WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1146 - Joe List

Episode Date: August 6, 2020

Joe List shot his new standup special a week before everything shut down, but that doesn't mean he's given up on comedy. He's been performing in parks, at drive-ins and even on Zoom. Marc talks with Joe about pandemic comedy. They also explore Joe's roots as a standup, from his first viewing of a George Carlin special to his training in Boston to his experience bottoming out with alcohol while on the road. Marc and Joe compare notes on getting sober as comics. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis and ACAS Creative. what the fuck buddies what the fucksters what's happening joe list is on the show he's a comedian

out of boston out of the boston area um i didn't know much about him i was happy to talk to him i didn't when i watched his new special i didn't realize you know who he was i'd seen him around but i thought he was some alt guy some lanky little alt comic but uh he's this he's a joke swinger he's a killer old school got his training in the old method talked about that i was sort of like wow this this guy's got some uh he's got some weight he's got some heft to his joke delivery. So I talked to you Sunday and let's try to keep it together here. But I, I, monkey is, monkey's gone. Long live monkey.

Monkey is dead. Long live monkey. Great is dead. Long live monkey. Great cat. Great friend. Very consistent companion. 16 years almost to the day. My cat monkey was with me. Through it all.

Back and forth from New York a couple times. Me and the monk, Monkles, and all the way from Garbage Can in Queens, back alley, to a house on a hill, Highland Park, and now to the big house here. Monkey was with me. It was time though, man.

We had talked about it, me and Monkey. As many of you know, I've been in grief for the past couple months. I've been in grief for the past couple of months and, you know, I've been worrying about monkey's health for probably close to a year. You know, they get old. I put his sister down a while back, LaFonda.

That was rough. Terrible. It's terrible trying to figure out when, but it was very clear with LaFonda. She had lost her mind. She had lost a lot of weight. She was having trouble balancing. She was trying to climb into the toilet, into the bathtub.

And then she started howling. And then I took her in. And they rigged her up with a catheter and I held her. And the doc sedated her and then asked me, are you ready? And I was ready. And then that was that. Lynn was with me for that. I was holding the cat. Lynn was holding me. So outside of worrying about this cat constantly, constantly for months and months, I would get up. Is he all right? Is this today? Is he sick? Where is he? What's going on? Is he going to eat his medicine? What are we doing? Does he have the

flu? Does he have asthma? I mean, there's a whole portion of my brain that was committed on a daily basis, even when I was out of town, to worrying about my cat monkey, so connected to this cat. I projected a lot of misery on him, but he was okay. His quality of life was all right. But then it gets to a point where, what is it exactly? And we had a long discussion about it. You know, he knew I was sad and I told him, I said, look, I'm going to be okay. You can go. If you need to go, you can go. This was like a week or so ago. And he was still jumping up on my bed and sleeping by my head. And, you know, I was crying on my bed and, you know, he looked at me and he's like, you know, I get it, man. I get it. I know this has been hard and, uh, yeah,

I've been through a lot with you and this is certainly the hardest thing we've been through, but I'm, I'm here, but I'm, I'm, I'm almost done, buddy. I'm almost done. And I said, okay, man. All right. I get it. You're like 80. It's like,'s like yeah yeah and it's been good and i'm like well you let me know when you want to when you want to go when it's time to let go so monday i in the morning it's weird what you hang on to like i'm like i'm gonna try one more time i'm gonna give him sub-q fluids i held him down i gave him the fluids he ate his medicine and that was that was the other thing that was making me happy it It's like, if he would eat his medicine, I would get relieved. But what is that quality of life? He sat on the couch for five minutes

and he ate his medicine. It's going to be okay. It's not. After a certain point, they're just old and they're ready to go. And it's on you. They don't know when to die because you've made their life good. It's on you. So I got him in the box. I brought him in the afternoon. I texted Doc from the parking lot and he got him in there right away. And it was so weird because Monkey is usually crying in the car.

He was just looking at me. He was just peaceful, almost like baby faced. Kind of like, okay, thank you. I'm sorry. But when they took him out of the car, the guy, the tech, he's like, meow. And I'm like, oh, man. And I had Modesto. I had Doc, you know, I had him do a panel, do a blood panel, man.

Let's just check it out. And he does the blood panel. I wait about an hour. And he's like, you know, it looks great. Everything looks great. The kidneys look great. I'm like, I gave him sub-Q fluids. He's like, oh, that's why. But then he said he lost another 0.3. He's down 1.3 pounds in five weeks. That's a lot of his body weight. It's not good. And I'm like, but his kidneys are all right. So like, what can we do? He's like, we can give him an appetite stimulant I'm like yeah let's do that let's give him a appetite stimulant that'd be great but try that and I was about to take him home and I just sat there and I'm like wait a minute he can't breathe he's whimpering he's lost a pound in three you know it's like the medicine's

not working for the asthma anymore you know the sub-q fluids am I going to get him an inhaler and do sub-q fluids three times a week get him an inhaler and do sub-q fluids three times a week for what so he can sit on the couch for five minutes and eat his medicine so i texted back i'm like doc i don't know man it don't feel right and i wanted my vet to tell me he helped me with lafonda he said it's time and my vet because he's a great vet over at Gateway in Los Feliz, Modesto, Dr. Modesto, he texted me back. Yes, I would honestly euthanize monkey if it was my cat. I said, okay, let me know when to come in. But so I went in there, they brought me in,

they walked me back. I put the mask on and he was sleeping he was out but his eyes were open he was sedated breathing monkey my cat my old guy and um there were two techs in there and the doctor I said how many people are going to be in here and I'm fucking crying and I said just me and you and I'm like okay let's do it and I just put my hand on monkey's chest and you know in his stomach and on his head and I said go ahead do it and I just held him and he shot it in him and then it just stopped the breath stopped almost immediately and I walked out I cried a lot on the way home, but I just, the hardest thing is just knowing that you did the right thing.

And of course it was the right thing to do. And of course it was the right time to do it. And I now just realizing just how worried I was about him all the time, all the time. And I'm so sad that he's gone, but God, what a great cat, what a great life, and he really fucking hung in there, so I'm relieved, but sad, because I can remember my whole life with that cat, I can remember all 16 years, you know, like he's been the constant, him and the other ones,

LaFonda and original crew, and you got to realize, I don't know, many of you know this story, but it's, I don't need to tell you know this story but it's i don't need to tell the whole story but it was because of those cats that i found my voice on radio it was the adventures of those cats and my adventure with those cats when i trapped them in astoria in 2004 when they were a couple months old the night before the republican convention and i was doing daily morning radio and i brought four feral kittens into my house that's and i began talking about that on the air that's where i developed my ability to be on these mics my voice on the radio and on this podcast was built on the backs of La Fonda and Monkey, for sure. They were the inspiration. They were the muses. They were the beginning of freeing my voice on radio. Godspeed, Monkey. Monkey is dead. Long live Monkey.

Thank you for all your support and fan art and everything else and for listening me talk about monkey he's made his way into at least two of my specials and the fucking munkers oh yes oh yeah i should mention this on sunday august 9th i will have 21 years sober if I make it to Sunday. I think I'm going to make it. I got a pretty strong feeling that I can tell you this now, and I'll probably bring it up Monday. But August 9th, 21 years sober. If that inspires anybody, it fucking should.

It's an amazing thing that I don't even think about that as a solution anymore drugs or alcohol and i'm off of uh nicotine for almost a year i think that's like on the 24th or something so not bragging because god knows being wide awake at this particular juncture in history is not particularly terrific or a great gift, but it is happening, and I'm not hiding from it. So try to, if you need to stay sober, if you need to, if you have a problem or you think you have a problem, there's always help. You can find help. There's always a meeting somewhere online now. You can go to a meeting any place in the world right from your house now. Okay. Enough of that.

okay enough of that um boston joe list comes from boston and he did his training in a similar way that i did you know with some of the dudes that i knew that i came up with and it was kind of a great it was a great talk because i didn't know him and you know and you know i started in boston really and he's got a new comedy special Joe does it's called I hate myself Joe List I hate myself premieres tonight at 9 p.m eastern on YouTube as part of Comedy Central's stand-up channel Joe financed it himself and then he taped it a week before everything shut down he also has a weekly podcast that he hosts with Mark Normand called Tuesday Stories. Get that wherever you get podcasts. And this is me and Joe List coming up. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, We'll be right back. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials.

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How are you, man? I'm pretty good. I'm nervous. This makes me nervous. Why does it make you nervous? I mean, I guess we don't really know each other. I don't know you. Yeah, we don't know each other at all.

But I know you through the show. I'm a big fan of the show. We chatted in Montreal last year a little bit, almost a year ago today, probably. That's right. And so you know me through this show, and maybe you've seen my stand-up or no? Yeah, quite a bit. Yeah, so I was on a bringer show with you in – I was bringing in 2002, 2001, stand-up New York. Maybe it might have even been 2000. I was a kid.

It must have been a rare night because I fucking hated that place and never went there. Yeah, it was definitely, you seemed unhappy, and I did the thing where I was like, hey, I'm opening for Marc Maron. I said that to you, which many people have said to me since. Yeah, yeah. And it makes me think, boy, this guy must have hated me. Yeah. Well, I mean, fortunately, if there was any sort of hate, it's gone away. I don't recall it. You're probably right in that moment. It was probably not great. But wow. Yeah. It's so weird when people say certain clubs like that one. I'm like, I hated going in there. I hated working at that place. I hated everyone who ran it over the years that it went on. But I know that a lot of people who came to New York went through there because they did so many of those bringer shows.

Yeah, that was like, well, I started in Boston. So I found out about bringer shows. So I would drive down with my bringer, like my family. I'd drive down with like four people and drive to New York, do a set, and then drive back. Really? Yeah. That was my... And I thought, in the time, I thought, I was like, here we go, baby.

We're going to New York. New York City. Right, Mom? Who was in the car with you? I drove down a couple times with my mother, father, and sister, and my uncle one time. That was a car. And it was like a regular sedan, so there'd be like four of us in the car.

And you'd go, and you'd see where you were on the lineup, and you'd wait sometimes. Was there ever one of those nights where you didn't go on until everyone was gone? It wasn't too bad like that. I mean, like, I feel like I don't remember that. I'd have like a decent spot because I actually brought my people. But I remember there was a lot of people that would sign up and they weren't able to get their people.

And so that would be, I did have to squabble and try to get people. And that happened to me once where I went all the way to New York and I i was like i'll just figure it out and i was like barking for myself like i was trying to get people off the street to go to the club yeah and say that they came to see me really did it work one time i did get a couple of people to do it they were like okay i and it was because i did a tour at nbc i did like the NBC Studios tour. We went to 8-H or whatever. I looked at Conan's set or whatever. You actually were just a tourist at the tour.

Yeah, I was a tourist at NBC. Right. And it was like two British ladies. And I was like, if you like comedy, you could go to Stand Up New York tonight and tell them you're there to see me. And they're like, sure. And they did it. Well, you know, I think I'd seen you once once before somewhere and then i watched the whole special the other night oh god what's it called again the special it's called i hate myself good so i said

but like i watched it and i've been watching the specials lately because i've been a kind of sad and um i i enjoyed it because like i it's weird you're sort of an unassuming guy you seem like a a wiry little guy but you certainly you certainly uh know how to fucking uh you know hit those jokes with a bat oh thank you i appreciate that i was worried about where that was going and um thanks for watching it i mean it makes me nervous you're the first person to see it i mean literally outside of um my i guess manager and agent whoever like did the editing um no it was uh it was great it's what's interesting is how much of it you know sadly

uh kind of plays as nostalgia already like flying flying on planes you know you're doing this whole bit about planes which is you know that's something we talk about because we spend so much of our life on planes but now like six months into this fucking shit show it's kind of like oh i remember yeah you could just lay down on planes and it was a nice thing to do and fly you know yeah it's strange i've done a couple sets here in new york like outdoor shows and you naturally set up jokes by being like i was on the subway the other day and you have to be like i was on the subway six months ago yeah so they're having outdoor shows like who's doing that so there's a bunch of shows now it's pretty wild man like uh the other day like my friend of mine had three sets. So Stand Up New York, aforementioned Stand Up New York,

has shows in Central Park, Battery Park, and Astoria Park. No microphone. They're just essentially picnicking in Central Park. No microphone? No, and you just stand there and kind of yell at people that are picnicking, basically. But they didn't come for the show? You're just sort of imposing?

No, no, they did come for the show. So they're aware for the show? You're just sort of imposing? No, no. They did come for the show. So they're aware of the show. And Stand Up New York has little, almost like political signs. You know those little, you stick them in the grass? Yeah. But instead of saying Biden, it says Stand Up New York. Right. And they will kick people out if they're in that space.

Like there was a guy, the first show I did there, there was a guy like laying on a blanket napping. And they were like, excuse me, this is the stage for our show. So he had to move. But the people are actually coming. Like they have a big email list. And I guess people are aware of it. And they're, you know, entertainment starved.

So there's actually, there was like 50 people there. And I heard one show had like 90 people. No mic. No mic. So you got to just project out to the folks it's a little strange no i mean it seems nice seems intimate seems like a theater uh but you know my but my thinking is like are they still that fucking cheap they can't find a little setup that you can have outdoors so you guys can talk through a microphone i don't know maybe there's um noise

ordinances or something i don't know what Maybe there's noise ordinances or something. I don't know what's going on. But then there's a couple drive-in shows, too, at Bel Air Diner. You used to live in Astoria. I live here, and it's a couple blocks from here, and they're all in their cars, and they flash their lights if they like a joke. Now, see that? Did you do that one? I've done it a couple times.

Now, I did the first one. I was on the first New York City show. You can't hear laughter. Well, now they have some outdoor table set up, like under a little tent, sort of, or under a, whatever you call it, like a canopy or something. So you can hear those people. So you can hear about 15 people, and then you can see people smiling through their windshield. about 15 people and then you can see people smiling through their windshield huh now that that doesn't sound satisfying to me i mean maybe you know you're sort of like uh you know nuts and bolts joke guy so you can just kind of plow through your shit you know and just take the hit without you know addressing it but i would feel that it would be difficult to pace yourself and sort of an odd exercise.

It's really strange. And the nice thing the other night, so I've done a few now. Yeah. Of just outdoor or whatever. And I've done a bunch of Zoom shows, which are very strange also. And now these for money. Some of them are money. Like Comedy Cellar did their first zoom show and they pay because

they're the comedy seller yeah and stand-up new york did pay a spot pay for the central park thing right and and so did uh the bel-air diner actually oh yeah i guess all of them are some of the zoom shows are not but so the zoom shows like what how is that do you tell people to take their mutes off so you can hear them laughing, or how does it work? It's really strange, but I'm oddly getting used to it. Well, that's what I was going to say just real quick was at the Bel Air this past weekend was the first time I've done like seven or eight sets outside or on Zoom. That was the first time that I was like, oh, that fucking joke ate it.

That sucked. It was the first time having a feeling of like shit. And for the most part, though, though you're like there's no judgment i can't judge this set or whatever i'm just getting up and saying things remembering them but i mean are you doing it because you're you're starved to be on stage or or like it is a feeling of obligation is it the money what you know that's a good question that i haven't really put that much thought into i guess it was Like, is it just a feeling of obligation? Is it the money? What? You know, that's a good question that I haven't really put that much thought into. I guess it was the outdoor one.

Some of it's just to see, like, ah, let's see what this is like. I guess it's another form of stand-up. And, yeah, I guess just to the same reasons. Yeah, that we go out and we did shows every night at one in the morning for nobody yeah you're if you if you're born with the compulsion and it's inside of you you don't ask those questions it's just you just do it it's like oh there's a show i'll do it where is it okay yeah basically that's it i mean some and some of them have paid and i'm like great i'll make a few bucks and um the the one in theoria is down the street from my house, and the one in Central Park, my wife was on.

She's a comic, and I was like, I'll go with you. And then they threw me up there. You did a guestie in Central Park at the No Mike show? Yeah. So I'm not doing indoor shows yet. I've canceled all those or postponed those for now because I'm trying to do the right thing so where's this special going to be on?

YouTube, that's the new thing it's a YouTube and how does that work? so you shot it over at the Comedy Cellar's outlet? yeah, I shot it at the Village Underground and who produced it? was it a Comedy central or a comedy

seller joint what is it no it's just me i just um i just hired a guy to shoot it the comedy seller gave me the room and the door because they're extremely generous and uh i just hired my own film crew to edit it and make it and um that was it and you had bobby kelly bring you up and now sean donnelly was the host and sean donnelly yeah and it was just a regular old night at the the cellar i mean that's what i wanted it to be was initially was like let's just do a night at the cellar because that's those are fun do you find i find sometimes if you have fans there comedy fans are are tricky sometimes because they listen to all the podcasts and they begin to want inside jokes and they know you and they have heard stuff and they i don't know i like i like random

audience members um but it was a tuesday night and like the day of they're like hey we got 40 reservations so uh we had to kind of push to fill it in and we did and it was great yeah i mean i don't know i i mean it's i think it's bold to yeah i mean you must be pretty used to that room i don't think either of those rooms are that particularly easy they feel like challenging rooms to me and especially if it's just their fucking people that come in there it's hit or miss so you were able to bring in half a house of people that know you yeah there ended up being a bunch of people that knew me and everyone tweeted and did the thing and pushed it so there was a lot of like comedy fans and i got enough

fans in new york to do we did two shows that the first show was like a, yeah, like enough people, probably half the room was fan fans. And then maybe the second show was like a fifth of the room. Yeah. But I think that's a good mixture of people that are really rooting for, but sometimes, you know, you get in your head.

I'm like, if they're fans, they've probably seen me. They've heard it. They need something weird. They're comedy nerds. They're not going to laugh. And then I misjudged and I realized that they're actually fans because they love you and they want you to do well. And so they're hyped up and they end up making a great audience. Yeah, that's the worst thing that we do with our heads is that we just make these weird assumptions because we're so hard on ourselves.

So, you know, we're tired of our own shit and if we're doing old shit there's you know you're pretty sure that like well without saying i'm tired of it you just put it on them they're like they gotta hate this one they they heard when i came up with this on the podcast right and they're gonna judge you know but they're they don't that you know no one's thinking about us as much as we are. And, you know, they're happy to be part of the event. Yeah, of course. And but I think if anyone hears a joke for a second time, they're like that. He's doing the thing.

He's setting it up like it just happened. He's full of shit. And that's my own projection. You know, like the comedy fan is not all of a sudden you're the revelation that they realize like they're not making this up. I mean, but that's how you feel. I mean, you get in your head and you start to create. Well, yeah, I mean, well, it's just sort of like, you know, it's like, how do I feel about hearing a joke a second time? I don't know. You know, and then a lot of times people oddly, you know, if you think about people like Gaffigan, but this is how we judge ourselves.

I mean, you know, all people want to hear him do his Hot Pockets hot pockets you know for a decade and and it was the bane of his existence but but that's not how we think about it i mean i've thrown away so much material that nine people heard on a show that no one fucking watched that i worked a half a year on yeah totally i mean i've had that with like can i do this on Conan? Because I did it on Live at Gotham. And you're like, nobody memorized your Live at Gotham set. Nobody. I think you said it at one point on this podcast. I think I remember it was you saying it about like, hey, could you guys, I know some of you have been around for years, but could you let the rest of these folks just catch up? You might have to hear another bit you heard from some YouTube video that you guys watched, but let everyone else catch up to this.

Well, that's the thing, man. If you think about the time while I'm older than you, when I think about, I've done six, seven hour, hour and a half between five CDs and four or five specials or whatever. But nobody listened to some you know to the first you know eight you know there's like eight there's like eight hours worth of my material some of it pretty good that most people have never fucking heard before and it's just there on the fucking garbage heap right yeah people want to hear that stuff and they want to hear it over and over again maybe i mean it's like i have you ever thought about like you know i'm just going to cover my first album i'm going to go out and cover my 2002 release well sometimes comics like i know like gary gullman's a friend

of mine and one of my favorite comedians he had that uh great bit about abbreviations and yeah he he made into this documentary he watched about doc abbreviations and it's like a nine minute bit it's one of the best bits i've ever heard yeah but i remember seeing him do like a 40 second version of that in 2003 right where he just had the first couple things and it was whatever and i was like that's clever and then so obviously he circled back to a notebook or something it was like oh this never became anything and then with more skill made it a great thing so i'm sure we have premises from 20 years ago that could be gold now that's probably true i used to go on conan all the time with half baked shit because i do i'd always do panel and they'd get stuck for guests and they'd call me

up on a day's notice and go can you do it and i And I'd be like, I got some stuff. And there's so much stuff that I did on Conan that later became actual jokes. It's embarrassing. Well, that's not embarrassing. That's terrific. I know, but by the time you do the final joke, it's like, you know, I don't know. Oh, I see what you mean.

You know, it wasn't as funny as it could have been when I did it originally. But when you do panel, you can get away with a premise. You know, you can't when you're doing a stand-up, but you can kind of panel you can get away with a premise you know you can't when you're doing a stand-up but you can kind of throw the funny thing out there in conversation right i remember hedberg did that on his second album where he did an entire joke again just to add a tag and he was like i didn't want to deprive you guys of that line that i came up with after and it's great it works and nobody i'm sure i don't think twitter was around them but i don't

think anyone was mad at them i don't think anybody really does get mad and i think the people that get mad are just trolls or or they're just you know mildly disappointed obsessive fans and you know that's their lot in life it's like you know those people that are like i know everything you do it's like well i'm sorry i i don't i'm probably going to disappoint you eventually right yeah they're unhappy people i'm trying to remind myself that anyone on social media that's taking the time to write something negative is probably unhappy and i should you know pray for them or something i don't know i i mean i've been that guy haven't you that's writing mean stuff to people yeah um maybe in response if somebody was mean, I would justify my anger.

I just had it a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I've been that guy. But I've never initiated. I've never had him. I've never watched a movie that I hated and tried to find the address of the director to let him know that I thought it sucked. To leave it.

You know what I mean? To leave it, to TP his house or something. Yeah. I've never, you know, written to Scorsese and been like, Hey, this one wasn't quite as strong as good fellas.

What was up with the departed? Yeah. So you're from Boston. Yeah. I started in Boston. Yeah. But you grew up in Boston. I grew up South of Boston,

Whitman, Massachusetts. How is it? How do I not know that? I've, I've fucking played every dumb bar in in the guide in new england and i don't know where whitman is it's a small town i mean there's probably only been a couple a handful of comedy shows there it's next to brockton if you

know brock oh sure nick's comedy stop sure i know brockton yeah is there still a Knicks in Brockton? No, I don't think so. No, I think that's gone. There might have been in January. I mean, certainly there's not right now, but there might have been in February. So you grew up in Whitman near Brockton. How big is that town? Just tiny? Small, small town.

It does have the claim as the place that the chocolate chip cookie was invented uh-huh so we have that going and it's also people actually stopping by for that i mean is that a draw or no just a no i don't think anybody knows about it or cares is there a place that makes cookies there there used to be tollll House, like the Toll House factory or something was there, but it burned down before I moved there. Toll House, isn't that a keyboard thing? Or no, is that a separate thing? Maybe. I got to be honest, I'm regretting the chocolate chip cookie thing now. I got nothing on it. Got no information. I got no info. That's my one sentence I say, and usually people go, oh, wow, that's cool. So what kind of town is it?

I'm trying to picture it. Is it like, that's not near Fall River, right? No, it's a little ways. I mean, relatively, it's near there. I think it's probably a half hour from Fall River, maybe. Whitman's like a real small town. It's also, its other claim to fame is it's the used car capital of Massachusetts. That'll give you a Springsteenian image of the town.

A lot of used car dealerships kind of deal? Yeah. I think there's like 12 or 14 used car dealerships in a town that's, I think, like four and a half square miles. I feel like people from Whitman are going to really nail me on Twitter for not having my facts straight. But yeah, it's like a real small, you know. My parents always say they grew up closer to the city and they just drove south until they could afford a house. That's basically how they ended up there.

Oh, so what was your folks' business? My dad worked at a hospital. He's like in charge of purchasing. Like he, you know, buys the gowns and whatnot. It's like an administrative job at a hospital. And my mother was sort of a secretary at an insurance company. So your dad's still in that racket?

He is, yeah. So he's still working. So you've got to be busy trying to get that PPE for the COVID people. I think he is, yeah. I think so. I don't know. You don't talk to him anymore?

I talk to him. We don't not talk. We didn't get in a fight and stop talking, but he's a real quiet kind of Boston Irish Catholic kind of guy. Just real, very stoic. Really? There's not a lot of, I always joke. Even if you asked him direct informational questions,

it would be tough to get an answer? Exactly, yeah. My mother always jokes, she goes, when we go on a car ride, I bring a book. He's a tough nut. Great guy book he's a tough he's a tough nut great guy funny guy yeah but uh you're not he's not he's not a giver i always joke i did letterman and people say wow man your dad what did he what did your dad say and i was like nothing and they're like i know he's but what did he say and i'm like no actually nothing he said zero

things um but they come to the shows and laugh i mean they're good people they laugh so you have like a nine brothers and sisters or no no small it's a just one older sister but my mother has four siblings and they all have kids so it was always a big fan there's always 20 or 30 people around irish huh irish scottish yeah wow but like was it were they into the Irish thing? Not too much. My dad was Irish, but his family wasn't around as much. It was always my mother's family, the Campbells. Oh. So more Scottish, but definitely everyone gets together.

We drink, and we drink hard and heavy, and it was always together. The idea of people talking about family reunions, I'm like, that's always been mind blowing to me. I'm like, we were together every Saturday and Sunday, every weekend of my life. No need for a reunion. They're just here. Is there like six days between reunions? Yeah, exactly.

Everyone lived 10 miles apart. Everyone was together and it's still very insular. It's still like that? Oh, definitely. I'm the only one that left and moved and I come back and it's a lot of like how's new york yeah there he is yeah exactly exactly and they're looking at you like you're like you're different somehow and then they tell you you're not different

and then you've got to humble yourself or be humbled it's a lot of that kind of feeling and um it's yeah it's definitely shaped a lot of my uh so are they boston irish would you say your your dad's for people yeah i suppose so yeah i think so yeah they have a definite new england vibe it's a very new england but not hard they're not hard boston irish no no there's an accent like you would notice an accent but they don't sound like they're not like yeah yeah you're fucking yeah yeah yeah it's a little more um subtle they definitely would be someone would say what's up why are you guys talking like that but they're not they're certainly not intimidating they're not like goodwill hunting right you know boston not like that character that casey affleck, Dunkin' Donuts guy. Have you seen that? That bit

is so fucking funny, dude. Cut your nails, kid. I love that. That's great. He really gets it, doesn't he? It's great. No, yeah, we don't have that, but it's definitely that vibe. Yeah. It's a lot of drinking and yelling and joking right so when you started when did you start knowing that you were going to do uh that you wanted to do the comedy always i always feel like it feels like trite to be as long as i can remember mark right i wanted to be but um it really was like i think as early as like third grade and the story always sounds so like cheesy and like made up to me, or maybe I'm just self-conscious,

but I watched, I think it was, uh, doing it again or jamming in New York. One of those George Carlin's on HBO later, George Carlin. Yeah. 1990.

And so I was eight and like third grade. And I remember they played like the intro, they played clips from all of his thing. And I remember the rat shit, fat shit, dirty old twat. And it was just the idea of what he's saying this crazy shit i mean that was my idea of comedy was like saying insane shit and i remember him talking about dan quayle and margaret thatcher and i didn't know who any of the people were but i was like oh i can tell this is great

right right right yeah no yeah that feeling of excitement like are we allowed to do this yeah it was insane how can a grown-up be talking like this yeah it was cool and fun and insane and then um i was a kid late 80s early 90s when it was really booming so it was vh1 i would watch in the morning and a and evening of the improv and comedy central started to come around and HBO. So it was like- Comedy everywhere. I was just obsessed with it. And then Bill Cosby too, like we got together. Like I remember my family,

and this is still so cool to me, would go and like rent like a Louis Anderson or a Cosby. And then we would eat dinner and like the VHS would sit on top of the TV. Like we're gonna fucking take that out as soon as we're done eating, we're taking it out. And I remember thinking that was like amazing that this dude, and it was like pink circles,

like that neonish writing. And I'm like, oh man, we're going to pop it in. And again, like not knowing what the jokes are, but it was like, my family was loved it.

And I thought like, oh, that's a way to get attention from my family is the deeper meaning i guess is like this is the way to stand out but they they were comedy fans oh yeah they just they were very like um they loved it they loved louis anderson boosler uh cosby and carlin a little younger ones a little bit i thought i know my parents were as into carlin but my uncle i got an uncle who's like four years older than me and he really showed me a lot of the stuff oh yeah it was like that classic thing of like the as early as you understand that that could be a job you're like well obviously i want that job

yeah i don't know that i understood if it could be a job well i mean i knew that they yeah clearly they were entertaining people like i i don't know if i ever thought in terms of the job part i was just sort of like that looks looks like the best thing to do. Whatever that guy's doing, you know? Yeah, it seemed fun. And again, like through therapy and that stuff, I see that it was like, okay, that's how you get attention. Because, you know, that growing up for me, everybody was very serious in my family. And work sucked and raising kids was a

lot of work and everything was shitty except the weekends you'd drink and watch comedy and then it was fun and we'd go back to life being shitty again so i think i thought oh i could be that guy that's makes it fun right but that but shitty how just like you know not much passion in the work everybody's just sort of like you do it to get by so you can enjoy yourself on Saturday. Yeah, that kind of shitty. Like just commute and desk work and, you know, driving the kids to school didn't seem to be very pleasurable to anybody that I was around. No one seemed to be doing anything they actually wanted to be doing. Right.

Yeah. doing anything they actually wanted to be doing right yeah and that um that was built into me of like even as a really young kid being like well that sucks yeah i'm not gonna do that why are they not happy with what they're doing yeah why don't they do this why don't they do something about this is how i felt when i was young and then i'm like as we're recording this i'm sitting in front of a bruce springsteen poster then i got to an age where bruce springsteen basically made a career out of writing about that about your family about yeah about my family about the idea of people getting stuck in things that they don't want to do and then that combination made me really like the combination we gotta get out of this town man i was like one of those guys

you know combination of stand-up and Bruce. You're like, we only live once. This is it. Yeah, exactly. We got to get out. And that was the feeling, basically. So your childhood, it wasn't like abusive or weird. It was emotionally detached and slightly miserable.

Yeah. I would say it was a good childhood. It's weird i'm someone that deals with that thing where i have severe anxiety and panic disorder and alcoholism and depression and all these things and i don't have for a long time i beat myself up because i didn't have the the right thing to point to for it where i was like i was never molested my parents were together we had enough money look now as an adult i realized we didn't have very much money but we had certainly enough we weren't um whatever starving so i've always had that feeling of like

i'm a piece of shit for being anxious and and struggling because i had great parents and a great upbringing so i still don't know what's going on there. I think I could help. Please. Well, here's the thing. I don't know the nuances or the particulars, but just from what you were saying about your old man, you know, if there's emotional detachment where, you know, you're not getting the input or the nurturing or the sort of affirmation of your parent, that's a sort of, it's a slightly, it's a mild emotional abuse, right? So what happens when you're younger, and this is just the theory I locked into, is that, you know, whatever shortcomings your parents have, however, they're fucking you up because they're not paying attention correctly. You know, you're not going to blame them for what you just did.

You didn't do it again. Like you're going to blame yourself. Right. So you think like I must be fucked up because they're my parents. They're perfect. I must be the fucked up one. because they're my parents they're perfect i must be the fucked up one so in in the gap between their whatever their detachment is or however they're emotionally not treating you correctly you install a parent of your own in your own head that calls you an asshole your entire life

right yes that's what my therapist has been telling me for quite a while yeah very similarly and he'll i do do that a lot where i'll go, yeah, but this, and he's like that, you're doing it again. And I'm like, ah, shit. And, um, and also my mother's also a very, very anxious person, OCD. And so that's a lot of learned. So you got the detached guy and the panic guy. Yes, exactly. The detached father. And they're like, Oh, where are you going? Don't wait. Don't I, Oh my God, that. Yeah. A lot of lot of not so bad as that, but a lot of definite anxiety. And I think now and I've talked to my family about this now with young kids in the family. There's not a lot of separation between talking really serious matters about car wrecks and disease and people breaking into the house.

Right. Hearing that as a kid being like, someone's going to break in our house or whatever. So that's a lifelong fear and all those kinds of things. Oh, so she was just freaked out about everything. And, and, uh, that's not, it's sort of antithetical to nurturing, um, panic. Yeah, exactly. So a lot of, um, a lot of panic, anxiety and certainly longing for that attention, love and feeling of being protected. That's what my therapist always says is you feel unprotected in the world, which I do. Yeah, I have. I wish I had the longing for love more. Like I think my parents were so manipulative that that's how I sort of processed love.

So like now, like the idea of love it's like you're fucking with me it's not yeah it's like with an audience a girlfriend doesn't matter yeah I don't buy it you don't really like me right yeah yeah that's uh that's my cross to bear I never believe the love yeah I think I deal with that a little bit yeah too my therapist has to go well your wife married you. She did commit to being with you for life. And you're like, yeah, but I think, I don't know. She's running a con of some kind.

I mean, yeah. Yeah, something's up. But yeah, that's a lot of the feeling for sure. So did comedy, yeah yeah i often wondered that like you know because i was compelled early too like to you know when i was 11 or 12 and i didn't certainly didn't know how to pursue it as a job and you know even when i was in college it still didn't make sense to me i remember approaching paul reiser when i went to see a comedy show at this stand up or at the comic strip when I think I was in college. And I was like, I want to do comedy. How do you do it?

And he's like, well, you just got to do it. And I'm like, how the fuck does that mean? You know, there was no. But by the time you got in there, there was actually there were there was a path. There was a whole community of people trying to do it that you could go find fairly easily in boston yeah it was weird so i feel like now the way people talk was that was sort of i started in 2000 and it sounds like that was sort of like a a dip spot because obviously it's been sort of booming in the last few years. And then, you know, the dip like, you know, depending on what city you're in, the dip has been going on since the late 80s. You know, like, you know, like I was in Boston in. Eighty eight. So that's when I started working doing stand up.

But the thing was in Boston, it didn't matter that there was a dip because you were doing one nighters. So there was three companies that booked, you know, million one nighters all over and there was Knicks in town. So it wasn't like it was a comedy boom, but you could go to Brockton and fucking play a, you know, a hotel lobby.

You know what I mean? So that was the way it was then. Yeah. So I, yeah, I started in 2000 and I similarly didn't know, uh go, really. And then I was walking like I had just graduated high school and didn't had no plans to go to college or anything. And you had never done it before. for my friend's band because they knew I wanted to be a comedian

and it was a little different. I went up and this is like embarrassing but hilarious. I had a bag of trick. That was a prop act. Right.

And I had a raw hamburger bun and I asked a guy in the crowd, what's your name? And he said, whatever, Steve. And I said,

nice to meet you. And I threw a raw burger patty at him. Yeah. Not at him but like to his feet, you know? Wow.

And then I had a green lei. green go over yeah i didn't hit but i had some um i had some high school buddies there that thought it was funny because it was ridiculous didn't didn't hit maybe like did you because you would have had to hold the meat up and then throw it right there yeah yeah but you probably didn't do that you probably just panicked it's funny it's funny you said that because i do remember now after this show people saying like we didn't know what that was yeah right yeah they were just like what was that happened you got a big plan in your head and then you rush through it and it doesn't land and you know it's it's a weird moment right and yeah it's it's just completely weird and then i ripped off george carlin had that old poem about his hair

yeah you know and i wrote one about the word fuck it was like fuck is a word often heard often slurred it was like this you know carlin rip off and um it was i mean i probably did like two and a half minutes or something and then brought out my friend's band. Yeah, probably too fast and just sort of like, yeah, but I mean, it's weird. That's what we got to do. You know, there's no way, there's no way to be good at it at the beginning. It's just terrifying and stupid.

And, you know, you just want to get through that three minutes and like, fuck, man, I did, I just, if I really put my mind back there it was just nothing but panic and he'd spend the entire day or week just like i gotta do three minutes on saturday you know it's a nightmare yeah it didn't make any sense but you had to um do it it was strange and i was a kid i was like 18 i just graduated high school a few weeks ago. So they just set up the commuter rail, which is like the train directly from Whitman to Boston. So I was like walking around Boston just aimlessly. And I happened to walk over by Fenway. There was like a Howard Johnson's and it said open mic Wednesday. It was like a Chinese restaurant.

And I've called in like the yellow, and it was like an Asian guy. I won't do the voice to spare everybody, but he was like, you know, come in Wednesday. I could barely understand him, and I was like, great. And I thought, all right, I got a gig. This is going to be better. This is like an adult. This is a real comedy. Yeah.

And it was called Chop's Lounge, and that's where I actually started in like October 2000. Chop's Lounge. Chop's Lounge. By Fenway. Yeah, right next to Fenway. At the Howard Johnson's next to Fenway. At the Howard Johnson's next to Fenway.

Yes. I can't picture that. Is that an old Howard Johnson's? Well, now it's gone. Now it's like a really hipster bar. That whole neighborhood. I don't know when the last time you were in the Fenway area, but it's completely changed in the last three years.

Oh, yeah? Yeah, there's like high-rise buildings and like really cool burger joints and all kinds of bars and rooftops it's like it looks unrecognizable and i've only been gone for i guess i've been gone 13 years now so this was the bar at howard johnson's near fenway and who was hosting that fucking nightmare guy named larry lee lew. I don't know him. He probably came around after you, but he did like old vaudevillian jokes and played the piano, like a boogie-woogie piano.

He was a combination of, I guess, Jerry Lewis and the old vaudeville jokes. And he would do a lot of like, you know. Isn't he an old guy? I mean, he was old to me. Now looking back, he was like 52 because he did a joke he'd say i'm a 52 year old pothead but to me i was 18 he was like an antique i thought he was an old

man larry lewis huh it sounds like he might have been around when i was there uh i think he was new i think he had just kind of started oh late late in life but it was like a true open mic every whoever showed up went on and and there was some good comics there. Dan Mintz, you probably know. Yep. He was always there, and some other people. That's where he started? That's where Dan started?

I believe so. He was around. I think he was a Harvard guy, so he was always there. And then Dan Levy is another L.A. guy that was always there. Yeah, I know Dan Levy. Yeah, the other Dan Levy, another L.A. guy that was always there. Yeah, I know Dan Levy. Yeah, the other Dan Levy, right? Yes. Eugene Levy's kid and Dan Levy, who's a TV writer.

Yeah, I like Dan. I like both of them, but I know Dan. Sure. So he would be there, and then there was a lot of just crazy people, like actual crazy people that would go up, and I was like a kid with jokes who spent my day trying to write jokes. And then there was some old psychos. And then there was some Boston veterans would show up.

Teddy Bergeron would show up. Teddy, Teddy. Hello, Teddy. Yeah. He had a boom box. He would record his set with like a boom box with a tape deck on it.

That's my son. He'll drop it. Yeah. Teddy had some of the best fucking jokes. Oh, yeah. I mean, like, what a sad old fucker. But I'll tell you, man, did you listen to that live one I did with him? Like, it was kind of astounding because, you know, Teddy's story, and I'm sure you've heard some version of it, is just horrifying.

And, you know, it's just it's astounding that he's alive. And he's a very sort of like a sad, it's a sad story. But what was really interesting is I found him, I tracked him down to do a live WTF and he wasn't easy to find. He doesn't like have a phone. I had to call somebody that knew him or a relative. I don't remember how I got him. Right. And I hadn't seen him forever. And he's in the dressing room for WTF, you know, and he's in sweats. And he's like, you know, I'm doing I'm working on a new thing about the about Mother Teresa and the pope. And, you know, maybe I'll try that. And I'm like, I don't know.

I did. You're already sucked into this nightmare codependent Teddy world in seconds. And I hadn't seen him in 20 years. And we get out there on stage though, dude. And, you know, people don't know him anymore, really, you know? And a lot of my audience wouldn't know him at all. And he's trying his new stuff and I see him, you know, sweating it out. And I know there's no way he could have tested it or anything. And then he's got all those, I knew he had all those great jokes about you know his father you know so i go like so when you grew up your father was

what was he like he said my father and he just he like he just went into those bits dude and they killed and it was like it was like almost moving you know like these bits that have been around for decades and they and they were so well honed and so well written and so personal and perfect. And they just he just started doing them and they just were like it was like no one had ever heard them before. It was a beautiful moment. Yeah. No, he's he's amazing. I've tried hard to find old footage of him. I think there's a set of him on the old Letterman show that looks real weird. It's not great uh yeah whatever

quality right yeah when he would get it together and do i'm sure the same bits that he did in 1982 that i saw in 2001 like there's no santa claus and she's on a wire exactly yeah that bit was like magical i mean it was great now he had one of my favorite jokes ever was the uh you know hockey players are tough you know that joke? Hockey players are tough. They get, you know, hit in the face with a puck. They'll get 15 stitches, come out and play the third period. Baseball players, those guys aren't tough. He goes, you always watch the game.

They go, here's Ozzie Taylor steps to the plate. He missed the first half of the season. He was frightened by a small child last Halloween. Yeah, it's funny it's beautiful so they would who were some of the other veterans that would drop by that was like tony v maybe occasionally but most of those guys didn't touch that place because it was like this was like low level open mic open mic but then i started doing um dick doherty's comedy vault on sunday nights then you'd see tony v and um all those guys kevin knox was a big part of the the scene then and then he ran the

monday at the comedy connection and that was like the big to me there was a time in my career where monday night if you could get to the comedy connection which was their like new talent night that was like the tonight show at that point in my career. And Kevin Knox hosted it. Oh, so Noxy. So you were there before he died and before Loretta got sick. Like those guys started with me, you know, or like they were kind of around my generation. I remember, you know, when Noxy started and those guys, because I was in Boston, like, I guess I was there in 88. And I was, you know, I moved to New York in 89. But I had to go up there every weekend to work. So I was

I was in Boston 89 through 91, 92. You know, working all those one nighters and Knicks and everything else. So all those guys were around that generation, you know? Yeah, it was great to be around those guys. Because like, I didn't know, I didn't know any of those guys. And like, it was great to be around those guys because I didn't know any of those guys. And I was one of the people that thought that the comedians were Bill Cosby and George Carlin and Rosie O'Donnell. That's a good point about Boston where you get this whole working class bunch that you wouldn't know. And you still wouldn't know them. I started with Joe Iannetti. I did open mics when I was in college with Iannetti.

And who else? Kevin or Brian Kiley. And, yeah, like, I mean, the guys who were doing open mics, Fred. Do you remember Simply Fred? Was he around when you were? He was probably. No. He just went by the name Fred.

It was like, yeah. There were some other ones. I don't know what happened to him. Yeah, I was a big comedy connection guy and doing all those one-liners you talked about. That was VFWs and firehouses and KFCs, or KFC, I should say. That was my comedy.

And I'm still nostalgic about those gigs. Those are some of my best sets I've ever had were in firehouses and VFWs. Well, it's interesting that when you pay your dues like that you know you really you really are coming in cold like there's no i mean it's like guerrilla comedy like you know yeah they're only having comedy night there once a week or once a month or whatever the fuck it is it's not a comedy club. And if you're opening, it's like, you just walk up to nothing.

You've got to make something of it. And all the headliner guys would grab you and be like, don't do anything about the room because you couldn't do any material. I couldn't be like, look at this chandelier. Cause they're like, I'm taking that first 20 minutes. Yeah.

Cause they're going to be all trash. Yeah. They're doing 45 and they want to get out as easy as possible yeah exactly so it was definitely going up cold and you had to have jokes and you had to have them fast because they were just you know red-faced firemen yeah like who's this fucking queer yeah exactly you had to really uh fight for it and um but it was it was great i mean i loved it i mean to me i was like i mean i'm in showbiz that's all i ever wanted was to be a comic it was a hell of a way to pay your dues to do those kind of rooms i mean like because i that's how i started you know on those two-man

shows and you know you you really get tough i mean it's like by the time you get to a comedy club to fuck you're like oh my god this is easy this is great yeah and a lot of those shows they would go up and there'd be a picture of like a nine-year-old girl and they'd be like this is for susan who got hit by a van and she passed away and then like her friends would come up and they would do that like literally do that stuff and then they would be like here's comedy it's like a cliche but that would happen all the time it was it was i didn't do so many of those as i did like poncho villas and lemonster you know where you drive out to a restaurant in lemonster and it was and that was one of the good ones or the taunton regency hotel you know they'd had a full weekend gig you know in the conference room and those were good ones you know that in the conference room. And those were good ones, you know? It's crazy. Yeah, some of them were fun.

But yeah, there was a lot of crazy gigs and hell gigs that now I look back and I'm like, oh, that was really fun. Yeah, it's a very specific way to pay your dues. I look back and I literally cannot understand how I managed it. I was a neurotic, angry, uncomfortable Jewish guy driving around the New England countryside

performing for fucking irish townies you know i remember when nicks and saugus opened you know oh my god it was uh yeah i i don't have nostalgia for that i i i have i think ptsd that's my experience um that's funny nicks nicks and saugus at the kowloon. Yeah. That, I would always joke, that's one of the few rooms that has a detailed police officer in the showroom. This is the uniformed cop with a handgun that he's assigned to be in the room,

which is always comforting. Nix was kind of rough, dude. The original Nix was still very much alive and intact and dug in when I started there. And it was really something to see, you know, you could kind of feel the whole dark history of Boston in that place. Yeah, it's a tough, those are tough rooms, but it was fun. I mean, to me, it was like I saw a lot of, I learned a lot of things to do and not to do a lot of ways not to pursue a career and you start to slowly see like oh there's a lot of anger and bitterness in the middle of that while i was up there they made

the movie when stand-up stood out which i'm sure you did you see that movie was that the one with a lot of fran solomita in it yes yeah he made it yeah and they did like a documentary about all these guys and how they all had fun and it was great but they did too much booze and drugs and they ended up fucking up their careers and then i watched it while i was doing the same thing and didn't even heed the warning i was like that movie's great oh so you were uh wait you're sober i'm sober now yeah so you were a boozy fucking kid yeah i was a big booze kid. Yeah, through my 20s, yeah. Really?

Yeah, I really got after it. It was bad. And then you copped to being an alcoholic? Do you do the thing? I do, yes. Oh, okay. Oh, shit. So what had to happen for that to go? So like early on when you're doing the gigs in boston you're just getting fucked up yes so like i mean a lot of the driving gigs i

went early early on my first like year or two i would be like i don't drink before a show i thought i'd have this i wanted to be like this disciplined you know and then after a while you're like well i have a beer during the show i was underage for a lot of that too i started when i was 18 yeah so it'd be more like get fucked up after and i still had like high school friends that were all the age where you get crazy drunk and stuff and then eventually you drink i drink during the show and then it became a thing of like let me see how drunk i can get during the show it doesn't take too long to get to get there and then um yeah i mean then i started doing the road and then the road of course that was like this is like heavenly because i'm in a hotel or a condo across the street yeah you don't have to drive and you drink for free and you can just crawl back to your hotel

yeah and then and then it became the thing and i also had that um romanticism of it of like that's what you do i'm like an artist man you fucking you get fucked up like you're a drama drunk yeah you did that thing huh yeah i fancy myself like an ira i'm like i'm like you know sure dylan thomas exactly yeah so i thought i was one of those guys and except i wasn't writing any jokes and yeah wasn't going anywhere right so what what that what did your bottom look like um there was a few like i had things that should have did your bottom look like? Um, there was a few, like I had things that should have been a bottom. Like, I mean,

I've told this story in a lot of podcasts, but one night in New York, I blacked out. I was a blackout guy and I ended up shitting in a girl's bedroom, like on her floor and urinating also. Oh, that's great. Like in the middle of the night.

Yeah. Uh, like actually it was actually like in the middle of the night yeah uh like actually it was actually like in the morning which is strange uh you thought you were in a bathroom probably i thought i was in the bathroom i i think i mean i have to presume because that wasn't my sense of humor right so um no i remember when i was drinking i i once peed on the floor in the bedroom and i and i was pretty sure i was in the bathroom but i wasn't yeah it was that kind of deal and um the women it was two girls that were living there they had already left for work which i didn't realize because when i woke up and realized what i had done i texted them and i was like oh my god i'm so sorry and they were like no problem you were fine it was funny and i was

like man these fucking girls party and i was like jesus and then um i happen to be going to seattle the next day i mean it's a crazy story i was going to seattle the next day for the seattle comedy festival which is a month long yeah and i ended up missing my flight because i was so fucked up and i flew across the country with like shit on my pant leg and the whole thing and um when i landed and turned my phone back on i had a text being like we had no idea what you were talking about this is crazy you're a piece of shit and then i was like oh that's more like it that seems like a more uh a better response you didn't even clean it up i cleaned up what i could but i was i had to run so like the big the main pieces i got but there was still like a urine and some traces of it. Sure. Sure.

And, um, that was the end of that. No, that, that's, what's crazy. That still didn't end it. I remember landing in Seattle and I was like, I gotta take a break from drinking. And I was like, well, I'm not going to stop drinking. So I might as well drink tonight. And I kind of kept going. So it was kind of one of those bottoms.

You just kind of, I'll just hang out down here for a while. Yeah, sure. And then, and then, uh, I took a couple swings at it. When I first moved to New York, I had some days, 20 days, and then. You going to meetings, though? Yeah, I did a couple times. So you moved to New York, but you were going at it in Boston. When did you move to New York?

How far in, like, when did that start? I moved in April of 2007. So I was about seven years into comedy when I move to New York how far in like when did that start I moved in April of 2007 so I was about seven years into comedy when I moved to New York to Astoria yeah I just kept going and getting you know and I would drive back all the time because I showed up to New York I had opened I was opening for DePaulo on the road and I was I had opened for Dane Cook in these big spaces and I knew I was friends with Quinn, and I knew Dave Attell, and so when I showed up, I thought people were going to be really excited that this guy who knows Nick DiPaolo and Colin Quinn just came to town.

How did you know Colin? I knew Colin just through a gig. I opened for DiPaolo, and the two of them had a gig, and I met him through that and then somehow i i knew he was similar to me in that um fashion so he's been very helpful to me in my sobriety oh yeah yeah it's interesting because i i did the um i like when i i watch guys especially guys i don't really know from New York, because New York is so like, you know, incestuous and insulated comedically that,

you know, like any generation, I can kind of see some of the influences. So it's always, for me, it's always fun to play like who, who, who got into this guy's head. Right. And, and, and I definitely identified Colin in, in you. Oh, well that makes me feel good. good i mean hopefully not to the point that i sound like him but no no no there's just there's like a slight on a couple of jokes there's a slight turn that i'm like what is that like that's sort of a colony thing you know and which is no it's not bad no there's definitely uh moments i mean i don't know if you still have that or maybe not but i'll write a joke and be like you know you write in your voice and you do it and i'm like

there's a moment where i'm like how did i come to that and i'm like ah that's that's this colin joke right or that's this to paulo sure sure this is that carlin thing one of the first guy one of the first gigs i ever did i opened for nick to paolo and he's really, he's like my age. He was just added a little, like it was a captain Knicks in a gunk with Maine. Well, I started open for Nick in oh six. This is a funny story.

My, I couldn't at the comedy connection. I was their guy. I would just open for all the people that were coming through and I was supposed to open for Nick and I i couldn't do the thursday because i had some private gig and so this other guy filled in that night and evidently that guy was in the green room with nick and he said uh hey uh how long you've been doing comedy and nick said shut up we're not girls we don't have to force a conversation he's like you can just sit there and so that guy called me and he's like hey man this week don't try to talk to this guy. He's crazy.

Yeah. So I said, OK. And I just sat in silence for like three nights, you know, six shows, never said a word. And at the end, Apollo goes, I like you. You keep to yourself and you got some jokes. You want to go on the road? And I said, sure. And so for like a year, I just would travel all over with Nick just silently. And eventually we started, you know, having arguments and fights and you know in love but yeah um but um yeah that that was like extremely helpful that the guy was like don't don't be yourself with them don't don't talk to the monster yeah but um yeah so yeah i mean he was like a big influence uh comedically um yeah as well sure but like i can definitely see that so then you like so you you got sober for good it stuck when how many times uh 2012 so what happened that time was just the same thing lingering around knowing like i got i knew very early in my drinking that i was like this is i don't think i'm supposed to be this isn't how people other people are drinking you know yeah and i always kept friends that were um

older and married so i always had that thing i'm not as bad as that guy right i was one of those guys and then um yeah i was i tried a couple times and so i knew about the thing and everything and um i started dating my now wife and she's so she's 11 years sober today as a matter of fact she had a couple years and she was willing to date me and so i kind of got closer to it that way and uh but kept drinking the way i was and it wasn't until like christmas 2012 and my brother-in-law his father had just passed and uh like days earlier and i was making jokes about it to him and i just remember him being like what are you what are you doing dude and having that that shame of you're kind of drunk i was drunk and kind of yeah because

something you know you think you're being funny or whatever yeah yeah sure and i remember him being like what are you doing i was like i don't know man i don't know and worse than like shitting in a girl's shoe and fucking hating myself and getting herpes was just somebody i love being like dude what is this and just being like fuck yeah i don't know i'm sorry that's what did it the insensitivity yeah that kind of moment of like i mean and a lot of other things my My career, I really hated myself. I was still featuring and I had never, I couldn't get on any TV or anything. I had the same material and just all that kind of shit.

Self-hatred. And yeah, so December 28th, 2012 was my last drink. Wow, that's great, man. Yes, it's nice. I mean, every bit of success I've had in relationships and comedy has come since then. But it's nice that you were able to be with a sober person who you were dating and still be a fuck-up, and she kind of stuck with you that long, so at least you didn't just jump in right at the beginning. Like, she let you kind of flop around for a while.

Yeah, it was about a year and a half. And she didn't give me like an ultimatum or anything. But she, I mean, she knew. I mean, we had drank together when she was still out. And she kind of knew. And I was pretty good about keeping it away from her. You think. Yeah, yeah.

So, and then she was like, great. And she didn't, you know, I was like, I'm sober. I was like doing that. And she was like, yeah. So, and then she was like, great. And she didn't, you know, I was like, I'm sober. I was like doing that. And she was like, okay. Like she wasn't like, she didn't get too excited about it. But, you know, I got in there and fucking got it done. It was great. So now you got like eight years in change or something?

Seven in change. It'll be eight in December. And that's great, man. That's so fucking good. It's better, right? Yeah, I love it. That's why, like, you know, for some reason, like so fucking good. It's better, right? Yeah. That's why I see, that's why like,

you know, for some reason, like, cause like, you know, I watched you and like, I don't, I know the difference between,

you know, a guy that came up the right way in standup comedy clubs, doing the real deal and like alt people. And, you know, you kind of look a little alty at first and then I'm listening to you. I'm like, this guy's got teeth, man. What the fuck is he about? Like, and this is now it's a, you know, it of look a little alty at first and then i'm listening to you i'm like this guy's got teeth man what the fuck is he about like and this is now it's you know it all

comes to uh it all comes to uh into it comes uh into clarity here you know oh you came up uh you came up with the old timers with the old monsters and there you go you were a little monster yourself and look at you yeah i mean well that's thank you i appreciate it but that's that that to me was um comedy in boston gross when i started was killing i mean that to me that was what people in boston valued more than anything i mean sometimes to a fault but that that was the most valued thing for the first six or seven years i was doing comedy was crushing yeah and so i was like j, I better be one of those guys. And now I've backed off of that a little bit of like, all right,

there can be some space to breathe and, you know. And then you toured with Louie too. You toured with Nick and Louie, huh? It's so funny because Nick and Louie used to live with each other in this fucking apartment Barry Katz owned, you know. Yeah. Oh, my God. Back in the day.

What a fucking disaster those days were. So, but you toured with him and you played the big rooms, huh? Yeah, I got to do that. So, I met Louie. I was at the cellar and he was sitting on the steps, fortunately, not like downstairs. So, I couldn't see him because if I had seen that he was there, I would have been like, oh, gee, and tried to. So, I was just kind of fucking around and he liked what I was doing. And then, yeah, we ended up chatting

and having the Boston thing and all that stuff. So you got to play Madison Square Garden? Yeah, I did the garden a couple times and did all the, the whole Europe thing and the private jet and stuff. It was pretty amazing. And back then he had a great audience. Yeah, it was huge.

I mean, it was like, the shows were all killer and we were flying private and it was like a dream it was insane i mean i got a funny garden story though it was one show that just wasn't great or they weren't loving me and i'm just struggling i'm doing like 20 minutes it's like 15 000 people a lot of them are trying to find their seats and you know you ever you know when you do a joke sometimes some one guy will laugh, and you're like, hey, this fucking guy gets it. Right. I almost did that at Madison Square Garden.

Like, fucking one guy in, like, 214 just, he goes, ah-ha. And there was a brief moment where I was like, this fucking, I was like, I can't do that in front of 15,000 people. This guy gets it over here. But, yeah, did the whole thing. I mean, it was wild. It was quite an experience. So what do you do?

So in general, where were you at before the lockdown? You're just out there headlining, and you and Mark Norman do a podcast? Yeah, so I do the podcast with Mark Norman, Tuesdays with Stories, which I've been doing for years. And we do that. And that does real well. I mean, relatively well to me. And I started another podcast, which is, I don't know if this is good or bad, but it's very much based on this one.

I wanted to have the conversations you were having, but it's called Mindful Metal Jacket. And it's about anxiety, therapy, all that kind of stuff. And I started doing that. And that's been really fun and meaningful to people that have emailed me and stuff, which is nice. And then I'm just like kind of a road dog. I'm doing about 40 weeks, all the, you know, Funny Bones and Madison and all those Dr. Grins and side splitters and all those gigs. Any of that stuff back on the docket or no, not yet? They all just keep getting moved right now.

Is that a baby? Do you have a baby? No, sorry. My wife just came in and our door is very squeaky. Oh, okay. But I was hoping it didn't pick up. Everything got moved? Everything just keeps getting pushed to next year.

So now my 2021 is starting to look decent, but I'm just trying not to do the indoor shit right now i don't want to yeah get sick part of that yeah so um and do you ever tour with your wife yeah she's i bring her on the road when i can and um yeah when i can it's nice it's working out you guys are doing good yeah i love it i mean it's great because it's you know you get to uh feel like home on the road and i get to get laid on the road it's nice that's great and clearly this was like the wrong time to have this conversation what else are you going to say no even if she was not here i would say it's great and um yeah i wish her a happy anniversary for me

i will i will do that On her sobriety. And to you too, congratulations. And the special was very funny. I got some solid laughs. And what are you doing for your anxiety? Do you have tools?

What do you do? Well, so now I do, I mean, the thing you mentioned helps a lot. And I got really into meditation. Really?

I've been meditating for a while, but I i got really into meditation um really i've been meditating for a while but i just got really into the sam harris has an app um waking up you know that guy sam harris i heard of him yeah he's great he has an app called waking up and there's like i highly recommend it there's a ton of shit on there like long interviews with uh meditation people but he has a introduction course. He does a lot of guided meditation, loving kindness meditations, half hour meditations. And I've gotten really, really into that.

And that helps a lot. And yeah, just a lot of reaching out and talking to friends and like-minded people's really helped. And therapy. I got a therapist that I love. And it's a full-time i love and it's it's a full-time job i mean it's a it's a constant combination of all those things to be even

sane yeah exactly yeah yeah i i might do i i've been dancing around the meditation idea for a while and i just recently since my girlfriend died i got into that yeah i'm not really a god person but i from being sober i would you know i would pray uh because i was told to do it and i find that you know in times of crisis i'll do it and it makes me feel better yeah i that stuff is really really helpful and it's funny because all of these things but especially that stuff to me is easy to forget and then you hear it again you're like fucking right it's right here like colin quinn is a guy i talk to a lot and he'll just say things that he said to me a million times and i'm like jesus fuck how did i yeah well that's right i forget that well

that's why we you know we have to stay engaged with the fucking program right because like all of a sudden you feel like shit and they ask you, whoever your guys are, they ask you, are you doing this? You're like, no. Are you doing this? I'm not. Did you go to a thing? I didn't.

So what do you think is going to happen? Thanks. Oh, yeah. Right. Right. Right. I heard someone say something great the other day. He said, you know, he talks to people

and they'll say, how are you doing? They say, good. And he goes, well, how are the people around you doing? This is a great tool to remember of like, I'm fine. And then you're like, everyone behind you is just fucking bleeding and crying. Yeah, who's the crying lady? Oh, her? Shit, I forgot about her.

Good point. All right, well, keep at it, man. It was great talking to you. Yeah, thanks a lot mark i appreciate it good talk i like that guy joe's special i hate myself will be available starting tonight at 9 p.m eastern on youtube i'm gonna play a little guitar for the original crew. Monkey and La Fonda. Boomer. The unsung heroes.

Meanie. Hissy. Moxie. Butch. Deaf Black Cat. Scaredy Cat. My original crew, Monkey and La Fonda. So now I will dump all of my love and attention into Buster Kitten

who's going to be overwhelmed by it. But I think ready for it. Because Buster Kitten was certainly neglected because of my old senior cats. And now it is Buster Kitten's time. I hope he stays healthy for a while. I'm going to bring him in to be checked. Because he had problems. He almost died from kidney failure

when he was like two. But now it's Buster's time. The time of Buster Kitten begins. Thank you. Shout out to the original crew. Boomer. Monkey. La Fonda.

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