WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1157 - Toni Collette

Episode Date: September 14, 2020

Toni Collette might be the first actor to tell Marc that, yes, she does learn about herself through the characters she plays. That's a lot of learning, considering the wide range of characters Toni has played over the years. Toni and Marc talk about how she grew into herself while starring in movies like Muriel's Wedding, The Sixth Sense, Hereditary and now in Charlie Kaufman's latest, I'm Thinking of Ending Things, a movie that left Marc asking a lot of questions (which he'll try to get Toni to answer). Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category,

and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers?

What the fucknicks? What the fuckadelics? What's happening? Are you holding up? What's happening there? What do you got going? Are you working on that shelf? Are you doing that woodwork?

Are you sanding? Are you screwing things into things? Are you putting things together? Are you cleaning things? I swear to God, the guy across the street is digging for rodents in the ground that I don't think are there. I think people are losing it. He's got the hose out. He's got the shovel out.

I got no rodents in my yard. I have a lot of birds. I sit on my porch, and I believe there's woodpeckers here is there woodpeckers in los angeles because i saw one he seemed to be he just didn't seem to be that engaged and then you just get into this waiting game it sometimes it's interesting you really have to to kind of go with the flow if you're expecting nature to entertain you you've got to take in the whole picture you got to be like all this is nice it's really about this sort of peace and quiet and flow but that bird that bird that he does

something and uh i'm just gonna i wish he would start doing it then he'll just he'll peck a second you're like that was it go man go and then you just wait and you can't seem to decide. And then it becomes a very aggravating show. And then you have to shift. You have to shift to a squirrel. But that's where you get. That's the live entertainment I'm dealing with. How are you guys doing? You all right?

Oh, by the way, I'm sorry. Toni Collette is on the show today. You know her from The Sixth Sense, Little Miss Sunshine, Muriel's Wedding, Hereditary. She's in the new Charlie Kaufman movie. I'm thinking of Ending Things. She's great. The United States of Terror. Anyway, she's the best.

And I talked to her. And I think I took her to task a bit, probably unnecessarily, about the new Charlie Kaufman movie. But anyways, you can listen to that in a minute. I want to thank whoever suggested to, after listening to the Martin Short episode, I guess it was, that The Heartbreak Kid is actually available on YouTube.

Because you can't get it. I don't know why. Someone laid it out for me. I think it's part of a property that was bought by a larger entertainment company and they just don't give a fuck about making it available but i watched it again on youtube because i i guess i i brought it up in the conversation with martin or he had and what a great fucking movie you know there's a few movies of that time that are of that ilk i would say the graduate and uh you know five easyces to a certain degree in a way,

but not quite. Just the idea of the kind of existential confusion of a generation. The stories are different, but the momentum of the story is the same in terms of the character. And I got to be honest with you, after seeing both of them several times, I'm going to say that the heartbreak kid is, is kind of a better movie. It's all,

I just realized that it's, that's Elaine May and, uh, the graduate was Mike Nichols, but I just liked the way it was written. I mean, sometimes Neil Simon can, can actually do some amazing things with character.

Uh, and I, I can't believe I even said that, but it's true. There's a couple of scenes in that California Suite movie, as I said before, the stuff between Alan Alda and Jane Fonda, which was character-driven, but kind of beautifully written stuff. And I don't know.

It was just great watching The Heartbreak Kid. It watching the the the sort of cringy kind of unfolding of a relationship that should not have happened at all and then the ending of both the ending moments of both the heartbreak kid and of the graduate are just they're spectacular anyways there you go i just gave you a very positive review of a movie from 1960 whatever. 1972. So get out as quick as possible and get to your movie theater in 1972 and watch that movie. taking in the news compulsively on my phone to the point where uh i i annihilate my ability to uh have any hope whatsoever i um i somehow got obsessed with a band which i'm very excited about i i like when you get that sort of moment where you're like you know what is this and it's like old as shit so i'm going i've been record shopping a bit because i've decided i want to um spend some money to try to have a nice time even in the midst of this apocalypse.

And I picked up this double album, the collection of the Incredible String Band. And I never heard of them before. Now, look, I'm not, you know, I'm not adverse to hippie shit. And I'm not adverse. I am a little adverse to Renaissance fairs. And there are certain strands of folk music that don't didn't used to resonate with me but this incredible string band shit something about it the layers of it the depth of it the looseness of it just the whole vibe of it it just i don't know it locked in

i locked in it hooked me so then of course i'm like i gotta learn about this band i gotta i gotta get all the important albums i knew that they existed as a band from a book I have of the hundred essential albums that one must have. And I saw one in there and I had no idea who they were. So it was just sort of in the back of my head. Now I do know who they are. And I went nuts. And I had to get their first, I think Consensus is the first four albums. So I'm finding it haunting and deep

and transcendent in a way takes me to a different place so that's exciting and also i've decided i've decided that the kinks lola versus power man and the money ground part The Kinks, Lola vs. Power Man, and The Money Ground Part 1, 1970, is the best Kinks album. Now, look, I'm no music intellectual. I'm no music historian. I can't even tell you that I've listened to all the Kinks albums, but I do know the ones that people think are the best. And I know some of you are out there who even give a shit about the Kinks. You're like, dude, come on, man. The Village Green Preservation Society, Muswell Hillbillies certainly you know even arthur but come on lola versus power man

and the money ground part one come on it's the best one i will stand by it i had almost a planet waves experience with it and i'm a kinks fan i like the early stuff i like misfits a lot but i like muswell hillbillies. I like the Preservation Green. I like it, but I never really put any time into Lolo versus the Power Man, and great fucking record. As you can see, I'm trying to be upbeat because I have had a wave of grief come back over me, and it seems to be settling in, and I'm trying to not let it become depression.

and it seems to be settling in. I'm trying to not let it become depression. I'm trying to let it stay sadness and not, you know, become depression. But that's what's happening. Now, a lot of people, and I'm not going to, I can't, I'll try to stay in this. I'll try and stay into the solution here.

This company, Zoom, I think it's called, sent me all this tahini products because I had this mind-blowing experience putting tahini on vanilla ice cream. And I talked about it. So this company, Sum, sent me a chocolate tahini sauce. And when I tasted it, I started crying and laughing at the same time. And my body started to shake. It's not a paid plug, man. But holy fuck.

So that's what's going on. A little of that. And Tony Collette is here. Now, I'm going to come at this again. Man, I'm trying not to let the paranoia seep in. It's so fucking hard to not know what's going to happen and see all this darkness. I mean, it's smoky here. Like it's almost unbreathable. And the other day I got it into my head

where I was like, I got to exercise, man. I got to exercise to keep my sanity. But dude, the air is almost unbreathable. I don't, I got to exercise. And I, and I was a couple of days where my eyes hurt, my throat hurt, my chest hurt. And I'm like, this is fucked up. I got to get out of this state. I may still have to do that. But yesterday, I'm like, I checked my little app. I got some app that tells me the air quality. It wasn't great, but it wasn't as bad as it could be.

And I said, well, this is the way it's going to be, man. This is the way it is from here on out. So if we're going to survive, if what living is now is just the sort of day-to-day struggle of literally surviving until shit gets even worse, then if I'm going to choose to do that, we have to learn to adapt. So I took one of my N95 masks and I went out to my hike and it was a Saturday and there wasn't anyone really there. And I was like, fuck it, fuck the air, fuck the smoke. And I did the entire hike with an N95 mask on, not because of COVID, but because of the fucking air.

And I just did it. I focused in. I got into sort of a, I would never compare myself to a firefighter, but I'm like, they do it. I'm doing it. I got the mask. This is what it's going to be. This is what life is like from here on out.

Deal with it. Adapt. I did the hike and the next day my lungs felt like shit but i'm okay i'm gonna adapt i'm gonna fucking adapt man i don't know what's gonna happen five minutes in front of me god damn it so look tony colette is here i did get a little intense about the charlie kaufman movie and i'm gonna do i is it kaufman or kaufman charlie Charlie Kaufman movie. And I'm going to do I is a Kaufman or Kaufman Charlie Kaufman movie. I'm still thinking about it to a certain degree, but it's really like it's not a matter of like what I took away from the movie. It's a matter of like, what was that? Now, I'm

not dismissing it. I'm not diminishing it. It's a long, very well thought out, very sort of you know meticulously edited and shot and conceived movie um i just i i just look i just i did the issue i had was really i get it there's a lot of you know teeming thoughts there's a lot of you know insect brain uh machinations going on kaufman's a genius it's just i don't uh i don't like walking away from a movie not knowing what the fuck it was about maybe i'm stupid but i you know art is art and i should let it pass over me and through me and and sort of you know you masticate it a lot mentally and uh kind of work it out i do know that it got me to see uh woman under the influence again i enjoyed there's one beat in it that I thought was great

during one of the dance numbers. It's when I think the water fountain comes on. I thought that's the best moment in the movie was the musical number when the water fountain starts. That was really the best beat in the film for me was that water fountain during the dance number. Serious.

But anyway, look, that that water fountain during the dance number. Serious. But anyway, look, that takes nothing away from the fact that Toni Collette is a genius and a great actress. Oh, one other thing I wanted to say. Before I get into that, real quick, my old manager, Olivia Wingate, is now in the podcast racket, and she's producing a new one that you might want to check out it's called come on come out and it's a scripted comedy podcast that's like a lesbian version of alan partridge can you wrap your brain around that and it's got a bunch of funny women in it like uh mary houlahan and a gas tire and gabby hoff Great. Very talented people. That's called Come On, Come Out. It's launching tomorrow, September 15th, wherever you get your podcasts. All right, look, Toni Collette. Let's be honest. Who doesn't love Toni Collette? All right? She is the star or one of the stars of

I'm Thinking of Ending Things, and she's brilliant in it. That, of course, is the new movie written and directed by Charlie Kaufman, who I've been talking about. It's now streaming on Netflix. And this is Tony Collette in Australia talking to me in Los Angeles, coming right up. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly.

This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. no-brainer for every business owner because it provides peace of mind. A lot can go wrong. A fire, cyber attack, stolen equipment, or an unhappy customer suing you. That's why you need insurance. Don't let the, I'm too small for this mindset, hold you back from protecting yourself. Zensurance provides customized business insurance policies starting at just $19 per month. Visit Zensurance today to get a free quote. Zensurance, mind your business. were you doing on camera work today zooming and doing press for the film all day so i really don't look like this very often and in fact really don't ever look like this um but i have people here making me look this way that's a nice room is. Is that a hotel room? It's a hotel room. And, you know, I would have done it all at home, but it started incredibly early and I have children and a husband

and it wouldn't have worked. So they got a hotel room. I'm actually looking. How can I show you this? There's an opera house. Oh, the opera house? Oh, look at that. Very close.

This room is on the second floor and you feel very close to the water and you feel like you can touch the opera house, which I mean, I live here. I grew up in Sydney. I still love that building. It is an unbelievable architectural feat. Nothing looks like that thing. That's the only thing that looks like that. Sailboats, maybe. I've been to Sydney a long time ago.

I was there. I think it was probably 2006. Yeah, that is long ago now. I was a I think it was probably 2006 yeah that is long ago now I was a sad man there was a sad comedy club over in some sad area that was some sort of failed fair area there was like a movie theater and it was like some area that was used to be like was it for some bigger event and it just sort of never happened or something. I know there was a movie theater. There was this comedy club. And it looked like a World's Fair almost like area that.

Was it next to Fox Studios? Yeah, yeah. What is that? Something like really interesting like the entertainment district. Right. Right. Oh, so you had a great time it sounds like. Well, the guy who owned the comedy club took me to the zoo.

That was okay. Okay. like well the guy who owned the comedy club took me to the zoo that was okay and okay and i went to uh to bondi beach with uh luke davies do you know luke davies i know luke yes i do yeah he saved me oh he often um i do know he loves north bondi and often rents some place that a friend of his owns it looks straight out to the ocean at ben Buckler. Did you stay with him there? I didn't stay with him. I just visited him. We hung out.

And then I went to that place where you can swim in that pool that I think is ocean water. It's right there on the beach. There's the icebergs at Bondi. Yeah. There's also one at Maroubra. There's one at Coogee. There are two in Coogee called Wiley's Bars, which are pretty great. It was great.

I used to be able to sneak into them at night. It was so, so lovely. Is that what you did when you were a teenager? I did a bit of that, yeah. I remember experiencing phosphorescence for the first time, and I remember standing on the rocks at the beach at Bronte with a couple of girlfriends, and we'd been swimming, and I stood on the rocks and did like a fake tap dance,

and all these sparks were coming off my feet it was so beautiful what what what causes that what is that it's a chemical reaction in the water I don't actually quite understand myself but it lights up it looks like fireflies oh wow so when you splash in the water have you never seen it it's magical not in person does it only happen in Australia no I, I saw it once. Oh, that was Australia too. Sorry. Maybe. No, it doesn't just happen in Australia. It sounds like an Australian thing. I don't know. I think it happens everywhere, but it's rare.

Something has to be lined up for it to happen. It doesn't just happen all the time. So what's going on there? Are you like, yeah, how bad, like, is life, it's terrible? Or is it, what's the lockdown situation? I talked to Sarah Snook in Melbourne. I think they're under martial law there. Melbourne is really suffering.

I'm in Sydney, as you know, you just went to the Opera House. And it's very different here. I mean, we, I was shooting in Toronto. And actually, I wasn't shooting. I was in prep and I didn't even get to shoot. And then I was there for two weeks, flew home in the middle of March, and I was on the flight where they announced you had to self-isolate for two weeks if you were flying into the country.

So I did that with my family and then went into lockdown and everyone was in lockdown for a couple of months. Different states have had their own rules. And it was weird when it ended because it was like it never happened. People just went back to like sweating in gyms next to each other and going out for dinner and hugging and kissing and touching. Anyway, the shit hit the fan in Melbourne and it's a big relapse. It was mishandled, misjudged, and it's very sad. What's going on there?

Sydney, masks are optional. You can go and eat. You can wander around. Masks are optional? Yeah. Do you have a – who's in charge there? Nobody. There's no rule.

It's not mandatory. So you just kind of choose whether you want to die or not, basically. Do I wear a mask to the shopping center and share the air with everyone or not? You have an idiot in charge of the country as well or no? Just ineffective, not as much as a moron perhaps, but just really ineffective, not as damaging. Very beige. So when did you go back there? Didn't you live out here for a while? Yes. And I used to drive around listening to you and and it was so much fun, and I can't believe I'm talking to you.

This is such a trip. I lived in L.A. for four years, and we moved home at the end of 2018. Now, okay, so let's track it because I'm trying to – I feel like I've seen you in a lot of movies, but you've done a lot more movies than I've seen. And it seems like you do like nine movies a year. I think the top has been five, which is slightly absurd. But, you know, some jobs are only two weeks or, you know, they vary. I get it. And I wouldn't do it if I was going to cause myself some kind of nervous breakdown.

I actually love what I do, but I also love being a mother. So I balance it out well how new how how new is that how old's your oldest kid 12 oh so it's been 12 years of that yep but let's okay maybe we start with this movie because i did just watch this movie how did you go with it he frustrates me you don't but uh kaufman does. Because it's like, you know, he tries to get everything in, like literally everything in there. He it feels to me that he you know, he's so smart. He's so self-aware. He has intellectual capacity to challenge himself and you and question everything.

And he seems to find a need to put that when he directs a movie and writes it it needs to be loaded up with everything that fucking guy knows and everything he thinks about so given that you know a lot of times within 10 minutes i'm like oh fuck this guy i mean what fuck him so but that's my problem with him i'd say that's a success what a great reaction yeah no i i know and i and i i guarantee that has to be what he's looking for because it's he does he does not want to predetermine or ever manipulate the audience i think he puts so many ideas into this film and others, but specifically this, and it's very changeable and the ground keeps moving and it keeps challenging you. But it's also very sensitive.

Like it's complex, but it's sensitive, you know. There's a real tenderness to it. And I think he does have love for humanity. But I think depending on your experience, where you're at, you'll hook in on different levels, right? I'm being argumentative. I love the guy. I've talked to the guy.

I think he's a genius. You know, you were great. You kind of suddenly find out how I really felt about Charlie Kaufman. I think he's a genius. And I think there's nobody like him. And originality is everything that's lacking in our industry. And it's so exciting to work with a mind like that. Yes, I agree with that. The thing about geniuses and singular talents is that they run the risk

of being annoying. And I... I don't agree. I find it incredibly inspirational and exciting. And working with him is definitely that as well. But I've been a fan of his for so long. I love I find it incredibly inspirational and exciting. And working with him is definitely that as well. But I've been a fan of his for so long. I love everything he's worked on. I really do. I think I'm craving to have a conversation about the film because there is stuff in it that I really – this is my reaction to somebody who's sort of blown me away. I think it held together better than Synecdoche new york which i i really had a hard time with but i think he was dealing with a lot of the same kind of things that he likes to deal with but but this one to me you

know it did feel like a movie it felt like three or four movies and and i and i do like there you know the things that i like the best about it, oddly, where I loved your performance. I like Jesse Plemons a lot. I liked everyone's. You're probably just saying that to me because you're talking to me. No, no, no, no, no, no. I liked all the performances, quite honestly. But the other parts that I liked, I like when the water fountain came on when they were dancing.

And I like. That sequence is amazing. Yeah came on when they were dancing. And I like... Isn't the dance sequence amazing? It's so beautiful. One of my favorite parts was the musical at the end, which I don't mean to spoil anything, but I think it's a hard... And I really want to see a woman

under the influence again. I walk away from that movie, I want to see Gina Rollins again. Yeah. I walk away from that movie. Like I want to, I want to see Gina Rollins do, you know, I want to, yeah. But, but like when you get presented a script like that, you know, like how do you even read that and how do you process it? Did you get a whole script? Yeah, I did. I was told that Charlie wanted to talk to me about a project that he had. I was sent this script. I read it. I was blown away. I mean, it's so rich and so textual and complex

and I love it when things are ambiguous. You can read different ideas into it. Yeah. And then when we spoke to him, we kind of clarified it a bit. Weirdly, it's kind of strange that it's coming out now because ultimately it's about this lonely guy who's disconnected and just living with memory and sadness and guilt and regret and hope and longing and loss and all of those things that we feel at different moments but it comes thick and fast during the course of the film and it's coming thick and fast in reality now so I

find that timing really kind of incredible you mean the the bleakness the deep feeling of it all so that's what the movie's about it's about a guy who's lonely and reflecting i think did you watch the whole film or are you telling me you turned it off okay just checking i watched it all so you're telling me you're telling me it's all there. It's about several different things. And in actual fact, I can't talk about what the real constructivity of it is, which you realize at the end of the movie because it would give it away. I know. Everyone talks about the narrative of this boy bringing his relatively new girlfriend home to meet his parents

and how strange and awkward and tense it is and how things keep flashing and changing and how everything's not as it seems but that's like the simple version of the movie but you read that script and said oh it's about the guy in the truck um i can't remember what i initially thought but i do remember having an idea about it which was close but no cigar and charlie had to explain it and charlie told you it was about the guy in the truck i can't talk about it in this way mark maron yeah but give too much away no one knows what i'm talking about and even if they see the movie they're not going to know what i'm talking about until the last bit naughty So naughty right now.

All right. It doesn't, it doesn't like, I think because like I, like I look, the conversation I'm having with you, although, you know, I sound like I'm being weirdly argumentative. I had to sit with Paul Thomas Anderson and make him explain certain movies of his to me because I was mad at him. So maybe you're not the one to be talking about this with, but for me, because when somebody presents like Kaufman presents, I'm going to think I have to understand all elements of this and what he's trying to do. And I know that ultimately it's a much simpler undertaking than what I'm seeing it as because he has this idea in his head, but it's a much simpler undertaking than what I'm seeing it as because he has this

idea in his head, but it's all grounded somewhere, you know, but I don't necessarily see that. You're coming into this totally abstract, free-falling situation. I understand. But with you- I haven't read the novel, by the way. It's based on a novel. Oh, you did. I had not read. So I was, no, I didn't read it. So I'm really, and in fact, I don't do that with anything. I just like to deal with the screenplay because there are often things that are intentionally left out or that are enhanced.

So I just try to deal with the material I'm working with and not muddy it up because then I am confused where things are coming from. Well, how do you approach a movie like this as this seasoned actress who's done 900 movies and you have to enter this world that that does he simplify it for you that you are just this person who is this in this situation or do you see it as some sort of you can't think of the enormity of it you can't play the context of it right so we are literally just playing each moment which is what you have to do in any film playing any character so I play a woman who is a mother to this boy whom she has smothered and who has no individual sense of himself because

it's so entangled with his parents and he brings this woman home and I am trying to welcome her and trying to present some kind of normalcy but it's so painful to share my son with her birth that she just is contorting inside she's crying and smiling and trying and yeah it's just all pain the crying and smiling thing is very fun to do yeah would you would you call it a uh there there is sort of a kind of slightly gothic feel to it there's a bit of a horror feel to it. Yes, I, well, see, I don't even think of things in terms of genre anymore. I know people say genre for horror itself, but I'm talking any genre. I don't think about that.

I always just think about the truth of the moment. Yeah. That's all I have control over. Right. And sometimes I don't have any control over that. And that's the best, those are the best moments, actually. When you have no control over the truth of the moment. Yep. But you are in it.

So exciting. Yeah. You just have to let go. So great. It's like a metaphor for life. Yeah. Did that happen on that movie a lot? Because of the shared stream of consciousness,

it seems like we're having a conversation, but it's almost like it's all coming from one mind. Yeah. Specifically that dinner scene and then moving into the living room, that whole sequence in the farmhouse. We all really had to rely on each other in order to kind of feel safe in it because it was so long and we had one rehearsal

to kind of figure out a little, a slight structure, not enough to kind of hem anyone in. So there's still a freedom to it, but there was at least some structure to follow. Because of the rhythm of it, and we were listening to each other. They were long shots too, right? I mean, they were long, tight takes. They were really, really long, yes. And it was pages and pages of dialogue dialogue i remember that because there was actually

times where i was like is this still the same shot and it was the same shot like they go on for a while i'm so disenchanted by your experience watching this movie no it was people usually enjoy that i was engaged it i you know in the in the way that I was engaged, I watched- Had he been on your show or not? You need to talk to him. I talked to him. Yeah, but he had to come with somebody else. He came with the director of Anomalisa and he wouldn't do it on his own. And I got about 45 minutes with him and it was great. I had a good time with him, but I'm sure he felt that there was a- I have found that I have a friend who's an artist,

and she did one of those TED Talks. And breaking it down and having to explain her work was really upsetting to her. And I can understand that, and I think that's how Charlie feels. Like he does what he does. He doesn't want to determine how people respond. He doesn't want to give them ideas of what it is so that they have their own reaction and idea about what it is um i i get that and i understand

that he made you know he when he's left to his own devices and he writes and directs the films that you're dealing with something you know that is fundamentally an experimental movie really i mean he's very meticulous and he's very decisive, but the way things- But he's not very open to ideas. He is very collaborative. I had heard he was very specific, which he is. I mean, he's creating a world. Someone has to be clear about it. Someone has to be at the helm of the ship, but he is very, like there's one line, I did see it in the trailer. I'm going to paraphrase that i say i should know it um where i i say oh jake would lose his head if it wasn't screwed onto his own head

i i fucked that up that was the wrong line and he got so excited by it and was like leave that in right so he's really open to those really great accidents i i like look i don't want you to misunderstand i i'm aggravated because I think he's challenging and that's the best compliment I can give somebody who is who is general who is creating something you know like there are certain things like I get mad because I want to understand and he's defying me to understand something that is fairly incomprehensible because of everything he's laid out there you know there's no way you can put that together and be like i get it i see what's going on here because it's just no fucking way but um but all right that aside i'm only sitting here not saying anything because i know i know what the story is but actually i

also can't talk about it because it gives it away but you're saying there's no one to give it away to or we need to give it away because no one understands it so no i mean but even if you were to tell me this story i guess the reason i'm trying to get it out of you because i'm not even sure what the story is i mean i know i know those two people went over i know the car ride and i know the guy in the truck i get all that you know what the relationship between the guy in the truck and the couple that came over because like there is a time issue and i know that time is not really that important to him and that you know time, time is sort of, you know, nebulous and fluid and, and doesn't necessarily mean years. And I get that, but I'm still not sure. You're like, is this in a head? Is it not in a head? Am I allowed to tell you what

I know? And then if you're not allowed to play it, somehow you delete it because I feel like I need to just tell you, Oh, you're saying yes, but I don't know if I can trust you. We're not out to sandbag anybody. I'll tell you later. Yeah, we can do it after. And then maybe I'll feel better. All right, so then like these moments that you're talking about where you play the truth of the moment, but sometimes you don't know. Like, for instance, I watched most of Hereditary.

Now, it was just because I was trying to catch up. It was because I want to have a full head of you going into you with the talk. That's cool. That's nice of you. Well, yeah, because I have memories of you. But I just wanted to see, because you've done so much over the years. But for instance, I guess what resonates with me, because I have been in some grief lately, is like in that grief meeting. Was that a moment where you were playing the truth and the truth that sort of got away from you into something else?

There was a lot of it in that movie, I have to say. I think there was just, there really was. um there was just there really was it's very bizarre but in reading that script it was just immediate knowledge of what it needed and although not knowing how I would like climb the ladder I knew I would get there you know I there's some weird knowledge that I it's just an understanding and I can't help but do it if I tried tried not to do that, I just couldn't be able to stand myself. I knew I had to do it because I could feel it so intensely. And this is going back to kind of Charlie's idea of things, like some things I'm not articulate about but there is

such a strong pull and such a strong kind of understanding that, you know, I'm not technical. I don't, you know, go and go and you know there's a certain amount of work that you do you have to learn the lines you but really it's just aligning myself as closely as possible with a sense of whatever the character's going through and it did kind of frighten me that in hereditary i really just understood so much of it yeah because it was so you know dark and like you you there was was there something at risk for you mentally oh no i don't think so i've never felt like um you always thought you were gonna get out yeah i never feel like i'm gonna go to the other side and never come out i'm not

that i don't like i always have a sense of myself but i'm happy within that kind of myself but I'm happy within that kind of between action and cut happy to just let go there's no other way to put it I don't know how to say it but yeah don't you find you act don't you find there's a real ease and a flow to things when it's written well when it's not written well you can't remember it it feels all rigid and you have to work hard to make it work the good ones there's just a flow I can look at it and that's it. Yeah, I think that's true. You know, like I don't have extensive experience acting and usually I don't do things

that aren't something I can do. Like I'm yet to be in a project where I'm like, I'm going to really challenge myself with this and be this completely other person. Like most of what I've done just requires me to sort of add or take things out of my own personality. Don't you think most actors do that?

I guess so. They just hide behind the character. But actually, it's everyone. It's all you. Every character is me. They're all everything. So, you know? Yeah, see, well, that's sort of the Charlie Kaufman idea.

We are all everything. And it just kind of bleeds into everything else. Wah, wah, wah. Mind-bending. But when did this start? I mean, over the years, it seems that you've gotten, like, it really seems that your particular talent, although from early on, you know, the emotions were coming through. particular talent although from early on you know the emotions were coming through and but like you can really sort of it seems that you've grown in terms of the risks you're willing to take emotionally and character wise and also just you know weirdness wise like you think existing is

weird so why couldn't everything like everything is weird yeah i know i know i think potentially my work has i think anyone's work is going to become more interesting the more they know themselves. Right. Because there's more to use because you're dealing with knowledge. You're not just freewheeling and just kind of guessing. Do you have like – that's interesting because like recently I've been noticing that my thoughts are coming together in a way that I find surprising. I just want to say, Mark, I met Lynn several times and hung out with her and I'm so sorry. It was just so shocking. And I am very, very sorry for you and all of her friends. I met with her

when I was working with Megan on Lucky Them. Oh, yeah can't imagine well the thing is i can imagine what you're going through and you will be surprising yourself right right yeah it's been it's it's been brutal really yeah but yeah and it's a changing thing it'll just keep changing it doesn't go away you've dealt with it yeah yeah well i mean it's part of life it sucks man it is part of life. It sucks, man. It is part of life. That's the weirdest thing about it. It's that in framing grief or in framing tragedy, you realize that there's nothing unusual about it. There's better ways for it to happen. There's better timing for it. It's probably better when it's expected, but there's no way around it. probably better when it's expected, but you know, there's no way around it. And, and, you know,

it's just, but there's nothing unique about it other than my particular, the tragedy of her losing her life, but also just, you know, having to deal with that, whatever leads up to that, but it is fundamentally a human thing, but it's been, it's been terrible. When I talk to people about it, it, uh, you know, it brings up the feelings. But you've got to go through the feelings. Yeah, you can't shun it. That's the thing. You can't go around it. You've got to go through it. Right.

But this is the thing. I'm telling you. But there are different stages in your life in terms of what you're saying where I think you have these chunks of life where you think you have things together and you're doing a certain type of work. And then either something happens that's tangible or it's not and you're a different person because you've come through something. Yeah, I totally agree. And actually the shittiest moments

are the most beneficial in terms of growth and understanding, I think. Like when you started, like you grew up in Sydney? I grew up in Sydney, yeah. And are your folks still around? They are, yep. Oh, that's great. What kind of, like, what did your parents do?

My dad, well, they had several different businesses. Sometimes when I was younger, my dad, he was just saying the other day, he had four jobs at once. But it's generally, they're both uneducated, and they are delightful people, and they are the salt of the earth, and they have worked so bloody hard to give the three their three kids good lives um my dad predominantly was a truck driver and mom kind of was mom a lot of the time and then had some other you know odd jobs how many siblings two i've got two younger brothers yeah i'm the eldest oh really so how do you sort of pull away and become this person that uh you know decides to do what you do when

did that happen um i think it's i i kind of realized i could sing as a teenager and i listened to some of your records you did not oh my god um okay so i'm moving on um i was 13 in year seven first year of high school, and I was unaware of how things worked and they were doing Pippin at school. I went to a girls' school. There was a hall and a line down the middle and then a boys' school on the other side. And they'd cast it and it was ready and it was going into rehearsal

and I found out about it and I was so desperate to be a part of it and I missed the boat. I went to every performance. I loved it. I was hooked. And then the following year I kind of got in there early and auditioned for Godspell. And I had this, like, life-changing experience.

But I think during that time my grandmother died. And so I think I just I did for a long time use acting as a way of expressing myself because I didn't know how to do that. I didn't know how to contact all of those things inside myself. So it was almost like a clean way of experiencing things where it wasn't me, but I was using myself. So it felt somewhat therapeutic. And you were conscious of that? How come? Why do you think? I think I only realized much, much later that that's what I had been doing. Yeah. Were you just shut down? Was it just like where your family, was it, was you not an emotional bunch in general or? I mean, emotional, but not great communicators. I think we're all getting better as life goes on. Yeah. So, so in a sense,

the, the performative element helped you communicate all the things that you couldn't say as yourself. Yep, absolutely. And connect with myself. I've literally learned from every character that I've played because it has made me look at different ways of living. You're the first person I've asked that to so many actors. I've asked them, do they learn from their characters and no one has really given me a definitive answer I think for some reason a lot of people I think that I've asked don't really you know make that connection but you did because it seemed to be what compelled you initially was your ability to move through other people's emotions yep I think you know and

you know I wouldn't have admitted this years ago because I would have been mortified. Like it's embarrassing to admit that. I would have felt like that. I don't care now, but then. I think because I didn't feel like I could do it on my own as me, I felt like if someone were to find out I would be exposed somehow, right? So I was really worried about that. But now I couldn't be shit.

Yeah. It's really very weird, but I feel like a different human. I know people change through life, but I feel like if I look back on the past, it really does feel like somebody else. It's strange. Do you have that experience? I don't know how many people feel like that. That you were somebody else, that it was somebody else's life

or that you're a different person. Yeah. I think it's my life, but I feel so very different to that person. Well, I think I had, uh, I think I had profound problems, uh, in an earlier manifestation. It takes time to get to know yourself and figure stuff out. Yeah. It's a, yeah. I mean, and I, you know, I pushed the envelope a little bit. I mean, didn't you? Yeah. Maybe not as far as you. I don't know if that's true. Why would you say that? I don't know. You know, one thing I appreciate about you is that you are so yourself.

I am an empath and I can feel when someone's skirting around and you are just you. And I really, when you speak to someone who's comfortable in themselves, it actually makes me feel comfortable. You don't have to do the work of what are they trying to do, what are they actually trying to say, what are they hiding, you know, all of that stuff. It's so exhausting.

So if I meet someone who's actually taken the responsibility knows themselves has gotten to a point where they're just frank about who they are i love it i am so inspired by that well i mean i get but i'm only like that when i talk to people like you i'm only like that when i talk to people like you know that like I've decided to talk to my job I know I know I know but it evolved like that you know like I was a cranky bitter fuck you know when I started you know and it was only through I think it's like dueling empaths is what it is is that like I have to assume like you know given much, you know, how able you are to sort of open yourself up in these parts that, you know, do you remember when you started acting, when things started happening for you or in theater where you started to kind of shake loose and start to realize, like, you know, oh, my God, I'm becoming a human? Yeah.

I literally felt like it was a religion. I felt so alive. It was. Yeah. Magnificent. When did that, when did it start? Like,

where'd you go to school? When did you start to realize? I mean, I would be known as a Westie. I lived in the inner city till I was about five or six. And then we moved up to what was more kind of rural, a rural area, which is now just as all a big urban sprawl now,

but the Western suburbs of Sydney, I would have been called a Westie. We were all frowned upon and kind of thought of as inferior people for quite some time. And it's actually something I'm really proud of, being there, growing up there. But I was also aware, like at the age of 16, of like looking at girls my age pushing prams and just thinking, this is not me, I've got to go here. So I did, I'm not an ambitious person.

I am open to the flow of life. But there was something in me at that age that was just so brave. I can't believe it. If I had to start acting now, I'd get nowhere. But I just had no fear. It was amazing. I think Muriel's wedding was really, that really did feel like a religious experience.

But even doing that musical when I was like 14, 14 years old, then I did, from that experience at school, one of the music teachers said they're doing this big kind of bicentennial musical, bicentennial meaning Australia had been discovered 200 years ago i.e invaded and so there was a big celebration and they were putting together a musical and kids from all over New South Wales which is the state I live in and Sydney is the capital um so they were auditioning kids and I got the lead like it was so bizarre and from from that experience I would go home every night after I would go to rehearsal Like it was so bizarre. And from that experience, I would go home every night after.

I would go to rehearsal, maybe it was a couple of times a week after school. My parents were so supportive and I would catch the training on the weekends. I was so in love with this whole experience because I felt alive. And I would go home at night and I would literally, I can't believe I would do this, start at the beginning of the show and run through the entire thing, everybody else's lines, every move, every note, everything.

I would do the entire show in my head. How crazy is that? Some people do that, though. Like, you know the whole show. Yeah, but I mean, I had no idea what I was doing. I was just doing it. Like, it wasn't some technique or no one had said, you know, try doing this or, you know, highlight the other person's lines.

I was just, just like being 14 but but it's a weird it but like i've known people that like you know you talk to somebody like rockwell and he's like i read the script a hundred times all the way through i'm like really a hundred yeah he's lying to you i don't know what he's after but that is bullshit oh my god yeah he's um i'm so happy for him like good on sam man he is a bloody working actor and he just did it he is he did just getting great jobs and just continuously brilliant i just am so happy for that guy he's such a good person great that's good yeah it's i like to hear when people are happy for other people i thought that you're both in a position to be happy for each other is nice you know yeah that yeah when you can celebrate fucking celebrate exactly yeah for sure but like it

takes a certain amount of uh you know personal uh being grounded to be happy for other people it took me a long time to be that way and i can't i still can't do it for everybody that's fine well no maybe neither can i no generally i pretty open to all we're all connected man rule one it's true truer than ever so okay so from from from the musical but but you did, you studied, you went to, didn't you go to the, the, the school that everyone goes to? National Institute of dramatic. You touched your nose. I touched my nose. It's a real thing, isn't it? It's like a, yeah, no, I don't, we're good.

I went for, it's a three year course. I had done one film before I went then at the the beginning of the second year I was offered a job because this wonderful theatre director here, actually he also makes films as well, but at that point he'd only done film, was a guy called Neil Armfield. He's a very great friend and an interesting guy. Yeah. But at that point I was a child and had no idea

and he was directing Uncle Vanya at the Sydney Theatre Company, which was performed at the Opera House over there. Yeah. And so I decided to leave NIDA and go with whatever was being presented to me. I think I talked to somebody else who did that from Australia. Did Cate Blanchett go there? She went to NIDA, but she did the whole course.

She was the... And did Sarah Snook go there? I wonder. I don't know where Sarah went. I met Sarah at the Toronto Film Festival several years ago. I think we were on the same flight and I was with my agent and she said, oh, that's, you know, that's young actress from Australia, Sarah Snook. And she was sitting down, you know, you can plug your phone in, sitting on the floor, desperately trying to get a cell phone to work and trying to organize

to get into the city. I was like, just get in my car. So I had a car ride with her. We were both probably jet lagged. But my God, she's so good in succession. Everyone is so good in succession. I bloody love that show. It's a crazy show. So wonderful.

I just interviewed Karen. He's a character. Yeah. I can imagine he is because he is. Yeah. Exactly. So good. All right.

So let's go so then like i'm curious about these turning points and sort of like you know how you started to you know at least connect with yourself through these characters because you say you were confident at the beginning going into it that you didn't understand that that you were just a showman i guess or a show woman that you just loved it it was you you found the part of you that's where you lived was up there right yeah funny but then at some point did did the confidence start to collapse and the other thing take over did you all did you just ride that all the way through school and uncle Vanya right into Muriel's wedding where you just fucking all um I'm I'm great no there's no I'm great. No, there's no I'm great. I mean, I'm always like nervous and feel inadequate. Oh, good.

But apparently my balls were bigger and took over. Like I just, I don't know where this bravery came from. Right, right, right, right. So like, so yeah, you were compelled. There was no other way of life for you. And the fear was just, you know, it became just part of the way of life for you. And the fear became just part of the way of life you chose, but it wasn't going to take you down. That's hilarious. Okay. That sounds perhaps appropriate. I don't know.

I don't know. As a young woman, especially Australian, and then all of a sudden I was working away a lot in other places so it always felt like a bit of an outsider but I think that's a good thing it kind of keeps you humble I never felt confident in what I was doing so I always worked just really hard um yeah but as an outsider you're also special you know like oh here's the Australian right there's so many of us now it's embarrassing but you're all pretty good, so it's good. I'm yet to see a shitty Australian. How about that other guy, that fucking guy?

I didn't realize he was Australian until recently, that Mendelssohn fella. Oh, Ben. Ben. Wow. What a fucking actor that guy is. My first film was with Ben. I was 17. Really? How old was he? He's only a few years older than me. Yeah. Which movie was that? Spotswood? Yeah, yeah that's the one look at you with your screen right there referencing left and right wow yeah really impressive i just read a word um it was very very imaginatively retitled the efficiency

expert in america who wants to see the efficiency expert? I don't know about the same amount of people that want to see Spotswood. Spotswood at least has a sense of humor. Well, yeah. I mean, I don't know what it means, but you'd kind of go like, what is that? So you got to work with Anthony Hopkins on your first movie? Yeah. And then I played his assistant again several years later and we were just going, can you believe this? In Hitchcock, played Hitchcock played Hitchcock oh that's right was he sober on Spotswood I was too young to notice wow because I know he's been sober a long time but I wonder so but so Muriel's wedding was huge and that was pretty quick that happened pretty quick yeah yeah yep I was twin I turned 21 during the shoot and then I spent a year traveling around

doing press for it and everything just changed. Yep. It was pretty fast. And did you adjust to that well, or did you lose your mind? Bit of both. Yeah. Probably a bit of both. It was really fun. So then you feel guilty for feeling weird about it, right? Because you are just living the dream and meeting amazing people and traveling and having a great time but it was also you know it was a lot it's interesting because all these movies that you did early on like it when i was reading about you it's you you are fortunate in that 98% of the time, you know, your performance will stand out despite whatever the fucking movie is. Like, it's a real gift you have that, like, even it seems that even when the movie is not great, they're like, but Tony Collette was fucking amazing. So, like, it's great.

And, you know, and also, like, you were fortunate in that some of the movies you were in made a lot of money. Yeah, the two don't usually go together. Like, great filming experience and then actually do well, right? Well, yeah, but, like, by the time you get to the sixth sense, you're already kind of a big movie star. No, I was not. In my mind, you were. Don't take that away from me. Okay, I'll run with your theory.

It's so much more flattering. I don't know. By the time sixth sense, I mean, why did they? I'll tell you what happened. I had actually auditioned for a Wes Anderson film. Which one? Rushmore. Oh, yeah?

I love that movie. I love all of his movies. I love Wes. And his producer at the time, Barry Mendel, who is a good friend of mine, was also working with Knight on The Sixth Sense. So when I didn't get the part on Rushmore, there was an issue about that because I had shaved my head.

I had turned 25. I was in Mexico. There was a lot of tequila involved and I saw a pudgy barber's hand, trusted it and said shave my head. And then I did not get that job, Rushmore. But the same producer was doing The Sixth Sense so he got me in to read for that with Knight and Bruce Willis was there.

But at the same time, I was also brought in to do, Velvet Goldmine had been at the Cannes Film Festival and Martin Scorsese was the head of the jury that year. So he came, he asked me to come in on bringing out the Dare to Film that he was making. Yeah, I like that movie. So I was really focused on working with Marty because Night was new and I didn't know him and Marty is a known figure and a genius

and who wouldn't want to work with him? So at the same time, these jobs were kind of hanging around and I didn't even, you know, I didn't even read The Sixth Sense initially. I was so focused on working with Marty, the idea of working with Marty, and then one night I was jet lagged. I arrived in New York and I thought I'd better read this script or I'm going to be in trouble. And then it absolutely floored me.

It was the most incredible thing. And I got a call. I'd had both meetings. I got a call. My agent said, you got the offer on. I didn't even hear him. I screamed. I thought it was for the Martin Scorsese film,

but it was for The Sixth Sense. It was like that was the right one to get because that's like the one scorsese film that like no one has seen i too haven't seen it but i have a personal reason not to um what is that well i didn't have the job that's it no i felt really um well i was probably busy but yes i just felt i don't know it's an odd movie i don't know. It's an odd movie. I don't know what happened to that movie. I remember liking it, but it's not memorable. I don't think it's, I don't know.

Let's talk about this shaving your head business. That seems like a cry for help. What the fuck was going on? The Velvet Goldmine, were you spiraling? It was so much fun. Velvet Goldmine, my God. Todd Haynes is a genius. Yeah, I know.

I love him. I talked to him. Oh, he just, and the loveliest person. I think he's making a documentary about, I just read about it. He's just finished a documentary on something that they actually. I can't remember the subject matter either, but I did hear that he was doing that. Yeah. So like, okay.

So working with him, like it was that like, well, you live in, it just felt like that. They were all the cool kids at the back of the bus and there's no way I'm going to get this job. That's how I felt.

Right. With the velvet gold mine. Yeah. And then he, he, he really, he gave me that part and it wasn't like, uh,

it was not the obvious choice. Let's put it that way. So I will forever be thankful for him giving me that job because I just bloody loved it. It was so great. We all had the time of our lives. I mean, it's glam rock. Sex, drugs, rock and roll. It was so much fun.

Yeah. Anyway, I've shaved my head five times, to be honest. I shaved my head once when I was too young to deal with it. What did it freak you out afterwards? Yeah. Like, I don't, like, I. How young? I don't know.

Like, I was in New York and I was probably, I don't know, I was like in my 20s. But I just decided, like, you know, like, that's the thing to do. I'll just get one of those razor cuts. And I really had a hard time, you know, figuring out. It may be very self-conscious. It didn't, it didn't, it didn't free me. It did something. It did the opposite. I'm sorry. It's all right. I mean, you know, I was kind of lost, but You get comments on your head shape. Like you don't realize what's under there.

I just was sort of like, who am I? What did I do? What am I made of now? I'm a blank canvas. Where do I go from here? Exactly. Terrible feeling. Have you had that feeling before? I have that feeling. You do?

Yes. You do? Yes. Anything can happen from there. I know, but why do you assume it's going to be good? Well, why wouldn't you? Because that's not the way my brain works. You could go either way, but things keep changing even if it's bad.

You must be good on hallucinogenic drugs. For me, it's just a panic. You know what I mean? It's like, who knows what's going to happen? I can't even take gas at the dentist. I can't. No. It all scares me.

I need to just stay in myself. I had to stop meditating because that freaked me out. I got so into I've disappeared, I've merged with everything, that I had to stop for several years. Well, how is the blank slate thing so compelling to you if you can't meditate or take gas at the dentist? Well, I can meditate now. I went through a period where I couldn't because it scared me

because I disappeared. I think I allow myself to disappear to a certain extent and to be consumed at work but like totally disappearing hideous anyway I don't like the idea of doing any drugs I don't I just I mean I know there are benefits to doing those psychedelics and it can be really incredible for people no one you never had depression or anxiety or lost your mind yes part of being alive who doesn't have that dumb people look you here you got to feel it all there's no way around it yeah otherwise you're missing out on life yeah i you know i've i i've been sort of um paralyzed by a certain amount of anxiety that turns into paralysis that then turns into not being able to.

I get consumed with dread at times. Yes. You know that one? Yes, absolutely. That's the worst. Yes, it's hideous. But it ends, doesn't it? It's not constant.

That's what somebody said to me. Someone said a real nice thing to me, actually. John Hamm, like he was just checking in on me about Lynn. This was just like, you know, just a few days ago. And I said, well, look, you know, he asked me how I was doing. I said, well, I'm not broke and I'm not sick. I'm just sad. And he said, well, that goes away.

Sad doesn't stay around forever. Are you close to him? That's so nice of him. I don't know if we're close, but, you know, he checks in sometimes. You know, people have been very nice about, you know, checking in with certain people. I like him.

But like, there's very few people that I hang out with. Like, you know who I'm close to now? Who's a new friend is Tracy Letts, who you work with. God, I love that man. He played my husband in the Realistic Joneses on Broadway. The Willie No Play. Yeah.

He is. I mean, there's a similarity with you. It's what I was talking about earlier. Yeah. I remember we sat down at lunch, he and Michael C Hall and I and he goes well listen folks we're going to be spending a lot of time together so let's just cut the bullshit and this is my story what's going on with you it was fucking incredible I love him so much I really really really admire him he is an incredible person and I know that he's done a lot of work on himself

and he's just the coolest. What a rock star. I can get, I get him laughing pretty good. Oh, isn't he great when he gets laughing? Oh my God. He's such a great giggler when he really goes. And you were also another movie that I love that nobody talks about changing lanes. I love that movie. I, you know, I love that movie. Yeah, right. I love that movie. I've showed it to people that don't love it as much as me. Even with my passion for it, they don't like it as much as I like it. Your passion isn't infectious enough

to get people through it. Well, I'm a sober guy. So it's really, it's like, it's an AA movie. I mean, it is an AA movie. So like, if you're- Please watch it again. It's been a really long time how do you feel about like it seems to me that uh you know there there's a couple of people and i'm going

to compare you to an american actress who's amazing as well uh alice and jenny oh my god i love that woman she's in the movie with sam too in the way way back that's how i met her right she plays the the the saucy neighbor right yes the saucy pickled neighbor yeah you guys should do a uh two i'm with you yeah you and alice and jenny because like it just seems to me that as both of you get you know uh older you get not only better but you know the your ability to to sort of take these emotional chances without any sort of second guessing is like profound you know i think if you become too calculated it's just try it you've got to just listen to

your gut like that inner knowing is the only thing i rely on that's it anything else starts to come into it i realize i'm suddenly a fence sitter and I've screwed myself up in my head. It's all gut. How do you feel about this sort of like, it seems to me that you're kind of being used or allowing yourself to be used or taking these roles and sort of, I don't want to use a genre name, but they're kind of horror movies. I mean, I've done, actually, I don't know how many films I've done. I have no idea now, but I've only done a handful of horror movies, to be honest.

Well, I guess that's true, but I guess it's just sort of the parts in like- Well, just something to do, right? So they are supremely challenging. Bringing some kind of reality to that world is difficult and I want a challenge. Otherwise, I'm bored. Right.

So that's how you see it, bringing something real to that world. Yeah. I mean, I don't even see it. Hereditary to me is a family drama. It gets freaky in the end. That was, at the end of that was, I mean, I just couldn't help but laugh because it just seemed totally removed from the rest of the film. And I think Ari Astar, the writer-director, was very clever because he was a first-time feature filmmaker and he wanted to do something splashy.

But in order to get noticed and, you know, open some more doors for yourself, I guess that genre does things. I don't know. Sure. Really, it's an intense family drama. Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah. And Gabriel Byrne, he's such a great actor too, huh? I can't believe I got to work with him.

Was he great? Gabriel Byrne? Right away, you guys. Oh, my God. What a great person. Great human. Yeah. That's good.

So what about stage? Do you want to do more of that? No, I want to direct now. Oh, really? really yeah i've been offered some things on broadway but i live in australia i can't i just can't keep doing it i have to you know you want to direct film yeah yep that's what i want to do are you working on that you got some things lined up three things lined up i better do a good job i've got three of them lined up um so that's exciting. Yes. One's been announced.

It's an adaptation of a book by Graham Simpson called The Best of Adam Sharp. And the film's going to be called The Best Of, which we're hoping. I mean, who knows what's going to happen in the world, but hoping to shoot next year. Do you have your DP? I do. Do you know him from other movies? I did a film called Dream Horse last year in Wales,

which was one of the best experiences. Have you been to Wales? No. Oh, man. It was never on my hit list. I'm telling you, the people are beautiful. It is stunning. The place is just unexpectedly beautiful.

I will continue to go back there now. But I did this film. It's based on a true story about a woman who kind of feels a bit lost. Her kids have grown up, her relationship's a bit boring and she'd had this history of like training, you know, like having show pigeons and things like that when she was younger with her dad, something she shared with her dad. And she just decides she's totally broke and she just decides

that she's going to raise a racehorse, she's going to raise a racehorse she's going to breed a racehorse and this racehorse goes on to be like be the biggest winner that Wales has ever known it comes from this tiny little community where she gets everyone in the village to put in and it totally changes the community it's the most beautiful story so anyway Eric Wilson who shot that is also going to he I it's the first time I would be in a room on set. I thought, go and look at the monitor. It just looked, I couldn't believe what he had done, literally just with the lighting.

It was just so breathtaking. So anyway, he's going to be shooting the film. Good choice. Sounds like a good choice. Norwegian. Norwegian. Of course he's great. Yes. Because Norway is like a magic land

that's right so alright I want to tell you this before we go I love you I'm a huge fan I like your work I like the movie I was just being argumentative because it challenged me and you know I demand

answers right I was just being argumentative because it challenged me and, you know, I demand answers. They should. Right. But I shouldn't because no one's going to give me answers. Charlie's not going to give me answers. You're not going to give me answers. No. Eventually.

Okay. Well, I mean, I certainly will, you know, I will recommend the film. You were great in it. And it's a complex, amazing movie. There's no way around it and it was great talking to you so what i'm going to do now is i'm going to sign off kind of i'm going to say it's great talking to you because i know you got other things to do and you're going to say thank you mark this is really fun i've been a fan for a long time

um i used to listen to you in the car and then you're going to tell me what the fuck that movie was about. Mark Maron. It is my pleasure. I, do you know what? I would listen to you. I listened to your show so often. I'm like,

why doesn't he ever ask me to do it? Why hasn't anyone asked me to do it? So, you know, when I, I was at my kid's soccer match on the weekend and I was clicking through an email about what I had to do today. And there was your name.

My husband turned to me because my breathing changed. I was so like, oh God, I'm going to be doing what the fuck with Mark Maron. I got really nervous and it was days before I was going to speak to you. Do you feel okay about it? Yes, because ultimately I knew that you were going to be you because you are you and it comes through in everything that you do and there's nothing to be scared of because you're lovely and it's been such a pleasure i'm very very happy to meet you that's good to meet you too um thank you for doing it okay now what the fuck was that movie about okay there you go i i put the time in, see it, maybe space it over two viewings.

I'm thinking of ending things is now streaming on Netflix. Enjoy. Try to keep it together. I will play now a bit. Thank you. BOOMER LIVES! Boomer lives. So does Monkey Lafonda. We'll see you next time. ice cream or just plain old ice yes we deliver those goaltenders no but chicken tenders yes because those are groceries and we deliver those too along with your favorite restaurant food alcohol and other everyday essentials order uber eats now for alcohol you must be legal drinking age please enjoy responsibly product availability varies by region see app for details

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