WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1103 - Thora Birch

Episode Date: March 5, 2020

Being sixteen is tough for almost everyone. But when Thora Birch was sixteen, she went from being a familiar child actor to the girl from an Oscar-winning phenomenon, American Beauty. That movie changed her career, but it was her follow-up movie, Ghost World, that changed her whole outlook on life. Thora and Marc talk about how she adjusted after that period, what she focused on when she stepped away for a little while, and how she’s reintegrating herself into show business with the goal of expanding her artistic pursuits, while also spending some time on The Walking Dead. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace and SimpliSafe. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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customized business insurance policies starting at just $19 per month. Visit Zensurance today to get a free quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. Lock the gate! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what the fuckocrats what's happening i'm mark mar. This is my podcast WTF. Welcome to it. Welcome to the struggle. Welcome to the show. This is a wrestling show, man. This is a wrestling show. Today, that's what I think. I'm wrestling with this new guitar, goddammit. Wrestling with it. It sounds great, but it's hard to play, man. And I gotta get it. I gotta get it. I gotta get the hang of it. It sounds great, but it's hard to play, man. And I got to get it.

I got to get it. I got to get the hang of it. I love it. I'm not saying I don't love it. Sometimes you wrestle with who you love and what you love and with who you are. I would say most of the time, for me anyway, I don't know what you're about. Thora Birch is on the show today you all know

thora birch we all know her we love her come on man she's currently on the walking dead which airs sunday nights on amc you remember her from american beauty of course ghost, other things. That was some wrestling. Little bit of wrestling. I mean, I could tell you more about it before we talk to her specifically. But I was happy to see her. Happy she came over. So here's what's happening. The cold, first.

The last time I talked to you, I was sweaty. And the last time I talked to you was before the Joe Biden surge. That guy's addled, first. The last time I talked to you, I was sweaty. And the last time I talked to you was before the Joe Biden surge. That guy's addled, man, addled. What a tragic series of events we're having. Fucking pathetic. The whole goddamn thing. Bernie, clear as a bell. It's like a fucking joke.

Look, man, I don't know what I'm going to be able to do. I really don't. I do know that my special is coming out Tuesday. I'll talk to you on Monday about it, but people in the press got it yesterday. I'm pretty fucking proud of it.

I'm glad you guys are going to see it. I've shown some friends the thing. Gotten some good feedback. I don't have many friends. I showed one friend. And my producer. Haven't heard from Brendan yet. But Judd said he liked it.

Had some nice things to say about it. He wanted to see it early. He's earned that opportunity, but I'm excited you're going to see it. I'm excited about it. Looks different than most specials. Shot by the inimitable Lynn Shelton, who also wants me to inform you. Apparently to her ears, when I talked about my cold, I was riding it out alone.

But I was being cared for. She made me soup. She felt my head. She took my temperature. She got me stuff from the supermarket medicines so i don't want to sound like um some uh you know guy out in the wild on my own out there on the edges of uh the cold front by myself she felt like i had revised history excluded her from the narrative she made me soup and she uh she took care of me to it okay all right i'm done with it

she did she helped me out thank you so look I ended up the guy who I sent that text to, to refresh your memories, basically saying that he's shitty and his wife is shitty after he stood me up a second time. You know, I groveled over text and, you know, he said, it's not a problem. We ended up having lunch the other day and it was lovely. We talked about stuff, about movies, about what we've always talked about the few times we've hung out. I don't think he told his wife about it, which is good. I explained again that it was a bad day and I was on steroids for my back and I was angry, but it was fine.

And I'm glad because I enjoy him and I enjoy his work and his wife's. No, I'm not. I'm still not going to say who it was. You can guess. But anyway, so that worked out. maybe i'll read more of your emails um another time okay all right good moving on so i went to a secret uh secret clubhouse meeting last night for the first time in months with my buddy Jerry. And got to talking.

I'm a little consumed, man. I'm consumed. You know, there's a funny thing my brain does as we head into true authoritarianism with little hope on the horizon. But some excitement. Maybe, maybe. I'm not saying'm not uh seeing i'm not saying it's over hey you know if we can possibly exchange one mentally addled fucking devil for a mentally addled okay guy i guess that's america but maybe something surprising will happen.

Maybe the momentum will shift and something fucking spectacular will happen. Huh? But point being, you know, I fester about bullshit and I'm doing okay for myself and I'm happy with the work I'm doing. My specials airing. I'm about to start shooting glow. I'm challenging myself on a lot of levels. I'm about to start shooting Glow. I'm challenging myself on a lot of levels. I'm trying to wear different glasses occasionally.

The Aretha Franklin movie was exciting. I'm just saying things are going well, but I still, especially with my comedy, because I put so much of my heart and mind into the goddamn stuff. It's life or death for me, man. It still is. That's the tone of the thing. A year and a half, two years, I worked on that stuff that's life or death for me man it still is that's the tone of the thing a year and a half two years i worked on that stuff that's in the special and my fear is it'll just disappear into

the churning cloud into the hungry ether and dissipate into a million pieces that reorganize themselves as one occasionally for somebody sitting somewhere. But that's fine. But I'll judge myself against the more successful sorts. Hey man, everybody likes them. Not everybody likes you. I've never been the everybody likes you kind of guy. But sometimes I still find room in my heart and my mind to resent and spite more successful people that I like so I've got to wrangle that shit man and then I realized the other day like most of these cats

and kitties as the great lord Buckley would say most of these cats and kitties are 20 20 years younger than me they're 35 36 these babies 37 maybe 38 perhaps these cats and kitties i'm 56 they somehow manage their talent on the natural arc of life trajectory i'm in the fucking hail mary past trajectory i'm i am the made it in the fucking Hail Mary past trajectory. I am the made it in the second half guy. The final quarter, I hope not. But I can't judge myself on sort of well-managed people who had enough of their shit together to be career focused. And they come up in a generation where they realize their brand. They realize they are one.

They realize how to maneuver the content platforms and to sort of like control and put their talent out there in beautiful ways that aren't, you know, just sort of fucking throwing ropes out of a hole. of a hole it's a predominant form of my expression is if i can just get this rope to hook on to something up there outside the hole maybe somebody will see the fucking rope but i'm out of the hole i've been out of the hole for a while climbed up out of the hole but i'm constantly repelling that is a double entendre but these younger cats and kitties they know what's going on because they got their shit together at a younger age than i did so i just have to be grateful and and appreciative of the people that that i have that dig me and understand me and not turn into it like it i just want to fuck up my happiness folks that's all i just want to fuck it up i've just barely figured out how to handle it and there's part of me that just you know immediately is like, it ain't, it ain't enough, dude. It ain't enough.

But listen to this subject line. Fuck man. You saved my life. Hey Mark, a few years ago, I sent you an email entitled 27 year old pill guy, two months clean. You probably get a ton of these, so I don't expect you to remember. But for me, that single email and response helped push me onto a path to turn my shit around. I asked you how you got sober. I had no money for rehab, and I wanted to see if you thought rehab was a key thing for your recovery. I was lying when I told you I was two months clean in my email. In fact, I was deep in the addiction. You emailed me back with some hard truths. The fact you didn't bullshit me with a fluffy response really reinforced the fact

that it's all on me to save myself. I realized the things that were going to help me were ready for me to utilize. You told me if I really want to kick drugs, I needed to quote, just start doing the things you know you need to do. Unquote. You told me to bite the bullet and detox all the shit that's been killing me. And then you advised me to go to some meetings and listen. I printed that response out. I kept one in my car and taped one to my bathroom mirror. I've now been clean since 2014, 2019. I went to meetings. I found a great sponsor and I found the will to live. As dramatic as that sounds, it's true.

I was real suicidal there a bit. You helped save my life. I just want you to know how special you are when you take the time to email your addicted fans a few words of encouragement. I'm truly, truly thankful you reached back out to me. I don't want to put the burden on your shoulder to save everybody who emails you. But fuck, man, I owe my new life to you and your amazing fucking email. They were words from beyond the abyss that it's possible to do this. Thank you so fucking much mark you know it's like who cares what you know it's like i fucking get out of my dumb head

ah you know that's the beauty of the thing man that's the beauty of the thing, man. That's the beauty of the thing. I don't want to be anybody else. I never did. Never wanted to. There have been times where I wanted everyone to understand me more, and I couldn't understand why everybody didn't just get what I was doing. But I don't really care. That's that so now thora birch i ran into her husband she you know she'd come up as a possible guest a lot in the past a few times it

just didn't work out i ran into her husband at the comedy store he was like she's a huge fan of the show we both are she really wants to come on so like i didn't know a lot about her but i was like open to it because you know i like her i dig thor birch and i wonder what her life was like i knew that she had a a difficult past in the way that i knew both her folks were involved with adult films back in the 70s i've actually you know sadly i or maybe not sadly i remember her mom from deep throat very specifically but you know so but that's you know that's her life it's not you know my life so but i thought there was an interesting story there and if she was ready to come on the show she was ready to tell it when she got here it was tense you know i just it felt a little tense and you know i did what i always do and i i kind of really stayed

open through the whole thing um but we did it, and we did okay. And there were points where I just didn't think she was emotionally comfortable to deal with some of this stuff. But this is my conversation with her, and I was happy that she's doing okay and happy to see her. She's currently on The Walking Dead, which airs Sunday nights on AMC. So this is me talking to Thora Bird. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy,

covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. you'll never leave Japan alive FX's Shogun a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney Plus 18 plus subscription required T's and C's apply did you try the coffee?

I did how is it? it's nice it doesn't have any of that like bitterness it's a perfect medium I made it? It's nice. It doesn't have any of that bitterness. It's a perfect medium. I did it? I made it?

It's a perfect medium. Good. I commend you. Yeah, I forget. I never know what's going to happen when I ask people if they want coffee, and then if they say yes, then I'm sort of like, all right, well, it's going to be a bit of a production. I have to boil water. Right.

And I have to. There's too many steps. Yeah, and then it comes out pretty good. I understand that it is a little bit of a crapshoot too, though, because every morning my husband makes the coffee. Yeah. And he never makes it consistently. What is it for?

It always comes back like not sweet enough. Oh, really? Or too sweet or like not enough coconut creamer or too much coconut creamer. He can never get a formula down. I'm almost at the point where i'm like honey i'll just go get it but that why would i do that i'm too lazy in the morning right and he makes it though yeah he'll yeah that's a routine like coffee and news oh wait a little

closer oh yeah you can move it into we have a a coffee news routine a coffee news routine yeah coffee news where do you get the news on your phone you just like walk into the phones and figure it out wait now before i ask that, what method are you using to make the coffee? We have a coffee maker. Oh, like a standard drip. Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh good. Yeah. Old school. Like a Noralco. Yeah. I forgot the name. No, like you put the filter in and then the bag. Yes. You put the brown. Slide the thing in. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Scoop in the grinds. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Like old timey. Yeah. Scoop in the grinds. Good. Like old timey. Not too fancy. No. And where are you getting your news?

All over. I mean, mainly, you know, we'll put CNN on probably just on the TV, but then we read like the news news on our phones. Just sit there and panic? Yeah. With the rest of us? Pretty much. It's like it's a really. Yeah. much it's it's it's it's like it's a really yeah yeah there's i don't know you kind of wake up with a certain amount of optimism and then you know 10 minutes later you're like oh right never mind yeah we're gonna die of a virus there's no right there's like right when there's even a smidgen of

hope it's just like you don't feel like you can believe anything anymore like were they really burning cash because that was the only method of stopping an airborne disease come on i know that yeah right what were they doing like they were burning cash in china really yeah i'm like i don't think that has anything to do with the virus wow what does that even mean they were burning i'd like to know you read that this morning not this morning like i think it was four days ago wow and i was like i no, that's a huge story. Why don't we get more into that? So is it like some sort of a mystical approach to the, to the pandemic? I don't know.

Burning money. Their excuse was, you know, well, you know, people touch money. Oh, think of all the other things that we touch.

I get it. Rid knobs, like doorknobs. Sure. Are they going to go? Everything. And how is it traveling? But cash.

They were burning cash that has nothing it's insane that must be they must have wanted to do that no I think about money all the time about dirty money

dirty money yeah really yeah but think about money how like how many times it's changed hands like any bill you have

yeah and who carries bills anymore I do I always carry money for sure but then again I kind of subscribe. I like cash, but I subscribe to the George Carlin view of things where it's like you need

a certain amount of germs to keep your immunity up. I think that's true. Absolutely. You can't avoid germs. The healthiest, cleanliest person is going to wind up with a terrible disease. No, I agree. You've got to move through germs. And if you're on a plane a lot, you get in your share of germs.

Yeah, no, that one, I don't like the recycled air on planes. I agree with you on that. It's the worst. And do you ever feel like, you know, when you get off a plane, you're sort of like, I'm covered in it. I mean, yeah. I got to shower. I think I had like a nosebleed last time I landed.

Really? Yeah, I was like, oh. Dried out? Your sinuses? Yeah, and I was hydrating during the flight and everything. I just, I don't know. Nothing? Didn't work?

Didn't work. So the necklace, is that powerful? No. Okay. Just a fan gave it to me. I liked it. It was on my bedside table. I was just curious.

I'm like, yeah, I'll just throw it on. That's a fan present. It was either the necklace or earrings, but I'm down to a single earring on all of my pairs. Like, I always just lose one earring. Yeah. So, we, like, i know you grew up here right yes the whole life my i was born at cedar sinai really yeah so you're like full california for

los angeles hollywood girl all the way born and raised stayed there for like until my my early 30s and when i moved into santa monica yeah So like, but it's kind of interesting because your career, the whole thing, like we all know you from a certain couple of things. And then you sort of wonder like, oh, wait, where's she been? What's happening? But also like, I find,

I know that your history is sort of dug into the Hollywood of the 70s. And you like grew up in that, but specifically kind of porno 70s well I was born in 82 so by the time I came around they were just leaving that yeah but but all of their you know their my parents's prior experiences wrapped up in in that kind of world I mean they were on the road a lot they did a few films and i feel like their career was built up more than what it was cinematically i'm not i mean it's just out there so i'm just i'm kind of asking because i or talking about it because i remember they were in movies that i saw when i was very young and they damaged me and i'm sorry i'm one

they they kind of uh reconfigured my brain oh Oh, God. But that's all right. But so by the time you... I'm sure they don't apologize. No, no. And I'm not mad about it. I think it helped me on some level. But I did... It was one of those things where I'm like 13 or 14

and someone had their parents' video cassette. But when did you first start to realize that they were in... Because your mom was in Deep Throat, right? And so was your dad? I believe briefly. i don't know i've never seen it but they had sort you never saw it i saw a couple of minutes here and there but you know why would you want to do that yeah it was more like i wanted to be open-minded enough to think that like oh i could handle this yeah a couple minutes into it i'm like well first of all it's not funny yeah and i'm like i was like okay you know maybe i'm, maybe I'm good.

Maybe I'm good. That's my mom. I don't need to know. No, I didn't get to her. I didn't make it to her. I was just like, yeah, I don't think I want to go this time. Weird old Harry Reams doing his business. Yeah, I was like, I got bubbles. Yeah, it's got a rough opening. Do you mind if I smoke while you're eating?

I think is the first line of that movie. Yeah, let's not. But I guess the question is, like, growing up in show business and having that element of show business in it, I mean, what do you first remember about your parents in terms of that? I was older when it finally really hit me that, like, oh, no, they had actually been at porn. Because for me, it was just the family story was, oh, she had danced. You know, she had danced. Yeah. Your mom. Yeah. She had danced you know she had danced yeah um your mom yeah she had danced

and she was on the road and then also she actually did after all that she became a bodybuilder right and she won like a number of just like but before the roided out they're just like natural female bodies and you know she'd like do deadlifts and squats and things like that and she got a really they were very very in that health kick. You know, they did the raw food diet. Are they both around? They did all that stuff. Yeah.

They're both still alive? Mm-hmm. Are they still married? Mm-hmm. Really? Yeah. Wow. Mm-hmm.

So when you're old enough to realize that the story was she was a dancer, so they'd gotten out of it and they probably did some touring of some kind? I guess. Before, yeah, they did a lot of touring. like i had a show she had a routine right in the show and she would take it all around to all the clubs like strip clubs yeah yeah yeah but then and other ones too like i know she did a lot up in san francisco with the mitchell brothers at their oh yeah at their weird showroom right they were they were all you know close for a while um because again all of that was before me.

And so I didn't grow up in that. No, I get it. In that, honestly, I think it was not until I was probably in my pre-teens, early, early teens where I gleaned from other people. It was a little more than what they're telling you. Right, not just dancing. Yeah, yeah. And so it was like, but there were only certain stories that i had heard but but nothing they really tried to you know when she was done she was done yeah she

actually kind of went more the other way with me a very like kind of a you know strict pursed almost you know um very uh nearly conservative type of upbringing. Yeah. Oh, really? A little bit. Yeah. I mean, not in a religious sense. Right, no, right, right. But just more, you know.

Do you like discipline, sort of like, you know? Well, you know. Try right and wrong. Good, yeah, manners. Don't get screwed up. Oh, absolutely. And like, you know, you're not going to have sex until you're 82 and that kind of stuff. Do you have brothers and sisters?

I have a younger brother, yes. Yeah, how's he doing? He's good. brother, yes. Yeah. How's he doing? He's good. He's good. He's good there. He's finding his way. You know, he's a great kid. He's got a great heart and he's really funny.

Yeah. How old is he? He's 28. Yeah? Yeah. And is he in show business? He's dabbled, but more like behind the camera. Yeah.

Stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. So, like, but you started acting so young. So, I mean, obviously somebody had invested in this idea. Or was that you? Well, not at four. Right.

But my babysitter actually had, you know, my parents had a no television policy other than Sesame Street and Mr. Rogers. But when the babysitter was over, that kind of went out the window. The first thing that happened was the television got turned on. And so, you know, I would watch TV and I would start mimicking commercials, like the old Tali Savalas, remember Who Loves You Baby or something like that? Yeah, yeah. Kojak. Right, right.

Well, I just kind of remember, I think I was imitating the commercials. Sure, yeah. And so she thought that was just the most adorable thing in the world, and she decided to make our pastime that, you know, she would start taking me out on, like, auditions for commercials and stuff. The babysitter. Yeah, yeah. Well, she kind of talked.

She was close friends. It was a babysitter, but also close friends with my parents. Like a nanny-ish thing. And she was like, hey, what do you think of the, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, you know, what do you think about that? And they were like, well, you know, we don't know anything about it really. You know, from like a child actor.

Right. We don't know that world. Yeah, yeah. We know a different type of show business. Yeah. And so they're like, well, I don't know. You know, it seems like harmless enough. It'll keep her away from the TV.

Great. Mm-hmm. So, but I started booking commercials like right away. Wow. So, and then that just kind of after that, then it was the first TV show that I did for NBC called Day by Day. Was it a guest part? Which is with Gary David Goldberg. That was a mini regular.

Oh, really? Yeah, it was, the concept was that this lawyer yuppie couple decided to abandon their professional careers and open a daycare in their own home. Right. So I was one of their regular students. Right. And I was like a sassy blonde kid. And did you love it? I did.

I remember my first commercial, which I think I was about four and a half, maybe just about to turn five. And my task was to sit in front of an open refrigerator with the content spilled out all around me and I had to eat a raw hot dog dipped in peanut butter, which I just thought was the most fantastic thing in the world. And I was like, this is work? Like, okay, if this is a job, this is amazing. A raw hot dog dipped in peanut butter?

I mean, well, maybe the taste didn't, you know, but just the process of, like, you know, the attention and being around a bunch of adults. You know, I always really kind of identified more with adults. I loved kids my own age, too, but I cared what the adults had to say. I wanted to have a conversation with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so just, yeah, I mean, I loved it on a very kid like childlike level, like as a kid would like it. And your parents were like, so they were on board with it, obviously. They became on board, you know, because I started booking and then it was always like, well, you know, when it came time for school, it was very important to them that I was in public school, that I had that experience.

And I kind of was like, okay, yeah, school's great. I love it. When am I going to get back to the set? Right. And so for a long time, that was kind of, yeah, let's bounce back and forth between a quote unquote normal childhood and then go have some fun on a set. Yeah. Were they doing any other types of show business? You know, like when.

Not, no. And then eventually they got involved in your career? Yeah. As, you know. As parents? As, you know, mama, dadagers, whatever. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Managing you? Yeah, for a period of time. Yeah. Not a great time? Yeah, for a period of time. Yeah. Not a great time? No, it was, you know, honestly, it just, they've been retired for a long time. Uh-huh. Yeah. And do you have a relationship with them?

I do. Yeah? I do, yeah. Oh. It's fluid. Yeah. It's fluid. Yeah.

It's good. yeah it's good so how does it like how does it unfold like to to like um you did a lot of uh episodic work first or what uh yeah episodic and then you know more commercials and then i was on that show parenthood the first iteration following the film right yeah and uh you know several of your guests came from that yeah like who else was on there? Leo was on, I believe. Oh, yeah. David Arquette. Oh, yeah.

Well, I was somebody's kid. Yeah. Yeah, I was one of the family's kids. And do you remember all those guys? I remember bits and pieces. I remember kind of like off set playing on the lot. And like, you know, I kind of remember Leo running around with a water gun and stuff like that. Just like little bits and pieces. Innocent fun. innocent fun yeah yeah and when did you like start doing the movies

nine well i i did one small independent film when i was six yeah but uh i i consider my first real film to to be paradise with don johnson and melanie griffith yeah directed by mary agnes donahue who's a really good writer as well and Yeah. And that was, I played Billy Pike, and that role got me a lot of attention from film people. Yeah. You know, so it was back in the era when the transition was not so likely or plausible, that one in the tv world would go sure sure yeah yeah films but i think because i was so young and the type of character it was it was a very kind of funny but dramatic yeah performance and so i got a lot of attention from that and then that kind of landed helped me land like patriot games and certain other roles right yeah yeah kind of it

took off from there. Did you feel like you were making your own choices or were your parents like running you? You know what I mean? No, well, because there were certain scripts and projects that I, at the time, there was maybe a mini effort to maybe see if I would be interested in doing them.

And I ultimately put my foot down like, I don't like that role I don't feel comfortable doing that kind of role right and I'm yeah maybe I should even say like interview with the vampire yeah I'm like yeah I was a kid kid in it right that's adult type of performance yeah was not something that I I was comfortable with so I like i kind of but then other times like there were just like scripts or like maybe i was like oh happy to do for one reason or another but at the same time like i probably wasn't even aware of all of the scripts that were being sent to me until around like 11 12 sure yeah so like okay so so then the American beauty thing is huge, right?

It was a huge, huge thing all around. I mean, it was like it changed everything. Changed the way people shot television, I think, in a weird way. Yeah, I still hear commercials with music that's clearly influenced from Newman's score. But, yeah, I mean, that project took up so much of my life for a two-year period. So you'd done several movies, and so you knew what you were doing. Sure. Did you study acting at all?

Every day I was on set. That was the way it worked? That was, yeah. I didn't study under, or I don't subscribe to a style or anything like that. It was just something you picked up. Yeah, I mean, I understand that. I think a lot of people do that. It's weird because I've talked to actors about it.

And, you know, the ones who learn that way, there's always a moment of sort of like, no, I did not. Didn't even need to do that. Yeah, I just pretend. I watch other people do it, and I listen, and I talk. But how did that one happen? You know, it was a very long auditioning process. Sam Mendes? Yeah, I was actually one of the first people to go in and have a meeting with him.

Lester hadn't even been cast yet. Oh,vin's part yeah uh-huh and he was just in this you know sam was just in this zone where he was like well i guess you know i'm here spielberg's my guy and i get to see everybody so let's see everybody okay uh but but for me it was such a a personal thing because i so strongly identified with jane yeah and um you know there was talk of maybe well, why don't you go in for Angela? Because it's like a flashy star-making part. Right, right.

Yeah, but I really don't like Angela at all. And I really identify a little bit more with Jade. And I just feel like I could bring something to that. Angela was played by Mina Savari. Mina Savari. What has she been doing? She's around. She just had a show, I think.

I don't know if it's still on, but she ran for a couple of years, I think. So then I go in, I have a meeting. That's awesome. With Sam or just the casting? With Sam and the producers and casting. Yeah. And then come back for a reading just with Sam, not taped, and another meeting.

And then like five months later, I was doing this TV movie up in Oregon called Night Ride Home. And they're like, we need to fly you down here for the screen test. You know, there's a couple of pairings, this and that. We want to get the combination of the three parts the right way. Yeah. So, yeah, I went in, did the test, and another month and a half later, you know, I got a call saying, yeah, you know. It was crazy that much went into putting that movie together. They knew it was going to be huge.

Yeah, it drove me nuts. Did they know it was going to be huge? Well, everybody, there was a cult-like obsession within the industry for the script itself. I still haven't seen, you know, apart from maybe something on the top of the blacklist or something, I still haven't seen a reaction to a script quite like there was for that one. Everybody and their mother wanted to go in for it or to be a part of it. It was just so beautifully written by Alan Ball. And it was something that was so unique for the time,

or at least that's how I saw it. It was a unique style. I mean, it had so many pieces of other types of film. It had like a slight noir-ish thing, but it was mainly, and it also was like so character-based. It was existential and full of symbolism

and all of that kind of stuff. And I was like, wow, you know, I'm, you know, this is the type of, like this can be, this is, movies can be like this. This is exciting, you know, it doesn't all have to be Disney or action pictures. Like, this is a real piece of art. Yeah. Also the marketing for it was, was phenomenal. You know, Terry Press had done a great job. It was like, we had a great trailer, a great poster, just every, like, so I think we, it was, it was crafted to elicit that response from an audience.

So it was very much by design, could I say, that we all knew how big it was going to be. I think, you know, at the time we always liked to say to each other, like, oh, this could be something, right? This could be really cool. And I remember thinking to myself, like, oh, come on, you know you're going to win a thousand Oscars. But nobody could, you know could sit around saying that. That was kind of the feeling like, yeah, this could be big. Yeah. And at that point, you were savvy enough to know all this stuff was going on.

I was savvy in some areas, but completely innocent in others. How old were you? I was a late bloomer. We shot that when I was 16. Yeah. And like Mendez was like, was he interesting to work with? Oh, absolutely. It was like a college professor.

So you learned things? For sure. You could pick as much as you could try to, try to pick his brain a little bit, you know, try to scratch the surface. He's kind of a quiet, quiet guy. And was he on set directing or was both i that the con the the beauty about the way conrad hall lit was that he would light the whole world yeah and so so it wasn't like you could be right up close he kind of like created a whole space in which the actors mainly had a lot of freedom or a lot of movement and so because uh, because of that, physically, he couldn't be like right up, you know, like in the water with you, so to say. But he was, you know, the second it was cut, he'd come running in.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then other times he was more, you know, wouldn't necessarily watch the monitor. So it was all depending on his mood or the situation, I suppose. I don't know why I ask you that. I think it's because I can't remember who was talking, but maybe it was Carol Kane. Just because I talked to her recently,

that there was a time where the director was, there was no video village. They were there. They were sitting there by the camera doing the business. And there was an intimacy to that, I guess. I think it's nice to have a bit of both. Yeah, for sure. Like a little bit of a balance.

But if I were to, let's say, you know, take on that role, I imagine that I would have the little monitor in my hand, but also be right there. Yeah. Have you done any directing? Minimal, but that's the goal. I've done some shorts, online shorts, like little clips. And how have they received? Well, I mean, for no budget, like Gorilla. You know, I mean, like I had one editor and no music, no nothing.

I mean, it was like bare bones stuff, just like, you know, me dipping my toe in basically. And you've done a commercial, you said? Yeah, well, I had done a campaign for these breath flash strips in the early 2000s. And part of the deal was that I would do these three commercials and one of them I could direct. Yeah. So one of them I did. And I came up with a concept and everything. And that's the goal?

And that was kind of like, yeah, it's a goal. It is a goal. I've done some producing. I've done. But I think that I've always wanted to. Ever since I was nine, wanted to you know because my idea is like well who's in charge because i want to be that guy right yeah yeah for sure so um it's always been it's always been the goal but i i at the same time i it's not as burning as it as it as it once was but i think that that actually might

propel me to achieve it even more. Because I'm not so desperate for it. It's more of a, well, if this can happen, that would be great. Yeah, if you can work towards it. So, like, after American Beauty, do things get pretty crazy for you? Oh, yeah, for sure. Crazy in the sense that, you know, there was a it was a whole new level. Like I felt before that I had been maybe industry known, you know, as a as a as a kid actor, bordering on child star or whatever.

Right. Right. And then after that, it was more like, oh, no, you're you just stepped into a different club. Right. And, you know, you're touring Europe with the film and promoting it and all of that. Did you go to the big festivals? So we did Toronto. We didn't really need festivals, but we went around. Sure, to promote it.

Yeah, to promote it. We had the premieres in London, Spain, Italy, France, all that, Germany. Kevin and the three of us did a lot of it. Was Kevin all right? Kevin went on a tour in the States, too, like the colleges and universities. Was he all right to work with? As an actor, he's wonderful to work with.

And I only really interacted with him on set and at premieres and events and stuff. So we didn't, like, in the rehearsal period, we had a little time to bond and get to know each other. Right. But there were always you know kevin's a really intelligent person and he even was a private person uh yeah and look i was a 16 year old girl i know there's just not much of an interest there for me yeah no i mean i'm not looking for anything but also i think the nature of our on-screen relationship too was more it it kind of lent itself to a natural thing on set where we

were like we were close but there was like a slight contentiousness there just but i think it was a bleeding over from the nature of the character yeah it's like that thing we were talking about earlier in the kitchen where you know if you have you know younger parents that the bond is sort of weird right like i i guess I guess his trip was sort of a midwife trip, but it was still him trying to get something back of his youth. Yeah, he was, yeah. And not understanding, you know, proper grown-up boundaries or, you know. I think he just, like, he only, like, I think, you know,

a lot of parents get kind of they their kids reach a certain age and the parent just can't help but not understand them in a new way it's more like well what happened to that wonderful eight-year-old that i you know yeah and and it and it can it can stay weird but yeah and then he's going in this like well what happened to my life you know he's taking it a little bit on a selfish yeah from jane's point of view it's a very selfish outlook that he's taking and like did you find that with your folks were they young when they had you no they weren't no oh wow so so you didn't grow up with younger parents no no they were they were parents um but they were but they were friends too because they didn't talk to me like aga gugu right yeah they were here yeah, yeah, yeah. They were here, yeah, read this book.

Do you think that like... Tell us what you think about it. Be engaged. Be, you know, and, you know, educate yourself. Is your sense of them that that whatever went on in the 70s was some sort of like they were contracting after that? Like that after that, whatever

they'd gone through in the 60s and 70s, they're like, alright, we did that. Let's bring the kid up right. I believe that, yeah they'd gone through in the 60s and 70s, they're like, all right, we did that. Let's bring the kid up right. I believe. Yeah. I mean, that's mainly. Yeah. I mean, definitely.

I think that was the there was they had been through so much and so much that there was a level of horror that I by the idea that I might have to go through. Sure. You know, that was what they had done was not for me. Yeah. by the idea that I might have to go through some of that, you know, that was what they had done was not for me. Yeah. And I, you know, I think that that happens to a lot of that generation, you know, given that, you know, not have all of them do what your parents did, but that, that sort of like following that, that sixties trip of like,

you know, just kind of do it, man, you know, do whatever, you know, and all that liberation. That was not the, I mean, maybe if they had been younger when I, when I came along or I had come, Oh, I don't know, earlier period, like say I was born in like 78 or 77 or something like that, it might have been different. Yeah. In some way, I got the more standard, normal. Right.

They had come to their senses. Yeah. After the insanity. Right. Well, a little bit. All right. So. They always have like a, you know, a radical outlook on things.

They do? But, I mean, but in a radical outlook on things. They do? But in a thoughtful way. Yeah. They can be reined in. Yeah? Like what? Like what's radical? Well, I mean, I think, like I said, they were incredible health nuts- Oh, right.

Okay. For a long, long time. With a lot of supplements? Well, bee pollen, spirulina, and stuff like that. And then, but then 10 years later, they're like, oh, we're going for Chinese. You know, so they kind of, they go all over. Phases. Phases.

So during the American beauty period, are they, is your dad managing you? Yes, he was still. Yeah, but I had, you know, I had a- Big agents and whatnot? Yeah, I had teams. I've been with a lot of different agents over a long period of time. Yeah, but he was. But he was never on set.

Yeah. He was, you know, he was working out at home. Yeah. And real estate. He was doing some real estate. Oh, he was a real estate guy? Dabbled, yeah. A lot of hustles?

I don't know. Yeah. I was busy, you know i i didn't so what happens right after american beauty uh well you know it was kind of like sit back and and uh read scripts just go on the roller coaster for a little while there and you know honestly there wasn't as as many scripts as i had expected uh to be flooding sorry flooding through yeah uh and i and i i still to this day don't know that if that was because there simply weren't that many roles yeah uh uh to follow a performance like that up with yeah uh at that time and that's why when i shortly after

the film came not that shortly after the film came out, not that shortly after the film came out, maybe about four or five months after the film came out, I got the script for Ghost World. Oh, yeah. And it was sent to me with the graphic novel as well. Oh, yes. So I read the script first, then I read the graphic novel. Oh, yeah.

I was completely blown away, and I'm like, this is my part, this is my part, this is my part. And nobody wanted me to play that part. The director didn't want me to play it. The writer didn't. They wanted somebody else. Really? They thought of me as a Rebecca.

Uh-huh. And for me, that particular character did nothing for me. Uh-huh. And Enid was somebody that I felt that I could kind of maybe in some way hide behind and at least be able to portray her personality without having her personality in my own life. But unfortunately, through playing her, she stuck with me for a while. Yeah. So I kind of her outlook became my outlook for potentially a little too long. Really?

It was just kind of, yeah, disenchanted, like kind of. No kidding. Just kind of lost and confused in a way. And I, you know, I think part of that is, you know, internal stuff. But at the same time, I think it's a reaction to just like, you know, the being a young woman in that era, if you're pursuing a high-profile career, there only seems to be a couple of formulas to adapt to in order to reach,

let's say, that level. Yeah. And what it took, those formulas were not so attractive to me. Right. You got cynical. I got, yeah, a little, a little.

So, cause you did a few. And I just also, I felt like maybe it was unfair that so many of my opinions had to be like corrected or adjusted or something. And so that was, I can be stubborn from time to time. Right, so the implication was you didn't know better

and that other people knew better. I think it's more of like a calm down. It's all okay, just do this and everything will be fine. So that was the way they framed it. Well, it's like, it's not. Like in your best interest. But it's a proverbial, it's like it was everybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Everyone's just like, oh, don't, you know, that's just more of a shoo-shoo-poo-poo. Right, but there was still those formulas that they were trying to put in. Those were the ones. And any trying to forge a new formula was something that needed to be corrected, not embraced. Not embraced, right. What were the old formulas in your mind? I just, you know. hot tall skinny you know jessica alba type of thing like there's anything wrong with that that's i'm not i'm not critiquing it it's just i'm like wait okay but maybe you know

i'm not gonna grow a foot taller and stay the same weight so what can i do but it looks like though you did a couple of movies in between American Beauty and Ghost World that were, it seemed like kind of trying different things out, right? Yeah, actually, right after American Beauty, Ghost World was my next film that I shot. That was it? And then after that, but it took a while to come out. Oh, is that how it worked? It took a while to come out. Yeah.

And then after Ghost World, I was more experimental and I was trying things. And I was more like, oh, I don't care about the budget or who's like, all the things where they say like, oh, you only want to work with certain people and blah, blah, blah. So I didn't care about any of that. I was like, I was just going by the material. Yeah. So the sensibility of Ghost World. I mean, because that is a pretty, you know, that I mean, it was an experimental movie, really, I think. You know, I read I've read Klaus for a long time, you know, and I've interviewed that guy.

And Zweigoff is like he's kind of a pain in the ass but he's alright he cracks me up I cannot get through a conversation without having a stomach ache for the next day he's an odd interesting guy

self-deprecating person I've ever met but there's something about the nature of Klaus and about those characters that really they changed your point of view, huh? For sure. I think they highlighted a point of view that I maybe already had. Yeah. But they put a spotlight on it. And also.

And it allowed me to fully expand on it. Right, right. In retrospect, do you think that was destructive? No. I had a blast. I loved making that film.. Right, right. In retrospect, do you think that was destructive? No. I had a blast. I loved making that film. I mean, maybe... By just being cynical.

Following, you know, afterwards, maybe being turned into like, you know, having the personality not so dissimilar to Terry's himself was maybe not ideal for an 18-year-old girl and I might have lost some friendships and, you know,

stopped some guys from approaching me. But... maybe that's a good thing it's a good thing yeah and what and did you were you in scarlet friends ever very tight yeah very tight yeah yeah well i mean we you know it was we were working like this you know i mean she i was just graduating high school and she's she was still in school so we our time together wasn't as much as it maybe could have been she was still in high school and she's she was still in school so we our time together wasn't as much as it maybe could have been she was still in high school exactly the same age i think she was 15 no kidding 15 wow i didn't realize that but she i was that her first movie no no no she had

been in something like manny and low and some others um yeah but it was her first i think you know big chunky bordering on adult role yeah yeah yeah well that it's it's so weird there's people that I I must I I mean I know it from my own life like because when I look at the the cast of some of the movies you've been in some people like you know had hard lives and some people aren't with us anymore it's heavy man yeah I didn't realize that Renfro was in Ghostwater. I'm trying to remember who he was in that. He was Josh. He was kind of a side crush of Enid's. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But his character was not that, you know, wasn't featured that much, but it was essential to the story. Yeah, and Wes, too, has had trouble, right? Yeah. Much, but it was essential to the story. Yeah. And Wes, too, has had trouble, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, when I worked with Wes, that hadn't.

I mean, maybe there might have been beginnings of it. Right. But that hadn't. Right, yeah. It hadn't became what it did. But when I was working with Renfro, it was already at a shocking place. I found where he was at just in his life to be kind of shocking. Yeah. It was the first time you'd seen that?

It was that bad. It was the first time I had seen it that bad. Right. I mean, I had heard things about other people. Right. You know, when I was a kid, I could always tell the difference between the kids who wanted to be there and the kids who didn't. Yeah. And that was always like, oof, God, that sucks, you know.

Ah, yeah. But for him, it was more like, god that sucks you know oh yeah but for him it was more like it was kind of a cautionary i was like wow and also i was shocked that anybody had let had let it gotten to that point right i mean his his handler right that this i don't know the state or yeah insurance or something that had had him with was uh his was his provider yeah you know oh really yeah it's so weird how those people find people they did that it's a whole shadow business you know to people that have those kind of um problems there's just these people that service them well he was incredibly vulnerable too just because he had no support system support network and yeah and he had come from a very

disastrous oh really starting place i didn't know that yeah did you guys remain friends after that until you you know uh you know honestly not not that much yeah i we we didn't his situation scared me i really thought he was a really sweet yeah. Yeah. But there was something about his energy that I didn't want to engage too much. Yeah. So you were able to avoid that? A little bit. A little bit. I mean, drugs and whatnot.

Oh, well, yeah. I mean, I didn't, I never went off the deep end with anything. That's good. That's not, there was always certain journeys in life that I knew I just really didn't want to take. That's good that you didn't. And so, I mean, I haven't been a perfect angel. Yeah.

But none of the hard stuff. Right. Ever. Well, you didn't lose control. Right. Which is nice. Yeah. Good for you.

Thanks. So now after Ghost World, I mean, it seems like you work a lot. Mm-hmm. And are you happy? You know, I am because I had taken, you know, like you said, people can ask, you know. What happened to her? Right. And that's fair.

But, you know, a lot of the stuff that I did didn't reach the audience size of other things. And I did them for different reasons. Right. And then at a certain point in my life, it became, for me, I felt like the best thing that I could do just to keep growing and evolving as a person and, you know, try to hold on to some sanity. Yeah. Was to get my education, you know. After graduating high school, my career was in such a place that college wasn't even right you're working i was like yeah and but you know i really wanted to to educate myself so i i got my pre-law degree yeah and it's a four-year program and i did it

about three where uh uh caplan which is a it's like the Phoenix. Oh, yeah. It's like the second, it's the better Phoenix. Okay, yeah. So online? It's online, but it's, you know, online gets a little bit of a bad rap, but I've spoken to teachers who have said it's actually harder than some of the- And also, like, it's- And it kept me away from the culture. Also, I was older, so I didn't want to go-

From the Hollywood culture? No, no, no cult the college party culture you know i i didn't i feel like when you're that age you go to college for something other than no i think people who really want it they really want it like you want to learn yeah and i went for for that yeah so and it was i i really enjoyed it it was it was rigorous but i i very much enjoyed it. But it just brought me back to realizing that I, whereas maybe I was open-minded to a major life shift and taking on a new career, a new direction, that I actually didn't ultimately want that

and I still wanted to be part of the storytelling process because I believe that, I don't know, call me whatever, but I believe that film and TV is consumed by largely formative minds. And so I think that there's a power in that. Of course. And with that comes a responsibility to shape those minds

in as open a way as possible. That brought me back to, I thought, oh, okay, well, maybe I'll write. So I wrote a play. Oh, yeah? In a month, I wrote a screenplay in a year and a half. After you decided the pre-law?

After I finished my pre-law, there was like, oh, okay, we'll either go in for your JD and, you know, start working on studying for the bar and all that. Right, yeah. Or skip it. What's the play about? A first date. Yeah, what's it called? It's a first date on pause. Okay.

First date on pause. Okay. It's a first date, but it's got flashbacks of previous relationships, and those previous relationships all explain why this first date is going so horrifically awkwardly. Oh, interesting. Now, did you put it up? I came close, but I got distracted with other things. Did you do a reading of it or anything?

No. I mean, I had a producing partner, but then something, a producing partner and we were, but then something happened with a theater that we were going to do it at. And, and, and then I just, you know, after that, then it was become like, well, you know, I'd also really still like to act as well. So it was more of a hunt for representation and stuff like that. Oh, oh, in turn. Oh, so you needed to get rerepresented.

Well, maybe. Yeah, I did. Oh, yeah. presented well maybe yeah i did oh i did yeah so you the the the uh the going to school and the writing the play got you out of the game a bit so you had to go back get it get some i was still being approached yeah but but i just was you know i know this is what i'm doing now and then it actually kind of needed to come from me right to decide to try the acting stuff again. Do you find that, like, are you writing for young adults? Well, I mean, I feel like when I was an audience member at 15, 16,

I was always looking for what the 25-year-olds were watching. Sure. And so I want to talk to those kids. Yeah, yeah. I don't even understand kids. I don't have them. I don't understand them either. I don't know where they're at. No, but I feel like it's our duty to talk to those kids. Yeah, yeah. I don't even understand kids. I don't have them. I don't understand them either. I don't know where they're at.

No, but I feel like it's our duty to talk to them anyway. Of course. Sometimes they find me, you know, some college kids, but still like I don't. Oh, I'm sure you're bigger than you think you are with college kids. I don't know. I go perform at places in college towns. The ones that know me and like me are definitely kind of special, sensitive, tormented, a little brighter than the rest. I don't know.

It's not the across-the-board college appeal. Maybe those are our people. No, they're fine with me. It's okay with me. So once you get back into the game, are you frustrated now or you feel okay? Not so much because I don't have a lot of the... I feel like disenchantment and disappointment or frustration comes parallel to the level of expectation that one has. And so my expectation level might have been one

thing a while ago right now it's it's a little different and so i don't feel the anxiety that's coming with or am i achieving my goals quick enough and i don't do the comparison you know are you good just basing my happiness on like oh so-and-so is doing so much better and blah blah i don't i never was like that. Never? Not really. I mean, briefly. I wish I wasn't. Briefly, when I was in my early, early 20s. Right.

And every actor has their one. Of course. They're like, you're a dead person, you know. I might have had a couple of those. But I just don't have time for that anymore. I've still got mine and I'm doing fine. Right. It's fucked up, man.

Right? I mean, it's like, how do you get to a point of self-acceptance? It's a little, I don't think you have to have self-acceptance in order to, like, just let the other part of it go.

And it's, you know, some people will say, well, in order to succeed, you have to be competitive. You know, you hear this in sports all the time. It's all about the competition. But I don't see it that way.

But with sports, you know, it's sort of like I run faster than you. You have to win a game. Exactly. Right. There's a million different, you know, problems. Right. In being competitive in this business. What does that even mean?

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. It's fucking nuts. But like, I still get jealous, even though like I know in my mind that I don't want what they have. I probably couldn't do what they do all that shit you know but but in order to sort of assess that and not use those as weapons

against myself right well why can't I do it yeah yeah it's true it's complicated it's complicated and it's a constant struggle because I even to this day I'll have days where like well what do you what what the fuck does anyone want from like what do you want me to do yeah well i gotta stand on stage naked for an hour and a half what do you want when does that conversation happen no i just it's like it's an example of like what does it take to be you know like because you hear so much and everybody hears this oh we love her we love her we love her but then it's like oh it's not this and it's not that and that's not even that's every single actor out there has you know like oh excellent amazing not right for this yeah right exactly so yeah that i can't that's why i never did the acting thing that's i never pursued it because i couldn't handle that shit right the amount of

rejection you guys take yeah i can't i can't well and then of course in our mind is it's like you're right but remember when i described myself as an actor yeah like it means i can give me a note give me an adjustment i'll make it right exactly you know you don't get the amount of adjustment notes what would be what would make you happy like in terms of like not i'm not happy happy but like what kind of part what are you looking for as an actor at this point? I've always kind of, even when I was, you know, doing different things, I always wanted to, I always saw myself as like, that I couldn't wait to get to like the older Betty Davis era, you know, the Francis McDormand. I always was like, I'm looking forward to that or something. Yeah. So I didn't exactly know what I want.

I just knew that a lot of what I was reading wasn't really clicking with me. Right. But you did this, you were in that movie with the last black man in San Francisco? Yes. And how was that? I loved it.

I loved that script. It's a beautiful poem to the city, which is my favorite city in California. It is like a poem. It is. Yeah, poetry. The whole thing is. That's the only way I could take take it and when i started to watch the groove of it and i'm like all right this is what this is right and the score is phenomenal and and joe's joe's eye and

some of his shots and and and concepts were just amazing and so i was just happy to be a part of that you know i'm also on like right now i'm on season 10 of The Walking Dead and I just finished shooting a film in Oklahoma called 13 Minutes. Oklahoma? I mean, there's like Oklahoma City,

yeah. How was that? It was, they're starting to do a lot more there. Did you hang out with Wayne Coyne? I don't,

you know, I don't. From the Flaming Lips? Did you go over there? Oh, the drummer from the Flaming Lips was the boyfriend

of our hair, our key hair. And he actually helped out with wardrobe, oddly enough, on set. Wayne, the lead singer of the Flaming Lips, he's got a whole little world over there. They have a little alley street named after them. I walk by it all the time. There's a place with a giant, it's a lot of weirdness a lot of uh yeah king's mouth it's a he's got some giant mouth you can go in and there's a womb uh room and like he's got a whole yeah it's definitely trippy so you didn't oh you didn't hang out there i i didn't make it that i was i was in and out

you know on that one it was a very much ensemble piece it's about uh before during and after a tornado hits oh in a very small town. And it's like these intersecting lives type of thing. It's, you know, it's a nice, clean... Fun? Fun, yeah. And what is it like being in the never-ending Walking Dead?

I only started season 10. Yeah. It's amazing. It was such an adjustment for me to A, be back on a TV show. I haven't even watched it. Were you zombie fighting? I did a little bit. I did a little bit of that.

Yeah. One thing that's nice about it coming on so late is that it runs like a machine. Right, right, right. So they know exactly what they're doing. But it's a very scattered, difficult, laborious, intense, filthy, disgusting, humidity-addled machine. Where does it shoot? South of Atlanta, Georgia. Right.

In the summer, no less. Hot. Just a teensy. Yeah. And you were staying in Atlanta? No. No, too far to commute because the hours of the days are so long. They're typically 14 hour days. So you wind up staying in this little town called either Sonoya, I don't know

if you say it's Sonoya or Sonoya. It's spelled Sonoya, but I hear people say Sonoya. So anyway, you either stay there, which is like 10 minutes from the set, which is like 300 acres or Peachtree City, which is where I was. Right. Just under a half hour drive from set. Yeah, I was there for a couple weeks doing a thing. It's okay. It's an okay city, but I guess you weren't really in it. You know, I like Atlanta in the winter, like the fall, winter, spring. When it's not disgusting and sticky and hot.

And so what else do you have coming up? Like I said, 13 minutes. And I did just option a script that I have in front of some people's eyes that I would be directing not in. Yeah. And, you know, it's pilot season, so anything can happen. So you go out to pilots? You go out for the pilot season? Not, which, certain ones. Isn't pilot season, like, ongoing now?

Right, but it's, like, the original pilot season now. But the streaming pilot season like ongoing now? Right. But it's like the original pilot season now. But the streaming pilot season is yearly. Oh, so this is. But like it's just like the big fives. Right. So this is really. Or in cable. So you've been going out on auditions?

Here and there. Absolutely. I mean, it's in between of like you're either meeting or audition, depending on the project. Would you do like a big three camera thing? I would i would i'm not against it like you know the three camera thing never goes away they even like i think they did like the ranch and i'm like wow the multicam on streaming what it went for a while i talked to ashton about that yeah well it's sort of interesting the way they did that you know like i never I never, like he, because it ran, I think, longer than anyone expected.

And people liked it. Yeah. Obviously. Yeah, it was really, it was very popular. I think they just did the last season. But it's weird. But it was that, that was a new thing because it was, if I had, not that I watched too much of the show, but Sam Elliott. Yeah.

Sam Elliott is also my manager. So, you know, he's a fellow client, was a fellow client. It's with your management. It was. Yeah. And so I heard about the show and all of that. And from what I understand, it was multicam and it was a comedy, but it also had genuinely dramatic elements as well.

Well, that's the thing that was interesting, that they balanced this thing, because it did have the joke-to-joke business. Right. But then they dealt with, you know, heavier things. And Ashton said, you know knew they got into a system of shooting that because they knew that you could you you you couldn't do that in in in the flow of the show with an audience i think i heard that episode that's right i was saying like they would shoot

some in front of the audience yeah and then serious stuff and then go back and forth it was smart the different levels i was really like i mean it explained to me how that something like that would work out. Yeah, because I don't think I'd seen it work like that before. You know, that you get that weird kind of laugh tracky thing. Right. But instead of relying on the audience just to make the shift, they were able to isolate the things they knew they couldn't or they solution to the problem I always had as an audience member with the, you know, filmed in front of a live audience thing, which was for the dramatic moments. They never seem to go in for a close up at all.

I'm like, well, how are you supposed to know how dramatic this really is? Right. If the camera is still way back here. Yeah. The audience is still going to laugh in five seconds. Like that's not going to work for me. Like I'm not buying the drama. This is just coming off as really bad. Right.

So it sounds like maybe he found the happy medium with all of that. I mean, I watched a couple episodes and it seemed to work, you know? Sure. So what, uh, what's this,

um, in terms of directing, um, what has to happen for that, for your project option? What do you got? Stars have to realign. Do you have to get, you want to act in it too or no? Not this one.

Not the one that I just opted for. So you're trying to connect people to it? You're trying to get people into it? Yeah, you shop it around. You take on the duties of a producer and you got to get the money, honey. Yeah, exactly. And what do you do for fun? I watch a lot.

I read a lot. I mean, not, I read a lot online. I'd like to stop and go back to my book reading stuff. But I do, I like any historical biographies. I bike ride. We ski. You do? I just try to keep this physical, you know, walk. I like any historical biographies. I bike ride. We ski. You do? I just try to keep this physical, you know, walk. I like to ski. I haven't skied in a long time.

And then, you know, I maybe play a couple of stupid games on my phone. Yeah, sure. But, I mean, that's more like when you're on set and, you know, there's kind of like in between and stuff like that. Yeah, I wish I did more game playing on the phone. I just seem to get lost in it, you know, with the news and everything else. I do too, but I feel like if you're on the news, they try to steer you, or at least my phone tries to steer me to like celebrity gossip or something. Oh yeah, sure. Or like, you know, oh, what's wrong with their toe? Or, you know, I mean,

and I just, I don't, I don't like any of that. Yeah, no, I get sucked right into the darkness of it. Right, right, right, right. I like hopping around and trying to find different news sources, like AFP or, you know. Or then I'll go, I find myself going into groups and finding online activism and all that. Yeah, yeah. Sign every petition in the world. Good. Maybe that'll help.

Absolutely nothing. Who knows? Well, where do you ski at? Just because it's local. Mainly Big Bear. Big Bear, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, Mammoth is great too, but just a little further away. You've been skiing your whole life?

No, I only started when I was, I started learning when I was 34. Oh, really? Yeah. You like it though? So it's been like three, four years. I love it. I love it. whole life no i only started when i was i thought i started learning when i was 34 oh really yeah you like it so it's been like four three four years i love it i love it i'm still developing my legs but i really love it but you went with skis not snowboard no i know only because uh i feel like yes he does he's he's actually the one who taught me right and i feel like uh you know these borders they get yeah yeah yeah. Mmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Scotty little shit.

It's hard to pick that shit up, too. It's a little harder. When you get older. Yeah. It's a whole different groove. Right. Yeah. How long have you been married?

A year and two months and a couple days. And how long have you known before? Oh, we've been together just under five years. How's it going? Great. Love it. And a total shock to me. Oh, yeah?

Yeah. I was not a, I was a never marry, never kid kind of person, you know? And then I just changed with this one, so. Good. Yeah. As long as you're happy. Yeah, for sure. Good talking to you, Thora.

Thank you. That's it. Thank you. and my fucking 53 Fender deluxe amp me wrestling with these old fucking men at my own age Thank you. Boomer lives! and I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

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