WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1100 - Juliette Lewis

Episode Date: February 24, 2020

Juliette Lewis spent much of her life facing her fears. She was a natural introvert who was suddenly thrust into the spotlight as a teenager. She had anxiety about going to public places. She saw herself getting into trouble and wondering if she could survive. Juliette and Marc talk about how she learned to manage those fears (with help from the Rolling Stones) and how she still confronts them whenever she acts or performs with her band. They also talk about some of the movies that shaped her life, like Cape Fear, Natural Born Killers and Kalifornia. This episode is sponsored by Once Were Brothers: Robbie Robertson and The Band, Dave on FXX, and ZipRecruiter.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears? What the fucksters? What the fuck nicks? What's happening it's mark maron this is my podcast wtf i'm broadcasting from a hotel room in new haven

connecticut a pleasant hotel this is it is called the blake and the rooms are nice there's a whole kitchen here uh poor dino man dino saw this room and he's like that's all i need man i just i could live in that room it's perfect and uh so i don't know he might I might leave him here and he might live here I'm not I'm not clear on that but I'll see in a few minutes when we're supposed to leave hey it could happen weirder things have happened we have one more gig here by tomorrow uh when you hear this I will be flying home and we will have done it but uh i will say this this has been a a great and emotional somehow emotional little journey that uh i've uh i've embarked on here with my buddy dean del rey juliet lewis is on the show today. She's in this Facebook Watch mystery series, Sacred Lies, The Singing Bones.

It's in its second season, and it's now streaming. She's also going to be on this Bon Scott tribute that Dean's doing. We've done a couple of these where a bunch of us get together and jam and play the music. And that's March 10th at the Avalon in Hollywood. So that's going to happen. You can go to, I guess, DeanDelRay.com to get tickets, but she's going to be involved with that. She sings the rock music. But anyway, so at the end of last year, we marked 10 years of doing WTF, and we thought it would be cool to have some merch that celebrates 10 years of being here. So we got together with the artist Johnny Jones who did the amazing album cover for our record store day release. Johnny went to work on this and came up with the Decades of Domination

collection. You can see the designs on our Twitter and Facebook and Instagram pages or at podswag.com slash merch. You really got to see these designs to appreciate them. But the best I can describe them is that they include laser cats, giant tentacles, UFOs, and global annihilation. How's that? And you can get the Decade of Domination designs on a signed limited edition poster, glow-in-the-dark T-shirt, and something we've never offered before, a writing set, which includes an embossed notebook, af pen and a gift box we've got some enamel pins coming in the near future as well so come and celebrate a decade of domination with us we've all earned it god knows go to pod

swag.com slash wtf or just go to wtf pod.com and click on the merch link. Okay? So as I was rambling there about this journey, there was something about the end of this tour, the end of this material, and coming back to this part of the country that just, I don't know, I was really looking forward to being in New England in the winter. I know that sounds crazy.

I didn't know whether or not it would be snowing or there'd be snow everywhere or it would be a problem yeah I rented a small SUV just in case but these are the this this is the region I started in and these are the gigs that I used to do when I was coming up not even coming up at the very beginning driving around these highways around these states specifically Maine, Connecticut, Rhode Island, not Huntington, New York. I never went out on the island that much. So, you know, kind of flying into Maine and landing in Portland and just feeling that brisk cold and just, you know, having a season, bringing my warm clothes,

layering up and getting ready to do these shows and just looking forward to eating seafood and driving along I-95 and just looking at that scenery in the winter. Those bare trees, the sort of grayness of it all, the sort of just the hours I spent driving into mysterious places, not knowing what the gig would be like, where it would be, how it would be set up, like, where it would be, how it would be set up, who would come at any sort of random pub or bar and grill or disco or bowling alley where the subcontractor had set up the comedy night. And just that weird anticipation, smoking Marlboro cigarettes over one after the other, just driving up, looking at my notes in one of my dad's old cars, one of the Honda Accord LXs that I inherited from him, driving up and sometimes the heater not working, sometimes driving all the way up from New York to Maine. I mean, I did a show in Machias, Maine, which I think is the furthest point east in this country to open for an X-rated hypnotist when I was starting out, Frank Santos.

And I just kind of noticed as we creeped up the coast how the gene pool got tighter and things got weirder and I tell you man there's something about I guess full circle about closure nostalgia I don't know what but we're you know I'm just kind of let go of a lot of my anxiety and and engaged in this process you know to do these shows and it's been pretty fucking great it's really been pretty great but the other other element of what's happening for me is that I'm letting go of this material. I'm letting go of about an hour and 15 minutes of material because it will be on Netflix on March 10th, and that's the end of it. And it's got a dark through line. I don't think it's cynical. I think it's exciting. It deals with a lot of what we're going through now with a certain amount of hopelessness and a feeling of powerlessness and

pushing back against that and how we do it as people. But maybe I'm reading too much into it. It's very exciting that out of Nevada, the national dialogue around politics is going to be actually progressive. And, uh, and he, uh, class issues are going to really come to the fore. It's a, you know,

I don't know how everything's going to fall out or how everything's going to play out, but, uh, it's a very exciting time. I don't know if, uh, if I'm hopeful per se,

but I'm excited. Uh, but here's a, here's an email from somebody that moved me because I do get down on myself sometimes about the type of material I'm doing or what I'm putting people through or how they respond to it because I don't really know. I move this stuff through my heart and through my mind and through my hands and through the pen, and I don't know. It's what I have to do, so I don't really know how it lands all the time.

And after doing it more and more and sort of adding to this conversation that I've created over the last couple of years, I get excited about it, but it's heavy, man. So I got this email from someone named Orla. Subject line, Providence Columbus Theater. Feedback, totally amazeballs. Go Jews.

My man, wow. Long time fan. What an incredible show last night. Part sarcasm, part death, part life, part after death, part Armageddon, part abstract introspection, part intellectual, part imaginative. I want you to know your closing joke is as funny as you think it is. I feel like you were suspended in disbelief as each part unfolded. It was brilliant, and the clarity of its deeper meaning was so refreshing to hear. What a relief there are people out there who see this for what it is, authoritarianism on the rise. We are at the fucking end of times, and endgame scenarios are worth contemplating. Dig it.

I say dig it. It was so incredible to hear a rational person speaking with such charisma and well thought out rhetoric. And you're nice. It really made me think of ancient citizens just discussing worthwhile topics in public spaces like Socrates and Plato. That's my answer to your question at the start of the show when you were like stretching your sciatica and then you just kind of exposed your flesh and bone with the statement what do i know really well i'll

tell you what you know man you know what the fuck is up you have a unique perspective founded in reason and facts and your message resonates your work and the things you say are an echo in this era for reason and goodness you have the power to deliver messages to a theater filled with people and millions more each day. More than that, you are the mark of an era, not so much a leader as more of a spokesperson for people everywhere that are just like, what the fuck?

And it's just so nice to hear logical things being said out loud and the occasional joke doesn't hurt. And you examine life out loud as it unfolds and people need to do that more so thanks all the very best orla p.s socrates was actually a jew is that true oh i just i don't want to forget this because this was pretty important we're driving we're driving down to providence and we're doing a live uh instagram thing and someone or someone on my twitter says

you got to go to Empire Guitars and I don't go to a lot of guitar shops I get overwhelmed, I get tired, I get bored but we decided we went online on the phone to look at what they had and it was a real deal place, they had real vintage shit and I don't know man, I just saw this

Les Paul Jr. they had several Les Paul Jr. from the 50s and 60s one double cutaway Les Paul Jr. They had several Les Paul Juniors from the 50s and 60s. One double cutaway Les Paul Jr. with the single P90. I don't know much about guitars, but I know I like that sound. And I don't know, man. The rest was sort of like, I put it up on my Instagram. Dean shot it. You can see the moment where I'm just like, I love this thing. And decide, I fall in love with a guitar right there on camera. And I bought it and they're shipping it out to me it's my first vintage electric guitar purchase it was completely reasonable it was not like gross in any way

and uh in terms of cost and I can't wait it was so exciting so that happened on this trip as well I fell in love with a guitar and married it and I'm hoping you know that it's weird that we both had to be apart for a few days but I hope when we finally come back together we've made the right decision and the honeymoon is lovely you will hear it I will play it for you so that was exciting that was an exciting part of this trip and now we were here in new haven last night great great show at the college street theater great food yesterday i'm gonna die but i'll die happy i guess uh i gotta get it together here i gotta drive down to huntington new york, which should be exciting. One more show, and then I will grieve the loss of this chunk of material, and it will exist as it did the night

that I recorded this special in October in Los Angeles forever. New bits are evolving. There's about a half hour to 40 minutes of new material that's happening, and so I'm on my way. I guess I'm not going to quit doing comedy just yet so I guess as I as we head into the interview here I just want to thank the people of Cleveland Grand Rapids Milwaukee Tampa Orlando Portland Maine Providence New Haven and most likely I'll let you know on on Thursday Huntington New, for coming out to this winter leg of this show, of this tour, the last legs of it. It's really been a tremendous good time. I've had a good time, and I'm happy to report that Sam Sylvia, for this season of GLOW,

will be the paunchy guy he was the first two seasons as opposed to the emaciated man he was the third season all right so juliet lewis and i talked back at the new studio at the house and she as i said before is uh in the facebook watch mystery series sacred lies the singing bones season two is now streaming she'll also be singing on march 10th uh at the bon scott tribute with hopefully me, if I'm not shooting, and an all-star band for Dean Del Rey's Bon Scott Tribute. You can go to deandelrey.com for tickets to that. But this is me talking to the amazing Juliette Lewis, who I love, who everyone loves.

Curious person, unique person, a one of a kind. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now.

Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed,

how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. You come from a big family. So I always describe, you would need a diagram.

Oh, really? Like that? Well, it's simply put, both my parents were married several times. Oh, right. So my mom married three, my dad married four. Four. When you say this out loud, it sounds insane, but it's what I know. But I grew up with an older brother and I grew up with a younger sister and then I have half brothers and sisters. So the more immediate ones you have like a more, a deeper relationship with basically, or you're pretty close to all of them? It's funny because in my older years,

I'm extremely close with- The half ones? Different half ones and yeah, you know, with- That must be kind of exciting. It's almost like having a, finding like you have this genetic sibling that you didn't know about, but not exactly like that, but to have this,

maybe people who are really directly related to you, but you just never got that close and all of a sudden- You never got that, and then you learn about each other and you're like, wow, I really like you. Like one of my brothers, Bo, who lives in New Orleans, he's just one of my heroes. He was the one. I don't think he would mind me saying this, but he was the one, you know, 15 plus years ago. We always thought we'd get the call that he wasn't going to be here.

And he turned his life around, I think 16 years ago now. He's sober. He helps people. So he's sober, sober. He's doing the thing. Doing the thing. Walking the walk.

Just helping. And he's my hero because there's no type of person or personality he can't sort of jive with or right commune with because he's open yes and he's been through it he's been through it and actually he of course is more um helpful you know the underdog or oh yeah i might lose my words today because every time when i have to do an interview because there's like a little stress to form sentences correctly no there's not and then my mind will play a trick and go i'm gonna remove words this adjective that you always use yeah all right but wait you're sober too right i can't i knew we i I'm not. I'm not AA sober. Right. No, but I'm, as far as not, I don't do drugs.

Right. Like in this way, or when I was a kid. I quit all street drugs when I was 22. Street drugs. I wonder what makes that list. Weed. You still smoke weed? Even weed, no, no.

I don't, even though it Weed. You still smoke weed. Even weed. No, no. I don't. Even though it's legal now, I can't. And I was a crazy weed head when I was a teenager. I wouldn't be. I can't do it. Yeah. So you just like drink occasionally. Yes.

Right. But you don't find yourself in trouble with it. I find. No, no. Not alcohol. That was the one thing I never. But no, not alcohol. That was the one thing I never. But no, my trouble spots are my own mind being too, what's the word? Doom and gloom.

Oh, me too. Dread. And as you're getting older, I have the days where we're all going to die. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Why not? What's the point yeah what's the point you know and you're like well i'm gonna eat this or whatever the fuck you're rationalizing

well even i'm saying even to to invest in one's self you know getting out of bed that stuff yeah that's before you're right so i have to be really mindful of vigilant yeah against anxiety and depression yes hmm like i like i knew people who were um i dated a woman who was borderline personality and that's one of these ones where it's completely caused it's a caused thing okay you know it's like depression can be biological alcoholism can go for generations. But, you know, borderline is like that someone bailed and left that person hanging. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Yeah. That's wild. It is wild. What I want to say, because it's, wow, we just dove off the fucking deep end. We don't have to. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Oh my God. And we didn't even say,

how's your day today? How was your day? Oh, it was rough. It was? Well, no, because you know, some days you don't want to talk about yourself.

Today was one of those days? Yes. Or where you don't want to be. I don't want to be me. Can we take a vacation from it for a second? Or you don't want to do anything? Yeah.

See, my problem is either I work, work, work, and I have to be invested and focused. That's why characters and being invested in that way and focused, because I really can chew on something, a dramatic story. Lose yourself a bit. Yes. Yeah. When I'm not doing that, that's the navigation yeah the life but no i it's today is fine i always get uh very anxious about doing anything you know whether it's talking to people that come over or having to show up for shit like i get and i used to think a lot of my negativity

and the dread is just um it's just anxiety yeah it's just fucking anxiety yeah and that's the way my brain deals with it like there's no way to get out from under it so i just sort of i just resign it to like oh it's gonna be tough it's gonna be bad it's gonna be you know whatever and isn't it the thing because i've had a week i have to do promotion stuff where um there's a thing of what do you force yourself or even yeah seeing a friend what do you force yourself, or even, yeah, seeing a friend, what do you force yourself to do? Because you know in the end there is connectivity. It does get you out of yourself.

And what do you go, no, I'm not, today's not the day. Work stuff, I don't have that luxury. I want to be a team player. Yeah, we force ourselves. But the promotion thing, you know how it goes. Because I've dealt with that too. And it's hard to do it in this particular format. But you figure out a few things you say.

Yeah. And you go do the thing. And they all seem happy. No one's like, I don't know. Oh, no, they're lovely. Oh, wait, can I just say, because we got off into the hemming and hawing, I've been wanting to meet you for a very long time. I feel that.

I felt that that was true. Yes. It was a while ago, right? We were supposed to meet you for a very long time. I feel that. I felt that that was true. Yes. It was a while ago, right? We were supposed to meet several times. I wanted to do your show. Yeah. Just didn't work out scheduling wise. Right.

Oh, here's the big takeaway in our modern day world and being older and experienced is you realize even when you're doing all that showbiz shit and you got to sit down you know people don't know at home uh the the or in their cars or the junket business that where you're talking to someone every five minutes a new face new face yeah hi we're so and so from texas and they talk to you when you realize everybody's doing a job that day like you don't know what their kid is sick or your dad's in the hospital yeah you know you're not the only one so once you realize you guys are kind of on the same side as human beings right that's that's a big shift from when you're a total egocentric child or self and

self-centered yes that's right that's like uh you just provided people with an empathy tool okay right because that's Because that's what happens. Like a lot of times, especially when you're public personality and you get like 10 emails about 10 different things of people wanting something from you. Because you've gotten 10, none of those people know you've gotten 10,

but you just lump them all together into this one sort of, don't they know I want to have a life that I don't have all the time. And you can't separate it sometimes because it's all coming at you at once. But that's a good point. Even with fans, you know what I mean? They come up to you and you're like, I try to always be gracious because who the fuck knows? And my fans are very specific.

If they're in trouble. I was wondering about that. If they're in trouble, they'll tell me. Oh, so you get people who are sharing. Oh, yeah. Well, because you share. Right, so much. And then I get emails sort of like, you got me through.

I'm lucky to be here. It's nice. Yes. Why? What kind of fans do you have? I feel the same way. Like there are people. One time, you know, so I got to explain a couple things.

There was, when I was 19, I lost my anonymity. And I now, I love these terms, and I don't want to offend people or war veterans who use this term PTSD. But there was a shift energetically when you're an introvert. So I was an introvert when I was younger. People don't associate me with this color of being sort of quiet. Yeah. So I lost my anonymity. What do you mean anonymity?

Anonymity, meaning I was now, if I went into a coffee shop, the energy- Oh, so you became a public person. It became this. There, look at that girl. Do you see her? She's from Cape Fear?

Yeah. Right. Cape Fear is what really did it. So I had anxiety. I feared public places. How it manifested itself, I actually fear that violence because it's energy I can't control.

So I get these violent images. I mean, now our time fucking validates it. Back then. Right. So I would get anxiety in public places. Right. You thought someone was going to hurt you? Not me in oh just in general just in general i i was scared was going to go down yeah i was just scared of the the energy i couldn't control yeah so what i was trying to

get at is you said fans one day after i grew up a little bit. Oh, I had this great therapeutic exercise that actually helped me, helped rid some of my panic attacks was a Rolling Stones concert. Oh, that's great. It was an amazing exercise. What do you mean? How does this happen? Okay, so I went with my friend,

coincidentally, Mike Rappaport. We go back early 90s. He's a talker. Yeah, yeah, there you go. So he was just an actor back when. He's doing stand-up again, you know. Oh, yeah. I saw his show.

Where he just goes up and he basically does exact. He could be standing on a street corner talking to one guy or being on stage doing the exact same thing. It was crazy. I watched him and you don't know and you're coming out to support your friends, but he killed it. He did great. He's a character.

He's a character, but he did great. He did have- Where, at the comedy store? In Burbank. Was it Flappers? Oh, Flappers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He did great.

He had set up bits and they worked. He started as a comic. And they're funny. I did not know this. A little bit. I don't know this they were he started as a comic funny i did not know this a little bit and i know him as a dramatic actor well no before he did zebra head or whatever the hell that first movie was yeah that was a movie yeah he was like his sister his half sister claudia her father is the part owner of the improv so he sort of started as doing stand-up to get sort of seen. But he did have...

I had no idea. You're just hearing this for the first time? I'm just hearing this. But isn't it crazy that now in midlife, sometimes your old seeds, you know,

you come into fruition these seeds that were planted earlier. That's such a trip. Yeah, now you can bring it up. And now he's doing it. Yeah. Well, he did it,

like I said before, but then I think he just did it to get into the acting. Yeah. And then he got into the acting. What movies did you do with him? Well, we knew each other from an ex-boyfriend of mine who he worked with. Oh. And then me and Mike, so we knew each other then.

And then we did this little tiny independent that my friend wrote that no one really saw called Some Girl. Uh-huh. Okay, so you go to the Rolling Stones concert. We go to the Rolling Stones concert. And then I love how the mind works because I'm going to benchmark it. We're going to come. You originally asked me, do you like your fans? Right.

We're getting there. This is the tool. This is the Rolling Stones tool for being outside safely in your mind. It was a therapeutic exercise. Mike asked me to go. Yeah. And he didn't know all the struggles in my head. I'm picturing it's Dodger Stadium.

Oh, big one. When was this? 98. Okay. It might have been Babylon. Yeah, that sounds right. The wheels of Babylon. Yeah, something like that.

I saw your whole thing. Was it the wheels of something? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that sounds right. The Wheels of Babylon. Yeah, something like that. I saw your whole thing. Was it the Wheels of something? Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's so great. I differ on a couple of things with you. Okay, so meaning I'll just accept artists. As long as they're not drunk and a mess, I will accept them at 100.

I will accept them at, you know. Yeah, well, I think I kind of do. I think that my discomfort around that kind of stuff is a projection because i because i know i'm getting older yeah and there's part of me that sort of like why the fuck do they keep doing it because i don't want to do it anymore yes you're like then when do i get to stop i don't really want to stop but there's part of me that's sort of like it's so much pressure how much instagram do i have to do do i have to tweet you're like someone point me the way oh no he doesn't do it well yeah exactly you want to be pointed the way but then you know but you know

people and you see how much they post you're like oh this is fucking horrible i knew this that's what was my intro to social media was being in a little uh independent band right or label or anything i literally handed out juliet and the licks? Juliet and the Licks. But that was like probably, but that was MySpace probably. That was MySpace. Right. 100% and then Twitter just started. Right.

Oh my God. I couldn't get over. I was like, what? People just say sentences into space for no reason to no one? And now it's driving the entire planet. Ugh, I hate it. It is the wild id of everything.

All right. Okay, go on. So you go to the Rolling Stones. We're at the Rolling Stones. Yeah. I literally, so one of my favorite movies that helped me through my darkest times, which was when I was 22, I couldn't quit drugs. I had a couple things.

It was a Bob Dylan song. Which one? She Belongs to Me. Oh, yeah. The lyrics in that song. Oh, yeah. The lyrics in that song. Oh, yeah. She's got everything she needs. She's an artist.

She don't look bad. She's a hypnotist collector. I am a walking antique. Is that what it is? Yeah, you remember the far out ones because I fuck up the second line, so I'm not going to say it. I'm always sort of like,

what does that mean? Yours is, I can understand. The first two, they're like, that makes that mean? Yours is, I can understand. The first two, they're like, that makes all the sense in the world. And then he goes off into metaphor. It's cool as shit. Okay, so what's happening? Oh, what about Bob?

So what about Bob? Bill Murray. Richard Dreyfuss, Bill Murray. Yeah, he's a hypochondriac. So I get out of the car. I love, you're playing pinball with my mind right now. At the Stones concert. This is how it happens. So I get out of the car.

Where What About Bob ties in is I go, baby steps out of the car, baby steps through the parking lot. Yeah. All right, all right. There's no shootout in the parking lot. And Mike was so cool. I don't know if he remembers it the way I do,

but he sort of, I explained my deep anxiety and he kind of held my hand through it like you doing okay jules he calls me jules there's like three people in this world that calls me jules and what he's one of them you doing okay and i'm like yeah yeah i'm good all right we're uh in the parking lot okay we're getting there and so we get to dodger stadium he i believe he got he had good uh tickets yeah we're on the floor um of dodger stadium they haven't come on yet he wants to go and get a soda yeah and he's like you gonna be okay yeah um well i'll try because we gotta hold our it's like standing room there's no it's a you're on the floor there's no seats yeah so um so i go yeah yeah i'm gonna be okay just lie because i'm trembling and so as an exercise i made myself turn around and look at all the seats and all the people in Dodgers Stadium.

And it was, you know, like the sky. So it was trepidation. But I looked around and I, you know, anxiety ridden. But I didn't exercise and looked at that much. Rather than had blinders on and like just. Freaked out in your own head? Yeah. Yeah.

So I made myself look at that part. And then he came back. And then here's where the therapy happened once the fucking show started something came over me and i had fan energy i had and me and mike joke about it where me and mick and keith i'm like we love you keith yeah you know and i'm like he's looking where me and Mick and Keith I'm like we love you Keith you know and I'm like he's looking at me and I'm all my I'm like a fan a super fan so I it was weird because this shift of understanding fanaticism and being that made me somehow understand it not like I'm Keith but you get people have been excited to well no it's like it's like that's exactly what that's for though is to relieve the existential predicament of you

like hero worship yeah and believing in or having gods among the living is a great way to displace almost all of your anxiety i think it's great so how does that help you when you go into the supermarket? I don't know, but something, sorry if I get too loud, something shifted. You know, you have these moments in your life where you have a little bit of, oh, okay. Clarity. A new revelation. I was in my mid-20s at that point. Right. So that was helpful.

I had one of those yesterday, actually. A minor one. Revelation. Okay. It was... That's helpful. I had one of those yesterday, actually. A minor one, Revelation. Okay. That's cool. I was just walking out of my house and I realized, like, I don't have to go anywhere to retire. You know, like, there's always this part of my mind where it's sort of like, I'm going to quit and I'm getting out. I'm going to go get a cabin.

I can't believe it. I always have thought this. Yeah. Oh, eBay. Okay, go on. You know, like on get off the grid my boyfriend thinks this way you don't want to live

how long is that going to last but there is that part of you that's going to move to Ireland shit's going to go down if Trump's re-elected I'm going to get out but then I just had this moment where I'm like wait this is nice here my sense of retiring or slowing down is really about

like i'm fucking i'm anxious i'm done with this shit i don't like the expectations yes you know like i'm like i don't like the the chase you put on yourself and that right right right and that's a mental thing it's a it's i think it's just a take on that like you know no matter where you go there you are kind of shit you know i mean It's going to be the same until you change. It's an inside job, man. Well, here's the thing is, those things we know, it's important to realize them anew

every single time like it's a new thought. You just keep realizing, be in the moment. That's it, be in the moment. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. Yeah, I mean, I feel that my entire career as a comic has something to do with facing fear. Yes.

Now, what do you think when you go up on stage in whatever incarnation of you is the Juliet and the Licks, is that a character? No. I get asked this. Oh, and I face my fears when i do any kind of acting work because that that mechanism like you're doing that you're not good enough all that shit tunes in but no uh the licks is i don't know what i'm gonna do ever musically i'm so i have to defeat uh being i have to repurpose right um but the l was my, what I liken as my, sort of like a high school band, but not in high school,

but when I was 30. Yeah, yeah, but it's good. But when people ask, to me it was like an exercising of all your emotionality. I always say I'm an emotionalist. So that was in rock and roll music. And for me, I was like a conduit of the instruments, like the drumming.

I was tapped into drumming, bass, guitar. And then together we'd write songs. But they're very derivative rock music because that's what I was able to do at that time with my bandmates. But I was really proud of the shows because the shows were all about connectivity and people, I wanted them to lose their minds basically in the best sense.

In the way that you did with Keith Richards. That's it. But you grew up in this business. Yeah. Basically, because I know your dad, Jeffrey? Jeffrey Lewis. Like, I remember him from when I was a kid. Yeah.

Like, he was, like, in every movie. He's in a lot of movies, a lot of the Clint Eastwood movies. But he's got that face, character actor guy. You're saying exactly what I grew up with. Yeah. Like, you always know his face. You may not know his name. Right.

And he's a character actor. Comedy and serious movies. That's it. You can do everything. And I always, to me, that's, there's, I just follow so much of my dad's footsteps in that way that I'm honored to be, I want to play characters. I didn't get into this business to be myself or to be cool. Right.

I want to play characters. I didn't get into this business to be myself or to be cool. But yeah, I do feel a little defensive when people are like, you grew up like a Hollywood kid because we did. No, no. No, no, but we didn't. We weren't very, I grew up with not a lot of money with my mom initially. What'd she do?

Well, she was having children, so she was a mom was a mom full-time um but she was a graphic artist now they were but this is a 70s promotional uh stuff for companies but graphic design right pamphlet you know but i always think of the 70s like yeah i i don't think of it is in the same way that i i think of like um i i don't i don't feel like I it was privileged but it seemed like a more kind of gritty or a more exciting time in Hollywood like I don't I didn't wasn't thinking of you as some sort of Beverly Hills no no I wasn't that no I didn't I wouldn't assume that your dad would be a Beverly Hills guy no I don't think Ned Beatty lived in Beverly that's a He's of that ilk. Gene Hackman. Well, Hackman's probably,

like Hackman sort of somehow transcended character acting. He did. But Ned Beatty didn't. Ned Beatty's another one of those guys who's in everything. So awesome.

All those guys, yeah. But did you, were those guys around? Who were his friends? He, no, that's what I'm saying. He wasn't, he wasn't really friends.

You know, my dad's funny. What about with Clint? He was in every Clint Eastwood movie. First, I should say, he's not here anymore. We're in the fourth year. Oh, sorry. Thank you. But when we were growing up,

yes, he would befriend stuntmen. Yes. And he was really into, it was funny, as he reached midlife, which is what I knew. He was kind of an older dad when I was a kid, maybe mid-40s, 50s. Oh, yeah. Uh-huh. And he got into street fighting and taking Muay Thai. My dad was so funny because he was such a contradiction. So he came up like he took dance in New York, right?

He was a New York actor? Yeah, in New York, sort of renaissance. And then he got really into everything that was macho, like knife collecting, guns, later. Because how can you say have taken modern jazz with martha graham and then you're like you know you then you wear interesting what's those gun shirts hetchler and kotch yeah some i forgot well i mean what do you make of that um i don't know my dad's a funny I think he likes archetypes and he was into,

he was reaching into things that I don't know that he felt he totally was that. Well, he would emulate things a little bit. Cause I get, I mean, so he started like in that sort of New York scene in the late sixties and that kind of trip.

Yeah. But he was, so where did they come from? We have a Lewis farm in Rhode Island. Yeah. What does that mean? Dilapidated, meaning the Lewis's. The family owns one?

Yeah, my aunt. Yeah. My aunt Nancy lives up there. Uh-huh. And then he came with his parents to out in nowhere, Victorville. I shouldn't say that. The Victorvillians would think they're somewhere. It's just desert.

It's here? In Wrightwood, it's in the mountains. Here? Yeah, in California. Oh, okay. So he grew up there and then went back to New York. My mom is from the East Coast. She went to like Cooper Union.

Cooper Union, sure. So they were like East Coasters for a bit. Yeah. But he started working late in life in midlife he got success

as an actor like with Clint Eastwood movies Clint took a real liking to him yeah well he did that he was also I guess

in some of those earlier he was in that he was in Warren Oates Dillinger he was in Dillinger yeah with the

High Plains Drifter he has this famous line he's such a baddie he does who are you and he's like that's it oh my gosh so when did you start did you spend any time on sets yes like what planted in yes you did so my introduction to acting land was going hanging out with my dad on sets uh where we and there are a lot of cowboys so we were on bronco billy my first time being on camera is because Clint is like, sure, put your kid in the audience scene. And there's a shot of just me as being an extra in that movie. I was like seven.

But what I knew about this environment was it was really long hours. All the sets I'd been on were dusty. And there were really colorful, long hours. Yeah. All the sets I'd been on were dusty. Right. And there were really colorful, interesting people. Yeah. That gravitated. Of course, yeah. You know, from people with sordid backgrounds. We have no idea.

Same with rock and roll. Yeah. People who set up the stages. Right. So I knew later in life, oh, okay, this is the line of work quote unquote you go into when you're live in your imagination or you like storytelling or characters which i dreamed a lot of as a kid that occupied my headspace it's interesting like when do you did you

i hear this word storytelling so much now and i'm not sure i remember hearing it uh like before a few years ago yeah you know like yeah i mean like do you know do you remember where when you started using that word yeah like okay well i for me you know you hear you phrases and you're like oh that's that describes it because i didn't know what it was i I just noticed it. I'm not judging you. No, that's okay. Because you're like- A storyteller.

Well, no, I talk to actors. I talk to directors. I'm a storyteller. Right. Everyone's sort of like, it's really about telling the story. I'm like, did everyone always say this or is it a new thing?

It's kind of new, right? There's so much new shit too that you're like, yeah, this is the new thing. Triggered. I like this word. I'm like, all right, I the new thing. Triggered. I like this word. I'm like, all right, I'll take it. Authenticity. Authenticity.

That's a new one. Storytelling. So for me, though, I didn't know what it was called as a kid. No, I know. You just might believe. I have to tell you, too, I had the 70s, 80s. What do they call it? There's another phrase, latchkey kid.

Latchkey kid, yeah. Yeah, we were left alone a lot like it was you might border on a little neglect so uh my parents are awesome and they're artists but we didn't have a lot of structure are they out partying no no working my mom was still raised kids, but was working, working, working. She had six total, my mom. Oh, my God. So where are you in the lineup?

So of my mom and dad's brood, it goes my brother, me, my sister. Yeah. And then she married again and had two, oh, no, one kid. Yeah. And that's Bo, oh no, one kid. Yeah. And that's Bo, my hero, who's my hero. The New Orleans guy. Yep. And then there's another two kids she had from her third and final husband.

And she's still around? Yes. That's nice. Are they still married? No. Oh. My mom has been single for an eternity. My mom, okay, it's my dream to play aspects of my mom she's funny you haven't done that yeah i i've looked like my mom in film or coming up actually

this mark ruffalo hbo show i look so much like my mom anytime i curl my hair she had curly red hair she's super irish an upcoming show you're on upcoming show that he produced or he's in he stars in what is it it's called i know this much is true by from a wally lamb book uh-huh and it'll be a six part you and all six limited i'm in three great yeah yeah you keep working it's a part it's a funny it's a and you got your mom you can see your mom in there i see not in the way i act in the show but just visually it's pretty hilarious so when you start doing the work alachke kid hanging out but there's three and you know before when did they get divorced so when i was two oh so really little i've always

known my parents to be split. All right, so your mom, you were with your mom. We were with my mom for a bit. And then when they decide, okay, I have more kids and now you're doing okay financially, why don't you take the kids? It was like that. It was like economics.

So you always lived with one or the other? Yes. You never ran away or- Oh yeah, of course. What are you kidding? Well, and I left home at 14. You could call that running away. I set out to live in the world.

Was I 14? 15. It's really, yeah. Who took you in? Okay, so my family friend, her name is Karen Black. The actress. Yes. Okay.

And she, I lived- Whose friend was it? Your dad's or your mom's okay and she i lived friend was it your dad's or your mom both she was both my mom and dad's friend i i would go to her house when i was a kid i knew her since i was a little wee baby um here's the great irony is that working and this is funny as i look back i'm like oh that's. Working in TV and film kept me out of trouble. Right. Initially. Until I imploded. Fame was troubling.

As a teenager. Yeah. But initially, I was a teenager ditching school, failing, hanging out with criminals. Really? Yeah. That was the thing is when we talk about the mind, different people, different spirits, like you come into this world just having a different, like for me, it was how much trouble can I get in and survive?

Yeah. And that's not, you know, people would probably think something of the sort of me, but I don't know. I had that, that's odd because I had a similar mindset in that, like, you know, how will I know if I'm losing my mind? Mm-hmm. That, like, I was a little nervous about too much trouble, but like when it came to drugs or other kinds of stuff.

Right. I had this sort of like line. You're pushing it. Like, yeah. Like, will I know? Like, if I lose my mind, I had this sort of like line. You're pushing it. Like, yeah. Like, will I know? Like if I lose my mind, I'm going to stop. Like you're going to know. How, I was just, do you know, I've pondered on this

because I thought I lost my mind once. And I did say to myself, oh, how you know you've lost my mind is you don't know. Right. Yeah. I don't know. When was that? That was 22.

Oh, when you were losing it? 22. All right. So, so you're running around. Did you finish high school or was that? That was 22. Oh, when you were losing it? So you're running around. Did you finish high school or did you? I got my GED. Got a tutor. So I technically, but I did not finish high school.

But you're acting starting when you're what, 12 or what? Yeah, 12 and a half, 13, 14. When did you do Cape Fear at 15? That I was playing younger, but I turned 18 during the movie. Oh, so you did, right, you did Vacation, the second Vacation? At 15. Yeah, yeah. Right.

That was great. And then you did, yeah, that's a funny movie. I'm having all these moments, Mark, I have to say. Yeah. These midlife moments where you get to give thanks, I don't know, appreciation to the people that took a chance on me and or the reason i got from a to b and so one of them is we had this little which um what do you call anniversary of with um christmas vacation you did with chevy taste i remember seeing pictures of that and

beverly d'angelo and johnnyi, who went on to do his show. Yeah. It was really sweet. And Chevy was in good form. And it was just sweet. Because that movie plays every year. For Christmas. What are the chances?

Yeah. And you get those little checks. I get those little checks. Yeah. Yeah. And they started putting some faces on merchandise. Oh, really? Oh, let's see what's happening over there.

It's still that popular. Really? It's still happening, huh? Yeah, they do Christmas vacation stuff. It's a holiday movie. It's a holiday movie. That's amazing. You made the cut.

I don't know. I don't know. I just showed up. There's only a few movies that end up making, like Elf is another one, a fairly modern movie that gets a lot of play over Christmas. So wait, Karen Black is a family friend and also one of the most inspired, unique actresses ever. And you live with her?

And she was an influence. I mean, again, when you- It's a wild influence. I could see that. How did she influence you? Were you taking acting classes were you doing no so part of my development is stuff like playing charades at karen black's house when i was little little and we're going okay now you're a such and such she would just call out something to play right and she validated me early on she was really just a beautiful person she's still around she's not around she left for went

i hate the word died yeah um before my dad so hers would be five years ago um but she really validated you know there's these key people who encourage you you have a voice i would have loved to seen you guys work together she wanted that very much she never it never happened i know we we wanted to play uh mother and daughter yeah but she's very much i always call her sort of my creative mother of sorts and then you see her work it's like oh okay we're she's you can see the what similar i don't know just when there's someone not so much is just when someone's so individual there's so much themselves so that's all i ever strive to be is is unfiltered you know just being right so that's sort of counter like intuitive to character acting though you know what i mean like she could do all these things but she could never she didn't

she may get lost in a role but you always knew it was her there's these it's interesting i always know this is about actors is that some actors are always kind of themselves but they just turn some knobs yes but they all like Clooney's great, right? Yeah. He's a great actor, but he's always Clooney. Yeah. But he can make adjustments to where you believe anything he's doing because he's good. So he's a movie star.

Yeah. But then there are people that they're actors that you generally know the source of who they are. They don't lose that. Yeah. But they just make adjustments and they can do whatever they want to do. that yeah but they just make adjustments and they can do whatever they want to do but they're not um you know it's not like um they're not doing weird voices and shit yeah yeah there's like not learning any accents people that are mostly themselves and bringing what that is yeah or

there's like a benicio del toro remember when he was first in usual he's just coming up to me because he's he was in usual assessments and he made this choice of like mumbling every line of silence. He mumbled. Like what the fuck choice is this? It was amazing. He's continued making that choice.

Okay. It's a choice he stuck with. All right, maybe he's not the example. See, that's my- No, no, it is. You worked with him though on some movies. I did. When you were younger

i i my tortures i want to disappear and become somebody else but yes you're always going to be you want to be present i think it's a present thing like for me oh yeah totally in 100 i want to make it look like you do not see any acting like it's breathing that's right that's right so it's like you're losing yourself, but you're not. It's mostly to be in the moment, like because to lose that self-consciousness that you were talking about, you know, to where you're freaked out about this or that, you know, violence. For me, it's people judging you. acknowledge you know in in the sense and do the work in front of you know 50 to 100 people you know surrounding them in different jobs and to sort of be present and and and be in that scene yeah right to get past this stuff yes i mean that's the the real gift i mean you know you

lose yourself but it's just you're not your brain's not spinning your regular shit so that's how you lose yourself because you're engaged engaged in the in the moment and what and i like to say and transcend so you know when you get really lucky you hit a kind of transcendence oh yeah where the all the machinery or the you really enter into the make believe you're creating a different reality right i don't. And you feel it like when you come out of the scene where cut, you're like, what? Right? Yes.

I'm just starting to understand that about acting. I was kind of like a little bit stupid about it. Like I didn't like all the waiting around. But like if you lock into what you're doing and you have enough of a part to really do something, that's what the payoff is. And you know what I mean, you do your shit and then it's like, all right, we're gonna take it,

it's gonna take an hour and a half before we're set up for the next one. It's like, okay, fine, that one was good. Let's do the next one. How do you do, and well, this is what's funny about, because every job I do, I'm like, oh yeah, you have muscle memory, but nothing is easier there's no I was like wow I thought this would I'll never coast because I never want automaticities so I don't and if I

find it you know because sometimes when you come up to you have things that you people then if they imitate it or you're like oh I don't want those to become tricks right but you can see um things you know when i cry i look like how i cry i don't know no you can't complete when i say i want to lose myself meaning i would love if my voice changed if i didn't look like myself and this and that but but more importantly than all that that's another version of ego yeah you want to prove your can transmit transform but really i just want to again tell the story i want to uh be as honest and rich and multi-layered i really love contradictions in people in humanity and that you can pull that like that that's your engagement with a script though you. You know, the script will dictate. Yes. Some of that.

And also like you're one of those people that is uniquely yourself. There's there's nothing you can do. You know what I mean? Like you're one of those identifiable people like, oh, that's that. That's Julia. You know, like there's no way, you way, which is a good thing, because you have a rawness in your emotional accessibility that you have with yourself, and your willingness to be open is what engages that weird authentic thing that you have.

That's neat. Don't you think so? Well, yeah. That's neat. I like this. I'm like, That's neat. I was trying to. I like this. I'm like, how will he describe what I do? That sounds pretty good.

No, I know what I feel and what I struggle or what I transcend internally. But yes, it's funny externally when early on when a few people started imitating or making fun of me i was like oh shit yeah yeah i got some snl imitations and the good thing is i never was too oh yeah who did that was that where they did the retainer thing i think it was janine garoppolo oh they did a lot of mannered yeah stuff and you gotta understand at the time before i did K-Fear, I did freaking 80s sitcoms where they didn't want any naturalism. It was like, don't move your hands. Stand up straight. So you were getting those parts.

I was right before. The little girl thing. Yes. Yeah. And it was super weird. They were trying to conform me early. It's a hilarious story i tell before i got k fear they hired an acting coach for me to get me to stop acting natural oh really basically yeah yeah just because you're

it was a sitcom you're doing your thing well and i was like leaning against the sofa and behaving like a freaking teenager right right knowingly yeah and they wanted these gee dad you don't know you know this yeah so that was the great that's hilarious that is funny so everything they were trying to i almost gave it up at 16 and then i got the audition and then i always say that everything they were marty validated what i needed uh to carry scorsese yes yeah sure oh right special he was going yes you know and he knew to like let me go he just sort of gave me the the room the space and the material and all those he's just a genius because he knows what each actor needs like i didn't know i didn't again i'm not i was academically trained either so so it's all instincts right and he helped cultivate right that my instincts basically so that was like a whole graduate level 100 100%. I always say my directors were my teachers.

And so that's when everything, now your folks were okay with you acting, obviously, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Again, when I jokingly, which I love, we have great humor in my family and with my mom. When I said they're neglectful i mean yeah they're busy folks i had the opposite of what you hear like you're gonna do this and right you know

and yeah right right right so the point is they sort of anything their kids my dad was a great facilitator like oh you're interested in like brother, he gave a camera too because my brother was watching TV and he loved videos. So he gave him a camera. Yeah. And I took like dance and singing and all this little stuff as a kid. So after Cape Fear, though, that was a huge movie. You work with De Niro and you work with Nick Nolte. And who was the mom?

Jessica Lange. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's a wild movie. Movie of greats. Yeah. And that was exciting for you? Were you able to keep your shit together?

Yeah. What's funny, I had another full circle moment when I got to have a dinner with De Niro and Scorsese, Harvey Keitel. Yeah. Who played my dad.

When was this? Recently at the AARP. Uh-huh. This guy. I handed, I gave Marty an award. And had a, just beautiful,

I've had a few, like a tribute to De Niro some years ago. I got to speak and. Oh yeah. But my point is, at that time, it all worked for me.

I never, I didn't really, I didn't know what they meant to american cinema so my naivete yeah it worked great right because i didn't know to be shitting my pants yeah yeah yeah on this job yeah all i wanted i just wanted to do a really all i knew is that this was the time yeah like you better right or do something yeah you better really make be powerful and that for me that's by being as honest yeah and rich as possible yeah in playing the young girl but marty what's so great is he wanted a fully dimensional you know not these vapid um things

we'd seen on screen he wanted this the family and he actually because it was a remake from the 50s he wanted the family to have all this subversion and and complexity moral complexity exactly right the daughter's the gregory peck character was not like that exactly yeah so he made that clear to all of us. And so every scene had a thing of, you know, where the family distrusts. Sexual tension. Yeah. Yeah. Or moral dubiousness.

Masculinity issues. Yeah, all of that. Yeah, it was great. Yeah, he really kind of expanded the whole subtext of the movie. Yes. Yeah. So it makes it scarier. It's funny because I did a scene,

one scene with De Niro, you know, in the Joker. Oh yeah. Oh my God. You were in the Joker. Yes. For a second.

Right. But like, I was very excited about it and I was able to respect what was happening, enjoy what was happening. And even with Joaquin, who was not communicative

because he was immersed. Yeah. You know, I was like, all right, you know, I'm not going to judge him for that. Yeah. He's doing what he's doing. No, I worked with a friend like that. I was like, we are completely different. But you know what?

That's what it takes to get you to go there. And for me, I got to step out of it. Right. When we say cut. I can't. I can't. I can't sit in this. Right.

So, yeah, we're not going to be talking at the craft services table. That's it. You can go over there and brood and talk to yourself. That was Giovanni Ribisi. I don't think he'll mind me. I mean, that's how he worked. I've interviewed him. At that time.

You did? Yeah, yeah. A while back. He's intense, but he had to stay in it. Great actor. Great actor. That's what I'm saying. If you weren't good, then I would judge you harder.

He's kind of done some sort of amazing work. Yes. In the past. In movies that I don't think people really know. Yeah. I've seen him as he got older, but that shit he did in that movie with, what is it called? The Gift? Yes.

Yes. Man. The Blue Diamond shit. He's so funny because he won't let you compliment him he's one of the he can't but now i think he's old enough i'm like shut up you're a titan this was my new the lingo that came out of me are you guys friends yes yeah i'm best friends with his sister um but he did a movie we just did this little independent movie recently called from the James Fry book about a million little pieces.

The one that turned out to be bullshit. The book. Yes. I wouldn't go. No, no. I talk. Maybe it was just one bit. Whatever it was.

I have a problem with that, too. It's like unless it's I don't know. We could. That's a. If you're a writer i mean can't we when we sit and talk sometimes we exaggerate oh no no what was the problem i don't know what he did no at the time like lie saying i got arrested and you didn't get yeah he manufactured a lot of the story and he's a good writer that was always the thing with him was sort of like

why didn't you just just say this is my friends yeah that is true you know he sort of he took a hit for it. And he's one of the first ones to really get nailed like that. That's it. And like, you know, it hit him pretty hard. But, you know, it was clear that he was a good writer. But they're making a movie about it? They made it.

And it's one of the, you know, it's really hard to do small films. It had a, you know, a little release at Arclight here. I mean, all over. A little bit a limited release. It starred Aaron Taylor-Johnson and directed by Sam Taylor-Johnson, who's an incredible filmmaker. They're married. Okay.

It's beautiful. It's very poetic. But anyway, Giovanni was in that and is transcendent. Do I say transcendental? No, transcendent. It's good good he's phenomenal and his sister acted but does she do it anymore or is it there's another one or is there two no it's marissa rubisi she totally was an actor for a while and that it's not really her thing

she wrote she was the friend i love this comes full circle yeah that i did some girl she wrote that with my other good best friend, Bree Schaefer. Yeah. They wrote this really cool LA story script called Some Girl that Mike Rappaport was in. Right. But she's a mom of two. Yeah.

And she did some designing, clothes designing. She's just one of these creative moms. Right. But she's not really an actor person. Yeah, because I talked to him a while ago. I think it was a good interview,

but it got tense because I asked him about the church. church yeah and it gets a little weird sometimes i thought we could i thought that would come up and i have all oh you got oh so you've known you and i yeah you've known them through that vonnie um no oh we have there's a whole bunch of friends that i have from los angeles but not specifically through scientology but you're you grew up in it um let's see how i would define this again because my parents weren't they're very like um i would call it free thinkers but the the the problem with the discussion of scientology is there's so much um I don't know if you'd call it folklore

that might be true for other people and their experience yeah that's the whole thing so the point is to grow up in something nothing was ever forced on me not right schooling not my profession not religion so I didn't grow up in a household like this is what we believe right this guy is a deity and i did grow up with there's concepts in scientology like we had things like um it it's really basic stuff like yeah communicating or value valuing right what a little kid, their point of view. These are things not written, but that you should listen to people. But as far, there's a metaphor I wanted to use of like,

because all this stuff, it's so bad about Scientology. And I- We're in this stuff, this stuff that you- Oh, with the TV show, all the stuff that- But there is reality to that. It wasn't your reality. It's not my reality. So it's like, I always make the analogy, and first of all, I'm a spiritualist.

If you want to define me, I don't like when me as Juliet is defined by something else or an association with- Right, right, right, right. As far as my philosophical beliefs, defined by something else or an association with. Right, right, right, right. As far as like my philosophical beliefs, I have everything from the Tethered Soul. Is that the latest? Yeah.

That's the latest book. Is it? Untethered Soul. Untethered Soul. Not tethered. Right. And then I just got this other book called Welcoming the Unwelcome, which is all I'm trying to fucking figure out.

You know, I have three friends who have stage four cancer. I have a friend who fell on his bike, is in the hospital. So all these things are hard to navigate. But back to the Scientology discussion. So here's the analogy. Yeah. If someone came out and did a show on veganism and how if you, veganism, it made me sick. My organs, this happened and this happened.

And you have another person who's like, well, that's, it was, my experience is totally different. it was my experience is totally different. I'm not, I'm in no place to ever invalidate someone else's experience, but I don't want my experience to be invalidated too. Or associated with it. Associated. That's the other thing is some of these people who have all the negative slant,

they'll take anybody's name who's been associated with Scientology and say that you're condoning these horrible things that they have, I'm not any, that's not. Well, the weird thing was to me, and I'm no historian about it, so I really can't do the sort of

kind of like the pressing, in-depth or pressing interview about it. But like any sort of modern belief system or something that seems or starts out as a cult is that there was a time where the ideas were out there and free to take and utilize how anyone might want to. There were people who entered Scientology in the 70s as a self-help sort of option, took what they needed from it and moved on. There are very smart people that read some of this stuff of Hubbard's process and validated it and used it in their life, but didn't get locked into the church.

And then there's levels within the church, it seems, of adepts, new people, the way the church has evolved over time, the depth of the teachings, what it requires of you know, adepts, new people, the way the church has evolved over time, the depth of the teachings, you know, what it requires of you financially, that like any other sort of racket, you know, causes trouble, causes problems. And the people who are explaining that are people that are disgruntled and upset. Or in some cases they felt, you know, abused and violated. Yes. And that's where I'm like, if you ever think or have experienced abuse, do all the appropriate channels to nail anybody to the wall. What was your experience with it? Do you still? Mine is sort of come and go as you please. I've done read books.

I've done some courses. Right. I've done the auditing, which is the equivalent of sitting, talking, and delving into your mind. And I had things that were really helpful for me early on. But that's so I don't have the thing that I'm owned or tied into something. Or even the, I don't have this thing of, I'm an opinionated questioning person. Sure, and also you went through some serious shit, some serious turmoil and trouble and crisis in your life. And it didn't seem to offer whatever support was necessary.

Oh no, I did get help at this time when I was 22. Oh, you did? Oh yeah. From the church? i don't even like this all right from the church from the organization yeah like doing doing it's it's something you sort of you learn and you apply okay there's little things like um everything hubbard has written down things like a locational, this thing, a process you do where you orient yourself in the environment if you're feeling overwhelmed. So there's like little things like this you would never hear, right?

Because you only hear about this, all this other stuff with money and stuff like that. But the specific writings and teachings you don't hear about, that's for sure. Yeah, where you're like, what are people into? People mock it more than anything else. They mock the thetans and they mock holding the cans. Exactly. Yeah. Which I can take mocking of all different kinds.

I don't care. What I do care about is do not take my name that I worked, that I live in my skin and associate it with a story that's not my own. Right. Or experience that are not my own. That's all I'd ask. That's all I would give to somebody else. But as far as, and also money and shit, I don't, I pay, you know,

I get Reiki healing. I'm really into this. I do acupuncture. These are things paid for. Anyway. Okay. So what does that mean? you do give i'm saying you pay for a service any sort of spiritual but i don't i don't have it people are looking at what

about the hundred thousand that's not my experience you don't it's not i don't know i didn't pay a hundred thousand dollars so i don't know that's not my experience maybe it was yours you're not part of the tithing no okay so wait so now tell me so locational I like that locational is good

and you'll see some of this stuff is like it's common sense stuff sure but yeah looking around I've had

I've used that when I was well it's sort of like an extension orienting yourself like when you're about to do a show you can look around

i'll look to the back of the room but yeah it's like that moment you had the stone show that's it yeah so maybe i was doing something rooted in that yeah but what was that like how did because like i'm fortunate in that i've never gotten that famous yeah like i keep a kind of mid-level presence yeah publicly okay my celebrity has achieved, I can still live a comfortable life and go to the store. So when all that started happening to you, what was the direct effect? How did you know that you were losing it? What was it that you felt caused it

outside of going to the supermarket and feeling the fear of violence? Well, before that,'t didn't go straight to that it was just more the energy shift like when natural born killer is right right no i saw that recently another full circle moment was totally crazy but oliver and woody harrelson so oliver so woody harrelson they were screening 25th anniversary of natural i think i talked to woody like the day of that oh my god and i love woody so much oliver you know he's a funny guy yeah um but i watched it and i am all raw fucking

yeah i knew but i but he see oliver let he wanted the playing field. He wanted every idea you had. You sort of, it was like a guttural purging. He, he, he created the environment. We could improvise. We could do all that because I knew I was sort of going to wield lightning. But also I have to assume that as an actress and somebody who's a searcher like you Killers is one of them because Oliver wanted you you could not be lazy like you he just wanted every idea so he really valued people's creativity and like I'd show up I wrote I wrote a scene and be like yeah let's do that um and it was psychedelic it was a psychedelic film in that you're going to go, okay, you're driving in a car and you're trying to get away from the cops, but there's demons running by the window. So just act that. You're like, how the fuck, what does that look like? You're on mushrooms, fearing the cops.

And then there's devil people. You know, so, so it was the ultimate make believe shaping you up. You know, and for me, it's flawed. I almost say it's a little bit campy, but I know I scare a lot of people. As a comic, I thought that the weird thing on TV with Rodney Dangerfield, that was the fucking greatest. Like, it was weird and fucked up.

Yes. To get Rodney into that zone. Like, who dreamt that up? Right. I know that Oliver, how that came about, you know, and there's all that friction or history that it was Tarantino's script. You know, I didn't know this whole backstory.

Right, sure, sure. But so a lot of it's Oliver's subversion of what was there. And so he, I sort of said because i was like if you want any i don't know if oliver will remember this either but i said you you can't have a female be this way without some kind it just never was in history. So with Eileen Wuornis, like all we had of female serial killers are very specific. So I was like, some of it's got to have

a backstory or something, which I know. Later I talked to Tarantini. He was like, he hated this idea that, you know, no, Mickey and Mallory are just the way they are natural born killers yeah but so my that was tarantino that was turned to you but to oliver i said yeah you got a show i mean i don't know this might be too crazy you gotta show that mallory came from something that made her like a fucking hyena or something and he took that and then did a laugh track weird sitcom yeah with the family laughter with the molestation you know that was his freak

show mind uh isn't that crazy that so you were on the set with Rodney for a day or two? Oh, my God. What a lovable, lovable sweet man. And I had to jump on his back, and I think I might have hurt his back. Even though I was lying. He was like, you know, be easy. I'm not going to try to do it. Be easy, will you? Yes! I wasn't going to try to give you an impersonation.

It wasn't good. Oh, I tell you. I tell you. Yes! impersonate it wasn't good yeah oh i tell you i tell you yes he was like i think we did a couple takes of me hopping jumping on his back and he's like all right that's enough uh but he tried to be a sport in the lunacy all right so the transition from anonymous you to not anonymous you that led to the sort of meltdown no No, I think on the way, you know, earlier. You gotta go earlier.

Yeah, I was like, I had always that split problem of medicating. I was a crazy pot smoker. And then trying to be good, not medicate. And then all that, you know, responsibility. Because you feel sort of responsible for why you're getting this attention, yet I was just turning 21. Right.

And so I remember a switch going off in my mind going, fuck it. Right. I'm going to act like any 21. Yeah. Because everybody kept saying, oh, you're just 21. You're just 20.

Because I was actually trying to navigate sort of a grown-up responsible thing I just didn't have the the tools for right so I did get into drugs yeah I never that's not I don't really specify uh-huh because then people they'll hang it on you did you get did you go to rehab or you didn't uh yes yeah yeah I mean I did well I didn't technically go to a rehab, but I had a sober, like a person help me. Oh, yeah. Detox and stuff at 22. Yeah.

Yeah, it was that. It was that type of drug. Right, right, sure. Okay, I'll just say, because I love in drug culture, because I was a downer person. Yeah. Because in drug, it was like,

what, fucking acid? I was an upper. Coke or meth. So I was the downer.. Yeah. Because in drug, it was like, what? I was an upper. Fucking acid. I was an upper. A coke or meth. Yeah, yeah. So I was the downer. You like to go down. I don't know. Or the painkiller thing.

Sure, sure. Well, no. I mean, I can tell you're hyper. Why not level it out? There you go. But for me. This is my cold brew and, okay, whatever. Cold brew, get me.

Home stretch. I think cocaine had to, I think it had a Ritalin effect on me like where you focus yeah it throws me up you know yeah it does that

but so if you could name then because like it's interesting in thinking about the movies like from Cape Fear Natural Born Killers

but then like even that it wasn't a huge part but it was a significant part in was it Husbands and Wives? Which was it? Oh yeah, that was a big deal.

It was a big deal because like, you know, you played kind of a regular college student person. It's like, look, she's fucking normal. Yeah. She's fucking normal. No, here's what's funny. So I had this thing and you can't,

it's just luck of the draw. And you were like the one young character woman in a movie that he had sexual chemistry with that he didn't fuck. Yeah. In the relationship. In the movie.

Yeah. So yeah so here's the trip I had this run in the early 90s where you're like what the fuck? Who gets this?

What's eating Gilbert Graves? So that's Lassa Holstrom I'm a normal sort of zen girl. I'm telling you the Natural Killers was the cap on it and that's where everyone was Holstrom. I'm a normal sort of zen girl. I'm telling you, the Natural Born Killers was the cap on it, and that's where everyone was like, holy shit, this girl is nuts. So it would go from Cape Fear, Husbands and Wives,

What's Eating Gilbert Grape, California, Natural Born Killers. There was other movies, but those are the ones. Those are the ones that hit. Some are cult classics like the California. But where I did that didn't hit was the comedy i did a comedy was steve martin it was a nora effron comedy called mixed nuts yeah with sandler um rita wilson that dropped after natural born killers or right that was in between yeah i followed natural killers it hadn't come out yet i did did a Steve Martin, little Nora Ephron comedy.

No one saw it. Oh. So had someone saw it, they would have changed who I was. But this new, I guess we should talk a little bit. About current things. The Sacred Lies, The Singing Bones. Yeah. It looks pretty intense.

It's a good mystery, I'm happy to say. But it looks like- It's a real cliffhanger, character-driven- Supernatural elements? It feels that way, but it's not. Okay. It's more like flashback. So it's a movie, a show, not a movie.

Yeah. So this is this new thing, Facebook Watch. Yeah. You get these offers and you're like, what is this platform? Yeah, how do you see it? Yeah, oh, I forgot about that. So this is this new thing, Facebook Watch. You get these offers and you're like, what is this platform? How do you see it? Yeah. Oh, everyone has it.

It's so simple. You just go online, click some buttons, and you're there. Everyone who has a Facebook page. Well, and you can download it like you do Hulu, Apple, blah, blah, blah, on your big remote. I don't know how to work those things. Me neither. My boyfriend does that. Good.

So the point is this was a great team. You have Raelleucker who had done true lies no that's not the name true blood true blood thank god i'm not even pitching correctly you did it she was a writer okay she's the show creator it's character driven cliffhanger uh is it procedural no no not at all what is that what's the pitch what's the what's the oh god i'm i'm a terrible pitcher but no but like what is it about so i'm obsessed i'm sort of this hermit person shut in are you a professional not at all are you just a person i'm a person who lost her sister who her sister was murdered okay it is what

is my driving obsession is to always find and give the identities back to all these cold cases and it's loosely based on an amalgamation of cold cases and all the there's 40 000 i think really uh unnamed murdered victims is that true, I better get my numbers right. A year? No. Just existing today, 40,000. Yeah, yeah. But it's something that Raelle Tucker, the creator,

was really, researched it. And so there's this really involved story where I befriend a foster girl because we think she might be connected to this, that, and the other. But I'm obsessed. I'm one of these people that's obsessed with true crime and cold cases, but it comes from

a deep place of trauma. So it's like this really multi-layered character. Wow. And she's super, no vanity. It was a fun character to play. She's a gay woman who's very semi-antisocial, but has a huge heart. And she just sort of, so it can go on forever because there's 40,000 of them. Well, no.

The Singing Bones is this one case. Oh, okay. It's all related to this one case. And they were, it was a season before, I guess they call it an anthology, where it's different people, different case each time. It's this whole thing now. People do limited series. No, I know.

It's instead of movies. I like it. I mean, I miss the movies, don't get me wrong, but I do like limited series as well. Now, were you happy for... I didn't realize you did two movies with Brad Pitt, both of them kind of menacing. You did like a Lifetime movie

with him back in the day and you did California. Okay, let me just say something. It's not a Lifetime movie. This was pre-Lifetime, but you could call it an after-school special kind of vibe. It was before you both were...

It was before. We were just two little young actors. He is a cool, it's a cool piece of history to come up, you know, come up with him, come up with Leo DiCaprio and Johnny Depp. Yeah. But,

um, yeah. And then we did California. Yeah. And that was neat. That was a trip. There was a first time director Dominic Senna

who went on to do big huge movies like Gone in 60 Seconds and do you do you talk to Brad ever? I've run we've seen each other places

yeah at different times yeah when he was married yeah to Jennifer earlier said hello to both of them.

Were you happy for them? Oh my gosh, yes. We're just like, it's like people you sort of, not school, but you sort of, you came up together. Yeah.

And he's a very good person. Yeah. So I always wish him well and so I was very happy for his whole year he had and yeah. No, that's great because a lot of times I ask people that and they're like, yeah, I never had. And yeah. No, that's great. Because a lot of times I ask people that and they're like, yeah, I never talk to them anymore.

No, I don't know. Like, you know, obviously not everyone keeps in touch with everybody they work with. But it sounds like, you know, you're grateful and happy and it's always good to see that. Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, there's people in your life you do. You, I don't know, not family, but my ex-husband. I mean, I was married for a minute we were both 26 yeah but like he's like family to me i don't talk to him all the time but i always

you just want health and happiness for those you don't have any people resentment or not at all and also like i you know now i've kind of half been thinking about what you said at the beginning for the entire thing about like you know like that you you part ways with me on my uh opinion of the rolling stones i i but like i do want to be clear that you know i'm not an ageist that's the word i was gonna use okay go on and you know it's just you know i love them so much but i do hold them in a certain place and i can appreciate, certainly. I mean, the only real negative thing I say is just a little dig at Mick. But look, I bought that blues record, Blue and Lonesome.

Oh, God bless. That's good. And it's one of the best records I've heard in the last decade. Wow, that's neat. Well, it's a blues record. Okay. Are they covers? Yeah.

Okay, I'm going to get it. But it's like a straight-up blues record. Okay. Are they covers? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to get it. But it's like a straight up blues record. It's like it could have been the Stones' first album. Right. With the song list they did. I love hearing that. And it's so interesting to see a bunch of those guys who started out in earnest as a blues band.

Yes. Now play the blues straight up. That's it. Because it's uniquely theirs. Because any idiot can play that music. Yes. But the Stones own it as these old guys that have had a whole life. Yes.

But I just want you to know that I do respect the old dudes. That's awesome. Wait, before you leave, wait, one other thing was, because when I watched that Stones, it did remind me of when Led Zeppelin reunited. I got to be at that concert yes um was it for ahmed it was a guy in business sorry i don't know ahmed urtugan yes yeah so they came together it was the drummer's kid bonham's son yeah uh jason yeah um and i had a friend who's very uh no the led zeppelin 94 uh 74 that's it like don't don't fuck very, I don't know, the Led Zeppelin 74.

That's it. Like, don't fuck with me. I don't want to. Okay. But I saw it and I was just, I just was like, I don't give a shit. This is Robert Plant. He didn't hit the high notes. Yeah.

But he hit a lower note. And it's Robert Plant hitting the note. Jimmy Page. There was a cohesion. And Jason, it was, you're like, okay, touche. Because those are some tough boots. It was good. Anyway, I liked it.

My friend was not, he was not having it. So I understand. But I didn't, wasn't a, you know, I wasn't a loyalist at that time. Like, I didn't grow up. you know i wasn't a loyalist at that time like i didn't grow up i came late well yeah i'm zeppelin i remember when i was in high school like i'm 56 when in through the outdoor came out which was really the last studio record i think and that was you know that was in the late 70s probably if not 1980 and you know it was still good but but i think my the thing with me in terms of my brain

is not unlike well you have these guys you have whatever their work is that that meant the most to you yes it's sort of mythic right of course it is and like in it's nice i went and saw the stones like the last tour not the not the yeah i think a couple tours back when i wrote that bit and it was great and they were really playing i was excited yeah you acknowledge all of that you know and you know and i really i got i and i and i loved it uh but and also a lot of times this the stuff that we're longing for what we're nostalgic for was even it was before our fucking time yeah it wasn't even a real memory it's not a hundred percent well it reminds me of when prince was touring and how he wouldn't play remember because of um the licensing religion no but he also his religion i forgot what it was

jehovah wouldn't play a little red corvette or darling nikki or he would do these jazzed up versions that fuck with you yeah so they tease you you. It's a tough thing being an artist because at some point it's good to have a fuck you in you all the time. Do you know what, am I here to please you? Sure, yeah. So it's a good spirit to have, but as an audience, a greedy little thing.

I haven't seen Bob Dylan yet. I don't care. Never. There's certain people I haven't. I got to see Tom Petty's last show I saw the second to the last one yeah at the bowl was that where it was at Hollywood Bowl yeah I felt those guys fell from the heavens and it was uh something next to God like there was top form if there's any positive you can say they went out and topped people love Dylan they

I know guys see him all the time that you know he's hit or miss you know sometimes he'll hit it but like also it's like he's a guy that's not afraid to age yes so like you know he probably is on some level but he's not trying to be anything he isn't i mean you can hear him yeah he just seems to want to die at a hotel somewhere you know after a state fair show you know so you if that's the way he wants to go, why wouldn't he want to do that? He's giving you what he is. Yeah, he's, where do you live? On the road, man, you know? That's it, right?

Yeah. And I love that. And I, you know, I like the old guys. I definitely like the old guys. It's a vulnerability that's tricky. Age forces a vulnerability. I can see that. Do you know what I mean?

Which is not bad, necessarily. But like, you know, having interviewed some of them, some of the like Roger Waters or Neil Young, you know, it's just sort of interesting, you know, that they're just, they're fragile dudes, you know. Yes. But they are, you know, they are the geniuses. They are the gods. But there they are. Just a little angry old man sitting in front of me. That's it.

100%. I can't believe you interviewed those two. Those are who I want to see as well. Yeah. And then Roger Waters, I didn't get to see that, the last tour he did. Was it two years ago? Yeah, they're great. And it was great to talk to them.

But then there's also a part of me being sort of the end of the boomer spectrum where really it's sort of like, when do these guys stop? Right. You know what I mean? But they're both so vital. And that music is timeless. That's the other thing about music is it's magical like nothing else. It's like people want to hear that song. Play that song that we know for our whole life.

Yeah. Sing that song for us. Well, and as long as it's vital to people, they don't have to stop. And I think it's important for me. I just and I know you see. I think that's right. Music is like when my dad, he had not to bring it to this. But he had Parkinson's dementia and couldn't bear those forming sentences.

And one of our last fun things was listening to Van Halen's uh jump oh yeah and and I also took him to a Steely Dan concert he was all Steely Dan when I was growing up and he in that time was not sick there was no time at that time there was no sickness there's no no time. You can transcend in the music and it's just so deep and beautiful and it's, you know,

it goes right in. Right in. All right. What was this, nine hours? About, about nine. Jesus.

But it's great, it was a great nine hours. I feel like, I mean, I have no place to judge. I hope everyone enjoyed it. Yeah, well I did.

I did. Thanks for coming. Bye. That was Juliette Lewis. I love her. The series, her series, The Sacred Lies, The Singing Bones, season two is now streaming on Facebook Watch. And don't forget to go to podswag.com slash WTF or WTF pod.com and click on the merch link.

Get yourself some stuff from our new decade of domination collection, signed posters, glow in the dark shirts, writing sets with designs by artists, Johnny Jones. My Netflix special premieres March 10th. I'll talk to you Thursday. Boomer lives. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence.

Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. podcast episode where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the

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