i just went because i didn't want to be the first person

to flunk out of the Harvard Kennedy School. Right, right. So I get out and I just, I realized a couple of things. The cultural influence of entertainment, how important it is. We're at the Kennedy School with all these people. They're doing really important work. Yeah.

Most of them are never on television. Right. They're never on the radio. Yeah. They're not in the cultural conversation the way that matches the importance of what they're doing. So I felt if I can stick with comedy and do what I'm doing, that's a great way to try to, you know, just reach more people. Right. Really.

And so I just went back into it. And one person shows and started a little bit of an organization. It's a social enterprise called Humor for Humanity. And that's still in the early stages, right? It's a startup, but it's a way to use entertainment for purposes beyond entertainment. Want to hear our mission statement? Yeah. Humor for Humanity, more than entertainment, raising spirits, funds, and awareness for nonprofits, charities, and social causes. Our mission is your mission. Humor for humanity. Humor in helping.

Humor in healing. Humor in hope. Ha, ha, ha. So it's basically a kind of a, you set up shows for different. Different nonprofits. Oh, nonprofits. Nonprofits. That seems like a good idea.

Yeah, it's fun. Is it for comedy? Yeah. You got comedians? Yeah, I do some comedians. You got a roster? You know, I have some friends that I've done some with. I just did one at the Harvard Club, actually,

raised money for the Kennedy School New England Alumni Association, the board that I'm on. And, you know, they help with the social, the non-profits in the Boston area. But it's still in the early stages. I've been doing it primarily as a solo yeah just because it's simpler yeah you know um where i perform and you know mc or whatever whatever they need yeah and it's fun but it's a way to actually have an impact beyond just the entertainment part yeah that's the and that's the biggest thing and

that's why i ran for office you ran for what lieutenant i ran for lieutenant governor massachusetts and that's what this show at the wilbur why I ran for office. You ran for what? Lieutenant Governor? I ran for Lieutenant Governor in Massachusetts. And that's what this show at the Wilbur is about on December 28th. It's called 2020 Vision. And it's Jimmy Tingle's 2020 Vision is why would a comedian run for office? And basically, I'm explaining to people why I ran. Because people, when I first ran, they go, you know, you're a comedian. You don't know anything about politics.

They think you just parachuted in and just. But I said, I've been committed to a lot of these issues for many years. I have the television clips to prove it. More than the president. Yeah. I actually have a clip in the show from 60 Minutes where I'm doing a commentary on Donald Trump running for president in 1999. Yeah.

And he, when he first announced that he was going to run, the first time he floated the idea, 60 Minutes 2 did a segment on him. And I came out of that segment doing a two-minute commentary on him. No kidding. A minute 40. Yeah, and I show that actually in the show at the Wilbur. So I've been committed to these things.

The Tonight Show was a great experience. I was doing social and political humor at the time. Sure. And it was a great thing. I was doing social and political humor at the time. Sure. And it was a great thing. Never wanted me back. They didn't want it back at that time in 88. It was not like they didn't want it. So the show at the Wilbur is primarily just about your engagement in politics

and the experience of running for lieutenant governor. Running for office in a serious way. So what was it like? Did you have to put a whole campaign infrastructure together? Oh, yeah. I did, man. Did you know how to do all that stuff?

In a way, I did. I knew what it entailed, but I got in a little late, first of all. And when you get in late to something, the staff have taken up with other campaigns. So the campaign managers that would normally be available were taken up by other campaigns. So that was a challenge. So I went for about five or six months without a campaign manager trying to do it as well as I could do it. But my motivation was really coming back to that story, trying to get help in 1987. Like when the guy at the, when I picked, I called the detox and they said, after calling several places and getting the runaround, this guy said, you called

the right place. And I went in and it changed my life. And my whole motivation was we need a society where anybody picks up a phone and reaches out for help the answer on the other end always should be you call the right place yeah right and that's the type of society we need in Massachusetts and around the country with the opioid and the drug addiction problems and alcoholism that we have and so treating it as a medical issue that was my primary motivation for running that That's a big issue in Massachusetts. It covers both sides of the aisle, rich, poor, black, white, doesn't matter. And it's just a huge thing. And it's a big problem up there. But anyway, so that was like my basic motivation, but also all the

other issues, the public transportation, how important it is. When I did the Tonight Show, I was talking about guns. I was talking about homelessness. I was talking about guns. I was talking about homelessness. I was talking about AIDS. I was talking about all these issues that are still front and center. And so I said, you know what? I just can't be a spectator anymore. I want to get involved. And when I saw Trump win, I said, you know what?

If he can use his communication skills as an entertainer for his message, I can try to use my communication skills as an entertainer for our message. I can try to use my communication skills as an entertainer for our message. And people say, how did Trump win? And my estimation, short, simple sentences, short, simple messages, three words, build the wall, drain the swamp, lock her up. Belligerent anger. Belligerent, shameless anger also. Yes. Build the wall. Build the wall, drain the swamp, lock her up,

make America great. You know, those three words. You know what? We have our own three words. Can I tell you two? Yeah, let's go. Can I tell you, Mark?

Do it up. Feed the hungry. How's that, brother? Nice. How's the homeless? Yeah. Heal the sick. There you go.

Welcome the stranger. And I would add, Mark, for the people in Boston, fix the T, which is our train. If John F. Kennedy could inspire a generation to go to the moon, we can get a train to go to Springfield, Massachusetts. In New York, we can get the L train to run on Sundays. Yeah, exactly.

And I think if we put our heads together, we could get a train to connect North Station to South Station in the great city of Boston. But that was the type of motivation. Right. That's what I was into. So you feel that this show that you're doing at the Wilbur on December 28th is part of the goal to inspire people to get involved? Yes, to take action. Yes.

It's part of the goal. It's to tell the story why I did it. It was a serious campaign. I'm still going to be involved. I'm still doing whatever I can do. We got 213,000 votes. Good news is we got 213,313 votes and first time running came in second place. The bad news, two-person race. But we have 41% of the vote in the primary. That's amazing. Yeah. It was great, man.

You're going to run again? I might. I don't know. I don't know. If there was a unique, you know, if there was something I felt like I could, I was uniquely qualified to help with, I would consider it. Yeah. And so it was a great thing. But my whole message is get involved. If you don't like what's going on, turn off the television set, call your local Democratic party, get behind one of the candidates that are running for president, get behind people, help in the state legislature, do something. It's fun. It's cathartic. I helped with Hillary. The way I got involved, I was doing events for Hillary Clinton with Bonnie Frank in 2016 in October. And we're doing these gigs and we have fundraisers for her in September in October. Yeah. And we're doing these gigs and we're fundraisers for her, right? Yeah.

In September and October. And it was a blast. Barney would do five minutes or 10 minutes of get out the vote, right? Yeah. I'd do like 10 minutes of comedy. Yeah. And after the last one,

I said, Barney, you think it's too late to run for office in a serious way? He goes, no, not at all. He goes, after the election, let's have lunch. So in the next month, I do what I always do.

Every election, every four years, I get my sign, I make phone calls, I knock on doors, I go what I always do. Every election, every four years, I get my sign. I make phone calls. I knock on doors. I go up to New Hampshire and knock on doors and get involved and make phone calls and donate, do fundraisers, whatever. And you meet people who are like-minded. You get it out of your system. It's cathartic.

So when she lost, I didn't feel as horrible as I would have if I didn't do anything. You know? And there's a lot of funny stories. I'll tell you one funny story. I'm in Central Square, Cambridge. You know Central Square, right? I got my sign on election day, let's do this. It's election day, let's do this. And people, a lot of people ignore you. They're coming up out of the subway, they got their headphones on, they're not paying attention. After a couple of hours of this, I start getting upset. Listen, people, I did not risk my life at the Battle of the Bulge so people could not vote on election day. Get involved. They're walking past me, not even listening.

Two hours later, I get even more bizarre. It's the end of the day. It's election day. People are tired. I'm delirious. I said, listen, you people. Listen, you kids. I did not take a musket ball to

the knee at the Battle of Bunker Hill so young professionals in Cambridge, Massachusetts could squander their constitutional rights to vote. This kid comes up to me about 19 years old, dead serious, looks me in the eye and says, thank you for your service. Taking that musket ball. I know we're all getting older mark but 241 you look great thank you but that's my message get involved and we got to do it statewide and we got to do it in the swing states yeah we got to we got to get the ground troops man you know yeah i think you're right man i think you're right i'm scared and I'm also excited.

Yeah. Yeah. I guess you got, I think that's the other thing is like, you know, there was a sort of component to the other, to our side. We get discouraged and despairing and there's, you know, it's hard to,

hopelessness is pervasive, you know, because we really see, you know, so many of the things that we think are important diminishing, not the least of which is the planet. And it's hard to have faith or to feel like anything's going to help. And I think that's a personal problem, and I think we've got to transcend that. Yeah, absolutely. We're all very sensitive. And the other thing is, let's just say people listen and they want to help Mayor Pete,

or they want to help Elizabeth Warren, or they want to help Biden. Whoever you want to help, help them. But at the end of the day, we've got to come together. We need the Bernie people, the Elizabeth people, the Mayor Pete people, the Democrats got to come together and unite. Because if we don't, we're going to get a repeat of what happened last time. A repeat would be, I think, you know, sadly better than more. Yeah. Do you know? Yeah, I do. I do.

Great talking to you, Jim. Great talking to you, Mark. Thanks a million for having me, man. Yeah, man. That was Jimmy Tingle. Jimmy Tingle's 2020 vision at the Wilbur Theater in Boston is this Saturday, December 28th. Go to JimmyTingle.com for tickets and all things Jimmy Tingle related.

You can go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all of my tour dates. You can go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all of my tour dates. Please have a safe and happy holiday. Whatever you're doing. Holidays. I'll talk to you right after Christmas. So we'll talk before New Year's. So Merry Christmas.

I'm a goddamn Jew. Happy Hanukkah. goddamn Jew. Happy Hanukkah. Here now is some music. Some ethereal, distorting music. For Christmas,

Hanukkah, holidays, Jews, Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, Baha'i people. I don't know. I don't know. Here's some music. Thank you. Boomer lives! You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Packaged flights, hotels, and hammocks for less. Expedia. Made to travel.

You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.