WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1083 - Brittany Howard

Episode Date: December 26, 2019

Brittany Howard always needs to keep moving forward. That’s part of the reason she made the difficult decision to take a break from her band Alabama Shakes and go out on her own. Now, for the first time as a Grammy-nominated solo artist, Brittany is trying to force herself to be present and reckon with the fact that she tried so hard to get away from the past. Brittany and Marc also talk about the importance of the rhythm section, being in a prog rock band, trashing her first guitar, and embracing the inner child. This episode is sponsored by SimpliSafe and The Only Podcast left on Spotify.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lock the gate! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucksters? What is happening? Happy Thursday. I hope you got everything you wanted.

I hope you're all sated. Sated and celebrated. I gotta be honest with you, man. I'm carrying about three pounds I don't want. Is that wrong to say? Right out of the gate? What the fuck is wrong with you? Why can't you eat four pieces of Tres Leches cake and a piece

of olive oil cake or three and some cobbler with vanilla ice cream in six minutes why can't you do all that there I should I should have won something at that party there should have been an award given when someone said did we didn't even put the icing on that cake yet who ate all that uh me I thought it was done it was was not supposed to. It's just not. Oh, it's got. You're going to put icing on it. I'll try it with the icing then. Yeah, I was that guy.

I was the guy who showed up early when the caterers were still putting out food at the friends of mine houses, their house that a catered event. My buddy Al Magical and his wife Kristen do this every year and i always show up at if it's a party supposed to start at six i'm there about 602 i made an olive oil cake

what did you make did you make anything i made two olive oil cakes. Here's what happened, you guys. Before we really delve into my eating disorder on this holiday, why don't we talk frankly about who's on the show. shakes uh she released her first solo album in september called uh jamie which is great it's always the alabama shakes records great she's an amazing talent as us older host types say this woman is one of the great talents coming up she'll be here in a little while but getting back to the cakes see now what's happened is i remember from back in the day like i'm saying this to people who might have been there before you guys remember when the magicals used to cook their own food and now they got caterers doing it you remember back when the magicals did their own food cooking kristin's a great cook she made the yule log i'm giving you too much information i don't know if she wants this much attention or if al does al's a great actor and comic been a friend of mine for years we don't talk as much as we should, but when we do talk, we always enjoy it. Maybe we should just leave it at that. Why push

it once, twice a year? How much do you need from a person? So here's what happened to me. As some of you know, I was in Atlanta shooting some footage for a movie and I've got this ridiculous beard going and Lynn just told me that my my head looks good long my face looks good long that can't be true I have an enormous head I think she's being generous and I have this long beard so it makes my face look longer and I must look like some I must look like a strange some kind of like weird like is that guy half human half head that's what that is giant head so anyways i ate a bunch of cake i ate a bunch of cake in atlanta because it was left over on the set and i ate it compulsively and quickly and it got me it got me got my got my sugar jones going

again right so i'm flying back from atlanta and then i'm on the plane and i'm like oh fuck yeah man i forgot i downloaded this new york times recipe app the new york times cooking business so i'm on the plane and i'm like i haven't been using that enough let's take a look at what's going on maybe some holiday ideas ooh cakes when was the last time i made a cake point being i got home from atlanta and i just you know dug in i pulled out my old baking pans i started going at it i wanted to make a perfect olive oil cake because I like olive oil cake. It seems simple. But really, in my heart, what I wanted to do was when you have a compulsive eating thing, which anybody does around cake, you bake the cake because you want to see if you can

bake the cake, primarily to eat about a quarter of it and then figure out how not to throw away the rest and get rid of it. That's the game. I'm going to bake a cake. I'm going to eat like a few pieces of it quickly, judge the cake, and then figure out what do I do with the rest of this cake? Do I throw it away? Do I go give it to my neighbor? Do I have people over? Do I put it in my car in case I run into somebody that needs cake that happens dude you need a cake fuck yeah i do you're in luck i have one in my car so i made two olive oil cakes because the first one i fucked up i put one too many eggs in it was still delicious i ate a bunch of it so so you understand i'm saying so that's three pieces of the one that wasn't made properly but

was excellent then three pieces of the one that i didn't know what to do with so i'll bring it over to alice so i ate half a cake that's what happened and i got over to alice early showed i sliced the cake i took it out i didn't take it bring it as a cake i brought it as slices of cake and i and i did you know as people walked in and they were looking at things they're even if they just look towards where my cake was i'm'm like, that's an olive oil cake. You like that? I made that one. Mm-hmm. Yep.

And there's like all this beautiful food everywhere. Whole plates of like cold cuts and cold cuts. What do you call that now? Charcuterie? How about a platter of cold cuts? Nope. It was charcuterie, which is expensive cold cuts that aren't really cut for sandwiches. With cheese, breeze, humble, fog.

Is that the one with the blue line in it that won the prizes? I think so. Chunks of cheddar. The point is, I fucking ate everything. I ate cheese like I'd never eaten cheese before. Waited around for the tacos. People were eating it before. was it what am i talking about people i did it i did it i ate stuff before i'm eating the meat before the tortillas come out

with my hands like i fucking never ate before i had a good time though a lot of comics were there saw burr burr was there kasher leggero weinbach and his two brothers there were three weinbachs louis katz was there is it isn't i outing people brendan walsh hadn't seen him in a while that was fun tom papa yeah and then some people i didn't know there are other comics there too that i feel like i'm missing people always nice to to hang out with the crew meet some new people eat some food so much trace cake here's what I'm getting at. I'm about three pounds uncomfortable. Not that it fucking matters.

I'm sure there's plenty of people that can relate to this. How many of us put on a few pounds over the holidays? Raise them up. See, look at that. Almost everybody. All right. So I got a Christmas story for you. You know how you hear a lot of, you know, these stories about people, goodwill, you know, like people forgiving debts, people feeding the homeless, you know, nice people going to hospitals.

And, you know, bringing presents to people with cancer, whatever. I'm going to share my touching Christmasmas story it's not it's not too sad it's only sad no it's not well depends what your spectrum is for sensitivity on this but like if i told you i got a flat tire on christmas morning would would would that be sad to you or just sort of like that's a bummer. I would hope that would be more the response, not like, oh my God, that's terrible, Mark. I got a flat at Al Magical's house.

Like I got a flat two days ago and I went and it was a slow leak. I didn't know how bad it was going to leak. And I drove my car to Al's house for the party, knowing that it might run out of air by the end of the party, which it did. And then I had to change a tire, but there was a bunch of people there you know it's amazing how stubborn i there were two teenage boys there with their dad and some other guests who but i'm

changing the tire i'm fucking loosening i'm loosening the lug nut nuts on my own i know how to change a tire i'm not fucking incapacitated i'm not some old guy and all of a sudden i'm surrounded by like boys and men who are just hijacking the process and i'm like i got this and i was like why don't you let them do it i'm like what am i what am what am i 70 what am i incapable so i had to like just surrender that and and let them do it these were friends of alice and i asked him how much i should tip him, and he said, you don't tip. People are just helping you change a tire, and they're guests of mine.

They're my friends. They're not, we didn't call them. So anyway, I drove it home, and the next morning, I immediately got a patch, and then, like, all of a sudden, it's leaking like fuck again, and I don't know what to do, and on Christmas morning, it's flat.

So I'm like, fuck it. Finally, I get to change my own tire without interference. I just do the manly thing, prove to myself and to others that I can change a tire probably in about 10 minutes. So I'm going at it in my driveway. I got my dumb little jack that comes with the car. Got the tire. I loosened the lug nuts.

It took all my body weight almost. And I'm about to change the tire. Then the dude across the street, who I don't really know who I talk to, I've made assumptions about. He's definitely a car guy. He's got an old truck. He's got a Corvette. He drives a motorcycle. He lives in the house across from me.

I made assumptions about him. Like he's one of those hot rod dudes. Like, you know, kind of like a dude, dude, alpha, you know, dude, fucking car guy, guy. Which, you know, I got no beef with that. My buddy Dean's one of those guys. But I just never, I never thought that we'd, whatever. I never thought we'd cross paths or that we'd become friends. I met him, but it always seemed like, I'll tell you what it seemed like.

Me projecting a personality onto a person and then reacting to that personality as if he's that person that guy so i'm in the middle of doing my own manly thing with my tire and he comes walking over he's like what's up and i'm like i uh got a flat i'm gonna put the spare on he's like do you want me to bring my jack the good kind you know the car guy jack the kind that's like you know i don't remember what you call them but you know the kind they have a tire places i'm like i got he's like no you don't those are that jack says those are terrible but leave it up i'll go get my jack and we'll just knock it out and i'm like all right okay car guy so he goes and gets his jack and then all of a sudden i'm i'm not doing it i'm not i got

you know i was going at it with my jack with the little jack rising to the occasion overcoming obstacles but now at troy the car guy has got my car up he's got his lug nut thing he's fucking taking it off he says he's got he's got a patch thing kid at his house he's got a compressor you know we're and he was watching a movie he comes out the point of this story is not to be judgmental or feel that i was um emasculated it was that he saw me changing my tire from his kitchen window he's in the middle of watching a movie on christmas morning comes over to help me change my tire it was very nice thing to do and we found out there was a second nail in the tire. And that's the deeper message here, I think, is that sometimes you get a flat and you get it fixed only to find that your tire had two nails in it. What's that about?

I don't know, but it sounds like one of those analogies to me. Sometimes you think you got one nail in you and you got two, so you're still leaking. That's what that means. Put that in a Buddha book. Hey, why am I still leaking? Not your day, man. Got a second nail in you. Two fucking nails in the same fucking tire in the same period of time. Different nails anyway that was the christmas story that my neighbor came and helped me change my tire on christmas morning and i appreciate that i'm very excited to talk to uh my guest britney i was very excited to talk to her britney howard's amazing singer and songwriter and guitar player too and i just was always sort of like what is up

with that person and i got an an opportunity to find out a little. So this is me talking to Brittany, who is lead singer and guitarist of Alabama Shakes. Also her first solo album, Jamie, was released in September. It's very good. They're all good. She's nominated for two Grammys,

Best Rock Song and Best Rock Performance for History Repeats, the name of the tune. And this is me and her talking when she came over that time. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice?

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Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need.

And policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. You play SG's? I play SG's. I don't really care what guitar I play SGs. I don't really care what guitar I play as long as it's not brand new. Because in brand new pickups, they bother me. But the SG definitely has a tone.

Well, mine is actually kind of broken. Really? Yeah, so the pickups are kind of corroded. So it has a different sound. Oh, really? Which is why I kept playing it. It's corroded on the inside? I think so, yeah.

Yeah. And I told everybody, don't fix it. Yeah. Because if you fix it, then I can't play it. I've got a one of a kind right now. Yeah. Don't fuck it up. Exactly.

But it is kind of weird, because I've owned a couple guitars. I'm not a professional guitar player, but that's one of the ones I don't have is that sg and then those things they get they got a real edge to them they got a real bite to them and you play the shit out of it yeah thank you yeah i guess i do what is creative for yeah um it it can it can get hot when i need to get hot yeah i can mellow out too right it can right yeah yeah and it's not too heavy no that's the thing i can't play a les paul too heavy that thing kills my shoulder it does right yeah this yeah i don't know i can't i can't fly away with that thing yeah you know who else said that you know uh for the exact the reason he plays sgs is angus young from acdc yeah it's hard to move around with a les paul you gotta work out they're they. Yeah. So when did you start playing guitar?

I first started playing guitar when I was 11 years old. That's about when I started. Yeah. Yeah. And did you want to? Did your mom make you? No, I really wanted to. Yeah.

I saw a band play for the first time when I was 11. And that same instant, I was was like this is what I want to do for the rest of my life that's it just watch it it was just a band like from our school playing at this in the old school gym yeah on stage yeah they probably weren't even that good but I remember it being like them being gods really were they like a high school band yeah it was just kids like four years older than me. You don't remember what they were playing or anything? You just remember it was cool? I just remember their band name was Stoned Phillips. Stoned Phillips!

Yeah. If there's anyone from Stoned Phillips listening, reach out! Yes. And where'd you grow up? I grew up in North Alabama, a town called Athens, Alabama. I have no sense of that. It's just right up top. But what was the scene there? I mean, I've town called Athens, Alabama. North Alabama? I have no sense of that. It's just right up top. But what was the scene there?

I mean, I've heard of Athens, Georgia. I never heard of Athens, Alabama. How'd you end up there? Were your folks from there? Yeah, I mean, on both sides of my family, we've been there for generations. Oh, really? Yeah, just the same area for like 200 years.

Wow. That's pretty crazy. Do you know about it? Do you know the the history of your family uh not much just a little bit you know not not not too too too much i always ask my dad to like dad tell me about you know where we're from and what it's what's about yeah and he just you know he told me one story that um great-great-grandfather actually owned a lot of land, which was very unusual for a black man back then. Oh, yeah. Where we're from. So I thought that was pretty cool.

I mean, I owned a lot of acres. Like, I mean, 100 plus acres. Really? Yeah. In Alabama? Mm-hmm. Alabama. And that's the coolest kind of fact I have, really.

We don't really focus so much on the past. No? Yeah. It's not of interest necessarily? No, it's just where you're going yeah yeah where you're going is better yeah yeah then where where everything came from yeah yeah you sort of cover that on the new record a little bit don't you kind of spinning out like getting out of the past and repeating yourself and acknowledging where you are and how you're going to move forward. Yeah. You know, it's not a new train of thought by any man.

No, but, but it's one of those ones when you're up against it, you know, getting lost in nostalgia or what could have been, it, it, it is something the brain will do if you let it. Right. Yeah. I mean, that's our base nature is to stay where it's comfortable. You know, we're just human beings and we're still related to the cavemen and that's still part of our brain. Yeah. We want to stay where it's comfortable. But for me, it's so much more exciting to just keep moving forward and keep moving ahead.

Have you always been like that? Yeah. Yeah. I actually have to practice to like being still, being present. Yeah. Because I'm always flying. Like I just want to go do the being still, being present. Yeah. Because I'm always flying. Like I just want to go do the next thing and see how that feels. And I'm just a person that really craves like experiences.

Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. No fear? No, I have fear, but also it's like I'm going to die too, like eventually. So just let's do something. Yeah. Let's do something while we're here.

Right. Yeah. Something good, hopefully. Yeah, something. Yeah. Let's do something while we're here. Right. Yeah, something good, hopefully. Yeah, hopefully. Yes. So what kind of, what was your family, what was, how many are there of you? There's me. Yeah.

And then my mom and my dad. Yeah. And that's it. Yeah. When I was younger, I had a sister who passed away from a really rare form of cancer. Yeah. And that was about 21 years ago now. That's the one that her name was Jamie.

Jamie, and you named the record for her? I did, yeah. Yeah. Do you remember her? Oh, yeah. I mean, it's the craziest thing. I don't know if you have in your life anyone that you're very close to that passed away. In high school, I knew a guy.

Right. Yeah. But they remain with you. So there's not a day that really goes by that I don't talk to her, ask for advice. To me, that's a very natural relationship to have with someone who's passed over. Was she older than you?

Mm-hmm, four years. Four years, and how old was she when she passed? 13. Oh, so you were nine. Yeah, I was nine years old. So that's not like you know you that you got memories yeah I got memories absolutely good memories great memories and you know of course bad ones too but it's a waste of time to really focus on those bad memories like

what nine yeah yeah and um my sister is someone I. And naming a record after her just felt like the only possible scenario. Yeah. Because it's something I'm doing for the first time on my own. Producing. Yeah. Writing all the songs on my own. Making all the decisions for the tonality of the record and what's being said and how I'm saying it and how everything's coming across and that's me and then within that a big part of me was my sister and the memory she left me because all the things she loved i she taught me how to love them like what uh art yeah music

yeah instruments learning she knew that like she knew that much that was what she was into when she was oh yeah she was brilliant absolutely yeah, she was brilliant Absolutely brilliant. She was a poet musician artist She could do anything and she taught me how to do everything Cuz we didn't have a lot of money and I was growing up so my sister's like I'll show you how to have fun Yeah, we'll go back out here pretend with riding horses and just run around the yard. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so that's those are great memories Yes, it is good that like I as tragic as it is, it's good that you have them. I talked to Sean Lennon in here.

And he has to kind of nurture and maintain, because he was five when John got shot. So he has to kind of protect those few that he has and hold them like you know you know kind of nurture them yeah so they stay alive absolutely isn't that trip and like he in the same way he you know he learned about who his father was through learning how to play Beatles song Wow is why you guys are on the same label I think but it's yo yeah yeah he I think that's the less Claypool thing that he does. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like in the same way, you know, you kind of remember your sister is giving you these gifts of interest in these things that she was passionate about. So that stays alive.

Yes, it stays alive. But also saying the name and then not bringing any sorrow or sadness. or sadness, but it's like saying the name and feeling powerful and empowered by it and saying, like, this is my resistance to falling into being sad and staying in the memory trap and never living my own life because of grief. And I think naming the record Jamie after my sisters also really helped my parents as well. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Because now there's something attached to it that's not sadness.

Oh, right. And it's me. I made it. So they get to look at that and say it and be proud. And I have to worry about what people think. Yeah. So did you find that the grief just hung over them your whole life of losing her? Yes. 20 years.

Yeah. You know, my dad, they're absolutely different people. They're totally different people, my mother and my father. My dad, I feel like he dealt with it in his own private way, and my mother had a much harder time. Yeah, they're not together? No, no, no, they split. Yeah?

Same year my sister passed away, they split. Do you think it was because of that? Because they couldn't handle the weight of it? I think they were just, despite whether my sister had survived or passed away i think they probably should have split yeah they're just too different yeah yeah what's it what's your old man do he's a used car salesman and what's your mom do um my mom she's she works with animals yeah rescues animals oh really yeah she's an animal person definitely freelance animal rescuer she do it for freelance She works with animals. Yeah. Rescues animals. Oh, really? Yeah. She's an animal person.

Definitely. Freelance animal rescuer, or does she do it for- Freelance. Anytime there's an animal in need of rescuing, she'll come? She's got like five German shepherds, two pot-bellied pigs. A pot-bellied pig? Like 20 goats. Goats? Yeah.

Does she milk them? No, thank God. Her goats, she needs to get some more goats in the breeding population because they're coming out weird now. They are? Yeah. Some of them got three nipples. Some of them ain't got no nipples.

Does she live on a farm? Yeah, they got like a farm situation. Is that an apartment? No. Or a house? She's crammed with goats. She needs to be on Animal Planet. Oh, that sounds funny.

If that was the case. So, like, in the spirit, like, well, that's interesting because, like, I've talked to, I've had Blake Mills in here. I know Blake, you know, kind of. Like, I talked to him because, you know, he's kind of an amazing guitar player. But he did such an amazing job, you know, producing Sound and Color, your record, right? You work with that guy. And then I don't like the first record.

Who did your first record? I produced it. We did. You just did it. Yeah. Which sounded great. Yeah, we did. We were really young, too.

Like, now that I think about it, that was a very long time ago. It was, right? 2012? 11, 12? Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. I mean, so when does it start to, like, you start playing at 11,

which I imagine in the shadow of losing your sister had to bring some relief too, right? The guitar. Yeah, I just, me growing up as a child, there was a lot of grief and sadness. So I think having my own power over my own world through creation, that was my bright spot. So I would just go in my room and taught myself how to play. Yeah? From chord charts or what? I just listened.

Really? Figured I should have. No guitar lessons? No, no, no. Nope. And you were just on like a borrowed acoustic? Well, it was my sister's guitar. She had a guitar from like Make-A-Wish Foundation, I think it was.

It was like one of these old JCPenney Les Paul knockoffs. Oh, yeah. To this day, I won't play a Les Paul. So it was electric you started with? It was electric. I didn't have an amp for the longest time. So I just, I mean, I was just, I just wanted to play. And I made it happen.

And were you just, were you learning songs? Yeah. You know, I started off with the songs I could figure out, like Green Day. Green Day's your first ones? Yeah. I learned how to play Longview on somebody's bass because I didn't have, you know, like I had smashed that guitar because my mom, she, this is a terrible story, but I smashed that guitar because my mom, she, this is a terrible story, but I smashed my sister's guitar because my mom was, it was so precious to my mother. And I don't think my mother was understanding that like I am playing the guitar.

I know it belongs to my sister, but this is now my guitar. So I went and smashed it. Really? To teach your mom a lesson? Oh God, it was a horrible thing to do, but I was just frustrated. I was just so frustrated and I smashed it

and I was like, now I'll have to get a new one. Interesting. So like, but it's, how old were you when you did that? I was like,

I was 11, 12. 11? Yeah, I was a kid. So was it, do you think it was because of your frustration because like, your mom wasn't quite seeing who you were because she was so consumed with losing her other daughter?

I think that's exactly it. And I don't think at the time when I was a kid I even had the comprehension of why I was actually doing it. I was just angry. Well, yeah. And I smashed it. Well, because it's just sort of like it's that thing. It's also the thing that you're talking about not doing which is essentially yeah living in the past yeah i think that's why um that yeah never thought about it mark

yeah it's this yeah i mean right yeah i mean they could it could that could be that moment yeah i think you're right wow then it might all stem from from just the hanging on to the past the to the to the sort of like to to the the grief yeah of losing a daughter losing a sister and that that moment where you fought back at it was essentially a strangely musical moment in a way you trashed your first guitar to get out of the past and to to own yourself from your mother's you know to own yourself from your mother's, you know, to free yourself from your mother's, you know. Or from the world we were living in. Yeah.

It was just that, it was just that world. And, you know. What world was that? Oh, just, you know, the blinds are shut, it's dark in the house, that kind of world. Oh, yeah? Yeah. And, you know, I didn't even get a new guitar for the longest time. It was kind of ironic.

I smashed that guitar. It was literally the only guitar I ran. And so you were without a guitar. Yeah, I had to borrow one from Alabama Shades guitar player Heath. I borrowed his SG because he just had an extra guitar. And that's... You're a guitar player? Yeah, I borrowed a guitar from him.

You knew him when you were a kid? No. You were a guitar player? Yeah, I borrowed a guitar from him. You knew him when you were a kid? No. When I smashed that guitar up, I think the only thing I had left was my music teacher let me borrow an acoustic guitar. There you go.

So that's all I had. So you had a music teacher. Oh, well, like band, like marching band. Oh. Yeah, so. Yeah, of course I was in marching band. What instruments did you play in marching band? I played the bass drum.

Oh, yeah? Marching bass drum. So you were kind of a nerd kid? Yeah. Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do. You know, I was like that. And, yeah, I played percussion. Was that your first instrument, the drums?

Yeah, drums. Yeah, yeah, because drums are free. Right. You can drum anywhere Because drums are free. Right. You can drum anywhere using just your hands. Right. You got rhythm. Yeah, me and my cousins, we first started making money. We were real small.

We would play harmonica and buckets. And we would just go to people's doors, knock on the door, and just get to it. Yeah. And then be like, give us a dollar. Really? Yeah, it was terrible. Can you imagine some little kids going up and going, whoo? It didn't sound good, you don't think?

It was horrible. Couldn't play harmonica. I could just breathe. How was the drumming with your cousins? It was probably pretty good. Yeah? Yeah, it was just automatic. So who were the people you were listening to?

Because when I listen to the records, all of them, there just seems to be, and it's weird. And congratulations, you got a Grammy nomination a grammy a nomination for this record for your solo record oh yeah yeah which for ones for the best rock performance yeah best rock performance yeah i think it's really interesting i was nominated for rock performance well that's what i was gonna ask you there's like there's like and you've been nominated for like and then the last record won for what all rock album yeah it is a hard thing to classify though i think what i do i don't think it's obvious and i nominated for a best rock performance yeah best rock song oh which one

history repeats oh great yeah well i mean it's sort of i i guess but that doesn't bother you i mean obviously being beyond categorization is something exciting. But this fact that like, you know, is it Americana? Is it rock? Is it soul? Alternative seems to be a cop out to me on some level. Because like if I listen, but I'm also a little saturated in a very specific era of music. You sound like a soul singer.

Do you feel like a soul singer? I sing for my soul. Right? Yeah. But I mean, in terms of stylistically. Stylistically, I can. I can also sound like a lot of things. Yeah, well, I know.

I listen to Thunder Bitch, which is big. It reminds me of the New York Dolls. Yeah. Or the Ramones, or first wave New York punk. That's literally one of my favorite projects I've ever done. Just because it's so free. So freeing. Straight up. Yeah.

Just don't give, don't care. Pre-chord rock and roll. That's it. Simple, makes you feel something. Yeah. And then the end. Right. Because I've been reading a lot about, I have to, I'm going to be in this movie, this Aretha

Franklin biopic. That's exciting. It is exciting. I played Jerry Wexler. Oh, congrats. Thanks, man. Yeah. But I just read his autobiography,

so I'm reading the whole sort of movement from swing jazz to bop jazz to soul music to R&B music to crossover music to Muscle Shoals to that whole scene. And there's like a vibe with the original band, with Alabama Shakes, just because of the bass player. There is a vibe, you know, with the original band, with Alabama Shakes, just because of the bass player.

There is a vibe and I think a recollection somehow of that place in music history. Yeah. I think to us collectively, when we first started the group Alabama Shakes, that was the only kind of music we could really agree on. Oh, really? We all liked that kind of music. Southern soul music? Yeah, just because it had good

rhythm section um and me and zach and well all of us really really liked looking at the liner notes on those old records oh yeah because we like knowing who was in the rhythm section yeah because we're all drummers at heart so we're like oh yeah i love this drummer i love oh duck done love duck done yeah bass player yeah yeah and we're always looking at the liner notes. And so we were like, hey, let's do music like this. We love this music. We understand this music. We were educated on this music.

Right. And that's where it began. Educated on that music. Like, you know, like because of where you grew up or what you were listening to at home. I think what we listened to when we were kids. Yeah. Like who in particular stands out to you oh my goodness um i go back to doo-wop music because yeah i spent a lot of time with my grandma oh yeah so i listened to the crystals and marvelettes and you know all

that phil specter stuff that he was putting out and all those big giant giant reverb vocals, walls of sound. Martha and the Vandellas. Yeah. What was his band? The Ronettes. The Ronettes. Ronnie Spector. Yeah.

I loved the Crystals especially. They had great songs. And me and my grandma dancing to that in the kitchen while we were making biscuits. Right, yeah. Knowing all the words. And then eventually in my life, I run into Zach. Zach's like, oh, yeah, I know all them songs too. Also, check this out.

Yeah. And we were really into, I mean, the classics. I mean, Aretha, Otis. Right. That's like you can hear that, right? I mean, I can hear that in the records. I can hear that underneath a lot of the stuff you do still. Yeah. And a lot of people expect that I would want to emulate that but it's

just the way it came out i didn't know my voice was as strong as it was until we were practicing together because we didn't have a pa system right so i'm just yelling over all these instruments and that's where and then we found out oh we can do this kind of material we can do you know because you could belt it out you could do it because i could sing yeah it doesn't strike me i didn't like i didn't didn't feel like, it's weird. When I listen to all your stuff, usually when I talk to somebody who does music, I try to just spend a day with the music,

kind of going through what stays true all the way through. And it doesn't feel to me like you're doing anything to mimic or copy or even as an homage it sounds like this is how you sing yeah this is how i sing right but it's weird that it drops into a groove that is a legacy of something right yeah and like i said before that had a lot to do with what we could agree upon and what our education was why we love that kind of music and the fact of the matter was that was the golden age for musicians and right especially studio cats yeah and we love the studio cats yeah and we love the pocket yeah we're in pocket we nerd out about what how they get that snare drum sound like

that yeah or hey that's not one drum set that's a guy over here playing the cymbal right and then the drummer's over here on the other side of the room. We would nerd out about stuff like that, and we were super into it. That's so wild. So, like, that's exactly Jerry Wexler's trip. I mean, because he was a dude that got obsessed with that studio for very specific reasons. And he had a very specific sense of what things should sound like. And he just loved that place, and he loved those guys. It was, what, Spooner Oldham and Dave Hood.

And I forget the other guy. I should know all the names by now. It was interesting because he brings, I guess he started down there with Wilson Pickett and then he brought Aretha down there. And these are all white dudes that were doing this. And there was this sort of weird moment where like,

these are the guys? And they could do it and then i what what really struck me was that wexler used them for atlantic sessions all around like they're all over the place those guys it gives me a respect for yeah and that's that's what we held to the highest standard was how good is your rhythm section and where do you place the other two guitars being me and he fogged other guitar players and where do you place the other two guitars being me and he fogged other guitar players and what do you mean place them like in this what's our purpose no what's our purpose around the rhythm section oh interesting yeah so where'd you find your guys

like the uh like when did you when would you when did you start first playing with people in high school uh no i think i was in my first band when i was either 12 or 13 uh-huh i wanted that was my number one goal was to be in a band because of the guys you saw yeah in the gym i was like that's possible that's the coolest possible thing that i could do right and i was so even now when i think back on how determined and driven i was i'm just like how and where is that or has it transformed and i still got it but it just feels different yeah i don't know maybe it's just because i was a little kid but i was breathing music and you're in your band at 12 you ever had a band yeah we're called kerosene swim team kerosene swim team

terrible band yeah yeah we were 12 yeah but we loved it What were the instruments of that band? Drummer, bass. Oh, you had full. Guitar. Yeah. Yeah, I was actually taking kids from marching band and just being like, do you know how to play drums? And they're like, well, kind of. Like, well, come to my house after school.

I'm going to teach you how to play drums. You're going to be in my band. And then we just had this rotating door of drummers. Like all bands should. Yeah. Rotating drummer door. You know, that's the mythos. And how long did kerosene

uh what was it kerosene swim team swim team west man it's so funny because we didn't really have no songs we just had merchandise like what kind of merchandise at 12 uh it's just shirts and hoodies we have songs we have coffee cups really yeah we're selling everything who made that for you uh some website you could do you, you could just order it? Yeah, you could just make it and have it. Yeah, it was selling. It was selling. Oh, good.

Well, that's good. I wonder if anyone's got any of that stuff left still. And then what happens? Then what's the next band? The next band, I think it was called Madam Tandori's Hammer House. It was like a prog rock band. You were in a prog rock band? Yeah.

Guitar playing? Yeah, I played guitar in that band. Prog guitar player. There was like eight of prog rock band. You were in a prog rock band? Yeah. Guitar playing? Yeah, I played guitar in that band. Prog guitar player. Yeah, it was like eight of us in that band. We were like a trumpet player. Really experimental stuff. And it was funny. We won a talent well and win the talent show.

We got people's choice at the talent show. And there was this one kid's drunk dad, and he was just like, woo! He's like, man, I love that. It's like Rush. Rush. You got the prog rock guy yeah so we got that dude's dad and um and then after that uh we i just did my own thing yeah didn't have a band for a while just play wrote music you just play out at that time on your own you're just singing and writing songs yeah you know where i'm from there really wasn't anywhere to play at all um but eventually i got into high school and i met zach bass player yeah still play with him to this day yeah you guys seem tight yeah that's my brother

yeah yeah we both have like a really mutual respect for each other yeah just kind of getting it so yeah because he's on the new record yeah Yeah. Oh, yeah. I play with him. I tour with him. And he's also my best friend. Yeah. Because he's playing with some heavies on this record. Mm-hmm. And he fits right in.

That's great. Yeah, talented dude. And also the funniest dude I've ever met in my entire life. Yeah. The dude, God, he's so quick. Yeah. Cracks me up. He's good.

He reminds me of that old-style studio guy from that 70s era, you know, or 60s. He's legit. Yeah. Cracks me up. He's good. He reminds me of that old-style studio guy from that 70s era, you know, or 60s. He's legit. But once we started playing together, we both just practiced after school every day. Just the two of you? Yeah, just two of us. You on guitar and him on the bass? And then sometimes he'd play drums, or I'd play drums, or I'd play some keys on it. And we just kind of made our own little songs.

And it was just me and Zach for a long time. And then we met our drummer steve he worked at uh he worked at the only music shop we had and uh in athens and i just came in i saw him playing drums i was like hey you want jam sometime and he's like sure and he came by and jam he's like oh man I'd love to be in y'all's band and I was like for real cause at the time he was like the best drummer

in sound so I was like whoa I was like Zach we're cooking now we did like a little demo at a studio

and then just as a three piece as a three piece and Heath the guitar player see the thing is Heath was in Stoned Phillips

he was the guitar player from the band you saw when you were a kid? Yep. And he hits us up. He has a band. They're cool as hell.

They're called Two Coast Pistol. Yeah. And he was like, hey, I want y'all to open. I heard y'all's demo. I want y'all to open for us. For Stone Phillips? No, it was a new band. No, Two Coast Pistol.

Two Coast Pistol. Right, got it. And I was like, well, actually, if you help us out by playing with us a little bit, we could probably do that. He's like, all right, I'll do that. So now we got Heath Fogg, who I thought was like the coolest guitar player. Because Two Coats Pistol played cool music, especially for Athens, Alabama. They played Prince, David Bowie.

They played all this stuff, glam stuff. Covers? Yeah. All covers? Far less so. Yeah. But it was awesome. Yeah.

And so now we got the band. You stole them from Chico's Pistol. I did steal them. You know, and we opened up the show and we had like 30 minutes worth of covers. We had like three original songs. And first time I ever sang in front of anybody. It was at a bar. It's called The Brick Deli.

It's in Decatur, Alabama. And, you know, they sell sandwiches. They sell beer. Yeah. And they got a little stage in the corner. And they sell sandwiches. They sell beer. Yeah. And they got a little stage in the corner. And you did it? So I was so nervous. And somebody else had played.

They left. And so here we come walking on stage, and everybody's looking at us like crazy because we look so different from each other. Does Zach have the beard and stuff already? He had a mustache at that time. One of them curly ones. Yeah. And a golfer cap. Yeah. Like one of them curly ones. Yeah. And a golfer cap.

Yeah. So he's going up there. Yeah. And then here's this big tall black woman going up there. Yeah. And then here's Heath who looks like a nice guy. Yeah. And then there's Steve in the back with a Celtics jersey on it, the drum set.

And people looking at us like, what is this about to sound like? And we started set with a James Brown cover. And we just hit him like that. And people just. What? Sat up in the seat? What the 30 minutes flew by. I don't even remember it, but you killed,

huh? Oh, people are standing up and clapping. And I was like, I can't believe it. They like it. And then the best part, Mark,

at the end of the night, I walk off the stage and they hand me some money. It was $200. Yeah. And I was like, what's this for? And I was like, do I split this? They're like, no, that's for you. And I was like, what?

I didn't pay my utility bill for this. What about the rest of the guys? Everybody got paid. Everybody got paid $200. Really? Yeah, which is like crazy. That is crazy. That's great.

I mean, that was probably the only time we ever got paid that good during know during that time period but hey that's what's nice it's a good way to sort of give you incentive right well it was supposed to be a one-off mark right we weren't going to stay a band it was just supposed to be like a thing but well so what was that conversation i mean what was like uh like heath what did he how did that kind of evolve? Because now that you mention why you liked him and that second band, Two Coast Pistols, there is some, especially on the second record, you can hear that type of rock music

moving through some of those songs. There's almost this sort of a Bowie-ish kind, I can't remember which song I'm thinking of. Yeah, Dunes. Yeah. And it just strikes me that you kind of, the chemistry between you guys and the respect and that he comes from that type of music,

he's got a mind for it. It kind of worked out, huh? It all worked out. I mean, that's the thing. Right after the show, we all kind of stood and like, sounds like a scene from a movie, but we were all standing in a circle, putting his money in our pockets. And we looked at each other and I was like, well, guys, that was really fun. And he was like, yeah, that was awesome. And we all looked at each other like, we should do this again. Just kept playing, kept writing original songs. And that was that.

And we just word of mouth, like we played with other bands. We actually got shows. We would drive all the way five hours to play one show, get paid $100 for all of us. And then we just did it because we were making music. That's real band shit. Yeah, that's real shit. Yeah. And now how long did you continue to play a few covers? Yeah, we always played covers just because it was fun.

You know, we played some Zeppelin. I really like Led Zeppelin a lot. I really like that kind of music a whole lot. Yeah, which tunes? Which Zepp tunes? How Many More Times. Yeah. We played some Live and Love and Made.

Lemon Song. Yeah. Lemon Song. Yeah. The Crunch? Yeah. Is that what it's called? The Grunge? The Crunch, yeah. The Crunch, yeah.

The Crunch, yeah. But you like the Zeppelin? I love Zeppelin. Yeah. I also played ACDC Let There Be Rock. Yeah. And I played that whole solo. You did?

Oh, I made myself stay up and learn the whole thing. Angus' Wicks? Yeah, because I was like, if they see a tall black woman playing this solo, they're going to call us back. So I was like, I got to learn it. I got to learn it. And I stayed up and I learned all of it until my fingers hurt so bad. But it made me a better guitar player. You played Let There Be Rock?

Hell yeah, I did. What? Yep. In the beginning. In the beginning. Yeah. Also, we played Fairies Wear Boots, Black Sabbath. So we're doing those kind of classic rock songs.

Hard rock. Yeah. Yeah. And then also, we were doing James Brown. We were doing Loretta Lynn. Yeah. And we were taking those songs and kind of making them how we can make it. Kind of like that garage rock kind of ode to doo-wop, though.

Sure. And also, by doing that, you sort of give yourself this interesting musical education. Mm-hmm. Right? Absolutely. Because by integrating all of that stuff into your voices, into your voice, and into the band's voice, then it all informs the originals, right? Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And I learned so much about music just from the other guys. Steve would be like, I really like this song, Space Truckin' by, was it Deep Purple? Deep Purple, yeah. And I was like, come on. Let's give it a shot. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Yeah. And that is what formed, that's what started happening when we were going to record Boys and Girls. It was just kind of like a garage rock take on some of that music from back then that was actually a lot more produced. Produced. Yeah. Yeah.

Mainstream big rock sounds. Right. So then- But it's weird because I don't like i don't feel like do you feel like that first record's a garage record it seemed pretty tight to me and kind of like soulful and didn't seem didn't feel like it felt tight i just well we played tight but i just remember how it felt when we were performing the shows right it was very rock and roll yeah yeah yeah yeah you know we used to be drinking back then and everything yeah but um then then

there was sound and color and sound and color was actually a record that i really took a lot of reins on um because we had been touring so hard guys kind of took a break i think um one of them had some kids you know i can't remember i can't remember somebody was having a child i think and it was just you know i'll just put it this way. Everybody deserved a break. We've been working our asses off touring so much. Touring that record. So hard.

And I just kind of forgot to like take a break. And I went straight into, maybe I took a month off, but went straight into writing material for Sound and Color. And it was just kind of different. Everything was different. What was the thought? What was different about it? Like what changed? You felt like you had more experience, I imagine.

You felt like you had some sort of skill set and a following. I think just being curious, wanting to make something that I was excited by. Yeah. So what was the approach? What was like, you know, like how did you know it was different? It was because I was multi-tracking a lot of the songs myself like doing demos yeah and i but the difference was i would have everything fleshed out uh-huh all the parts all the parts and and i would have this song

and then i would just put it away and then i'd do another one and then i'd know okay and then i'd be like this one i want to write a string section on it and i was just creating in such a different way i was staying up all hours of the night just getting weird yeah i built like a i built like a spaceship studio setting down in my basement there was a bat that lived in my basement and i didn't even get rid of him just let him live in there yeah sure yeah he brings something yeah he ate the books and so how yeah how does how does blake mills get involved in this um you know i always have a i always i really loved blake's record break mirrors yeah i thought that was just like the coolest

sounding record and i really loved his songwriting style i thought it was really unique and that weirdo guitar he plays love love his guitar playing and but the thing i love the most about blake was his attention to detail. Yeah. Because I love details. Right. And so hearing him and how he made everything important. Yeah. We wanted to find a producer really for someone who could get us organized and get us, like, so to speak, light a fire under our ass. Yeah.

Because we were kind of just chilling. Right. Like, I had some stuff, but we were mostly just chilling. Right. Which felt great, because we had been on a very long tour. But you put together a few demos. So you put together, like, a handful of songs, right? Oh, yeah.

I'd say I had most of the record. Yeah. Yeah. Because, like, on that record, because you can hear with Blake, I know he's real sort of perfectionist and kind of anal about stuff, but it's interesting, because because like you said everything stands out but like there's there's almost a shape to the bass notes with like you know like he's got some sort of strange ear doesn't he he has a wonderful ear i mean it's like insane yeah yeah yeah yeah

he's one of a kind for sure and did he play at all on the record a bit? No. No? He just really? I think he might have done some percussion on one of the songs. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Which is funny. So at that point, like working with a guy like that and having the experience of sort of collectively producing the first album, which is just kind of raw rock approach,

you started to feel like you wanted to tackle it. You started to understand production a little better from doing it like in the basement with the bat and then working with blake and then going into a solo record you're like fuck it i'm gonna do it well i will definitely say i was also producing on sound and color we were producing together all of us sure as a group. And the songwriting and all the parts. I had produced most of the record. Yeah. I guess it's hard for me to understand exactly how it all works.

Yeah, me too. Because there's an engineer, there's a producer, and then there's another producer. I don't know what's credits and what isn't. I don't know either, really. I think that was always kind of confusing to me as well because i just thought i actually until that point thought that all bands wrote their own music i had no idea that right people didn't write their own music oh yeah so when i went in there it was a bit of like a struggle getting

used to someone have give me some ideas um being blake yeah yeah it was just because i'm not used to it sure just trying to figure that out yeah but then it really developed into just like a really healthy respect of each other's minds and uh it turned to be it turned out to be something wonderful and for me uh life altering how long does it take to uh record a record like that i can't remember What does it take to record a record like that? I can't remember. Wow. Maybe a month. Really?

Maybe, yeah, it's kinda hard to remember at this point, but I think a month, maybe. It was life-altering for you, just in terms of where it, the attention it brought the band, or? There was that, but it was also the type of songs we were doing. I felt freer, because I didn't want to be soul revival band because there's so much more

to a lot to speak for myself yeah i'm sure to the other guys as well but there's so much more to me musically it's more interesting than staying there did you feel like you were there was a threat of you staying there that there was some people that wanted you there yes yeah i think people love putting things in boxes and they love being able to figure it out. So they would look at me and be like, oh yeah, big black woman sings soul music. That makes sense. But I was like, but that's not all of who I am.

So when we started doing Sound and Color, there was more of my expression that got to be free. Songs like Gemini, songs like Dunes. I wrote that song to completion after I watched a movie. You know, like being able to... I watched Dune? Yeah, I watched Dune. I didn't like it, but I did get that song.

A lot going on in that movie. Yeah, there's too much going on in that movie. But yeah, being free. And then furthermore, doing this record now, being totally free. Jamie. Yes. Well, I mean, working with Robert Glasper and with the drummer, what's his name, Nate?

Nate Smith. I mean, these are real jazz dudes. And how did you get involved with them? It goes back to the beginning. My passion is rhythm sections. Right. My passion, first and foremost, is players. I love musicians. I wouldn't really consider myself a musician.

Yeah. But I can pick up an instrument and use it as a means to an end. Sure. I like just creating things. Yeah. And so I've been following Nate for probably three years now, just him as a drummer. Yeah. I love an end. Sure. I like just creating things. Yeah. And so, I've been following Nate for probably three years now, just him as a drummer.

Yeah. I love drummers. Yeah. And to me, he's my favorite drummer in the whole world. Really? I think he's the greatest

drummer in the world. Now, what determines something like that? Because I listen to drummers, I'm sure I listen to them much different than you do, but it took me a while

to really appreciate the differences and the nuances. So, what about his drummer? What does he do? What's his signature thing that he does that makes you go like, this guy's the guy? Have you ever heard him play?

I heard him on your record. I think I've heard him with, I don't know who else he's played with. He has his own group called Kim Folk. But just any drum shop video he's doing. The thing I love the most about Nate Smith is the way he expresses himself through drums. It's not like, look at me. Yeah. I can technically do all this stuff.

Uh-huh. It's like the way he does it. Uh-huh. The way he does it to me feels like the dirt of the earth. Uh-huh. Like original, you know, talking about like goat skin strapped to like a log, like original drum, like original what it's about, gets in people. He has a lot of emotion in the way he expresses himself through the drum skins.

And that's why I relate to Nate Smith and why I wanted him and asked him to be on this record. Wow. And it's the same thing with Robert Glasper. Robert has a very big personality. You should have him on the show, actually. I'd like to. I mean, I've been spending a lot of time the the last couple years really kind of trying to get into jazz deeper

and that that there's that amazing new movie out about blue note records you know beyond the notes and and he's all through it you know he's a new blue note guy he's connecting a lot of young people that's right back to jazz right be through hip-hop too yeah exactly yeah because it all makes sense it does it's all connected yeah and i wanted rob on it because rob was doing a first i love his playing i love his personality i love who he is yeah he loves what he does yeah and i wanted some of that energy on this record uh-huh and and i really wanted him not you know i i wrote a lot of parts that needed to be how they were but then there there was also a song, 13th Century Metal, where he just went in. Yeah, that's a trippy song, man.

What's the story on that song? It's funny. We were working on another song, and we had set up these keyboards. We were looking for like a funny, wonky sound. And we said, hey, Rob, go in there and mess with that keyboard. Let's get some sounds off that keyboard real quick. And he just goes in and just starts playing it. Eight minutes later, we had the whole song oh my god and like why that title where i mean not that

it matters well it just sounds like that to me 13th century playing like some like gregorian chords like you know what i mean it's like it's like trippy and then like the guitar is coming at the end and it's like really chaotic and oppressive. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah. The thing is, I love music. I know that sounds so cheesy and corny and goofy, but it does something to me that when I hear it, I see things. I visualize things.

I go elsewhere. I just really am taken to a different place, and it elevates me. Listening to it can change my entire perception of what I'm going through. Really? Just a song. Yeah. It's really, really important to me. And it's entertaining.

Of course, music is entertaining. But it's also like something else is going on. It feels that way. Because when I watch you perform and sing, I get emotional. And I'm not even that big a words guy. It's not about the words. It's about what you put into it. And there's like a rawness to it

and an honesty to it that's almost overwhelming for me. You know, I get moved. And it's not even about like, I have to listen to an album three times before I can even hear words. I understand. I hear melody, I hear rhythm, and I hear hooks, I hear guitars,

I hear all the other instruments, but words are very hard for me to focus on. Yeah. Because if I'm going to focus on words, I'm not listening to any of the other stuff. First thing I hear is, what's this drum beat doing? Yeah.

What's that bass player doing? Yeah. What's that bass player doing? Yeah. What's the point of these guitars? What's the point of these guitars? People just be putting guitars on everything, just solos and put this on here and put this part over here. What's it doing? Yeah.

What's it doing? I feel like there's not a lot of people who are asking that question, what's it for? Well, you're very deliberate about the guitar parts. There was one I was just listening to. I don't know if it's on the new one or if it's on the other one. I think it's on the Sound and Color where it's almost like it's a guitar run underneath. It's playing the rhythm to a degree, but it's a note for note thing that

repeats itself. It's like a big arc of a riff. I don't remember what song it's on, but it's a very decisive kind of guitar trip going on there. Yeah. It's just supposed to inform you how you're supposed to feel when you're about to listen to these words. Everything's connected. But what about your sense of melody? Does that just happen naturally?

Yeah. The melody, it has to feel good to sing, and it also has to carry my message. Whatever I'm trying to relate to somebody, I got to be singing like that on this record that i just put out jamming i sing so many different ways yeah because to me everything's like a little vignette yeah it's like this is how i feel right now but sometimes i feel this way yeah sometimes i'm outraged 13th century metal i have no singing to do i just got to tell you what i got to tell you right

there's songs like that and then there's songs where i feel small feel juvenile a song like georgia yeah makes me feel like a child and i have to sing it like a child where'd that one come from how do you mean the song did it come from a childhood experience or with the thoughts of it no it was just like sort of like a fantasy world oh the emotions were childish yeah yeah it was just sort of like a fantasy world. Oh, the emotions were childish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just a fantasy world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's how I came at things. I came at it like this because I'm like, that's how I may be able to get people to feel where I'm coming from. Uh-huh.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's like a doorway into you. Yeah. Which, when you say that, it makes me sound like I'm giving myself some kind of extra importance. But I don't know. It's not like about that because people ask me, well, why'd you do this record? I'm just like, making records is kind of what I do.

I don't have a great answer. I don't have like a great, brilliant, philosophical answer. Yeah, well, it's not like, well, I think like, well, getting back to the child thing, like that's interesting you say that because like when you offer that part of yourself up, when you show your childish emotions, especially if somebody like me, I think there's the emotional honesty of showing your childishness emotionally is probably the realest you can be in a way. Because I know emotionally I'm a fucking child. Most of us are.

Right? So if there's an opportunity where I can show that without being found out in a way or actually engaged in an interaction where I'm behaving childishly, there's a real honesty to that. It's almost heartbreaking and beautiful if you have that within you to show it. Yeah.

I feel like ideally, if everyone was running around being more like children in a how do i say this in a more positive joyous way right open way like yeah yeah embracing the yeah um well let's say world probably be a lot more fun to be in that's for sure but it seems like everyone's running away from being a child they don't want to be a child they don't want to act childish they don't want to cry when they need to cry because they're scared. Well, that's one thing. But I think that there's the childishness. The one thing I noticed about myself, I don't know where your anger is, but if you have

childish emotions and you rage like a child, but you're a grown adult, that's scary. Well, yeah, but now you you gotta take care of that little kid in you that's angry i know but you're grown i know yeah i know it's crazy isn't it right you know because i find myself i used to you know rage out and throw tantrums and i'm like you know if you're five you know this is manageable right yeah but you know you're 45 dude no and it's like toxic yeah you ain't gonna get by with that one somebody gonna pull your card one day and beat you down yeah my card got pulled a couple times

but yeah you know so and that's the kind of work I'll do with my creativity too is to process that stuff yeah I think that's the same thing as what I'm doing is processing out loud in front of everyone night after night.

Right, but music is magic, so you got that. You know what I mean? It's not just talking. There's a magic to it. So you surround your expression of these emotional truths with beautiful sounds, melodies, drums, all that stuff, and it goes in that way. If you were just up there talking, going like,

I'm fucked up. It's like, all right. This isn't entertaining. I would go to that way. If you were just up there talking, going like, I'm fucked up. It's like, this isn't entertaining. I would go to that show. That's as honest as you can get. I'm fucked up and here's why. This is it. Thank you for coming. Yeah. You know, being a musician up there, I don't really like the talking part where you're going to be like, hey, guys, welcome to the show. Waka, waka, waka. All that stuff. I don't like that stuff.

That's not, I'm not real good at that. Very few musicians are. I'm actually kind of a bashful person. I like to laugh. I like to have fun. Yeah. But I don't like giving group speeches. Yeah.

But when you're singing, you have the vibrations and you have all this information. Everything's information. And then I'm also saying what I'm saying to you. And everything gets to resonate to this giant crowd of people who also are having their own feelings and creating their own energy within this auditorium, theater. And there's a symbiotic thing going on. But it's a crazy feeling. I bet. Yeah. Because you're playing in big houses now, right's a crazy feeling. I bet. Yeah.

Because you're playing in big houses now, right? Yeah, pretty big. Yeah? Yeah. And you meet a lot of your heroes? I have. I have. Heroes.

Because, you know, you get higher up the rung in show business, all of a sudden you're hanging out with those people where you're like, oh, my God. That's that person. Yeah, it's so interesting uh my heroes are people you wouldn't really expect yeah like uh there's someone named georgia ann moldrow she's a producer she makes music herself and she's someone who really inspires me yeah yeah her honesty her childlike nature she's so open where'd you get hip to her? My keyboard player told me about her a few years ago. And once I started listening to her music,

I was like, I, when I was growing up, I'm not accustomed to seeing female producers. The first female producer I could think of was Missy Elliott. It was hugely inspiring that she was doing everything by herself. And I'll never forget her saying into the camera thing with MTV Cribs.

Yeah. She's like, if you want to make real money, you got to write it, produce it, and sing it, and make your own videos. And she's like, that's where it's at. And I was like, oh, great. I'll do that then. That sunk in. Yeah.

And so Georgianne Muldrow is a hero that I think goes unsung. Oh, great. Yeah. Yeah. So I got to be on the road with her and play with her and watch her do her thing, sing with her. That's just elevated my mood to a thousand percent. That's great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

To actually get to work with the people that you respect is great. Yeah, and see her do her thing, man. And it's like heroes, everybody would expect like, oh, yeah, you got to work with the people that you respect? It's great. Yeah, and see, I do a thing, man. And it's like the heroes, like, you know, everybody would expect like, oh, yeah, you got to meet, I don't know, like Sammy Hagar or like whatever. I don't know. Did you meet Sammy Hagar? No, I just don't think of any musical heroes. Paul McCartney.

Oh, okay. But Paul, he's a cool guy. Yeah. It's funny, too. I like the Beatles and stuff. I didn't grow up on the Beatles like a lot of people's a cool guy. Yeah. It's funny, too. I like the Beatles and stuff. I didn't grow up on the Beatles like a lot of people older than me did. Yeah.

The Beatles to me was de facto. This is music. This is hits. This is what music's supposed to. This is one of those pinnacles that was there. Yeah. I kind of took it for granted in a way because it wasn't new.

Right. It was always there. It's familiar. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's an ever present. I kind of took it for granted, but then I started listening to the Beatles more and I was like, wow, this is just sick. Right. It's like it was always there. It's familiar. It's just, yeah. It's an ever present. I kind of took it for granted. Yeah. But then I started listening to Beatles more and I was like, wow, this is sick.

I really like John Lennon. Yeah. I like his songs a lot. And then I met Paul McCartney. I didn't know what to expect. Yeah. And he was like the coolest dude to hang out with. I hung out with him one night.

He was up later than me. I left club at 2 a.m. He was still there. Yeah. Till like 4 a.m. Just chilling. And then I got to sing with him and he was just the nicest, most disarming. later than me. I left club at 2 a.m. He was still there. Yeah. Till like 4 a.m. Just chilling. And then I got to sing with him and he was just the nicest,

most disarming, just cool, chill dude. Yeah, I met him once. I interviewed him publicly and I was sort of surprised. Yeah,

yeah, he's fun. Well, yeah, because you got to figure like that guy's been a public personality since he was like 20.

Yeah, he's made for it too. Yeah, but it's like it's his whole life yeah if you're in the beatles which one do you think you'd be i was well that was weird because i was always a john person yeah okay you know and uh you know because i grew up with them i was i'm still not that age you know but i you know because they were when i bought those records i was in high

school in the 80s so they was done yeah but Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I definitely knew the Beatles and I had their records. But I was a John person and when I got the opportunity to interview Paul, there was really part of me that was sort of like, oh, man,

but I'm a fucking John guy. You know, when am I going to talk to this other dude? You know, I really thought that, like, oh, Paul, all right i

guess i'll do it yeah yeah it was amazing exactly beetle yeah exactly what was it like singing with him oh it's fun yeah it was fun as hell yeah i was nervous because here's the funny story we were playing um get back yeah there's solo in it right yeah i was like i'm about to go out here at la palooza like 80 000 people out here and i had it in my head that i was gonna be the one playing the solo on the guitar yeah so i practiced it front backwards upside down every way because i was like there's i bet out of this 80 000 people about 20 000 play guitar yeah and if i get up here and bungle this solo they're gonna boo me. So I practiced until my fingers hurt. And I had this solo.

I mean, I couldn't have messed it up. Could have done it any kind of way underwater. And I go up there. And they're like, Brittany Howard is going to sing with me. And I come out. And I'm like, whoa, the stage is lit up. It's got all these disco lights on it. So I'm distracted.

Whoa, this is cool. Get up there and start singing the song. Time for a solo. Crank my guitar up. Go to play. And I hear somebody else's tone playing my solo. I look over. And the guitar player time for a solo. Crank my guitar up, go to play, and I hear somebody else's tone playing my solo. I look over and the guitar player's got the solo. I'm like,

hey man, I got it. Stop. Stop playing that solo. I got it. We just, you know, we just both played it. We just both played it. The dual lead. Yeah, because I went back and down. I had practiced too hard

that's funny did you guys laugh about that did you know it happened I don't even think he noticed oh really yeah yeah yeah that's exciting man

so you guys played at that what was that La Palooza La Palooza yeah La Palooza you played there and the main stage too

that's big right yeah it was really big really big really big deal you know with Alabama Shacks we've done a lot of crazy things a lot of things I never thought I would do That's big, right? Yeah, it's really big. Really big deal. You know, with Alabama Shacks, we've done a lot of crazy things. A lot of things I never thought I would do, such as moving out of the South. Where are you living now?

I live in Taos, New Mexico now. I grew up in New Mexico. No kidding. Where did you grow up? Albuquerque. Yeah, I live in Taos. Wow. What the hell is going on in Taos now?

I don't know. I can't even imagine. I used to ski there when I was a kid. I know there's things going on up there, like people are living around there. My recollection of the town was just a ski town, you know? You know, when you travel as much as I do, and you go to all these cities, all these cities, you want to go somewhere naturally beautiful. Sure. So that's why I found this beautiful house.

It's not an earth ship. It's like this beautiful house. It's not an earthship. It's like an underground house. It's an underground house? Yeah. It's called a berm house. It's just literally just the tops covered with earth. Beautiful house. That's wild.

Beautiful view of the mountain. Yeah. I have elk in my yard daily. That's beautiful. I like to keep it very chill when I'm home. And then when I'm on the road, it's all crazy. Fireworks, all this stuff, you know. No, Taos is beautiful.

And it's just, it's like, it's kind of a hassle to get there, though, isn't it? What, are you flying to Albuquerque and then drive? Yeah, but I'm moving now. You're moving now? I gotta move, dude. I can't be doing this my life, which makes me happy, and at the end of a tour, taking like the whole day just to get back home. So you're getting out of town.

Yeah, that's the idea. Okay. That's the idea. I don't want to, but I'm going to die. I'm going to kill myself doing this stuff. Like going all the way back and then all the way back again for like staying home for two days. But one of them days was just traveling. Right, you stay home for two days and you got to drive two and a half hours to the airport?

To the airport. Three hours? And then make my connections to the place I'm going to. Yeah, that drives rough. Oh, yeah, and forget about it if you're going overseas. It's just crazy. From Albuquerque? Mm-hmm.

Yeah. No, you got to connect three times. Three connections. Yeah. Can't do it. Fascinating stuff. So what's going on with, okay, so you you're touring this record the solo record now yeah uh just finished up a tour last night in oakland how'd that go it was awesome great it

was awesome and you're touring with robert and nate i'm not touring with robert oh i am touring with nate uh-huh um i have an eight-piece band. Uh-huh. Everybody's necessary. I got two guitar players, Brad Allen Williams, Alex Shakur. I got two key players. I got Paul Horton. I got Lloyd Buchanan. I got two singers with me, Sinead Johnson, Corita Lowe. Uh-huh.

And then I got Nate Smith on the drums and Zach Cocker on bass. Zach. Yeah, rhythm section. It's solid now. Yeah, yeah. It's solid now. I love my band. I love what I do more than ever. Thathythm section. Yeah. Rhythm section. It's solid now. It's solid now. I love my band. I love what I do more than ever. That's great. And now where is there, I guess it's a dumb question, but are there any, is there any hard feelings when you do the project outside of the shakes?

Are you just moving on? Are you going to, is that done or you don't think about it like that? I don't really think about it so much like that. I think of it kind of fluidly. Like with me, leaving the shakes is really, really hard because by nature, I don't ever want to hurt anyone. Right. And it was a hard decision choosing myself or choosing my brothers because they are my brothers. Yeah. And I didn't know how to do it in a way that wasn't going to hurt someone. Yeah. And I thought, you know, honesty is the best policy. Right. And so I had to speak on it, how tired and exhausting it was to always be the one working. And I had just determined that I've spent so much of my time working,

I haven't really enjoyed why I work in a long time. And so I had to tell them and we sat down and we talked about it. I mean, we spent half a day just sitting there talking about it and me just trying to tell them that it's not anybody's fault. It's not anything anybody did or it couldn't have been helped. I think it's just the natural way of things. And at first when I was talking to them about leaving the Shakes, I had no intentions of making a record.

I just wanted to go on like a road trip. I just wanted to go live wherever I wanted to live and just have my own life without my decisions affecting anyone else. Yeah. It was very symbiotic being in a band. Yeah. Anything I do, they get asked about.

And anything they do, I get, you know. Yeah. So I think get asked about and anything they do i get you know yeah um so i think at the end of it everyone understood it was really definitely loving did it in the most loving honest way i possibly could and then i went on that road trip and i looked to new places to live and made my own decisions for myself that was a big shift yeah it was a big shift because i'm not the kind of person that's like i'm not a selfish person yeah i usually think of myself last yeah because that's just how that's just you know yeah that's how a lot of women are raised in this country actually yeah so thinking of myself first is very strange and i felt kind of guilty about it yeah because it makes it sound

selfish but it's not selfish it's just being good to yourself. Sure. And also, like you said, you know, this is it. You live once. Yeah. As far as we know. Yeah. And, you know, and you want to keep moving forward and experience new things and have that kind of freedom and, you know, only answer to yourself. It's a great choice to make.

So that's. So here we are. On a road trip, that's where I made a decision. Like, well, what am I going to do? I was yeah i was like shit yeah i'm not good at anything else what were you really thinking about doing other things i mean did you were you gonna start a farm yeah it's gonna be a fly fishing guy oh okay yeah yeah well i mean but was there a moment though where you were sort of like i'm done i can't do music right now? Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Definitely. I was just like, oh, my God, I'm so tired. And I never in my life ever want to do it for the wrong reasons, which is money. I don't want to do it for money because that's when I dilute everything I love. And the reason I live is to do this. So I can't possibly do that so eventually somewhere on a road trip I was like God I guess I have to I guess I'm going to make a record

yeah you're going to reckon with me yeah and that's where it got started that's where it all began and like you said now I'm sitting here before you talking about it well it's a great record and I'm a big fan I find you know what you do very raw and moving and new and

exciting i like it all thank you so much it was great talking to you great talking to you thanks for coming i'm a huge fan of the show by the way oh i appreciate that yeah thanks for doing it yeah of course wow that was cool right talking to Talking to her? It was for me. Did you enjoy listening? The new record, or like, well, get any Alabama Shakes record. And her newest is a solo album called Jamie. And she's nominated for two Grammys. Best Rock Song and Best Rock Performance for History Repeats from Jamie. And that was awesome.

I enjoyed that. Happy Christmas. Happy that was awesome. I enjoyed that. Happy Christmas. Happy Hanukkah. Make sure you don't hurt yourself in the new year. And now I'm going to play some music that I recorded a little earlier and it took me like an hour to land on this groove, which I imagine I've done before.

Monkey! All right, listen. alright listen Thank you. Boomer lives. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th

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