WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1173 - Frank Langella

Episode Date: November 9, 2020

Mel Brooks once told Frank Langella, “Nobody would believe you're from Bayonne. You look like a prince without a country.” But whether he's playing Dracula or Richard Nixon or King Lear, Frank is still a Jersey Boy at heart. Marc asks Frank about that upbringing across the Hudson and how being an introverted, sensitive middle child led him to a life of transforming into larger than life characters. They also talk about an amazing gift Frank was given by Ron Howard, the line of dialogue from the movie Dave that is his favorite in his entire career, and his performance in The Trial of the Chicago 7. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what the fuckocrats what the fuck publicans what the fuckalists? What's up? What is up? Oh, my God. What a fucking relief. Am I right? God damn it. I can stop eating candy.

What a goddamn relief. The weight has been lifted, man. Women, children, he, she, theys. It's been lifted. And it's amazing how quickly you felt it lift it was almost immediate i mean people i don't know that people really fully understand the power the symbolic power of the the head of state that you know that that determines on some level how grounded people feel in the country and we have just been untethered and beaten and brain fucked and fucked with and hurt and and assaulted every fucking day by an abusive, narcissistic fuck.

A mentally ill fuck. Was the goddamn abusive stepdad of this country. And our mother, America, made a bad choice. And then we couldn't get him out of the fucking house. And it was almost looking like we could never get him out of the fucking house, and it was almost looking like we could never get him out of the house before he killed our fucking mother and made us all live in fear. We just barely fucking avoided real fascism, people. Real fascism was here, and it got pushed back for the time being.

And we have new institutional management coming. God willing, no other weirdness. Who the fuck knows, though, with this fucking pig? I don't know how all these fucking American fascists are handling the cognitive dissonance of what is real and what they believe and what they believe to happen. I know that those beliefs are being fueled and fired up and they're trying to contain them through propaganda and persistence on a leadership level, Trump family, some Republicans, but I don't know. I imagine with these type of people, brain fucked, brainwashed people or just people that believe that fascism is the way to go, that with this cognitive dissonance, they're just going to double down on their beliefs. And we're obviously going to have to deal with this for a while.

But I don't want to get hung up on that. I want to be too much of a buzzkill. I don't know what the future holds. I do know that today is Frank Langella Day here on the podcast. I talked to Frank Langella Day here on the podcast. I talked to Frank Langella. You know Frank Langella from stuff like Dracula, Frost Nixon, the movie Dave. A ton of Broadway work. He's in the new Netflix movie, The Trial of the Chicago 7.

He was in that thing with Jim Carrey for a while. Great actor. Daunting for me a little bit. Seems very intense, but we had a nice chat. But I'm just thrilled about new management. All these dummies that were like, you know, Biden, how's he going to run the country? What's he going to do?

Sleepy Joe. It's like he's going to put a fucking staff in place that are goddamn professionals. He's going to try to rebuild the the institutions that have been destroyed on purpose by the pig and his minions he's going to bring in some goddamn professionals he's going to believe scientists he's going to try to at least navigate our reputation on the global front to see if we can get things working again. Look, it's not going to be perfect.

Politicians are politicians. But I can definitely get behind this head of state and what his character implies for the general sort of spiritual well-being of the fucking country. Did you listen to those speeches country did you listen to those speeches did you listen to those speeches i mean it's not just relief or trust or hope necessarily it's just really the knowledge of two people elected who are competent at being in charge and who care about the well-being of people generally speaking they have empathy in their fucking hearts they're normal human beings just watching those speeches granted political speeches written for uplift written for for for

a sense of change and hope like a speech is written by a leader of a country what a fucking relief being delivered by real people not just either going what the fuck is happening what's wrong with this guy did you see the families come up on that podium after those speeches and see real people engage with their family with love and joy and excitement of fireworks not just sitting there sucking the attention sucking the stage not giving a fuck about anybody but their own appearance and babbling are you fucking kidding me thank fucking god if you believe in that stuff just to see a guy who loves his family on that stage who is now going to lead the country look all the american fascists are going to be what they're going to be yeah i spent a lot of

time frightened terrified we all did the boogaloo boys are going to fucking start a civil war it's just like i I don't know. There's plenty of fucking nasty motherfuckers with guns, militias, Jew haters, black haters, Mexican haters, Asian haters, full on fucking racist on all fucking levels. Real dumb shits now who have been emboldened to embrace a lack of tolerance, to embrace the marginalization of the other, to think that is something to celebrate they're all there they're all in place we don't know what the fuck they're gonna do but we are going to stand up to them and that's the other thing

all the fucking stooges and ghouls are gonna be gone these fucking pure fucking fascist propagandist motherfuckers inhuman it's fucking sad that 70 something million of people like that that's not going away but goddamn get just give us the goddamn reprieve settle it down get things under control put some professionals in place listen to the goddamn doctors appeal to people like a fucking person thank fucking god oh my god what a fucking relief my experience with real narcissists the ones with power tend to continue to blame everybody but themselves call everything bullshit and tend to continue to blame everybody but themselves, call everything bullshit, and continue to try to maintain power. Narcissists with no power, generally, when confronted with the cognitive dissonance at hand, they crumble and just say, fuck all of you all, and they crawl off. I'd prefer that, but I don't know if that's going

to happen. And in terms of reaching out or, you know, having compassion for people in your family or people you know or friends of yours that, you know, were a part of this momentum and might still be, you know, until the cognitive dissonance resolves itself, I don't know that you owe them compassion. Maybe that's wrong. Am I being being wrong or just maybe you can find that line that fine line between compassion and gloating gloating is not attractive i'm pulling you know i don't want to do that but it's very hard and i have a few friends that are republicans who are still my friends and remain my friends throughout this only because i know they don't know better then there's no convincing of them of anything uh but uh you know i don't know how much that's worked out for you

and also the fear of the militias and fear of the nazis and fear of the white supremacists they're not that organized i don't know if they're that prepared to mobilize en masse i think a lot of them are like wait we're gonna go over there to the state we're gonna you want me to suit up and go to the state house like full suited with all the guns that's gonna take like two hours and you want to leave at seven to go over the state house full armor helmet all that it's gonna take like two hours for me to just get ready then we got to go over there we might get arrested i don't want to go to jail for this shit can't we just shoot something around here like we usually do let's just go out to the to the you know to the field and shoot at the

the targets at the jew pictures can we just go shoot the jew pictures over there no i don't come on let's just shoot something around here i don't want to go i don't want to go to jail come on i got new jew pictures so now we just have to hang on we still have to hang on thanksgiving is coming up and despite dr fauci's, my mother is still insisting that I come down there, that I fly to Florida, which is a goddamn COVID pit. Get there. Bring my shit suit up. Go to several different markets that are crowded with fucking people to get the shit I need to bake, make dinner for 20. She's like, can you come?

I'm like, no, it's not safe. And to her credit, she goes, I know. I just thought. Yeah. Okay. But what if what if I said can you come? I'm like, no, it's not safe. And to her credit, she goes, I know. I just thought, yeah, okay. But what if I said, I'll come? You'd be like, oh, I'm so happy. Cut to COVID coughs, sweats, maybe death because my mom wanted me to come to Thanksgiving. Don't, look, you might be looking a gift horse in the mouth here, man. Some of you, like, you're upset you can't spend time with your family on Thanksgiving. Don't you look, this is, you might be looking at gift horse in the mouth here, man. Some of you like you're upset. You can't spend time with your family on Thanksgiving. Are you

though? Are you, do you know how much you complain about Thanksgiving? You know what a pain in the ass Thanksgiving is. The only good thing about going to Thanksgiving this time would be to just sort of see how the Trumpies and your family were reacting but sadly they'd probably be like you know it was rigged you know it was stolen four million five million popular votes stolen what are you fucking stupid cognitive dissonance that's what's going to drive the fascism in this country i guess it drives all fascism racist myths and conspiracies cognitive dissonance mind fury from a broken childhood of the many but uh i i do think that i am uh happy i do think i i have there's relief and uh i i don't want to say hope necessarily it's going to be a long long slog, but I'm relieved and I'm not afraid as much of the future. In the back of my head, though, I'm like, I got about four years, maybe.

At least, at the very least, we can kick this goddamn plague. So we can go to other places in the country as opposed to being seen as plague-infected pig people incapable of behaving like fucking grown-ups. But I got my mask on. It's not you. It's all the other pig people. But I'm not with them. They're your country.

You come from a country of infected pig people incapable of acting like grown-ups. Yeah, but I didn't do it. Sorry. Go die with the pig people. But I want to come to your country. Look, I'm here. I'm happy to be American.

I'm proud of America. I'm proud of the fucking, the people that chose reason, science, empathy, decent leadership. It's a fucking mess. I was on The Tonight Show. You can go watch that. I did The Tonight Show from my backyard.

I believe on, what day was it? Friday. Go to thetonightshow.com or whatever it is. Go look it up. Mark Maron Tonight Show. It was fun. It was fun to be in show business again, even though I was sitting in my backyard.

It was fun to see Jimmy. He's always a good audience for me. And yeah, I was sitting in my backyard. It was fun to see Jimmy. He's always a good audience for me. And yeah, I was happy with that spot. So listen, Frank Langella is in this new film, The Trial of the Chicago 7, which is now streaming on Netflix. And this was recorded before the election. Take that into mind. We have a few in the can, but this is me talking to the amazing Franklin. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category.

And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Death is in our air.

This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun. A new original series streaming February 27th

exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. how are you sir i'm excellent thank you i'm getting too used to this technology i don't like it right well i prefer one-on-one talking with somebody face to face but this is the modern age me too i it's It's the way I always did it. I would have people in the room with me and you look and you can feel and you can connect properly. Yeah. But are you, you feel you're getting too used to this, that it is becoming somewhat comfortable? In my generation, you're resistant to it, But if you don't learn how to do it, you can't do this

in the age of COVID. You can't connect with your kids. You can't look at the grandchild and all because everybody's always sending you something technically. But I don't feel it. I do it, but I don't. It's better to pick up a little kid. Of course. Of course. Yeah. But yeah, but now you just have to settle for people holding them up to the computer. Look, here's a face. Yeah. Well, how is it affecting you? Are you by yourself there?

Where are you, in New York? I'm in upstate New York. Oh. Yeah. Are you getting depressed or are you all right? Oh, no, I'm not depressed at all i live in a country town where everybody talks to you the post office is there you have a wonderful conversation with them and you go to the market it's very civilized where i live and people are still polite still

willing to stop and talk and help each other. That's a good feeling. And are they being safe up there? Do you feel like as COVID? Yes, we're one of the safer areas. But you still find time to get out and see the folks, people? No, I stay. I'm isolated.

Oh, really? You don't go to town? I don't go to town. I think I've been once in five months. Oh, my God. And you know, the strangest thing is that I don't go to town? I don't go to town. I think I've been once in five months. Oh, my God. And you know the strangest thing is that I don't miss it. I lived there since 1960, and it isn't as if I haven't had a grand time in New York. I don't miss it. I'm not sentimental about it at all.

I'm hoping one day before I'm decrepit, I will do another play and walk around the area, which I love. But if that's not meant to be, I'll do something else. At least it's true of me. There is a great acceptance that begins to come over you when you start your 80s that um not just not to stress the little things and not to get to actually do what you did in a way as a child go with the flow not try to control it and not try to be angry that it's not going now the traffic is this or that you just it's a great blessing i think one of the few of old age right I see I'm in my I just turned 57 but I do realize that one of the

reliefs of aging is that you really don't give a shit as much as you used to about things you used to give a shit about yeah it's true and you actually look back and you think like you know why was I so upset about that it's not there anymore well And you actually look back and you think like, you know, why was I so upset about that?

It's not there anymore. Well, one of the things is, I think, try not to look back too much. Although at this point in life, you do review a lot of what you were like in your 20s, your 30s and you have to endure seeing yourself with hair and uh center and in better shape and and what your life was like that very day when you shot that scene right i saw a dozen or more photographs of me recently taken in berlin where i was shooting a film. Which film? And all I could see when I looked at the picture was, oh, I can't, God, I don't remember, 1980, so it may come to me. Okay. But all I could look at was, oh, my wife's pregnant. Oh, no, it was Hungary.

It wasn't Berlin. Was it Dracula? No, it was a terrible movie called The Sphinx. Okay, yeah. So all you could think was what? I remember the circumstances of my life at that point. I remember coming down out of the hotel suite. My wife was waiting upstairs.

I have very little memory of the actual film right just well that's probably p it sounds like it's probably ptsd that you blocked out maybe yeah terrible movie but well that's what's interesting about watching this chicago seven movie is that uh i mean you were a young man and very alive and engaged with theater and culture at that time when that happened right yeah very and it was new y New York. I mean, was the circle of people you were in, in theater in New York, sort of, you know, active culturally and politically? Well, if they were, I was not aware of it. I freely confess that at 30, I had only two things on my mind you can guess one of

them but the other was work right and that's all i cared about i wasn't a good citizen i wasn't following the political scene i'm much more aware now because we're much more in danger and uh i'm frightened in ways that uh i never dreamed I'd be frightened in a democracy. Yeah, for sure. But at 30, I remember Kent State and I remember all my uncles being in the Korean War. Yeah. And others later on Vietnam. But I was working all the time and not as involved as I am now.

It all took place in New York for you, right? You came over from Jersey. I didn't come over from Jersey until I graduated college in Syracuse. But you're a Jersey guy. Yeah, I'm a Jersey guy, and there's a lot of us. I used to talk like that. I used to say, give me me your call and we'll have coffee i mean that's exactly how i spoke what part of jersey bayonne i was born in bayonne

mel brooks used mel brooks was my first director in the movie and he said nobody would believe you're from bayonne you look like a prince without a country. He was right. And you come from an Italian family, full on? All Italian, yeah. Southern Italian. Yeah. Naples and Calabria. And were your parents first generation people?

Second. Uh-huh. Second. So you had grandparents that spoke Italian? Yes, to a degree. But I was raised in a household where everybody spoke English at the top of their lungs. There was no medium ground of any kind. You know, you woke up in the morning to get out of bed. Like a morning. None of that happened. You didn't like a morning.

None of that happened. Well, that's kind of interesting. So you probably sought out performing just to sort of get some control over the noise. Well, I sought out performing because I wasn't a comfortable young boy. I was always ill at ease. I couldn't talk to girls. I didn't like going to any house. I didn't know I would get, my hands would start to get sweaty. And I wasn't lost in sports the way my brother was. And I had this strange ache inside me that there was something I was meant to do,

but I didn't know what it was. Well, I mean, it would be hard to feel comfortable when everyone's yelling all the time, right? Yeah. And when you're a middle kid. Oh, you were the middle? Yeah, all boys? No, sister, brother. Oh, but you were the one that kind of got lost between the two poles? Absolutely. All of these cliches about being a

middle child or the youngest over a long period of life you come to realize when you meet other friends and talk that people are automatically very much like what the cliche of a middle child is or a younger daughter yeah or an older older sister a younger man. And why wouldn't they be? That's all you know at that point in your life. Right. And there are certain patterns that obviously have foundation in reality, behaviorally. I mean, I guess it's just for a reason that those facts are true. But what did your father do? What kind of world was he in? Those facts are true. But what did your father do?

What kind of world was he in? My father was a businessman, and he ran a company called the Bayonne Barrel and Drum Company, which reconditioned 55-gallon drums and smaller, repainted them, went into the bungs, and took out all the grid inside. And I started working for him when I was 15 or 16. Reconditioning drums? No, I was assigned to, there were very large factories. And on Monday, I was told to wash the windows all the way across one wall. By the time we got to Friday, they were dirty again, and I had to start all over.

And it was a very interesting time. You knew that wasn't going to be your life. He paid me $50 a week and my mother insisted I give her 40. What? Now that you're working, was her remark. So I lived on $10 a week. But what was the $40 for her for? Rent. Wow. I don't know.

It was just her feeling that I was now working and I had to pay my way. I took it for granted. Yeah. Now, was she a domineering person? Yes. Yeah. Very, was she a domineering person? Yes. Very much so. Very much so. Domineering is a nice word. I think she was mentally unbalanced. I had more cracks to the face and more nails to the, she just was a very emotional Italian woman of which there are many, many, many. That's why I never married an Italian.

You're being very diplomatic. Yeah, I am. And my grandmother was, my grandmother was the same. Whenever I would run upstairs to my grandmother, because my mother was overwhelming. My grandmother was crack. What's the matter with you? Both of them?

You get hit downstairs? You go upstairs, you get hit? Yeah. And, you know, I think there's something to be said, really, truly. I don't look back on it as poor me. There's something to be said with the kind of discipline that generation had even though there were there was very little sensitivity discipline makes you feel you're cared about even when it's not necessarily kind and today i watch young parents today they say oh whatever you want go wherever you want to

they go into a supermarket just go down the aisle and pick what you want right and a kid a kid wants everything so he needs a parent to guide him he needs and i don't see that happening in a lot of the younger ones now oh that's i knew i had to be home at a certain time i knew i couldn't touch something in another one's house. I knew I could only have one thing in the supermarket. So it was, there were boundaries. I get it. And I, yeah, and I liked them. Well, I think that that makes sense to me. You know, also kids, you know, when they're, when they can't make a decision, sometimes want guidance. So they're not overwhelmed all the time. But I mean, it seems to me that once it becomes abusive, if you're craving that kind of discipline,

that might not make your adulthood that terrific. Well, I may have misled you. I wasn't abused. I was brought up in an Italian family. There were nine, ten uncles and aunts. Right. And there was a lot of picking up and throwing around and love, but there was no fooling around. There wasn't any whatever you want.

Let me, what's in your heart? Tell me. There just wasn't any of that. But so you, yeah, I guess, you know, I wasn't saying that you were saying abusive, but, you know, nails and pops to the head upstairs and downstairs. I mean, I understand discipline and I understand, you know, that kind of love and that kind of passion. But and I understand how that could be be that discipline is in and of itself good. So you at least are grounded in something. But but do you find that you don't you don't do poor me. But do you find that your your choices in life are sort of directly relative to wanting to get to get away from that?

I mean, how how do they respond to you wanting to act? When did you decide that, you know, because clearly you said you were uncomfortable and socially awkward and middle child and stuff. But a lot of that had to have to do with, you know, being overly disciplined on some level. Somewhat, but I decided at about seven and it saved my life because, as I said earlier, I was so ill-equipped for the world, for the real world. Too sensitive. Way too, way too sensitive. My brother was a jock and didn't take

very much seriously my sister was very beautiful and out being a girl and i always felt maybe i was adopted maybe aliens left me here because i didn't feel connected and the moment i walked in a school play i said oh this oh, this is where I belong. And funnily enough, the day I graduated college, I listened to all of my friends in panic. That night at the party, they were all saying, what am I going to do? I don't know who's going to do my laundry. I don't have a profession. Should I be a doctor? My father wants me to be a lawyer.

And I never had that problem by that time. What I knew was I wanted to be an actor. It is without being pretentious, a calling. And I knew I had a job the next day after graduation, I drove to Boston area and was rehearsing a play the next morning. So that was one of the pitfalls, tragedies, whatever you want to call them, of life I didn't have. I had everything else, but I knew my profession. Right. But to pursue a calling, especially one that does not offer security or guarantees of any kind that is creative, you know, that's a courageous thing. And in that, you know, I think a lot of people go through life heartbroken because they felt they had a calling, but they didn't have the courage to pursue it. And it's not courageous

at the time. It's desperate. Right. In a way. You've got no other choices in your head. Yeah. You're desperate to find your place in the sun, so to speak. And you're desperate to have some form of identity. Exactly. And all of those, they all work well later in life. It's always been my experience that the darlings of school, the best looking guy or the head of the basketball

team or the prettiest girl they have a lot of trouble later in life and if you're striving always did you ever read a book by ortega called revolt of the masses no it's worth it. In the book, he says, the man with the clear head is not the man the ocean swimming against the current, never getting to shore, because that act of always swimming, always trying, always looking to do or be something is healthy. And when you get into the ship of success, when most people get into that boat, when they reach the boat, they pull the gangplank in after them. They don't want anybody else in there. That's right. Right.

So I've always felt very, I always identified with that. Not woe is me, but keep swimming, Frank. Just keep swimming. So you did theater all throughout your high school and that type of stuff. And that gave you sort of a little cachet a little identity you got laughs you got moved people and you know yeah i have photographs of me at 16 playing reverend chauchable and importance of being earnest but you know that painted gray yeah in your hair and eyebrows that you make and yeah you put the

little dot in your eye because everybody told you then that it made your eyes bigger. Right. Well, that's a fun play. I think I did that play once. Oh, yeah. It's a great play. Well, so when you went to college, you studied theater as an undergrad, too? Yeah.

I went to Syracuse University where a number of people, Jerry Stiller went there. Actually, Aaron Sorkin went there, which I didn't know until I read it recently. And there was a professor there, very renowned, named Sawyer Falk, F-A-L-K. I still have my notebooks. I have my notebooks from that class. And one of the things he said was, act in spite of your neurosis, not because of it. It was a great, great lesson to me about the skill and the craft of acting. What does that mean? Explain that to me.

Well, it means that you don't, what's the word I want, a Yiddish word called muzzle. You don't roll around in your own neuroses. Okay, right. You use it. You create, you make an art out of the craft or the skill that you have. You work hard in spite of the neurosis. You don't work hard because of it. Right, right. And don't let that neurosis inform everything so you don't

actually get the skill set to do the job. I can give you one very good example, which is I played King Lear a number of years ago at BAM. Pretty recently, right? Yeah, about 2014. Yeah. And one of the actresses in the play at the end of the scene came off stage and said, oh, I didn't feel comfortable tonight. I just, I don't know what it was. I didn't feel comfortable. And I said, it's not your job to feel comfortable. It's your job to make the audience feel comfortable. And I might as well have been talking in Swahili. She wasn't able to get the concept

because young actors are often taught to just be yourself. You know, well, be yourself at home alone. You go onto the stage and in front of a camera for them, the people watching you, you don't go on for yourself. You don't go on to vent you know your own personal dramas you use them right unless unless the role calls for that but right yes and then you mold it right

it's called making art but but so so what did you when you were training with Sawyer Falk, who seemed like he had a practical approach to the craft, did you have any sort of resentment towards a more method-driven type of thing? I was a lucky young man. the mentor and the teacher young who taught me that it's a skill and it's a craft and you must bring real emotion to it. And he taught me to shape things. He taught me to make decisions about how to play a moment or a scene, never to lose the honesty of my emotional life, but never to let my emotional life overrule what it was I was doing. So a love of Shaw and Moliere and Shakespeare and Arthur Miller and then Tennessee Williams

came to me and an understanding that for each of those plays, there was a different way to approach them based on the writer's intent. So you did not do much more training after Sawyer's class? No, I didn't. I was in an acting class for six months and I couldn't bear it for that very reason. I was sick of actresses blowing their noses and crying and saying, this reminds me of, and guys coming on saying, all that. I just thought, well, wait a minute. What's the syntax of this line? What does it mean? How can I get a laugh here? I don't mean that you just do it technically, but you do, you combine them. I was in that moment that you just did that very brief impression of the guy

working out his problems in an acting class. I was like, I'd like to see a little more of that. What do you mean? Yeah, I'd like to see you do that character a little more. The guy. I've rarely played that kind of guy, but I'm really a Bayonne boy. And as I get older, I probably should return to that. But those are interesting choices. a Bayonne boy. And as I get older, I probably should return to that. But that was, but that's, those are interesting choices. I mean, were you conscious about, um, kind of, uh, removing the

new Jersey from your tone? Oh, very. I, um So I when I was 16 years old, I saw Laurence Olivier in the film of Richard III. I still have it downstairs. I bought the 33 and a third album. That's 70 years

ago. And I went up into the attic and locked the door and I listened over and over and over again to John Gielgud saying oh I passed a miserable night and I slowly began to imitate him and lose my Jersey accent but you don't think at that time, well, it's interesting because like that, a Jersey accent isn't in and of itself neurotic. It's not, it's not. No. And, you know, but certainly the childhood you had and what you came from and how it built you, I would guess could be termed, you know, somewhat neurotic.

But did you feel, I'm sorry, am I off'm sorry am i no it's all right i'm listening to you i'm just disagreeing with you i'm disagreeing in silence and well i know okay well maybe that's the wrong word but but but you well sensitivity i guess what i'm what what what i'm trying to say is that by making a choice to kind of cleanse yourself of that accent you you were sort of taking on a different character for yourself you know you were making a choice to kind of cleanse yourself of that accent, you were sort of taking on a different character for yourself. You know, you were making a decision about who you were going to be as you. Yeah. Yes. I was, I was, I knew somehow inside myself that I could have a better life than what was

happening to me emotionally and acting became the vehicle for that. And I also knew when I got to Syracuse that I'd found the right man to help me understand what I told you, act inside of neuroses. I also knew later on in life that you have to know this is Shakespeare and I'm going to have to live up to certain things. This is Tennessee Williams. This will call another part of me out. And that's what's wonderful about acting. And very, very few people my age hang on to that enthusiasm. They get jaded by it it's the worst profession for

managing to hold on to your self-esteem oh really and i'm not a franchise actor i don't i don't have one game to play right and i just keep doing that over and over again i love to get lost and and transform if i can and when you do something like you did even in this most recent movie, which is based on a real guy, you know, like how do you find the sort of wiring of that guy, the drive shaft? What are you going with? Well, I read everything I can read about him. I get all of my intellectual stuff out of the way. Then I throw it all away and I come out. And as I've said in other,

only one other interview, I leap empty handed into the void, which is an expression I was once given. That means that instead of spending hours a day lying down thinking I must pure myself for the night or standing in the wings, working yourself up and shooting your load in the wings, you leap onto the stage. You've done all the basics. You've learned the lines. You know what they mean. And now you have to mean them when you say them.

And that means jump. It's like, in a way, jumping on a horse and galloping. You've had your lessons. You've been told when to pull in the reins, when to let her go. And then you leap and you can gallop for miles and miles in great happiness because you've done all the preliminary work. Wow. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, because I talked to quite a few actors and the idea of doing all that work and trusting that you've put it in, it's in you. Yeah. And then just letting go of it. Yes, it also gives you something to hang on to in the bad times. And actors, I have have great love of actors.

It's a very difficult life. I'm not saying it's more difficult than anybody else's. It is. But it beats at you. Your self-esteem is challenged every day. Your dignity is challenged. You have to hold on to a belief. And one of the things, and I think we talked about this, about how kids are raised today. One of the things you have to hold on to is your skill, is your craft, is knowing you

can shape a line, knowing you can get an audience to laugh, and even more importantly, knowing you can shape a line, knowing you can get an audience to laugh, and even more importantly, knowing you can make them cry. That gets you through the bad time when you're waiting, as I always say to people. It's probably the most difficult thing in the world, is the waiting that all actors... And then, you know, like, once you have the opportunities to choose the material that's going to be satisfying.

Yeah. I think that phrase leap empty handed into the void was given to me by a friend. He framed it and I've taken it to every dressing room I've ever had. And as the years have gone on, I don't get to my entrance backstage until a second before I before the curtain goes up. I used to, you know, I have lunch, dinner. I used to sit in the wings and get myself into it. And as I said before, it does nothing but tighten you and freeze you. But if you've done everything and you feel, oh, how am I going to be tonight? I do masterclasses and I say to the kids, complicate your life if you want to be a great actor. Complicate your life. Don't lie in bed all day working yourself up to the night. Fight with your girlfriend. Have sex. Tell your mother

you're mad. Go shopping for your indigent grandmother. Deal with life for real. And then when you get to the theater, you have to clear your head and say, now I'm going to leap. But if you're all day lying around thinking I'm an artist, you know, I must. It's it doesn't it doesn't work. And then you you love what you're doing, too. So day of show. It's good to fight with your spouse, maybe your parents.

Fuck. And then get ready for work. Yeah, but you don't have to fight. No, no. You're just saying live your life. Live your life and be a person. Go shopping. Take out your garbage. Right. Read your life and be a person. Go shopping. Take out your garbage.

Right. Read a book. Don't freak out all day. Yeah, that is anything that keeps you engaged in the act of living so that when you come to the theater that night, you're full of that and you bring it onto the stage. And what was the first role you did where you're like, I'm it's happening.

I'm an, I'm a professional act. I've arrived. In 1963. Yeah. I came to New York in 1960, but in 1963, I was lucky to get the leading role in a play called the immoralist.

By Andre G. in a play called The Immoralist by André Gide. And it was a colossal success because it was about a man discovering he was homosexual. And in 1963, that was big time. And it was a giant success and considered very racy. It wasn't at all. But it ran for about a year and a half or two years. And I remember on opening night of that play, all the critics would come to the theater on opening night, and then like a great movie run to their typewriters in order to meet the deadline to get it on. Nowadays, they come for a week before. And I sort of think the excitement of knowing it's that night. Anyway, I had a girlfriend who subsequently became a wife.

And after the curtain went down, we had a little glass of wine backstage. And then she and I went to the New York Times building and stood waiting for my future to come down. And there was a box there. And we saw the guy bringing the Times to put them in the box. I put the dime in and the paper was wet. It was still wet. And I raced through and found my picture and a review. Yeah.

That was and I thought, I'm an actor. I'm an actor in New York City. You know, it began there. It's a good review. Great review. Yes, it was. It said Frank Langella, not that I remember. Frank Langella is an actor of uncommon promise.

That was my very first review. And there had been better and much worse. Yeah. But for you, it seems that it was really about theater. I mean, were you thinking in terms of film at all at the beginning? No. I had no notion that I would ever appear in front of a camera, that I would only be, to me, the Broadway area and Marquise and being a Broadway star was everything

I wanted, everything. And I had a condition of cold nystagmus, which makes your eyes quiver a little bit when you're being intense and um i thought it meant i could never i couldn't be taken into the army because of it because you can't focus quickly in order to shoot a gun and on stage you know my grandmother used to say every knock is a boost so when i was told i had this and i could never work in film or television i was devastated but my goal wasn't to be there anyway but every knock is a boost means that when i would be on stage, because my eyes quivered, they'd pick up the light. So you'd see, and I've got many reviews saying there's something in his eyes. Well, it was a condition, but I didn't tell anybody till now. And it ended up being a boost.

It did. Every knock is a boost. Eventually, I did go on camera. As you get older, the condition lessens. And the first role was with Mel, with Mel Brooks? The first movie, 1969. Did some TV before that? One or two.

I did a half-hour show called Trials of'brien starring peter falk and elaine stritch and one or two other things yeah what was it like working with peter falk at that time he's a character well peter uh disappeared at lunchtime usually with one of the young leading ladies so you never got it you never got a chance to talk to him. And he would come out of his dressing room looking relaxed. Yeah. I never forgot that. I thought, oh, wow, that's a great perk.

But working with Mel Brooks when he was that young, because he's so lit up all the time. That must have been something. Because he's so lit up all the time. That must have been something, because he's still lit up. He still is. I don't know how long ago I saw him, but Mel doesn't change. I tell this story about Mel

because it's my favorite. The opening scene of the movie is me in a giant square. The 12 chairs, right? Yeah, 12 chairs with about 300 Yugoslavians. Yeah. Moving towards the camera, moving away. Yeah.

They didn't understand a word Mel said. Yeah. And Mel said it at the top of his lungs and yelled at them on top of a ladder, God damn fucking Yugos, go around and do this. They didn't know so you'd see in the rushes you'd see a hundred people running up to the camera looking up and then running back as he told them to they had no idea how to mingle they had no one they're poor people they were just poor people in a village and mel loves to make people laugh and he had a hundred people just staring at him with open eyes like he'd make a joke and they wouldn't laugh uh it was a wonderful experience i i in my first movie

yeah and i i had a great time but i imagine like over time that the that the the true thrill is still theater right i mean yeah there's a lot there's a lot of process in making movies, and some things can take forever. Well, yes and no. For me, it's changed. I've done about 75 plays, and I've done now about a similar amount in movies. And now, as much as I love, my last two plays were The Father,

A Man with Dementia, and King Lear. And as much as I love, I still love being on stage. I now adore being in front of the camera. I adore trying to bring the moment to the simplest and most honest I could make it. And there is a particular thrill in that, which helps you endure the long waits and getting there at five o'clock. On this movie, A Trial of Chicago 7, I had to get there at five to do all the prosthetics, which were very subtle. You never noticed them, but they were there.

But there wasn't much waiting time at all aaron was very efficient but there's a lot of doing it on camera doing it off camera doing a master and if you maintain the idea that an audience is never going to know whether you sat for three hours before that shot or whether you had a headache that day. The moment you hear action, you leap empty-handed into the void. You give the lens the most truthful feeling you can get related to what you're playing. And that is a joy to me now as much as going on stage.

As a young actor, I was very theatrical and I had to learn to calm down in front of a camera. Right. I actually talked to, I interviewed Jeff Daniels and Aaron Sorkin when they were doing the play To Kill a Mockingbird. I did separate interviews with them.

And it was interesting because Jeff Daniels said to me about film acting that you really have to, and I'm just saying this in terms of having done a little bit of acting myself on TV and whatnot, that because I wasn't an actor my whole life, I was a comic, that the sort of't an actor my whole life of this comic, that the sort of waiting around was starting to, you know, I was like, this is ridiculous.

But then if you start to frame it like you're moving towards this moment and that's your job is this moment, right? And you and Jeff was very clear about like, you have to learn how to work your face. Like there was something about film acting. I never thought about it that way. It's almost all face. Yes, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't say it the same way. I would say you have to learn how to achieve what you need to in order to move the audience

and not worry about working your face or trying to make faces um if you watch television now actors are making faces like crazy and they're looking off to the side and they're looking down and they're you know they're just doing a million things and most of the time it's because they're forced to do mediocre, mediocrity. So they try to fill it with everything they need to. My feeling is be simple, be honest, be direct. Right. And if your craft is in place, you've already done the work.

It can carry you through and also you can get when you go home that night glorious you feel you've put something into the lens that the audience will react to there was a very famous actor named alan ladd you may be too young to remember him but he was in a west he was a western star many star and he wasn't thought of as a great actor he was a great film presence yeah and the story is that he went in he went yeah a movie star he went into a bar at the end of a day and all the guys at the bar. Hey, Alan, how are you? Movie actor. Did you have a good day? And he said, yeah, I managed one great look. Right. And sometimes

all you can, but if you do it, I have a chill up the back of my neck. If you do it, if you are able to manage it, you've had a successful day. And forgive me, I don't like the word. You've had a successful day as an artist. Let me just say as an actor. Okay. Because you've achieved something.

Well, I think it's beautiful. I think what you're saying is, you know, it's encouraging to me, you know, as somebody who does some of this work now, to appreciate that convergence on that moment. Because when you do a take, you know, sometimes it's 30 seconds. And you may get to do it 10 times, but you're still... I got 35. Ron Howard in Frost Nixon did a minimum of 35 takes. Now, did that drive you nuts? Yeah, but I by then knew the character so well from a year on the stage aaron is gorgeous to work with if you get it the first take he wants to move on

he usually will do a second for safety and if you ask may i try it one more time he will let you, but I never do. I honestly feel unless I felt really lost, move on. It's fine with me. You trust the director. I trusted him. Not every director. That's interesting. The reality is that a couple of your biggest roles, Dracula and Nixon Nixon were stage roles. So you were dug in, right? You knew him. Very. I had to change both those men dramatically. I really had to work hard.

Here's a Ron Howard story, if you would like, about Frost Nixon. I played Frost Nixon and Dracula a year each, 30 years apart. And I felt as if I had gotten Nixon into my soul. And the first day we shot that movie, I remember Kevin Bacon standing over in the wings. And it was to be Nixon's first entrance in the film where he looked at a cameraman and said, take out over there and you do this and do that. And and then he had to speak to America. And I did it.

Ron went, yeah, that's good. It's good. It's OK. Let's do it again. Writing notes on an envelope. And he came over to me and said, you come over here you do this and i did it four times and he he kept saying let's do it again and i didn't know why and he came over and he whispered to me he said i saw you do this play in new york city um it's why I wanted you to do the movie. And I have a stopwatch here. And you did that scene four times impeccably in four minutes and 32 seconds every time. This is not the live theater. You don't have to move on and keep a whole play going. Take your time. Break it open. Keep a whole play going. Take your time.

Break it open. Look at that person longer. I have a scissor. I can cut away. Well, he liberated me on the first day. That's great. He absolutely gave me a feeling of such joy. And I thought I was doing very well in the first takes. But I was living up to an obligation I had put on myself in the theater.

So when you have to make the audience hear you in the last stroke, it's very different when you have to make them feel something in a major close-up. I don't know why you just told me that story, and I find it very moving. Me too. story and it's i find it very moving me too i was uh i thanked ron ford at the end because actually nixon became a very different man in the movie than the play okay he became very very introverted in many ways and very quiet and very introspective and in pain a lot of pain interesting and that was all because of that note. Ron, now, I take a little bit of credit

because I was smart enough to hear it. Right. And also, I was smart enough to open the windows and let the Nixon of the theater world go away and make him the Nixon of just the camera. You changed the void. Yes, I did. And I loved every minute of shooting that movie.

It's a great movie. I really loved watching you. I always like watching you. It's interesting, the Dracula role. I remember when I was younger. I mean, what was that, like 1980 or something? I was still in... 1978.

Yeah, I was still in high school. But I remember that sort of put you on the map as this kind of like a sex symbol. You were like... It's funny, it took Dracula to do that. At 39. Well, I think almost anybody who plays Dracula becomes a sex symbol for a while, but in different ways. I played him as a romantic gothic hero, and

I played him not as a killer and not frightening at all, much to the dismay of the producers. They wanted me to do all, you know, fangs and blood. And Dracula is an extraordinary imaginative force with women yeah they love him because they can imagine being penetrated without being penetrated you know right that's here right it's not there right Right. And so, look, the character's been around a long time. I'm not the only actor who's had success with it. So I think that basic theme of the magic of that character

is really based on that. It is a romantic character. Very. Yeah. And very rarely played that way. Yeah, and I remember like there's there's like when when i knew we were going to talk and i was thinking about you and and my memories of you like they were like i remember there's a scene in that film lolita where you play quilty

that i like i cannot like get out of my mind. There was something so disturbingly devilish about how you approach that guy. The, the sort of like strange, uh, like in my mind, there was a, his dubious sense of morality, but there's a scene there where you're just like running down the hallway naked in kind of a frenzy that like i can't it's it's stuck in my head that that whole portrayal of that guy was so uh again sort of uh it was disturbing but you but human it's a very underrated film it should i think it should be revived uh adrian line directed yeah and it was at a time when the country was very up in arms about child abuse and uh people wouldn't go to

see it it was damned i think i think it could show now and talk about many takes adrian was 35 or 40 takes really and you got and and you're naked that's 40 takes. Really? And you're naked. That's difficult. Well, yes, you're naked and it's cold in the studio. But it was like, I remember it being, I should watch it again because I remember it being, you know, like it's a challenging book, so it's going to be a challenging movie. What are you going to do? You seem to have an ability to really be aware of comedy and also aware of, like, you have a full range that it seems you're very comfortable with. Do you like doing comedy in general?

I love it more than anything. I really do. I don't think I'm quite known for it, but I've done half of the movies and plays I've done have been comedic roles like Dave. Dave was great. One of my favorite comedies. That film was actually a pleasure. It's the first movie I did with Ivan Reitman. And then we worked together two more times in draft day in a movie with Arnold Schwarzenegger that i've lost the title of yeah but if you could

make if you could make ivan laugh off camera as if he's off camera that you know you've done something right in every film i've done and every play i've done from every matchable writer my favorite line that i've ever spoken is from dave it's after Kevin, as the president, leaves the room, and my assistant looks at me, and I'm in a rage. And he says to me, what are you going to do? And I say, I'm going to kill him. He says, you can't kill him. He's the president. And I said, no, he's not the president. He's an ordinary person. I can kill 100 ordinary people. Gary Ross wrote that line. It's so funny.

I can kill 100 ordinary people. But in terms of when you were talking about actors and roles that are difficult because they may not be satisfying, and roles that are difficult because they may not be satisfying. I mean, you seem to have, there are some films that you've done that you don't seem to like very much and that maybe weren't satisfying. How do you choose what to do? Well, it's a myth that you choose. You wait. Okay.

And something comes along. I hadn't made a film or done a play for a year before Aaron called. And if it's a bad movie and you know it, you still work as hard. I work as hard, if not harder, in bad movies to try to make it work, at least in my little department. But you know when you read it you don't always know no i wouldn't take it if i knew it was going to be a flop you don't you always go in with a big heart i made a movie for ridley scott uh about uh 19 set whatever 40 whatever the year of the conquest of america was um with gerard de pardue oh yeah yeah

sigourney weaver right wonderful cast uh about the discovery of america and every day we were shooting it we thought we're making a classic this is the lawrence of arabia of our time yeah and then two months after I finished it, I got a little comedy called Dave, which I thought, well, it's getting the kids through school. I'm doing my best. And Dave was an incredible success.

And that movie disappeared. You know, 1492 just disappeared. Even I fell asleep the first time I screamed it. Yeah, I guess that happens. I talked to Erwin Winkler about The Right Stuff, which is really, by all standards, a great movie, and it just didn't catch. No. Didn't catch. No, you never really know.

Yeah, and you don't know what it has to do with. It's interesting, you played another judge, didn't you? You played Warren Burger too, right? what was that not the ali movie right that was muhammad ali's last case i think it was called i'm not sure last fight maybe yeah you like playing judges i don't play this is the only the second one i've ever played and uh yes I loved doing that one too you know if you survive as long as I have yeah you have favorites and wonderful experiences you have terrible experiences they don't always combine which means you can have a very bad experience and make a great film. You can have a love fest and the film is terrible. There's simply no rhyme or reason to it. But do you ever, do you look at any of the work that you did? Like, you know, I understand what

you're saying. And sometimes you can have a great acting experience in a movie that's not successful or it doesn't cut well. But are there any instances where you think you can have a great acting experience in a movie that's not successful or it doesn't cut well, but are there any instances where you think you could have done something differently or done something better? Oh, everything. Every, every time I watched,

I watched the trial of Chicago seven, only two days ago. I try to make it a rule not to watch anything. I'm in for a year because I want to because I don't want to hate the editor. You know, why did you go away that moment? I did this. But the response to it has been phenomenal. And I thought I should honor Aaron by watching it sooner. And I did.

And even watching it, I thought, even with the lovely reception to me which i'm grateful for i went oh why did you do that you could have done this you could have done that which is why i don't watch them because i'm always you know i don't know how you feel about what you do but at this point in my life the process is far more rewarding than the result. Just the trying to find it and get it. And then you're always disappointed in the result, always. When you're younger, you say, use that take, because I look really handsome in that take. This came out well. At my age, I'm always looking now were you truthful were you honest have you been caught acting if you've been caught acting you're not doing it right

so uh and i was glad i saw it because i loved that cast of actors and i thought every one of them every one of them was absolutely marvelous. It seems like that the thing about from that Ortega book, Sitting on the Beach versus Swimming Against the Current, that you seem to be

generating a lot of that current through your life. I try to. It's hard on to, I am. It's hard on you. I am afraid of being complacent and I am afraid of, um, I never take a part because it's close to a golf course.

I never take a part and say, I know how to do that. It's one of my tricks. I, I take what's offered to me and try to make the best of it. And I respect this craft and this skill. Not hokum pokum, not sitting on a pedestal saying I'm an artist, which is very boring. But lucky me, I have skill. I have something I can mold and shape and do. And I'm coming to the end. We'll see.

Maybe I've got another decade of it. But as I get older, I love the silence and the intimacy of the camera and my trying to put something in that's going to move an audience. Well, you're great at it, and I appreciate you spending the time with me. It was great talking to you. Thank you. I enjoyed it. Good. You're a wonderful interviewer, and I'm sure we've been here for hours, but it didn't feel

that way. Oh, good. It just went like that. Oh, good. Well, I'm glad we spent some time together, and take care of yourself, and it was great meeting you. You too, Mark.

You're a lovely guy to talk to. Thank you, Frank. Take care, man. Bye. Bye. All right, that was Frank Langella before the election. The Trial of the Chicago 7

is now streaming on Netflix. Oh, God bless America. The relief. Now I'm going to play some celebratory music. Oh, my God. I had a pig devil sitting on my chest for four fucking years. guitar solo guitar solo Boomer lives. Monkey lives. Monkey lives. La Fonda lives.

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