WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1109 - Kathy Valentine

Episode Date: March 26, 2020

Kathy Valentine is in one of the most famous and profitable female rock bands ever but she’s really taken to becoming a writer. That's because she’s got a lot of stories to tell. Kathy talks with Marc about her new memoir that chronicles her early life and the peak of The Go-Go’s. She explains why the band fell apart after their period of success and tells Marc how the bandmates recently strengthened their bond with each other. Kathy also compares notes with Marc about finding the gift of forgiveness in sobriety. This episode is sponsored by Ozark, Season 3 on Netflix and The Last Degree of Kevin Bacon on Spotify. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18-plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucknarians how's it going man women children you letting your kids listen to this how's it going i um i'm okay the quarantine thing is pretty solid we're dug in we're dug in over here i have to start saying we because there's been an issue that we're going to get into in a minute today on the show i talked

to kathy valentine who is a bonafide go-go, a go-go. I talked to a go-go. And I think people really got to remember just how fucking huge the go-go's were. I mean, they were the first kind of big ass mainstream, all on full on rock band, women, all women. And they were the real deal, man. I remember. I remember that record. Kathy Valentine, the bass player, who was actually a guitar player before she went into the go, still plays guitar, obviously.

She's written a book called All I Ever Wanted. It comes out next Tuesday, March 31st. It's good. Rock and roll story. But, you know, it's also about self-realization, about dealing with one's parents in the past. I mean, it's just she lived quite the life because her mom was sort of a free spirit type back in the 70s, late 60s. Parents were divorced. I don't know.

It was good. It's Texas, Austin, Texas, all the makings of a good memoir. But I'll talk to her about that in a bit. But how are you guys holding up? I mean, it's becoming pretty clear that there's a movement within the government, within the country that really thinks that money is the most important thing and we should all be willing to lose our grandparents. That, you know, hey, man, adapt or die, we got to keep this thing going.

We got to keep selling stuff. We can't have this economy bottom out because then we're going to have no choice but to vote for Bernie. He's the only guy who's going to know how to build it back up. Make the people connect again. If there's no economy, God knows what. Who knows what's going to happen? All I know is that listen to the scientists, listen to the doctors, and if you live in a good state,

they're not going to send you out there into the eye of the fucking storm of sickness. This is what they mean. It's going to be state by state. But we'll see. We'll see what happens with this big gamble. Hey, man, you know, who needs old people? We got to keep the engine

going they're not bringing a lot to the table it's easier than getting rid of medicare and social security if we just let the old people die i mean let's not look a gift horse in the mouth here people come on that's a point of view happening out there so hope you're hanging in there new york city sounds like you're the uh tip of the spear here in this country that's going to sort of be unfolding in all the cities of the country with any amount of people in them one after the other some all at once my mother's down in florida i'm checking in with her pretty frequently there's no way that that's not going to become a shit show virus and that fucking governor he's not doing nothing zilch zero belligerence in the face of

the germ hell of a gamble, people's lives. Over what? Come on, it's okay to go in the water. Look, the thing is, most of you know that I've been dating this woman, Lynn Shelton, who directs movies. She also directed my last two comedy specials. A couple episodes of Marin. A couple episodes of Glow, but that was before we started doing this thing.

Well, she was working on something in Boston. She's living down here in LA now. She's getting her house set up when she went to Boston, but that got canceled. Now she's back here and she's been in my house

for fucking weeks. But she did have a good point and I think it's something we all need to talk about. And we'll get to it. But we've been watching a lot of movies. Probably going to get into some comedy tonight. We haven't watched much comedy. Taylor Tomlinson, I'm watching that,

and Segura's got one. There's a nice little cluster. I think Taylor's was out earlier, but there was a nice little cluster that I'm happy to be part of. I think I was the first one on Netflix. It's me, Bert Kreischer, who's a friend of mine. I did his podcast recently. I've watched a bit of his special.

Segura came out the other day. Me, Kreischer, Segura, and I think there's a D'Elia one coming. I'm not sure. Segura's special is called Ball Hog. Kreischer's is Hey Big Boy. But I know all these guys. I like Tom. I'm going to watch his tonight.

I spend my life watching comics, but usually for 15 minutes because I'm not a middle act anymore. So I see everyone for just the right amount of time. I spend my life watching comics, but usually for 15 minutes because I'm not a middle act anymore. So I see everyone for just the right amount of time. 15, 20 minutes. Perfect. Because I'm not a feature act. I have to sit through the headliner. Now, Lynn Shelton is staying with me here at the house.

And, you know, we're getting through this together. And she, like, listens to the podcast. Now, I don't understand that. I get it. It's nice. She was a fan before, you you know we started whatever we're doing but like I'll do the podcast like this one comes out today

and by the end of the day she'll be like well that was nice what you said about me like I'm like what are you doing like I'm with you all day long and now I'm with you and you're listening to me I mean it's a little weird but I've dealt with it before but usually not in the same fucking house so it's good though i'm glad that you like me what

lynn shelton is in the room right now which i can acknowledge which is part of the problem because the other day she listened and she was kind of like there was something wrong you know we haven't been seeing each other that long but this thing is really you know a day is a week in relationship time and quarantine one day equals one week so I can tell when there's something wrong and I'm like what's going on so i don't know see i'm still talking like you you weren't here which is part of the problem so what was the problem the other day lynn shelton the direct film director director of me uh in several different projects all right what happened so i i you know have to wait till you're out of the room

or we're in different floors to listen to your podcast because you don't like to hear yourself. So I think you were downstairs making breakfast and I was upstairs in the bathroom and I turned on the, I was taking a bath or something, I don't know. And I was listening to your intro for Monday and you started out with this nice message about trying to make sure to the people about how they should stay connected to each other and reach out to people who might be in need and all this.

And sort of talking about in general what it's like life under quarantine. Yeah, yeah. And then you painted this very detailed portrait of your life yeah in quarantine and you know the thing is that specific in that particular context it struck me because i think it's really it's got to be a really different experience to be actually isolated and completely alone right right and some people are and i know people who are and who are really feeling extra disconnected from other people and i particularly i'm specifically grateful to have somebody to be going through you know

with this oh my god he's picking up the hammer you oh i'm with you and um and so i just it was it particularly struck me because as you were painting this portrait of your life yeah it just sounded like you're all by yourself is that really true though it is you said i every she's like i'm i'm i'm stockpiling a lot of food yeah doing a lot of cooking yeah i'm reading well not really reading that much but i am you know i'm watching i saw a great movie last night, Cassavetes, Killing of a Chinese Bookie. I did do all those things. You did.

I did. And I'm spending, you know, a lot of time with my cats. Did I say that? Yes. That was how you wrapped it up. And I was like, huh, that is so curious because he just sort of, does he not know I'm here? because he just sort of, does he not know I'm here? Like, have I just become so sort of a part of the furniture that he doesn't even register my presence?

No. See, this is an interesting conversation because, you know, I have this, who I am on the mics and all the things I said were true. You just, you were there as well and i'm not that disassociative okay i i know that you were there i know we cooked the stock you did the big stock i know that we've been eating food together we were cooking we're eating popcorn we're watching movies we're both you We're eating popcorn. We're watching movies.

We're both dealing with the cats. We're chatting. We're doing the stuff, the dirty stuff. We're having a full life here in quarantine. Too full, even. A lot of time to fill. I'm getting work done out here. But mostly, you're in the house.

I'm up here. You're meditating. Whatever. The issue is, yes, you're here and I'm getting work done out here, but mostly, you know, you're in the house, I'm up here, you're meditating, whatever. The issue is, yes, you're here and I'm experiencing that. Why? The question is why did I not acknowledge that more thoroughly? Well, all you need to do is just say we, that's all. An occasional we. I am my own man. Now I will explain to you what that's about is i'm in the habit of that because and i really think it is a habit you know once i get out here i get on these mics this is my

experience with my listeners and i think i am being honest but the reason that i do that by habit is the last two women i've been with they didn't want to be part of this. They wanted to have their lives or have some control over how they're depicted publicly. Over the time, I've gotten into the habit of doing that. You're right. You can do whatever you want. You're totally not beholden to it. I understand why you're upset about it,

and I think you're right, and I'll try to integrate it. But I think some of it was also me protecting myself against the inevitability of everything being ruined like you know well i remember i remember if you listen to the arc of of your podcast over the years yeah there was i believe i believe a time when you were perhaps where you got in trouble because you revealed too much right you would tell a story from a relationship that. Well, yeah, but, you know, but anything's too much. But the thing is, it's like, okay, so we're having this thing and it's good. We're having a nice time.

And, you know, we, you know, we both broke up with people. And, you know, there's a story, you know, there's backstory, but whatever. But the truth is, is that the more publicly you live your life here, the more I talk about it. If it goes wrong, if it goes bad, it's a heavy trip. Now, obviously, you know, I'm not going to, you know, people knew about my last relationship, even though it wasn't that. I didn't talk about, you know, about her a lot. Specifically, I talked about us a bit. But then when it ends and all of a sudden you got to figure out well how do i handle this and i had to do it very

respectfully and not bringing her into it hardly at all and that's the way that that that went so like when we break up it's going to be a fucking disaster because now now look everyone knows your laugh now you're on the show they know we went through quarantine together we made soup and then when it all goes to shit they're gonna be like is that the one he made soup with during quarantine yep but it sounded like you really liked her when you had her on that time i know but you but things go wrong. Well, what went wrong? Is that important? Yeah, we all knew her. Everyone knows her. Your mom will be

angry at you. My mom was like, are you still with her? Yeah. Are you still in love? Yes, everything's going good. She's amazing. How is she putting up with that? How is she still with you? She's really leaning into it, too.

In the last relationship, she wasn't like that. But now she's sort of like, really? What's with the tone? All right, so look. Were you a Go-Go's fan? I was a giant gogos fan listen to me segwaying like it's a fucking radio show because you're in luck uh i don't know if you know who kathy valentine really why kathy valentine day kathy valentine here today that's amazing the bass player from the gogos yeah she's here today on the show with you and us. Wow. Yeah, just so, that's great. You're a Go-Go's fan.

It's true. You're going to hear me talk to Kathy Valentine shortly, like now. Her memoir is called All I Ever Wanted, which comes out next Tuesday,

March 31st, and you can pre-order it now. The Go-Go's documentary premiered at Sundance in January. It will be on Showtime later this year. This is me and Kathy Valentine. She was lovely.

I gave her tea in the kitchen. We're not co-hosting the show. All right? This is me and Kathy Valentine talking without Lynn here. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+.

We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply.

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Yeah, I don't usually do that. And I was curious because usually I'm sort of like, well, what's the angle? You know what I mean? What happened? And I was happy at the end, at the very last two chapters. I'm like, does she get sober? Is this a happy ending? What happens? Yeah, 31 years.

Oh, wow. I got 20. It's a good thing. But you definitely waited until the end to reveal that. You took it right to the edge here. Well, I knew that I was going to do like an arc from right to the edge here well i knew that i was gonna do like an arc yeah from from 1970 to 1990 yeah because i just thought this tells a story and that was kind of the end of the story and also getting back everything i'd lost but getting to do it sober right was like

a nice little that was the plan so what but you didn't want to deal with, like, from 1990 to now? That's another book. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay, so there's a sequel. Well, yeah, but first I'm going to do another book or two different ones, so I'm not, like, just the memoir person. Right.

But that'll be in the works. So writing something that you've taken to and you want to do more of it in that way. I was really surprised, like, how many female rock memoirs are out there and how many people are into them, but how there's not a lot about music. I write a lot about music and how it was a part of my life. That's what I love about the book, because we have a lot of the same heroes, and you talk to them. I've only talked to a book where I, like, I don't know, like, just go talk to different women. Like, instead of, like, women who rock, like, really talk to them about what music was for them. Oh, right. I just feel like that doesn't get talked about a lot.

Like, we all know what Muddy Waters meant to the Stones and Buddy Holly. Right. And I don't think a lot of women get to tell that part of their story. So that's a book I'd like to do. Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Because, I mean, you definitely tell a little bit of it. But there's moments where, I'm a huge Jimmy Vaughn fan, you know.

Oh, cool. Yeah, huge. Do you like that part I wrote about him? I love the part about Jimmy. But I also like the part that Stevie, comparing him and his brother, where Stevie says when he's playing, he puts everything he's got into it. And when Jimmy's playing, you're only getting about 10% of what he's capable of. It's so wild.

But it taught you the definition of making choices about your own style. And personality. Right. Because that's how Stevie was. And it was so at odds with who he is. Who, Stevie? Yeah. Well, he was so reserved and humble. Right. And bla Stevie. Yeah. Well, like he was just seemed he was so reserved and humble.

Right. And like blazing. Yeah. But when I would go see the Thunderbirds a whole lot, like when Jimmy would see me out in the audience, he's known me since I was 16 years old. Right. He would just like throw in like this crazy like. Oh, yeah. And just like for me and I'd be like, oh, to show you that he could do it. Well, no, just kind of like recognizing that that I was be like uh-huh oh to show you that he could do it well no just kind of like recognizing that that I was there and hey this is for you so but okay so you weren't born in Austin though yeah oh okay you were born in Austin but you're old who was from England your mother my mom right yeah my mom was from England and she ended up in Austin and still there and still complains about it yeah but the whole thing I mean I can't imagine what Austin was like at that time.

I mean, at Texas, because it wasn't, was it cool? Super cool. It was, it was insanely cool. And I, I don't know if I would have been a musician if I had been somewhere else. Right. Of course not. But like, I grew up in New Mexico, so I remember what it was like being a teenager towards the tail end of the 70s.

But you seemed to be like right in the middle of it. And it seemed very exciting to me. Yeah, the only part I missed out on was like the psychedelic era. Like I didn't see like the 13th floor elevators. Oh, right. And like Billy Gibbons had the moving sidewalks. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there was this cool psychedelic era that I was too young for.

But everything after that. Yeah, and also by the time in the 70s, right, when you're growing up, everything's just dirty. Like, I mean, like the 60s were idealistic, but by the mid-70s, it was just, you know, everybody was just dirty and fucking and doing coke. But that's what was so great about being a teenager in the 70s. It's like, wow, because then you're a kid. For me, I'm a kid in the 60s, so I have that idealism as a kid. Right, yeah.

A little kid. Yeah, and then I get to be like this in this debauched era where the worst thing that can happen is you get the clap. Yeah. And everyone did, apparently, from what I heard. Yeah, oh, yeah.

Like, it was just this common thing. I missed out on all that. I think... Well... There's still time? Congrats. I don't know. But the dynamic, what happened with your folks though?

I mean, so when did they get split up? I know some of this, but I don't want to lead you because I read the book. Yeah. Well, my folks split up when I was three. Yeah. And my dad basically just kind of moved away. I hear that so much. Certain dads, they start over. I think it was the era, a lot of it. This was 1962. And what he told me later in life was that he said, I just figured your mom would marry somebody else and I'd be in the way and it was

easier for everyone. But it was terrible for me. Yeah. But that, do you believe that? I don't know, but you know, you got to get people a pass. Sure. I mean, eventually, you know what I mean? But that seems like, how is he the victim? You know what I mean? Like, oh, shucks. It'd just be easier for you guys if I didn't get, you know? Yeah. I don't know. It's just like. It was horrible, right? Well, I didn't really know it was horrible till my thirties. And I wrote about this. It's like I was with a friend and I was watching her little three-year-old run from her mom to her dad. And all of a sudden it was like this light bulb, like this kid would notice if the dad wasn't

there. Right. So I called my mom and I was like in my thirties, I'd been sober about five years. I'm like, Hey mom, what did I do? And when y'all got a divorce, I'd never asked her and all that time. And she said, Oh, it's horrible. You'd sit on the steps and wait for him to come home. And you'd see a car that you thought was his, and it would just drive by and you would sob. And I was like, and I was like, I could, I didn't remember that. But it's part of your heart it's in there yeah

oh it's so heavy did that make you cry when she told you I cried a lot writing this book I cried reading the book did you

yeah of course I cried doing the audio book a couple weeks ago there was one part did they leave it in I don't know I don't know what they'll do but the engineer

the producer was skyping in from New York. The engineer was in the other room. Yeah. And there was one part where we were all just like sobbing. Oh, God. Yeah. I kind of don't think they should leave it in. That's awkward.

Well, I mean, the parts where you cry, they're not bad cries. You know what I mean? They're not tragic cries. They're actually cries of sort of like connection. cries of uh sort of like connection and and usually it's it's the when i cry it's when the good things happen or or surprising uh you know reconnections or that kind of stuff sure right and the getting sober thing i always that always gets me yeah that you know the the kind of realizations that one has that that moment that people uh that you sort of get it you know i get like if i'm in a meeting, man, I'm just wired to cry

at that moment in those stories where the hand of AA is there. What do they call it? They call it the, what do they call it when, like, oh, the Eskimo? Uh-huh.

Like the person that like makes you go, oh, maybe I should quit. Oh, is that what they call them? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, those stories always get me. But so you're on your own with your mother. And the way you characterize her is like as, you know, this very kind of self-serving person that didn't really know how to behave like a parent.

Yeah. behave like a parent. Yeah. Writing the book did wonders for my relationship with my mom because I not only was able to kind of process everything she didn't do, but it also made me see what was good, you know? That's important. And it kind of just let me process and I don't know, my heart has opened up to her in a way that before I had a lot of resentment. And I'm always there for her. And it's just me and her. It's always been just me and her. But sometimes I would be like, you know, damn, like, couldn't you have taken care of business a little?

Like, you're older now. Yeah. And I'm the one that's making, I'm the reason you're not on the street and stuff. But it's like, it's just the right thing to do sometimes. And family is family. And there's a lot of who I am. And I said to her the other day, I was like, mom, if you hadn't raised me the way you did

and I hadn't gone through that stuff and been thrown out there on my own like that, I would have had a boring book. So- That's for sure. Yeah, I mean, I've grown to, in sobriety, believe that's true, that you did get good things from them to separate them. Yeah.

It's hard, though. It's really hard, especially when I'm raising. There were so many times in the book where my daughter was the same age that I was writing, and I'm like, for Christ's sake. How does that have an impact on you? Because like, you know, the 70s, but not the 70s. You were surrounded by, you know, predatory dudes who were cool, but, you know, they were what they were.

And the environment was sort of forgiving or without any sort of, you know, parental guidance even from your parents, and there was drugs around. But you talk about these dudes coming and going, and you're a kid. What is it like to look at your daughter when she's 15, knowing that you were sleeping with a 38-year-old? I know. Well, we had very different childhoods, and she's parented. But they look like real kids, don't they? she's, she's parented. And it's just look like real kids,

don't they? I mean, she's a kid when you look at someone 15. Well, that's what I was processing. It's like, and there's a part in the book where I'm talking to my mom going, like, what were you thinking? You know, what were you doing? And, and like, I just kept thinking about me as a mom and my daughter having to go through that stuff that I did. And it was wild. It's crazy. Yeah. And those dudes are still around. What were you just saying?

That you saw some of those guys' names in another story? Oh, yeah. Like I was reading the Janis Joplin book. And Janis' early days in Port Arthur, there was a crew of guys she hung out with. Right. And I was just like flipping out because like one guy, I'm like, oh, geez, I had an affair with that guy when I was 15 and he must have been like 40 or something. And then there was another guy I've known since I was like three years old.

He was with Janice Joplin and hanging out. And I didn't know that. But I have my own like memories. So it's weird to just read a book and see these connections. Sure, between you and Janice? Yeah, like the guy that like was with her. Yeah.

Like I remember being a little girl and seeing like a stack of Playboys in his bathroom when we were there visiting and looking through them. And I'd never seen like that. Yeah. And I'm like, what are they doing? And it was at his house. Yeah, yeah. And I went home and I remember I went in the closet and like like took off my clothes and like

posed like that and like because I was like what it wasn't sexual it was just like curious like what are these women doing and yeah why are they doing it and I'm gonna go see what it's like yeah and how was it it was kind of scary I was like the thought of somebody coming in and finding me. So that was your mom's boyfriend for a while? No, no. He was just a family friend. But I've known him since forever. And you started doing drugs really young as well, right? I mean, how would you not?

So your mom was sort of into it? Well, for a little while. Because it just seemed like it was always there. For a little while, I was smoking pot. Like, for me, the summer between, I, I guess I was 12 years old, everything like exploded. I started smoking cigarettes. I started drinking, um, Boone's farm, strawberry Hill.

Oh yeah. And that was my gateway drug. And it was disgusting. I mean, I would, I would take a drink and, and retch and vomit and then guzzled more. and retch and vomit and then guzzler more. And it was really the first time that I felt, A, that I felt like I didn't feel. Like I didn't feel the way I didn't want to feel and I did feel the way I did want to feel.

Right, yeah. Just from that disgusting stuff. Yeah, you got the warmth. Yeah, and everybody in Texas smoked a lot of pot and did a lot of psychedelics. So that's what I had access to. And it was Texas style. So it's just like, you know, weird desert and did a lot of psychedelics. So that's what I had access to. It was Texas style. So it's just like, you know, weird desert shit.

Yeah, mescaline and psilocybin. Cowboys. Well, you probably had that in Albuquerque too. But not the same. Texas is its own country. You know what I mean? It's its own trip, man. I mean, there was some of it in Albuquerque, but it was a little washed out. The era when the hippies and

the rednecks kind of morphed and the whole cosmic cowboy thing was super cool. In the early 70s? Yeah. All right. So when did you get your first guitar? When was that? Well, I started playing guitar at the hippie school that I went to, the commune. And it didn't occur to me I could be in a band. I just was learning guitar. And then I was in England because my mom's English. And I saw Suzy Quatro. And it was the first time I'd seen a woman rock star playing an instrument. I mean, Janis Joplin was a rock star. And it was rock star singers. But I'd never seen a woman just slamming it down. So that changed everything.

And I was like, that's what I'm going to do. And I went back and wrote my dad and asked him to help me get a guitar. Well, first I got, my mom had a boyfriend. And he moved an electric guitar into our house. And that was the first time I plugged in. It was just hanging out there? It was just there. He had escaped from Leavenworth Prison, and he was like a biker and a drug dealer.

But he also played guitar really good. So I was like in heaven. He moves this guitar in. He moves this amp in. It was like a stack? Was it a Marshall? It was just like this. No, it wasn't a whole stack? Was it a Marshall? Yeah, it was just like this. No, it wasn't a Marshall stack.

What was it? I forget what it was. Big amp? It was just a giant amp. What was the guitar? The guitar he'd made. Oh, wow. He'd made the guitar.

Yeah. And so the first time I just plugged in and played my E chord that I knew, and it sounded like that, it was just really empowering it was like I was like I'm like magic right I'm gonna do this forever I'm never gonna not do this yeah so that from that point on I was off and running and he showed me how to play like my first song was uh was Johnny B Good mine too yeah yeah and I sat there forever just like trying to get and I'm a

lefty but I played righty yeah so I could do the left hand trying to get, and I'm a lefty, but I played righty. Yeah. So I could do the left hand pretty good. Yeah. And because I'm not real coordinated with my right hand, it was really just about getting that feel. And I just was fixated on that. And then the Jumpin' Jack Flash. And that's what you were doing. That's what I did. And it was the time, right?

So those were like, well, Jumpin' Jack Flash was probably a relatively new song when you were doing that, right? Yeah. What album was that on? That was on Sticky Fingers? Yeah, that was a little before. I was 16 when that came out. No, no, I was younger. What?

As I write in the book, I got sticky fingers. To side one, I basically had sex and got pregnant. Was that the first time you had sex? I thought it was the second time, but it turned out it was the first time because it hurt. So what I thought had happened the first time, I realized. But anyway, you have to read the book, people, because it's good stories. Of course. Are you afraid to talk about it?

No, no. I'll talk about anything. Oh. It's out there. What the hell am I going to do? It is so funny because I just read the book and you're getting kind of like, well, I don't know if I'm going to. Well, I don't know.

Like, I can still be demure because it's not out, but eventually it's going to be like everyone's going to know. But there's also something interesting about saying it and writing it, isn't there? It's like there's a big difference. There's a different risk to it. Oh, yeah. It feels like, right? Yeah.

It's like it's really terrifying because I've been in bands for my entire adult life since 16 or 17. higher adult life since 16 or 17 and and that kind of means like just being surrounded and in a insulated like a cocoon a band is a cocoon it's a gang and you're just one of of a of a club a member but to put yourself out there like it's i'm 61 years old and all of a sudden it's like okay i'm not just in the background writing a cool song for this for someone else to sing and it's a little terrifying because even though there's there's people are open and and and there's accolades and and praise but it's also you open yourself up to criticism and like how could you do that when you write no just like having knowing that it's going to come out and people are going to read it it's kind of heavy because like you know at reading it what's interesting is that you know

because we grew up in the same time and that your experiences were these experiences like i i imagine that some of the feedback you're going to get around certainly the sexuality is like you know who are these guys you know because you know what with the with even that second time you had sex where you, you know, you lose your virginity, basically. I mean, it doesn't sound like it's consensual, but not in the context of the world we're living in now. And it was sort of rapey. Well, I mean, by today's standards, a lot was, but like, you know, and there is a rape chapter, but at the time, I mean, it's hard to explain to somebody what the seventies was like really. And it was right after the, the sexual revolution of the sixties. Like the first time I did something with a guy and he went and told

everybody at school and I was miserable. And I went into my mom in tears and what she said was like you didn't do anything wrong you did it with the wrong person because my mom was more worried about me being hung up about sex than she was worried about the fact that her 12 year old had had sex yeah it was really I mean by today's standards it's twisted but I kind of, for someone that's like this bohemian free spirit, that's really how she thought of it. And I don't know. I guess some people it's going to sound debauched and weird. But it was just how it was. Sure.

It was definitely the 70s, which is one of the reasons why people have to evolve. And I understand it. Because, I mean, I kind of grew up then. I mean, I wasn't a girl but it's kind of I remember there I mean we were making out I think the first time we were you know I held boobs was probably seventh grade sixth or seventh grade seventh grade and I don't know if that's normal is that normal or was that the time at the time it was just like I don't know it just seemed it seemed okay I mean it's not like all my friends were doing it, but there was like a lot of guys hanging around. I mean.

Well, you also, because of your house that you grew up in, there was drugs and your mom was kind of free spirited, I guess is a nice way to put it. Yeah, and I was getting high. And you were getting high with your mom. Yeah. So that wasn't like, so that's a whole other trip. Yeah. Right? That was a different type of parenting. Yeah. So that's a whole other trip. Yeah. Right? That was a different type of parenting.

Yeah. I have to assume at that time, there were people that weren't parenting like that as well. No. Yeah. No. But no, it's just how it was. And what was that? Your first guitar was a Telecaster?

No. Well, yeah. I wanted a guitar like Keith. Yeah, me too. I get them mixed up, but I either got a deluxe and he played a custom or I got a custom and he played a deluxe. But once I realized I had the wrong guitar, I was like, oh, well, whatever. But when I saw my Strat hanging in a guitar store, I traded that guitar in for it. You traded the deluxe for the Strat? Yeah. And you still have it, right? Yeah. What is that?

It was a 62 Strat? It's a 62 Strat. And it's just like, I'm psychotic. I just now stopped taking it out of town to play gigs with. I think one time I thought somebody had walked off with it, and I lost my shit. I was just like. It's a huge collector's market now. It must be worth a fortune. Well, I was in a car accident with my band. We were playing in West texas and somebody rear

ended us and the neck got it didn't crack off but it got a crack so that always reduces that i've glued it back i don't think it's staying in tune as good i'm kind of heartbroken about it that's hard but that guitar is just i don't know how something that's inanimate could be such a part of you, but it really is. Especially if it's your life. It's what you do. It's your companion. It just represents everything. Yeah.

I don't have a... The guitar I bought, I bought because of Keith, too. I bought a Telecaster. It was my first guitar. It was heavy as hell, too. Yeah. It was like an... I don't know what it was made out of, but I never pursued it as a life,

you know, the musician. Well, you're good. I've heard you play and you could. I want to play with people more. I'll be in your band. You will? Yeah.

I'll come to Austin and play with you. That'd be awesome. I have to learn how to play with people. I play with myself. I think you could. I really think you could do it.

Because if you just start playing, then people around you are just going gonna start playing what you're playing Yeah, I've sat in with I've sat in with people and I like it, you know And I just have to carve out time to make it part of my life Yeah, so quite the through line of the book like, you know when I really think about You know, it seems to me that yeah outside of the go-go's when when that happens You know that the experience of you kind of like um just you know being cool and stuffing things down and not you know responding emotionally to stuff and

drugging yourself that that seemed to you really establish that early on like at the beginning yeah of your life and and it just sort of became like i i would i became sort of amazed at the amount of drugs that were that on after a certain point. Let's just stay with the bands. What was the first band that you started that you were in? Well, I was kind of messed up and doing all these drugs. And when music came in my life and I decided this is what I'm going to do, it's not like I was all of a sudden I'm pure and I'm like, I'm still getting high.

I'm still, you know, but I have a focus and I have. Yeah. It's like kind of just like a side trip. It's like I was really more interested in getting great on the guitar. So I started having bands right away and I put together a couple in Austin and then I went to England and joined a band there. And you were like, what, 15 or 16? Yeah, I was like 16 then. I guess that's when people joined band. I guess that's when you start doing this. Well, I was at a school where I

could do anything I wanted. The hippie school. Yeah. So that helped. So I'm playing guitar. There's other kids around. You can do whatever you want at this school. So we started a band and the school needed benefits. So we had gigs,. Right. And then I played with the band in England. I came back and started a punk band in Austin, the first punk band in Austin. Right, that must have been pretty, like, going back to the sex incident and the abortion incident, you were 12. Yeah. And then that kind of, like, I mean, that must have— That was all the bad shit.

It must have fucked your head up bad. Well, no, it's not like it fucked my head. It was just that I think it's just things that happen that illustrate how lost and confused I was. And your mom took you to the clinic or what happened? Yeah, we flew to California. That's right. You had to fly to California. Because it was two years before Roe v. Wade.

Oh, my God. Yeah. So that's what the future we're looking at now. Well, that's why I wrote about it. I wrote because I feel like people need to tell their stories and, you know, women that have had abortions. So you were able, you told your mother that you were pregnant and then, you know, she's like, let's take care of that. And she figured out how and you had to fly to California. Yeah. And that was the first time you were in California?

Yeah. That was kind of a. Englewood. Yeah. Oh, nice. It was kind of a double-edged sword there. You know, you got to come here, but it was for a horrible reason. Yeah.

But to me, it was like, it was just like so much about just like making the problem go away. And that's kind of like became my whole life thing was like make the make the problem go away if it's by drinking or ignoring it or stuffing it down or the fundamental problem you think your your emotional trauma about like you know just the way you were the dynamic between your you and your mom and your dad kind of splitting I mean mean, was there a constant pain? I don't think it was like conscious, but I think that I felt uncared for and like I didn't feel valued.

Like I think at some deep level, I felt like if I mattered to my dad, he would come visit me more. If I mattered to my mom, she... But it's not like you're articulating it. No, of course not. As a sober grownup, you can see that. Yeah, it's like like you're articulating it. No, of course not. As a sober grown-up, you can see that. Yeah. I've had a lot of time to reflect and writing the book and stuff,

but music really saved me. So that band, the punk band, what was that called? The Violators. Oh, yeah? Did you guys cut any wax? No. In fact, I've been going crazy trying to find a cassette because in my audio book, I wanted to do some underscoring yeah and when i talk about the that band i wanted to kind of have it under there so i was tearing my house apart looking but we have a cassette and um from you found it no i'll find it though i get really still have them most of that stuff i got all i got so much i got everything really yeah after all that moving yeah i've got everything. Really? Yeah. After all that moving? Yeah, I've got everything. It's crazy.

I just found like Go-Go's tapes, like me and Belinda writing songs. Really? Yeah. I just don't have a cassette player. I have to like, and then who's got time? Like you barely have time to do the shit you need to do. You've got to digitize that shit. I know.

I got to just dump it all. But then there's too much. There's going to be like four hours of us like, you know. That's kind of nice though. To hear Izzy wasted, rambling. And then like, bang, bang, bang. Yeah. So, yeah, the thing about punk rock was for, what it did for me was like, I thought I had

to be like Jeff Beck or Jimmy Page or Jimi Hendrix or Eric Clapton to be in a band. And that's what I wanted to be. I wanted to be like in that pantheon. Of those type of guitar players. Yeah, and then there's Kathy. That's what I wanted. It doesn't even sound right, does it? Jimmy and Eric and Kathy.

Yeah, exactly. But that was my dream. But that was my dream. And it's still in there enough that when I meet a woman guitar player that just embodies everything I wanted to be, I just really hold her up. It's like my vicarious thrill. And I play pretty damn good, but I'm not like that level. But when I got hip to punk rock, it was like, oh, I don't have to sit around for years practicing in my bedroom. Yeah, noodling. Yeah, I can be in a band now.

This is cool. Everyone could, right? Yeah, yeah. And that's kind of like, I know we probably will touch on this later, but the Go-Go's have a documentary coming out. And the whole narrative, or not the whole whole but a big part of that film is how the band started in the punk rock scene in LA right so it's kind of cool that I'm in Texas yeah discovering punk rock starting a punk band a little earlier than when they started well was that the first wave I mean was that like what mid 70s like 77 so it was like yeah probably I came

back from England and it was probably 78 where I started that band. Oh, so it was happening in England. It was happening. And I was there playing in this band that became Girl School. And we were a rock band. We were doing like Thin Lizzy and ACDC and stuff. But punk rock was everywhere. So like you, because I was there, I don't remember.

I guess I was there in 1981. And it was already kind of long gone. But that whole king's road trip and all that fashion had really been integrated already but i guess when you were there it was probably fresh it was so fresh and the you know the the pistols were like like it was full-on shock mode you know just like headlines every day and you couldn't ignore it and like walking around king's road and stuff i I mean, I thought I had just gotten like hip in Austin, feeling like a rocker chick. Yeah.

And then I'm like looking at all these punks going, oh, I'm like old fashioned. This sucks. Did you buy some clothes? I bought a t-shirt with zippers on it. Quick study. There you go. And went back to Austin to start that punk band. It's so funny.

Are you friends with Steve Jones? Yeah. Now? Yeah. What a character Jones now? Yeah. What a character, right? Yeah. I mean, we're not in touch a lot, but we've had running, I mean, our paths have crossed many times. Yeah.

Another sober dude. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. So you're doing the punk thing. And what drives you? How do you get? Because I think that this book is very thorough in its depiction of what it takes to be a musician, how a musician's life really unfolds. Yeah.

With the sacrifices you have to make and the dream you have to follow. Because it seems like you knew pretty early that you were doing this. Yeah. And there was nothing that was going to stop that. Yeah. And you were going to figure out a way. But there was a certain number of serendipitous things that had to happen for you to get to the place. But like the idea of like moving to L.A. and almost like just deciding to do it and then doing it. Yeah. It's kind of crazy. Yeah. I think I was 19. What was the band then? It was it was the Violators. We moved. We decided we were going to be big, like the runaways. But we got there, and instead, me and my best friend kind of had a parting of the ways.

Which one's that? Marilyn. Oh, okay. Because she had a fake ID, and she was going out. I was in the horrible apartment by myself. And what did she play? She was the drummer. I made her be the drummer because she was really cute.

And I was like, oh, we'll just put you back you back here could she drum yeah she she got really good um but that wasn't totally it but it was it was really i just didn't want a female singer that didn't play an instrument yeah and she wanted to play drums so we had a falling out and um and we actually just connected again for really yeah so okay so that's when. So you were just hanging out. You were at this club. I was hanging out. And it's like one thing I wrote a lot about that people were surprised is that how supportive the men musicians were.

Yeah. And people are interested in that because you always hear about, oh, it's sexist and this and that. And what I wanted to make sure and acknowledge was that I've never gotten sexism from the male musicians in my life. They were always so supportive and not in a condescending or patronizing way, but as a like, yeah, awesome. And that's what I felt. And I don't know if I would have continued because I looked up to all these guys. There weren't women doing what I wanted to do. And I looked up to all these guys. Yeah. There weren't women doing what I wanted to do and I looked up to them so much

and if they had been Assholes? Yeah. I don't know. I might have, it might have crushed me so it was, I was real fortunate

to have people like Doug Somm and Jimmy and the Thunderbirds and all the guys and the rock and roll guys. I mean, Eric Johnson

gave me a guitar lesson when I was like Did it help? Well, I was, he was gave me a guitar lesson. Oh, did it help? Well, he was really fucking cute, so I kind of just sat there and was like enamored. Yeah. But I remember he showed me, what did he show me? Like all along the watchtower or something like that. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I was just like, ugh. But he later, when he became known, one time he said in an interview, like, I gave Kathy a guitar lesson. He remembered. Yeah, but it was still not like, it was really supportive. And when I finally got to meet my idol, Suzy Quatro, and she had a band called the Pleasure Seekers before she was Suzy Quatro with her sisters. And they told me the same thing. before she was Suzy Cuatro with her sisters.

And they told me the same thing. They said the guys, like Mark Bolan and the Yardbirds and Bowie and all these people that were musicians supported and encouraged them. And it was always the business people that were more like, I don't know if it's awful, but just not really giving you credence or legitimacy or validation or anything like that. Right, right. Yeah, it's the executives and the packagers. Yeah, and the gatekeepers to success. Right.

So you get out here with Marilyn. She's on drums. She's got a fake ID. You're stuck at home. I start writing songs. That's how it goes. Yeah. She's got a fake ID.

You're stuck at home. I start writing songs. That's how it goes. Yeah. The first song I wrote in L.A. was Can't Stop the World, which ended up on the Go-Go's first record. It's just like, to me, how a good song just kind of just stays and stays over decades. Yeah, it sounds like you reworked it. Even Vacation was reworked over time. Vacation, I wrote it like when I was 21 and the text tones recorded it.

And even that version. Which band was that? That was a band you were in before the punk band? Yeah, no, that was after the punk band. Oh, that was out here. That was my band in L.A. that played at the prison and jammed with Buddy Miles and Smokey Robinson. Yeah, you got to tell me that story. But wait, let's go back.

So, yeah, so that vacation was originally recorded with them. Yeah, and then when the Go-Go's were, when I got in the Go-Go's and I was like, I want to be one of the writers. So yeah, what do you got? So I'm like, I got this. Yeah, so and then one night when I showed it to Charlotte, she goes, let's make the chorus like more chorus-y,

like pop chorus. And so we wrote that and that became, you know, one of our biggest hits. Yeah. And so how do you – I love this story about how it happens, you know, because it's just one of those things that – and you're very aware of it, that hadn't you been at that club at that moment in that bathroom, I mean, who the fuck knows, right? I mean, like, what?

So, okay, so you're in the Textones. That's your band. You guys are doing okay or not really? Well, we were getting good shows and stuff, and we opened for a lot of cool, we opened for the Stranglers, and we played with the Ramones, and it seemed all good for a kid.

Did you meet the Ramones and hang out? Oh, yeah, a bunch of times. Nice guys. My favorite thing when we got successful, and'm talking about the gogos yeah out of all the stuff like all the gold record my favorite thing was the telegram from the ramones yeah that said congratulations gogos we love you johnny dd marky everyone's gone I can't so weird I still can't get over it yeah

getting me choked up so yeah we were getting a lot plenty of shots but all the bands that were coming up around us were doing better

like like the Plimsolls and the Go-Go's even before I was in you mentioned the Blasters the Blasters everybody was doing good and I just thought

and the text tones seemed like we'd become like me singing my songs and Carla singing her songs. She was my mate. Yeah. And I just thought I need to leave the band

and figure something. Yeah. So I quit and I was kind of floundering. I was like, well. And at that time though, who was it? So the X was happening?

The X was happening and the Weirdos. It was kind of an exciting time. It was great. L.A. was great during that era. And the punk scene, too? Yeah, just the Alleycats and so many cool bands. Right, right. The Bags and just so many great bands.

And it was a real, it reminded me of growing up in Austin because, like, in Austin, I wasn't a snob. I'd go, like, dancing to a country band. I'd go see a blues band. I'd go see the cover rock band. So in L.A., when I moved here, there was, like, you know, the Skinny Tie, like, power pop bands. Sure. Like the 2020 and The Know and all these cool bands and then there was like the blasters and the rockabilly bands levi and and and uh the rip chords and then there was the the punk bands

and then the artsy kind of punk bands and then the hardcore so there was such a variety and spectrum of music which i i was took to because that's how I grew up sure it was all happening at that point yeah it was before things started to sort of branch out yeah and the message and it was really organic

yeah like those organic scenes and there was no hair metal yet no almost no how did now let's go over this moment

because I think it's a great moment where you know you're just like toiling away writing your songs and playing with this band you break up the band no no no they stayed they're still like they they went on the tones of the text tones yeah yeah i just left you left and you didn't know what was going to happen or what you were going to do no i thought i thought i was i i had no no doubts there's something about

being young and i don't know i had no doubts like you just something about being young. I don't know. I had no doubts. You just knew. There's something about once you commit to something, I know it with comedy as well, that either you're going to always have a plan B in your head or you're not. Yeah. And you weren't that kind of person. I didn't have a plan B. And I wasn't either.

Yeah. It was just sort of like, this is going to have to. And I don't know if it's youth or what, but I just was like, no. I think it's a way of thinking. You just didn't see another option for yourself. But also, I was always really determined. Like, I think anything I decided, I think I would have done well at. I really do.

I'm sure. Yeah. Because it's like this need to be like, I matter. I matter. I matter. And I'm going to show you I matter. And it's all like, it's like who you want to matter to is your dad or your mom. Right.

But I noticed that in the book too, because I definitely related to that when you got sober, that there's a certain sort of like, well, I'm going to do this. Like, if it wasn't for me being competitive about my day count, I don't know if I would have stayed sober. Because once I got in- I'll show them. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm going to be the best. Yeah. Yeah. Or at least I'm going to win. Yeah. Somehow. I know. It's a good quality and maybe it comes from negative circumstances, but it's-

It can bite you in the ass, but sure, it's a good quality. I think it is. And I told my dad on his deathbed, my dad was like, oh, I'm sorry, all this stuff. And I said, you know, don't be sorry. I go, if you had been there, you would have never let me do what I did. You would have made me go to college and you would have this and that. And I was like, my life went the way it did. And a lot of it's because you weren't there, you know? How did he take that? I think he died the next day. I think it let him think it released him that's not funny but i think it like gave him i think it absorbed like i don't know you absolved him yeah in a weird way he was living in it yeah i think he because we got to we got close in the last eight months of his life

like really close and uh we had a lot of serious talks because he was lucid through through his last breath but but you were able to close that, like as a sober person to take, you know, understanding how to handle that stuff. It was really, and I said, this is our journey. This is our journey, you know, and it was a really magical and healing and heartbreaking time. But it was a wonderful conversation to say, like, yeah, I go, I'm not going to say it didn't affect me not having a dad. But I said I had good relationships. I had good men in my life.

I wasn't, I mean, I guess, I don't know. I just am really practical. I didn't die, you know. I'm okay. Well, that's nice, man. It's nice that you were able to get that, to let him off the hook. Yeah, I think it's important. Okay, so you're kind of in between bands.

Yeah. And you don't really, you know, you're driven, but you don't know what's next. You kind of, all throughout the book, you're sort of like, I knew, know i had to make something happen something had to give yeah yeah and what's your use what's your drug use at that point um i was doing well alcohol has always been my main thing and i think i really like cocaine because i could drink longer but like at the time you met charlotte i was doing like drinking always drinking and then when I could get my hands on it, I would do blow. Yeah. So what, what was the moment? Like what, what happened? Walk me through that meeting with her? Well, I was at, it was Christmas night and there's this amazing flyer

that's from the whiskey that has like Susie Quatro, who was my first like person. Your hero. Yeah. That made me go, I can be your role model yeah and then there was uh some of my friends bands and then there was x playing that night and then there was my first show that so that on one flyer from the it's in my book it's such a cool flyer it's like about my whole life to see x at that time must have been pretty much great well they ruled you know and they still do they're still i mean amazing to me um but yeah i was my mom had come out to visit i'm like staying up on sunset plaza at a friend's house and uh she's out of town and i'm just christmas with my mom and then i go down to the whiskey to see x and i see charlotte from the gogos and

she's like hey what do you play bass and i'm like yeah but you didn't right no but i mean it's not like i had never held one sure sure i know i get you play guitar you can say yes that's what i figured sure and then she just like says well our bass player is sick and we got some we got four shows at the whiskey coming up and i was just like ding ding ding ding yeah yeah i was like oh yeah i'll do it i'll do it and um i went home right away and just like my, all gears were just churning. Sure. And I was like, called her the next day, get me a cassette. Yeah, yeah.

And I borrowed a bass and I learned their whole set and it became clear. And I had seen the Go-Go's. I'd seen them when I first moved to LA. What did you think of them? When I first moved to LA, I didn't take them seriously. And then I saw them when they came back from England, and Gina Schock had joined as the drummer. And I was like, oh, okay, this band is cool. But I didn't know their song.

I wasn't like a fan where I went to every show or anything. But listening to that rehearsal tape and learning their songs, I was like, man, I like this band. I like these songs., I like this band. I like these songs. This is a good band. And as soon as I got in a room with them, it was like everything I'd ever looked for. It's like I wanted to be in an all-female band. I wanted to be in a band that got somewhere, like all the bands I looked up to. There was no women bands.

And I was just like, so to me, it was like it just checked off every box of everything I'd wanted. And I fell in love. Yeah. I fell in love with that band. And was it, yeah, was it? I would have played the freaking tambourine. I would have done anything at that point to be in that band. I just loved them.

And it took, how long did it take to really click? Oh, right away. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like within, I don't know what happened, but after eight shows at the Whiskey, and the press talked about the shows, and within like maybe at the most two weeks,

I'm just like, in my mind, I'm just like, I got to be in this band. And then they asked me to stay, and I was like, yep, yep. Wow. And then four months later, we had a record deal. It's interesting, though. It didn't happen overnight. And it was a real struggle because of the perception of women. Correct? Well, it was what our manager was told repeatedly

was there's, it's cool, good band. We can see that they're popular, but there's never been a successful, that's what they would say, successful all-female band. I felt like they saw it as a novelty or something. Yeah, and we weren't considered a novelty. I mean, I write in the book, like on our first tour, we did everything and everybody, nobody passed on us. Like every radio person, they,

and it wasn't like they wanted to meet us so they could add us to the programming. I just wanted to see, I wanted to like be, see what we were like. Yeah. So there was a something about the novelty that appealed to people, but it didn't help in terms of getting a record deal or getting airplay or that's what people don't realize like i i wrote in the book i don't even know if i realize stuff so i meticulously happens with the process of writing yeah because you're and when you're procrastinating like you still want to feel like you're doing shit

so you're like researching and getting everything right so i know you learn you learn things about yourself because you you have to they come out of you. Yeah. And you put things together, right? Yeah. And the first thing I did before I started was I made playlists of every song of every year. So, and I would just play it while I was writing because the music took me right back to that minute. No kidding. Oh, yeah. Like every, every, it just never failed. It's like, oh, that's how I felt. I know how I felt because I'm listening to this.

And that's what I was listening to then. But also like the kind of detail you put into, you know, showing, you know, not just getting the record deal. But once the record was out, how you had to slog that thing, you know, get out there. The amount of promo you had to do and the amount of time it takes back then to sort of mine a record for hits, to make hits. time it takes that back then to sort of mine a record for hits to make hits yeah and this sort of you know serendipitous creation of mtv and that you were there at the beginning of what really defined them in terms of making you know uh hits yeah that's that's i think that's one of the reasons we succeeded because it was the rogue djs the college djs mtv saturday night live like was huge for us but like you had like it was this was vinyl records and you had to hit everything and you

had to sell those pieces yeah record yeah and it just kept building i didn't realize until i really read and i just read jerry wex for his autobiography but you know but but the amount of time it took to make that record a hit, to get- Nine months it took to get Our Lips Are Sealed, the first single. It took nine months of solid touring for it to go to like 26. Isn't that, that's crazy to me. Nine months, and we never saw it. And then it was Saturday Night Live and MTV that took it over the top? That and opening for The Police.

So it was like- Ah, right. It was like just that synchronicity of things that kind of and then people i mean fans like and for us it wasn't like like every even when we're in a van and playing all the clubs that circuit of clubs that every band hits yeah they were sold out i mean so you feel like you're succeeding compared to where you come from like a sold-out club in atlanta or a sold-out club and you know minnesota or minneapolis is like um that's like success sure like what makes you think that you can go do that everywhere so i call it pinnacles of success because every

little thing along the way to me was like my dream had come true. Right. And so it's not like you're sitting around waiting for a hit. To me, it felt like it was just to be able to be on tour. To be popular, to be in a great band. Yeah, to be making a record in New York City. And John Belushi took a liking to you? Yeah, and people that are icons loving your band. It's like there's so much good shit happening. The last thing you're worried about is whether you have a hit.

Yeah. You know? Right. And how was Belushi? Great guy? So great. Yeah. Yeah.

Great guy. It's like it was so it was it's interesting in sort of the one of the through lines of the book is you, you know, sort of not realizing you have a drug problem, even though it wasn't massive, but a few people around you went down. Yeah. But you couldn't compare yourself to that because you weren't a dope person or whatever. Yeah. I felt like, oh, I don't know. I think that's part of what an alcoholic addict does is they look at everybody else and think that they're worse.

I was one of those people. I don't do heroin. Yeah. It's not my bag. everybody else and think that they're worse. I was one of those people. I don't do heroin. It's not my bag. Yeah. You think that they're worse. And plus you're fun. I was fun. Yeah. I don't know how you would know unless you asked Charlotte about it, because it seemed like everyone else was partying as well. But do you really have a sense of how much your substance abuse and alcoholism affected the decisions the bands made around you? Well, looking back, what I realized is that it made me a stunted, emotional infant. I mean, I was just like, I had no capacity for compassion or empathy or for understanding what someone else was going through and there's things i think my my drinking definitely affected the band even if it was i can only be responsible for my part but there was people right next to me

who i considered my sisters that were going through things that it just like went. Yeah. Because you were worried about yourself. It's like, you know, it's like, it's just like you're just a teenager and you're. Self-obsessed. They say when you start drinking like an alcoholic that you. That's when you stop. Yeah.

And like when you get sober, you're at the emotional. So when I got sober, I was like a 14-year-old emotionally. Yeah, I buy that. So once you guys are rising and become this huge band, it seems that you didn't think it would ever end. Oh, I never thought it would end. I mean, for everyone but me and Gina Gina it was their first band pretty much Charlotte had been in a band but it was there but Gina and I had been like we'd been trying to make it well for a year like four years four years and you're like 22 yeah exactly so but to me it was

like nobody would ever and like to me the main focus of my life was to keep it because this span represented not only my dream come true and getting to do all this stuff, but it meant I could take care of myself. And no one had ever taken care of me. And to be able to really take care of yourself was huge to me. It was like, I have security now. I never felt secure. And through the agreements with IRS records and whatever was going on, you felt that you were compensated properly? Yeah. Oh, yeah. You guys did good.

Oh, yeah. I mean, for the time, yeah. And yeah, I mean, to me, I was poor growing up. So to me, like, I mean, when I joined the band, we were getting like our rent paid in 40 bucks a week. By the label? No, by just the band. And I was getting unemployment. And like, I thought, this is great. And then you got off unemployment. Yeah. And then I got like $1,500 a month, you know, when we started doing better and i like so to me just getting anything and the contracts were good the publishing it seemed like was like divvied up pretty well well everyone was smart to keep their publishing yeah you know so we all the songwriters kept their publishing

and our the deals were as good as what they i mean we just renegotiated our our royalty rate for with uh the people that own the masters now. Just now? Yeah. Yeah. Because it's a deal that's from like 1980. Interesting. Yeah.

And do the songs still make money? Oh, yeah. Really? Yeah, I've been making money off vacation for like 40 years. It's crazy. No, it's not always. It might be like six grand one year.

But like if a commercial uses it? Yeah, if a commercial happens, it's like... And when you're like broke, because I've been up and down in this business. And when you're broke, you're just like, come on, come on. Somebody make a commercial. And it never happens. But when you're not broke, it's like all comes. So we're like universal law. Yeah, and I think it was sort of interesting that this idea, like I'd like to talk a little bit about how, you know, all the kind of soup of different styles that you came out of in L.A.

And the fact that punk wasn't that far behind you guys, that you did represent a kind of a new mode, like something, an accessible sort of uh punky like it wasn't it wasn't really new wave because you guys were rock but there was something that represented everything that was going on at that time i think so and i think that like i really don't think the go-go's get a lot of credit for just being an indie band like forget being the first i mean don't forget but besides being the first all-female band that had a number one record that that wrote and performed and everything, we were also one of the first indie bands to get huge. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

And after us, there was like REM and, you know, they got big labels because like a lot of the big labels looked at IRS and what they were doing. IRS was our little label. Yeah. and what they were doing. IRS was our little label. Yeah. And I think a lot of bands benefited from our success, and I don't know if we get credit for that. Well, you know, we never get the credit we should.

No, we got to tell them. Get a big sandwich board. There's still a little alcoholic thinking in there. It's like, how come there's no plaque? Where's mine? Exactly. God damn it. Doesn't that go away? Where's mine? Exactly. God damn it. Doesn't that go away?

Come on, 31 years. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's not even the, I think it's just the age. It's like you get to be like, I mean, you just get to a point where it's like, why are you even doing it? It's not like you're trying to be the most relevant person in the world. But it's like you're just doing it. It's not like you're trying to be the most relevant person in the world, but it's like, you're just doing it because that's what you do. And like the validation just isn't that important. I hope so. I mean, I get that. Well, that's another vibe I get throughout

the book where it's just like, it took you a long time to let that shit go, man. Oh yeah. So you got the big hit record. Then you do another record with your song on it, Vacation, which is also a big hit, but it didn't sell as much as the first record. Yeah. And when you went out on the road, it was a little different. But you guys played Madison Square Garden. Yeah. You did big deals.

The second record didn't sell as many, but we were touring at our peak. We were headlining arenas. So it didn't feel that bad. Right. That you sold two million instead of four million. that bad right that you sold two million instead of four million um but the third record i have i call it the chapter is called shrinking and sinking because you're playing now you're selling hundreds of thousands like if we'd started like that yeah that's fine right but when you go from millions you start feeling like you're like you're uh on the decline and it's it's a sad story but

it's not an unusual story yeah in rock and roll really right yeah i mean it's, it's a sad story, but it's not an unusual story. Yeah. In rock and roll. Really? Right? Yeah. I mean, it's hard to follow up, uh, uh,

the first hit record and certainly the second hit record. Cause yeah, you know, the, I guess the expectation either becomes, I keep repeating yourself or let's try to find lightning in a bottle again. I mean, in general,

right? Well, we wanted, we went through a phase with the third record where, where it became like really important that we be taken seriously you know and I think like we toured in what way I don't know I mean like I that was the other thing I was like you know your regret around not selling out in a way like you know when you guys had opportunities when your songs were huge to be used in in marketing you guys were like everyone democratically decided we don't want to sell out and then like all of a sudden you see i remember when lou reed did that fucking vespa ad yeah and i was like what the fuck is happening yeah but now there's no shame at all to a degree it's just part of the business it's part of your personal

branding well it's like unfortunately you know marketing, marketing and that has just permeated every aspect of life. That's right. Right. And a musician is going to, like any artist, they're going to do what you can to do your art. Right. And to make money if you want to make money. Yeah. But then by the time you guys decided to do it, it was already-

Suzuki. Suzuki, yeah. It was like a big flop. But tell me about this idea that you wanted to be taken seriously on the third record. Yeah, I don't know. We were just kind of consumed with that. I think there was a backlash from just being, it's like these frothy. I mean, I have all the press, and when I was writing the book, I'm looking,

and I'm like, they just keep saying these things like bouncy and frothy and cute. And I'm just like, really? We're just like a rock and roll band. And I think we were kind of backlashing against that and just wanted to be taken seriously. So they thought you were cute. That's what they would say just because we're girls. A gimmick or a novelty or whatever. I don't know what it was.

It was just like, I mean, and I've talked to journalists that say, well, you guys weren't exactly doing stuff to counter that. I'm like, well, what? We were just being ourselves. Like, what would we do to counter it? And sometimes it's like, you'd go to a photo session and they'd have a stylist and they'd be like, oh, we thought you could wear this. And a lot of times we'd be like, no, fuck that. We're not doing that. But a lot of times you'd be like, yeah, whatever. You just want to go back to your hotel room. Right. Whatever's going to make it fast.

Yeah, and then there's some dumb pictures out in the world. Oh, there's some hideous pictures. Like unbelievably hideous pictures where we're like being dressed up like little dolls. Yeah. You know? So on those first two tours, on the first two records, I mean, you guys toured the first two records i mean you guys

toured the world i mean you did a lot of dates right yeah yeah we did a lot of like that was you put the hours in we didn't say no i think it took it took till like we broke up and got back together which isn't in this book but it took us like till we were in our 30s to like understand that you can say no and go no we're not doing that so when you did finally like when things started to come unglued it was around that third record right yeah things were just falling apart like crazy because people wanted to do their own thing or what just a whole bunch of stuff i mean definitely the the the alcohol and stuff was playing a play and the drugs but you know, Jane quit the band.

And it's like chemistry. You take one crucial element out and the chemistry is different. And all I cared about was like, we got to keep going. We got to keep this together. Okay, Jane's leaving, but we're going to fix it. We're going to fix it. And you couldn't see being without them. Couldn't see it.

I mean, I was by that time I was completely wrapped up. I was like, I wasn't even, there wasn't even, like you couldn't have said, hey, you used to go see the T-Birds in Austin. It was like, I was go, go Kathy. And thank God I learned, like I realized that I'm me, you know, but after losing it all, but thank goodness i lost it all but at the time that's all i wanted was to keep the band and well the buzz of being that big must have been amazing the sort of cachet and entree you had into worlds that you didn't have before and and then just the the touring and the money and the i wanted long i just wanted to be like i wanted to be the stones you know i wanted to be around for albums and grow.

I think that was an interesting observation you made in the book about how they weren't, this idea that like, why can't someone else sing it? Why can't someone else play it? You probably should have let that happen. We should have grown and changed, but we were really rigid. And again, going back at that time when it fell apart one of the first things that made it fall apart was jane said i want to sing a song right we're like no no this isn't the way the band is that seems crazy to me yeah now but yeah you look back at that but in

that moment do you do you understand the reasoning that went into you guys thinking well we started thinking like well what if everybody wants to sing a song? Yeah, what if? And then what's Belinda going to do? Belinda's the star. She's the singer. Why was that established like that? Because it was working, and it's just the way it was. It's just the way it was. And I didn't mind.

I mean, I had a template in my mind of the Stones, you know, the Stones. Yeah, but Keith always sang a couple, and he played bass on some shit. Yeah, but we just, you know, and we didn't have a lot of guidance by that point either our our long-term manager was gone we had like suits basically managing managing us and we weren't guided we were like like unparented right and uh no one really keeping you know by that time i think they were like glad to see us break up because then they could just focus on the star and get rid of these other ones. They're just a pain in the ass. So so once Jane left, you guys tried to keep the band together.

Yeah. We brought someone else. Yeah, we brought someone in. And I moved to guitar, which was like my I was like happy about because I wanted to play. I like playing guitar. I like playing bass, too. But, you know, if I if there was an opening yeah I would take that one yeah and um so yeah and we we just tried but Charlotte got sober and came back and I didn't get it I thought oh good she's back and we're gonna go on now with sober Charlotte yeah but I didn't realize at the time how

it was asking way too much for a newly sober person to just jump in with all these dysfunctional well, and I shouldn't lump everyone because pretty much. You? Well, I'm not going to tell other people a story. Right, right, sure. But I was definitely like, why, I couldn't see

like, why wouldn't you want to go write songs with me? Don't worry, I won't do any blow in front of you. Yeah, yeah, sure. That thing we all do. Are you okay if I? Yeah. You don't mind if I drink, do you? Yeah, that kind of thing. So, didn't work. foresee like if you told me like hey in 2020 you're still going to be relevant and people your music's still going to matter and you're still going to have a career that is a part of your life but isn't your life i mean if i'd known that i would have been like yeah good right but at the time it just felt like that was like it and it was all going to end. But I mean, it's insane. This band has. But it did end though.

I mean, you, I mean, it's like, yeah, I mean, you know, things have like ebbed and flowed and things have happened, but I mean, you know, you were fucked for years after that. Yeah. And, and, you know, in the, you know, I can't imagine the amount of booze and drugs and men that, you know, especially someone with your compulsion, what it took to keep those demons at bay, just the resentment demons or the jealousy demons. You write about Belinda's career taking off.

It's fucking that kind of bile and heart-crushing jealousy. It's just it's fucking that kind of like bile and like heart crushing jealousy is just horrendous. Well, except I can't say that it was jealousy and stuff. What it was more like was I it was just like what you were saying. It's like I deserve it, too. I've never begrudged anybody else success. And I because I know what kind of work goes into it. So it wasn't so much I was eaten alive with jealousy. But what it was was like I deserve my shot, too. I'm good kind of work goes into it. So it wasn't so much I was eaten alive with jealousy, but what it was, was like, I deserve

my shot too. I'm good. Where's mine? Yeah. Where's mine? You know, and I'm, I'm working my ass off. I'm putting a band together and we're a good band and I'm playing at the clubs and I'm starting over and I'm doing everything the right way.

And, and I've got big producers and I've got big people like that believe in me. So there's some real heartbreak in that stuff. Yeah. When the singing just didn't work out. And just like, ugh. Oh, it was painful. It was so painful because I just wanted to be in a band. And then that horrible thing that happens in your new house.

Yeah, yeah. What the fuck was that? It was crazy. It was like what they call a home invasion robbery now, but back then it was just insanity. But you guys were just partying or you were sleeping? Yeah, we partied. It was you and Charlie?

Me and Charlie Sexton and Carlene Carter, and we stayed up writing songs, just having a good old time, and probably conked out around dawn. And then a few hours later, a guy, and I don't know what he's doing at the top of sunset plaza it's like i mean how did the hell do you get up there yeah and but he apparently came into the house and woke up woke they were in my guest room and and then proceeded to terrorize us and and psychologically just like it was i mean i'll never forget it i still cry i mean i didn't cry

till i wrote about it and it seemed very bizarre what how it can't he went about doing all this shit yeah it was crazy and like i wrote he ties you guys up yeah he tied us up and uh he he like threatened us and he's he's then he said he was going to kidnap me, and he got butcher knives from my kitchen that he was going to, I guess, put in our backs or something. And I had a struggle with him. And I just kept—your mind is just churning. And what you don't realize is how you're just ingrained from the time you're a kid. Like, be good. Do what you're told.

You won't get in trouble. You won't get punished. But you're also—so that's be good, do what you're told, you won't get in trouble, you won't get punished. But you're also, so that's all there. And then I got to survive, I got to survive. I got two people. I'm sure he's by himself. We can take him. Come on, guys, let's take him. No, do what he, so you can't get everyone, like, you can't do it by yourself. And you ended up running out. I ended up pretending like I was tied up, but I wasn't. And so my only thing, they were tied up, my friends, and he kept wandering around the house and stealing stuff.

And I just. He sounded like a crazy person. I think he was a crazy person. But he was also, I think he had a military background because he kept using terms. But I wrote a song. I did a soundtrack to this book. When I was done, I just didn't feel done. And I wrote a song about that chapter. And I just

was sobbing when I wrote. It's weird. Writing the music opened things up on a deeper level. So you wrote a bunch of original music for the soundtrack? Yeah, I got to give it to you. Yeah. And the same with the chapter where I got raped. I just wrote about it. I'm like, oh, this sucked, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then I wrote the song. When was that?

When did that happen? That was like 14. I was 14 and I hitchhiked to Houston and got in a bad situation. But in my mind, it was never rape because I'd gotten myself in a bad situation

and the guy wasn't leaving me alone. So I finally just said, just do it. So I wrote the song called Just Do It. And as soon as I wrote the lines, if I can't stop you, I can let you, like just like trying to get that power of being powerless. And it was like a key that unlocked that 14 year old thing. And I, for three days, I was like a mess. I was like sobbing and mourning. Like, why was anybody fucking taking care of me? Why was anybody looking out for me? Why wasn't this guy leaving me alone? You know? And what I wrote in the book was like, I was promiscuous. It wasn't like I

didn't have sex and it was all really a memorable bad sex. But that was the only time I never forgot because I sobbed. I was crying the whole time, which was a bummer for him. Yeah. Well, but because you realized you'd been, you know, I didn't want to do it. I didn't. I mean, the other times I had had sex, it might've been for maybe I liked him or maybe I just didn't give a shit or maybe I was just fucked up and there was nothing to do. But it was always because I was like okay with it. Right. But that was the one time I wasn't okay with it. And even in the 70s where everybody was just having sex a lot, it was just in a box.

It was just buried. And I wrote about it. It was just in a box. It was just buried and I wrote about it and then I wrote the song and I'm scared to do the song in public. I'm scared I'll just cry. Every time I do it, I cry.

But that's okay. Eventually. I think it's uncomfortable for people when you just start crying. I guess that's, maybe it's true. Okay.

What if you were doing a show and you started crying? I've cried before publicly and I, you know, you can choke it back. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, I do comedy, so it's a little different.

But, I mean, like. Yeah, it would be really bad. No, it's funny. I tell you. Just wait a minute. Just wait a minute. But, so, between, you know, that horrible event and then, you know, the break-in, I mean, that's heavy shit, man. It was like that was like something that I had PTSD for years.

And, you know, I'm still friends with Charlie and Carlene, and we still talk about what- How horrible it was? Oh, yeah. It was like we thought we were going to die. Yeah. We thought we were going to die. Oh, my God. We thought we were going to be murdered at the top of Sunset Plaza.

You might have been. Well, that's what the police told me when they came. And I was like, I just kept talking to him. I just kept talking to him. Did I do the right thing? And the cop's like, you're alive. You did the right thing. Yeah.

Because to me, I just kept thinking, I got to be human. I got to be a human being. And I kept joking with him. Interesting. I was like, he'd say like, where's the drugs? Where's the drugs? And I'd be like, oh, you should have come by a few hours ago. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

I just kept trying to be like real person. So this is during the period where you don't have a band anymore. Yeah, that's 85 that happened. So I like that you moving towards hitting bottom involved some more heroes in a way. Because you were still pretty fucked up when somehow or another you managed to meet Keith Richards finally. Yeah. And it's so funny because when I met him, when I interviewed Keith Richards, I hadn't smoked in a decade. Did you ask for a cigarette?

Well, I did. But I was on nicotine lozenges. I just wanted to hold it because he was smoking reds. So I'm just fucking holding it and he's smoking. And at some point during the interview, he threw a lighter at me and I fucking lit it. And I hadn't smoked in a decade. And I thought in my head, well, I'm on the nicotine lozenges. I'm not going to get hooked.

And then you were hooked right away, right? No. But I was happy to smoke my one cigarette in a decade would keep. No, I stayed on the nicotine lozenges. Oh, that's good. Yeah, I didn't go back to cigarettes. See, I'm like, if I smoked one now, I'd be smoking it back. Well, I was on nicotine lozenges for a decade, man.

I'm six months off of that shit, and I'm going squirrely right now. Oh, that's great, though. I'm full of rage and insanity. Yeah, but nicotine, it's really bad. It's fucked, man. And what I realize is how much it keeps you a wall away from connecting with people. Unfortunately, when you remove that wall from me, it's usually a lot of hostility. You might want that wall up.

I'm dealing with it right now. I'm squirreling out. I don't know why. It's hard. It's uncomfortable. It hits me like six months in. I always start up something. Smoke a cigar, get back on the nicotine or something.

I think this might be the longest I've been with like nothing. Nothing. So how are you doing different? What are you doing different? I didn't start doing something different. I'm not doing enough different. I got to go to a fucking meeting tonight or something. I don't want to drink or nothing, but I'm fucking squirrely.

Yeah, I know that. I get really uncomfortable just being in my skin. It feels itchy, like from the inside. I just get really uncomfortable. Yeah. And the older you get, the worse it gets because then you're getting uncomfortable about like real shit that's probably going to happen to you.

So then you pile that on there. The real shit problem. Yeah, it's like, oh, I got a stomachache. What does that mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, oh on there. The real shit problem. Yeah. It's like, oh, I got a stomachache. What does that mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I've got a toothache. I'm going to get, my brain's going to get infected. Oh yeah. You don't even think about good stuff. It's all about like dental work and pooping when you're past 60. That's for sure. Yeah. Is everything working? Yeah. Everything okay? What is that lump? What is that?

Was that spot there? So you meet Keith. I couldn't believe it because I thought I'd meet him when we got to open for the Stones. Yeah. I thought I'd meet him then and it didn't happen. And it's like, I've been pretty good most of my life. I just think of people. If I meet somebody, I don't want to be like, oh, I saw you at this concert. Sure.

Yeah, have a real moment. Yeah. So I've always kind of just remembered they're just people. And if you want to, you just talk about something. And to actually meet him and then tell him about my guitar. Oh, yeah, that you're going to leave it to him. Yeah. And then later, in the 90s, I got to cross paths with him a couple.

He actually played that Strat. He did? Yeah, he played it. Where at? I was at Don Woz's studio. And at one point, I was like, I go, everyone, every guy I know that I've said, show me something on the guitar. Will you show me a couple of your favorite licks?

Yeah. It didn't fall in the time frame of this story, but it was my favorite Keith. And what did he play? What did he show you? Well, we were talking, I was really, really into blues, like really going deep into blues.

Yeah. So he was like, do you know this? And I'd be like, yeah, I've learned that one. Yeah. And I'd say like, do you know Frankie Lee Sims?

And he'd be like, yeah, Lucy May Blues. Yeah, yeah. It was just like bonding on like Texas blues. Oh, that's great. It was really cool. Oh, that's beautiful. And it's not like, I, Lucy May Blues. Yeah, yeah. It was just like bonding on Texas blues. Oh, that's great. It was really cool. Oh, that's beautiful.

And it's not like, I don't know if he saw me. I don't know if he'd be like, hey, Kath. But still, for me, it was good enough as a lifelong fan. Yeah. And then your bottom somehow managed to involve Johnny Thunders somehow. Yeah, my last drunk, I blacked out. And I wasn't a big blackout drinker. I had really bad hangovers by that time that would make me, I would wake up sometimes. Because when I would drink, I would just do things that I normally wouldn't do.

I'd do drugs I normally wouldn't do. I'd have sex with people I normally wouldn't have sex with. And so I woke up with a lot of shame and physical horror, but I didn't have a lot of blackouts. And that was the second blackout that I'd had. And it was a really bad hangover. And I just was done. I was done. That was it.

And someone had planted the seed, Carlene. Carlene had gotten sober. A lot of people, I guess, in your life had gotten sober, but you may not have known all of them at that time yeah i did i mean charlotte and i weren't friends at that time i mean i called charlotte four months into my sobriety i still had her phone number in my brain i'm like i'm sober that's a great like you know but before i uh go into the sober part how was it seeing johnny thunder's wife oh well i would get sit. I was blocked out while he played, but I always got to sit in the rehearsal and I'd seen him other places too. I mean, I'm a big Johnny Thunders fan. I mean, he was just like, some people are just the real deal. So when you, when you had the moment of clarity where you found the window to, to make the decision to go to a meeting. How was your resolve?

You wrote a nice little passage on that mixture of everything about who you are wants to keep using, but you can't anymore. Well, it's like, it was like, I felt so bad. It was easy when I made the decision, but the next day I felt a little better. And immediately the doubt was like, well, maybe I should, maybe I should. Yeah, I can still use it. Maybe I should felt a little better. And immediately the doubt was like, well, maybe I should. Yeah, I can still use it. Maybe I should wait a little while. I'll do this tomorrow. I'll do it next week.

I'll get back to L.A. first. And I was just so demoralized with my life and my inability to make anything happen. I was putting bands together and people were giving me breaks and nothing was happening. Oh, the sad story about playing gigs where no one was showing up. Yeah, and it's like, I was getting,

I had things, but nothing was working out. Nothing. And even like having a great boyfriend, that wasn't working, nothing was working. Anything good wasn't working. Nothing, nothing bad, nothing good. And I i just there was just something about that thought like if i stop drinking one thing will change and if one thing changes maybe that's enough to fucking feel better about my life oh wow and it's like so i didn't want to even though i felt better and thought

well maybe i'll wait part of me was able to hold on to that thought. Like, no, one thing's going to change. You're going to make this, this is this. You can do this. You can change this one thing. Yeah. You can't get a career. You can't make your band happen.

You can't. Right. You can't be financially secure. You can't be happening and all that. But you can do this. And that'll change. And it was like the, it like the foundation of everything good. I mean, I'm sitting here now because I got sober.

Yeah. I have a daughter now because I got sober. I'm surrounded by loved ones, and I get to be in the Go-Go's, and I get to throw my guitar in the car and go play a gig at the Continental Club. And I get to do all this shit because I'm sober and it's like it's like the best thing but yeah going back to that moment i think what i said was like there's something divine about it there's a divine moment and if you blow it off and i've seen it happen i've seen a lot of people where they, like I was real close. I was right at that point. Like, I'll go back to L.A. and then I'll get sober.

And who knows whether you're going to make it. That's right. And it's still a day at a time for a lot of people. That was like a life-changing moment to realize that I could lose my sense of self and come back. lose my sense of self and come back. Well, right, because you had all this sort of like, you know, insane trauma and PTSD and emotional stifling of a lifetime. Stuffed down, yeah.

Yeah, but like, you know, and it all had to come, you know, flying out of you. And when it happened, I mean, I'd been sober for like, I guess, nine months or something. When that happened? It was terrifying. It was like absolutely terrifying. But I think like what I said was,

the first thing was, I got to know I can have a good time. Because I associated every good time with drinking. I like that stuff. The first thing was, if I can have a good time, I can do this. That took a while. I didn't have a good time for a while.

I was just hanging in there. I don't know if I have a good time. I can do this. That took a while. I didn't have a good time for a while. Yeah. I was just hanging in there. I don't know if I have a good time in general. Come on. I do okay sometimes. You know what I mean? I like to, but even with me, it's like most of the good feelings come from like stuff that's compulsive. Yeah.

You know, like eating or what, you know what I mean? Or like buying a thing, getting a new guitar, you know? No, I'm still, it's uncomfortable being a human it's just it is i'm i'm terrible it's and i have fucking food issues i'm fucking squirrely as shit man me too i like it i'm really ritualistic like where i'll do the same thing every day until like i replace it with something else yeah like i gotta have, this bagel. Right. Every day. But don't, don't you ever just sort of like a fuck it and just eat a pie?

No. That's good. But, but I'll, but I do have issues with food, but I mean, I'm really, I mean,

my daughter, like she came home one day and I was like peeling the paint off the wall, like, like strip by strip. And she's like, mom, and I would go out and do it like all the time. And she'd come. What do you mean do it? For what reason? Just because I was like obsessive.

Like, I don't know why I just had to peel it off. And she'd be like, mom, are you peeling the pain again? I'd be like, yeah, you should try it. She kind of starts peeling. She goes, this is weird. You're weird. But she tried. So what ultimately happened with the girls, the go-go's, like after all said and done, you guys are okay now? We're like actually levels of okay that I didn't even know about could happen. How many times have you guys gotten back together? Well, a lot of people don't realize this, but we broke up in 85. We got back in 90. We did a tour.

We broke up for like four years. From like 95, almost all the way to 2012, we toured a lot. We did a lot of cool shit. We played at Muhammad Ali's Fight for Life thing. We paid at the Kennedy Compound. We were on Mardi Gras floats.

All kinds of opportunities that aren't in the public eye. The original lineup. Oh, yeah. So this happened, and we tour in the summer. We tour at the B-52s. Do fun tours. We've had a really good career for a long time, but it was a part of our life. It wasn't the whole life.

The musical on Broadway came out in 2017 and I was a part of it. The Go-Go's musical? Yeah. Did it last? It lasted six months on Broadway and now it's like at 200, like high schools are doing it.

It's really cool. It's really cool. It's all over the country. Do you make money off of that? No. No, there's like so many investors that will get paid before I ever see it. I mean, we made a little bit when it was on Broadway because we were the composers. Right.

It was all our music. Oh, sure, yeah. So that happened. And then this documentary got made that's going to be on Showtime and it premiered at Sundance. that's going to be on Showtime, and it premiered at Sundance. That documentary has opened up another level of healing and just really kind of loving each other. It's a pretty amazing journey. Is everyone around? Where are they?

Everyone's spread out. Belinda's in Bangkok, Jane is in Mexico, Charlotte's here, and Gina's in San Francisco, and I'm in Texas. Bangkok and Mexico? Yeah. Charlotte's here. And Gina's in San Francisco. And I'm in Texas. Bangkok and Mexico? Yeah. Wild. Yeah. For what reason?

They like to experience life in different places. Okay. Yeah, you know. And what do you do when you go to the Continental? I go see bands in Austin. Do you play out there, though? Yeah, I have a band in Austin called the Blue Bonnets. You'd like it.

It's a total rock and roll band. And the guitar eve she grew up with gary clark jr and he always acknowledges her and she's a great guitar player and dominique and i she's the bass player and singer she's we've had bands since like 1992 i've had i mean i'm always in a band i'm always going to be in a band yeah i just-Go's are the famous band and the successful band, but I don't care. I just want to be in a band. So I play around Austin. We've got gigs coming up.

It's a rock and roll band. It's all females, and you would love it. I'm going to come see you when I'm in Austin. Okay, good. Thank you for talking. Thank you. Do you feel like we covered enough? This is awesome.

Thanks for doing it. Yeah. That was fun. I liked her. And that was, if you somehow just tuned in the middle, just started in the middle, that was Kathy Valentine from the Go-Go's. Remember, All I Ever Wanted comes out next Tuesday, March 31st. You can pre-order it now.

The Go-Go's documentary premiered at Sundance in January. It will be on Showtime later this year. My special, End Times Fun, continues to be on Netflix, along with my other two specials which I gather are getting a little juice because of the new one I don't think Thinky Payne has been in the rotation in a while

I fucking did that years ago but I think Thinky Payne Too Real, also directed by Lynn Shelton and the new one, End Times Fun directed by Lynn Shelton, who's still here in the room. You can watch them all.

And my buddy Tom Segura is on as well. I'm part of a cluster. Bert Kreischer, Hey Big Boy is on, and Ball Hog, Tom Segura's new one is on. We are like some sort of weird quarantine cluster of stand-up specials. And now I'm going to play the guitar through a pedal, which I don't usually do. Thank you. Boomer lives.