WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1091 - Josh Klinghoffer

Episode Date: January 23, 2020

Josh Klinghoffer came over to Marc’s house just days after receiving the surprising news from the Red Hot Chili Peppers that his time with the band was over. He talks with Marc about John Frusciante’s sudden RHCP reunion and being the odd man out. But he also talks about what it’s like to develop as a solo artist under the name Pluralone after may years of feeling like he was hiding in other people’s projects, including well-regarded collaborations with Bob Forrest, the Butthole Surfers, Jon Brion, Beck, PJ Harvey, Danger Mouse and more. This episode is sponsored by Beautiful Stories from Anonymous People and ZipRecruiter. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats, get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category,

and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers what the fucksters what the fuck buddies

what's happening i am mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it are you all right is everything okay i went to the chiropractor on the recommendation of people, a couple of people having never been to a chiropractor before. That was something. I don't know if I'm wrong in my opinion of chiropraction or practitioners. I don't know. I don't know. I'll share my experience with you momentarily. What else is happening?

I want to make sure that these dates are out there this the shows are selling fine i it's just we live in a period there's some people who knows man i'm not the biggest comic in the world i do pretty well but i seem to need to constantly remind people when i'm coming and i can do it on this show i I can do it on Twitter. I can do it on Instagram. Outside of that, I can't come to your house. There's no way I can just make the rounds. I'm not on Facebook. So this is the deal. I'll be in Cleveland, Ohio at the Agora Theater, January 30th. I'll be in Grand Rapids, Michigan at the Fountain Street Church, January 31st. I'll be in Milwaukee, Wisconsin at the Turner Hall Ballroom, February 1st. It might be chilly. Orlando, Florida. I'm at Hard Rock Live, February 14th. That's Valentine's Day. Now,

I said to you those tickets are selling better than I thought, but I get it, man. I don't know if I'm everyone's idea of a night out on Valentine's Day. I would say that really, if you know me and you want to hang out with me on Valentine's Day with your partner, that's nice. I will do a little something for Valentine's Day. I promise that. I don't know what, but I know I'm not. Look, I'm a lot to deal with when it something for Valentine's Day. I promise that. I don't know what, but I know I'm not. Look, I'm a lot to deal with when it's not Valentine's Day. And I'll try not to ruin your relationship if you come see me in Orlando, Florida, at the Hard Rock Live, February 14th on Valentine's Day. I'll do something special.

I don't know what that is, but I will figure something out. I'll be in Tampa, Florida at the Stras, February 15th, Stras Center. Portland, Maine at the State Theater, February 20th. This is a return to Maine for me. I think I did one of my first paid gigs as a comedian ever. One of my first paid gigs in a gunk with Maine, probably 1988. It was me, me and Nick DiPaolo.

I've been back to Maine a couple of times since then, obviously, but I don't think I've worked in Maine in 20 years. Is that possible? Probably more, might even be more. So that's a big deal. The return to Maine at the Portland, at the State Theater in Portland, February 20th. performed as a grown-up in Providence, Rhode Island. I believe the last time I performed in Rhode Island was maybe in the 80s, the late 80s, early 90s at Periwinkle's in Davos Square. I think that might be the last time I was in Providence, Rhode Island. So what is that, 30 years ago? Yep. So that's a big deal, Providence.

I'm coming back to the Columbus Theater, February 21. New Haven, Connecticut, at College Street Musical. I was there a couple years ago. I liked it. And Huntington, New York at the Paramount. I was there a few years ago, two years ago. I don't know. But New Haven on February 22nd.

And Huntington, New York at the Paramount on February 23rd. I was there. I like it there, out on the island there. You can go to WTFpod.com slash tour for links to all the venues. Dean Del Rey will be with me on those dates, barring anything. I can't imagine us having a falling out before then or during it dean delray has kirk hammett on his podcast right now i have a guitar player on my podcast today josh klinghoffer is here today i met josh klinghoffer uh a couple years back and he played with the chili peppers now this

interview i did was booked before he was fired from the chili peppers josh is uh was the guitar player for the chili peppers for almost a decade and we booked it before he was fired kept the date and we talk about you know what happened and who he is and you know how he got the gig he's very interesting guitar player he has uh other projects he's got dot hacker a few albums with that collaboration that's him he's got his uh plural one solo project he'll be opening for pearl jam on their spring tour starting in March the 18th. He's also going to be on stage with Pearl Jam a bit doing this and that. I talked to him after our conversation. But I like talking to guitar players and he's like a pedal freak and a

Stratocaster freak. And he goes out there, he fucking, he warps it. He goes out there he fucking he warps it he goes out there and warps the sound so that's coming up there's a 50 off sale going on right now at pod swag all right so you can get all the wtf stuff all the new wtf t-shirts travel mugs water bottles keychains all half off okay and it's applied at checkout you can go to pod swag.com slash wtf and get yourself merged up and i also wanted to tell you my buddy moshe kasher uh who's been on this show four times live and unlive has got a uh a new comedy album out it's called moshe kasher crowd surfing and it comes out tomorrow january 24th from comedy dynamics it's 100 Moshe Kasher Crowdsurfing and it comes out tomorrow January 24th from Comedy Dynamics

it's 100% crowd work Moshe has a skill at it and he makes it work and he was always it's really the best thing he does and I don't think he'd take that badly back in the day when I first saw him that was what he was doing he's good at crowd work

some guys are good at crowd work Todd berry's another one uh there's just some people are crowd work people you can get motion cash or crowd surfing as a digital download on apple music amazon or wherever you download your tunes so my back as i as i've told you before i've got some weird thing going on in my upper back right in between my fucking shoulder blades and beneath my neck that i think i popped something uh putting some weight down on it lower back i think that also came from poor form in the squat situation or the deadlift situation whatever the case i've dealt with the lower back before. The upper back is kind of a fucked up thing I've never had before in this way. So with the sort of suggestion over the years and recently from my trainer

and the woman I am seeing, chiropractor. They said go to a chiropractor. Now, as I said before, I was taught deeply and aggressively by my Western-practitioning father that chiropractors were bogus, bunk medicine, no good. The physical hands-on version of snake oil. Not the real deal. Didn't have what it took to become real doctors.

That was how I was brainwashed by my father now knowing that i i thought like well whatever man it's my back and you know i'm going i'm going to the real doctor today and i'll say that real doctor to get it looked at and maybe get some x-ray so i can make sure nothing squished or broken or fucking off in there. But I did go to the chiropractor first, and he did some stuff. He did stuff. He did everything just shy of some sort of witch doctor dance, to be honest with you. Now, again, some of it seems reasonable. Some of it felt effective. He did some tension testing, me pushing on his hand from my arm, from my leg,

and this and that. And then he had some sort of machines that clacked, that kind of pound, pound, pound, pound, pound, pound, pound. He put that on my lower back and on my upper back, then a different pound, pound, pound, pound, pound, pound, pound. I felt it clacking away on my spine. He did the little twisty thing that made the cracking noise on my back and my neck. Scary. Neck is scary. You really realize like, you know, there's a moment in a chiropractor's office where you're like, is this why I end up in a wheelchair? Is this why? Is this why I signed the release form? What happened? Why did you get shot? Were you in a car accident? No, I had some back trouble, and I went to a chiropractor, and I signed off on it, and this is how I...

Could you feed me that, please? Could you put that in my mouth? But look, not mocking anybody who has a debilitating or... That's not... I thought that when I was in getting my neck cracked, how easy it is to break your fucking neck. Pow, look out. Just shit my pants.

Just coffee.coop. So cracked, clacked around with the clackers, focused laser on the two areas that were causing pain. And I'm like, he said, look, it doesn't seem like you have a major injury. You have plenty of flexibility and you, you know, you have movement, motion,

range of motion. So I don't think it's bad. I'm like, okay. He did say he rubbed some stuff in it, some smelly stuff, camphor-y stuff. Then I weighed down my stomach and this was where,

you know, there was a couple of moments where I could tell his tone and I could feel the trick with the checking the tension. Oh, see, that's better now. This muscle is not working. This muscle is working. Whatever. And we're in the back of his house.

Now, I think the guy's probably pretty good at what he does. But when I laid down and he threw a couple of discs on two of my chakras and then made some diagnosis, some partial diagnosis about the energy there, I was sort of like, okay, maybe don't do that part. If you want to remain convincing, let's not do that part. But look, I'm sure that the cracking and the clacking and the rubbing and the heating and the nice smelling stuff that penetrates. Can't hurt.

I don't know if it's going to fix it. Maybe, I don't know. Maybe it takes a few days. But I don't know about the chakra discs. Chakras are good, pal. How's my back? All right. But I appreciate it and I was open to it and it was nice to have the

cracking and the clacking and the rubbing and the smelly stuff we'll see maybe maybe maybe a miracle happened i'm still in pain i worked out today and that's that hey you know what i'm not look i'm no doctor but if you're on this fucking carnivore diet or the keto diet or whatever can you please do yourself a favor and check if you have heart the keto diet or whatever can you please do yourself a favor and check if you have heart disease in your fucking family will you please you know it's like i i understand some people's conception of cholesterol or whatever but i went to a cardiologist i don't care what you think about pharmacology or pharmaceuticals or or western medicine but if you have plaque in your fucking heart, if you have a propensity to heart disease,

that you get plaque from eating fucking cholesterol, check it out. Check it out before you're like, this is a great diet. I can eat all the bacon I want to. I love this diet. I ate half a pig, and it took me a week, but I don't eat anything else. I just eat pig and egg yolks. Check it out. Cardiac disease is on the rise in fairly sophisticated cities,

and I got a hunch it's from a decade of meat-driven diets. I'm no doctor. I'm not saying this with any credibility. I just got a hunch. I got no doctor. I'm not saying this with any credibility. I just got a hunch. I got a hunch. If your diet includes eating all the bacon you want, just do yourself a favor. Check if you have heart disease in your family.

Maybe get your cholesterol levels read. And if you want to spend the extra few bucks, see if you got any gunk in your heart before you have fucking crap out at 44 from heart disease because your diet allowed you to eat you know raw meat every day just be careful i i i might be talking out my ass oh yeah i know that my episode of finding your roots was preempted by the impeachment in many places, but it was quite good. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed learning about Jeff Goldblum's family and Terry Gross's family. And I like what they chose to focus on about my family. You can get the PBS app,

which I just got, or you just find it. It was good. So I got an email about this. This is from Leslie. She said, this Asian thanks you. Hi, Mark. Love you. Love your podcast. Saw you in Joker the other night. You were great. I was watching the movie with my son and husband.

I got so excited when he popped on the screen. You would have thought I just saw my brother acting with De Niro. My son said, mom's friend has a cameo in the movie. Well, I listen to you twice a week. So in many ways, you are like a friend and a brother. Plus, I was born in 1962. So I really can't relate to much of what you say. Speaking of relate dot dot dot, I really appreciated your honesty during your interview with Randall Park. Randall spoke about what it's like to be Asian in America and how it can be a challenge at times if you are not

Caucasian. You very genuinely said that it was something you didn't really think about, not being white. It was refreshing to hear this being addressed. I personally am a third generation Chinese American. My grandparents came from China. However, both my parents were born in California, as was I. Despite this fact, it would blow your mind what people ask me as a kid and even now as an adult. Here is a sampling. Do you eat every meal with chopsticks? No. When did you come to America? The minute I was born. Do you have rice every night? No. Can you help me with my math? Hell no. Do your grandparents live with you? No. Do yours? Why don't you speak Chinese? Same reason you don't. Your mom makes spaghetti? Yes, and it's good. What do you do on Thanksgiving?

Eat turkey. How many times have you gone back to China? Never. Why is your English so good? I'm a Californian. I think you get my drift here, and it may surprise you that in the year 2020, this is something I still contend with. Interesting how Americans whose parents or grandparents were from Europe are often not asked such questions. Makes you think, right? I can relate to a lot of what Randall Park had to say, and I have a feeling many of your listeners do too. Thanks for your great podcast. I never miss an episode,

and I am enlightened by each and every one. You make my life better, and I'm grateful. Have an awesome decade fondly, Leslie. You're welcome, Leslie. Thanks for sharing that annoyance with me. I appreciate it. So look, folks, right now I'm going to talk to Josh Klinghoffer, who was until very recently the guitar player for the Red Hot Chili Peppers. As I said, he's going on tour with Pearl Jam. His

solo project, Plural One, will open for Pearl Jam on their spring tour starting in March on the 18th. Josh's solo album, To Be One With You, is available now wherever you get music, as is many of his other projects. It was interesting, and he does tell me his side of what happened and about his relationship with John Frusciante and about the Peppers and about, you know, how he got started and, you know, some about some other people who have been on this show. But look, I'll let him tell it. This is me talking to Josh Klinghoff. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations,

how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+.

We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. Will I die here? beyond that an epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by james clavelle to show your true heart just to risk your life will i die here you'll never leave japan alive fx's shogun a new original series streaming february 27th exclusively on disney plus 18 plus subscription required t's and c's apply Please apply. Are you there? Yeah.

Let me see. Yeah. Hello, yeah. You're registering. I see the wave things. Probably not that loud. Yeah, what is it with you guys? Come on, you sing.

Yeah, I know, but... What? Yeah, no, I still need to project more. Oh, yeah? Yeah, probably. You're a lead guitar player. Yeah. You're not a bass player.

You should be out front. Well, I was, I was. Have you heard? Are you up to speed? Up to speed? Well, no, I mean, yeah, I heard that... Yeah, I guess we've got to cover that. People are freaked out.

Things are buzzing. You're out of the chili peppers. Well yeah, and this was booked before that. Before that. And then someone like the day after, we booked it like, what's going on with the chili peppers? Frusciante's back, you gotta interview him. And I'm like, I got Josh coming.

So maybe we'll get some answers. Cause I just saw you guys at that benefit I host. Yes. At Flea's Music Conservatory. A few of. What happened? Was this, did you see it, did you know it was happening? No, not at all.

Come on, man. No, complete surprise. I mean, no, complete shock, but not a surprise, I guess. But you're friends with John Frusciante, right? I was, we hadn't spoken much since I joined the band. We'd sort of, now. Really? Yeah, at all, really. I hadn't spoken much since I joined the band. We'd sort of- Really? Yeah. At all, really.

I hadn't spoken to him in 10 years or so until Flea got married in October. We spoke briefly. But wait, okay. So now, but you guys, maybe we should go back. So you got blindsided by this thing? Yeah. And now you're out of the gig? Yeah.

And you just, you've got no explanations what did well the x i mean it's pretty simple and it's there's no uh there's no animosity i mean the the uh the explanation is that john is uh would like to come back and is sort of rekindle the relationship with the band or with flea musically and yeah for the last little while and behind your back I suppose you know I mean they were jamming somewhere yeah yeah but uh but um yeah the the moment they told me I I told I said to them I wasn't surprised by this you know it sort of crossed my mind once or twice when I when yeah when it was just when I heard that you know their John and Flea had hung out. I didn't know they'd been playing or anything. Yeah. But just in that moment, they told me I sort of had this great sort of wave of love for them and love for everything I was able to do with them.

And I sort of put up a barrier between that feeling and anything that might come beyond that point or any change that my life might go through or anything like that. So you stayed in the gratitude. Yeah, and I hate sounding like that normally. It's not easy for me to speak of all that stuff, but that's where I'm living. And it feels really good. Well, how long were you with them?

Ten years. It was a perfect sort of decade. It was like October of 2009 until December of this year. really good well how long were you with them 10 years it was a perfect sort of decade yeah october of 09 till december of so when when you took the gig i mean we can go through the history of it because you did several records with frusciante right when he left yeah and no well well no when he was in when he okay so you did his solo projects when he was with the peppers yeah and but like he's on how many you did one studio record with them or two two studio records two two and a half two and a half yeah well yeah two and then i brought you one actually there's a um there's a whole

collection of of extra stuff we did for the first record okay well i listened to some of your solo records i listened to a dot hacker uh work and play right that uh yeah yeah yeah those are great records thank you and i listened to another record i can't i'll figure out which one but but you know you go back in this la scene for a long time but i just i wonder what so when you joined the Peppers, was Frusciante, did that strain your relationship? Is that where? Yeah, kind of. Yeah, I mean, but the thing was we had been friends and we were working together. And when they decided after a long break that they wanted to carry on and he maintained that he was sort of done with it for that, you know, at that moment.

And they asked me to do it I think he was just a little surprised that they were going to carry on without him and then I was sort of talking to him as his friend about the fact that the band was carrying on but they had asked me so it was sort of a strange a strange position I was holding well that's interesting that somehow you were the logical step I mean you're no you're a strat guy they seem to like strat guys in that position. Yeah, well, I mean, I kind of assume the role that I'm given. Yeah? Is that what it is?

I mean, I guess so. I mean, I kind of, it's funny. Like, I figured, you know, I was trying not to have this conversation with my steering wheel. Yeah. All the way over here. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, as a guitarist, I sort of became one all of a sudden when I started playing with Bob Forrest when I was younger. I know.

Well, Bob was like, I've talked to Bob, and you played in Bicycle Thief, and I think he's great. Yeah, Bob's the greatest. But where'd you grow up? Here, in the Valley. Right in the Valley? Yeah. My parents are from New York, New yeah jersey but my sister and i the only californians really jersey like what part of jersey north jersey they're both my mom was born

in brooklyn my dad in the bronx and they both moved to you know the respected like the rockland county my dad and my mom moved to jewish guy north jersey my dad is my mom's irish catholic half jew and the mom's Irish Catholic. So you didn't grow up with any of the Jew stuff? No, you know, culturally. Yeah, right. Once in a while, I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But what'd your dad do? Why did they move out here? Film and TV, he's in the sound department. The sound guy? Yeah, he, you know, boom mostly and when he first started. He's a boom operator? Yeah.

He's the guy holding the? Yeah. Oh, those guys are important. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Gotta keep it out of the shot. shot yeah so there was like sound equipment at the house yeah a bit i mean you know he uh you know it's kind of particular i mean there was always that the nagra machine over there that looked great none of that stuff's around anymore man no it's no tapes yeah and what'd your mom do she didn't show up is at his? No, no, no. She worked for AT&T

until I was born and then sort of took a long hiatus from working and then she got a job at my school, my high school. Doing what?

The dean's office, which was fine because I wasn't in there that often, but I... You were not a bad kid? No. Not a shit? But I left anyway.

Maybe at haste in my... Do you have brothers and sisters? I have a younger sister. A younger sister? Is she in the business? No. Not a shit? But I left anyway. Maybe at haste in life. Do you have brothers and sisters? I have a younger sister. A younger sister? Is she in the business? No, no, no. She doesn't, normal life? I don't know.

She all right? Yeah, she's great. She helps me out. Yeah? Yeah. How? How does she help me out? Yeah.

Well, you know, I'm on tour all the time, so she sort of, she runs my life for me. Well, how? How does she help me out? Yeah. Well, you know, I'm on tour all the time, so she sort of, she runs my life for me. Oh, so that's good, because I thought about having my brother do that, like, you know, just employing him to manage the personal assistantship. Yeah, she manages my life.

Yeah, and then I thought, like, do I really want to deal with my brother that much? Yeah, well, see, that's the thing. Do I really want to deal with anyone else? So that was my- Well, that's nice. Well, that's a nice, well, see, that's the thing. Do I really want to deal with anyone else? Well, that's nice. Well, that's a nice, well, maybe it's different with a sister. I have no problem with my brother, but my brother up in my business, you know, giving me, you know, like, I don't know. It's just, I think we're good.

I think it would be strain, it would strain it. Very possible. And we'd end up fighting. Yeah, very possible. And then like, well, that's nice that you give her the job and that she helps you out. So when, so you didn't finish high school? No, I left, I guess it was the beginning of 11th grade.

I was 15, I'm a younger birthday, so I was. You were 15? Yeah. And you drop out and your mom's in the dean's office and you're like, I'm done with high school? Yeah, and that was a big problem. But I'm not sure. Of course it's a big problem. She may have snuck into the attendant's office

and done something. I'm not sure. What do you mean? You know, because we got a knock from a Truant officer once and then never again. Did anybody you dropped out? No, they sort of know if they don't see your name on the attendance records. But I'm not convinced that she didn't play a role in the Truant officer not coming back a second

time. I don't know. Yeah. so you just stopped going to school yeah it was kind of the result of a weird uh attendance policy they had i didn't set to drop out yeah and plan on it but um there was a whole sort of absence policy and then one by one the periods fell yeah i slept later and later and later but your mom but she knew you were at home. Yeah, yeah, no, it was a very tense period. I would just try and avoid them. Were you like, you know, fuck you parents and like,

were you all fucked up on drugs? No, not at all. That's when I learned how to play guitar because I started as a drummer. So you were all fucked up on guitar? Yeah. I started as a drummer.

Can you still do the drums pretty good? Yeah, well, I don't know. I mean, I played drums like a guitar player who barely plays drums. Oh, okay. So that's when you start playing guitar is when you drop out.

Yeah, and I just sort of stayed up all night and then when I heard them waking up, I'd get in bed. Really? Yeah, and somehow I was able to get away. And you just stayed in your room? Yeah, most of the time. And what was that first guitar?

It was a Strat. It was a Sunburst Strat. Really? And I bought it from someone on the recycler directly opposite the high school I left. A good one? Like American one? A Japanese one from the 80s that had a sort of funny fender locking tremolo.

It was like a fender's take on the 80s metal tremolo. Huh. So your first one is a somber strat. Yes. A Japanese 80s. That I broke in a fight with my mother, slamming it on the ground, probably about school or something like that. You don't remember?

It was actually about school, I can't remember. I sort of lashed back at her mother and it- Your grandmother. It exploded, yeah, so in that moment. In the house, volatile. Yeah, and I thought the best course of action was to slam my guitar on a marble floor. Broke, went in a box for years and years and

right after i joined the band i kind of came across and i thought i'll take it to eric's guitar repair and uh he put it together and i used it all over the first chili pepper record and then when your first strat yeah and it brought back from the dead and then right after that i think it was on you know on the first tour i was doing with them, the band was inducted into the Hall of Fame, and that's where it is now. That guitar, the first one that you broke on the floor because you were mad at your grandma. Yeah.

No, she was mad at me. Oh, yeah. And it's reconstructed. So you're in the Hall of Fame. Yeah. But everybody in the Peppers is. You just have... No.

Wow. I don't think so, but I don't know. I don't know. Really? That's how that works? Yeah, there was... Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not sure.

Sorry, buddy. No. Sounds like there's some points of contention here and there. So when you're starting out, though, who are you listening to? Because you play in a sort of a a way now like i like the way you play because it's sort of i i don't know if you would call it psychedelic or ethereal or or like something you know you're trying to it feels like you're trying to get somewhere out there with the playing do you know what i mean like like there's certain that dude uh what's his name

greenwood from radiohead he does it like i remember there's some older like you know some of the robert fripp solo shit you know kind of goes out there and there's some other kind of dudes that are kind of travelers with technology and effects and whatnot and just sort of sustain and stuff but it seems to be the the world you want to occupy yeah well i i play like someone that didn't grow up playing guitar. And when I started playing with Bob Forrest, it was, you know, he had just, I think he had less than a year sober, wanted to do music again. I was the 17-year-old kid around the corner

from his girlfriend's parents' house. In the valley. In the valley. But you'd been playing? I thought you'd kind of locked in. You'd just started, oh, you had just started playing a couple years ago. I was 17, yeah.

You know, I'd been playing in the bedroom, not not going to school but who were your heroes at that point like who were you trying to well i grew up like you know all the music i liked as a kid um you know it's starting from the beatles and the beach boys and then you know when i'm sort of eight nine there's the guns and roses right motley crew what do you think of slash as a guitar player he's one of my favorites yeah absolutely he's kind of like a monster on there, isn't he? Yeah. How the fuck does he even find that shit? Yeah.

It's kind of crazy. It is crazy. Yeah. I mean, he was there. Guns N' Roses got in the same year as the Chili Peppers to the Hall of Fame. So I was standing next to him. Oh, really? Playing.

Did you talk to him? No, not much. He's a nice guy, man. Yeah. No, I've only said hi to him. Duff, I've become friendly with him. He's an amazing guy. man. Yeah, no, I've only said hi to him. Duff, I've become friendly with him. He's an amazing guy. Yeah.

So, okay, so you kind of know how to play guitar? Well, you know, I'm just starting out. I'm figuring out records by ear in the bedroom. But then, yeah, through Bob Forrest and sort of... His girlfriend's parents lived around the corner? Bob's girlfriend at the time's brother was one of my best friends, still to this day. Oh, okay, okay. And at the time, though, we of my best friends, still to this day. Oh, okay. And at the time, though, we're 17.

He's three years older than me. So we just, you know, used to talk about music and smoke cigarettes. Her brother or Bob? The brother. Oh, okay. But then, you know, Bob wanted to put something together, and I was the guy around the corner, and I had, you know. One year sober, Bob Forrest. Yeah.

And he was friends with the Peppers and all those guys. He was in that world, right? Yeah, in that world. What was that world? Who was that world at that time cuz I had a in the 80s yeah cuz I remember talking to Bob and I know that he was close to those guys to the point where they had done some work together even right yeah I mean you know live together ran around town together it's a lot of her monster chili peppers yes bone Jane's Addiction right all these bands so So were you- And then born out of the, there was a kind of broader punk scene

or whatever you want to call it before that. A lot of heroin. Yeah, a lot of everything. Yeah, but were you aware of all that stuff going on at that time? No, when I was really young, but the minute I, I turned 11 I think in 1991,

started middle school, and that's when you know Nirvana Pearl Jam and that whole thing happened and that for a person that age was everything to me because I thought whoa there's a scene of people playing in bands together and since then or probably before that it's all I

ever wanted was to be in a band and have you know play music with your friends that you love you know. Yeah so Bob so he just finds you? What was that exchange? Because that's a good record. There's only one Bicycle Thief record, right? Yeah, only one.

We've threatened to do another one for years and years, but now maybe we will. Well, now I have a little more time. You got some time. And you're a Hall of Famer. You're a Hall of Famer with some time. It's only uphill from here, buddy. Yeah.

Yeah. But okay, so how does he approach you? How does that happen? He leaves a message on my answering machine, and, yeah, I just remember going to get together, and he had a couple songs he had started to write, and we just started to play. And it's sort of, now that I've known him for over 20 years,

he just jumps in. Yeah. And I remember we had a show booked within a month, and it was billed as Thelonious Monster. And time is making more sense to me now because it wasn't that long after Thelonious was around and he was newly sober. So we played a show, me, him, and Dick Stenney

from Thelonious Monster. As Thelonious Monster? I think that's what was on the bill. Yeah. Cause there was no Bicycle Thief yet. We hadn't written any songs together. Right. But, um, yeah, I remember thinking to myself that night, uh, shit, I'm a guitar player

now. Yeah. And then that wasn't really something I would admit to until then. He writes like, I like his songs, right? Yeah. He's incredible. He's like a really good songwriter. I don't, I don't know why he's not, you know known somehow yeah it'll happen yeah I mean it's still like that last record he

did was sort of really dark and fucked up and you know that song about not being able to eat his favorite cereal anymore yeah that's the yeah that's on the bicycle thief album that one's on there yeah he did an acoustic eversion of it on the last album. Okay, yeah, yeah. That's the one. And John Frusciante does a solo on that album with me. And that's sort of right after I had met him. So Frusciante is, is he in the Peppers then? When I met Bob and started playing with Bob and kind of joining the group of people,

the greater group of people that have been around playing, John was not yet in the band. He was just sort of reemerging from a dark period where he wasn't in the band. But he had been in the band before? Yeah, in 89, 88, 89, 90.

Right, and then he disappeared into a heroin hole? Yeah, eventually. Whatever. Yeah, the void. Yeah. Yeah. He left the band in 91,

92. Yeah. And then, left the band in 92. Yeah. And then, yeah, so he rejoined the Chili Peppers, you know, a year or so after I started playing with Bob. And, yeah, I think maybe even before the Chili Pepper album, Californication, came out, John and I had started becoming friends, and he came and played that solo. With Bob.

Yeah, we just started hanging out all the time. And you were playing with Bob? Yeah. And he came and played that solo. With Bob. Yeah, we just started hanging out all the time. And you were playing with Bob? Yeah. And he came and played the solo and then you guys started hanging out. Started hanging out. I had become pretty obsessed with his first solo album. Yeah.

Which was put out in 94. Which one was that? It's called Neandra Ledes. Yeah, yeah. Usually just a t-shirt, it's kinda two things together. Did he, was so, you know,

he was sort of, you liked the way he played. I loved the way he played. I loved the way he wrote songs. I loved the way he sang. That record just sort of, it's funny, because I just,

I came across something recently where he had said something that that album was never meant to be released. So it's just, it was just sort of a demo or something like that. Yeah. What about that record was so like incredible? Well, just that released. So it was just sort of a demo or something like that. Yeah.

What about that record was so incredible? Well, just that. I think it was just made for no one to hear. It was just sort of made for a pure audience of himself or people he knew. And what was it about the way he played that was so fucking compelling to you? Because he got out there?

Yeah, well, I mean, he just has an incredible, inherent sort of sound that comes from his fingers. It's wild, right? But he's very skilled and he's a student of the guitar. Yeah. you know, he's, he's a student of the guitar and he knows how to, um, you know, he, he created a sound of his own. Right.

Taking a lot from, you know, all the, the amazing guitar players. But isn't, isn't weird that how somebody can like, like take, like, like it doesn't matter how fast or what,

you know, people know for them to be, to have their own sound. I was just talking about that, just about that to someone the other day that, cause we were talking about John Merrick. Cause I went to see, to have their own sound. I was just talking about that to someone the other day, because we were talking about John Merrick, because I went to see Dead & Company, because my brother wanted to see him,

so I got us hooked up. And I don't know who he is as a guitar player, but he's a great guitar player, but I don't know exactly what his tone is or what his sound is. But there are some people that are much less, they have much less virtuosity who I can identify immediately because of their tone and their feel.

Yeah, that's something I, you know, so I would say I played like someone who didn't grow up playing guitar and I just sort of figured it out as I went along and I always felt like I was playing catch-up. Right. And playing with Bob and, you know, just I guess influences coming out in my playing, but I'm trying to,

let me. No, I think you have a singular sound. I think that, like, what are you saying, that like, you know, because there wasn't a lot of, like you didn't, a lot of people spend time mimicking people. Yeah, or just learning actual, you know. I never did that. Finger exercises and scales and stuff. Did you? No, not at all. time mimicking people. Yeah, or just learning actual finger exercises

and scales and stuff. Did you? No, not at all. I just played songs. I played with Bob until I was probably about 20, 21. On the road? How many records did you do? We just did the one, but being friends with the Chili Peppers, we did two opening tours for them as the first of three.

One was with Foo Fighters. One was with Stone Temple Pilots. Really? Yeah. Just on that Californication tour when they them as the first of three one was with foo fighters one was with stone temple pilots really yeah just sort of on that californication tour when they were hitting it hard and going every corner of the country and you did like a lot of dates yeah we did two three week legs so you're really getting your full immersion full immersion which is why when i ultimately joined later on it was sort of everything felt kind of natural i've known everyone in their touring family for years right you weren't a new uh entity i knew how it worked right and but but like that that first spot that's kind of a rough spot people are trickling in yeah no one gives a fuck yeah

but you know it's still for me i'm 20 21 and i just i barely look out at the crowd anyway i know all that i know people are getting their beers and finding their seats but you know just that opportunity to do that and so the relationship with john though was he like showing you shit um i i wouldn't know i mean not specifically showing me shit but just through you know the relationship we were building as friends i mean he was hugely influential just on many levels. Is he older than you? Yeah, he's nine years older than me. When he joined the Chili Peppers,

he was sort of the 10-year younger than them group. And I'm the 10-year younger than him group or nine years. So, yeah, I mean, I'm 18 years younger than the other Chili Peppers. Are you? So they're a little older than me? I thought they were around my age. I'm 56, so they're in that zone.

Yeah, they were born in 62, 61. 63, oh yeah. Yeah, I'm 79. Wow. So how does it evolve though? So you tour with them, and then you go out and do your own thing? Well, my own thing,

so having the dream of always being in a band and sort of starting the thing with Bob, but it wasn, so having the dream of always being in a band, and sort of starting the thing with Bob, but it wasn't a band so much, it was he and I, and then we got a couple guys to help play it live. But when I stopped playing with Bob, that would have been the moment to start something, something like that.

And then, and that was right at the beginning of my 20s, and I just sort of spent my whole 20s touring with other bands, amazing bands. Chili Peppers were on tour yeah i had a suspended driver's license and frishante was living at the at the chateau marmont yeah but he he wasn't checking out because it would have been too much of you know to come back and find somewhere new so i stayed there for for two and a half weeks and recorded basically an album there with him no on No, on my own. Yeah.

Because I had nowhere to go. At the Chateau? Yeah, because I had nowhere to go and I just had my cassette 8-track and no license. So I stayed up, you know, just recording all night and just made basically a record

and, you know, but no one ever heard it. And then at the end of that stay there, Gibby Haynes had called Bob maybe and called John. Yeah. Or, maybe and called john yeah or you know and said we know we need a guy we need a guitar player who could also play drums so i went out with the with the butthole surfers yeah for a month and a half that must have been crazy yeah i have no sense of uh you know what those dudes are like other than the music which is you know

its own thing was it were they touring on a record was it they were to harroway to steven no no no way after that it was they was touring on a record that was it was called weird revolution i think and um i guess harroway to steven is something that came out when i was younger that was yeah this was a that's like their biggest record or something like they had done a bunch of weirdo records and then harroway to steven was sort of like what is well then they had the massive hit in the early 90s called pepper. Right. I toured on the record after that. Oh, Pepper, right? That wasn't on Hairway to Steven? No, no, no.

That was on Electric Larry Land. Electric Larry Land. If I remember right. Oh, I can't remember the song now, the Pepper song. What was the chorus of it? I don't mind the sun sometimes. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a good song.

Yeah, it was great. I think I still have the backing track CD backup in my guitar case. There were some real psychedelic weirdos, right? Yeah, not so much when I was touring with them. What were they? Just old timers out to making a buck? Well, you know.

What? I mean, you know, yeah, some version of that. I think they were, you know, they hadn't been a band in a while, so they got back together, made a record. They were sort of, you know, I don't know. How many of them were there when you were touring? Well, it was Gibby, Paul, King, and then they had a bass player at the time who wasn't an original guy.

And did you have to learn the shit? I learned the shit. I learned the set. You know, we played the same set. It was an enormously efficient rehearsal schedule. We would get together at 12.30 p.m., play the set once, break, come back at 8 p.m., do it again. And so I got on a schedule. I was living in a Days Inn in Austin.

And I would stay up late watching TV, playing guitar, practicing, doing whatever. And I'd wake up pretty much 12, 15. Yeah. Get up. Go to the place. Get to the car. They pick me up. Yeah.

And I did that September 11th, 2001. Walked downstairs. Good morning, guys. You know, drinking coffee. And they look back at me and they're like, do you know what's, what? And they said, you don't know. The trade center's gone.

Pentagon, you don't know. So that's how I had to go to rehearsal and do a whole hour and a half rehearsal until I could see what was going on. Really? Yeah, and then I went back to my hotel and basically saw the birth of the news ticker and was in Texas for a month.

Wow, so you guys had a play that day? We rehearsed, yeah. It's funny, I think we did go back that night and rehearsed, yeah. Did you have to drum? I did stand-up double drums because King played drums, but I kind of did what they had in the 80s.

And now when you're doing that, so that's your next gig after Forest was you got pulled into the Butthole Surfers reunion tour. Yeah. And yet you wanted to start your own thing. So what happened to that thing you made at the Chateau? Nothing. I remember the bass player of that Butthole's tour

kind of compressed it and quote unquote mastered it the day before we left. And I just listened to it on my own. I gave it to a friend or two. And that's it. It still lives in a couple of iPods. You don't have it? Oh, I have it, yeah.

No, I just re-recorded one of the songs actually. There's still a couple songs on it that I love. So developing as a songwriter or as a front man, I went from being a kid drummer to someone who's barely considering themselves a guitar player to now wondering, do I start a band? Do I sing? But then I basically lived my dream throughout my 20s

with other bands. Well, what was the next one? What was after the Butthole Surfer tour? The 9-11 Butthole Surfer. Then after that, I did some stuff around town. I was really a big fan of John Bryan at the time. I used to go to Largo all the time. Oh, yeah?

And he threw a friend of his... That's a different world than the... It's sort of weird, the L.A. worlds of music. That's definitely not the Chili Pepper world. No, not at all. But it is its own world. Yeah. You know how that happened, this playing with John Bryan happened,

because after I stopped playing with bob and the bicycle thief we actually had our record re-released in some funny way yeah and um there was a record release party at the viper room and bob had asked me to do it because a sort of older wallflowers the counting crows type band was assembled for him that he didn't know was just put together and he said come on would you do it i mean it's these guys i don't know some of the guys from those bands right so i said sure sure i know the songs and um we had a brief fight you know that we mended pretty quickly so i came and i did it and i didn't bring a case and i you know brought my guitar in off the street jumped on played and left and the drummer that night was a guy named dan mccarroll who i used

to see play with john bryan all the time at Largo week after week. So a year after that Bicycle Thief show at the Viper Room, I got a call from him saying, hey, remember me? I played with you a year ago at Viper Room. I'm friends with John Bryan. We're doing this rock band residency at Spaceland. Because he did the weekly Largo thing, but they had asked him if he would do a band version,

kind of play his songs, but with other guys, or like a rock band. Yeah. And, you know, I was shocked, and I was like, I'm not going to go be the second guitarist. He was one of my favorites. He's an incredible player. And everything in my being told me to say, oh, thank you.

But I didn't. And that's kind of how I've just, you know, you know I just like what'd you learn from working with John because he's sort of a a notorious genius guy yeah I mean I just sort of you know I mean and he was playing guitar not piano he was playing both but mostly guitar because that was the point to just be a rock band guitar bass rock band so we would trade solos and you know I I'm obviously nowhere near the guitar player he is but I think he liked in me that I had gone to see him at Largo so many times. I knew his songs by watching him. And his record wasn't out yet.

So when we got together to rehearse the day before the first show or something, I'm playing all his songs from watching him. Oh, you knew him. So I think it touched him in that way. So we became friends. That was 2002. Are you still friends with him? I haven't talked to him in that way. So we became friends. That was 2002. Are you still friends with him? I haven't talked to him in a while, but just from business.

I just saw him at Largo. I did a show at Largo a month or so ago. I don't think I've seen John play at the new Largo, if that tells you how long it's been. He played piano on a thing. It was a Judd Apatow show. I was not part of that whole scene. I'd come in from New York.

I moved here in 2002 the second time, but I was not part of that whole music trip. It was like Amy Mann and John Bryan and Fiona Apple and Ben Montench sometimes, right? Is that the crew? Yeah, Elliot Smith a lot at that time. Elliot Smith at that time, right. Did you play with that guy?

I'm trying to remember if I ever shared the stage because after I met and became friends with John, I would try and, you know, any time I could. At the original Largo. Yeah, I would go up and play drums a little bit or play some guitar, and I feel like there was some Elliot crossover. And was there comics around then? Yeah.

The comedians, like Zach and Paul F. Tompkins. Yeah, Zach, that's the first time I saw Zach. I saw Paul all the time, yeah. Yeah. Greg Barron. Yeah, Greg Barron. I don't know what's up with him. I haven't seen him in a while.

He did something with Bob Forrest a while ago, a podcast maybe. Oh yeah, yeah, that's probably right. Okay, so there you did it again. So you're hanging out with John Bryan, but when's the next recording stuff that you did? Well, I didn't do a ton of recording from that point on after John. I I mean maybe through people I met there I got a call from Beck

so oh really in 2003 I went on tour with Beck and now at this point I'd really done Bicycle Thief touring and Butthole Surfers touring and now I'm going on tour with Beck and that's another step up in sort of venue size and you're playing with Beck playing guitar in Beck's band you know and which tour it was kind of

the third iteration of the sea change period I think he went out with Flaming Lips first then he went out with just Smokey Hormel who's an amazing guitar player and he was the last person

to play guitar with him at that point so I'm like I'm feeling Smokey's shoes what the fuck I can't do this and but I went and you know I got that and that shoes what the fuck I can't do this and but I went

and you know I got that and that band at the time was I mean it was an amazing band

I mean I'm not putting myself but Jay Bellarose played drums Steve McDonald played bass Greg Kirsten keyboard player

and we all got on incredibly well and I'm only 22 or 23 and I'm hanging out with all these older people which I've always sort of done and even though I look young but you know I'm only 22 or 23 and I'm hanging out with all these older people which I've always sort of done

right and I even though I look young but I you know I'm just sort of in and amongst all these incredible people

and I'm I'm living my my dream it's the dream playing with Beck in the big rooms yeah playing music with people you like

now I have to assume that you're picking up things like this is part of the evolution of your sound I mean cause like how big's the

the pedal board at that point? It usually was just as big as it had to be to do what I was doing. Now it's pretty big, right? It is big, yeah. But if you look at, you know, when I joined the Chili Peppers, John's was pretty big when he left. So I was kind of doing what I, you know, I was covering my bases.

I have such an aversion to any of the modern jiggery-pokery that you can do with live, you know, like amp modelers or MIDI effects or anything. What do they do? What, those things? Yeah. Well, they allow you to have lots of sounds with very little gear. Oh, you like to have the thing that does the one thing.

Yeah, and, you know, tap dance all over it and smash it and, you know, unplug the power and look at your guitar tech and watch them come out and try and fix it in front of a lot of people. Yeah, I've seen you do that. Yeah. Yeah. You get pretty athletic with the pedal board.

Yeah. Okay, so after Beck, then you're playing with John? Yeah, in that period, yeah. We had started making records together. We would hang out um anytime he was off how'd you not get fucked up on drugs well none of those people were at that time they're all sober yeah and also you know i i i had my period a little later but uh but not that bad and i mean like you know doing heroin and doing that kind of stuff i mean you

i mean i mean it's funny the stories we tell tell ourselves about what's acceptable and what's not. So you just did heroin socially? Well, not that. No, I never went there. But, you know, it's just, it felt a little ridiculous to be younger, see what happens and go, that's good for me.

But having said that, other things, you know, you dive right in. But you were able, yeah, I guess, you know, by certainly having a relationship with bob and seeing that the sort of uh the destruction it reaped on you know those bands that scene got you know i kind of leveled with that shit yeah but everybody got sober man yeah i mean the ones who yeah the ones who are alive yeah yeah so you're playing with john and you're you're doing these you know his trippy records yeah well we were we were hanging

out all the time kind of listening to records practicing vocal harmonies and just kind of being friends and and uh we we decided to make a record together and it sort of turned into his solo album Shadows Collide With People uh because that that was um the group of songs he had written at that time uh we just we we started and I was playing drums and we had done a lot of demos. Yeah. And it was the first time I'd ever really recorded drums in a proper, you know, studio situation.

And it was so much for me to handle. I barely play drums anymore at this point. Right. So we called Chad in, Chad Smith to the rescue. And then this freed me up to play bass. And then all of a sudden we were tracking as a three-piece, and that's how that record came about, the Shadows Collide With People album,

and we had a great time doing that. How good are you on bass? Oh, I don't know. You know, I can do it. You can do it? Yeah. But it wasn't your instrument. Well, no, it wasn't my instrument,

but I love playing bass, and the next touring gig that I had was initially sold to me as I would be the bass player. Right. And it was with PJ Harvey. And I get a call from her, another answering machine message. Wait, how'd she find you? She found me through Vincent Gallo. Did you hang out with Vincent?

Did you play? Yeah, I played with him. And that was through Frusciante. They'd become friends. They worked together. Him and Gallo? Yeah, he did a video with John for a song. Why Gallo was this guy that was just around all the time and he was this barometer of some sort of cool.

But I never really knew what he did, really. Well, he does lots i know he makes movies he makes music he dresses a certain way he looks like he does he he had been asked to do a couple gigs in japan where he he has a particularly strong following uh-huh so he put a little band together and it was myself and carla azar has she been there she was in she was in a band called auto luxux. Yeah. Played with Jack White recently. But yeah,

the three of us, I think I had met Carla around that time. It was great and we did four shows in Japan. It was like touring with the Beatles sort of. Really?

People banging on the cars. Yeah, Vincent's really big over there. And that was just another side project you did. Yeah, just a quick thing. with Gala.

Yeah, and then I did it again a year later. We did the Fuji Festival. But yeah, Vincent gave Polly my number, and she left a message. And the original plan was she had started playing again as a three-piece, which I had seen her do

when I was out with Beck. We played back-to-back at a festival in France. And that was her original, you know, first two records are three-piece. Dry. Her on guitar. Yeah, yeah. And it was the original drummer, Rob Ellis,

and Mick Harvey from the Bad Seeds on bass. So she calls me and says, I want to go out as a trio again. Mick has a commitment to the Bad Seeds. Would you play bass? And I was, yes, I will. So we started a friendship, and I was going to play bass. And then over the course of the next maybe four, five, six months, she had seen The Fall play.

And at the time, The Fall had a bass player called Ding. And she decided that he was a great bass player, and she didn't want to play guitar. So I got moved to guitar, which was fine. So I played guitar, and then I actually wound up playing double drums. See, she just pulled the bass player from The Fall? Yeah, straight out of the fall. Yeah, he quit that band?

That band's gone through a lot of people. They go through, yeah, I don't know if he officially had to quit. I think he just sort of stepped aside. He actually maintained a great relationship with Marky Smith until the end, which was rare. Yeah, oh, really? Yeah, just to kind of, especially to leave the band. Are you a fall fan?

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know a lot about them, but I'm playing catch-up with a lot of those bands, but I've been getting a lot of their records, and I can see how it would integrate into your trip. I had, through my then bandmate, I got to sit in the room and hang out with Mark in the background

and just sort of hope he didn't focus in on me and say, who the fuck is this? Yeah, but he didn't? He didn't. In fact, he talked about me once, referred to me as the American, and I was sitting across the room. Oh, that's nice.

And he didn't know it was me. So did you record with PJ or no? No, it was just touring. We did a... How many dates? A lot of dates? Yeah, I mean, at the time, it felt really long,

but it was actually only, you know, over the course of a year. I think we started rehearsing in March, April, and then we were done by December. And what album was she touring what was it it was called uh her oh four yeah but we toured a lot we you know it's funny that it was only you know in 10 months or so we went to australia twice we we were playing a lot do you keep in touch with these people some of them it's weird right yeah i keep in touch with most of the people in that band the good um my guitar tech that i met on that tour came with me to the chili peppers so

like a guitar tech is that like you know he's your guy well yeah i mean he he and i just became great friends on that pj harvey tour i was the only american and at the time i was obsessed with england and all things english and i was just trying to survive in the sea of englishness yeah and you know they sort of accepted me and gave me an honorary you know what british yeah whatever that means yeah i was i was i was sufficiently aware of the right humor and music that i i i got in but uh yeah yeah i've i'm in touch with most people from well that's good yeah you don't have any enemies no i don't think so that's good so outside of the chili peppers and those frusciante records you've done the dot hacker records and the

purolo puro one records yeah yeah well yeah because I was just touring and that was the thing I was getting after the PJ Harvey tour I did some like 2005 I tried to start a band with a guy here in LA that I'd known for a while that didn't take off. And then I was just sort of hanging around. I toured with that band Gnarls Barkley because I'm friends with Brian Burton, Danger Mouse Brian. I did a record with him and Martina Topley Bird who sang with Tricky.

I remember Tricky. What happened to that guy? He's around. And Martina, she's on his first couple of records and she's got one of the greatest voices and she was making a solo record and it was pretty much just Danger Mouse, Brian, myself and her.

Yeah. And then when they went to put the Gnarls Barkley live band together, it happened pretty quickly, I think. And the guitarist who wound up touring has become one of my closest friends Clint Walsh

he had a prior engagement so he couldn't do the first show something like that so Brian asked me to fill in so I hung out

went to rehearsal made the trip to Scotland we played four songs so we you know crazy

played crazy live for the first time in the UK it was the biggest song of that year and then you know went home like thanks that was for the first time in the UK. It was the biggest song of that year. And then, you know, went home. Like, thanks. That was fun.

Must have been a huge crowd. It was. Yeah, yeah. It was a BBC thing. So then, but that was it. So, you know, kind of, I'm not sure what I'm doing at this point. And then I started playing with Sparks. Do you know that band?

Yeah. Yeah. They're an LA band though, right? They're old guys now. Yeah. They've been around a while. But they, you know, They have an amazing career. I never understood their music.

Well, it's changed a lot. I know. I've got a bunch of their records because they're a project of mine. I have a bunch of records downstairs. And I know there's certain people that their unique thing that have a very specific audience. And I have the records and I try every once in a while but I somehow my brain doesn't know

where to put it well they have a lot of different periods and that was what was interesting about them they have different kinds of fans in different countries because they had hits in England in the 70s France in the 80s Germany in the 90s in Russia they, they're this crazy cult band because Ron wore his mustache a little close to another. Yeah. Hitler mustache. So for that, I think for that reason alone, they were put on this blacklist in Russia. So because of that, all the sort of against the grain people sought out Sparks. So when Sparks, when I played with them in Russia in February of 06, it was, again, not like the Beatles,

but there were people that were like. Do they like the music or just the mustache? Well, the mustache is gone now, but I think they like the music too. Like what's your favorite Sparks record? Propaganda maybe, but I like a lot of them because then they have a record from the late 70s called Number One in Heaven

that they did with Giorgio Moroder which is all synthesizers and disco soundings like you know sounds like Donna Summers and that stuff and then

Maybe I have a hard time with bands that do that that kind of like that even I don't know if that's true Well the thing is they were never a band band they had bands at times

but it was always pretty much just the brothers, Ron and Russell. And they're probably working right now. They work harder than most people, and they're just always going. I mean, when they first started and they had the massive hit, This Town Ain't Big Enough for the Both of Us in England, they had a rock band. I think Queen opened for them.

It was like they had a thing and somehow had this massive hit that, you know, if you, we would play it in England now, it's like people playing, A classic? Smells Like Teen Spirit

or something. Yeah, yeah. It's, And you went out with them for a while? I went out with them, yeah, well it was funny

because I went out with them because I had become really good friends with Steve McDonald from Red Cross. Yeah. And he was in the Beck band with me.

Right. And then he said, you know, come on, do this tour with me. Red Cross, Steve McDonald from Red Cross. Yeah. And he was in the Beck band with me. Right. And then he said, you know, come on, do this tour with me. Red Cross, that's a good band. Yeah. So I'm on tour with Sparks. We're in London on a layover on our way to Russia. Yeah. And I go see my friend, Brian, Danger Mouse Brian.

And I had become chummy with some of the guys when I did the fill-in a few months before. And the keyboard player whispers in my ear, you know, I left the band today. I don't do it anymore. And then 10 minutes later, Brian says, yeah, the keyboard, you know, by name, he said, left the band today. So I think there was an open bar that night and I said, I'll do it.

Yeah. And I remember flying. We flew to Russia the next morning. I remember walking around. It was crazy. The World Cup was going on and I'm in St. Petersburg. But you don't play keyboard, do you?

You don't. Yeah, so I told myself that when I asked myself what I had said the night before. So I figured it out and the guy who had done it prior to me

was an incredible player. So you just figured out the riffs and the songs. I mean, I know how to play keyboards enough. I know how to play chords and I actually write

on piano a lot these days. Yeah. But, you know, I'm not a... Right, I know how to play keyboards enough. I know how to play chords and I actually write on piano a lot these days. But, you know, I'm not a keyboard. Right, I get it. So you're doing all this stuff and you're still kind of hanging out with John and so how does the I guess we're getting close to the Peppers, aren't we? We're getting close.

Because Gnarls Barkley is what led to so Gnarls, you know, being maybe through a label, whatever, they get, they start opening for the Chili Peppers in the Stadium Arcadium period. Oh, yeah. And this is great for me because I'm friends with them and I know their tour, everyone on it. So everyone's hanging out. Yeah, so I'm, you know, I'm in there. And how did that happen?

There was a cancellation because of a snowstorm. So there was a makeup show on one of the legs and narles decided at the last minute not to go down to mexico yeah but because i'm friends with the chili peppers right you guys are crazy mexico city is the greatest place to play is it fuck you guys yeah i'm gonna go with them i just you know it's the best so i just to hang out yeah so i go and i hadn't seen john in a while or um because i'd been on tour and stuff so we hung out it was fun played then they had to make up the show in Oklahoma City that had been snowed at the beginning but

Gnarls isn't here anymore so they had another person open the show but I'm hanging out nothing to do so I play on stage with them because they at the time on the Stadium Arcadium album there was lots of extra guitar lots of overdubs John was doing. Right, yeah. And, you know, so there were songs that they couldn't really play because there was too much to cover for him alone. So I played a song or two that night, a song, I think. And, yeah, on the flight home from that, I think that was the first time I had flown in to Van Nuys Airport, which is right where I grew up. Private plane?

Yeah. Yeah. So on the plane home, someone had come up with the idea maybe i don't know maybe chad to ask me to come out on the rest of the tour because it was fun you know maybe my my demeanor lightened the mood a bit i don't know but um yeah and then i was able to so you did that to cover the extra guitar parts do some background vocals play some keys so yeah so so that's 2007 so i went out with them the rest of their tour, 07, you know, through the end of it.

And after they finished that tour, they had a very clear two-year hiatus. And, you know, they said to everyone that works with them, don't even, don't talk to us. Really? We're shutting it down for two years. And they honored that. They did, yeah.

Flea went to music school Anthony was a new dad at the time John was always making music and Chad started another band he went on a whole tour in that period so yeah two years nothing and then as that two year period came to a close

the other guys were like alright and John still wasn't up for up for getting back in and doing it so that was into his own shit yeah and he was you know again he's uh he he's one of the you know most amazing he has one of the most amazing work ethics and he's incredible uh like that so yeah he was doing tons of great music, but they weren't done, and they wanted to keep going. And, you know, I was there. So that's when that started, and that was 2009.

July 20th is when Flea asked me. Then we still had, they were still kind of tying up some vacations and stuff. Right. And October, right after I turned 30, is when we played for the first time. And it was crazy. In a rehearsal space? Yeah yeah in the alley out in the valley yeah um which is where they had written blood sugar i think right and uh yeah it was amazing all of a sudden i'm you know in this band what is it were you putting together a touring set no i was joined i joined as a as a full-time member and a writer and right so they were working on new material. Yeah, because they were shut down for two years.

Yeah, so it was new album time. And I hadn't been playing guitar much. I'd been doing keyboards and Narls Barclay. I was writing songs on piano. I was messing around with synthesizers, playing drums, playing guitar. Had you done any of your own solo albums yet? Nothing released, no. I had home recordings.

No, no. In the time the Chili Peppers were in their two-year break, I had sworn off touring with other people because that was an amazing experience. But that's when I was

hitting it like that. I'm in these amazing touring situations and I'm surrounded by incredible people all the time, but I'm kind of miserable. And why is that

because i'm you know i've always wanted to be in my own band or have my own songs and do that and i'm hiding in these other people's projects and but like i said i was sort of living the dream i'm kind of doing bigger and bigger venues yeah yeah but but do you feel like no one really knows who you are yeah and which is you know that's a funny thing because i don't know how much of that i care about i just i want to do i want to write songs and i want to play i want to have a band i've wanted it since i was a kid right but i'm starting to realize more and more and more yeah that i'm hiding from taking that responsibility and i'm sort of you know it's a lot easier to tour with other people sure it's not on you but i'm you know i'm literally saying your part yeah i'm literally saying like this is killing me i gotta stop yeah and that and uh

and um so that's your dark period yeah you know but still kind of getting it done and playing and doing these tours and making friends and and making lasting friendships and but that's when i put dot hacker together and i swore that this is, you know, finally I'm going to do my band. I'm going to stop being a, you know, stop being scared. I'm going to write songs. Yeah. And Clint Walsh from Gnarls' touring band, Eric Gardner from Gnarls' second touring band, and a bass player named Jonathan Hischke that I had met through some friends. I convinced him to move to L.A.

We started Dot Hacker. And that was, you know, and it was only, we named it that because we needed a name because my friend who I met Bob Forrest through, whose sister dated Bob, he was booking the Troubadour. He gave us a show there. Dot Hacker was Eric, the drummer's grandma. Dot Hacker was her name?

Dorothy Hacker. Yeah. So, you know, we, you know, everyone was sort of, you know, is that our name? And then somehow it just stuck. I stuck. I liked calling it the dots. Yeah. But, yes.

And, but I'm still sort of figuring out how to be a singer and a front person and write songs. And, you know, I'd sort of come out of being in the shadows. Do you have a following with that band? I mean, are people getting on board? There's a couple, you know, especially, well, well, so that band was basically put on hold because shortly after I started working. You got the Peppers.

Yeah, but I was able to, and because of the opportunities that Chili Peppers brought to me, I was able to sort of keep that band going the whole time. Yeah. And every time we had a couple months off, I was able to do another.hacker album. We didn't get to tour it.

We played a couple little tours. We opened for Blonde Redhead once. We went to Japan for two shows. But we weren't able to be a band. Right. So, yeah, that was. But, I mean, through being in the Chili Peppers, people have heard it. Not a ton of people.

Right. But that's the funny thing. It's like, again, though. I like your label. Oh, yeah. they're great. Yeah, and that, O-R-G, yeah, Andrew, he's the savior. Like yeah, they sent me a bunch of stuff when they sent me your stuff,

but they have a very eclectic sort of reissue taste. Yeah, yeah, they do great. And they do a really good job with them. Yeah. Like their nice, heavy vinyl sounds like the mix is really good on all this old shit, they're using the real shit. Yeah, they know what they're doing.

Yeah. And that was a funny thing because we had made the first Dot Hacker album two years before I think it came out. And then Steve McDonald again, who I was friends with, he was working at Warner. The Red Cross guy.

Yeah. He was working at Warner Brothers at the time. He played it for a guy down the hall who was at ORG. Yeah. The guy, Andrew, who runs ORG now was kind of assisting this guy, Jeff. And Jeff liked the record.

He knew that I was in the Chili Peppers now and he knew that, you know, if anything happened with the record, you know, it was all in-house, more or less, because they were based

out of Warner Brothers building. So they decided to put the record out. We didn't think that.hacker album would ever come out or there'd be any life for it. I'm in the Chili Peppers now.

Yeah. So then that first album album which I brought for you if you which one let me see this one the first.hacker record yeah

this came out you know right as I sort of right as I this is the first one yeah and that's right as I you know

the first Chili Pepper album I did came out yeah I think I got a later one I don't know if he sent me this one yeah here I brought you all of them this is my whole catalog thanks buddy

and this is your Chili Pepper record the getaway well the two of them there actually those last three those are the two records that are official records and the one in the middle is the collection of extra songs well thanks man so working with those guys

I mean being in that band because you were in that band, did you feel that you were able to sort of carve out your own trip? I mean, they've had several guitarists, but did you feel like you were able to leave your mark on that guy, that band? I hope so. Because when I noticed when you played with them, only a couple of few songs I saw you do,

and they were songs generally that you you know, were recorded, you didn't record with them, but you sound like yourself. That's good, yeah, I mean, that's the thing I was sort of unaware of the whole time, you know, I don't, I learned, I never read the internet anyway, but the beginning, you know, the first tour I did with them, I'm sure there was lots of people talking about, you know, comparing me to John and all this. And, you know, I think I spent probably far too much time thinking about that. And, you know, I did all these tours in my twenties and never able to really develop my own style and play other people's stuff. But I play like I play and, you know, I learned from who I learned from, or I, you know, I learned by playing

along to what I learned to play along to. So there's got to be a style there. Sure. And yeah, I think, but again, now I'm in the Chili Peppers, I'm playing the songs that have been recorded and famous the world over. So I'm trying to be respectful, but I'm trying to, I can't help but just be me. You're right. And so hopefully if this change, John know, John coming back and, you know, me leaving had happened five years ago, half my time in, it probably would have destroyed me. Right. Because it would have confirmed all the things that my mind used to tell me, that I suck and I'm worthless and all those things. But, you know, I think now I've done two.

Worthless and all those things. But, you know, I think now I've done two, we were over a year into writing another album. And so I've done a lot of writing with them. So there's work that hasn't been recorded yet? Yeah, that's just going to go away, I guess. Wow. Which is, you know, that kind of stuff. So they liked writing with you.

Obviously, you know, you guys were doing stuff. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, I think it was, you know, it's a funny thing. I think it was all positive. It comes down to the history that, you know you guys were doing stuff yeah yeah i mean i think it was you know it's a it's a funny thing i think it was it was all positive it comes down to the history that you know sure it's a funny position to be in to to be the person that you know for a second could think that john you know doesn't like oh i should be there you know it's absolutely john's place to be in that band so that's why you know i'm for him. I'm happy that he's back with them. Also, there has to be some element of, so you think the intent is to do a new record with John?

Yeah, I mean, I think that's the thing. No matter what, John and Flea specifically had a musical language and a connection that was made when John was 17, 18. Flea was, I don't even think he was 30 yet you know halal had just died the band hadn't had any major success you know they're very different people and it's a very different time yeah and when i joined it's 2009 there's it's a different time and i think you know everyone in the band you know i couldn't be more grateful for how open they were to me on so many levels.

I mean, that's why there's that B-Sides album for the first, because I brought in a lifetime worth of song ideas. And we went wild. We recorded 50 songs and there was 25, 30 more that didn't get finished. It was crazy. And it was a great, they were very open to me at very trusting i think there was a lot of you know you know a lot of my work or my writing at the time got sort of pushed aside uh-huh you know and and as someone who was trying to write trying to you know do my part yeah i remember it felt a little funny i was sort of like okay my i thought i thought i was doing good work yeah it's it's it's over there you know and uh yeah i think everyone you know flee

the the language that he and i were always trying to you know i think he was trying as hard as possible but you know you'll never i'll never be able to to compete or contend with the history that he and john have you know and yeah and that's interesting so so but but you definitely had you you could read each other on stage. I mean, you knew it was up. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, like I said, if this had happened five years ago, I think it would have been hard for me just temporally to weigh that against what they had. Yeah. But now with double that amount of time, 10 years, two tours, and almost three albums of writing. I'm really proud of what I did with them,

and I feel like we did create something, and we did, you know, and aside from the music, just on a personal level with the guys individually as friends, with everyone in the touring family, you know, I feel like i brought something to the the whole to the sure and you know i'm really proud of that well that's great man and it's and you know it shows me the growth i told you like i know for sure if this happened five years ago i would have just fallen into yourself yeah yeah and it's also it's not acrimonious and you

have things you want to do yeah no i mean yeah you know, you're going to keep all your friends. Do you know? Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Flea and I had lunch a couple of days after. You know, he said, this has never happened before. They've never made a change, a member change, unless there was a tragedy or a, you know,

just a really dark situation or something. Yeah. But, you know, everything is great. I mean, I- How did they tell you? Did they all sit down with you? Yeah. Yeah. They did? They everything is great. I mean, I almost- How did they tell you? Did they all sit down with you? Yeah, yeah, I came over. It was really sweet.

I rode my bike over, because Flea's living really close to me at the moment. Yeah. And yeah, they just said, you know, we'll get right to it. We've decided to ask John to come back to the band. And I just sort of sat there quiet for a second, and I said,

I'm not surprised, you know. And I guess the only thing I could think to say was I wish I could have done something with you guys musically or creatively that would have made this an absolute impossibility but then again like I said I'm in you know that that's yeah that's that's next to impossible why do you say why do you say that you know it doesn't you're not surprised okay well just because I had known that John had reached out to Anthony not too long ago. You know, there was just, it crossed my mind. He was on the periphery.

Yeah, and you know, I hadn't spoken to him, but I saw him at Flea's wedding. He looked like he was in a really great place. And you know, if he's playing guitar again, I think there was a long period where he didn't have much of a relationship with the guitar. Really? What was he playing keyboards lots of synthesizers and programming and he makes you know electronic music and you know he's got incredible at doing that yeah i mean from what i had heard from people he just he had sort of put the guitar down for a while but he's back he's back yeah so yeah i mean i uh well i'm glad you're okay with it man yeah no i you know i i'll

have little moments where at the end of the day as as as funny as it could be in that band sometimes and as you know as as difficult as writing was sometimes uh you know there's nothing like and john said this to me when i joined he said there's nothing like waking up in the morning and coming up with an idea and going and playing it with your friends in a couple hours. And that's true. There's, you know, like I said, when I was 10 or 11, I wanted to be in a band. I wanted to play music with friends. And that's, I still want to do that. Well, you can. Yeah. Well, hopefully. Yeah. So what's the plan? You're going to get the dot hacker guys together? Well, yeah, maybe. I mean, this is pretty fresh news. It's fresh news.

And it's the first time I've had nothing on my calendar since I was a teenager. But you're not freaking out? No, not yet. No. And yeah, no. Because I have an amazing workspace. Where, at your house? No.

I don't call it a studio because I don't really record myself except on little eight track, cassette eight tracks. Right. It's just a warehouse with tons of stuff. And you rent it? Yeah. That's interesting.

So it's just you or is it a space? Yeah, it's just me. I have a friend who does kind of furniture and all kinds of art. Yeah, she's got a store out front and a workshop in the back.

I want to get a space. I want to play more with people, man. Oh, come over. Yeah, I don't know, man. How do you decide? What effects do you lean on the most? What pedals? Oh, I don't know.

I mean, there's so much now. Yeah, I think I have a reputation for having a big pedal board. But I love the most just playing clean, you know, and sort of. Yeah, the Strat plays clean. It's the best. You have a ton of things you can do with just the tone knobs. You can, huh?

Yeah. And I got that weird little 57 Fender Deluxe over there. Yeah, beautiful. What do you play through, though, with the amp? I think I have one of those. You do? I'm not sure if it's the same exact year. It might be a year after.

Yeah. They're good when you crank them all the way up, huh? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get all dirty. Yeah, it's just incredible. That's what you want. Yeah, I have too much stuff, actually.

I'm probably going to have to, yeah. But you play Firebirds, too? I have one, yeah. Just one? Yep, have one. Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I have a bunch. I have a couple.

But, yeah, I've not. Let's see. I have three Firebirds. You like them, I have a bunch. I have a couple, but yeah, I've not, let's see. I have three Firebirds. You like them? I do, yeah. The Firebird 7, Polly Harvey played that on the tour that I did with her, and I would play it for a couple songs, and I sort of fell in love with it there.

What's the sound like? Is it a humbucker, or it's a weird single coil? They're those Gibson mini humbuckers, yeah. And I have a Les Paul in it with a Firebird pickup, which is what Neil Young and then Daniel Amois, I think he based one of his guitars on Neil's, where you put the mini humbucker in the bridge position. Yeah, so you kind of have two really disparate tones.

Between the humbucker and the mini humbucker? Between the, yeah. I thought that Neil played those P90s. Yeah, so it's a P90 in the neck and a Firebird in the bridge with a Bigsby. Wow, that's what that black Neil Young guitar that fucked up Deluxe? Yeah, it's a gold top. I know, yeah. It's a 53 gold top painted black, yeah.

And Lenoir has a 53 that he left gold, but I did some playing with him. For what? Just through friends. The guy I was trying to start a band with right after the PJ Harvey tour, he was good friends with Lenoir, and we just kind of would go over to his house and play for fun, and then he had some dates.

He's got a lot of toys, right? A lot of toys, yeah. And I did some shows up in Canada with him, which is great. And his engineer at the time became a really good friend and he's the one that recorded that first.hacker album. Oh, okay. Didn't Lin Wan do something with some weird techno dude?

Yeah, Venetian Snares. Yeah, I was into that. Who also makes music with Frusciante. Oh, Venetian Snares. He's a Frusciante collaborator? Yep. Like, I tried to listen to that album. I got into it.

I don't know how many times I could listen to it. The Lamoise. Yeah. I heard it once. Yeah. So, all right then, man. So, your folks now, are they okay with your life? Yeah, yeah.

They are, yeah. Now they are, for sure. Yeah? Yeah. And y'all your life? Yeah, yeah. They are, yeah. Now they are, for sure. Yeah? Yeah. And you all get along? Yeah. And when you put your guitar back together that you broke in front of your mom?

Well, they were at the Hall of Fame induction ceremony. They couldn't believe it. So they knew it was that guitar? She knew it was the one you broke? Yeah, yeah. Well, that's nice. You got full circle and they're happy. Absolutely full circle, yeah. Good talking to you got full circle and they're happy absolutely full circle

good talking to you man thank you thanks for having me over yeah thanks for the records yeah there you go folks Josh Klinghoffer former guitarist

for the Red Hot Chili Peppers going on tour with Pearl Jam he's gonna play with those guys a bit but his solo project, Pearl One, will open the show for them on their tour starting March 18th. Many of his solo projects are available wherever you get music.

The solo album, To Be One With You, is there as well. And I don't feel like playing guitar today. I had a guitarist on. Makes me insecure. I'm also tired. But you can go to WTFpod.com slash tour for all of my tour dates and go to PodSwag.com slash WTF for 50% off WTF merch right now. Boomer lives! We'll be right back. delivered with Uber Eats? Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats.

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