WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1092 - Terry Crews

Episode Date: January 27, 2020

Terry Crews survived a lot. He survived a tumultuous upbringing in an alcoholic household. He survived the destruction of his hometown, Flint, Michigan. He survived playing in the NFL. He survived a pornography addiction that sent him to rehab, and his marriage survived it too. And he survived a confrontation with Hollywood agents that he was certain would end his career. Terry tells Marc how his love of art, music and comedy always won out and how projects like Idiocracy, Brooklyn 99 and America’s Got Talent have embedded him in the culture. This episode is sponsored by Dave's Killer Bread and Yo, Is This Racist? Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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fuckadelics what's happening i'm mark maron this is the podcast wtf with me, Mark Maron. Welcome. Welcome to it. I'm getting emails from new people. Welcome, new people. Hang out. Get the hang of it. Introduce yourself to the person next to you. Maybe say your name. How's it going? You're not alone here. This is a relatively safe space. relatively safe space relatively safe space there's the name of my next cd this is a relatively safe space how's everybody all right look a couple of things out of the gate here my guest is terry cruz i recorded it a couple weeks ago i'm not exactly sure the nature of the controversy around America's Got Talent at this juncture in time, but we did not talk about it. So there you go. There's that. I'm off.

I'm going away tomorrow. I'm going to Atlanta to do my final day of shooting on Respect, the Aretha Franklin biopic I'm doing with Marlon Wayans and Jennifer Hudson. And then off to Cleveland for the first day of this small jaunt that me and Delray are doing. That's going to be Cleveland, Ohio at the Agora on January 30th. I believe that's a Thursday. And I'm in Grand Rapids, Michigan at the Fountain Street Church, January 31st. Milwaukee, Wisconsin at the Turner Hall Ballroom on February 1st. Me and Dino are driving to those, you know, we're flying. I'm flying into Cleveland. Hopefully we'll eat at the greenhouse.

If Sawyer can take care of us over there, which I think he, I don't know, it's Thursday night. It's been around a while. How crowded could it be? I love that place. Don't know if I'll get a pig's head, but I always have good food there, and I know Dean will be into it. I haven't talked to him about it. So the next day, we drive out to Grand Rapids, then we drive to Milwaukee, and I fly back home for a bit. Then I'm off to

Orlando, Florida at Hard Rock Live on February 14th. Tampa's doing fine at the Stras. The Stras is going to happen big. Portland, Maine. Going to be there at the Stras. The Stras is going to happen big. Portland, Maine, going to be there at the State Theater February 20th. Providence, Rhode Island, Columbus Theater February 21st. Coming full circle.

Going to finally get some closure with the city where my Toyota Twin Cam 16 was stolen. That red car that I got for a good deal in albuquerque new mexico from a guy that used to be a guitar player in a band named jerry new haven connecticut at college street music hall on february 22nd huntington new york at the paramount february 23rd go to wtfpod.com slash tour for links to all the venues uh there's a couple of things I got to take care. I've not been mentally great. All right. You know, there's problem like I it's a day to day struggle for me to sort of adapt to the facts. Look, we're going to do what we can, but it looks like authoritarianism is taking hold. And that's just a reality. I know many of you are like, well, I don't know if it's going to affect me, really. You can go on thinking that and, you know, wait

it out. Like maybe you think it'll be okay for a few years and maybe you'll feel like it's okay for a few years. And then maybe you'll start saying things like, what happened to that guy used to work here? What happened to that guy? What happened to this whole neighborhood? What happened to those people that you used to see outside down there? What happened to that guy? What happened to this whole neighborhood? What happened to those people that you used to see outside down there? What happened to, you know, it still doesn't affect you, right, though, so it's okay, right? How come there's so many people that are so sad that they can't do the things that make them free? How come, yeah, I know it's going to be a tough adjustment for some of you, some of you an easier adjustment, but I guess you can rationalize it.

What do you do for a living? Hey, man, hey, I'm just a massage therapist. I mean, how's authoritarianism going to affect me? People are probably going to need more massages because they're going to be uptight. Hey, dude, I just do graphic design, man. Hey, man, I'm mostly into fantasy. I'm a comic book artist, you know, into fantasy. You know, I'm a comic book artist and I don't even live on this world. So authoritarianism here, that's, that's okay. Hey, what happened to the guy who I used to work with? That nice fellow, the trans guy, what happened to, what happened to, ah, oh yeah, they're not allowed. Okay. I'm a, I, I install cable. So like, I don't know how authoritarian, it's like, there are new rules, you know, and you gotta, you know, you gotta make sure I don't know how authoritarian it's like there are new rules

you know and you gotta make sure people don't fuck with the boxes to try and get Brazilian television you know there's a lot less channels now so my job is a little easier but and with the new filters on the wifi systems you know everything's a lot simpler

you just gotta make sure people aren't fucking with the boxes that's the only way my job's really changed in a new America. It's like, hey, don't fuck with the boxes. Because if people fuck with the boxes, we take their boxes away. You dig? But other than that, I'm good. Kid's doing great on his team. Yeah, it's not that bad.

Yeah, we don't know what happened to that. He had a friend who was latino and i don't but uh you don't ask questions there's still there was other kids you know that take the place of the don't fuck with the boxes god bless america so the other thing i wanted to say is um chewy.com deserves again not a paid, but what a great fucking company. I was trying to get, you know, to exchange the food that they're not eating for all kidney food because both Monkey and Buster need to be on kidney food. I'm not even sure Buster does anymore.

But I had bought some food that they don't really love. I got good food for both of them. They like it. But I had a lot of leftover foods. I wanted to see if I can exchange a crate. And Chewy was like, this is what they said. And a woman reminded me of this because she wrote to me, Chewy shout out, I'm not famous. And they sent me a sympathy card.

When I asked to return some food after my cat died, they gave me a refund and asked me to donate the food to a cat shelter, which is what they told me. I said, I want to exchange it for the food that they like. And they're like, well, we don't really do that, but I'll give you a refund and just bring that leftover food to a cat shelter. That's a fucking good company, that Chewy. They sell all kinds of shit for your pets, but what a considerate fucking compassionate charitable thing that is. And I feel like a cheap asshole for even asking for my money back why didn't why didn't i just take it to a charity or to a cat shelter and be done with it no i gotta be like hey you know i got these uh you know i got 48

cans of this stuff and uh you know it's 40 i don't have and uh yeah it would be nice if i could just bring it to a shelter you're gonna refund like why didn't i just say you know what don't have. And yeah, it would be nice if I could just bring it to a shelter. You're going to refund. Like, why didn't I just say, you know what? Don't refund it because I'm an asshole. I don't mind helping for 40 bucks. God knows you got to give to people. You got to give people and animals. My primary charities are the Tiger Rescue in North Carolina, the ACLU and Planned Parenthoodood got to help out aclu send them money because it's obviously just going to be litiginous from here on out until the fucking complete takeover of the judiciary is final and it's like hey man it's not my problem you know i'm a science teacher at an elementary school. This authoritarian thing doesn't really affect me.

They changed the textbooks a bit, but not in my department yet. But a lot of them are different. But you know, kids are kids. They'll learn what they're going to learn, right? They'll find it somewhere. It's not like when I was a kid, right? Different times. But I'm all'm all right few kids are gone from the class i had to explain that yeah but what are you gonna say right you know the papers they got to have the whatever huh different time so listen i uh yeah chewy good company and i will give that stuff to a shelter thank you here's the other bit of email that I think I should talk about because, of course, it makes sense. When I was talking about both Anderson Pack and Randall Park bringing me gifts, a couple people wrote, Dear Mark, this is Park Pack from Henry. In episode 1089, you mentioned that Anderson Pack and Randall Park were the only guests to bring you gifts. You mused about the connection AP thing while you were close. Park and Pack are actually Romanized versions of the same last name. It's a Korean name.

Both Pack and Park are Korean. In Anderson's case, a quarter Korean. So that's the connection. Both Korean kids were raised right and know to bring a gift for the host when invited to someone's home or studio. Just thought I'd let you know. Cheers, Henry. Thank you, Henry. I appreciate

that. And by his last name, I'm assuming he is also Korean, but I don't know. Probably. It sounds like it. It's not a bad thing. Now, why am I? See, now all of a sudden, what? I'm in some sort of weird spiral. For what? Thank you, Henry. I appreciate that. one other uh i think i got another one here oh yeah this came out of nowhere and i don't think this person is a professional motivational speaker or anything like that but i took it to heart somehow sometimes things get through folks subject line quick anxiety tip it's the belief that the feeling of anxiety is a bad thing that's holding it in place. Dear Mark, I'm just listening to the opening of your Leo Brad podcast. You're using the word anxiety a lot.

May I respectfully make a wee suggestion? Can I make a suggestion also? Wee. It's not great. I don't love that word. It's not making me anxious, though. Drop the word anxiety. Okay, I don't, it's not great. I don't love that word. It's not making me anxious though. Drop the word anxiety. Okay, I will if you drop the word we.

Drop the word anxiety. Use nerves or nervous instead. It's the belief that the feeling of anxiety is a bad thing that holds it in place. Experiencing nerves before an interview is so normal. Your feelings can't hurt you. The feeling of nerves is coming from the energy of thought. This feeling is bad.

It keeps it in a loop. The feeling comes from non-acceptance of what's simply happening. Life in front of you, sensations in your body, your passing thoughts and feelings. Step back from yourself. See that you can have confidence slash faith in the right word slash sentence question

automatically popping into your head at the right time, just like they always have. This is the clarity you mentioned, that the feeling comes from passing thought energy, not the person or circumstance. You, Mark, are the constant consciousness watching the whole motherfucking miracle unfold before your very eyes. Love your work, Sandy XX. Thank you, Sandy. unfold before your very eyes love your work sandy xx thank you sandy uh i that that that email made me a little nervous it made me a little nervous i'm experiencing nervousness because it seems to make sense and i and i think you're right i'm not anxious i'm just a little nervous we nervous so look Terry

Cruz is an interesting character and he is sort of a character and I had the opportunity to talk to him and I you know I know him from idiocracy was really where I kind of locked into him been in a lot of things but he seems like an and he's got an odd he's got an odd frequency man and I wanted to check it out.

He is the host of America's Got Talent, The Champions, which airs Mondays at 8 p.m., 7 p.m. Central on NBC. He's also on Brooklyn Nine-Nine. The season seven premiere is February 6th on NBC. And he came by, and this was a couple weeks ago, me talking to Terry Crew. marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets

its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need.

And policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. So you look like a guy I can talk to about athletic injury oh yeah i've experienced a few though what i did i'll tell you what i did and you tell me what you think i should do okay i didn't even hurt myself doing an actual squat i was putting and it was on one of those machines that that actually braces the weight for you. It wasn't free weight. But I had the weights, and I put them on the back of my neck. And when I put the weight onto this part of my shoulder, I felt something go.

Yeah. And now I got the shooting pains coming out the center. Oh, my God. Yeah, I've done that. You have? I've done. It's funny because re-racking it, and you're like, oh, my God.. And then all of a sudden I can't move my neck for a long time. So what do you do?

Do I just wait it out? Yeah. Yeah. Should I go to a chiropractor? You can. Did you use chiropractors? I have. I've used everything.

I've probably done everything. But one thing for me, I do a lot of my own little stuff we have. They have these things called power dots. Yeah. Which are incredible called power dots. Yeah. Which are incredible. Power dots. I played in the NFL for seven years. Seven years.

What they used to do is they had this big thing called a stem machine. Yeah. And it would send electrical current. Right. Through your muscles and nerves. Yeah. And what it would do is it kind of deadens the sensation of pain. Because that's all. What you're dealing dealing with you just need to heal right but the nerves are like so you don't ever feel healed right

this power dots now with the new technology because again back when i played it was like you know 20 20 some years ago yeah now they have these things you can use an app yeah you attach these power dots to your neck, and they tell you how to do it. And it sends these currents through. It works. It works. It alleviates your pain,

and it really helps you heal. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. You just need time. Yeah, and it's like, and then when you have to take time, you're like, I can't fucking work out.

But see, but that's the trick. You can work out with the dots. This is the thing, too. Yeah. You can work out with the dots. This is the thing too. Yeah. You're right. What I always tell people is really, is that the whole thing is a trick.

Like when you hurt yourself, the thing is, oh, I hurt, I can't stop. I got to stop working out. Thing is, you just got to do something else. Right. You know what I mean? But you never should stop. It's always like, okay, don't do that.

Right. But do something else. Right, don't do the things that hurt. Exactly. Like if you hurt yourself running, now, okay, don't do that. Right. But do something else. Right, don't do the things that hurt. Exactly. Like if you hurt yourself running, now get on the recumbent bike. Sure, right. But what happens is people go, I can't do it. And they stop.

And then it gets worse. Why does it get worse? Because you don't do anything. Oh, you mean it gets worse for different reasons. You know what I'm saying? You get fat. Well, yeah. But that's the deal.

It's kind of like, it's a trick. But you can never ever, you just have to adjust and move. You got to change the protocol. Oh, now I feel guilty. Now I got to get out there. I see that. I'm going to get out right after we're done here. I'm going to go. You got to listen.

Got to go up the mountain. And wait, this is another thing, man. Don't, the problem is everybody's trying to do like three, four hours. Hey man, do 20 minutes. Sure, man. And I'm old. I tell people do a five minute workout. Like literally wake up, do like three, four hours. Hey, man, do 20 minutes. Sure, man. I tell people to do a five-minute workout. Like literally wake up, do something, that's it.

Stop. Yeah, yeah. Just get active. Just do it. So it just reminded me, you're in the NFL and the no pain thing. Like I just flashed back. Did you ever see that movie? Was it North Dallas 40?

Oh, yeah, back in the day. Right, was it Nick Nolte and Mac Davis? Yeah. I think. And they shoot that guy up. Remember when he gets hit? First of all. His hamstring goes.

You know what? And they pull his helmet off. You think he lost his whole face or something. My time in the NFL made North Dallas 40 look like a Disney movie. Really? It was crazy, man. With the drugs? Everything.

Everything. It was crazy, man. With the drugs? Everything. Everything. I went to, listen, I play with a guy right now

who's serving 42 years fed time while I was playing for dealing drugs. He had a whole, he had a cheerleader on the Rams.

Some guy you played? Yeah, Darryl Henley. Darryl Henley. He was a, I was a rookie in my Ram year and this guy, he decided he was going to be a drug kingpin in the locker room. Yeah.

What, painkillers? No. Oh, this was cocaine. He was dealing with real stuff. You know what I mean? But painkillers were like candy. You know what I mean? That you got from the trainer, right?

Right. And this is another thing. They used to do surgeries on guys that didn't need it because the doctor would get paid per surgery. So it's like, oh, yeah, your knee, you definitely need your knee redone. They were like, oh, you're a footballer. You don't know what's going on.

And now you know now as a grown guy who's been through a lot, the last resort surgery. Exactly. Last resort. You don't even need that stuff. And now people people but they were handing it out like people were getting their legs chopped up every year and the doctor would get paid no i didn't i always refused it i just said i didn't i never took steroids this is another

thing i was on seven six teams in seven years yeah i got cut a lot yeah but there were things i just wouldn't do do you think you got cut because you wouldn't play ball with them on those levels or because your performance was not up to par because you didn't do the drugs? Was it politics or physical? No, it's

a little bit of both. One thing too, I really didn't like football. I mean, I did it because it was my way out. You know what I mean? It was my way out of Flint, Michigan. Well, let's talk about that. So you were born in Flint?

That's right. Born and raised. Well, I mean, obviously now everybody knows Flint because of the horrible crisis with the pipes and the poison and the lead. And, you know, you probably didn't know that was happening. Did you grow up in that world where the those bad pipes were no uh i grew up in the heyday like not first of all the first five years of my life michigan was palo alto but michigan was austin texas for the cars the auto industry was the number one gm was the number one corporation in the world so it was like a new city people were getting paid people world. So it was like a new city.

People were getting paid. People were walking around. It was benefits. People were getting $3,000, $4,000 bonuses for Christmas back in the 1971, 72. And your dad was in the auto business? My father was a foreman at Buick. At Buick. That's right. So he drove a Buick.

Exactly. We got a free Buick every year and all this stuff. But then it hit when it was over. I mean, the gas crisis, the whole deal. Gas crisis in the 70s? Oh, right. By the time I was 19 years old, by the time Star Wars came out, everything started to collapse. And I mean, it happened fast.

Oh, really? Super fast. Your dad lost his job? Oh, well, no. He didn't. But the industry, everything was like, look, really? Super fast. Your dad lost his job? Oh, well, no. He didn't. But the industry, everything was like, look, you got to understand. I try to give this picture to people. Where I grew up, I never saw a foreign car because they used to burn foreign cars in the lots.

Like, if you brought a Toyota. As an example, like a sacrifice, a ritual sacrifice? There used to be smoke billowing in parking lots everywhere because these guys were standing around it burning foreign cars. But just because someone drove one? Just because you drove it. You mean like these were— How dare you? When I bought a Nissan Pathfinder my first year in the NFL, I was viewed as a traitor.

My father almost disowned me. I'm trying to tell you how the mindset is so insane. Wow. It was nuts. But everybody knew it was ending. Like the panic started to set. And you got to understand, they used to trick people and say, oh, no, we're not going to close this factory.

And then over the weekend, they would take out all these machines and close it. And so people got panicked. And all of a sudden, all the factories started to close, but then at the same time, crack was invented. So 1980, by the time 1980 came around, you had a double whammy of no jobs. Yeah, and crack. And crack.

And so you got people who went straight from the factory into the crack game, and it blew up. And at Flint, Michigan, I mean, Michael Moore made a career out of the whole thing. You know what I mean? Just Roger and me back in 1989 when it came out. Of the industry. But, dude, everybody moved away. There were white people.

When I moved into our neighborhood, we were the first black family in our neighborhood. And then by the time it was over, the white flight was serious. I mean, it was all black after I was done. So how many kids did you grow up with? My older brother and a younger sister. And it was a good life for a while. For a minute. And what's your mom do?

What'd she do? She was housewife. Yeah? Yeah. So it was like solid kind of middle class upbringing i mean you know we had our problems my father was alcoholic yeah and very abusive like a bad alcoholic bad but but he got he worked he went to work he went to work but he come home but this but this is another thing you know i like to say this with the guys that worked in the factory yeah you had to kind of give up

your own dream in order to invest in the factory. You give your life to the factory. To Buick. You are literally like, they're going to take care of me. This is my mother. Yeah. It's a compromise you make with yourself for security and insurance and pensions and all that stuff. But these guys were miserable. What was his dream? What did he want to do? He would fix things, and he was like a handyman, and he was trying to be creative. But then he was even in the Army for a minute. But then you could see he was miserable where he was. I don't even know.

My father never really revealed to me what he really wanted to do. He's gone? No, he's here. But to this day, he's gone i just knew no he's here but he never but to this day he's never told me but he but he never really all he did was complain about what was happening at the factory and drink and drink and they all went to the bar it was like right from the factory to the bar and so and then back to work so it was one of those things where you like you didn't you didn't want him to come home or you didn't know what was going to happen? Dude, we heard the car pull up. We ran.

Really? I mean, I didn't want nothing to do with him. He was mad. He would put on some slow Bobby Womack song, start singing, and you're like, oh, shit. It's all about to go down. That was the indicator. It was.

It was like a routine that we knew. Oh, God, no. A sad song. And we ran. But he would beat my mom. Really? Very abusive. Extreme. And this is the thing. He never ran. But he would beat my mom. Really? Very abusive. Extreme.

And this is the thing. He never beat us. Yeah. Because my mother was like, okay, you can beat me. Right. But if you ever beat them, I'll kill you. And they stayed together? Oh, yeah.

My mother died four years ago. And they were still married. It was crazy, dude. Did you ever try to figure that out? I mean, I just threw lots of therapy, did you talk to her about it? But see, this is, you know, this is the thing. I read this book by Rachel Snyder called No Visible Bruises, and it blew me away. And you always think, like, why did she stay?

But the real reason is, is that she was literally trying to save us. Huh. Because she thought if she did leave, that our futures were going to be in damage. So it was like she was a hostage. And I always wondered, because I used to tell her when I was 14, like, let's get out of here. Let's go somewhere.

But she was like, she literally would never leave because she really felt that it would damage our future forever. What do you think in retrospect? I don't know. I look at it now differently. Back then I used to be mad at her. You know what I mean? But now I look at it like she was held hostage.

What could you do? And he's still here. Still here. And you're at peace with him. We have understanding. You know what I mean? It's like you stay there and I'll be over here. Do you let him see your kids?

No. Oh, so that's a situation. Oh, no, no. This is the thing. I try to kind of establish this relationship, the whole thing, but then he'll say, I'm not drinking, I'm not drinking. And I go, I went over there and there's bottles in the garbage. You're still lying.

You're still playing this game. And then he'll call me up and berate me in a drunken thing. You ain't nothing. You're still playing this game. And then he'll call me up and berate me in a drunken thing. Like, you ain't nothing. You ain't never been nothing. Really? Who the fuck you think you are? And you're like,

and this was like three years ago. And you're like, and then so what? Now I just have an assistant that calls him and checks up on him. Right. And just said,

is he dead? Is he alive? Does he need anything? Is the house, is the roof falling in? And he'll say whatever it is and then I'll send, and I make sure I put no money in his hand.

Yeah. I make sure I only get a bill. Right. I send somebody over there to size up whatever's going on and then I pay that. So you'll take care of him but to a degree.

And then he's got a pension still? No. No.im reneged all the pensions oh they did oh that's bad so that's another thing he's mad about he's he's angry he's pissed now how'd you what do your siblings do uh my sister is a judge in uh in detroit no shit and my brother uh he works in in works in Atlanta, but I literally haven't spoken to them in a little while either. Really? Yeah, man. You had to do this for yourself? Yeah. Yeah. Because when my mother died, everybody wanted me to come in and solve all their problems. Because you were the- That was about four and a half years ago. That was the last time I've

talked to them. Oh, really? Your sister too? Everybody. Huh. Yeah. Why were you the guy? You're the middle kid, right? Because I'm, well, I'm the middle guy, but I'm the rich kid. I'm a successful guy. Your sister's a judge.

Yeah, I know. I know. That's what blew me away. Before my mother passed away, I was like, okay, guys, we got to get this together because, you know, everybody's got to contribute. And they were like, no. They were like, okay, guys, we got to get this together because everybody's got to contribute. And they were like, no. They were like, you got it. I was like, no.

I said, first of all, if I got $100. To her convalescence or her? To just the family. Just we got to take care of our parents. She was sick for a while? And she was sick for a long time. She had lymphoma cancer and the whole thing. And we knew something was gonna happen.

But I was like, okay, if I got $100 and you got 10, and if we all give 10%, then okay, I'll give 10, you give one. They were like, no, you got $100, you pay for everything. I was like, no, dude. And I was trying to straighten this shit out with my family way before she passed. And he wouldn't do it

and i was going hey man why are you expecting me to do all this when she listen when she passed away my brother's like hey man i can't afford to go to the funeral man i need some money i'm like dude that's your mother yeah i said well then you ain't going how in the world am i supposed to pay yeah for you to get to the funeral was this the first time you felt like they were taking advantage of you? Oh, no, no, no. But this is the deal, man. I've reached out because I've been famous for 20 years. Yeah.

And I've been doing this, like, reaching out. You work, too. You work and you work and you work. I'm working my ass off, man. I'm like, I got five jobs at the same time. Yeah. But at the same time, I'm like, guys, you got to understand that, you know, there are no accidents the problem

is there's a mentality where people feel like people who are successful yeah they got successful by accident are they lucky you're just lucky you're like you know you like they look at me and they go oh man you're in shape you're just lucky you got that you got the metabolism you know what's fucked up about that is that like that maybe it's usually never true but even if it is true in order to maintain the job it ain't luck you got to show up for work you got to do the thing dude i work out for two hours every morning yeah is that lucky no i know but i mean keep getting work dude protocols must be done you know i mean like you got to maintain yeah whatever you got. I don't care if you have the beautiful house on the block.

If you don't do shit, it's going to get dirty. And it's going to be a mess. It's going to be tall grass. Can't hide it for that long. You got to work at it. But they're like, you just got it. Right, yeah. They think you don't.

And I kept trying to explain that to family members. I tried to get businesses. I was like, guys, please, let's start a family business. Let's get this thing going so that we can support each other. And they were like, I just need two grand. Oh, yeah, I don't want to work. That's your brother? That was my father.

That was my father. I said, dude, you have no pension. I was like, dude, can you just go? I'll set you up with something where you can sell ties or just find something you can sell or whatever. Did you have an idea? I did. I was like, look, set up a business where we can have a bunch of lawnmowers

and you can hire some people around and do lawns or whatever. He was like, I just need, give me $2,500, man. I was like, wow. Couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. You detached with a certain amount of love out of your own to survive emotionally for yourself. Let me tell you, I had a family member. I was like, look, I will pay for a business.

I said, 100%. Yeah. But all I have to say, I said, I have one requirement. I want 51% of the business, and you get 49, and it'll be great. You know what they said? Kiss my ass. I want 50-50. You're like, 50? There's no such thing as a 50-50 business. percent of the business and you get 49 yeah and it'll be great you know what they said kiss my ass i want 50 50 you're like 50 there's no such thing as a 50 50 business how do you make a decision yeah i said you better be glad that's most businesses are 90 10 yeah right 90 10 yeah

and i was like what in the world and i can't work with you i can't do this and i was going what happened to man mark i was going crazy four years ago? It started stressing me out. Dealing with the family. Yeah. I was like, you know what? All of a sudden I learned about the block button. I was like, I can block these numbers. I was like, oh my God. Then nobody was calling. And I was like, it's so peaceful. And then I was like, oh, now I had an assistant. I was like, just call him. Yeah. Yeah. And then I was, then he would relay, and I was like, you know what? Block him. And I got my assistant blocking people.

And then I realized this is for my own good. And all of a sudden, I started thriving simply because I just got these people. Emotionally. Voices out of my life. You were already thriving, but you mean you weren't crazy. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I already have a wife and five kids I had to deal with. And I'm going, hey, man, I can't support you.

You're a grown man. You're grown people. Yeah, yeah. I got a whole family. It's not going to happen. So when you – coming up, though, when you were growing up, I mean, was it – but you say you didn't love football, but what was your original sort of interest? Art.

Art. Painting. Drawing. Right, that's right. I think I read that somewhere. Yeah. So you were a sensitive kind of uh artistic kid i was a totally i'm a right hand a right-brained yeah left left-handed person and i my art talent was my big thing i had art scholarship before i

had a football scholarship i walked on in football team yeah but i had an art scholarship so you drew and you did you paint painting paintingting. Painting and drawing. All through when you were, since you were a kid? My whole, yes. I mean, sculpting. I was into all that. I thought I was going to be a special effects artist. That was my whole thing.

When you were a kid, did you do masks and makeup? I did everything. I was always into anything movie-like. Did you go to art school? I went, no, because art schools weren't paid for by full scholarships so alongside of the painting and whatever music too i was i played the flute i did i can still do it i can still do i did it on agt a couple times i did it it's so good yeah people see my big ass on them with a flute and it's like oh wow but but this is the deal man i've always

been artistic and i always saw myself and you made you made a living doing art at different points i mean starving at different points i mean i when i would get cut from a football team what i would do is go back in the locker room and i would ask the players if they wanted their portraits painted yeah and that's how i survived i I would get $5,000 for a painting of a football player and that would let me go two months until it was time to go back to camp. And so I did lots of players, man. I probably did about 20 players while I was on the Redskins, while I was on the Chargers, the whole thing,

and I would do these paintings. I would actually paint the cover of Game Day, like the little magazine that they had. Oh, yeah, and you'd make money doing that? Let me tell you, I would make a little bit of money, not like crazy money, but it got me enough to survive. And then when I retired, I went to NFL properties, and I remember I was like,

I would love to do something with the NFL. They looked at me, and they were like, great, that's wonderful. He slammed my portfolio down. He was like, no thank you. Why? I don't know. We already got Leroy Neiman? They didn't want, listen, they had Peter Max. They had Leroy Neiman.

But they were like, they were not interested in any players crossing that line. Oh, because you were just like, you're just one of the machines today. Exactly. I mean, that's look, you look at the league. First of all, you got to look at how football players end up. Not good.

Everybody looks at players now. Yeah. But if you look at players, how they end up, man, it's not good. Never good. It's horrifying. It's right there with boxing. It's right there with MMA. Yeah.

You know what I mean? And then with all the concussion stuff, too. Oh, my God, dude. It's right there with boxing. It's right there with MMA. Yeah. You know what I mean? These guys. And then with all the concussion stuff too. Oh my God, dude. It's horrible. And the NFL will right now deny that they have anything involving your brain issues. They're like, that's not us. Right. That's not us.

Yeah, that guy just couldn't take a hit. Hey, man. Come on. Sorry. So you're doing that art when you're a kid. But you were working in some capacity as an artist before the football thing, right? I was doing courtroom sketches for Channel 12. In high school or what?

That was in my first freshman year of college. So you'd be sitting in the courtroom? In the courtroom. Because Flint was crime ridden. And so I did the courtroom sketches for the biggest murder case in Flint history at the time. Six people were murdered in a crack house. Yeah. And there I was.

And I knew a few of the victims. You did? Which was crazy. From where? I mean, they were drug dealers in the neighborhood. Right. And so I knew them. Yeah.

And I was like, oh, man. It was so surreal. So you were in the awkward position where you could actually draw the victims as well. It was crazy. And the guy they accused, it was one guy. He took the rap. But it was six people.

It was like a whole bunch of people that killed him. But at the same time, one guy took the rap, and it was just the most horrible incident ever. I was like, ugh. So you just sit there in the courtroom. So you're that quick at it. You can really kind of just focus it in. But what I did, it was wild because the actual courtroom artist was supposed to there in the courtroom. So you're that quick at it. You can really kind of just focus in. But what I did, it was wild because the actual courtroom artist was supposed to come in from Chicago. He wasn't able to do it.

And I was an intern at TV12, WJRT in Flint, Michigan. And my father got me the job. He was like, you're going to hire my son. He got art ability. And I was like, oh, God. And the guy says, okay okay and i couldn't believe it i was they hired you for what they hired me to do back in the day yeah and before computers you actually drew the backdrops on the news so if they were like i would draw like a chalk line and

police cars and the whole thing and they would go to you know two people murdered today and there would be a my graphic will go behind them So you did that was pre computer and that was you doing that as an intern I was me doing as an intern and and then when so the the courtroom but artists he worked for the TV station Yeah, exactly, but he couldn't make it and then I got it. No do it. I don't know what happened But but whatever it was I was was like, yes. So you're like 19? Exactly. 19 years old, jumped in there, and they were like, oh, man, you got a career at this.

But then I went back to school at Western Michigan University and kept playing football, ended up in the NFL. But in college, did you do art classes and stuff? But this was the deal. I did art classes, but because I was a football player, I could not take all do art classes and stuff but but this was the deal i did art classes but because i was a football player i could not take all the art classes because we had laps you know we had you know you spend three out three hours a day painting but i was at practice so were you also being looked at like he's just you know doing this because it's easy for him to get the elective or no no because i was actually better than my teachers as an artist. I mean, I'm going to tell you, I had a scam. I had a scam. What I would do

was I would create a bunch of paintings all summer. I would create really bad ones and it would go all the way to very, very good ones. And then I would come in in the beginning of the semester and I would say, I would go to the teacher and go, help me with this. I don't know what's going on. And then over the course of the semester, I would keep handing in stuff, knowing it was already done, but acting like I was just doing it. And then he would go, this is so much better. And I was like, you helped me so much. Oh, my God.

Thank you. And I would get an A. Real scam. Oh, it was a big scam. You had it all planned out. But I never got my degree. I never got my degree. You didn't?

Because I couldn't finish. Because you had to go play? I had to my degree. I never got my degree. You didn't? Because I couldn't finish. Because you had to go play? I had to play football. I mean, as a scholarship student, there was no way. I couldn't. I had to give up. They were telling me, just go get a business degree. But I was like, but I'm an artist.

Yeah. And so I actually ended up 12 credits short and never got my degree. Did you have to pay them back for the scholarship? No, I didn't. I mean, when I was done, I was done. So if you have a scholarship, they don't say, no, you got to finish or you're going to be penalized somehow. You know, I've seen where guys had their scholarships taken. Uh, but I, you know, my thing is I was done. So here you are, you're a painter, you're a flute player. Yeah. Yeah. Sweet guy. But you know, but you got this football ability. So you just felt like you had to go to,

if you got drafted, you were going to go? That was my way to make money. So it was a money game for you? Dude, where was I going to make money as an artist? I don't know. That's what I mean. Starving artist is a true term. Back in the courtroom.

Most artists don't make money. Go back to the courtroom. There was no money in that. I mean, it was intern dollars. You know what I mean? So I said, the NFL is my way to make some cash. Right. And so I'm going to do this.

And my whole thing was, I'm going to make sure this happens. Now, I didn't really like football. So it was kind of like, you know, I would do it as hard as I could. Yeah. And so my wife was like, you know what, honey? Maybe hard as i could yeah and so i my wife was like you know what honey maybe you're not that good i was like how long you were married to her before you started yeah we got married in college oh so she's been with you through all the whole time we just celebrated 30 years oh that's right graduation so that's it so so like you go begrudgingly into

football because you can do it right you don't love it and even playing as hard as you can your heart's not in it and you think that showed itself on the field but you gotta understand yeah 70 percent of nfo players hate it i get it they we don't want to play but you play because it's your way out right what's happening now is more people are convinced that they got something else to do as soon as you find out you got something else you can do, you don't go back. Right. Everybody,

they're like people retiring earlier than ever right now. Cause they're like, I got, I got other things to do. But back then it's like boxing, you know, you know what, you know what killed boxing?

Like the heavyweight division, what rap? Yeah. Once people started rapping, they were like, man, I ain't boxing. Yeah.

And the whole hip hop-hop careers yeah really boomed and boxing went down before that was your way out of the hood it had to do with what the ticket out you boxed so you could get out yeah but now i played ball of some kind but now everybody's realizing wait a minute we got other things to do i can't imagine what it like what it what it's i'm not a football i'm not really a sports guy. But I can't – there must be some rush to being on that field though. No. First of all, your life is in your hands.

My highlight in my NFL career, I was knocked out on Monday Night Football. Straight up. And let me tell you something. When I got knocked out – Which game was this? What team were you on? I was on the Chargers and we were playing Indianapolis Colts. I actually put the incident on my Instagram,

and the NFL really hates it because I show myself getting knocked out. But I hit this guy so hard, I knocked myself out. Let me tell you something, Mark. It was the most peaceful feeling I ever felt. Just surrounded by people? It was no pain. I was like, pow! And all of a sudden, you're back in the womb.

Yeah. There's no up. There's no down. You just saw yourself go down? It's like you're in a dream. Yeah. And then you wake up, and you're like, what is happening? I've never been high. I've never been on drugs.

But I know what it's like by getting knocked out on an NFL football field. It's lucky you didn't try to chase that feeling. Oh, dude. But then what happened was I was losing my memory in the game. That game. I looked across the field, and I was looking at the Indianapolis Coast, and I was like, what does the U mean on their helmet? What is that?

And it was the horseshoe. And I'm like, what? Are we in Utica? And all of a sudden, they were like, dude, you're out of it you're concussed i am concussed but i went into the locker room for halftime and then came out played the rest of the game did your memory come back it did but a headache came with it always and that was your high point that was the highlight of your football career it was the peacefulness of being unconscious it was a killer hit man so wait so how many teams like what was the uh what was the

full range of the game uh rams packers chargers how does that work though explain that to me why so many teams and were you you must have been good enough to stay in the game but what happened because i wasn't a star it's one of those things where i was a body and I was always willing yeah I was I couldn't I wouldn't stop you know what I mean and that's another thing too like a lot of times people go I quit but I never I never quit I just kept going yeah I just said you know what this is going and keep getting paid and doing my thing but what happened was I remember when it left me like the desire was done and um I remember going to a workout yeah for the 49ers and this coach threw the ball at me really hard and dislocated my finger

and I was like you know I don't like this anymore like I literally like everything left me I was like I don't want to do this I'm done yeah And I came home, and my wife said, you got to know, when I was dating my wife back in 1988, I told her, we are going to play in the NFL, and we're going to move to LA, and we're going to make movies. Because that was my ultimate dream. But who were you looking to as the inspiration for that? Were there other?

Spike Lee, Robert Townsend. I mean, that was that period. Keenan Ivory Wayans, Hollywood Shuffle. Casper just picking up cameras and making stuff. You know what I mean? That was that independent. I mean, even Michael Moore. The whole Roger and me thing was gigantic

because I was like, oh my God, he's from Flint. He picked up a camera and they made a movie. And our vision was like, man, I'm going to do this. And as an artist, I was like, I can do this. So this is always in your mind? Always. Always. Okay, so when you quit ball... My wife told me. She said, first of all, remember when you said you were going to

move to LA? Let's do it. And so we moved to LA. I mean, we literally didn't know anybody. Had some money saved, though? We used our pension from the NFL, because you get a retirement. And we moved out to LA. And that was in 1997. save though we used our pension from the nfl because you get a retirement right and we said we moved out to la yeah and that was in 1997 and and what how'd you hit the ground running out here well we went broke all that money went and under two years it was gone yeah uh i was prideful i

didn't want to work i was like oh i'm an nfl player and she was like honey we have nothing we were literally i was digging you're prideful you didn't want to work. I was like, oh, I'm an NFL player. And she was like, honey, we have nothing. We were literally, I was digging in. You were prideful, you didn't want to work. Like, what do you mean? What were you holding out for? I mean, oh, you mean get a real job. You didn't want to get a real job.

Yes, yes. You didn't want to take the hit, be the ex-ballplayer at the, you know, pulling the coffee. Because in my mind, I'm like an ex-ballplayer, but nobody cared. Nobody, and I like. You weren't famous enough to be people that know you. Exactly, exactly.

I was famous in my own mind, right? And my wife was like, honey, nobody knows you. Go get a job. And I went to a place called Labor Ready, and they put me to work in a factory, and I was sweeping floors. We had nothing. When I tell you nothing.

Labor Ready. Yeah, yeah, Labor Ready. What is that? It's a place where you go get a job for a day. Like a temp agency. They pay you per day. Okay. And it's manual labor.

See. And I swept the floor of the factory. So you're sitting there going, like, I used to be a footballer. Oh, dude, I was so depressed. Bitter? Were you mad? I was angry. But you didn't start drinking.

You come from drunken people and you didn't drink. It was close. It was close. I had a pornography addiction though. That was another thing. Yeah? At that time? Oh, yeah.

That's like old times pornography. You had to go out and rent the tapes. Oh, the old time. Right, right. Yeah. Watch them over and over again and go to the place and jerk off in the booth. That is the reality. I'm trying to tell you how bad it was.

It was like that. Because to deal with a lot of these issues, I didn't drink, but porn was a definite escape. It's going to come out somewhere. Somewhere. You're lucky it wasn't gambling. Thank God. Or drugs.

The porn was bad enough. Porn is bad. I mean, it's hard for me to, especially now. I mean, you're talking, what, in the late 80s? We're talking 90s. The first time I was ever exposed to porn was 12 and then i've tried to watch every time i could because that's when playboy tv was just out my parents had it on yeah i was exposed to porn pretty like at 13 or 14 right and you're just like from a videotape oh. Oh, yeah, it's great. Dude. It's great. The rush, the whole thing.

It is kind of like that, isn't it? I forgot all my problems instantly. Yeah. And you're like, oh, my God, I got to get this again. And as time goes on, like, it's harder to get when you're younger. And also technology was different. Like, you know, then there was you got to rent the tapes or buy the tapes. But now, like, you're lucky lucky you got under control because it's like

it's hard not to be watching porn my god on the computer dude i got a text wait wait somebody text my phone this girl it's like this picture of a girl with a breast hanging out talking about i'm just sitting alone i'm going how did they get my number how they know like the porn is after you man it's it's chasing you and And I'm like, no way. It's so funny because I even show my wife. I'm like, look, I don't know this person. I don't know what this is. On Instagram, right?

No, this was a text message. Porn is getting through that. Spam. It's spamming messages where they're just messaging guys. They're like, hey, I'm hanging out. What are you doing right now? And I'm like, Oh,

this is, Oh, it's evil, man. But I see through it now. I see through it. It's tricky, man. It's tricky.

That one, you know, sex and porn addiction. But you, but that, so that started early on when you first got here. Never told my wife, never said it was mostly porn.

Not, you know, not hookers and that shit. No, just porn. Nope. just porn nope just porn yeah yeah somebody said something interesting to me uh like my sponsor actually said once that you know when you are compulsive sexually with porn your primary sexual partner is you yeah that's so wild dude so sad dude you know what but i have to say it did there weren't like prostitutes all over, but there was one incident. Yeah. And when I first did my first movie in Vancouver, Canada, I cheated on my wife at a massage parlor.

Oh, yeah. And that, I thought I would never do that. What did they call those, rubbing tugs? That's it. Yeah. Oh, really? That was, okay. That was the one.

Yeah. And I went, how did I do this? Like, because you're in your mind, you're like, I'll never cross that threshold. Or else in your mind, you're just sort of like, yeah, what is it really? It's like, you know. We're not fucking. You justify. You rationalize.

You rationalize. And dude, I never, I promise, I said, I will never tell my wife. Yeah. I will never say anything. Yeah. And that was my dirty little secret for years, for years. A hand job. And I never went back.

I never did it again. A hand job. A hand job, but I never did it again. But I was like, but I knew the dirt. Like, my wife was always like, you ever do anything? Did you ever? And I'm like, and I started arguments so we wouldn't talk about it. That's a destructive part of it, isn't it?

Covering the lie. And it just kept growing. Oh, dude. Covering the lie. Oh, and it just kept growing. Oh, dude. And our marriage imploded around 2010, like early 2010 or late 2009. Yeah. And we call it D-Day. And it was horrifying. I mean, she kicked me out of the house.

She was gone. But how did it culminate? Is that the word I want? Did you get caught or did you just tell her the truth in some fight? I finally told her the truth. I never got caught. But this was the deal. She was like, something's wrong. Between the porn and the guilt.

There's a wall here. You know what I mean? Because you have to keep it. This is the deal. Every man wants intimacy because that's what you're really looking for. Yeah. But porn is an intimacy killer. Sure.

Like, it keeps you, like you said, you're your own sexual partner. Yeah. So nobody's getting in there. Yeah, that's right. And what happened was, dude, she was like, I don't know what's wrong with you. I don't know what's going on. And finally, I was like, I told her. I mean, because I was tired of keeping a secret myself.

Yeah, it mangles your insides. And she was like, what? Now, to me, I'm like, hey, that happened 10 years ago. But to her, it happened two seconds ago. Yeah. And she's like, get out of here. Get out of my house. You're done.

Now, with the porn, though, was it like every day, hours a day kind of trip? No, no. It would be, no. But this is the deal. I spend a lot of time in hotel rooms. Oh, yeah, right. On productions. You have movies, right.

The whole thing. And you're like, ah, I'm done with that. I'm not going to do that again. And then like a couple days later, you're like, oh, boy. You're laying there. What do you mean you're laying there? Hey, man, time. Time and whatever.

But let me tell you, once I quit porn, I got like five jobs, dude. I started designing furniture. I started doing all that. Because it was like, dude, you know all the time you waste? Yeah. It reminded me of people at the bar. If you spend eight hours at the bar every day, you could have a whole nother job. Right.

And also the energy that you release. Yes. Well, you know what they say. Put to better use. The truth is sexual energy is creative energy. It's the same thing. Yes. Well, you know what they say. Put to better use. The truth is sexual energy is creative energy. Sure. It's the same thing. Yeah.

And I started creating businesses, having ideas. I was like, man, where has this been? But it was literally sapping that energy from my life. Well, so what did you do as a system of recovery? Did you do a 12-step thing? I went to rehab, yes. Yeah. I went to rehab.

This place is in Phoenix. So that's sort of, then you have to create, with sex, you have to create your own bottom line, right? Yep. Where, like, because sex is necessary, like food, so you have to kind of call yourself out. Yes. And I guess with porn, it's pretty easy. Like, you know, do not jerk off to that right but there's also other types of sexual acting out that you have to be aware of right dude it was

weird i don't have to say like yeah it was like the colors in the sky were different i mean no absolutely i was just going everything that i knew was different and what i did i we did a 90 day sex fast between me and my wife and that was crazy between the two of us and the therapy and with therapists around and it was like hey listen we're not going to have sex we're just going to

re-date each other and you're going to purify like burn this thing out of you because what's happened is the endorphins and the dopamine rush that comes from that stuff you get hooked on that i know dude and and it's a depression that happens because you're like whoa and i was all over the place it's weird because it's also like this weird stress release thing yeah you know i mean it does really take you out of yourself and also

if you go all the way through and you finish you're like you get the buzz but you also you know, you feel it's like, yeah, it's like a hit of dope or whatever. And then there's guilt. And then you do it to feel better, but then you feel guilty so you feel worse. So to get better, you do it again. Yeah.

And it's a cycle and then you always feel lonely. And you're always drained. You're lonely all the time. When you don't want to fuck who you're always drained you're lonely and you gotta when when you don't want to who you're with you're like i'm just tired oh dude and i already did it three times today you see what i mean and then it ruins it ruins your vision of what sex is and you lose intimacy period right so well i mean i'm not that great at intimacy anyways right right you know like from the beginning of it i mean wait and when you look back at your relationship were you ever good at that i mean was there no but but it didn't help like no right no i get it but the key is this is the thing too you get more as you give more

yeah i know but there's something scary about intimacy to for some reason like were you ever able to track i mean i mean look you grew up in one of those volatile households where, you know, your dad's beating on your mom, and when he comes home, you don't know what the hell to do, so you don't know what's going to happen next. So being vulnerable is risky, right? Very big. First of all, I peed in the bed, like, until I was, like, 14, 15 years old

because I was always, always didn't know what was going to happen. They never hit you, huh? No, you never did. I told you, my mother's like, I'll kill you. There was a couple of times she stabbed him. Really? We would come home to chaotic scenes. Police, blood, knives.

It's that kind of thing. Christmas is horrifying. Christmas is ridiculous. Christmas around the holidays in my house was not a happy time. Yeah. You know what I mean? And it's weird because even now I have a lot of bad memories about Christmas. PTSD.

It's crazy because you just go, oh, that's when the drunks get really, really weird. Yeah, yeah. And man, so there was so much stress. But this is the deal about what I found. And this has broke me down because my wife actually accepted me back. Yeah. Because I thought if she discovered who I really was, she would hate me. But the truth is, because she loved me, she was like, I wanted you just to reveal yourself to me.

She'd been waiting. She'd been waiting. You understand what I'm saying? Like, what I've been running for him was what I actually needed. Yeah. And so, that blew me away, man. Like, then I discovered by being vulnerable was the key to my salvation. It was like my salvation.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. By opening up, by actually revealing, by actually saying, I need this. Because you got to understand, this is where men work. We get into a hole and we're too proud to say, hey man, I need help. So you're stuck in the hole.

But the only way out is to say, help! And scream it. But that's too embarrassing. So people die in the hole, Mark. I know. They die. And I was on my way to dying in the hole. see what i'm saying if you don't die physically you die emotionally so you become bitter and yeah i was working on this joke

recently for my act about uh how like they should have an app or something that translates what angry guys say into to their women into into truth where you're sort of like, you don't fucking love me. And the app says, I love you very much. That's so real. That's a great joke. Because that is actually the truth. It is, right? I said, man, I can't believe the most horrifying things I said

and angry Tyra. Because again, there were times she would come to me about, so what are you doing about it? I didn't want to reveal it so I'd start an argument and say something. And you know it. It's a foulest shit.

You say something foul. You know it in your heart. You know it. That you're fucking doing it. You know it. It's like you have two you's inside. That's crazy, man.

It's like the other one I got is like, you're fucking with my head and that means I feel really close to you right now. It makes me uncomfortable. Dude. But this is the thing.

That's what my therapist said. He said, dude, you have a double life. You split in two. And I was like, this is crazy. You know what? It's weird because it's almost like discovering that, wait a minute, you think that the sun revolves around the earth and then all of a sudden you realize wait a minute we go around the sun like everything is different well yeah once you have a key into that but yeah it just reveals itself to me right now that the reason

we have a split is because when you have to to survive chaos you have to put a personality in place that will do that exactly you know one way or the other and so like the real you gets kind of not put on hold but he gets you know behind the wall of this other thing that is just getting through emotional chaos right the scary part is men we we can compartmentalize like no other i mean mean, that's what we do. We set this little box and nobody can get through. And it's safe. It's our safe spot until it isn't.

But you realize you think you're safe, but actually you're trapped. You know what I mean? Because you're all alone. Now you can't get out. Now you're like, you don't even know a way out. And you think you got a handle on everything. At that point where you can't even get out, you're like, I'm all right. So you're in that hole talking about, I'm good.

Yeah, I'm good. Yeah, you sound good. Fuck you. The Marlboro Man is that guy. That poster, he's walking alone. He's good. He's like, I'm good. But it's interesting, though, the thing that you say about women knowing this other part of this,

because they see it somehow despite our, they see these moments of it or they're like they know that's you and now they're waiting you know like are you gonna do it or what you're not gonna do it they already know but you get but you obviously kind of stepped up you got five kids you're a good father and everything were you brought up with the religion i was uh but my mother was super religious super religious when i was a kid i was not allowed to play sports yeah not allowed to go to the movies listen to secular music it was a thing called the church of god and christ oh not jehovah no we were a pentecostal where it was a lot of you know what they call holy rollers where it was a lot of really emotional singing dancing, people running through the aisles. Speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues, a lot of that stuff. So what happened was everything was fear-based.

Everything was shame-based. Everything was like, why are you thinking that? And he's like, I don't, I'm a kid. I don't know. And so it's shame. It's shame, shame, shame. And that was the way to keep people in control. So you just shame them.

It's like, hey, man, shame on you for even thinking that way. And if you do that, you're going to go to hell. And I was like, and this was the crazy thing is. And then you internalize it, and that's your home base is shame. You shame yourself. You live in it. There were people in our church who would put their TV in the windowsill and watch TV through the windowsill and then go to church and say,

I don't have a TV in my house. And you're like, what? That's crazy. See, that's the level of religiosity and the trap of what this thing is. And you're like, wait a minute. Because we would say, they would say, you can't go to the movies.

But we watch the same movie on TV. And they would go, well, that's different. Going to the movies will get you to hell. I'm like, what are you talking about? And I always had these questions and I had nothing but questions and they were like shut up man sit down shut up and your mom stayed in that church my mother's my mother eventually left when we were in high school yeah and that's when I started playing high playing football again and kind of getting out of that yeah but it's that religiosity was still there you know what I mean and then let me tell

you something man i still i believe in high power yeah yeah i i don't believe i made myself that's my thing yeah but all this other stuff the problem is all this other stuff the shame thing all this people had to add a whole bunch of junk and but you gotta understand with addiction shame fuels addiction shame feels a lot of shit no doubt you see what i'm saying it totally fueled like pornography you're like no i'll never do it again i'll never do it again oh boy oh my god that's because it's like it's like a thing i saw in the movie the other night and i forgot about it but it's sort of true is that like the gambling addict is addicted to losing that's it so right so like and it's like you sit there and you try to work that in your brain is

that like if shame is your comfort zone yeah if your comfort zone is uncomfortable and horrible and I hate myself, you're only going to find a way to get there. Even when you know in your mind that you want to feel good and you want to do the right thing, it's like you might be able to do that, but it feels so fucking uncomfortable. It's just like you're going to fuck yourself eventually. You know, it's like putting a tuxedo on a pig. Yeah. The pig's going to go back going to fuck yourself eventually. You know, it's like putting a tuxedo on a pig. Yeah. The pig's going to go back to the slot. Right. If you feel like you're a pig, you can't help but go to your level of water.

A lot of pigs in tuxedos in this town. You know what I'm saying? But as soon as you realize you're not a pig, now you start to step out. But that takes, you got to forgive yourself. You got to process shit. You got to make the amends. You know, you got to step out. But that takes, you got to forgive yourself. You got to process shit. You got to make the amends. You know, you got to clean your side of the street, right? Amen.

But we're in a shame culture right now. Amen. You can't say nothing without getting shamed now. Now it's like, oh, shame on you. Listen, that's the way people feel. People feel like there's nothing wrong with shaming other people. It's like, literally, this is my job to make sure you know how to be politically correct. So it's shaming everybody.

You shouldn't be doing this. What are you doing? Listen, man, I went to Shanghai for the holiday. Okay? Shanghai, China. I always wanted to go. You've never been there? I've never been.

Great. Always wanted to go. Good time? It was fantastic. Why that place? Because I wanted to go somewhere that was totally off the grid. Like east-west. I had never been that far east.

Yeah. You went with the family? Went with the family. I took them all. But I was ashamed. People were like, what are you doing in China? You know what they're doing to the Muslims. You know what they're doing to Hong Kong.

You know what they're doing. I'm going, it caused a controversy. And I'm sitting there like, wait a minute. So, okay, first of all i'm in china but apple's here too nike's here too like so you're never gonna use your iphone again yeah you know i mean i was like why why and why are they taking all the anger on you because they feel powerless against nike and apple yeah and you're just a guy on vacation i'm just a guy but you can be made an example of exactly and that and that's a shame him. Shame him.

Shame on you. And I'm going, hey, man. First of all, and this is Americans who 30 years ago, if I'd have been trying to do the things I'm doing right now, I'd have been lynched. I'm just trying to tell you. Hey, man, when I was a kid, we would go down south. We couldn't stop.

We would put a whole chicken, cooked chicken in the trunk and a Hills Brothers coffee can because when we got hungry, we just ripped off a piece of chicken and we had to pee. We peed in the Hills Brothers coffee can because we knew it wasn't safe for us to stop. No restaurants, no hotels. Right. So stop coming to me about, oh, my God, human rights abuses.

I'm like, wait, man, this is America. Yeah. Wait a minute. Do you understand what this country is? Right. You're not getting any shame from the black community? Oh, I've been shamed by the black community, big time. I've been viewed as a sellout.

People say, Goose, you smiling on TV? Yeah. Hey man, well, I'm happy. Oh, you gonna be the happy negro, huh? Really? You gonna shuck for the man, Coonan? And I'm going, okay, wow. So we can't be happy. So I must be an angry black man at all times.

So unless I'm not standing for the cause. And so you go, oh, okay. And then you realize, dude, this is like, what can I say, man? It's the same thing like you said about your family. At some point you got to create some space for yourself. Exactly. Right? Exactly.

So when did the first gig start happening? Like, when did you get the first TV gig? First of all, I was bouncing. I worked my way from the sweeping floors to bouncing. And a friend of mine invited me. Bouncing, of course. Yeah, exactly. A friend of mine invited me to an audition first.

And he was like, dude, you got a good look. Now, people have been coming up to me a lot, like, dude, you got a good look. Now, people have been coming up to me a lot, like, dude, you got a good look. You should try acting. I was like, oh, whatever, man. I was trying to get behind the scenes. A friend of mine

invited me to this thing. It was a show called Battle Dome, which was like American gladiators on steroids. We were putting people in the hospital. The first thing I ever auditioned for,

I got. Because it was kind of football, you know, like. It was light, actually. So it was like a reality, you know, like. It was like, actually. So it was like a reality, like the early reality sports show. Yes, yes. But we were, it was called, you know, we were like, our logline was Battle Dome.

Real warriors, real pain. And so we were putting in the people in the hospital, man. People were getting knocked out on the show. People were dislocating arms, legs. And the show only went two years. I got sued three times. Oh my God.

By different contestants. Cause they were like, he put me in the hospital. There was no rules? There was no, was it like Wild West back then? Well, it was really crazy. It was crazy. And they wanted, it was that kind of thing.

They wanted that until they couldn't handle it. And then I, first movie i ever auditioned for was a movie called the sixth day with arnold schwarzenegger yeah and i got that doing what and i was like a a bad guy in the movie me michael rucker a bunch of people and we were trying to kill arnold and it was kind of a whack movie it was it was all right but you had some lines but that's the movie i went to vancouver to do it ended up in a massage parlor. But that was my first year because, again, you get imposter syndrome too. 2000.

Yeah, you get imposter syndrome. You're like, I don't know what I'm doing. I shouldn't be here. Yeah, yeah. Oh, interesting. Back to stress. You're like, I don't deserve this. I'm like, this is like.

Like, I don't even, I'm not even an actor. I didn't go to acting school. What a piece of shit, huh? Yes. And then you go back into some dirty stuff. You know what I mean? I guess that's true. Yeah, I guess it always sort of goes to that.

Unless it's like, yeah. It's weird, though. Because you often wonder, like, what if I had nobody to judge myself against? Like, what if it was just you alone? You had no wife and you had no kids. Yeah. Would you still feel like an asshole? No.

No. In fact, first of all, the only way you could tell you're an asshole is by other people, is your relationship to other people. And you kinda need it, right? But first of all, if you ever see somebody all by themself, oh, they're the biggest asshole. If they stay that way.

Yeah. Either they're sad or they're an asshole. There's nobody to really tell you. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Either it's a sad story or it's an angry story. Oh, it's bad. But, all right.

So then it just starts out then. And then you start going, right? But you're doing a lot of these kind of, these roles that fit your physique. At first. It's the way you look. It's like one time, it's so funny. I had Danny Trejo on my show.

Yeah. And like, you know, he played my sponsor, my AA sponsor. I played his AA sponsor. And we had a lot of dialogue, right? And he's like, he can't get the lines. He's like, man, this is more dialogue than I've had in every movie I've ever done in the last 10 years. And he looks at me and he goes, they hired me for my face. Well, you know, they were trying to put me in that.

Yeah, right. For years. At first it was bad guys and big brutes. But I wanted to be funny because you got to understand, even in one of my stress relievers was always been comedy. Yeah. And I mean being funny in a locker room, being funny at home. I was, you know, at school.

Yeah. I was always cracking jokes. Sure. That's how people who grow up in chaos make things easier. That's the way. Dude, I mean, if you look at all the comedians, it's got to be, you know, the funniest guys come from the most intense pain. Did you have to make your dad laugh?

I did. Yeah. I did. Yeah, look at that nigga right there. He's funny. And that was the thing just to get him off me. Right. Get him off me right get him off me stop just you know you're gonna get before you start hitting people and getting hitting my mother

let's let's laugh yeah yeah it was crazy look at me yeah yeah i would do the robot for the whole family you know what i mean he'd be like oh but then what happened was i was doing this these movies and stuff and all of a sudden my first first funny role was Friday After Next with Ice Cube. And the willingness to go that far in that movie. And then all of a sudden, I started to get noticed for comedy stuff. Right, right. And it just kept going. Right.

You know, white chicks hit big. And I did a movie called Malibu's Most Wanted. And the director was like, I was in the background. The director was like, hey, man, that him up here pull him up and that's what happened it was like people were like you're big but you're funny and you got weird you got weird things they never saw anything like that like I'll be honest with you muscle and comedy didn't mix yeah you know Joe Piscopo tried it and it was like okay he's too muscular like it's a little weird it was weird but see when i did it i was kind of lampooning what masculinity was so

i mean even from old spice all the way up and i was like comedy is going to be my thing and uh i love it man the old spice commercials are weird man oh weird but hilarious like and i didn't really like i remember yours and and then I saw Dion. He's on Dion Cole's on them now. Yeah, yeah. And I was watching a couple of these commercials, because I do comedy, too, and I saw them over at the comedy store. I'm like, what the fuck do those commercials mean?

Is it a black thing? Am I missing something? He's like, no, dude. This is weird. It's weird. It's weird. That's the thing. You never forgot it.

No, I didn't. It burns in your memory. But I felt like I was missing some cultural cue. Yeah, you're like, am I outta here, what's going on? I'm still not gonna use Old Spice, but you know. The commercial sticks with you. No, that was the whole point. I'm working with Marlon right now, he's a funny guy.

Marlon Wayans. The Wayans family. You love them? I love those guys, man. They, I mean, they're responsible for so much comedy, so many people getting their shots. I mean, they're a billion dollar, you know, movie family.

You know what I mean? They're like the Jacksons of comedy. Yeah. And, you know, they were the gatekeepers for me, and they let me in. How many movies did you do with them? Well, I did just White Chicks, but we've got Damon. I did a Damon show, my wife and kids and the whole thing. But some of the biggest things that I've ever done that went viral was from him.

And then him and Adam Sandler gave me a career. Oh, yeah? Like they gave me a start, but Sandler, I've done over seven. What, The Longest Yard? Yeah, Longest Yard, Click, The Ridiculous Six. Sandy Wexler. I mean, I've done like seven movies with him. Yeah. You know what I mean?

He's my man. He's always called me up and like, yo, dude, come on, man. We got another one. We did Blended in South Africa. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's always got something funny for me. Oh, that's nice. Oh, it's good.

But Everybody Hates Chris, that was the real, that dug you in, right? Got you your health insurance and kept it. Well, the thing is, my wife, again, because I wanted to do movies. Back in the day, I was like, I'm just going to be a movie star. She was like, honey, honey, honey, we need to get this money. She was like, you got to do TV. We got to do TV. TV is the one.

And how many kids you got at that point? At that point, it was four. Yeah. And she was like, we got to do television. And at the time, television wasn't what it was. You know what I mean? It was kind of like, you could end up

on a little wax sitcom and be like, ugh. But Everybody Hates Chris was like, But you could make more money then. But that was the thing,

you could make the money. And what was wild is, I did Longest Yard and Chris Rock, we were promoting the movie. He said, man, I got something for you.

Because he was watching me the whole time. Yeah. And I get this script in the mail, Everybody Hates chris and i read the pilot and it was hilarious yeah and i said holy god this is this shit right here and you could play a grown man yeah i was like a father and a whole real character emotional and it wasn't and it wasn't degrading you know what i mean like the key on tv yeah you just don't want to be degrading because most of it at the time yeah you you felt yeah you you had to sell a little bit of your heart right

right you know what i mean right and that wasn't that wasn't the deal there no everybody's chris was classic yeah classic to this day it's still one of the best things out there yeah i know i think you're right i mean i think and people really like the show. Yeah. I think I always knew who you were, but when I saw Idiocracy, that was too much, man. Oh, that was wild. You know, I just did White Chicks. And you got to understand, when Mike Judge, when I auditioned for that thing,

I went in for Mary Vanu, I auditioned for that sucker probably seven, eight times. For Idiocracy? For Idiocracy. Yeah. But what was happening is they had big big names but nobody knew who i was but i knew this religious stuff right you know what i mean that pentecostal well yeah but but the thing is that he is a scammer yeah and the whole deal

is and i knew so many preachers like that where they could do what we need we need to come through and you need to be who you want to be and i see what i just said meant nothing yeah but because it was enthusiastic and emotional yeah everybody would get but i said mike judge was like that is it and i got the part and little did we know it would be a classic. Prophetic? We had no idea. And you know, it failed. It had some prophecy to it, too. It was only in two theaters.

No, I know. It was failed miserably. I thought it was going to be my big hit movie, and I was so depressed. They were like, hey, what happened to that movie you did? I was like, I don't know. It's a great movie. I think it would have been even better with a little more money. Yeah, we had nothing.

We did nothing. Because the conceit of it had nothing. We did nothing. Because the conceit of it was great. It was amazing. But Mike has always been like that. No, I know. Think about it. Everything Mike does, it's later. Yeah, it's great.

You get it later. Office space. All of it. Legendary. All of it. No, I thought, and also that in terms of how society, as a satire of culture, I mean, it proved to be very foretelling. It was. You know, like- When Time Magazine called me- Dax Shepard, baiting. you know as a satire of culture i mean it proved to be very foretelling it was you know like when

time magazine jack shepherd baiting wait what i remember during the election of between trump and hillary and people they were like yo mama no yo mama i was like holy this is idiocracy they were literally talking about people's mothers yeah in the. Yeah, crazy. I was like, this is crazy. It's crazy, man. But yeah, but that's the intelligence of Judge. But I love that guy you play. That was great. Camacho.

Yeah, Camacho. But then you just like, it seems like you sort of do runs in all these different shows. Like you've had like a lot of different things like, you know, on TV where you do a few episodes. Are We There Yet? What is that one? That was, I do a few episodes sometimes are we there yet what is that one that was i did a hundred episodes of are we there yet which was a tv show based on ice cubes movie are we there yet and it failed miserably it was in that tyler perry model where you do a hundred to get the syndication so that was the deal i moved to Connecticut. We shot them all in Connecticut. We shot three a week.

Yeah. Did it go into syndication? Oh, it did, but it was nothing. Dude, you're talking about- Sounds like a lot of work. Oh, it was, but it was my chance. Right. It was like I could be the main guy, but it was horrible.

Do you even have a real audience? No, no, but it was a huge disappointment. They had a laugh track? It was a laugh track all over. In fact, while we were doing it, TBS stopped airing it while we were shooting it. Yeah. And it was just like abandoned.

But that model didn't hold, did it? Oh, no. Because they did it with Charlie Sheen too. And it's just like they really, I think they underestimated people's, it's hard to underestimate people's intelligence in this culture. Yes, it is. Because you just assume they're stupid.

But they did. They weren't that stupid. No, no. And that's the deal. I remember saying, hey, this joke could be better. And they were like, looking at me like, dude, what are you talking about? What are you talking about? Go back to work. I was like, oh my God. Dude, I'm going to tell you how bad it was. I wanted to go do Expendables 2.

I didn't even know there were three Expendables. I know. I know. There were three. I wanted to go do Expendables 2. They promised me I could. I got in there, and they were like, no, you can't do it now because you're doing Are We There Yet? I said, okay.

Yeah. Check it out. I'll do 10 episodes for free if you let me go do Expendables. And they were like, okay. Right. So I ended up shooting 10 episodes of Are We There Yet? for free so that I could go do my movie because I knew that was my only way back into my career.

You know what I mean? Because no one's watching the show. So I said, if I do Expendables 2, at least I can get some heat. Because you got to keep the fire. It's almost like keeping a flame. Your whole career is this little fire that you just don't want to go out. It's like a little wick. And it got real dim.

Well, the Expendables is a whole cast of those people, dim wicks. Yeah. Look, you said it. I didn't. I'm going to put it on a t-shirt. That was a reigniting. Is this so real? The reigniting of quite a few dim wicks.

Exactly. And then all of a sudden few dim wicks. Exactly. And then all of a sudden, it just went poof. You know what I mean? The light of many dim wicks is bright. It's very, very expendable, the dim wicks. But you did, it must have been kind of exciting to work with those guys. Oh, man.

First of all, come on. Hey, now. Eric Roberts, Mickey. Hey. Right? Right then. I mean, Stallone. Come on, man. First of all, come on. Hey. Eric Roberts, Mickey. Hey. Right? Right then. I mean, Stallone. Come on, man. Stallone.

I mean, you grew up with that shit, right? It was amazing. But a little bit. I am, I have to say, too, on top of everything, I'm the most grateful man in this town to be doing what I'm doing, dude. Okay, man. I've had bad jobs. I swept floors.

You see what I mean? People have watched you have bad jobs. Yeah. They've seen it. They've seen it. So, I mean, is it really that bad? No. First of all, what I thought,

when you think something's going to kill you, it doesn't. Usually, yeah. You know what I mean? It's like people aren't really thinking about you. Everybody got their own bills. They got their own thing. That's usually true.

You know what I mean? I started to put too much on it. You know, you're like, oh, no, if we don't do this thing, it's all perfect. Hey, man, people don't care. It goes away, dude. It goes away fast. People only remember your success. Yeah, or if you really fail big.

Or if you do something corrupt. You're stupid, yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So, you know. Infamy. That's it. Either you're famous or you're infamous.

That's it. Like, you know, if you're infamous that's it like you know if you're Harvey Weinstein yeah you will be infamous can you imagine all the movies he's ruined there's a pig in a tuxedo

just think about think about all the memories it's like Bill Cosby I love the Cosby show man and I can't watch it well I mean it's gone

or the records or the records or anything it's gone comedy records some guy did a funny joke the other night. His name's Taylor.

I can't remember his last name. He's a comic. He goes, he says, I've been doing comedy for about seven years. It's going really well. I'm making more money doing comedy than Bill Cosby. That is wrong. That's real, though. That hurts.

It does, man. That hurts, man. Good joke. I can't remember. why can't i remember people's last name yeah so but what about this this gig you got now seems like a pretty sweet gig hey i like it i decided to start hosting uh you know a lot of people are doing that yeah hosted millionaire yeah to learn my way through yeah and uh because i'm not a comedian but i love it's so funny though because you've done all these bits on like Portlandia,

Drunk History, you know like you did Arrested Development. I mean you're a known guy but hosting is a comfortable gig it seems for some people who can do it. I love it. First of all I would do AGT for free. It's that good because you gotta understand it's the biggest talent show

in the world and I'm gonna take you back Mark. I hosted my high school talent show in the world. And I'm going to take you back, Mark. I hosted my high school talent show because my mother wouldn't allow me to perform in it. Really? Because she was religious. Right. Is that true, though? That's true.

Why would I doubt that? She would not allow. She was like, you ain't going to be up there shaking your ass with no people. And then I was like, okay. Because it's evil? Right. Sinning. Because it's sinning.

And I said, but can I host it? What is the sin exactly? Pride? I don't know. Okay. I don't know. It's just, yeah. You know what Because it's sinning. And I said, but can I host it? What is the sin exactly? Pride? I don't know. Okay. I don't know. It's just, yeah. You know what?

That's it. Like, you're going to get all this light, and the light should be on Jesus. Right. And it's like, okay, well, you know what? Yeah. Nobody can win that game. But my thing was, let me host it. And she was like, damn it.

Okay. And she let me host it. And so I always wanted to do this. I always wanted to be this personality. But another thing is that AGT satisfies this need for the crowd. For one, you only play football for the audience. You literally, I mean, it's a lot of pain. But that cheers, those whole things, it's very addictive.

Like most comedians are addicted to the crowd. They're addicted to what that gives. It's that energy. You don't know what's going to happen. It might win. You might lose. But it's a bit of a gambler. You know what I mean?

I feel that way doing AGT. You don't know what's going to happen, especially when it's live. You're hosting. They give you the keys to NBC for two hours. And it's in your hands. Anything can happen. You drive. It's in your hands. Yeah. Anything can happen. You drive.

It's satisfying when it goes well, but there's some times when it's like, oh, man, this thing could crash hard. And also for some,

it's inspirational to people, that particular thing. It's beautiful. And it's like, even with football, like I knew a guy who I used to work with, Frank Santorelli,

I used to do a show with him, and he, you know, he's a football fan. I told him, I said, I don't really watch sports at all. And he goes, well, then how do you feel alive? But you know what, Mark? I don't watch sports either.

I know, but like what you're saying about football and about the audience and like for whatever it's worth, it does give people, you know, a sort of connection and something to be excited about. And I think America's Got Talent, it's inspiring to people because it makes people, whether they can or not, think that they can use their talent and be something. It's made superstars.

It literally turns people into superstars overnight. First of all – How many of them hold on to it? I don't – there's a few. I mean, there's a few. First of all, Terry F of them hold on to it? There's a few. First of all, Terry Fader. He's huge in Vegas. Terry Fader makes millions of dollars a year.

He was a puppeteer. He's a ventriloquist. He's still in Vegas making hundreds of millions of bucks. No, she was on Idol. But she didn't win it. She didn't win Idol. I'm working with her now. She's something, huh? We did Sandy Wexler together. Yeah.

I've got to work with a lot of great people. But these kind of shows, I mean, we need them. We need them. I mean, where else can you get a 70-year-old singer or a 6-year-old singer or a comedian? And it kind of reminds me of Ed Sullivan. Yeah, for sure. It's a modern-day Ed Sullivan. Yeah, except I think Ed Sullivan was dealing with professional performers.

Right. But you've got to understand, America wants blood. America wants to watch you fail. I know. They want to see it all happen in real time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They don't. Ooh.

Yeah, yes. Ooh. First of all, if it went perfect, it's boring. I know. They want to see. Oh, he fell. Do people you think fail on purpose sometimes? I think so.

You know what? No. They don't got the shame disease? I don't. They go out there and fuck it up to be infamous? Because if you do it, if you fail on purpose, you won't even make the edit. You know what I'm saying? I mean, you still got to get edit.

You still got to make it to the shot. If you're going to fail on purpose, you better be good at it. Yeah, yeah. Like, you can kind of see what's manufactured. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And people are like, eh. Uh-huh. Believe me, I'm back there with the acts.

Yeah. And I literally am there with them the whole time. And we've had a couple people who come in there, and you're like, okay, they're coming to set. So this is a setup. Yeah. And it never makes it. Yeah. So as part of your evolution to the kind of like,

so you hit the wall, what was it, did you say, 2010? Yeah. With everything else. And then you also were one of the only few, very few men that came out to sort of address me too from your point of view. That's it. You know, that the position,

because I talked about it with my producer, remembering what you did and what you copped to, that position, abuse of power in that situation where the power dynamic is imbalanced, it's not gender specific. Hey, man. It doesn't have to be. You got to understand too, when I did that-

What happened? There were a ton of men who turned on me. They were like, what the hell? You're too big. Well, what happened? Well, this agent, Adam Bennett, who was the head of the motion picture department at William Morris Endeavor. Yeah.

I'm at a party with me and my wife. Yeah. And he comes up to me and he grabs my balls in front of your wife, in front of my wife, everything. And he's like, I'm like, yo, I push him back. Yeah. I'm like, what are you doing, man? And he starts laughing. He comes back at me again. And I'm like, yo, I push him back again. Yeah. And his wife is there too. And we're in this circle of packed white people. Yeah. Okay, rich white people at a party.

Yeah. And I'm like, and I'm looking around, and I'm going to knock this dude into another world. Yeah. But my wife, years early, she's seen me throw people over her head before. Oh, really? She made me promise. She said Terry you gotta understand if you ever get

baited everything you gotta promise me you're not gonna go get violent because you're gonna get shot or you're gonna get put in jail and we'll lose everything. Again my wife is smart. She sees all the stuff before it happens because she knows somebody's going to get me.

Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And at that moment, I looked at her, and she looked at me like. Right. And we walked. Now, you got to understand, Mark. You had to eat that.

I felt like the biggest failure of all time. I was going to do a Terminator. I literally was going to drive back through the club in the car. So it insulted everything you were made of. Hey, man. Yeah. Hey, man. Yeah.

I just let this white dude get away with that. Yeah. Like, and he was laughing. And he's just thinking like, huh. And he's at my agency. And I went, no, you got to understand. People were like thinking I kept this a secret. I called everybody the next day.

The next day, I went right to the agency like, hey, man, this dude did this. And they were like, oh, oh, whoa, we're going to do something about it. Oh, my God, yeah. And I was like, what are y'all doing about this dude? He was high. He was on something.

I don't know what was going on. Was it a come on, you think, or what? I have no idea. He thought it was, I don't know what he thought. He broke that boundary like, I got you. And he was like, what you gonna do about it? And that's what their whole

attitude was. I had to sit down with Ari Emanuel, the head of the agency. I'm like, hey man. I said, first of all, you demanded Mel Gibson be kicked out of Hollywood for anti-Semitic remarks, but this dude assaulted me. So what you going to do with your boy?

Yeah. It's different, Terry. I was like, what? What does that mean? Yeah. What does that mean? Well, I know you're Jewish, but is it different because I'm black? Yeah.

What does that mean? Yeah. And he was like, Terry, do what you got to do. Because the dude was a partner. Yeah. And he's like, they ain't going to do shit. Make your move, bro. I said, okay.

So I spent $400,000 of my own money. And I said, you know what? I'll spend a million dollars to win $1. That was the moment I dropped the mic and I said, this is it. You sued him? I sued him. Yes. We went straight to court. And then we had all these little meetings and all this stuff like, well, Terry, what do you want?

I said, I want you gone. I said, I don't want any money. I said, you gotta go. You cannot go. You can't molest somebody and go to work the next day. And dude, you gotta understand, I gave them months to work this out. Months. And when this whole

Harvey Weinstein thing started happening, I got PTSD. I snapped. I was on the set of Brooklyn Nine-Nine and I started tweeting. thing started happening, I got PTSD. I snapped. I was on the set of Brooklyn Nine-Nine, and I started tweeting. And you remember, I didn't even name the guy. I was like, this thing happened to me. And people were like, what? Terry Crews?

I was like, dude, it was right there. And I broke it all the way down in all these tweets. And then I shut my phone down, and I was peace you understand it was like a snap like a literally i can only imagine it was like a spring went and you just got and i could i felt the rush i felt it was like i was right back there yeah and i remember having to eat that and getting in the car and going home and i never recovered yeah until i i sent them tweets it was like pow i'm done and then what happened and then my world was different my world changed everybody was like what you know men were mad they were like you was what it was there was some previous relationship between y'all i mean people, people were making up shit. People were doing all that stuff.

And then, first of all, I never revealed them. And then I started finding out what Hollywood was like. And Hollywood has this game where they play like, oh, everyone's peace and diversity and the whole thing until it really gets down to it.

Until you got a mad black man. Exactly. You know what I mean? Demands and accusations. I didn't even make a demand. I was just like, yo, this dude did this. And they were like, uh, that's impossible. You're too big. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, you know, it was wild because

Variety revealed him. Yeah. And it was, they were working in conjunction with William. I got threatened. I remember I came out on So they called out their dogs. Oh, they called it out. And then I went on Good Morning America with Mike

Strayan and the next day I had all these tabloids coming at me like they're going to reveal some secret story about me. And I was like, man, I'll put it on my Twitter. And I put the, they said I had prostitutes in Monaco and the whole thing, and I was on a second honeymoon with my wife. And I was like, dude, this Hollywood machine is scary

because this is the deal. You think as an artist that people are hearing all this, where are they getting this from? It's your agent giving that shit out. They are the ones that's keeping you in line. You just said, I remember being a bodyguard. And what happens is when these bodyguards and bouncers get around, what they do is they go beat up an innocent guy

and then run back to you and go, oh, man, he was going to kill you, boy. And they go, oh, I love you. I'll keep you forever. And that's how you get paid. This is why agents do the same thing too. They literally create these things like, oh, look, look. And they're the ones telling these guys all your stuff. And they're like, I'm going to save you from this.

I'll get you out of this. Yeah, we'll get you out. Dude, come on, man. It's the hustle. It's as bad as crack game. It's as bad as all this stuff. And I started revealing this stuff because I was going on Twitter, just Twitter, Facebook.

I was revealing all this stuff and people were like, he's going crazy. He's nuts. But I was like, hey, man, I know exactly what's going on. And I said, I'm not letting you get away with any of it. And how did it end up? Oh, he quit. He had to go. Yeah.

Finally, finally, I got a call from William Morris like, you know what? We're going to let him go. Yeah. Because what happened was, and this is the thing, there was several other people came out and joined my case. Now, they weren't willing to be named. Right. But I was like,

let's go to court, bro. You want to go all the way? Let's go. And there were several other people that he did the same thing to. And they were like, okay, we got it. And they quit.

But they were ready to fight. But see, that's the game. If you're willing to quit, they're willing to just step see that's the game if you if you're willing to quit they're willing to just step on you but i wasn't willing i was like i'm going to take this all the way i don't care the career was over i was already i went home told my wife how it was done yeah we'll do something else right i mean that was it yeah but you stuck in there i did i have to say though are you still because my wife told me no i, I'm not. Hold on, hold on, hold on. I left right away.

But my wife told me. But see, this is what blew my mind. My wife said, Terry, every woman has always been through this. See, this is the thing. Every woman has been. Women get molested all the time. Yeah. And they got to go to work.

Yeah. Women get this all day. And she was telling me what to do. She was like, listen, you know what? This happened to me when I was in dinner. I was going, what in the world? Why didn't you tell me? Yeah.

Wait, man. I had my daughters were telling me, yeah, dad, this is it. I'm going, what? Yeah. What? Women go through this all day. And I was like, but what happened was, and this is the best thing about what's happened. Yeah.

I took what was normally a 2D women's issue and we made it a 3D issue. Because what happened was all these men started coming out about what happened to them. We had major wrestlers that were in the Olympics and the whole thing coming out about the team doctors that were

molesting them. All these players from high school and colleges that were getting molested in college. Dude, this happens. Happens a lot. And what I mean is, it's just because I didn't beat the guy up, did that mean I wasn't molested? Like, even if I did, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, does that mean you didn't put your hands on me?

Yeah, you did. And that affects me. You know what I'm saying? You crossed that boundary. You know what I'm saying? You cross that boundary. You know what I mean? And my thing is men were like, it really highlighted the fact that guys were coming back in their past and they're like, yeah, I remember when I was a pledging for this fraternity and they made us get naked.

Yeah, you freeze up, man. And the military. The military was talking about people were coming up like, hey, man, I remember that because you block it out. We compartmentalize. And in that moment, the reason why, unless you're, the alternative to not striking back is just seizure. It's just like, what?

That's it. But then also you go back and say, that didn't happen. We can literally go, ah, people go, that was no big deal. Yeah, right. And you push it out of your head, right? But that you but that guy did it he did do it So how long was this whole like process before you had all leveled off? Oh my here It was about it took two years straight and you did and your career is thriving. You're good. I

Survived man, and that guy's probably still in show business. I survived. Yeah, right. He just moved on. He just moved on. Like relocating priests. Exactly. You're right. He's at another agency. He's somewhere else.

He's at another agency. He's doing something. Listen, as long as I don't run into him, I'm good. All right. It's great talking to you, man. Oh, my. It's good, man. Thanks for doing it.

Glad to be here. Okay, that's it. That is it. Good talk. Enjoyed it. You can, if you want my tour dates, you can go to WTFpod.com slash tour for venue and ticket information for all of my winter tour dates.

Delray's excited. I'm excited. Looking forward to getting out out there i got to get my set back into my head before the special comes out in march i wanted to uh tour this set a couple more times i recorded this special so some part of me is like dump that material just you know deleted it from the hard drive got to reprogram it and put some of the new stuff in. Got some new shit going. Got some new jokies. Some new stories. Some new ideas.

And I'll see you out there. Oh, I did not learn any new chord progressions, but I'm going to play guitar.meme me me me me mememe me

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