WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1094 - Ashton Kutcher

Episode Date: February 3, 2020

Ashton Kutcher is still close with the modeling agent who discovered him in a bar in Iowa. He’s also still with the manager who got him his first acting work. Ashton talks with Marc about why he feels such a strong loyalty to the people who first gave him a shot, especially because those early shots led to acting stardom, a successful production company, and lucrative involvement in the world of tech investing. They also talk about That ‘70s Show, Punk’d, taking over for Charlie Sheen on Two and a Half Men, and why his love of three-camera sitcoms prompted him to make The Ranch as both a sitcom and a drama. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace and Stamps.com. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store

and ACAST Creative. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck wads? What's happening? I'm Mark Maronon this is my podcast

wtf i am broadcasting from a hotel room in milwaukee wisconsin and so far this room is great i don't know why it's got a lot of charm it's kind of fun there's a record player in the room there's also a ukulele in the room, which I've never seen before. I've never been to a hotel with a ukulele in the room. I feel like now that I've mentioned it, I should probably pick up the uke and give it a whirl. Hold on. I don't think it's an in tune uke i should have done a little more preparing before i started the show so i went to cleveland and uh met up with dean del rey and we've been fucking laying it out

doing the shows it's been great before i get into that maybe i should tell you that ashton kutcher is on the show today ashton kutcher he's got the final season of his show the ranch streaming on netflix but he's one of those guys where i'm like everyone seems to be okay with ashton kutcher people not only are are okay with ashton Kutcher, they generally like him. People I've talked to, his wife I spoke to, obviously she had nice things to say about him, but everybody in general seems to like him. And it turns out I liked him. And you'll get to hear our conversation. If you're looking for, I don't, there's not a lot of dirt on Ashton Kutcher, but decent guy, There's not a lot of dirt on Ashton Kutcher, but decent guy, bright guy, good conversation coming your way.

That is happening. Oh, there goes my timer. Time to wake up from my nap. So I meet Dean in Cleveland. I rent the car, got a Jeep Compass, a white one, head out to the hotel. Cleveland's Cleveland. Cleveland's a little, I don't know what you, I can get a sense of it I don't want to judge it all I know is that Dino and I had a great fucking show at the Agora Theater well we went to Jonathan Sawyer's place the greenhouse uh tavern and it was fucking nuts man I you know I didn man. It took me two days to recover from eating there in a good way.

I've not been able to eat all day for all three days. But the show that night was great. And then the following night, we drove five hours. Nice conversations. Dean got me, I don't know what. He doesn't drink coffee. He drinks decaf coffee. And we're stopping at Dunkin' Donuts.

And I can't resist that shit. So I'm all fucking jacked up on Dunkin' Donuts coffee. My fucking brain is on fire. And I'm plowing just on the road with my eyes bugging out of my head from two or three Dunkin' Donuts coffees. And this was like, I guess it was, yeah, this was the following day. This was the day after the Senate chose to vote on whether or not America would be a minority rule authoritarian country beholden to an autocrat.

And we were all wondering how that vote would play out. Would we, you know, on Saturday be an authoritarian country with minority rule beholden to an autocrat? Or would democracy struggle on and try to act within the constitutional and judicial processes of a democratic country. And we chose authoritarianism. Not me, but those people who chose those senators and those people who choose to be mind-fucked into believing a single source of information that is limited and false, and also to believe a lying sack of shit of a president. So, so that's where we're at now is now the sort of slow adjustment to, uh, autocracy, uh,

authoritarian construct. I mean, obviously many of you will get exactly what you need and what you have been getting and be okay, but that's where we're at and i you know i'm not being condescending or glib uh but you know i what can i do i'm not going to freak out we'll have a vote in november we'll see how that goes uh perhaps it'll get even worse can always get worse might get better but i'm just trying to adjust to that without a complete spiral. But we drove on Friday from Cleveland to Grand Rapids, nice drive, jacked on coffee, as I said. And I was concerned about the Fountain Street Church, or maybe I made you guys concerned. But we sold nicely, over a thousand tickets, a big, beautiful place, one of the largest pipe organs I've ever seen in my life. Apparently, many years ago, it was a Baptist church,

but for the last almost 100 years, it's been sort of a Unitarian situation, a kind of more a church dedicated to education and opening minds, as opposed to necessarily a religious type of thing. Liberal Christianity, kind of broad, but also a place where speakers and bands have been coming to expand the minds of humans for decades.

I mean, the place has hosted Winston Churchill, Eleanor Roosevelt, Amelia Earhart, Robert Frost, Malcolm X, Robert Kennedy Jr., Angela Davis, Margaret Atwood. It's crazy. Farrakhan, Christopher Hitchens, musicians like Dave Brubeck, Stan Kenton, Ella Fitzgerald, Duke Ellington, B.B. King, Frank Zappa, the MC5, Richie Havens, and Bo Burnham. That's where it it lands and Chris D'Elia and Tiffany Haddish but uh quite quite a legacy to be part of quite a place to uh to stand and uh and and feel the uh the intensity of being in a large church the nice sound bounce and it does make a difference and I

definitely preached the gospel of me and there there was definitely some religious themed bits that kind of resonated in a deeper and more exciting way being delivered from the pulpit of a large church the way it should be. I had a very nice size congregation. It was a very passionate service. And I'm glad many people came to witness and laugh and we had a great show over there we drove another uh four hours from uh grand rapids to milwaukee more dunkin donuts coffee there are some more dates coming up i wanted to get get you hip to orlando florida i'm at the Hard Rock Live on February 14th then Tampa Florida at the Stras Center February 15th Portland Maine at the State Theater February 20th Providence

Rhode Island at Columbus Theater February 21st New Haven Connecticut at College Street Music Hall February 22nd and Huntington, New York at the Paramount February 23rd. Go to WTFpod.com slash tour for links to all the venues. Okay? All right then. So there's something else I want to tell you. Yeah, I think this will be more exciting for you Marvel fans. I got an email from somebody who is, I don't know if me telling you about this is going to ruin it uh here i'll just read it to you

subject line cameo in amazing spider-man this might be a bit of an odd way to reach out as we don't actually know each other even though i see you quite a bit i'm a huge huge fan and not just at the podcast but as a front row regular at your shows here in Los Angeles at the Comedy Store, Dynasty Typewriter, and Ice House. You've been my favorite comedian for years, and whenever you show up on a local schedule, my girlfriend and I are nearly always there. I was heartbroken to be out of town for work when you did the taping at Red Cat after seeing that material getting worked on for so long and enjoying it so much. Can't wait for the special, though. Anyhow, in addition to being a fan,

I'm also the writer of the amazing Spider-Man comic at Marvel. And I was wondering if you'd be interested in making a cameo appearance in the book. I know superheroes are not really your bag, so I won't bore you with the details of the story, but basically Spider-Man, oh, I don't want, this is a spoiler. This is a spoiler.

Oh, I'm not gonna tell you that part. Blah, blah, blah, blah, I don't want it. This is a spoiler. This is a spoiler. Oh, I'm not going to tell you that part. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We just need permission to use your likeness. Apparently there's a form for that if you're up for it. I've attached what it would look like on the page. Like I said, I know superheroes aren't your thing, but maybe you'd see this as a fun little bit of comic book immortality. Yes.

I mean, hey, he said, Letterman letterman did just let me know either way and keep up the great work uh yes nick i i i'm in i'm in you know what i should probably email you back um so that's exciting right marvel fans right comic book fans isn't exciting that i'll be in a spider-man comic book i'm'm sure you're thrilled. Come on. You've got to be thrilled. So the last time I talked to you, I had not had my last day on the Aretha Franklin movie. That one really, you know,

something really shifted in me around acting and around doing that movie. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the director, Liesel Tommy, who I think is, you you know was really doing detailed work to make this thing uh look great and sound great and and kind of pop and jennifer hudson was just such a pro and marlon wayans and everybody else i worked with on there i you know i wasn't around enough to really feel like totally part of the family people who were shooting it day in and day out for months on end but certainly it was a great experience and the last day we shot in a big church

they recreated the Amazing Grace concert we had all these background players just a full church of people, a full congregation doing the thing that you do in a just a full church of people a full congregation doing the thing that you do in a church um a black church particularly and uh it was it was a pretty exciting last day and when they rapped they said goodbye to me and everyone applauded and it was felt nice and i immediately went and shaved my fucking face i shaved that j Jerry Wexler beard right off of my face. Man, do I feel better.

And I've just got my soul patch and my stache again for now, and very long hair, and the soul patch and the hair will go when we start taping GLOW in March. So Ashton Kutcher, as I mentioned, smart guy, good guy, surprising conversation. So Ashton Kutcher, as I mentioned, smart guy, good guy, surprising conversation. His show, The Ranch, it's the last season, is now streaming on Netflix. And this is me talking to Ashton in my house. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything.

So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age.

Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance

before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need. And policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. You want to move the mic in a little? Do I need to move it in? Well, just so you can move towards it or whatever, just so you're up on it a little.

I have a little cold, so I don't want the next guy to get in. That's all right. Is that okay? Yeah, it's good. It's a risk that we all run with a little cold. Okay. Do you have kids? How old's your kid?

I got a three-year-old and a five-year-old. Oh, so you're always sick. It's a Petri dish in my house it's just insane and they go to the daycare and it's like they just like throw up on each other all day and then they come home and it's like then they're just like you know my son legitimately we put him to bed last night and and he comes out and he's like i threw up and it's just like vomit all over the carpet and i'm sitting there with like a Dyson vacuum cleaner trying to suck up his vomit off the carpet last night. It's really glamorous in our life. What is it?

What is it? They just throw up kids? They just throw up and shit and pee all over the place. Man. Is that like that? It sounds like it's easier to control a dog of some kind. I mean, it kind of. Do you have dogs? Yeah. I mean, kind of. Do you have dogs?

Yeah. I mean, but I grew up with dogs. I'm from Iowa. So like where I grew up, you keep your dogs outside. Right. So wait, what part of Iowa? Like around Cedar Rapids, Iowa City. Oh, yeah.

So did you grow up on land? Well, I grew up in Cedar Rapids, which is like the second biggest city. Yeah. And then my parents got divorced when I was 13 or something. My mom moved out to the country and she's like you're coming with me and so i ended up moving out to like a farm that's a heavy time to get the divorce news 13 yeah it was you know i have a twin brother and he had a heart transplant around like that time and oh my god i think i think it was just like really hard on like

the whole thing and oh so that happened before the divorce? Yeah, like right around the same time. How's he doing now? He's great, yeah. With the new heart? Yeah, yeah. From when he was a kid? Yeah. That's crazy.

At the time, he was the youngest person ever to be put on an artificial heart. It's an artificial heart? Well, he had an artificial heart in the hospital because his heart failed. He had a cardiomyopathy where basically it's like a virus that starts to attack the heart and break down the cardiac tissue. And so he had holes in his heart. And so they put him on an artificial heart.

And at the time, he was the youngest person ever to be put on an artificial heart. Yeah. And then it was like I was in the room with him and it failed. And they kicked me out of the room and within like i mean he had like 12 hours to go or something and then he got moved to number one on the list for heart transplants then he got a heart and he's now i mean we're 41 and he's lives in colorado as a son really yeah he's engaged to get married. That's amazing. So, but when they do that, when they get a heart for a kid that age, does the heart have to be that age?

No. Well, it was, they don't really tell you where the heart comes from. Right. But I think it's just about size, right? So, I think he got a heart from a woman in Florida somewhere. That's so wild. Yeah, it's crazy. And does he still have to take pills for the- Anti-rejection pills. He does. Yeah. His whole life? His whole life, yeah. Because basically, you've now put a foreign object in

your body. So it's actually really similar to a lot of autoimmune diseases where your body sees a part of your own body as a foreign object and starts to attack it. So it's virtually the same thing. So they give them, you know. That's wild. That's amazing that he lived and everything's all right. It is incredible. And you guys are close?

We were really close when we were young. Yeah. That thing sort of took us a little bit further apart because we he was in the hospital for like a year basically so you were out in the country with your mom and he's in town uh i was with my dad and i was with you know various people and you know it's like wherever they could get have me while this was taking place you know uh and then right and then it and then like through the years like he moved to i moved out, I moved to New York when I was 19. He lives in Denver now.

We're just kind of, my sister's down in Louisiana, so our family's kind of all over the country. How many are there of you guys? Three of us. Oh, so that's it. Yeah. With the kids. Yeah, and then my parents are in Iowa. They're both still there.

Yep. And still divorced from each other. Yeah. Both remarried. Yeah. Great people. They're both still there. Yep. And still divorced from each other. Yeah. Yeah. Both remarried. Yeah. They were great people. Great.

But when you moved to the country, was it a big scene, a big farm kind of situation or what? Yeah, it was a little weird. Yeah. I mean, I went from like-

That's where we started, the dogs outside. Yeah. Well, I went from the city and then moved to the country and, you know,

and there's a little bit of, you know, when you go into that, there's a little bit of attitude country and, you know, and there's a little bit of, you know, when you go into that, there's a little bit of attitude of like, you know, you're not really a country kid. Right. Yeah. And so it was like that. I had a car. I drove around the city.

Yeah. You're like 14, 15. You've got to like prove yourself. Yeah. So you've got to fight somebody in order to like. Oh, yeah. You know, I mean, well, it's kind of. Yeah.

It's like you have to like this is my dance space this is your dance space don't come into my dance space and i'm not coming into yours so you moved to the country anymore it's a smaller school and you just got right in there and kick some guy's ass and set him here and i started playing football and like oh yeah you know and then got like you know just started, and then got in a couple fights and this and that. Do you fight now? I do jujitsu, but I don't fight. When was the last fist fight you got into? Do you have that instinct in you?

Because I don't. You know, some people do. It's not my first thought. Yeah, my dad, when I was young, my dad was like, you know, we came from like a pretty Christian Catholic family. Yeah. It turned the other cheek right um and you know i remember like being a kid and like getting punched and just

being like i could just keep walking uh and then you know and then you get older and you build up enough frustration and then you fight for for a while i was like i fought yeah and then i just realized like this is stupid all right well that's good this this you don't really hurt somebody and yeah there's just kind of no point yeah i mean i like i like doing jujitsu i was a wrestler when i was a kid um and on a team yeah and that was my that was my sport when i was young and and i really didn't have an outlet for that yeah and actually like if i'm pissed off it's like nice to go do some jiu-jitsu and then you feel fine afterwards. Are you good at it?

I'm all right. Yeah? I'm okay. I mean, I concede. Yeah. So it's like if somebody's like, are you better than me? I'm like, no, you're better than me. You win.

We don't need to fight. You win. So then who do you fight? Just people who are at your level? I mean, I spar with folks. Yeah. My coach brings me people i spar with with folks yeah my coach brings me people to spar with yeah yeah and then and that's no competitions no no there's no i don't need to do that so all right so here you are you're out on the farm you're you're growing up in iowa

your brother's got problems your sister's where she lost in the mix somewhere? Yeah, my sister basically sort of lone wolfed it. Older or younger? Older. She's like a couple years older than us. Now, were you like an angry kid outside of the fighting? Did you push back? Did you rebel? Did you get in trouble?

What the fuck happened? I mean, like rebelling in Iowa is like I smoked a joint, right? So, yeah, I did that. Yeah. And then I was actually a really good student, just sort of straight and narrowed it. And then my senior year, my cousin and I broke into the school. Oh, yeah, I think I read about this.

I got a deferred judgment on a felony offense for third-degree burglary. What was the intent? What were you going for? I was going to steal some shit. Yeah, yeah. We were just poor and wanted some money. Like, we're going to go to the lab. Yeah, exactly.

Get some Bunsen burners. It's a five-disc CD exchanger in there. We can, you know. Then my cousin, like, stabbed some scissors in a soda machine, like, trying to. I'm like, what are you doing? Did the change? Like, what are we going for here? So you're just like half-assed.

You're trying to rob a school and you get busted. Yeah. We, I mean, it was, it was funny. So, uh, uh, well, it's not funny. It was stupid. Yeah. Um, but, uh, we were, I, I was dating the principal's daughter at the time. Really? So that's, that's probably not good. principal's daughter at the time. Really?

So that's probably not good. So this compounded the issue. He didn't like you, right? No, he did like me until this happened. And then he was like, because I'd come almost directly from their house, met up with my cousin. And then we went and I knew how to pick locks. And so I picked the lock at the school. It sounds like you could have just stole the fucking keys. Why didn't you? From the old man.

I just picked the lock. Oh, that's good. Can you still do that? Maybe. Yeah. I don't know. I haven't really kept up with my lock picking skills. They're tougher locks now.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, if it was a digital lock, I could probably figure it out now. You've got connections. Yeah. You've got to have you've got you've probably invested in an app which will pick a digital lock yeah pretty exactly yeah if not i'll find one right so so we went um and we got we were in the school we're kind of like walking around and honestly we were like you know my cousin wanted

to get his test from the next day so he could cheat on the test. I mean, we really weren't doing anything. Right. And we didn't know there were silent alarms in the school. And I look out the window and I see a car pull into the parking lot. It was like one in the morning or something. And I was like, this is, that's weird. Like, why is there a car?

And then all of a sudden my cousin sees two cop cars. Well, he's like, cops! And we just start running. We bolt out of the school, and there was a cornfield. And on the other side of the cornfield was a crick bed. And the crick bed led all the way back to the next town. Yeah. And so we were thinking, if we can get to that crick bed, it's back in the woods.

There's no way they're going to find us. Right. We'd be home free. And so we dart out of the school, and then we shoot back into the school, and we're in this room that was like right on the edge where it's like a 200-yard sprint to the creek bed. Yeah. And we're sitting in the room. We're like, okay, you ready?

One, two, three, come out the doors. The cops are standing there, and we're at gunpoint, and we're like, whoa, whoa. And then, yeah. Why'd you go back into the school when you went out? Because they were on our tail. Oh, they saw you. When we were out, they were on our tail and we turned a corner and then we popped back in. But we assumed that they didn't see us go back in.

And then they did. So you could have gotten shot. I could have gotten shot. Yeah. So you went to jail? Went to jail. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know. Called my parents and then they were like, we're not going to come in trouble. Yeah. So you went to jail? Went to jail. Yeah. Yeah.

And then, you know. Called my parents, and then they were like, we're not going to come get you. Yeah. And they were like, wait for your arraignment. How many days was that? It was a good day. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Sweep in jail, learn your lesson. Yeah. And then what happened with the charges? Well, I got deferred judgment. Yeah. And then I got probation, and I wasn't allowed to leave the county. Yeah. My girlfriend broke up with me.

And then I wasn't allowed to do any extracurricular or anything at school. I didn't get kicked out of the school, which I felt like- But were you a hero or a loser? I'd shamed the city, right? It was like a town. There were 52 people in my graduating class. There were 100 people in my town. I'd shamed the city.

So the outlaw thing wasn't a positive thing? Yeah, it didn't go well. No sentence? No nothing? I mean, I did a bunch of community service. What was that? I had to do that once. Yeah, I helped kids get on the bus in the morning and stuff

and painted a fence and like you know i had a vacuum at an old folks home yeah there you go yeah that's good yeah this is like 40 hours of that yeah it's just because i fought a traffic ticket a speeding ticket i mean by the way my community service was no worse than any of the jobs i had when i was that age so it was sort of like not really it was just like a job i didn't get paid for. Yeah. I was like, this is not, this isn't fair. So when does the interest in the arts happen? Does it happen? Well, I had already, so when I was in like, I think seventh grade, I started doing junior

high theater and I was in every play that my school offered for the entire time I was in school and I was in the thespian society and went and competed in like state acting competitions and stuff. They had acting competitions? How did those work? Would you do a monologue? Yeah, you'd like prepare a scene with a scene partner

or something and then you'd go and perform it. Yeah. I mean, I always loved performing. I think, you know, I've like psychoanalyzed myself and broke it down i think i just like the attention sure um and you like getting a laugh yeah yeah i mean great right yeah there's sort of nothing is satisfying it's like i actually said something that you found familiar enough to laugh at it's great it's beautiful um so yeah i kind of fell in love with it but also i was in iowa and i'm going how the hell am i gonna get out yeah what am i gonna do like community theater or

something yeah um you thought we were thinking about that you thought like how do i make this a profession yeah but i really didn't know how so i kind of just gave up on it yeah and i was i did pretty well in school and so i i decided to go to school and become a biochemical engineer and why that that's i was going to be a geneticist really yeah what compelled you to do that i wanted to figure out how to stop the virus from replicating that attack my brother's heart really that was my goal yeah you kind of obsessed with it? Yeah. I just wanted to figure out how to like, I mean, there's a process that viruses go through called

lysis where they sort of transition and start to replicate. Yeah. And I thought if, you know, if you could infect a virus with a strand of DNA that didn't allow it to replicate that potentially you could stop it from. Is that they use now i don't know i haven't kept up on it really you haven't you're not you don't get the journals no but it seems like in the you know you're involved with the tech world but you don't do biotech i've i've done a couple things in biotech um it's i i probably should do more yeah but I always feel like I studied it, but that I didn't learn it well enough to do it well. Meanwhile, I wasn't a computer engineer or a computer scientist or anything of that sort, but yet I feel confident enough to. It doesn't really make sense.

Well, no, it does because mechanics are mechanics, but when it comes to the human thing, you don't know what the hell. It just seems like no matter what they do, it's sort of like, we don't really know. With machines, it's machines. With digital stuff. But when you're dealing with things like this, we're going to inject this into, it's like, I don't know what the fuck is going to happen.

I think there's not a regulating body that sits over the top of technology. Yeah. Whereas if you go into biotech, you have to deal with the FDA. Sure. And I don't want a guy at the finish line to be able to say, sorry, we're just not going to prove this. Yeah. To me, that puts my investment in somebody else's hands. Right. Well, it might be

for the right reasons, but you just don't want to be involved with that possibility. It also might be for the wrong reasons. Sure. Maybe. There might be some minor side effect that is outside of it. And I'm not in any way- We want to take the risk either way. Yeah, exactly. So my rule is I don't invest in non-FDA approved biochemical technology.

Sure. Well, I mean, I just think it's interesting because the virus, the idea, the virus is sort of like a renegade strand of like RNA or DNA that needs to hook up with something, needs a host. So your concept was if you could create a fake, like a ghost strand of DNA that it could hook up to, that it would diminish the impact. Yeah. I mean, if you think about like antivirals for like the flu or something like that, right? Like they basically give you a dormant version of that. So you could actually create,

you should hypothetically be able to create an antivirus for- Anything, any virus. For many viruses, right? They're probably working on that. Yeah, maybe. But you didn't follow through i did not follow through no i i i i was i was in college and i was in a bar yeah and some lady came up to me and was like how old are you and i was like let me get this beer and i'll let you know yeah and i was like i'm 19 and then she said uh have you ever thought about

being a model and i was like i thought Fabio was like the only male model. Like I didn't realize guys did that as a job. And I said, no. I was like, I thought about being an actor. And she's like, well, this is a really good way to be an actor. Come to find out it's not. But then she sort of showed me the ropes and helped build my confidence where'd she find you in iowa yeah i was in a bar in iowa and she was from where

she had a scouting agency in iowa she now she's in st louis yeah you still know her yeah i'm still really close with him she because she started your whole life yeah yeah and she was just like you're a good looking guy yeah she was like you thought she was full of shit at first i thought she was completely full of shit she was like there's a a uh competition at the shopping mall like this weekend in cedar rapids yeah she's like come you know y'all you have to walk from like here to you know 50 feet and back and she's like wear a tight shirt and some jeans and you're going to, yeah, I think you'll win. And then I won a trip to New York and I left my, I got a week off from

my job at General Mills in the Cheerio factory where I was sweeping Cheerio dust, doing janitorial work and flew to New York. And I called my dad once i got there and said i'm not coming home and he was like and he was like bullshit he's like get your ass back here i was like i listen i i've got my boy scout backpack and i've got my sleeping bag and i've got a hundred dollars yeah and you know if i run out of money i'll figure out how to get home but for now i'm not coming home. And then with $100 in my pocket and my Boy Scout backpack, I set out in the world, man.

And that was that. That was that. And that's history. So you were working at a General Mills factory? Yeah. Where they made cereal? It was a really good summer job. Yeah?

Yeah, they made Cheerios, fruit roll-ups, clusters. Did you take that stuff home? I mean, I'd grab a handful out of a bin as it was going down the thing. I mean, I was over a cereal by the time I got, I mean, I was covered in it. It's sort of like when you work in a meat factory and you become a vegetarian. Right. You're just like, oh, man, I don't know if I can. They're killing so many Cheerios.

Yeah. It's so upsetting. Yeah. But it's not upsetting. You're just like, I don't know if I can. They're killing so many Cheerios. Yeah. It's so upsetting. Yeah. But it's not upsetting. You're just like, I don't know if I can eat this stuff, man. Where did your dad work when you were growing up? He was on the Fruit Roll-Ups line. He was?

Yeah. No, he wasn't. Yeah, he got me the job. It was a great summer job. I mean, it was an amazing summer job. I was getting paid like $12 an hour or something. But it wasn't a summer job for your dad. He was full-time Fruit Roll-Ups? Yeah, he was full-time, yeah.

For the fruit roll-ups? Yeah, on fruit roll-ups, yeah. I mean, I went from working in a warehouse, like driving a forklift. Sorry, I'm laughing, I'm sorry. Why? It's just like the fruit roll-ups line. And someone's got to do it,

but it's a funny thing to say. Somebody's got to make sure that the foot-long fruit roll-ups come out of full foot. I get it. You don't want an 11-inch foot-long fruit roll-up. No, you want the whole thing. You need a full foot.

Yeah. And that was your dad. That was my pops. You were on the forklift? In a warehouse before that. Oh. So this was a great gig. Sure, because you're working with cereal.

Your dad's right down around the corner. I was getting paid $12 an hour instead of $8 an hour. Right. That was great. Yeah. And instead of $4.60 that I got for washing dishes. Oh, at a restaurant? Yeah.

Well, I'm glad. It seemed like there was a nice progression. Dishes, forklift, Cheerios, runway model. Exactly. Italy. Italy. Yeah. It's a good progression.

Giorgio Armani. It just works. Wearing the nice suits. All those brands line up. Yeah. Come on. Sure, man. The Homestead Kitchen. Hawkeye Foods, General Mills.

And then Armani. I mean, don't forget Spikes Meat Cutting. Oh, you were at Spikes? I worked at Spikes, and I skinned deer during deer hunting season. So you can do that if necessary. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah?

I can skin and trim a deer like nobody's business. What was Spikes? It was a place where people brought their deers to be butchered? Yeah, it was Oh, yeah. Yeah? I can skin and trim a deer like nobody's business. What was Spikes? It was a place where people brought their deers to be butchered? Yeah, it was a butcher shop. So people would bring them or they'd sell them? Hopefully they'd have them field dressed and they'd just drop them off and then I'd hang them up and skin them and cut the heads off. So that was the service that Spikes provided. Hunters would bring their field dressed game in.

A field dressed game and then we'd turn it into processed meat that people could take home and eat. Right, and freeze. Yeah. Yeah, package it up. It would be frozen by the time we gave it to them. You wouldn't want to give it to them thawed. Oh, really?

Yeah. You'd freeze it? Yeah. Oh. I mean, I thought, so they'd pick it up like a week later. Yeah, a week, two weeks. It depends on how busy we were. It's not like by tomorrow I need this fresh, and I'll put it in my freezer. Yeah, no, it'd be like a couple, two weeks. It depends on how busy we were. It's not like by tomorrow I need this fresh and I'll put it in my freezer.

Yeah, no, it would be like a couple days. We can move through a deer pretty quick. Yeah, and did you hunt or do you? Yeah, I was a hunter. How was it? I loved it. Yeah? Yeah, I like bird hunting and I like fishing.

Shotguns? Yeah. Shotgun bird hunting? Yeah. That's the way you do it, right? Yeah. With ducks and whales? Like a 20-gauge or a 410.

You want something small so you don't mutilate the meat. Yeah, so you don't have to pick, like, spit shot out of you. Yeah, exactly. But I started deer hunting when I was 15 or 16 or something like this. I liked it, but it was a weird thing with deer hunting. Yeah. You actually felt like, I don't know, I just started feeling bad for the game. It was weird.

Yeah. That's called the conscience. Yeah. It's called not becoming a serial killer. Have you seen this don't fuck with cats thing? Not yet. You've got to watch this thing. I have two cats now.

I just had to put one down. I don't know if I can handle it yet. Oh, God. It's something else. Do you have cats? I used to have cats, yeah love cats yeah and it didn't affect people were telling me like if you have cats it's gonna be a little rough it's a little rough but man is it something else really oh god it's just but wait what are these sounds you're making this doesn't sound like a good

experience well i mean if you're into this thing i Was it a good experience? What's shocking is you're sort of seeing it through the eyes of these people who are using the internet to solve this case, but then they stumble upon something much greater. Yeah. And you're like, it's shocking. So it's a good documentary. It's beautiful. Okay. Beautiful might be the wrong word, but it's exhilar it's a good documentary and it's beautiful yeah okay i'll you know people beautiful might be the wrong word but it's exhilarating effective yeah all right so you're in uh so you're doing the big modeling with buddy with ford wilhelmina who's what's next

oh yeah is that a big one that was one of the big ones for guys oh so you're doing print you're doing runway you're doing all of it i'm doing enough to get by to start with. Living in New York, where? I was living in a two-bedroom apartment with five other guys. It was a model's apartment. Which one? In Hell's Kitchen. Ninth and 40-something? It was ninth and 38th, yeah.

And then it was terrifying. Yeah. Like as a kid from Iowa, it was like- Right in it there. Yeah. I mean, I remember walking up this like two story walk up and turning the lights on in this place and roaches just scattered. Oh yeah. Down the street, ninth Avenue, like 42nd street. Yeah. There was a guy selling a girl on the

corner and it was just in the person living in a trash bag outside. You're like, wow, this is just a different mind blowing. Yeah. Mind Yeah, mind-blowing. But you had your Boy Scout backpack. I was good. I had my Swiss Army knife, man. You could fly with knives back then. Sure, man. Don't forget. Yeah.

So, yeah. And then I booked a couple little jobs and made a little bit of money. But I didn't see any of it because I was living in the model's apartment. Right. And I was paying like $2,000 a month for this two bedroom. They put you up in there? Yeah. They put you up in there. So then they take your check when you get paid and they pay

themselves for the rent for the model's apartment, which couldn't have possibly been $10,000 a month. But that's what it was. And then, you know, they pay for all your flights, but you don't know how much they cost. And so ultimately I didn't see any money for a while. And I was just kind of living off of ramen and, you know, whatever else I could get my hands on. And then, yeah, and then I went to Italy and did a bunch of runway shows and booked like 19 shows or something like that how'd you feel about that being a model you know coming from what you come from and knowing that now you're a model how'd your dad react my dad was like this is bullshit come home right um i i was i honestly i was like i can't believe people are gonna pay me to just look like me yeah so there was that you didn't feel it was in uh beneath you or

or the affected your masculinity or anything no yeah this wasn't that it was just like i was just shocking that people were paying me to just be me i like i couldn't like you had to learn how to walk correctly didn't you i had to learn how to walk the right didn't you? I had to learn how to walk the right way and do the thing. Do the thing. Yeah, like whatever. But it was just this sort of shocking thing. And then it didn't take long. It was probably like within a year, I was like, it's not gratifying.

Right. Okay, yeah. Because there wasn't a sense of earnership about what was happening right and that's when i found an acting manager in new york and then started working with her and going on castings who was that uh the manager i still have today stephanie simon oh yeah stephanie simon yeah from untitled yeah i think i know her yeah so i met her yeah um through my modeling agent and then started going on castings and booked like a pizza hut commercial and then i booked a test for a mbc pilot uh-huh and they flew me out here wait is untitled her company yeah her and jason weinberg yeah and you've been with them you've been with her for 20 two years so that's well that's loyalty that's nice you've been with her for years. 22 years. So that's, well, that's loyalty.

That's nice. You've been with her that long. Yeah. I don't know. It's like somebody gives you a shot. Yeah. It's weird. I don't understand how people forget the people that give them a shot.

Like it is. Do they forget them or do they think that once they get the shot, if they can't continue to grow, that they feel like they've outgrown them. I get that. Yeah. But, I mean, she continued to grow as well. Oh, yeah. She's got a big company, right?

She's got a lot of people. Yeah. And I just, you know, even if they don't do what they used to do, like you sit down and have a conversation about it and you go, all right, you know, what are the things that you could be doing that you're not doing that we need to be doing that works yeah you can do that but i from the other side of it from a guy who was managed by a guy for 20 years and you know you get to a point where they grow but you're not they can't move you it's no one's fault sometimes you hit an impasse that's true where you're like this isn't working out yeah but maybe you still have a relationship with them i mean mean, I've fired- Sure, sure, we're friends.

Yeah, I've had agents that I no longer work with that I used to work with, but especially the person, I don't know, the people that give you the first shot at something, that's a big bet, right? Because they're investing their time and energy on you because they see something. And especially when nobody else sees it,

I don't know. To me, it's just like... Yeah, oh, for sure. And you're still friends with the woman who gave you the modeling shot. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. You know that...

Well, I mean, some people, you don't necessarily have to keep a relationship with them, but you should honor that or respect what happened. Gratitude. Sure. Gratitude. Perfect. Yes, appreciation. Sure, that's it. Practice appreciation. honor that or respect that what happened gratitude sure gratitude perfect yes appreciation sure that's it practice appreciate yeah so she got you the 70s show gig yeah so i flew out here uh

auditioned for this nbc thing and then ended up booking a different nbc thing yeah it was a little weird and then went across town and booked the 70s show and then decided to take that 70s show and the rest is history then i started to work a lot yeah well you're on the 70s show forever right i think it was like eight years yeah but that's how you became a star yeah i mean that once again they gave me a shot yeah but you could do it it was a funny yeah i mean there was moments where i don't think i was doing it there like go go look at the first six episodes i was doing it. Go look at the first six episodes. I was sure I was getting fired for the first six episodes.

And I didn't know my ass from my elbow. Like I couldn't figure out. I'd done a student film in New York just to like figure out how to act in front of a camera. And like I'd never done take two before in my life. Who's student film? Do you remember that guy? Are you grateful?

Are you still in touch with him? No, I, he's actually done really well as a director. Oh, good. I'm trying to remember the name. It was the, the, the student film was called distance. It was an NYU student film, but I'd never done take two ever before. Cause I'd only done plays. Right.

And you just sort of load up and then unload. Right. That's true. One time. Sure. and that's it. And take two was a whole new weird thing. Reload. Yeah, reload. Like how do you reload once you blew your wad, right?

I mean, like some guys can do it. But it's – and so I had to learn – You didn't have chops. I did not have chops. And then Bonnie Turner from the 70s show basically taught me how to dissect a joke, taught me the rhythms of comedy. Because some people just kind of naturally have a comedic capacity. Yeah.

And I just didn't have that. And so I had to learn this process. You kind of have it. I mean, don't you? I need material right right and and but I can load up on material like I can like I can I can sit down and come up with material right but like before I go out and do like a talk show or something like that like I I kind of know what my bits are like I guess if

that producer I write yeah over it yeah I go over it and i and i build my bits yeah so when i get there i just execute on the bits right but i i'm not gonna come i'm not i'm not gonna off the cuff with you you know what i mean this is gonna go south because i just don't have those rhythms you know what i mean have you tried that no i'm doing it now this is a disaster what's happening right now no it's not it's funny it's good i've gotten a lot of laughs it's a disaster but like so what mark brazil was the guy right mark and bonnie and terry turner yeah yeah yeah and then you like that that whole crew like i like tofer too he does good shit movies sometimes. I haven't seen him in a while. I've interviewed him.

He's probably the only person I haven't really kept up with from the show. He's kind of an intense guy. He's a pretty intense guy. Yeah, yeah. He's kind of hard on himself. He's hard on himself and he's like pretty calculated about the things that he does. I always say he's like incredibly talented. Yeah, no, yeah, he is.

I mean, there was a couple movies. Like, he does a thing. He's got a thing. His wheelhouse is kind of, you know, intense. Yeah, his mode. Yeah, his mode. Right. He always had like a Michael J. Fox fascination.

Oh, really? Yeah, like- That was his like, you know- That was his North Star, yeah. Mine was Kirk Cameron, so. Oh, yeah, it was fair. Yeah, good. I'm glad you guys had your heroes and your models, the barometer for success.

Yeah, well, that makes sense. That's about right, huh? I worked with the guy from the guy who Don. Don, I worked with Don. Don Stark? Yeah. He played my sponsor in the fourth episode of my show on IFC. He's a great guy.

Don's fantastic. Yeah, he's great. Yeah. And you were, and Mila was on the show, but you guys, you didn't, it wasn't happening. Well, I mean, but she was like- And now she's your wife. She was like 14 when we started the show.

Okay, all right. And I was like- I'm not suggesting anything. No, but I'm simply saying, she was 14, I was 20, 19, something like that. Right. And so 14 and 20, it feels like a big age difference right sure it is it's just yeah it's illegal it's a yeah it's a legal problem as well 28 and 32 you go not not so much right it's less yeah yeah whatever i think i'm not doing the math right but anyway

but you did like that i mean that show was your life know, that sort of defines your life and your finances and everything for a long time. Yeah. Well, two years into it, because I was just a supporting character in the show, so I really wasn't doing that much work. I mean, I would show up for the workday, but sitcom schedules are pretty soft anyway. Right. But then when you're only in three, four scenes week um i i had a lot of extra time on my head so i started a production company um and then uh but how'd you know to do that was that stephanie's suggestion i mean who who how do you like because like big actors people who who are

making bread and have you know who have a foresight do that? Who gave you that? I just always wanted the job of the person that was paying me. So it was your idea? Like, I'm going to open a production company? It was a hundred. I met my producing partner out through his wife, through a party or something. Okay. Oh, he was a producer, and he said,

yeah, why don't we do this? And he was talking about movies that he wanted to make, and I had some ideas about things, and we started collaborating. I was like, why don't we just start a company? Right. And so we started out of my house and worked out of one of the bedrooms of my house. And about six months, eight months into it, and just bootstrapped it on our own money. And we came up with this idea for Punk'd.

it on our own money and we we came up with this idea for punked and uh my agents and manager everybody said don't do this is a bad idea someone's gonna get hurt no they were just like it's a bad idea for your career like why are you gonna go do reality tv at that point in time like doing reality tv seemed like a career ender yeah um and i was, I, I want to do this. Yeah. And then we started, started that up. And then I was, I did do where's my car. I think after the summer, the punk was sort of a phenomenon, right? Yeah. It was like the number one show on cable at the time. And isn't that where Dak Shepard comes from?

Yeah. I casted him for his, for the first episode. I think he was at groundlings at the time yeah which was like a unbelievable place to go find sure talent for yeah and yeah we casted him on there oh you cast a lot of people out of the groundlings for punk for improvising uh real people a bunch of people oh really yeah where we found we found a lot of the talent for that show you know and i also also, I was a huge fan of Saturday Night Live when I was growing up.

Yeah. And I realized that that was like the only other show that improvers really could go to and work. Sketch guys. Yeah, like sketch improv people. I was like, wait a second. I can build, even if I'm number two to Saturday Night Live, I can build the other show

that sketch and improv people want to come work well yours is really improv i mean you ultimately snl is scripted all the way yeah i mean we had we had a you know a bible of what how we wanted to execute the bit yeah but the comedy in it was the holy they had they had to think on their feet because they're dealing with real people and things. Yeah, I mean, they had a little backup. We were in their ear. Oh, yeah. So they lost track.

Or if they weren't seeing something that we were seeing, they had a little bit of a voice of God going, don't get punched in the face. Back away right now. He's talking about punching you. You know, it was like, so we had that. It was like really successful. And then you did the, like so that we had that it was like really successful and then you did the yeah that big movie dude where's it was it dude where's my car dude where's my car written by phil stark who was one of the writers on the 70s show but then when do you start like becoming this wizard investor and and when do when do so like a lot of things happen right i did a bunch of movies

started started doing a bunch of other television shows. Like producing the movies. Producing some movies and then producing. We did this show called Beauty and the Geek. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were building as a reality production company. I think Endemol came in and offered to buy our production company. And I was like, well, if we sell it, then I have a boss and I don't know if I want a boss.

Yeah. And, and I was like, why would they want to buy this? Like, I was trying to figure out like why they were valuing it, where it was at. And then I saw buffering speeds online, just getting faster and faster and faster. And this is about maybe 12, 13 years ago. And I, 2007, six. Yeah. Yeah. And, And I was like, man, I think all this content is just going to move online. Like this is just an easier way to consume it. Really? You thought that? I legitimately had this thought. And so I went out and started looking for companies that could help me distribute content and quantify content, quantify creativity, if you will. Like determine where in the life cycle of a video people wanted more and where they wanted to turn it off. And understand the total number of views across multiple platforms of the internet.

And so I was really just trying to figure out how to optimize content for that platform. Any platform. Well, for the online ecosystem, like VOD. Right. And- Because you saw the future of entertainment moving there. That's what I thought.

Yeah. And so I tried to convince my board to create a fund- At the production company. At the production company to create a fund of capital inside the production company to invest in these types of companies. Yeah. And then use our production capabilities to- Make the content. To promote these companies.

Yeah. And accelerate their growth. Oh, okay. And then make the content and utilize those tools to actually build content out. And so we built out the internal piece of the puzzle, but the board didn't approve the investment piece. So I just started making the investments on my own. With your own money. With my own capital.

Yeah. And I invested in a company called Optimizely, which is like an A-B testing tool. I invested in Skype. I invested in a company called slide, which this guy, Max Levkin, who was from the PayPal mafia created PayPal mafia. It's like a group of early people that Peter Thiel brought in to build up PayPal. And then I just started meeting all these other people in the tech universe. This is a pivotal time because these are guys that are now billionaires, some of them. Yeah. And they weren't then.

They weren't then. And so you're like on the ground floor of these people that know the future in a way, or at least were gambling on it. Yeah. And to be clear, I was the dumbest guy in the room. Yeah. And intentionally the dumbest guy in the room and vacuuming as much information as I possibly could. Yeah.

Just to educate myself. Right. So I would go to San Francisco twice a week and just take meetings with the smartest people from Mark Andreessen and Mark Cuban. Anybody would take a meeting. And they would take a meeting with you because they thought you were funny and you're like, they knew who you were. They knew who I was, so they didn't, you know. But did they look at you as an investor as sort of like, I want to meet that guy?

I don't, no, no, not at all. I think they looked at me going, why is, what's he want, right? And then I found this angel investor, this guy, Ron Conway. An angel investor is a guy who just give you money? Yeah, he's like, it's like the a guy who just give you money? Yeah. He's like, it's like the first check-in kind of guy.

Yeah. And he was the best in the business in angel investing. Explain that to me exactly. How does angel investing work? So somebody comes to you with an idea. They haven't raised any money yet. And you give them the first check. Okay.

And he was kind of like the first check that was a stamp of approval that caused the second check to come in. And where does your check come in? Well, early days, I was an angel investor. So I learned from him and became an angel investor early on. But then I also would invest in things where somebody would call me up and go, hey, Skype is selling from eBay know there's some legal hair on it but we think we can clean that up but we think it's a you know 6x multiple from here and then yeah you know make that check as well so i was doing a little bit of both but mostly just super super early there was this there's this incubator uh in san francisco called y combinator which is probably the most prestigious incubator in the world where the best founders go through there. The biggest ideas from Dropbox to Cloudera to Airbnb and

all these companies end up going through this incubator. And this guy, Paul Graham, who built it and ran it would mentor these young entrepreneurs and help them figure out how to build their businesses. And so I would go there and at the time, there weren't any other celebrities or anybody else there. And I would go and I could always get a meeting with the founder because they were excited to meet. And then over time, I learned from them, I learned from other investors and sort of figured out how to do it.

Yeah. And then Guy Osiri, who was my partner in the fund, he was the only other guy from L.A. that I kept seeing up there running into. And he was a friend of mine. And at one point he turned to me, he was like, why don't we just do this together? And I was like, great, go find the money.

And I'm happily, because I'm running out of money. And so then he went and found the money. And then Ron Burkle came in with the capital and his back office um and we built our first fund and it started from there and and now this is like the bit the bulk of your business is doing this stuff this is yeah this is a little bit more than nine to five and and and now i do only do movies or films or tv that i like i'm really passionate about and it's more of like just for fun so the fund is it like so you manage a fund basically yeah and and that's that's where you ended up with this and that fund is you know you guys just sit around and go like well what are these things that look like we can put money in yeah so we have and then people invest in the fund exactly so the fund's called sound ventures right so i can put money in sound

ventures yeah yeah exactly so we have what's it cost to get in uh it just depends on it be honest with me no no it really depends like part of it is um you know we we, we are, we try, we try to have LPs that we think add value to the fund. So folks that give us some domain expertise that we don't have. Yeah. And those are the limited partners they put capital in. And then, and then we have a unbelievable team of, of folks that do run diligence for us on companies and they're constantly sourcing companies and, you know, laying out the numbers and telling us what they think. And then we have a portfolio management team that basically looks at all the companies we've invested in and constantly finding ways to try to be helpful to those companies.

Yeah. And then help those companies grow. That's the deal. That's the business. Yeah. And you're a respected guy in this world, your fund. I think so. Yeah. Now think so. Yeah.

Now, okay, so going back, you've been married to Miller for how long? I think we've been married for five years, almost five years. Yeah, and that's going good? It's going amazing. That's great. And then before that, you were with Demi for eight?

Yeah. And you guys are still friends? You know, we don't hang out. Right, right. I remember I talked to Miller, and it was sort of like oh yeah everyone's good and it's all good yeah we don't we don't hang out i i've uh i i make a really conscious effort to stay in touch with the girls yeah um because you were sort of present for a lot of that i mean it was eight years right so tolulo i think was like eight or nine right uh she was the youngest and and uh rumor was like 12 or 13 right when we first started dating and then

when we divorced like they would had all just well tolu was graduating high school when we sure so you so you had a relationship with them and during a sort of essential time yeah yeah i mean i was helping raise teenage girls through their adolescence it's weird when that happens because my brother's going through some of that like you have an ex whose kids you were a big part of their lives how do you maintain that and do you you know how does that work i think i mean i love them yeah right and i'm never going to stop loving them right right and and so, and respecting them and honoring them and rooting for them to be successful in whatever they're pursuing.

Yeah, I think you try, but at the same time, I'm not their father. I was never trying to be their father. I always had respect and honored Bruce and I think he's a brilliant human being and a wonderful man yeah and and i and so i i you know if they don't want an engagement right with me i'm not going to force it upon them but right but they they all do and it's that's nice great yeah so that's well it's good that there's not, you know, badness.

There's not badness. Yeah. Yeah. Now, okay. So the other thing is you started Catholic and then you moved into this other thing. Do you want to extrapolate on that or you want me to? Well, I mean, early in the conversation, you said you kind of Christian Catholic upbringing, but I know that. Well, I had a very Christian Catholic upbringingolic up i mean i was an altar boy uh my my mom's side of the family was irish catholic we we right you know went to church every sunday i went to catechism yeah learned about jesus christ uh sure and then confession the whole business the whole yeah the whole out of jesus yeah the whole thing here's your cookie um and learned a ton um about in the catholic model yeah about that about that model

and and sort of being in iowa i mean i had one friend that i realized was jewish because he was gone on days that we were still in school yeah and and i had a mormon friend uh when i was growing up yeah i never really recognized or realized the difference. Of religions. Yeah, but also never spent the time to understand any other religion. And then, I don't remember how long ago, started learning about Judaism. Just from who? Who were you with at the time? So Demi introduced me to a guy named Eitan Yardini,

who was one of the teachers at the Kabbalah Center. Now this is when like in Kabbalah's heyday, like when Madonna was Kabbalah and it was like sort of a fad a bit here. Yeah, I think Demi found out about it through Madonna. And I was really skeptical of all of it going in. Were you still practicing Catholic or were you just kind of untethered? No, I wasn't really practicing. I was actually sort of moving towards atheism.

Yeah. Where I was just sort of like... You were also consumed with exciting investments and things. I was consumed with a lot of things. So, but I was kind of questioning whether or not you need a model like this in order to be a good person. Yeah. And kind of questioning the, I always had an issue from the moment I asked my pastor, like, if you never heard of Jesus Christ, how is it that you go to hell?

Because you can't believe in something. This is something you asked when you were a kid? I asked him when I was an altar boy. Yeah. And he didn't have it. He's like, you just have to have faith. And I was like, that doesn't do it for me. Right.

That's a good question. That's a philosophical question. Like like if that guy doesn't even know who Jesus is why do you have to go now if you're in the Amazon rainforest and you've never heard of you and he's like well this is the person purpose for the missions and going out or spreading the word and you go yeah but there's you know some guys not gonna you're not gonna get to those guys in the Amazon right like right and so I and so I always sort of bumped against that. And then, so Demi introduced me to this guy, Eitan, and I asked him a bunch of questions.

Yeah. And I was really skeptical. Did you ask him that one? Well, he didn't believe that. So therefore, he didn't have to. Right, didn't matter. Right. There was no hell.

There was no hell. Yeah, and Jesus was just a guy. Not just a guy, a Kabbalist, no less. Of course. It had to be. Yeah, right. By the way, so was Isaac Newton, and so was anybody else that has done anything significant. Sure.

So, which is how it kind of generally goes. it kind of generally goes so and so i i started learning about this about judaism and learn how to you know read hebrew and learn how to like uh you know read read the torah and yeah read the midrash and read all of it read the zohar and read the talmud the talmud and it was like really in hebrew no no no I read the English translation. Sure. I could read Hebrew like, say the prayers. Right, right. Yeah.

But you didn't convert to Judaism. I never converted to Judaism. And the Kabbalists, this version of Kabbalah doesn't require that. It was detached from Judaism in a way. It was never required. No, I don't think it was detached from Judaism. Yeah. It was never a requirement. Nobody ever I don't think it was detached from Judaism. It was never a requirement.

Nobody ever made it incumbent upon me to do that. Yeah. So I just never felt the need to do it. Right. I mean, I did mikvah and, you know, I tied teflin and would say my morning prayers every day and, like, you know, I did the Amidah. Like, really, I studied it and went all in but

you wouldn't say you're a jew i don't think i'm anything but isn't that odd though like i'm i'm a jew and i you know i can i can read hebrew and i and i don't know that i've put the study that you put into it but i just never understood and i you know and from what you're telling me i just i just don't know like it seems like that you know all of the rituals were there and the connections are there, but what is the primary spiritual lesson of Kabbalah? I mean, what are you praying to? I mean, at the end of the day, Hillel said, somebody had asked him to explain the Torah while standing on one foot,

and he said, love thy neighbor as thyself. Everything else is commentary. Right. Yeah. And so, and by the way, if you say, what is the golden rule of Christianity? It's love thy neighbor as thyself, right? This is the same thing. Right.

And in fact, what I ended up finding out through studying Judaism was why the Catholics did all the things that I couldn't get answers as to why the Catholics did. Like, why did the priest always put a little bit of water in the wine before communion? Like, what was that about? And why was the bread? Why did they? So water is a right column energy of mercy and wine is a left column energy of judgment. And so you always want to have some sense of mercy or care before you judge anything yeah uh because otherwise it's a violent act it's you so from so you put a little bit of water into the wine um and you know and it was like why are why did they hand out wafers that community

why didn't they just hand out a piece of bread. Right. Oh, okay. Well, bread is an antenna for wisdom. And when it's inflated, it's like the ego, right? So it has the same amount of energy within a wafer as it has an inflated leavened piece of bread. Right. But it comes in a smaller package. And so it's an antenna, a reminder for individuals to diminish their ego. Right. There's blandness to it.

And hold the same space, right? A blandness to it. Yeah. So I learned all, and then I learned about Passover and Matzah. Were you learning this from the Kabbalah people? Well, I just didn't know any, so I didn't know that Passover came

at the same time of year as Easter. Right. And then when you do the Matzah, it's actually the same as the wafer. And it's, there's, I learned so much overlap. So much of it is exactly the same stuff. But just taught in different ways. And all really valuable stuff to sort of have and digest and realize. But I'm kind of left back at the same place

where I began, which is, you know, I think all these things are great as long as you're not religious about them. Right. And I found myself becoming religious about it as opposed to just... Curious intellectual yeah yeah philosophical I sort of passed the point of curiosity and philosophy and found myself becoming religious and went well I've just done the exact thing that I did before and here I am back at ground zero going

huh let me let me re-examine all of this yeah and and just use what works yeah where'd you land with that with like spirituality i'm you know i kind of think that that that the god that we're all looking for for is actually just in other people. Hmm. I can, yeah. Well, that's, I mean, that's a pretty good, a pretty good, yeah, could go either way. Like, I might, might.

So you're grounded in that as opposed to magical thinking, which is like. You're grounded in that as opposed to magical thinking, which is like. Yeah. My general sense is that like I'm seeking knowledge in this world. Yeah. There's more knowledge out in the world than I can, than I'll ever have, I'll ever personally obtain. And, you know, functionally at the end of the day, love the neighbor as thyself. Everything else is commentary.

Yeah. Like, just figure that out and you're going to do all right. Yeah. You'd be a decent person. People always have good things to say about you. Not always. You just haven't met the right people. People I've talked to think you're a great guy. Just haven't met the right people.

Come on. I'll introduce you to a couple. They're like, fuck that guy. you to a couple they're like fuck that guy you got a couple of those people out there is there anyone out there saying about that about oh i'm sure there is i i i've got i have a couple like personal one i'm pretty pretty righteous motherfucker yeah um which is probably doesn't come off very good a lot of the time yeah i i feel like i'm right most of the time yeah as do most people but i'm certain of it yeah uh that could be annoying that's annoying yeah number two

i have a my wife actually picks up me about this all the time like i can't i don't i don't recognize faces very well like i have this weird i can look at a face and go i know i know that person yeah but i can't place where or how i mean i've run into like ex-girlfriends that i've dated for years and you can't well that happens as you get older buddy no but i but legitimately like dated for like years and not recognize them that's not and so i think it like and i all and i'm very apologetic about it when i'm like man i can't place it i'm really really sorry i should know this yeah and the minute they tell me who they are i'm like oh yeah back to the thing that we did with the squid but like i i think that comes off really assholey sometimes and i don't mean to be i just don't have that auto recall on faces

well sometimes you get older and you've been a lot you know you've met a lot of people in your life and you don't you don't know how age is going to change people sometimes it takes a second i've had moments where like you know people i don't know if i've dated them for years but i've spent time with i don't i just feel really bad about it. Yeah. And then I always tell my, I'm just a shitty friend too. Oh, yeah? Yeah.

Well, I just don't respond to text messages and things. Yeah, you forget. They fall through the cracks. Don't be so hard on yourself. No, it's not even that. I just don't respond. Okay. I don't want to.

Do you respond in your head and think you responded? Maybe. Yeah. Yeah, I think about the response. Right. And then it's just like, I never got to that. Or I want to make sure it's like a good response. Yeah.

And then you don't do it. And then I don't get to it because I need like five minutes to actually really think about the response. Sure. You know that thing? Yeah, of course I do. So I'm also like, so I'll introduce you to some people. Oh, that'd be great. I mean, I won't recognize you the next time I see you in order to introduce you, but.

But when I reintroduce myself to you, you'll walk me over to the people that don't like you. Yeah, I'll be like, hey, here's the four people that are just like. Think I'm an asshole. Tell him how much of an asshole I am. So the last two things you've done tv wise in in the in terms of what you know you said you like to do like the taking the gig on two and a half men was that was that something that you had a good time with that you wanted to do or that that was just an undeniable amount of bread that could be had there um a combo of several things yeah well i was watching the charlie sheen thing happen

because i was watching online do you know him uh i do i've met him a couple times yeah and he's always been really nice to me and he's funny on that show he's been nice to me to my face yeah then in he said things that i was like what though, after you took the job probably? Yeah, I think he was just angry about things, which understandably. Yeah. Yeah, I was watching this thing happen. I got in the car and was driving. I was like, man, I was like, I got to tell you,

with what they're paying that guy, if somebody offered me that job, I would take it. And I sort of said it as a joke, right? But I was talking to my old agent about it or something like uh adam venet who was my old agent and and and i said i said it to him just sort of like on a way and so i went on a fishing trip in alaska with my dad or up up north somewhere and i got a phone call from my old agent he was like hey were you serious when you said that and i was like why and he goes well i think you could get the job and i was like well i said i'm like i like i don't know if i really want to like i'm not really sure that i want to.

And then I sort of sat and I thought about it. I was just talking to my dad and I was like, I love doing sitcoms. Yeah. Like love, love the live audience. It's a, you know, when you get a laugh. Yeah. Right. It's a specific skill.

Yeah. Nothing better than getting a laugh from an audience. It's all lavered up from a warmup guy. And he's like, fucking laugh, motherf motherfuckers and everybody's like yeah and so they're all ready they're ready to believe it yeah and so i and i was like i really love doing sitcoms yeah and at the time um I had daughters at home and I knew things were like a little like not great in my relationship and I wanted to work on that with Miller no no with with to me oh yeah and I wanted to work on that and I wanted to be home more right and I was like let me um let me think about it so i thought about it a little bit and talked to my dad and and then i went met with chuck lorry and he seemed like a really smart guy and he had an idea for

this character that i thought was really interesting which wasn't the character that i ended up i got the script and was like well that's not what we talked about but um but he had an idea for this character i thought was interesting and And he was like, are you ready? And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, well, this is going to be a big story and a big thing. And I was like, what's going to happen? I mean, worst case scenario, the guy's going to shit talk me. And then what?

Yeah. And so I was like, fuck it. And I just decided to do it. And had a really good time and met Don Rio and Jim Patterson, who ended up co-producing with me the ranch that we did on Netflix. So, yeah, we brought a bunch of the crew that was there as well. And so it was actually super fortuitous because we all ended up connecting and had a really good time making it. And people liked it, right? And the people that were fans of the show, they there and and you know you did the thing for a

while and and then and i actually went through a divorce while on that show which is a really hard thing to do yeah and you know having a family while going through that uh i i needed that yeah and so and those people were all there for me and supported me while i was going through that and it was phenomenal that's great yeah and then and now you're still working with them uh yeah then well we just finished the ranch that was eight seasons what was that the ranch the ranch 80 episodes, 80 episodes. We did four seasons. Four seasons. Yeah. And so we just finished it. It was the most episodes of any show ever done by Netflix.

Well, yeah, it was like, because that three camera situation doesn't always, it doesn't seem to work for them necessarily. But yours worked. It worked. Yeah. Yeah, it worked. And you know, you worked with people you like,

and I saw, you know, I didn't watch all of them, but was Dax in all of them or did he come in later? No, Dax came in the last, I think, 20, 25 or something like that. It was funny. I did his podcast, like one of the first episodes of his podcast. Right, right. And then left.

I was like, you know, we're writing this character who's this, you know, vet for this thing. You know, he comes in, he's my cousin. He's like, yeah, I'll do it. I'm like, great. Yeah? He's like, I was like it i'm like great that yeah he's like i was like i'm gonna call your agent he's like yeah call him yeah i'm gonna do it i was like okay great so it turned out but that show is not like it's not like two and a half men or the 70s show it's a heavy you know you can deal with heavy shit yeah it's like a combination of like comedy

and drama it was it i mean it was but it's like a three of like comedy and drama. I mean, it was. But it's like a three-camera thing. Like I noticed that about acting just because I do a bit of it now. And you just said that you liked doing that, the sitcom sort of acting, the three-camera stuff. And it's a real weird kind of unique skill set to be able to deliver drama in that format. Yeah. We had to figure it out because we hadn't uh i'd never done that before and you know you i think we figured out quickly like if they were like really dramatic scenes yeah uh you could do them in front of the audience if they were pseudo dramatic scenes

it was better to pre-tape them before we loaded the audience in what's the difference so we do a pre-tape day on thursday with no audience right uh and and then on friday we shoot in front of a live audience but pseudo dramatic just means what just if there were if it was a scene that went from comedy into drama the problem was the audience was so keyed into laughing all right that they would get to the drama and not be able to make the transition into taking it seriously right right or or laugh because you know you had like one guy in the audience that laughed because they thought it was a joke still right but it wasn't a joke and then it would blow the take yeah and it would pull the actors out of the dramatic moment that was building interesting um but if it was a really dramatic scene you could shoot it in front of the

audience and then you can hear a pin drop on that stage as long as it's not cluttered it doesn't come out of comedy yeah right oh that's interesting so, the, the stuff that had to kind of evolve, you know, like there's a couple of jokes and then you're all of a sudden you're into something serious. You had to shoot without an audience. It was much harder. Yeah. I mean, we, we, we just kind of had to figure out like when, what were the kinds of scenes that the audience could do and do well. Right. And then, and then oftentimes on some of the dramatic scenes, you'd need three, four takes and you don't want the audience to sit there and be belabored watching it three, four times. Right, right, right.

So it was a balance that we ended up figuring out probably after like halfway into this first season. And why are you ending it? The story was told. Yeah, I think that's a commendable thing. story was told yeah i think that's a commendable thing it was i i've been on shows where you keep going yeah and you keep going yeah and then you got a brother who's a gorilla and you know like i've done i've done this stuff right yeah and so it the story was told i love everything that we did everybody there was still you know highly in love with each other yeah we didn't have to do that thing where you know you you shoot a show for like four seasons everybody's salary

gets increased every year right and then you go i don't know if we can pay this much for you know yeah this discipline within our crew and so then you have to let go of people and then hire new people to reduce the salary yeah so you can contain the budget so then you have to let go of people and then hire new people to reduce the salary so you can contain the budget. We didn't have to do that. Yeah. We got to the point we were able to let everybody know that this was the last season. Yeah.

And that we're going to wrap it up. So everybody had time to find their next gig. And, you know, it's not like Netflix owns the show. So it's not like there was this big syndication. No, right. There's no back-end thing yeah there's a big syndication right boon that's gonna come if we shoot two more seasons yeah so the story was told and you don't have to beat it to death yeah good man well congratulations thank you

on your life I'm living one okay I don't want to do a different one I'll tell you that I'll keep this one. Good talking to you, man. Likewise. Thanks, man. There you go. That was Ashton Kutcher. The show is The Ranch. It's finishing up now on Netflix.

Final season is up. You can go to WTFpod.com slash tour for venue and ticket information for all of my winter tour dates. The few that are left, the seven or so that are coming up. And my special End Times Fun will drop

in March. Obviously, I'll give you more details about that leading up to it. And what else can I say? Oh, wait. I can. I think I can do music. I have a hotel room with a ukulele in it. And what else can I say? Oh, wait. I can. I think I can do music. I have a hotel room with a ukulele in it. Hold on. ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത്ത� Boomer Lives! So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats.

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