WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1107 - Utkarsh Ambudkar

Episode Date: March 19, 2020

The world took notice of Utkarsh Ambudkar with his freestyle performance on the Oscar telecast but he was almost a classic cautionary character: The guy who blows his big break because of struggles with substance abuse. Utkarsh tells Marc about his early love of hip-hop, how rap battles and general swagger opened doors for him on Broadway and in Hollywood, and why he knew he had to sober up when he torpedoed his shot at a little musical called Hamilton. Utkarsh also talks about his friendship with Lin-Manuel Miranda, his hero worship of Ice Cube, and his scene-stealing turns in The Mindy Project, Pitch Perfect and Brittany Runs a Marathon. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace and SimpliSafe. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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stuff in the cabinet? Don't eat too much. Don't just sit and eat. Do some exercises. Take a walk. I hope that, call your friends. You know, you're right. I'm sorry you're going through this alone, but I just want you to know that a lot of us are here with you and that we're thinking about you and we're staying connected. We're trying to stay connected, at least stay engaged with something live, if you can, even if it's on TV or on your computer. Stay engaged with information. Don't drift. Isolation is bad enough when you don't have to do it for a lot of people, but when you have to do it, man, it's even worse. Anyways, I'm just reaching out to the lonely people out there, the people that have to ride this out by themselves. I hope you're taking care of yourselves. And also, look, I hope the people who have people in their lives,

I hope the people who have, you know, have people in their lives. Good luck with that, too. Good luck with that intimacy. Good luck with that level of being together. Huh? What a test. What a test. Got to keep it honest.

Can't hide now, can you, in the house? Not so easy. Day in, day out. How much do you love each other? How much do you? Huh? I guess you'll find out. Should I mention the guest? Sure. I have a great guest today. I love this guy. Utkarsh Umbadkar. You might know him from Britney Runs a Marathon, which is streaming on Amazon. He's

also in the upcoming action comedy Free Guy with Ryan Reynolds. He was on the Mindy Project, I believe. And hopefully you'll be able to see the Free Guy thing in the future whenever we can do things again. But you know what? A lot of stuff's ending up on the streaming. They're doing it on the streaming. Betty Gilpin's banned movie was unbanned, and now everyone went into isolation,

so it couldn't be in a movie theater. But The Hunt, I believe, will be available friday i think that was the case also my buddy burt kreischer he's got a stand-up special on it's on netflix uh me and burt going back to back with the releases i think um tom segura he's got one dropping after burt so in succession, me and then Bert and then Tom, weeks apart, coming at you with the full throttle comedy business. Everybody's been enjoying the end times fun. And I appreciate that. Jason Zinneman, who I reached out to publicly to take his critical eye towards the special.

It's a weird thing to do. I mean, I don't see it as kissing ass or as uh being solicitous i wanted a real critic to take that thing on to reckon with that special and i believe he is one i believe he's a he's a deep intellectual he's culturally well referenced he knows his shit he's uh he's a old school critic where you're not getting a review. He's going into it. And I think he really got it in that within the first paragraph or so. Quoting I'm quoting Jason Zinnerman from The New York Times. What stands out is his anchoring theme, a skepticism of unshakable belief of any kind, unquote.

And I think that was it i couldn't the great thing about smart critics about guys who really and women who really take it on and go all in intellectually and is that you know they can reveal something that i may not have seen but that is true about this special is that i knew that the whole thing was tethered to the opening bit about not knowing anything or what do we really know and what is belief. And that was the through line. That was it. And he saw it.

And I don't know that a lot of people got that. A lot of people are getting whatever they want to get out of it. But this thing is a whole piece, and that's the way I conceived of it. So I appreciated Zinneman doing that. And so thanks for that, Jason. Also, the other press has been great great and people's reactions have been great. I'm just thrilled that the special is landing so well with people. I'm saddened at the condition of the world that it is landing in,

though it is providing somewhat of a life buoy or a lifeline or a relief or whatever from what is we don't even know yet in this country that's the fucking thing is we don't know we're days away from knowing weeks max in terms of how bad this is going to get here i just i got an email here i'll read it to you this is an email from uh it subject line just says, news from Italy about COVID-19. Hi, Mark. I know you for your acting in the TV series Glow and Easy, and I like your work very much. Tonight, I saw your show, End Times Fun, and for the first time in several days, I laughed a lot. I'm not laughing so much these days because I live in Bergamo, a small town in the north of Italy that now is the epicenter of COVID-19 in Italy.

To give you the idea of the numbers of dead, in the local news, usually we have three pages of obituary, and today is 10 pages. Our hospitals are collapsing. A lot of doctors are ill. People are losing their jobs, and many friends and relatives are at home with fever. It's a mess. I didn't know about your podcast until tonight, but I've heard what you said in the last one about this situation and the necessity to take this seriously. And I want to thank you for that and also for making me laugh tonight. Being isolated, it's difficult. Within a couple of weeks, our lives are completely changed, and we are shocked and scared and outraged for many political reasons and we miss each other and we are in pain for elder people who die alone separated from the loved ones it's a terrible situation and it's global and we have to be informed and so thank you take care and sorry for the shitty english sarah thank you sarah and i'm

sorry going through that i'm sorry we're all going through that, but it sounds particularly awful. That is the head of the spear there of the coronavirus pandemic. But that is the barometer for what could and may very well happen here and continue happening. you may be getting despite the lack of leadership at the top, despite the only thing that seems to make Trump happy is to call it the Chinese virus. So there's some sort of nationalist spin on it. This is a human virus that is just engulfing the planet. And we can only hope for the best. I think everybody's doing what they can. States are doing what they can. People are doing what they can. And my heart goes out to people that many of us, I mean, I was just sick. I don't know if I had it or I didn't. Do you know if you have it or you don't? No, because it's far from easy to be tested. So the numbers on some level can never be trusted. We will never know efficient numbers because we're the most advanced country in the world. But we, for some reason, are not getting these tests to everybody or at least making them accessible. Why is that? What do you think? Who has anything invested in the numbers staying not quite right?

Look, folks, I don't want to be cynical. I want to tell you that I hope you're taking care of yourself. I don't know what you're doing. I can tell you what I've been doing. I can tell you. I know it got heavy there for a minute, but it's heavy. These are heavy times. I'll tell you. Just give me a second, all right? I'll tell you. So there's uplifting emails too, I guess. Isn't there? Here we go. Here's one. Got one for you this is uh just i guess closure in a way i read that honeymoon uh email the people who were in spain in the middle of the pandemic trying to keep it together hi mark thanks for reading our story on wtf we landed in atlanta monday to a slew of texts about it from friends and family certainly made us smile after 36 hours of travel

happy to report that we are now safe and sound and honeymoon quarantining at arcasa in new orleans wishing you and yours all the best love keith and lauren they made it they're still married amazing it's a real test folks hey and you know don't go crazy with the fucking i mean you can but for god's sakes let's not have a whole generation of plague babies okay we don't go crazy with the fucking. I mean, you can, but for God's sakes, let's not have a whole generation of plague babies, okay? We don't need it. We don't need it. There's enough people. We don't need the COVID generation.

Do we? Am I being negative? Do what you want. Have as many babies as you want. You know, who am I to judge? All right, so here's what I've been doing. I've been hiking. I've been hiking,

trying to get up there once or twice a week, going out. It's weird. I hike up this trail near my house, go up to the top, and I saw a guy walking down, regular guy, older than me, with a beard, dressed in jeans, just kind of bopping down the mountain, carrying a shovel. Always suspect, the guy alone with a shovel out in the woods or out on the hike. But it was the middle of the day and I couldn't quite figure it out. My brain tried to piece it together as I hiked up that mountain, listening to Modu Mokhtar jamming in my head, getting a little spiritual, getting a little tarig. And I didn't know what it was about. And I was walking down past all the lizards. And it's been raining a lot here in L.A., and that guy had taken upon himself, I do not believe he worked for the city, maybe he did, but it didn't look like it,

to sort of create new channels for the water so they didn't wash away the trails. Many of the trails have these kind of small canyons in them from water rushing down them because there's no foliage on them, so it naturally goes there, them from water rushing down them because there's no foliage on them. So it naturally goes there. And this guy was carving side channels out into the sort of foliage area and blocking the ones that are running along the trails or in the middle of the trails to stop the erosion. I don't know if that's just a good citizen. I don't know, but I'm glad I figured it out that he wasn't burying friends or family up there uh i called my parents call your parents my mom's doing okay she's uh hanging in there they're trying to stay on top of having

enough supplies apparently she called costco about toilet paper they said you got to get here early and you got to be online so that's going to give her boyfriend who's about 80 something to do go stand online at costco she also said out of all things that i should do uh out of nowhere she goes don't upset lynn who's my mother to know who i am who's my mother to know that when i'm holed up that i may be difficult right my dad's doing okay he doesn't seem to know entirely what's happening but uh maybe that's better off. Also, I've been watching some movies. I watched From Here to Eternity the other night. What a great film to watch.

I also watched a buddy of mine. I'm trying to get sober again, so I was trying to think of movies, sober movies, to recommend. I didn't want to recommend the sort of the Bill W. movie. There's a doc I haven't watched, but there's also an old TV movie with James Woods as Bill W and James Garner as Dr. Bob. But I always land on Changing Lanes. It's this movie from, I don't know, it's about 20 years old. It was with Ben Affleck and Samuel L. Jackson. And I love the movie.

I've watched it. I watch it like once a year. I watched it again last night. Lynn had not seen it. And I still the movie. I've watched it. I watch it like once a year. I watched it again last night. Lynn had not seen it. And I still like it. It's a bit much in terms of it gets you at the edge of your seat. And it's a little far-fetched on some levels. But I think a pretty good recovery movie.

It's not a movie about recovery. But it is a movie about wanting to do the right thing, doing the incredibly wrong thing, and then owning it. I like it, man. It's a good movie if you want to see Samuel L. Jackson just play a regular guy and not be over the top. Also, listening to music is good. Cooking is good. Doing a lot of freezing, a lot of cooking, because all you can do is think about food when you're sitting at home wondering if you're going to have enough food or is there still more food or should we cook some food that's the hobby making the food and putting it in your face i'm on instagram occasionally i go live on instagram if you want to follow me on instagram i'm at mark maron uh one word on

instagram that's the real me and okay this morning. I did a little of that or yesterday did a little of the live Instagram, but what do you, you know, it's like, look, it's just going to wear out, man. Celebrities being cute about the quarantine and about their hobbies during it. I don't know how long it's going to be before people with a little bit of a following or just crying for help. Maybe that's probably what they're doing now. But I mean, more literally, like, I'm in trouble here, man. I got my family locked in the room upstairs, and there's no work, and I can't get out. God.

Yeah. I wonder how long it's going to stay cute. But hoping for the best, you guys. But please try to do your part and stay out of circulation so the old folks don't die. So people who are vulnerable don't get this thing. So the hospitals don't get overloaded. But it's going to be weird for a while, clearly. All right.

So there's no guitar playing at the end of this episode because me and Utkarsh Umbudkar, he freestyle raps over me playing a little funky chord thing. It happens. And he's fucking good at it, man. I mean, I'm no connoisseur of rap, but pretty impressive, man. So that's something to look forward to at the end of this episode. And as I said earlier, you can see him in britney runs a marathon where he's hilarious in that it's streaming on amazon he's also in the upcoming action comedy free guy with ryan reynolds which hopefully you'll be able to see sometime in the future whenever we can do things again but now he's here with me talking to him just before everything got real crazy.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly.

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Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at tor at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. You were the first one to use the bathroom in the new studio really aside from me and i made a note to myself to get paper products which i did and then we we got it just in time you finished and i heard you wash the hands and i'm like i can't and i went out and i got the paper towels that i bought now they're in here but then there was no place to throw the used paper towel. I'd be, if you had a better guess, like a more famous, special, prestigious guess, I would feel guilty, but I don't think you have to.

You're doing me a solid here. Giving paper towels is like, I feel good. Well, yeah, what are you going to walk around with wet hands? It's terrible. And then you're not going to ask because you're thinking like, I don't want to be weird. Well, it's like a super, I just realized how intimate it is to like stand outside the bathroom

or be inside the bathroom while having that paper towel exchange. You're like, all right, this relative stranger. You heard me. Yeah. Well, we met at the Vanity Fair party. I complimented you, which is why I'm here, I think. I gave you a nice compliment.

But the odd thing is, it's like I know who you are because I saw that movie. Oh, Britney. Yeah, and I thought you were the you are because I saw that movie. Oh, Brittany. Yeah. And I thought you were the funniest part of the movie. You're great.

Solid. Great performance. And I enjoy the movie and I worked with Jillian and Michaela. And but you were hilarious. I had no idea who you were. And then all of a sudden

there you were. And then when you met, when I met you and then you told me that I was like, oh, I fucking know you. So I mean, yeah, I get a lot of, oh, I fucking know you. So, I mean, yeah. I get a lot of, oh, I fucking know you.

I get a lot of that. I'm not going to try and pronounce your name, but I'll remember your face. That's quite a name. Utkarsh M. Butkar. Utkarsh M. Butkar. M. Butkar, yeah. M. Butkar. I just realized this is the first time you've said my name.

M. Butkar. Dude, I've been thinking about it all day. I'm sorry for the stress that it's caused you. It's not causing me stress. Like I said to my, after I met you, I said, I told my producer, we should book this guy. And he's like, great. I said, wait till I can figure out how to say his name. Yeah, exactly.

And I was like, nope, next week. Udkarsh M. Boudkar. Perfect. Yeah, it's there. It's a mouthful. So you were on the Oscars doing a silly thing. How does that unfold? How was that room? So that room, have you been in that room, the Oscars? So it was my first time. There's several different levels of discomfort at play. How'd you get the gig? So I got the gig because I just finished a Broadway

run of this show called Freestyle Love Supreme. And that is an improvised rap comedy show. You're an improvisational rapper? I'm a freestyle rapper. You can do that? I can indeed. It would be fun if you played some guitar, I could rap over it. Really? Yeah, that'd be, I'd get to jam with Marc Maron. Are you kidding me? I'll do it. I think it's whack and ingenuine when people aren't as complimentary as they should be around people they admire. And I super duper admire you, bro. Thank you. I love your podcast.

I started doing a podcast because of you. Oh, really? What's that called? We need more podcasts. There's never, there's never. Oh, I quit. I was like, I cannot do this as well as mark maron i did it for like a year and a half had some cool guests and i was like this is going nowhere

all i want to do is listen to mark maron what was the what was the what was it called the it was called let's talk about me it was on the head gum network well you definitely are like doing you learned something from me yeah i was like i'm just gonna brand this i'm gonna just do maron but i'm gonna do it like no subtext whatever let's talk about me and the idea was i was gonna have people from my past come on and talk to me about their first impressions of our relationship and and how that went and how we can grow wow and i come to find that like nobody wants to talk shit about you or insult you to your face and i was like it just became like compliments and i was like no but what about that time and what about that time it's hard and i learned a lesson

about that recently what happened i sent the wrong text to somebody who was it i've done that so many times somebody kind of blew me off twice right and it was it was an accident happens but when i've done it it means i really don't give a fuck right so you know what i mean like i don't like it's not you don't give a fuck in that moment like in the macro maybe you you care about the relationship with that person or are you just saying like maybe maybe i i just think that twice do you know what i mean like you don't really want to do it maybe that's me yeah but anyway so's like, this guy is married to somebody in show business. And like, I was mad driving home and I text Lynn, like, you know, they're both of them

are shitty. And I sent that to him. Did he respond? I immediately realized what I did. I said, so I guess, you know, I really feel that. My point was, is that people are, they're polite. Yes. They and too polite yeah but it's not usually if somebody hates you you would know that but but like you know my

feelings were legit and but you know the proper human way to deal with that was like it's okay it happened sorry buddy i'll drive home even though i drove all the way to the restaurant i'm standing here like a fucking idiot but you know underneath that is like what the fuck dude i got a life i got a thing so then we he actually negotiated with me like you know in the sense that he's like i'm sorry you should have told me how you're feeling i could have handled it and i'm like look man i was just angry and you know your wife's not shitty it's just you i'm sorry that i threw her into the equation no they neither one of them are just i was just mad you know and then i realized like why do i say that why was i even texting that to lynn What's the point of that?

Because there's a mutual, there's like a connection that you get from mutual sort of disdain for people. Yeah, but she doesn't feel that way about him. So maybe she's talking you off the ledge or she's like, you're right, baby. It's just stupid. Yeah, but it's just like, you know, I'm just turning into my dad. I'm just like, that guy is sort of like, oh, fuck that guy. Yeah, when I see my dad in the mirror, I get very scared too. What's he like? He's he's you know he's chill uh he's he's a scientist he's a phd biochemist that's that's deep science it's super deep science he already has that science mind he's sort of an

introvert he doesn't talk he's not one to start a conversation yeah he's better now uh i think he was super stressed. I've learned a lot. I think we're both, after doing a thorough inventory, I've learned quite a bit about him. Are you sober, guy? Yeah, I'm sober a little while. So we learned that our parents did their best, right? They did something.

Yeah, I don't know. They didn't do anything with bad intentions. Yeah, exactly. Right. I don't know. They didn't do anything with bad intentions. Yeah, exactly. Right. I don't know about the best thing. Well, you know, we aspire to give them as much credit as possible now, especially after the colossal shit show that I put my family and friends through. Oh, that sounds exciting.

Oh, super, super great. So where'd you grow up? I grew up in Maryland. Yeah. Born in Baltimore and then grew up in the suburbs of Maryland. So the old man's like a biophysicist. Biochemist. A biochemist.

What's your mom do? She's also a biochemist. They work at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda. Oh, they still there? They still work there? Yeah. And what's it like under this president? Are they complaining about the situation?

Yeah, of course. My mom and dad, I think there's funding being cut. My mom, she yells into the cavern of Facebook as much as she can. But what would a job for your parents be? If they're working on something, what is that? It's the same job that it's been for 30 years. So my dad, chemotherapy, cancer cells become resistant to chemotherapy. He's trying to figure out the mechanism by which they become resistant to cancer treatment.

Yeah. Using like yeast and all this stuff. Also, if you hear Mark and I belch, it's because we are enjoying beautiful Topo Chico. We are. I've got a case of this in the fridge. So good. Nice tight bubbles my friend Dean turned me on to this and I don't really you know I don't walk into

too many things for too long but this is good it's a good I love it is burpee it's tough bubble it's all good so my dad does that and my mother works in the NID CR National Institute of Dental Research so when that's your dad's life's work is to figure out why cancer cells become resistant to chemotherapy. Yeah. And he's pretty well recognized and lauded for that. He's done some good work in that field. He's super.

He's a hard worker. But he's figured some shit out? I would say cancer. No. I would say he's chipping away at it. I mean, I always ask him, like, the joke is like, have you cured cancer yet? Yeah, of course. It's always the joke. He's like, are you number one on the call sheet yet i'm like all right touche wow um

but uh grew up in maryland and the parents sort of like the immigrant experience they came from india in 1980 what part of india my mother's from chennai which is south india if india is a triangle they're both from like the bottom of the triangle, the point. And my dad's from Maharashtra, a small city called Barsi. In Northern India? In South. It's South Central.

Are they both from Dosa, India or Curry, India? They are. My mom's from Dosa. My mom's from Dosa, India. And my dad is like from some hybrid. Definitely not Curry, India. He's from vegetarian India. Yeah, they're both from vegetarian India. Definitely not curry India. Yeah. He's from vegetarian India. Oh, okay.

Yeah, they're both from vegetarian India. For sure. Yeah. I was like, that's a very good way to put it. It simplifies things a lot for me, which I appreciate. I'm like, yeah, dog. Everything is, yeah, food.

I remember you had Randall Park on and you were like, we knew about Chinese food, but we don't know who makes it. Oh, yeah. I'm very food-centric. Where does it come from i know i think mindy kaling got offended i think i offended her terribly and i in a lot of ways i could see you offending lots of people yeah i could i could definitely see that i understand it you do yeah of course

you uh you i think the whole point slightly insensitive is that well the way that this works is if you're not honest how how can I be honest, right? Yeah. And I think some people come in, look, I know you. I'm a huge fan of yours and I'm happy to be here. Right. And I imagine some people sit in this chair like, I heard this was a popular podcast, but like-

Oh, yeah. I don't know what- Mindy was a while ago though and I think it was probably a bad idea. My insecurities also don't lie in this space like i love taking the piss i love comedy my insecurities are like the oscars yeah like being there we're gonna get to that apparently we got we got to reroute it so you're growing up oh see that you hear that yeah but i don't know if that was you or me it was me well it was it wasn't a burp though it was just a build-up yeah it was a baby it was a release

yeah it was like come on quite a bit it didn't take shape no it'll get there though we'll get some good ones i'm trying not to so you're in baltimore the good part you're obviously living you're not you know well no we were in the city like in the baltimore city i know but your parents had good jobs so the immigrant experience when did they come over here? They came- College? No, they came after they got their PhDs. So they did the whole thing.

I think it's called grad school. I don't even know. And then they got their PhDs. Are they medical doctors or just research doctors? No, research doctors, yeah. And then I was born in 83 and we had the ideal immigrant experience which is you start very in the inner city and you move to a suburb of said inner city and then now they're in a suburb of dc in a beautiful community and they're they do well now when how many siblings you got

only child really yep oh and you got all fucked up yeah i got all bets were on you yeah 100 you just you have a uh brother right yeah so you kind of just grow up wishing you had someone to just be like yo is it just me or are these two fucking crazy like is it just me it can't just be me that's interesting because no one to ask there's no one to sort of bounce shit up or no one to see how come you're not getting as fucked up as I am? Yeah, or just- How are you turning out okay? And if I had had a sibling,

they would have turned out okay. I imagine them being like- Yeah, if I had a sibling, they'd have been the favorite. Now, with other immigrants that I've spoken to who are children of immigrants, there's that pressure thing. Of course.

Is that a real thing for you? Like, do they want you to go into the nuanced, focused profession of biological research? Yeah, 100%. Doctor? Yeah, they were like, come on, man, just be a PhD. It's easy. A PhD, really? It's like, that's all they know.

Yeah. That's what gave them safety. But who, did your mom cook? My mom was- Let's get back to the food. So it was all vegetarian food growing up? No, she started cooking chicken, but like, she never ate it because she's a vegetarian. Vegetarian just by growing up in that religion?

I think by choice. I think she lost the taste for meat. So when I was in her stomach when she was pregnant, she would be eating Big Macs and Whoppers. I guess there was some- Oh, yeah, you get that. There was some promotion, right? Whopper beat the Big Mac. Big Mac beat the Whopper.

And both are good for pregnant ladies. And she would scarf and then shrimp fried rice, to speak of your Asian American knowledge. How do you know this? Because she would tell me. Oh. She was like, I ate a ton of hamburgers. Oh, so they were trying to understand how you turned out the way you did? Maybe.

She's like, you love Chinese food. It's because I ate that when you were in my belly. She grew up she like would wake up super early go to nih come home cook like she's a super she's a superhero like your grandparents in india yeah they're there still i have one grandmother who's 94 in india uh-huh and uh it's cool I know we're jumping around a lot but she just got to read I made because of that Oscars thing I made the front page in India and like all the papers which wasn't expected yeah and she got to she doesn't speak English but she got to sort of read an article about me in her mother tongue oh which is super cool man do you speak that tongue it's Marathi and no it I my dad very kindly says we didn't want to

overwhelm you by teaching you another language which is like a sweet way to say i think they thought i was dumb like they didn't want to confuse me with that and i wasn't like an exceptional child like some people are i don't know about you but like i'm not but but they could have brought you up speaking it if they wanted to yeah i, I think- It sounds more like one of those weird, I think that they probably wanted you to be American. Mm-hmm. I think assimilation was really important to them. And they should have given me an easier name. I think in retrospect, they might have given me a different name.

Utkar Shambutkar is like, I feel so bad for people when they hear it for the first time. Yeah. It really confuses the shit out of white people, Americans in general. And that's a lot, man. There's a lot of- There's a lot of sounds you're not used to putting together. Exactly.

And, but okay, but so what religion were they? So my mother was raised Hindu and my dad is- Hindu, that's what I was looking for. Jain, which is sort of the Orthodox Jew of Hinduism. Really? Oh yeah. Like it's very strict, No eating after sundown. No eating any meat.

No root vegetables. Very food-based, both of them. Yep, diet-based. My grandmother and my dad's mother praise. Was it vegetarian? Mm-hmm. That's the Hindu thing, right? Yep, yep.

Huh. But also, I mean, no, but Hindus, I think, Hindus eat meat in the north. Just no cows? Technically no cows, yeah. Right. That's the trip? That's the trip? Technically no cows, yeah. Right. That's the trip? That's the trip. No cows for, they're sacred.

But like, so the Hindu deities, the blue guy? There's several different colors of deities. The blue one is Shiva. Yeah. And then, oh, Krishna is also blue. Ganesh is a Hindu dude? He's a god. Ganesh is Shiva's son.

I like Ganesh. I do too. I have Ganesh's around. I have a tattoo right here on my forearm. Oh, that's great. What does Ganesh is Shiva's son. I like Ganesh. I do too. I have Ganesh's around. I have a tattoo right here on my forearm. That's great. What does Ganesh mean to you? Well, it's sort of like knowledge, prosperity, wealth. Great looking deity with the elephant head, many arms.

Great looking. He's cute, adorable. Oh, he's the best. Easily accessible to the Western world. Several Ganesh's in my life. I think one of them's at, where's my. I had a very colorful Ganesh. That's great. I have a mezuzah on my door.

Do you? Yeah, my house. Really? Yep. I got a mezuzah right there. You didn't put it there though. Absolutely not. But I respect it.

I've got an OM thing hanging next to the mezuzah. I got everything covered. I got rosary. The Ganesh I got at. Sorry, now I'm really going. I got rosary. The Ganesh I got at... Sorry, now I'm really going. The Ganesh I got at Bombay Spices over on Los Feliz.

Uh-huh. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, they've got the food there at the buffet, but then they've got a lot of Indian stuff. Yeah. And, you know, Indian colors are amazing. Even the shitty plastic things are very beautifully colorful we know how to color i got it i got a shitty plastic ganesh that's so beautiful yeah there's no beige no beige in

our culture it's just lit up man lit up that elephant-headed guy so there you are you're hanging out you're what you're you're getting into hip-hop what's that what's happened you're a hip hop guy. I am. I am. Isn't it interesting? Do you find that, because I talked to Jimmy O. Yang. Yeah, I love his stand up.

He's like huge hip hop. He grew up, that's how he learned about American culture. Yeah, I remember. I've seen all his stand up. For me, it was, you know, I grew up on pop music. Soul, Motown, R&B, same as you i know you yeah you guys all have a paul simon record we had a paul simon record we had graceland talking about the collective we of indian people uh my family okay because um no because you and ben schwartz said that every

jewish person has a paul simon record um i think i'm like quoting your podcast judging by the the millions of dollars paul simon has i'm sure it was expanded beyond jewish households yeah who were buying the paul simon we had a part in that as well yeah we support it yeah um but hip-hop started in like second or third grade and for me that those are like the quintessential years for me. That's when like the Chronic drops, Snoop Dogg, Doggy Style dropped, Cypress Hill. You're in second grade? Ice Cube, third grade. Third grade, that's what's soaking in? In like House of Pain.

Heavy stuff. Well, it was really like we didn't know it was heavy. It was pop music. Right. It was on the regular Top 40 radio. And around that same time, there was a feeling of like otherness you know it was like there was some maryland is pretty southern people don't really realize that but people still uh drive around with confederate flags on their trucks and and things like that and sort of some of the white kids

started calling me the n-word and the black kids were like well you're with us and i was like are you sure and they're like yeah what are you and i was like are you sure and they're like yeah what are you and i was like i'm indian they're like oh we don't know where the fuck that is but he called you the n-word so now you're with us that actually happened yeah that discussion basically like that sort of was like i i feel spiritually like being taken under someone's wing but i think it was a collective culture of just like you know he's he's brought you into our group now by way of oppression and prejudice. Yeah.

And so I sort of embraced that culture, as it were. You let the racist decide your future? I don't know. Yeah, I guess. And also, like, you know, you just come to find you're good at something. Yeah. I just had tape recorders always and i was always singing little melodies oh so you're saying that once you started hanging out with the black dudes

hey you're already you're only into you're already into the music i'm into the music i'm making one fucking you know redneck calls you the n-word and you're like i guess i'm gonna start singing now well i had like these dreams of like being like boys to men yeah singing and then i just kept going with it. And I don't know. It's funny in retrospect. Like, did I do it because I enjoyed it or because it got me attention? I don't know, man.

It's a real skill set. You know, my limited experience or my limited knowledge of hip hop is it's always impressive, you know, that there's a real context and there's a real skill set that has to be engaged. And there's a way to innovate and express yourself very specifically. I mean, you know, that there's a real context and there's a real skill set that has to be engaged and there's a way to innovate and express yourself very specifically. I mean, you know. Yeah. And it's fun. It's a party trick. It started as a party trick to talk about what's in the room. Yeah. Could you teach a class in freestyle? Absolutely. I think I could. I mean, you'd have to have rhythm and flow, but I can teach you Marin, staring, preparing,

Bobby McFerrin, you know, add an I-N-G, that's a Jaren. Like, I could teach you... Tricks. Tricks and skills, but sort of like if you can't get in the flow and tell the truth, it's the same thing that you do.

Yeah. All I do is I tell the truth, but I rhyme when I do it. Yeah, but doesn't sometimes the rhyme makes it a little sillier, a little easier to... It makes it easier. The truth of the moment. Well, I get away.

Yeah. But with rhyming when sometimes shit isn't that funny. Yeah. But I got the magic trick of the rhyme- Right. To cover it up. Yeah. Whereas like when, as you know, when you're doing standup, if your content isn't solid-

Yeah. Maybe you can get away with the delivery, get in a laugh, but you can't really like, I mean, there's so many comedians that actually only live on delivery and personality. Sure. It's part of it. But like, okay, so this was a way for you to express. Yeah.

It just sort of naturally happened. I'd make songs up about people. It's very immediate though. Like, you know, when you do that thing, when you freestyle with somebody else or you're going, doing those, you know, duels. Battle, battle. Thank you for calling it a duel, though. It makes it much more classy.

The battle. I want to duel you. That they're, you know, they're, yeah, you can, that's the amazing thing about rap in general, is just the amount of words and what can be expressed in the shortest amount of time. Yeah. And how you use it, right?

I mean, you can use it to self-aggrandize. You can use it for social justice. You can use it to party. I mean, you can use it in so many different ways. You can toast. You can emcee. You can control the mic. You can tell a story.

Ideally, you're telling a story. Yeah. Yeah. So I would think that the more personal, you know, those personal beats, and my recollection of raps that have been that, where you can really kind of set a scene. Have you ever been a fan of hip-hop?

Have you ever sort of... Well, I've listened to... There were different points in my life where, you know, the bigger artists, I'd get their records because it was sort of... And I was old, you know? It was not my childhood, certainly. But I certainly listened to a lot of Jay-Z, I listened to the first few Kanye records a lot. I listened to, I had a Ghetto Boys record, Cypress Hill record.

So you know, yeah, you understand. I listened to, I had the Snoop record, I had some Dre records, but they were usually the big records. They don't run very deep, but they were usually the big records. They don't run very deep. I'm listening to the hip stuff. I hear you. Yeah. And vice versa for me with like rock and those types of things, right?

Like I got like a Strokes album and I got a couple of Weezer albums and, you know, like I did my due diligence. Right. But the rap records, you've got 10 of the one guy. Yes, exactly. And you know the other guy that used to be in the band. And then, yeah. I don't have any like Rivers, Cuomo, B-sides, but I know they exist.

Yeah. Well, that's actually a fairly deep hole, that Weezer hole. Yeah, it is. It's a deep trench. Yeah, I've only got a couple Weezer records. I kind of spread it out. You know what I mean? Yeah, I hear you.

But I did like, i did love um i've actually got that uh what is it the the remix of the white album the gray album oh with jay-z yeah yeah uh danger mouse danger mouse yeah it's really cool are we doing am i part of like a double episode well no no no no really what do you mean we don't do those anymore you don't no i mean i don't think so it seems like we're going okay that's so cool yeah no it's not gonna be one of the situations i was telling i got everything i could at him came up a little short just i was telling my wife i was like i'm gonna be on a double lp this one i'm gonna be the first he's gonna talk for 15 i'm gonna go for 15 and then patrick stewart is gonna be the main guest no you're it buddy thanks. So when did it become a serious thing, the hip hop business?

In college, I would say. What were you going to college for? I went for acting. I did a BFA in drama. So you told your scientist parents that you're going to be an actor? Yeah. Yeah, I did. How'd that go?

It was not taken with a lot of confidence. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just to breeze through, doing well, making up songs, having fun, wanted to be a professional of confidence. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, just to breeze through. Doing well, making up songs, having fun, wanted to be a professional basketball player. That was my trajectory. That was it?

So not even a musician? Fuck all that. Were you a good ball player? I mean, I'll tell you yes. And I still can play on the weekends. And I can hold my own with people, you know. I'm a functional basketball player at 36. But no, there's no chance that i would have made it to the nba ever but everything i do now is like plan b because i

failed at my first dream which was to be in the nba huh that's how you see it i still hold on to it like a lost opportunity maybe you should work that out with a with an inventory i should i should yeah i resent the national basketball association i resent genetics um my part is i'm full of shit um but uh i uh i started i found theater in um in high school i had moved in eighth grade to a new high school and felt pretty by the move i think my parents just wanted to move to a better school district. They wanted to move closer to NIH. And I was feeling out of place, and I found theater, and I had an aptitude for that sort of attention.

Out of place, why? Because it was a nicer school, less integrated? Yeah, exactly. More polite people? Yeah, you sort of hit it right on the head. Where were your homeboys? Yeah, exactly. We went from like a nice

pair of sweatpants would get you in to like you need i mean at the time it was like tommy hill figure nautica a bunch of things that like the price to just show up looking like other people jumped to class a hundred percent right and like i showed up to school i remember on my first day in a michael jordan jersey yeah like this is the best thing I got. Yeah. This is the fanciest I get. Yeah. And just looking around and being like, I am out of my fucking element. There's no way I can compete with these people.

Yeah. And then plus you show up anywhere new. Like now I have a certain amount of grace about it. But with my name, it was always such a hard transition just to get people to address me. Do you have a nickname? There have been so many nicknames around the world.

What do you answer to? I answer to Utkarsh. And then my friends, for some reason, call me UTK. Yeah. Which is more syllables than my real name. Yeah. Sounds cool. Yeah.

So I take UTK. I'm like, all right. I mean, it makes me sound like I'm proficient in something. Ice Cube wouldn't call me UTK. I'm like, all right. I mean, it makes me sound like I'm proficient in something. Ice Cube wouldn't call me UTK. We did a barbershop movie together and he was like, man, I can't say your name. How do I say your name? I was like, just call me UTK. And he was like, no, that's too cool. He was like, you don't deserve a name like that. I was like, all right then, Mr. Cube. Thank you, Mr. Jackson. When did you work with Ice Cube?

Four or five years ago. Was that a big deal for you? Huge. Everything's a big deal for me. This is a huge fucking deal for me. But he's got to be a hero. Of course. I was on a set with Ice Cube, Common, Eve.

Nicki Minaj was there, but I'm not like, I didn't grow up in awe of her. But just like picking their brains constantly, like doing lyrics with them. Cedric the Entertainer, who I know you've had here. Yeah. Who's like one of the, and JB Smooth, who I don't know if you've had. I've had him, yeah.

Dude, Cedric and JB are two of the most like blackout, like lose your mind improvisers I've ever seen. Really? Of just like going for like take after take, minute after minute. And then you're like, Cedric, do that again. And he's like, I don't know what I did. It's brilliance at work.

Yeah, yeah. And just clowning each other, the stories that they would tell. But I'm just like peppering questions. Ice Cube always, I'm like, this is a little inside baseball, but I'm like, what happened with West Side Connection? How come you and Mac Tan aren't making music anymore?

What's going on? And like, he'd answer me and he'd be like's like well this went down and this is how I feel and I don't want to talk out of turn but like he would share this information with me and I'm like looking at the dude who founded rap as we know it yeah with just like you know crazy motherfucker name Ice Cube boom yeah nuclear that's the big bang of hip hop in many ways, right? Yeah. It's a second big bang. Right.

But I remember he calls me over. We're like in between takes, right? And I would go have a cigarette and just sort of sit by myself like, what the fuck am I doing here? And he calls me over and he's got this pill stereo, this Beats pill. Yeah. He's like, hey, man, come here. And I was like, they immediately start shaking right and fear is a big thing for me yeah just like i don't belong

here and i'm not gonna pretend that i do like a lot of people like fake it till you make it i'm like no dude i'm genuinely gonna be nervous shitting my pants always yeah so he brings me over and he plays me an entire unreleased ice cube album just him and me in front of his blacked out escalade yeah and he's like what do you think and he's just playing me track after track after because he knew you were a fan huge fan i let that be known i was like you gotta sign this for me you gotta do that like i'm not shy about if if i love someone's work. And if I don't, I'll say good luck and God bless you.

And I wish you all the best. So he chose you. He's like, this kid will give me an honest read. Oh, man. I was so excited. And I said to him, and I know I'm not cool. Like, I know I'm a nerd when it comes to this shit. And I said to him, I was like, you're never going to, my friends aren't going to believe this.

I was like, I know I'm supposed to be behaving cool i said this out loud i was like mr cube sir i was like i know i'm supposed to be cool right now but this is the coolest shit that's ever happened to me this is incredible and i can't stop shaking and i thank you he's just like he's like all right all right all right and he's still if i send him a text i'll be like hey ice it's a car i i you starred with me yeah in barbershop the next cut i was i pretty much stole the whole movie you might not remember me just hoping you have a good holiday and every time he's like man stop asking me if i remember you i remember you leave me alone same text every time same exact text but what did you think of the music? I loved it. It's vintage cube. And most of that-

Which record did it turn into? It turned into his last, the most recent record, which I can't remember the title of, but it came out early last year. Yeah. And it's got tracks called Kill the President on it. It's a very Ice Cube. Don't have no haters. Chemikiels.

He rhymes Chemikiels with peels. It's vintage ice. And like most of the kids today aren't going to love that. Really? Hip hop is totally different. What are they going to love? Well, hip hop is more like R&B now. Hip hop is sort of this lean, the drink leaned

out, drugged out. At least the sound of it. It's very like Bone Thugs-N- thugs in harmony everything is super tripolite it's like when i'm ripping the trip of the killing and everybody did that but i did it yeah and i got the how on a knees and i do it if i'm gonna show yeah and it's very um catchy i mean it sounds cool but it's not what i came up with so it doesn't hit me in my heart center you know what i mean like i don't feel moved by it there's no one doing that anymore sure like jay cole's rapping kendrick is rapping but nobody's hitting like that boom bap like that that shit that you're like makes you want to punch somebody in the throat like that

that's not happening no more no i want to and i'm not violent enough like i couldn't carry that i couldn't make like punch people in the throat. They do a background check and be like, you don't have the credibility for this. So you're in college and you're doing the theater thing. So I fall in love with theater in high school. I find that I have an aptitude for it. I'm doing it on a level and I'm improvising all the lines on stage. I don't know that you're not supposed to do it.

So like the first play I did was like a Shakespeare play and I'm improvising in and around the line. Was there no one directing the play? Yeah, but yes, Marian DiGiulio was her name. But like she said, you know, you're very good at this. And I was getting laughs and I was sort of drunk on the laughter. Never thought to do stand up? I've tried it twice and I started getting laughs and I was sort of drunk on the laughter. Never thought to do stand-up? I've tried it twice and I started too late.

I started after I had like booked a pilot and after I had done some commercials and some TV stuff and I realized what you do is exceptionally difficult. The bringer shows, I just didn't have the stomach for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, this is a means to getting a TV deal. it's not something i want to do every night oh okay so i didn't feel like you it wasn't your longing for it no like on the drive here like i had instrumental beats on and i rapped the whole 20 25 minute drive here like i love that instrumental beats that means just no no raps oh right just instrumentals

yeah just so you could do it yeah exactly just so i can keep the muscle sharp okay but i'm not going to be like writing jokes the way i imagine you do or seinfeld does or even eddie murphy's probably even though he hasn't done a special in 35 years well my my process is like yours i go on stage and improvise yeah which is wild because again in that bren schwartz is a buddy of mine and in that interview you said that improv terrifies you but then the whole sword of trust movie was improvised right right well it's but but there's a difference in kind of emotionally there's a difference for me there i know what improvisers do.

And when you've got a muscle to get laughs, improvising, you know, with other people, you know, to be sort of giving in that way and to, to work like that. Most of my improvising comedically is done with myself and an audience, you know, moving through ideas. Of course. So I create that conversation. The conversation with other people, my fear on Sort of Trust was from the beginning, I told Lynn after three days, I said, you know, a lot of these people are very broad improvisers that can, you know, drop in and out of these, you know, these bits. Bits and characters. And I'm just going to end up being the straight guy here if we don't get people into some real groove.

So my groove is always going to be kind of real. I'm not going to be up being the straight guy here if we don't get people into some real groove. So my groove is always going to be kind of real. I'm not going to be like, oh, here we go. I'm talking like this. Yeah. So I always associate the Schwartzen, Del Closien, that trip as being Second City, as being proficient in being able to drop into fairly convincing comedic characters. Yeah, Schwartz is like a master at that shit. Yeah. But the sort of trust stuff and the improvising that you're talking about, to me, is infinitely more interesting.

To be able to improvise with given stakes, stay grounded, be rooted in reality. That I can do. Yeah, you do it really well. I mean, that's something with the freestyle love supreme show with the freestyle rap yeah it's a comedy show right but the most special parts for me where it opens up and it becomes something other than where like the uh opportunity for like real truthful expression yeah which is like kind of what I think the ethos of like this podcast is like you're you're one of these people that I look at as somebody who appreciates seeks and sort of really like relishes in the dark truth like sort of the underbelly. Yeah, you like going under the boat and seeing what the hell's like grown on it over the years.

Sure. But like when you'd be amazed at how many boats have similar growths under them i yeah i imagine i mean you live in it's glendale there's no but i know but i mean yeah in general talking to people the menu of you know sort of you know transgression or or life choices that that beat people up yeah it's it's finite really well yeah it's either like i was too selfish here i burned the bridge there and fucking killed that guy yeah yeah it's like i couldn. Well, yeah, it's either like, I was too selfish here, I burned the bridge there. And fucking killed that guy there. Yeah, it's like, I couldn't-

Threw up on that guy there. Yeah, my dad did this, and then I couldn't show up on time. It's like- And that's why I live in the street. Yeah, basically. By choice. But, yeah, when I'm rapping,

and I can really talk about things that sort of transcend the idea of humor, whether it's sobriety or the South Asian American experience or sort of what it's like to feel other mental health, like people dealing with anxiety. But I'm doing it in the moment. It's totally improvised. Yeah, yeah. But it's your reality mentally and in life. That shit's exciting. Yeah, that's very exciting. It's very exciting because a lot of times, like you said, I mean, it's going to land a certain way.

Like I'm doing straight up stand up and some of this shit, I know it's going to land weird and people aren't going to know what to do with it or process it. And the expectation is to process it through comedy or to have the experience of being entertained or laughing. But I've done many bits in my life where people are just sort of like i don't know what to do yeah and which is a cool feeling to to make somebody feel that way is pretty i it tickles me it does me too but say but yeah i over time i've i realized when those are and i'm like all right let's let's cleanse the palate a little bit right lighten it up lighten it up. Right, right, right, right. I'm sorry, guys. I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm sorry.

Let's pull out and regroup. Birds. You're like, oh, birds, those wings. They're little dinosaurs. Who would have thought? Yeah. Now back to my father. Yeah.

But so you're riffing the Shakespeare, but like- Yeah, and then I tell my parents I want to act. I want to go to college to act, and they go, the only Indian- Oh, so the Shakespeare riffing was in high school. High school. And then I go to- That's why the director didn't get on you about it. Exactly.

Yeah. But I see that I have an aptitude for it, and I think people respond to it, and I go, Mom, Dad, I want to do this for my life. And they go, the only Indian on TV is Apu on The Sim simpsons and he's a fucking cartoon voiced by a white guy so what makes you hen gazer who now is my good friend but like uh you know brock meyer with him that's done right i don't know actually you should fucking text him be like hey man what the fuck um i know they did seasons three and four i'm not sure oh But he's like a wildly talented guy. Oh, yeah.

And a great teacher as well. Open to like questions. I like asking questions. Yeah. And it's nice when people answer. Mm-hmm. And he's one of them. But-

Did you take him to task for Apu? Yeah. Yeah. We had a lot of conversations about that. Oh, yeah? I mean, I ended up being in this documentary called The Problem with Apu. Oh, yeah, I remember.

That my friend Hari Kondabolu made. I know Hari, I just was texting with him. Yeah, he's an amazing stand-up. He's one of my favorites. He approached me. Really? Before he started. Like, he just is sort of like strangely intense,

you know, very uncomfortable, seemingly angry dude. He's got that anger. But he came up to me and it was in, I don't know, I remember if I feel like we're kindred spirits and I represented something to him early on. And I know we've talked about it. I can't remember if I've had him on a full episode or he was just on a live one. If I haven't had him on a full episode, I probably should.

But I feel like he was just on a live one. He's brilliant. Yeah. But we've always had this thing. You guys have a similar shade about you from what I know of you from your work. And, you know, he came up to me and I remember he asked me about stand-up and what he should do and whether he should do it. We had like a conversation at the Comedy Cellar and there was sort of this, I was there at the beginning of that guy. And then like, I don't know what's happened over time.

I think we're okay. He just texted me because he's producing. I think that Apu thing was really ultimately, I don't know if trauma is the right word, but it certainly wasn't easy for him. He caught a lot of negativity from a lot of people for trying to shed light on how South Asians have been seen, at least in Hollywood. Yeah. And, dude, there's so many people listening to this podcast right now who just turned it off, who are like, I can't hear another goddamn thing about fucking diversity and equality. I think you're misjudging my audience. Oh, I hope so. I hope you guys are still here.

But Hurry wanted to shed light on that. And the character of Apu was sort of the through line or the entryway into that larger conversation. Hank kind of got caught as collateral damage as a result of that because he voices Apu. And I remember when we were shooting Brockmire, I was like, oh shit, I was in this dock and it shit all

over this guy. And I absolutely cannot tell him while we're working together that that's the case. Because... What, he didn't see it? He hadn't seen it yet. Oh, it wasn't out yet? No, it hadn't come out yet. Oh. Good call. See what you learned? I was like, let me just work with this guy

and learn as much as I can. He's the most prepared actor I've ever worked with. Oh, he's a very anal dude, man. He is very detail-oriented. Okay, that's a nice way to put it. And then afterwards, I shot him an email. I was like, Hank, working with you was a true gift. And it was.

I learned so much from him. And I just need to let you know that I'm in this doc called Problem with Apu and I don't say kind things about the character. I'm very honest about how I feel about it which is,

you know, I think it's set. It certainly was the bane of my, one of the banes. It was between that and Temple of Doom. Yeah. Childhood was difficult.

Yeah. As far as bullying was concerned. There was some very low-hanging fruit for people to reach for. Sure, yeah. Like, you eat monkey brains and you got slushies. Brr-brr-brr-brr-brr.

Yeah. That was it. It was it, and I was like, oh, sick burn. But that's sort of the... You have everything else. I guess it's sort of the benefit of not being a broader stereotype

is that there was sort of a hackneyed nature to the limited oeuvre of insulting Southeast Asians. Hey, curry boy. Yeah. I'm like, it's true. Well, I mean, I bet you there's a lot more in England. Oh, yeah.

For sure. Every country, every immigrant experience is country-based in the sense that like UK Indians and South Asian Americans- They've been there longer and there's a history of colonialism yeah it's a whole different ball game oh for sure man here we're you know there's different conversations happening in america that you know we are not necessarily a part of we i gotta have him on i only i had him on i had him on a live one in portland he's brilliant truly look you don't gotta tell me it's just like he sort of annoyed me because we're similar.

I know how that feels. I know how that feels. So- Hold on. I'm going to tell him right now. Oh, okay. I'm talking- Oh, now I got to spell your fucking name.

U-T-K-A-R-S-H. S-H. What if like everywhere you went, people were like, Merce? Merce? And you were like, Mark. What? Ma-merch. Maersk.

No, it's Mark. It's just how it's spelled. I'll say. I don't get it. Can't believe you haven't been on. Been on for a whole one. He's going to be like, I love that guy. And you're right.

Right. So what were we doing? Oh, we're talking about Apu. We were talking about Apu, Azaria. Parents are like, you shouldn't do that. All right, that's it. I ended up auditioning for all the schools. I think my dad, you know, for being a scientist, he chased that.

He had a passion for it. And so I think he appreciated it. I did the college thing. He appreciated your- The passion. That's good. Sort of like the idea that this kid's going for something. Right.

They're just afraid. They're like, we came to the US so you could be what? That's right. It's always, usually, if it's not resentment, which is rare, it's just sort of like, we're not going to feed you forever. Also, we will feed you forever. Why don't you just, because they're Indian, why don't you just live in the basement and not have to go through the pain of the failure that is sure to you know befall you

yeah he just said utkarsh is wonderful oh i told you but see he's a guy that uses that word do you use that word yeah um would you use that in a rap no because it doesn't rhyme well right but it's also like what kind of word is that yeah wonderful no i mean it's just sort of like that's wonderful it's like it makes me uncomfortable to say it but it's i'm glad he said it he said one of these days yeah we say wonderful i say wonderful you do what a wonderful thing to say oh wow yeah well nice good for you my wife used a word the other day that i've never heard spoken she smelled something and she said oh that is repug repugnant. That's good. And I started laughing because I'd never heard it said out loud.

That's a good rap word. I thought it was so funny. You could use that word. Yeah. Repugnant. Dungeon. Drugged in. Anyway.

But is your wife Indian? She's Kiwi. She's from New Zealand. She's half Samoan and half European. European, just general European. She's like, oh, that's repugnant. I was like, oh my God, you sound amazing. That's great.

You love her. All right, so you apply to all the schools? Apply to all the schools, get into NYU, start the college acting world, that life, do some plays, find that rapping is what feels good, and I start studying it like it's a job. So after the theater, so you do some plays you're acting but you you land on rap i land on rap dude because everything

in school like shanley ibsen checkoff yeah all of these roles are written for white white people even just the way you said that i thought there was was going to be a rap there. Yeah. Shanley, Ibsen, check off. Yeah, I couldn't get that because my skin ain't soft. Oh, yeah. Too full of melanin to play any of those gentlemen. You've never said that before? Melanin and gentlemen, Maryland. Yeah, elephant, eloquent.

Okay. Enveloping. That's part of your toolbox. Yeah, that's a big part. Those triple letter rhymes for melanin are way at the top of the toolbox. They're right in there. It's the hammer and nail for me. I got it.

It's like, yeah. It's the thread. It's basically, yeah, exactly. It's pretty much go-to. So, yeah, okay. All right. So, I get it. I get it.

You were not represented, and you didn't necessarily want to go the experimental route and be the Indian guy in the Ibsen play. No, and they wouldn't have let me. Really? That's the thing. I remember having arguments of being like, why can't I do Chekhov? Why can't I do- Really?

The Seagull. What kind of fucking school is that? Because they're Russian people. What kind of school is that? They're written for Russian. I'm like, well, what about the place for Indian people? And there's a play called like The Perfect Ganesh. And I was like, I don't wanna play fucking Ganesh.

I just wanna play what you get to play. I wanna do Lonergan and I wanna do Boghossian. And they wouldn't do it? I mean, there was arguments about it. Wow, and this is with who? The faculty? Faculty, students, yeah. What the fuck?

So I show up crazy i mean school i i love the vocal training i got the movement training the people that i met there are some of the most brilliant people that are still working today you know i was in cyphers that's where you rap in a circle i was in cyphers with donald glover and i wrote a play that zoe lister jones they went to school you zoe-Jones, you know, I wrote this hip-hop play and she was one of the characters in it. I remember. Super cool.

So he's your crew? Donald Glover was the dude if I saw at a party, I got scared because I knew he could rap his ass off. Yeah. And I knew we would end up

in a circle together and I was going to have to fucking hear somebody who was as good, if not, to be honest, better than me. Yeah. And he was clear headed and clear eyed at the time. He was an RA.

He was a resident advisor. I went over to his dorm room to record a track together and I like rolled up a blunt. And he was like, you can't smoke that here. I'm an RA. Yeah. So stupid. I like walked around Washington Square Park in 2003 smoking weed. Highly illegal at the time.

And then I went up and I did this rap. I was like, I'm just going to freestyle. Like if I could go back in time to that moment, I would have written a proper rap. Wait, where'd you go to college? I went to NYU. Oh, so you were at the Tisch School? I went to Tisch, yeah. And they wouldn't let you play Ibsen parts?

You know, it was just like, it just didn't. All right. Yeah. And it's preschool too. Like you're in right yeah and it's preschool too like you're in acting school and someone's like okay we're all gonna pretend we're cold and i looked around and i was like oh lord i'm like in kindergarten yeah i'm in preschool for a hundred and god knows how many thousand dollars a year so who else was in in the in the school with you they're all still my good friends um mostly they're writers and actors now.

D.R. Kilpatrick. Out here? Mm-hmm. She writes on The Last O.G. and she has a run this season. Miles O'Ryan Feldsad, who's a writer and a showrunner. He just did Deadly Class.

Jamie King, who wrote on Jessica Jones. They're all still my close friends. Yeah. Malcolm Barrett, who's just on Timeless, and he's always working. Wade Elaine Marcus, whose mother, Stephanie Elaine, produced the Oscars. So that's how you got the opening to the Oscars.

Stephanie Elaine knows me since I'm 18, 19. Her son, Wade, who's a phenomenal actor, musician, writer. We've been in groups together and hip-hop theater programs and we went to west africa and taught hip-hop theater i mean he and i are i mean i don't have brothers and sisters so there's chosen family yeah so he's like my bro um and she hit me up and she was like we want you to write the opening number for the osc. And I was like, uh, what? I've never done that. Sure, why not? And she was like, we got Janelle Monae.

So I was like, okay, I don't think Janelle Monae is going to want my input. She's a freaking legend. She's like the next iteration of Prince. Yeah. So it was real quiet. I went off and did a movie with Jillian in Boston called Godmothereded we're about

to wrap on that jillian bell yep jillian bell uh-huh you your co-worker your fellow co-worker and um and then i got this call and they were like we want you to rap at the oscars we want you to do a mid-show recap so pressure's off no opening number i don't have to write the opening number but i do have to perform at the oscars mid-show for a bunch of people who uh i know i'm not going to feel comfortable around like mainly because they're super famous and i've already established how much of a fucking fan boy i am um i have no chill around people that i admire also and you have been around people like this but the level of wealth in the room and the way people act when they got fuck you money when they got like fuck my like my kids can say fuck you money fuck you money for generations yeah like I got grandchildren fuck you money yeah like I could cryogenically freeze myself for fun like i could

go to space just to go yeah like that kind of shit yeah like being in rooms like that yeah it's pretty intimidating and also it just feels kind of uncomfortable yeah and then they try to act like regular people like waiting on the bathroom and like rita wilson's there and i'm like you're probably the nicest person here i have have to go on stage. Can I please go to the bathroom? Like, and her being like, yes, of course. But like Pacino's in the other stall. And you're like, what's happening right now? I have to fucking rap for these people.

Was he going, oh, oh. Kind of. Yeah, he makes a lot of noises. Oh, yeah. And you love every single one of them. You're like, oh, my God. He's fucking, he's grunting. Here we go.

He's doing Pacino. Pacino. Oh, yeah. It's like, oh my God. He's fucking, he's grunting. Here we go. He's doing Pacino. Pacino. Oh yeah. It's like, dude, that's a great Pacino impression that you're doing. He's like, it's me. And then like walking out on stage, it's definitely like the scariest thing that I've done that I know I can do. It's a weird lonely island up there for a minute.

Yeah. Because you also know that they're half paying attention and that it's a very strange situation and you you know what i and i'm no good at them but you realize like all i'm performing for is the camera and that that you know that's really what it's going to come down to yeah and like i'd prepared i'd spent a week sort of figuring out what the content would be um so that I could plug in winners. Like also the network wouldn't let me freestyle. I was like, I'm going to make it up. They're like, no, no, no, you're not.

We're going to say it's made up and you're going to be prepared, which actually helped me out because I got to learn it like a rat. Oh yeah, because yeah, well, dude, it's like I appreciate that spirit and I've done that before. Yeah.

But if you would have stuck by that and they would have let you, you would have fucked yourself. I think so, too. You would have been too nervous to pull it off. I was terrified. Am I wrong? Not at all. You're 100% right. My voice kept telling me the little guy in my head that likes to think of himself as the real, is like, you're going to fuck this up.

Like, you are too scared. You have an ulcer. You have an ulcer? No. But like, you're giving yourself an ulcer. You're going to diarrhea your pants. You're going to fucking lock up. Do you do that?

Shit my pants? Yeah. No, but like, I did have like violent diarrhea for the week. Before? Leading up to it. Yeah, my stomach. Yeah, my reptile brain doesn't know that I'm just going to go rap. Right, but I mean, but in general, before you go on stage, you're a diarrhea guy?

Yeah, I get nauseous. I mean, I give a fuck. I think I probably care too much about it. No, but that's the way, it's just, but I get it, but I care too, but I'm never a diarrhea guy. No, my belly, everything, my emotions go straight to my tum-tum. I go to my chest. i go my chest my chest tightens up that happens for me too oh you're full range full thing man full beta blocker beta blocker necessity blocker never worked for me no they work for you they do i mean in my mind

they do what you mean just before you go on uh half hour yeah exactly pop in that propanolol and just hope for the best so you're in college and how do you start working? You start a group. You don't call them a band. No, what I did was I started like a hip hop theater program at NYU. But had that existed? Is there such a thing as hip hop theater? No, my professor, Daniel Banks and a guy named Joby Earl and Robbie Sublett. No, my professor, Daniel Banks, and a guy named Joby Earl and Robbie Sublett. And I basically just birthed this thing because I was he was doing this class where we had to read all these books. And he was like, this is hip hop theater.

But all it was was fucking books. And I kept ditching class to go right. What kind of books? What does that mean? I mean, like books by like Ngugi Wathiong about like ritualistic theater. like um in googie wa thiong about like ritualistic theater and i was like this is amazing that you on an academic level want to bring this to my brain but my brain wants to fucking spit i want to rap and i want to write and perform and you need to provide a space we need to provide a space for that so we did we started a practicum did a show and then summer before senior practicum, did a show. And then summer before senior- A practicum?

Yeah, it's like basically you just go- You gotta get okayed? Yeah, exactly. Right. Just to fast forward, summer before senior year, I took this on-camera acting class. It was like an NYU summer program. And you're meant to meet these casting agents and people every week.

And at this point, I was like, fuck acting. I'm done. I ate way too many shrooms in college. My brain is fried. Shrooms was your thing? Everything. Weed, shrooms, not so much booze in college because I was underage. But I remember going to a fish show and not getting in.

But there was acid. So I remember tripping balls in like howard stern's basement which is just something that happens when you go to nyu what are we doing in howard stern's base his daughter and i were in acting school together she's lovely emily is like the coolest um i probably i don't know if i was supposed to share that but hey um well you can decide anyway i just was sort of done with it and uh i remember the first week i went into this agent and she was like you got to read this copy and it was like listerine or chewing gum or something like that and i was like oh listerine you should take listerine it'll keep your breath fucking

fresh whatever yeah and she was like you can't say fuck in an audition and i don't know where i just had so much fuck it in me and i was like listen i don't give a shit about this i just did three years of acting school i know that you want diversity like i i'm indian you can sell that like i can help you i can make money doing this and you can make money but i'm gonna be a rapper and a spoken word artist that's what i do and i handed her a shitty flyer for my battle at sinson on that monday and i was like you can come see me here and if you want to work together great but like i don't need to do this i don't know what i was just i was i don't know i don't know because I'm a pretty polite person now, but that's like, there was just so much, like that arrogance of youth, that cockiness,

that I'm going to be. Yeah. Like it's been my job to think of myself on the highest level and to have the utmost confidence and ego in myself. And then it's been life's job to fucking humiliate me into having some sort of sense of humility and being humble. So I'm like, I'm the greatest. And life is like, nah, bro.

And we sort of have this back and forth. Yeah, I have the same. Yeah. Yeah. So did she come? This agent signed me the next day. Did she come to the battle? Yeah, she ended up coming, but her eyes went wide.

She was like, you rap and you do spoken word? And I i was like this is not going the way i thought it would i was signed within 48 hours and within like a week i was doing my first off-broadway show which was a hip-hop theater show it was like a spoken word piece mostly done for youth called history of the word so that so hip-hop theater existed it did it had started with the hip-hop theater festival that camilla forbes and this guy named clyde had started a few years earlier my first professional gig was assistant directing a show that was written by chadwick bozeman who ended up becoming the black panther yeah um we did that in dc at howard university at the festival i think in 04 in any case i start doing commercials i start doing these plays i'm battling i'm doing pretty well on the battle circuit you're making records

i'm making a few records but um not really because i'm spending too much time kind of getting fucked up and then sort of enjoying the life booze now booze yeah because if you want to battle you got a bottle of vodka and a hundred dollar bill yeah 40 ounces yeah just doing that and just being like coasting on potential in new york in new york yeah and being like i'm gonna be the greatest when you're 23 22 you're like it's inevitable yeah and then you hit 30 31 and people are like hey man all that potential doesn't mean shit like are you gonna do So you dicked around for that long, but you were doing shit, right? You were directing, you were teaching. Yeah, and just like smoking weed every day. But did you get involved with Lin-Manuel Miranda?

So out of history of the word, that first job, a producer named Oren Wolf introduced me to Lin and the guys, Anthony Shock, Chris Jackson, Tommy Kail, Arthur and Bill. And I joined Freestyle Love Supreme when I was 21. That's his thing. Yeah. Or 22 years old and started performing with them. That's like 15 years ago. And, you know, we just sort of culminated this first, I guess, novel in the series with a broadway run that story has ended nicely and a new one is beginning but what do you mean so that it finally went to broadway yeah like we got to broadway these motherfuckers did like in the heights and hamilton and tommy did fossy verdone and lynn obviously is lynn um and we got to go to Broadway. And I just got to do like 200 shows on Broadway and meet Patrick Stewart for rap, bro. Like I got to freestyle rap.

Every night was freestyle? Yeah, every single night is a totally different show. With no context? Zero context. It's just fucking start and go. How many people? On stage? Yeah.

Three MCs, a beatboxer, and two keyboardists so seven how'd it go sold out made their money back got to meet nick lachey of 98 degrees yeah very big deal okay padma lakshmi came through hari came through asif manvi um patrick stew Ian McKellen, Helen Mirren. Opening night was so cool. It was like Black Thought, Mos Def, Ryan Reynolds, Ira Glass, Alan Cummings, Josh Groban, Katie Couric. And you're like, what the fuck are all you doing here? For this, it's that kind of show. It just brings-

New Yorkers. New Yorkers, exactly exactly but it can also just bring a bevy of different people sure celebrity's weird celebrity is very strange yeah they can't hang yeah they don't they they you know it's like they can only hang out with each other sometimes and they all go to the same place at the same time yeah they're not necessarily connected but that seems but new york's different like that but all of those people i think at least ira and katie and uh i imagine a couple of the other people are New Yorkers. Yeah, but you talk to so many of them.

Do you feel intimidated? Like when you're sitting with Leonardo DiCaprio and Brad Pitt and your mic stops working, are you like? No, I'm more mad that I'm not going to get something. Do you know what I mean? I used to be more intimidated. I'm more intimidated in my in in here by musicians you know older musicians who you know who have really changed my life somehow and there have

been some actors who I found intimidating but when I really think about it you know overwhelmed is more the the feeling not like you know intimidated I'm not intimidated but you're sort of like whoa this is a Overwhelmed is more the feeling, not like intimidated. I'm not intimidated, but you're sort of like, whoa, this is a special person. Right. And you have to reckon with the special person. Like some people, even if it's as simple as Mandy Moore, some people just, you see them walking up and you're like, holy shit.

She has a glow about her right and then like i see letterman you know that brings a lot of my life my baggage it's not baggage but i've always loved letterman but he comes up and i'm like this is you know this is a fucking real thing man this is david letterman but i'm not intimidated you know because they're flesh and blood and you feel that pretty quickly and i've become very attuned to that yeah well you're yeah that's the thing that i admire about you is you you kind of cut through that real quick by sort of opening yourself up and it sort of gives other people um permission to be vulnerable as well it's a humanizing thing you know they are all just people and some of them are hiding more than others right some of them have a a uh you know a deeper stick well that's the i mean that's a skill i think i learned from you is just being like yo dude this is what it is

yeah this is where my fears come from this is what i'm angry about this is what i'm not i'm not i don't have as much experience as you in life so i don't think i'm as uh proficient in it as you are yeah uh but uh it's certainly something that helps. Yeah. In just daily conversation. It can, yeah. And I don't talk to enough people like outside of in the world.

But you know, it's, but go ahead. Like, are you a vulnerable person in your day-to-day life? Yeah. But like, you know, you got to know me. Right, right, right. Like, you know, if you come over, I don't really know you.

I'd be like, hey, buddy, what's up? You know, you know. Yeah, I definitely got a hey, buddy, what's up when I walked in, which is totally expected. I was not expecting anything more than that. I was like, whoa, he's letting me in his house. He, like, offered me something to drink. I was like, this is going well. Yeah.

No, no, but, I mean, people, the people that know me, a lot of people who listen to the show, some they can play me they you know they can sort of like they know that there's a certain amount of of fronting going on in terms of my yeah how am i gonna open up yeah they're you know but some people can see right through my shit you know and but generally you know i i feel it out and i'm willing is what it is you know do you think that's um a product of being sober at all how long are you sober 20 years yeah and change so you're like you were you've been sober long enough to like be over it get back into it be done with it again yeah i'm always pretty sober like i'm a little i've been a little cranky a little dry lately but uh i'm always pretty sober yeah that definitely had something to do with it but it was part of the process i mean if you really look at the foundations of AA, it's one alcoholic talking to another to get the other one of them, they get

out of their own heads if they talk to somebody else or try to help somebody else. And that's really the foundation of the podcast. So the fundamentals of this thing were really me making amends with people and me getting out of my own head to a certain degree to learn how to be empathetic for other people which have evolved on these mics i think uh that's probably what resonates with me is sort of that the idea of sort of accepting who you are and sharing that with other people is really special um it certainly has helped me like getting sober changed my whole fucking now when did that happen how bad did it get? And how'd you hit the wall? What was the bottom like? The bottom was like long and jagged.

How long you got? Um, five years, five, past five years. So, um, did somebody say something to you? Yeah. Everybody said what they had to say. We mean somebody like there's not one person who didn't say something. What were they saying? I don't have

a single friend who's like damn i wish you drank still i don't have a single person in my life who's like you were so fun just like you're riding this shit till the wheels fall off like you're gonna die that was i was a real alcoholic um a friend had passed away and that sort of lit the fuse i had money i'd done pitch perfect so I had more money than I'd ever had before. Yeah. 36 grand. Yeah. I was loaded.

Yeah, man. And I started partying like crazy. We were doing South by Southwest with this group I was in and just drinking. Became a daily. Then there was a sort of a really close family friend died yeah and that sort of lit the fuse for me and i picked up a bottle and then i sort of didn't put one down how'd he die i'm just like i just not the best way like the worst way but i want to be respectful to his family okay and so that was super tragic tragic yeah and i kind of ran with it and like

and then i you know at the very end what happened is i went to the local bar perfect you know that's you know two seven years ago or eight years ago right so you had an intense two years you you the bottom yeah i was a daily marijuana user sure missing opportunities right but you don't know been to jail a couple times but it's like one was like i was fucked up and had weed on me and we spray painted i was in a group bad name called the b-tards yeah and we spray painted in the lower east side the b-tards will outrun you it's a rap bunch rap group yeah like beastie boys yeah b-tards will outrun you and big gold lettering and whoop whoop like within two seconds the cops pulled up the b-tards did not run jump skip we

went directly to jail i had paraphernalia on my person yeah and we spent a weekend in jail whatever it was and then the other time was open container on the subway right which again is substance yeah like the through line is there's substances involved yeah but at the time i'm like there's cred fuck the police whatever who gives a shit and not to mention the countless like close calls right uh-huh but dying yeah the not dying the driving right like all the things that we do for anyone who's listening, who's in recovery or isn't and wants to be. But my bottom was go into the local bar. I had sort of gotten a little bit of program in me and decided, you know, we can speak candidly. I got into a fourth step and decided like, nah, the same for me.

Yeah. And decided I wasn't an alcoholic and went out to do a little bit of research and seven months later it was like a sunday it was going it was the second time going to the same bar i'd gone in the morning fell asleep took a nap went back to the same bar the bartender put me in an uber i fought with the uber because he wouldn't get me booze yeah i walked home and i fell flat on my face yeah and bloody concussed myself yeah and i woke up in the morning and i was like there's only two things i gotta do i gotta take care of my face yeah and my dog and i'm 50 is failing i'm fucked. And I called a friend

and I detoxed on his couch for two or three days and haven't had a drink since. Which is miraculous because I was on his couch like, I'm not done, bro. I know I'm not done. Sober guy?

Yeah. Still sober too. But yeah, and I haven't had a drink and I sort of dove into program in new york in la this is in la oh i got sober in new york yeah which is a gnarly fucking place yeah but it's also like it's real historical shit there's something about like there's something when you get sober in new york and you're doing that thing where you're like all you fucking doing is going to meetings and

hanging out with sober dudes it's one of those ones where you always land because there's always one there so it always plays a part in your head. Right. You know, old school. But when you travel, like are you hitting meetings out of town? Sometimes. Not as much as I get more years I don't.

But yeah, I do. Sure, I do. Because people know that I'm in it. I'm in the secret club and people reach out. Sometimes I'll go. Yeah, likewise. I used to do it on my own.

I'd always pick the weirdest wrongest meetings me too i'm a bad picker yeah i'd look them up and i'll be like this one sounds good it's kind of close and i've had times where it's like there was just me and some guy it's his first meeting and we were the only ones there and i'm like well i guess i'm running this yeah like that kind of shit how are you doing doing? Yeah, right. Yeah. Here's my number. I leave tomorrow. Yeah. But it's still, it's the effort, you know, that what you learn about that shit is, is

that you've done due diligence. Yeah. And when you think about that, like when I think about the early days, like having to just structure my life minute by minute just to like make it you know just to get through 24 hours at the very beginning and you know going through the that that change in that process of like even just going to the grocery store sober and being like it's so crazy just all that stuff and i take that and i go and then my brain and then i look at like rapping for 70 seconds at the Oscars. And it's like,

is that really going to be harder than getting day one? And you're like, or even like day six. For that first couple of years, you're so crazy, man. Like you just like calling dudes in the program all day. Like what's up?

Yep. I'm in trouble. Yep. Yep. I got a few of those. Shout out to John, Joey, Rico, Greg, Raul. Yeah, right. Davey.

Yeah, yeah. Alex. What are you doing? I got a gaggle. I'm thinking about doing this. Yeah. My sponsor, he passed away, but he was a quadriplegic. And he had a way of just giving me perspective.

Oh, yeah. I've got like three four months i'm driving a honda civic and it's just ratty tattered yeah and i'm not paying attention and i go into traffic and i hit a dude and the front fender comes off oh you hit a car yeah i hit a car sorry hit a truck and the guy's wasted but i don't have insurance yet because i'm new newly sober yeah so there's nothing not responsible there's nothing yeah there's nothing i have insurance yet because i'm new newly sober yeah so there's nothing not responsible there's nothing yeah there's nothing i can do yeah so i'm just like this dude's shit faced but i'm gonna have to pay him because like if i call the cops we're both fucked like that's

what my brain tells me oh yeah and i'm panicking and i call russell and i go russell oh my god i just hit a guy i hit his car and the front bend's coming off, and I don't know what I'm going to do, and I'm freaking out. And he just sighs, and he goes, man, I wish I could drive. And I go, all right, man, I think I'm going to be good. I think we're good. I'm just going to get his number and deal with it without insurance. And he goes, that sounds like a good idea I was like okay love ya

bye went to the meeting zip tied up the fender went to the meeting that's it that's life right there so so at what point it was a big relief for everybody yourself included and everyone that knew you and your parents were concerned

they didn't really know until I told them that I was doing it. And how much did you fuck up, you know, like in terms of opportunity and whatnot? Like what was... Yeah. So, I mean, I didn't pay taxes for several years. The normal shit with people who have responsibility issues. I cleaned up all that stuff. But I...

Professionally, though. Professionally, the white whale is Hamilton. So Lynn comes to me in 2012 and he goes, I have this role, Aaron Burr in Hamilton. It's for you. I'm writing something special for you. And I go, got time i'm like maybe if i have time 2012 so you're you're deep in it i'm deep in the substances i've just done pitch perfect and cocky pretty high on my own supply yeah of which there was very little of and so i went to lincoln center and i played aaron burr in an initial reading of hamilton and then some time passed and I went to Soon, not SUNY, Poughkeepsie, New York.

Yeah. I think that is SUNY. I'm not sure. I'm sure there's a SUNY there. So we go to Poughkeepsie. Yeah. And we're doing these staged readings of Hamilton. And I'm not a musical theater guy, but like I do.

You and Diggs. Diggs was there. You did. Yeah, I talked to him. Yeah, David is a close friend good guy great guy good i like that movie um yeah i was in that movie blind spotting yeah oh yeah yeah you're funny in that movie too there's a middle there's a scene in in the middle yeah yeah yeah they let me improvise which was really cool i remember it it was fun yeah digs is the

homie so i show up up with David the night before. David and I and this guy Dialect are in a cypher. We're like rapping and I'm drinking Jameson and we're getting fucked up and we go, we're meant to be in Poughkeepsie the next morning. And so long story short, like I go, I'm not going to drink while I'm there and it's impossible. And I would go, I'm not gonna drink while i'm there and it's impossible uh-huh and i would go i'm not gonna drink and i'd wake up at 5 a.m in his dorm wait for the liquor store two miles away to open i'd walk to the liquor store buy the pint of whiskey yeah walk back in time for

rehearsal whoa yeah and suffice to say i was not able to execute in the way that they needed me to. I fully fucked up. I was wasted, man. And Lynn and Alex Lacamoire, who's the musical director. Lynn, not so much because he's not one for confrontation. But Alex Lacamoire pulled me aside and he's like, what are you doing? Like, there's, you're not good. Like, you're not doing this well. Nobody knew that it was because of alcohol. But he's like. Had you done it well nobody knew that it was because of alcohol but he's like had you done it well yes okay like the reason i was there and is like i i'm able to pick up music pretty

quickly yeah like if you if you sing it or if you say it i'm quick to memorize yeah but not if i'm fucking brain dead yeah um so that opportunity, obviously, I'm not here talking about my starring Tony Award winning role in Hamilton. Right. So that's sort of the big thing. And I had to, you know, when I got sober, the gift is, is that my relationship

with those guys in particular, with everyone in general, got so much stronger and deeper. And I think, you know, I went and I auditioned again for them and we all knew I wasn't going to get it, but it was kind of like a living amends. Like, here, let me give you my best because you didn't get it.

I flew myself out to New York, like stayed sober, auditioned for them. Like I was fucking humble. myself out to New York, like stayed sober, auditioned for them, like I was fucking humble. One of the few times in my life that I've actually been humble where you're like, I'm broken. I don't have anything but my best to give you. And that's not gonna be enough and that's okay. And I think that engendered a little bit of love

and respect that was there, but you know, you start to rebuild relationships and build new branches on trees that you're like, man, this is probably going to die. But then all of a sudden, you know, Lynn was the first person to call me when I got my year sober. He FaceTimed me and we chatted. Yeah, he was the first person to call. And our families and our friendship has grown and become something that transcends work and rarely is about work, you know? You have kids? I have a four and a half year old stepdaughter.

Uh-huh. And I'm going to be a dad in two months. Wow. Yeah, baby due in April. So you hang out with the Mirandas? We do. Yeah. Yeah, we do.

We kick it. I mean, it's fun. I mean, I'm so glad he was at the oscars it's a double-edged sword because everyone's like this motherfucker's only here because lynn's here but at the same time it's really helpful when you have one of your best friends but that's not quite true is it no no it's not quite true at all yeah but it's um and if it is true who gives a fuck lynn man like it's lynn And also who wants to fucking do that job? Lin's like, yeah, exactly.

I talked to him about his, he's sort of like, it was, you know, no, no. I mean, I talked to him that night. Oh. About whatever he did out there, which was introduced to songs or I can't remember what it was. What was it? It was the. Introduced Eminem essentially.

Eminem basically. And everyone was like, why the fuck is Eminem here? But. Right. And then I was like, fuck, I got to follow Eminem. But like. I thought Eminem was great. He was cool. Yeah. He's one of us here. Right. And then I was like, fuck, I got to follow Eminem. But like. I thought Eminem was great. He was cool.

Yeah. He's one of us too. Yeah. Elton John is too. Yeah. I was like, this is great. You could have had a meeting. I should have.

The first person, the red carpet was so uncomfortable. I'm so scared. I don't feel like I belong. Imposter syndrome. Yeah. The first guy that came up to me was like, hey, Utkarsh, my name is so and so. My sponsor's name is, you know him. I have 17 months.

I just wanted to say hello. And I was like, bro, you have no idea how important it was for you to say hi to me. You just put this whole shit into perspective. Have a great night. Nice. I'm going to go do this. But having Lin in the audience and Anthony, who's the homie as well, Anthony Ramos, who's fam, Anthony Ramos starring in In the Heights, it really helps.

Sure. It helps to look and see your brother who genuinely wants you to succeed. Yeah. Not who's putting it on for the camera, but also who I very much appreciate for putting it on for the camera. He put his big old smile face on for me. Yeah. for the camera.

He like put his big old smile face on for me. Yeah. Lynn is like the kind of person that like Warren Buffett is excited to meet. Yeah. You know what I mean? He's a sweetheart. Yeah. Good hearted guy.

And he treats his third grade teacher and Warren Buffett with the same amount of love, which is what I appreciate about him. Yeah. But no, like I stood up on that stage and the first person I locked eyes with was brad pitt yeah also a sweetheart dude and he just won his oscar sitting next to mom feeling fucking right his brain yeah he gives me a big old brad pitt smile and i'm like well you and i are best friends

like you're my guy and then i look up and mahershala ali's there and he's giving me that stoic yeah like smile and he's very like connected and i was like well mahershala is my best buddy yeah and then i look and i see taika who i did a movie with this summer called um free guy with ryan reynolds yeah so i've got eaten pizza with him so we're best buds right so you felt comfortable i made myself i tricked myself into feeling love right as a as opposed to fear yeah and i changed the focus in my brain to instead of all you guys are judging me and I don't belong here, even though I said that out loud.

Yeah. Because I have a hard time filtering my real thoughts. But I changed it to being like, let me show you guys a good time. Yeah. I flipped it to like, I do this very well. I know I don't believe that I do it well, but there's evidence physically that it's happened for me in the past.

That's also show business. Yeah. And I'm just going to smile now and do what I've prepared. And the lucky thing is fear for me makes me catatonic. Like my body goes very rigid. Yeah. So it comes off as being very calm right yeah right right right the paralysis yeah people like you were so calm and composed and

it's like dude my brain as it's happening my director brain is like you're not moving you are not moving and then the other brain's like no no it's perfect for camera stay scared yeah just stick stick the landing stick the fucking landing thank your mom ah thanks mom wait wait what about your dad it's too late now like my dad's just perpetually feels left out yeah um so that's basically how it went real time oh that's great and then rapping about mindy and mindy wasn't even fucking there it was like her seat filler and i was like don't like she seat filler. And I was like, don't. She was there though, but she was just out of them. I had seen her before, but I saw some girl waving her arms and I was like, that's not

Mindy. Right. And then you can't draw attention to the seat filler thing because it destroys the magic that is the Oscars. The fact that nobody's in their seats or gives a flying fuck. No, I mean, some people do. They do. But you did a good job.

I appreciate it. I didn't talk. I feel like we should kind of land the sync. So let's, all right, so you ready to rap? I could rap, yeah. I could definitely rap. Are you going to play? Yeah.

What do you like? What's the beat? That's perfect. Yeah. Mark Maron. UTK. Okay. What's up?

What the fuckers? Ice road truckers. Mothercluckers. Oyster shuckers. Young up-and-comers. Out-of-luckers. Listen while I just tuck the beat up in my pocket. Listen cause I'm a rocket. They call me the Indian, and they say that I'm so exotic.

They kept taking off, just like a rocket, I'm strapped in, I get to rappin'. Listen, the captain is comin', and what happened? I'm kickin' a liquor while I'm spittin' the shit you fully equipped to feel me while you wiggle your hips to the sound that I'm makin' right now. This is innovation in the South Asian The brown holding the crown Mark Maron never preparing He got it on the podcast You know I outlast anybody

My paragraphs spitted with different stanzas I beat the scans and listen I'm Tony Danza the boss What's the cost? You with a loss You know that I floss So back and forth and I got it Just watch me toss the rhythm

While I'm hitting it Revving my engine Oh yeah, full of melanin Like I said it's a word that I use in my toolbox, listen, cause I got it, my tube socks up to the knee, feeling me flow so free, and MC, while I be up on the stage, and you see, the man finish Broadway, then I did the Oscars, and I know Topo Chico is gonna wanna sponsor, while I do it, the responder, sound, anding, you know, while we playing on the frets And I'm flipping the flow, oh yes sir He up on the get, I'm spitting shit, yeah Making noise with my boy, wearing green corduroy Bringing joy, yes I got him right now when I play with toys Yeah, he got the microphone in his brand new garage

I got a lyrical barrage for all of y'all, uh-huh And, and, and, and We don't stop. Can't stop. Won't stop. Keep it hot. Like Ice Cube playing beats with a pill. Chemicals in an escalade. Have a nice fucking day.

If you stopped listening to the podcast before that moment, you missed out. Thanks, man. It's like the one with Peter Fonda and then the one with me. That's like one in two. You got to give yourselves more credit. Thanks for doing it. Thank you. Doing some music.

Great guy. Funny guy. Sober guy. You can see him in Britney Runs a Marathon streaming on Amazon or the Mindy Project or anything else that he mentioned that you can find. I enjoyed talking to that guy.

Stay safe. Don't touch people. Stay out of circulation. Do the right thing. Don't believe bullshit. Don't fall into the stupid portal boomer lives you can get anything you need with uber eats well We'll be right back. by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new

challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talked to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.