WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1105 - Don Gavin

Episode Date: March 12, 2020

Don Gavin has Boston in his bones, so much so that he’s still cold even after moving to Florida. Marc reminisces with Don about their stand-up days in New England, where Don’s kindness and encouragement of younger comics helped earn him the moniker The Godfather of Boston Comedy. But it didn’t start in Boston for Don. He drove cross-country to become a comedian. Don tells Marc about that journey as well as the timely story of what it was like doing comedy on a cruise ship and falling ill. Don also explains why his 2011 comedy album Live with a Manhattan never got a proper release and is finally getting out into the world. This episode is sponsored by Lights Out with David Spade on Comedy Central, Nationwide Pet Insurance, and The Last Degree of Kevin Bacon on Spotify. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking nears? What the fuckadelics? What's happening? How's it going? It's Mark Maron.

It's me. Who'd you call? You called me. It's Mark. You called me. No, you called me. What's happening? Are you in quarantine?

This is a special show for those people who have been quarantined um i hope you have enough water enough canned foods enough fresh foods it's going to be okay uh i don't know how it works to quarantine is it self-quarantine i there i know some people are on lockdown but i hope this is an entertaining show for you. You know what you could do while you're under quarantine is my new Netflix special, End Times Fun, is now streaming. And people are fucking loving it. They're loving it. I went out of my way to do some other podcasts.

Not too many podcasts, but I did Bert Kreischer's podcast. I did Brian Cowan and Brendan Schaub's podcast. I wanted to get the word out to the bros that they should come, that maybe we can bridge a gap. I don't know that my mother loves it, but she took a little hit. She took a little hit. You know, what are you going to do? It happens. It's tough being the mother or the lover or the friend of a comic.

Sometimes you're going to get a little, you're going to take a little hit. But a lot of people and a lot of things took hits in this special. And I don't want to say it was prescient, but it is relative to what we're going through. And I do hope you're holding up. I hope you're okay. Those of you who are handling the virus, I hope you're all right. I mean, I don't know anybody with it. I've read about what it's like or what it could be like. And I guess the real issue is the numbers. Most people are going to live through it, but the people that don't, that number gets bigger the more people that get it. And when it's this big of a spread and this quick of a spread, the pandemic model, if it does go as

bad as it could go, even if it's two to three percent mortality rate. If the if the number of people that have it is 50 million, that's a big number. And we want to try to avoid that. Obviously, we want to try to avoid it altogether. But it does seem that many people will get this in one form or the other. I hope you're taking care of yourself. I hope you're doing the best you can. And I hope you enjoy my special because it is the time to do that.

These are the end times. And my special is called End Times Fun. It's very specific. It is entertainment for the times that we are living in. Though the prophecy or the speculation in the special was a burning burning sky not a bad bad company album actually a pretty fucking good bad company album i think um i think that might be

their last one it might be the last bad company album if i'm not mistaken. The sky is burning. I believe my soul's on fire. There you go. So not the virus, but the burning sky, but nonetheless, the sentiment is there. So enjoy the special. is there so enjoy the special i i made it for you to enjoy uh what else can i tell you about what's happening i went to uh last night what a fucking night man i'll tell you uh we did the bon scott tribute at the avalon uh here in or over in hollywood and it's like a few comics. It was me and Dean and Burr doing about 15 to 20 each. And then Dean, we do ACDC music. We, the last one we did was a couple of years ago.

We did the entire Power Ridge album. And this one Dean put together from a live set of, uh, you know, Bon Scott era, ACDC. And it was a fucking, it it was amazing look you know i get nervous with this stuff but there are a lot of dino fans a lot of acdc fans a few of my fans maybe our collective fans but they were definitely there to rock and the band was amazing and the people that played were amazing but this guy phil olivieri

who uh whose company solo dallas he makes pedals but he also brought all the marshals he brought all the equipment that acdc plays through and he makes these pedals that make you sound more like acdc certain type of boost i don't understand that shit but he plugged me into one he gave me one last year but he's great you know he he was uh very excited he loves acdc so the lineup the basic band lineup was um steve gorman on drums from the black crows and uh and it was uh j Josh Z on guitar and Billy Rowe on the other guitar and Mike Inez on bass. Mike Inez from, I guess he played with Alice in Chains, Ozzy. And Josh has played with a lot of people. He used to play with Dean, had a band called Mother Trucker. It was just so solid, folks.

It was so solid. They did four tunes, just that lineup, the backbone of the band. And it was almost like, why are we even going to go out there? They were in such a fucking groove. And man, like the musicians that played on some of this stuff, it was crazy. It was crazy. Dave Lombardo, the drummer, played. Laird Lalonde, I think is how you pronounce his name, from Primus. And Mr. Bungle, I think, played. But Dave Lombardo, holy fuck, what a monster drummer. Steve Gorman's a monster drummer. And then fucking Brad Wilk from Rage Against the Machine, who goes out with Juliette Lewis, who also sang.

She came and sang dirty deeds done dirt cheap he drummed scott holiday from the rival sons played some guitar i mean it was fucking nuts it was fucking nuts i played on the jack and on high voltage and we all played on night prowler at the end oh fucking bill burr billy burr played drums bill burr played drums on the jack i played with bill there's a little bit of footage out there i put some on my instagram of a solo i did and i get so nervous and i'm practicing and i'm running my doing my scales running my fingers and i get nervous playing with people because it's just it's not so much i can't play it's just i'm not used to playing with people, staying in a pocket,

not getting ahead of the drum or off or what, just laying back a little. And I was nervous, but I think I landed a couple. And it was really, can I say it? Can I say it in this time of plague? Can I say it in these end times? I had a fucking blast man i had a blast what a fucking riot man just to just to jam makes me want to jam more but i don't know i don't know if i could last a whole night of just me jamming with people did i mention don gavin is on the show. Don Gavin is on the show. Don Gavin is an old school Boston comic.

He's got his live album, Live with a Manhattan, has been re-released. It never got the proper release when it was recorded in 2011, but you can now get it on more than a hundred streaming platforms. So go check that out. Don was like one of the dudes when I was coming up in Boston. He was like dug in. He was a legend. He was a defining force of Boston comedy at that time in the 80s.

And it was intense to talk to him. Because I remember kind of being a a toddler a comedy toddler you know sitting at uh you know listening to don so i definitely need to call my mother yeah gotta do that so i went to physical therapy now entering the physical therapy part of my life turns out and i fucking knew this my posture is garbage i don't think that has anything to do with uh you know how i hurt myself but my posture is garbage and you know to be honest with you i will tell you why it's garbage. Speaking of my mother, I'll tell you why.

And I know it because I still do it. If you ever watch me sit on a show, even on my special to a certain degree, I need to be splayed out. I'm low in the chair. I'm hunched over. And do you really want to know why I walk with a hunch? It's because I was sucking my stomach in. When I have good posture, I feel like my stomach is sticking out. And that's a no-no in the Marin household. You don't want any tummy showing.

So I fucked my posture up to sort of stay tight, hide my stomach, hide my shame. I have the posture of a body shamed person. I'm just hunched over like guarding myself. Don't look at that. Don't look at my body. Don't look at my stomach. That's where it comes from. That's the habit.

And the physical therapist said, you know, because you've got your head so forward, you know, these muscles in your neck and shoulders are basically, you know, carrying around a bowling ball, which I thought was a little rude. I do not think. For one, my head weighs as much as a bowling ball, though I don't know. But it was not flattering. But I get the idea. It's about weight.

So all these muscles that aren't used to carrying the weight in that way are doing it, and so when you need them to sort of buttress whatever damage I did to my spine, they're not really even situated properly. I had no idea. So I'm going to start doing that, and I'm going to start walking properly. Mark my words, people.

My posture will be impeccable. I'll probably have to get new shirts, new suits. Everything I own has been fitted for a slouching, slumping person. For a hunched man who can't even sit properly because he's uncomfortable. This is it, man. This is my time. It's my time to change my posture. Do you hear me?

Mark my words. It is. Don Gavin, as I said, is a Boston comedian that was there. don gavin as i said is a boston comedian that was there he was like one of the big dogs when i was coming up in the late 80s i opened for him and a couple times here and there johnny yees i remember playing that dumb dollar poker game with him drinking hey guy can drink man still does still does it and uh but really one of the funniest guys working his own trip man his own style had a lot of influence on people you don't even know you know and a lot of influence on some people you do know but uh but yeah man it was just But yeah, man, he has an incredible pace and timing.

And he's just the real deal. And I was thrilled that he wanted to come on, that he asked to come on, and that I could have this here for him. So this is me talking to Don Gavin. for him. So this is me talking to Don Gavin. He's here promoting the re-release of his album, Live With

a Manhattan, which never got a proper release a while back in 2011, and now you can get it on more than a hundred streaming platforms, so go check that out. This is me talking to the master, Don Gavin. It's hockey season, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, Talking to the master, Don Gap. But chicken tenders, yes, because those are groceries, and we deliver those too, along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials.

Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton.

The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. I worked a weekend with you and Johnny Yees. Right, right, right. That was the only Cape Cod club that we actually made money, I think. Yeah, but remember there was the Polynesian show? Yeah. Yeah, and then they'd move it. Yeah.

They had the stage that would move back into the bandstand. And we stayed in a hotel that was like four inches away. Yeah, right there. And then there was that big fat guy, Wayne. Was that his name? Remember the guy who ran the Polynesian show and then kind of ran the place, a heavyset guy with long hair? Yeah.

Yeah, and I remember staying at that hotel. For some reason, I feel like it was me, you, and Joe Iannetti. Okay. And we just stayed up all night and played the poker with the dollar bills. Oh, liar's poker. And I was terrible at it, but I was excited to have been there. That place went on for a number of years. It did?

Yeah. But I mean, where do you live now? I just moved to Florida. Oh, I thought you were like, for some reason, I. It did? Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, where do you live now? I just moved to Florida. Oh, I thought you were like, for some reason, I thought you were in Portland, Oregon. No, I've always been in Boston. Not sure, in the Hunts for 25 years. Really? Really.

I mean, when I said just moved, I mean a week and a half ago. What part of Florida? Boynton Beach, which is near West Palm. Is that for work reasons or retirement reasons? Not retirement. I didn't save any money, so retirement's not in the fucking picture. No stopping. No.

And I don't want to retire anyway. I'm working more than I... I'm always working. Yeah, yeah. And I like it. No, more for the weather. The fucking weather finally got to me. Oh, really?

It's done? It's done? It's time? I mean, it's in my bones. I'm still cold from being in Boston three weeks ago. You're still cold now? Yeah. It's in me. So where I live now, yeah, that's what I want.

And also I do a lot of cruise ships, and most of the cruise ships go out of there. So that makes it practical. Sure. Now, like the cruise ships, like that's a big business. And I've only talked to like one other person who does ships really. We'll talk about that if you want a little bit. I talked to Vanessa Hollingshead. I know the name.

Yeah. I mean, she like does somehow has a whole career on boats. I do about 20 a week. 20 years. Excuse me. 20 years. 20 weeks. So 20 weeks.

Yeah. So that's like the bulk of the business. Yeah. Yeah. And now with the boats, like how does it work i mean like i might i'm obviously i i don't think i'm the right guy for a boat right most people are not but they do but now it used to be the fear was like back in the day the idea was the boat you had to be clean right but now they have both right well now that yeah they have uh the well depending on what your situation i'm

usually in a headline room where i just do my show right but then you can have the one where you do the welcome aboard clean and then you have a late night show which you can say pretty you know you can't sure that kind of concept right with that but but no but you can say fuck and no cunt huh yeah no cunt so that's why i don't work that's why i don't work that room no no but so what's the welcome aboard? What's that? Well, you know, hello and goodbye. Or you might say the farewell show, which is much better. Farewell show makes sense.

People have been on there for eight, ten days, and you can shit on the boat and say this sucked or this was great. But when they first get there, they don't even know how to find their cabin. They know where the fuck they are. So you're the first night? You're the first thing that they sing. They have a couple of dances for two minutes, and here's that comedian.

And I swear there's people just wandering around. I had people when I was doing this, you do like a half an hour, 28 minutes in, the people are walking in to go sit in the first row. I said, the fucking show's over, you dickhead. I can't imagine that. And the fear is, for people that don't know the thing,

you know, that if you suck, Yeah. you're stuck with the same people on the boat, but I don't suck, and I know how to hide. Yeah. Yeah.

So they can't find me. How many shows do you do, though, like in a week? Well, you had the question about, you know, the language thing.

Now they have, because the ships are so big. I just got this one called The Anthem of the Sea. Largest ship in the world. 6,100 passengers. That's crazy. Yeah, it is.

So you can do a week. No, there they have a comedy room. Yeah. A 250 seat comedy room. Yeah. Which is like a throwback to Vegas days. You do like 17 shows a week or 15 shows a week. Really?

Two or three every night, which is not my cup of tea. Are they half hour shows or full hour? Yeah, exactly. No, even 25 minutes. Oh, okay. And that's where they always say, oh, you only have to do 25 minutes. Yeah, half-hour shows or full-hour? Yeah, exactly. No, even 25 minutes. And that's what they always say. Oh, you only have to do 25 minutes. Yeah, but I have to do 15 of the fucking things, you know? I haven't got one night off, and I like my cocktails, and now I'm going, so that means

I can't drink at all. You're killing me here, you know? You've got to wait to have the cocktails. Yes, yes. And I don't want to wait. It's like one show, then cocktails. Yeah, it's funny. Rogan says, you know, I still drink, and everybody in Boston want to wait. It's like one show, then cocktails. Yeah, it's funny. Rogan says, you know, I still drink,

and everybody in Boston's AA, you know. Right. And he said, did you ever consider, did you ever try to stop drinking? And I said, no, no. I actually thought for a minute, I go, no, no. Well, yeah, I mean, like, I'm sober,

and I talked to Sweeney. He's sober. I remember what you fucking drink you like like white Russians I think black Russians right yeah the black Russians no milk yeah I remember yeah that's funny I remember because it was always one of my hand probably that's not no but like we would sit there at Nick's yeah and we were having fun you know at that bar in the back of the original Nick's in the circle and i think you were didn't you maybe dated a waitress or married a waitress or yeah pam yeah she was great yeah yeah she said to say hello by the way oh that's very nice you're still with her um yeah kind of here and there okay good

good and she's all right yeah she's great she's great but and i just remember oh man yeah well we won't go too deep into it no but you but it's sort of amazing that you still drink, isn't it? I don't find it amazing, but I do find there's a lot more. I find that there's a lot more booze around because nobody else drinks. But do you don't find that it doesn't tie you? Have we started yet? Sure. Oh, I didn't know.

But, I mean, doesn't it beat you up a little bit or no? You're all right. Well, I'm no kid, but I walk every day. I mean, yeah, I'm actually in pretty good shape. So I'm still surviving. You're just one of those guys, man. You're genetically built for it. Hopefully, yeah.

What do you mean hopefully? I mean, like I wake up in the morning, I never have a hangover. When do you start drinking, though? Oh, you know, in the evening. I have a few, like the name of my album that's out is called Live With the Manhattan. Right. Live For Manhattan. Yeah, got it.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And that's a virtual comedy. And so this is, yeah, that kind of shows a picture of Manhattan. And that's before dinner, a few of those. It's so funny, though. And then eat, and then afterwards maybe a couple of those black Russians that we mentioned. Yeah, the black Russians.

Yeah, but that's it, just the booze? Oh, yeah. No, yeah. You had to stop some of the stuff, please. You just said, yeah, it wouldn't be an interview with me. It would be at Forrest Lawn as we went by on the way up here. Right? Yeah.

Crazy. No, you couldn't. No, the other stuff, no. You can't do that. You age out of that. The white stuff, no. That had to end at some point. Somebody asked me, you couldn't. No, the other stuff, no. You can't do that. You age out of that. The white stuff, no. That had to end at some point. Somebody asked me, when did I stop doing this?

I don't remember, but I know it was a long time ago. Right. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Why did we quit that? Coke. You know, the Coke. And we said, well, because the product is kind of crappy now.

You can't get anything any good. Right. That was the initial reason. Then money wasn't being a low one. Sure. And then health, of course. Right. And also, you run out of things to talk about.

How many times can you stay up all night talking to your drug dealer? Yeah. And you're repeating yourself. You're repeating yourself, and then you're repeating yourself. Right. Where'd you grow up? I grew up in West Roxbury. West Roxbury.

Next to Brookline. I remember West Roxbury, and isn't it next to Brookline? There used to be a- Next to Dedham, Brookline. Right. There used to be a deli there that I worked at on Pottingham Circle called Gordon's Deli. Really? Do you remember it?

I remember. I know Pottingham Circle. There was a Chinese restaurant, and then there was one of the- Yeah. Yeah. One of the last of the Jewish delis here for a while. I know the place you don't, but the Chinese Red, because Red Auerbach used to go in there all the time, the guy that was the president of the Celtics.

Oh, the Celtics president. And he just pretty much lived at that place. And where you're talking about was up towards where the tennis courts and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, I think so. I just remember working there one summer. I worked at a deli there. And you didn't last? You couldn't make a career out of that? Out. I worked at a deli there. And you didn't, it didn't last.

You couldn't make a career out of that? Out of working, being a deli guy? Yeah. Well, it was one of the last Jewish delis in Boston. There wasn't that many. There's like a B&D or whatever. And I found this one somehow by this guy named Shelly owned it with his wife. And he's this huge fat guy.

And he would sit there eating the ribs from next door. You know, it was crazy. It was a whole world of- Could you fall back on that if you had to? It's the last job I had done. When I really think about what could I do, I'm like, well, my resume is a little shallow. I was a grill cook and that was it. Wow.

But you had a gig though before. I was a teacher. But like Wes Roxbury though, when you were growing up, what's like, what, what'd your folks do? What was the family like? I mean, did you? It was very, it was a blue collar. Yeah? Everybody was white Irish Catholic. Everybody. Were your folks from Ireland or their first? My four grandparents were from Ireland.

Oh yeah? All four. See. And my, in fact, my, my son-in-law is from Ireland also now too. So the Irish, but everybody, I mean, when I say everybody was Irish, everybody was Irish. Right. Like an Italian family was,

that would be an oddity. Yeah. No blacks, no Hispanics, just. All Irish in West Roxbury. All big, big families.

Because the Jews came there eventually, didn't they? Or were they in Brookline? Well, they were in Brookline. They've always been in Brookline. Yeah.

Yeah. And was that, now you had, you had grandparents that came like off the boat. Yeah. They were Irish. Now, do you know where you come from in Ireland?

Yeah, Cork. Oh, yeah? Coney Cork. All four from the same area. And do you have, like, a ton of brothers and sisters? I only have, I have a small family, just three brothers. Yeah. That was the point.

That would be a small family. But it was always great if you wanted sports, because all you have to do is knock on three doors and you have 15 kids. Right. They were just right down the street. Yeah. And like, so you brought up pretty Catholic? Brought up that way, yeah.

Yeah. Went away? Everybody says they're fallen Catholic. I don't know what they fell out of, but yeah. I don't know. It kind of changed quite a bit. Yeah. I was pretty strict Catholic. I went to Catholic grammar school.

Yeah. And then I got a scholarship to a Catholic high school. Yeah. So I had my 12 years worth. I got my beatings bit. Yeah, I was pretty strict Catholic. I went to Catholic grammar school, and then I got a scholarship to a Catholic high school. Yeah. So I had my 12 days worth. I got my beatings in. Yeah. Did you really get beaten?

Oh, yeah. The nuns were really like that? No, the nuns weren't bad. The Christian brothers. Oh, really? Yeah, I don't know if they could eliminate the word Christian.

I don't remember that being part of their modus operandi. And so... They used to carry... Seriously, they carried it. They had that cincture around their pants. Yeah. And there would be a strap.

They had a strap, big leather, thick leather thing that they carried like cops carry a gun. They carried it. It was right outside. Yeah. And I would say one guy, one particular brother, Ford, passed away, thank God. He used to give me the strap every day every day for what

he was the trigonometry teacher and I still remember one time I got a hundred in the thing and he was so used to hitting me he gave me the strap

that day too I said I got a hundred he goes well you probably deserved it you know you had it coming yeah right that's for tomorrow

it's for stuff that I didn't see yeah yeah yeah wow and your brothers were older or younger two older brothers one younger brother were they around oh yeah coming. That's for tomorrow. It's for stuff that I didn't see. And your brothers are older or younger? Two older brothers, one younger. Are they around? Oh, yeah. You guys are tough.

Resilient, I think. Resilient, that's right. And so, do you go, have you been to Ireland? I've only been there just in, you know, it's a pity that I haven't done more. It's beautiful. Because I've been to 150 countries. It's weird, and you're avoiding Ireland, huh?

I don't know if I'm avoiding it, but I was in Shannon Airport. That was about it. That was it? Yeah. I don't know why I've never made that trip. There's probably Gavin's back there. Oh, there's still relatives, yeah. Because I just went there, and I have no connection to it genetically.

I'm an Eastern European Jew, and I love Ireland. I love it. All right, I'm going to take your and I love Ireland. I love it. All right, I'm going to take your suggestion. You should. I'll do that. Because between the USO and all the cruise ships,

I've been pretty much everywhere. All the places. Everywhere, but I have not been to Ireland. You'd be surprised, man. You know, it was like I had this weird observation about Ireland

just from being, because like, you know, when I was coming up with you in comedy and, you know, I'm about as different from a guy who grows up in Boston as you can be, really.

So I was always kind of like, you know, I was always trying to fit in. And there's a certain time. Were you really trying? Not really. No. I was doing what I could. In your own way.

Yeah, I was trying to, you know, get something done, become something. But the Boston Irish are tough as fuck. Right. I mean, right? I mean, that's their reputation, right? So you go to Ireland and you see dudes that look like Boston Irish, but they're Irish-Irish, and you're expecting this attitude and this ass-kicking, and they're just sweet as can be.

You're expecting the aggression in your face. Yeah, yeah. And it's not there. I'm like, well, I don't know if I can get used to this. Yeah. But it's the same families, same thing. Wow, that's interesting. It is.

It was really weird because my immediate feeling was like, oh, here we go, and nothing. Just, hi, how are you? Just nice people. They're putting me on here. Exactly. Exactly. So when you're growing up, though,

you went to school, you went to college, you become a teacher? Yes. That was the goal? Yeah, that was the goal uh yeah yeah there was yeah that was the goal i should say yeah and i taught for 14 years then i was a coach i coached a couple sports which i really loved you like what what did you teach so like what year i taught oh i taught from 1970 to 84 really yeah i was i was teaching uh while i was doing comedy the last three or four years. But when you set out to be a teacher,

what subjects were you teaching? I was teaching primarily English, but then I got into guidance. Oh, really? Like what grade? Me in guidance. Well, I mean, it was a younger you. Well, I would hope so. You hadn't got off the rails yet, I guess, I'm assuming.

I don't know. Maybe. Yeah, I guess, I'm assuming. I don't know. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, I guess you're right. I guess you're right. Looking back. Well, you were hiding it good. No, no. Yeah, it wasn't a constant. You were out all night.

The devil came out a little later. A little later, right? Yes. Comedy brings the devil out for sure. But so you're teaching English to like high school? Well, I was teaching in a vocational school where English was their second language, but they didn't have a first language. Because it was just, you know, I mean, I used to make the kids auto bottles, sheet metal people. I make them wash their hands before I give them the books.

Oh, right. It was just not. So I should have been in teaching more advanced kids. And I was teaching there. And they paused. We didn't get along. They didn't. When I coached, the kids loved me.

Yeah. Teaching. They didn't want to be in an academic setting. You know, they didn't mind being in shop one week. But the next week, they had to go to classes. Oh, so this was like a requirement. Oh, yeah. If you want to build the engine, you got to learn how to write things.

Well, yeah, yeah. Supposedly, yeah. Yeah. At least to read the instructions. Right. But in those days, the vocational schools were pretty much a dumping ground for the guys that couldn't, girls still, that couldn't make it in regular mainstream. So every class would have, you know, four kids would be out because they were in juvie

hall or they're- So it was either there or jail or the military. Yes, yeah, yeah. I remember people saying, well, you know, if he flunks your course, he's going to have to go in their service and go, best thing in the world. Send him. I don't even care if he goes in on our side. He can play for the other team.

Yeah, that'd be really good for him. Yeah, because he's in trouble. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you're right. With that, maybe jail. Right, right. Maybe both. Right.

So it was just sort of like, we got to get him a trade. At least we got to try. And that has changed so dramatically. Because now, like culinary schools, you know, there's waiting lists for all these types of things. But in those days, drafting would be different. That was a little bit. Competency was okay. But I can still

remember these auto body and auto repair and sheet metal guys. Oh my God. Monsters? And just, what do we need this english for you know oh right right right maybe you'd want to speak to write something down yeah i remember trying to teach literature to them and the word i still this day i remember irony yeah i said just give me the definition back you know satire and a couple of them. Irony. And the kid, and I gave him 100 on the thing. He said, the complete flattening out of a town, irony.

And I go, well, you know what? You get 100, I raise it to you, you average up to around 30. So, yeah, but the complete flattening out of a town. And he was dead serious. I said, well, that's a pretty good joke. He goes, what do you mean joke? I know it's the flattening out of something. I said, yeah, that's a pretty good joke. He goes, what do you mean joke? I know it's a flattening out of something. I said, yeah.

Iron me. Ironing. The complete flattening out of a town. And he was confident. Oh, yeah. He knew he had that one right. So when you're teaching and you're doing like the guidance thing, are you doing guidance for these? No, the guidance was basically showing him how to turn the door knob to get

out of my room. I actually had a sign on my door. My door was never open. This is for the same vocational school? Yeah. Oh, my God. But seriously, I'm trying to show them how to do business letters. Yeah. And I said to the kid, he signs his name, he said, I said, well, I

have a name, Gleason. It's G-L-E-A-S-O-N. He goes, yeah. He said, well, you signed it G-L-E-E-S-O-N. He goes,

well, I was in a hurry. He missed, I said, you misspelled your own name. Come on. No, I'm not going to, I'm going,

yeah, I'm going, this is the type of people I deal with. I said, I was in a hurry. And he actually had an excuse. You know,

yeah, I'm sitting in Russia. That's your name. And this was in, was this in West Roxbury? No, no, this is Weymouth. Weymouth. Down in the South Shore. Yeah?

How did you, why down there? Oh, because they looked at me and I was big enough. And they hired people according to size rather than strength. You look like you might scare them. Yes. They might listen to you. Yes. Yeah.

All the academic teachers were like me, 6'2", 210s. Oh, really? Just so they wouldn't push you over? Yeah, like the guy in the next,

one of my best friends played professional football for seven years. That was the time. That's who they hired. And what'd you coach? And my buddy, he was teaching math.

He was horrible at math. I went in one time, he gets up on the blackboard, I said, you know, that's wrong. What do you have on the board? He goes, well, they don't know. I said, and you didn't know. Did he admit it?

Yes. Yeah. It wasn't a problem. They just hired me because I'm big. Yeah. And we used to, you know, detention in high school. Now, when you were in high school, did you have problems? I ditched school a lot,

but I never got into big trouble. Yeah, I would skip classes. Yeah. And one time I got sent to the principal's office because I set something on fire.

Oh, well, depending on what it was. It was another teacher, maybe. No, it was an electronics class. I was just fucking around with shit. It was an accident,

but I got suspended for a couple days. Why? What were you going to talk about? No, I was just saying that I wouldn't send with the other guy, the football player, Kenny Blouse, my friend, we would never send anybody to detention. What we would do, we'd make them play us in basketball and basically beat the shit out of them. Five of them against two of us. And we'd start the game by, okay, you guys take it out and you throw the ball and hit the guy right in the balls to start the thing. And physically,

I mean, elbow, beat them up, beat them up, you know, to the point that they were, you know, no, no, don't, send us to detention.

We'll never do it again. Yeah. So what, now what businesses are your siblings in? What do they do? They were in the trades. My dad was a carpenter.

Oh, yeah? My one brother worked for the phone company, and two other brothers were master electricians. Oh, really? And I'm the idiot that talks. And I can't do anything with my hands. I do a few things with my hands, but not anything that's socially acceptable. Yeah. So they were electricians their whole life? Yeah. That's a good gimmick. That's a good racket acceptable. Yeah. So they were electricians their whole life? Yeah.

That's a good gimmick. That's a good racket there. Yeah. It's a skill. Real trade. Yeah. They need them. People need them. Yes. I was thinking that, you know, when the end of the world comes or whatever, somebody can do something.

Like telling jokes is really not going to be on demand. No, no. We not going to be on demand. No, no, we're gonna be the first to go. Can you build a shelter? Yeah, okay, you're the top of the heap now. Hey, listen to this, I got good type 5. Yeah, we don't need you. You're outside the gate. Also, I play the ukulele too. Oh, come on in, that's good. We need a uke player. You know how to build a fire without matches?

Okay, you're the president. Yeah, I wish I knew how to do something. Yeah. It's never too late, people tell me. Well, it's pretty damn late. It's getting there.

It's getting there. I mean, you could build something, couldn't you? Oh, no. Nothing. No, I mean, some assembly required, but that's a bullshit line.

There's a lot of assemblies. Sure, yeah. It's too much. Get someone to do it. Handyman special. I go, some assembly required, but that's a bullshit line. There's a lot of assemblies. Sure, yeah, it's too much. Get someone to do it. Handyman special. I go, yes, they are. I'm not one of them. I just bought a condo, and it was ready to move into. And I looked at the other condo, and they said, oh, all you have to do is maybe knock this wall out.

And I said, you got the wrong guy. All the walls need to be good where they are. Everything has to be in shape. All sex. Oh, that's nice. So were you living in a house up in Boston? Yeah, I was in an apartment and eventually the weather, honestly, the weather finally got

to me. And it's not getting any better. So what makes you make the jump from guidance counselor where, you know... Oh, into the comedy? Well, I was a bartender for a lot of those years, and I was a wise guy bartender, you know. Where were you doing that, Tendon Bar? Probably 20

different places. Oh, really? Yeah. And that was... You could always fall back on that, right? I could. Yeah. Yeah, which I may fall back as of next week. Yeah. Things keep going the way they have. No, but that was, like, for instance, before yeah I had 22 seats at this power and before I remember this one before guys sat down yeah what's

your cheapest beer yeah root beer screw get up screw if you put 20 bucks tip to me before you order then you can sit down they go what do you mean before you have a lot of you that's the point yeah give me 20 bucks yeah so that I carried into whatever comedy I was yeah and for a while it seemed to work yeah so you would literally entertain guys at the bar in a way yeah pretty much yeah yeah and then but but and also having all those you know it's Irish families and my dad was a great storyteller was he and anyway as most of the time Irish guys you know and so so that that came that fell to me well some of them I can talk guys, you know. And so that came, that fell to me.

Well, some of them can talk, but like, you know, and they seem like they should be telling a good story, but they're just charismatic. And, you know, you realize, like, that didn't go anywhere. Right? I mean, but some guys genuinely can do it. Yes. And your dad was one of those guys.

Yes, yes. But it's funny because, like, I guess your jokes are more kind of like, you know, quick. Yes. And your dad was one of those guys. Yes, yes. But it's funny because I guess your jokes are more kind of like quick. Yes. You're not doing the long form stories. No, you're right. Well, yeah, yeah. They come- But they all string together, don't they?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's the sides and there's tags and- So you took it all from your dad? A lot of it would be, not the material, but certainly the- But the pace that I've talked at, a friend described described one time is 70 words a minute gusts to 140 yeah yeah right and I used to talk so fair I played some old tapes from the days like when you were in town yeah and I'm and I hear the audience is laughing I'm going I have no idea what I'm saying no I mean I don't even what I'm saying that was

the coke to everybody else in the audience Was on the same stuff Sure yeah Everybody was jacked Yeah I mean those bad habits When you think back Like smoking

When I was growing up Everybody smoked Did you smoke? Yeah Up until the year 2000 A bunch of us quit On the same day And I've never had an urge

After like a month And never even thought about going back But everybody When I say everybody Everybody smoked yeah oh yeah no everything on airplanes we smoked on the air i can remember when some of the christians the four german couples i stuck with they didn't speak a word of english yeah and they're having their as they have in their ice cream they're smoking while they have an ice cream you know cut for the thing and a little bit of vanilla oh my god still at it and the same i think the same thing with what we were playing around with from you know the coke and drinking everybody else was doing it

sure we'll be doing it too yeah well i mean that yeah it was i remember it was just uh you know at certain places and i don't know like uh yeah it was just around it was almost like acceptable yeah it kind of was yeah so when you start you start doing comedy, where's the first place you go up? There was only one show in town. That was the Comedy Connection. The original one down? Yeah, the one on Warrington Street. Warrington Street, right down the street from Nick's.

Yes, yeah. As you remember, there were three comedy clubs. About four or five comedy clubs all within, what, a quarter mile there. I guess that's true. I mean, there was Nick's and then the Comedy Connection and then what? And Duck Soup across the street. And that was later. Well, it was later.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Doherty had the vault. Doherty had that. Doherty. You're insecure. That's your problem. That's what he said to me. He's still around.

He's still around. Yeah. He's another resilient fucker, huh? Yeah. He's one of the few guys that's left that's, well, I mean, quite a bit older than around. Yeah. He's another resilient fucker, huh? Yeah. Yeah. He's one of the few guys that's left that's quite a bit older than me. Yeah. Yeah. He's old-timey.

I think he's still performing. I don't know. He came out of the happy hour circuit. He was like a singer. He was a singer. It was Dick Girardi and the Majority. You remember that? He was the highest paid act down the Cape.

And he owned this place, the Crystal Palace. Oh, really? Which would be worth a fortune now, just the land alone. Huh. I mean, he was like a paid act down the Cape. And he owned this place, the Crystal Palace. Oh, really? Which would be worth a fortune now, just the land alone. Huh. And I mean, he was like a honcho down there. Yeah. And yeah, it was- And he fucked it all up on drugs.

Yeah. Right? And then he gets, he must be sober a million years now. Went through different wives and this and that. Yeah. And yeah, yeah. Well, as a lot of people, what you made, you spent. Yeah, yeah.

There was never anything about, gee, maybe I should save money for next week. No, never. When I started, I still have a mentality like that. If I have a little bit of money, I freak out and I don't buy anything. Because I feel, you know what I mean? You mean insecurity? No, I'm afraid I'm going to not have money. Yeah.

You know what I mean? So I just hold on to it. If I need a loan, I know who to go to to not have money. Yeah. You know what I mean? So, like, I just hold on to it. Like, I just... If I need a loan, I know who to go to. That's right. If you have to. Yeah. I mean, let's not go crazy, but...

We're talking, you know, maybe 10, 20 grand. But you know, I'd have a good time. Do you have a boat? I have friends that have boats. That's much better. Oh. Then you don't have to do any more. Okay.

So, you go up at... What year is it that you first go on stage? In the 70s? 79. Really? That had been going on for a couple of years before. I came in on the first wave, but I was- 79.

So the connection was really the first comedy club there. Yes. That was the only one. Like people talk about, oh, Jay Leno. Well, Jay Leno wasn't working in comedy clubs in Boston. There was no such one. Like people talk about, oh, Jay Leno. Well, Jay Leno wasn't working in Comedy Clubs in Boston. There was no such thing. Remember before your time? It was a Playboy Club.

Right. Or they'd open for musical acts, right? Yeah. That would be the place, maybe a venue for a club. The Playboy Club. Yeah. Do you remember that place? It was before my time.

Huh. But I mean, I know where it was growing up, but I was too young. So in 79, so the Comedy Connection has been open a couple years? Yeah, and then we opened up the Ding Ho over in Cambridge. In Cambridge at the Chinese restaurant. Now, you never worked there, right? I was there, like when I got to college in 81 or 82, I went over there. Oh, you did?

I did. I was actually able to go on stage there a couple of times on the open mics, but I think it was towards the end of it. I i wasn't there during the heyday right but i remember like i remember lenny was hosting an open mic when i was there maybe is that i had a show there steve sweeney you had a show there sweeney yeah dj has it remember dj dj yeah dj hannard and i had them from the old days yeah i remember dj of course like because i when i was college, in 81, 82-ish, I would go to Play It Against Sam's because I wanted to do comedy. So I started doing open mics on my own, I think. It was probably the summer of 84.

I had Play It Against Sam's. Oh, okay. And that was Barry Katz's. Katz, but like, you know, Rogerson hosted it. So like, I remember both with Kenny and Lenny. Yeah. Lenny at the Ding Ho and Rodgerson at Sims. Like, you get on this list to do up a mic.

You wait all fucking night. Right. They'd get shit-faced. Yeah. They'd do an hour between acts. Right. And they forget to put you on. Yeah, they go, this next guy.

And so you're waiting patiently. Yeah. And they repeat, this next guy. Yeah. And then, like you said, 45 minutes later. Yeah. That's it, folks. That's right. I'm over here.

That's the fucking worst. I got so mad. Well, that wasn't just unique to there. That happened to me going down to New York when I would work a catch or something like that. You'd go all the way to New York, and you're waiting around, and now it's quarter to two,

and guys like Andy Kaufman wouldn't empty the room intentionally. I'm going, what an asshole. And then I never got out, and you wouldn't get on. Or you get on for four people and they're waiting for you to get off. At that point you're so distraught and you're so

pissed off, you're not going to be funny at all anyways. Yeah, you just feel your whole sort of like reason for being there diminishing. It's the worst feeling. You had to go through that too? It's a slow bleeding. Yeah, it is. Because you sit there, you're there at the beginning of the night and it's great. feeling. You had to go through that too? It's a slow bleeding. Yeah, it is. Because you sit there, you're there at the beginning of the night

and it's great. Yeah. And then you just slowly watch like people going away. And there were guys, if you remember, guys like Godfrey. Yeah, Gilbert.

They would intentionally walk, they used to go walk in the room. Right. Making people leave. I never got the point of that. Well, no, there was like, I don't think that was, that was down at Boston thing. Not down at Right. Making people leave. I never got the point of that. Well, no, there was like, that was, I don't think that was a, you know, that was down

in Boston thing. Not down in Boston. No, no. If anyone was walking in the room, it was because they lost their minds. Like if Jay Charbonneau got mad, maybe some people would leave. You know what I mean? Like the only reason people walked to Boston was because the guy on stage got pissed off that no one was laughing.

Right? Correct. Correct, yeah. And that's why we go into all the way to New York which to me was a big deal.

And you go, oh man, that frustration. Like you said, you get there early. Yeah. You'd be there from 8 to 1.30 in the morning.

And you're told you're going to go on? Yeah, you should be, oh any minute now. Yeah, Louis. Yeah, yeah, Don, Don, we're going to get you up in a little while. Yeah, yeah. From Boston, right? Yeah, you should be. Oh, any minute now. Yeah, Louis. Yeah, yeah, Don, Don. We're going to get you up in a little while. Yeah, yeah.

From Boston, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we had a couple weeks ago. Yeah, yeah. I didn't get on then either. But see, that's the interesting thing because the one thing about working in Boston was you worked. Once I came in second in that festival, I was out on the road.

There was two-man shows, one-nighters, you know, that's how you paid your dues, not sitting around waiting. Right, a lot of satellite rooms. So you could work pretty much. Yeah. And I look back, you know, keeping notes away. And the money was, you know, shit. But I look back, in one year, I worked 330 days out of the 360.

So you'd work every night. Just in the area. Yes. On those fucking one days. Oh, without traveling. I didn't travel for years. Yeah. I had my own show at Nick's on Saturday night for nine years.

Wow. And I missed about six, maybe six weeks total in nine years. And we started with one show there, and then eventually by the end, we were doing five shows on a Saturday night. I remember the fucking, remember when they, I remember this with you. I remember you were there that like there was a period there where where nicks had like three rooms within the one place downstairs and downstairs right and you would do like two shows in each room five or six and you run up and down one room to

the next and they were all packed yes it was crazy yeah i remember that man and we're all running up and down i was saying and i was when we did it the first time, in those days, the Boston idea was that the headliner would be the host of the show. Right. So I'd go on and bring you on. Yeah. Mark, man, okay, you do a great job. Yeah.

So you do your 15th. Yeah. And the next guy comes up and he shits. So I get him off in six because I'm going to control the whole thing. Right. But when you're doing five shows, you can't be in two places. I remember Dominic, the manager on the side, he said, you're on upstairs. I go, I'm on here right now.

I'm on stage. Oh, Dominic, is he around still? Oh, yeah. He's all right? He's straightened out. Did he? Oh, that's good. He's on the bright.

He's been for many years. Oh, good. He's the sheet metal, excuse me, sheet rock guy, working hard guy. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's doing very good. Oh, that's good. That's nice. He was always a pretty nice guy. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's doing very good. Oh, that's good. That's nice. He was always a pretty nice guy.

Yeah, yeah. When sober, yes. Yeah. Do you talk to Chappie? On occasion. But he's, you know, he's out this way. You know, he's doing the Hollywood thing. Yeah, yeah.

I haven't seen him lately. He's just seen him around. But a lot of those guys, Lenny and Sweene and George McDonald, I still talk to. George, yeah. He used to host one of those open mic things too. Yeah, he used to host it at Comedy Hell

at Stitches. At Stitches. Yeah, I used to do that. Yeah, and Crimmins has passed away now. Yeah, it's too bad. I know, like, so you go to

the Comedy Connections 1979, so who are the guys that are around? Well, the people who were already around then, Teddy Bergeron was one of the guys.

That's so funny, too. And when he was sober, he was brilliant. You know, I had him on. When he wasn't sober, he was horrible. I had him on a live one. It was like in Boston. I think I reached out to a bunch of people, but there's a rift there, right, between Blumenreich and some of the older guys. Oh, more than a rift.

Right. And you're on the anti-Bloomenreich. Way on. Yeah, yeah. I'm on the top of the wall, shooting, shooting. I don't know what happened there, but like I can tell you, but I don't know. He just almost pretty much refused

to use the axe in Boston. He goes, in print, he goes, yeah, Don Gavin, Tony V, he goes, yeah, they're okay. They're not my cup of tea. He goes, I don't know what the big deal is so I'm not using people like that

and this is in town in print yeah you know and I'm working everywhere and I'm going we're an asshole yeah

so this day and then he tried to get me in his place to Wilbur and he called and he offered me like hardly next to nothing for a show

and he said well I gotta get the first $1,500 that comes in and then you can get three other guys and split up. I said, oh, I'm deeply interested. Because I didn't think you'd be interested.

Great. So I'm bullshitting them. So I hang up. I get a phone call from a couple of real jerky comedians. Go, oh, if you're in, I'm in. I go, I was fucking with them. I wouldn't put my foot in there. My brother could be in there performing.

I'd have to get a date. Still not go in. No. Yeah. Well, I just came in. I know I did a a date. Still not go in. No. Yeah. Well, I just came in. I know I did a live WTF, a live podcast. Sure, yeah. And I knew-

Well, that's right. When you went in, you asked me to come on. Yes. And that's the reason. It is because of that. And I get it. And it's just a connection. Yeah.

And then when we started doing the Ding Ho in Cambridge- And that was Lenny and Barry? And me and Steve Sweeney. Yeah. And DJ Hazard was a guy. DJ was one of the original guys too. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Driving around that Subaru Brat. You remember that little pickup, that Subaru he had? So funny. He's such a big boy in that fucking little pickup. Yeah, yeah. He was another big kid.

Remember, in those days, almost all the comedians were big. Big boys. That was kind of like the teacher thing. Just hired people that could handle them. You can handle the crowd with your whip or with your fist. Right.

And there were no women. None. None. Paula Ponson was one of the first. Yes. But, yeah. Did she show up at the Ding Ho? Yes, she worked at the Ding Ho, sure.

She's a character. Yeah, yeah. She worked at the Ding Ho quite a bit, yeah. And Stephen Wright came out of there, too, a couple years after that time, too. Right. And when did Kenny Rogerson get there? He came in a few years after me. He was a Chicago guy.

And when he first came in, he comes into The Dinghole. Yeah. It's a snowstorm. It's got to be 2 o'clock in the morning. Yeah. He comes in. People are, first of all, it's after hours. Yeah.

There's probably 50 people in there, almost all comedians. Yeah. But we have a table up on the stage people playing cards for pretty good money people over here smoking joints people are drinking

people are doing ball he goes oh my god I found a home I used to hear about those stories about after hours at the Ding Ho

and the hours I said recently if you leave there and it wasn't light out and you'd go, oh, great. I can maybe get three hours sleep, maybe. But you come out, you go, oh, shit, it's quarter to nine. People jogging by. Oh, yeah, that was the worst.

Boy, you were up early, weren't you? I go, yeah. The worst. I got up early 28 hours ago. And Elminii too, right? Yeah, Kevin was one of the first. He's another guy that emigrated. I got him in.

Where did he come from? I did the San Francisco competition. Oh, yeah. And he didn't make it. You know, they go down to 40 people. He didn't even make it to the 40, which I was surprised at. That's the worst. Yeah, I did.

So I made it to the final five or whatever. So we became fast friends. And I told him, I said, come out to Boston. You can get a lot of work. He lived in San Francisco? Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Because I told him, I said, come out to Boston. You can get a lot of work. He lived in San Francisco? Yeah. Ah. Yeah.

Because I thought he, and then he went back. Well, he originally was, was he a Connecticut guy? Maybe. I think so. I don't know. He passed away too, right? Yes. But I brought him out.

I said, come on out. And he caught on right away. So like you said, even if your craft wasn't perfected, you could get stage time to work at it, which was not true of LA or of New York.

Because they had to fill those one-nighters. I mean, I don't know whose genius that was, but between Mike and the connection and Katz,

there was like 200 fucking... And yeah, Dick already had many of them. Oh, he had a few too, huh? Oh, man.

And Roger Paul down in Jersey, right? So there was just like this weird network. You could work every night. Yeah. Remember like the Taunton Regency? That was like a good one. And one of the keys to working is to have a car. Oh, yeah.

There's usually the guy that had the car. Yeah, I was the guy. That was part of it. But that was usually maybe not one of the best comedians. That's right. But he had a car. That's right. But he had a car. That's right. Well, as an opener, you'd have to drive you guys.

Pick up three or four people. Yeah. And not pick them up at one central spot. You have to go and get this guy here, get this guy here. Go get Cy Bell and fucking... Bob Cy Bell. That was another one of the original guys, too. He passed away, too.

That's too bad. He was a sweet guy. See, it's good you're interviewing me now because before I passed away. Oh, I'm glad. Afterwards, it wouldn't be that much fun. I'm glad I got to know. It wouldn't be that much fun. But Cy Bell was a kook.

He was fun. He was a nice guy. He was unique. You know, he was well-educated. He was a teacher also, which I didn't know until many years later. No kidding. But that was a guy that had stories and character. I mean, he hiked the, what's the trail that goes up?

Appalachian Trail? Yeah. Not once, but twice. Oh, what's the trail that goes up? Appalachian Trail? Yeah. Not once, but twice. Oh, no kidding. Yeah. Healthy guy. I don't know about that, but he stopped doing everything. He said, you should have known me when I was drinking.

I go, no, I'm glad I didn't. He was wild. Because you're already crazy now. Yeah. Imagine with him on acid. He said, oh, I was really into the acid. Oh, so he was like that guy. I said, like you did it more than once?

He goes, more than once. And Tony V, you're close with. He came in after you? Tony came in after us, yeah. Because he's like Bobcat's generation. There was that whole bunch. Yes, exactly. Bobcat, Tom Kenny, Tony V.

Good. Good memory. Yeah, and Groff. Like, when I was doing open mics. Jonathan Groff. Jonathan Groff. Dana Gould was just leaving town. Yeah.

Bobby was just leaving town. When I was in college going to my first shows, Goldthwait left. He had a garage sale at Stitches. Jonathan Groff. Jonathan Groff. Dana Gould was just leaving town. Yeah. Bobby was just leaving town. When I was in college going to my first shows, Goldthwait left. He had a garage sale at Stitches. Right. As a show. That's funny. And like Dana left and Tom Kenny left. And I guess Paula left a little before that.

Right. And then I went to like San Francisco. Like it was Mecca or something. Yeah. Kevin Meaney too. Yeah. He went back to San Francisco. And then when I was coming up in Boston, the guys in my generation were like Kevin Knox,

was like around my age. And I had gone to LA for a year and then came back, got all fucked up on drugs with Kennison, who you hung out with when he first came. Kennison, yeah. I was out with that crew, with Kyle LeBeau and that crew. Yeah. Which was not good for my health. No.

You went on the road with them? A little bit. Oh, yeah, with the Outlaws? Yeah, a few times. When Lenny was with them? No, Lenny wasn't with them then. But we did a number of shows. That's a rough go.

That was in a real bad period there. For him? Well, Kennison, yeah. Yeah. Was it after? He was doing stuff on stage and you know

the blow oh so that was after the peak coming down the other side he was still proper but you would never know if he was going to show up

he was supposed to be cutting a new album and Carl Boa and I ended up three different nights doing the whole show because he never showed up yeah I had that problem and now the audience

is there they didn't mind seeing me and Carl but they were waiting to see Kinnison and they wanted three different nights doing the whole show because he never showed up. Yeah, I had that problem. And now the audience is the other. They didn't mind seeing me and Kyle, but they were waiting to see Kenison. To see Sam, yeah. And that was always, and then we'd have to do a show after that, and it's the same people. And they didn't want to hear it. Oh, my God.

Yeah, I remember when I was living up on top of the Comedy Store at Crest Hill. Yeah. You know, Sam had been up for two or three days. We'd all been up. He passed out on the floor, and that night, supposed to be like it where my brother went to college in tucson i think arizona state wow and i had to call my brother i'm like i don't think it's gonna happen he might be a little late yeah i don't know if they're gonna if you're gonna pull it together

and you know and only my brother knew that that you know he canceled because he was all fucked up but you know that was the thing about hanging out with kennis and there was a lot of listening involved and that gets a little bit much you know yeah yeah yeah like uh-huh sam yeah oh yeah yeah i'll take a little more just slide it over yeah yeah so when did you do the san francisco competition i did it uh 80 maybe 81 or something like that. I had only been doing comedy a very short time. I was still teaching so I took a sabbatical

half year to see if I could complete my masters and unknown to the people where I was teaching I only needed one more course to get my masters. They didn't know

so I went cross country to see if I was a comedian and I went with Martin Olsen do you remember him? The piano player at the Ding Ho. Oh he was? No Olsen. Do you remember him? The piano player at the Ding Ho. Oh, he was? No, I don't remember him.

Yeah. We had a piano player, which I always thought there was a luxury. Sure. The comedy store still has one. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Almost all the clubs did.

Think about it. Yeah. Yeah. To me, it seems like a foreign thing right now. It was nice. It was a human thing. Oh, no, I like it. I like it.

I hate when people play music to bring you up to. They're about to bring you up, and they're like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, come on. Yeah, what do you want for your intro? Yeah, right. Yeah, what kind of music? I want to name you.

Bring me up. Yeah. It's like, what do I got to? So I took him. We drove cross country. Yeah. With Mountain Hills. I drove.

I had a car at the time, and I drove. So you've been at it three years, but you're doing well. You're killing, right? Yeah, not even three years, because even less. But I'm doing okay. You just took to it. But I want to know if I'm a comedian. I'm not So you've been at it three years, but you're doing well. You're killing, right? Yeah, not even three years, even less. But I'm doing okay. You just took to it. But I want to know if I'm a comedian. I'm not sure that I'm really a comedian.

So I'm funny in Boston, but I want to know. Are you compulsive writing the material? Trying to. Yeah. So when I go across country, the other guy had the gift to gab to another Irish. We went to Chicago, like the Zanies, and he came in, and the guy, one of the coverages, he goes, no, no, this is Don Gavin from Boston. The guy was supposed to know what that meant.

And he goes, oh. And we went in, and he goes, well, that's good. I'm glad. And it's $11 or whatever it was. And he goes, no, no, this is Don Gavin. And we ended up not paying. So I meet the owner there, Jim, and he said, you know, I kept saying I want to go up on stage, and I pestered him, and he finally said, I want to do this for five, seven minutes.

He says, give me a half an hour. I had maybe a half an hour. Right. I went up, and luckily it went very well. I ended up staying at his house for about three or four days. He got me work around there. Oh, yeah. I went all the way out, cross country, shopped a couple other cities, did some comedy.

Like this guy was able to get me on to the stage. This Martin Olsen guy? Yeah. So when I got to San Francisco, the comedy competition was a big, big thing in the state. It was, yeah. It was only like the third year. Oh, wow. And they said, you came all the way from Boston for this?

I go, I don't know what you're talking about this. You know, it was the night they were doing these auditions, but I have no idea that this thing would go on. Oh, it was a fluke. So I'm an outsider. If they're handpicking, let's say the 38 or the 37 or the 40 people, local guys that have been to San Francisco, I don't know anything about this. Yeah, yeah.

So I'm the only one that's picked that night, taking on it. Wow. People said, you came all the way? And I go, I still don't know what you're talking about. All the way for what? I didn't even know there was a competition. Oh, and then you're in it. And then I found out Michael Pritchard was the guy out there that won it the year I was

in. And another Irishman, we befriended each other, and he let me stay at his house. For those three weeks of that fucking competition? Yes, yes, yes. Everyone's looking at those numbers, like, what the fuck does that mean? Yeah, yeah. And going, how are they, you know, the judges would be, you know, once somebody gets someone that might be a columnist, but then you get a guy that owns the auto dealership.

Yeah, it's crazy. And one of the guys, when I was out there, they came next year, the one of the next year, you know, was driving, Slayton, Bobby Slayton, was driving the judges to the thing.

I go, I think he's probably got an inside thing going. Slayton. Yeah, I drove him. I drove him. Yeah, yeah. I told you. I live out there.

These are friends of mine. What's it to you? What's it to you? You're from Boston. What the hell? I told you. I don't know about that. These are friends of mine. What's it to you? What's it to you? You're from Boston. What the hell do you know? Absolutely not. Well, it was crazy. I remember doing it twice, and you're just like, after every night, you're like, am I

in? Am I still in? Yes. I mean, did I make the cut? What are these numbers? You had a way to. They compiled it. That fucking didn't make sense.

And it really made no sense, because night when I when I made it to the spot the final 10 on final five whatever so one night I come in 19th out of 20 yeah the week before and then the very next night I came in first I'm going so I'm doing the same here I wasn't that much of a mind fuck who came in second that year famous Danny Johnson I Denny Johnson. I don't remember. I remember Denny Johnson. Who was in that? Oh, Kevin Pollack came in on the top ten. He's the San Francisco guy, yeah. Yeah, he was quite funny then.

He's funny, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I just found his record on vinyl somewhere. Oh, really? Yeah, I told him about it. He doesn't want to hear about it. He's a very nice guy. He is a sweetheart.

So, okay, so that was the big journey, 1981. You drive across country and you find a new comedian. I became a comedian. You, okay. So that was the big journey. 1981, you drive across country and you find out you're a comedian. I'm a comedian. You had to be reaffirmed. But I drove the entire way. I drove the entire way. We finally get to Golden Gate Bridge. We get to there and my buddy says, can you pull over? I thought he had to take a leak. He goes,

I want to get behind the wheel and take this baby in. I said, what? You haven't driven one mile the whole fucking way and you're going to take the baby in? I said, you ain't taking any baby in. You took you haven't driven one mile the whole fucking way and you're gonna take the baby in i said you ain't taking any baby you took it in yeah so so now you know and here's the weird thing though like like the big question about the sort of regional element like there's only a couple like boston's was a unique thing was its own comedy you know world yes and it just feels to me like even by the way you were talking about new york that there was this idea like even when i talked to sweeney

you know when he came out here and it was okay yeah it didn't you know it didn't really pan out yeah or what anyone's gonna expect but you always had this buff you always had this cushion because you guys could live up there make a good living like when you went down to new york it's it's there must have been a point where you like fuck this well eventually when I'm done it worked out you know I was right working there sure yeah but you couldn't really you couldn't remember you know it was about money you'd have to move there to end you know get an apartment and all that and maybe make a living see that's the thing you guys and that's the difference between you know clearing the

room on purpose and doing the job is that in Boston it's the difference between you know you know clearing the room on purpose and doing the job is that in boston it's like you do the job right right you don't and if not you're not getting back there i mean you put if you pull that shit like uh like cough on the like lying on the ground seeing how long before everybody would leave you know yeah and i'm going what what the fuck you know i went up and kicked him kicked him you know on No, you didn't. Yes, I did. Because I said, I'm going to get on tonight. I'm not putting up with this shit. You went up the stairs and kicked Andy Kaufman in the shoulder.

Did he get up? Yeah. Yeah, it was the difference between this kind of boundary-pushing art guys and the guys who were like, let me get some laughs. Yeah, I just came all the way from Boston to watch you sleep. Bite me. You never liked him or got him? Not, well, just think of that,

just take that and multiply that by a few times. You probably wouldn't like him either. Yeah, I get you, I get you. And Larry David was another one. He would empty the room pretty intentionally. Yeah, and you saw that happen? Yeah, yeah, from witness. A catch. Yeah. Yeah. And you saw that happen? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

From witness. At Catch. Yeah. Yeah. Mostly at Catch, yeah. Yeah. And I worked all the other, like at the Commerce Trip and then, you know. The old improv?

Danger Field, the improv. Yeah, I did all those places too. Yeah. But Catch was the spot. I never got in there. I used to, like when I got to New York in 84 or whenever the fuck that was. When did I go? No.

It doesn't matter. 92. 89. Yeah. I couldn't No. Doesn't matter. 92, 89. Yeah, I couldn't. Like, I worked at Boston Club for Barry and what was left of the old improv. But I was always too proud, dude. I couldn't sit there and wait. Really? Yeah, because Louis would be like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Just wait around. We'll see what we can do. And I was like, I can't. I can't do it. I had friends who did it and paid off. Did you have a bit of a name by that point? No. No.

I mean, what was I? I hit the wall in L.A. and bottomed out. And then I went back to Boston. I got a job at the Coffee Connection in Harvard Square. Wow. You know? See, there's another thing you can fall back on. Yeah.

I can make an espresso. You can? Yeah. It was a pre-Starbucks espresso place. You get that? You're a line cook? Yeah. You got it going. 88. Yeah. I can do restaurant work. I can? Yeah, it was a pre-Starbucks espresso place. You get that? You're a line cook? Yeah, yeah.

You got it going. 88, yeah, I can do restaurant work. I'd like to think I could. But no, I had no name. I didn't have a name until like nine years ago. I had no name. I was kind of like- A man with no name.

Yeah, a man with no name. But eventually you got into New York, and you did all the shows like we all did, right? The evening of the improv. Yeah, I did the improv probably eight, nine times. Yeah, yeah. I did it traveling around. And when they started doing it from city to Yeah, I did an improv probably eight, nine times. Yeah, yeah. I did it traveling around. And when they started doing from city to city,

I did it quite a bit, yeah. And then those days, the, what was it, what was the... Comedy on the Road. No, the improvs around the country. Yeah, they started

popping up. So you'd go and do this one here and this one here and this one here. And pretty decent money. Sure, man. You know, there was

a strength for me. So you were not, you didn't, like you unlike some guys you you definitely did the road you went out and did it eventually but i had my own shows i said it for nine years and then after that i started doing more of the traveling and in those days there were good comedy clubs pretty much everywhere every city had you know whether it be in the 80s columbus ohio yeah yeah late 80s early 90s. Yeah. You could go string of things, one after another, after another, after another.

Right, right. Like Denver was a great scene. Oh, yeah. Comedy Works there was fantastic. It's great. Still great. Still great. Yes, it is, yeah.

It's crazy. And that's the one I particularly remember that was really good. Really good. The one down there. And a lot of stuff in Florida. A lot of stuff. Yeah. I have a hard time in Florida.

Really? Yeah. Like West Palm, you did those rooms? lot of stuff. Yeah, I have a hard time in Florida. Really? Yeah. Like, West Palm, you did those rooms? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I did. I bet there was 15 different clubs that you did down there. It was great, huh? Yeah.

I like the warmer weather. Go down there for a few weeks. Yeah, get away from the winter. Yeah. And you were always nice to us youngsters, you know what I mean? Yes, I was. Yes, I was. Did you know that?

Yeah. I mean, was it something, a policy you had? I was a guy that called himself the godfather of Boston comedy and I go, and after a few years I told him to stop doing it. I said, I'm the godfather

and you are not and to stop doing it. And he did. Because I actually would help people with their act even. Sit down. People would ask me to watch their act

and maybe, and I wouldn't give them a lot but give them a note here or say, well, you know, you might want to move this or say that. The less you tell someone, the better. Yeah, sure, sure.

Because they're going to remember two things. They're not going to remember 20. Yeah. And I did do time with that. Yeah. And I did a lot of the open mic stuff, and that was nice. And I like the fact that people remember that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah. I mean, I remember it. Because you were that, because there was a bunch of the guys that were, you know, not that accessible, really. Yes. Good word. You know, Sweeney's hit or miss, right? How are you?

And Lenny, just scary. Yeah, busy. I'm busy right now. Yeah, Kenny. Yeah. And Dennis. No, I don't. You know what I mean?

And George was always nice. George was nice, yeah. And Mike McDonald was totally intimidating. Really? Yeah, right. Like Mike McDonald. Nice guy when you get to know him. Right, right.

But you were always sort of like just, you know, you had a good vibe. You always killed. And you were helpful. You were helpful and supportive. That's a very nice thing. Well, good to remember. Put that on my tombstone. Yeah.

Well, I remember, like, I think you actually had protégés, really. I mean, there were guys that modeled themselves after you. Sure. I would say Kevin Knox. Well, Kevin was, yeah, the guy that he- He was in comedy, and he quit for years. Kevin Knox. Five or six years.

Knox-y. Yeah, and we always remained friends. And I got him back in again, and then he stayed in from that point on. But a lot of the guys, like Tom Carter and stuff, people like that. Tom Carter, yeah. I think my style, a lot of people looked at different things for one. Wendy Liebman is another one. Yes.

Never mind material. I'm not saying that they still give him a word. No, no, no. Right. It's just a style. To throw the asides. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Throw it aside. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a lot of guys I remember. Like, I didn't... Fuck, I remember I started with... Who was around? Whatever happened to, like, Robbie Prince?

He does a lot of cruise ships, too. Oh, he does? So he's still in the game? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's still doing well. And then Jim Loretta, he had a tragic end, right? Yeah, he's still around.

He is? He had some problems. Oh, yeah, yeah. And, like, and then Scytheword's gone, and Lazarus is gone, and I don't know. Cysa died on one of the ships, as a matter of fact. Yeah, I know. It got a bug, huh? Yeah, it was kind of an odd thing, very rare.

Were you guys friends? Yes. Yes. He was a funny guy. He was around a long time. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Getting sick on a ship is not good.

I get sick. I get food poisoning, but of course the ship's not going to admit that. Right. So I get airlifted off the ship and I'm in Roritan, Honduras. Oh my God.

That's the hospital I have to go to. I get there and nobody in the hospital spoke English except for the guy spackling the ceiling. I'm serious.

He became the interpreter to the doctor. The guy comes in with all these tools like he's going to cut. They wanted to take out my gallbladder. What?

They wanted to take out my appendix but it's already been taken out so they were disappointed. They just immediately wanted to take shit out? They wanted to take out my gallbladder. What? They wanted to take out my appendix, but it's already been taken out, so they were disappointed. They just immediately wanted to take shit out of it? They wanted to take out my spleen. It was the first thing they wanted. Then they wanted the gallbladder.

I think they thought I still needed a heart. I think they were going to leave that in. They really did. So I didn't sign anything. And they told me you have to sign. Through the spec, he says, you know, right, that you have to sign. I'm going, no, I'm not signing shit. They can take it.

And they did more did they were doing x-rays of my shoulder I said I've got food poisoning we're in the wrong region yeah yeah so what was it just to get money

from somebody well they finally had someone that had some insurance I guess and maybe they had guys that hadn't really done a lot of work

like just breakfast yeah yeah there you go I like it it was a living cadaver that's Yeah, yeah. There you go. I like it. It was a living cadaver. That's what it was. So when you go out, do you enjoy the water? I enjoy the beach, yeah.

I love walking the beaches. But like on the boats and stuff, what do you have? Oh, no. Yeah. What do you do to occupy yourself? I read prolifically. I read anything. Yeah?

Mostly menus. But I read a lot. Yeah? Yeah. And you've seen like 150 companies? Yeah. When I get any, I love going to places I haven't been doing, just going. I'm never on a tour, you know, an organized tour.

Just go off on your own. Yeah, yeah. You know, and I go to restaurants that mostly, you know, people where they don't speak English. Sure. As long as it looks busy. Yeah, yeah. It looks busy. That's important.

And I look around, I say, you know, all that. Oh, yeah. And I've found great restaurants that way. That's the best way. Just that's busy and pointed things. Yeah, important. And I look around and I said, you know, oh, that. Oh, yeah. And I've found great restaurants that way. That's the best way. That's busy and pointed things. Yeah. Yeah. I got two very long index fingers. Have you done, like, the Scandinavian, the Arctic tours as well? Sure, sure. Are those great?

Fantastic. Everything pretty? Fantastic. Yeah. And even Iceland. Two years ago, I did two months in Australia and New Zealand. I just stayed there. You know, I'd do a ship and go back to a hotel. And the next night, I did two months in Australia and New Zealand. I just stayed there. I'd do a ship and go back to a hotel. And the next night, I'd do a ship. Then I'd have two days off, then I'd do a ship.

So I really got a feel of Melbourne. Melbourne's my favorite city. Great city. It's like Boston, kind of, a little bit. I think so. A little bit. Except even more green, a lot of great parks. Yeah, yeah.

I liked it much better than Sydney. And New Zealand, I liked all of it. It was just gorgeous. I hear New Zealand's great. I've never been there. You mentioned Ireland. You should get to New Zealand. It's just terrific.

And then I did really Roro and Boroboro, Skimmy, Rotenga, and all that. You're doing gigs there or just all... No, working on ship. Oh, yeah. So you get off and look around. Yeah, all those places, yeah. And what's the next one you got? Now I'm doing just a lot.

It's kind of limited to the Caribbean, but I got one going to Hawaii. Alaska I love doing too. Alaska's one of my favorites. Yeah, yeah. So then what do you do? You fly? Fly to Vancouver usually or Seattle and then go up from there. Well, it sounds good, man.

Yeah, still enjoying it. That's it. And you've got kids, right? My kids are in their 40s now. Oh, wow. And I have a seven-year-old. Maddox is my grandson, who I'll be seeing tomorrow, as a matter of fact. He's out here?

He lives in San Rafael, yeah. Oh, so you're going up north a little bit? Yeah, I'm going over there for five or six days. I'm looking forward to seeing him. What do all your kids do? Are any of them in show business? Not at all. One's an environmental scientist.

My daughter, she works with the educational stuff out in San Rafael. And then my son is a caterer. My son is funny, but he's not a stand-up. And everybody's doing good. Everybody's doing, as far as I know. I've been away for a week. Don, it's great to see you. It's a thrill.

We almost got together a few times with this, except the venue didn't work. But this time it did. It all worked out. I'm so glad you're here, man. Jim Serpico worked it out for us. Yes, he did. He's running, he's taking, and the record that you just reissued, when was it recorded? We recorded it in, I think, 2011, but what happened when I did it at the Comedy Connection

that was up in Portland, and it's, you know, we remastered it now, and so it's a lot cleaner and put together, but I never even thought of really producing it. I ran off a couple of thousand copies, and I'd sell them basically out of the back of my car. After a show. After a show. But I never, I'm the worst businessman in the world. So Jim Serpico is helping me out now, and hopefully maybe a few more people will know about it. That's great.

Nice talking to you. Thanks for coming. This is a joy. Thank you so much. All right. This is a joy. Thank you so much. All right. All right. That was Don. Don Gavin.

Fucking Don Gavin. He's the guy, man. He had a lot of impact on a lot of people. It was great talking to him his album Live with a Manhattan is available in a lot of different places streaming, go look for that End Times Fun

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