WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1128 - Chris Cooper

Episode Date: June 5, 2020

Chris Cooper was a guy who worked with his hands. He was raised to be a cowboy on his father’s ranch, spent time building Arrowhead Stadium in Kansas City, and worked as a jack-of-all-trades when he was trying to scrape by. Then he became known as a guy who worked with his heart and got to the top of his craft by doing so. Chris talks with Marc about breaking his shyness to become an actor, meeting his wife in acting class, working with John Sayles, and winning an Oscar for his madcap performance in Adaptation. This episode is sponsored by Ben & Jerry’s and HBO Max. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney+. 18-plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucksters what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf still it. I'm still at it here at the chaotic sort of... I'm not going to say end of the world. I'm not going to say it. There's something about grief that is informing the way I see the world in a way that I'm sort of surprised by. I don't want to get too deep into it before saying that Academy Award winning actor

from Adaptation, American Beauty, and The Bourne Identity, Chris Cooper, is my guest today. He's in the new season of Homecoming on Amazon Prime, and he's in the new movie Irresistible with Steve Carell. prime and he's in the new movie irresistible with steve carell a great actor and a guy who i i've always thought was uh seemed like an earnest fella and a worker and uh always um does the job interesting choices and uh just a master master of the craft. I was happy to talk to him. We did it over the Zoom or the something. I don't remember what one we used,

but I need to do it over the video so I can look at people. That's how that's working now. now so look um yesterday they um cremated the body of my girlfriend lynn shelton this heavy day and uh it's not like i was there but there was sort of a finality to it you know but there there is something going on i'm trying to to get back into life in the sense that you'll get out of my head or i i don't even know it's it's a very difficult time in the world and in my house and in my head and in my heart i get it and in my house and in my head and in my heart, I get it. It would be natural, you would think, for me to lose a sense of meaning or purpose.

I don't know how many people are worried, I guess. I don't know if there's some sort of dark bedding pool in terms of whether or or not i i kill myself over this i i or the world and i i don't feel that i'm not feeling that right now i'm i'm completely consumed with with sadness and not disbelief but just it's almost like i'm on some other different plane with this grief and then when i check into the world and I realize like, you know, we're all grieving, really, and we're all angry that I'm starting to sort of reintegrate into the reality spectrum. Obviously, my reality is very small and very specific, very pained. But the bigger reality is something that affects all of us and is righteous. And there's a fight to be fought and it's being fought.

And, you know, if you would have asked me a few days ago, I would have thought like, well, all this stuff is really kind of making me not want to live. But now something's sort of shifting. It comes and goes. But it's the fragility of life, man, that one day you're here and then the next minute you can be gone for whatever reason is real and it's profound whether you die too young of of unknown disease or you're murdered i mean that's life gone and it's awful. Both of those situations are awful, but obviously when you're murdered, there needs to be justice.

I don't know where to seek justice for the loss I'm experiencing. But I don't know, I felt a little hopeful the other day, as I released her spirit from this realm through her vessel, thinking about it. But I feel like there's something pushing me that there is some light. And I don't know why I would see that. spirit is sort of screaming and and and and kind of transcending and and winning something it seems like it's being heard i believe that seems like people are coming together a bit i guess what i'm saying is that in my grief though i am sad i am not dark and I feel hope and I feel a deeper connection to life

right now, this moment. I do need to know why the birds are shitting all over my house. I don't know what it is. There's like, I saw a bunch of bird shit in the driveway and I'm like, what's up? And then I looked up and there was a hawks nest there. But now on my back deck, there's this one place where birds are just shitting everywhere. And then over on my front patio, there's fucking bird shit everywhere. It's like they're targeting my house. I think I heard somewhere that it's good. Like it's good luck or something.

But I've had enough of the luck. Now it's like a fucking mess of good luck. If that's what it is. Maybe it's an indication that things are turning around, that things are going get better or that things are you know i don't know i don't know maybe it's just a fucking mess and there's bird shit everywhere this is a funny story i was kind of wondering if i should tell it but i will a lot of people have been reaching out to me as i said and i appreciate all your emails and texts and everything I do I'm feeling a bit better a little more grounded and my heart seems to be in the right place I did have a slight battle with lack of purpose or meaning this morning and but I got

out of bed and I went and laid with monkey as I told you I've been doing but out of nowhere my buddy my old friend who I've known since we were children, it seems, Jeff Ross, the comedian, gave me a buzz out of nowhere. He had sent his condolences, which I appreciated. But out of nowhere, the other day he calls, he's like, hey, how's it going? I'm like, fine. He goes, I have to come over. And I'm like, okay. And he's like, can I just come over right now? And I'm like, what's going on? Are you recording this? Is this a bit? What's happening? He's like, no, I just need to, I need to talk and I need to come over. I'm like, all right, come over. And I think I thought like, well,

maybe he's feeling bad for my situation and that he wants to sit with me while like people have been doing. And, you know, a lot of people I know are kind of, kind of know, come over and then, you know, they just get to watch me cry for a few minutes and wrestle with my feelings and my heart and my loss. But, uh, so Jeff comes over and, you know, we're all, we're out front, we're distance, we're masked. And, uh, he just decided I was the guy he needed to talk to about his own relationship, which he's having some problems in he's like yeah i just you were the guy i thought would be best i'm like the guy whose girlfriend died three weeks ago that's you decided like i'm the guy that's that's going to be the go-to for some

relationship issues he's like yeah i don't know why i'm i just i thought like what a beautiful thing the community i come from that there's so much beautiful outreach and support. And also just, you know, Jeff was like, fuck it. I got to talk to somebody. I'll talk to Marin. This is the perfect time to talk to him about my relationship. You know what, folks? I'll tell you.

Not unlike AA or anything else, you know, just to get out of my own head and sit there and listen to someone else's issues and someone else's problem someone else's story which is what i do on this show all the time in in good times and in bad times it's good for the fucking soul man to shut up and listen speak from your own experience admit when you don't know what the fuck to say or how to help. Help if you can. Show up. Just show up. And he felt that too. I mean, like, you know, we talked about my situation, but I hope I helped him with his situation.

I don't know, but I thought it was sort of funny and endearing and specifically something a comedian would do. I'm going to go talk to the one guy I know who is just shattered and grieving about my relationship problems at this point in time. Chris Cooper, you can watch right now. Homecoming is currently streaming on Amazon Prime Video. It was funny when I talked to him. I watched the entire first season waiting for him to show up,

but it's sort of, it's not, I don't think it's an anthology show, but each season is different, different actors, and he wasn't in the first season at all. And I actually didn't watch the season he was in until after we talked. His new movie, Irresistible, with Steve Carell, will be available to rent on demand June 26th. This is me and Chris Cooper coming up in a couple of minutes. And also, I might want to add that his wife, his wife, Mary Ann, who's also an actress, chimes in occasionally.

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Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive.

FX's Shogun. A new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Where are you? Hold up in Massachusetts? Yeah, we're, you know, called South Shore. Sure, I know.

Not in the islands. And we're next town over from Plymouth. Oh, okay. Yeah, I used to do, I started my stand-up career in New England area, and I used to do stand-up in all those little towns. Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah. So you must know, what was his, what's his name?

Oh, Steve Sweeney. Steve Sweeney. Of course. He's a friend of yours? Yeah, I went to school with him. went to umass boston marianne used to do sketch comedy in new york with uh another woman and two guys well yeah steve uh was like the king of boston he was just out here he did some weird little movie uh uh sweeney killing sweeney or something and he he came out but i knew him when i was a kid starting out there yeah he was the he was the he was the biggest comic in Boston for a while. Mark where are you? I'm in

Glendale. You're burning up there or what? No we're all right it's been okay you know it's a like you know I'm fortunate and I was just talking to Marianne there like I you know I I got a little money in the bank and I'm not freaking out. And, you know, and I'm doing this and I'm getting out to buy food and I'm exercising. But it's, you know, today it's a little weird because, you know, when they, Gavin Newsom says, you know, it's probably going to be three more months. And you really start to realize, like, nothing's really going to be the same ever again. And there's a lot of people that are going to really get weeded out by this thing. And, and we don't really know, you know,

what the economic outcome we're going to be living in as a country. It's like today, for some reason, I'm sort of like, Holy shit. It's all fucking it's wide open, man. And I like, I appreciate that there, that, you know, those that are talking facts that i accept i mean it seems like there's the world no going back you know no no going back to the old things and there's so much stuff that needs to be addressed now i know it's crazy like yeah yeah not what i think i said this the other, I said pretty soon we're all going to be who we are. Like there's that moment where, you know, you cross over and you realize like it's very hard not to be self-reflective.

And it's also very hard not to be in your skin and in your life because everything has sort of been taken away. So you can really assess your priorities and your principles and who you are and what you stand for and what you might want to do with the rest of your life if we have the opportunity. Like Marianne said, we're 37 miles from Boston. And her extended family, I mean, she grew up here in Boston with her sister and brother. It's killing her. You know she's a social italian girl right and she can't see her family the nieces and the nephews and it's terrible are they doing okay they're doing okay and and and and a little uh the children the nieces and nephews you know they

they're quarantined so thankfully our, our niece is special ed educated, and she's teaching, and they're doing well, you know. Oh, good. Well, that's good. Yeah, I mean, that's the best we can hope for. And I, you know, something will eventually give. It's just really, it makes it all the more frightening that the actual federal government is so chaotic and wrong-minded and and and just terrifying it's just terrifying when you when the thing in the back of your head as an american you know there's certain things we have grown to rely on even if we don't have to and now uh you know about 80 of that thing is completely unreliable and and in the opposite it's actually terrifying so yeah but i i just

think it's it's amazing you know you know untruths when you hear them you know untruths when you see them and that half of this country or whatever is uh supporting this jackass they're brain fucked they're completely brain fucked and their. And their brains aren't coming back. They voluntarily allow themselves to be scrambled permanently. I'm looking forward to the point when he's out. I hope so.

And then the Republican line will be, well, you know, we tried, but we just couldn't move him or, you know, just allowing all this bullshit to happen. Oh yeah. They'll just, they'll, they'll never take responsibility. That's for sure. But, but it's interesting what you say, Chris, to transition about knowing the truth and knowing when someone's lying. I mean,

I'd like to believe you, but it seems like a lot of people want to believe what they want to believe. But I think, you know, as an actor, you know, if I was to sort of focus in on one thing that you seem to kind of have in your toolbox is a sort of no bullshit kind of like engage in the truthness. truthness yeah yeah well um that's that's the kind of stuff that's the kind of acting yeah that's the kind of film work that got me interested in in in the business and of course well sure the films from the from you know 50s and 60s that's what really got me started like which ones you know of course it's the big three it's the montgomery cliff brando dean uh and on the women women's side it was joe van fleet and mercedes mccambridge and great talents like that and and what's her name um julie uh who worked with dean on east of eden jul Julie Harris. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Truth in acting. And unfortunately, I got to say, unfortunately, Marianne and I met in acting class. And our coach, our acting coach was Winn Handman. He was a disciple of the Neighborhood Playhouse. Unfortunately, we just lost him a couple of weeks ago, and it had somewhat to do with the virus. Oh, that's – I'm sorry. He was 95 years old and sharp as a tack. I'm sorry to hear that. But he taught us truth.

Right. He taught us to drop the bullshit and – know um play the truth he took me apart and put me back together it was great so but you didn't uh like you didn't you're not from new england you're like a country guy no i'm from i'm from i grew up in missouri like not st louis uh other side kansas city right on the Kansas City and Missouri and Kansas line. Yeah. And then my father and I raised Hereford cattle over in Kansas. He had some land over in Kansas and spent a lot of time there.

That was his job? How old were you when you were raising cattle? He was a doctor. So he had to, you know, it was like a toy investment for him um and we uh we ran the ranch uh primarily for the for the early early 60s through the 70s so and and that was you were sort of a an actual cowboy oh Oh, yeah, we did everything. We did everything, you know, the delivering cattle at midnight in winter. Hopefully, you know, we try and worked it out so the cows would drop at spring, you know, and we do the weaning and the castrating and the vaccinating

and you realize that you spend enough time with these cattle. They all are individual and so cute. You got to send them off to market. It breaks your heart. But that life was terrific, and I almost considered carrying on with it. But thank God, on with it but thank god i wanted to pursue this acting thing and now i realize ranching is so physical yeah well it's sort of interesting i watched john's movie irresistible he should have given you more to do with that background i know we'll get into that but oh my god working with corral that was a knockout that was great oh yeah he's so funny huh yeah yeah yeah but like what changes so is your brother you have a brother right yes i got an older brother a couple years older than me did he stay in the ranching game

oh hell no no he was a party boy oh he and i were kind. He and I are kind of opposites. He's super high energy and funny as hell and a real quick wit. And I envy all of that, you know. But he was a great brother. He got into radio and TV at university. But then he got into fine home building and, and, and contracting. Oh, so that was, he's a contractor. Yeah. And he kind of helped me along the way because, um, when I was, uh, you know,

in 69, Vietnam was going on really strong and, uh, I was working well. And I was working, well, anyway, I volunteered. I went into the Coast Guard as a reservist. So that's a six-year deal. But that kind of setup also allows you to go to college while you're in the military. Brother helped me out in the meantime. He also, this is 1970. Yeah. They were working, they were breaking the ground on the Chiefs and Royals football and baseball stadium. So my brother got me a job as a carpenter's helper. Yeah. job as a carpenter's helper. Yeah. Working on the stadium. And wow, I worked on the stadium for about a year. And man, that paid, can you imagine that paid for two years of college?

So you were, did you know how to be a carpenter? Or were you, did you learn there? Kind of like on the job training, I was, I was looking over the shoulders of these old timers, the job training, I was looking over the shoulders of these old timers who were, you know, putting up forms for cement pours and the gopher for everything and track down the electricity. And the fucking number of times I got shocked and they'd just die laughing. It was a joke to them. They'd just die laughing. It was a joke to them. But that helped me. I roughed in a few houses with my brother.

And then on the trip to New York where I was headed, my side job, my main job, my survival job was a toolbox on wheels. Handyman. And I took on the subway with me. Yeah. To the Upper East Side or Upper West Side and worked for these wealthy people in their apartments doing whatever they needed. Yeah, like you were like a handyman. Everyone needs that guy. So that was great for auditions because I could call my own hours.

But where did you go to college college did you study acting in college i mean university of missouri and was the was it always the intention to to be an actor or did that sort of unfold yeah i knew i was headed i knew i i took every damn class i could you as English, Shakespeare, all the theater classes. But you never did any acting in high school or anything? Oh, yeah. We did this. We did like the senior musical. Right.

And it was Camelot. Uh-huh. And I got pissed off because the mayor's son got to play Lancelot. Mm-hmm. and so i ended up playing one of the three nights see that politics yeah it's always gonna fuck you politics yeah this is and it's been a through line through a lot of your roles including that the last irresistible you just you know it's all part of the payback for that fucking kid, for Lance a lot. And then second semester of my sophomore year at university, then I got serious about theater and started auditioning and doing main stage plays. And it was University of Missouri, I think, gave me a really good foundation.

I go farther back, you know, I was still involved with theater when I was 16. So I really knew where I was headed. In what capacity? Doing everything but acting. So wait, now where was that? That was a little what they call resident theater. Yeah. On the Kansas, Missouri line line and it was called a barn

players theater so you'd have you'd have dentists and nurses and doctors plumbers whatever these residents who put on shows for an audience for a paying audience yeah and my friend i was like 16 16 years old yeah my friends were getting into a little bit of petty crime and it was getting kind of serious yeah you know and so i kind of wanted to separate myself from them so i offered my time went up to this theater talked to the artistic director that said i'll do anything uh just let me you know just keep me out of jail get me going here and of course i worked for free they were happy with that so wait did any of your friends end up in prison oh yeah oh yeah Oh. Oh, yeah. So anyway, I said I did everything but acting. Hung lights, ran a light board, stage managed, was in the wings each night.

Building sets? As a scene shifter. And then I worked my way back to the shop and built sets and got into design. So you really knew it. Yeah. Well, you knew the organic nature of the film, of the theater community. Yeah.

And it's also that thing of appreciate, not, you know, the actors are going to get enough glory. Right. But learn to appreciate all those people around you that put together a project or a a play and you know and respect their their efforts too you know yeah and i think it's sort of fascinating too in general about the idea of community theater or neighborhood theater or the theater company where you know everybody becomes this it's almost like an organic or symbiotic, a family kind of thing. There's a respect, but it's a living, breathing sort of community.

It became very, very dear, very touching. These were great, great people. And we became, you know, over a summer, became a little family, you know. So you got your, you got, but you weren't ready to step on the stage yet. Were you a sociable person? Were you like nervous about it? Like that, like, were you one of those guys where, where like, you know, once you finally got on stage, you were like, this is where I belong.

But before that you were like, you don't talk much. Well, here, you know, I mean, how far do we go back? I claim that my fifth, my sixth grade teacher recognized the shyness in me. Yeah. But I had a good singing voice. Yeah. where they put all four classes together, sing along, individual quartet, sing a song, so on and so forth. Yeah. And she put me in a quartet,

and in that quartet I had to sing a little bit of solo, and I liked the applause. I loved it. I loved it. Yeah. And very much got into singing. Any opportunity I did later on to sing, I went to church choir. At the high school, we had a really nice, really respected choir. And within the high school choir, there was a male octet, and I was one of the baritones. And we did state competition and all that singing.

Oh, wow. Yeah. And then around that time, my folks took me to Las Vegas because they wanted to have some fun. But as a 15 15 year old i thought vegas was so damn cool sure i thought it was so mature yeah you know and and and you know oceans 11 or whatever well we still i think it probably was when you were 15 it was yeah probably still pretty cool yeah we stayed at the desert inn as long long gone you know yeah and i saw some of those bar shows

yeah and man i just fell in love with it with the lounge acts the singer yeah yeah i was a great fan of like johnny mathis and tony bennett so i thought and then and and then in high school i sang on a band and we did umnity parties and, you know, university. You were in a rock band? Yeah. Yeah. So you were a singer, man. Yeah.

You were a singer. The New Blue Soul Sound. Wow. So you were like a soul singer. Yeah. And I don't know if you had it when you were growing up, but in Missouri, we had these little dance halls, or rather big dance halls for teenagers, not alcoholic, but places where teenagers on Friday night and Saturday night, they come dance. We did that a lot on weekends. That teacher saw my shyness, and she really worked on me, and I'm so appreciative.

She saved you from an introverted life of carpentry and i still had remnants of it but you know in university um pretty nice to be in a theater department where there are a lot of girls sure you got a lot of people to impress really nice put the Put the show on. Yeah. Well, that's it. You know, I thought, yeah, you'd be surprised how many people I talked to, musicians, comics, actors who that was the reason they got into it. Was. I wouldn't argue.

So once you do commit to it and you did you. So in college, did you major in acting or no? You could call it a major, but what it was, what I got my degree in, was a general studies degree that was primarily created for Vietnam vets who could come back to university and present them. And if they could persuade the powers, powers that be, this is what I want to do as a career. If they accepted your argument, then you could more or less create your own curriculum. Yeah. And that's what you did? Uh, pretty much, but I mean, it was still a pretty good, pretty good education. I still had to do the minimum requirement,

you know general requirement for the liberal arts yeah yeah so right out of college you're like i'm going to new york wait i mean that's like what yeah yeah 1970 1969 what what year was that uh was this was uh actually i took my time okay i took a couple of i took a little break from college, and so I didn't graduate until I think 74 or 75. Oh, really? So you're just hanging around doing plays or doing carpentry? No, I was doing ranch work freshman and sophomore year. My junior and senior summers, I stayed at university to do the summer rep.

Okay. And we did three plays each summer, and you were in all three. Oh, so you're getting your flying hours in. Yeah. So it would be like two straight plays and a musical. And in terms of teachers, were you just winging it, or did you have somebody, you're working with good directors, or was somebody laying down how to do this? Mark, here's the deal. I had a real strong relationship with a St. Louis fellow, Edmund Wesley, who's African-American, very older than me, had already gone to New York, was a very established Broadway dancer.

He came back to university to get his master's. Okay. And so part of getting his master's, he had to choreograph the summer rep musical. And that was The Boyfriend i played tony and that means tap dancing and jazz dancing and he told the cast when he when he started choreographing he said my choreography is not going to be easy. And he worked our tails off. He worked our tails off. Yeah.

But it was a great experience. And then when I graduated, I moved with three other guys and Edmund to New York. And of course we had the advantage because Edmund already had an apartment in New York. And of course we had the advantage because Edmund already had an apartment in New York. So we, I stayed there for a couple of months until we were at each other's throat. All five of you were in the, in the apartment? Yeah. I mean, literally sleeping like, like the three stooges, three bunk beds high we built, you know? Right. So what, what was the plan though because i know that so

this is the mid 70s and you guys were just going to audition what y'all you were running around with your toolbox and they were doing other jobs but none of you had agents or anything no no way no you would do we would do uh you go up to the corner and get the uh trade paper and in the back there would be some you know auditions and stuff and but there were also a lot of off off broadway uh shows hundred seat houses yeah and um you'd often do um you know little plays and um and then also of of course, survival jobs. So when do you start studying with Wynn? How do you sort of kind of build on your abilities? Okay, so I came to New York in 75 and did a few small productions,

and did a few small productions. And I think I got, I think I heard about this class in late 78, 79 and started doing classwork. At the actor's playhouse? At this little playhouse, this little studio that Wynn had set up. And people would do scene work and what they called across-the-table exercises of cold readings. You take material you're not even familiar with, not indicating your work. He was a terrific teacher. And you stayed there for how long? Man, I would say, Marion, two years, three years. And I met, I met Mary, my wife in that class.

She was the secretary and she would get, she would get free. She could study for free by being the secretary and admitting new state students in as they came along. Did you guys work together on scenes and plays? Oh, sure. Yeah. Yeah. You're doing it now. This was the, oh, i have to tell you so this was the star class yeah and i was moving up from the intermediate class yeah and my coach my intermediate coach came with me to uh tell uh marianne that uh

i was coming into this class and mary said, no, no, he's not. There's a six month waiting list for students here. And Bob McAndrew, my intermediate coach said, no, I've talked to Wynn. Everything's cool. He's coming into class. And so down the road, really as a sign of how you have grown as a student i think eight months down the road he assigned marianne and i to work on uh eugene o'neill uh morning becomes electra, the brother-sister incestuous scene. Yeah.

So we worked our tails off on that. And, you know, just kind of found a liking for each other. I guess if you're going that deep, you're going to really know each other at the end of that. Yeah. and so it just seems like so i mean you were not young by the time you started working uh in in movies i was not young no i mean i didn't do i don't think i did a film any film work until i was 35 i was i was content i was really content with theater. Thank goodness. Were you doing a lot of Broadway? Were you doing big pieces? I was doing regional theater. A lot of regional theater. And really caught some big breaks

doing that. Like what? In 1980, Actors Theater Louisville was in its heyday. They were just, they had a great literary department and they would do a new play, one act festivals that would go on for, you know, a month and a half or two. And New York, the agents and the managers in New York would empty and come down to Louisville to watch these new plays and look for actors and new talent. And a number of the plays went up to Broadway. Right, right, right. Sure. So that's what you did. So you'd go down there for a month. Right, right, right. Sure. So that's what you did. So you'd go down there for a month.

I did that for a couple of summers when the artistic director would invite me to, you know, join the company. And that's sort of how you that's how you paid your dues. That's how you got your your time on stage in and worked your chops and became a better actor was doing these regional theaters. Was it did you go elsewhere? It wasn't just Louisville. Were there other places you'd go? regional theaters was it did you go elsewhere it wasn't just louisville were there other places you'd go no yeah and there were small like i said there were small um hundred seat houses in new york where you do you know you'd do plays but did you ever do that kind of a road touring company or spend like three four months in a place and that kind of stuff uh yeah yeah i did um in but But it was a little bit later in 82, 83. We used to have this exchange with the UK. Yeah. Where we would exchange talents and UK actors would come over here and American actors would go over to UK.

Right. So I kind of lucked out in that there was going to be a production of Tennessee Williams' Sweet Bird of Youth, directed by Harold Pinter with Lauren Bacall as the aged actress. And so So Michael Beck played Chance, the lead guy in it. And I understudied Michael and was cast as Stuff the bartender, who is introduced in the second act. So never had the opportunity to work with Lauren. Michael was there every night but um that was a seven month um run right in the west end in in london but before that we did a we did a tour for five weeks of uh brighton manchester plymouth wow it's a whole lifestyle. Bath. Yeah. Birmingham. Yeah.

And it was a terrific half year. And so you were good with that? You were like, this is the life? Well, you know, I mean, it was important. It was really important to have Marianne understand the business. You know, before we got married, we had a really serious talk and I said, I got nothing else to fall back on. I am serious about this business. And you know, if we succeed, it's going to pull us apart for periods of time. So I don't need a needy girlfriend.

Are you in or out? And she wasn't by any means. She can fill up her own time very well. So there have been some jobs that have taken me away for five months at a time. Yeah. And there's no way I could get back home. But you're talking recently. And recently, yeah. Throughout the career. So it's like being a sailor.

Yeah. Well, I'm glad that she understood and that you guys stayed together. That's a rare thing. It is, it is, but, uh, it's, um, I'm very, very lucky. Well, good. So when, when does you start, uh, how does the relationship with John sales evolve? Cause that was really what introduced you into movies, right? Yeah. And, um And Marianne and I were living together and we were answering audition, you know, clippings like I said, in the trade papers and Marianne saw that a female junior screenwriter

filmmaker at NYU wanted to do her black and white half hour film. So Marianne got cast in that film and the writer director is Nancy Savoca. They became friends senior year. Marianne and I are in Nancy's color half hour film. Nancy was trying to make a trailer for her first feature okay rich gay and nancy savoka and uh they're trying to raise money by making this trailer yeah so john sales mate maggie uh to um help the crew simply feed them she's in a kitchen with marianne making make making food for the crew and the cast yeah to shoot this to shoot this trailer yeah so rich gay knows that John wants to do this film called Mate One. And he says, okay, when the time comes, John, why don't you read this guy, Chris Cooper?

Because we've already worked with him. And I guess he gave John the okay that I was worth taking a look at. So we started the audition process with John. And I did my first audition. This coincides with when I went to the UK for seven months to do the Tennessee Williams play. Two months into being in London, I get a call back. John wants to read me again with some other actresses. So I do the Sunday matinee at the Haymarket Theater, get to the airport, fly home, and Rich Gay picks me up at the airport, drives me to the audition. I do the audition. I read with a couple of women, get right back into the car, go back to the airport, get to UK.

Okay. Hours before the Tuesday 7 o'clock or 8 o'clock curtain, I realized I haven't slept since Sunday. I haven't slept a wink and I damn near, I damn near fainted on stage. Oh, bad feeling. So that was that in a nutshell. So that's how you got the part. And that, and that movie, I remember when that came out because, I mean, I think I was in, I think I might've been in high school, but it was such a big deal somehow.

It was such like, you know, it was like, it felt like almost one of the first American independent movies. He is known as the granddaddy of independent film. And then that amazing look of the thing, I guess it was Haskell Wexler. Haskell Wexler, yes. He's like a cinematographer genius and i just i'll never forget the kind of the tone and your performance and stratham's performance and will oldham who is now like a a strange little uh empire of his own as bonnie prince billy uh he's a musical act now but james earl james earl jones that's right so like i i mean when

in in sales had done what one other movie before that he'd done uh he'd done brother from another planet and secaucus oh secaucus seven right and liana oh right so right. So this one had a little more money to it, I bet. Not that much. Yeah. I mean, it's always been hard to raise money in independent film. But just to add to that, I wish I knew what the budget was.

But like you said, to watch Haskell Wexler, this master of light, this director of photography, and on such a budget, such a low budget, what he was able to pull off. It's unbelievable. It was remarkable.

And like you as an actor, I mean, after doing all this theater and having this relationship with Winn-Hanman and doing the work and working with other directors, entering the world of film with John, I mean, entering the world of film with John. I mean, what was some of the skills that you picked up from that? I mean, what, how did that change your life or your approach to the thing? Well, okay. I say I, in, in my head, I'm thinking, okay, we're entering, we're entering the film world now. Yeah.

Right. So I'm a student and I just play dumb. The less I know, the better. Right. Just feed me. And John was the perfect person to do a first film with. He set a great example

of what a director is all about. He taught me, he taught me that time is money. Right. And you must realize i think early on john used primarily theater theater actors because i think he knew they would do their homework they would come prepared and the one thing you don't do, like with a playwright, you don't fuck with a John Sayles script. Yeah.

So he can justify every word of it. And I was brought up in the theater tradition. And so it was just understood. I learned John's work word for word, you know, and he just broke me in gently like like the other actors and was just just the. The most calming effect for somebody who was so excited and and doing his my first film. and doing my first film. I know that first week I was told to settle down because I was so excited. And I was looking over Haskell's shoulder as he's shooting and asking all kinds of questions. And so he taught me a good lesson many lessons well that's good and you did like what four movies with him i've done five five yeah yeah i mean i remember lone

star that was a beautiful average we work once every five years and we have been trying for the last three four years he's got two films that we would love to do but like you said raising money is hell it's just so hard yeah even for even for him huh i guess for anybody but yeah but i've enjoyed those movies i mean i remember city of hope but i loved uh i loved uh lone star not patting myself on the back but i think that was i think financially that was john's most successful financial film right and then like and i think that i think everybody sort of had to reckon with you when with american beauty that seems like that was your introduction to uh who the fuck is this guy i'll take that as a compliment what's going on here man this guy's well that was a pretty damn

intense film it was really intense though from the first second of the movie it's intense just the tone of it it's like emotionally menacing and and horrendously familiar so when you like i mean it seems like the i feel like i i i know you because i've watched you in many movies and it seems like you're one of these actors that's very capable of you know you can play evil uh good guy funny guy evil guy uh uh but but it's just you're just you just seem to be tweaking the little things inside of yourself that like outside well i guess there's a couple characters where you you kind of fully almost physically transform like an adaptation and stuff but i mean how do you approach these characters do you don't i guess you don't

judge them you just take them at their humanity no you can't you really can't you know that's a general statement that comes out of actors. You don't judge the characters that you're working on. And I'd agree with that. But I mean, I don't know. I think I've lived a pretty full life and had a lot of experiences. And now I'm seeing that with more and more films as I live longer and longer, I can bring more of my life experience to these characters, you know? And, and then I love, I love going out on the, out on the edge, you know, and, and going beyond or try to go beyond what i i think i'm capable of and that can that kind of sounds bullshitty but um like what would like i'd like to i i don't like to what'd be more boring than

to play yourself over and over and over you know no i get it yeah but i see it seems to me like you know with we i definitely don't think you know now talking to you that you play yourself but like american beauty you know the torment of that character yeah and the nature of you know masculinity and and all of that you know to play to play the the fury of that uh you know what did you use it do you do when you when you do characterizations do you model yourself after people that you know or do you just dig within yourself like with that thing that guy's a vet you know he's early on yeah yeah well you know um early on i might have done that i might have made substitutions yeah um of of stuff that I hadn't experienced yet.

Yeah. What else do you have as an actor? But your historical research, if it's a character that's lived and so on and so forth, or you can research the time, the politics, what was happening religiously, so on and so forth. You fill yourself up with that kind of homework. Yeah. You know, and then, and then you get particular about, about your character and you got, you got your research, you've got, uh, your life experience and what else do you have but your imagination right that's all I

that's all I got those are my only tools yeah yeah it just seems like every role or the ones that seem to stand out in my mind you know in a big way you know like American Beauty and Adaptation and, you know, even, you know, some like even watching that movie that I, well, the Tracy Letts play August Osage County. August Osage County, yeah. Yeah. And also even the character in Irresistible, there just seems to be the emotional weight of it that you seem to be able to tap into especially with adaptation you know the you know that the sort of heartbreak of that guy i mean when you when you go into those places i mean

is it hard to come out um it's not hard to come out you know know, like when you're interviewing other actors, they say, well, do you take your character home with you? Right. And if I came home with my character, my wife would kill me. Right. She wouldn't put up with it for a minute. Right. Yeah. But when you're living in a hotel or you're up in Toronto or Montana shooting a film and you go back to the hotel and motel, you got stuff to shoot the next day.

Yeah. So, yeah, you do take it home with you. Right. Well, yeah, you kind of live in it. Because now is the time to work. During the shooting schedule, it's not the time to play. Now you do your work, and it gets a little serious. Like with adaptation, you know, working.

Like that movie is a crazy movie. It's bizarre. It's bizarre. I mean, when I saw the previous one, John Malkovich. Oh, yeah. Being John Malkovich, I must've seen that, you know, I'm probably going on my ninth or 10th time to see it.

And I think I discover something new every time I see it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I watched adaptation pretty recently, but that character was so, you know, it just had a sort of an authenticity to it.

And Spike Jones, it seems like a pretty, you know, he's like a comfortable guy. Like, you know, he's like a comfortable guy. Like, you know, he seems like a very, I've met him a few times, but what's it like to work with him, you know, as a director?

Pretty remarkable. I mean, I was living in Boston and got up early, drove into New York to do the audition. Yeah. And I'll tell you, I won't name names, but I'll tell you there were some very recognizable faces. And so when my time came, if you're at all familiar with the audition process, you do your idea of the character. Right.

And if the director likes you, then he may say, let's do it again. Make this adjustment here. Think about this. Think about that. And let's go again. So from the get-go, I told Spike, I said, please, allow me to show you what I can do with this character. I can't give you my definitive audition, my definitive idea of John LaRoche. There's too many ways to play this guy.

And so he allowed me to do that. And he put, uh, he put the audition on, on a video videotape and it was about a 45 minute audition. We did probably three or four scenes, three or four different ways. And we liked, so we liked working that way so much that we carried that into when we were shooting the film. Oh, really? Because what that does is it's a, it's a,

it's a present to the director and to the editor. Yeah. You can play, you can play the scene one way and then another take played another way. So the editor, the director have a variety of um different takes to draw from you know so so you would you would he would encourage you to to sort of like shift your choices completely for different takes yeah and it and it was all based on it's it's as if

it's as if right you're this florida redneck and here is this new New York journalist came all the way down here and wants to interview you. Yeah. Well, she's lucky to have your time. Yeah. Okay. Let's turn it around. Right.

You are totally intimidated by this woman. Yeah. This bright New York journalist journalist and what are you yeah this florida redneck and so you you don't even look at her you so right right yeah yeah it's just that that kind of stuff that's interesting because that seems to like you you couldn't have acted that any more thoroughly right in terms In terms of the work, right? Because you're approaching it from all these different possibilities and then you get the Oscar for it. And it just seems like, you know, just on many levels, you know, you definitely earned that Oscar. You know what I

mean? Just to add to this, because I have to, I have to mention her. And when we did August Osage County, Meryl is the queen of shaking it up, changing it up every take. And I said, when we do these junkets and talk about the work, I say to the audience, nobody knows the talent of this woman unless you're on set watching her because she brings such variety. Yeah. She's astounding. Yeah. So when you're being challenged by the director to do a thing and then you're also working with somebody that makes it fresh every time, that must really feel like the best part of doing the job that you do. It is.

It is. It's like it keeps you on your toes because you're putting your concentration on what she's giving you. Yeah. What she's giving you. And you have to react to that. And, you know, that goes back to it just goes back to classwork, you know. Sure. I guess so. Now, when you say you want to push the envelope, because I mean, I watched Irresistible and I think it was a pretty good movie. And, you know, it looks like, you know, you and Carell had a good time, but you seem to be cast a lot.

Well, at least a few times as kind of a politician of one kind or another or a kind of rural guy that's in one form you know that so when you when you think about challenging yourself or saying that like i think little women just watching that watching you work in that that was completely different and completely rewarding yeah you know i mean it's not a big role. Obviously we see that. Right. But the little scenes are spaced out very nicely. But man, my treat was watching these kids. Yeah. And that talent. Oh my God.

They were, they were really impressive. Really impressive to watch Saoirse and, and Timothy Chalamet. Yeah. Um, they know what they're doing, you know, and Laura Dern. Oh, wonderful talents. Oh, and Merle's in that too and merle yeah i think it's a masterpiece that movie i love it's pretty lovely it's pretty but like but like what what would you like to do like you know when you think about pushing the envelope what does that mean to you well you know you know, I don't have, I'm not an ideas guy, but I put it out there and anybody's invited to, you know,

see what they can do with it. But I think it's remarkable that nobody has come up with a limited series about the architect Frank Lloyd Wright. Oh, yeah. Sure. limited series about the architect Frank Lloyd Wright. Oh yeah, sure. And he's has a, such a dramatic true life incidents that happened to he and his family and such a long career.

Yeah. And beautiful stuff. I'm a huge fan of his architecture and all, you know, so I, I think it'd be great to portray somebody like him. That's interesting. But other than that, to answer your question, I just, you know,

I wait for the material to, um, to come, or I read a book that I know down the road, if it, if it knocks me out, uh, and there's a character in there that i'm interested in years ago we did this i did this piece playing uh redford's brother called horse whisperer that was a that was kind of a romantic novel uh-huh you know and i read i heard that uh redford was going to do it so i leaped ahead and read the book and saw that he had a brother and, and, uh, you know,

so that's kind of how that job came about. I kind of pursued that. And, and when you look back on the roles that you have played, what do you think was the most, you know, uh, either risky for you or the most,

you know, the, the, the most you pushed the envelope so far. Um, I say American beauty. lone star um lone star adaptation uh i did a play called i did a film called breach about a true story about a turncoat robert hansen who uh what was that cia or fbi fbi i think yeah yeah um half of my fun is doing the homework and creating the character so i i

can't i can't call it work right but um i think they were they they were stretches. And it's rewarding, right? Oh, yeah. And the new season of Homecoming, I have to be honest, I ended up watching the film Irresistible. And then somehow or another, I didn't understand that you weren't in all of Homecoming. So I watched six episodes with Julia Roberts waiting for you to come on. That was the first season. I know. Yeah, that was the first season. So do you play a politician in this one? No, no, I play, uh,ie botanist, a very successful hippie, hippie botanist. OK, well, you know, so you saw so you saw Geist, Geist Laboratories, Geist Industry.

Right. You work for. So I'm so in the second season, introduce leonard geist is the character i play you're geist yeah oh shit well now that like i didn't even anticipate ever watching that series and now i'm in so now i'm excited to watch to watch you be geist it turned out pretty good well i'm excited yeah i mean i wanted to watch it but i wasn't going to pretend like i've i've i know from doing this for a while now that if I pretend that I saw something. You do. You do. I made a tremendous mistake once with Gyllenhaal, Maggie Gyllenhaal, playing like I saw something and then not understanding it at all.

playing like I saw something and then not understanding it at all. Yeah. I guess, I mean, one question is when, because you seem like a pretty humble guy. I mean, like what does winning an Oscar feel like for you? I mean, were you- It was fabulous. Oh, it was good. It was fabulous.

It was great. It was a great night. It was a great night. You know, from the time that Marianne and I woke up, you know, we made a day of it. Yeah. Yeah. We were staying at that. What's that place? Chateau Marmont. Yeah. Pretty famous place. Up on sunset. Yeah. And, uh, we treated each other in the morning to, um, massages in, in our bedroom and we had lunch downstairs and out in the yard and, uh you know together to go to the to the awards

but it was a night that I really wanted to remember because previously I see I see all these actors so excited and said oh it went by so fast I can't even remember it yeah and the other thing I wanted to point out is you know kind of the media, they like to build up this thing about competition between actors. And my competition, good God, was Chris Walken, Paul Newman, Ed Harris. That's a big one. That's a big lineup there. After that evening, Chris Walken and his wife and Marianne and I, we spent the evening together. And that was the, I'd never met, I didn't know Chris Walken. Oh, yeah. But we had a ball.

Just had a great time together. He seems like an intense character. No competition. He's, when you get close to him, there's something behind that. Yeah. He's wicked. He's wicked. What was he up for? Was that for True Romance?

Catch Me If You Can, I think. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. Well, great. I always look forward to your work, and now I'm excited about Homecoming. It was great talking to you. Stay safe. Enjoyed it. Bye, Marianne. Bye- It was great talking to you. Stay safe. Stay safe. Enjoyed it.

Yeah, man. And bye, Marianne. Bye-bye. Nice talking to you, Mark. Nice meeting you. All right, see you guys. See you. All right, be well, Mark.

That was me and Chris Cooper. What a sweet guy. That was his wife, Marianne, chiming in occasionally. And like I said before, the stuff he's got coming up is the second season of Homecoming on Amazon Prime. The movie Irresistible with Steve Carell

will be on demand June 26th. Thank you. Thank you. Boomer lives. It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too.

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