WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1096 - Ben Schwartz

Episode Date: February 10, 2020

Ben Schwartz was afraid to do plays in high school. In fact, if it wasn’t for his college girlfriend pushing him to audition for the school improv group, his life would be dramatically different. Ben talks with Marc about his early comedy ambitions which prompted him to sneak into MTV looking for a job, get an internship at the UCB, and become a page for The Late Show with David Letterman. Ben also explains how his confidence grew on camera playing Jean-Ralphio on Parks and Rec, why his mind is blown doing the upcoming show Space Force, and how he’s gravitating toward things he loved as a kid, like Sonic the Hedgehog. This episode is sponsored by Duncanville on Fox, Zoro.com, Capterra, and ZipRecruiter. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18-plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck nicks what the fuck buddies what the fuck wads what the fuckaholics how's it going i'm mark maron this is my show wtf and i'm trying to sit casually in a chair, and there's just like a certain angle where I have shooting pains in my back.

It's not always. It's not even sometimes. It's just occasionally if there's just a little turn to the—oh, man, right there. Right there. So, given the old adage, the old joke, Doc, it hurts when I do this. Yeah? Well, don't do that. I don't know. It's a little worse than that.

I'm going to the doctor in a couple weeks. Thanks for bearing with me through this difficult time of back pain, shooting back pain. Someone sent me the nicest little sculpture, like this weird little almost caricature-like piece of plastic sculpture, some sort of ceramic plastic of La Fonda. The late La Fonda has been immortalized in painting and now in sculpture. It's very exciting. I like the fan art and I like the memorials photos as well. To my late great cat La Fonda, RIP.

This will, maybe I'll get enough to create a shrine. I'm going to talk to Ben Schwartz today. I knew very little about Ben Schwartz. He's of a different generation, but I missed it. There's some guys I knew coming up. I did not know him coming up and I did not see a lot of his stuff, but I got into it. I researched it when given the opportunity. I said, I'll talk to that guy. He's a funny guy. He was in Lynn Shelton's movie, Outside In. Very good film with Jay Duplass and Edie Falco came out last year. And he's done a lot of stuff. And he's the voice of Sonic the Hedgehog in the new movie that comes out this Friday. I would like to say that Dino and I, Delray and I, will be in Orlando, Florida at the Hard Rock Live this Friday.

It's Valentine's Day. And then we're going to be in Tampa on Saturday at the Stras Center. And then the final run of dates will be the following week. Portland, Maine at the State Theater, Thursday, February 20th. Providence, Rhode Island at Columbus Theater, Friday, February 21st. New Haven, Connecticut at College Street Music Hall, Saturday, February 22nd. And Huntington, New York at the Paramount, Sunday, February 23rd. I got to get inside.

The Oscars are on. I can't. I don't know. I'm not gonna speculate I had to do this before because there's a second year in a row I've been invited to the Vanity Fair party last year I didn't go

because I'm like I didn't go to the Oscars why would I go to the party I'm not involved with anything that has to do with the Oscars why would I go to the party how would I not feel like a hanger on, like a, like just a star fuckery person, just a, what am I going to do there? I have this sense of me. I'm still have this sense that I'm some sort of outsider, some sort of marginalized, not marginalized, but marginal character in the great Pantheon in the great,

uh, celestial body that is show business. The galaxy of show business. I don't want to say I'm a black hole. I'm not a dead star. I'm just sort of a half a star. I'm just that guy over there who I talked to in his garage. That guy. That's the guy who does the thing in his garage and he's on glow. That guy.

Brad Pitt loves that guy. That guy. But I'm going tonight. You know, I went to the Indie Spirit Awards last night because Sword of Trust, the film I made with Lynn Shelton, was up for Best Editing

and it did not get it. Tyler, the editor, did not win, but we had a nice time. The food was good. I got in there. I don't know what to do when they let you into the tent. I'm going to go sit down and start eating. Everyone's outside.

The sun's beating down. We're all dressed hot. And people are just schmoozing and socializing. A lot of some people are on the red carpet. But they open the thing. I'm in. I'm going in. I'm going to start. So literally literally it's

just me and lynn in the entire in four other people in the tent eating what's on the table different tables it was me and lynn and chris hardwick and his wife about 10 tables away and i'm like this is what it's come to look at us apparently we're not eating at home but the show was pretty good. You never know with award shows. I didn't know what to expect. The last time I was there, I presented an award with Aubrey Plaza. Patton Oswalt hosted.

This year, Aubrey Plaza hosted. It was the second year she hosted. I didn't see last year, but I had no idea that she was this song and dance person. Great voice. She sang. There were dancers. It was all funny and dark and weird. It was like an old-timey award show with a little edge to it,

a little darkness, a bit of menace, because Aubrey's fucking weird in a good way. And it was good. It was entertaining. She did a great job. It was fun to be there. Who did I talk to? I know you're asking.

I was sort of on the outskirts my table was on the outskirts of the country that was the indie spirit awards but i went in i went in i floated around i said hi to people had some hugs shook some hands saw uh jim gaffigan and uh that was that was nice jim was uh always good to see jim gaffigan saw comedian byron bowers on the carpet that was uh that was nice always good to see him it's always good to see fellow comics amazed at where we are walking around on red carpets talking to people with microphones getting our pictures taken got inside the place and i was very excited to see the saft brothers. I wanted to do a part in Uncut Gems, but they cast a set of non-acting twins instead of me.

But I've met them a few times, and I liked their movie. I liked it better the second time. The first time, I couldn't see Adam Sandler in the part. I couldn't quite make it to where it needed to be for me. Second time, I thought he was great. Fucking excellent. And I've had problems with Adam in the past, but I think we're good. Had a nice chat with him last night.

He won the thing. I talked to him before he won. He's a very nice guy, very gracious, very nice to people, fans and stuff, I can tell. But he seems great. He's like, you know, there's a whole new generation of old Jews. He's one, I'm one. It's happening. The new generation of old Jews.

Apatow. Yeah, we're here. Ben Schwartz, though, today, I'm one. It's happening. The new generation of old Jews. Apatow. Yeah, we're here. Ben Schwartz, though, today. A little younger. I talked to, said hi to Ham. But I really went out of my way to congratulate Greta Gerwig on Little Women, which I think is the best movie of the year. That and Parasite. It was awkward, though, because her husband, Noah Bombeck, was right there.

So I told her she made the best film of the year, and I looked at him. I said, yours is good, too. And that had overcompensated. I said, as a guy who was divorced, even without kids, I found it to be very right on the money, triggering, uncomfortable, but kind of going back and feeling that process where you think it's not going to end, and then it does. Shit fades, folks. Things get worked out usually many times not but most of the time yeah one way or the other it levels off it levels off all in all a good time did leave and had minor meltdown both going and coming to the show

coming and going going it was sort of like, did I squander my talent? Did I wait too long? Did I not manage my talent correctly when I was younger? Was I too much of a loose cannon? Was I just not good at what I was doing? What happened? See these youngsters, the Nick Krolls of the world, the Ben Schwartzes of the world.

Why couldn't I have just been a nice, funny Jewish kid who had his shit together as opposed to a fucking needy, broken mess of fucking boundaryless emotions? Huh? And drugs, booze, wrong heroes, half the wrong heroes. Why couldn't I have just had it together enough? Woulda, coulda, shoulda. No good. Got through it.

I will let you know what I think of the winners. On Thursday also I will let you know how the Vanity Fair party was. Andre Royo, who I love, who used to live by me, whose wife had a great restaurant that I enjoyed, who is great as bubbles in the wire and anything he does he's great very new york dude brings the city with him you know what i mean he's one of those cats he exudes new york a certain type of new york but he comes up to me and he's like hey man I'm just standing there because I'm standing out there on the fringe and my part you know I'm in an I'm on an island I'm on the sad beach of the country of the Indie Spirit Awards out towards the side door and I'm standing there

because I'm looking at the excitement on the floor and the celebrities and the people coming and going just kind of with a sad, yearning look on my face. I don't have time during every break to run around and say hi to people I've talked to or people I think are my friends or people I hope will recognize me. I'm still a fanboy. That's why I want to get in there and watch the Oscars right now. But Royo comes up to me. He's like, hey, man.

I'm like, what's up? He's like, how are you, buddy? And I'm distracted because I feel like, why am I on the outside of this and he's misunderstanding that is like hey you changed man you can't look at me while you're talking to me I'm like why aren't we in there Andre why aren't we in the good tables where are you sitting pal I'm out here on the fringe no one's changed I just can't focus because I feel like we're not part of it. And he told me he's doing a production of talk radio, the play, the Bogosian piece at the actors gang.

And, uh, and he wants me to record the announcer's voice, which I said, of course, but I'm not big time in you, pal. I'm just wondering where do we fit in, brother? I know where I fit in. I do know. And I know more and more as each day passes.

My back hurts. My butt hurts from squats. My toes hurt. I'm not complaining. This is where I'm at. I am the new middle-aged cranky Jew. Here's the other thing. I think Defoe's got a problem with me.

But see, this is me projecting and assuming that I'm something I'm probably not. I interviewed Willem Defoe. And to be honest with you, if you listen to it, it was difficult because I feel like he was kind of prickly. I don't know if I said something. I don't know if I rubbed in the wrong way. I don't know, but I felt that. But we did the thing. And I saw him last night and I said hi to him and he looked at me like, but like I looked at him with familiarity and he looked at me with either like, Like, I looked at him with familiarity, and he looked at me with either, like, I don't like you, man, or who's this guy? I don't know which one it was.

I still don't. And then I was talking to the editor of the film The Lighthouse, because she's a fan of this show, WTF. I said, I don't think he likes me. She says, that's crazy. And then we're standing there talking to some other people and he walks up and ices me i say something to him just fucking literally walks through me and i'm like that's fucking for real so either he thought like who is this fucking guy he keeps showing up and looking at me and needs something from me or this is this fucking guy from the garage i don't know i still don't know. Who cares? I'm nuts.

It's not like we're buddies. And look, two people came up to me last night, said hi to me like I should know them, and I didn't know them, and they both sat down with me face-to-face and interviewed me for print interviews. No idea who they were. So how am I not going to be that guy for some of the people that I interview?

I'm not that memorable. Ray Liotta, on the other hand, came up to me and he's like, hey, you know, a lot of people listen to that thing. They liked it. It was great. Just casual talk. We just talked. I'm like, hey, buddy. Noah Baumbach gave two great speeches last night about writing. One about writing

because he won Best Screenplay and one about making movies. You should watch it at the indie spirit awards wherever you can watch him oh and by the way the safties won uh best director for uncut gems and you should watch that they did a very funny bit of business during their acceptance speech now ben schw Ben Schwartz, folks, he's of a generation of guys. I've talked to many of his friends, his peers. I know them all. Never really knew Ben, and he's done a lot of very funny things,

and I was happy to talk to him. He is the voice of Sonic the Hedgehog. You might know him from Parks and Rec and all the other funny shit that he does, and I got to know him, and you're going to hear it. The movie Sonic the Hedgehog drops Friday, February 14th. He's also starring in the new movie Standing Up, Falling Down, which is in theaters and on demand February 21st with Billy Crystal. This is me talking to Ben

upstairs in the house. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category,

and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Are you self-employed? Don't think you need business insurance? Think again. Business insurance from Zensurance is a no-brainer for every business owner because it provides peace of mind. A lot can go wrong. A fire, cyber attack, stolen equipment, or an unhappy customer suing you. That's why you need insurance. Don't let the, I'm too small for this mindset, hold you back from protecting yourself.

Zensurance provides customized business insurance policies starting at just $19 per month. Visit Zensurance today to get a free quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. You're married? No. Oh. I have a girlfriend. Yeah?

Yeah, but I never really talk about my personal life ever. What is that, a warning? Do you? Do I? Yeah. Constantly. Your relationship? I mean... Well, this one's fairly new. I'm starting to talk about my personal life ever. Was that a warning? Do you? Do I? Yeah. Constantly. Your relationship? I mean. Well, this one's fairly new.

I'm starting to talk about it. I'm starting to talk about, what do you mean? It's a policy you don't talk about your personal life? No, not policy. Oh. Nobody cares. I don't think that's true, Ben. I think that, you know, you guys can do your improvs.

Oh, wow, we're in it. I'm gonna spit out this thing. That was sucking on a candy just in case. That was genius. And it was all very good. Yeah. No, no, but I mean, is your girlfriend in the business? She is, yeah.

But I don't, yeah, you're right. I feel weird talking about it. I don't know why. It's weird. It is. Let's go, why do you think that? Do you feel like, well, you know know It is difficult To keep a private life Are you on Twitter

Instagram And Facebook I'm in those things Yeah but I've been Very careful never To leak anything Personal Just because

Leak Not leak Jesus What am I Fucking Deadline Hollywood Yeah No just the idea

That a private life Can be this And then I feel like business Is kind of up for grabs Because you know The whole idea Is you're putting

Stuff out there Sure The branding Do you use the word On brand Do you use that phrase no but i love it what would you call on brand for you you know this okay yeah yeah i don't know i uh what i do a joke i complained about using the word content and on brand like i did a rant about it and then i said that and if you know me that rant was very on brand got it yeah, yeah. That's as far as I've come. Have you done a branded content?

I guess you do commercials on your things. What does that mean? Like would you do like, hey, this is me, Mark Maron and this is a fucking guitar and you'll play it and then you'll like post it, would you ever do that or no? Well, I've done it not because I had to. You know, like I get sent shit and I think that's the idea is that people know that if you send someone presents

and they have any sort of social media presence, they will say like, look at what I got. I've done that. I'm very excited about this wallet. Some guy from the leather company that makes these sent me the wallet. Oh, it's nice. The stitching is gorgeous. It's great. And I was like, this is great. Look at this. And of course, that's exactly what they wanted. And that's fine. This obviously, you're here for a reason. So this is somewhat branded content, but it's not personal. That's true. Although I would do it even if I didn't have to do anything.

I feel like this podcast could lend itself to not, you don't have to plug in. No, you don't have to do anything. I'm not even gonna talk about what you're doing. I don't even know, I don't know what you've done really. I know. It's a different world for me. I have a question for you. A question that I often ask late night show hosts

and now that you have done so many episodes of this, do you really research? Do you, so many episodes of this do you do you really research do you do I do my own research no I have a I have a person no of course

yeah what do you mean do I really cause in my head when all these late night show hosts are like oh I saw your movie yesterday I was like there's just no way they have time to watch a movie every single night

do you really every single person that come in here have you been like alright I'm gonna watch some stuff I'm gonna read some stuff I have to I mean because like those guys you can sort of fake it for five minutes it's a little harder to fake for a long conversation but i mean

but i can also i'm in a position where i can be honest with you you know what i mean about what i've seen what i haven't seen my knowledge of you i don't want to hurt your feelings no please i can't wait for you to tell me i'm nothing obviously you're not nothing but generally I'll watch this is why I'm here you got a goddamn knife in front of me there's a knife literally in front of you but like let's start out though first of all I want to follow through

with this idea of I've made the mistake of putting too much of my personal life out in the world and to find that balance between personal life, because my brand is, you know, it's just me. You're open. I can't hide behind.

I'm open to a degree, but I talk about myself. And this is one of the fundamental sort of chasms between what we do as funny people. Sure. You and me. Yes. Like I watch you, you know, talk a lot and dance around and be funny and make references. That between what we do as funny people. Sure. You and me. Yes. Like I, I watch you,

you know, talk a lot and dance around and be funny and make references and engage and you sing things. I can't wait to find out what you think about improv. The way you just explained what I do. I see you walk around, dance around a lot, act like a goddamn goof. I didn't say that.

I didn't say that. Okay. We'll get there. I'm very impressed with their improv. I'm impressed with quick people. I think it's a fascinating thing. It's intimidating to me. Yeah.

But I do think it's interesting because I watched a few of the episodes of the early, early show. Oh, the early show. The early show. Actually, I'm proud that you watched that. That's a great thing that you watched. Yeah, it's great. I directed that too. Yeah, it's a great show.

And I've had Lauren Lapkus on. She's genius. She is a genius. But again, I didn't feel like I could get in there. And not that it's my need. I felt like I could connect with her to a certain degree, but if you're quick and you're funny and you're spontaneous, you know, you can kind of fool people out of, uh, ever really fully engaging personally. I think you, I think also the, the biggest thing you talked about, cause in personal life, you know, friends and everything, we're open book.

We, anytime I talked to anybody, you know, I love, to anybody, I love learning and getting into the psychology of things. But business-wise, I think that's smart. I never really thought about it. Stand-up, a lot of what you do, or maybe the stand-ups that I've seen, you have to let out all the personal stuff because a lot of your humor, you especially, you'll start with there and then you'll get to your jokes that go around there. But story, improv, a lot of your characters will come from things you've seen in your life and stuff like that but we never will we never really say things that are really happy like improv shows will be characters

and moments and whatever you're in that scene yeah you feel right but i never come in with a you know like my mom is like this or i i don't but you think it's implicit in what makes you up anyways like you don't need to address it specifically it's just there i think it's implicit in what makes you up anyways. Like you don't need to address it specifically. It's just there. I think that's what you call well-adjusted. It could be, yeah. I think that's a great line. I think also just, I really, I never thought about it before,

but stand-up stuff is really you opening yourself up. And I feel like the comedians that I love the most are the ones that I felt like I understood the most. Yeah. Or something else, same with bands that I found when they were early, the people you find before they really blow up and you feel like you have a connection with them. Sure.

Yeah. So with improv, there's aspects of that as well, because we all start, nobody gives a fuck about us. And then like slowly people like, Oh, I like these guys performing and this,

this, this, and then they have feel an attachment. Um, but you're right. Improv, you can kind of, but you don't go like,

but do you end up, you know, hating your improv heroes after they sell out? I mean, it's, it's weird with bands where you're kind of, you never have to say. But do you end up hating your improv heroes after they sell out? I mean, it's weird with bands where you're kind of like, that really connected to me emotionally, and then after the third record, you're like, I don't know who they are anymore. Yeah, I just did this thing on Twitter.

I'm really into albums being albums, because I grew up with a lot of best ofs. I got a whole room full of records downstairs. Yes, I know, I'm well aware. And guitars, supposedly, but I only see one here. There's four downstairs, and there's some in the closet You want me You want to go look in the closet

Right now No after Do you play guitar Yeah I'd love to I can fake guitar My mom's a music teacher And my dad plays guitar When I was growing up

So I love Like amateur guitar Yeah yeah Do you play with some guys Or does he play the folk guitar No He plays He plays

Like my age Yeah he's 72 He's your age He's exactly your age He's from the South Bronx He loves But like that's James Taylor like so it's like

folk stuff so he can finger pick and what not a little bit a little bit so wait we were just talking about we're all gonna die

yeah well that's that's inevitable and I think we're all sort of accepting that's difficult you know you can say it intellectually right you know it in your heart

and you know it in your mind we're gonna die I'm terrified of death yeah but like but do you are you actively terrified on a day-to-day basis? Do you have to get there? Let's say it's an acting exercise. I know I'm going to die.

I want it to be fast. As I get older, I feel it coming quicker. But I don't really get scared until I'm in bed and I've convinced myself that I'm dying soon. What does it take for you to get there? What does it take for you to feel like, fuck, I'm dying soon? A lump. Oh, like a scare. You need like-

Yeah, like I haven't felt well in a couple of days. Is this it? Yes. Is the cancer coming? Yeah, yeah, yeah. How is it going to happen? Oh, this is going to be great. Yes.

I understand all these things. I'll feel like a pain in a part of my body. You'll be like, oh, there's a tumor in there. Right, something. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's good. So you're self-centered and- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But even when I was a kid- Do you spin out though? I can, you know what I do? What's it you're self-centered. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But even when I was a kid. Do you spin out though? I can. You know what I do? What's it called? There's a spiral. I'll spiral. I like if one thing I can.

I think I have a little bit of OCD because I'll like harp on something quite a bit and like with numbers and stuff like that. But when I spiral, I'll go on one thing and I'll draw. I'll be the one that makes it bigger than it is in my head. Right. Always. Well, I think OCD even on because I think I have a little of it too, but I think that is, in a sense, sort of a kind of a replacement for a spiritual system.

I think there's something about repetition and focusing on something mundane or something that you can do over and over again that gets you out of yourself, that comforts you, that grounds you. It's like if you sort of get into a pattern of something. A rhythm, yeah. So you can kind of refocus and kind of ground yourself. of get into a pattern of something yeah so you can kind of

refocus and kind of ground yourself i find that a lot of my stuff uh because they're i mean i've learned that i was a psych major growing up i was a psychanthro major in college i wasn't this this didn't this wasn't and in my house this wasn't like a thing we talked about being an actor or writer some of that so um one of the things that i found is that like i know there's a huge spectrum of people that have severe ocd that i met and i talk about like oh i have a little bit I have a little bit of OCD that, like, you have no idea what you're talking about, which I agree. Yeah, it's miserable for those people. Yes, and on the lower end of the spectrum where I am, it's like when I lock my car, I have to go back and check sometimes when I lock my door. Yeah.

And I find it's a lot of safety stuff that I think my dad did, and, like, my dad likes being safe. So, like, all those things, I'll lock my car twice, I'll check it twice, I'll check the door twice. I'll leave the house and be like, fuck, I got to get back and check. Yeah. That's the stuff. But that's also probably an aspect of spiraling too, thinking of one thing and not letting it out of my brain until I make sure it's fine. Yeah, I guess so. I don't, like I've done, I've been doing a joke about it occasionally about how there

is a silver lining to OCD because every time you go back to see if the gas is on, every time it's not on, you get that same feeling of relief. Yeah, that's, yeah, you win either way. You either save yourself or you're right. Okay, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every time. It's a great line.

How many times do you get that in a day? You know what I mean? At 72, you still got it. Thank you very much. I'm still clicking. Don't read the comments. Not at 72, you still got it. I don't read the comments ever.

I read one comment, it unravels me completely. So let's go back. So Schwartz, I knew a Schwartz. So let's go back. So Schwartz, I knew a Schwartz. Everyone knows a Schwartz. Yeah, sure. My first pediatrician was a Schwartz. Okay. It was either a lawyer or a pediatrician? It was a sordid tale. He eventually, I don't know, something went wrong, killed himself in a hotel room. But nonetheless- Is that for real? That's for real. Oh my God. Dr. Larry Schwartz. It was a sad story where I grew up.

His son was my brother's good friend. And then, I don't know, he left his wife or his woman who works in his office and then that went wrong and he ended up in a hotel room. That's right. I apologize to bring it down. No, please. Let's see what happens while we're down here. There's a full range of Schwartz. Oh, yeah. There's a lot of Schwartz's. Schwartz means son. Yeah, there's non-Jew

Schwartz's and Jew Schwartz's. I don't think I met a non-Jew. Oh, yeah. German. Schwartz? Yeah, something like that. No, I think there is. Yeah, I think there's a couple of names that you assume are Jew, but they can go either way. Yeah. And you're always disappointed when they're not.

Yes. You're like, Jew? And they're like, what? No. Yeah. How is that possible? What a bummer. Yeah, we were so close.

How are you a Rosenberg and not- Your name is Moishe Dridowitz and you're not Jewish? How is that possible? How is that possible? How is that possible? My parents were hippies. That doesn't make sense. No. None.

So, okay. So where'd you grow up? I grew up in Riverdale, which is the northern part of the Bronx. Oh, the Bronx. It's pretty. It's really pretty. Yes. Very pretty.

And then my parents grew up in the southern Bronx. What does that mean? 176 and Grand Ave is where they- You say that like it's like another part of the country. The southern Bronx versus Riverdale By the way people in the Bronx I learned at a young age that I can't say like Hey I'm from the Bronx

They're like you're not You're from the north You're from like right near Westchester You're not from Fort Apache That's exactly They're like this is so I've learned But my parents were from there Grew up poor

Stuff like that Worked their butts off So me and my sister could have a beautiful middle You grew up poor Jews? I was middle class My parents worked there. Working Jews, it's nice. Yes, my mom has been a music teacher for 50 years, I think.

My aunt's a teacher and like, yeah, it's nice, it's noble. It's great. Yeah, and your dad, what, social work? My dad, yeah. Oh my God, you do do research. Oh, I brought it up. Briefly, but I didn't know that. What's the one thing that you learned from research,

researching me that you were like happy with? One thing. That I was happy with? Or just the one thing that stuck out. Well, the way I do research is I just kind of dig bits and pieces and see if something congeals. Okay. And I think what I connected to immediately after reading a bit and then watching some stuff you did was that you are the kind of sort of bright well-adjusted um you know a person a jew that has boundaries and is able to apply his talent and intelligence to his life

uh whereas i you know struggle with all of those so i we're the perfect yin yang that's right i'm like he's exactly the kind of smart jewish kid that I really resent most of the time. Would you ever do improv? If I asked you to come on stage? Aren't we doing it? Yes, but I'm saying if we went on stage and got a suggestion, do you think you could do it and not be like, this is fucking stupid? No, it's not that it's fucking stupid.

I just get intimidated. I think, look, I improvise all of my standup. That's how I write. And this, all these. Sure. That's how I write. I go up there and I got nothing. Last night I did three sets and I started with some ideas and see if they evolve and you know where they and I find the funny on stage alone yeah I

do feel a lot of pressure from the pace of improvisation I haven't done a lot of it I've stayed away from it because I find that uh like it makes me uh insecure it makes me nervous it makes me like it feels too competitive to me that's so funny because stand-up to me is the thing that feels so competitive. I started off trying to do stand-up at the beginning, and I found it very difficult. Very difficult and very lonely. Because at the beginning, it's those bringer shows, and also you're doing five minutes mostly amongst other comedians. And it was very scary to me and stuff like that.

And then when I did improv, it felt like if I failed, I failed with a group. Maybe that makes me whatever. I guess that's one way to look at it. Or maybe you get off and you failed with the group but they're like what the fuck happened out there ben that's interesting like it's you yeah yeah like how did you drop the ball on that yeah you said no yeah don't yeah that's all it takes i guess well no and the whole thing's fucking over you fucking idiot yeah you fucking asshole why'd you make it about you we were in a good flow yeah but uh so like and i judged improv for a long time,

but I find that you guys seem to, you have a nicer, you integrate better. You know what I mean? Okay. Into the society? Into the society, into show business. You know, you do the improv thing. You know how to work with people.

You know how to write things. You know how to produce things. Writing has been a little bit easier since I improv. Writing has been part of it. Yeah, because you're working with people. You know, stand-ups are weird, you know, gypsies. They're out by themselves. They're morally corrupt.

They're out in the world in hotel rooms a lot of times. It's another planet. Yeah. But there's a whole generation of stand-ups that are of your ilk that are seemingly more well-adjusted. But I don't know, man. You want to get in there. You want to see what's really going on.

Well, it's weird because it took me a while to understand Mulaney because- Oh, I love Mulaney stuff. No, I'm sure. And he's of your generation. Sure. But it was something about his patter that alienated me. It just was moving too quickly. It seemed a little disingenuous.

It was almost a character. But then I watched him a little bit. I'm like, oh, he's talking about some seriously dark shit here. He's just sort of burying it in this kind of almost 1930s ish patter. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He feels like an old comedian. Okay, so your parents, old school, kind of like

liberal, progressive, educational Jews. Yes, Jewish, Democrats fighting for any type of rights they can fight for for everybody. Very, very wonderful parents. How many siblings? One sister who's a therapist now and a wonderful human being with two kids. So really, that's nice. So therapy was, did you do therapy when you were younger? No, I started therapy when I was 30, some 32, which is funny because my dad was a social worker. My sister, you know, was a therapist and I was a

psych major, but I don't know why I waited so long, but I love therapy. Well, let's talk about social work because I'm sort of fascinated with that. I don't know a lot about it. Sure. I've interviewed one social worker but she's more of a, not a clinician, more of a researcher, Brene Brown. I'm kind of fascinated with it.

To me, it seems like a very thankless kind of noble job to sort of be there for people who need it, who might not be able to afford it as a service to sort of help better the fucking world. Yes. And so he did that. It seems like a harrowing thing. My dad worked at the YMHA,

which is like the Jewish version of the YMCA, and he worked in it in the Bronx, and then later he went into real estate, but he did that for quite a bit. So my experience with him doing that type of stuff is going to our version of the YMCA and there being basketball and stuff like that. But not a Jewish community center.

No, it wasn't like a JCC. Maybe it was. I don't know. Sounds kind of. Yeah, it sounds kind of like it. It was fun. You were what? Young when he got out of it or what?

He got out of it when I was around 11. Oh, so you know. We moved to Westchester when I was 11. So he did all right in real estate. He did all right in real estate. Allowed us to go to Westchester. Yeah, nice. Westchester's nice.

Very nice, suburbs, stuff like that, yeah. Like Chappaqua, where were you? No, but Chappaqua is where my sister lives. Oh, really? Yeah, we lived in a place called Edgemont, which is right next to Scarsdale. It like owns, it's the same place. Very fancy.

I got new friends from Scarsdale. Oh yeah? Yeah, I had some friends, the Melmans. David Schwartz, Larry Schwartz? No, I don't know them, don't know them. Didn't he pass away, wasn't that your pediatrician? That was Albuquerque. Albuquerque, of course. I grew up in Albuquerque, yeah. So Stephen Schwartz was Larry Schwartz? No, I don't know them. I don't know them. Didn't he pass away? Wasn't that your pediatrician? That was Albuquerque. Albuquerque, of course.

I grew up in Albuquerque. Yeah. So Stephen Schwartz was probably still around. But all right, so you're Jewing it up. You're Schwartzing it. Oh, my God. I am Jewing it up. What was your theme for your bar mitzvah?

It was before themes. So what did you do? I'm like, what do we do? You know, my guitar teacher's band played. So I was able to sit in with the band for a couple of months. Oh, you must have loved that. And we, you know, we did it at the house. The party was at the house.

I remember my mother was upset with the photographer because he got drunk and he was wandering around. There was a lot of backs of people. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure. You had a theme? Did you have a bar mitzvah theme? Basketball. I love basketball. So, so did what? yeah, yeah, sure. You had a theme? Did you have a Bar Mitzvah theme? Basketball, I love basketball.

So, what, there were outfits, every table had a team? Every table had a basketball on it and we gave away little backboards to everybody so they could shoot around and stuff like that. With your name on it? No, we didn't have that kind of money. You would think, move west, we would have that kind of, just like, no.

And then everybody signed a picture of me and my German shepherd. I think that was the thing you signed. Uh-huh. Yeah. How'd you do on the bar mitzvah? Did you do Friday and Saturday? How Jewish are you?

Conservative, Reform? No, we are not that. We always, when we talk about Judaism, my family's like, we love the tradition of it, love the family of it, but we're not going to synagogue very often outside of maybe a high holy day. I guess you would call it that.

So what, just the Friday night you did, probably with another kid on your bar mitzvah? One day, yeah. Yeah, we doubled it up. We got a cheaper price. They do that sometimes. No. Yeah, I've seen it a lot So what, just the Friday night you did, probably with another kid on your bar mitzvah? One day, yeah. No, yeah, we doubled it up. We got a cheaper price. They do that sometimes. No. Yeah, I've seen it a lot. With the same rabbi?

Yeah, no, no, they just, like, it's just the date falls on the same date and they split up the service and there's two bar mitzvahs and they knock it out. I had the same rabbi who did my parents' wedding and then did my sister's bar mitzvah. Really? And then was like a rebellious rabbi who went and like fought causes.

It was great. And then right after that, we did the party at some you know the righteous rabbi righteous rabbi yeah we could write that quibi show in like two days yeah be great hell yeah yeah uh so all right so as a kid you're fascinated your sister's older sister's three years older her name is marnie well that's nice yeah she's older sister so that you know that's a good influence for you man that probably helps me be well adjusted. She was the one that introduced me to rock music and stuff like that. Her musical taste really affected my musical taste.

Now, this is interesting because I don't know that I've talked to a guy who had the older sister run in the show in terms of influences. Well, think about your older sibling. No, I know. It's usually- Always the cooler. She knows far more than I do about that stuff. Right.

Well, usually I remember most of who I've talked to, they have older brothers or they got the guy they know from down the street who's got an older brother. There's some source, but the source for you was your sister. For rock music, it was my sister. So for Pink Floyd and Guns N' Roses. Oh, so she was hard. It really connected with her. She did the thing.

And then I went to, I was really big into soul music because my parents, we grew up on like Sam Cooke and Jackie Wilson and Stevie Wonder. Those are the things when we had our CD player. Yes, that's what they loved. And then we would do Paul Simon and we would do James Taylor, Jim Croce. So like it would go between those two a lot. I think Paul Simon is required for Jews.

I think it's, you have no choice. Simon and Garfunkel is in everybody's. For sure. Yes. I am a rock. You have to be. I mean, there's definitely a bridgekel is in everybody's. For sure. Yes. I am a rock. You have to be. I mean, there's definitely a bridge over some sort of water. For sure.

Yeah. Yeah. But then from that, my musical taste really pushed into R&B and hip hop, but I would listen to very smooth R&B in the 90s. Tony Braxton? Tony Braxton is one of them, but there's a guy named David Hollister that I listened to, and all these, or Genuine, where my friends would come into the car, and it'd be very sexy in my car, and a little bit too weird for everybody. So I had to slowly go from that to rap and stuff

like that. A slow song at the club in your car? Yeah, I loved it, because it reminded me of, there's a guy named Music Soulchild that's still around who sounds like Stevie Wonder. So I listened to him because he sounded like Stevie, and then I started loving that music. Right. And just loving all of that music. That's great music. Yeah. It's weird because

on the first Paul Simon record and on the Simon Garfunkel record, I think it was first where I started to visualize sex. Which track made... Well, like Cecilia, Making Love in the Afternoon is Cecilia up in my bedroom, right?

And then there's a song called Duncan on the first solo album, Paul Simon's, Duncan is my name and here's my story. Oh, I don't know it. Yeah, and he makes love to a girl in the tent, I think, or outside somewhere. Oh, and that's so- And I was just sort of hearing it

in the back of the station wagon, like, what is that? What are they doing? Were you listening to music when you lost your virginity? Were you listening to music? No, I was just in a lot of panic. And there was no- Like a Kathy cartoon? Were you listening to music when you lost your virginity? Were you listening to music? No, I was just in a lot of panic. And there was no... Like a Kathy cartoon?

Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, it was like it was... I had much too long to think about it. She was older. She was a waitress at this restaurant I was working at. Oh, wow. I was like 16 or 17. And it was sort of like, you know, we're going to do this, you know, come over at this time.

And it was not great. It was not... There was not a lot of feelings there. I was attracted. It took more time than it should have. Did it turn you off to having sex because of it? No, I think I saw, like, I think innately, like the first decade of my sex was sort of like, I'm going to get this right. I'm going to get the hang of this. Yeah. I'm going to nail this. I'm going to master this. Eventually I'm going to get this Yes And it took you know

A decade at least Sure of course What about you? What were you listening to When you first did it? The TV was on I forget what thing But I remember the TV being on

Because I was able to watch TV And then we were And then things started happening That's funny because Like there is that moment And I think it still happens To this day with people Where you know

Theoretically you could've Turned the TV off but you couldn't no it started to happen oh my god if you were panicked imagine i'm like a fucking jewish muppet yeah i'm like okay here we go here we go here we go oh my god this is happening yeah no time to yeah you just hope that it's not like a horror movie or something weird in the background so uh did you like the girl i did like the girl were you like boyfriend and girlfriend kind of thing? No, we had done stuff a little bit before that I went to college. And I had this realization in college. I had this thought that, oh, I feel like I'm going to lose my virginity to just someone random or something like that. It's in your mind. You got to do it. It's something you have to get done done and if you get out of high school and it's still there it's problematic i didn't i didn't uh i did a freshman

year i don't think yeah or the first term of freshman year i didn't and me and my roommate as jokes put zeros above our beds i said i really thought you're gonna say me and my roommate just did it we weren't gay yeah just fucked no we had to the way we had just get it just mark it up on the board kind of and we loved it I have not talked to him since. It was awkward. It was awkward, but it felt perfect. It felt right. And to be honest, I don't feel like I've ever had sex after that because that's all I know.

I think you've got to reevaluate your life. I think we're finding the reason why you don't like talking about your personal life. Yeah, I think this is- Because it's all a lie. All of it. All of it. Okay. But from that experience, I was like, you know what?

There was someone in high school that was so much fun that we didn't even like boyfriend, girlfriend, but we like all this stuff. Yeah, fooled around. So we hung out and did that and it was great and it was super fun and I liked the idea of doing it with someone I knew and trusted and stuff like that. And then when I went back to college, it didn't feel as big of a deal. But there was that moment. Oh, so you went home

from college. It was trimester, so we went home for big chunks two times. And you just were sort of like, hey, what's up? And you up and you did yeah and it was just totally awesome had she done it she probably had yeah yeah you didn't do any research she definitely had okay yeah yeah yeah yeah she i mean she 100 okay yeah now we're diminishing our character yeah she oh my god no no no she was loved but it was really fun to do it with somebody that I trusted and liked and thought was a cool person. And because I remember being in college and they're feeling like pressure. And that stuff, hitting on women and stuff like that, I'm not great at that stuff.

So it's like, it felt like a lot of pressure. And then I was like, oh, I'm just going to lose it to like some random person. Right. How much more fun would it be to lose to someone who's fun and we're both on the same page. That's not going to laugh at you. And we dig each other.'re both on the same page? That's not going to laugh at you. And we dig each other and it's like, exactly. We're not going to laugh at you. You're pushed for sex.

Yeah, you don't want to be in an embarrassing situation. Have you had sex where it's very embarrassing? I'm sure. I mean, isn't it all embarrassing at some levels if you break it down? Like, you know, if you pull yourself out of the zone for a second, usually there's like, this is ridiculous. What are you doing down there?

So, you know. What are you doing down there? That's true. But it's interesting, you can talk about your past personal life but not your current personal life. I like keeping it separate. What, your past and your current? Yeah, just my current stuff.

I don't know, personal stuff to me sounds like, I don't know, I see there's some huge stars that they can't do anything. I'm obviously nowhere near that. I'm the lowest end of the spectrum. But then I have some friends that are movie stars that have just been like, oh yeah, I just don't ever talk about this stuff.

And then nobody goes into it. And I was like, oh, that sounds so fun to have something that's mine. And then they're- Well, it's nice because it's a boundary, it's called. And you know the psychological patter, psychology patter, banter. It's maintaining a boundary.

I think that's it. Because as soon as you let a little out, that means when you're walking around, instead of people asking you about Parks and Rec or whatever, they're like, how's, what's her name? Yeah, and it feels more like, but the best part is all my friends that I know will ask, of course, or ask my parents.

Who are your friends? So far, it's you. Yeah. Downstairs. Yeah. Couple cats. That's basically it. No, but, like, who's your crew?

So I have one or two guys from high school that I've had for my whole ride. But, like, who are your personal friends that I know? Because I knew you'd come up with a certain crew. Oh, there's a group. So, like, there's this guy named Gillo Zeri that I'm very close with. I don't up with a certain group. Oh, there's a group. So like there's this guy named Gil Ozeri that I'm very close with. I don't know if you know him. He lives in Glendale, very nearby.

But I think he's the funniest person I've ever met in my life. Really? Is he in show business? Yeah. He's an improviser. Me, him, and a guy named Adam Pally. Who do you mean? I know Adam Pally. No, I didn't have him on the show, but I like him. I thought there was talk of it. He's another Jew that does the Jeff Bain movies, right?

Yes, he does Jeff Bain movies. Yeah, I like that guy. He seems like somebody I would relate to. Yes, he's lovely. He seems like a nice guy. He seems a little more tormented than you. Doesn't seem the same kind of Jew as you. Yeah, you probably get a juicier conversation.

You guys are different frequency of Semitic. Yes, which is funny because him, me, Adam, and Gil had a team called Hot Sauce, and that was kind of what hit us in improv. Nobody was coming to our shows, and then slowly people were coming to our shows. And then I feel like you always remember that group. Yeah. So Gil was one of those people in that group,

and it's just the guy that I've stayed very close with and also just always been close. So that was the first crew? Hot Sauce was the first crew? Hot Sauce was the one that hit. We went to the Montreal Comedy Festival the first year they invited sketch teams. Wow.

Which was big because Bob and David were hosting it. So for us, that's insane. I remember when Bob and David were in Montreal. I remember. Just. They were. I don't think. Were they doing.

I think they were doing it together. But there was a guy up there the year on the French week that actually he could you know farted songs it was like a legit actual flatulence yeah yeah and i think bob and dave did a bit where he they mocked that guy like i think bob was off stage making the fart sounds and dave was putting the mic in his oh that's great yeah uh okay wait so let's let's go back before we get into hot sauce because it seems very important. Sure. So you don't do any theater or comedy in high school? None because I was too afraid.

I was too afraid that I'd audition and they'd tell me it wasn't funny or good. Audition for what? Oh, for plays? For musicals because my mom was a music teacher. So I was in all county. You seem to like to sing. I do like to sing.

I was an all county chorus when I was in high school. A soprano when I was in high school. Really? Yep, and then my voice dropped. But I was always afraid that. I was an all-county chorus when I was in high school. A soprano when I was in high school. Really? Yep. And then my voice dropped. But I was always afraid that if I auditioned, I'd find out I'm not good at any, I'd find out I'm not good, I'm not a good singer. So I just never took the chance. And it took me a while.

Like, for comedy, it was a big deal for me to go after it. So in college, my girlfriend at the time in college pushed me to audition for the improv team. By the way, she's wonderful, and thank thank goodness for her because I wanted to so badly audition for the improv team. Yeah. But in my head, everybody in my little group of friends thought I was very funny. In college. In college. Second year. Yeah. And so I was afraid that if I auditioned for the people that were really funny because they made the group, I would find out that I'm not funny and I'm terrible. And so I was really nervous i never i didn't wouldn't have done it if she didn't push me i

wouldn't have done it and i don't know what my job would have been by the way in general you don't know where your life would have gone yeah i was a i went for one summer i worked at a sneaker store in college and the next summer probably another sneaker store and then i did a sneaker stores same secret store two years in a row in white plain uh bronxville maybe yeah and store and then I did two sneaker stores how is that possible same sneaker store two years in a row in White Plain Bronxville maybe and then a paralegal I tried to I tried to be like

a temp for a paralegal so you went through that like six month period where like I'm gonna be a lawyer dad my dad literally my dad was like I can try to get you

a thing as like a temp at a paralegal thing I'm gonna be a lawyer dad literally so then so I was like I guess this is what I'm gonna do

and I just never because also nobody in my family was an actor or anything so it wasn't yeah but that's interesting to me is that like there, there is that, that, that fear that, I mean, you obviously had it, it's sort of confidence problem about, you know, auditioning, but that can be paralyzing. Right. And, and it can really be painful and, and, and lead to a lot of sort of self-judgment and self-abuse. Absolutely. So once this woman convinced you to do it,

did that kind of work for the rest of your life? Was it that audition that you realized, I can do this? The audition I remember going not great because I was so nervous. There have been a couple times where I'm in a situation where I'm just so nervous. Oh, you just spend the whole day or a week thinking about it?

Oh my God, yeah. That's the worst, man. At the beginning of your career also. The worst. When you're a comic and you've got five jokes the whole day or a week thinking about it oh my god yeah that's the worst man at the beginning of your career the worst when you're a comic and you've got five jokes and you just spend

a week before you have to do three minutes yeah I'm sure just kind of like oh fuck this is gonna be and it's like

and you look back at that like what the fuck were we thinking and it probably ruined you probably the most nervous I was for an audition was for the Harold team

which is the house team for UC Upright Citizens I was cause I wanted so badly to be a part of it. And we were doing shows, but you weren't considered a part of the theater back then in New York until you were on a house team,

because that means one of the higher ups said he's good enough to be on a house team. And I was so nervous, and I remember I auditioned three times, first time I was too young, I barely started doing improv, I shouldn't have done it. Second time I was. Too young for improv. That's a really grown up thing.

You really gotta, it's like you don't wanna get in there too young. In terms of classes. In terms of classes. I'd taken like one class. I just wasn't mature enough to handle the improv.

To pretend I could jump into someone's asshole and it'd be a different universe. I just wasn't there yet to play a clown that also farts out of his dick. Not yet, but soon I was able

to really take that on. Thank God. I had to find that. I had to center his dick. Not yet, but soon I was able to really take that on. Oh my God. Thank God. I had to find that, I had to center myself. But seriously though, do you think that first moment where she talked to you into it and you got through it, and you got on the improv thing in college? I think I did poorly, and then her friend, her name was Tina and her friend's name was Katie,

and Katie was on the improv team, and she's like- She went to bat for you? She might have, and she probably helped me. Or maybe, by the way, oftentimes I'll come out of an audition and be like, fuck, I sucked.

And in the elevator, I'll do this. If nobody's in the elevator, I'll go over my lines over and over again on the entire elevator I've done. On the way home? Yep, on the way down from the elevator.

Let's say I audition and I go into the elevator. This is if I wasn't happy with what I did. And I'll replay it being like, what? No, this is how I should,

you know, or hear it in my head yeah because oftentimes also when you audition it's the first time you're doing it with somebody yeah do you ever go back and go like hey hey sorry oh I got it this time I got it this time there was an audition for a big thing I did once where yeah I did it once and I realized I wasn't I wasn't going to be chosen but I really wanted to be in the movie so I was like hey can I get one more I'm so sorry yeah and I did it again and I could see that their faces they're so nice but I could see I wasn in the movie. So I was like, hey, can I get one more? I'm so sorry. And I did it again. And I could see that their faces, they're so nice, but I could see I wasn't going to get it.

And I was like, one more? And he's like, so nice. He's like, okay, Ben, one more. And then I was like, oh, I'm not getting this role. But they knew you. I think they knew of me. Nobody knows me. So your second year of college, what college?

Went to Union College. It's a liberal arts school in upstate New York in Schenectady, New York. I know where Schenectady is. Oh, nice. Yeah, one of my roommates from college came in Schenectady, New York. I know where Schenectady is. Oh, nice. Yeah, one of my roommates from college came from Schenectady. Did he go to school there? No, he went to school in BU.

I was at BU. Schenectady used to be called the Electric City because GE came there and brought an influx of money. And then GE slowly sucked the money from the city. And then Electricity left. But isn't it insane? Yeah. It still had the nickname Electric City even though that was one of the things that was.

There's so many great cities up in like Troy, Albany, Schenectady. Yes, that's right on the house. Like Troy is another kind of beat up city but there's such beautiful history there and beautiful buildings. I did a show in Troy in a concert hall from the 1800s that had perfect acoustics and it was crazy.

Yeah. They still had the racks on the back of the chairs for top hats. Oh that's amazing, I love shit like that. Yeah and it was crazy. Yeah. They still had the racks on the back of the chairs for top hats. Oh, that's amazing. I love shit like that. Yeah, it was amazing. I have a typewriter. I love using my typewriter and sending out real letters.

I love using things they were back in the day. Sure, it's like time travel. Yes. Yeah. That really connected it. I will say that when the audition for that initial improv thing was incredibly nervous, but the thing that started gaining me confidence

was doing the rehearsals and having people laugh and that's what slowly gave me confidence. Having an audience. And having someone validate Right. Someone that had been doing it for a little bit

saying that I was funny was a very, very big deal. But you said you were funny to your group of friends so you kind of knew you could land the shit, right? Yeah, but you know how many of us are fucking funny

to our group of friends I know, but were you annoying? Were you annoying? I wonder. I guess to some people. Probably. I'm sure I'm'm annoyed. Cause I feel like, I feel like you, you like to like, and I'm, I'm pretty easily annoyed, but for some reason you don't annoy me, but I think you could be annoying. Okay. That's great. You think I had that switch? No, no. I just think it's like, depends who you are. Like for some reason, like, like there's people who

are, but you're very funny and you're very quick and, and, but there's, but there's a confidence there that would generally get under my skin, but it doesn't. I'm happy about that. Because I feel like I'm not, maybe. I think there is a fundamental thing in there. I don't know if it's a Jew thing. I think it's like you may be confident, but you're still neurotic. Yes, well, very much so.

Confidently neurotic. Do you know what also I find that's been very helpful? I was a psychanthro major. I didn't think I was going to do this. So I didn't like the first time I started. You said that twice. You didn't think you were going to do it. Really proud.

But what did you think you were going to do with a psychanthro major? You're absolutely correct. I don't even know what my options were. You didn't think you were going to do this. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but what you're going to say, you didn't think you were going to do this. I didn't think I was going to do this. Oh, I didn't think I was going to do this. So my whole background didn't involve researching movies or tv or comedy so i

like got my education or whatever version of that education was uh so when i came into acting later um it was like so fresh and new and all that stuff and i came in with the experience of being uh those things and researching those things uh what the psych and anthro yeah because i feel like i've met a bunch of people and i've met people who've been acting since they've been like five and they're incredible uh but then i've met people that have been acting since five and they have a different kind of flow to them because their life has been consumed by entertainment no i think that's true and i think that it's like a fairly i mean there are people that love things like i love the movies and stuff but like there's a generation that's younger than me that you like you're you guys

are younger yeah where you know you actually the the information about show business had broken open enough that the process of getting into it was fairly, you know, well documented. Yeah. Like for when I was a kid, 13 or 14, and the first season of SNL was on, it was just you. There was no way for me sitting in my living room, staying up too late, could even figure out how one gets there. Of course. But over time, because of like access and, you know, the breaking open of media in general, there are people that are like, I studied it. I knew how he got in. I knew how this guy got in.

I knew the whole system. And, you know, there was a path that I could at least try to take. Yes. That seemed to be possible. I think so. I think also the thing that came out when I was coming up, YouTube just came out. Uh-huh.

And like College Humor, all these things. So I also knew that. Yeah, none of that. We had none of that. We had three stations and comedy clubs. Yep. There was no outlet for you to be seen by more than, like when we do improv shows at the beginning for nobody,

only the people that would know us are the people that came to that improv show but then slowly i saw that things were going on the internet so you had to i had to learn how to make videos and who to hook up and you did do it i work i've that is one thing that i've uh because my parents worked hard every single day so i but you but right but you worked in a way that you know served your talent you didn't just sort of spin yes but i also did anything i could so like there was a freelance job at toy fair magazine so i wrote for anybody that would let me write i freelance exactly it's a magazine that would highlight toys that are coming out or wizard which is like a comic book um i was probably uh 21 all right let's go back though real quick so anthro and

psychology now these like you majored in anthropology undergraduate? You got your degree in anthropology? I did a dual major. It was called an interdepartmental major, so it was anthro and psych. Okay, and was that a common thing, or you decided that? I realized- You could do it, you did it. I found in college that I would just keep taking classes with the teachers I liked,

and the teachers were in psychology and anthropology. I did that, too, and then you kind of cobbled together a major. That's literally what happened. You're sitting there going like, what, I can have a film studies minor? Yep. Through the art history department with one other class? Fuck, great. Because who knows what they're going to do in college? I had no idea. Some people, I mean, most people just waste the time, but I think some people, well, I mean, I think given, like you brought up similarly to me, if you have supportive parents that want you to learn, like there's a certain premium put on education, certainly with Jews, it's just a traditional thing.

Absolutely. You better be smart when they come to get us so you can fit in somehow. It's a survival technique. For sure. That's so funny to even think about that. Become necessary or else you're going to go down. Yes, have a skill set quickly. That's right.

That's right. That's right. Learn to do something they can't. Or else they'll just put you in the ground. Education was not even a thing to debate. It was always going to be that way. It's also a Talmudical thing. It is always been there. Yes, studying the Torah and stuff like that.

Right. Well, yeah. But I was encouraged to do whatever. In some ways, I wish I had more focus. But I did appreciate the general liberal arts education. Yep. But what were you—like, anthropology to me, like, I could—I think that would be very interesting. I mean, what was—

It was. I think you'd love it, by the way. So for my senior thesis, George Gemelch and Sharon Gemelch were the anthropology teachers that I had. Gemelch. G-M-E-L-C-H. I like that name. It's a great name. And they—every year, they would do a term abroad.

I never left the country. My parents don't really— The Gemelches would go abroad? That's a great name. And every year they would do a term abroad. I never left the country. My parents don't really. The Gemelches would go abroad? That's exactly correct. We can do that fucking Crackle series too if you want. But so we went to Ireland. I'd never been anywhere. I was just there.

I love it. I've been there three times now. I love it. What the fuck is with us, man? But where did you stay? Dude, I've been obsessed with Ireland for years. It's gorgeous. And I know, but I can feel it deeply.

I'm like, I'm not Irish. I'm a Jew. Why is this happening? But they're heavy-hearted people. They're reflective, poetic people. They've taken some shit. But we just went. The person downstairs and myself. The wonderful person. Oh, she's the best. The director lady.

We went to Kilkenny. Out of nowhere, what compelled you to go? I like the word compelled. I love it. I use it a lot. It's from The Exorcist. And if you can use any word of the day shit you have, please throw it out here now. Compelled is great.

What compelled you to go to Iron Room the first time? It's because one of my favorite teachers, George Gemelch, was doing it. The Gemelches. Yep. And then I could do my senior thesis a year early. He said, you do it a year early. He says, what's your thesis? And we came up with sports as a microcosm of society

because over there, they have hurling and Gaelic football and they all do it amateur. They don't get paid real money. Gaelic football? Yeah, I believe. I believe that's what it's called. Okay. Hurling was the big one that I did.

Hurling almost looks like a field hockey stick. Yeah, yeah. But it's like the fastest, exactly. Or you hit it, the fastest. It's like the strongman games, you know, like where they throw the lumber. What is that? You know, where they're running a tree. Yeah, yeah, and you throw the thing. But it's like the fastest, exactly, the fastest, or you hit it, the fastest land. It's like the strongman games, you know, like where they throw the lumber. What is that? You know, where they're running a tree.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's old school. It's Viking shit. It's very, it's like, I think it was the fastest, but I interviewed 60 amateur Irish athletes because, and then interviewed athletes here and saw what the difference was in culture and stuff like that. What'd you find? I found that there they do it for like the true love of what it is because they don't get

paid. They're kind of like heroes, but they all have real jobs. Yeah. And then here, there's two things about it. Gunning for the big time. If you talk to the professionals, it seems that they lose the love a little bit, right? Yeah. But also, there's a huge social aspect.

When I was in Ireland, I joined St. Patrick's Cathedral basketball team because I wanted to immerse myself in it, whatever. I was the only Jewish person ever. In Ireland? Yes, and no joke. The only Jewish person ever in Ireland, in the basketball league. And no joke, a kid came up to me, not trying to be mean, of course, we would take him in, and asked if I had horns.

Yeah, I felt your head. No joke. I know, I've had that. And I'd never had that before until that. And I was like, oh, anti-Semitism is. My dad also said when we were picking colleges, he's like, you know, you've been in a lot of cities that are predominantly Jewish, just so you know, like, you know, when you go to these other places, whatever.

Keep a low profile. Yes. People would smoke at halftime. People would have pints right after. Anytime we played, we'd go to a bar, have pints. We'd all talk. And then in America, oftentimes when I play basketball with people, you go, you work out, and that's it.

You don't see those people. And I thought it's such a cultural, social fun thing there. And here oftentimes it's to get a sweat, it's to work out, it's to just see people for like an hour and then go back. And also, yeah, well, I think that a lot of stuff in America has become more about self-realization than group realization or community realization. Yeah. It seems like the momentum is around, you know, self, you know, embracing the self.

Yeah. You know, how do I? What do I? You know, the team thing is, you know, I don't know. It's kind of falling to the wayside with ambition and the culture of narcissism and social media and whatnot. I think that's why I connect so much with improv because it's a team. Yeah, I think I could get that. Yeah, I really enjoy that.

I mean, I've learned to work with people. I mean, you have to. Sword of Trust was mostly improvised? No. All improvised. Yeah, so? And you were working with John Bass on most of your stuff? No, yeah.

I mean, I've done like I've done three. I did three seasons of Swanberg's Easy. I mean, I've done like I've done three. I did three seasons of Swanberg's Easy. I mean, oh, yeah, I can do that thing. You know, if it's in my wheelhouse and it's real, I can improvise. It's where it's it. But even on sort of trust, you know, the issue was like I don't come from improvising. So I'm not going to you can't give me a hat and I become a guy. Do you know what I mean?

It's sort of like a now I'm going to. Oh, who's this guy? I'd love to meet him. What's that guy's name? His name is Mr. Whoopie-Beepie. Oh, my God. What a cool dude.

I'm sure I could do it. You could, of course, do it. But it's not my thing. So now I'm working with Michaela and John and Toby Huss and Bax Bell. They're brilliant.

Jillian also. Brilliant. And I'm like, after the first or second day, I say to Lynn, I'm like, if they don't reel it in, man, I'm just going to be the fucking idiot straight man for the whole fucking movie. I'm not even going to get a line in.

So what happened? She said, all right, I understand what you're saying. And yes, well, you know, they'll find their groove. They got to be real people. You can't just have improv. It can't be improv challenge. Yes. Like, unless you create the device like that, like the earliest show, the earlier, what is it?

Yeah, the earliest show. I mean, you created a device where you guys could go. Yes. And it's not, you know, you could go wherever you want because the characters were sort of emotionally grounded in these ideas of, you know, your relationship. But, you know, you weren't going to ruin the integrity of that character. No. The big thing that UCB teaches is the game of the scene. So each character had their game and each kind of setting had their game.

If we just play that, we can play within our characters as much as we want. Oh, okay. Yeah. So that's sort of it. With something like Sword of Trust, you have a treatment sort of script, half script, half treatment. And you need to hit certain beats, but you've got to stay within the framework of the story. You have to service the story. So it's really on people like Lynn or Joe to the genius in that type of filmmaking is

editing. Cause that's really, really working. Absolutely. By the way. But you felt so connected to Ireland. You've gone back several times. We went back. I helped out, uh, my friend Jake, I was filming something in England, a movie in England,

and my friends were doing some comedy stuff in Ireland. So I went back one other time. Who? Uh, Jake and Amir. They're these guys that do costumechuma stuff. Love them. You did a lot of that stuff, right? That was part of the- That's how I kind of started with those guys. The YouTube momentum.

Yeah, that was exactly it. That's like kind of in my head, I remember thinking, okay, people aren't really seeing me in LA or anywhere else outside of UCB. I got to start doing stuff. But it's interesting when you watch some of those because you don't have the sort of wisdom and framework of character that you did get later. Yeah. In terms of improvising. It's almost like make them laugh. Make them laugh. That's it.

That's what that is. It's like cotton candy almost. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like, yeah. But also for me, I was a page at Letterman and then I found a way to become a freelance writer for Letterman. Okay.

Well, wait. So we both have Irish connections just poetically. Yeah. And what are they? The Gilmesh's? The Gilmesh's Irish connections, just poetically. Yeah. And what are they, the Gilmesh's, or the G- The Gmelches, yeah. I love that we're talking about them. I truly thought they were great. The Gmelches are great.

Yeah. Anthony Rabonis was the- Rabonis? Was my psych teacher that I loved and followed. Anthony Rabonis? Tony Rabonis, yeah. Tony Rabonis. Oh wait, yeah, I think that's, yeah.

Oh no, De Bono, Ken De Bono. Ken De Bono and the Gmelches. This is how great Ken De Bono was. He was a great psych teacher, right? And he was, by the way, one of the people that allowed me to write. So there would be like an abnormal psychology paper. And I would do minimal amount of research. But because I remember in high school, I kind of cheated every now and then.

Didn't really try. In college. Cheated how? The most extensive version of it was I was in high school, I kind of cheated every now and then, didn't really try. In college, because- Cheated how? The most extensive version of it was I was in Spanish class, and one of my friends who speaks Spanish as a first language passed by the front door, and I said to Peruzzi, the teacher, I said, hey, can I go to the bathroom real quick? I took my test, I put it in my back pocket, went to him, I go, hey, hey, hey,

and asked him- You only got a few seconds. But he speaks Spanish, so this was the easiest thing. I go, hey, what are all these words and like that's the most extensive one did you get caught? because it was public school I never got caught

but then in college it cost a lot of money and I worked my fucking ass off no cheating none never I cheated once in high school you know cause like

I was just like fucking off and well I had to write a paper and I borrowed some other kids paper and I kind of just you know copied it and I got us both a paper and I borrowed some other kid's paper and I kind of just, you know, copied it and I got us both expelled and he was like a good kid. Expelled from the school? No, just for a few days. Suspended for a few days.

Okay. It was stupid. Yeah. Primarily, you know, I should have, you know, mixed it up a little bit. I found that I cheated in the stuff that made me, like I couldn't, maybe I had some sort of ADD, but I couldn't concentrate on history stuff.

But math for some reason clicked with me immediately. I loved math. See, that's where we split ways. You hated math. I can't, no, I couldn't concentrate on history stuff. But math, for some reason, clicked with me immediately. I loved math. Oh, see, that's where we split ways. You hated math. I can't. No, I can't do it. I can't. I didn't give up.

Algebra, I lost. Geometry was okay because of pictures. Algebra, no good. Geometry, I did okay in. George DiCaro. I liked that teacher, so I loved that subject. Oh, is that how that worked? Yeah.

Yeah, my guy, I think his name was Mr. Hubble. Great name. Yeah, I always used to make him laugh, and then he had a heart attack. How do you kill everybody that you're around? He was in the hospital, and I showed up. My dad was a doctor. I borrowed his doctor's bag, and I put on a doctor's jacket thing, and I went to the hospital with the doctor's bag,

and I brought Mr. Hubble liquor. I brought him liquor. That's amazing. In bed after his heart attack. And I knew he liked to drink, but when he saw the liquor, that face he got, like, oh. That's so funny. It was like the best thing. Was that your idea?

Yeah. You're a smart kid. That's so fucking funny. And it was so fun just to see him so thrilled like he needed it. Also, a cute little kid with a doctor's bag is the funniest thing. Yeah. I had a real bag, and that was very important. That was a real bag.

All right, so I see how it opened your mind to how people work and how communities work, and I could see your interest. But what makes you turn your back on the Gamilches and De Bono, ultimately? Oh, in terms of a study? Your life. These people set you up. Because all I wanted to do in my life was do comedy. I remember watching SNL.

Yeah. And you know what the thing that used to make me emotional was at the end, the people waving goodbye. They just finished the show. They just had like the same thing. They're hanging out and they're talking. And it's just like, I was so envious of that moment. Who was the cast?

Oh, well, when I was a kid, it was probably Farley and Sandler and stuff like that. But then Farrell came in and that was incredible. So I watched it for, but then I was obsessed with Kids in the Hall. And then when I grew up older, then Larry Sanders was the thing that blew my mind. And then I was in- You had to watch that after the fact though, right?

After the- Or were you in it? No, it was after. It was in real time? No, no, no, it was after. And then I was in, you know how Shanley had a basketball league here? Yeah, yeah. I was in that. So I got to hang no. It was after. And then I was in, you know how Shanley had a basketball league here? Yeah, yeah.

I was in that, so I got to hang out with him every week for six years, and it was like insane. How'd you weasel your way into that situation? Sarah invited me. Silverman? Yeah. I didn't even have to. She's like, hey, you should come here.

And that was just like, you know, the best. I'm sorry. See how I used the word weasel like it was some sort of horrible thing you did? Like I tried to fuck it up. Yeah. No, like you just kind of like opportunistically got yourself in there. Hey guys, what are you doing? Yeah, yeah, I just happened to appear. Hey, I'm the new funny kid.

Look, I got my own ball. Oh, I was terrified of being funny in front of people. Okay, so but when do you move here? When do you make the decision? What is the decision? I did, so I decided through that improv group, it ended up being, people started laughing and stuff. In college. Yes.

It was called Idle Minds. It was short form, which is very different than what we do now, which is like long stories. The Herald? Yeah, we don't even do that. So me and short form, which is very different than what we do now, which is like long stories. The Herald? Yeah, we don't even do that. So me and Thomas Middleditch, we tour now and we do this. Yeah, you guys are like a big comedy team. We're trying, yeah. And we just did a bunch of specials for a place that's coming out.

We're not allowed to talk about which place it is, but it's coming out next year. We did three, so we're going to release it at the same time. An outlet, a streaming outlet, if you will. You did several specials? Yeah, we did four specials in two days. Four different specials. What does that mean? So wait, what is the structure of that so you middle ditch i've never interviewed him either uh but his come to you would you ever come to one of our shows very important to me in my life kirsten his manager kirsten ames did she get you an aspen no no no she like before she was anybody she uh actually directed and uh dramaturged my first one-man show jerusalem syndrome i remember

seeing posters for that yeah in like 2001 yeah man yeah 2000 and we did it at her little theater to workshop it at uh not a 45 okay uh upstairs on i guess it was 45th street yeah and uh and then she took it to we took it to the West Beth and she started sort of working with Arnold. And it was before she became a manager, long before. She was very pivotal in getting me, putting together the theater stuff. She's really good at spotting funny people who work hard.

Well, yeah, she really hit the jackpot with him. Yeah. So, okay, let's talk about that for a minute. So what is the structure? I'm excited to. I never really get to talk about improv or comedy, so I'm happy to be on for a minute so what is the structure i never really get to talk about improv or comedy so i'm happy but what's the structure of that show because like you guys sell out big calls and i know you have a you both have a big following him from the commercials and uh you from his phone a lot of people are like oh i gotta see the verizon guy uh no from silicon valley silicon valley you from Parks and Rec and other little things

that you've done very tiny things yeah no but I mean that thing seems to be the one that really kind of got you the the nerd comedy nerd community on board yeah that and like uh bang bang and like podcast sure bang bang yeah yeah yeah that was fun but um what's the structure of these shows you guys just he's a great improviser middle did he's wonderful So we do a two-person show for an hour and 15 minutes. Every word is made up from the spot. What we do at the beginning, I mean, I'd love for you to come. I would come. When do you?

I would be so interested to see, because I know you'll be truthful afterwards, interested to see what you think about it as someone who, you are someone who studies comedy, so I'd be very interested to see, because I don't think you've seen what we do before. Look, I mean, I'll go to things, and I like things. I saw Nick Kroll's and Mulaney's funny thing with the guys, the made-up guys. I don't think that was innately. That was scripted, though.

Yeah, it was scripted, and I didn't quite understand it, but I think they're both funny. They're very funny. Nick is very funny. We literally come out of the beginning. We just talk to the audience for a little bit to get people warmed up, and then what we do is we ask a suggestion. The suggestion we've been asking that we ask in the specials are what's something you look forward to yeah or what's something you're dreading and before we

say it we say we don't want funny answers we don't want we don't want you to be like farts or blah blah we want to have a real conversation with you and so we talk to someone we go back and forth someone in the audience for like five ten minutes yeah and then we get all these characters or any information they want to give in our heads and And then nobody talks the rest of the time. Then we do a full show that's one full story for an hour. Uh-huh. And we make up all the characters and we play ten characters sometimes, sometimes two.

Sometimes it's two, sometimes it's 15, 20 characters. Oh, wow. And you never know whatever the show is. So last night we did two shows at Largo last night and they were completely different. So the goal was to try to get into a special. So we've been very lucky. We sold out some cool, like Carnegie Hall we did, which.

Would you do that during the festival? Carnegie Hall? Yeah, during the New York Comedy Festival? No, we did it on, we did it a separate time. But for me, and also think about my mom as a music teacher. Right. Come to Carnegie Hall to see her little son, you know what I mean?

It's a good show? It was a really fun show, and just my mom was fucking working the crowd beforehand, being like, that's my son. It was just a really special one for me, because a lot of my shows are touring, and they don't get to see them anymore. But they're very supportive.

Carnegie Hall is special. It was, though, for me, it was insane, because I know that venue since I've been a kid. Yeah. You know, like, there are jokes about that, you know, how do you get to Carnegie Hall? It's like a joke you hear when you're five. Practice, practice, practice. Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that one was a biggie. But, yeah, so then we that one was a biggie. But yeah, so then we do an hour 15 like that. But when we were trying to sell it as a special, it was very, very hard to sell because the- That you're going to make up- That's it. They don't know what it is.

They're like, well, what is it? And we're like, well, it can be anything. Right. One was, when we were in Atlanta, it was this show. And he goes, yeah, but, you know, like, and is it going to translate? So that's the big thing. There have been some long form specials that,

I actually did one for Showtime, and it was like, we're kind of learning, and I think our goal is to try to get it. Who'd you do that one with? I did it for Showtime, it was, I was on a show called House of Lies with Don Cheadle and Kristen Bell and Josh Lawson. And David Nevins, who was very supportive of me.

From CBS? Or he's at Showtime now, yeah. He was the head of Showtime now, he's the head of like everything, he's at CBS now. I wanted to do something called Snow Pants, which is me and a group of improvisers get one person who's never done improv before. So like, I do the show for charity where it's like,

Blake Griffin's done it a bunch of times, Henry Winkler, JJ Abrams, all these people who don't really do improv come and we improvise with them. And we do it for charity and all the money's raised. But I wanted to do that as a weekly show for Showtime. And he said, I can't let you do that, but if you use everybody in your cast, if you use people from the House of Lies cast,

I can let you do an improv show because we can pay for it as a part of promotion for this. So that was the first one I did. Who was in it? Cheadle, Kristen Bell, me, Lauren Lapkus, Eugene Cordero, and Ryan Gall. And that was that one, Josh Lawson. Cheadle, good improviser?

Great. Especially for, great. And by the way uh he's so talented that's one of those things that like when you work like when i worked in parks and rec and watched polar you're like holy shit and then you watch don cheadle and he's just a machine i'm going to show now with john malkovich and i just watch him and you're just every now and then you'll just be like holy shit i'm acting with john malkovich yeah and you have to almost take a second to get back into the whatever sure yeah yeah i've had a couple moments like that where you're like oh my god you've looked up to this guy your whole life who was it for you

well i did a little scene in the joker with deniro oh yes of course you were writing it yeah you must have lost your fucking mind it's weird after doing this show as long as i have and talking to so many different people well no it's like's like they become human pretty quick. And you start to see pretty quickly. You respect them still, but it's sort of like, oh, they're doing the job. The job. I did my third movie or something,

I had a scene with Robert De Niro. And I'm very young, I'm very green, I'm probably terrible. And I remember on set, I don't know if it was different for you. Yeah. It was like you know he's kind of he kind of keeps to himself between takes quiet and so um he was by himself over there and i was like you know what i want to talk to him but i i don't want to bother him yeah and so um i went up i went up to him um and uh i was like hey this is a fun you know this is fun he's like yeah yeah yeah it's like it feels like a real new york movie and he

goes yeah yeah yeah and then there's like a pause New York movie. And he goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there was a pause. Right. For a real-time pause of 10 seconds. And I go, so that's it? We have nothing else to fucking say to each other? And he cracked up. And he goes, I don't know. And then we talked for 10 minutes. Greatest 10 minutes of my life.

And I ended it poorly. Because we were talking. And we're talking about all these great things. And he's saying, oh, yeah, the first time I was in LA. I was like, oh, you're talking about Raging Bull. I'm talking about I went to LA for like writing for Robot Chicken. And he's like, yeah, I was over there for a movie.

And then at the end I was like, yeah. And he was asking me where I was living. And I was like, yeah. I was like, where are you? And I was like, oh, don't ask Robert De Niro where he lives. And that's where I made a mistake. Got too familiar. Yeah.

And then I knew DeBell. I knew DeBell. And I was like, hey man, I knew I had my fun time with him. I was like, hey man, all right, I'll see you out there. And it was great. That's great. So how do you get from making the decision to pursue a life in comedy to where you're starting to find success? You said you were a page at NBC?

I did. It was the first jobs? The first job for me was I was an intern at UCB, so I could pay for classes. In New York, the original UCB on like 22nd or something? This one was right when they moved to Chelsea on 26th. So right when they missed. That month is when I became an intern at UCB so I could pay for classes. In New York, the original UCB on like 22nd. This one was right when they moved to Chelsea on 26th. So right when they missed, that month is when I became an intern. Not the weird old adult theater.

Not the, well no, that one is the one where they chopped down a wall and found old used condoms from like some weird burlesque or whatever. Which one, the new one? The one in the basement? 26th on Chelsea, yeah. The one under the supermarket?

Yeah, that one's gone by the way. Yeah. They've already moved from that one. Yeah, well I remember the original one. I think I saw you perform. You did shows there, didn't gone, by the way. Yeah. They've already moved from that one. Yeah, well, I remember the original one, which was that. I think I saw you perform. You did shows there, didn't you? Once or twice. Yeah.

No, you probably, if you saw me anywhere, it was at Luna. Oh, maybe. Luna Lounge. I did a show at UCB. We had a Sunday show late, and you did a show before us, and your show was running really long, like really long. I did? Yeah.

Yeah. And you came backstage, but you were having a good time. Yeah. And you came backstage, and you saw six of us. You're never going to remember this. I remember it because- This was way at the UGC being here. Yes, in LA.

Yeah. And you came back, and you're like, oh, hey, guys. Hey, guys, I'm sorry we're going late. I mean, you were like 30, 40 minutes late. We should have been on stage already. Right. Like, sorry we're going late.

And then you smiled and laughed, and it made me laugh so hard because you're like, oh, guys, you're the next people? Oh, sorry, we're going a little bit late. And then you laughed at like, fuck these guys, and you went back on stage. I went back. I think I got back on stage and said, yeah, there's some people back there in the lobster costume that are getting a little. There's two llamas and a goat waiting to come on stage to do improv.

It really made me laugh. Yeah, I was sort of a dick. Yeah, I was an old cranky stand-up that was like, because when I really think about when I got here and trying to reestablish myself or just get some, get any traction when I first came back here in 2002 or 2003. Yeah. You know, this whole nerd comedy community was,

it was not my world, man. It didn't feel like Luna or Invite Them Up? No, Invite Them Up was after Luna, long after Luna. That was like the second wave. it was not my world man it didn't feel like luna invite them up no it involved well invite them up was after luna long after luna that was like the second wave so i was an actual club comic doing alt comedy at the beginning when it was called that but i was still really a club comic i didn't you know the culture that grew up around sketch and and those other type of shows with merman and those these communities it built was after so i'm still coming into it like this older club comic. And I'm like, oh, these fucking kids with the costumes and this and that.

Right. You know, like it was really that kind of attitude. But I had to figure out how to do shows at UCB, at Nurb Mill. It was sort of like, I guess I have to do that. Right. Like the comedy store at that time was a dark shithole. And I didn't, the improv was a nightmare. And I couldn't get.

Did you alter your comedy to try to get up at those places? No, no, no. It was always. I'd always fit. Right. But I always felt like these kids are too precious for me. I'm like this bitter, weird, recovering nut. Angry.

I knew that it wasn't fun time. Right. It wasn't. There was not even the name Comedy Bang Bang or Comedy Death Ray. I'm like, what kind of names are these? Can't we just do the thing? So you're coming in hot. Yeah, of course I am.

Always. So, but, and I always felt like they were judging me in a way, like, I always felt like a caricature doing those rooms. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. But then I feel like that's where you made a name for yourself here in L.A. Sure. A lot of people embrace me that, you know, somehow or another I or another, I lucked out by being a reasonably interesting old man. You know what I mean?

Like somehow I'm not the old man that talks about his wife and kids or this or that. Did you say the reasonable old man that was on yesterday? Oh, he was very talented. Yeah. You know, like I do have young people that like my struggle in the sense that they can relate to it, which means that I have a sophomoric emotional existential struggle that has lasted into my 50s and is relatable to, you know, sensitive, bright kids who are in their 20s. Do you feel like if you weren't, if you didn't have that struggle, do you feel like you wouldn't be as good of a comedian or no? I think so. I think that like I have to sort of root myself in it somewhere,

whatever version it's taking. And I do feel like there's a redundancy to it, and I do feel like if I did kind of take the next step of being emotionally mature and being okay with myself in these fundamental ways, I would see no reason to do anything. Yeah. Not in a bad way, but just sort of like, I did it. I'm going to sit down.

But I feel like you're always working. I am. Yeah. Constantly. Do you have to? Do you feel like, because I am also one of like, I did it, I'm going to sit down. But I feel like you're always working. I am. Yeah. Constantly. Do you have to? Do you feel like, because I am also one of the, maybe it's that I'm afraid that it's all just going to go away, but I feel like I have to keep going. Well, I mean, there's the struggle, like there's two things.

If you don't have to do it for the money necessarily, then you have to question why. Is it for relevance? Is it because you honestly need to express and create? Is it because you're afraid to, you know, not do anything?

You know, I don't know. Those are personal answers. But I think if you work or if you're a worker, you're just going to, what else are you going to do? That's it.

Yeah. That's a job. Sorry, I keep going away from what you were saying. That's all right. So you're working at UCB as? Yeah,

I was an intern. So it kind of started with an intern at UCB so I can get free classes for improv and then I. You just moved to New York, are you still coming in from White Plains or Great Neck? So I'm coming in from Edgemont.

At the beginning I'm coming in from Edgemont. Where your folks are? Yep, where I was living with my parents. And they were supportive and so at the end of college when I was doing this improv thing, I did a, I. Graduated with honors? I graduated summa, one of the cum laude's. But I did because I was really close to it,

but I needed like an A. Yeah. So I took an acting class because all the football guys took acting classes to bump their thing so they wouldn't fail out. Yeah. And a part of the acting class is you had to audition for the play.

Yeah. So I was forced to audition for the play and I got it. And I would never have auditioned because I was a bit afraid to, you know, whatever. This was last year of college? Last year of college. Yeah.

And I did it. Or play? It was a Caucas afraid to, you know, whatever. This was last year of college? Last year of college. Yeah. And I did it. What play? It was a Caucasian chalk circle, a very heavy Brecht thing. Oh, wow. And so I played Azdak, and the only real play I've done, really. And then the guy, the director who did it, he said, hey, you're good at this. You should try doing this. Yeah.

And so I talked to my parents. I said, hey, I want to try doing comedy. I'll go really hard, hard like for the first two years if it if i can't do it i'll get a job and they were to their credit they were incredibly supportive they said okay this is grad school this is like considering like this is right we're gonna help you and i only needed them to support me for one year and then i made enough money to support myself really so you so you're working at ucp to get free Yep. I was a page at Letterman. And so you only make, and then as a page. How'd you get that gig?

Did you know somebody? No, I didn't know anybody in anything. So when I went to UCB, I saw one show and I saw like Amy was up there and all these people were up there. And I was like, God, I want to be in a place that has these people. And so I asked them, is there a way I can become an intern so I can get free classes? And he said, yeah, you can work Sundays. So was the original crew still?

Yeah, it was everybody. Besser was just about to move to LA. It was 2003. So it was Matt, Ian, Matt, and Ian. Yeah, it was Besser. And then the people who were performing were like Jack McBrayer, Rob Hubel, Paul Scheer. And then the monologist would be like Alec Baldwin. And it would be insane.

I remember my favorite part of being an intern there was when I was backstage and saw that fucking like you know Alec Baldwin was backstage or someone huge Robin Williams was backstage and I knew he was about to come out and nobody in the audience knew my heart would get so excited to see the audience go fucking bananas because you know you invite them all up and then the last person is like an immunologist and Amy would

usually say something like you guys came on a good night and then you could hear rumblings like what the fuck's gonna happen? And it'd be like, ladies and gentlemen, Robin Williams. And he'd come out and the crowd would go like, like when Oprah gives away cars. Sure, yeah, crazy.

I loved that. I loved watching that. So hard to watch those guys try to live up to the original surprise of them coming on. Oh, there was once a show where I was supposed to improvise and then Robin Williams at the last second came by and he's like, hey, can I perform?

And they said, yeah. And so someone said, Ben, would you do monologues? And I said, I go, of course. So the way that it goes is you introduce all the performers first then you introduce the monologist.

So the last performer they pick up was, so, and ladies and gentlemen, Robin Williams. And it's like, I mean, you have to wait for five minutes. People are like throwing up

and throwing their hats. Women are having babies. It's crazy. And then they go, and you're a monologist for this evening and nobody knows who the fuck I am. And they go, and you're a monologist for this evening and nobody knows who the fuck I am.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they go, from the UCB Theater, I don't think I have any credits. Yeah. It was like Ben Schwartz and I came and I knew the only way

to not make it awkward was to like play it up like stupid. So I like said, get the fuck up and pretend like I was bigger than Robin. Right, right, right.

And I saw Robin enjoy the bit which made me so happy. He didn't come out and play with you? There's a different show I did where he played with us and then afterwards, he came up afterwards and enjoy the bit, which made me so happy. He didn't come out and play with you? There's a different show I did where he played with us. And then afterwards, he came up afterwards. And all the performers, he looked us in the eyes and said, thank you so much.

This meant so much to me. And it was like the greatest moment of my life. Yeah, he's a sweet guy. He's amazing. You must have saw him in San Francisco or nowhere? It was a little past my time. But we'd run into each other over the years. And I just remember, he used to hang out at this theater up at up in the marin county it's a

what part of san francisco there was a gig that this guy uh used to book mark pitta the throck morton and and robin used he lived around there so he'd hang out there sure and it was just a standard comedy show and i remember i was headlining once and robin was there and he was just up in this booth where you couldn't really see him but every time a joke didn't quite work that I would do I'd hear him go oh that Robin laugh the best yeah but uh oh sorry so so a year in you start making money oh yeah because commercials I tried to commercial but by the way to get a commercial agent you had to pay to take classes to learn how to get a commercial agent in New York. So I had to pay to get classes,

and then agents would come at the last class to see you do whatever piece. So I was doing that. But the way I became a page at Letterman is I was literally walking by. I didn't have a job, and I wanted to get a job in entertainment, so I wore a suit and tie. I was with my friend Nick Gibbons, and we went to MTV because in my head MTV hires young people. Yeah. I walked into MTV. You didn't even get a job in entertainment. So I wore a suit and tie. I was with my friend, Nick Gibbons. And we went to MTV because in my head, MTV hires young people. Yeah.

I walked into MTV. You didn't even have a plan though. You're just going to go in. I had 20 resumes in my backpack. Yeah. On my dad's fancy paper. You know how like dads have fancy paper? Sure. Yeah. So it was like the brownish fancy. The heavyweight. Yeah.

And I had a back- A little texture to it. That's literally it. And I had a backpack with those things in it. 20 things. Yeah. And so I went there and I conned the security guard by saying I was there for a Viacom meeting. Right. And I said, I'm so late. I'm supposed to be an intern at Viacom.

He unlocked the elevator for me to get to just that floor. Yeah. I get to that floor. Then I spoke Spanish to one of the people that was cleaning. I said, hey, can I get to the 15th floor? I go, where's MTV? Yeah. And he said, floor whatever.

Yeah. And I go, I'm supposed to be there. And I said it in Spanish and he said floor whatever and I go I'm supposed to be there and he unlocked I said it in Spanish and he was lovely and he unlocked the door and we walked down five flights and I get out

and the fucking it's a dollar bill with George Washington with his tongue out and I'm like oh I'm in MTV and I was nervous and I was so excited and there's a nice woman

at the desk and I go hey I'm here to talk about a possible internship again this is all made up like I'm here to talk about a possible internship here someone told me is all made up. I'm here to talk about a possible internship here. Someone told me to come to this floor. And I use the guy's name upstairs.

Ruiz told me to come down here. And she goes, I think you're on the wrong floor. And I go, well, this is MTV, right? She goes, yeah, but this is the president's office. And I go, well, surely he can get me a job. And she goes, okay, go down to the fifth floor. And there's someone who deals with internships. I go down to the fifth floor. And there's, there's someone who deals with internships. I go down on the fifth floor and I say, and I had a real person's name this time.

So it was like Marie upstairs told me to come down and give you my thing. My name is Ben Schwartz. I'm an intern at a UCB. I'm like, I know how to deal with that. And so I saw them take my resume. They go, okay, we'll give you a call. So I'm taking my resume, open up a file cabinet that was so filled with like people's resumes and just throw it on top and they never called me right so i'm dejected walking back down broadway yeah i passed by letterman and they come up to me because as i learned when i worked there when they you know like when they need people to fill seats if you look like you're wearing like a nice suit or something you might be like hey you know it'd be good to get you in the crowd right whatever they go hey do you want to

see letterman i was like of course i've watched letterman every night of my life of course and while i'm online people are cheering up the crowd and see Letterman? I was like, of course. I've watched Letterman every night of my life, of course. And while I'm online, people are cheering up the crowd and stuff like that. And I was like, oh my God, I would love to do what you do. This would be my dream job. And they said, and they're like, yeah, well, I go, who can I talk to? They go, our boss here. So the boss comes over, he goes, I can't help you unless you had a resume. And I took out all 20 resumes and he laughed and he said, okay. And he set up a meeting and that's how I got that job. And that led to me freelance writing for Letterman's Monologue so that that started a whole well how'd you get that you just said I wanted to can how what would I have to do I waited

till I was I don't like bothering people so I waited till like I was there for three months and I was about to you're only allowed to be a page for a certain amount of time yeah six months or maybe you have much experience with Dave no uh he. One of the jobs you have as a page for Letterman is- Yeah, never talk to Letterman. That's like rule number one, is that he runs, something that I do in my improv show is that I think I probably took from him watching him every day for a year and a half. A year and a half, I think I worked there. But there's a place where the bathrooms are, where the crowd can go to the bathrooms. He walks by there to get backstage. So you have to stop the crowd when it's about the time that dave's gonna go through right and oftentimes he would fuck with the pages uh which was a dream for me yeah so every night he would walk by and like

for no reason he would act like a monkey and go like to me that was great i'm done but so um and so that was like the only really when i was a a page, but I told myself, I had like three goals when I started. One was I want to be a guest on Letterman before it stops. One was to be a voice on The Simpsons because The Simpsons means a lot to me. I think it's like how I learned how to write or do comedy. And third was one day to host SNL before I pass away. Those are the three ones. So you got one more.

I got one more. Yeah. But I got the Writing job Because There's a guy named Greg Who's a Page with me That did it And I asked

You know like Hey can you tell Is it possible to pass along And they said No at the beginning I said no problem And then it was my last day Or like

I had like Three months left Yeah Of the job I said hey I'm about to leave Is it possible And the guy Steve Young I think

Was the monologue writer Yeah He said you know what You can hand in a joke or two. And he gave me notes on them. Right. My jokes were too big. Right.

I would write big jokes. Yeah. And he told me what I did wrong. And then I started getting jokes on. And then I got a bunch of jokes on. And there's stuff, because we're there to tell people not to get up and go to the bathroom. Yeah. We show them where the bathroom is.

Right. So I'm in the back of it. And at the end of his monologue, Letterman points to the right, and goes, and ladies and gentlemen, Paul Schaefer and Schaefer, whatever. So I know if he goes like this, I didn't get any jokes on.

Yeah. So there are some episodes where I got yelled at because you could audibly hear me say, fuck, when I didn't get any jokes on. So the guy that like the audience- So was that the last year or two he was on? No, that was 2003 or four.

And then I was a guest of his in the last like two months before he left for parks and rec no for um uh house of lies oh wow and i kept my first joke i got on i knew the cue card guy so i kept my cue card yeah and then i keep i like i like keeping mementos yeah i really do i steal a thing so do you bring the cue card no but i i stole the one that said uh ladies and gentlemen from whatever oh that's great yeah that's nice to have that stuff it's i have a bunch of that when you get in your 50s it'll be meaningless but i'm learning that it just takes up space yeah you're like do i need that and also where am i gonna put it or like a poster that has my face on it i can't put it anywhere but it's also like what happens to

this stuff yeah i mean you know it is important to you and i you know i have a lot of that stuff too but it gets to a point it's like is this gonna be somewhere. I mean, it is important to you, and I have a lot of that stuff too, but it gets to a point where it's like, is this going to be somewhere? No. It's so weird. Okay, so you write for Letterman a bit, but you've done pretty well for yourself, and I think a lot of it, outside of your talent, somewhere along the line you've got the confidence and the ambition to kind of really push it out there and kind of do it.

Yeah. Like that whole MTV story, that's a resourceful thing. I think sometimes that kind of behavior is the difference between somebody who does give themselves a chance as opposed to someone who never quite gets there. Yep, I think I saw at the beginning, I had two years to try to do this, I'm gonna work,

all I'm gonna do is comedy. And that's all I did. And you tried stand-up too? Tried stand-up, did 10 times. One time they had let me not bring people. Yeah. And I fucking bombed. I never felt, I was so embarrassed to bomb.

I was, I just came from work. That's exactly the feeling, dude. I hated it. It's, because it happened to me the other night and I've been doing it, you know, for almost 35 years. I hadn't done, I was in, you know, we were on vacation.

I was in Ireland in Thanksgiving. Great pictures. I heard your pictures were incredible. Yeah, I'll show them to pictures. And I'll show you the guitarist too. But, uh, no, but like I hadn't been on in over a month and I've never gone that long. And so the other night I went on, I didn't bomb, but like I, I, you know, you, for me, I stay, you stay in connection with an audience. Like I do comedy two, three times a week just to keep that relationship open. Same with improv. Right. Right. So when you let that close, it's sort of like, with an audience like i do comedy two three times a week just to keep that relationship open same with improv right right so when you let that close it's sort of like you got to find your way back in and it was i could feel it i was like oh god and you get off and i'm like fuck that was it's

embarrassing is what it is it is and you got you got to learn how to just shut up and suck it up and you know walk away it hurt that stand-up experience really fucked with me because i was like oh man i it was i remember i was tired and then what you should never do is i was like i almost apologized to the audience i was like oh god i'm sorry i like i just because that was so green i didn't know that's the difference between you i'll show that part of myself like this isn't yeah this isn't going well and i you know i just yeah you have to i think you to do what you do uh and to do the improv stuff you have to have confidence on stage or what you do uh and to do the improv stuff you have to have

confidence on stage or you're just gonna melt yeah do you know what i mean but the thing is is like that confidence will also not narcissism i don't think we go up there being like we're the best we're the best no no but i'm saying that confidence is also a big enough umbrella to to um to support some amount of failure is that like you know there's a part of you after a certain amount of time that if it's not going as well or it didn't work out the way you want it to, you know, your confidence enables you to at least take it as just, hey, that happens sometimes. It's part of the fucking job. Yeah. But it still hurts, right? Of course. Everything hurts. Yeah, it does. I think that the one thing, no matter how well adjusted you may be or I am not or I wasn't at a certain time, the common

thing that we have is a sensitivity. Absolutely. That it's almost, it could be a paralyzing sensitivity, immobilizing sensitivity. I hate when somebody thinks, if I hurt somebody's feelings, it bothers me. Yeah, it bothers me unless it's out of vengeance, and then it takes about three minutes for it to bother me. Not until the next thing. Yeah. No, then I apologize, and I it takes about three minutes for it to bother me. Not until the next thing. Yeah, yeah.

No, then I apologize, and I was a dick, and whatever. Right. Yeah, there's this sort of like, I used to do a bit about that, like how I'm evolving because the time between, you know, hurting somebody and apologizing is getting smaller. It's tightening up.

Yeah. Yeah. Outburst apologies. So quick. Yeah. Seconds. It's like, fuck you, I'm sorry. Same sentence. Yeah,. It's like, fuck you, I'm sorry. Same sentence.

Yeah, yeah. But now, I don't mind that we didn't talk about- We can talk about anything you want. I didn't watch a lot of Parks and Rec, but your character was very inspired, and I've heard you tell the story about how it was supposed to be a one-off, and then it became a thing. Yeah. But you built that guy from yourself, the singing thing you did?

It would say sing-songy, so it would say the thing you did? It would say like sing-songy. So it would say the words and then it would just say sing-songy and then I can kind of do whatever I wanted. But you went way over the top of it. That character, if you ever watch, if anybody watches that show, if you watch my first appearance

and then slowly, you'll see I slowly get more confident and slowly get crazier and slowly become like a Muppet. Yeah. I like become a crazier version of my, of John Ralphio up until the end. It's got a nice build to it.

Every bit where you can isolate where your tag is in a scene, you know that you can go way. But it was like Harris Whittles was writing those and fucking Katie Dippel. The writing staff of Parks is one of the most talented writing staffs of all time. Megan Amram was on there. It's bananas.

I don't know her, but I'm sort of fascinated with her. I've asked her to be on the show, but she doesn't want to do it. Why? I don't know, man. I don't know if she does these shows or what. She's brilliant. I don't know, but i'm sort of fascinated with her i've asked her to be on the show but she don't want to do it why i don't know i don't know if she does these shows or what does she's brilliant i don't know but she's one of the smartest people i like it i've always liked her twitter feed and i like what she does in the world but uh i remember trying to get her on but i just don't think she i see here's what i decide she has no interest in me she doesn't like you take it personal she doesn't like me as a man as a person i i i she's she's uh she she can't stand me on some level right so she's just being nice yeah as opposed to like she doesn't do that have you ever is there someone you chased for a very long time to get this podcast and then you finally got them is who's the person

you chased the longest lauren michaels did you get him yeah i did oh my goodness i can't wait like two he had me come back. I talked to him. He gave me a time. It was over at his office and we spent like an hour or so and then he had to go to a game. But he said, well, I'm around tomorrow if you want to come back.

And I'm like, all right, I'll come back. Oh, I can't wait. That's why I listen on the way home. Well, I had this big sort of, I was obsessed with the reason I didn't get SNL. Yeah, you talk about it on the podcast. Constantly. Well, he resolved it.

He walked me through it. No spoilers. I'm going to listen to it on the way home. Now, there's a couple of questions. What is it that you and Bill Hader do for Star Wars movies? Just one time. For episode seven, there's a character named BB-8. It's a rolly droid guy.

Oh, okay. And at the very beginning, JJ came up to me, and we thought of lines for him. Yeah. And we were trying to turn the lines into beeps and boops, and that didn't really work. Then we used a synthesizer. Oh, you'd love the music aspect of it. Yeah. But we used a synthesizer, and then we used like this incredible machine.

And that kind of was working, but not really. And then I went off to do a movie and Bill Hader came in and started doing synthesizer stuff and doing stuff like that. And then in the end, I think JJ just found like an app that he used. You guys replaced. Yes. But my lines were used to help edit. So the editors would be like, oh, it was really helpful to see like what this droid was kind of saying because we can edit back and forth

a little bit easier knowing the exact emotions. So that was exciting. And then, but you know, Star Wars, man, it's fucking insane that my name is in the credits of Star Wars is fucking crazy.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, those are exciting things. You know, like even my little part in the Joker, I'm in the biggest grossing R rated. It's a billion dollar movie. It's crazy. But also like I, you know, I was never a Simpsons guy, but I'm in the biggest grossing R rated. It's a billion dollar movie. It's crazy.

But also like I, you know, I was never a Simpsons guy, but I got on the Simpsons as myself. And that must've been exciting for you to be on a Simpsons. Yes. Cause you seem like a Simpsons guy. It,

it, it changed my, it like everything to me. That was when I was a kid. And also if you rewatch. See, I think I missed everything. Like I was so consumed with like poetry and rock music and,

you know, William Burroughs and beatniks and freaks that like, I don't, and I don't and freaks that I don't, and I don't think I had when I was younger, it just wasn't there. The deepest comedy nerd you could be, really, when I was a kid was Monty Python. Oh, yeah, the best.

Or if you were a deep nerd, like Dr. Demento or something. Sure. But that was it, man. You know what I mean? There wasn't this whole other world. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it was very, also there wasn't things like this, which analyze or talk about, or

it's comedians talking about. When did The Simpsons start? I mean, they're on season 30 something. I don't know. We'd have to look it up. But I think my episode I did was after they'd done 500 episodes. Sure, yeah. I just did it a couple of years ago.

But I don't know why. I'm not an animation guy. You do a lot of animation. I like animation a lot. And also, it's like I grew up watching animated shows. I grew up watching DuckTales, so I got to be on it this time, or I grew up watching Turtles,

so I got to be on it. Or like Sonic the Hedgehog. I played that game growing up. Aren't you the lead in Sonic the Hedgehog? I play Sonic the Hedgehog, which is crazy and very exciting. But I find myself nowadays really gravitating to things that I enjoyed when I was a kid, like vintage shirts that I wasn't allowed to wear growing up.

I love finding them now, and old sneakers that I really couldn't wear. Why couldn't you wear these things? I mean, we never really paid that much money for sneakers before. And the shirts, Bart Simpson stuff, we weren't allowed to wear them in the Bronx. In Riverdale, you weren't allowed to wear Bart Simpson's to school. Really? shirts, Bart Simpson stuff. Oh, yeah. But you weren't allowed to wear them in the Bronx. In Riverdale, you weren't allowed to wear Bart Simpson's to school. Really? Because we're in a public school, yeah,

and people weren't allowed. I always went to public school. Wouldn't allow Bart Simpson. Because it said, like, underachiever and proud of it. And so the teacher's like, fuck that. That's not a good message. Or like, fuck homework or screw homework. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But the writing staff also, all people you, I mean, Dana Gould was on it. Sure. Brian was on it. Yeah, I know those guys. Greg Daniels, who created the office and i haven't talked to him he's great he's he's the creator of the new show i'm doing now with uh steve carell and john malkovich oh yeah that's the space one yeah he's he's greg daniels to me is like a genius now what's the approach to that is it over the top or is it straight up no it's like uh it's it takes place

on earth and it's like it's like the another branch of the military what's it called space force right it'll be on but so you're playing in a real environment yes it's like it takes place on Earth, and it's like another branch of the military. What's it called? Space Force. Right. It'll be on Netflix. But so you're playing in a real environment. Yes. It's not like Star Trek or something. And even when I was auditioning, there's a part of it where Greg and I were like, let's

not make sure it's nothing like John Ralphio and stuff like that. So it's fucking Carell and Malkovich, and the guest stars are insane, and the regular cast. There's a great old school Toronto improviser called Don Lake who's in like every Best in Show and Guffman and he's a genius. It's like they found this great cast for people to really shine.

I think it'll be, I hope it'll be good. I don't think you shot, you done? I have, we end in two weeks and then we do reshoots. And what about, what's Standing Up Falling Down? Standing Up Falling Down, I did a movie with Billy Crystal which is insane to me. Yeah. It's like true. How was that for for you it was amazing and it was also that moment the first time you meet him that you you're like holy holy fucking shit and i met him in his office so like the fucking saddle from city slickers is there and he's so lovely and i i bonded with him so hard i

love i love him uh he's become like a good friend but um doing bits on the phone and hearing stories and just like, it's just, I feel like if I came up in his generation, we would just be doing bits all day and everything. Yeah. I look up to him quite a bit, but we had a great time in the movie. And it was one of those things where we're changing in the car. It's a movie that had no money. Yeah. And he was game and he was down and we'd work on the scenes together and we helped punch

up the script together. Good timing, that guy. It was, oh my God. Have you played with him before or no? Well's been on he's i've interviewed him a couple i i i am in awe of him uh as a human being yeah yeah yeah he's he he's very good at being funny on purpose yes he's he one of the lines he told me was like never let them see you work yeah which i thought which was a pretty cool like when you're out there doing your thing like fucking do your thing like don't see whatever,

and he's great at that shit. And you've like been nominated for Emmys. It's weird that you won an Emmy for something for what you won it for. I won it for writing for the Oscars. Right, but like you got, the earliest show got nominated. Earliest show got nominated, yeah. But you don't get it for that, but you get it for.

No, I know, isn't that funny? Yeah, that me, Dan Harmon, and Rob Schraub wrote for the... Hugh Jackman hosted the Oscars one year, and we wrote his musical. And that's what you won it for. Yeah, and I was way too young to be... I just moved to LA, and I went to the Emmys and won an Emmy,

and I was like, what the fuck? So I kept the Emmy where I had in the kitchen, in a cabinet where nobody could see it, where the crackers were. You were ashamed. I just didn't. It was just like I didn't know where to put it. And also, I didn't live in the best part of town.

I was like, if people could just walk in and see the Emmy, they'd be like, who the fuck is, who is this guy? Yeah. So yeah.

But now I have it where people can kind of see it. But it's all rusted because as bits, I would put like crackers in it and shit like that and the salt rusted the thing. Yeah.

So it's got those pox. It's got like weird moves in it. All right, so now why did you go to therapy? I think I always wanted to go. So you were 38, 30 what? I'm 38 now. I went when What was it? You were 38, 30 what? I'm 38 now.

I went when I was probably 32, 33. Wait, so you've been out here a while. You're finding success. Been out here for a decade. And you're successful. Everything's going great. You'd won an Emmy. Won an Emmy right out the gate. You're with Hot Sauce.

With Hot Sauce. Everything's happening. Yeah. And you decide then to go to therapy? I found myself going uh doing things in cycles like i would do the same type of things i was like i wonder why and also i wanted to talk to someone just about shit that's happened i just wanted to figure out why why do i keep doing this why do i like what if i'm in a relationship why do i why does it end like this

oftentimes or why do i feel like this during it? And so I would talk to... Like what though? Because I mean, we all have patterns. I have patterns and it bothers me too. And I still have some patterns that I'm in. But like what? You just, you didn't connect or you just... Or it would be like a supreme connection

and then kind of what happens. Or it'll be like something doesn't feel right or it would just go wrong. Or, you know, one thing that I did at the beginning when I was in relationships is I would be very into somebody. Yeah. Right? We'd be dating.

Yeah. And then I wouldn't want to put a label on it or say that we're boyfriend and girlfriend. Right. And then ultimately that person might do something with somebody else because I had, and then I would be crushed. Yeah. And I was like, why am I afraid of even-

What'd you do when you were crushed? Did you yell? Did you scream? Did you cry? No, I don't yell. I don't yell. Did you cry? I would be hurt by myself. I would be hurt by myself. And What'd you do when you were questioned? Did you yell? Did you scream? Did you cry? No, I don't yell. I don't yell. Did you cry? I would be hurt by myself.

I would be hurt by myself. And what'd you say to them? I'd have a conversation with them and tell them that I was like, whatever. But I'm way better at doing that now that I've been at therapy. And then I'd go home and I'd be like, is it my fault?

Is it my fault? Because I was always the one that didn't say, we shouldn't be boyfriend and girlfriend. But this is, you know, when I was younger and I feel like that happened a lot because probably there's a piece of me that was nervous to be like, do you wanna be boyfriend and girlfriend?

They're like, no. And I'm like, oh fuck. And then- And you think that was it or you think like, maybe this isn't the one? Oh yes, I mean that's so, I think there's such pressure to find a match or whatever it is.

So that was one of the things I would talk about at the beginning and learning that, you know, like if I like somebody, I should fucking say it, how much I like them, instead of being like nervous to tell them. Yeah. Because maybe they don't like me as much and oh my God. Yeah.

So I would talk to them about that or talk to them about other things or like if someone, like when Shanley passed away, like that would be in my head and then it would kind of disappear for a while and then like later on, I'd be really emotional about it. And I learned that like I work quite a bit. And when I have those moments of silence, which oftentimes are like in a shower or like stuff like that when there's nothing to think about, that shit, all the shit that really bothers me creeps into my head then.

And what happens? Sometimes I'll get emotional, you know what I mean, or like things like that. Do you ever spiral? Spiral in what sense? Which is like with, with the sadness of it, the sadness, I think this, it will get me bummed. I'll be bummed and not want to really see people for a little bit, but it won't, it won't make me go crazy. But there's a, but that's, so that was an issue you had is that, you know, that there's something, you know, it sort of fits in, right. There's a bookend here in that, you know, when you improvise and when you are a compulsive worker, uh, and you don't really, you know,

talk about your, your private life in your work or, or, or publicly, and you're constantly moving that sort of when you find some reprieve, just a second where your brain stops thinking about the work or what you're doing, uh, and you're not working in that moment, it just kind of like, it opens up. Yeah, I think it, I was writing something, I wrote some movie kind of about this, but it's like, I think those moments, the ones that like stick in your head.

Also, there'll be things like in high school, something would have happened where I made a teacher unhappy. And then- Those come back? Something will, there are things that like will stick with me. I feel like, aren't there memories in your mind that kind of stay, like have found- Well, I find that some of those memories,

like, you know, depending on how your insecurity is manifesting itself, are sort of small bats you can beat yourself with occasionally. That's absolutely correct. And the question is, are we doing that because we want to be beaten? Or why are we beating ourselves with that bat?

Because we, you know, for some reason, we don't think we're good enough. Yeah, I think, yeah. I think it's probably that simple. And by the way, what a per, and think about that in terms of my relationship thing. I don't think I'm good enough to be in a relationship with this person.

Yeah. It totally, that's a perfect way of putting it. Why do you have that? I don't know. Maybe I was, I think I'm afraid. It sounds like you had good parents and everything. Great parents. I think I was afraid to open myself up and say I love somebody and then find out they didn't love it back. Same way I'm afraid. It sounds like you had good parents and everything. Great parents. I think I was afraid to open myself up

and say I love somebody and then find out they didn't love it back. Same way I'm afraid to audition for the improv team and find out I'm not funny enough. But you know, as I've gone, you know, you figure shit out. I would talk to my dad a lot about stuff, talk to my mom about it. But having that person, man, having that therapist,

and like, he's very philosophical and we'll chat and I just feel like I'm in in the midst of someone smarter than me that I can talk about things that are really I mean everybody's smarter than me but like just like he's he's very attuned to human beings and has seen a lot of comedians also which I thought was interesting you went to that guy yeah well I don't know if it's that guy I can't wait to talk about this guy oh my god if I go to the same therapist as Richard Lewis I mean there's a guy that used to see everybody. Oh, I don't think it's that guy. I think he was in New York.

Oh, no, no, no. It's not like a comedian's guy, but I like, but it's been, I have loved it. And you're still in it? I love it. I love it. So you've been there a decade? No, no, no. I started going four years ago.

Oh, good. Yeah. Well, that's good. So now you got a nice other grownup mentor, the Gamalches. Gamalches are great. And Debono's probably- Ken Debono used to take us bowling. There you go.

Any teacher that treated me like an adult when I was coming up, I really related to them because I liked it. And now you got a guy that'll work you through a little bit of problems, but talk philosophically about things with you and- Don't you think that's so important? Reengage that part of your curious brain when you were from a younger time. Yeah. And he'll say something that I'll be like, oh my God, yeah, that's why sometimes I do that.

Or have you thought about this? And I'll be like, oh, because I have a hard time of taking a step back and looking at macro things. Yeah. How are you at integrating from your brain into behavior and into your heart the things that you realize? Give me a- No, I mean like, oh, that is how I am and I got to change it. How are you? Oh, I love it. I love having that. I'm fine with that. So the cognitive shift? Yeah. I'm able to listen and understand and absorb, but also oftentimes he'll say some

things to me that I can't, he'll explain, my therapist will explain things in such a mystical way sometimes. And I'm like, oh, I can't, you got to help me out. And then he'll quote a philosopher that will help me. But like sometimes he'll be like, you know, we're all this, we're a plant or something like this. You don't do that thing. I can't connect with it as much as.

Spiritual guy, not much. I would love to be, but I'm learning that it's easier for me to be connected if you give me a sentence that I can really latch on to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something like that. Not something vague and poetic. Not like all the stuff you studied all coming up when you're fucking doing your beat poetry on the side.

No, some of that's practical. Yeah? Makes sense. Sure. I mean, it's sort of an access. Like, I think those kind of things are personal in the sense that it doesn't need to make sense to everyone. And sometimes, you know, people can make sense of it in different ways. But if something speaks to you, not unlike we were talking about earlier, like a piece of music or whatever, you may not need to explain it. in different ways but if something speaks to you not unlike we were talking about earlier like a piece of music or whatever you may not need to

explain it it just sort of puts something together for you and you kind of you throw that into the machinery and who the hell knows what it does yeah yeah it's not something you can necessarily latch on to as practical advice but it does move the thing forward i think yeah expand something good talking to you ben talking to you how fun was Great talking to you. How fun was this? It was good. Thanks for doing it. Thank you, sir. Okay, that was Ben Schwartz and me. That was fun. Huh?

Sonic the Hedgehog in theaters this Friday, February 14th. Also, standing up, falling down in theaters and on demand February 21st. I have not gotten my guitars out here. Also, go to WTFpod.com slash tour for venue and ticket information for all of my fairly well populated winter tour dates. Transparency, folks. That's where I'm at right now. By the way, for those, just a quick update on american authoritarianism it's happening full on full on so get used to it or make it make it go away let's make it go away in such a dramatic

way that is undeniable can we i have no guitars out here yet i. I have not picked one of these up in a while. I was never that great at it. But I recently had a ukulele available. I did that. I have one of these around here. Okay, so just a little of this. If I can pull it off. © transcript Emily Beynon Boomer lives! know but chicken tenders yes because those are groceries and we deliver those too along with your favorite restaurant food alcohol and other everyday essentials order uber eats now for alcohol you must be legal drinking age please enjoy responsibly product availability varies by region

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