WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1113 - Fran Drescher

Episode Date: April 9, 2020

Fran Drescher has a distinctive personality, but she says it wasn’t until her forties that she truly figured out who she is. Fran talks with Marc about growing up in Queens, being very close to her parents, and marrying her high school sweetheart. It wasn’t until she created The Nanny, dealt with post-traumatic stress, and survived cancer that she felt she could truly be her own person. They also talk about Saturday Night Fever, This is Spinal Tap and Fran’s new show, Indebted. This episode is sponsored by SimpliSafe and Stamps.com. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing with cannabis legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category.

legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gate!

Alright, let's do this. How are you what the fuckers? What the fuckniks? What the fucksters? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast wtf we're in it man it i'll tell you the other day i fucking i went down it took a while but i went

down i just uh got submerged in a hopelessness and a lack of will in a disability inability to uh sway my brain for a while man for a while then i went back into i went from there to anger and then from there to a sort of strange but uh ever-present ptsd that's uh kind of been there since 2016 it was a rough day it was one of those days, man, where you just sort of, I've had enough of this staying indoors shit. I don't have a problem not going outside, but the fear and the sort of mundanity and sort of everything was just starting to kind of creep in and dismantle any sort of ability I had to be present and just deal. And then Wisconsin happened.

And that that tipped me over, man. That tipped me over. State Supreme Court, then the big Supreme Court, would not allow them to delay the election because of the pandemic. But it also just strangely suited the Republican legislature's desire to have as few people voting against their picks for the Supreme Court and other positions as possible. It was just one of those moments where you like, here's a portal into the future authoritarian stylings of America. I think that America's authoritarianism is going to be unique to America as it is anywhere else,

depending on the leader in the country. But on top of trying to do the right thing, being safe, taking myself out of circulation to protect myself and others, and just honoring that cautiousness. I live in a state where this fucking bug doesn't have a foothold as bad as other places because we've got a good governor here and a good mayor here. Real leaders did the right thing early on. And it's starting to look like it's having an effect in a positive way.

And then you've got people spinning this thing as some sort of anti-democratic plot on behalf of socialists or the Chinese or looking for blame, looking to spin it to blame Democrats or whatever. Unbelievable, shallow stupidity. God forbid we err on the side of caution when thousands of people are dying from a disease we don't quite understand yet. Self-actualization plus confidence does not equal intelligence. All these sort of seemingly people who present themselves as a strong people strong-willed people people who you know really see through the bullshit are the biggest suckers in the world

and they love conspiracy theories because they can't afford to be afraid or vulnerable so they pick whatever suits their anger and whatever has closure in a way where there's blame placed on somebody other than themselves or the people they believe in and they just go for it man sell that shit i wish these dumb motherfuckers would stop doubling down on bullshit control freaks and people that can't accept powerlessness on any level will gravitate towards any sort of validating garbage that makes themselves you know feel like they got a handle on shit and there's someone to point a finger at not the time to do that but maybe it doesn't fucking matter

and then i fucking find out that john Prine dies. John Prine was one of the most beautiful artistic spirits this country ever manifested. The real deal, man. He was the real deal. Just a great songwriter. An earnest singer. That just was able to find the heart and the humor and even the darkest of human stories through through song through music he's just a fucking genius and it wasn't all dark what isn't dark really you know, the celebration of the mundane, it's a poetic pursuit. But, you know, if you tip it one way, it's going to get dark.

And a lot of the portraits of people in his songs were struggling people, people who had hard times. But it was, for me, you know, getting to the heart and the humor of darkness. That's why I love comedy. why that's why i love comedy and that's why i love john prine and he was uh had some health troubles over the years not too long ago cancer some heart problems and got this coronavirus thing and it did him in he was 73 should have lived longer could have lived longer, is there somebody to blame for this disease? Is there somebody to blame for the infection? No, a disease is a disease.

Is there somebody to blame for the mismanagement of the response? Most definitely. Most definitely. Right at the top, baby. But I don't want to cloud an obituary with politics i just want to say that i love john prine i loved his music i had one of the best conversations with him that i've ever had on an episode of this show and And I reposted that. I find no. I hate.

Having to repost episodes. Because of that. But I love having the episodes. To put back out into the world. As a memorial to the person. That passed. John Prime was doing beautiful music up until just

a year ago or two. Still touring. His last record was beautiful. Aging with his craft and with his heart. It's a tough one, man. This guy, a fucking American original, I'll tell you that. it's a tough one man this guy a fucking American original

I'll tell you that man if you're curious about him you don't know John Prine check out his music go listen to that episode it was a gift it was a gift to me that I can now give back to you

rest in peace John Prine. So Fran Drescher is on the show today. I don't know if I brought that up. I got kind of carried away there. But Fran Drescher is with us. Fran Drescher, of course, who was The Nanny, a very influential show on many people a little younger than me. She's on an NBC sitcom called Indebted, which airs Thursday at 930, 830 Central. She was in Spinal Tap. She was in Saturday Night Fever. She was in The Hollywood Knights. She's sort of an archetype, an archetype of sorts, an archetype that I'm familiar with. I think I had an apprehension about having Fran on because there's a, you know, that something I grew up with, the cousins from Long Island, you know, it's a Jewish thing. It's a sort of a kind of slightly aggressive Semitic charm fortress.

You come up against that, but it's not it's not a bad thing. I have got cousins like that. I dated a woman like that. And Fran reminded me of those people. I did have a I did date a woman that was that reminded me a lot of Fran. And my my memories are not great of that. They're not they're not great memories. So I had slight PTSD heading into it, but mild, you know, mild. But I've always sort of had a crush on Fran Drescher. I always liked Fran Drescher. I always thought I understood Fran Drescher, but I didn't know her at all. And I'm not sure I do understand her, but I did talk to her today. Today, you can hear me talk to Fran Drescher. So what else is happening here at the house? Really, I did want to give you a heads up. There are people who are in my orbit who are making masks uh i don't know what state you know you're in or what's going on there um but we got to wear masks here and um there's a couple of places that are making

masks like my my friends over at love jewels leather are doingather are doing. These are people that sent me masks. These are not paid promotion, but I know they're manufacturing them. And Love Jewels Leather also has made available a pattern, a template through which add instructions to make your own mask. But you can find them on Instagram at Love Jewels, J-U-L-E-S,, leather, L-E-A-T-H-R, L-O-V-E-J-U-L-E-S, L-E-A-T-H-R. That was what they sent me a mask and it's very nice. But then there's another crew out there making masks, Headley and Bennett. They made a lovely mask and it's a denim mask. These are, I guess you could call them hipster face masks, but wasn't that bound to happen? You can see the Hedley and Bennett

masks if you go to Hedley and Bennett, H-E-D-L-E-Y and B-E-N-N-E-T-T at Instagram. So there's a couple of options. If you to if you want to make your own cut a shirt up use a bandana whatever it's now sort of become uh understood that uh having something's better than nothing some things are better than others all right but there's a couple mask options for you uh and you can find out where they're they're donating in terms of charity and what they're doing to help out because both of those companies are doing things to help out. I have to take my cat to the fucking vet and I'm losing my mind. It's been two days, man. And, you know, we were told here in L.A., even if it's essential, try not to go out.

And that's not stopping me. It's just fucking monkey, man. It's fucking monkey. I can't fucking deal with the process of taking these cats to the vet. He's an old-ass, skinny-ass man. Monkey is. He's got hyperthyroid. I give him pills for that.

Not a problem. But now he's got hyperthyroid i give him pills for that not a problem but now he's got this asthma trip going on and i guess i get i got him a steroid shot a few weeks ago maybe a month ago i'm not sure how long it's been but he's clearly needs another one he's having a hard time breathing now i wish i would have told you this story after i went i'd like to have that story but i don't have that story yet i do not yesterday i tried to get monkey and it got a little violent i didn't time it right i didn't have i didn't have the confidence that you need i've talked about this before when you got to get a certain type of cat into a fucking box you better have it visualized all the way through and you got to be in it when you start it

and you got to make it happen you have have to will it into reality, getting that fucking cat in a box. And I was wishy-washy. I was, I didn't know if I wanted to go. I didn't know if I could get him. And I fucked up once. And then I decided later that like, I'm going to try again. And then it got just horrible. Poor old guy. I think I blew out his fucking energy for the day, literally acted like I was going fucking kill him i've had this cat almost 16 years doesn't matter still thinks that any any second that i'll fucking kill him that he's gotta fight for his life against me because clearly i'm out to kill him now if you really think about it, they're not wrong

because eventually you're probably going to have to kill him, right? You're going to have to kill your cat because they live too long and they don't know when to die. And I've said that before, I know. It's a little callous and it's not the greatest way to put it, but you do it with love and you do it with a full heart. But this was not the day. Today i want to bring him into the vet which is already this is a whole other thing i got to deal with a new uh plague time experience where you drive i got to drive up to the vet call go around back

hand off the cat and then wait for him to come back out. That's how it's going to go. I got to make this happen. It's going to happen today. I don't know if I told you I watched all of Unorthodox, which I thought was beautiful. It gave me a deeper understanding of ultra-Orthodox Jews who I've mocked in my past, understanding of ultra-Orthodox Jews, who I've mocked in my past, and I've gotten flack for it from non-Orthodox Jews who said, hey, no anti-Semitism allowed at all, especially not from us. Why pile on when they're piling on us? Okay. But I learned a lot. I learned some things. It was a beautifully empathetic four-part series about a woman who escapes Williamsburg and the ultra-Orthodox community there. I recommend it.

Watch The Stranger the other night. That's Orson Welles plays a Nazi hiding in Connecticut. And as deep into what America is made of as possible. It's a pretty menacing, beautifully cut, beautifully paced movie. Hadn't seen that in a while. I guess we're doing a kind of Nazi and Jew theme over here. Listening to a lot of music, listening to the Stones' Aftermath all the way through the other day.

Forgot what a great record that was. Listened to Her Satanic Majesty's Request, the Psychedelic Stones record. Not a great record, was. I listened to her Satanic Majesties request, the Psychedelic Stones record. Not a great record, actually. A lot of very exploratory, we're not the Beatles, though we'll try on this record type of stuff. Not knocking the stones, but you know, you don't know every Stones song. There's a lot of Stones songs you don't know every stone song there's a lot of stone songs you don't know but you know every beetle song right and i'm sort of a stones guy but i'm willing to say that okay you guys um let's i'm going to talk to fran drescher now and you're going to listen if you'd like i enjoy talking to her i find her very charming and uh. And as I said before, she's on the new NBC show,

Indebted. This is me and Fran Dre. cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category. And what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

Bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th

at 5pm in Rock City at TorontoRock.com What did you do? You've got all your incense. You do incense? Youense, yeah. You do incense? You know, I have them. Yeah. I like a diffuser better.

Yeah, yeah. Because, you know... The thing that you plug into the plug? Yes, you plug it in, you put in essential oils. Yeah, and then it goes. Organic, of course. Yeah, of course. And then it goes, and I have more control over the smell. I can mix and blend.

Lately, I've been doing some peppermint because, you know, that's antibacterial. Really? Yes. I'm drinking peppermint tea right now. That's lovely. That's good for digestion. Is it? Yeah.

Have you been doing a lot of research on this, Fran? Yeah. How long? You know, I'm a health activist and a cancer survivor. So you got to. I'm the founder of the Cancer Transcendent Movement. Right. I remember.

Yeah. So, you know, I kind of walk the talk. Yeah. So what- I'm really good if ever you need any cancers. Well, I mean, what is that though? Like when you, which kind of cancer did you have? I had uterine cancer, which was a slow-growing female cancer,

but it took me two years and eight doctors to get a proper diagnosis. So it was growing during that time, knowing that you didn't get a diagnosis. I went misdiagnosed. And then I. What was the misdiagnosis, like cysts? Perimenopause. Oh. Because most women that get uterine cancer are either postmenopausal or obese, and I was neither.

But yet 25% of women who do get it, which is one in four, are young and thin. Huh. So why not just rule out with a simple in-office endometrial biopsy whether this could be that? As opposed to just dismissing you. Exactly. I say, this lady's getting older. Right, exactly. She's having old lady problems.

She's more at the right age for that. But doctors are bludgeoned to go the least expensive route of diagnostic testing. Yeah, and also they don't know everything. They can't put you together. They can't turn your doctor into a deity. Yeah, they can't. That's a mistake. I grew up with a doctor. My dad was an orthopedic, so it was a little more definitive.

But really, their ability to connect symptoms, it's a hit or miss thing. And you don't know if the doctor that you're seeing is a great diagnostician. No. Because you're usually just going for the regular checkups. Right. And they're just sort of like, well, take a medicine. See if it goes away. Try this.

Yeah. They all subscribe to the philosophy. If you hear hooves galloping, don't look for zebra. It's probably a horse. Yeah. Yeah. But if you happen to be a zebra like me, you're screwed. Right.

Lately, though, I've met a lot of very practical doctors who are just sort of like, I don't horse yeah yeah but if you happen to be a zebra like me uh-huh you're screwed right i lately though i've i've met a lot of very practical doctors or just sort of like i don't know what that is let's see if we can figure it out that's good that is good that is good so what was the treatment now that led you to i had to get a radical hysterectomy right ultimately yeah and you know that's a difficult surgery for any, but for one who had never had children like myself, it's a particularly bitter pill to swallow. How old were you? I was 42 when I was ultimately diagnosed. Were you planning on having children?

I had just met someone that kind of made me realize what other women were talking about when they say, I want to have this baby. Oh, yeah. But I'd never felt that before. I was driven to have a career. This was after your husband? This was after my first husband. Now my gay ex-husband, who I love dearly. Not gay during the marriage.

No. But he was beginning to- Show signs? Reconcile that he was maybe bisexual, but never acted on it. Loved our life and loved me. We were active sexually. So he was upset when I busted up the act. Yeah. And kind of stopped talking to me.

And then when I got the cancer, one of the silver linings was that in that moment he burst into tears when he was told. And all of his anger melted away. And all that was left was the love. And then I wanted to write a book about my experience. So what happened to me wouldn't happen to other people by means of misdiagnosis and mistreatment. But then I realized that what happened to me has happened to millions of Americans. And so I knew that the book was not the end, but just the beginning of what was going to become a life mission. And Peter and I started to build our relationship up again on a new shelf. And it's great.

Good? It is. We work together now where we did Happily Divorced Together. Oh, yeah. That show went on for a while, right? Yeah, it was three seasons. Three seasons? That's good.

And now we're doing The Nanny Musical for Broadway. The Nanny Musical? Yes. That's good. And now we're doing the Nanny Musical for Broadway. The Nanny Musical? Yes. That's crazy. It is. Well, I think, I mean, everyone's excited. Of course. It's going to be great.

Yeah. And who's going to play the nanny? That is yet to be seen. You haven't attached anybody? We've got Rachel Bloom to write the music from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. Sure. I've talked to her. She's been in here.

Yeah. I bet everybody's been in here. A lot of people have been here or at the other house or in the house. Oh, this is a new house. This is a new house and I was doing it in the house for a while while they were working on this thing. Back area. Well, I had to make this into a house. It was just a garage that had been made an illegal room by the people before me and I got tagged. This is a house now. There's a kitchen in there. Oh, that tagged. So I had to make, this is a house now.

There's a kitchen in there. Oh, that's great. I had to make it a house. Are your parents still living? Yes. So do they come in? I don't know. My mother's, they've both come, but I had, this wasn't ready yet.

And I don't know. It's weird. My dad couldn't make, he had a hard time with the stairs. That's where the other bedroom is. And, you know, I have no problem putting them up at a hotel down the street. Right, right. I don't need them in the house. Okay.

But then you do that. Are your folks alive? Yes, thank God. Both of them. Yes. And still madly in love with each other. That is something. I know.

Mine are not. Oh, they're not together even? No. Oh, I see. No, yeah. No, it would be more sad. When did they split, though? When I was like 35. Oh, wow. I was older. Okay. It wasn't a young, I see. No, it would be more sad. When did they split, though? When I was like 35.

I was older. Okay. It wasn't a young, you know, it was still a problem of figuring out who I should live with at 35. Truly? No. Come on. Well, somebody once said to me, you know, gullible is the only word that's not in the dictionary. And I said, really?

So getting back to this, so the treatment treatment though, in terms of changing your diet, because that's sort of where we were going and incense and essential oils and healing things that a lot of that stuff, because I have my own feelings about it. I go in and out of that stuff, but sometimes it is about believing, right? Well, everything is about believing, of course. You know, if you believe you're going to die, you probably will have less of a fighting chance than if you believe you're going to live. I try to only eat organic. Sure.

That makes sense. Oh, so that makes sense to you. Of course. Okay. And also, I detox my home. I don't spray for pesticides. No, all that makes sense. All of the cleaning products and gardening is oh yeah organic i'm with i'm on

board with that same page yeah because that stuff is real that's the cancer schmancer way right but i'm just talking about like the air freshener i wonder essential oils essential oils i don't know if i believe how much of bacteria it's killing but that's not that's just oh well i i mean you know i don't think that it's going to really do the job that, you know, if you really clean surfaces and things. No, I know. But I think that this is an airborne issue that we're currently dealing with with COVID-19. Yeah, why not? Have some mint in the thing.

Yeah, what's the downside? There's no downside. It smells nice. Fuck it. It does. Exactly. Where do you stand the downside? There's no downside. It smells nice. Fuck it. It does, exactly. Where do you stand on turmeric? I think it's wonderful. It's anti-inflammatory.

You know, I was married to an Indian. That was my second husband. Were you guys married? Yes. Why? I didn't know if it was clear whether you were married or not. That seemed to be unclear. Well, we'd never filed with the state, but we were wedded by a Jewish gay minister and a...

Oh, so you never filled out your paperwork, but you got married. Yes. You never registered. Right, with the state. Right. We ultimately decided that, you know, it was too much for... We had corporations. It was too complicated and, we had corporations. It was too complicated and not necessary.

What did that guy do? Well, he was a computer systems inventor, and he was working on a health program. So he was the guy you met that you wanted to have babies with? No. Oh, that was another guy. No, this was 20 years ago. He's now having a baby with someone else. He was 16 years younger than me.

Oh, okay. So he's now in his mid-40s. What'd that guy do? He became a writer, producer on television. Yeah. And you guys dated for a while? 16 years younger than you? Four years?

That was fun, right? And the cancer was part of that journey. Yeah. And I'm very, very, very grateful. And nobody could ever say a bad word about him because he was really a doll. You got the diagnosis when you were with him? Yes. Ah.

And you know, he was a guy that when he was in college he was dating a woman whose sister was murdered and she was really flipped out over it and pushed him away and left town and he kind of made a little promise to himself that if ever he's in love with a woman who's going through a crisis right he will not let her push him away but he will be there to help and support her and i was the recipient of that promise nice and that's something good timing with your tragedy with your tragic news it's true but you're good I am. I'm 20 years well this June. That's great. We're going to celebrate with my annual cabaret dinner cruise in New York Harbor for Cancer Schmanza.

And we serve organic food, of course, because we walk the talk. Are you vegetarian? No. Okay. No. I love vegetables and I love salad and I eat a lot of that. Yeah. But I'm lot of that. Yeah. But I'm not exclusively that.

Right. But what I do eat has to be very pristinely grown. Sure. Whether it be animal protein or grass-fed, antibiotic-free, growth hormone-free, pasture-raised, not just grass-fed. Right. Because you want to get the earth and the animal eats a lot of earth. Yeah, you want them out there. Yes.

Living a life. Living the life that God intended them to live. Or wild. Sure. Wild, like a wild pig. Or wild fish. Wild fish. Oh, yeah, you got to eat wild fish.

You should. I only eat wild fish. Good for you. Thank you very much. But you don't know what you're getting at restaurants with the fish. You should. I only eat wild fish. Good for you. Thank you very much. But you don't know what you're getting at restaurants with the fish. You got to ask. I always ask. Yeah.

So you won't eat fish that's not wild at a restaurant? No. It's so rare that they have the wild fish. It's got to be seasonal. You got to ask every time because that's the only way they'll get the message. So wait, what part of New York do you grow up in? Flushing, Queens, just like the nanny. Flushing, Queens. I lived in nanny. Flushing, Queens.

I lived in Astoria, Queens. Oh, okay. Wow. Flushing, Queens where the World's Fair. So that was a neighboring town, yes. Where the Globe is and whatever. Yes, the Unisphere. Yes, the dead fairgrounds.

Yeah. The ghost of fun. I got married at the Terrace on the Park, which is still there. Uh-huh. And. My parents went to that World's Fair. I did as well. You were a kid, though. Yeah, I was, I think, like maybe four or five or six.

Are there slides of you at the fair? I think there was home movies. My dad liked taking home movies. And I remember when we went into the General Motors Pavilion, and we all were on a convertible GM car.

Exciting. They let me sit behind the wheel. Oh, you remember that? But it was on a track. But it was so much fun. You remember that part? I do. It's weird what you remember from four. And we went to Howard Johnson's before. Of course. For ice cream?

Oh, for brunch. Yeah. Did you have ice cream? Probably. Probably. So, like, what, was your whole family in Flushing? No. I mean, I had very close, my dad's brother.

Yeah. And his whole family, my first cousins, they all lived in Howard Beach. My grandmother lived in Rego Park. Where'd she come from? Well, she was born here. Yeah. But her husband, Papa Joe, came from Poland. Sure.

Her mom came from Romania, Boba Iesta. Boba Iesta. And my dad's parents were both immigrants. Yeah. And I think. From Russia or where? I think they were, I'm not exactly. Have you done the genetic thing?

Russian, German. You broke it. I'm Ashkenazi, like 99.9%. Yeah, me too. Yeah, all Jew, just comes back Jew. I never get invited on those celebrity shows where they do the- I did one. You should do-

They did do it. Well, maybe you had a more interesting past than me. No. Really? Nothing came of it? I was just all Jew, but there was like- Nothing interesting? No, no.

Some stuff. It was that one Finding Your Roots. That one. Right, right. They've never invited me to do that. I think they're more into- I think it's tricky with Jews. Yeah.

You know, because like- They turn off the channel. No. They may lose their audience. No, no. It was actually three Jews on my episode. It was Terry Gross, Goldblum, Jeff Goldblum, and me. And the tricky thing about Jews is that the records, especially in Russia,

don't go that far back because a lot of them were destroyed. But it was interesting. Of course I learned stuff I didn't know, but I'm sure that there's stuff here. But I'm thinking I'm more into let's get the African-American who somehow was related to Thomas Jefferson or something. Yeah, they all were. Thomas Jefferson fucked all. Yeah, they all were. Thomas Jefferson fucked all of his slaves. Yes.

So Flushing, Jews. Yes, yes. And, you know, that song that Simon and Garfunkel wrote in My Little Town, that was My Little Town. Were they writing about Flushing? Yeah. I love that song. It's so haunting.

It's about our neighborhood. It's sad, man. It's a sad song. Yeah, yeah. Nothing but the dead and dying back in my little town. And Jerry Seinfeld came from the next town. We both went to Queens College. Did you know him?

I did not. But, you know, Ray Romano was in my graduating class in high school. Oh, yeah. With Peter. Oh, with your Peter. Yeah. Yeah, I knew Ray back when he was doing comedy. His brother's a cop.

Well, I didn't know him back then. You were older than's a cop. Well, I didn't know him back then. You were older than him or younger? Oh, you didn't know him. No, we were the same age. We're the same age. We're in the same graduating class. We're in the same graduation book. And I didn't even know this.

He knew it. And so when he came on to CBS to do Everybody Loves Rayman, I was already doing it on the nanny. There we were on the same network from the same high school graduating class. But how could people not know you? I have to assume that you had the personality you have since you were five. Probably. But I think he knew. But you didn't know him.

I didn't know him. He wasn't as popular. Right. You were popular. I was popular, but I always enjoyed, I had three sets of friends. Yeah. The cool kids, which by far were not the most interesting to me. The nerds, who I love my nerds.

Yeah. Because I'm an intellectual, too. And also the drama club kids so that those were the three circles yeah you could move freely throughout those yes i i was able to do but con there must be a story where you you like you know you abandon some nerd friends to hang out with the popular friends or or maybe you know. You know, I think that when I was in junior high or as they call it middle school now, there was a year that I was friends with two girls.

And then the following year, one girl just didn't seem to mature at the same rate as me and the other girl did. And we kind of stopped being friends with her. Yeah. Which, I don't know, I mean, you just keep developing, I guess. Of course, yeah.

I mean, that's natural. But you never got into one of those situations where you were the popular one and then you had the one that wasn't popular, the friend, and you made some sort of choice. And she kind of was saddened, and you felt guilty about it for the rest of your life. Well, I feel guilty that, you know, I felt like I outgrew Ellen. Yes.

And I did feel bad about it. What's she doing? I was never not nice. I wasn't like mean girls. Right, right, okay. It's just, you know. You were never a meanie. No.

In fact, I kind of had to learn how to say no and put myself into the equation. Oh, yeah? Toughen up? Do what's good for me. Boundaries? Yeah. Some codependent therapy? Codependent is something that I can slip into, but also being a caregiver to a fault of my own.

Right. Oh, right. So you sacrifice your own sense of self for the other. Right. Is that what happened with the Indian guy? No, no. The Indian guy, I learned a lot from him. I learned a lot about myself because of him. Really? Like what? How's that happen? Was he a mystic?

I didn't realize that I could still get my buttons pushed and that I would still kind of blame myself for things. So you guys got in fights. Yes. And not the first year. That was bliss. Then the second year was agony and ecstasy. And the third year was just agony. And then I called it quits.

And I realized that this creature, you know, I traveled the journey. It was a real arc of my character that in the beginning, I would think, oh, this guy, he gets upset and he just walks out of the door. And then I wouldn't hear from him for like two weeks. And I'd be like in knots worrying about him and beating myself up for saying this and doing that. and beating myself up for saying this and doing that. Exactly. And from that beginning point, which was very unhealthy for me, I began to observe him like a creature,

and I realized that he has, you know, he's got his own little problems. Sure. And that doesn't really make him a good husband or communicator. And I gave him several tries. Each time he wanted to come back, and I let him. But then I said, you know, this is beginning to impact my health, and I'm a cancer survivor, so it's too stressful. If we get into any kind of an argument, walking out is not an option. Working through is the only option.

Jews don't walk out. But then, you know, he wasn't Jewish. I know. Stay in it. We're going to move through this. Someone's going to cry, and then we apologize and eat something. He was, you know, kind of Hindu. We had a Hindu priest, too.

Yeah. He was kind of Hindu. We had a Hindu priest, too. But then I realized, okay, this isn't enough for me. That's funny that you thought that your buttons couldn't be pushed after a certain point. Well, because I thought I had worked through some of the issues that I realized. And that was the opportunity. Sure. And I ended up making an appointment for us together to go see this shaman psychologist. Oh, come on. And he didn't want to go.

So I went myself. To a shaman psychologist. Yes. How is that different than a regular psychologist? I was a very serious Jungian for over a decade. Oh, wait a minute. Now, so Jungian, what is that different than a regular site? I mean, I had done very serious Jungian for over a decade. Oh, wait a minute. Now, so Jungian, what is that process? Is that dream-based?

Well, they do like to talk about the dreams. Yeah, I just like how- But also, you know, she was a very serious older woman psychoanalyst. Right, okay. So you lie down on the couch right right right but it's young in as opposed as opposed to freudian yes so you're dealing a lot with uh dreams right visuals you know not trying to explain stuff based on like this is your father this is your mother you want to do this you want to do that uh well we went through every member of my immediate family. So you did that for 10 years?

One by one, yes. And did that help? Yes. Because by the time I got to the shaman, I was more spiritual, more of a Buddhist. I could talk shorthand to him because I had cut through a lot of the bullshit. You knew exactly what you were there for. Yes. bullshit but i knew exactly what you were there for yes i just you know i needed to learn the tools yeah to get you to fill yourself with you yeah rather than from someone else

which is always ultimately going to disappoint you because they have their own baggage and their own issues. You can't control them. Exactly. You can only control you. So you have to fill your voids with you. Right. And that's what I learned. From the shaman. Yes. Are you an ayahuasca person? No. I can't see that. I can't see you doing that. No. I mean, I have a lot of friends that are, and I've, you know, and I'm- You're going to sit in a circle out in the woods? I probably speak for cannabis, of course. But- Because it's just so sweaty and messy, and you run around, and you throw up.

I'm scared. I'm a good girl, I am. I don't want to be in someone's living room all night. And, you know, I've tried some little things here and there over the course of my life. But, you know, you get a little older. Right. What little things have you tried? I tried X a few times.

That's loose. That's not terrible. You're not going to lose yourself on X no but you know it's diminishing returns each time you do sure right not healthy either

no so that was the last time was the last time some people like the mushrooms a couple times a year mushrooms I've done

it's alright I don't do it anymore though yeah what for what do you need it no right so you're in Flushing you're in flushing you went to where'd you go to college uh i went to queen's college so you were really i walked to college

i was so codependent on my parents i i mean i got into nyu too yeah but i didn't want to schlep what to this an hour on the train i'm telling you 45 minutes i never backpacked through europe i never went away to sleepaway camp what'd your dad do what'd you what was the business dad eventually found his way as a systems analyst and uh ended up working the longest period of time as a civilian employee for the U.S. Navy. Wow. And he would analyze all the, like, PXs where they sold stuff for the, you know, naval military. Wow, that's very specific. And your mother worked too? Yeah, she worked around the corner when I was young in a discount drug store.

And then once I moved out, she got a job. Or maybe when I don't remember whether she worked there when I was still home. But then she worked in a bridal salon. Then she became a floater in a department store. That was after I moved out. And they stayed in the same house forever? No. Were they ever in the apartment? A small two-bedroom apartment or house apartment

then we went into a larger three-bedroom apartment a new york apartment then um then me and my sister moved down and they bought a little um townhouse yeah New Jersey. Yeah, what part of Jersey? In, uh, where Stearns is. Now I can't remember the name. Woodbridge. Oh yeah,

it's nice. I, I was only there a couple of times. They were coming out to California to be with me more. Yeah,

so they, and we would, you know, go on vacations together. They live here now? They, no, I wish. Oh. They live here now? No, I wish. They live down in South Florida, but I'm trying to get them to move here.

Oh, yeah? Yeah. They're locked in down there? They live in a place with other old people? You know, they're not a senior living, but a retirement community. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like 55 and up. Yeah.

But I think that they're ready for senior living uh-huh but they're not they're fighting you on it well it's a big move they love their apartment they live in a condo yeah and they still love each other thank god yeah but i found a place not far from me right on the beach yeah and i you know, you don't have to make any decisions. Don't sell anything. Don't do anything. Just come out. We'll rent it for a month.

They said we can do that. And I'll lease beautiful furniture for the month, and we'll fill it up, and you'll just have the experience of living there for a month and see if it's something that you can be comfortable doing. But now with corona, I don't want to put them on a plane. So it's going to have to wait. All right. Well, it sounds like they're occupied and happy.

Yes. It's just, you know, I'm helping them more and more with their doctors and I'm always sending them vitamins and I'm just not there. Is your sister around? My sister lives in New York, and she has her doctorate in nursing. And her husband is a doctor, dermatologist. So they're dealing with her too, right? They're dealing with the folks too, or are you the only one?

She deals with them and talks to them all the time too but i'm more into alternative stuff i want them to build up their immune system sure the cancer shrance away yeah and follow the fran plan so i'm always sending them stuff and telling them how to do it do they do yeah they're coming around did you grow up how jewish did you grow up um very very relaxed not very reformed really like uber reformed yeah my dad has always felt that um you know organized religion is the cause of all wars yeah Yeah. And he wasn't wrong. Yeah. And so he really liked identifying us

with the history of the Jewish people. And, but not necessarily all the rules and regulations. Right, sure. So, and I'm kind of the same way. Did you get bat mitzvahed? No. None of that? None of that. But my sister. Did you get bat mitzvahed? No. None of that? None of that.

But my sister had both her daughters bat mitzvahed. Sure. So she went a little bit the other way after she moved out. Not too much though, right? She liked... Conservative. Being part of a temple and... Community.

I think so. So when did you start acting? Acting, you know, like by the time I was in 10th grade, my first year of high school, I was in the school play. And in 11th grade, I started to become part of a special program, the theater career program. And so it was modeled off of performing arts and we went for half a day just taking different theater classes and that was where i met peter no actually i met him in 10th grade he was the pianist for the show i was the husband the first husband the gay husband yes you know him that long? Yes, 15.

That's crazy. I know him much longer than I don't know him. Yeah. Okay, so but- We're soulmates. Yeah, it seems like it. I mean, that's a long time. But when do you, so that's the only real training you did to act? No, I went to HB Studio in New York.

Who was that? And I studied there. Bill Esper? No. Herbert Berkoff. Herbert Berkoff. Herbert Berkoff. Yes. And I studied

with a couple of teachers there. Not him. Yeah? He was the big guy? I don't even know if he was alive. I'm not sure. You don't know?

Even when you were there? Yeah, I was a kid in high school and, you know, I'd get on the train with a girlfriend to go to H. It was Saturday.

What was it called? HB Studio. It's still there. Yeah. Still there in yeah still there and he was the guy he's the guy what's his name again a herbert burke but you never saw him i don't recall seeing him but i studied with two other teachers that were quite uh you know like had quite a good reputation when you were in high school yes but then after and i i by the time I was in my senior year, I was already Miss New York Teenager First Runner-Up. Seriously? And I only entered it because I thought it would help me to get an agent if I won. For acting? Yes. So, I was very ambitious at a very young age, and I did get an agent

yeah how long did you stay with that agent? probably a couple of years I freelanced in the beginning that was kind of the way you could do that back then what kind of training were these

who were these people that your teachers were there other people we know in the class or did you come up with anybody? I don't recall other people in the class. How long did you work there?

A couple of years or what? No, I think I went for like two semesters. Yeah. To the professional acting class, right? Yeah, like two semesters. And then I started working professionally. So you got the- I got an agent.

I got pictures. Yeah. And I started going out and So you got the... I got an agent. I got pictures. Yeah. And I started going out and I booked some commercials right away. I also did some extra work which helped get me into the union. And then you just... And then I was off to the races.

My first job was Saturday Night Fever. Yeah, what did you have, like one or two lines in that? I was Connie. Yeah. And I was the one that said he was gonna bet

as you were on the dance floor. We had a little scene. Is that exciting? My dad worked in Brooklyn when we were shooting and he came to visit me on his lunch break and they said this is a closed set and he said, but I'm the store's father.

The store's father. And they said, oh, right this way, Mr. Travolta. And he just didn't bat an eye. He just kept walking. Yeah. But what was American Hot Wax? How big of a part was that? Because I kind of remember that movie.

It's about Alan Freed, right? Yes. That was a big part. I mean, I was... A teenager? I was about to turn 20 when I started that movie. I was 19. Yeah.

But almost 20. And me and Jay Leno tested together. And we became Mookie and Cheryl. That was our, I think that was his character's name. And we were Alan Freed's secretary and limo driver. And he and I were always, you know, like fighting on camera. Yeah. Yeah, we had an antagonistic relationship that ended up with us falling in love, of course.

Really? And that was, he must have been one of the only movies he did. He didn't do that many movies. No, we were so young. I have early memories of that movie. I don't think I've seen it since it came out, and that's 1978. And we had a kissing scene. You and Jay?

Yep. And was that your first kissing scene? Yes, it was. How'd that go? Was it funny? Yeah, it was. He's a good kisser. Oh, yeah?

Believe it or not. At least he was then. Wow. Probably. I think it's like riding a bike. Is it? Once you're good, you're always good? I would imagine. And then it's just funny a bike. Once you're good, you're always good. I would imagine.

And then it's just funny, these movies, the early movies, because I remember them. Because when I was growing up, you were just part of my brain. But I don't know that I remembered you specifically in the Hollywood Nights. That was like Robert Wool, right? Yes. And Tony Danza. Yeah. And Michelle Pfeiffer.

Really? Yes. And we were all playing teenagers then right and they were kind of kooky not they were like well it was one of those movies they weren't a gang though all night oh just like you know but it was a goofy thing right it wasn't like they weren't scary or anything it was they weren't a gang i remember someone pissing in the punch yeah no it was a it was a kind of teen comedy right that was the genre of you know american graffiti diner right sure animal house sure right yeah yeah yeah yeah they were making some money over those movies yeah yeah i was lucky that you know i was there at the right time. Yeah. But what were you doing? Were you living in New York? Once I got American Hot Wax and they flew me out here, I came out to do the movie.

I was booked to work 10 weeks. Yeah. But I never went back. That was it? Yeah, because I started working and I connected with an agent and manager and Peter came out too and we started living together. And you were dating in high school?

Were you friends in high school? It was going on in high school. Well, we started out as friends. Yeah. We ended up as boyfriend and girlfriend. Was he your first? Really, yes. Yes, yes.

Yes. I think there was some heavy making out with the boyfriend before that. Yeah. But no, Peter was really. Yeah. And I his. Yeah. And I think that we were very blessed because we always had each other.

We were never promiscuous and we never caught anything. Not quite. Even though that was the period in the 70s and 80s where we could have gotten into trouble. Yeah. So that was it. You locked in with him. Until we left each other. Right.

Yeah. Then I was a little bit the animal let out of the zoo. Yeah, yeah. How old was that? That was like 38. Oh, yeah. Something like that. That's a good time to be let out of the zoo.

Yes, yeah. I mean, I was just ready to sell my oats, figure out who Fran was, outside of the marriage and outside of being my parents' daughter. And I remember, I think the first time I really remember you registering with me

and being like, I love her, was Spinal Tap. Yeah yeah that was cool right you know i was doing dr detroit then and with dan ackroyd and um that was kind of a big budget movie for universal yeah and i and my agent said there's a low budget film no script but a lot of really good comic actors. And I think as you go up on it, it's Rob Reiner's first film directorial debut. Uh-huh. And so I met with him after shooting a night shoot. Yeah.

On Dr. Detroit. So I was really kind of tired. And I sat in Rob's office, and I think I was a little low-keyed or something. He said, you know, you're not what I was thinking of, but I find this very interesting. And he ended up giving me the part of Bobby Fleckman, and people always thought I was a real person in that movie. Or I had known a person that I fashioned the character off of.

Because people said there was a woman in the industry that seemed like me. Of course. I actually didn't copy anybody. I just did my own thing. Yeah. Well, it's sort of like there's a lot of you in her. Of course. Always.

Yeah. But not that there's not a lot of you in her of course always yeah um but not that there's not a lot of me in her but i wasn't doing an imitation of a real person right but you know i love live music and i go to a lot of concerts and things yeah whenever i can yeah and the greatest silver lining of that movie is how many famous recording artists are into me oh yeah in that movie oh yeah they all carry it on their tours oh really it's almost like a superstition not to to have a copy of spinal tap yeah so you're sort of like a cult hero i am i mean i've had you know like chris Chris Martin come over to my table and profess his love for me. No kidding. I've been in an elevator with Bruce Springsteen and saying, you know, I don't want to bother you.

And it's like, Bruce, you could bother me any time of the day or night. They all love Bobby, huh? I think so. It's really lucky for me. I mean, that movie was music centric, as was Saturday Night Fever, as was American Hot Wax. And even Dr. Detroit, you know, had James Brown in it. Right. Yeah. Dan liked to use all those people.

Yes. Yes. He honored the R&B and blues people. Yeah, totally. Yeah. So you're kind of a music-based actress for a while. Yes, and I like that because I love music. Love it.

But I think somehow or another you became defined as, you are, as a type, you're singular and you're kind of a comedic persona in and of yourself absolutely and you know that started very distinctive yeah persona but it's you but you never did stand up it's me with a lot of technique and talent yeah i mean sure of course it's not an accident everything is a choice right including making mr sheffield know, British. You know I created that show, right? Yeah. So all of her is in me, but not all of me is in her.

Of course. Yeah. But you never did stand-up? I do it now. Oh, really? Yeah. Now I do stand-up. I didn't then.

Because I was working as an actress, and I didn't want to play that circuit and have to be up late, have to compete for mic time. And it wasn't my thing. Now that I'm famous, I can fill a room. I don't have to go through those things. So where do you do stand-up? Yeah, yeah. You do a whole set? You got an hour that you do?

I have about 50 minutes, but I do a schmoozing with Fran show. 50 minutes but I do a schmoozing with Fran show so after that I do a little one-on-one interview with myself and and Peter comes out who writes the bits you yeah me and and some of my writer besties that have written for me oh on and off throughout the course of time yeah yeah we'll come up with stuff it's all based off. Yeah. Yeah, we'll come up with stuff. It's all based off of my life, though. Nothing's made up. Who goes? Well, it depends. You know, sometimes it's whoever is in the area.

Sometimes it's a huge gay group. You know, I'm a gay icon. And sometimes it's, you know, I mean, just like... When did you know you were a gay icon I was told during the nanny there was a lot of you know like drag imitators of me

and they used to have a parade called wig stock and then they do nanny viewing parties at the gay bars. And people on the night that we aired, they would all go. It was a very big show for a lot of people for a long time.

Yeah, it continues to be. It's like a defining show. Yeah? It's huge with the millennials today. Really? They go back where they see it? It's in syndication? It's in syndication.

Right now it's on Cozy as well as Hulu. Do you still own it or have a piece of it? Sure. Yeah. I'll give that up, baby. Yeah, it's us

and our parent company, Sony. Uh-huh. And, you know, that's Peter's and my baby. Yeah. We gave birth to it. We nurtured it. We took care of it. But you know, that's Peter's and my baby. Yeah. We gave birth to it. We nurtured it. We took care of it.

But you did, like, some TV before, right? I mean, but not like that. Well. That was it, just here and there. I did a short-lived series called Princesses. Yeah. Also for CBS. I did a lot of pilots that didn't go anywhere.

And the last pilot that I did, I thought to myself, I'm either going to get myself on the inside in a big way or get out of this business. Because I can't keep working for people that I feel are not as talented as I am. When did you have that realization? Before the nanny, because that's what I manifested.

I gave myself five years to make that happen. Yeah. And one day, after I did this short-lived series for CBS. Princesses. Yes. And that was with Twiggy, the one and only, as well as Julie Haggerty. And after that, I did another pilot for them, which was like, I think, a spoof on soap operas, a nighttime single cam. That didn't get picked up either.

Then I thought, well, now I'm going to have to wait a few months before pilot season comes around again to see what's going to happen. And Peter and I were breaking stories, coming up with ideas to try and pitch, but not the nanny. Had you guys, right, okay. How long had you been working on writing together? Like how long were you a team in trying to develop stuff? Yeah, it was in that window once I kind of said, this is not going to work for me. I'll find another way to make a living.

Oh, because, oh, just by going out and auditioning for people. And then we started, he and I started brainstorming and pitching and coming up with series ideas and things like that. But when I ran into the head of CBS, it was on a plane to Europe. I cashed in some frequent flyer miles, and I ended up going to visit- Who was the president then? Jeff Sikansky. Uh-huh.

And I was going to visit Twiggy. Oh, yeah. And she was busy, so I was hanging out with our little 12-year-old daughter schlepping her all over London. Uh-huh. Because I wasn't comfortable being by myself in a big city. being by myself in a big city. I still struggle with being by myself out in the world, but I push myself to do it.

Was that from like a PTSD thing? It's probably a perfect storm of a lot of things. Maybe I have a mild agororaphobia I don't know but um or and I was a victim of a violent crime horrible and I am famous so I don't know I think it's that's why I'm now I'm gonna get a big dog yeah yeah so I can feel comfortable because I like distance walking a service dog yes that you can bring on the plane yes how did you like, what was the process of, you know, because that violent crime was awful that you've talked about before. Yes, and I've written about it.

I did a chapter in my first book called Bad Things Happen to Good People, and I really can't tell you how many people asked me to sign that chapter of course Because a lot of people it happens to a lot of people they don't talk about they don't know how to talk about it They don't want people to look at them weird or to think of them differently So when somebody speaks their heart and their mind about the experience, it's comforting. Oh my god. They feel less alone They feel seen they feel like I'm not the only one. It happened to a famous person. And if she could get on with her life.

Well, what did you do? Well, what happened exactly? Oh, well, we were home. It was me, Peter, and Judy. Who's Judy? Our best friend of many, many years. Yeah. And we were just having dinner.

Yeah. The dog was barking. I didn't know why i went on the intercom nobody answered of course yeah but uh they were actually working at breaking down the front door it was two brothers and the rapist was on parole yeah So, you know, it was like an hour, an hour and a half of pure horror. And the good news is that they apprehended him and now he's in jail for like two consecutive lifetimes. Wow.

Well, that's good. Yes, closure. What about the other guy? He went to jail too, but he didn't get the rape charges. Right. He just filled up our car and their car with everything. That's terrible.

Yeah, it was awful. So like, you know, and that happened before the nanny. I mean, this happened before. When the nanny started, there was one of those tabloid TV shows that put it out, a segment, like it had just happened. Yeah. And people were calling my parents, what is this?

What happened? You hadn't talked about it publicly at that point? Well, I wasn't really famous until The Nanny. Oh, I see. It never really came up. Right. And it was in maybe my first or second year of The Nanny, I did write the book.

Yeah. But whenever this came out, and maybe when the book came out, that was when they decided to dig in and see if they could go to the prison. It was terrible. And nothing really came of it. But that was when I did experience post-traumatic stress. So you're saying that the PTSD didn't really kick in until after it became public? Yes.

Because I didn't really deal with my pain. Yeah, what did you do? I just carried on. You did? Yeah. I mean, we had to go to court. We were witnesses. I was very instrumental because in helping the police artist come up with a sketch of the guy.

And it looked like he had posed for it. Oh, yeah? You really remember it, huh? Yes, I made a point of remembering. Yeah. And I kind of have a photographic memory, though it's beginning to fade a little bit now with age. Yeah. And so, and I kind of have a photographic memory, though it's beginning to fade a little bit now with age. Yeah, sometimes that's okay.

So what happened once it started, it really hit you? You were lucky to be in therapy. I kind of like move forward a little bit. Do whatever you want. I have to say, I don't know if anyone's ever said this, but this chair could be more comfortable. All right, I'll get some. The president sat on this chair. could be more comfortable. All right. I'll get some. The president sat on that chair.

Maybe a back thing. All right. I have a nice picture with Obama. Yeah. Yeah. He was helpful in me passing a bill by unanimous consent, which means all 100 senators said yes, Fran. Which bill? The Gynecologic Cancer Education and Awareness Act,

the first of its kind in U.S. history. And I was written up twice in the congressional record. Well, you worked for the president. Weren't you a diplomat? Yes, I have a vetted position of public diplomacy envoy for health issues and was sent to... For women's health issues, right, specifically? You know, people always assume that but i spoke to men and women in our military as well as

our allied nations and it was not usual it was sometimes it was all women but and people assume that because it was a gynecologic bill that got passed that I didn't actually initiate, but I brought it home. It's amazing, really, how sometimes the best gifts come in the ugliest packages. You just don't know what's going to come from the depths of despair. But you've got to just play the hand that's been dealt you. That's, I think, why I was able to speak, be a public speaker. Because you're surviving. Yeah, the more I talked, the more I started to formulate a vision

of what I think needed to be done. And what did you do internationally? Well, I spoke wherever I went. That's basically it. Talking to everybody. About your experience. It was organized. Not just my experience, but take control of your body.

You know, I was misdiagnosed for two years. Sure. You have to transform from patient into medical consumer. You have to know what the early warning whispers of the cancers that may affect you are and the tests that are available. Yeah. Because all too often, they're not even on the menu. So, you know, that's my goal, is to pivot the way people think about their health,

to become more in charge, better partners with their physicians, and to ultimately and most significantly change their lifestyle to a more toxic-free, carcinogen-free, eco-friendly. Even just eat better. You must eat better. Start somewhere.

Give up on all industrial farm foods. They're not serving you or the planet well. Well, definitely not highly refined, processed, sugary foods. Definitely not sugar, corn syrup, sweetener. I had some cookies. None of that. Last night I had two cookies. Two cookies isn't going to kill you.

Don't make the perfect the enemy of the good. I know. True. So now, all right. So the show you're on now, I've talked to Adam Pauly. That's nice. He's my son on the show. Yeah, I talked to Dan.

Oh, Dan Levy. Levy, who I knew from when he was younger, a comedian. Stand-up, uh-huh. Yeah. And it seems like it's a good role for you. Yes, I think, you know, for those that love the nanny, it's kind of that character 25 years later. And did you meet his real mom?

I did. I've met both his parents. They're very sweet people. We're not exactly doing them, even though they inspired the role. I get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're doing what you do. Exactly.

Otherwise, why hire me? Right. But over the course of this, you've done a lot of movies, episodic television, your own show and but you also did a talk show for a while i did well that was almost like an experiment i was given 16 hours of air time yeah but that's really not enough to get a daytime did you like it though i did like it could you see yourself doing that or what yes i liked it i like learning i like talking to people i'm interested in people um you know i i i liked it yes i did like it but you know uh it it you have to have it you have to have a network behind you sure that's going to give you a good year like they gave ellen sure get planted so it seems

like you got a little hard to change daytime viewing habits right you got a little uh you're a little upset about that it's no i'm not upset you would have liked a bigger shot with that particular i would have liked to have been on nbc and the producers i was working for jumped to Fox because they wanted it too. And that's where their other show was, Wendy Williams. So you feel like you got kind of lost in the shuffle? We're not giving a good shot. Well, I, you know, I think the judgment was off and we paid the price for it. Right.

But then, you know, Happily Divorced started right after that. And that was great. And that was great. Yeah, yeah. You and Peter. Three seasons. Yes, loosely based on our relationship.

Hmm. And it was wonderful. That's enough, isn't it? It's not enough for syndication necessarily, but three seasons is enough. I'm in the show right now. Four seasons. We're in the fourth season.

It's like enough. Yeah. I mean, you got to do. I mean, you did right now, we're in the fourth season, it's like enough. I mean, you gotta do. I mean, you did a lot, like The Nanny did like 150 episodes. But that was a different time too, it was like syndication meant something. Yes. Right?

I mean, it still means something if you're on network television. No, no, I know, I know, but like the life of a show, like if you've got 100 episodes to sell. Right? Or like 145 like we did. I mean, you know, that has a long life ahead of it.

Totally. And if it's a beloved show. Yeah. Yes. People loved it. And to this day, you're making money. Yes. Off of that thing.

Everybody loves the nanny. Everybody loves you Fran well but so are you in love do you have a man now no I'm not propositioning I'm just asking I um I I only have a friend with benefits right now and a gay ex-husband. Yeah. So those are, you know. Friend with benefits. See, that's the benefit of, like, I'm 56.

I have no children. Like, there's a point you get to, I think, in your life. And you're not married? No. Oh. I've been married twice. I have no kids. Because I was a bit of an asshole.

It takes a certain type of an asshole to have two wives and no children. I'm that guy. But I'm happy I don't have kids. But the thing I was going to say is that you do, and it sounds like this is sort of where your head's at too, you get to a certain point in your life around self-ownership where you're like, I don't owe anybody my life. And if I'm doing something that's not making me happy why am i doing that oh no you you right yes and i i you know i've i've thought to myself i'm i feel like i'm working too hard i'm away from home too much yeah just in dealing with this show and I'm you know I'm kind of wondering the same question but I'm in it I committed to it oh you mean just the time it's taking to to promote the show yeah because you know I mean I'm a little older than you but we're not that much no not that much so I think you know it's Not that much.

No, not that much. So I think, you know, it's time. Precious time. Yes. And it's diminishing returns. And you don't want to be filled with dread. Well, dread for what? That I have to go to work? Well, no, I mean like, you know,

maybe I'm just projecting, but like when I have things I got to do that I may not want to do. Going to work's one thing. But like today, like, you know, like, who's this guy? No, no, actually. We're going to talk to who? I was the one that, because this, we circled back to you.

Oh. Because I couldn't get out here when it was originally presented to me. And then I knew that I was doing a bunch of shows at universal oh yeah and i said and i was one that said what about that garage podcast maybe we should since we're out that way we're nearby i'm gonna not do it yeah i just needed to not go from malibu to glendale without having at least a few other things along the way to make it all make sense. Sure. Well, I'm so glad you did.

But how long you lived in Malibu? 23 years. So you made it through the fire, huh? I did. Yeah, I'm in South Malibu. And I was very lucky. We all had to evacuate. You had a house on some land out there,

do you? No, I'm on the ocean. That's my land. Oh, yeah? Yeah, it's a huge great view. That's beautiful. Oh, it's unbelievable. It's wilderness. I see huge wild mammals

all the time. Seals, dolphins, whales, flocks of I mean, I see huge wild mammals all the time. Like what? Seals, dolphins, whales. You see whales? Flocks of pelicans. Really? I mean, it's just remarkable. You see whales?

I do. It's a rare sighting for me, but I do see them. Okay. All right. Well, say hello to them for me. Yes, I will. It's always a religious experience. I can't imagine it. I've never seen a whale. And I'm see them. Okay. All right. Well, say hello to them for me. Yes, I will. It's always a religious experience. I can't imagine it.

I've never seen a whale. I like looking at fish. And I'm with you. You know, I mean, at this point, I love my space. I love my house. I love my time with me. Yeah. And so I like, you know, companionship and having my friends and my logical friends versus biological family. Right.

My logical family. Right. Yeah. The ones you choose. Yes. Yes. Yeah. But, you know, it's not a closed issue.

It's not a closed issue, but I am relishing the fact that I'm finally at a place in my life where I'm happy to be alone. Yeah. I find that I consider that major growth on my part. Look, man, if you're like a person that has had issues with boundaries or codependency or over-caregiving, it just becomes like a relief at some point once you have a certain amount of self-acceptance to be like, I don't fucking need to deal with that shit. Right? And I knew when I was getting better because people would, you know, I surrounded myself with, you know, basket cases.

I needed to be needed. Right. You're addicted to people. And now I don't have that need anymore. And when people would start telling me the problem, once I was able to realize that it was my way of avoiding my own problems by giving myself a full sense of being together. Yeah.

Like having my shit together. Right. Being there of being together. Yeah. Like having my shit together. Right. Being there for other people. Yeah. And once I was able to finally admit that I'm as fucked up as you are, I tell people, you know, all I can tell you is find yourself a really good shrink

and lay on that couch and, you know. Sure. Figure it out. Who are you? Yeah. Go for the jugular. Yeah. Why are you fucked up? What's happening?. Who are you? Yeah, go for the jugular. Yeah, why are you fucked up? What's happening?

Why aren't you? What are you buying into? What's the bill of goods? Right. But you used to surround yourself with people because of this? Like you had people in your life that were in trouble or had problems or were high maintenance? I think so. Relationships? I remember making concerted efforts to meet and make friends with people that didn't need me that I could learn from.

Ah, yeah. Did it feel weird at first? Like, how can you not need me? No, because at that point I was enjoying learning from someone else. Like, I love when I'm in the company of an alpha female. Yeah. learning from someone else. Like I love when I'm in the company of an alpha female.

Yeah. Because it's just for me, it's like I take the ride. Yeah. They're always going to ask the right questions, make the good reservation, figure out the best restaurant. It's all good. I'm totally trusting of my alpha female girlfriends. There you go.

A shout out to alpha chicks. Yay. Well, I'm glad you're doing well. And it was nice talking to you. I'm glad we talked. Ah, it's lovely talking to you. You're delightful. You are too.

And good luck with the show. I hope they make more. Thank you. Fran Drescher. That voice, right? That voice, right? That laugh, right? Indebted is on NBC Thursdays, 9.30, 8.30 Central. Lovely conversation.

I'm glad she stopped by. I'm now going to play a sad tribute in a very brief way To the great John Prine. And then I'm going to go. Try to get my cat in a box. Happy Pesach. Thank you. Rest in peace, John Prine. Boomer lives. But Moosehead? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly.

Product availability varies by region. See app for details. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Center in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m.

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