WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1118 - Laura Linney

Episode Date: April 27, 2020

Laura Linney thinks about mortality a lot and not just because of the current global predicament. Her thoughts are driven mostly by late-in-life parenthood and how her six-year-old is a constant reminder of the time she has left. Then there’s also the fact that her mother was a cancer nurse in New York City while her father lived apart from them, burning his bridges and living with regret. Laura and Marc talk about keeping things in perspective, dealing with forgiveness as you get older, and sitting in discomfort. They also discuss her films, her stage performances, and her Netflix series Ozark. This episode is sponsored by Scotts Turf Builder Triple Action. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening it's mark maron this is my podcast

someone gave me a heads up that there was a little um audio tribute or shout out to the show by a millennium crawl on their uh what is it uh oh hello is that it the The two old guys. Yeah, the Oh Hello podcast. The boy for sale episode. But apparently they copped our music, and I'm not coming after them for it. I thought it was fair use. Nice tribute. I took it in a positive way, which is I'm sure how they meant it. How's it going with you guys?

How's the baking and whatnot? I'm still, I'm wary to bake. It's gotten hot here in LA, so my air conditioner just doesn't hold up when it gets real hot. So I've been cooking things out here in the studio kitchen. Someone asked me why do I have a kitchen in my studio? I don't know if I haven't explained this or if it's necessary to explain it again. I had to make the garage here at this house into basically another house in order for it to be up to code. So that took a while and I was broadcasting out of one of the bedrooms upstairs in the house and now i'm out here but there's a

kitchen here someone could live here god forbid my mother my brother my father needs to to live here and i say god forbid in a nice way but god damn it no please no not that in a nice way anything but that please i'm saying that with love uh everything moves forward out here you know i don't even want to think about it got enough on my plate right now do i though do i by the way laura linney is on the show today the amazing actress laura Linney, is here. She's going to be on. Well, she's not here, but she's on the show.

Ozark Season 3 premiered last month. You can watch all three seasons of that. But watch her movies, man. I just watched You Can Count on Me. I just re-watched that Lonergan movie. What a fucking great movie. God damn it. Yeah, but she's been in a lot of movies the savages we were gonna i was gonna re-watch that but we ended up watching ace in the hole and eliza hitman movies uh because i want to talk to her but i'm starting to not only get used to doing conversations like this with a video hookup,

but there's something unique about them. I thought I could only see the possibilities of negative things in terms of having the mediated conversation, mediated being they're not sitting in front of me, but there is something about doing it this way too that is okay, if not unique, in that I seem to be getting the same depth or quality of conversations, but there's something a little different about them

that's not a bad thing. It's a different thing. It's a good thing. So I don't know what you guys have been been up to are you just kind of repeating things i have been digging into the past i think is a is a favorite pastime that bit that they did on snl that ad bryant did at the end of uh this last snl from home which i find very touching you know i don't really watch snl with any regularity but there is something sort of leveling about having to do it the way they're doing it there's sort of a uh vulnerability to it because there's no audience there's no crew they're dealing with

they're having to shoot these things with whoever they have to shoot them with so it's all kind of homemade the weird thing about entertainment at this point in time is that uh 90 of it looks like an audition tape and there's a vulnerability to that to to not having that interaction with the audience to only having the interaction with the camera to not having a crew to not having makeup and you're sort of seeing these the almost the raw talent of the people uh and it's a it's kind of great i don't know if i could i'd prefer it forever but as i've said before i think john oliver's show is better without the audience with him just sort of focused and plowing ahead but the ad bryant bit with her reading her old journals and then kind of losing her mind i just thought was hilarious i've been organizing a lot of stuff going through a lot of stuff

throwing away a lot of stuff moving stuff around and it triggers a lot of uh feelings you know looking at old pictures looking at old artifacts of your life, the life artifacts, old journals, old writing. I'm going through the boxes, man, to see what got me here. And a lot of it not worth saving. That was that's the big takeaway. Why am I keeping this? Who's this for? Be a lot easier when I fucking die to not have all this shit for someone else to throw away.

But I did have this weird thing about old pets. You know, because I don't know. Are you talking to a lot of people? A lot of people are talking about Zoom fatigue, but maybe it's because my job is what it is. You know, I do interview, but I don't't i'm not talking to a lot of people on zoom or facetiming or or talking to anybody it's weird it's more of a check-in thing like dude you all right yeah good here okay checking in and that's it but i did end up uh spending some time to talk to my buddy sam lipsight for about a about a half hour hour yesterday and that's great i got to do

more of that but it's what i think is odd in thinking about the past and going through things about the past. I can very specifically remember, and this is because Monkey is sick and because I lost La Fonda a few months back. I got an email relating to La Fonda, actually. I'll get back to this. Let's see. Where is that email?

Perfect guitar name. Dear Mark, thank you for WTF. I feel like a serial podcast dater who finally found the one for real this time. I especially love that we share a big heart for cats. I have three and as is tradition or psychological quirk, they all have several names each. The names they started with, however, are Gizmo, Seven, and May. I feed them catnip often because they live in quarantine all the time, regardless of the state of things right now. I recently purchased a Telecaster and I felt compelled to find the perfect name. I would never have imagined that name would involve you, but here we are. This evening, as I stared longingly into her Texas tea finish as she lay in her plush case all shiny and new, it hit me.

La Fonda. I'm going to name her La Fonda and I'm going to ask for Mark's blessing. Mark, may I name my Telecaster after your cat? Happy quarantining days to you and may the president fail at killing you and those you love. Respectfully, Aaron. Yes. Yes. president fail at killing you and those you love respectfully aaron yes yes you have permission and my blessing to name that amazing telecaster after my cat lafonda i'd never named my guitars am i

supposed to i've never named one fucking guitar anyway but i was reflecting on the memory i have of cat of dogs cats things that these animals i've had in my life outside of gerbils, or I've never had a fish, outside of rodents. But all the cats from my childhood all the way up to the ones I have now and the dogs from my childhood, I don't have dogs now, I haven't had in years, I remember very specifically exactly who and how they were as animals. Like, very specifically. Like La Fonda,. Like very specifically, like La Fonda.

I looked at a picture of La Fonda the other day because there's one around and I could completely remember everything about that cat in terms of her behavior. But I'm not, I can't do that with people. Like I remember bits and pieces of people, but look, animals change. They just they shift. They get older. They get, you know, they sweep a different place. They get a different quirk. They play with a different thing. But the sort of soul, if not soul, the core of who they are, you feel all the time because they're honest. It's all out.

They're not hiding anything other than the ability to turn on you, which I guess people do too. And that might be the reason why it's harder for me to remember people because of what they were hiding about themselves. People shift. And like, I have a good sense of a lot of the people in my life, but it's, it's very limited in particular and specific about certain things in certain the ways they did certain things, but animals, you fucking know them all the way through. And the memories are always going to be the same because they, they're all out honest, honest brokers, emotionally people, not so much. And then, and you know, that's true. Cause you know, you know, people when you're younger and then you meet them when you're older, you're like, what the fuck. And you know that's true because you know people when you're younger

and then you meet them when you're older. You're like, what the fuck happened to you? Where's the guy that was, what happened to that guy? Animals, not so much. You're just sort of like, oh, look at you. You're all old and shit. I do want to mention this. First, on my Instagram stories,

I've been almost exclusively posting records that I've been playing in quarantine. Because I've been listening to whole records kind of all day long in the background or sitting there and doing it. Records that I've had that I haven't really given a fair shake to. Like I didn't really ever focus in on the Pink Fairies, but I did yesterday. But I've been sort of posting all of them as I go through them. I didn't really ever focus in on the Pink Fairies, but I did yesterday. But I've been sort of posting all of them as I go through them. A lot of the sort of weirder and harder to find records, I enjoy posting those because I like to. It's a sort of like, this is a great album.

You probably never heard it. I'm not expecting people to go buy the records, but if you wanted to listen listen to it on itunes you could but anyway so i'm doing that i am occasionally and sporadically doing instagram stories oh i did want to say this about snl the musical numbers by pete davidson are kind of hilarious and very sweet uh the whole thing's moving to me i i can't quite understand why but but it is so yeah so i just wanted to give you a heads up about the instagram stuff also a friend of the show from way back dwayne kennedy was on a very early version of this show he was in our book waiting for the punch he's been this respected kind of off the beaten path act. Like, a lot of us know who he is. He's been around a long time.

He has a tremendous amount of respect in the business. But for some reason, after decades in the business, he's finally releasing his first comedy album, aptly titled Who the Hell is Dwayne Kennedy? And you can pre-order a copy of it at oakheadrecords.bandcamp.com That's O-A-K-H-E-A-D oakheadrecords.bandcamp.com It's decades in the making, folks.

Dwayne Kennedy's album. It's okay to be afraid. It's okay to be angry. It's okay to be afraid. It's okay to be angry. It's okay to be frightened. And to be vulnerable in all those things because you can't avoid it. It's a weird thing about concern that when you're concerned, there's a vulnerability to it. Same with being afraid and being angry. vulnerability to it same with being afraid and being angry you know a lot of people think that you're keeping people away but there's nothing more transparent than anger in terms of how

vulnerable you are it's a dangerous vulnerability because it's volatile but when you're any of those things you are you know vulnerable or susceptible to being you know shit upon or bullied or hurt because all those things are sort of just chum in the water for fucking belligerent, awful people. But you got to feel them. They're important. They'll help you move through things ultimately, get those muscles working

so you don't turn into an asshole. Manage it. Your concern, your fear, your anger, but don't shut them down. Because they'll just come out in tumors and inabilities to breathe, psychosomatic symptoms. You don't want to become one of the belligerent chaos junkies who wants to tear it all down pay homage to their god keck in their pursuit of single party rule keep open keep open so we can help people, help ourselves, and maybe things will recalibrate at some point.

I also want to say that I got the box of Chinese toilet paper that I ordered, I think, a month and a half ago. It was cheap. There was like 20 rolls, and I was like, this is weird. It came, and they were like miniature rolls of toilet paper. Not bad toilet paper. I bought it in a panic when you couldn't get toilet paper. And this is sort of surprised us. There it was.

20 rolls of what seemed to be half rolls of toilet paper. But we got them. Hey, little toilet paper is not nothing. So Laura Linney, I was thrilled to talk to. We were going to do this a couple weeks ago. And then there was an issue at her place. Her electricity was off. And now we're able to do it.

And it was a lovely talk. She's a lovely person and a great actress. And, of course, she's in the series Ozark, which is on now. They're all on now. Season three premiered last month, and you can watch all three seasons on Netflix. This is me talking to Laura Lynn. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, How a cannabis company competes with big corporations. How a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category. And what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.

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We are, I think, the last generation that was kind of fully able to adapt to what we have to do here. Yes, I think so. My parents could not handle it. We are, I think, the last generation that was kind of fully able to adapt to what we have to do here. Yes, I think so. My parents could not handle it. No way. Barely handle a phone. My mother, thank God, my mother has just started texting, but she does no email. She will not. Every computer I bought her, and I bought her several, is a lemon. Not her fault. She's just not going to do it. And now she's proud. Oh yeah. Wait till they get hold of the emojis. My mom's an emoji crazy. I know we're all going back to hieroglyphics. Yeah. And they get very excited. Language is going. Yeah. The poetry of text is very tight, very short and it's hieroglyphics.

Can't read the tone. I don't know if it's quite poetry, but hieroglyphics, yeah. Yeah, I guess that's true. Maybe I'm reading too much into it and being optimistic. You're being generous. When somebody's curt and dismissive, I'm like, well, that's a nice, tightly phrased line. Where are those glasses frames? Those are good. Thank you. People like these glasses. And I don't know where they're from. I think I bought them at Whole Foods.

Really? I think. You bought glasses at Whole Foods? Or CVS or something like that. I lose glasses constantly. I didn't know Whole Foods had glasses. Oh, yes, they do. They have a very nice little glass next to the soap.

Is that okay? I learned something today. So how are you feeling? I drink a lot of tea, so right now I'm all caffeinated and on the edge of sanity. A lot of energy for no reason. So you're all jacked up. Great. Yeah, that's what I do.

What do you do? Well, I have a six-year-old. So he's jacked up for you? Yes, that's right. And in some ways it's great because he keeps me on a schedule. Well, I have a six-year-old. So he's jacked up for you? Yes, that's right. So he, and in some ways it's great because he keeps me on a schedule. Yeah. Otherwise I would sleep in every day and.

Would you? Yeah, I probably would. I can't sleep in anymore. I don't know. I don't know if it's, I'm older. Oh, you're one of those. I'm up at 645. Seven. Yeah.

Seven, not 530. Yeah. I'm envious of that. Oh yeah? You'll sleep the day away? Well, I won't sleep the day away. I just, there are many days where I feel like I never fully wake up. Well, I didn't say that doesn't happen.

And that gets frustrating. No, that happens to me every day. I don't know what it feels like to feel good. Do you know what it feels like to feel good? To wake up and be like, wow, I feel great. I've had a few of those days, but not many. In your life? So I know they exist.

Yeah. So you sort of chase them. You sort of chase that. Yeah. But waking up refreshed. Yeah. And just instantly happy. Yeah.

Like just like endorphins at a high when you first wake up. No. And I can remember there was a period of time where I told myself, like, give yourself the process of waking up in the morning. Right. Like, don't just jump out of bed and go and all of a sudden be on edge instantly. Right. And really angry if the coffee isn't good.

Right. Yeah. Like, give myself at least even just a minute and a half. Yeah. And it actually helped a little bit. Well, now I have all the time in the world to wake up, but it's sort of uh it's not the same kind of peaceful feeling it's like what's the point yeah what's gonna happen today I know we're you're way upstate and you kind of hold up I'm in Connecticut I'm in the northwest corner of Connecticut oh is it pretty it's

beautiful here and you don't did you live in New York forever or never? I grew up, I was born in Manhattan and grew up in Manhattan. What part of Manhattan? Well, I grew up on the Upper East Side. My mother was a nurse at Sloan Kettering, which is the big cancer hospital there. She's a cancer nurse. She was, yeah, a private duty cancer nurse. Wow.

And she worked 12 hour shifts. And my parents split when I was young, So I, I grew up with her. But was your dad down the street? No, my father was on the other side of central park. He was across town bus ride away, but same city, same city, two very different worlds. The apartment with my mother and the apartment with my father were very different places. And I would go back and forth. But, but it was But it was not like he disappeared from your life. He just went over across the park. He would disappear occasionally. Yeah. But he always came back. So what was it? So your mom was very grounded, nurturing care person.

My mother was, yes. my mother is unbelievably beautiful. Oh, that's nice. Exquisitely, like a really stunningly beautiful woman. Yeah. And, and she found herself a single parent and she had to work very,

very hard to keep it going. Yeah. And, you know, and I was, uh, and I tried to be as a good a child as I could to help her because it was stressful for her. You had to grow up quick.

Yeah. I grew up a little fast. Right. Because you could sense your mom was strained and that it wasn't the right. Yeah. She was exhausted and tired. And she might, there was a very nasty divorce with my father and they really did not get along and I never did. Never.

You know, even, even decades later, it was very, very difficult. But you have no recollection of them together. I have, I saw them together three times in my life in the same field of vision. That's it. and I was so like every molecule in my body sort of jangled when I saw them when I could look at my father and then turn my head and look at my mother

it was and the last time they were together was that the first two times were too upsetting how old were you? I was really young my father came to pick me up one time on a Christmas day. Yeah. Because what used to happen is he would come, he would visit, he would pick me up in his VW orange bug. My mother would say goodbye to me upstairs and I'd take the elevator down and then I'd go get in the car with him and he'd drive me over to the west

side and I'd spend the weekend with him and he would drive me back right so they never saw each other um they really did not like it at all it sounds like it really didn't and then there I was hi the constant reminder yeah um so he came over to pick me up one time and there were other people around there was family around and I they were both still freaked out to be in the same room that that wasn't fun. And then the second time was my high school graduation. And my mother had remarried and was with my stepfather. And my father was with my stepmother, who I loved. I loved both my stepparents.

That's nice. Yeah, thank God. But I remember my mother and my stepfather were on the floor of the auditorium and my father was in the balcony. And I can remember at the graduation, like looking, and I was on stage, sitting on stage. And I can remember looking at one and then looking at the other. And that was the first time I was really an adult. And I was so aware that they were both there. And he was looming, looming over you in the balcony somewhere. Yeah. Far away. I think both freaked out that the other was there. Oh, yeah. And the third one was I, I received much to my surprise. I received an honorary doctorate at my college. Yeah. And I went to Brown university. Oh, that one. And they, that one. And they both showed up for that. And they were both so happy and they really got along and it was really nice and very

important for me, like more important for me than I even realized, you know, that they, they enjoyed being in the room together. They laughed, They were comfortable in their own skin. They were kind to each other, to me. It was really nice. Wow. It's sort of wild how long that can take people. Yeah. I mean, to sort of, I don't know if it's growing up, but I mean, because, you know, again, we're in the same age range. Like there were so many things that were so important and seemingly just life or death, emotional situations when you're younger. And it's like, it doesn't even fucking matter anymore.

Yeah. Like, you know, like there's gotta be a moment where whatever resentment you're holding on to just kind of melts away. You don't even know why. And you also like wonder like what, what happened for that type of. Do you think they asked that themselves uh probably yeah but it's it's something neither of them wanted to talk about and i think they both tried to they tried their best they weren't it wasn't sort of anger for sport. I think it was.

Yeah. There was clearly a deep, very deep sense of betrayal. And my father was a wonderful, brilliant man, but he was also difficult and had a lot going on, had a lot going on. So I'm not, it makes a lot of sense that it would be difficult he was in the arts right he was a he was a playwright so he's living that life in the what the early 60s yeah doing the thing 70s yeah and your mom's like a nurse living that life yeah my father was reactive and my mother was dealing. Right. But he's out in God knows what with the theater parties and the-

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Smoking the cigarettes probably. That's right. Yeah. He was a big drinker. Yeah, he was a big drinker. He stopped, fortunately, but it was not fun.

Oh, so he was a big enough drinker to have to stop. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh man. Really? And, and many other things that I know of and God knows what I don't know of. But did you, it's always a tip of the tip of the iceberg. Well, I have to imagine that you, you going into theater, that given that he was a presence that you probably heard things throughout a good part of your life about the guy oh yeah oh no i would meet people i would go into rooms to audition when i got out of school right people would make they'd say are you

related to romulus lenny and i'd say yes i'm his daughter and i could see this depending upon what their relationship was with him because he angered a lot of people right and a lot of people adored him right so it was not he was nowhere in between people either loved him right or he had been really awful to them and you could see it in their face was there oh my god just moments oh my god and it would and then when i started actually working yeah and if there were people who realized it would take them a while to realize that I was not my father, that I love my father. And then I got, just got to the brave part where I would say, and, and, you know, they would feel like I worked, I knew your father and I was like, how was that? And how was that for you? Knowing it could be one way or the other. But I adored him. And he was a challenging, fascinating man and brilliant.

It seems like your mother probably did you a big favor in a way. Oh, absolutely she did. Oh, absolutely. That you not only had a buffer, but you had sort of like, you know, she was your primary. So you didn't have to kind of, you know, totally be absorbed in his emotional, erratic and dangerous behavior. Absolutely. But you, you grow up fast. I know, but it seems like you did, you know, you seems like you went the right direction.

You know, thank God I had some sort of survival instinct that I don't even quite understand. Like I had some sense of how to keep myself safe and where to go and when to leave a situation. Like when to like I I went to boarding school for a reason. Like I got myself out. I found a school. I applied on my own. I was like, see ya. What was what was so menacing?

It wasn't menacing. I just had an instinct that I should go somewhere else. Oh, for that, for the high school time? Yeah. That it would help me, that it would help my family, that it would help everybody. But you know, and I just had an instinct to go to the country. Oh, that's what's great. Because like the weird thing is like when you have a parent who's kind of kooky or that's like a light word. But, you know, whether they're, you know, kind of boozy or emotionally erratic. I mean, you could either kind of be like you seemingly pretty stabilized or you could be like out of your fucking mind. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's true. I'm very lucky.

You went the other way. Yeah. Oh, no. And I have thought about that a lot. Yeah. I don't know why that happens. What do you find? What do you figure? I don't know. You know, it's the cards you're dealt. I mean, like I I was not dealt the addiction card. Right. And also, but it didn't appeal to you, obviously, the lifestyle necessarily. Yeah, no, I know, like a Juilliard or Brown or wherever, I mean, were you the person that was, you know, hanging around people that were clearly out of fucking control cleaning up glasses? I mean, what were you? No.

Oh, good. Yeah, no. You weren't the caretaker of like. But I dated, but I fell in love with a lot of drinkers. But I did that. I dated, you know, I dated all those guys. So when did you start? When you were a kid, were you hanging out at the theater?

Did you go to your father's like workshops or? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Oh, I loved it. You know, he would drag me. I mean, he didn't know what to do with a kid. God bless him.

He really didn't. And you know, so I became a peer. He could sort of function with me that way. So I was like the little. Lucky you had your mom. Yeah. Yeah. And also I realized I was safe

in that position. If I didn't behave like a daughter, like I could, I would be included. And so, oh, there you go. I sort of became that. So I would sit in the corner of rehearsal rooms and be very quiet and not bother anybody and just soak it in. And I loved it. I loved being there. Do you remember seeing actors that like blew you away? Oh, absolutely. And I can remember watching actors who were not good and being more fascinated by that. Why are they not good? Like what's going on there? Why is that not working? So I was more interested in that. Why am I not buying that? Yeah. Why do I feel nothing? Yeah. Oh, wow.

Why, why am I thinking while they're asking? Yes. Why have I not gone with them? So what is it that's keeping me out? Interesting. And were you, did you kind of work those problems in your head or did you talk to him about it? I did. Yes. All, all of those things.

I mean, he was fantastic with, I can remember being at school and just not understanding Shaw. Like, what is this? And I can remember calling him on the phone in like a hallway next to the butt room when they still let high schoolers smoke. I had that.

Do you remember that? They would let high schoolers, they would let a high schooler smoke. They couldn't stop us. They couldn't stop us. But they would get permission to smoke and there'd be a designated room in the basement of the dorms where 14 year old, no, 14 year old kids were smoking. So what did he say? You know, he, I don't even remember specifically what it was, but I loved listening to him talk about the theater I loved it I saw one production of Major Barbara and they put the entire budget into the gun at the end boom yeah well just it

was this giant thing that came out into the audience it was a college production and I was like oh my god because it ends with a gun, a giant cannon. It can. All right. So you're watching. Do you remember being sort of overwhelmed by any particular actors in that time? I imagine outside of your dad and the process of theater, that in order to kind of pursue acting, you must have been like that guy or that woman. Wow. Yeah.

I mean, Philip Bosco. Oh, yeah. Growing up watching Philip Bosco and John Lisko did a play called Spokesong at Circle in the Square, which was not particularly great, but he was fascinating. I saw a lot of plays at Circle in the Square growing up, a lot of the classics and a lot of them were mediocre, but God, I loved them. And then some were just great. He took me to the theater a lot. And so did my mother. My mother loved the theater as well. It's so specifically New York.

It's the only place you can grow up like that. I know. I know. And you sort of can't now because it's too expensive, which is a real shame. Yeah. And now maybe never again. It might not ever happen again. And now, I mean, I just can't even go there.

Have you thought that, though? The heartbreak of a world without theater? Well, all of it. Well, all of it. Theater, museums, dance, opera. Oh, my God. You know, I think it's going to restore eventually, but I don't know how it's going to come back together.

It's amazing what people are doing online just to get it out and get that human spirit of expression. But it's not the same. But we don't have to go there. So you went to the prep school. Did you act there? Yeah, I did. That's where it started?

All the time. It started before that. I mean, I was Mrs. Claus in the Everett school, second grade, you know, Christmas play. The memorable production of. Oh yes. That's right. A feminist take on Santa Claus. Santa got a cold and Mrs. Claus had to take over.

Nice. So I delivered the present. Wow. Ms. Magazine had come out that year. So it was whatever year that was. Life changer. Yeah. Yeah. And so when did you consciously start training? Well, it took me a long time to admit that I wanted to be an actress. I was very shy about it.

And I think because it was something I felt I had to earn. Right. And I didn't kind of want to offend the theater gods by saying I want to be an actress too early. Right. Right. I mean, I know it sounds a little silly, but I was I it always made me so uncomfortable when there was a young person like I want to be an actress. Right. And I sort of envied them and and was repelled by them at the same time. But you knew you honestly knew what that takes. But you knew, you honestly knew what that takes. I mean, to come up, you know, with a father like that and just that question that you had about people that weren't doing it kind of made you realize, like, no, there's a, got to learn some shit. Yeah, it's not just some sort of childish dream. It costs something.

Yeah. And it's noble. It can be very noble. Sure. Or it can be just completely self-serving. That's it. Yeah. Or both yeah or a combination of the two but well i think it's a very different sort of experience for people like you know that have kind of a dream of of like i want to be a movie star i want to be an actress or whatever and they just come out here and get you know beat up as opposed to you know somebody

who who digs into theater i mean that's a it's kind of a rare yeah thing well there's also there's the different without sounding you know totally annoying yeah there's a difference between a profession and a vocation and when you have a pull toward something in a with a vocation sort of wind at your back right i. I think it's a different experience. And then you learn how to how to braid the professional into it because you have to in this day and age. But it certainly helps

because you don't take the bait a lot of times. What do you mean? You just don't take the bait. You know, you just don't. You just you take the less glamorous choice because you think it's more interesting. Sure.

Right. Right. Right. You brush it off when someone says, you know, have you ever thought about having your nose done? You, you know, you, you just do the work. Right. You just do, you do the work and you know what you know and you stand there. And I've made many mistakes and I've done things that, you know, were terrible and bad, but I learned from them.

Yeah. But how long did it take you to put it into that framework as a learning experience as opposed to like, oh, my God. Why did I do that yeah no i know things just don't work out and there's a difference between doing something because you have a personal agenda behind it and it has nothing to do with the work and doing something that just doesn't work out it just isn't good yeah you know the things that just aren't good you know sure sometimes things just aren't good and they're great people and it's all done for the right reasons and what can it just doesn't work it doesn't come together yeah it's just bad isn't that weird bad in it yeah sometimes things just align in a very and they sort of for something to be great it kind of that kind of has to happen. When did you first experience that?

I don't know if I've, I've had it. I've had whiffs of it. I think the first tales, the city was really. Right. Yeah. I think John Adams was pretty, I'm very proud of that one. Yeah. That must've been amazing to just be on the sets of those things. It was a tough set and a lot of people did not have a good time doing it, but I loved it.

I loved it. Being in the period piece. Oh, I loved it. And every department was working at such a high level. Yeah. And it was so well funded.

Yeah. And it's this sort of example of when you give a generous amount of money to really good people. Right. Like what can happen what can happen like it's money that that was used well so every costume everything that was on that set we and i can remember there was a day where we were shooting we were at the white house yeah and they had cleared an entire

field acres and acres and acres of trees were down and they had spread fake snow all over the place. And they had this enormous replica of the outside of the white house. And I was standing there in this unbelievable outfit with hair and makeup that, you know, done by total artists. I can remember standing, looking out at this, like time travel. Right. Field of vision. Yeah. And I knew then I was like, I'm never going to see this again.

I was very aware of like, I don't think things like this don't happen very often. And I don't think I'll ever see this type of production again. And it was amazing. Wow. It's amazing to see like what's possible when things are aligned correctly. When you give support to skilled artists, like what they can do. Yeah. I sort of feel that way about the Harry Potter movies too.

You know, when you give money like that to people who are, you know, just, it's just pouring out of them, the creativity and the skill and the ability. And I also love people who, who can talk about what they do and then execute it because there are people who could really talk about it. And then there are people who could execute it, who you don't want to speak to. But when you get those people who are, who can do both, who have the ideas and then the skill to execute it. It's so exciting to be around. Yeah. Especially when it's like, there's so many of them. And if they're all working at a top, like for something like John Adams movie,

I mean, like I've only been on a few productions, but like that must've been massive. And there's so many people, so many people involved, you know, your costume set deck and just, you know, people doing the snow. I mean, that's this whole other. The wind machines were enormous. Oh, my God. And Paul was great to work with? Paul was great.

Paul was great. He's an interesting actor, huh? Yeah, he's a really good actor. He's a really good actor. I loved working with him. How do you, like, how do you judge that? Through connection? Like, you know, like, because there's a range of people's abilities. And as somebody, you know, I've noticed this

before, but obviously I don't have much experience, but, but when somebody is not meeting you where you are, you sort of have to, you have to act on top of acting. Yes. But you have to be careful because then you can over-generate. Oh, right. You have to be careful and you just have to be careful because then you can overgenerate. Oh, right. You have to be careful and you just have to be helpful. But if you can somehow connect to someone. Right. Somehow. Then something good will be there.

It's odd, right? Because in the times I've done it, because I don't have great chops, but I can sort of put my heart out there. Yes, you can. Yes, you can. Yes, you can. And it's really good. Well, thank you. But you know when that's received. Even if it's supposed to be pushed back against, you can feel it happening, whatever's supposed to happen.

And when it doesn't happen, you're sort of like, okay, I got to just pretend like I'm acting as this guy, but now I got to pretend like I'm getting what I need. There was one play that I was in with someone who just had all sorts of issues and all sorts of problems. Yeah. And I took my contact lenses out so that I wouldn't have to see them completely. Because I realized if I – it's terrible, but it's true. Did that work? If I reacted, it helped. I mean, it terrible but true did that work reacted it helped

i mean it didn't save the thing but it helped but i realized if i took in and reacted to what i was seeing yeah it would not be the play so it was an effort to sort of keep the the car in the right lane wow what it what that's like some it's interesting when you have to troubleshoot and the vessel is you. When you have an issue like that, to sort of MacGyver your capacity to stay engaged in a role, you have to blur the person. Yeah. That's kind of a brilliant idea. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of a, it's a brilliant idea. And then I did what I called buttonhole acting. What does that mean? Where you made a choice, you would stare at the butt, at the first buttonhole.

Oh. And just stare there. Wow. You sort of cock your head and bend down, look down a little bit, make a sort of submissive sort of character choice and just look at the buttonhole you never look at someone's face when you do when you make choices like in in roles are you that are you are you that like minutiae oriented where you can make decisions like that i mean obviously when you're doing tv or movies you have you know there's framing involved but even in plays it must be be different. I mean, in plays, you've got to get that role going.

You've got to stay in it. Well, you have time. You have the element of time. And also, it's what time does to a group of people. Right. And it's nothing you can generate. It's nothing you can create. And it's something that just happens, the layers of experience week after week, show after show.

And then the play will reveal itself in a different way the more you do it. And I love that. I love when you stop working on the play and the play starts working on you. It doesn't happen all the time. But when it does happen, it can be magical. And you can just feel it turn. You're almost like the time. Right. But when it does happen, it's just, it can be magical. And you can just feel it turn. You're like, almost like the day it happens. You can feel it lifts off the page.

You know, there's that period of time in the third week of rehearsal, which is so painful. Yeah. When you hate yourself, you hate the play, you think you're ruining everything around you. You feel like you should quit and they should get someone better. And it's, it always happens. It always happens around the same time. And it's the,

one of the great lessons of the theater. And there are many of them, but one of them is like learning how to sit in discomfort. You have to sit in the discomfort and go through the process of allowing things to come together. And that just takes time. You can all, the only thing you can do is keep working through the discomfort and have,

thank God I've done it long enough now to have faith that it will, it will work out. Sometimes it doesn't, but a lot of the times it, if you keep working and sit in that discomfort and let it teach you things, like you're uncomfortable for a reason. I'm like, why am I uncomfortable? Why am I? What feels bad and why is it?

Be diagnostic about it and slowly tinker here and there and let your knowledge of the play, the power of the play come out, your connection to other people, and then it will sort of become its own thing. Right. And it's a very exciting period of time. Well, you have to have a certain confidence and patience and experience to allow that to happen. I mean, I imagine it seems like pretty good life advice as well in general. Absolutely. But with any sort of creative endeavor, it took me a long time to accept that because, you know, your insecurity can destroy that. I mean, if you have insecurity, you know, the waiting or the discomfort, you'll just turn it in on yourself and then it's over. Yes, absolutely. Which is why our industry, film, television, is so rough on addicts.

Really, really rough. Yeah. I mean, if you have addiction, you know, which many, many, many, many, many, many people do. Yeah. It is a recipe. It can be a recipe for disaster. Well, I was always fortunate when I was, you know, using that. It was not something I needed to do to do other things. You know, like I did not like being high on stage. Like it was not good. But I knew guys who were like, you know, needed whatever it was.

Yeah, me too. But then you sit there and you're like, well, that's that's its own talent. How the fuck is that guy doing that? That fucked up. Yeah. But not for long. It's progressive. Yeah, right. They'll fall over and ruin themselves and ruin other people. Did you see that?

Did your old man have that? Did he get that bad for him? Yeah. Yeah. He burned a lot of bridges. He was a very passionate man. He was a very powerful person and he, he had language. Right. He had language. He had the skill of the word that he could, um. He's a flamethrower.

Yeah. And, you know, it was, I always wished I could have given him a little more sense of peace. But now, you know, you can't do that. You never. How long was he able to stay? So like, how long did he live sober? I'm not quite sure. It's all a little fuzzy. Yeah. Yeah. But I I have a sister who's 11 years younger than I am. And I think he stopped drinking shortly after she was born. Yeah. Because I remember having a conversation with him about it. And did his quality of life or engagement change?

Oh, Oh sure. I'm sure it did, but he was still, you know, yeah. All over the place. He didn't go to the program.

He wasn't, he had no, no program. So there was no dry drunk. Yeah. There was no, um, no tools.

Right. Um, so probably that got a little um so probably got a little it probably got a little edgier a little more angry probably didn't help yeah yeah it was you know the problem with being good with words and being a a kind of sensitive passionate angry person is that you can say things to people that you will never be able to take back and they will never forget it. They'll never forget it. And they won't forgive you. No, no. And, and nor should they.

Hmm. In some ways, for some, in some cases. I guess that's true. In some cases. No, why should they? I don't know. It's a good question about forgiveness. You know, I, you know, I, it's a really, to really do it is a really challenging thing.

It's really hard. And you know, it gets easier as you get older, if the injury is, you know, kind of faded, but man, to, to sort of like be confronted with the idea of it. Like, you know, you know, you have to forgive this person. You like, and you, and you can feel in your heart what that work requires. Tough man. Really hard. And when you want to, but you can't do your heart what that work requires. Tough, man. Really hard. And when you want to, but you can't do the work to do it. Oh, yeah.

Because the resentment or the anger still like overrides it. And you don't want to go there. You're like, I don't have to go back there. Yeah. What's the benefit? Yeah. So great. So they're forgiven. Fantastic.

They're going to feel a lot better. Good for them. And fuck them. Wait a minute. I didn't do it right. Exactly. Yeah i guess i didn't forgive yeah forgiveness is hard yeah and forgiving yourself is hard oh yeah yeah you know if you change your behavior it's a little easier because there's less of a docket of things you have to forgive yourself for yeah right but yeah it is yeah of a docket of things you have to forgive yourself for. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It is. Yeah, it is. And to realize that you have like many different

lifetimes in one lifetime is also true. You know, if you're lucky, it's true. So like I watched. Oh, I'm nervous now. I mean, I just watch. You can count on me i watch that oh yeah yeah it's good it really is good really good it really is good you know and he has he has made three brilliant films and he's one of those guys it's like it's like you know i'm not gonna overwork myself and because you know when he does something you're kind of like all right well we gotta reckon with this yeah and i interviewed that guy he's kenny lonergan yeah yeah he's an intense you know kind of dark genius guy talking you know they're always there and also also very loving underneath all of that yeah i felt that you know i felt that but like you know like for some reason when you see someone's work you know i always make

assumptions like paul thomas anderson is another example but you get them in a room and you're sort of like no you're just kind of a you know they're not that intimidating right yeah they're just kind of regular guys in a weird way yeah who are just really good at what they do but coming out yeah but coming out of theater and doing like you know the because you did a lot of theater and stuff but i mean when you see writing like that like and i and i don't want to do old news, but I mean, because you did other things before that that were fun and good.

But like that movie, when you watch it now, and I re-watch it, there's the language of it and the way he writes characters is so perfect almost. Oh, yeah. It's heaven for an actor. Yeah?

It's heaven. Everything you need is right there. And there are clues everywhere. And if you're sensitive to a writer and what they're writing, if they're really good, they write everything for a reason. Right.

And the great writers, the ones who write very specifically, the punctuation tells you so much. Right. And the great writers, the ones who write like very specifically. Yeah. Punctuation tells you so much. Right. And he didn't overwrite anything. No. No explaining. No. Every stutter is written. Really? Every. Oh, yeah. It's very, very exact. And I've never worked with anyone who understands their own work better than he does. Is that was that problematic? It could be. It could be. It could be frustrating. But he was right. Uh huh. Did you guys fight? We locked horns a few times, but in a friendly, nice way. Just actor director way? Yeah. Like, I don't understand that, like in a respectful way.

But we would lock horns. I would be like, I don't, this doesn't make sense. Like, where is this? Where, I don't, this doesn't feel right. Yeah, and I don't want to do that. It feels, patronizing it, or whatever it was, who knows. But he was always right. And I was wrong. Have you seen his plays as well?

Have you ever been in a play of his? I've never been in a play of his, no. But I was wrong. Have you seen his plays as well? Have you ever been in a play of his? I've never been in a play of his, no, but I love them. Waverly Gallery and This Is Our Youth. I just saw Waverly Gallery, I think. They just did a revival of it, right? They did. They sure did.

Yeah, I saw that when I was in New York once. And Elaine May won the Tony for it. And her daughter is a great actress. Yes, and a director, I believe, yes. But she was in that other Lonergan movie, the long one. Margaret. Oh, my God. Yeah.

Margaret and Manchester by the Sea. So there's You Can Count on Me, Margaret, and Manchester by the Sea. All of them start with a horrendous death. That's right. They're all about death. Or they're all, they center around a the death like and he never realized that i guess i interviewed him once um he came to telly ride with um manchester by the sea and yeah i go to that i go to that film festival every year and i try to and uh and they asked me to interview him

at this forum and i did and i said you know you realize every every you've made three movies I think they're all masterpieces I really do and they're all they're all instigated by a very painful death and he he didn't quite see that at the time or he seemed to not see that maybe he knew it and just didn't didn't get up to it but but isn't it wild structurally that like that? Well, I think in some sort of classic structure that would imply that. You know, it should work towards some kind of resolve, like not not a happy ending, but it seems like tragedy versus calm. Like if you're going to start with the tragedy that the arc should be like oh okay things are going to be okay but none of them really end like that they end they end with things are things yeah right and it makes you think about like what do you do with death of that proportion

how do you and i've i've lost i'm sure you did as. I lost a lot of friends during the AIDS crisis. And I've lost a lot of people and people who I loved and people who I needed. I've lost more to drugs, I think. Yeah. Yeah. That too. That too. And then what do you do with that?

And when they're young and your life with them was not completed. Like, what do you do with the love that you have for that person? Where does it go? Where do you put it? And how do you make it not sink you? How do you take the spirit of that person and incorporate it in your life in a way that makes you better? That makes it, you know, it's painful. But how do you, what do you, what do you do with that? And it, how do you keep them alive for yourself? That's not crazy and obsessive,

but how do you keep what they gave you still close at hand? Yeah. And how, and what have you, how have you done that? Well, I have friends who were, you know, unbelievable at dinner parties. Yeah. I'm not much of that person. And I really fumbled my way through, but I try and I haven't done it in over a year now, but I try and have small gatherings of people and it's my own way of honoring them. Yeah, sure. You know, Alan Rickman and Natasha Richardson were amazing at bringing people together, at having a meal, and so far out of my comfort zone. But I try and do that because that's what they taught me. You entertain people? I coach. I'm really bad at it, but I try. But isn't it so much of that about bringing the right people together?

True. Yeah. You know, I'm an inconsistent cook at best. Yeah. I don't handle that stress terribly well, but I try. I think about that a lot because there's definitely people that have passed that I knew. You know, I don't know. The depth of my relationship is usually one-sided in a lot of ways. Like I make assumptions about like my connection with people that is sometimes real and sometimes isn't. But I, you know, a lot of times as I get older, I kind of just, I don't grieve properly. I'm just sort of like, well, you know,

that's how it ends, you know? And I think I stuff it down. But I do find that I have reverence for people and I always speak highly of the people that had an influence on me. And in my, for the first time in my last comedy special that is on now, like I can see where my love of certain people in my life,

comedians in particular manifest in me and how I, I honor that creatively. I can bring them with you. You bring them with you. Right. I bring them with you on stage. I do that. Yeah. You know, I try to summon Phil Hoffman whenever I can. Yeah. Like, come on, dude, help me out. Yeah. Yeah. Come on with me, baby. Yeah. I do. I do that all the time. How does he inform you? What did you, what was it? I loved him I loved himself. I loved himself. We did The Savages together. Yeah, it's a great movie.

And I just, we understood each other in a way that was such a relief. Yeah. He was, it was such a relief for me to be around him. Oh yeah. He kind of saw me in a way that most people didn't. It was such a relief for me to be around him. Oh, yeah? He kind of saw me in a way that most people didn't. So we really had a very strong friendship that way. Yeah. Unspoken, kind of?

No, we kind of acknowledged it a little bit but um you know we kept it you know those sacred friendships that you have with people yeah and i i truly like many other people i am not alone here i truly loved him and he was uh important and important to me. And he made me a better actor and I, and we loved being, we loved working together. It was, uh, and I have, I have many relationships with many actors who I, who I love. I love what I do and, and I've worked with a lot of great people. Um, but Phil was, Phil could, I don't know.

I think we had a lot in common. I think there was an intersection of pain, really, that we understood about each other and felt safe with each other and seen. Like we just got each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah well where do you track your pain to oh god well you know i think it's you know when you're the child of a divorce and there's addiction and yeah and growing up too fast you have it yeah and you know and your heart gets your heart gets broken a lot you have to act like an adult but you have the sensitivity of a child that's right and when

you're a child and your heart gets broken when your heart gets broken too young and you don't even understand what it is yeah i think it's i think it's like a bell has been really rung and it still resonates you know just it doesn't leave your system. That is a very good way to put it. Cause like, I, you know, and it's also a resource. It's weird cause I could like, when you put it like that, I can tap into it right now. Yeah. That vibration. Yeah. And then you have to learn how to live with it, how to let it go if you can which i don't really can or at least balance it with some other good shit and well put it in perspective right it's not all of you it informs a lot there's no question that everyone who knows me i'm sure would say that

but i think it's made me a kinder person. Yeah. Yeah. And we're like with, with Phil, like I never met him and certainly I like, you know, I thought he was amazing, but like as an actor, like,

you know, what quality do you think in him was, was truly the gift? Like, you know, as when you acted with him or when you see him acting, what did he Like, you know, when you acted with him or when you see him acting, what did he offer, you know, that was unique?

You know, there were people who were just on a different plane. Just on a different level. And he had an actor brain. I call it the actor brain. Because when your actor brain gets turned on and then you can execute the actor brain. Yeah. It's really amazing.

And he could do that. Right. He could really go deeper with freedom. It was even though it was it cost and it was hard and he suffered. There was a freedom to his execution. Right. That was deep and the connections were powerful and rich. And he understood the different levels of creating something.

It was whole and full and human, deeply human. He's one of those people that had their own time zone like there was just yeah there was an authenticity to it that could never be altered he could touch truth yeah in a way so that then that would do a lot of the work for him nice you had to really go right to that point and touch the truth which then is is just relief. Then you're just, an audience is relieved, you know, there's something about tickling the truth. Like when you can tickle the truth of something, then it's just, uh, that's what you're doing. It's exciting. Yeah. Yeah. And it's life affirming. It makes you wake you up. Someone who's sombulent like me, like it's all of a sudden I'm woken up by that.

Right. So when you like summon his spirit in your work, what do you, what is it really usually? How do you, how do you, what, what do you do? How does that work? Like when you're like, kind of think like, do you ever think like, what would, how would Phil do this or how would he react? Or he, you know, you, you just tap into the feeling you had when you kind of were with him i i yes i think all of them and also how much he loved the theater you know he loved the theater as much as i did he loved he loved it he loved it the other thing i was thinking about like

in thinking about people i've known who have passed away and like just this whole idea and that we're 56. I mean, where do you where do you stand on the whole mortality thing? How are you holding up with that? Do you think about it? Of course I do. And I have a six year old. I had a child right before I turned 50. So I think about it in terms of that.

And I know that my, you know, hopefully I will live a good long time. Yeah. I think there she comes. Here he is. Yes. Where's the closet downstairs? Where's the closet downstairs? The closet downstairs.

You go down the stairs. You go towards the window and it's underneath the staircase. Hi. This is my friend, Mark. I'm having a conversation with him. It's a closet you can go into. Go for it. Yeah. And that's your day. So I think about mortality a lot.

Right. Because of that precious, wonderful human being. And I know that having a child later in life, because of that precious wonderful human being yeah and i know that having a child later in life part of that my responsibility yeah is to teach him how to function and you're doing more than likely i i'm trying to you know more than likely i won't i won't be around for you know the latter part of his life i'm gonna try and stick around as long as i can but you know yeah i you know i that's the weird thing about like i i show a lot of gratitude lately publicly for not having children um but i don't i didn't do it with like a purpose it just i just was too selfish to engage just how life goes yeah i don't i don't mind in some ways thank god you didn't have children. Yeah. If that's true.

For sure. But you love it. You're loving it. I do. I do. Yes. I do have to ask you a couple of Mystic River questions. Oh, sure. Did you like doing that movie? I loved it. When you have to do a role like that, it's obviously, well, it's interesting because there is a similarity between that character and in terms of moral compass and the character you play on Ozark in some weird way. Where you have to, right? You have to make this adjustment to do right by your family. Right.

With compromising your moral integrity completely. If you have one. If you have a moral integrity to begin with. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think the one in Mystic River, I kind of did, a kind of weird neighborhood. I don't know. But there's a different type of morality. But I don't know about the Ozark character.

She's really fun. Yeah. It's fun to play someone who is really shrewd, smart, skillful, and emotionally really immature. Right.

And she's just reactive. When you're preparing for something like, for someone like that, do you really take that into consideration or you just deal with the lines? Do you just deal with the emotions of it? Do you place judgment on into consideration or you just deal with the lines? You just deal with the emotions of it. Do you place judgment on yourself, on the character? You know what I mean? Like this person's a bad person.

You know, you can't really do that, can you? No, you have to honor the person you're playing and you have to play them fully. You've got to want to be there. It's so funny. I just had this weird moment where I'm like, it's sort of like you're an emotional lawyer. You have to give that character the defense it deserves. You just have to play it honestly. Yeah, right. And figure out like why. What's the why behind

the behavior? What's the why behind the desire? What's really going on there yeah it's a it's like a it's a dark weird world and that that woman who plays uh the strip club manager the what's her name garner julia garner is she another one of those people she's great yeah there's like an instinctive talent there that is really just lights up. Yeah, she's amazing. That's an example of like the right actor with the right part. Right. I mean, it just clicked.

And like her voice and the sound of that language and the color of her skin and that hair and her vocal intonation and her understanding of that character on a deep instinctive level is just great. It's really, really wonderful. And how's your relationship with Jason? With Jason's good. He's nice. He's a good guy, right? Solid. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. He's one of those guys where it's like, he knows, like when he's in his wheelhouse, he's so fucking great. You know what I mean? Like, like he does a thing like he can, it can be funny. It can be dickish. It can be, you know, calculating, but there's a, there's a Bateman wheelhouse. That's always very satisfying. hours and hours and hours of observation and drinking it in and skill. And, and he's at a point now where he's fully able to take all of that and apply it somewhere else. Yeah.

You know, he's directing a lot too, right? Yeah. And he's a great director. Oh, that's great. Really good director. Really, really good. Where do you shoot most of that stuff? Atlanta.

Oh, outside of Atlanta. Yeah. It's where everything's being shot. Lake Lanier, Lake Alatoona. It's fantastic. I love working there. Yeah, I was there for a couple weeks on a movie thing, but I didn't get out much. But I like the city.

Well, you know, he's one of those, they're going to open that city up in two weeks. So see how that goes. Yeah. But it's weird when you, like, I'm assuming we're politically like minded that when you when you're down there and you work with all these great people in Atlanta, you know, kind of, you know, with, you know, liberal people, creative people. It's a great sort of cultural environment there. But you realize, like, you're you're in this red state, you're surrounded by this ideological disposition and you're kind of the minority there. And it's really it's weird when you work there, but you're kind of like, I love it here. And then you realize that the people that live down there have been living with that dichotomy their entire lives.

Well, my whole family is from southern Georgia. Really? Yes. I'm the first person born above the Mason-Dixon line. So you know it well. I know it very well. And there are people who I love deeply who have the exact opposite political views that I do. And that's a gift, actually, because you learn to see past politics. Tolerance. you learn to see past politics. Tolerance.

With people even who are saying things that just go against every fiber of your being. But do you ever think like with those people, I mean, obviously it's become sort of extreme and it's not just sort of like we have different views. Now it's like we live in different worlds. Yeah, and there's a provocative thing that is very hard to handle. And do you ever find, like, you know, when you talk about having, you know, friends who passed of AIDS or having, you know, living the life you live in New York City and all this kind of society, you are really kind of pictured as an enemy of some kind, as an elite and, you know, not just liberal, but like the language has become really, you know, other.

But you still are able to talk to them? Yes. And you find that they're able to talk to you with love that would transcend the venom? They try harder with me probably than anybody else. They love me, and I know they love me. And I love them. And these are cousins and stuff? These are cousins, yeah. And it was wonderful. We used to have a family reunion every year.

We still do, but people would get together, talk politics, throw their arms up in the air, yell at each other, get really confounded all these cousins who grew up together, you know, in Southern Georgia. And then you all sit down and you have dinner and you pass the gravy and you, you know, Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you talk and you love each other. Right. And then there's family.

Right. So it's, and it's sitting in discomfort again. It's that. You know, over and over and over again. As a life lesson. Like how do you sit in discomfort and not have it buck you out? How do you stay in it and have it help you? Is your father's side?

My father didn't have much family. So my mother has a large family, but my father had no siblings, had a few cousins who I didn't know. My grandmother I adored. But there was my father and my stepmother who is is still alive and who i love right my sister and my grandmother and that was really it from that side of the family and my mother has all these cousins oh yeah all this stuff so that was fun was your father like able to um how did he respond to your work did he live long enough to see oh yeah yeah he saw a lot of it it was very hard for him at

first oh yeah it really was in what way he didn't quite know how to handle it i don't know i he just didn't like it i think it was hard for him and it was hard for him when i started to get some attention oh narcissism um yeah it was and then he was extremely proud. Oh, good. And then he was extremely proud and he was, he was great about it, but I think it was hard for him. I don't think it was easy. And I felt bad about that. I really did. I felt bad. Well, there's something about like when your existence causes someone you love pain. Yeah. But how did that trump the idea that your father can't even experience, you know, pride and appreciation for, well, he, he had that and

he had the other resentment, you know? Yeah. I think there was a battle back and forth about that. You know, I had a much easier time than he did. Um, as far as my professional life, getting along with people, you know, it was, it was easier for me. Right. I also wasn't an alcoholic, so, you know, but he burned a lot of bridges and they were, it was, he was, he also, I, I also was born more than anything else. I was born with the right disposition for this business. You know, I have the right disposition for this business you know i have the right disposition for it i don't freak out if i don't get a part i'm not mortally wounded if someone goes in a different direction or if someone says they don't like my work you know if i get a really stinky review i don't read them anymore but you know early on it would hurt but then i'd get over it

yeah you know i just sort of uh all of that sort of isn't as important to me as the work and my friendships and the connections I have there. And fortunately, I was able to grab onto that stuff more than I did. But it's just weird. It's like, I'm glad that he was able to, like, because, you know, my parents are obviously not in the business, but they are selfish and they are self-centered. And I think that if somebody grows up with that kind of weird lack of boundary with parents, where they're not really parents, they're just these people you grow up with, that they kind of, they see you as an extension of them. And then when you act in a way that's detached from them, it's almost like their limb is out doing things

that they can't do without them and they're not getting credit for it, you know? Right, right. Or there's a sense of embarrassment or there's, you know. Oh, really? Well, yeah, well, you're in the same world. But what would the, they're embarrassed at their failure or at their?

No, you know, I've played a lot of unglamorous women right right yeah and that has been very hard for my mother she's had a hard time with that why do you have to do why do you have to play these you know women you know that's that can be a little hard for her but she's always been always been supportive. But your old man was able to come around and you were able to feel his actual pride eventually. Oh, sure. That's great. I felt all of it. That's a great time.

I felt all of it. I felt the whole poo-poo platter of what he had to offer. Well, good. That's good. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you, it was definitely nice talking to you. Well, same here. What a pleasure.

I'm glad we- I've really been looking forward to this for a long time. So thank you for having me on and thank you for- And we did it like this in the new world. How about that? This was the best one. I've only done a couple and I worry about, because I'm so used to having people here, you know, and you can kind of see my house and stuff, but we definitely focused and connected and,

you know, I had emotional feelings. All the things happened. It's really nice when you have a real conversation with someone. It is. It's really a good thing. It is. It's just good for you. Oh, no.

You telling me? Like I, if I don't have them, I go crazy. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, take care and stay safe. Thank you. That was a great conversation, no matter how it happened, no matter where it happened.

That would have been perfect right here in the garage or just exactly the way it went. Go watch all of her movies. But she's currently in Ozark. Season 3 premiered last month, and you can watch all of the seasons on Netflix. I pulled out a guitar that I never really played that I had that was a gift actually from IFC years ago when I was doing my show there.

It's a J. Maskis Squire Jazzmaster. I'm going to play it now through the Dispatchmaster pedal from Earthquaker into my 1953, I believe, Fender Deluxe Tube Monster. Thank you. Boomer lives! created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly

regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com.