WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1168 - Matthew McConaughey

Episode Date: October 22, 2020

These are appropriate times for reflection and Matthew McConaughey just went through the process of reflecting on his whole life while writing his memoir, Greenlights. Marc talks with Matthew about the revelations he encountered, the perspective he gained, and the philosophies he was able to codify in the process. They go through Matthew's upbringing in Austin, his first movie role in Dazed and Confused, his launch into superstardom, his self-imposed hiatus, and his career rebirth that saw him win an Oscar. Matthew also explains how an ad lib changed his life and why pressed jeans helped him understand how to take control of his destiny. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy?

If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need. And policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. Lock the gate! soon go to zensurance and fill out a quote zensurance mind your business all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fucksters what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it i don't know how many people are new anymore are there new people welcome if you're new

just sit over there and you'll get the hang of it all right i'm gonna talk to some of these other people that have been here for a while and then i'll talk to uh maybe someone a celebrity of some sort maybe today it might even be Matthew McConaughey. I'll be talking to Matthew McConaughey in a few minutes, but now just hang out if you're new here and let me talk to some of the people that have been here for a while. I'm not trying to exclude you. I just want you to get the hang of what's going on. So what's going on with that thing? Do you get it fixed? What's going on with your kid's arm? What's going on with your kid's foot? What's going on with your kid's rash? What's going on with your kid's arm what's going on with your kid's foot what's going on with your kid's rash what's going on with your kid's hair who did that was that on purpose how are you holding up though seriously did you get that thing done how's how's uh how's

working from home did you stop masturbating during meetings because i think you should i i think that you the vigilance necessary to get away with that, it seems challenging to some people. And also, we have to make the adjustment. It's just time to make that adjustment. All right? The one thing that this pandemic has showed us is that a lot of us, if you're fortunate... Now, look, I've been working from home a long time. At least this part of my life that you're hearing, I've been doing from my house for a long time. And back in the day, pre-plague, I would require people to come over. I would require the engagement to be live and in person. But you can't require that much every once

in a while now i can make a pretty safe situation out here i've got a plexiglass um divider i've got hand sanitizer i've got masks but i've done a few people mostly comics and wayne coin uh live but it's a lot to ask somebody and i understand it's slightly dangerous. But I guess my point is what some of us have grown to realize is that you really can, if your job allows you, work from home and work from home in a fairly efficient way. And I think people have adjusted to people working from home to such a degree that our major talk shows on television are now just kind of guys sitting on their couch. Now, the vulnerability of that is a bit much for me.

We can definitely see it's all the sort of machinations of show business have now been laid bare. And you can really see who's got the juice and who doesn't, who requires more artifice than the next guy. But I guess we're seeing that everybody's human. Now, i don't want to get away from the point here the point is making the adjustment to knowing that your workplace is now your home means pants it means no dicks it means you know make sure at the very least that you know if you're trying to protect your privacy, you've engaged that properly. You know, I think that we've seen the fall of a fairly public person because the adjustment hadn't been fully made yet. That you are working from home, even if it's the same chair that you jerk off in when your family's away or during that special work time, that's not really work time, that when you're working, you're working.

And the repercussions of mixing work and whatever else you do in that chair can be disastrous. That's a public service announcement. Now, before I forget, I fairly frequently right now I'm going on Instagram live in the mornings and I have coffee. I do about an hour of riffing and thinking and answering questions, thinking out loud. I do a lot of what I used to do on a standup stage. I engage in the moment and I kind of riff. It doesn't cost anything, but I'm doing a new hour every few days. That's for sure. But I'm on Instagram live a lot. and I seem to have gotten this hook going where I say, where I kind of move my face into the camera,

I say, use whatever options you have at your disposal to maintain your sanity without hurting yourself or other people. And then I say, too close? Am I too close? You can come and watch and enjoy. I also usually post them so you can enjoy them later in the day but the bottom line is we're gonna have a t-shirt there's a t-shirt we're gonna we got the marin too close t-shirt it was inspired by a photograph by a guy named steve rose who grabbed a bunch of shots from the live stream and put them together in a grid and then a fan and then

cat roads put them on a shirt. And it was like, wow, that's a good design. So let's tweak it a little bit. And we tweaked it a little bit. And you can get them now at podswag.com slash WTF or click on the merch tab at WTFpod.com for the Too Close t-shirt. It's a good one.

You know, it's official WTF merchandise, for the Too Close t-shirt. It's a good one. You know, it's official WTF merchandise, but it's kind of a spinoff because it's the IG live tag. Too Close? Can't really do that with audio. But if you want to see what I'm doing over there, come on. Come on over.

Come over. What are you going to do? What are you doing? Bring it over. Come on over to Instagram Live. Come on. what are you doing i gotta bring it over come on over to instagram live come on what are you come over here what are you doing you know mike binder the comedian who i used to watch when i was a kid was on this show and i don't know if you remember when he was on this show but he's part he's part of the comedy store history he was always sort of a presence in all the stories about the old comedy store in the 70s so i wanted to

have him on but when i had him on he didn't want to talk about the comedy store and he had closed the door to that part of his past and i kept pushing him and pushing him into it and then now he's like full in born again comedy store guy fully embracing the past and made a doc about it with the support of peter shore producing and paulie's in it but it's a fully sanctioned comedy store doc it's on showtime uh they've showed three episodes i think there might be six but this last episode episode three did it was a lot about kennison you know i had some experience with kennison some dark weird druggie experiences with kennison but but the way and i tell the story that you all know but i'll tell you there's a beautiful moment in there where kennison's old best friend

they they after he died they definitely not were not best friends carl lebeau has been on this show and talked about the fact that posthumously Carl learned that his wife gave birth to Sam's baby, his best friend's baby. It's a bit, what's the word I'm looking for? Sorted, maybe? But Carl has found peace with it. And Carl's also ill um sadly uh there's a gofundme for carl if you want to help out carl has a terminal cancer and he needs some equipment and he's dealing with other stuff back issues but you can go to gofundme.com slash f slash carl c-a-r-l dash labove l-a-b-o-v-e uh now it was it's weird i'll explain i've had some emotions about this because that comedy

store period for me which didn't last long which would blew my mind out on drugs. And I would say it was a fairly traumatic time for me in that, you know, I did lose myself in cocaine and lack of sleep and cocaine psychosis. And I had to leave in a very fucking compromised state. I ran away from Hollywood in the late 80s, hearing voices in my my head being chased by things i only understood though q anon seems to understand them now fortunately i was able to uh get rid of the hallucinations and the massive universal conspiracy that was had my number and now it seems to have manifested itself as a political tool for fascists but i found out it wasn't true because it wore off took a year and a half but anyway so there was a it was a traumatic time i had a tremendous amount of resentment against sam kennison about and against carl but over time i i sort of started to to let some of that go and

process it and whatever and sam died of course you know i I think me and Carl make up on the podcast I did with him. But the bottom line is, if you watch this third episode of the Comedy Store Doc and you watch Carl, there's bits and pieces of his stand up. And then he tells the story of Sam dying in his arms. And it's truly profound and moving. and moving but he was such a fucking unique comedian and such a great talent and such a such a present fucking dude in terms of how he acted things out and personified things and and the space he created on stage was truly unique and it was weird because you know out of nowhere i get this email from dan pasternak who's a guy who's been involved with comedy for many years as in development but also was a comic early on and spent some time at the comedy store and i get this email from from pasternak about the goundMe and about the tragic situation that Carl's in in terms of his health and on the link there's some a comedy bit and I and I watched it and it's it's about

it's a bit about being a designated driver and just watching Carl do the work it was moving to me I laughed and I thought about like what that guy what i went through with these fucking guys back in the day what how they hurt me but then how we made up but i just realized how how exciting it was to be around funny people and how funny he fucking was and how much laughter i got out of that guy he was so fucking funny he still is and he's sick and uh you know i i pitched in but i it was out of gratitude and it was out of gratitude you after all that after all the darkness and all the weirdness and all the resentment all the judgment and all the trauma what what really transcended even watching this special about that time in my life

was how fucking fun it was and how much laughter i got out of these fucking people i mean the one thing about being a comic and coming up in it and spending your whole fucking life in it is you're around the funniest fucking people that ever lived if you walk into and it's different for everybody but everyone's got their crew and i've been through a few crews and i've had the honor of spending a lot of time with some of the funniest people that ever lived throughout different points in my career some people you don't even know some people you do at the comedy store before the comedy store boston san francisco new york los angeles different lives i've lived a lot of lives and I've spent a lot of time with a lot of fucking hilarious people.

And what a fucking gift. What a fucking gift to remember just how much you fucking laughed. I mean, I'm a comic. I'm an angry idiot. You know, I've been through my own shit. You know, I've been through my own shit, but one of the great fucking perks of working in this fucking racket is being around the funniest fucking people

that ever lived and laughing your fucking ass off. I'm grateful for that. And I hope Carl is okay in terms of comfort in this time, but I hope that people can help out and make it as comfortable as possible for him. Because he was a funny fucking guy.

And he probably gave me a couple more years. That's all. So Matthew McConaughey is here. And this was interesting because I didn't know what it would be like to talk to him he's awfully excited and uh he seems excited all the time almost to the point of like is that even real but he wrote this book called green lights which is available wherever you get books and I get books by my guests I don't I don't usually have the time to read them or feel the need to. But some reason I started reading this. And I fucking read the whole book.

I think I said to him at the beginning, I'm like, I think if anyone else had written this, I don't know if I would have finished it. But because I could picture you saying it, it all made sense to me. It's very excited. It's very positive, proactive, a little bullshitty, a little self-mythologizing, a little entertaining, a little moving. It's all in there.

But there was a part of me when I'm talking to Matthew McConaughey where I'm like, is this guy for real? All right, all right, all right. Come on. What's going on in there? But this is me talking to Matthew McConaughey.

You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now.

Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote.

Zensurance. Mind your business. Honey. Hey, man. Mark, Mark, Mark. What's up, buddy? A whole lot. Oh, yeah? Yeah? Oh, shit.

Even if I didn't want it to be. You're locked down with three kids and a wife and everything's going crazy? And my 88-year-old mother. Your mother's there, too? Damn right. We got the whole crew, man. We're bunkered in, man. Trying to protect a few susceptible lungs

and outrun this old COVID bitch. I got my Piggly Wiggly shirt on to honor Texas and New Mexico. Yeah, baby. That's up in East Texas. We got those Piggly Wigglies, man. You move down to Central and Austin, you start getting HEBs.

But yeah, Piggly Wigglies man you move down to central and austin you start getting hebs but yeah piggly wigglies for going uh bible belt barbecue barbecues and baptist churches parts of texas yeah i got i grew up in albuquerque so there was a piggly wiggly or two there albuquerque man i just we shot gold there yeah i'm a fan of albuquerque it's great i've never seen so many cvs's i that's new to me i mean i you know back when i you know i like you grew up in texas and we're i mean i'm older than you i think but i there was no cvs's when i was there maybe a walgreens or two well the walgreens and the cvs's i and i and i was guessing my my inside joke in my head was it was about breaking bad being around there but albuquerque reminds me of uh it was a sister it's of a sister city of what

austin texas was 25 years ago right and also tucson arizona yeah albuquerque tucson austin it's like there's less curbs go down the road just kind of pull off the side it's just everything's a little bit more of a merge around albuquerque right yeah and they were big those are college towns like i used to work at a place across from the college i loved it i was just out in taos a few weeks ago trying to run away from something it kind of worked for a week let me ask you this talking about running away from something or running to something do you know the monastery christ in the desert there in abiquiu no but i read about it in your book if you get there dude those are some some radical dude, those are some radical dudes, man. Those are some righteous, radical dudes. I met that guy, Brother Christian

there. There's 13 different people. There's monks from 13 different countries there. And they're like the Oakland Raiders of monks. They didn't fit in at the very formal Benedictine monasteries. And so they were sort of outcasts and they all go there because it's in the desert and if you're just surrounded by the chama river and where george o'keefe was doing her paintings and other natures there it's it's a it's a beautiful spot man well i mean it's you got it like but what is their what's what's their deal i mean i you know i'm a jew and i as a wandering jew do i just go in and go like, help me out? All you got to do is ring that bell, Mark. You ring that bell, they find you a cot. I promise you.

Wandering Jews, all welcome, sir. A Buddhist guy is the guy who gave me a room the second time I was there. I went, I showed up, there were no rooms. And this Buddhist guy gave me his, gave me his room. He gave me his cot and he slept on the floor. I mean, they welcome, welcome everyone. Well, we, I, we can slept on the floor. I mean, they welcome everyone. Well, we can get to that because how you got there is sort of interesting. I ended up reading the whole book. I don't know how. I don't usually do that.

I was going to ask you that. What? If I read it? Well, yeah, if you really read it. I mean, it's a big ask. No, I did read it. Someone throws a book on me and says, hey, man, we read my book. I'm going, damn it, better be good, man, Because I got a lot of stuff to do. I know. Well, I, I,

well, fortunately there is time now to, uh, to, to do things. Just a little bit. So, so I was able, like, I just sort of locked in. The weird thing is like with the, with the sort of philosophical bent and the, I mean, you, at the beginning you, you say this isn't a self-help book, but you do have a, you have sort of constructed retroactively a functioning philosophy of life and sort of a hero's journey for yourself. And, you know, like, I think if anyone else had done it, I would have been annoyed. But for some reason, because you're you. And it's so it's so in your voice i'm like man this guy would be annoying if it wasn't matthew mcconaughey well let me ask you this would it have been annoying if i didn't step in shit so much myself no i don't think it's annoying like

i think the humility of it is fine and i think all of it's pretty it's pretty good but it's your passion you know that comes through it. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm not being critical because I read the whole thing. And there's a couple of things that you wrote down, like your little Post-its and shit. Yeah, I enjoyed the book, but there was a couple where I was like, oh, come on, man. Really? Give me one.

Come on. Come on. Give me one. Give me one. Give me one. Well, here's one. Sometimes we have to leave what we know to find out what we know you're repeating it yeah no i get it absolutely but but like are these all things

that you've written yeah and and you just like but these are things you've written your whole life what do you put them on post-its around your house what do you i mean i have little notebooks everywhere too but mine none of my post-its or notes to myself are proactive in any way they're always grim and dark well you see my a lot of my early stuff was grim and dark and absolutely looney tunes i was imploding on myself yeah but the opening you know who what where when how why that's the greatest question well wow that's a great existential question as an 18 year old right you know no one wants to watch that independent movie um and so you know they started off just complete seeking without answers and as it went on through life i'm still interested in the same stuff i was interested yeah me too i just have i've tried to made them a little more

proactive and today okay enough with the the the mental meditation mcconaughey let's get proactive and see if we can get some affirmation to move forward with some of this shit yeah that you're is on your mind right and so that one that one came to me just very simple very simply it's kind of like that one in peru i want all i want is what i can see what i can see is in front of me very simple yeah but it came to me that that one uh came to me about uh leave each other in australia the year that i was thrown out a bad year how about that story together i like talking was i going through some shit then no i mean i it's just like one of those horrible things where you're young and you're sort of like this sounds interesting being an

exchange student in australia the biggest nightmare of being an exchange student is being with a family that's creepy or weird and it was a lot and i again i wasn't criticizing the book i enjoyed the book or i wouldn't have read the whole thing because you know you have a you know you kind of call yourself out on a lot of stuff you do sort of set up at the beginning that you know you're you can be a bit of a bullshit artist. Like, you know, like the one thing, a couple of things stood out to me. It's like, yeah, I understand you stole the wood in the middle of the night to build the treehouse. But you can tell me that treehouse is 13 stories high.

I mean, stop it. Come on. Start it. It was 13 stories high. Matthew Ponderosa, 13 stories high matthew ponderosa 13 stories you built a tree house in the middle of the night over a series of months that was i mean that's like three months swiss family robinson big though nobody knew exactly nobody knew no i was and like i said i had that chamois tied around my waist yeah and i had you know that you know the uh uh daisy baby gun oh the nail gun the nail guns you

know those straps yeah poncho beads right no i was yeah now was it a hundred and fifty feet or however many uh that might have been a tad of an impression but it was 13 stories and i would cut around and it was a great tree to do it it was was 13th, 14th time when I was done. And you never went back to see if it was still there? No, but you bring that up. I've had two people bring it up going back. Oh, you should go back or someone should go back and see if there's relics of that in that tree out there. Because I bet you it's been developed by now.

I mean, you went to Africa twice based on dreams. You can't go back to the fucking town. I know. Based on the town in Texas to see if your childhood tree house is still there i don't even know if i can find it the area i'd have to go back in my whole family and find out where where where was that double wide dad and i were living in at that time um i'm not even sure where it was that's the interesting thing about like some of this stuff like he started out the whole book opens with like a pretty you know aggressive scenario of domestic violence and you kind of move from there you know you're like yeah there I want to set the bar real quick to say okay we're not just we're not just completely joking around here and we better have some thick skin. Well, I know, but like how much of that, how much of that, that was there?

I mean, how old were you when you were born in Texas or no? Yeah. Born in Texas, Uvalde, 1969. So you've got one biological brother and one adopted brother? Exactly. My oldest brother is 16 years older than me. That's Mike? That's Mike, aka Rooster.'s that's mike that's mike aka rooster and

pat's pat's in the middle yeah and so you're born in texas and your dad now like i just got to ask like because there's a there's a process in the book where you know you're kind of putting yourself together you challenge yourself and you're kind of like there's the type of self-awareness you have around becoming the person you want to be. Right. Sort of has to come from a place that, you know, where, you know, obviously, you know, you had the wherewithal to think about that. So you were conscious of that, which means that, you know, there must've been enough drama in the house with your parents and your,

and, and, and your dad, they must've been selfish enough to somehow leave you kind of longing for a sense of self. Oh, that is the way I saw it. I mean, the way, the way I saw it was, selfish enough to somehow leave you kind of longing for a sense of self. Oh, that isn't the way I saw it. I mean, the way, the way I saw it was look, all those, those stories that, that on paper are, you know, that's why I call it beauties of brutality on paper. You go, Oh my gosh, call the CPS. McConaughey must've been, he must've been in therapy for the rest of his life to get over that stuff.

He saw it. No, that's not true. No, no, I get that. The love. I didn't. Like I said, we were a super tight family. And you get the humanity I tell through those stories. Yeah. Why I, when someone asks me about the love in our family, the things that turn me on and make me feel so much for the way I grew up.

I always tell those stories of discipline. That people go, put their hand over their mouth. There's the ones that turn me on and go, no, the love that's how my mom and dad communicate that's not how i communicate now with my wife i don't choose to do that's not how i raise my kids with the discipline you mean you guys don't have a standoff with tools and knives and forks 12 inch blades ketchup bottles each other and and then make love on the kitchen floor. In front of your kids. Well, that's the other thing. Yeah.

There was no, that's another thing. They were not, if you look at that story, beautiful part about how they perceived each other is you didn't, neither one of them had one iota of a thought of like, oh, wait a minute. Our son who's whatever, four years old is over there. Maybe we should make this R rated instead of NC 17. There was no objectified situation.

They were the subject. They're in it. If you're there to witness it and you're in the seat, well, saddle on up big boy. And then I chose to leave once the lovemaking. But you're four. You chose to leave because it got weird. No, because I was crying.

It was the fight was finally over. i was crying it was the fight was finally over i was so happy the fight was finally over and the knife had been dropped and the ketchup bottle had been dropped and all i know is whatever they were doing before they weren't fighting but you know like on some i get it but on some level i mean you have to look like i just read a whole book of you sort of constructing who you were and who you are and being hyper aware of a of a system to be put in place so you can become the man you want to be and you're going to tell me that four-year-old that was sitting there watching shit being thrown and ketchup everywhere and crying wasn't sort of like these people aren't going to help me exactly no i thought i come 100 100 percent

said these people never even in context oh 100 these is my mom and dad that love me this is a wild rodeo and wow i guess this is this is this is one way to do it i mean i didn't contextualize it for years old and i also wasn't something that I got to be older and was like, you know, I really got to go talk that out about what that meant to me. I kind of immediately saw it as like, I brought it up to mom after that. What the hell was that about? And she just straight up, like she said, Hey, that's how I needed that to communicate. Yeah.

My fingers broken four times because I needed that to communicate. I, she started on fights. She admits it to this day. Right. I'm not leaning on the therapy angle. I'm just leaning on the angle. I just think it's sort of interesting that you, you present all this chaos, which is their love. And however you want to define that, it's hard to explain relationships, but also alongside of that, you know, this book is really about self-parenting dude dude. I mean, it's not about pathology. It's not like I have problems, but it's really about like,

I look back at my life and this is how I became the man I'm going to be. And you credit your folks. You know what I mean? Yeah, I heard. I hear you. I mean, self-parenting, self-determination. I mean, I talk about not being reliant on fate

at the same time that it's going to happen with or without us. And after it happens, it's a science. But yeah, you know, and look, in a constant recalibration, just many times through the story, I think I've got my shit all together. And I about face stepping shit and spit the loogie in my face, proverbial loogie in my face, right when I think I'm in the cradle of God. So part of the humor and the leaning into my own impermanence and our own impermanence of humanity is part of the identity that we're never going to find it. That's the point. So's let's let's dance through this son of a bitch as best we can um you know forgive where we can persist where we where we need to and and and and put ourselves through hell but also shake hands on some things say hey

i'm stuck with you you're the only person i can't get rid of yeah you're the only person you can't get rid of mark so hell since we're here shit might as well try and get along yeah with the guy inside so like where are you in austin now yeah you ever go out there to opie's barbecue in spicewood love opie's one of my favorite three tastes in my mouth ever is that sausage dipped in that jalapeno corn oh yeah oh it's so good so you know kristen and that gang out there yeah yeah yeah that's my place i always go out there they just kill her they sent me a bunch uh at the beginning of the quarantine she sent me a big uh package they came out and cooked it we had a uh my wife threw a 50th birthday uh party for me out in uhfa, where we flew in friends from the West Coast and friends from Austin.

And we all spent three days camping out in tents out there. And Opie's opening night, we had them. They did the barbecue. Yeah, I love it. And a lot of people don't know about it, but I talk about it constantly. I think I've definitely sent a lot of people over there. I'd never heard about it. I just recently got turned on to it just about a year and a half ago from a neighbor friend of ours.

It's nice because it's still off the beaten path and it's not crazy. You know what I mean? And it's like at that level of barbecue, I mean, it's all pretty good. But they do some stuff that's real good. Their sausage is real good. That sausage dunked in the jalapeno corn. I'm with you. I'm with you.

And the cobbler. The cobbler. They got the cobbler. Ha, ha, ha, ha. If you can make it. The cobbler is what gives me. If I want to go take a nap, have the cobbler after eating all that butter. With that vanilla ice cream with that blue bell.

Oh, yeah. Get that. Come on, man. So do you hang out with Willie? Not that often. I see him and Annie and Lucasie and lucas from time to time right um i mean last time i saw willie woody and i went out there to his to his uh his ranch there in austin played cards all night yeah so it's not a regular thing i just i'm just trying to think of

people i know in austin it's not i mean not not not a regular thing you know i mean if he comes in town he's gonna play a show and sometimes I'll go introduce him. Like I said, we played card a couple times. I have not ever seen him in Hawaii, which he spends a lot of time out there. Now, Linkletter, do you guys hang out? Yeah. I actually just wrote with Linkletter this morning.

He just read the book and wrote back what he thought of it. What did he think of it? He loved it. My doggone eyes got wet after reading what he thought of it. Oh, really? Because I really value his opinion. And he's a guy who chooses his words carefully. And he had so much to say that he liked about it.

And he actually, in the end, it was saying, look, it's a great living object to be dropping into the world at this time. And he also said this he goes one of my favorite things about the book is is what it is not because it's not a gossip tell our industry you know story oh i should have had this part you should have given me this and and i you know and he was like it's not that at all yeah you kind of avoid that almost yeah i mean those people know who they they are i don't need to spend i don't want to spend time on a page trying to call them out. I call it one person, and I don't name them with the rain and fire story when I shave my head. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But no, I was never, my goal going into it, I knew it was like, okay, here I am. McConaughey going to write a book. I want to go see what all my diaries are. I think there may be something worthy in there. But I know that coming out as McConaughey, I'm going to share the book. I'm going to have some people that are going to be, oh, I want to read it right away because McConaughey wrote it. I got other people that are going to go, I'm not reading that fucking book. I don't need to read another fucking book by a celebrity.

What's he doing writing a book? Guy's got a family, successful actor. What, now he's got to write? Come on. You got that side. So I said, look, and I told the publishers early on, the first thing that I wrote, I said, look, this should never end up being between uh hardcovers any kind of hardcover if the words are not worthy yeah to be signed by anonymous but at the same time when you read it it should be only mcconaughey could have wrote this no it definitely feels that way i mean think

that's what drives you the experience is that like, it's definitely you. So that comes through. That's what, that's what makes you finish the book is because you're talking like you and you can picture you doing the shit. I did it. I tell you this, man, I tell you this, I've been, you know, as a performer, I, I perform the stories around many campfires, many dinner parties, I tell stories. Yeah. And I thought here i'm gonna go put them to the page why don't i just record my best version of the story

and dictate that and put it on the page well guess what that don't work the writing has to be like from my experience 30 shorter than the telling right you got to transcribe it though like it like it's good to have those transcripts and then tighten it up exactly the transcripts helped but then i did have to do a lot of time. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's the way I did a book and I, you know, I, it was taken from a lot of talking and, uh, and yeah, it's, you got to tighten it up.

It's better because it gives you a framework and then you can get in there and you can sort of reflect a little bit within it. Right. Yep. You know, you got the story and then you're like, oh, but here I could kind of go back to this, you know, which you wouldn't do in the telling. But in the writing, you can kind of draw it out a little longer. Well, in the telling, you can you don't get this intonation that I'm leading up to a certain fact.

And you see my raised eyebrow. My my voice is a little higher. Yeah. Teeing you up for the punchline. But in the in the in the writing, you don't get all that. So you have to choose your words more carefully and like you said go back because i would also write something down and i'd have my editor read it and they and they missed the story they missed the moral of the story they didn't get that it was a joke or they didn't get that it was had the humanity and they'd be like oh my god this is so this is so mean or no no no what's this and i was like oh i took for granted i was giving you the cliff notes version of what i've already known so i need to go back and remember you're reading it for the first time describe it yeah so now like talking to link ladder i mean that guy is really it must

mean a lot to you i mean he's the guy that's that started this whole journey for you really yeah and uh you know had that faith in you at the beginning, right? And I didn't realize until how much of that story, of how that happened, and then being on set in the improvising, because you approached that thing, you had no acting training, really, right? No, I'd been in a Miller Lite commercial for about that long.

A Miller Lite commercial, but that was a background background uh model but you always had a certain amount of swagger the swagger carried you yeah i i walked my shoulders were usually somewhat back yeah you were never a wallflower you're not some uh uh you weren't hiding from anything i would say that probably if i knew you in high school you know i would be with the group of guys that would turn and go like no fucking mcconaughey no there's no that's the thing here's the thing though dude here's the thing i here's who i was in high school yeah i got two fights in high school they were both for taking up for an underdog who's getting picked on one guy was named ronald halley who was the nerd who sat on the front row yeah and he was getting picked on. One guy was named Ronald Halle, who was the nerd who sat on the front row.

He was getting picked on. Another was a short black kid who was getting picked on. I got in fights defending those. I was the only friend. I was popular. I was in student council. I had straight A's. I had a poor handicap. I had a truck. I was good looking.

I was affluent. At the same time, at the same time, I same time all right I was the only one that was really I was really good friends with Betty Rice yeah the first gothic everyone thought she was the lesbian in high school and I had Betty was cool as shit yeah Betty and I got along so I didn't have I was cool with the in in and out groups I was I really was I was cool with the nerds I was cool with the non-athletes yeah i was cool with i was i was cool with with most everybody not a dick i was never a dick no no i was not i was not a dick no i had fun with all kinds and i also like

guys like bendler who who's the guy who robbed bendler who who I met in art class, who got me, gave me the courage to even pursue going into a film career. He was the artistic guy whose dad was an interior decorator and the Jewish kid who was kind of, you know, kept to his own. Well, I would bring him out

on the Friday nights to the truck at the dead end with the kegger and the music with all my popular friends that drinks a beer and chases girls yeah i'd bring him into that group and i was always with him and they're like well what's he doing around until they met him like oh he's really cool right exactly and then on saturday night he introduced me to something i'd never done yeah hey why don't you come over to my house and let's watch a movie yeah and do some writing what saturday night we got two nights to go chase, chase girls.

Let's try this. And so that was the first time I got introduced to any sort of introversion through him. Or, or, you know, that type of creativity, but you were open to it for some reason, which is interesting. I wonder why that was. I mean, I guess you don't have to question it. You just had a big heart for people, I guess. I guess I also, you know, I've always had that side to me. Like I say about my dad. I mean, look at my, look at my dad. You go football player, Green Bay Packers, six, four, two 60 bear of a man, work your way up through a job, son. That's how we do it. Hard work that gets us there. Well, at the same time, the guy took ballet at the same time. He was a painter after he passed away. I found paintings paintings of his i found sculptures of his

i'm like when was he doing that really after i went to bed oh yeah he'd go off in the garage and do that never showed us so we had it in us it just wasn't something that was out in front or like i said when i decided to go to film school the idea of going to film school in my 18 year old 19 year old head was well that's too avant-garde, right? Peeing, uh, hippie, dippy. You can't do that. They are, you know, it's like, you got to work your shit. Soon as I, as soon as I told him I want to go to film school and he said, don't half-ass it. He was happy. He was so happy in our family. This is it. And I think this,

there was this way for society in general, in a lot of ways, you set up rules. Here's the rules, the laws. And until you break them and you go, I'm not asking permission to break them. And guess what? Consequences be, Dan, that's when my dad was like, yeah, you broke out and went your own way.

You look at society, a private sector, a Steve Jobs, a somebody goes and goes their own way, an Elon Musk, all the rules so you can't do that until you do it and you play so well that they you're on the starting five just because you've done it and then everybody the government families go okay bravo good job you do you went far enough to break the mold do you think your dad like had uh like like saw himself in you in the way that he couldn't quite you know manifest that part of himself so he was you know like because it seems like there was a lot tied up in your own sense of masculinity and you know wanting to be approved by your dad in in sense of your manhood but him having this sort of secret creative life that he kind of kept hidden that like because it was a

very interesting and emotional turn for you to to say you're going to film school in thinking that you know he would you know at least be hard on you about it and instead he just wants you to do the best that you can speaks to his uh you know to maybe that part of him that's sort of like you know i got a garage full of paintings and i never had the courage to maybe that part of him that's sort of like, I got a garage full of paintings, and I never had the courage to do that. Yeah, I don't know if it's, that may be two levels too deep for the way he was thinking. I think it was more like he was,

he appreciated my independent rebellious spirit to go against everything that was expected of me, even by him. In an immediate 10 seconds he was already inside his mind going there we go paving his own path daring himself you damn right i'm for it don't half-ass it yeah it's too bad man he didn't he like and he passed away during uh five days five days into my first uh of shooting, days of abuse. And it was a complete surprise.

You didn't know it. Complete surprise. I got a call. I always find out about death in the damn kitchen. Yeah. I'm always in the kitchen when I get the phone call about somebody close to me dying. That's good. That's cinematic. You're doing some stuff in the kitchen.

The phone rings. Hello. And then you stand there. Yeah, something. What? Something, right? I always hit my knees, and i remember um i got the call it was uh it was the night it was the monday night so he had he had made love to my mother climax and had a heart attack that morning at 6 30. mom didn't call me until seven o'clock that night i never asked her why she waited but she called me

and it was real good she and i could tell she was catching her breath because Matthew, you there? Can you hear me? Yeah. You want to go? Yes, ma'am. What's up? What's up? What's up?

Cause your dad died and I was, you know, shock hit my knees while I composed myself, uh, uh, made a cut, you know, got a cup of coffee and a jug of water and hit the road and drove home. Yeah. Um, that was a complete surprise. Complete surprise. drove home yeah um that was a complete surprise complete surprise now we had found out you know dad dad smoked like you know two three packs of filterless camels a day oh really so he so he had gone to you know like baylor medical where they did this experiment where they put the dye in you

to see how your aort and everything's running yeah and and and and he'd come back and the next day he'd be on the golf course he'd have a cigarette like a poppy sure he should be smoking that he's oh yeah son doc says i got the heart of a 22 year old high hurdler well so boom he has a heart attack and we're like the whole family we're going we're gonna get that doctor we're gonna get his ass we barge down there going, you didn't tell us. You told our dad out of the heart of a 22-year-old. I heard you, son of a bitch. You said he could teach us.

He's like, what? No. Look at these graphs. I told him, don't ever smoke again. You're all clogged up and blocked. We're like, huh? It's completely bullshit. But you guys were ready to go.

Oh, we were ready to take that doc out And then all of a sudden we were like Oh shit well of course okay Yeah he didn't want to change Nah He's gonna go out And he went out Fucking that's something Called the shot

Always told us boys When I get out When I move on I get out of this place I'm gonna make love to your mother He did say Son of a bitch if he didn't Come on He said that on. He said that?

He said that. When I go, boys, I'm going to be making love to your mother. And then sure enough, you know, and he went, there's other still parts of the story that aren't even in the book. He evidently, I found out later because when the ambulance

came to get him at the house, obviously all the neighbors came out in the right and and the neighbors all that were somewhat friends came and told me later that mom in her negligee nightie that she had woke up in wouldn't let the the paramedics cover him she kept ripping the sheet off going uh-uh i want the world to see why his nickname was big jim don't cover him that's how he went out looney tunes man carnie is all get out well it's funny because that sort of ties into you being busted and refusing to put the blanket on because you wanted to prove the point. Maybe that's where I got it from. Yeah. Prove my innocence.

My birthday suit is obvious. Obvious picture shows that I was minding my own business. Yes. Yeah. That was it. In my mind. Runs in the family. So when you're shooting Days in Confuso, like are you paralyzed with grief or are you able to just kind of move past it, or use it, or what was the feeling?

Definitely more grounded. So here this first thing happens, I get my first acting job, I love it, people are telling me I'm good at it, I'm getting invited back to set, I'm like getting paid 320 bucks a day, I'm thinking, is this legal? Can I get away with this? Having a great time on a high of my life, bam, that happens.

Well, what had just become the most important thing in my life, getting my first job in acting that I loved, became an obvious distant second. And so I came back and was very thoughtful. I remember walking around the football field in that final scene of Days Confused. It was just before sunset. And Rick Linkletter and I were walking around.

I just got back from my dad's wake and we were just talking about, Hey, what's it all about life. And I, and I said, you know what, man, I think it's about you just keep living, man. I mean, like my dad, he's now gone, but I have an opportunity to keep alive in me what he taught me about what I loved and why I loved him. And if I keep that alive, he may physically not be here, but spiritually he's still alive. So I have that opportunity. So I think you just got to keep living, man.

And then that night in that scene, I said it to Randall Pink Floyd, you know, we wanted to sign the drug contract. And I was like, you know what you do, wouldn't you? You're going to get a whole lot more rules once you get older. Whatever you do, you've got to keep living, man. And then that sort of just sat on me as I as I do is I'll find a phrase or a bumper sticker and I'll test it in life and take it into life and see, does it apply or where does it not apply? Can it hold up? And look, it's a simple one, but just keep living. Even Chekhov said it. What else are we here to do? I've never found a place where it's not applicable. And I like that. I like that.

All right. All right. All right. It was just sort of a throwaway. And then it became the defining phrase of your life. The three affirmations of the things my character had at that time, Wooderson. He had his car, 70 Chevelle. He had his weed, because Slater was riding shotgun,

and he had Ted Nugent in the 8-track, so he had his rock and roll. And he was going to get the fourth thing that he loved, which was go pick up the chicks. And pulling out, after putting it in drive, I said those three words. There was also, I had been listening to

a lot of the Doors at that time, and listening to a lot of the doors at that time. And there's a recording of Morrison in a live concert where he barks to the crowd four times. All right, all right, all right, all right. So maybe that was somewhere in the back of my mind, too. Yeah. To do it in Wooderson sort of way. And then just laid down the three affirmations of what I had. And those are the first three words I ever said in film.

So the reason I don't, I love it when people say it or tattoo it on them or whatever and walk down the street and say half, you know, and say half of it and I say the other half. Yeah. Those are the first three words I said ever on film, 28, whatever, 28 years ago. Now, I didn't know at that time if that was going to be a one-off

hobby where i got to work for a week in the summer uh of 1992 and never did it again but it turned out to be a career so i'm like please oh i'll do this yes i'm in thank you yeah all right that was it all right that was the baptism that was it come on but i think it's interesting that the one part of whatever you do to to creep to to sort of identify with these characters like you know you talk about that was one line he said that like you know launchpad line right and that's that's something you that that's your your tool. Yeah. A launchpad line. Um, like Wooderson, it was, uh, uh, what was it? Like, I'm going to get older. That's what I love about those high school girls, man. I get older.

They say the same age. And you were like, dude, I read that. I'm like, who's that guy? That guy really believes that Pete, that line is not an attitude. That's like part of his constitution, there's an encyclopedia on that guy in that belief. It's like the Wolf of Wall Street. The way I was able to riff on that was one of the lines that were written when he tells Jordan Belfort, the Leonardo DiCaprio character, the secret to stockbrokering is cocaine and hookers. I'm like what who's that guy yeah right there's a book on that guy if that's truly his perspective

and he really means that a launchpad line right and but that like it's that that's how you start because you refer to these guys as your man you know like and and so you're going to take that that's that's your window into them to put that together, to write that book. Right. To write that book. Then the rap starts. I can write, I can write that song. Yeah.

Now, a hundred thousand pages based off of that one liner. Unpack that. Deconstruct that guy. Right. And right after you do like, you know, like Dazed and Confused, then you have this kind of run, uh, like you work with how, how uh like you work with how how like you work with the sales right john sales john sales on lone star because that was an interesting movie yep and like so like you're working with you work with link letter and you work with with sales

and they seem pretty organic about their process i mean those those are kind of movie makers it's a good good way to start oh yeah. It's a good, good way to start. Oh yeah. What a great way. What a great way to start. I mean, they weren't huge budget studio films where the machine is kind of leading the, the, the, the personal side of things. They weren't huge, you know, studio movies that you had money to pay for everything. Right. So you had to get more creative and independent. You have to sort of be able to adapt quicker. And they both have a vision. They got vision.

Yeah. They have a vision and they're more, they're more personal. They're not spending the spend on those are not for the, the star in the movie or the special effects. So it's just, it's inter interpersonal. The story's got to be written well. And let's see how let's,'s see how we uh what story we tell on the ground through human interaction so i saw collaboration is what i what i saw but i went into days confused thinking that that like directing was a dictatorship and like if you didn't know something you're obviously failing as a director or and i saw and i said Linkletter, pick up an idea from a PA. I'd see Linkletter go to a spot like that night when he came to me,

he just told me this about a month ago. And he came to me that night, my very first night, I was not supposed to be in the movie. I had not been in the movie at all yet. I was just doing a wardrobe and makeup test. And he came up and he goes, Oh, I look at you. Yes. You look like Wooderson. And then he goes, Hey man, you man you know i figure wooderson's kind of guy who's been with the typical hot chicks you know the cheerleaders majorettes and stuff and i'm like yeah he goes

you think you'd have an interest in the redheaded intellectual i'm like oh yeah wooderson likes all types of chicks man and he goes well you know marissa bc's over playing you think you maybe pull up and pick her up yeah well, I said, yeah, but I found that two months ago that actually 15 minutes before that, Rick was on the set and noticed without having anything to do with me that, oh, I got a story hole in our story right now. Who's going to tell everyone there's a party tonight?

No one knows there's a party tonight to get everyone to go. So he comes and he says he sees me. He goes like, well, maybe Wooderson be the one that says there's a fiesta in the making tonight so he gave that to me because he needed a story point he didn't tell me that until two months ago yeah i know because the story is in the book about would you pick up would you hit on the the redhead but that but now he tells you he's like oh yeah i just need needed. I needed you to fill a story. I need you to move my narrative along, man. So the big break is a time to kill, right?

That's the big, yeah. And that guy. That's the big. What was that? Joe Schumacher. Right. Well, what was that guy? What was the line that got you into that guy?

The line that got me into that guy. Well, with that character yeah i mean look i'll say this i knew even at that point that if that final summation doesn't absolutely nail the truth right then it doesn't matter how how what the rest of my performance is like that that the turn and that story depends on jake Pergans delivering that final summation and hitting and getting the jury into that world and then making the flip where he goes, now imagine she's white. Right. Kiva Goldsman wrote that. And I knew early on, it's like this summation is the thing that has to work. This is if this doesn't work, no matter how good you do in the rest of the movie, the movie doesn't work and your performance won't work unless you nail this um and that you know that summation i had that day flagged in my calendar for for months and once we got to it i remember going in i was very very calm

that day i was prepared i was very calm i knew it was a big moment for me right and i remember joumacher going, OK, so, Matthew, we're going we're in there in the rehearsal because we're going to shoot. I'm going to shoot the jury first to do the wide shot. You could warm your way up into it. And I wasn't even looking at him. I was kind of just kind of gazing off. I was already in my zone. And he was saying that and I was not agreeing with him. And I just kind of glanced out of my eye and I went. And he goes, without missing a beat, he goes, and we're going to shoot the wide. No, I take that back. We're shooting Jake Brignac. It's close up first.

Everyone get ready. And everyone came in, cover me first. One take. Bam. Move on. Oh, so you did the, that was it. You did that close up first. Cause you didn't want to do it.

I didn't, I said he could tell I was locked in. I let him know that saying I was locked in, I was locked in. And so he said, we're not going to shoot everything first and let you warm up. We're going to cover you right now first because you're ready. Right. And then that was it, man. Then all of a sudden, I remember the press. It's like the new Paul Newman is here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the guy. Saves the movies. What the fuck, dude? Right. Oh, it was wild, dude. It was wild. I remember going through, you know, hell, going to the supermarket, getting my groceries,

looking at three magazine covers, and I'm on the cover of them going like, well, I think I'll purchase a few of those. But then I remember it was, and I write about it in the book, the world became a mirror. Everything got inverted. The Friday before it came out, theiday afternoon of the day it came out yeah like i said i was there are 100 scripts out there i would have said yes to and there were 99 no's and one yes bam it opens up friday night it has a good opening weekend that monday it inverted 100 scripts i want to do 99 yeses one no and I was like whoa three days ago I would have done

any of these and now it's on me and last time I checked there's only 24 hours in a day it's on me to be discerning through 99 of these scripts to decide what I want to do let me catch my breath here right and you know and so have you been with the same agent forever no that was at the time I was with uh that was right around transition i think when i went from from uh william morris over to ca a i believe that was a transition time because like those decisions i mean like it's interesting because in the book when you talk about the career and you talk about like how like because you didn't take a lot of acting classes but once you got to la you felt like you should so you did and you felt like it fucked you up somehow it did

you know that you know that transition when you learn a new craft something if you have an instinctual understanding of something yeah and you kind of do it pretty good and then you go let's go get learned right let's get the intellect and let's learn something there's a bridge you have to cross well there's an awkward period there where for the first time you're conscious of what you're doing and you you're learning how to do what you were just doing naturally yeah but it's also according to this one person you decide to trust with the education right so you go to this class and all of a sudden because you have an instinct for it and you're good at it but you want to get better at it so it's like who's this guy well these people told me this is the guy and then you go listen to the guy no and it did it didn't work

i i i i was too tight i i had an awkward couple of years there where I was not getting the parts because I was thinking too much. Now, later on in my career, I did get with a wonderful lady, one of my great mentors like Penny Allen, and really dove into what acting was, what my rights were as an actor. What movie was that? When did that start? That started right before Ed TV and went up to two years ago, and she just passed away from cancer. That's one of the most important people in my life. I was with her for, I think, 19 years. As a coach.

Yeah, she wouldn't call herself a coach, but she was – I don't even know what to call her. People that work with her know that she's like no other. She had no connection to the business side. She had no connection that like, oh, this movie has got a studio behind it. This could be a big deal. She didn't care if it was getting offered a dollar or 10 million dollars. She was just only about the role and what was right, what was truest for me.

And she just pushed me, pushed me, pushed me. Now that she did, as Don Phillipsips says lower my handicap as an actor that first foray did not well it's interesting because like your instinct around the idea of the line what'd you call it the uh launchpad line you know and building out from that you know that i mean that's teachable you know like that you know right that's like, but any actor, I think most great actors are naturally half, 80% of it is just a gift, you know? And then the other 20 is some education and also just doing it over and over again. But I mean, that's as good a tool as any acting coach is going to give you is like, here's your launch pad line. See, you'll figure out what the book of the character is.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. But also I learned more from her. Like there's a lot more to it. It's like, you go, well, don't just rely on the one launchpad line that you think your character takes. Literally. Let's see who he is.

Let's also see who he is not. Let's see what they need. What is their obstacle? They got to get over it. Right. Get what they need. So it's not all just easy street. What you know the who am i there's a that the launch pad line helps a lot with the who am i yeah in in a character um but also i learned a lot about how to get out of trouble

when i got in trouble if i got stuck if i got if i got tight if i had tension tensions and axers worst enemy if i had tension on set if wasn't happy, I learned how to get out of trouble. I learned how to, when to go walk off and take a moment, when to go shake it out. Okay. Okay. Come back. Let's, let's re-approach this situation. And I learned how to arm myself, so to speak, how to come to a set with like, I got four versions in the truth and my holsters are loaded. So you can, let's call the audible, press record. You can throw at me whatever you want. want to be able to just i can go with it i can dance with whatever you give me and that's when it's really fun when when as actors we're really hitting it on the screws is when it's like don't even say cut if you got a million hours of film if you

got a million hours of film video press record right now and and and out and put me put a blindfold on me wherever you want to go keep the recorder on i'll be i'll be my guy that's when it's like that's when you like it always happened but that's when it's like yeah yeah yeah that's what makes it worth it that and the money yeah yeah so when did the the two primary it seems like there were three primary kind of like necessary recalibrating spiritual journeys that you had to take because of some existential crisis. Right. And that,

that, that there's, that's a lot of the book in a way it kind of hangs on these things. And they're interesting to me. I mean, outside of the fact that they were all sort of you know driven by wet dreams that were non-sexual which it's that's nice good for you but good for you good for you hey way to be the one all Congratulations, Connick. Next. Yeah.

When did the first one to Africa, when did that happen? Because I mean, but also like the, I think the living in the trailer thing, it's hard for me to sort of see in the context of the career and in time. Like, you know, you took two trips to Africa, a trip to a monastery, but you also lived in a mobile home for what? Years? Months? About four years. Four years. about four years four years so you brought the business to you when it needed to come to you you know and you were i drove my airstream

to vancouver but you were in demand at that time it wasn't like you were on the outs at that time this was a life i was in certain i was in somewhat demand yes that because that was a lifestyle choice is how i'm going to live to make me me I'm going to be out on the road with my dog, living life, meeting real people. So what, what, what ha what happened when you hit the wall enough to like,

you know, really check out and go to Africa the first time? Well, so the first I had the, um, the, uh, nocturnal emission,

the nocturnal emission, hands-free, palatial free nocturnal emission the nocturnal emission hands-free palatial free nocturnal emission um the first one was in i think in uh 96 and that one sent me to peru as i knew in the dream there were two things i knew to be facts in the dream there was the amazon river and african tribe has been on the left on the left bank as far as I can see. They're two separate dreams, right? No, that's the same dream.

That's the first one. Same exact dream. 11 frames, 11 seconds. Snapshot. I'm floating down the river on the Amazon River on my back, wrapped up in anacondas. Freshwater sharks are swirling, crocodiles and piranhas on my back naked. There's African tribesmen with shields and spears all on the left bank above me all the way as far as the eye can see. Then I came. It was not a nightmare.

I go, oh, geez, I wake up from that. What is that? That's got to be someone's telling me something here. What do I know about those? I know it's the Amazon. I know it's African tribesmen. So as I say in the book, I go to the Atlas for Africa, looking for the Amazon wrong continent. So I didn't find the Amazon. So I'm going there. I go for 22 day trip to, um, float the Amazon that story's in there. I think, okay, I fulfilled it. I have the dream again. I had it again in 99. I know. But like when you go down there, like, okay, so, you know, it's only 21 days, days but it's a it's a pretty big journey and like what was it because all these times you know you have these existential crises and you know you seem to feel like you have to pay some penance for something i mean what was what was the cleansing

thing what did you have to you know what was it that you had to reconfigure to go down there like what were you like i gotta fucking do this because why well well let me look it was a celestial suggestion to me that i took quite seriously okay all right okay yeah and i did not know exactly what i was going needed to go fine but i was like this is a wonderful excuse to get the fuck out of here and go off on your own and you know what i'm gonna say that's probably a good idea anyway for somebody anytime they can do it. But right now, since you've got that celestial suggestion through this wet dream, this one may have a higher hand and let's go chase it down and see what we get

out of it. So then I had that dream, same dream again over three years later. And I'm in the northern side of the lift in the Morrison Hotel, just finished Rain and Fire in Ireland. Yeah. Had the exact same drink, 11 frames, 11 seconds, wet drink. And I'm like, whoa, hadn't had that in three years, but it's the same one I had then. Well, maybe it's calling me out to do the second half of my dream. What's the second half?

The other thing that I know about the dream geographically, African tribesmen. Okay, I guess I need to go to Africa. Now that I got the river part done, I got to go. I got the river part done. Now I got to go to Africa. What are the Africans doing there? So I got to chase down the second half.

Yeah. Now I'm going mighty big continent. What's my coordinate over there, baby? Listening to music. Ali Farkatroy. Anyway, that guy's African. Where's he from? Check him out.

He's from Niafunke. Where's Niafunke? Oh, it's in Mali. Okay. I'm going to'm gonna go find ali yeah didn't know anything more than that and headed off found ali about five days into the trip and ended up taking the rest of the greatest trip of my life for the next 17 days after that so these weren't these were just sort of like impulsive cosmically informed journeys that you had the wherewithal and the financial freedom to take. And you wanted to just see what would happen. Damn right. And felt like, and like I said, always looking for an excuse to go take an adventure or a solo to chase down a mystery. Sure. And they all feed your character. character i mean like that whole story in africa

you you know around the wrestling that was exciting and fun and you developed a friendship with the guy who drove you like your guide you know that's exciting okay so then getting to the monastery that we started the conversation with it seemed to me that you you would somehow because like it's what's interesting about the book is that you have these events in your life that you thread together as defining events. Right. But but but there are definitely periods in your life and moments in your life that you either you kind of move through by going like, you know, there's a couple of references to, you know, I got to cleanse myself of these sins. And and also like, you know, like like this, an intensity of loathing. But you don't write about either of those things. Well, I mean, but I didn't...

Look, my threshold, I have a pretty short threshold for my own feeling of self-guilt and my own feeling of self-significance. My threshold is pretty quick. I mean, I have a pretty sensitive wire when I'm feeling like, whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on, McConaughey. You're not being all you right now. You're not grounded. Your mind and your heart and your spirit do not have an autobomb between them right now. You've got some blocked roads here and you need to clear this up and oh why you've been thinking that geez

you've been kind of looking down on things you're thinking negatively i didn't like what you said last night how you said that what was constructive about that mcconaughey who are you trying to be somebody else and so those triggers let me know hey my spider senses go off and go you need to check in you need to bend a knee boy yeah you know you need you need to go you need to check in. You need to bend a knee, boy. You need to get checked out to check in. And whether that is going to the monastery or going off into nature, those are all Fugamundis, as my brother Christian friend Monk calls them, that are walkabouts, which are to say, I'm going to go to a place where I can listen to myself. I'm in a position of fame at that time in my life where there's a lot of frequencies coming at me.

A lot of voices, a lot of things I'm listening to, a lot of things I think I am and I want to be. All of a sudden you can start objectifying your life and go, wait, where's the subject? And so I'm feeling like I'm feeling like I'm living an object in my life and going, wait a minute, but I don't feel my own feet on the ground. Right. I need to go somewhere where I can hear myself think. but I don't feel my own feet on the ground. Right. I need to go somewhere where I can hear myself think. I need to go somewhere where memory can catch up with me where I can go. Okay,

let's have this out. McConaughey. Let's go back over the, the old docket here and see what we've been doing over the last year. And let's measure them out and let's figure out which ones we're going to forgive and which ones are, we're going to say, I'm fucking tired of that.

No more. Right. And I, and I want to do, and I'm going to have that out with myself. Let's go to, let's go have that wrestling match until we get to a point, which is usually around day 12,

that there's a purge. There's a forgiveness period where I go, okay, all right. Right. Stuck with the one person I can't get rid of. So let's shake hands on this guy and see how we can do from here on out. And we'll screw up again and need another one of these soon. But for now,

let's have a good time and be more present. Right. And that, and that works, you know, like, cause you go deep with it. Like, you know, you, you don't, so you, most of the time it's, it seemed like that, that first time it was about, you know know that line that you cross where you're no longer defined by yourself but by the business's expectations other people's expectations the uh you know whatever the fans expectations yeah and but all but but alongside of that you got all this bread and you can do whatever the fuck you want and there's no way you're not going to get into a decadence hole because you've lost your way. That's what I didn't want to get into a decadence hole.

Like I said, I write about the value of resistance in my life a lot. Yeah, you just said it. I got all this dough, can do whatever the fuck I want. Well, that's a prescription for becoming a tyrant. A tyrant. Unless you check in with it. Or dead. You know what I mean? Yeah. And I didn't want those. A tyrant. Unless you check in with it. Or dead.

You know what I mean? Yeah. And I didn't want those. So I'm going, well, wait a minute, man. What's, you know, how can I? So I needed too many options. I needed to decrease options. I needed to hear myself.

Again, I write about it with the press genes. Oh, yeah. That's a good analogy. When you can, ask yourself if you want to before you do. So with success becomes all of this. I can't write for the first time I can. So shit. Yeah. I want to, well, all of a sudden you go, wait a minute. Some of this stuff isn't really feeding me back. It's not really good for me. So hang on, let me check in. But I was just saying yes, because I'm just happy to be here. Yeah. Look, they're giving me free jackets.

They got to look at these hats. Yeah. You know they're giving me free jackets. Look at these hats. You know? Yeah. Well, I need to start to find a little discernment. What was it? Where were you? What were you shooting when that happened? They put you up in, where was it, in Arizona with the maid?

Yeah, yeah, that was Boys on the Side. Right. And what was that story? That Friend of Yours comes over? So I get this little great little Adobe guest house on the edge of this, like Sparrow national force there. I mean, coyotes howling right outside my door, great little one bedroom loft. He's got a nice kitchen and it comes with a housekeeper. I've never had one before, man. She's making me great, uh,

food breakfast and scrambled eggs and leaving me a dinner at night and having it set out and making my bed and all this stuff leaving water next to my bed cleaning stuff up and she also starts pressing my jeans right like with that little fine line right down the front leg and i have my friend over beth alexander who's now moved on um and i'm like telling her this stuff like like it's my birthday like i just told you yeah and i went and i said look at this man she even presses my jeans and she was just laughing she goes well that's great matthew i said right she goes if you want your jeans pressed and i went i hate that fucking line on my jeans i never thought of that before it's the worst but

but i like that that that became this sort of point of wisdom you know where you you know that was the click you know like yeah it clicked to go yeah what do i want i'd have to take everything even though you don't have to take everything even though for the first time in my life i can get all these things i never got before um so yeah yeah, a little when you when you can ask yourself if you want to before you did. Now, were you brought up with Jesus? Yeah, we were brought up Methodist, which is heavy on the New Testament. Yeah. You know, heavy on the thanks. Heavy on the gratitude. Not so much the the Baptist Old Testament

if you don't do this then you're going to hell it was a lot of forgiveness and gratitude yeah and do you stay with that when you do these walkabouts and stuff is that who you go to

generally or is it broader I mean it's one it's one of the places I go to because I read a lot of great I've read a lot of wonderful stuff that I appreciate

through Jesus' teachings but I go to because I read a lot of great I've read a lot of wonderful stuff that I appreciate through Jesus's teachings, but I go more to Mystics have done a lot of done a lot of the Maestro Eckhart. Yeah, I'd call myself more of an optimistic mystic And then I'm over, you know, I'm obviously learning Islam when I'm over in Africa and respecting how at any time they just lay a mat down and pray through the day, how it's a part of the daily language. It's not like a separate thing that you go on a Wednesday night or a Sunday morning. It's a daily ritual.

And so picked up some things about that, about through the day, how you can pray through the day, whether it's meditation or what have you. You know, the monastery, they're out there in the desert. Part of their view is, look, we're in the desert. And when our mind wanders, we bend a knee and look right at our feet, dirt, rock, whatever, and go, that's of God. Yeah. Everything around us is of God. So that's where they pray because they're surrounded by it. So I'm more of a mix and, you know, different things.

And I've gone to Thailand with the Buddhist as well. So I'm trying to take in what I can. Well, I like in the book that like there was a point where, you know, you kind of hit the wall with with the movies that were kind of you're making you a lot of money. the wall with uh with the movies that were kind of you're making you a lot of money you know i was telling my friend it was funny i was talking to my friend sam lipsight who's a who's a writer in new york he's a novelist i said i'm reading this matthew mcconaughey book and it's sort of like this hero's journey and uh and i said like you know i'm right at this part where he uh he just decides he's not going to do rom-coms anymore. And he says, yeah, there comes a point in the hero's journey where they have to say no to rom-coms. Yeah. It was across the board. Everyone has to do it at some point. I mean, yeah. Like I wrote in the book, they're Saturdays. They're

Saturday characters. They're fun. They're ease. They're flip-flops. They're shorts. It's sunny. They're built to be buoyant, to bounce from cloud to cloud you can do it value and you and you had a skill for it yeah and it's about the jive it's about the the it's about the vibe and you get the right male and female leads and those co-stars that i've been and that's that's it look i mean the lord the rom-com it's not about what my vocation is. You know, how to lose a guy. I'm in an advertising agency. Who cares? It's just about the guy and the girl. They're going to get together.

They're going to break up somehow. They're going to get mad. And then the boy will chase the girl at the end. And then we're going to roll credits. We're all going to go, hey, didn't that feel good? Wasn't that fun? That's the same story over and over and over. People just want to sometimes go, I want to escape and not have to try.

So you're only working your charm muscle. No no it's working more than the charm muscle because they wouldn't have i don't think they would have been successful if it's only working a charm muscle again i what i one of the things i did in the romantic comics i tried to do is try to not you know a lot of times the male is so emasculated in those meaning they come back at the end and just like whoa be me please take me back i am nothing without you right right and i always try to give at least some dignity to that and go look i screwed up right okay yeah um and i really want you back and if you forgive me i think we could really do something great together but i'm not i can't just walk in here and just go if you, if you don't take me back, I'm a nothing.

I was because I was always like I would have these conversations with the directors. I was like that guy that you're talking about that comes back and just goes, whatever. Just take me back. I'm nothing without you. What girl wants that guy? Yeah, it's a load to put on. I go like, yeah, I was walking away. Oh, geez. You know, stand up for yourself a little bit. So I, I was doing those,

having a great time doing them. But as I said in the book, I felt like I wanted to challenge myself in a different way. I felt like, okay, this is easy. I got the script today. I can do this tomorrow morning.

That was fun and easy. But I was like, I want something that I go, I can't do this tomorrow. Yeah. But you took, right. But yeah,

I mean, you turned down a lot of money. You had a wife at that point. You had a kid, you know, right? And that helped me. I mean, look, I called my money manager when I said, I don't want to do rom-coms anymore. I called my money manager.

How did I save my money? Does you save your money well? I said, because I'm about to take off from the work that's been coming my way. I call my agent. He says, great. I said, really? I'm bringing in a nice 10% with these rom-coms to your company you sure it's just great jim toff a minch says i don't work for them i work for you great boom

then i go to camilla her and i've been talking about it i'd shed tears over trying to figure out what it was i wanted to do in my career what i wanted to do and about making this full stop about as i said what i wanted to do was not coming my way so which were meteor parts more interesting deeper characters drama dramas right so they weren't coming my way so if i couldn't get what i wanted i had said my decision was we'll stop doing what it is you don't want to do process of elimination so i said no to the rom-com and it took hollywood quite a while to say, okay, we get the message. And then there was just nothing that came in. Mind you, I had nothing came in. You were taking a risk and you said no more rom-coms and there was nothing.

You weren't getting nothing. So were those nights with your wife where you're like, what the fuck am I going to do, man? What did I do? Hell yeah, there was. Yeah, there was, man. There were some wobbly nights for sure man i'm not going what have i done and then my family's going what are you doing man you turned down that money god damn buddy you're gonna go what do you just go nail it hammer it get out i'm like no no but then

and they understood but they were like geez man sure you're taking you're taking this too serious i'm like no that's what i gotta do and my wife said to me very early on when we agreed to take the sabbatical she said all right we're gonna do this we're doing it all the way and we're not gonna half-ass it she repeated my dad's words to me and so 20 months later after nothing is when i think killer joe was the first thing that came in and then those dramas that i wanted started coming my way and all all of a sudden, I was like, whoa. Killer Joe with Friedkin? Yeah. The Tracy Letts play.

He's a great guy, Tracy. And so is Bill. Friedkin's a trip, right? Yeah, isn't he? I mean, he's over there. What's he doing? Orchestrating some symphony in Czechoslovakia today? Talk about stories, dude.

Oh, my God. I talked to him for like two and a half hours, and it all came together. It was crazy absolutely dude he does on you know what he does one take tells everybody right off the bat you get you get one take he's like that shoot you get one take that's it and everyone goes oh shit one take but what happens when you only know you only have one take is you just don't hold anything back on take one and you just go fuck it well let's let it rip it's actually a great exercise that you can't as an actor rely on oh well i'll fix it or i'll do

something different no you got one here you go it's live right now so you were able so that was your your your kind of re-entry into acting it was that it was paper boy it was mike it was mud when was tropic thunder because that's a great one man tropic thunder was before that oh so i think yeah the the re-entry for me i think was lincoln lawyer a few years killer joe ish did you have fun on tropic thunder oh shit yeah we shot that in kawaii that was so much fun you could tell that that was something when we were doing it. I think it was a genius movie. I think it's a genius fucking satire. And so fun to watch over and over

and over. There's no dead weight in the movie. The whole thing is a romp and a ride and originally funny. So good. When he's having the crisis of identity with the wooden statue and with the little the kid made him an Oscar. And he's putting that guy's teeth in to do the oh my god so good dark man so okay so that so killer joe gets you back in

mud gets you gets you some recognition i under so what did i do in that two years that 20 months i didn't rebrand i unbranded meaning i was not on the beach getting shot shirtless yeah i was not doing rom-com so the your proverbial seat where you were like where's mcconaughey in the world it got to a point where nobody knew where i was it was like this i don't know where i think he's in a trailer new i became a new good idea oh interesting so i was away long enough that i became a new yeah hey you Oh, interesting. So I was away a long enough that I became a new, Hey, you don't be an interesting idea where two years before that,

that would not have been an interesting idea. Yeah. All right. So these movies start coming my way. Those magic Mike paper boy. Um, you know, I had had control of Dallas buyers club,

but nobody wanted to make it with me. Um, but I started, you know, I made a few movies that were critically successful and made some bank. They were original characters. And all of a sudden,

somebody who might be able to get Dallas Buyers Club financed. Still, no one wanted to finance a 1980s period age drama. But you, how'd you, what do you mean? So you had, you were attached to it for years. Yeah. How did that happen? How did you... That came to me. I read it, loved it, and said,

there's something here. This is an unsentimental way to tell this story. I want this. So I attached myself to it. Now that's just a... That means... Alright, McConaughey's's attached we can go out to look for directors there were plenty of times other people tried to come swipe it from me and i was like to my age just do not let that one go that i believe we'll see it today with me and

somewhere down the line and thankfully it did it's interesting how it came together but what i found like in the reading the book that you know you, you got to know what was his name? Woodson. What's the character's name? Ron Woodruff. Woodruff. Like that. You got to know his daughter and his his mother, his sister.

And they gave you his diary. The diary. Yeah. Yeah. So you were really able to kind of like I imagine the depth depth of that and you're working with Penny, right? Yeah. Working with Penny. And you had all that information. Now I'm seeing the guy from the inside out. Now I'm seeing the guy that's not written about in the script. I'm seeing the guy before he got HIV. Right. All right. So now I've got this whole story and it's in his words. And I, as a, you know,

I saw this sort of this, this dreamer, like I said, this guy who, you know, really he had these doodles, you know, you could tell when he was getting high or whatever,

doodle in his diary. And then he'd write things about like, I'm going to go tomorrow morning, you know, 7 a.m. I'm going to install these speakers for the Johnson's over across town. You know, I've got speakers. I got to go get some monster cable and he did real fine,

real tiny writing and add it all up to the penny. That means I'll have like $6 and 42 cents worth of gas. I'll get me back. And then he'd get up on a second cup of coffee, ironing his shirt before he goes to work. And his pager would go off. And it'd be like, Oh, I'm sorry, Ron, we don't need that. We're going with somebody else who can insure themselves boom now what's he do when i his days his ambition for the day was kind of gone so now he's gonna head over to sonic and see old nancy blake and ship and maybe go shag up a little bit and get him a double

cheeseburger and you can call it call it a day and friday night's coming early right this is just like mundane details of this guy who, you know, becomes this kind of like the arc and the hero of this, this tale. Like you were able to humanize him to a depth that's not usually available because you had, you had his own words, you know? Yeah. Well, it also allowed me not to go in and play a guy who has HIV.

Who's the man before he had HIV? I played that guy who actually gets HIV. Yeah. He also, you know, you saw how extravagant he would dress up for Halloween stuff

and he loved jazz and he liked to go up to the Northeast and he was kind of a carny performer, you know, and his family told him about things

he would invent but he wouldn't get the patent on. Like he didn't quite follow through. He'd invent and then all of a sudden they'd go get the patent and he'd go like, no, no, no. And then two years later someone would get the patent like he didn't quite follow through he didn't vent and then all of a sudden they go get the patent he got no no no and then two years later someone would get the patent on his idea and steal it from him and he's like he never quite followed through certain

things and there was a certain humanity and and loneliness to that of a guy who was kind of drifting um that told just told me a lot i had the the inside track on it. Yeah. It was, yeah. It was such a great character. Great movie. Great job. You know? And it's like one of those, it's nice. Like it was one of those years where, you know, you win best actor and you're like, Hey, he deserved it. You know what I mean? Oh, cool. You know what I mean? It wasn't like, how the fuck did that? You know? Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And you were pretty lit up that night you went with your oh yeah man

you went with your mom right with my mom and camilla my wife yeah um that was uh yeah that was a real special i remember you know i was getting pretty numb uh as the category came up and the kind of the whole room kind of went like, and I remember just looking at the names and going, no one else's name starts with an M. So if you hear a, that means it's you. And I remember laying my head back and I, and I was like, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. And then I would look around me and my mom stands up, my friend Kevin Moore stands up, Camilla stands up there.

And I'm like, started with a M. They called my name it's it's interesting that you know something that you put that much work into and that was that personal for you and that you championed the thing all the way through were you a producer on it or no uh no but it was but you your collaboration with the director was kind of tight, right? Yeah. John Mark Vallee, who's now gone on to direct so many more things. He had done a film called Crazy, which when I saw that film called Crazy,

I don't know if you've ever seen it. Y'all check it out. It's wild. It's fun and really well told. And again, I write the book. I don't know how he got the money to get that soundtrack. That guy gets music, and I don't know how he gets the music for the budgets he has anyway he was the right guy for it and what was it like because I have to also assume that you're given I mean the fucking

vulnerabilities of I've been watching a lot of old movies in quarantine and really kind of noticing you know what really makes a scene or a performance work is a vulnerability you know, what really makes a scene or a performance work is a vulnerability, you know? Let's open up that word because I've had not the best relationship with that word through my life or what that means. Okay. I'm with you. And I'm more involved. I like the word now and understand it.

Well, like an example that I was heading towards. Well, I mean, I think that like it seems to me that vulnerability to you would somehow be somewhere in the uh the area of weakness it used to be right yeah but i but i i imagine it's primarily because you didn't recognize it and your definition was tied i think you're right i think that's correct yeah like for me you know, the ability for you to engage in the character that, you know, was being humiliated by this disease and also find strength with it. And also, you know, you'll have to reckon with the judgment reserved for people that he wasn't, you know, that he could not get away from. And then develop a relationship with Jared Lato's character that you surrendered to. I mean, that's as vulnerable as you can get on screen, really.

Yeah. I mean, maybe I, I mean, it's just, I mean, it's super human. I mean, I, you know, what was always in my pocket was in my pocket as, as, as Ron Woodruff as an actor was, it's got to do whatever it takes to stay alive. That's the, I mean, that's like the ultimate talk about the ultimate obstacle to overcome.

I mean, that's like the baseline. What's your job? I'm trying to stay alive. And you know what? The other thing I'm going to buy, I'm not, when I said earlier,

the unsentimentality of that film dealing with that subject matter. Ron was a businessman. He was trying to make money. Right. So that sort of undercut, he was never the guy who waved the white flag for the cause. No, no, I get that. But but when when his humanity got so stripped down, he couldn't help but feel empathetically with the humanity of somebody else 100 100 so that you know that that's a vulnerability that's earned despite the character's intentions right right yep huh yeah i i mean i i think the word to me means that you you know whether you mean to or not in the character or whether the character means to or not where you know the human heart is exposed, you know, so,

so everybody can feel it. Right. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And that, that, I mean, look, I gotta say this, man, a script written well, yeah. A character that goes through real things like that. Those are the, you, you, you, you listed a few, the relationship with Leto's character, you know, a world that's ostracizing him. I mean, those are great obstacles to overcome and engage it. If that's, if those scenarios are not there, those are dynamic.

That's not, we talk about rom-coms floating across the cloud. That's not rom-com stuff. That's like the basement. That's what, that's what's great about dramas the basement of your lowest base levels of pain and rage and everything it's as low as an actor as you want to go it's up to me it's up to me in that character i can go as far deep as i want to go now the extent the ceiling yeah of joy um of life the vitality is as high as I want it to be. In rom-coms, you're compressed. The ceiling can't be too high,

the basement can't be too low. You'll sink the ship if you go too low. You get a good drama, it's like, it's up to you. The ceiling, there's no roof and there's no basement. You go, tell me how you feel. Show me your rage.

Show me your ecstasy. Right, and you don't have to analyze it you know what that means you know it's just you know you can feel the character well it's interesting that you the character that that that your relationship with the idea of vulnerability because like that's another thing that was noticing the book that you know you definitely you know keep some shit to yourself and you know and and some of it is emotional shit and you know you kind of give short shrift to certain things where you like even you know and some of it is emotional shit and you know you kind of give short shrift to certain things where you like even you know whatever that journey was through that 20 months

you must have been you know just a pain in the ass and a wreck and a panic in some ways right but you at times at times i sure was and then like there's this other thing where we had to go back to texas for personal So there's obviously struggles and, and real shit that, you know, you're like, I'm going to keep this to me because I gotta, you know, I gotta own that. That's, that's my own heart. And here's why I spent, let's bring up the family deal. That's just, if I bring up what it was that I came back for the family deal, the family crisis, if I go into details of that, I'm not interested in opening up my profile into my and so now people want to ask that and that's that's that's not the profile on me and my my family something

happened in my family that's a different book that's and that's why i say that's why bedrooms have doors on them bro no i get it not you i'm just saying i'm not you you know what i mean i'm saying there's certain things where it's like no you know what um i'll leave that up too right right but like but see for me you know seeing you now and talking now i'm like i wonder how he handled that shit you know what i mean well whatever the fuck it was because like you know i know how you handle you know like your your decision to to go to africa because you came in your bed you know but like life life handed up some shit you know like what yes how do you deal with that shit oh yes there were there were nightmares amongst the wet dream yeah yeah right yeah but i i get

that's a different book but i i think that's also has like i don't know that you'll ever write that book and it has something to do with your aversion to the idea of vulnerability look we got 24 hours in a day you and i sit here and talk we got an hour hour and a half i'm one for um you know i still have a little bit of that survival mechanism i don't like to hear i don't want to hear all of your big problems either i like to hear how you overcome and go through them but i'm gonna go look that part happened it's not constructive to the story of how i got out of it um i don't like i'm like a little bit of that day being got something good to say don't say it at all there's plenty of times i don't say i'm not i'm not i'm doing stuff and saying stuff. It's not the most constructive.

I step in plenty of shit myself. Um, but I'm not gonna, I don't want to open that up to someone's armchair psychoanalysis of you. So you went through the, with your family and they were going through that. There's another situation. So did you, I mean, I talk, you know, I mean, I talk about non-deserving complexes, times I'm feeling insignificant and, and all those things, but that's my family business, the family business in the same way. I don't talk, it's not a tell-all book. I don't go in and tell you things about people I worked with that are negative to the end or make you go, Oh, that's juicy. You know, I'm like, that's nobody else's business. That's just decency. I believe it's just decent being me being decent. Sure. And it's also protecting the people you love on on another level sure right yep but uh so i

like the list at the end it's nice you know that like and i thought that i believe you i believe you how about that i believe that how about that i believe that that's a list that you wrote when you were uh 1992 or three 10 10 goals in life become a father find and keep the woman for me keep my relationship with god chase my best self be be an egotistical utilitarian utilitarian yeah yeah well that's that's sort of that's the system in the book take yeah yeah yeah it is take more risks stay close to mom and family win an oscar for best actor look back and enjoy the view just keep living so that that's nice when you because like i i know that about myself like and you didn't know this list was around until you started going through the shit to write the book i forgot where i put that list the day after

i wrote it right like there's things in my mind where i'm like i want to manifest that but i don't want to talk about it too much and i just know i'm write it down on a note and then years later you're like okay i i don't know how i did it but i did it right right where subconsciously yeah if if what we write down it's true it's in our lineage yeah and it's the things that i notice that i'll write down i go i'm chasing if i'm playing grab ass with my thoughts or grab ass with my memories trying to chase it down i'm like oh you didn't quite mean it i'd say this book i write things i write everything down so i can forget it you know what i mean i write it down because i go oh i don't want to forget that so i

write it down so i can right Right. I definitely relate to that. So how's your level of loathing these days? I'm happy to say it's pretty low. That's good. I'm more loathing for what do we, can we get through this year? Can we get through COVID? Can we get through the culture revolution? Can we get through this year? Can we get through COVID? Can we get through the culture revolution?

Can we get through the election? Yeah. Without having a civil war. I don't know. Can we constructively turn a page here? When does that balance? When, when can that proverbial hand on the clock that was maybe oppressed to the four.

So when can it, if six is justice and right now it's swung over to eight and bypassed, straight up winking it level out, and we can go, okay. Right. Yeah. Where are we going? Where are we going? It's about us.

Where are we going? And for me, I'd like to meet you in the middle, man. I'd like to meet you in the table like this and go, let's talk about it. Let's have some conversations about condemnations. Let's see how this COVID time with this invisible enemy we had, how can we, what are the positives? What are the assets this time? Well, I've been forced to do more inventory. I've been spending more time with my kids. I've been doing more cooking with my kids. My kids are taking up on their creative hobbies more than they were before. I've been petting my dogs longer.

Yeah. There are some assets to it. So where do we get it? What's the way we're going to work? Are we doing this? Is this the way you and I talk for the rest of our life? I hope not. Maybe.

Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Maybe. And it's got its assets too, because there's a lot of people that I'm doing. I talk with on Zoom.

Yeah. But I'm like, I prefer this. Yeah. It I'm like, I prefer this. Yeah. It's easier. You know, so my loathing is more about, and look,

I'm in no place. I can't, I don't, I'm not in a place to that. I've got my own stress going on to hold, keep our ship afloat here, keep our head above water

as a family, which is my first priority. But I'm more, I might, you know, I'm in a privileged position. My pantry's full. Yeah. I don't have to work today to pay my rent tomorrow. So I'm in a privileged position that a lot of people are not. My loathing is more for those people

that cannot. And what are we going to do as humanity on behalf of turn the page out of this? Yeah. Well, I, you know, it's really hard to say, man. Um, it it's a lot to carry every day because depending on, you know, I'd rather have your brain than mine in times like this. In the sense that, like, you know, it's hard not to get, you know, weighted down with the darkness of it. It is, but I think we've got to believe, man. Yeah. I mean, what's our alternative? We've got to believe that there's a light out of this where we're gonna evolve we have to if not if we don't believe that and it is the end of the world well then fuck it we might as well believe we can get out of it anyway or there's

the end of the country i don't ireland's nice you spend time in ireland could you live in ireland singapore is nice i mean right now i think more than ever it's a time which like where do you want to live on the planet earth and I'm even thinking about for the first time in my life was it all restrained to earth only oh right yeah you know what I mean where you know when's Branson getting the rocket done I'm ready but where on the planet do you do would you really like to live yeah for you and your family your your kids? And you're with, this is an example, these discussions like this, this remote living, that you can kind of live wherever the hell you want and be wherever you want. I know.

That's the weird thing. It's like, yeah, it is a privileged place to be to make those kind of decisions, be able to make those kind of decisions. But to realize, I don't know, we got to, I guess, it's like hope for the best is one thing. But obviously something has shifted kind of permanently. And there is an adaptation to make, you know, whether or not we fall on, you know, the, you know, on the side of sustaining life on the planet or we don't. It's tough. It's a tough call right now.

But we'll see. Yes. Okay. Yes, we will see. We will see we will see and i hope you know that god we do we don't we it's so easy right now you know you got the perfect community trying you got unemployment you got this invisible uh murderer called covid who is also in our psyche because you know americans we want to meet the enemy at the gate this is one of those ones, yeah, that's where I want to I want you to meet me. Come on out.

Sure. So you can take it back in your home. So or you can choose to deny it. Yeah, we've got or deny it even exist. Yeah, we've got the Bermuda Triangle of, you know, of covid, you know, of environmental problems and a tremendous kind of chaotic lack of leadership that's making it's exacerbated it's it's crazy town and so and so what do we do and this is why part of the reason we're getting even more extreme right now people don't have an identity they've lost purpose they're wondering what the fuck's going on in the world i don't know what the next step is i'm unemployed well i want to cling on to something to feel like my feet are on the ground how about so where are they clinging on to these tribes that are way over here how about hate let's cling on to hate yeah yeah i don't know what

i want but i know what i don't want and that's whatever you're selling yeah you know what i mean i got somebody says the other day i said they said where you sit flip because man i'm aggressively centric said i'm i'll meet you in the middle man i'm like yeah ain't nothing in the middle but yellow ain't nothing in the middle of the highway but yellow lines and dead armadillos and i said well let me tell you something but i said i'm walking down the middle here and the armadillos are running free because the left and the right are so far to the left and the right their tires ain't even on the fucking pavement they're in the dirt yeah i got free road here the shoulder yeah yeah yeah open road well we'll see what happens man but i you know i enjoyed the book i'm glad we talked.

I enjoyed it. I am too. I enjoyed it. I was looking forward to talking to you and glad we did. And I enjoyed your work. We didn't talk about True Detective. That was great. No, thank you. I missed that.

Yeah, it's always good to see you, buddy. Good to see you. Carry on. If you ever get back to Abiquiú, go hop over there. Old Brother Christian's the abbot over there. I will. Maybe I'll see you at Opie sometime. Deal.

Okay, man. Sausage and jalapeno corn i'm in let's keep living thanks buddy later there you go there's a moment in there and i'm not gonna you know tell you which one it was where i think you you get a window into what's behind all right all right all right now i will play some distorted loud guitar for you it was where I think you get a window into what's behind. All right, all right, all right. Now I will play some distorted loud guitar for you. Thank you. Boomer lives Monkey Lafonda All the cat angels Yeah Oh, the deliver those.

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