WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1171 - David Cross

Episode Date: November 2, 2020

David Cross is one of Marc's oldest friends in show business. And right now is a good time for them to catch up, as David balances his life as the dad to a three-year-old with the demands of going back to work on film and television sets during the pandemic. David explains to Marc how he was feeling more antisocial even before COVID-19 hit, why he wanted to become a dad late in life, and what he had to physically endure while making his new movie, The Dark Divide. Marc and David also compare notes after both of them played Jerry Wexler for dueling Aretha Franklin projects. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls, and arancini balls? Yes, we deliver those. Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol, and we deliver that too.

Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries, and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol, you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing.

With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck, Knicks? What's happening? I'm Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF.

Welcome to it. I assume most of you have been here before. Maybe there's some new people. I don't know why this would be the day that you would check in all of a sudden. But if you're here, welcome. If you don't know what we do here, we talk openly and honestly about the struggles of being a human being on almost all levels. We talk freely and openly about many different things. Vulnerability, creativity, art, work, fear, substance abuse, politics. We talk about everything with people to get to the heart of what people are. I think that's what we do here. So if that sounds

good, welcome. If you already knew that's what we did here. Well, there you go. Sorry. You know, like what am I doing? What am I doing right now? What am I even talking about right now? Jesus Christ. Tomorrow is like this. It's like I'm beyond stress. I'm post stress. I'm post-stress. I'm post-fear. I'm post-nervousness. I'm in some sort of strange paralysis that feels like the present, that feels like acceptance on some level. I know what we're up against. I know all the machinations of the garbage people and what they're going to try to do to steal the country, to destroy democracy. I know all of that. I know how the voting works. I know what we're up against.

You know, in the next day or two or next week or next month, we'll know whether American democracy is over. Or we get new management and try to salvage what's left from the wreckage. salvage what's left from the wreckage so either we'll get that opportunity with new management to salvage what's left of our institutions our norms our system of government we'll be able to salvage that with new management you know perhaps take a responsible approach to this sickness that's leveling the global economy and destroying people perhaps we'll get a chance to salvage that with new management new leadership or else it will be sold as salvage by the current situation by the garbage people and the grifters and the con men and the incompetent children put in charge of big bureaucracies that a lot of people

depend on who give zero fucks about those people's lives sold to salvage it's a fucking nightmare but that's the precipice we're on and i don't know how i why i'm i've arrived where i'm at today the day before this election and go vote if you haven't for fuck's sake. There's no excuse not to, really. There's no principle you can sit on for that one. Well, I'm not going to vote because shut up. Before I get too caught up, let's lighten it up a little bit. I made a cake. Anyway, Dave Cross is on the show today. now dave's been on before dave's an old friend of mine this is actually dave's sixth time on the show he's been on two live ones two in the garage one on the phone but this is really this is actually the first time we've talked to dave in a

while and uh you know he's got he's in this new movie where i think he really puts the work in as an actor but more importantly you know i saw him on tv new movie where I think he really puts the work in as an actor. But more importantly, you know, I saw him on TV. I was just flipping around. And I've talked a bit about this before. You know, I don't know if it's nostalgia or just taking stock of who we are by going over our past. I was watching Dave Cross on TV on one of his specials. And there was just something so

familiar about the way Dave talked and moved and thought. From back in the day, we kind of started out together, and it made me remember or made me feel, made me know that I came from someplace and that I arrived somewhere else. When I showed up in Boston and I met all these dudes and I committed my life, my fucking heart to stand up comedy. You become sort of this weird family. It's not necessarily that supportive or whatever, but we were a crew of fucking gypsies and weirdos. You know, bordering on outlaws. Just trying to find our way in this goddamn racket and try to figure out who we were up there.

And, you know, he was part of that beginnings and he's one of the guys who i i see and he's remained himself at his core in a way but i've seen him kind of grow up but whatever the fact is whatever the case the familiarity made me feel good it made me feel emotional made me feel like i i have uh i have memories and friends in the world that I can sort of be grateful for and be happy about. And then it just came to be that Dave and I get to talk. Got to talk. He's got this new movie out.

It's called The Dark Divide. It's playing in theaters and in virtual cinema. You can go to darkdividefilm.com to find out the best way to see it. The Dark Divide. It's playing in theaters and in virtual cinema. You can go to darkdividefilm.com to find out the best way to see it based on a true story. Talk to him about that and about other stuff. But getting back to it, tomorrow, I don't know what to expect, but I'm going away. I'm going to have somebody set up shop here at the house for a few days and watch my little cat buster. And I'm going to just go up and isolate, really.

I'm going to isolate, try to disconnect until the 4th. And by then, it should be, everything should be on fire with no known winner. And Trump declaring himself the winner. And, you know, just flaming violence in every major city. I'm kidding. That can't happen. What can it? We'll see. But the truth is, I'd have to prepare. I have to prepare. And I guess this is how I framed it, sadly, that either we're going to get the new management or we're going to enter into a very dark authoritarian time, an aggressively sort of kind of proud fascistic time of minority rule and chaos that has happened to many countries around the world. Most countries have gone through it.

For some reason, we just didn't think it could happen here. And now we know how fragile it all is, don't we? And we'll see what happens. I think there is a better outcome. Obviously, new management would be good, but it's going to be an uphill slog. But the weird thing is, is we know who everybody is now. Everybody knows who their neighbors are. Everyone knows who their family is and where they stand. Who are the people that crave fascism? Who are the people that crave simplicity? expression, art, ethnicity, gender, choices. And it's interesting now to see, you know, who is who's jockeying for relevance in the possibility of authoritarianism? What is the fascistic demographic? Who's going to play to the fascist demographic? Like, obviously, you talk about these bubbles and these bubbles are political and people are being misinformed by their bubble like if you talk about the fox news bubble you know you can see the simplicity of it you can see the editorialization of it you can see them avoiding

certain stories to feed a propaganda machine that engages and encourages american fascism you can see it and there's no follow-up when those people want to source their information they go straight to the bullshit spigot and uh you know connect the dots land of random conspiracy theories so that's that there's your demographic who are the entertainers in that future i don't know a few country artists a couple of podcasters that we know a few comics kanye but whatever it is the fascistic demographic will will exist and be marketed to that's how capitalism is going to survive hopefully it will not be the form of government we'd be better off if it just becomes a demographic of sorts as opposed to

the replacement of democracy i don't know man i just don't know do you you know i made a cake the other day i told you about the failed kentucky butter cake but it's just in my mind it's just the way I am. I'm like, I got to fucking master this. So I went at it again and I made a beautiful Kentucky Butter Cake, whatever that is. Powdered sugar on top, had some nice slices, gave my friend Kip part of it. Gave my neighbor a couple slices. Gave my therapist a slice. Still had many slices left.

Three days in, I finally threw the remaining three slices away. Because nobody wants three-day-old cake. And I already eaten like half of it. Not to mention I'm sitting on a trove of fucking Halloween candy. Nobody came out for Halloween. I guess they, in LA, they said you couldn't. I didn't even know that. And I already bought the goddamn candy.

I was out in the street chasing kids down. The two or three that were out there with their parents, I had to go out in front, you know, at the end of my sidewalk and look around and go like, you want candy? I got candy. I got candy over here. Who wants candy some people know costumes so one kid walking around dressed as a cop had a weird moment where i thought he was dressed as an ice agent but it wasn't it was just a cop and he had a whistle

must have been for this kid didn't even know what he was doing just blowing on the whistle with his mom wandering around walking him around and gave him some candy and i gave a teenage mutant ninja some candy and a couple of witchy looking girls a little bit of candy with their folks and everybody's wearing masks i'm not wearing the scary mask or i maybe i'm wearing the scariest mask of all the mask of hopelessness in the face of plague. What'd you go as? A frightened middle-aged man who can't see the future clearly anymore and is battling with hope and existential despair. Wow, that's scary. I know. And all it took is just a little mask and I was able to pull it off.

So now I got a bunch of that candy. Cake's gone though. I'm going to go away for a few days and see if I can do that. It's weird. I'm going myself, but I'm going myself. Dave Cross is an old friend and I was happy to talk to him. His new movie, The Dark Divide is now playing in theaters and virtual cinema. You can go to darkdividefilm.com to find the best way to see it. We also talk about how we're both playing Jerry Wexler in two different Aretha Franklin projects. And also, we tried this new thing where we sent Dave a microphone that he could use. It's pretty easy to use. And we're trying to get the sound quality up a bit and we sent him the microphone

and we spent 15 minutes trying to help him set it up which was, as you know, Dave how is that not going to be hilarious? Right? Alright. This is me talking to my old friend, David Cross. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+.

We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun. A new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on

Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hello, David. Hey, how are you? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. What's the matter? I forgot we were friends.

So, yeah, it could be better. It could be worse. I'm not here for a job interview. Yeah, it's me, Mark. Remember? So, did you... You haven't used this before. I've used it here at home. I tried it to make sure it was good. And it does give a pretty good...

How's this? Is this better? It's great to me. Thank you guys so much for gifting me this microphone. Wait a minute. I thought we were. That's what I said to Brendan. I said to Brendan right before this, you're the first guy we sent it to.

I'm like, we're gonna have to get another one because someone's not going to send this back. Well, when I got the, I got it in the mail. Nobody told me this is coming or to expect it. And I got this box from Marc Maron, you know, an old boot box.

Maybe not even that old boot. You seem like the kind of guy who collects boots. Am I right? What does that mean? Why would you say that? It means you have more than a pair of boots. Yes. Why are you seeing this as a negative?

Because what does that mean about me? You immediately got defensive. How many boots? People collect things, Mark, all over. It's a fine thing to do. It kind of goes against your hippie ego. No, no. People know I collect boots.

I just like boots. I didn't know that. I have quite a few boots. It makes sense. You seem I collect boots. I just like boots. I didn't know that. I have quite a few boots. It makes sense. You seem like the kind of guy who collects boots. Okay. And then it's like also, you know, oddly, I don't want to say shy about it, but it feels a sense of shame, clearly. Well, I just wanted to know if there was judgment uh in what you were saying you know i understand i think you you that's your default you just go to i'm being judged on you know just tell me i get some can i get some milk two percent or whole oh god what do i say uh two percent no whole no two percent all right all right but you were judging me when you said that, right? Yes.

All right. So you got the box from me. send me uh not necessarily because it's me but just send a uh like a present or something that i i initially thought oh this is going to be something from the 80s that you found that uh you know is uh you know personal to the something we had yeah yeah yeah exactly right and um and i just got back from do i seem like that guy that's going to send you a thing from Atlanta? Yeah, I mean, I think you would. I think you... There's that hat. Remember the hat?

Why not? Yeah. If you found something, I mean, now that you have an assistant, I don't think you'd do it on your own. I don't think you'd take it and go down to the post office yourself and wait in line. But if you have an assistant where you can go, hey, Jenny, here's an address, go send this to my friend Dave.

Frank. You would do that. I have Frank. He's part-time. He doesn't live here. Doesn't check my emails for me. I was at the post office myself today. I'm not saying that you're being judgmental, but maybe I'm being a little defensive. Okay, that's fine. But you acknowledge that. I had somebody do that, yeah. Yeah, you acknowledge that you wouldn't necessarily do it. You'd be more inclined to, if you had an assistant, as I would too. If I had an assistant, I'd say, I mean, I would say Jenny, because I would only hire an assistant named Jenny or somebody willing to answer to Jenny.

assistant named Jenny or somebody willing to answer to Jenny and say, Jenny, will you take this down to the post office? Now I'm in Brooklyn. So the post office is literally, you know, 75 yards away. It's not a big deal. And if it was raining or inclement weather, I'd say, wait on it. It's just Mark Marin. It's just a hat for Mark Marin. It can wait a day or two until it clears up. So I'm saying that you're we're too we're too we're brothers in that yes and and and and that you weren't expecting the mic so it came and you didn't know anything about it you didn't know if it was a gift or anything was there no instruction at all nothing you just had no so so

when you're when you're public i didn't open it up at first i had just gotten back uh uh i traveled all day with my three and a half year old just the two of us and you know uh on the plane getting to getting from the airport with luggage and all this stuff oh my god you're flying during this shit storm i had to i had to go to atlanta um to finish shooting something that shut down during covid right so in in uh we almost done i was halfway through episode six only one more episode after that and it shut down and i had to come back here uh and then everything just turned to shit um and i had to go back in and you know they started up again very safe it was very uh i was nervous uh quite nervous at first let me ask you something about that so because, cause like I,

I've been offered a couple of things here and there and I'm just sort of like, if I don't have to do it, I'm not doing it. Okay. So it was safe, but it was, was it any fun at all? Uh, does the fear ruin the fun? No, it was, um, it was a much different situation than before. You couldn't have a lot of people in one place while you're shooting. So it was sort of blocked in a much different way than it would normally be blocked, your scenes, and shot a little bit differently. But the level of, we were tested every two days yeah and uh you don't walk in everything was in three zones right so you had people in zone a zone b and zone c and you couldn't interact

with other people all rehearsals were done with masks and um shields and then you just take them off for the uh for the actual scene and obviously because it's porn you know it's like much more intense there's a lot of sure yeah germs flying around but um you know you're able to make do uh if that's a euphemism yeah yeah and um uh but yeah it was it was i was very nervous about everything even flying and uh that was i thought that both airports, LaGuardia and Atlanta were really on top of everything. The actual flight was was very safe. I felt I was very, very nervous because we've been so careful here, my family and I. And, you know, it was really bad like those those uh in march mid-march to mid-april was scary and weird and surreal and uh and i think that's in part why new york rallied like they did because it was so bad um and we just have less of those you know dumb people i mean there's a plenty in like staten island and long island right um we don't have those like, it's tyranny, I can't breathe.

You know, we don't have that. It's not that part of the country. And so, but yeah, just to get back to it, it was, I felt very safe. Yeah, because. Oh, you know, this is for the thing that you, we're playing duel Jerry Wexler. Yeah, so we're doing dueling Wexlers.

Yes, pretty cool. It is cool, but let me hear your Wexler voice. You know, it was deeper. It was because I got the audio. There wasn't a whole lot of audio. There was a little bit of audio, yeah, and he talked like this. Right, but I didn't go deeper. He was Bronx.

He was like, you know. Yeah, but you went deeper you actually went deeper i kind of i kept it around here you know i i talk like this and and talk to normal believe me i would have preferred to do that but uh that's how we you know it would be easier i guess to do that uh because i would always and i mean always by take three i'd be right back up to that pitch that's you know that's mine like more like this yeah especially if you got something to say because uh he talks pretty quickly yeah and uh um and i would find myself rising up in the director

so wait you did a you did a bunch of episodes as wex were yes because i'm just in like we just did the movie so you did the scene where did you do the scene where you yell at the guy who runs the studio? No. Did you have a fight with that guy? No? That sounds, what, the Muscle Shoals? Yeah, yeah, Rick, Rick, yeah. No, I thought Ted had the fight with him.

No, he did, yeah. The Ted had one. Oh, and then Jerry says something. No, I mean, unfortunately, that sounds like it would have been fun and juicy. I didn't have a whole lot of juicy stuff to do in it. Did you have to change a lot of outfits? How many years? What's the span of the Wexler?

Oh, dude, it went from early mid-60s, like I want to say 62, and then the last year is 79. Right. So lots of outfits, lots of hair pieces that get thinner and grayer and big see like i wish i was bald because like you know they like seriously they uh they they spent all this money to make a a bald wig for me because i had to keep my hair for glow and i was real nervous about because it was oh that's right yeah So they went through that whole thing to make me bald like Deborah Messing in your movie. And but then they do all that. And then they put the little bit of hair on me to make me like Wexler.

And it looked ridiculous because you can't your face can't express. You can see there's no way no matter how good the bald wig is that you're not going to see. I mean, that just begs the question. Why did they hire you because she liked me and she thought we were going to be able to do it this way but she i'm kidding i know but she she obviously opted to no wig and just fucking deal with my hair so like we there's a little give to that so it worked out all right. Yeah, it was pretty exciting. He has a lot of hair until really until the mid, mid, early 70s. He has what era were you doing? We did the 60s through the it sort of ends at the the concert in the church.

Yeah, that was the second last episode I shot. Right, right. And then the the last episode, I'm not in that much. It's really just in the beginning where i tell her i'm leaving atlantic and then it's like five years later that we catch up so yeah oh right so when did uh when is your wax square gonna air because i think our movie's gonna air like january oh i you know they were trying to they changed it like three or four times i mean i imagine they'll change it even again. It was supposed to air.

I think it was supposed to air in the late summer, early fall, like now-ish. And then they moved it to, they were trying to back into a Thanksgiving thing. And they were like, there's no way that's going to happen. So I think they're looking at spring of next year i don't know though but did you did you like i read i read his autobiography which is written by this guy uh with this guy ritz who's kind of an interesting guy in himself but the autobiography was to see the footage of that guy and read um his his whole story that the fact that he he just doesn't look like the kind of i mean he was like in pool halls when he was 14 yeah yeah he doesn't look like that kind of guy at all well i think i think the

fighting was different and more jewish, um, was there a less, uh, there was less intensity to the fights back there. There was more cowering behind things. Well, he had just like this profound impact on music. I reading about that guy. I was like,

Holy shit. Oh, it's insane. He, he, I mean, he, you know,

we, uh, I'm sure you know this. He, uh, coined the, the phrase rhythm and blues. Yeah, I mean, he, you know, I'm sure you know this. He coined the phrase rhythm and blues. Rhythm and blues. Yeah, that was him. And also like, you know, his daughter, like there's some sadness to the whole thing, but

he was there all the way through the Allman Brothers. He did Capricorn Records and he like did. He did Dire Straits. He discovered Dire Straits. It's crazy. It's crazy. And all these stories about going down to New Orleans to look at talent. And he was, anyways, I thought it to be pretty fascinating.

He's the Rick Rubin of his time, kind of. And I'm not trying to be funny. There's a parallel. There kind of is, except it seems to me. Yeah, I guess so. I guess why not? I tend to romanticize guys who have to get in their cars to drive. I romanticize a guy who has to get on his phone to make radio stations play the goddamn Aretha Franklin single. He's working the phones on that whole thing.

Whereas I don't think Rick had to do that, really. No. Well, Rick probably had pagers and fax machines. And he probably had Jenny. From his dorm. He was working out of a dorm. That's right. He was, wasn't he? Yeah. Yeah.'s the place in brooklyn you've got there uh where i am

now yeah yeah yeah you live in brooklyn i do i've lived in brooklyn since 2011 really because like i just like but you've still got the place in the country. I just assume you're off the grid. So you got the house up there and you got a and you got a house in Brooklyn. Um, yeah. Uh, and honestly didn't, uh, never really, uh, imagine that I would be as into it as I was. I, I, you know, not trying to be funny, but I discovered some stuff about myself just how, um, for somebody who was so, uh, uh, social, uh, especially in Nework city and i'd be out all the time and uh albeit awkwardly i was awkward but um like i'm really anti-social i didn't and and i've probably become more anti-social as i've gotten older but i mean i love it up there and then you know i met amber who became my wife and then we had a kid and etc cetera, et cetera. And, uh, um, uh, it's been the one constant, you know? Yeah. But wait, wait, wait. So back up like that. So like, okay.

So you found out that you were sort of antisocial or at least just, you know, better off not, well, I guess we all used to force ourselves. I mean, you're drinking the beers, you're going out, you're hanging out with people running around. and then and then but like because i i seem to remember like how long has it been you since you've been with amber uh we we met uh in early early 2008 like end of february march 2008 wow and um and it was really quick i mean we were once i mean she like was basically moved in in a matter of months and that was it. And we never, you know, to the Brooklyn, but not in Brooklyn though. That was in East village in the East village. Now that, yeah, I kind of remember you being at that place, but I can't remember really the last

time we hang out at all. So it must be a really long time, but you like, it just struck me. Were you, were you, were you against marriage or just, you didn't see yourself having children? I can't remember which it was. I was, I was never anti-marriage. I just never understood the, uh, the reason for it. I always thought, you know, if you are going to be with somebody, be with somebody, it's fine. Uh, there was, I never had any kind of anti-marriage stance. I just didn't think it would be for me. I didn't see myself as the kind of person who would be married. I didn't desire it. I basically had that stance until I met somebody that I wanted

to marry, and that was that. But did she ask you to marry her, or did you ask her to marry her or do you ask her to marry you? Other people asked us to marry each other. Oh, that's interesting. So you're getting a lot of input. Yeah, it was a very it was very we were in the middle of a rom-com and we were taking a train Upper West Side. And we were having kind of an argument, which was, you know, clearly we were covering up this tension between us. And then these people were going like, why don't you just kiss her? You know, it was a very there was an old Chinese guy and a lot of people involved. Yeah. You know, some very spunky, precocious African-American children. There were an elderly Jewish couple.

So you couldn't leave the house without people just always as soon as we'd leave they hung out they waited for us and then they were just like why don't you ask her to marry you you know and um and then uh a mexican polka band started playing yeah and you got on your knee and yeah yeah and then and we sold it to netflix and you know that's uh how i used the money to buy this place. And did you do a big wedding thing? Yeah, medium size. We did it upstate, right along the river over where we live. I think I kind of remember, like 2000 and what?

12. Wow. Yeah. We just had our anniversary like two-ish weeks ago, something like that. Because I like her her and she's a great writer and good person you both you know are like-minded but now this children thing was that did you ever see yourself doing that yeah for sure you did for sure not in a proactive way i just could easily picture having a kid i wanted a kid but not in um i mean i even like would daydream

like what if i just adopted by myself and uh i just wanted a kid in my life you did yeah yeah yeah what do you so what do you think that is why'd you want did you have any sort of like like i'm gonna do it differently i'm going to have a kid and aggressively change the way i am programmed uh that was probably part of it that was um i did have a very real so there are two parts of this one is the uh not actually having a kid or any of the responsibilities but but fantasizing and daydreaming about how that might be nice yeah and uh having an understanding that that my life would change and uh some in some ways for the better in some ways for worse but Also, I think a lot of it was a, I was looking for an outside force to change my behavior. I was.

So the kid is sort of like a beer replacement. Well, I mean, you know you yeah like i i i was not uh i wasn't very um responsible or healthy or right right uh you know there were there was several years in the uh early aughts in in the east village where i just i and look i was enjoying myself but i think on on in on in a deeper sense i was not enjoying myself and i was there was probably a little bit of shame and i remember when people were like i because because we you know whatever um you know time we spent together was it was real and you know and i love you and and we had a uh a deep connection but over the years we didn't spend that much time together but i remember it during that It was real, and I love you, and we had a deep connection.

But over the years, we didn't spend that much time together. But I remember during that time, there were people concerned about you. I remember there was people like, he's running around with the strokes with a fishing tackle box of pills. All right. Well, I don't know if that's really uh completely accurate but i but the idea sure that i was i was very um uh yeah i was very irresponsible and uh doing all kinds of things i shouldn't do and um again i was enjoying myself but i think on some on some level i was you know needing to understanding that i needed to stop doing that did you ever did you get scared for your life um no there were certain times where um part part of the problem is i'm oddly resilient for somebody who's, you know, five foot nine and, uh, you know,

155 pounds. I can really absorb a lot of drugs and alcohol. Do you remember, did you, did your stomach okay? Remember when your stomach used to hurt all the time? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, uh, I mean, part of that is changing, you know, my lifestyle. Right. I mean, part of that is changing my lifestyle. And yeah, I mean, I'm definitely a healthier person than I was. So you wanted to have the kid because you wanted something outside of yourself to make you change your life. I think that's a subconscious thing. I think that was not necessarily.

And I probably would allow myself to realize that occasionally. But I think that was covered up by this other idea. Um, sometimes, uh, more, uh, sometimes I believe it more and sometimes it wouldn't, uh,

um, you know, that I, I'd be a really good dad and I had a, a shitty childhood, shitty dad situation. And I almost owe it to the world to raise a decent kid, you know,

whatever. A lot of bullshit, a lot of like white liberal garbage. Is your dad still alive? Yeah. As far as I know, I I'm, I'm pretty sure I would find out if he died because I have two cousins that I i don't that every five years or so uh they'll

they'll get in touch to say something and we don't uh one is i'm on good terms with one i'm not but uh i thought you were gonna say that i would feel a change in the force um i i mean he's he's i don't know how much longer he'll live i mean he's uh i think he's like he's got to be like 80 83 84 something like that i'm not exactly sure my dad's like 80 i guess my dad's 81 and i talked to him yesterday and i you know i was having some problems with him but he seems to be losing his mind a bit and uh yeah it's it's getting uh it's there's a sweetness to it now where he said yes last yesterday on the phone he said uh look i just get worried that someone's gonna want to hurt you and uh you've done very well with your life you live the life

you want and uh but i don't understand why you you're not on the cover of Time magazine. Oh, they giveth and taketh away, don't they? Really? It went from good for you, I'm proud of you, to like, but, you know, you're not. Yeah, you're not on the cover of Time. Yeah. Well, just lie to him.

Just tell him you got a Nobel or something like that. He said the weirdest thing yesterday. He's like, I don't understand why there's not more Jews doing things. I'm like, what? Like there was a time, I think, culturally where I think it was we were talking about the virus and he had Jonas Salk in his mind specifically. And he's like, why aren't there more Jews at the forefront of everything? I'm like, I think there's plenty of Jews working behind the scenes. Send him Seth Rogen's IMDb page.

You know? Busy for a little bit. I should tell him. And with the caveat that he has not been on the cover of Time either. Right. But you think your dad, hold on a minute. Oh, my God. Breaking news. Keith Ranieri.

Yeah, yeah. Life in prison. Good. Good. Good. That is the most boring documentary I've ever seen in my life, The Vow. Oh, my God. Well, it's like a lot of those documentaries,

specifically the kind of new, you know, 10-part series, where you're like, this only had to be seven episodes. Yeah, but what kind of fucking person would listen to that guy tell them to do anything? I mean, like, he can barely get through a piano song. He says he's a genius. He looks like a little hippie turd he plays volleyball the best my favorite thing in the whole the whole thing is it's towards it's like one of the earlier episodes where he describes himself as um he says you know and i'm um i'm paraphrasing this, but it's pretty close. You know, I'm one of the world's best problem solvers.

I'm actually considered the third best problem solver in the world. Like there's a ranking of something as vague as problem solving. And somehow he is ranked third in the world. Society has deemed him. Cambridge University. Because he thought that would be more believable. But don't you just look at that guy? Wouldn't he be like one of the guys where like if we were all.

Scientology. It's all the same. I get it. But look at that guy, though. If you and I back in the day were going to go play softball with some fellas, he would be the guy be like, yeah, just let come you know like he's not there's no charisma there's no leadership it's like he's like the annoying guy that hangs around how is that absolutely yeah he was the annoying guy at the periphery of your group of friends right at a bar right when you're starting to talk about something that's uh starting to get deep right and he chimes in and you're like uh

wait wait wait back up back wait that doesn't make any sense like all everything he said when he's talking to people my reaction you know and and granted i'm sitting in my living room with the you know with hindsight being but i would never be in that situation to begin with exactly yeah um but everything he says and people are nodding along to it you're like well that doesn't make any sense and you and you know me and i know you and you right you me our friends 90 of them would stop the conversation and go wait wait wait that doesn't make any sense explain that no no no what you just said oh aren't you glad we're not that fucking lost or that fucking craving of of that type of sense but i imagine of course but like getting back to you to your old man and to your like so so you have this sort of my brother had the same

thing with the kids he's like i'm gonna do it differently but it seems to me that like everything changed like like and i know this because i have friends who have kids and I'm now I've gotten to this weird age where I want to hear more about their kids than them. And, you know, I get very attached to their kids. I'm not really particularly sorry that I don't have children, but I do. I do imagine that whatever happened. So did it was it a discussion with you two or did she just be was she just like i'm pregnant uh so uh and i feel like i can speak to this because she wrote about it in her in her sec in her second last book uh yeah fucking throw her under the bus dude go ahead i'm not throwing

her under the bus she talked about this and she She, she, you know, she asked me if she, if, you know, cause, so we did get pregnant and, uh, this would have been in, um, 2012, I want to say 13, maybe 12 or 13. an abortion and i did not want that and i was really bummed and it was very if you read uh um you know if you read her book of essays it'll it it's all in there but um because you were like because like well how well how old were you you're already what 45 50. dude i was i would have been yeah late 40s that would would have been, what am I, 56? You're 56 now? 48, yeah. So I would have been, is that right? No.

No. 49? I don't know. How old's the kid? The other side of three and a half. So it would be four. No, so you're like in your 50s. Yeah, no.

No, well, no, this is, I'm talking about the first one where she had an abortion it would have been i'm just i'm not good at the math here no she didn't abort our current child no i know yeah you shouldn't do that yeah i didn't know we were talking i i don't know i didn't know we were telling an abortion story i thought this was the fight that produced the first child this was a different fight well it wasn't a fight she got pregnant discussion yeah she got pregnant uh when we weren't really trying for a baby, but we were OK with the idea, I guess. And you weren't married yet. We were married. Oh, OK. We were married. Oh, interesting. Right. And we had probably just gotten married. And so that was an issue. and um you know we i supported her uh ultimately it's like you know it's her body it's her decision i'm not going to force her that'd be i can't do that i wouldn't do that um and it wasn't without a lot of discussion and i understood why i understood a reason but i just wasn't happy with

it um and and so that happened and that was a thing that we had in our lives, uh, um, that was now permanently and forever moving forward, going to be a part of our history and, uh, relationship. And then we did, uh, a couple of years later, we, yes, we're going to have a baby. Well, let me ask you something, though. In that, just because of the nature of who we are politically and who we are as comics and everything else,

now, after that decision, would she want to have the abortion and you were against it because you wanted to have the child? I imagine the discussion of that hangs over you, but you don't, you don't think you, you know, you don't think about that child necessarily. Do you?

Only in an abstract sense. Right. Because I did when she was pregnant and I did, and I especially thought about it when we were upstate because I just had this, when I go in the woods, I go for a walk with my dog or just go, just walk in the woods.

Oh, yeah. And I would, you know, imagine having like a five-year-old, holding a five-year-old's hand and pointing things out and all that kind of romantic father imagery. holding a five-year-old's hand and pointing things out and, and, uh, uh, all, all that kind of romantic father imagery and, uh, especially upstate. Um, and so, I mean, I did in that sense. Uh, and I was also, uh, you know, going back to what we were talking about earlier, it was this,

like, I'm ready to do this. I'm ready to do this i'm ready um uh in a in a self-centered way i'm me i'm ready to do this and she wasn't and you know we came to that understanding uh but that's a lot what a lot of it was about it's what 99 of it was about was i'm ready i want this right wasn't right significantly younger you know sure um uh so that was part of it and uh and then uh we got pregnant she was ready so and now we were happy to do that and now you got one yeah and she's awesome three and a half three and a half yeah so you were 53 or so 52 when did you turn 56 uh april oh okay yeah you're like i don't know i just turned 57 in september we're close i'm 56 and a half okay but i i i

really want to uh use this uh your podcast as a platform to try to encourage older people to start saying and a half i think i'd like to see people on the floor of Congress going, now listen here, I'm 68 and a half years old. I am 57 and two months, I think almost. So I can't imagine it, but it must be like, but there's so many things in your life that you know you had resolved on some level you know you got money saved you got a good marriage and now you know you're at this age because that makes me nervous you know because people are always like you can have kids whenever you're you're a dude but you know you got you want to be part of it and i think you got in just under the wire i think i think you're right and uh um and i really am concerned about if

we did have another one like uh my energy level i've always had a pretty good you know uh reserve of energy and and uh i'm pretty healthy and athletic but um uh like the idea of having another kid running around and having to run down the street while they're on a scooter. And I mean, I literally, especially in Brooklyn, like I'm running like stop. Well, you know, there's hauling ass constantly. And people are, and because you're Dave cross, there's always someone across the street laughing. Yeah. And I'll stop.

I'll let her go into traffic just for a bit and i'll sign some autographs she's good she has to learn she has to learn a quick cameo yeah um i yeah the idea of like doing that again in three years from now three and a half years like forget it well do you think well yeah of course but do you think like this, this idea of like how much learning that you didn't, you weren't as social as you thought you were, that you, you would rather not be hanging around with people as much. Do you think that, you know, the connection or whatever, however, the kid opened your heart, that kind of made you realize your priorities and got you more sort of in touch with yourself? Yeah, for sure.

And I, you know, all the cliches are true. They're so trite and they're trite for a reason and they're wonderful, but the cliches are all true. And now I'm aware of my language. I'm aware of my attitude, the energy I give off. I'm aware of... So what, you don't say fuck, but do you still say cunt or no? Yeah, yeah.

I say cunt in place of fuck. So I'll go, ah, cunt. Good for you. Yeah, yeah. And she goes, you know, what is that? What is cunt? And I keep saying, what? Yeah. And I cunt hear you. What's that? I can't cunt hear you. It's really fun.

Yeah. We have a lot of fun that sounds fun um but just morality i'm i think about morality in a in a i'm just more conscious of it like what do you mean well what uh the lessons that i'm teaching all right good and bad yeah what is right in behavior and how i act and um uh that. And I try not to get to show my frustration with something as readily as I normally would. Don't scare her with the weird outbursts of anger. Like, God damn it. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. And your crankiness has subsided a bit? I hope so. And I do hope a bit? I hope so. And I do hope so. I do hope so. I don't know if it has. And the last seven months have been brutal. The fact that one great thing about Amber and I's relationship was, you know, we were both in the business. So we both understood when, hey, somebody's got to go away for two weeks or 10 days or whatever it is.

And we check in and we travel with each other a lot. But sometimes you just can't. And it's a relationship saver, you know, to have that built in. Oh, I get to be by myself. And same with her. She doesn't have to listen to me. And I'm not the easiest guy to, to live with. And, um, So are you about to tell us that, that she's locked in a room or

I blocked her in a room. She's in the basement. Uh, but I'm only telling you that. Cause I want you to know that I have a basement. That's pretty cool. Right. In Brooklyn. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, no, she's in Toronto actually right now now she's shooting something too yeah yeah god everyone's going back that's why i was with that's why i was with the kid in atlanta i had to bring her down to atlanta with me and i was with her because uh amber had to go they have a very very very strict she's in canada a very strict quarantine regiment uh and they will track you and they will you know fine you heavily and kick you out so you know they're not fucking around because they know how

bad it is here. Is it a movie or a TV show? A TV show FX. Oh yeah? Yeah it's I guess they're recasting Glow and reshooting it. Wait a minute I'm supposed to and I'm sorry to hear about that

man I truly am that was uh you're so so fucking wonderful in that oh thanks buddy really really impressive I just I can't yeah I mean there I mean it's just one of those things you know there's nothing you have no power in that thing you know what I mean I I get it I mean the cast is so big how are you gonna how you gonna work around that and when is it going to be okay to shoot like that there's just i don't i really do think it was about that i don't think you know there was just no way to do that safely and no no way to see when that could happen well it's it's again i was uh nervous about you know going to back going back to work and uh um there are ways to do it you know yeah um if you really lock it down perhaps you have to bubble you know yeah much like uh nba and right and they did

that successfully i i don't know how you get around that um especially for something like your show where you've got all that yeah i. I don't know. Close contact and everything. I got a choreography. I just like, to me, it's like so much about doing what we do and I'm not a big, I don't know how to have fun generally, but, but just that the idea of having the exchange of ideas and being able to

socialize on set and all that stuff, like all that stuff being removed and you just kind of render it down to like, all right, all right, ready? Masks off. We're doing it. Yeah. I cut masks on. It's just like to me sounds terrible. Yeah, you're right. You're you're you're right. And but I mean, work is work. I get it. But I, you know, I just I save some money. So I'm not panicking about that but uh but it just doesn't sound fun and and there's also this idea it's like are we gonna put our lives on the line to create entertainment product isn't that part of the fucking problem but uh i don't know i don't know i i'm with you on all of that yeah and uh um as much as i am anything else i'm also a writer and and i there have been so many ideas i i've thought like oh this would be a cool idea to explore and to try to write and to develop for stand-up maybe uh not for stand-up for like tv for a series okay okay um and then you know i think about it like

in practical terms like how would i shoot that? This isn't a good idea. This would take, I couldn't do that. And then, and I try to, um, uh, you know,

in telescope, everything down to its, uh, minimal core. Do I, do I need to shoot this in New York? Can this be shot with just four people in a room? You know,

like can we green screen all of this? Can we, can we cut just four people in a room? You know, like. Can we green screen all of this? Can we cut and paste people in? It changes your approach or at least changes my approach to how I, because I'm always with the stuff that I develop, it's usually about story. I want this kind of story to be told. And it just is not conducive to to working under covid conditions. Yeah, I mean, I lately like I'm I'm just trying to look, you know, I outside of the loss that I experienced and outside of the we're all in this sort of like horrendous grief zone around the world, you know, and the covid and everything else.

But like I it's made me reassess fucking everything you know like it's it's very weird to see show business in its raw form like this that these people that have these shows these nightly shows who are under contract have to do this work it's it's the great leveler it's like everybody's doing their goddamn you know network television shows from their couches and and on some level it's okay but it does strip everything bare and you start to realize like we really are song and dance people and without the song and dance we're just people sitting on couches it's okay but it's kind of like i mean you that's that's you uh kind of you know ended up uh i don't want to say stumbled into it, but you ended up in the greatest COVID gig you could possibly have.

It's great. WTF. Not complaining. And we make a living off it. But now I've gotten to just work stand-up material. Because the weird thing is, Dave, and I don't know about you, but I'll admit it to you, I don't fucking miss stand-up at all. And I don't know why. Because but I'll admit it to you, I don't fucking miss stand-up at all. And I don't know why. Because I've done it my entire life.

I'm surprised to hear you say that. I'm very surprised. Well, I mean, it's like one of those things where I think I miss working through stuff. Do you know what I mean? But you get into the habit. For me, I'm going to go do sets at least three or four times a week, no matter what. So I've never not done sets. But even if I didn't have anything, I'll go. I'll make myself do it. But there was something about just the time and the space and the loss and the

COVID and everything else where it kind of forced me to reckon with myself and see where I'm at. And I'm pretty comfortable. I I could, I feel like I could, I'm okay doing nothing. Did you, did you prior to all this, did you have that kind of, um, you know, innate need to do standup that, that, that standups talk about that? Like, I don't know, man, I just got to get up there. I did, I did, but not, it wasn't to entertain people. It was a personal thing. And like, because I dropped that last special right at the beginning of lockdown, like, I did. I did. But not it wasn't to entertain people. It was a personal thing. And like because I dropped that last special right at the beginning of lockdown, like I don't know that I'm going to get much better than that special. Like that special is good. Right. So and now like but here's what I was going to say is that something's happening because I've started doing these live Instagrams every morning and I'll do like I'll do like over an hour sometimes to like you know anywhere from 500 to 1200 1300 people but thousands of people come watch it but it's re-engaging that part of me that thinks on my feet because you do the same thing I got to talk through my shit so yeah but I

don't I that's this whole performing in a vacuum thing I do not I don't I'm not comfortable with it I don't uh it's it makes me self-conscious uh no i don't like it i don't like i'm not waiting for laughs but i do like thinking out loud and and and sure and okay but but i want to go back to something you said before about how people are you know they they're like i've got to get up on stage and i just want to entertain people and i always found that to be such bullshit. I don't have that. And I don't think most people do. I think there are, I know plenty of people say it.

A lot of people, it's like this altruistic thing that that's what's driving them to the stage. And it's bullshit. It's a selfish, not that this is, the end result is bad. It's still a good thing. The reason I do it is basically to you guys will sit and listen to me because this is how i know i exist and this is how i think enjoy enjoy yeah i think that's how it is for most people that thing and so many people do like i just i

mean i've got this need i've got to get up there and entertain people i gotta make them laugh like fuck you you're so full of shit i need you to see me and hear what i'm saying yeah yeah but do you miss it um i do. I do a lot. And I did towards, I think in part because it was combined with not working at all. I finished this one project I was developing. I got to where I was kind of contractually obligated to finish. Finished that. It didn't seem like it had all this kind of excitement behind it, moved on. And then I, I had nothing,

I was not doing anything and I was trying to force myself to write and I really miss standup. And I w I was in the kind of what I, what I like to call the end of, I had like three phases to when I'm developing stuff, at least the last two specials and tours I did where I just developed stuff out of nothing. I watched one. That's when I reached out to you, right?

Because it made me all nostalgic. It was the one with the big colonic closer. Which one was that? Was that the last one, the colonic? No, I think that was the one before colonic no i think that was that was the that was that was the one before that was uh make america great again maybe is that the one in in that was i in a theater or a rock club i think it was a theater yeah um yeah that was make america great again that um i'm pretty sure it's just so funny because i had this moment where that's when i reached out to you

because i'm watching and it's like because we go back to such a developmental time for both of us, there was something so familiar that I hadn't seen in a long time, but had that ran pretty deep in me, you know, like just, just watching you do stand up and, and sort of, you know, move through your stuff. I'm like, I remember this. And, uh, and you do it. There was moments in there where I'm like, he's doing this just the first time right now. No, that was all true.

That was every word of that was already said. Well, pretty much. Yeah. I mean, I always riff within stuff. But that story, it was one of those it was one of the handful of things i've done where i can as i'm doing it i can remember it even though it was a long time ago with amber when we were uh basically first dating um where i just remember i can remember it visually right now i remember the fucking place on santa monica boulevard who doesn't remember their first

colonic i mean that's like it's and to this day only colonic um me too tom agnes sent me to his guy in new york it was this little african dude and he had all these pictures when you want when you're waiting in the lobby and he had these pictures of tribal uh peoples with these long things that could come out of their asses because of what they eat like they like literally these shit oh the tapeworms and stuff no they were like i said to the guy i said what is that a shit snake and he laughed and laughed and he thought that was the greatest what thing to call it a shit snake oh he was patronizing you there's no way he hadn't heard the term shitsnake ever before

come on really i don't know i got a genuine laugh it seemed like a real laugh there was no reason for him to fake it i was i'd already i already had my appointment but um but you know it was just like very disturbing no they weren't it wasn't a parasite thing it was literally i think these people were eating tree bark or something and and it was just uh he was that was his way of saying like you don't want this to happen i'm like dude that's not gonna fucking happen and were these like big glossy beautiful kind of motivational poster type prints no they were like those they were almost like um from a like a a medical journal of some kind you know where they'd show the picture of the people

like in the tribe and then they'd show these horrendous things. Am I understanding this correctly that these were on his wall? Yes, yes, yes. As like, welcome. Make yourself comfortable. I want to go there. It's here in New York? Yeah.

Ask Agne. Do you still talk to Agne by any chance? Where is he? Oh gosh, I haven't talked to him in a long time. Doesn't he live on the moon or in Thailand or someplace? moon thailand i don't know where i don't know where i don't know where people go i don't know are you in touch with anybody i mean not not really it's weird right yeah i've become very antisocial i know but you got the kid that's great but anyways what were what were you doing where were we going oh oh about uh about improvising and missing stand-up so i was i was developing some more material and

i was i kind of do it in three phases where i just sort of uh take a tape recorder and just go to uh you know i'll go to some place in brooklyn and i talk for an hour and and then I tape it and what works, I keep and what, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And, uh, um, as opposed to like going to clubs and doing 12 minute sets and stuff like that. I mean, I just do an hour and I tell people it's going to suck for a little bit. That's what I do too. I just get a space and just go. Yeah. Do an hour, two hours, figure it out. And then, you know, phase two is like, okay, I think I know i'm getting close and now i can sort of try i'm not going to dick around anymore here's what i'm going to work on right work on that that's an

hour and 15 you always things always inflate and then phase three being like the much uh phase three for me is like the week before where it's sort of like for me, it's like a month where I'm trying to sequence things. I always end up like, you know, I've got the callbacks. I know what's going on, but it's still like it's still an hour and 20 or it's an hour and 30. And I know like I want to get this down to 75. And that last week where you break the outline, it's literally like you see what you want to do and you're like, this doesn't fit. No, no, no. And then there you outline. It's literally like you see what you want to do and you're like, this doesn't fit. No, no, no. And then there you go. And not being so self-indulgent and precious about things that I love that, you know, people aren't digging in. Look, if you give it, you know, four, five, six, seven tries and you're not getting it, then just ditch it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And move on. Well, no, it was just great. It was great seeing you and it

made me feel like, do you remember the name of that? You know that there are a couple of things I wanted to bring up. You remember Inner Beauty Hot Sauce? The Caribbean hot sauce? It was almost like it had a mango and hot habanero. Wait, that's vaguely familiar. Yeah, I feel like it was from our past. Inner Beauty.

Inner Beauty. Wait, what is that from? I don't know. I think we ate it. I think we had a bottle of it. But they didn't make it for a long time but they're making it again that's all i just want to tell you that and the other thing is it was a really hot habanero hot sauce and i feel like the stuff at the yucatan the yucca hut on uh franklin no no this stuff it's similar inner beauty was about you could it. And I feel like somehow or another, the hot sauce, difficult food era

was somehow tied to Bob Wilson's apartment for me always. Yeah, sure. But here's the question I want to ask. What was the name of that sub place that we used to get those subs on Mass Ave? Remember they had like the- Oh, the- Five, did it have a number in it?

Like the five, something five? There was the meat bomb. Right, right. it like the five something five there was the meat bomb right b-o-m-b the meat bomb and it was literally every it was everything they had right and cheese right it was around the corner from the middle east right around the corner from the bear it was right around the corner from bobs we could walk there from bobs on mass ads what was it called five star or something. Oh, that sounds right. Yeah.

Something like that. It was on a Mass Ave. It was either by T.T. the Bears or Middle East. I mean, that's all. That area's changed dramatically. But we had that meat sandwich. We'd get like four or five meats on there. Yeah, and cheese and onions. It was crazy.

It was like sausage, meat cheese steak i can't i think everything they had they just dumped it on the you know and it was when you're poor and drunk and uh and then i just remember you the next day holding your stomach bent over stop always always holding your stomach and bent over but you're better now. I'm a lot better, yeah. Okay, so tell me about all these hackneyed things about having a kid, though. Because you seem like, do you tear up? Do you get overwhelmed with feeling? What happens?

Well, the highs are so high and the lows just suck. We've been very lucky. She's, she's, uh, you know, healthy and, uh, um, hasn't exhibited at this point, any kind of real mental or learning deficiencies. And, um, and she's for the most part, a happy, fun kid, funny, uh, there there's a lot of time, uh time where Amber's not here, you know, and she's, she's out of town and she had a whole run for like six or seven months where she was doing all kinds of, you know, things either promoting her stuff or some writing that had come out or doing stuff for feminist causes or political people,

you know, politicians or whatever. And she'd, you know, be gone for four or five days or whatever. And it's just, it's the most exhausting thing. Like being with a kid, son up, son down, you know, when they're, it's mostly it's great, but can be really really just you're just wiped out by the end of the day wiped the fuck you don't have any help over there i do uh but like when i was in uh georgia yeah you know i was in georgia didn't but um uh nanny has her own schedule and her issues too and has her own life and you know sometimes can't just can't be here um and

the nerve amber gets back which will be in early november i mean it's just like uh um but that that's it's been like that since she was a kid really um i i've been with her pretty much outside of 12 days where I went to Europe on the last tour and made a, made a talk about a lesson learned a tremendous mistake in that I want, I was so nervous and depressed and upset that I was going to go away from her. I'd never been away from her for more than like a day and a half at that point, maybe two days tops um and and i make i designed my trip to

to europe um and i i didn't do half the shows that i did in the um on the last tour oh come on yeah uh i didn't do half of those right uh i only did 12 days um and i went and i flew in red eye to manchester did a show that night as fucking out of it and jet lag crazy and then my last show was in amsterdam and went had like a 6 a.m pickup to go to the airport to fly from amsterdam to manchester back to New York. Yeah. Just so I could cut out whatever it is, a cumulative 14 hours off of the itinerary so I could not be away from her for so long. And I walked in and she didn't give a fuck, man.

She just, I was like, and I got my suitcase. Hey, and my dog's all excited. And like, Marla, she's got her back to me. She's looking at the TV on the couch. Marla, daddy, hello, hello. And me she's looking at the tv on the couch Marla daddy hello hello and she just kind of turned around looked at me didn't say a word and went back to watching tv and so I will never ever make that mistake again wow and that's when you said to Amber what the fuck is her problem she Amber wasn't there oh um just a nanny so yeah uh but uh

yeah I had 12 days there and then i did this movie the dark divide aren't we supposed to talk about that i watched it i watched the whole movie i'm just i'm dude i think that the the sandwich place had the word high in it like high five high high something high five high five pizza high five pizza high five pizza yeah that's it high five pizza oh thank god oh good all right so the pizza had very it had really uh quality fidelity yeah but the sandwiches were where it was at it was a great sounding pizza yeah awesome but yeah i watched the movie man and uh i was very proud of you you seemed to like you know i thought like well this is a changing man he's accessing you know it was like you know it was like a deeper dive into a character i think than

you usually do oh for sure yeah and like it was moving and it was it was a painful uh story but also beautiful well thank you yeah it was uh it was it was you know cool to do It wasn't fun to do. No? To be outdoors in Washington? Dude, it was like the lowest budget, most grueling. I mean, a lot of those scrapes and bruises were all real. Did you get to spend time with the real guy? Yeah, yeah.

Robert Pyle. Awesome guy. He's a butterfly guy and and you know it's a it's it's not um it takes from a couple of his books right uh uh and there are some liberties taken with the story um but you know it's 90 of it is all you know so basically the idea is that like his wife he he nursed until she died of cancer and he'd always want he yeah but he was really kind of uh as as sweet and nice and kind and uh a voicular as he is in real life he's very uh you know he's shy and and uh and um he And he isn't very proactive.

And his wife is extremely extroverted. He's introverted. She's extroverted. And she was really the one who was holding, in a way, holding his life together. And he wouldn't have done anything without her pushing him to do it. And so that's like her dying thing to him is applying for him for the Guggenheim grant. To go find these, to document these species that have never been documented? Yeah, to go into this place that's one of the last wild bits of the lower 48 states. And it's one of the last stretches that is very, you know, still very wild.

Is it still? Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, you can hike it. It's just there's no amenities. There's no. Right. You know, is that how you guys had to shoot it, basically?

Yeah. there's no amenities there's no right you know is that how you guys had to shoot it basically yeah with the skeleton crew a lot of where we were there was no um you know there's no cell service there's no electricity uh and you couldn't access a lot of the parts anything around those like um the lava tubes yeah you know a lot of that stuff uh uh and people got hurt you know there were some you know albeit relatively minor but there were a number of that stuff. And people got hurt. You know, there were some, you know, albeit relatively minor, but there were a number of people who had to get, you know, some help. But you're out there. Also, there was a mountain lion that was like stalking. It was fucking nuts. And there was no like changing trailer.

There was no craft services. You're out there. You had to hike everything in their equipment and everything and then shoot. And if it if you see it's raining, that's because it rained. And those those that weather changes like that. I mean, it just changed. Oh, my God. How long was this shoot?

I think it was I want to say five. I would say four weeks. and the first week was in portland so it was three weeks out in the um wow man it's like apocalypse now but not all of it not i mean the stuff when you see like the um when it's kind of nice out and there's like the the uh the we're on top of the ridge like that that wasn't, uh, that wasn't scary or weird, but a lot of the stuff in the interior was really hairy and not, not fun. I mean, it was, and there's, again, like there's no trailers, nowhere to get.

So this was, was this director, like he was like, just like, this was his vision. This was, he was willing to commit this insanity to it. Yeah. He, he grew up in Portland and went to a lot of these places as a kid. And he, uh, I can't remember how he came to know Robert Pyle's work, but he did. And then he kind of devoured all of his work. Now he's a, he's a, an accomplished writer. He wasn't at the time, uh, that the movie takes place in 95, I think,

but he's by training a butterfly guy. Yeah. He's a lepidopterist. That's his thing. And, uh, and now he's, he's a lot more than that,

but that's what he was when, when this journey goes on this journey and this thing happened to him. And, um, yeah, so this, this guy got to know him. He bought,

he got the rights to it. And I think it's, it's, it was about 10 years that he, you know, was trying to get this thing made. But the impetus of it was that, you know, his wife had wanted him to do this and he didn't. Well, he kept saying he was going to do it and I'm going to do it. I'll do it. I'm going to. Yeah, I definitely next when it warms up and then it would warm up. Well, I'm going to wait a little bit till this because I'm not really ready right now, but I will be.

and then it would warm up. Well, I'm going to wait a little bit till this because I'm not really ready right now, but I will be. And he was always putting it off. And then she dies and she had applied for the grant knowing she was dying. She only had a matter of weeks left

and he gets accepted. And she's already dead. So he's like, now he's got to do it. And through that process, I mean, like, how did you approach it differently? Because it feels to me, it felt to me like this was something you know that you couldn't you know you couldn't just uh goof through you couldn't just make a caricature and do it right so like it has to be

there has to be some relationship between you coming to terms with yourself that enabled you to do this emotionally with this guy? Well, to bring it all back around to where one of the things we were first starting to talk about, it's really about embracing that what I came to see myself as is antisocial and not, it spoke to that part of me. And, and I, I could never do what this guy did. I mean, not in a million years. And I know everybody says, well, you could, if you had to, I wouldn't, I'd be dead. I'd be dead. I would quicken the death. I would, I would, uh, I mean, I just couldn't do,

I couldn't survive it. So it was 128 miles. I think he just went out by himself with very little, went out by himself. He was in way over his head. I didn't know what the fuck he was doing. Right. And I,

I just, it was, you know, like embracing the, uh, uh, letting all those other facades fall away and go, all right, this is who I am. I've got to do this.

Right. I'm going to do it because he has a couple there's a couple moments where he could have bailed. Right. He didn't. And he does it for her. And he knows he knows deep down that he will change for the better. He knows it's hard and he knows that she was the better person in that sense um and you know he's got her kind of memory and spirit there with him guiding

him uh and you know just and and we do it in the movie and it's and it was you know really happened to to robert the real guy but he thought he thought he was in there for like i can't remember what it was he thought he was in there for like, I can't remember what it was. He thought he was in there for like 28 days and he was in there for almost 40. He had just completely lost track of everything. I can't remember the exact numbers, but we had a scene that we eventually took out where he puts on his, he's leaving and he sees people on the dashboards of cars, like the name, a phone number to get in touch with a relative, when he's expected back or that person, he or she is expected back. And he goes, oh, and he puts his,

he writes it on like a piece of paper and he puts it on his dashboard. And he's off by weeks. Yeah, yeah. I thought that was in the movie when he comes back to the car and realizes how long he's been gone. Oh, maybe it was. I don't know. I've never seen it, so you'll have to tell me. Oh, yeah, I think so. Well, you don't want to see it?

No, I've seen it 150 times. Oh, it's not, so it's not in there. Just doing cuts and ADR and stuff. I don't remember. But, yeah, it was, I don't think, like, I think you keep saying you're antisocial. I think you're just more comfortable with yourself. Oh, wow. I think when you go running around and you got it, it's like that thing you were saying, you're looking for something outside of yourself, whatever it is, you know, to kind of, you

know, make yourself feel better. And I think you just probably just, just, you know, kind of more comfortable with yourself. If you're lucky, that happens when we get older, you know, a lot of things don't matter. I never thought about it that way, but that's interesting, and I will give that some thought. Maybe that's interesting. Okay.

Do whatever you have to do with it. I'm going to take off. Actually, I do kind of have to run. No, no, it's good. It's fine. But the movie was good, and it's great to see you. And I thought you worked well with Deborah Messing, and I thought the journey was good, and the Bigfoot thing was good.

Am I spoiling it? No. I mean, that's, I think they did a really good job of handling that. Not ridiculous? Yeah, it's not ridiculous. I i mean that was a big i i every step of the way i was like you guys can't show big but you can't do this you can't do that i mean it has to be just is it in the book as and yeah the the the thing at the very end i don't

want to give it away but you know the literally the very end right happened but not quite in that way but that did happen yeah uh and uh he did come upon a print okay um yeah and and i know this guy is he's a scientist you know it was a really difficult um and people you know when they're interviewing me about the movie they're like do you believe in Bigfoot? And I do not. I don't believe in it. But I do believe in the ability for mankind to invent things. But I thought what he, he says something in his book. He writes about how there's every reason to think that a Bigfoot could exist and has the wherewithal to not make himself known, especially in that

part of the country. I guess that becomes queer to you when you're out in it, huh? Yeah. Yeah. And it's, and have you been to like central Oregon? I haven't spent time there. No. It's one of the most fucked up.

I grew up in the South. Yeah. And it's one of the most fucked up. I mean, it south yeah and it's one of the most fucked up I mean it's weird in a way I have not experienced well you mean like hill people wise kind of not that they're scary but just they're

very it's almost twins twins peak-ish in that like it's a culture that is unto them and they're very suspicious people it's a it's a culture that is unto them and they're very suspicious people um it's it's what i i haven't felt that kind of vibe since i've been in like the deep south like in appalachia right right appalachia yeah there's there's a hill people all over the place but i i'm telling you man i maybe just because i'm used to the the south and right when you go especially in the

upstate new york's got him too dude not like this man not like this all right okay all right maine maybe maybe maine i haven't been to like super rural maine and and i think it's kind of a similar you know just a suspicion and uh and not a friend not the friendliest vibe. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can imagine a lot of QAnon stuff. Sure, sure. The kind of like, hi, how you doing? Just passing through?

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I guess so. Yeah, I am now. Yeah. Yeah, it's a trip, man. All right. Well, I enjoyed watching the movie

and I liked the movie and you did a good job. Well, trip, man. All right. Well, I enjoyed watching the movie, and I liked the movie, and you did a good job. Well, thanks, man. And it's truly great to see you and your success and how you've been able to branch out as well and do that stuff. Thanks, man. As well, which is an opportunity we haven't often gotten to do. No, sir. Yeah, and I'm excited. Yeah, it's great talking to you.

Great seeing you. I love you, man. And you as I'm excited. Yeah, it's great talking to you. Great seeing you. I love you, man. And you as well, man. Take care. All right. Bye. David Cross. He felt that that ending was abrupt.

I guess it was, but I do that sometimes, don't I? We were done. He felt done. Kind of felt like it was done. You can go to darkd dark divide film.com to get the virtual cinema links for the movie the dark divide that dave and i just talked about good luck everybody good luck i'll be back on the instagram lives probably uh thursday and the the t-shirts the marin too close shirts are selling like hotcakes. It's a good shirt.

You can go to PodSwag.com or go to WTFPod.com. Click the merch button. I think it's one of the better shirts we've done. I don't even know why. It's got a vibe. It's got a nice teal color to it. Whatever. Guitar?

How about a little guitar? All right. Okay, here we go. Good luck. Oh, my God. how about a little guitar alright okay here we go good luck oh my god so BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES Boomer lives. Monkey lives. La Fonda lives. Vote. Vote.

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