WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1119 - Whitmer Thomas

Episode Date: April 30, 2020

Comedian Whitmer Thomas and Marc made a movie together in Alabama. But while Marc was just a visitor, Whitmer knows Alabama to the core. Growing up in Gulf Shores and living the life of a disaffected Southern skateboarding garage rocker, Whitmer was surrounded by family dysfunction that involved alcoholism, drug addiction, failed show business dreams, jail and eventually death. Whitmer says it was hard to process all of it but that’s what he did in his HBO special, The Golden One, as his desperation to connect made his creativity flourish. This episode is sponsored by The Kennedy Curse by James Patterson and Pataday Once-Daily Relief. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated

category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die we control nothing beyond that

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Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucksters? What the fuckniks? What the fuckaholics? What the fuckadelics? What the fuck, Knicks? What the fuck, Aholics? What the fuck, Adelics?

What the fuck, Tuckians? I don't know why I'm specific about fuck Tucky. I got no, nothing specific other than I like saying it. What the fuck, Tuckians? So they're special only because I enjoy saying what the fuck, Tuckians. There's good people in Kentucky. there's good people all over but there are some horrible people too and some states have more than others if you know what i'm getting at okay now i'm not saying evil i'm not saying, you know, stupid. I'm not saying, you know, like human garbage.

I'm just saying horrible. And you know who they are and you know who you are. That being said, we are all trying to get through this time. How are you? Are you okay? Is everything all right? Did you get all that organizing done? Did you put that picture up? Did you figure out a way to get your kids to shut up for a few hours, an hour, 15 minutes? I talked to somebody the other day, today actually, I don't want to say who it is because it's an upcoming episode. I don't know when it's going to be on, but she brought up a fascinating thing. I thought her and her husband came up with an idea that I thought was a good idea.

And I don't have children. They have like two or three children and they were trying to figure out how do we make this work, this indefinite quarantine. And none of them had seen lost. So now they're in, there's like's like what is there 900 episodes of lost a thousand and seven how many thousand ten thousand fourteen so they're actually watching an episode none of them none of them have seen it so they're watching an episode a night how fucking genius is that i mean how many like that's something the whole family could lock into and you know you can just ride it out it's like it's built in babysitting i i've never seen any

of it grown-ups are doing tiktok i don't even know what the fuck that is but i mean i draw the line at twitter for stupid name shit tiktok grown people are doing tiktok so that means someone's going to say do you know how to do TikTok I'm like I don't want to even know what it is I don't want to know what it is because from my experience with this type of shit when someone says do you know what it is do you know how to do it and I go no and someone says you should check it out

it's probably a month to six months before I'm doing TikTok like I'll fight the good fight for a while. And then I'll be like, look, I did a TikTok. And then I'll be in the race.

Who's doing the best TikToks. You know, it's a matter of time. Whit Thomas is on the show. Whitmer Thomas, comedian, musician, actor,

worked with him on the film sort of trust he played one of the sympathetic rednecks the lynn shelton film so look you guys i want to address something that i i think upset a couple of people at least three right at least three i go through stuff you know with the shoulda woulda coulda or just you know beating myself up or just getting you know anxious about everything and freaked out uh you know not just about the disease about what happens when we get out am i am i going to do this am i going to do that like you know when my brain runs away with me there's only a couple of things i can do there's only a couple ways to wrangle it back There's only a couple of ways to wrangle it back in.

You know, when I get into the future horror and it's fairly dramatic self-talk that I engage in, okay, to make myself feel better. There's, you know, and this is addressing what I said the other day. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. I'm feel better. There's, you know, and this is addressing what I said the other day. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. I'm fucking done. It feels good to say that I'm fucking done, done with what exactly, whatever it is that I think is causing me anxiety, work, living in this country, eating life, cats, et cetera. It really doesn't mean i'm done it's just comforting to me i'm working on some

other ways to deal with it in in in in the sort of acceptance realm you know like hey man you know this is what it is right now that that feels okay but like a few seconds later, I'm back to like, I'm fucking done with this shit. Fucking done with it. But that's better than I'm going to kill myself. I think we've made progress just by me saying I'm done

in a general way with most things. But the point I'm trying to make to you is clearly I'm not. I'm not done, is what I'm done in a general way with most things. But the point I'm trying to make to you is clearly I'm not. I'm not done is what I'm saying. Okay. Because I got an email from a few concerned people. One guy sort of like, you know, go fuck yourself. If you're done, just do it already. It's not going to matter to us.

That was a nice email to get. But this woman julia subject line i'm done in quotes hey mark how funny it is to see the mantra of my last few days repeated by my favorite comedian podcaster going live on instagrammer actor etc you and i must have had the same epiphany at the same time about just being done. I'm done worrying. I'm done being anxious. I'm done spinning myself out. No, actually, Julia, it was quite different. I'm done with the things that cause those things to happen. Work, love, cats, life. You seem more together than me. And she writes, does it mean it actually does a full stop?

No, not really. But it helps because it's like I'm holding a stop sign up at my brain and I'm just like, stop, done, no. That's good. That's proactive. I've noticed a slight drop in anxiety in the past couple of days as well. But whether that's just a cycle and it will be back in force in another couple of days remains to be seen. Hang in there, Mark. Thank you.

Can't wait until this shit is over. Excited to see what we all look like. And oh my God, I'm excited to fucking hug someone. Jesus Christ, that has been the worst. Love you, Julia. Thank you. I'm not done. I'm not done, Julia.

I'm staying. I'm staying in the saddle. I'm good. This one, I don't know if I can read it, but it's sort of, it's about Laura Linney's dad. She talked about him. Difficult person. So I guess I can read this. Subject line, Laura Linney's dad squashed my creative soul. Hi, Mark. Listening at this moment to the Laura Linney's dad squashed my creative soul. Hi, Mark. Listening at this moment to the Laura Linney episode, I was in a graduate creative writing program at University of Pennsylvania in 1990, and Romulus Linney was the writer in residence.

My workshop mates responded powerfully and positively to the opening chapter of a novel I was working on, but the acclaimed playwright tore it to shreds. The class was stunned and I was crushed in real time. I dropped out of grad school for a lot of reasons. I still remember that feeling 30 years later. I struggled through lots of depression and OCD and addiction for years as a struggling writer until finally getting sober in 1998. And then I struggled with depression and OCD for a lot longer after getting sober. But that's another story. I'm coming up on 22 years of sobriety in a bit. Congratulations, pal. I've been reading my old manuscripts, unpublished novels and screenplays during the pandemic quarantine. Some of my old stuff is good. Some of it is bad. Most of it is both. Anyway, Laura sounds like an amazing person and something about her description of her

father soothed my 30 year old artistic injury for this moment. Anyway, go figure. I've emailed you before I moved to Albuquerque five years ago and I'm a psychoanalyst out here. Nice. Only mildly crushed that you never responded previously. Kidding. I think thanks for being a consistent, entertaining, thought provoking voice in my head and earbuds. There you go, David. It's your day. David, it's your day. It's happening.

David in Albuquerque, it's happening. I'm glad you landed on your feet after your hurt feelings. I hope that wasn't the straw, man. Heartbreak, man. It just never goes away. It just never goes away. It's just right there under the surface, and you don't got to scratch very far to feel that ache.

Whitmer Thomas has an HBO special on currently called Whitmer Thomas, the Golden One. It's available on all HBO platforms. The songs from the Golden One are available to stream or download and as CDs and LPs with two exclusive tracks not featured on the special. personal tale, an emotional tale that he talks about, what he goes through in the show, but also what you're about to hear from my conversation

with Widmer. So this is me talking to him. He came in live. He braved it. We sat apart, took a picture apart, chatted apart, and it was a good talk. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer.

I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family. Be a part of Kids Night when the Toronto Rock take on the Colorado Mammoth

at a special 5 p.m. start time on Saturday, March 9th at First Ontario Centre in Hamilton. The first 5,000 fans in attendance will get a Dan Dawson bobblehead courtesy of Backley Construction. Punch your ticket to Kids Night on Saturday, March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. There's a kitchen. Oh, good.

It's a completely permitted accessory dwelling unit. Someone could live in here comfortably if they can live in this much space, but legally. I could do it. Oh, sure. I think people we know could do it. Almost anyone could do it. Yeah. It'd be a relief.

I could live under the stairs. Sure, man. I mean, it's like when I go to hotels now, I used to be weird on the road, but now I'm like, this is great. None of my shit is here. Yeah. It's clean. I love it.

You do? I love a hotel. Yeah, man. I love a hotel, motel, whatever. I realized when I was like 26 that I had only stayed in one hotel. Ever? Yeah. Like you'd never been away from home?

No, I've been away from home plenty of times, but we were so stupid as like punk kids. We would like sleep in a car or whatever it was and then get a motel. Realizing as an adult that now a motel only costs like $40 some places. For a cheap one? Yeah. I guess so. For like Comfort Inn or La Quinta or something.

Yeah, but when we were kids on tour, that's $10 between the four of us, but instead we would just- Yeah, sweep in the car. Didn't you sweep at people's houses? Yes. Hopefully, that was the hope, is like begging on stage. Yeah. Hey, man.

Yeah. Please. Help us out. Yeah. And then you'd sweep on someone's basement floor with their parents upstairs, that kind of thing. Shivering. Yeah.

Dude, that was the best. If parents were upstairs and they'd make you breakfast in the morning. Oh, so they were nice. Supportive parents. Nice parents. The good parents. Yeah, I don't know, man. Even at this point, even if I have friends who have the capability,

like the money or the space to offer me, come stay at our house. You have your own bathroom. Same. I never want to do it. I'm going to stay at the hotel. How far is the hotel for the event? Nowadays, I'll get a hotel right by the airport, too. Oh, wow.

You don't want to have anything to do with that town. No. That way I can sleep as late as I possibly can before the flight. Get out right under the wire? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I don't do airport hotels, unless I have to. Well, I'm new. I'm new to all this hotel stuff.

I'll do the touring thing? Yeah. I usually go to... I'll stay by the venue. Yeah. What does the venue recommend near the place? Yeah, I've opened, you know, for comedians. They really got it down packed where they like know all the questions to ask. So you've opened for some dudes that take you with them and put you up?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's nice. That's the best. It is. and then like what like who have you opened for i opened for beau i opened for dimitri and rory and todd glass the nice fellas so now let's let's talk about these guys because i know all of them now somebody like beau i'm sure like you guys get up and you eat and you hang out a little bit right yeah yeah but when i was opening for him he couldn't talk't talk because he was about to tape his special

and he had lost his voice. Oh, wow. And so he was trying to keep his voice. And so we would go around town and I would have to talk for him everywhere. It's a little extra added opening. Open for him at the restaurant. Yeah.

And then after the show, we would talk and hang out. But before the show, he's like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. How many shows did you do with that guy? Like 14, maybe. Oh, that's a lot. Yeah. And who was the other, Bo and, oh, Rory? Yeah, Rory.

He'll probably have, he'll eat with you, right? Yeah, we hung out a lot. Yeah. Dimitri, probably not so much. Dimitri, no. We would just hang out in the green room. That was it. See you later, man. Yeah. Yeah, no breakfast, no socializing. No. Yeah. No, no. We would just hang out in the green room. That was it. See you later, man.

Yeah. Yeah. No breakfast. No socializing. No. Yeah. No. No.

I could see that. Yeah. I had the best night of my life opening for him, though. Oh, really? I walked out of the casino and I put some money in a slot machine and I won 1,200 bucks. 1,200 bucks? Yeah. That's sick.

By yourself. Yeah. Alone. You got to yell and scream by yourself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And Todd's got to be fun to open. By yourself. Yeah, alone. You had to yell and scream by yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Todd's got to be fun to open. Todd is fucking wild, man. He like stays up all night talking to people.

Really? Yeah, just like whoever wants to talk to him. You'd hang out in the lobby. I don't know if that's wild or sad. It's a fine line between like, man, that's kind of, yeah, sad a little. Yeah, well,

no, it seemed all right. No, no. I'd walk back to the hotel after like visiting friends of mine or something like that in the town

and he would just be sitting in the lobby like talking to whoever. At the hotel. Yeah. Oh, that's nice. Oh,

so he's just, not necessarily people at the show, but whoever's around. Yeah. Just socializing. Yeah. Lonely guy socializing. It was great.

Yeah. It was awesome so i appreciate you coming during the plague um thanks for having me well yeah but not many people willing to make the journey even if i guarantee them a clean environment i sprayed down that mic with the some alcohol that's not vinegar in that spray bottle it's alcohol cool and there's a hand sanitizer is available i've got rubber. I haven't really been leaving. So, I mean, other than to just do a little go to the store or whatever it is, but I'm really excited to get to do this. So, I don't care if I get sick or whatever.

Well, I don't want to get sick, but I don't think I'm going to get you sick. We're on top of it. Yeah, yeah. I'm going to have to figure out how to open the door. Like, you know, the thing that's weird is that it's like, it goes both ways. It's like, I'm just as like, I don't think I have it, but they make you kind of paranoid. Yeah. Maybe I do.

I don't know it. I keep like sucking in to see if I can like hold air in my lungs good. Oh, that thing. Yeah. Well, I've been running. I went running yesterday. Good. You've been skating?

Yeah, I've been skating. Yeah. Can't run.. You've been skating? Yeah, I've been skating. Yeah? I can't run. Don't got any ligaments in my knees. Really? Or else I would. I see these people running and I'm really jealous of it. But you can skate?

Yeah, yeah. It's like I can choose to do one or the other, but apparently running is really bad for my knees. Oh. So I can skate and I don't have to use both of my knees in the same kind of way because I'm pushing, you know. Right. One of them's just holding your foot on the board. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I noticed a little bit of skating in the special. Not much, a little bit. But it was like, oh, like one little thing that was fairly complicated. I'm like, oh, you know, I had to do that. Second nature kind of deal. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you can just do that. Well, yeah.

Didn't you land on two boards or something? Yeah. Well, yeah, hey, that's cool you noticed that. You're the only person to say that, so that's cool. Yeah, you can just do that. Well, yeah. Didn't you land on two boards or something? Yeah. Well, yeah. Hey, that's cool you noticed that. You're the only person to say that, so that's cool. What do you mean? Well, nobody's, I mean, I did land on two boards and it was something that we sat there for a second trying to do, thinking it would be a bigger moment.

And then, of course, it's like, why would that be a moment at all? It was kind of quick. Yeah, yeah. It was a quick moment. So you and I, like, I guess I should preface that you and I were in, you were in Sword of Trust with me. Yeah. You played one of the redneck young men. Yeah.

And, but also when we were shooting that in Alabama, you informed me that you were on Glow and I didn't realize that, but you were the fan of, of, Wolf, of. She Wolf? Sheila. Sheila. Gail. Sheila. Gail. Gail Rankin. Sheila. Sheila. Gail. Sheila. Gail. Gail Rankin. Yeah.

The genius. And you showed up at the wrestling match dressed as her. Yeah. That was you. Yeah. And so when I was on set, I, well, you know, and we had met before that, you know, years and years ago. Right.

But there was no way i was going to remember doing your horrible show no so so i didn't i on i didn't want to say hi because i i've looked like a fool if there was ever a way that you did remember that i'd have to make you force you to go through the rolodex of like the specific things in that show to even maybe power violence yeah i remember that because i sort of like i did not like doing those kind of shows and i don't know who talked me into it or who said it was a good thing to do i just remember that it was over amped there was something fucked up happening in there everybody was way too excited

or too worked up was not a good environment for a comedy show it should have been and i just knew that there was no way i wasn't going to get up there and ruin the vibe and also be mad about it no dude but do you remember what you did no okay you just made you were like i can do this like this kind of shit and you were like doing bits that you thought that the audience was going to like like making fun of them but it killed like and you went after zach alfinakis who did like his absurdist stuff and so you were you were like doing your more absurdist ideas you did something about a dolphin oh wow or dolphins or something and it was really funny it was great it worked out yeah and at the beginning of the show we set our friend on fire and so we were like we didn't Oh, wow. Or dolphins or something. That's exciting. And it was really funny. It was great. It worked out? Yeah.

And at the beginning of the show, we set our friend on fire. And so we were like, we didn't know what the hell we were doing. And looking back, it's like, I'd hate to have to follow someone getting set on fire. It's the worst, dude. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, you're not really hosting as much as you are just like creating a place where you can do your crazy shit.

And then like, oh, yeah, there's a guy who has to come do this. Right, here's a guy who makes a living doing it. I keep thinking about like, we got Zach Galvanakis and Marc Maron on the same show. How did that happen? 10 years ago. I kind of remember standing in the back with Zach thinking like, what are we doing?

Yeah. Why are we doing this still? Yeah, and it was like Zach hadn't done comedy in years. Oh, so he was trying to get out and get loose. And that was the first. Oh, yeah? But what was, it was called Power Violence, but what was the theme? What was, why was it?

Because all these shows back then, these produced shows, had to have some grabby angle. A lot of them did. What was it exactly? Because, I mean, the title's kind of heavy. Right, Power Violence was like a genre of music that we liked, me and my friends, which is like a grindcore, metalcore, blast beat. Oh, right, right, right. Is that the stuff out of Sweden?

Yeah, I mean, sort of like black metal, yeah. Black metal, but less aesthetically. Dark? Dark, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Just more like but less aesthetically. Dark? Dark, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Just more like silly, I guess. Yeah. So we called the show that.

I don't know why. And we didn't know how to do comedy. The truth was that I started doing that show because I had gotten some money from my mom who died. And she was like, don't spend it on rent. So I was like, oh, you can rent a theater. That I think is okay. Right. She was more like, put this towards your dream.

Right, yeah, yeah. Right. So I rented that little black box, and then we started just like, we were already in a band playing around town, and it was like- What was the name of the band? We were called Tooks.

Tooks? Yeah. T-O-O? K-S, yeah. Which was like, it was during the kind of garage explosion, like in the 2007 era. Who came out of that explosion, just to give me some context? Ty Siegel and all those guys. But they were just miles cooler than us.

And we were just idiots on stage and talked too much and nobody liked us. We were annoying to everybody. And so when we started that show, I had the band guys in the show with me, and then we would bring up stand-up comedians, because I didn't realize that stand-up comedians would just do any show. You could get huge names to do anything. And then we sort of stopped playing music and just would, like, fuck around and do whatever we could to get laughs.

And then eventually kind of evolved into doing more of a focused show, stand-up show. But previous to that, you didn't do comedy. No, I took classes at UCB and I wanted really badly to be a comedian. I would try every four months to do stand-up. But wait, so the dream was music. It was music for my whole childhood, and then I moved out here thinking I could get into acting and writing. Well, let's go back, because, I mean, I watched a special.

It was called The Golden One. Yeah. And it's pretty emotionally raw, and I'm, like, sort of a specialist of emotionally raw at times. But, like, there are moments there where it's like not particularly comfortably raw. Like there's moments during the special where I'm like, he doesn't really have a handle on this yet. He has no closure at all on this.

And this is kind of hard to watch. But there are good parts too. And I'm not saying that's a bad part. I'm just saying it's a slightly courageous kind of insane part. What are you laughing at? Is it hurting you? No, it's absolutely true. It's like, you know, like, how did he pitch this?

I don't know, man. I mean, yeah. But, I mean, the idea of sort of getting closure, you know, I mean, the thrust of the show is about your mom's death. And then, you know, her being an entertainer and playing at this place as a regular performer. And you going back to that place, sort of a full circle thing to your hometown. I guess that's what it is. And then this was an exercise in getting that closure.

Yeah. That you don't have it, but maybe this will do it. Right. And I'll show everybody this painful attempt to display all of my talents in the rawest way possible in front of friends and family at this weird joint. Now, where is that place? Where did you grow up? I grew up in a place called Gulf Shores, Alabama. And the Floribama is, you know, it's like on an island in Alabama called Pleasure Island.

And then the Floribama is right off of that island still in a piece of alabama called perdido key on the line of florida and alabama gold shore alabama is by the it's on the water yeah and it's next to florida it's like that that corner there yeah like what's the closest town in florida pensacola. Oh. Yeah. So this is like, you know, this is an observation I had, you know, watching. It was,

you know, a lot of, a lot of Florida is the South. Yeah. You know, most of it, probably.

And, but there's this moment where I realized when you were performing at this place and I saw some of the people in the audience that if you don't come

from the South, you know, you just assume that, you know, all the people that look a certain way act a certain way. But you're definitely not of that ilk and you're a sensitive guy who kind of went the way of sort of emo and goth and were different and a slightly fragile sort. And when I watch you performing in this environment, there's part of me that's sort of like you know man that's gotta suck but but but then i realized like but you're from there and they know you it like they whatever they're going to judge you as is is you're the overriding thing is that you're still one of their own yeah right yeah man it was like i was freaked

out by that because that you know like i i wanted to make sure that the because i'm like an la new york kind of comedian i love doing shows out here and i'm super progressive and all the shit i like has nothing to do with the south and so going home i was like god damn it i gotta do it here like these people didn't have to well Well, I didn't have to. That was the pitch? That was kind of the idea, yeah. So I went around, like I went to Birmingham and other places to test out to make sure that it would work and found that they liked it more than a lot of the shit. They liked more than people in L.A. and New York.

I think a lot of times they're sort of excited to see professionals. Yeah. Yeah, dude. You know, like certain rooms that kind of get the rotation of the local cats. You know, just to see somebody who's got some chops. Yeah. It's good. But also, but I realize, though, I understand that, but you are still genetically and emotionally from that place, right?

Right, yeah. And in what you were talking about in the special about being the kind of kid you were, like, you know, emo, goth, what, you know, just arty kid, you were doing that there. So all those fucking rednecks or whoever, you still had to go to school with them and they had to deal with you and you dealt with them and they dealt with you. And that happens everywhere.

Yeah. So, like, you weren't an outsider. There's this idea that anybody that goes to the South, if they're not from the South, is an outsider. And that, I think, is kind of true. But you aren't, even though you're a weirdo. Yeah. The South has plenty of weirdos. Totally.

And even more weirdos because they don't have the access in the same way that the big cities do. So, like, they get the half version of something. The, like, half evolved version of the cool band or, like, the band that doesn't look in the way that they're supposed to look. Right. So, they become even stranger than the weirdos in the big city. Right. Because they're trying to do something. It's almost like they're, you know, the blob.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. The blob kind of makes a weird kind of creepy facsimile of the person it absorbs. Yeah, man. So, like, when I was in my bands, like, we never got access.

This is something I always noticed is, like, we never had access in the South to the pants of the time. Come on. So, like, there would be guys wearing guys wearing like skinny jeans or whatever it was, but we didn't have skinny jeans. So we would still be wearing like these chunky looking whatever pants. Levi 505s. Yeah, Levi 505s. But with the rest, the top half looked the right way.

Right. But the bottom half, we looked like fools. Right. It didn't match the. No. Well, I mean, that was the thing though. I i mean that was sort of like i didn't really but that was always a thing even in the original wave of punks you know they had to get the record sent to them some cat you know who owned a record store had if i can be the channel to get the shit yeah you had to get

people to send you the clothes from new york Someone had to bring them down there. Right. But the skinny jean things, I thought most people, most guys resolved by buying girl ones. Right, that's what I would do. Right. Go to Target and get girl pants. Yeah, the stretchy pants. Yeah.

Yeah. That's what I would do. And then, yeah, I mean, I just watched like a bad documentary on the replacements, you know, and just how that weird theme of local bands, you know, having like there's the cover band, there's the ones that are the rock band, but then there's the art rock people that, and they're always going to be dressing in dresses and

doing weird shit, but it's almost like a, it's like a staple, you know, it repeats itself over generations in one form or another. There's always going to be that band. Yeah. And you were them? I'd say we were, we were playing with them we weren't them necessarily we were like we were we were pretty okay we were fine we didn't seem to ever fit completely in with anybody but it was also it we would if when we would go out of town when we would go would go to Nashville or somewhere cool to play a show, then we would become that band.

But in our scene, we were okay. It was just like, but also in our scene, there was not enough bands to even make like a proper scene. In Gulf Shore? Yeah, in Gulf. Well, Pensacola is like where we would end up playing. That was like really our scene. I have no sense of Pensacola. I have no sense of what that's like.

It's like. I mean, I've been to Tallahassee. It's similar to Tallahassee, except it's on the water. Uh-huh. Oh, so there's more of that beach Yahoo shit. Yeah. Like, even your brother, like, there's a moment there where you're seeing your family and your cousin, you know, in these documentary moments where, you know, when you're talking

to your cousin, you know, about your mom's death, you know's death, he looks like a fucking Southern bro. But then all of a sudden, he's just all soft and breaking down. Well, yeah, man. He's staying home. We all left. My brother lives on a school bus and drives around with his family. My other cousin lives in Denver. He stayed there.

So he's really dealing with all of the family hell. Yeah. Well, yeah, your brother, there's a moment where you're like, what's this guy about? And you're like, of course he's acting. He's just a good guy, kind of like free spirit dude. Yeah. Can still play some guitar. Big time.

Yeah. But what is the story? So he's your older brother and there's just two of you? Yeah, he's my older brother from a different dad um oh really yeah so his dad uh and my mom were you know successful drug smugglers i guess is the story and then his dad went to prison and uh then when my mom met my dad. They had me five, six years later. Yeah. But your mom has a twin sister. Yeah.

And they were music act. Yeah, Sin Twister. Sin Twister. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. But just the sort of talk of like, you know, if you grew up in the world of like music in a local scene or art in a local scene, this story is familiar. We almost had a record deal.

Why didn't we record it? There was a time where we were kind of hot. Yeah. And you kind of focus a lot on that. I do, man. And they came close and closer than I thought when I went back home talking to my aunt. Oh, yeah, about the record deal, the Virgin record deal? Yeah.

But, like, okay, so they're doing this act after the drug-dealing husband goes to jail. She marries your dad who's kind of like, you know, that he's come back into your life and you get to see that guy. He doesn't quite fit in with all. He must have really turned his life around somehow. Oh, yeah. Like, you know, like he's like, I don't know. It's just almost, he's a sober guy.

Yeah. But so your mom and he were married for how long? Nine, 10, nine or 10 years. So they really wrote it out. Yeah. But was it like, because your mom was a drinking and drug addicted person. Yeah. But she somehow managed.

She sort of managed. It like fell apart when I was about eight. My dad jokingly said the other day that I had about six good years. Oh, really? Yeah. It really was, she didn't manage. I mean, maybe until I was eight or nine. It was like, that's when everything, and with my dad too, that's where everything kind of really started to visibly be like, if there's like wine bottles in the house, I have to break them.

Like it was chaos. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but like, was that during the time where she was, was her sister fucked up too? Yeah. Everyone was fucked up. Yeah. Her sister got sober first oh so did the the getting out of control coincide with the the musical dream sort of fading or

no really the first there's like been a lot there was a lot of hiccups like they were most like most promise was in the late 70s and your uncle was playing bass or guitar oh my uncle no who was in the band oh that guy ricky whitley yeah he's not my uncle he's just some swamp man oh who was always was always sort of in the band now he lives on a swamp he's like completely probably doesn't know corona is happening right now yeah but uh i just got him back there to play the show with me you go went and found him uh well he he sent me that VHS tape of my mom and him playing. So that was sort of what kicked all this off. Oh, the swamp man.

Yeah. See, that's something that a lot of us don't know what you're talking about. Swamp people. Right. There are swamp people in Alabama? Oh, yeah, man. There's swamp people, dude, for sure. Do they live, like, is the swamp, like, is there, like, a road where you're like, well, you would take that road and then you're.

You want to go see some swamp houses? Some true detective shit? Like, let's go, man. That's where they are? Yeah. And they're in New Orleans, too, or in Louisiana coast? Yeah. But it has to have some density.

So the, you know, foliage you'd be swampy, right? Yeah. We have all that where I'm from. It was like every type of body of water you could ever dream of. Oh, wow. Yeah. People who you can tell the type of person they are just by like, oh, he's wearing those rubber boots.

So he's like a swamp guy. Okay. So the swamp guy sent you the video. Well, that was nice. Out of nowhere? Yeah. Huh. Out of nowhere video. Well, that was nice. Out of nowhere? Yeah. Huh. Out of nowhere.

I wonder what that was about. I don't know. He just sent it to me. He found it and felt compelled to send it to me. Is that the only existing video? That I have, yeah. That exists, yeah. That I know of.

I'm sure there's other ones. We used to have a lot of tapes, but Hurricane Katrina kind of wiped a lot of them away. Oh, really? Yeah. Wow, that's so wild. And that was the one that kind of triggered it. Okay, so what are the hiccups? The hiccups are, they had a lot of promise. They were in Jamaica. The 70s.

Yeah, in the 70s, living in Jamaica, meeting every famous, David Bowie, Bob Marley, all the people. Keith Richards, maybe, was down there? Yeah, I'm sure. Whoever came down there, they were the girls. They would, like, go sing back up and just, like, fun to hang out with. Oh, really? So there were these white girls living in Jamaica who sang? Yeah, yeah. And they were identical twins, and they were, like, beautiful and just, like, loved the party.

So some pretty big rock acts have some pretty serious memories. Totally. Dude. Dude, you remember the twins? like love the party some pretty big rock acts have some pretty serious memories totally have you dude do you remember the twins do i remember the twins well that's when i realized going home it's like all of these innocent stories that i would hear like oh yeah your mom my mom would always tell me i spent the night with david bowie you know and i remember as a kid thinking she's spent the night like walking on the beach with David Bowie. That's nice. They had a sweep over.

Yeah. And now I'm like, oh, damn it. David Bowie is fucking my mom. They're worse things, dude. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, so that was happening. And then my mom met her husband, my brother's dad, and then they got into smuggling drugs back and forth from Jamaica.

From Jamaica? Yeah, yeah. Weed? Yeah. So then he got caught that that was like that became the focus and they had a kid who had who died in a car accident too at that time so like it just was like oh that's the thing that we yeah it's not i don't think you really delineate that stuff in the special in the the documentary. Like, you know, you talk to your aunt

about the kid your mom lost, but, you know, I guess it was your brother, your half-brother anyway. Yeah. But it happened long before you. Right, yeah. Huh. Yeah, so he died.

Her husband got arrested. That was like a big hiccup in the music thing, you know what I mean? Yeah. And then before he went into prison they had my brother my when he went to prison my mom moved back to alabama yeah where my aunt had already moved back yeah then they had the second wind of sin twister okay let's focus let's record all these songs they recorded yeah you know so many good songs in this great studio called airwave studio in Birmingham. And, uh, and so that was like the moment for them to like, they might actually do it this time.

That was the mid eighties. Yeah. And then, um, it just didn't really happen again. And then this reminds me of your monologue. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, yeah. So, and then, yeah, then my aunt moved down to Gulf Shores. Then my dad left. Mom followed to Gulf Shores. Oh, so where were you guys? We were in Birmingham until I was a little kid, you know, just until I was like seven or eight. Really? Right when we shot that shit?

Yeah, yeah. You lived there. So, but like the scene at home though, like, I mean, what, yelling and screaming and throwing shit and like? No, it was just mystery, constant. Like, I don't know who's going to come home.

I was, luckily had an older brother who was there, you know. It was just, there was no classic movie drunkness. It was like nodding out, kind of like fucked up. You know, my mom's like an ex-junkie, or she was a junkie until she died, I guess you could say. What, doing the dope?

Yeah, so like, it wasn't like a... Oh, right, right. So it was more, you know, is she alive? Go, you know, shake her. It was like, oh, if she stops drinking, she'll have a seizure that kind of thing yeah so it wasn't like uh as energetic as right right there's no Sid and Nancy shit going on your dad looks like kind of a control freak dude well yes I mean and my dad was like until 10 years ago it was like this backwards hat kind of cut off jean shorts guy.

Oh, really? And then he met a new, his wife, and they've like very much, you know, now he's obsessed with fitness and kind of like yoga. Golf being. But he's a sober dude, like, you know, real deal does the thing. Does it. He's a sober guy. Fully does it. Runs meetings and all that stuff.

Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. that runs meetings and all that stuff. Right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it was sort of wild that, like, you know,

because a lot of the jokes in the show, you know, were, you know, your kind of, your slightly dark jokes. Some of them were about the family, but it was more the songs, a lot of them, and some of the interstitial stuff that really kind of told the story of where you come from, right? Yeah. Yeah. So what, you didn't end up having a fucking drinking problem?

No, no I had- Your brother either? No, we were like, my brother was, he got five more good years than I did. So he, we both had like a lot of hate in us, like for alcohol and drugs. Right, right, that's the other way to go. We just like, I was this kid who just fucking hated it and like hated it and felt completely uncomfortable and pissed off anytime like every

time you know turning 13 when i'd see like my friends were starting to get fucked up yeah just like fucking pissed but trying to be cool about it and saying i didn't care right and that lasted until i was in my mid-20s probably. Right. Just this like rage about it. And then my brother was a little bit more chill, but a really similar kind of way. Yeah. What's the timeline on? Because she died not that long ago, right? She died 11 years ago.

Oh, that's 11 years ago? Yeah. Yeah. So I was 19 or 20. And you were still at home? No, I had just moved to la okay so your dad leaves and you're how old i was nine oh so you officially left when i was you had like 10 years just being down there with your mother well yeah so then my dad came back when i was in high school my when my dad left my mom was in and out of rehab,

and she would get in trouble and be like on, what's it called? Probation. Probation, yeah. So it's a real fucking mess. Yeah, and then my dad had gotten sober. He was living in a halfway house and doing all that, and kind of that life. He had lost his law license and was-

He was a lawyer? Yeah. And he came back to live in Alabama after visiting one time and seeing the kind of shit show. The squalor? Yeah. Yeah. And he stepped up? He for sure stepped up, yeah.

It was really weird. Yeah. And he stepped up? of them and work you know he worked as an assistant at a title company and just figure out how to help them in whatever way i can but they've got it so it was still like we didn't have any real rules or anything but now we had like a consistent place yeah and you had your dad for whatever that was worth yeah yeah and he's always been like dude anytime i'd love to talk to you and tell you what happened and what went down and i waited until just recently for him to tell me. Before the special? Yeah, we sort of like, about two years ago, he was driving me to the airport and he like kind of laid it all out. Yeah?

Just his whole fucked up shit. Was it surprising? No, I mean, once you hear it from him, he was like, I didn't expect to live this long right that's his that was his idea he was like I the shit I grew up liking was all these people this free love and and then my age for some reason everything is synthetic and like all the there was no more just people smoking weed and having sex with each other it was like shooting heroin and getting aids and like it was a different thing, but I still, my parents never hugged me

and I just wanted to die. You know what I mean? So he was like, I wanted to live fast and leave a good looking corpse. And then I had a family. And like, so I don't, you know, I don't think it's a good thing, but I guess I get it.

Yeah. Yeah. But like the one thing I noticed about the whole thing, so we'll get to it. So by the time you leave to come out here, I mean, your mother's kind of lost to you anyways. Yeah. No, I watched my mom die like 100 times. 100 times so it was when she actually did die it was it was a really hard and painful but it was sometimes in a way it was like a relief as terrible as that sounds yeah it's like uh she's actually gone yeah and when did you know because another part of the the sort of story is

that from the special is that like your aunt then your mom's twin sister stopped talking to you yeah for no no i mean all kinds of reasons when my mom was dying it was absolute chaos with um there was like drugs and money stuff and a safe with like a ring in it and oh yeah all kinds of shit like that and my aunt really was like going through hell dealing with her sister dying. And then she was doing some fucked up stuff, some bad stuff too. Me and my brother who were watching our mom die. Ultimately, like I went to the funeral

and I was like, I'm never gonna talk to any of these people again oh really yeah it was a it was a bad brought out the worst in everybody yeah everybody i went i mean i went to the funeral and they didn't like you know like they had decided that they didn't really want anything to do with me a long time before that i think because i moved in with my dad yeah so oh so there's just like this strain yeah when when uh at the funeral they had a slideshow of of my mom and her first son casey and like their life together yeah and then a slideshow of my mom and my brother and then they didn't have anything of me really yeah and so i was like fucking I'm out of here. This is it. And I left.

Like, just bailed. Went back to California and never looked back. So who called you to tell you your mom died? Your dad? My brother. Oh. Well, he said, we need to go home. You need to come home. Your mom has got a couple more days.

And she was keeping it a secret that she was dying. What was she dying of uh cirrhosis and hep c and all the things oh yeah all the things that that life yeah the gifts of that life yeah the gifts the satanic souvenirs right of a life embracing hell. And it's like, dude, at that time, every one of my friends down there, too, like each one of our parents were just. Dropping? Dropping in the same kind of way. Really?

Drugs or alcohol, yeah. Whatever. It's just like a hard living kind of place down there. So when you came out here, it seems like, I don't know, it's not that specific, but it seems like before she died or whatever was going down there, you just needed to get out of there. Yeah, man. There was no way I was going to stay down there. And you had a vague sense of being an actor or being a musician?

I met a guy. I had stopped doing music because i had taken it so seriously throughout my whole childhood and never had like a life outside of a band yeah and so i'd stopped doing it and i was like i don't want to do this anymore i had met my my friend and co-director clay who i grew up with down there uh he had gotten a scholarship into savannah college of Art and Design for a short little sketch thing we had made. I hear that's a good school. Yeah, it's a great school. And then I was like, well, maybe I could do something like that, but I couldn't go to some fancy school. And then I met a guy in Florida who worked at a special effects company

in LA. And I was talking to him about it, like, could I want to move, maybe I can move to LA. And he was like, dude, give me a call when you, you you know and I'll hook you up with a job as a PA so I was like great that's what I'm doing and that became my plan and then moved out here right after high school and that guy never answered the phone it was like the rudest awakening immediately I've heard so many I've heard so many stories of the people that all it took is one guy. They don't know the guy that well, but they're like, I'm going. This one guy, who I don't know. Didn't know him at all.

Said, come on out, and I'll set you up. Yeah, man. And I wonder how many times I've done that to people now. I try to only offer things that I can handle, that I can really do. Yeah. You know what I mean? So, all right, so you come out here.

But that kid that co-directed the special with you, Clay, is his name? Yeah. And he was part of Power Violence as well? Yeah. So you guys have been working together for a long time. Yeah, since we were 10, really. 10? He was in every band with me, too.

Oh, really? Yeah. And he's out here? Yeah. What's he doing? He's just making stuff you know writing directing little things you know me and him are hopefully going to make more stuff you know if they let us sounds like you should make a real script about the family yeah yeah i want to

i'm trying that's what we're trying right now. Gothic. If anybody's listening. Indie movie. Yeah. Because I think that what's really compelling about it, you know, drugs and whatnot, but in family tension, but it all sort of focuses around a very specific period in music where, you know, they were kind of doing a Stevie Nicks trip. Yeah. You know, like a dual Stevie Nicks trip. Yeah. They love, I mean mean and i found all those

tapes like there's at one point when my man is talking about casey like we're at the kitchen and looking about the kid that died yeah two inch tape oh yeah that big analog tape yeah and she was saying those were all ruined by katrina and i got them all digitized and the guy was like these are two inch tape you can't ruin these like they're indestructible so I was listening through shit all the way back

to like 75 oh you have it digitized all of it yeah and I'm getting a bunch of the songs remixed and mastered

because it's like some of them are isolated recording tracks yeah but there's like recordings of them fucking around

in a bar in Aspen doing like a cover of whatever Fleetwood Mac song. Oh, really? Yeah, it's really cool. And then you can hear them talking to each other in between songs and entertaining the crowd. No kidding.

Yeah. That must be nice. It's really cool. Well, that was sort of the interesting thing about retrieving this past. But okay, we can get back around to that. So how did you land out here? What the fuck, what'd you end up doing?

I got a job at a skate shop in Santa Monica, active skate shop on the third street promenade. And you're a good skater. I'm okay. Not by California standards. Right.

Alabama standards. I'm good because the ground isn't even good enough to push around on. Yeah. Once you get out here, it's like, there's real good skaters. Right. And Alabama standards. I'm good because the ground isn't even good enough to push around on. Yeah. But once you get out here, it's like there's real good skaters. Yeah. But you can hold your own.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I was doing that. Enough to be at a shop. Yeah. Enough to be the guy behind the counter at the skate shop. But also probably the non-intimidating guy.

Yeah. Especially back then, I'd be like, hi guys, y'all want to? Yeah. Yeah. But they're kids, right? Yeah. And the last thing they need is some alpha skateboard jock totally you know you're just like you could do a few tricks and be probably you're probably the ones that you still more skateboards like eight-year-olds

than anybody totally they really connect with me nobody has ever been intimidated by me in their whole life so yeah i was just doing that and then i looked up on myspace oh yeah i was like uh looked up people i was like is anybody out here from the south uh trying to be an actor and then some people were like oh yeah i'm from wherever and here's what you got to do and uh i went to an acting class and then i was like what else i need to do and then they were like acting class some some like uh scam studio i'm sure it's some type of pyramid scheme and they're like I need to do? And then they were like, Which acting class? Some like scam studio. Oh, really? I'm sure it's some type of pyramid scheme.

And they were like, you need to get a headshot. And I remember not knowing what headshot was and saying, what is a headshot? Oh, wow. And so they, you know. It was a scam studio?

You know, one of those things where they're like, we'll introduce you to an agent. Oh, right. Well, don't they all do that? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. So how'd that work?

Did you do some acting lessons? I did all of it. Okay. And then I got into real serious stuff and took it really seriously. It was like growing up loved movies and Gus Van Sant and shit like that. My own Private Idaho is probably my favorite movie still, but especially back then. And I realized that like everybody out here who was working in all these acting classes on shows like Gossip Girl or whatever it was, they had like never seen a movie in their life. They were just like really good looking and people cast them and stuff.

And I just became super bitter about it. Oh yeah, prematurely bitter? Yeah. Without even getting in the game. Oh, yeah, prematurely bitter? Yeah. Without even getting in the game. No, not at all. Like, I'm fucked. Look at these idiots. I'm trying really hard and these people are actually doing it

and they don't know anything about it or care about it. And so luckily that shifted into me doing, you know, I was doing the band but then I started doing stand-up. Yeah. Where were you doing the stand-up? I started just like in all stand-up. Yeah. Where were you doing the stand-up? I started just like in all the alt rooms. Right.

And still, you know, pretty much just like east side rooms, you know. Yeah. We did some shows together. Sure, I know. You never, you missed, I remember one time thinking, okay, I have a joke that I think Mark might like. And then you walked out right when I got on stage. I'm sorry, dude. Where was that? It wasn't Meltdown, but it was at Meltdown.

Oh, right. Like Andy Kindler's show or something? Something like that, yeah. You were with your niece, I think? Oh, when Eden was in town. That one time. Oh, yeah. Got her in there.

Yeah. Yeah, she didn't seem to care much. Yeah, I didn't know if I could keep her there. Like, I took off, huh? Well, no. I mean, I was like, oh, you were sitting in the crowd, which was kind of, like, odd. Yeah. And then you stood up and left right after whatever.

Oh, sorry, buddy. I like to sit in the crowd sometimes. I'll sit in the crowd when my opener's on at a theater or something. That's cool. Get the feel. Yeah. What are people experiencing? Yeah.

How does this feel for the people? Yeah, that's good. But so,. Yeah. What are people experiencing? Yeah. How does this feel for the people? Yeah, that's good. But so were you making a living doing comedy? No, I didn't make a living doing comedy until three months ago. Yeah. Dude, the brokest of anybody I've ever known until like three months ago. Me and my buddy Clay were always like, dude, how do people live?

Yeah. Because for me it's like unemployment and some crazy job or whatever, you know? Yeah, no, it wasn't until recent that I. Yeah, it's because it is sort of interesting, like, you know, because watching the thing, the special, because I remember I saw like a trailer for it or something. But then I watched the special and I'm like, man, he's like, he can't decide what he wants to do.

And we're all watching the confusion. He's pretty good at a lot of things. He's not willing to let anything go. And he's protecting himself from failing at any one thing by doing many things pretty well yeah that's a good that's a good way to put it i don't know if i would put that on the blurb no yeah well no but the thing is like i related to it i'm not trying to be negative i understand putting stuff out in the world that, in retrospect, was really probably too raw for me to know how it would land. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?

Well, it comes from complete desperation for me. Does it? For me, yeah. Desperation for what, though? Anything. It was desperate to connect again. Right, connect. Okay, that's different.

That's different than, but that's not desperation for money. Oh, yeah, no. It's a desperation that, you know, can come through in creativity where, you know, you need to be seen by whoever. You know, like, you know, this is me. Right. I mean, it's in a way desperate to be seen, but like for me, it was like getting that tape. Like my agents had, my comedy agents had just fired me right, right before the, my, that guy, Ricky Whitley sent me that tape.

And I was like, really? Yeah. The absolute, like. They fired you because they couldn't get you work or. Yeah. I was doing the golden one show, but there was no music in it yet. Oh. And people just kind of. So it started as a one person show kind of deal. Yeah. your work or yeah i was doing the golden one show but there was no music in it yet oh and uh people

just kind of so it started as a one-person show kind of yeah about your your the death of your mom and and sort of yeah um less about the parallels of our failures oh right oh okay yeah that see that that that theme this sort of like we both were failing i mean the thing was like you know you're young right but she was young too like and so i kept when she was kind of i kept thinking oh in that video she's my age right right right and and she had already it had already all happened and now she's at this bar she's the house band yeah she's kind of done now right and i kept going i've just been like let go and and is this what am i gonna fucking do right right right and she called me the fucking golden one yeah and like all the time

and uh so yeah so that's kind of how that worked and then i had recorded a bunch of music i was like maybe if i record all these songs that i wrote about, you know, my mom or whatever it is, breakups, I'll feel this connection and this like creativity. And so I recorded all these demos with a friend of mine and then I listened back to all these lyrics and I was like, this is fucking embarrassing. I'm never going to show anybody these songs. And you showed everybody. Well, I just changed all the lyrics kind of to make them more embarrassing. Oh, okay. Just taking, removing metaphor. Oh, to make them more embarrassing. Oh, okay. Just taking, removing metaphor.

Oh, to make them funnier? Yeah. Right. Just like if I had a song about my mom drinking herself to death, just saying, my mom drank herself to death. Right. Instead of. Or I party till I died.

Yeah, yeah. Partied to death. Partied to death. Which was one of my first jokes, like saying my mom partied to death. like saying my mom partied to death and and like so yeah man it was just like it was just all out of this like like fluster of like desperation to just like connect creatively put this thing together yeah i mean i think it was good it was just like because i'm sort of uh uh sensitive to my own discomfort around performing uncomfortable things because I've always done it. Yeah.

It's always been the way I start. You know, like I'm going to put this out there. And I know people are laughing because they're uncomfortable. They're not laughing because like I have complete control of this joke. You know, they're laughing because sort of like, oh, man. Yeah. You know, and that's a type of laughter. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's a type of laughter. Yeah. Yeah. But it seems to me that doing the songs and telling the jokes around this stuff, I don't know why you, like, was there a discussion about putting the song, about having a hard time getting a boner? Were you like, do I put this in?

Is this really necessary? I just feel like it's nice to have a break from the death to talk about erectile dysfunction. Yeah, like, hey, let's lighten things up a little bit. Yeah. Nobody's talking about it. Not enough people are talking. Not enough people are being honest about it. Sometimes there's a certain type of person, guy, who will come up to me and I'm like, oh, this person lost his mom to alcohol. Right. And then there's a type of guy who's like, he's going will come up to me and i'm like oh this person lost his mom to alcohol right and then there's a type of guy who's like he's gonna come talk to me i felt like he can't get a boner look i mean back when i was younger i understood exactly i understood the

performance anxiety part of it but like you just have to you're getting better with that yeah you just have to shift and say what you want and find someone who's patient. Right, patience, confidence, patience. Yeah, yeah, just sort of like, you know, shut up, it's happening. Stay with me. But it seems to me that most of the closure that you got was really, it really seemed in the conversations with your cousin and your aunt was like really where the shit landed.

Because you, like for some reason throughout a lot of that documentary footage, you didn't really, like I could feel you not being able to get to your emotions around it. You would lock down, like with your old man and shit. Yeah. You're locked down. I mean, you're social and you can be funny, but you couldn't let go. No, and it's just, and I'm in therapy and all that stuff. It's just been such a part of my life forever

and I don't know necessarily how to access my anger and that stuff over, no, just like my, my being fucked, you know, like in my childhood and my dad bailing, my mom, nobody taking care of me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know how to access the anger about it at all. So talking to them, you know, the things that I get emotional about are usually not even involving them. It's like, so yeah, I didn't emote in the way that I wanted to.

But then there is also more, I didn't also want it to feel like the apology tour, you know, of me like going around and talking to those, everybody and trying to get them to say I'm sorry or whatever. My aunt and my dad. I didn't feel that at all. and trying to get them to say I'm sorry or whatever. My aunt and my dad. Well, no, I didn't feel that at all. What I felt was, like, you know, was your cousin's empathy. You know, clearly, you know, there's this back story about, you know,

them all turning on you, you know, and then, you know, you coming back and doing this, that there was a real moment there where, you know, he seemed to feel bad. Yeah. And, you know, and that moment was pretty amazing, right? Yeah. He feels a lot of guilt. He was there for me when my mom was dying.

The cousins were there, him and my other cousins and my brother. But he feels a lot of guilt about my childhood and not being there. My brother and him and my cousin my other cousin jenny they all had a car and could drive away and just kind of often i was stuck and my cousin wilkes feels a lot of and they all do they and that was a whole that's a conversation we've since had together the four of us but it's like what leaving They feel bad, like leaving me just kind of as a kid there to kind of break the bottles or whatever it is when they could drive off and go fuck around.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You're dealing with the sad part of partying. Yeah. And they're going to go have a good time. They're going to go have sex. Yeah, but when you regroup with your aunt, like, you know, how is that? I mean, she seemed a little withholding. Yeah.

But she was. But willing. And she's become less withholding now. It's like personal for her to. She was very willing and happy to talk to me. Right. And that whole moment of you seeing your mom and her because they're twins.

Yeah. Yeah, and I realized kind of it's just you get older and I just can't remember sometimes why I'm so angry. Yeah, right. And I think she might not be able to articulate it, but she feels a lot of guilt and uh-huh about how everything went down and uh you know she she's still dealing with it she says she dreams about my mom every night you know right she uh that was her entire identity was my mom like her and my mom together well yeah

twins it's rough man yeah especially when you Especially when you're, like, creative together. And they're identical? Yeah. And so I just, I did become, I started to have a lot of sympathy for her. And she's sober, too? Yeah. Well, that's the thing about your old man is, like, you know, he seems, you know, legitimately kind of, like, you know, born-again sober dude. Like, not, I mean, like, born-again dude like not i mean like born again like

sober not christian or anything and like he knows how to do the work and process the shit yeah and he's willing to do it but it's still going to have that kind of practicality element he's willing to take responsibility right you know but he's really kind of he has done the work he has the language yeah but it looks like he's done the work he's pretty solid he's done all he can do he can't live in the past or or in shame anymore because he's recovered right yeah that's totally what it is he doesn't feel like this wake up every night guilty kind of thing because yeah because you let it go yeah yeah which is part of it well have you ever done the alan on thing or when i was a kid i would yeah with my mom i would uh that was part of

like a team yeah mandated sort of thing that i would have to go and be a part of but then i i haven't really been that big of a part of that since I was a child. How about that ACOA? No, I haven't done any of that. There's some good fucking, I hear there's some pretty solid ACOA shit going on. I know a couple cats who do that, you know, who come from like the serious alcoholism families. And that's like a kind of emotionally grad level kind of shit. That's cool. Yeah, because it's a specific thing.

I don't know. I mean, it just seems like contextualizing is the difficult thing. Like if you're going to therapy, right, and you're working out this stuff and you're trying to access the grief, I mean, it would seem to me that being that what you're experiencing is, you know, highly common for people who were brought up or who grew up in that shit. Yeah. You know what I mean? And being part of some group mind around it would probably enable maybe some more access.

Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I should do stuff like that. Yeah, maybe once more access. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. I should do stuff like that. Yeah, maybe once a week or something. Once or four times a week. Well, I mean, I'll tell you who I know. Okay. So now, how is this special being received, dude?

People have been nice on the internet. Swedish people. That in and of itself is really rare. Yeah. People have been cool i do i i didn't know but i do a bill hicks joke so people have been really angry about that which one about jesus on the cross and that's right that's a lenny bruce joke oh it's a lenny well people have been tweeting that it's a i know bill did his version everyone does their version okay yeah like thank you because people have been tagging you in all these posts.

They go, Mark Maron, Whitmer Thomas steals Bill Hicks' joke. They're telling me that you did it? Yeah, yeah. And they tag Joe Rogan, too. So that's been most of the hatred. Look, man, I did a thing. I accidentally think I did or thought I did a Bill Hicks line on Conan many years ago, and it plagued me forever. But it turns out a lot of people were doing that joke.

Yeah. But your joke is exactly what? What was it? It's my mom. My aunt called me one year on my mom's death day, which is a weird day to remember somebody. But we're taught to remember things that way. When Jesus comes back, I feel like he'll be like, first order of of business let's remove all their memorabilia from the worst day of my life yeah right right right right it was certainly around when lenny was around but i get it yeah

so yeah dealing with a little of that dealing with that but other than that everybody on online has been really cool people have said nice things and i didn't necessarily think that people would connect in the kind of way you know so many people have dealt with the same kind of shit said nice things and I didn't necessarily think that people would connect in the kind of way you know so many people have dealt with the same kind of shit

right right and so it's it's been cool and it's been nice you know people have been nice to me about it

and it's getting you more work or I don't know yet because right now we're stuck at home but oh that's right I hope so

yeah you know how long has the special been out uh since late February mhm so I hope so. Forgotten for a minute, yeah. How long has the special been out? Since late February. Mm-hmm. So I hope it does.

I had to cancel a tour. Right, of course. Now, did it come along with, like, are you developing for HBO now? No. They just gave you the special? No, yeah. How it happened is they saw this version that I was doing before I had music, and they were like, I'm not too interested in that then uh i was doing it uh with music bo burnham saw that and then

a24 got involved uh and then we pitched it to hbo this idea and like of me going home and kind of doing it there and then they were like cool yeah let's do that uh-huh and they just kind of let me go and then we had to do hurry because the tourist season was about to end so we needed people there to actually go to the show so we had to shoot it like a month later so you shot that for outside of friends and family which i guess was what a dozen right you're shooting you shot that for real fucking Gulf Shore tourists? Yeah. That's pretty brave. How did you pull that off without fucking collapsing?

They're cool, man. Me and Sean Patton used to do a show there like twice a year. At that place? Not there. At another place similar to that. Yeah. And they love it, man. And Sean would fucking demolish just like telling whatever

stories you know they're just open he's southern boy too right yeah where's he from new orleans yeah yeah so it was like they were cool uh-huh you know they and they laughed more at a couple of jokes than anybody like that dumb in love song i have they like at first thought that i was one of maybe more similar to them politically. And then they realize I'm making fun of them. And they're like, oh, that's funny, too. You know, it was like they were cool. Okay.

At the end of the show, I was like, how many people's moms or dads died here? And like 95% of the crowd. I don't know. How's Sean doing? Sean's great. Yeah? Yeah. I haven't seen him in a long time.

I don't see a lot of the kids of your generation that often. You know what's funny is when I first started doing comedy, you were around all the time. Maybe right before, too, I would see you at all the weird shows. Maybe early. It was right when WTF had started. Yeah, because I was still like I had to. WTF had started. Yeah, because like I was still like, you know, I had to like I hadn't.

I needed to kind of like get some foothold, you know, I needed to work and I think I was working at the store, but like, you know, I didn't want to do the improv. I didn't really want to do the laugh factory. And I felt like at that time I thought it was necessary that I do those places for that audience. That was a missing piece. Yeah. Were those audiences. And that because I had been part of the original alt comedy movement in New York, that I had some sort of place in it. But I never liked the audiences that much. It was just too selective.

the audiences that much you know it was just too selective yeah you know like i came up in clubs you know performing for a broad you know base of people and then it's just like everybody was so precious and the comedy was so specific and i always resented it yeah so you know i did it and people did like me and it was fine they They seemed to be like, here comes our cranky uncle. But I definitely had a sort of like resentment to the homogenization of a type of comedy. Because it was all the same. Yeah. Those audiences. Yeah. I think, I mean, I like going to the comedy store.

I've tried many times to like get in at the comedy store and I just can't it's like just going and hanging out all the time now those audiences that were kind of built you know through all comedy or through well it's weird because now there is sort of a new generation of you know actually excited comedy audiences like people have become you know because we're all sort of putting ourselves out there on platforms and because of podcasts, there's just a whole world of younger people that are like on top of it and know the dudes and are into the thing and they come out. You know, it's really kind of what was before the plague, a kind of heyday for it all. Yeah. You know, and it seems like as that's happening a lot of those alt spaces are kind of closing down or they're not as many right no way there's not nearly as many alt shows as

there used to be it used to be like you could do a show a night right alt show a night but now it's like and also used to be that the comedy store nobody was there oh no when i first started yeah so what's yeah it's like it's it's crazy how it kind of flipped around. Right, right. But a lot of the people that were driving the alt scene also became bigger acts. Yeah. And so they don't do it anymore. Yeah, they all became famous.

I was thinking about that the other day, or maybe about six months ago. I was like, shit, nobody from my crew has gotten famous. I was like, who, nobody from my crew has gotten famous. I was like, who's it going to be? Because the group, the guys ahead of us, there's like 10 of them who got super big. And then there's y'all,

y'all seen, y'all got super big. And I'm like, fuck, we're already in our thirties. Nobody. So far. I was in my forties.

Oh yeah, that's good. That's a good reminder. It's also funny to think that I was seeing you. No, I'm not of the next one up like you know i i think like zach i would say it's probably the one after me oh really kind of maybe maybe not i mean like i remember when zach started you know and i don't believe we started

the same time yeah i feel like he started a little after me like rogan's definitely in my generation yeah all i know is the one on top of us was that 80s crew you know like um seinfeld and all those guys and then you know we're the wave after that yeah and then there's another wave that's and then then you guys yeah that's always the best thing you know it is something that everybody you always ask people from the store that they always skip right over that on your podcast what is you'll go what was it oh what's that you always go what was that like i like uh about jim carrey oh yeah and they just go i don't know and then they talk about something else yeah and he's like why does everybody always skip over the Jim Carrey conversation?

I don't know. I feel like he wasn't around that much. Yeah. Like that. There were certain people that started there. But like, that's true. You know, like he doesn't get mentioned that much. You know, I don't know how long he stayed in it.

I feel like, you know, it was kind of like meteoric. Yeah. Like, you know, when he locked in but i i don't that's a good question i don't know i mean i wish he would come on yeah it's weird he hasn't well i don't know he doesn't he's sort of an isolated dude he's an odd dude yeah he's a strange guy yeah you know but he's a very manic very creative guy but i don't know as more podcasts sort of exponentially grow i think that that kind of like the idea that they need to do this one kind of gets a little diminished when they have when there's so many other ones like i know i'm sort of that second wave og i wasn't i didn't invent

the podcast but i helped popularize it but now we're at some other level, man. Like, you know, there are certain people that are like, you know, they have a choice. Right. You know, all I can offer, like someone like Jim Carrey is like, well, I talked to Tom Driesen and J.J. Walker. So if you want to be part of my little oral history experiment around the comedy story, you can come down and do that. Now you talked to Obama. Sure. I think he might know that guy. Sure. No, no, no and do that. Now you talk to Obama. Sure, yeah. I think he might know that guy.

Sure. No, no, no. I know. I'm just saying that whether they do this or Dax or if they're of a certain type of mind, they're going to do Joe, whatever. Yeah, yeah. I run the same shop over here. Hopefully, we'll be able to continue doing live ones.

It's hard to say. You're the last live one I've got booked. Whoa, really? This thing is really working out for me, this ones. It's hard to say. You're the last live one I've got booked. Whoa, really? This thing is really working out for me, this corona. Oh, yeah, man. I got to make some calls. She's willing. Yeah.

But I guess we really don't know what's going to happen. Yeah, podcast is okay. I guess people want to make more cartoons now. There's some indoor stuff that are okay. Oh, no, this is going to be the big, everyone's getting a whole new skill set. People never have to leave. There's going to be some cool albums or some terrible albums.

I think that might be true. Yeah. Like, depending on how people, creative people are using their time. Yeah. Like, as far, I'm, you know, occasionally getting on the live Instagram. Yeah.

And then I, like, but I'm 10 minutes in, I'm like, this is stupid. There's nothing happening. I mean, you know, I'm out here in the garage again. But people love it. They do, kind of. I wonder when people are going to start slipping, though. Kind of like, I'm back.

You guys okay? I'm losing it. We're just filming stuff they definitely shouldn't be filming. Oh, that'd be great. I think that already happened. An NBA guy accidentally filmed himself getting a blowjob on Instagram Live. Really? Yeah.

How do you accidentally? I don't know. He said he was hacked too, but it's like his hand on the floor. Well, it's definitely something people are doing if they can. Yeah. All right. So have you talked to your aunt? Yeah, I talk to her a lot.

Oh, good. She's never going to hear this, but hopefully we'll surprise her with the record that they wanted to put out. Oh. Getting it all mixed and mastered. That'd be sweet. Get a label to put it out, some little reissue label, you know? Sure, man. Press 500 or something.

Yeah. That's the dream. Well, that's nice. And maybe then everything, you'll be all better. I don't think so. Thanks for talking, man. Thanks, dude. There you go.

Quite a story. Yes. Watch the special, Whitmer Thomas, the Golden One, available on all HBO platforms, and also the songs from the Golden one, if you dig them, are available to stream or download. And there's a CD or an LP with two exclusive tracks, not featured on the special.

But that was a... I like that guy. Nice guy. The guitar you're about to hear I played live for an audience of about 3,000 people on Instagram Live. You're going to witness a very short, kind of clunky concert. But you only hear my part of it. Thank you. guitar solo guitar solo Boomer lives! We'll see you next time. may vary by region. See app for details. Discover the timeless elegance of Cozy, where furniture meets innovation. Designed in Canada, the sofa collections are not just elegant, they're modular, designed to adapt and evolve with your life. Reconfigure them anytime for a fresh look or a new space. Experience the Cozy difference with furniture that grows with you, delivered to

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