WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1085 - Scott Caan

Episode Date: January 2, 2020

Scott Caan stars in major movies, is on a long running television series, published his own photography, wrote more than 20 plays, and yet he’s still not sure what he wants to do when he grows up. Scott and Marc talk about finding professional fulfillment after a lifetime of personal growth, from being a kid looking for trouble to mellowing with age, letting go of anger, and embracing fatherhood. Scott also tells Marc about his aborted rap career and the evolution of his relationship with his dad. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category,

and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers?

What the fuck, buddies? What the fucking ears? Happy New Year. Happy New Decade. Is that too optimistic? You know, we're in it. Here we go again. We made it another year.

Are things getting better? Some things are definitely not getting better. Other things may be. Some things are definitely not getting better. Other things may be. I personally am in my sixth decade of life on planet Earth, 56 years old, and I don't think I really took into consideration what this transition means. Like for me, New Year's is kind of a – I don't do much on New Year's. I don't go to parties.

I don't work on New Year's. kind of, I don't do much on New Year's. I don't go to parties. I don't work on New Year's. I used to, sometimes I used to go out and do the early spot and get out in and out, maybe go out to dinner. But the last few New Year's, I keep a low profile, watch a movie, take it in. The changing of the year with someone close to me and that's usually been the thing. I don't think I really thought about the fact that we're entering another decade, that it's been a decade and that there were some markers this decade. I mean, this decade was a big decade for me. This was the decade, really, for me. This might be the, not the last decade, but this might be the pinnacle this last decade of the Marc Maron experience, of the Marc Maron trajectory. We might be arcing downward now.

So it was a big decade, but I'll talk about that in a minute. Let's get some stuff out of the way. Today on the show, Scott Kahn is an actor. He's the son of James Kahn. He's on Hawaii Five-0. That's currently in its 10th season. He's on Hawaii Five-O. That's currently in its 10th season. It's on Friday nights on CBS. I ran into him at

Mogador in New York City, and I introduced myself. He knew who I was. I've liked his work in the Oceans movie. He's always very funny with Casey Affleck. I've watched very little Hawaii Five-O. I always liked James Kahn, Tough Jew.

You'll feel the presence of me poking around in Scott Caan's brain and life for tidbits about his old man. But, you know, he also lived. Scott was no slouch. He's been there and back, and it was nice to talk to him, even though I did probably get a little annoying. I tend to do that with the sons or daughters of the people who do the things. It's hard to avoid it, but usually I'm respectful. But I think we got a little something. Anyway, Scott Kahn is here.

My tour dates, if I could, the freezing portion, the freezing leg of the Hey, There's More Tour begins Thursday,uary 30th in cleveland ohio at the agora theater and then we go to uh january 31st in grand rapids michigan at the fountain street church saturday february 1st in milwaukee wisconsin at the turner hall ballroom friday february 14th take a break from the freezing go down to orlando florida at the Hard Rock Live and then on to Tampa on Saturday the 15th of February at the Straz at the Straz Center Thursday February 20th back up to Freezing Portland Maine State Theater Friday February 21st Providence Rhode Island at the Columbus Theater Saturday February 22nd New Haven Connecticut at College Street Music Hall and Sunday, February 23rd, Huntington, New York

at the Paramount. Go to WTFpod.com slash tour for links to all the venues. Can you dig it? All those dates I will be doing with Dean Del Rey. Dean Del Rey and me. So the 10-year marker, the decade marker, the new decade business. It was 10 years in September since the beginning of this podcast, since when I started back in 2009 at the old house, in the old garage. And that's a big deal. The arc of this decade has been a very impactful and life-changing period of time for me. I'm now in a new house, in a new situation. I'm about to move into the garage of this house. It's a nicer garage, obviously, and it's all redone. And I guess everything goes on. Things are certainly different. But I tried to take a look back with a little bit of

gratitude over the last couple of days as we begin this new year with some trepidation, some fear, some hope, also some weariness, the idea of like, you know, like, when can I just ease out? But look, I just hope that you took a bit of time to express, at least to yourself, some gratitude for what you do have and what has gone well and maybe how you can do things differently. As I've said before, it's difficult to live in a world where maybe things are going well for you personally, but things outside of you seem to be spiraling out of control. And I guess it's just, we have to find a balance and figure out what we can do to help out. But I reconnected with

somebody. If you've been with me on this show since the beginning, I had a roommate at my old house. Her name was Stash. Anastasia Stash Kousaki. She used to live with me over at the old house when I started the podcast. She was around, man. And she was there when I got in the bathtub with my jeans. She was there when we were just starting out trying to figure out how to make money, packing envelopes with me, sending swag out to people that donated. It was before GoFundMes and before the, what is it called, Patreon.

We just set up a website. If you like the show, send some money. I'll send you a T-shirt and some stickers, hundreds of fucking envelopes. She was there at the beginning. She lived with me. And the reason I reached out to her is I wanted to tell her that La Fonda had passed because she had a relationship with the cat. The cat used to sleep with her and she loved that cat. And that's how we reconnected. And we had, she came over, I showed her the house and we talked about how our lives had changed. It's

been almost a decade. It was very nice because she was there at the beginning. She's doing fine and I'm doing fine. And it just is. And there wasn't tension. There was one of those, there's one of those situations where I think I met with her a couple of times to apologize for the same thing, which wasn't anything. I just felt that, you know, when she moved out, it was weird.

But, but everything's okay, man. She's got a baby, you know, things change and it was great to see her. And we, it was, it all happened because I reached out out of respect for her relationship with my fucking cat, with, uh, my, my past cat LaFonda. And now I got to deal with Monkey, man. Monkey seems a little out of sorts. I don't know if that's, you know, maybe, I guess they grieve. Why wouldn't they? But like I sit down, he climbs up to me.

He's literally like a baby. He'll climb onto my chest and just tuck into my shoulder every time. And he's sleeping a lot. I think he's sad. It took a week or two for him to, I guess, register that his sister was gone. But maybe that's it. Is that it?

I don't know. Look, Scott Kahn is here. And he's on Hawaii Five-0. That show must have a lot of fans. It's been on a long time. It's the 10th season. It's on Friday nights on CBS. We talk about a lot of stuff. And it was nice to meet him. And here we are, me and Scott, talking. If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need.

That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. mind your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series, streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required, T's and C's apply. Have you done any voiceover work where you've had to wear the cans and talk into a mic, Scott? I've auditioned for things that they didn't hire me for, but so yeah.

No cartoon voices for you? No, I like it. Sounds like a good gig. Yeah, pull that thing in. So like, you know, you can put it right up on my mouth. Yeah. Yeah, no, I got, like I said, I got a 13-year-old dog that's been my best friend, and she's got this thing called degenerative myelopathy. What is that?

It's basically the spinal disease where her back legs shut down and they stop working. But I'm not going to do too much, you know. When she, you know, I live in a, I got a lot of steps. Yeah. So she can't really make it up and down the steps now. So when she can't get up, I'm going to just, I'm going to end it because, you know, her whole thing, I'm already leaving her. I usually take her with me everywhere.

Right. Now I'm already leaving her at her home and she looks at me like, you know, I go with you. Yeah. What do you mean you got a lot of steps? Do you live in New York? No, no, no. No, I live in Laurel Canyon.

I mean, not, you know, I'm not a fifth floor walk up, but yeah, there's like 40 something steps to get up there. Oh, man. So what do you, do you have a plan? Yeah, I'm just going to not push it further than it needs to be pushed, you know? But you're going to put her down? Yeah. They got people that come over and do it, man.

Yeah. I mean, I'll do it, you know, I'll sit there with her and do it, but you know. Have someone come over. Yeah, have someone come over. You're not going to take her to the vet. No, no, no, no. Have someone come over. Have you had a deal with this before?

I mean, like I was telling you before we started, I'm kind of okay with death. What does that mean? Are you really or you just think you are? A combination of both. I think part of me, there's like a party that can be cold to it because you've experienced a lot of it and then there's another part of it that's like you know we you know we're all eventually going to wrestle with god at some point and we never win that one right you know so it's it's uh you know life's a tragedy right we're all going to die i know yeah it doesn't it doesn't end well for anybody no no if you wrote this in a movie you know like this is the story

and then you die at the end. It's always tragic. It's the one thing we know for sure. Yeah. And look, if it were me, I know what I like to do. And if I get to a point, we're all going to be at that place, and we either get to be courageous or not. We either get to go, all right, there's more for me to do that I look forward to. Right.

If not, let's be done and see what's next. Or if there's nothing next, then let's be done. So I get it. I mean, I try to reconcile that shit. I mean, I'm 56 and I think about it more than I used to. I'm trying to be okay with it because on some level, it's the one thing we all know for sure that we're going to die. So on a practical level,

it should be the one thing that we're all relatively comfortable with, but it's actually the one thing we're all terrified of more than anything. And by the way, I'm not trying to be a tough guy. I'm scared of, I don't want to die. I like my life. Right. It's funny, when I was younger, I was reckless because I didn't care. Yeah.

And I didn't care about what would happen to me. Yeah. Now that I really like life. Right. Of course. Now I'm like, well, wait a minute. Now I dig it. I want this to go on for a long time now.

Things have turned around. But I just, I feel like if I get to a point where I can't do the things that I like to do, like with my dog, I can see that she doesn't want, she's not happy. She's not herself anymore. Then I'm going to go, what are we doing anymore? So you're going to have someone put you down? Is that? No, but I'm not going to, you know.

Yeah, I don't know what it is. I don't know what I'm going to do. I still got a minute, man. I just want it to happen quick. Yeah, me too. know what it is. I don't know what I'm going to do. I still got a minute, man. I just want it to happen quick. Yeah, me too. That's another thing. Look, I don't want to do eight years of slowly losing my brain and getting goofy. I'd like to go to the gym at 92 in the morning and get hit by a bus later in the afternoon.

That's perfect. Yeah, 92. That's the age. Yeah, that's good. I'll take it. How are your genes? You good? I think I'm pretty good. Yeah? Yeah. Well, I mean, now, are you friends with your dad? Yeah. Yeah, that's good. I'll take it, you know. How are your genes? You good? I think I'm pretty good.

Yeah? Yeah. Well, I mean, now, are you friends with your dad? Yeah. Oh, that's good. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

It's because, like, it must be an odd thing because he's, like, one of these kind of, like, stocky alpha Jews from the 70s. One of the three, I guess, right? Right? In acting world or in the world in general? You know, it's funny. i only knew tough jews growing up there's plenty of tough jews yeah yeah so what you mean like your family no yeah my family and you know people that i knew and um but uh people i knew growing up yeah but um but yes in the acting world there's like him and who else? The tough Jews? Yeah. Well, now you got Bernthal.

Oh, John Bernthal. Yeah. He's a half Jew or full Jew? I think he might be full Jew. I can't remember. I talked to him. Genuine tough kid. Yeah, for sure.

Genuine tough kid. Yeah, yeah. Shia LaBeouf is half a Jew. He's a half a Jew. Genuine tough kid. He is, yeah. I mean, by the way, I know John. Yeah.

And I actually used to box. He boxed and I boxed with some people that he boxed. Yeah. And I actually used to box. He boxed, and I boxed with some people that he boxed. Yeah. So I've heard stories about him being genuinely tough. And I don't know Shia, but I've heard stories that he's a tough kid, too. It seems like it. Yeah. I mean, I'm not.

I think I'm more of an alpha pussy, really. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not that tough. But I mean, so you grew up in Hollywood. I did. And the whole time. But how did it work out?

Like how many siblings, how many kids does your dad have? Like how did that all break down? He's got a lot of them, a lot of different wives. Yeah. I got a sister that I met when I was 12. That you met when you were 12? Uh-huh. How the fuck does that happen?

Did you not know about her? I knew about her, but it was just something we didn't really talk about. I walked into the house. I was 12 years old. That was the first wife yes yes his first wife well there's also one that suspect that i think was annulled quickly so i don't know if they count that one but that might have been before that or after i don't know anyway right right yeah i walked into the house i was 12 years old and she um my dad said hey this is your sister meet your sister and she looked at me and the first thing she did was she said, he's stoned.

Did you? Yeah. I was 12. And were you? Yeah. Yeah. Super suited. Did that get you into trouble?

He looked at me, and he said, have you been smoking weed? And I said, no, I swear to God. But that's how our relationship started with my sister. And then she picked me up from school the next day and brought her eighth of weed and dropped it on my lap and asked me if I knew how to roll a joint. I said, yeah. Ah, Hollywood. So, so then,

so you're the middle, so then. Is that bad to say? No, no. So you're second, so you're the second wife? I'm not the wife. I'm the son of the second wife.

Second wife, right? Yeah. And then he's got another one. Another three. Oh my God. Another three. Yeah. I got a,

I got a 28 year old brother. I got a 23 year old brother and I got a i got a 28 year old brother i got a 23 year old brother and i got a night or a 20 year old brother and the 20 and the 23 are from the same wife so he's stuck with that one uh-huh how old is he he'll be 80 next year and is he working he's uh he's actually right now um he's he he's he's obsessed with fixing himself. You know, he's been a maniac most of his life. He rodeoed. He raced boats. He rode motorcycles.

He did everything you're not supposed to do to your body. So he's just done another back surgery, but a pretty heavy one. So he's recovering from that. But it's a slow, tough one. So he's kind of working through that. You go over there? Yeah yeah yeah now so when you're growing up like who like what's the scene i mean because like i've talked to a couple of hollywood you know people that you know is that i'm the hollywood people category well you grew up here it's not it's not a matter of

hollywood people like i've talked to people whose parents were in the business and they're in the business like ed bagley jr you know for example that you know it's just a very specific it's not it's not a judgment thing it's a specific type of lifestyle right and you know throughout the the duration of this show you know if there's anything that starts to reveal itself is that you know this is a community like any other community of working people they just happen to be movie stars and completely some of them are out of their minds and spend too much money. Right, right. But like growing up, what was the house like?

Who were the people that were around? Who were your peers in that world? Or your dads? I mean, he was kind of the anti-Hollywood dude. You know what I mean? He sort of didn't speak highly of that world. He said, if you ever turn out to be one of these Hollywood kids, I'm going to give you a beating.

I got that talk every day. Really? Oh, yeah. And who was he? Like who? What was the example? I mean, I don't know. There was no example.

Just a spoiled Hollywood brat? Yeah, don't be a brat or I'll kill you, basically. You know, my dad's, you know, he's played tough guys, but he's genuinely a tough guy. He is. You know, one of the toughest guys I've ever met. I just remember reading that his father was a butcher. Yeah. Yeah.

And I mean, this guy was, my grandfather's hands were like, one finger was like two of your thumbs. Did you know the guy? Yeah, I knew him. He passed when I was, I think, seven or eight years old. But I mean, he could lift people out of cars at 70 years old. He could bend quarters with his hands. Come on.

I'm not kidding. He ripped phone books in half. I mean, he was like weirdly strong and scary. These are things he'd show you he could do? Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah but so anyway entertaining the hollywood thing yeah you know he anything but this business and anything but being like one of these hollywood people was sort of his his his trip so is he mad at you now no because i think he respects what i do a little bit yeah Yeah. You know, he's, I mean, I don't want to say proud, but I think he, you know, he.

It's so weird to hear, though, isn't it? Because, like, he was like, you know, he was doing it a long time. Yeah. I mean, like, he was in Westerns. What was he in that movie with Dean Martin? I mean, Christ, he was like. Yeah, El Dorado with John Wayne. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's wild. I mean, at some point he must have loved show business. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know point he must have loved show business. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, you find something you're good at and they tell you you're going to give you money to do it. Yeah. Why not?

And you like it a little bit. Yeah. You keep doing it. Yeah. And none of the siblings, none of the other people went into show business? No, they're all creative dudes. The boys are all creative. My sister, not so much.

I mean, she might be creative, but she didn't really go into that at all. But yeah, they're all creative kids. Yeah yeah one way or the other and then are they working in the industry a little bit my the second brother he's um he's part of a theater group and he works in the theater and you know i mean as you know it's not it's not uh you don't you don't just get to go raise your hand and go okay here's here's a job you know i know yeah of course yeah yeah i mean but i just was wondering what their aspiration is. There's no butchers or dentists. There's no butchers or dentists.

Definitely, definitely not dentists. You know? That's not going to happen. No, no. I remember my little brother, I went over to the house when he was like 12 years old or something and he was doing homework. Yeah.

My dad ended up just taking the homework and doing it and his wife started screaming at him, you got to let him do his own homework. And he goes, he's not going to be a rocket scientist, okay? Don't worry. Like, he knows what these kids' fate is. He's decided already. Yeah.

So, but you didn't start out when you were growing up. You weren't always into acting though, right? No. I mean, at first I was into anything but having to go to school, you know? Yeah. I didn't like school, which is another thing. I don't think school is for everybody. Yeah, that's probably true.

Right? I mean, it shouldn't. Where were you going, though? Like, what was it? Were you in Hollywood? Hollywood High or what? I went to Beverly Hills High School. Yeah.

Yeah. I made it to, you know, the end of 10th grade. That was it? Yeah. That's it. What happened? I got a record deal, And then I went on tour For the beginning of my 11th grade year

I was on tour for about 9 weeks And at the time, I don't know if you remember Cypress Hill and House of Pain I was on tour with those guys And I got off that tour And then they said, are you going to go back to high school now? And I said, I don't think so You were performing?

Yes, I was You were a rap guy? I was a rap guy, man. And you were a successful rap guy? I mean, I kind of knew it, but I didn't go get the record or anything. You can't get the record. It doesn't exist, I don't think. Really?

Yeah. So you were like the white rap guy? Yeah, sure. Sure. Did you have a partner? I did. His name is Alan Mamani. He goes by the alchemist

he's a big he's probably one of the most respected hip-hop producers in the in hip-hop today oh really yeah he's still stuck with it yeah so like so okay again i was just sort of looking for a way to be different and creative and be not have to do what everybody else was doing you know rap music in the early 90s was not what it is today. It was sort of like the punk music of my generation. Yeah. It wasn't mainstream. It was anti-establishment.

Right, sure. Being a B-boy and being about graffiti and being about breakdancing and MCing and DJing. Yeah. That kind of thing was, you know, now you got seven-year-old girls who live in fancy neighborhoods. Hip-hop is their thing.

Sure. And your mothers are pumping hip-hop is their thing. Sure. Your mothers are pumping hip-hop. That wasn't. No, it wasn't the same then? Yeah, no. What's going on at home when you just want to drop out of high school and the old man's like, all right. Well, I wasn't really close to the old man then.

Oh, really? I was kind of. He got remarried and he was doing that life. Yeah, yeah. I was with my mom at the time. Were you pissed off? No, no. it just wasn't part of your life no yeah i mean i just you know yeah i mean he's always part of my life yeah it's never like uh fuck you dad no no you don't say fuck you to my dad no uh-uh. It doesn't happen. Not today. I know, yeah, uh-uh. So the rebellion was out.

Yeah, well, it didn't have to be. You know, I don't know. We were always friends more than, I just respected him, and we had a good friendship. What about your mom when you said you wanted to drop out of high school and go do hip-hop? She was, yeah. Living? No, not at all, man. was yeah she um my mom my mom she's not she's she's passed a few years ago or six six seven years ago now but she was um a pretty interesting lady who was not uh not

normal by any means i mean i was you know 12 years old i got kicked out of school and she walked into the principal's office and told him to go fuck himself you know what i mean yeah she was a different kind of lady what did she was an actress too she was a she was actually a pretty good actress yeah she was a an actor and a model and uh she was a hairstylist as well oh yeah yeah it's just a free spirit kind of person yeah she was a she was i mean i don't know how to say i mean she was a bad bitch like yeah yeah she was a badass you know what i mean she um she didn't really take a ton of shit she was pretty cold like yeah and um you know i said i'm you know i think i'm good at this thing and she was like well do it don't do that other thing you're not good at you know fuck it

yeah fuck it so all right how does the rap career stop? So we went to, we got signed to this label in Europe. And so we went to go do this show in London. I think it was called Top of the Pops or some goofy shit. I don't know what it was called. But we went there. Look, I was 16 years old. We went there. And when we got there,

they had done a remix to our song, and our album was about to come out in the States. And when we got there, they said, this is the remix, and this is what you're going to perform on the show. And it was some goofy house mix of our song, which we hated. It wasn't even your mix? House music at the time was big in London, and this is how they wanted to pump our record in london yeah yeah so we uh the night before the uh we were getting

per diem every day so we decided we got to keep getting the per diem while we're here yeah so we collected all the per diem yeah and then on uh the the morning we were supposed to you know leave and do the rehearsals and do the show we took took a flight to Amsterdam, never told anybody. The label dropped us, and then they called our label back in the States, which was Tommy Boy Records at the time, and I think that that pissed them off too, so then they ended up dropping us and not releasing the record. That's my story.

I mean, maybe it's because they found out that the record, they didn't like it as much, but it's a much better story that they dropped us because we did something. You ran off with the per diem,ed on the tv which we did do yeah yeah amsterdam was fun right that's very fun at 17 years old amsterdam staying in youth hostels for two weeks was uh and you just bailed on the tv show bailed i didn't even say anything now eddie so you have do you have the record don't you i have most of the songs that we did, yeah. Yeah? Yeah. That's kind of disappointing.

You have to put your fucking record out. Yeah. But then, you know, look, I found something else that I like to do creatively. What, the acting? Yeah, yeah, yeah, the acting. When did you first start doing that? We were actually doing a show at the Santa Monica Civic Center, and there was a director.

What was your rap name? Skills. Okay. Just Skills? Yeah. Skills and the Alchemist? No, he was actually called Mudfoot at the time. Skills and Mudfoot?

Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. I can't tell if you're looking at me like you're kind of making fun of me. No, no, what do you mean? Well, I mean, as much as you are. Making fun of myself? Yeah.

Yeah, okay. Your ego when you're 16 is amazing. You know what I mean? No, no, I know. I mean, I'm not making fun of myself? Yeah. Yeah, okay. Your ego when you're 16 is amazing. No, no, I know. I'm not making fun of you. You can make fun of me. No, it's nice. I think you can get a little laugh out of it. Yeah, why not?

I hope everybody's laughing their ass off. Shit. So you're doing a show on CNN? Anyway, do you edit this or do we just talk? Just talk. Don't be self-conscious. No, I'm not. I mean, the older I get, the more self-conscious I get.

Really? Is that happening? I think so. I think I get more, you know, when you're younger, you want to be kind of- Swagger. Yeah, but then you realize that that's all bullshit and then you get, and especially today, you say the wrong, you put foot in your mouth. Today, everybody knows about it.

Everybody hates you. We haven't done anything. We haven't done anything hateable. Okay, good. Yeah. Well, you'll stop me if I do. No, you'll probably let me. No, no, no.

But I can appreciate that. It is kind of weird where, you know, when you have the sort of life lessons, especially if you've been an asshole or you've been arrogant or you've you know yeah left some wreckage you know you get to a point in your life where you're like yes what was i doing yeah that and also you it today like i said yeah you say the wrong thing and everybody's mad well i think somebody knows about it i think more if you do the wrong thing that's worse that too you know saying the wrong thing it's not like you're going to drop the N word or something right now.

No, no, no. Yeah. But I know you. I don't know what's appropriate or what's not appropriate anymore. No? Not really. Not really. Anybody ever tell you you remind me of Giovanni Ribisi?

Have you ever gotten there? No. No? But I don't know him. I've interviewed him. Yeah? Yeah. Very good guy.

Yeah, he's a good guy. Intense guy. Good actor. Very, very good him. I've interviewed him. Yeah? Yeah. Very good guy. Yeah, he's a good guy. Intense guy. Good actor. Very, very good actor. You known him a long time? I did. I've done a couple movies with him. Which ones? I did Boiler Room with him. Oh, yeah. I did Gone in 60 Seconds with him. Oh. And I directed a movie that he was in called The Dog Problem. The Dog Problem. I saw that credit. How many have you directed you directed uh two two and a half two and a half movies you've directed you're in the middle of one now no no no i i wrote a movie called mercy that my good friend patrick uh directed but we sort of wrote and directed it together i mean he's the director i'm the writer but we got it we worked on it too he directed i shouldn't say that let's let's come around to that so you're in santa monica oh skips in santa monica you're doing the gig long story short yeah this director who was

making this movie called the boy called hate it was about this young hoodlum who yeah steals a motorcycle and kills people and he he came to my show and got in touch with me somehow and said would you come audition for this and i said no and then when i read it i thought well this is cool i'd like to ride a motorcycle and yeah yeah and then um did you ride at the time did I ride motorcycles yeah yeah yeah I've been riding motorcycles my whole life um I don't anymore I have a five-year-old daughter and my my my gal said when the when she got pregnant we never ride a motorcycle ever again and I said fine so I haven't ridden a motorcycle in five years because she didn't want you to die on the motorcycle that was I think that's where she was going.

And it's good because he... You honored that. That's nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I honored it. I still have a bike but it just sits there. And it's not calling you?

It does sometimes but it's not worth it. I've been hit a couple times. Yeah, it's fucking scary. My buddy Dean, like he got someone, a car just ran him off the road and he went down on the highway and fucking, like,

got skinned up pretty good, but he... That's lucky. I mean, skinned up pretty good as you made it. Yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah. It's crazy. And he didn't ride for a while, but he couldn't stay away.

Right. I don't think he's got a bike now, but he was a lifelong bike guy. I think I just liked looking cool anyway, so I'm fine with it being gone. I think, I never rode him because my dad was an orthopedic surgeon and he dragged me

to the hospital when I was in high school and showed me a guy with a truck and I got this sort of scared straight shit. Right, right.

I could have used your dad. Yeah, yeah. I've had a lot of orthopedic surgeons in my life. He would have taken you to the hospital.

What did he do? Knees, elbows? Sure, he was a knee guy. He did knees, backs, hips. I would take you to the hospital. What did he do? Knees, elbows? Sure. He was a knee guy. He did knees, backs, hips. I mean, he was full on. His partner did hands, but he could set most bones. Okay. Did some sports medicine as well.

All right. Yeah. Real deal. I got some. Yeah. I've had a bunch of surgeries. Oh, yeah? Yeah.

From what? From all different stupid stuff. ACLs, torn biceps, broken collarbones. From like falling off shit? Wrecking cars? No, I've done a lot of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu for 20 years. Do you fight? On the street?

Yeah. I'd like not to. Yeah. But have you? When I was a kid all the time, yeah. Oh really? You got into fights all the time? Yeah, yeah.

But not as an adult. I think I've been in two fights and that's in 20 years, right? Yeah. Yeah. Because it's not my impulse to fight. I'm more of a negotiator. Yeah, I get it. Yeah.

You're smart. I guess. Yeah. But some guys just don't even think twice. Well, I mean, you know, when you're younger, it's like proven stuff. But no, I hope I never, I don't want to get into a fight. I feel like I should have been in one fight. Well, you can, I mean, when we're done with this, we'll go downstairs.

Yeah, but I think that I don't have a chance there. Everybody's got a chance. Is that true? Yeah. Is that what you learned? Yeah, absolutely. You hit somebody square in the jaw and they go to sleep. That's it.

That's it? Yeah. So you could get one through. Yeah, absolutely. Are you provoking me right now? Absolutely not. I don't want to fight you at all. So you do this movie, A Boy Called Hate.

Yeah, so anyway, when I did it, I sort of realized that this is a boy called hate yeah so anyway I just when I did it I sort of realized that this is a good world for me I didn't know if I wanted to write, direct

move the lights bring the food but whatever these group of weirdos was I was into this trip and that was the first time you'd been on a set like that I mean

I guess you know my dad didn't work a ton when I was growing up he took a lot of time off for whatever reason but I didn't work a ton when I was growing up. He took a lot of time off for whatever reason, but I didn't really view it when I was a kid as something to do. It was just like, okay, this is my old man's job.

But when I was there, a part of it, I thought like, okay, this is my group of people. Oh, yeah. Because there's so many different kinds of people in one place doing different shit. But it's all this creative energy going towards this one thing. Yeah. It sounds pretentious, but. No, it's true. It's not pretentious.

I mean, it's a business, and, you know, when you get on a set. If you say something's pretentious, then it takes away that it's pretentious, right? Well, no, I think that, like, it's weird when there's a thing that we do when you're involved in show business where, you know, you sort of, especially if you, you've got more of a kind of a street smart, rugged sensibility where you kind of trivialize it, but it's like, it's a fucking real business and people work hard and there's all kinds of, you know, people involved in one thing.

Yeah. Working towards this one thing. It's kind of amazing. You get on a set and you're like, there's like a hundred people that I don't know what they're fucking doing, but they're doing real jobs. Right. You know, like down to the fucking person fucking doing, but they're doing real jobs. Right. You know, like down to the fucking person

that's figuring out how to hide your mic. Yeah. So when you get that bug, do you take acting class? I did. I went to this place called Playhouse West. Oh, yeah. Theater company, Jeff Goldblum and Robert Carnegie. That's their place?

Yeah, but it was a really cool place because it was a part of it was an acting school but then the other part becomes this theater company so after a couple years after you learn how to

you know act whatever the hell that means yeah then you know you get a craft of acting down then there's the next level of it

which is like you become part of the theater group and now you're putting up plays all the time and people are working on plays, writing plays, acting, directing in plays. So you have access to these three theaters.

Right. And on and off for the last 20 years, I've been going back there, putting up plays. So it's this great little thing to be a part of. Anyway, that's what I did. And Goldblum is like one of the guys who created the place? He started, or he's him and Robert Carnegie.

Robert Carnegie, I don't know that guy. He's one of, he's like he started or he's him and robert carnegie robert carnegie's i don't know that guy he's one of he was like a sandy meisner protege oh really yeah and um and um and do they both teach at the place i don't yeah robert still teaches there um but i don't believe jeff does anymore did he used to a lot yeah and did you take with jeff no with robert but i worked with jeff a bunch yeah you know over the years he's interesting actor he's one of my favorites yeah he seems to be the real deal what makes him your favorite like what is it about the way he does it just the way that he working right yeah but it's he's he's I've never met anybody who's more I mean in life and when he

acts who's more attuned with what's going on with the other person he's I mean in life and when he acts who's more attuned with what's going on with the other person he couldn't be more in the moment and there's something like really interesting and human about that it's like he's interested in everything and he's interested and that's

to me the best actors are the ones who pay the closest attention so that's why he's compulsive about it he's's studying you i always you know yeah and that's you know that's to me acting is you can plan all the stuff you're going to do or you can just pay attention to what the other guy's doing or the other people are doing and that's what makes people more interesting if they're interesting to begin with and he's very interesting yeah and he's like you know he's been around forever too like doing little parts and little things he's very good man he's a sweet guy too yeah he's he's an acting lesson just yeah because like when he's when you're talking to him he's like oh really yeah and he's he's

almost like trying to get into your body right he wants to work off of it yeah yeah yeah so and the other guy was mostly meisner ish stuff? Well, yeah, he studied with Sandy Meisner, so yeah. Repetitions and things? And did you find that helpful? I mean, I still, yeah, I did. What was it, scene studies, and you'd get cast in productions at the place and that kind of stuff?

The productions ended up pretty much being what the students did. The students would write, and then you'd also, back in the day, I can't believe I just said that, but at that and then you'd also you know back in the day back in the day I can't believe I just said that but at that time you'd go get rights

you're gonna say it more as time goes on am I? alright you'd get rights to do you'd call Sam French and get the rights to do a play that Dramatist produced

or that Sam French produced so it was that combination of you know people writing you know people directors would come to the school

and they would end up directing plays and writers would end up directing plays. Yeah. And writers would study acting. I mean, I think every good director or writer should study acting a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Because I think the first time I saw you and, like, noticed you, I think, was in that, it was the one with Jennifer Aniston. Ah.

Where you play the trainer. Yeah. But it was great, though. Thank you. I remember because I didn't know who you were. And I'm like, who's that guy? Right, right. And then when I found out you were him, I'm like, oh, yeah, that makes sense.

What makes sense? Well, because if I look at you, you kind of remind me of your old man, right? Is that all right to say? I mean, I'm not. He's a handsome guy. Yeah, for sure. But so there was that moment where I'm like, oh, that's that guy's. It made sense to me.

That's all. But I thought he was a douchebag. But I thought he had a full life inside of I thought it was you know he had a full full life inside sure from that guy thank you I'll take it

and then like when I start to notice you in the when I mean all the Oceans movies you don't have to notice me I mean you no no

but I think like but why would I talk to you if I wasn't interested yeah good point but the stuff that you and Casey do in the Oceans movie is very funny to me

thank you it's a funny dynamic it's like a comedy team thanks I mean you guys have a thing But the stuff that you and Casey do in the Oceans movie is very funny to me. Thank you. It's a funny dynamic. It's like a comedy team. I mean, you guys have a thing that kind of built over the three movies where you kind of got to stick together. Yeah. All you got to do with Casey is just pay attention to him. And he's so interesting. Really?

Yeah, I think so. So I just sort of showed up and just paid attention to Casey. And reacted to him? Yeah, basically. That's it. That's it. No homework. No homework. Just pay attention to Casey. Yeah, and reacted to him? Yeah, basically. That's it. That's it. No homework. No homework.

Just pay attention to Casey, yeah. So as this goes on, do you find that you're challenging yourself as an actor? No, absolutely not. I mean, I've been, you know. I mean, you've made a lot of movies. Yeah, but it's been a minute, and I've been on a procedural show for 10 years.

That's a long time, dude. Yeah, and it's great. Listen, no complaints, man. I mean, I'm lucky to have a... How long are you in Hawaii every year? About six days of every month. Is that how it goes? Yeah, I just go and I'll do a couple episodes

and then I don't do all of the episodes anymore. Okay. And then I come home. So they shoot a lot of it in just exteriors in Hawaii? No, all of it's in Hawaii. Oh, it is. Like I said, though, I'm just not in all of them. Yeah.

You were in all of them, no? In the beginning, yeah. For how many years? Two or three years. Yeah. Yeah. So that's great. So you're making money in your sleep now.

Yeah. Yeah, it's good. But to answer your question am i doing things that i'm really right you know excited about or what did you ask what was the exact challenging your challenge no for sure no well do you want to of course yeah yeah i mean i think that's because i know like i got the it's a weird thing man i mean you're in the like how often you know i'm at the beginning though in a way yeah but you seem like you're always in good stuff and you seem like you're in stuff that you're, uh, should be excited about that.

Uh, well, yeah, well, it's different for me. Like, you know, I didn't like now, like my opportunity started to happen when I was in my forties. So I have a sort of a type, you know, and I've, and I've done a few movies, you know, not many. And, uh, and yeah, I can say no. But I don't see you. I haven't seen you do a ton of stuff.

And again, this is a weird thing to say, but I don't see you doing stuff for the paycheck. No, I don't. I never set out to do that with acting. Right. It was never an option. Do you do anything just for a paycheck? No, not if it doesn't. That's a pretty amazing.

a paycheck no i not if it doesn't like i'll tell you like that's a pretty amazing the closest i get to that really is like uh like i'm gonna go out my i have a comedy special dropping in march and i've got this hour that took me a couple years to put together and you know once the comedy special is on it's sort of dead in the water right so like i just added like six or seven dates to go make a little money because i can and you know but it's me doing comedy but it's something that you've dug deep for and busted your ass all my shit yeah that's what i mean so anyway that's a that's a that's a right i never had to do acting because i needed money yeah which is a different game it is yes because you got to make compromises yeah now did you find that you were being typecast? You mean as a result of why I ended up doing-

Well, no, just I mean like, you know, do you play the same guy a lot? I think I, I don't know. I don't know. Maybe when I was younger a little bit. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But Dano's not like a, you know, he's not like a thuggy kind of jockey dude. No.

No, I guess not. But I guess I, am I a jockey dude i don't know are you i don't know you tell me i'll take it you typecast me i just i just met you yeah i know you do the the brazilian whatever brazilian jiu-jitsu yeah yeah you know you like it man you should try it i know i should try something you oh you don't you're not into any kind of i run up the hill that's great man i do exercise and I work out and stuff but the competitive thing you know I don't want to

you know be crying on a mat nobody's going to make you cry but I think you know you gotta you gotta get out there and I'm not I know I'm competitive

but I don't I don't like losing yeah I don't like losing you know but you know how to deal with it because you know you've probably played a lot of shit

yeah I guess everything losing I take it personally you know how to deal with it because you've probably played a lot of shit. Yeah, I guess everything losing is a- I take it personally. Yeah, yeah, I get it. But you've got to do it. I know. You've got to do all that stuff, right? So what are you thinking? Do you just do?

That's what I've got to do? I don't know what you've got to do. I'm 56. What do you do at 56 to get in the game? What game? You want to- I don't know. I can't start playing basketball.

I don't know how to play basketball. I don't know. I'm just saying stuff that's difficult and hard. It's like we got to do. You got to push yourself. Everything, if you just sit around. No, no. I push myself up the hill.

I'm going to start running up there. It's good enough. And I run down. It's a big hill. It's 45. Everyone's different, man. If I didn't have exercise and jujitsu, I'd probably have to take antidepressants or something. No, I'm the same way now.

If I go 45 minutes up, it's straight up, and then I run down. It's like an hour and a half. And I hadn't done it in a couple weeks. I did it today, and it was great. Yeah, I mean, look, you can't have a panic attack while exercising. No. That should tell you something. Just a heart attack.

That's true. That you mistake for a panic attack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is just a panic attack. And then you drop. And then you die. Yeah, that's fine. But that's better. Yeah, if I drop on the hill, that's good. If it happens attack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is just a panic attack. And then you drop. And then you die. Yeah, that's fine. But that's better.

Yeah, if I drop on the hill, that's good. Yeah. If it happens quickly. Yeah. But I got the big book of photographs and it's a beautiful book.

Thank you, man. So you're doing that kind of stuff. But also you mentioned like writing and directing. Now when you do, like, so you write plays? I do.

I've written a lot of plays. Like full length kind of? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow, man. I was going to bring you some but then i thought that that would be silly no i mean i i if i would have had time to read them but it would have just been me like giving giving me french samuel french book yeah and saying here let's talk about this so when did you start writing the plays uh right about uh i don't know 98 97 98

because we we were having trouble getting the rights to do the plays that we wanted to do at the work at Playhouse yeah so I would go home and write scenes

and then I would bring the scenes in for different actors and then we'd work on them and then Robert Carnegie was there and he would say keep doing this don't stop doing this

and then scenes turned into one act turned into full length plays and then I just I just that's where it started and then I just really got into writing plays.

And now, do they get produced? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've had a lot of produced plays. Okay. I mean, that's how they get published. You've got to get them produced and then reviewed and then... So what was the first big play? Have you had big openings, like in New York and stuff?

I'm sorry, I don't know the plays. No, you don't have to know this. I wish I'd know the plays. No, don't worry. I could have brought them for you. Well, I mean, I could get them, yeah. I'm sorry I don't know the place. No, you don't have to know this. I wish I'd know the place. No, don't worry. I could have brought them for you. I could get them, yeah. I could have read them

earlier. But you know, when you're younger, you ever notice you talk to young people and they want to tell you about all the stuff that they're doing?

The older I get, the less I want to push what I'm doing. I can't stand it. I don't even want to be on social networking platforms anymore. I'm not.

How's that feel? I mean, I don't know the difference, so it feels fine. You never were on there. No. I don't even want to be on social networking platforms anymore. I'm not. How's that feel? I mean, I don't know the difference, so it feels fine. You never wear on there. No. I mean, I'll creep out on Instagram to look at stuff that I'm into sometimes, but under a fake account. Oh, yeah? I don't have... I'm not posting pictures of my child and my new shoes or whatever.

I'll do my shoes. I've done my shoes. That's all right. And the cats I've done. But listen, man. I'm not knocking it No I know But it's like draining

It's like a whole other job It's work Man how I mean how many Every day I go Wait the day's over You wanted me to also post things And worry about how people respond to it

That's another thing man I don't want to I don't want to do the wrong thing I don't want people As much as I don't give a shit What people think I don't want to be hated either You know what I mean

You're nervous about that Yeah or someone makes a comment And then I'm like Getting into a beef with somebody Over the thing Oh that'll happen Yeah I can't You to be hated either. You know what I mean? You're nervous about that. Yeah, or someone makes a comment and then I'm like getting into a beef with somebody over the thing. Oh, that'll happen. Yeah, I can't. You avoided it.

Good for you. Mental hygiene is probably better. And maybe I'm just at the, you know, I guess if you're young, creative today, you have to be a part of that. That's what they tell you. Right. I mean, it's a very competitive game.

You know what I mean? The branding machine. Yeah. Maybe it's true. I don't know, but I see a lot of people. It's just like, you know, these people are going machine yeah maybe it's true i don't know but i see a lot of people it's just like you know these people are going four five ten times a day and you know what else are they doing i look at it i'm like what's the matter with you yeah but then what am i looking at it for yeah right well because it's interesting to look at sometimes i don't know so the plays because i'm curious about plays actually because theater because i'm

i become friends with tracy letts uh who's who's a great playwright yeah and the whole process of writing plays especially when they're a little abstract is sort of interesting to me so how did you learn to do it just by reading them and just like by you know at the like i said at the playhouse we worked on you know we at the school you weren't really supposed to grab stuff from movies we were all you know going after yeah good plays right because it's you know working on the stage and that's who were your favorites um shanley um david rabe oh yeah rave's good though yeah rave's great shanley what about shanley i don't know shanley he's one of my favorite writers ever what was his

big plays um American Reconciliation Danny in the Deep Blue Sea uh The Dreamer Examines His Pillow yeah someone just mentioned this guy to me today or yesterday Women of Manhattan um he wrote Doubt he wrote Jovers of the Volcano oh yeah he wrote um uh Moonstruck I feel like stupid about theater. Why? Why? Why? Because I know that I enjoy theater if it's good theater and I don't go to it enough and I don't seek it out. Right. But when I do, I find it very moving and unlike anything else. Yeah.

And I'm always sort of fascinated with it because I don't know how they evolve. Plays can be very unusual to me. Sure. But as an actor, I think that that's the experience as an actor. Yeah. That's the one you kind of are going for. The play? Yeah, because you get to kind of live it from the beginning to the end,

and that's the thing. And some of it gets weird. It can get weird, yeah. Do you write weird plays? I don't know if they're weird. Yeah? No, mostly about relationships. Like what's your first big play?

The first play I ever wrote that got published was called Two Wrongs. Yeah. And it's about a man and a woman that both see the same therapist. And then the therapist tries to set them up, which is nothing, something a therapist shouldn't do. Right. They actually fall in love. And then the therapist actually falls in love with the woman as well. Yeah.

And so then the therapist breaks them up and then it explodes in his face. Yeah. Because he falls in love with her. So then he tries to pull them apart. And it's just the idea was to be, I'm into therapists and therapy. I think that therapists are interesting people. And I always wondered, like, do they have lives too? You know, do therapists have feelings or, you know what I mean?

Of course they do. Of course they do, right. But as someone who goes to therapy, you just imagine that they're perfect right because they have all the answers they're smarter than everybody they know what's going on did you go yeah i i am i'm a fan of therapy yeah yeah now did you have a therapist that and sort of inspired that where you're sort of like what the fuck is i mean there's there's there's a reference to a therapist and almost everything i've ever written yeah so yeah so were they helpful to you? Even the ones that aren't are helpful, you know?

I mean, everybody's either a hero or a cautionary tale, right? I guess, or maybe just a bore and a waste of time. That's a cautionary tale. I guess so. Isn't it? I mean, your family, your friends, everybody, you either look at them and go, ooh, I want to do that, or I never want to do that. Yeah, or status quo.

Is that a cautionary tale, kind of? Sure, yeah. I don't want to do that. Yeah. We're status quo. Is that a cautionary tale? Kind of? Sure. Yeah. I don't want to be boring. Yeah. I don't want to be not interesting. Yeah.

Because I've been a therapist. I just started going recently again. And it's okay. I used to do a joke about it that when you go back to therapy and if you're in your 50s or your late 40s and you don't waste any time, you can kind of walk in and you're like, all right, look. Let's get to it, yeah. There's a lot of things we can't unfuck. Right.

And I know that. But listen, knowing what's fucked is really helpful, I think. No, for sure. No doubt. And also, there's all these different avenues now with the therapy in terms of what is PTSD and what isn't. Right. Everything, really,'t. Right. Like from, because if you- Everything really, right?

Right. So if you expand the definition of that, you know, how much of your problems or whatever your shortcomings are, whatever your emotional obstacles are, are based on, you know, maybe emotional trauma that you never even recognized as such. Has to be, right?

Yeah. It's just a reframing of the same shit all the time. Right, right. You know, mommy, daddy, whatever. But you do it over and over and over and over again. And you go, all right, I understand this a little bit. And that's it, right? Well, yeah.

Or you take pills and you just. I don't do, never, I never was always, always adverse to pills. Me too. Yeah? I tried them. Yeah. I mean, you mean drugs or like antidepressants? No, no, I mean like antidepressants. Yeah. I mean, listen mean drugs or like antidepressants? No, no.

I mean like antidepressants. Yeah. I mean, listen, I don't want to down talk it because some people need it. No, of course. But, you know, look, chemical imbalance or whatever else, the truth of the matter is is we're all, all that stuff has to come from, yeah, I guess there's some people are just born goofy, you know? Right.

and right yeah i guess there's some people are just born goofy you know right but uh for the most part i'd say 95 of it is uh is how we were raised our childhood or what screwed us up when we were younger you know it's weird though because like you know as you say like you had a kid and you know you say that there's a part of you you get older and you know you're not you know you're you're not you don't want to be as um you know cocky or whatever you know what i mean that the sometimes age just kind of mellows you like you know somey or whatever you know what i mean that the sometimes age just kind of mellows you like you know some things aren't as important as they used to be sure which is a fucking gift right you know but then you come up against for me as a guy an older guy like there's like i'm not married and i've been married twice i got no kids and there's like a reason for that

right i don't want kids great yeah but i i don't know why you know what i mean did you want a kid yeah i feel like i always wanted a kid so the kid was on purpose well yeah pretty much yeah yeah yeah but yeah no i wanted a kid i don't know why i wanted a kid i mean i think it's just in my dna to want a kid i think it's supposed to be in all of our DNAs on a primitive level. Sure, sure. But then, listen, people that decide, look, if you can be happy and you don't need that, then you're different. Yeah, the happiness thing. Yeah, that's a whole other thing, too, you know, the happiness. Well, happy is relative. I guess so.

But, I mean, if you can get through life and realize, I'm glad I didn't do that. Yeah. But I mean, you know, look, I mean, what are we here for, right? I guess. Yeah, I mean, I'm not saying it's bad or good. I'm not either. I'm not saying. I'm just realizing as I get older that like, you do start to realize like it's a finite

trip we're on. Yes. Yeah. We're back to death. Right. And you know, it's like finite trip we're on. Yes. We're back to death. Right. And it's like, what is it? Because you spend a lot of time repeating yourself or doing stupid shit or whatever it is that are your patterns.

And then one day you're sort of like, I got to make some different choices. Right. If we're not constantly trying to be better or constantly trying to fix the shit that we've done over and over and over again, we're not living, right? Right. But also like learning to accept certain things as well right there's some things like well this

is just the way it is yeah yeah yeah you know and i got and instead of beat the shit out of myself right right sure sure sure but you can fix yeah you can you can fix what have you what have you had success in fixing? That's a pretty big general. But like in your mind. Everything, man. I mean, being, you know, whatever my goofy past is with relationships or how I was with my mother or how I was with my father. years and going oh this is the way to do it or communicating or getting through things right using different tools that i didn't use before understanding things or not having to be right or sure oh that's a big one right i mean or being able to say i don't know or or seeing the big picture of like wait if i could you know make it to the end and be you know content and be with this per I mean look

when you're young it's about fun right I guess well what's for me all I wanted to do is have fun and as I get older I'm like okay so you trade a little bit of fun for more meaning right as you get older it's like alright let's try to make things deeper deeper and more meaningful relationships or friendships or whatever all right you know right you're younger your friend does something stupid and you're like or whatever else, you know, when you're younger, your friend does something stupid and you're like, I just want to,

you know, punch him in the mouth. And as you get older, you go, all right, how can I help my friend not be an idiot? And so I don't want to punch him in the mouth. Right.

But when you're younger, you just butt heads and go, all right, fuck you. Fuck you. Yeah. But it makes sense. We could do a whole three hours on what,

you know, what can be fixed and what did. Well, yeah, I mean, it's just curious to me could do a whole three hours on what you know what can be fixed and what did well yeah i mean it's just curious to me but in the sense that like what i do know for sure is a lot a lot less is there's a lot uh a lot of the things i thought were very important or not i agree and and that gives you a certain amount of leeway yeah you know what i mean a little freedom like and it just falls away naturally, which is a fucking gift. Right. And now, yeah, the meaning thing.

And also, I wasn't the guy that just wanted to have fun. Now I'm getting to that point. But I'm 56, and I'm at the juncture where I'm like, well, what do I want to do with my life? My whole life was fucking struggle to get where I am. And then somehow or another another the miracle of success happened and now I'm sort of like well I don't know what I want to do with this and I just bought this house and I love it

but I was living in a shack so I don't know what do you do now a lot of things worked out don't stop so when you write plays like the therapy play do you find that you're resolving things do you find through the writing process that you're doing. So when you write plays, like the therapy play, do you find that you're resolving things?

Do you find through the writing process that you're able to enact and resolve and see things differently? Is that part of the experience? No. I mean, I think maybe subconsciously, right? It's got to be. What are the other subjects that you do?

It's usually about relationships. It's usually about trying to figure that out. Yeah. I mean, we're a communal species, right? Sure. So we're supposed to be with other people. That's what I hear, yeah. I mean, I tend to like it once I get there.

Yeah. But getting there is difficult. Well, so anything that's worth digging into is difficult, right? I mean, if we just do the things that are easy, that's boring. And we're also going to end up being 80-something or 90-something and go, shit, what did I do, you know? It's difficult to learn how to play the guitar.

I mean, so you got guitars, right? I do that, yeah. Yeah, but that's not easy to do. You could go your whole life and go, I never dug deep into that and tried it. I mean, or martial arts. It's like, it's a hard thing. You get beat up and you get broken a little bit.

I guess that's true. But you're, you know, you accomplished it. Anyway, going back to the question. I think on a subconscious level, when you're writing something or acting in something or taking a photograph or whatever it is, of of course there's a part of that that's you know therapeutic right but at the end of the day if you're a creative person and i still don't know what i want to do when i grow up you know what i mean you feel that too yeah i'm still searching for what's going to be the thing that i'm happy that i when i'm dead i know that exists and to me that's not i haven't i certainly haven't done that yet it's not hawaii 50 it's

definitely not a wife i'm sorry no but you're right man it's it's not and look i'm lucky enough to do something that i like enough yeah to get and get paid to do it oh yeah man but well it seems to me that like that that is a nice thing to have that gig you know because it does afford you a certain amount of freedom to do other things and do things you want to do. Yeah, well, not, yeah. How did you start doing the photographs? I was directing my first movie. The dog movie? No, no, this movie called Dallas 362

that Jeff Goldblum was actually in. I got to watch that movie. How'd it do? It's okay. I mean, it went to festivals, an independent movie. It did all right but um the cinematographer this guy phil parmette yeah um he was a great photographer and he sort of took me through uh film you know photography school while making that movie and then i just got obsessed

with it but again that was just something me trying i mean i don't consider myself a photographer i got really into taking pictures for 10 years. And, um. You still do it? Not really. Oh, that was it? I mean, I did, you know, I don't know, man. Like I said.

You're not trying to bum me out. No, you're not bumming me out. Like I said, I'm still trying to figure out what I can be. You know, when you're younger, you do things because you want to get patted on the back a little bit. Sure. You know, you want people to go, oh, I really like that. And as you get older, you're like, I'm not so interested in that. I want to get patted on the back a little bit you know you want people to go oh i really like that and as you get older you're like i'm not so interested in that i want to do something tried it yeah and then you go through i i want to say something i want people

to understand this and go all right i dig this and i'm and i'm with you and thank you for that yeah and then you go past that stage and you're like all right i just want to do something that i like to do and i feel like i'm being creative well don't you find though like look man like i'm starting to feel that way about acting it's like something i always wanted to try like i always had it in me you're good at it well thanks yeah but like there's there's a lot of sitting around dude yeah true and you know it's uh what's the saying they don't pay you to uh to act they pay you or they don't pay you to uh they pay you to wait to pay yeah yeah but i mean i like it and i wanted to challenge myself and i'm doing a role where I got to,

you know, I'd be a little different than who I am coming up next week and I'm nervous about it, but whatever. But I don't like, I'm glad I'm getting these opportunities to try it, but like, I don't know if it's my life and stand up. I've been doing my whole life, but oddly what's happening to me now is like, is there a time where it's okay to be like, no, I think I'm done doing things. Yeah, man. If you're, as long as you got, I got i mean like you said you're not living in a shack anymore well the thing is right that's true but like i'm just i guess my point is no matter what you do or what you're

you think in your mind i'm going to do something that's going to be the thing that i'm going to be proud to leave or whatever all that stuff drifts it all fades man what do you mean i mean it's like what is the relative importance of fucking anything that anyone's accomplished? Eventually, after five years, three years, it's like, it's gone. It's behind you. It doesn't matter anymore. Yeah, but if you're a creative, I mean, I hate to use the word artist, but if you're an artist and you get to a point where you don't want to do it anymore, then you're probably

ready to die. I guess. You're like my cat. You know, you're just like, I'm going to crawl under the bed. Yeah, man. I mean, she's like, i don't do the things i used to do anymore i'm not you know my dog doesn't run up the steps and catch ball anymore she used to jump up and catch a frisbee she can't jump up anymore you think she's happy no no i mean 100 300 years ago if we were traveling and the dog couldn't make it across the river we'd see a dog you know someone hit it in the head

with a rock like it's a rap on the dog yeah no they have good lives now I think they did that with people even sure if grandma couldn't make it across the river

sorry yeah grandma it's been fun yeah gotta go we gotta keep moving yeah we can't we missed this winter I think people still do that

they just put them in homes right I don't want to go to a home no yeah if I hear someone say change the diaper I'm gonna look for

a shot of heroin or something. Yeah. Something. Someone would do it. No, I get what you're saying. But again, you know, I say, oh, I want to do something that I'm proud of and go, okay, I did that. I hope that when I do do that thing, I immediately want to move on to the next thing.

Right. Or otherwise, you know. What's wife? Or it's, you know, you're old and you just want to hang out with your gal and kids if you have kids or get a new cat i don't just sit and read sit and read no good no man how many plays have you written 20 yeah and how many have been published well uh, I have four plays, full-length plays published through Dramatists. No, three.

Yeah. And then I have a collection of plays. And in that collection, there's about 15 plays. And those were all the plays that were back-published after I had gotten published. And that's all the stuff that I did at Playhouse West that never had a bigger production than at Playhouse West. And these are things that get done? You get residuals from them occasionally? $6 here and there.

Yeah, yeah. Have you seen productions of your plays done that you've just walked upon? No. Oh, no? Never. Huh. No.

And do you want to do your plays? I mean, I would love to do a play in New York, but I go over, you know, it's like I go in a meeting, and they go, oh, that's cute. You write plays, you know, they don't take it seriously. Why? I don't know, but maybe because I'm on Hawaii Five-0 or I don't know. I don't know.

That's it though? I don't know. Maybe I haven't written anything good enough yet for that. I mean, it's a tough world to get into. I mean, I've never acted in a play. I've been on stage acting in LA for 20 something years. I've never done anything in New York on Broadway, off Broadway, off, off, off. Have you tried? Yeah. I mean, not vigorously. Yeah. But that seems to be

like if you've written like 20 songs on play, that seems to be like something, one of the things that has lasted the longest in terms of what you like to do. Sure. But just being prolific doesn't mean that you're good at it right no i yeah of course not but you like doing it yeah so what about fatherhood how's that going i dig it man i dig it my daughter's a an amazing smart uh sharp beautiful human being man how old she's five wow yeah i mean everybody thinks that about their kid right right? Geniuses. Geniuses. Yeah, they're all geniuses. Gifted. Yeah. Yeah.

But she, you know, man, there's few things in life that make all the bullshit go away, and she's one of them, you know what I mean? Yeah. That's great. But that's real. And you live with the mother. I do. Yeah.

And I can't, like, I don't have one, but I know that it does something to you. Yeah, man. It does a lot does something to you. Yeah, man. It does a lot of things to you. Yeah? How did it change you, really? Did you worry nervous going into it? Were you concerned? Yeah, I was concerned.

You know, like I said, everything's either a hero's tale or a cautionary tale. So I don't, everything I do with my daughter aside from just watching her and enjoying her is, I hope I don't fuck this up. I hope, you know, my friend once told me, I told her I was having a daughter. She has two kids and she had a rough childhood. And I said, I'm just worried, you know, I'm having a daughter. And, you know, what do I know from raising a girl? I mean, I know I could raise a guy, slap him around. Do what your dad did.

Yeah, exactly. Or do what my dad did the opposite of the bad that he did. Right, sure, yeah. And she said, all you have to do for a girl if you don't want her to be a stripper is just love her. I was like, great. You could do that. Perfect, I could do that. Now, how many grandkids does your father have?

Two, just my daughter and then my sister has a son. Does he like it? Yeah, he does. Yeah? Yeah. They turn into something else, the old men, sometimes when they have the grandkids. He's the same. No, really?

With her, he's the same? Yeah, he's the same. Well, I think because sometimes they can- But in a good way. They can show up better because the kid leaves. Well, that's the that's the idea right yeah right you know my girl the other day was talking about you know talking about her grandparents were so good with her yeah why are the why can't your parents be as good because

when you're a parent you're figuring the shit out by the time you're a grandparent you go i know just what to do yeah and then when it gets a little goofy i can go home or they can send the kid away right perfect and that's uh back to death man that's like uh same thing with death like you know when we're young we lose our great-grandparents and then we lose our grandparents and then you lose friends along the way and then by the time your parents go you should be prepared and able to deal with death and able to kind of accept it and understand it just dealing with this cat i've got my parents are still around yeah my grandparents are gone.

But what's the bummer, right? The missing it? No, there's no bummer. It's just like, it really, it's sort of like breaking up with somebody in the same, you don't want to do it. It's going to be a pain in the ass. It's funny you say that because every girl that I couldn't break up with, I kind of had this sick feeling like, well, if they just die, I'd be okay. Right? Because you don't want to do it. Well, right because you don't want to you don't want

to do it well no i want to break up i just don't want them to if they're gone then i don't have to decide whether i could have worked it out or been better yeah ah well i don't i had no choice but yeah i get it sorry yes but it's just like these things were like i broke up with somebody not too long ago and it's it's harrowing to to sort of come to the moment where you're like i'm doing right and it's heavy it's it's the worst thing ever it's heavy yeah and it's not unlike you It's harrowing to sort of come to the moment where you're like, I'm doing this. Right. And it's the worst thing ever. It's heavy. Yeah. And not unlike, you know, I think putting a cactus weeps a little more final, but approaching it and saying like, all right, let's do it.

Right. Yeah. You're not a religious guy. No, you? No, not at all. Were you brought up with any? I mean, no. My dad was like, you know, like pretending to be religious Jew.

Right. And my mother was a... He probably was brought up with it and then got away from it. I don't even know how much it was real for him. Yeah. And then my mom was born Catholic and then was born again Christian. Whoa. So she was...

She was that when she... through the end? Yes, very much so. Really? Yeah. And how old were you when that happened? When she started that? Yeah. 15, 16.

Oh, so you saw it happen. Yeah. Strange. Strange. It must have been strange. Yeah. But I don't know. Hey, man, look, whatever floats your biscuit.

I get it. But that's one of those transitions where you're like, man, what just happened? If you're happy, if it makes you happy, you know, people that go after, yeah. But what did you have, did she bring you to church and stuff? I mean, she would say, you know, before, my mom, she was an interesting lady. I used to get into trouble when I was younger. Like what? Arrested and shit?

Arrested, fights, you know, late nights, whatever, going to Hollywood clubs when I'm 15 16 years old and you know she would I she wasn't the kind of mother that would say don't go she would just say let me let me pray for you and put put hands on you and Jesus will keep you safe but before that though you were 14 and she wasn't doing that right no no you mean praying yeah I mean like you know I mean it's a big shift from like you know whatever she was before she was born again. And then how did it happen? I mean, there's a lot of different... That's a long story.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. I mean, over here, I'll just make it simple. Do you ever know any born-again Christians that didn't do a bunch of crazy shit before they became... Yeah, sure. Yeah. So they're all kind of going oof maybe

let me try to fix all that yeah or look for something lost a little bit lost and if that fixes them and it does good for you i mean i guarantee you that when she passed that's what made her okay with passing yeah you know when it was like hey you want to fight and she was like no i'm good i got jesus we can we can judge it but we could also- So she pushed it out there, and she got too far out there, and then she needed to get back. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, which is better than people that didn't come back, right? Yes.

Do you talk about that kind of stuff on this show? What do you do? On this show? Yeah. Sure. Religion, something like that. Well, yeah. Recently, I've gotten a lot of-

I just talked to Paul Walter Hauser, the guy who's in the- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I just see, I don't know. He looks familiar, and I see his face on this billboard everywhere. He's very good. Yeah. Yeah, I talked to him. We got into some Jesus.

So he's into Jesus? He grew up with Jesus. His father was a minister. Oh, okay. Lutheran minister. Yeah. But he kept the Jesus. He did.

Yeah, but it's sort of fast. Yeah, yeah. I mean, some people get away from Jesus. Again, okay. Lutheran minister. Yeah. But he kept the Jesus. He did. Yeah, but it's sort of fascinating. Yeah, yeah. I mean, some people get away from Jesus. Again, whatever you dig. No, I give it. But there's something kind of fascinating when somebody snaps into it. It's pretty dramatic. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Being saved is a dramatic thing. Right. I talk about that on stage. I say, for me to find God at this point in my life, the wheels would really have to come off. Me too. Me too, man. Me too. I don't want that. I don't want that. No. It's weird. That's the resistance. point in my life the wheels the wheels would really have to come off me me too me too man i don't want that i don't want that no it's weird that's the resistance that's what does that tell you i mean well i'm just curious about uh um when when your mother changes

into the born again and i mean i mean you're 15 and you're out of control. Yeah. It was good for me because she was like, I have no worries. I'm not worried about you going out and I'm not worried about the hoodlums that are coming by here doing hoodlum stuff because we're all taken care of. So for me as a kid, I was like, this is great. Yeah. Yeah. Nothing can hurt you. But there was no discipline after that? Oh,

I haven't had discipline since I was 12. Yeah. So, but so it was just sort of like, well, Jesus forgive you and did you,

did you try to- Not even about forgive you, you're safe, you're protected. Huh. But you didn't try to- I mean, I was,

I was, you know, hanging out with animals, you know, dudes that had just gotten out of prison at, you know, that escaped life sentences

because they were underage and she's like, you're fine'd you meet those guys i don't know man you know i don't know that sounded like an exciting time i mean yeah but uh i mean i i always you know my dad was again like he was a tough dude from queens yeah so for me uh i was constantly trying to be as tough as him you know like that's what i had to live up to so right like the the worst humans i could surround myself with the more legitimate i was as a person when i was younger you know and were you getting validation from him i don't even know if he was paying attention to that part of it but i definitely was you know you're trying to just yeah he hung out he has his friends were like israeli drug dealers and mobsters and

shit i'm like i know a guy who stabbed someone i'm gonna hang out with him you know that was it yeah and and so what did it take for you to uh to get out from under that um um i guess was there like i don't know i'm still i mean I come on this thing. The first thing we talk about is that, you know? No, I don't... I know going into talking to anybody, they want to go, what's it like having that dude as your pop? So I'll be under it forever, right? No, no, no.

I mean, just what did it take for you to realize that you were going to be defined by different things? Oh, that has nothing... That's... You talk about what have you fixed over the years. Sure, like was there a moment where you're like, I got to get this murderer out of my house? Sure.

Listen, you know what? I still talk to the murderer. But I have boundaries and I'm not... You don't have to prove yourself. The older I get, I'm trying to impress less and less. You know what I mean? Right, right. You got some self-acceptance. Yeah, and I know what I want. I don't want to prove yourself. The older I get, I'm trying to impress less and less. You know what I mean? Right, right. You've got some self-acceptance.

Yeah, and I know what I want. I don't want any trouble, man. I want to hang out with my wife and kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I want to exercise and hang out with my kid and do something good creatively. Because I only know your father from movies right and and from my whatever I'm projecting onto the guy right right you know and like I I I wasn't but but like you know I I knew that he was you know relatively tough to you but I don't know all those things and it's no different

than any other fucking crazy father right that a male child is trying to you know to to sort of live up to right right you know what I mean sure it's just a little more you know I to sort of live up to. Right, right, right. You know what I mean? Sure. It's just a little more, you know, when you tell me it, I'm like, I can picture James Gunn. Right, right. It's just different. You can't picture me trying to live up to my crazy motherfucking father.

Because I don't know. Right, because I don't know. Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I was going to try to be a doctor. Well, good thing not. Didn't happen. No. He's out of his mind in other ways but he never

hung out with jewish you know mobsters and they weren't jewish mobsters oh no them too just a jewish drug dealer yeah arms dealers or whatever yeah we i met you um you remember i met you in new york yeah cafe mogador yeah and they have i go there because they have uh they have malawa yeah you know Malawa? Which is, what's that? It's like a Yemenite dish that they only make on the weekends. And the only reason I know that is because a drug dealer friend of his, his wife would make it every Saturday and Sunday.

And we'd go over there and have Malawa. I love that place. I go there all the fucking time. Me too. It's my favorite restaurant. Yeah, I remember. And I recognize you. And we chatted and we were going to do this.

And were you with your wife? I think you were with your wife. I was with my gal, yeah. You said, let me get you and your dad on. Oh, right, right. Yeah. You're like an asshole. That's not going to do this. Were you with your wife? I think you were with your wife. I was with my gal, yeah. You said, let me get you and your dad on. Oh, right, right. Like an asshole. That's not going to fucking happen. My wife's like, I love him.

I was like, he's a jerk. I'm kidding. I didn't say that. Oh, she listens to the show? She's a fan. Yeah, well, I mean, that would have been great to have you and your dad on.

Just have him beat you down every other fucking word. I'd just sit there and listen. Yes, sir. What do you want me to say? You know what I mean? You'd start and he'd interrupt you. My dad, he just had a back surgery. He can't even get out of bed right now.

Yeah. And if he gave me a dirty look, I'd crumble. You know what I mean? Still. Yeah. Intense, man. Yeah, man. Now, do all the other, do the younger brothers have that same thing with him?

I don't know. I didn't really grow up with him. You talk to him, don't you? A little bit. Not like that, though, I guess. You don't say, like, are you terrified? No. I mean, he's not terrifying.

But I respect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have a lot of respect for him. I get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I couldn't tell you the half of reality because of- Of what? The respect?

No. I mean, I just have respect. I can't- There's nothing- I couldn't say a bad word about the guy. Yeah, of course. And listen, like any father, of course there's bad shit to be said, but I don't have the

balls nor would I ever say anything in a disrespectful way. Well, I'm just glad you got closure. Yeah. What? Closure? Wait a minute. No, it's still open-ended? Still working on it?

No, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. You're right. Yeah. I, no. You're right. I got closure. You're okay. You're comfortable. 100%. Acceptance.

100%. Good talking to you. Yeah, man. That was Scott Kahn. I thought that was a nice finish. Hawaii Five-0 is currently in its 10th season. It's on Friday nights on CBS. You can go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all of my tour dates. Oh, yeah.

People keep telling me this. I wouldn't know it. But my show, Marin, Four Seasons of Marin, are on American Netflix. I know that. North American Netflix. It's everywhere, but a lot of places the fourth season. But I know here in America, all four seasons are on Netflix and it is being taken off Netflix, I think, on the 13th of this month. So if you haven't seen my show and you want to watch it, do it now. All right. Just want to put that out into the world. Okay. © BF-WATCH TV 2021 Boomer lives. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category,

and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.