WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1165 - Wayne Coyne

Episode Date: October 12, 2020

Flaming Lips frontman Wayne Coyne was in Los Angeles and decided to stop by the garage for a rare pandemic-era in-person chat. It's been a long time since Wayne and Marc hung out last. Since then both dealt with deaths of people close to them and they talk about how processing those losses gave them perspective on what we're all living through. Wayne also talks about being a new dad in his late 50s, how an epiphany while working at Long John Silver's changed his personal trajectory, and why he considers himself to be on his third life. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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It's hockey season and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea, ice cream, or just plain old ice? Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are Yes, we deliver those. Goal tenders, no. But chicken tenders, yes. Because those are groceries, and we deliver those too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, alcohol, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucksters what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf to it. How's it going? I don't know, man. It's just like one day bleeds

into the next. I get up early. I go to bed late. I don't know why. I just do. Every day feels like a week with no dates and days have no names. I just know that, well, I got to do this today, so it must be Monday. That's what I know. It's all dictated by who I'm talking to. I'm talking to you. Mondays and Thursdays, I talk to you. And then I talk to people during the week. Some of them come over, like today's guest, Wayne Coyne from the Flaming Lips. He's actually been on the show.

Both guests this week have been on the show. I don't usually do this. But I got Wayne today because he was here. He was on the show like back in 2012, episode 276. We did it in Oklahoma. I was performing in Oklahoma. He came to the show and I talked to Wayne in a hotel room in Oklahoma. And I feel like we talked a lot about fear of plane crashes but I got a text from him a few weeks ago he's going to be in LA he wanted to know if he could come by and talk and do the thing because he's got the new record out and I was like why not why if you're brave enough

to come over I'll put the plexiglass up and we'll do a fucking live one we'll go one-on-one face-to-face mano-a-mano and uh and do the thing so he came over and uh you know it was great i mean it's nice to see him it's nice to talk to people that's the thing about this time that we live in it's you can't it's hard to talk to people masks are sad we have to wear the masks, and I wear mine. But when I look at all the other people in masks, it's like, I'm glad everyone's wearing them. But what a sad time. But it's important to reach out to people. It's important to talk to people one way or the other.

I know I do these Instagram Lives in the morning sometimes, and I just talk to the room full of strangers there know, 500 to a thousand people kind of hanging around, listening to me ramble on. Sometimes they're they're good. Sometimes they're sad. Sometimes it's just the way I'm living. But it gets me connected. And I know that some people feel connected to that. But it's also important if you have friends to talk to them, if you have family to talk to them occasionally. No one's got any answers. No one can solve the problems. But, I mean, it's nice to know they're there, isn't it? And I seem, I don't know, I'm a little, I don't know why I'm less frightened.

Maybe it's just because it's this hour or this 10 minutes or this day or maybe it's just the spectacle of the incompetent huckster clown king and his minions maybe it's that that becomes undeniable what a fucking bozo piece of garbage person we have at the helm of this fucking bread and circus of conspiracy addled dum-dums and christian end times death cult acolytes just in this plague spreading parade of hate in the name of jesus in the name of liberty and they're just too caught up and frenzied to know that they've been conned into eternal servitude in the fucking stupid section of hell by this fucking gorgeous george looking runt of a lesser demon looking for a way out and the only way out he can see is to stay in the saddle and use the fucking government as a money laundering operation.

Maybe the clarity of that, all of that. Maybe I assume that some people are seeing that. Maybe I assume that it becomes undeniable after a certain point. It's not even about stupidity. It's about shallowness and it's about servitude and it's about the need to follow. The need to make sense

is just exploited and distorted. It's just most people have been kind of shut off somehow. I think there is an evolution of entitlement and narcissism and self-actualization, empowerment, the idea of seeing yourself as a brand, a content-generating brand. You are a brand out in the world more than you're a person. So the idea of the brand, what is my brand? Who am I as a brand? How do I fit out there into the context of content? What am I? and likes and dislikes and sort of this ongoing evolving resume of pop culture ticks and strange sort of reaching back to a very short history of nostalgia. So how's your brand going? So all that effort into self-actualizing your personal brand to manufacture your personal content out in the world has left you intellectually crippled and i'm no fucking genius

it's just i was trying to figure out where the shallowness comes from it's that nobody most people are not called upon to use their brains. They're called upon to repeat themselves, to honor the patterns that dictate their lives, to take in information that makes them feel good. Doing your own thinking is tricky. And sometimes it's hard to know if you're even capable or doing it. it's hard to know if you're even capable or doing it but if you don't try to figure that out you're going to be part of some fucking parade and you're not even sure where that ends or why people are watching it but if your brand is intact you know exactly what your likes and dislikes are and your top five or top tens of just about everything and uh

and uh you take a relatively decent picture of a meal right so i have been wrestling not wrestling i've been it seems i don't know if i talked about this that my grief has sort of evolved or morphed into a kind of baseline sadness. There was a blackout here at my house the other night and I was just sitting in the dark for two hours in that silence of a weird blackout. Don't even know why it happened. I pulled out my cooler and put in the ice things and threw the meat in there.

Didn't know how long it would go on for, but I sat there and I realized, you know, I feel that, that tugging at my heart, that, that weird, it's not depression, but it feels a little like depression where, you know, your, your spirit sags and you feel some sort of, um, hand lightly holding your heart, you know, and it's coming from deep, deep somewhere, deep within you, deep within the ground, deep within the, uh, the earth. I don't know, but it's just a little tug at your heart and it kind of pulls your mind and it pulls your spirit and it pulls it down a little bit. It's

just a, a tug of, of, uh, it's not bleak. It's just sad. It's heavy. There's a burden, It's not bleak. It's just sad. It's heavy. There's a burden, a burden of sadness, of loss. So I guess now that the shock and trauma is over, then you can't help but revisit it if you've experienced some sort of tragic loss. How one person was here and then quickly they were gone and you saw them fade away. Now that's been months ago. And now there's just sort of this sadness. And it's just really what it is, is I miss her. I miss her. I miss Lynn.

It's not that I'm lonely or that I miss having someone around. I miss her. And her not being here is final. And I got to live with that. Then you start thinking about the heart. What is your heart? What can your heart take really? Many of you have sort of tucked yourselves away into something that's lasted a long time and you've built families or whatever. I just was not that guy. So what I do and what I've done over my life is I've been with many different people, some for a long time, some for short times. I've had my heart broken a few times. I've broken a few hearts, which is horrible. Leaving somebody because you have to, because it's the right thing to do with you is not easy. It hurts. It's heartbreaking in its own way, even if you're the one that makes the decision. And then carrying the burden of hurting somebody else is what it is. That weighs on your action of breaking that heart and then giving your heart to somebody else and have that end. I've had that happen a couple of times.

And it's just, how much can your fucking heart take? It takes a toll. This underneath, you know, everything that's going on in the world it's hard to process so i see a therapist i talk to friends i cry but it's just life it's a human thing man this is part of it heartbreak loss missing people that were once here and are no longer This is part of it. Heartbreak. Loss. Missing people that were once here and are no longer.

But I bought some plants. Finally bought some plants. For the front yard. I guess I'm going to hang out. And I planted a few in the ground. I guess that's a nice way to... I guess that's a fairly common way to feel regeneration or growth or do something to honor somebody i should be more shallow either or give me your top five what are your likes and dislikes. So Wayne Coyne, he's a great front man of a great band and the Flaming Lips, it's their 16th studio album. American Head is available now wherever you get your music.

And I was happy to see old Wayne. He's a diplomatic cat. He's a charming motherfucker, Wayne. He's a diplomatic cat. He's a charming motherfucker, but he's also a psychedelic warrior. And it was nice to talk to him. Here's me and Wayne. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats, but meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No, but moose head? Yes, because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too, along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now.

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18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Coin. How's that? Can you hear it? Too loud? Is it good? Too loud? Man, you're good at this. You want more? You want less? You good? I think that's just perfect, yeah.

So, have you been your own engineer for like ever? I have, man. I can't... I mean, it's funny, you know, because that used to be... It used to be like a thing like this would have like 10 people doing it. Yeah, well, some guys, you know this would have like 10 people doing it. Yeah. Well, some guys will have a producer in-house. My guy's in Brooklyn, and we've just worked it like this. How hard is it to produce two guys fucking talking? It's just the mic is what's important, and these are good mics.

Your show has always sounded good. You use these? I don't even know. I don't know what kind this is. I mean, you know, it's one of those SM7s, man.

It's like sweet vocal tones. You don't know your mics? Well, but you've got your, you've got padding and everything in here. I know. We're kind of breaking the rules

a little to get the ventilation going. Because I, like, here's the weird thing about the pandemic. It's like, I'm not, I'm not,

like, I know I'm probably good because I'm a fucking nut. I get tested every two weeks just because I'm a nut, right? But, like, I'm so paranoid that I'm the guy. You know what I mean? You mean you're the guy that's going to spread it? Yeah. Oh, I see. Why would you be the guy?

I don't know because, like, I'm a nut. I never feel good. But you're healthy. You ever feel good? You mean, like, just physically? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I thought? Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, I thought about this on the way over. You know, like I think that's, you know, I just knowing you, I mean, not knowing you that well, knowing you from your show, I know that about you. You know, you're always. Complaining? You seem healthy. Always what? No, you're worried. Yeah, I'm worried.

I mean, I'm a worrier too. But you seem healthier than ever. I am. You know, I go up, I hike. I was mad I I'm a worrier, too. Yeah. But you seem healthier than than ever. I am. I go up. I hike. I was mad. I couldn't hike today because I can't breathe. And then like an hour or so ago, like my eyes were hurting.

Oh, wow. I was fucking smoke. My throat, my chest feels fucked up. I couldn't tell. You know, I mean, I'm not in L.A. that much. Well, this is not common for us either. OK. Yeah.

We have fires, but it's the fucking apocalypse out there is it i don't know well i mean i didn't see i mean it's like hazy and then i see there is some can you smell it a little bit but i mean i mean i remember pulling la yeah in the 80s it would be so smoggy right and no one cared then and now there's a fire and did you notice the sun this morning? Did you have a... Well, I have to say, you know, we drove in on... Was it late Tuesday?

And it was already like that just from the wind blowing. You made the run from Oklahoma? Yep. So you drove through my home state, New Mexico? Oh, totally. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Where at? I grew up in Albuquerque. Oh, totally. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Where at?

I grew up in Albuquerque. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. Been through there 100,000 times. Yeah, I was just up there to, I drove up to Taos. I was in Taos. I saw your posts and stuff. Oh, it's so nice.

It is. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's not the greatest drive in the world, is it, from Oklahoma? Well, we've got a nice family car now. Yeah. Brand new Volvo. And, man, you know, it just does everything for you. Yeah, yeah.

It tells you if someone's coming up behind you. Right. It'll stop for you. Yeah, no, yeah. You know, it's like, oh, my gosh. It's good. It helps when you're texting and looking at your phone. Well, I guess it's another thing.

For the car to slam on its own brakes. I mean, you know, I try to remind people that there were plenty of car accidents before people could text. There's plenty of reasons just to fuck up and kill somebody. But there's more because of that, I imagine. I have to assume. Right. But even getting over here with the way the GPS and all that works, I was like, oh, my gosh. It's amazing.

Yeah. We don't have to think at all. Finally. Well, you know, I've been to LA. I was thinking about it. When was the first time you came? 1984. With the band.

Yeah, 1984, 1985, something like that. So with the original band. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is it, the only band. Kids, your kids. 20, 23, 24. Yeah, yeah. Kids enough compared to now.

Oh, yeah. And what were you doing? What did you do the very first time we drove out here my old man had like a one of these uh just oh i forget what it was like an old old pontiac long big long uh car right we put a trailer on it yeah um it was the only car like that we were getting we couldn't rent a van or anything back then, you know. Put a trailer on it and we crashed. There was some road construction and we crashed

and the trailer flipped over. In LA? Like on the outside of LA. Okay. So we're driving just all night. Didn't even make it. Well, you know, as it was happening, that's what we thought.

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Our first trip and we're, I mean, at first you're just lucky that you're not dead. Right. And then you think, oh, you know, we fucked this up and now we're not going to make the show. But, yeah, the trailer turned over. We had to get out and it's all like it's damp. I mean, it's all dewy.

It's in the early morning and it's all muddy. And we turn the trailer over. And for some reason, the whole thing just works again. We pull off and we get on down the road to the show later. And as we're unloading, nothing is even messed up. None of the equipment's fucked up? Nothing. All I remember, and this is a superstition I still have even to now.

This is from 1984. I took my shoes off. I was a passenger. I just got done driving. I took my shoes off. I was a passenger. I just got done driving. I took my shoes off and I made a sandwich. Some kind of cold turkey or something, chicken or something, you get in a thing. And I remember we are swerving thinking we're going to die. And after it's all over, my hand has squished the sandwich. You can't see it on your podcast here, but my hand has squished the sandwich and the bread and the meat is... And I remember thinking, oh man. And then I put the sandwich down. And

then I'm annoyed that I have to put on my shoes. And ever you know and ever since then i'm just more like ready like a fireman you know like i'm like i'm i'm ready to go because this could happen any second i thought i thought you were gonna say something like yeah whenever i'm approaching a city i have to squish a sandwich in my hands because i'm superstitious see that would be you it would be like there would be it would go deeper with you for me it, it was just. You're prepared. But you're right. I don't really eat a sandwich. I don't eat a sandwich anymore.

Maybe I'm not on your level, but I'm almost. No, you're on the road, man. You're making, that's probably, all you guys were eating. It would just annoy me that I didn't have any shoes on. Right. Like, if I really needed to help my friends, I'd have to put my shoes on first or go around without shoes. Oh, I see what you're saying.

So, you know, if there's a gas fire and the car's about to go up, you know, there's no time to put your shoes on. I don't know. It's like, you know, how relaxed should you be when you're just traveling down the highway at 90 miles an hour? I think you should be pretty relaxed. You think? Of course.

I think you should be, like, alert and prepared. I mean, but look, man, it's like a straightaway. I'm driving. You're driving through Death Valley. You did it the other day. You're driving through the Mojave. Yeah. There's a point where you're like, I don't got to freak out.

I'm not going to freak out. Well, I agree. I mean, it's almost too relaxing. Yeah. Yeah. That's why driving and podcasts are so perfect. Exactly. Now I'm going to obsess about that.

About the sandwich? No, that fucking that fucking ac noise oh that's okay like you're only the second guest i've had with the plexiglass setup oh i see and i think for some reason in my mind it's like it's essential to get into the habit of having airflow oh i got you yeah but what the fuck do i know so the you mean the flow so so we're not this this so there's no regrouping air there's no like i don't have the air conditioner on it yeah but you know look i'm sure we're not this... So there's no regrouping air. There's no, like, I don't have the air conditioner on. But, you know, look, I'm sure we're both fine. I know. I know.

I mean, I was tested just the other day. Wait, I'm going to go tomorrow. It's not going to help us today, but I'm sure I'm fine. We can speculate. It really is. I know. Then you'll read, like, well, you could have got tested, and then it didn't show up until today. And I know.

The test only buys you as much time as it takes you to go into anywhere. Well, but I've really been anywhere, either. Is it freaking you out, though? No. On a day-to-day basis? No, not really. No. I mean, in the very beginning, you know, I mean, I didn't really know if we were going

to start to see just bodies laying in the street. You know what I mean? People dropping dead. Like, you didn't know know if we were going to start to see just bodies laying in the street. You know what I mean? People dropping dead. You didn't know how alarmed you should be. The plague is. Yeah, you should be. But really, this is the way it really is. People are dying and people are really sick, but it's just normal.

It's just a normal day out there. You can't really tell. Well, I understand what you're saying like every day i get up you know i i you know i sit on my porch and i don't feel the presence of death yeah exactly other than inside my own brain i've watched a couple of your morning coffee things yeah you did yeah i mean not not the entire thing but i but you know you're you're really good at reading the screen. Yeah. And still being present in the, you know, while you're being.

Right. But I noticed when I look at it, there's long pauses when I'm reading. But who gives a fuck? I don't give a fuck. Well, I know sometimes I would forget that you're reading and I'd be like, oh, dude, he's. Or I'm just responding to things and it sounds like I'm just thinking them. Like, I don't know where I go. Well, I would have done this. I would have been like, I would forget I'm just responding to things and it sounds like I'm just thinking them. Like, I don't know where I go. Well, I would have done this.

I would have been like, I would forget I'm on. Right, right. And I'd just be like, oh, he's forgot. But no, you're reading. Yeah. Now I know. Yeah. So you wouldn't forget you're on.

You've been on for 20 years. You know, you're always on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, but that's a new thing, that IG thing. I didn't do it for a long time. But now because like of, I don't know, man man you you know it's sort of helping me in the sense that you know i'm not working in front of audiences and you know i would do those things maybe once or twice a week

oh yeah yeah but you know it's been a few months you know since the the the tragedy that i've gone through yeah yeah and uh dude um we we we uh i'm not to interrupt you. We listen to your your stuff that you did right after that. Yeah. You're inspiring. I told you that. I told you that when when you were going through all that. And it's still inspiring to be around you even right now. And it is it's it's the heaviest stuff ever. And but what what you do, though, is you you talk about it and you you're you're right in it and that's that's a valuable the truth is so valuable and that's that's a heavy heavy cool thing yeah because

a lot you know a lot of people would just decide oh this is something no one i'm not going to talk about this or whatever yeah and it's like i don't know i'm so glad you talk about it oh thanks and and i don't i hope it helps you it definitely helps us you know we're listening to you go and because i i really did worry about you and just hearing you and knowing uh that you're i don't know it's powerful yeah it really was i didn't know how else to handle it you know and i'm fortunate in that like you know i put it out there i didn't feel like i had to do it but i felt like my audience has been through not unlike you like in a sense that you know you have a a unique relationship I think the the lips have a unique relationship with their audience like that that there there is an element of salvation yeah to the event yeah yeah of what

you do yeah you know like there's a lot of people that you know kind of look forward to it uh with all their life and heart to get out and you know get to where you take them and for me like i know that my audience had been through a lot with me and that like it's not so much it was for them but it's like i don't because my producer was like take the time and i'm like for what i gotta i'll talk about it i'll live it let's live it but now that it's sort of settled in today was heavy some days it's heavy man you just think like the fragility of it all

she's gone and it's like I'm here but it's just like it's devastating and it's devastating on a day-to-day basis. But it's fundamentally human. Like, in talking to you about, like, you know, when you think about the psychedelic experience or the sort of continuity of things, which you seem to think about, what I'm going through is something everyone goes through. Well, but a lot of people go through it and they don't

have they don't articulate anything about it and i think that's that's where i mean you know i'm lucky i get to do music and i you know i i love writing songs and so you just but part of you know even you being a performer you know part of you doesn't always know what you're gonna say i say that about songs all the time. You're not sitting there thinking, I must say this. Right, right, yeah. But something in you wants to say something. And really, that's, I mean, we overuse the word therapy, but it is therapeutic to say it out loud, to say it even if nobody else hears it in a way.

Just you expressing it, even if it's just to your own ears again, there's just something about that. Especially in a world full of bullies and in a world full of, you know, sort of kind of knotted up emotions. Well, I mean, what's great about your show is that it's not just a soundbite, you know, it's not just a couple of moments where you've got to throw all this. It's got to be all this it's got to be heavy it's got to be entertaining it's got to be quick you know you can talk and you can keep you can go yeah you can keep the idea of flowing around and man there's not even very many people in life that do real conversations like that no no one you know i noticed that i used to like to have those

conversations you know what you grew up in uh you know it's not the southwest i guess what is oklahoma the midwest yeah yeah midwest yeah but there was a time in our lives like if you don't grow up in a big city where you're just wandering around talking to people sure yeah you know and uh but even even like the like the driving driving around in the van oh yeah all day we would have we would have conversations that would last for months you know you would have started it at the beginning of the tour you have another 10 hour drive and you you get back to the evolving conversation and then and now i mean i mean don't get me wrong i think there's plenty of uh plenty of people that i

know that yeah you know you can sit there and and and talk with but most most stuff isn't isn't it's not in depth it's not reflective it's not it's not oh i'm learning something as i'm as we're talking about it i mean your your your your show um is so great like that it's almost like you're learning stuff from your your guests yeah and they're learning stuff from you while it's happening yeah no it's exciting i'm learning exactly yeah like so last time i talked to you it was like a million years ago it was i actually tell people i used to say it as a joke it was like in the mid 70s when you and i talked it felt like it it was like because we could be like 70s characters i know but but you know some people know it's not the set wasn't the 70s, but some people just say, oh, yeah, sure.

It might as well have been. Yeah. I mean, I did the show, and we were in the hotel room. We talked a lot about planes. Fears of planes. Oh, totally. Yeah. But then I went to your show afterwards, and, man, it was great.

Yeah, it was kind of wild. It was great. It was great. I mean, you were funny mean you're funny you're funny all the time really but you know when you're in the

the arena there when you're in the theater yeah it's like oh my gosh somebody asked me so pathetic but so great

thank you and but you know that is the thing that people relate to I mean it's it's difficult for anybody to be as brutally honest about themselves as you are.

It's terrible. I'm laughing right then. It is. It's what I do. No, it's amazing. But, like, I remember we talked a lot about plane crashes. You talked about your brothers. How are your brothers?

I'm trying to remember. Everybody seems to be about the same. I mean, maybe one of my brothers has OD'd since then. I'm trying to think of when that was. Like dead? Like dead, yeah. How many are there? Well, I've got Tommy, my oldest brother.

Ken is next to him. And then my sister, Linda. And then Marty is the one that OD'd on some sleeping medication. Oh, Jesus. On purpose? No, no. I think it was just, yeah. I mean, just, you know, just by accident.

I'm sorry, buddy. For sure. How old was he? He's your older brother? Just a little bit older than me i'm i'm 59 now so he would have been he's yeah just like he would have been 60 61 was he struggling with the thing he well i mean i i don't want anybody to feel sad for me or my brother i mean he lived such an insane life as you know people that do and they've lived a thousand lives they should have been dead when he was 12.

It's just so crazy. 12's young, but yeah. And so, you know, he did every drug that was available. I mean, and he did everything that he wanted to do. So, yes, very sad in a sense, but, you know, when... No stone unturned. Right. Yeah.

He didn't hide from anything that was scary or dangerous, like you and I. I mean, I always was afraid of stuff. I'm a bit of a pussy, yeah. For sure. I mean... He would be racing motorcycles on drugs. No. You know, like, whoa.

Yeah. And just like, man. I've always sort of looked up to those guys, you know, and like, you know, aspire to be that guy. But, you know, I'm the guy. I'm like, all right. So I push down two and it's in second. You know, I like, I mean, there's just those dudes. It's just that they don't think they're going to die and they don't.

Well, no, that's what I mean. He was exactly like that. So it's so I mean, not that it still wasn't wasn't a bad or horrible, but it was, you know, there was a thousand times that I thought I was going to get that call. And I and I didn't, you know, and eventually you get that call. And yeah. So what was the funeral like? Did you do like a Flaming Lips, Nora Lean style? He sort of I think it was by his request we took his uh as his ashes yeah the cremated ashes

in a big thing and we drove around the racetrack where he would race on drugs yeah now that's gonna that sounds bad but it's all i mean i've done drugs you've done drugs no just don't race a car i haven't i haven't done like that type of those of that level oh i don't know i would just which ones was he racing on everything i mean if you think yeah like everything which is yeah yeah which made him like a super hero superhuman human. So you took the ashes and you drove around? Drove around the back. We sat in the back of a truck, and then we'd spread them out. You and your other brother?

Yeah, yeah. It was absurd. It was great. And that's what you want. You know what I mean? You want something like that just to be like, this is the way he lived his life. This is great. And it wasn't, it's not overly sad

when I, you know, things like this happen, but it allows you to think of them a lot, you know, which is really the great thing. You get to remember them and think about them. And we're not, I wasn't young when this happened. So, you know, when these things happen if you're a teenager in your

even early 20s, you know, it's devastating. But by the time you get to be in your 50s. Yeah, by the time you get to have the thoughts of like any day now, you know, right? Yeah. Then it's different. Or that you're just used to, you know, you're, I don't know, you know, there's a time in your life when you have, you just have never thought about it. You've never thought that you're going to die or anything is going to die. You just have never given any thought.

And then you get this, such a punch in the face, such a, the wind blowing out of you. And you don't ever, you know, for me, I don't ever want that again. I always want to be prepared and always want to be a little bit aware that there's tragedy out there all the time. What was the first time?

Because like, you know, with, you know, look, my best buddy in high school, he died. I've known him plenty of people that died, you know, like. What happened? Well, he died after high school. I don't know. Oh, I got you.

But not long. I mean, he was in his 20s. Yeah. But he had this massive asthma attack. It was tragic, but I, you know, but it was like, what I experienced with Lynn dying is, you know, ongoing, is it shifts your DNA, man. But it was like what I experienced with Lynn dying is ongoing.

It shifts your DNA, man. I mean, it's like there's some other thing that clicks in when somebody you love dies tragically or something is removed from you that dramatically that you were so connected to. Something clicks in. I don't think it's unusual. I think it's totally human I think it's there's this every cell in your body realizes like the loss but also like this shit is fragile you know and that

you know and it's it's here one second and it's gone well and there really is the world is chaos all the time when was the first time you experienced that have you experienced that well i talk about it in in in a song in one of our new songs so i've talked about really in american

head yeah on american head it's called it's called mother please don't be sad and so it's a it's a story of when i was working at this uh did you have the long john Silvers in Albuquerque? Of course we had Long John Silvers. Not of course. I mean, not everybody. We had all of them. We even had some that other places don't. We've got Blake's Lotta Burger.

Don't know that one. Right. Do you have Whataburger in Oklahoma? We have Whataburger. You had Whataburger? That wasn't everywhere. Do you have Piggly Wiggly? Do you have Piggly Wiggly? No.

Oh, do you have Circle K? Circle K, yeah. Okay, good. All right. I mean, we would be a little bit ofiggly? No. Oh, do you have Circle K? Circle K, yeah. Okay, good. All right. I mean, we would be a little bit of a test market. Like, if it works. Do you remember when Schlotzky's showed up?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a big day. Yeah, yeah. I remember when I was in high school. We're about the same age. We'd go drive. When there was a new fast food place, you're like, holy fuck, this Schlotzky's amazing. Oh, yeah, yeah. It almost felt fancy.

I remember when Wendy's happened. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was a big day the the fresh square burgers i know i don't know why like back then it just sort of seemed like now we get to have more you know and fast food i don't i mean it is good you know what i mean it's like of course it's good you know and i used to get cravings for mcdonald's cheeseburger just straight up up. Wow. Just a McDonald's cheeseburger. Yeah. And not even with fries. Just like, if I'm going to eat it, I'm going to eat it.

Yeah, and it doesn't really taste like a cheeseburger. It just tastes like a McDonald's cheeseburger. Exactly. Do you remember when the Big Mac happened? We were kids. Yeah, yeah. We were alive for that. I mean, it used to be.

That was a messy sandwich. It still is. Yeah. I'm like, yeah. I don't know why they never. Have you had one lately? You ever had one? Well, someone had one and then they were trying to eat it in the car, even though I was driving,

it was still messy even for them. I'm like, that's just too, you're right. It's like, I mean, compared to like the cheeseburger, the cheeseburger is like, it's just. It's tight. It's tight. Isn't that fun? It's tight, man. You don't have to worry about it. You canburger is like, it's just tight. It's tight. It's in that bun. It's tight, man. You don't have to worry about it.

You can't even see it. Yeah. It's all like sealed in there. The Big Mac, it's got that sauce, man. It's got those little squares of lettuce around the outside of it, and it's just flopping everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

But Long John Silver's. Yeah, but they're not around even now. No. No, they're not. It was a big undertaking, the Long John Silvers. Like there was a costume that people had to wear. It was. I guess everyone wears a costume at a fast food place.

No, but I mean, I would work not every Saturday, but when I would work on the Saturday, I would have to wear the pirate outfit with a patch that went over your eye. Come on. Really, it was hard were you the pirate or were you working were you working behind the register were you hired to be the pirate i'd be cooking yeah with that with an eye patch yeah and you know it's difficult you know i mean like i it last in like the two or three years ago i was wearing a an eye patch when i would when we'd perform as the flaming lips you know but i would have a hole in it and i could see out of it you know what was it why'd you wear it was it just to look crazy you know just to be it wasn't some sort of reference point to your youth

no it started purge a demon i had get the get the long john silvers out of me well i i had it because i have these confetti launchers these handheld confetti launchers have about 50 of them i shoot them all during the show yeah and they're in a big like uh drum uh case yeah so i can grab them and whatever i want right and one night i grabbed one and the trigger is you know it's connected to a co2 cartridge and the trigger is just a little thing. If you pull it, it shoots out. Well, I grabbed it and the trigger got caught and it shot me right in the eye. It's got a lot of velocity, you know. Yeah.

And it hit my eye so. That's a violent celebration. Shooting yourself in the face with a confetti gun. Just when we're getting ready to go on stage yeah yeah and it and it hit my eye so hard that i couldn't tell if like half my head was gone or if i was fine you know it's like it just you don't know for a couple of minutes if this is yeah and i held my head and i said i went over to one of the guys because it's all we're all getting ready to play and it's all dark and lights are out yeah and i said look in my eye and see if it's just a big

hole there yeah and i pulled away and they were like that doesn't look like nothing you see you really were in that much shock that you're like weren't clear whether your eye was not in your socket well it's like it is hit so hard it was like like it's like numb you know it's like you're waiting for the pain right right it would have been blood and shit well or or was like like it's like numb you know it's like you're waiting for the pain right right it would have been blood and shit well or or it's or it's just a hole for like 30 seconds and then the water and then the blood is stuck in your eye socket but everybody's like yeah it doesn't look like anything but i couldn't even see you know and so for most of the show and it doesn't matter that's what shows are you do what

you got to do you know um and i really was very thankful um like i never realized what having two eyes how great it is really because take it for granted well of course you know and there i was this whole time just like man you know yeah yeah, like even this distance that we have right now to the microphone, you know, it's all. Right. You've got to have the depth perception with just one. Yeah. Everything's flat. I'd be hitting my face and I'd be just, you know, there's a lot of stuff going on.

So this Long John Silvers. So, this Long John Silver's. You know, back then, there just is no reference. I don't even know if I'm 17 or 18, but I started working there when I was 16 years old. Kept working there into the early 90s. So, started in 1977. Kept working, not exactly all the time, but back and forth until early 90s. Early 90s? When we got signed to Warner Brothers.

You worked at Long John Silver's on and off for. I did. A decade? 11 or 12 years. Yeah. Oh, my God. I know. I mean, I built up so much.

So much what? Vacation time. We could go on tour for six weeks and I would still get, I'd still get paid. Really? You were a lifer. they you know they did you ever wear the outfit on stage no no i mean by then it wasn't much it was just a one of those silly shirts yeah bandana but i but i would i don't you know no of course it looked cool enough sure but so there so there's a famous murder that happened in Oklahoma City, the Sirloin Stockade murders. I remember those. And it was a couple of – a guy and his brother and his wife went around to a couple of places and robbed the restaurants and would put the employees into the walk-in cooler and then

shoot them through the head oh my god yeah and and and just mysteriously like there's no um i remember it happened and um you know there's no there's no there's no clues it's like you know who would do this you know what's going on you know on? It's just random stuff. So it's big news. It's on the news every day. It's in the paper every day and all this. And if you work at a restaurant, a fast food restaurant, this stuff is just in your mind. You're vulnerable.

Yeah. So we're about to close up, and these guys run in the front door, which isn't that unusual. But then they, you know, there's like a side door where the bathrooms and then the cash register is, and they just burst through. Oh, behind, so now they're on your side. Yeah, you know, the counter is here, but then they just burst through, you know. That moment of like, what's happening? Well, you know, at first you just don't really know.

Again, it's this chaos, the chaos of the world. You have no idea what's going to happen. And suddenly it's just, man, you know, they've got these guns and they are so, they're just so pissed off. You know, they're ahead of you. You know, they're already like. They're there to scare the shit out of you. They're angry and they pissed and they want the money and you just get the feeling they'll they'll shoot you of course they would you know and they they you know get on the ground motherfuckers get on the ground and really you know just 20 seconds earlier i'm just ready to get off work i'm just

a dork cooking the last hush puppies and then you know suddenly and i don't know why and it must be the adrenaline and stuff that happens to you when this when you're it's flight or flight or something you know i really did think i was going to die i remember just on the ground on the ground and he and they're screaming at the assistant uh manager uh for her to open up the safe. And you just don't, you know, you think, well, this is because other people have been killed around the city, you know. And I really did think, I'm going to die. They're going to stop at my mother's house afterwards. I would stop there every three or four days and drop off my dirty uniform, and I would talk for a while, and then I'd go to my apartment or whatever. And I remember thinking,

my mother's going to worry where I'm at because I'm not going to show up. She's going to start thinking, it's getting late. I wonder where Wayne is. If you're dead. Yeah. And I'm thinking she's going start thinking it's getting late i wonder where wayne is and i'm thinking you're dead yeah and i'm thinking she's gonna start a worry and then that thing that you

you know you see in movies or whatever where the cops yeah you know hey you're you know are you you know wayne it works at uh long john silvers and there's been a robbery and he's been killed and you know this all just flies through your mind and i was i don't know why it's so you know that it wasn't more of a panic to do something else it was just like fuck this is how i'm gonna die like i'd never it could have i'd never thought of it before so that you thought about like maybe i should call my mom not call i mean no i know like just that that's what your thought was. Like, she's going to be worried. Yeah. And that I wanted to tell her, you know, she would just be like, why did they do this to Wayne? And I just wanted to know.

It's like, mother, this is just the chaos of the world. We weren't doing anything wrong. And this is just the way it was. I wasn't out causing trouble. And, you know, you know, it was like it was just. There's no there's no why to it. Yeah. Like, exactly. You know, and so that was it was just. There's no, there's no why to it. Yeah. Yeah. Like, exactly.

You know, and so that was the part, me from beyond, wanted to let her know, like, this isn't, you know, this was just, I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. You know. I mean, I think about that too in light of Lynn's death. It's sort of like, you can't, it's almost like you can't, you can't ask those questions if you want to maintain your sanity. You know, like you cannot, you know, like, you know, there's these moments where you have these God moments or whoever in the movies or whatever, where someone dies and you're like, why? There's no fucking answer to that.

It's not like that in real life. No, no, there is no answer. And there's not, it's better that there's no answer. You know, to me, this, I wasn't, I mean, I've known plenty of people that have looked for trouble and, you know, have deserved to get killed. I've known, you know, there's plenty of that. But this was just a random. Right. And sure, they were robbing us and this, you know, they were in the wrong or whatever.

But it didn't hit me like that. It didn't strike me like. So how does this know play into the to the to the is there a theme to the record well i think the chaos of the world is that what you're dealing i think we just started to to sort of highlight we had a few songs that started to seem like we were singing about some you know nostalgic 70s stuff now i'm almost 60 years old but steven the other songwriter yeah you know in the group he's eight or nine years younger than me but he's you know he was he was in a big family like i was had older brothers uh-huh drugs violence crazy shit you know yeah so a lot of the things that we we would be talking about it's happening to me

when i'm 17 or 18 but a lot of stuff's happening to him when he's like 10 or 11 you know um from that era same type of stuff that's interesting so they're they're like the way things impress upon your mind are different well or just that it's drugs it's 70s it's older brothers well yeah because like death you know like even i remember like i'm 57 so you're a couple years older than It's drugs. It's 70s. It's older brothers. It's death. Even I remember, I'm 57, so you're a couple years older than me, I guess. Don't you remember when you were a kid, eight or nine, and everything was the 60s? Well, yeah. I was born in 63, so 69, I'm six or seven.

And just what everything looked like, what people looked like what people look like it was like you just wanted to be part of that shit it was cool groovy man well and when you're young it is it's quite easy

to be believe the utopia optimism that was happening for me it was wonderful I just wanted to have long hair in those pants

man I still do you do you're in it you've got all the pants and long hair in those pants. Man, I still do. You do. You're in it. You've got all the pants and long hair you want. But so this, you know, this awakening when you're 17 or 18 years old, this, it's like what you talked about. Suddenly it's like, this is, this shit is fragile. Yeah.

Which I'd never, I don't know. You know, you know people in high school that get killed school that get killed, but it doesn't happen to you. I always knew it in my mind. However panicky I was, like, I don't want to die. Am I sick? Am I dying? And then sometimes if you freak yourself out enough or you're in a situation like you were, you feel the proximity, right?

So there's an insane existential panic there. But when someone you love goes, then you're like, wow. Then it's like all of a sudden you're like, it's a different feeling. It's tangible, it's real, and you're dealing with an absence. You can't make that up in your head. You feel it. You feel it more. Well, I mean, I think in movies and even in music, it's such an accelerated thing that it does. You know, you can feel nothing at the very beginning of a song.

It starts to play and suddenly you're feeling all this stuff. Yeah. And then the song ends and you're kind of back to your regular life, you know. And then you play it again to see if it'll work again. Which it kind of does. Sure. If you're careful, it'll work your whole life. But, you know, real life doesn't just stop like that.

You know, the flow doesn't just flow over you. It's just always kind of there, you know. Yeah. But I remember after this happened, just being aware like anything could happen. Right. You know, I still am like that now. You know, like even staying across town. Yeah.

You know, I still think someone could break into this house. I mean, you know, you see murder documentaries all the time. I know. Every night I bought a bat. You know, I got a bat. But, you know, like. You know, but here's what I was thinking of. Like, I think that all the time.

You know what I got? I got some hornet spray. There you go. See, and instead of a gun or a bat, it's like, I don't want to shoot you. I don't know if I'm going to get the bat in time. The thing is, I've got an alarm on my house. You've got an alarm, don't you? Well, I do, but I don't really set it because it goes off so much.

So you can't set it? Yeah. Yeah, my fear is like that someone's gonna hit me in the head when I'm sleeping yeah it's very

it's very specific I've talked about it with other people you mean like they just come in and bludgeon you to death to me that's the scariest thing

well yeah it's like how Bob Crane died I was thinking exactly Bob Crane he was staying in some sleazy hotel with some weird buddy.

Something went wrong in his buddy's head. Well, we're lucky. I mean, I've got a big house. Got a weird buddy? We've got dogs and we have some element. But what I was thinking, though, too, is I grew up in New Mexico. There was guns everywhere. You're in Oklahoma. You knew friends with guns everywhere you're in oklahoma you knew

friends with guns but we didn't we didn't have them no i didn't have them but i'm just saying that like the the menace of it yeah like i remember like you know we used to drive around you know you get your license when you're 15 in new mexico driving around go where the kid where the kids are and like some dude i know like someone they were out they were driving around they got smart with somebody some guy fucking shot a 38 into the door didn't kill my friend but you know he had that bullet hole in his fucking door well again i know it's like we're i mean we're lucky that we're i guess you know here i'm like all of it yeah we're actually i'm speaking from some sort of weird white privilege i mean there's fucking war zones in this country, and I'm talking about this one event with a.38

that almost hurt my friend. Well, no, I think we're just lucky. I mean, I think, and I don't even want to be around it. I mean, there were protests, you know, earlier in the summer, and especially in Oklahoma, it's like, I mean, maybe it's probably true everywhere now. But I didn't want to go just, I mean, we have a little baby. And it's like, I just didn't want to be, even if I'm not being specifically shot at,

it's like just some place where bullets are going and people are pissed off. You don't want to raise the possibility of you dying exponentially just by being at a place. Yeah, yeah. I've had moments in my life, though. Here's what I was going to ask you. Because the weird thing about death is that I've definitely, and I'm sure you have as well, just given our lives, I've definitely been in situations that were not going good.

Yeah. But in my mind, I'm like, this isn't when it's going to happen. Oh, I see. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I've definitely had that. Because it kind of reminded me of being on the floor. But it was the opposite.

You felt that it might be the end of you. But I've been in cars with fucked up people going over. Like, you know, where it's sort of like, he's going too fast. And I think he just ran over a curb. And I'm in the backseat going, it's not going to happen like this. Oh, I see. It's not going to happen. See, I think I It's not going to happen. This ain't where it's going to happen.

I think I would have just been, I mean, I would just be so certain. Like, why wouldn't it? I mean, we talked about the plane crashes. I mean, people will say that to me. I can't do that anymore. People will say, well, you know, there was a plane crash yesterday. So now today, of course, it's not going to crash today. How could that happen?

I'm like, that's bullshit. It's like they happen all the time. I never. They don't happen all the time. Well, they really don't. They really don't. But when you're on one, you think, well, why wouldn't it happen? I mean, I guess I never.

Did I pull the short straw on this? Well, I mean, I don't. You're more likely to die in a fucking car well i know and then if i really didn't think it was going to work i just wouldn't get on i wouldn't buy a plane ticket but it's only once you sit there now you can almost like fly privately and on a major airline because no one's fucking i don't think a lot of people are flying right now i know i i haven't yet no me neither are you kidding me drove to fucking New Mexico. I almost lost my mind. You stop for gas.

But drive. Well, but that's not that hazardous now. I mean, really? I mean, there was no. When I was driving, I got to Needles, California. Right. Not even out of California. Before Arizona.

Yeah. And I walk in and there was no distancing. Half the people were wearing masks. Oh, shit. People were talking. I had to piss. And I'm like, after that, I'm like pissing outside you know well we we pee a lot outside yeah yeah yeah fuck that well i know i know but i mean so in that way i i suppose we were more used to it because yeah

and and and now the you know the idea that your hands are touching it, it doesn't feel as scary as it was. Yeah, you know, you've got to be. It's just like you know what to do. You know what I mean? Well, I understand, though. You go into those places where it's just too many people. Too many people. And they're sort of like, what is happening?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the album you sent me before, the King's Mouth album, that was a big symphony thing, right? I forget what all I've sent you. So the King's Mouth is a big, a big symphony thing, right? I forget what all I've sent you. So the King's Mouth is a big, no, it's part of an art installation. Oh, that's right. So which one was this with the symphony? The symphony one was recorded,

I think 2016 with the Colorado Symphony. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's amazing. It's amazing, amazing. I can't imagine for like you, like to have that interpreted like that who did the score of something like that it took a couple of years to sort of organize it but i

mean luckily there's symphonies around the country that really do it all the time so they're kind of you know always saying somebody have to make it a score yeah yeah yeah i i forget the guy's name but we we were we were working with him a lot you know did that feel? Well, to tell you the truth, I mean, we had done a few things living in Oklahoma City, you know, with the Oklahoma City Symphony and stuff. Yeah. And it's kind of chaos. It's a theme. Well, they have their way of working, you know, because they really work every day, like a nine to five job, you know. And, you know know we're used to

working well i mean you know we're a band and we just work and work and work aren't they just a bigger band not really i mean because they're just such a giant ensemble you know and it and and they and they do lots and lots of music you know it's not like i mean i'm doing just our music yeah you know i'm not doing everybody's music. I'm just doing my music. So we spend a lot of time making every detail about it. I think you relate to this. Mostly so we're not petrified when we go up there to perform. We feel like we've got this.

We've worked on it. We've worked on it. And when in doubt, I've got the confetti can. Well, yeah. But we just work on it. Right and when in doubt i've got the confetti can well yeah but you know we just work on it right of course sort of feel like yeah even if it goes badly we've done everything we can right you know what i mean yeah yeah but with these orchestras you know you just have to work so fast because they're just you're just another thing that they're doing not to dismiss it but it's like

you know they're used to working fast and they're good and they'll they're not worried about it that much and so it's like oh my gosh you know you're working on something that i want to work on a song You know, they're used to working fast and they're good and they're not worried about it that much. And so it's like, oh, my gosh, you know, you're working on something that I want to work on a song for like a week. And they're like, we got 20 minutes. And you're like, oh, my gosh. Yeah. Really? So, and it's a big ensemble.

I mean, you're on a big stage and we're used, I mean, we're wimps, you know, we're a rock band, but we have in-ear monitors and we have floor monitors and, you know, just so you can hear everything that's going on. And then you get there and everything is so quiet. You can't really hear, you know, whatever the horn section is playing over the string section. You know, it's just, it's a panic, you know. But by the time we got to do this thing this performance at the big red rocks amphitheater there outside of denver we were prepared like this is you know you're not you're not gonna be able to tell really what's going on but we're gonna we're just gonna be in the zone and we're gonna do it and you've been to red rocks before that though right plenty of times but not with

the orchestra you know just playing as you know just playing as a rock band or whatever but so it was it was wonderful but you know it's of just, you don't really know, is this going good or bad or what? And then the audience screams and you think, oh, well, it must be going good. And then you think, yeah, but they'd like anything. Well, in a way, but you kind of- No, it's just the insecurity part. No, I'm sure it was amazing. But then listening to it afterwards and having some time to sort of, you know,

hone in on the bits that, so, yeah, it's utterly amazing. And then, you know, but it's not, it's not, it's the same as listening to it isn't the same as the experience of being there

because it's just too. I can't imagine it. Like, I just find that, I guess I was asking because, like, when I've been in a symphony space where a symphony's playing, I'm just sort of like, holy fuck.

Oh, yeah. Like the force of it. Oh, me, both of us. Yeah, yeah. It's insane because it's kind of mysterious is how it builds. I know. And there's all this stuff happening. Yeah, it's utterly amazing.

It's like this music that no one, like 10 people give a shit about. It's like it's so profound. Like, you know, I don't understand anything about classical music, but I just remember one time I was in New York. I had nothing to do. I was there for a thing. And they just, that was across from Lincoln Center. And I was just like, I'm going to go over there and see if there's some classical music

I can watch. Just anything. Yeah. I didn't give a fuck. What difference is it going to make? Well. I don't know. Right. Yeah. You know, a few of the things right you know mahler's ninth or whatever that would be

that would be me as well yeah but it was just like a beethoven thing wasn't even a full symphony i went in and i'm like what is happening like it was amazing of course it was amazing i know it really is i know i know and it's like and and and people think it's it's oh it's that kind of music i wouldn't like of it but you're there, it's powerful. I don't buy the records. I don't do nothing. Yeah. But when I go, I'm like, you know, I can barely.

See, this is what I mean about your show. It's like, see, people would be guarded like, oh, yeah, I know. I know classical music. Like, oh, don't give a fuck. I don't even know. But I love it. It's at the same time. I know.

And you're like, I don't buy the records. I don't have any records. Like, I'm trying's at the same time. I know. And you're like, I don't buy the records. I don't have any records. Like I'm trying to do the jazz thing. And I'm getting in there. You know, I name some guys. I got guys I like with the jazz thing. Yeah, yeah. I understand.

Yeah, yeah. I'm the same way. I'm the same way. Yeah, you know. But who are your jazz guys? It would be the same as everybody. You know, I'd have like most of the Miles Davis stuff. I'd have most of the John Coltrane.

I would have some. Do you listen to any of that out there shit? Yeah, yeah. Cecil Taylor? Ornette Coleman? Yeah, Coleman. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, not all the Ornette Coleman.

Albert Aylor? You ever listen to Albert Aylor? Yeah, yeah. But I'm not an expert, you know. No, me neither. I know 20 guys and there's 100,000 of them. That's exactly what I say. That jazz rabbit holes deep and the fucking thing about the weird thing about jazz

is like nothing to my ears like i can tell the difference between most of the guys that i listen to yeah yeah but in the big picture it's like you're you're it's it's the same thread well i understand yeah yeah with rock and roll you're like i know those fucking guys no one well some people would probably say the same thing about what we think is like, you know, there's the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. They're like, oh, no, don't they all sound the same? No. Who is that person? They must.

Maybe someone two generations ago. Or someone that's, you know, 18 years old now. Did you grow up with country music? Well, you know, the good country. I mean, what I call the good country music, but not really. I mean, even living in Oklahoma. Did you go up with country music? Well, you know, the good country, I mean, what I call the good country music, but not really. I mean, even living in Oklahoma. Did you go to the state fair?

Yeah, but we, you know, but even at the state fair, they played Led Zeppelin, you know. I mean, I never went to see. But Led Zeppelin didn't play the state fair. No, but they would just play like Led Zeppelin on the rides. Well, the New Mexico state fair,

like, you know, people like Roy Clark, Buck Owens, Willie Wayland. Yeah, I come through those guys would play jones yeah and if it was if it was like one of them or something but i wouldn't you know when we were younger we wouldn't have known too many too many i think i was just wondering if you had it in the house or something no i mean my my parents were from pittsburgh pennsylvania and they't, I mean, we had some music, but not very much. Back in the day, there was only, before anybody had just a bunch of albums. Growing up, we had a few Beatles albums. My mother had the Tom Jones records.

She loved Tom Jones. But not like tons of albums. No. My parents had a few. Yeah. So this new record, how long did it take you to make it?

If you take, like, it sounds like you're pretty meticulous. I don't know how the process works. Well, we're lucky because I have a studio at my house

and then we always work with Dave Fridman, our producer, up in his studio up in New York. But we always have, like, three or four things going on.

Yeah. You know, so you're always kind of, you know, there's some deadlines are here and some deadlines are far away. And, you know, the idea that you always are always doing it, I think that's why you're so good at your thing here. You know what I mean?

You're just always doing it. Yeah. And it's not like, man, if we don't get this one right, it's over. It's like. Yeah, but I'm just talking to people and staying engaged. I mean, you got it like, you know, you're sort of like, can we make that guitar sound different, or is this what we're doing? Well, I mean, yeah. But I mean, I think creative people are just like messing around with stuff.

Well, yeah, stay in it. As long as you're engaged with the process. I get what you're saying. I mean, I love it. Clearly. I love making records, but I love- But you paint, and you make movies, and you- Everything, yeah. I mean, I love making records, but I love- But you paint and you make movies and you- Everything, yeah.

I mean, I just- You make babies? Yeah. You made a fucking baby since the last time I saw you. When I talked to you, I think you were producing a Keisha record or something. We had done some stuff with Keisha, yeah. Keisha. I like how you called her Keisha.

I don't know. I don't know who she is. I don't know one song. You know, I don't know one- And I have nothing against her. I'm sure she's great, but I don't know. Yeah, yeah don't know one song you know i don't know one and i and i have nothing against her i'm sure she's great but i don't know yeah i know the kids liked her that i i totally understand where you're coming from yeah like so you worked with her and then since then you you went through a miley period it seems well we're actually staying at miley's one of miley's houses

that's why i'm here in la yeah yeah i mean just to hang out with her? Well, my wife, she's here as well. My wife wanted to come out here for her birthday because she didn't want, and this sounds bad, I'm speaking for her, so most of her friends won't listen to our show

and you and me talk. Yeah. Her friends aren't going to get mad at you. You think you're going to be okay? Well, I just know we went to a wedding about a month ago in Bozeman, Montana. And it was outside.

Yeah. And it's breezy. And everybody's kind of aware we're going to do masks. We're going to do the thing, you know. But the fucking reception starts. And the DJ's loud. People are getting drunk. Masks are coming off.

Fuck. You know. And I'm not saying that. I mean, everybody's talking to everybody. loud. Yeah. People are getting drunk. Masks are coming off. Fuck. You know, and I'm not saying that, I mean, everybody's talking to everybody. Right, sure. But I can tell there's five or six dudes

that are, they got to talk to me. Yeah. You know, they're in the music or whatever. And they're getting drunk and the music is loud

and that's what the problem is. Sure, man. It's that it's loud and they're going to go right here in your face. Yeah, well, nobody, but it's also the problem is like nobody wants to be living like this and everybody

there's that part of them that's sort of like it'll be okay and it's as soon as you have one cocktail the it'll be all right well yeah then you're just fucked yeah yeah and especially you know five or six dudes and so and it is it's awkward you and i talked about this walking it's awkward because you don't at some point you're like, we've been going for five minutes, but now I don't want to do it. You know, you're always it's always like. Freaks out. I just talked to Ray Sehorne and she went to some outdoor party with people she knew. And there's only like six people and they were just sitting at a table and she freaked out.

She had to go. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Yeah. So I luckily I had an excuse i was going to go back to our airbnb and check on our little baby and grandmother and stuff but part of me was glad that i got to leave because i was like this is so we didn't want to have any parties or anything

right oh i see what the point is and just to just to you know and and i mean so many people will want us to do something especially with her and so i think she was like i'm not going to be here and we'll just be in an isolated house in la and luckily you know uh this house of miley's that we're in it's it's very isolated everybody got tested and even the even the security guards and all that so um so we kind of feel like we're in the right even though we're you know we're traveling around and stuff i think we're in a good that's good yeah yeah i mean it's good and you're having a nice time oh it's great i mean until the now everybody's worried about the other fucking fire yeah i know there's no end to it dude i i thought i was gonna get out and get away and i went to new

mexico and that was on fire like i was like i'm just gonna go to albuquerque no i thought but your stuff looked great. No, no. By the time I got to Taos, by the third day, it started to clear up. It wasn't a fire like here. They were just letting it burn off. But it was definitely that haze. But there's not, I mean, even coming to you, you know, just driving over here. I mean, the fires aren't right here, are they?

No, no, no, no. I mean, they're closer than I like, but they're not just up north now there's one not far but in Albuquerque I drove up to Towson they were right outside of Santa Fe in Nambi but there wasn't a panic there they were just sort of like no one lives up there it's hard to get up there or they're going to let them burn off but it did fuck the sky up

but so wait so how old what's your boy's name his name is Bloom like a flower I thought he was a girl for so long well I know he kind of looks like a girl if you if you don't know yeah but you know that's that's here's what it's so funny blonde hair and yeah he's a beautiful kid yeah thank you but you started sending pictures of that me you started texting me pictures of you and that kid like the day after it was born and i and then they can't they come sporadically it's not like you and i text a lot but every so often a picture will come. And for a while there I was like, is he

trying to get me to have a baby? No, see I would always wonder about that sometimes. I'm like, I see what he's doing. He's happy and he's trying to get me to have a baby. Yeah, see I just sort of feel like this is what I do with texting. I just sort of say, hey, this is what I'm doing. Sure, no, I love him. I think it was just me having a conversation with myself. Maybe I have to have a baby. See, I considered that about you. I thought he might be thinking that, but then I'll send you some picture of some food or something, too. Some food or you in a crown. Just anything. Here's what I'm doing. What are you doing?

Here's what I'm doing. This like rays coming out of eyes. Yeah, sure. Or part of it is saying, I'm a lot cooler than you are. And here's pictures to prove it. No, I just think that's the wonder of what you can do now. What's that thing that you sent me? What's that one where you're wearing both two of you, you're wearing makeup and you've got a crown on? What was that from? I don't know.

Who was you and some other guy? I don't know. And you're blue and one of them's got a crown? Yeah, yeah. That was, we did I don't know. Who was you and some other guy? I don't know. You're blue. And one of them got a crown. Yeah, yeah. That was we did like a Christmas video. It was just this weird picture of you in makeup with a crown with another guy. Totally. I'm blue.

Yeah. And I texted back. I texted back, finally. Well, no. I mean, that's what you do. Yeah. I mean, there's no way we would ever just call each other. Hey, what are you doing?

Do you do that with anybody? No. I would never even's no way we would ever just call each other. Hey, what are you doing? Do you do that with anybody? No. I would never even liked it when we did it, you know. But just doing something that takes a second. Yeah, I like it. And it takes you a second. Yeah, throw it back. I know what's going on with Wayne.

But let me ask you, though. Yeah. Like, how did this, like, I mean, how the baby, because, like, I i can see that you know the experience of it is is profound and that like you you're you know you're it's that you're these pictures of you where you're sort of like holding the baby and even your vanity cannot compete with the love that you have for the baby sure yeah yeah well i think did that come off as an insult? No, that's great. I totally understand that.

You know, I think everybody has some level of a desire to nurture. I mean, even if you're just, you know, even just with your, if it's your friends or your family or whatever, you know, deep in you, there must be this. Some people obviously don't have it and they're serial killers or whatever. They're called the president. Yeah. You're right. And I just don't think you can ever really satisfy that unless you have an actual baby. Right.

You know, so I feel like. Cats don't count? All that does. I think that's why you have dogs and cats and friends and everything, you know. It's not the real game until you get the human baby. Well, I think having this, now this centralized entity that you know

without you is not going to, it's not, you know, it's not going to survive. Not going to make it. Yeah. And like you're, maybe the dogs and cats are the same way, but like your friends and, you know, your family and stuff, you know, they really not going to make it. Yeah. And like you're maybe the dogs and cats are the same way. But like your friends and, you know, your family and stuff, you know, they really are going to be fine. Yeah.

You know, but you somehow care about them. You care deeply about them. You want everything to be all right. So I think for me, I think now having an actual baby that, you know, you want to have your energy for and you want to be you know you want to be awake and smart and be there all the time i think it just says this is important and these other things aren't that important not other things meaning music and friends and all that no yeah but there's a lot of gaps yeah in when you're doing things that are you know you're just like well i guess if they think it's important it must be sure but now i

sort of feel like i can in my mind i can say this isn't that important to me i'm not gonna sit here yeah you know because i got a kid or just to waste your time and waste your energy or to waste your emotional brain on well it's interesting now even with this ice with the quarantine or whatever is that for better for worse people are spending a lot more time with their families and their kids. Yeah. I imagine at the age that he's at, it's like great. Well, I know I I hesitate to even say it. I mean, it is great, but I don't like to say because I know so many people are struggling without jobs and families are sick and all that. But I know I mean, for for us i mean and this goes back to like the way your your show is you know it's like this element of time is it time is part

of everything that we do everything that we do is like you know it's the time that you spend with it is part of the equation yeah but you you know, being a reasonably successful band that gets to travel around the country, play festivals, play shows, get invited to crazy parties, everything, I say yes to everything. And you just don't have any time. Sure.

You know, you end up being on a, you're on a plane, you're at a sound check, you're doing a show, you're at a hotel. And all of it it on one level is amazing sure but there's just no time to even care that it's amazing yeah i mean there's times when i would just say i'm just going to sleep on the bus even though there's a five-star hotel right there i just don't want to get up and go in there because it's just another yeah it's just a bed and a toilet i've got that right here i mean, I would be very thankful that it's all there,

but there's just no time to like to appreciate it. Assess and take it in. Yeah. You know, I always say like when you're the best meals you ever have are because you're hungry, not because they're the best meals made by the greatest chefs ever. Too much pressure. It's just when you're hungry and you get to eat something good, it's amazing. But if you're not hungry or you've already eaten something, I mean, that can be the best thing ever. In front of you, you're kind of like, oh, well. And I think a lot of our experiences would be like that, where you are just flying through things so quickly. I noticed that, too.

A lot of the noise has been turned down right now you know the pace has changed obviously i'm still doing this but i i was talking about this this morning about how it's the same with like what you said about food there's no silence better than the one after noise yeah right so but i mean i'm i think that also that i am feeling that as well, where it's like, because you and I are similar in age and we've been working our whole lives to get to where we are and to do what we like to do. And we continue to do it, whether we like it or not. We do it. I love it. No, no, no.

I mean, I love it too. But when you say yes to everything, you know, in your head, it's sort of like, this might be a little rougher than the other one. But you do it. You know what I mean? Because it's what we do. Well, I say yes. And sometimes in my mind I think, I hope it doesn't work out. But I have to say yes right now.

Sure, sure. I hope it doesn't suck too. There's that. Right? See, that's why I love your show. Because, look, I can't say that. But you can. You could if you felt it, but my point is that now that there's literally, like, you can't even be like, well, where do we got to be?

Where's that band going? Are we playing in the bigger room? Why are we in that room? All those questions, they don't apply because no one's doing shit. Well, I know. I know. So there's this piece. Right?

So the brain is not comparing. The brain is not full of dread or or anticipation of something happening. And you can focus on, you know, the apocalypse and and gratitude. There's this weird mixture of like things are scary, the chaos of life. But here you are with a baby and here you are with this life that you've built for yourself and you have the time to be grateful. Absolutely. Absolutely. And knowing that people don't have jobs and I have a great, great job that's allowed me, you know, some some leeway here. And and some people aren't very healthy. And I'm I'm yeah, I'm healthier than ever. It's hard. It's a hard place to be.

I started crying about that yesterday. I was talking to a therapist that comes to my house again, which is a luxury. But I just, the sort of weird balance of like, I didn't think I was going to make it. I didn't think I was going to have a life in this business. I mean, up until I started this podcast, it wasn't looking good. I wasn't making money. I couldn't sell a ticket. Whatever. You mean as a standup? Yeah, whatever. I just didn't think I was going to, you know, be able to even live in my house anymore. So now

here I am, everything worked out, you know, a lot of ways. And now, you know, we've got the plague, we've got the apocalypse, you know, I'm experiencing tragedy, but like, I have to still realize that I'm alive and there's a lot to be grateful for. And a lot of people are suffering. And I have to balance like how do I continue to be empathetic with my with with also experiencing gratitude, but also carrying a certain amount of fear and pain. It's tricky shit. Well, I think. You handle it amazing, if you ask me.

Thanks. To hear you talk about it, because that's, you're able to talk about it. Right. And you talking about it made me feel like, man, you know. Yeah. You made me feel good about all this stuff. And even feel good about, like, what's happening to you. And so, I don't know.

I think that's just part of the thing. But I think with the baby, though, I got to like you know on any given day just to look at the kid like you know look i'm not i don't think i i i don't need i i don't i'm not i don't think i need a kid right right but i do understand more as time goes on the sort of joy and focus that like despite everything else being what it is and the chaos in the world or whatever the amount of love that transpires between you know you and your kid and your wife and around this family unit has got to be just well yeah it has to erase everything well i mean when he's when he's there in in his moment i mean you just that's it's easy to get i'm idealizing i'm forgetting about the part where you're going like oh god when's this gonna stop no i don't think that okay i mean i think i would have it when i was younger

you know i think i'm very lucky that it's happened to me in my late 50s and i i feel like i've i for me i kind of feel like this is my third life you know there was my life before i got laid on the floor at long john silvers and then i that was And then I got to live my second life where I said, fuck it, I'm going to do music. I'm going to do art and do this thing. And now I feel like I'm living like a third life. Yeah. I get to do, you know.

The father thing. But see, I think what I see in you is that you know things. You understand things. It's not, hey, I'm smart. It's like I've lived and i've been i've been able to observe and listen and and so this what's happening in the world you can say it is bad and i understand it so it's horrible for some people but it's not that horrible for me and even though these horrible things are happening to you i feel i would feel the same way it's like my pain isn't, it's not the same type of pain because I'm optimistic still.

You are. Even when all this stuff is on you, you know. You're optimistic, guy. You seem to be. I think so. I think that's the thing that we became aware of when we made this record in 1999, the Soft Bolton record. I think we just never considered that we were. We thought we were going to make a record and just be like,

the world's miserable. I told you. The world is dark and people are, you know, unfair. Really? But you felt like you were that kind? Maybe I didn't listen to the earlier records close enough, but there was always sort of an uplift to it. Yeah. But I didn't, I thought, well, we we're gonna sing what's in our hearts or whatever

you know whatever you and if if we're just bitter old fools yeah well so be it yeah but you didn't you didn't you you got you know yeah but then i would hear it you made a break dude it's like you you know after softball and it's sort of like well i don't have to be bitter for a while well we weren't actually bitter it just we've sort of felt like maybe we got a i don't have to be bitter for a while. Well, we weren't actually bitter. It's just we sort of felt like maybe we got to, I don't know. I think we always envied rock stars that were kind of like miserable or something. But you guys pop though, right? But, you know, it's like, I guess, like, but no one seems to do it like you guys do. It's a weird thing when I see pictures.

Somebody this morning said, when I said you were going to come over, someone said he's going to come in a bubble. Well, I would have. I would have. You know, I mean, I've done that. Everything you do, though, you guys do is sort of surrounded with this weird kind of, you know, creativity. Like, you know, you paint. You do the bubbles. You make the movies.

It's a full, it's like, it's sort of a a kind of it's a psychedelic legacy it's the next step into this all you know other worldliness so i think that once you i don't know how much of you really lives there but it seems like a part of you does well i think that's just what creative people like you know they like having that some people some creative people are making things with saws i mean you yeah and you're making things with bubbles i would do well i would do it with everything i mean i think that's what happens i mean by by i mean saws i mean i'm not saying as a tool what i'm saying is that there's a dark creativity and then there's this thing that you're doing well yeah yeah yeah well i think i'm

very lucky in that way yeah that it's sort of like no matter what. You think that's where your creativity goes. Well. Away from the darkness. I don't I don't think intentionally. I think it's sort of like. I guess. Yeah. There's been some sad songs.

Or you just follow whatever it is that you feel. Right. And. I forget. There's been there has been some sort of some heavy themes with the robots and whatnot. Heavy but still optimistic I think. I think that's the thing that we learned about ourselves is like just doing music and doing art and doing it and doing it. And then at some

point, I mean, do you ever listen to like your old shows? Yeah. Not these, but like I've watched myself do stand up. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and we would, when you're in the middle of making, it's hard to tell, is this good, bad, stupid or amateur or whatever, you know, but when you're in the middle of making it's hard to tell is this good bad stupid or amateur whatever you know but when you when you can kind of get removed from it yeah i sometimes think i listen to some of our older records some of them are very old now you know 25 30 years ago amazing and i'm just like i i i love them i'm like these dudes they're going for it i thought i found that too like because like i they're not records but i I used to think when I was younger, I wasn't me yet. That I hadn't developed into me. And then I watch this shit from the late 80s, and I'm like, I was me?

Wow. I just wasn't confident. And I didn't have the wisdom. I wasn't comfortable with myself. But I'm definitely me. And my brain is the same. And the way I'm talking is the same. And what I'm thinking about is the same.

It just wasn't there yet. Wow. But it's me. Do you feel like you're there now? Sure. I do. I feel like that. I feel like that about you.

Yeah, I feel like that about you. Did you feel like when you were—did you feel like—did you think of yourself as not being there yet? Or did you always think we were there in the world and needed to catch up? Only in the past, you know, like maybe five or six years, you sort of feel like, okay. And part of you just doesn't want to be done yet. You know, you don't want to say, well, here I am. This is what I do. You know, I still want to do a billion different things.

I guess that's true. But there is something to be said about, like, the fearlessness of being there. Like, it's not so much I'm done. But, like, I know that the last two specials be said about the fearlessness of being there. It's not so much I'm done, but I know that the last two specials I did were the best work I've done. So if you could see that evolution, like, I'm on top of this, and I have a little room to play. Yeah, that's it, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Maybe it was someone on your show, even. One of your shows said, you know, when you have a little bit of success, you feel like you're kind of you're greased up. It's easier to do things because you can kind of even I mean, even me being able to just text you and say, hey, I'm coming out there. Can I be on the show? It's like it's like the greatest thing ever. And I'm just texting you about it. You know what I mean? So in that way, there's probably 10 000 dudes that would want to be sitting here that we wish they could text you and say hey i'm going to be in town you know well some people are like why don't you interview a normal guy just a regular guy imagine

it's going to have to happen at some point um no i think you would find no matter who you're talking you'll find them interesting of course you know yeah but i mean so for me it's that i think you feel like you've got a little bit of leeway yeah and obviously you're good you're taking risks doing what you want and you're honing in on what really works and what satisfies you and i don't know i don't know and we we could still very well lose our minds in the next couple years and never do it again i mean you know part of you doesn't really know why. Well, that's the other thing I learned about this time, this quarantine time.

It's sort of like I saved a little money, I think probably enough to get me through the rest of life. And there's part of me that's sort of like, hey, you know what, if we don't get to do anything again, I did all right. Well, man, that's great. It is. Coming from you, that's amazing.

Yeah, I'm sort of like, I don't know if I'm going to beat those last two specials. And I don't know if any of us are going to ever be the same again. So if that's the last thing, cause like I'm in no hurry to do standup at fucking drive-ins. Do you understand? Like there's a lot. Yeah.

Yeah. No, I totally understand that. Yeah. You mean like, I mean, what's going to happen? How did we perform?

What, you know, what happens now? And what is, what is, what is the point of reference? Like now, whatever we end up, if everything works out a little bit and we get through this,

it's going to be a different world. It's going to be a post-COVID world. And it's going to be like, it's a whole different sensibility. It's a paradigm shift of existence. Well, I think that's where we don't know which way to hedge our bets. Is it absolutely different from now on? We never go back to being in a crowded, sweaty room where people are screaming at each other? I wonder.

We don't know. Maybe you and I don't. But I don't know if someone that's 20 is going to say, I don't give a fuck. Sure. I mean, I don't know. Or is this the beginning of year zero? Well, they still have to have a place to go. I mean, even if you're 20 and you don't give a fuck, the club's got to be open.

Exactly, yeah. Well, that's what I keep telling people as well. It's like, you know, I don't know if we, I mean, speaking to you right now, I'm not sure when this will air, you know, but it's like I have a hundred of these space bubbles that I go in over the crowd yeah a hundred of them a hundred of them on the way to my house well they're on the way to my house now okay they just got uh manufactured in china okay and they're on the way to my house hopefully in the next couple of days and so i saw the sketch is this the concert idea well you know it started off as a as just a silly

cartoon about you know this is how you could do a concert the beginning of march right you know it started off as a as just a silly cartoon about you know this is how you could do a concert the beginning of march right you know we're all like well you know this is funny sort of or you know and then this the the the sketch of you performing in a bubble and the audience being in a bubble right right the the flaming nips of 2019 right i'm on stage and i'm in the i'm in the bubble and and it's just a normal concert and in 2020 everybody and everybody in the band and myself and the audience were all in a bubble and you're like wait a minute well well right at the beginning of the uh we're calling it still a pandemic i don't know if it was a pandemic when it started but but the people at the uh steven

cobert show right said hey would you guys be interested in doing one of these? Now we know they're called home concerts, you know. But even then we were like, yeah, you're just going to kind of do a video and then we'll air it. That's the way the show is going to be for a while. For the rest of time. Right. I mean, at the time, I think we were thinking another couple of weeks or something, you know. Yeah.

And they were the ones that suggested this. Could we make this this cartoon come to life just for like the this the Stephen Colbert show? Yeah. And I was like, yeah, let's. Sure. Let's see what we can do. They helped me get some of the space bubbles. I had a few, but I didn't have that many. And they were coming from China. So I got a few and they helped us get quite a few more and we did this show it's good that the that the the president hasn't stopped your space bubbles coming from china well we're not gonna even talk about it yeah you know that's the way i that's the way i operate like look i'm not i'm not asking permission

you know um but we got them and you know even even when we got them we still didn't know how long is this going to be going right or is it just going to be right we'll all be over or whatever so we did this concert just like four songs with 27 of us all in bubbles oh wow and it's it's ridiculous but i mean it it does work i mean i guess that's the part of it that's like well yeah i mean you you can breathe and you're separated and all that sort of stuff that absolutely works but we thought who's we're not really gonna do this right and now you know it's we're going into like, people are talking about not till next summer are we really thinking about trying concerts. And I'm like, well, I don't know if some of these places will survive till then.

I mean, the places we're talking about, remember the Canes Ballroom in Tulsa? I mean, it's famous because we live in Oklahoma. But it's the only building left standing that the sex pistols played in 1977. Oh wow. Yeah. But these are the types of venues that, you know, another six or seven months,

but I'm going to disappear. They're going to disappear. But like structurally, they're not going to disappear. It's not like buildings are going to disappear. It's businesses will disappear. But like, you know,

I, I don't know. I, I, I understand. Like I know all these and it's terrible and i want all the the venues to come back but it's not like there's somebody waiting to go in i don't know why they you know what i mean like yeah yeah why you why you can't

like i guess you can't but like it's just the idea of because there's you know people work there and it's all terrible but i mean why can't you you just put all this stuff in an induced coma? Like, they have the rest of the economy. It's not like landlords can stop charging people. Well, yeah, I think you're right. I mean, it takes a big cooperation of saying, okay, you know, all these things that we were going to be paying out every month, we're going to stop that. But it's not like that. Yeah.

Yeah, you know and i think these places are just they've they've been made in the sort of way of like it's a lot of people crammed together drunk as fuck yeah music is loud best thing ever yeah used to be anyway yeah you know and is that all going to change so a place that used to hold like 1500 people packed now is it only going to be a couple hundred people how's that going to work how are they going to make any money weird yeah i know i get it i get it i get it so i sort of am saying we're we're going to try to do shows with these space bubbles only as a way of saying this is the way i am trying to do something if everybody out there tries to do something maybe we'll really come up with a solution instead of waiting and saying, well, we're just going to wait till it goes back to normal. Because there might not be a normal to

go back to. It may not ever happen. And there may be another virus that comes. There may be 10 more waiting for us. Great. You know, I hope not. Yeah. But this could just be the beginning of the new world. Yeah. Adap adapting and just – so, yeah. It's a sad reality, but people do adapt. And I'll try to hold on to some of your optimism. Yeah. But, you know, standing in front of you, I have to say, you know, you do have that about you. I think, you know, that's part of what makes you funny is that you really are moving ahead

trying things wanting things to work loving the world yeah and you've got that shelter of being like oh i don't know what the fuck i'm doing you know yeah but but in front of you you're you're you're great yeah you're giving me a lot of hope okay good yeah i'm not i'm not dragging the everything down into a hole with me is what you're saying that's well that's good that that that that means somehow or another over the years or whatever i'm going through i don't know where i took the turn but but yeah man you know it has to do with sort of like well let's let's make the best of it right well when you started to do the the podcast yeah that's bad time that was you saying

i've i i've got to do something no i was like you know i was in trouble yeah i just gone through that fucking second divorce i was going broke i couldn't sell tickets you know i i literally thought like well i'm never going to be a big comic i'm never going to do movies I'm never going to be a big comic. I'm never going to do movies. I'm never going to do TV. And, like, I don't know how. And, like, the idea of being just sort of a B-room, you know, like, I couldn't take it. So I was, like, really suicidal. And we. You mean really? I mean, I don't think I would ever do it, but I didn't have any solutions.

Right, right. And so it was really this weird Hail Mary pass with no expectations because I'd done some radio, me and the guy who still produces the show, me, my business partner, you know, made this thing. We did this with not knowing anything. And it's just it was the thing that turned everything around. But what was why? I mean, whose idea was it to do this like a podcast podcast back then? We're still like, well, I'll tell you i we had just done something at a i just done a streaming video show long before anyone was watching those and it tanked and i was

working for a company air america and they fired us and we still had a month on the deal and they let us stay in the office and they had radio studios so i knew that corolla and jimmy pardo and a few other people were doing podcasts like comics comics. I'm like, can we try this? Can you figure out how to put it up and what we got to do? And he said yes, and we just committed to doing a new show every Monday and Thursday. Wow. And that's what we did.

And we started there in the studio in New York, and then I moved out here and started doing it in my garage. And we have done a new show without missing one since september 2009 wow wow and it was because you kind of well we got this place where we have we got the equipment we can go in there late at night no and just hijack the place and figure out what we're doing and figure out what the show is and then it kind of evolved into a show where I invited people I knew over to talk about my problems, basically. And that's... It still is.

I'm here to help you. You have. Yeah. You have. And I appreciate it. I mean, that's so... That is so punk rock. And you felt like it worked?

Well, it's like we didn't know what was up. You know, like at the beginning, you know, there was no way to make money. So, like, I was offering people swag. You know, if they sent me some money, I'd send them a T-shirt and a sticker. Like, I had a fucking house full of stickers and T-shirts and packing envelopes. And, you know, we had one advertiser. It was like Adam and Eve sex toys and shit. I mean, we knew about your podcast.

Yeah. Well, yeah. It was popular in vans. You know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah yeah the musicians have kind of figured it out but you so you did it and you thought we had no we had no expectations i just knew that i needed to stay engaged and i knew that like i knew that i was okay on this type of

mic and i knew that i could you know do it but like so many things evolved and happened and you know how it got traction. But it took a while for any of us to sort of figure out how we can make a living at it. Yeah. And then like. So even though it's succeeding in a sense, how do you make any money? You know, how do we got all these people? How do we get them to give us money? Yeah. And that sort of evolved the model. Like there was a community of us that came on

around the same time and, you know, before everyone was doing a podcast and we figured some stuff out, but it all kind of, there was a community vibe that evolved. And and you know before everyone was doing a podcast and we figured some stuff out but it all kind of there was a community vibe that evolved and uh you know now like you know it's it's you know i still love it i still get i love it in the sense that like i'm nervous and anxious and don't know what the fuck is going to happen every time i talk to somebody yeah yeah yeah i just don't know yeah and like some days i'm like oh fuck how am i what am i gonna do with that guy because you don't you don't know them or you don't right i don't know most of these people yeah yeah yeah so you don't know what's gonna happen i mean i've listened to some of your shows where i know you you know a lot about them and then i've listened to some where

you don't know anything about them and it i mean that's the that's where you're you just you just go for it that's what's so inspiring you're like um yeah here we go he's like jumping off the mountain every time i i mean i i just like talking to you yeah it's great yeah um so now let's go out into the raining ash is it is it ash but it really is just from grass fires and stuff right it's not like volcano or something no right i've been i've been in volcano ash is it somehow better that it's just half the state burning and not a volcano well i it it didn't seem i mean you know we're in oklahoma where there's tornadoes and shit all the time i never

i never consider like that it's that have you seen them up close the tornado i never have see this is the this is the ridiculous thing it's like the first time I was in Canada, I saw the fucking Northern Lights. Oh, that's nice. I know. And I'm talking to guys like I've lived here my whole life. I've never seen them. I've lived in Oklahoma my whole life. I've never seen a real tornado.

I know. I want to go chase one down. Well, you can. I don't know. You don't need to. You can. But I mean, I know. That's not the hobby you need to take up right now.

Well, I would feel stupid now if I went and chased one and then got paralyzed. But I know when they're happening, I'll drive down the road to see them. Maybe someday it'll just come down your street. Well, I kind of want it to, but kind of not. But it'll probably come down at night and I wouldn't be able to see it or something. That's the big fear. Yeah. If the dogs bark at a tornado, it's not going to go away, is it?

Well, we have the best weather guys ever. They can tell you if it's on your block or not. It's insane. So, yeah. Well, hopefully no tornadoes, but someday maybe you'll see one. I hope so. Or maybe you can facsimile it. Maybe you can make one at one of your concerts.

Maybe that'll be the next thing. Man. People in space bottles twirling around. Man. In a vortex of air. Yeah. Yeah. So now I'm just pitching ideas.

Good seeing you, Wayne. You too. I love you. I love you, man. Love you too, man. Yeah. That was Wayne Coyne talking to me here in the garage behind some plexiglass. The album is American Head.

It's the 16th album. The 16th studio album from the band Flaming Lips. You can get it now wherever you get music. Oh, yeah. I did. I should tell you about this. I did a panel thing with the cast of Glow. It had something to do with

registering voters and you know part of the deal is we do this panel i think it's available on youtube somewhere i know that's vague but it turned out to be a very emotional and kind of a cathartic thing for a lot of us because we didn't know when we took the gig or when we did the service of registering people to vote and then to do the panel that we were going to be canceled. So it was not a happy cast of GLOW per se, but it was a reflective and somewhat sad cast of GLOW, you know, talking about the show. It was an interesting thing and a touching thing to watch.

All right, so take care of yourself. Mind your mind so they don't mine your mind and i'll play some guitar similar to other guitar i've played at other times Thank you. guitar solo Boomer lives. La Fonda. Monkey. Flying cats Forever. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything.

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