WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1182 - Brad Williams

Episode Date: December 10, 2020

The first time Brad Williams got on a stand-up stage, he was just an audience member. Brought up on stage by a comedian who was telling little people jokes, Brad realized the power that comes with making people laugh on his own terms. Marc talks with Brad about what it's like doing comedy as a little person, how other little people have responded to his act, how he feels about language that's deemed inappropriate, and why he credits his dad for his ability to tell jokes. They also talk about Brad being a new father and the range of emotions he had about raising a little person. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing with cannabis legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category.

legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates!

Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuckers, what the fuck buddies, what the fuck nicks, what's happening? It's me, Mark Maron. This is my podcast, WTF. This is me, Mark Maron, after working. I was on set today. I'm sorry. How are you? Everything all right? I'm out in the world in this fucking COVID tsunami working like a fucking idiot because

I chose to do so i chose to believe that protocols were in place that will protect me on this set i chose to believe people who told me you'd probably be safer on a movie set than you would be going to trader joe's or Ralph's. I chose to do it. I did not know when I chose to do it that it would be the fucking escalating peak of the plague. But now I'm in it and I have to accept my choices and do the work.

I'm grateful to be working but terrified on another level but I've let that go because I made the choice and they do seem to have their shit together with the masks and the shields and the testing Godspeed

God willing I will not get this fucking bug I didn't start thinking about it again until the end of the day. I got up at five, had a drive an hour and 15 minutes out to the edge of the desert to this little shitty hotel, this rundown old dump of a hotel that is the set for the next week or so. I'm only shooting 11 days on the movie and uh for some reason it's not unfamiliar to the glow hotel was a shitty little hotel you're always wondering like do people live here and it's sad but that's where we're out out there that's where we're at. Out there. That's where we're at. Out there in the dust. On the edge of the world.

And I got to be honest with you, man. And it saddens me. But I think most people in this country live in borderline squalor. And it's fucking disturbing. And unfair and sad. But there we are out there making a movie. it's a human story about a woman with trouble and uh i've been working with um andrea riceborough who's sort of a savant a genius a great actress british person and andre royo who you know from this show and from The Wire, from Empire.

That guy's a live wire. Speaking of wires, he plays Bubs. But he's my buddy and kind of my partner in this movie. So I'm hanging around a lot with Bubs. With Andre. Great guy. I couldn't have asked to be hanging out with a better person in the downtime. The only problem is I got to maintain, I got to do a Texan accent, which I'm doing.

I'm just doing it. I don't give a fuck. I laid it in place. I did the work. I did the dialecting with the dialect coach. I got a little primer. I got a little page of things I got to think about when I do it. And I do it, and I try not to do it up in my nose

where it sounds like I'm doing an impression of somebody from Texas. But it's going well, and I'm glad I took the gig. It's scary, but it's nice to be around people. I know that it's dangerous and maybe not the smartest thing I ever did in my life but like I said, the protocols are in place. Safety is being focused on immensely. There's nobody on the set without a mask

and mostly without a shield ever except for actors when they're doing their scenes. I get tested every other day, it seems. And hopefully I won't get it. And I feel like I'm doing OK work. I didn't know what I had in me anymore. We've been in this quarantine situation for a long time. But I didn't know if I could still work with people or get into the zone and do the acting.

But as I said the other day, I'm on set and I'm like, I know what this is. I know how to do this. I'm familiar with this profession. I am a professional in this show business thing. And the director seems very happy. He seems to be getting what he wanted out of me. He ordered a Marc Maron. He's getting the Marc Maron. Did I mention today on the show here, Brad Williams is on the show. Brad is a comedian. He's a little person. He's a dwarf. I was told it's okay to say dwarf by Brad Williams. You may have seen his standup specials, Fun Size or Daddy's Issues. And he also appears in the Netflix stand-up series,

The Degenerates. And he was the topic or the subject or the launchpad of one of the funnier moments I've ever had on radio. Not me personally, but bore witness. One of the funnier moments that I've ever had on radio. Not me personally, but bore witness. One of the funnier moments that I've witnessed on radio with Anthony Cumia before he went completely sour when he was a funnier clown.

But I talked to Brad about that. Man, what a day. A lot of pages, a lot of scenes. It got to the point where I, the last thing we were shooting today i had to drive up and get out of a truck me and andre had to drive up and get out of a truck and i had one line the line was uh so did it go okay everything go okay man but everything gets rolled into motion we had a transpo move the truck we got in the truck all the gears were going everyone's on set doing the

thing we got a moving vehicle i fucking drive that thing up and i get out and i deliver my line to andrew who's playing leslie and i say everything go okay and then i stopped and like fuck no accent like and it was almost as if no one caught it. I'm like, we got no accent. That was me. It was just Mark. Can't have that. Back up the truck. I forgot to put on my accent face. But it's going well.

But it's weird what I get freaked out about. Like, you know, I did some, yeah, I got to sign. When I was on GLOW, I signed a nudity waiver. Is that what you say? That I had to sign a... When I was on GLOW, I signed a nudity waiver. Is that what you say? I had to do that. Because if those women were going to show anything, then I had to be equal, and I had to show whatever they asked me to show. Fortunately, as some of you may know,

it was my ass. And there was one... It was not really a sex scene, but partial nudity. But I showed my ass. It it's there i walked around set with a dick sock on and that was okay i was okay to deal with that but i'm doing this movie and there's one scene where i got to eat a tv dinner and i was like oh my god i don't know if i can fucking do that is there any way around me eating a tv dinner? Because we got to do a bunch of takes

and I got to eat Salisbury steak from a TV dinner? I was more freaked out about that than showing my ass on camera. Even my cock, maybe. I don't know. That's a little, that would have been a little hard. No, I mean, it probably wouldn't have. Damn it.

I didn't mean to do that. It didn't, I'm not even going to play it out. But I was really I had to really kind of come to grips with eating a Salisbury steak from a fucking TV dinner. Fortunately, they made one special for Andrea, who has meat issues. So they made a gluten free veggie one. So I was able to take some of that as opposed to the real Salisbury steak. But I did more eating on camera this time

than I ever have. And I try to avoid it at all costs. Because if you eat on camera in a scene, then every time you do a take, you got to remember where the fuck you ate. Like there's not enough going on in the world. I'm happy to be working. I really am. It's really exciting exciting and it's so fucking nice it's amazing how long it's been to be around that many other

people it doesn't feel that different just everyone's wearing masks so do you guys have the um the citizen app i don't know what the hell I got it for. I think it was a fire thing. I think my friend Dan said it's good for fire updates. But now I got on here. And you just, you know, if you think you live in a good neighborhood, get the Citizens app. You don't know what the fuck is going on in your neighborhood. And I don't know whether it's like promoting entertainment because I got to fight myself sometimes, man.

Just out of nowhere, you'll get a notification from the citizen app. And it's like a naked man running around Trader Joe parking lot with a knife upset that it's not open yet. It's like part of me is like, holy shit, that's crazy. that it's not open yet. It's like, part of me is like, holy shit, that's crazy. And the other part of me is sort of like, I wonder if I leave now,

if he'd still be out there when I get down there. Because I'd kind of like to see that. And then sometimes there's just things come up and it's like, is that really, did someone call that in? Man with indigestion at Glen Oaks and Brand on the corner bus stop. I don't know if that's... Is that really something I should...

Do I need to know that? That doesn't seem like a big deal. Fellow with funny head walking through the Bank of America parking lot. Nope. Don't need to know that. Five gunshots heard. And then sometimes the story doesn't even go on

man talking to his penis sitting in front of walgreens now that i gotta get to what time did that start that sounds like an interesting one-person show i started a conversation with somebody on set today. And, you know, you just never know, man. You just never know. I was talking to some person who I knew from another show. You know, we're just talking about the world for two seconds. She's like, I'm a little worried about communism. I'm like, what?

She said, yeah, I talked to some people that I know, a couple of people I know from Cuba said it's happening. And I'm like, what are you talking about? So I communism in America. Yeah, we're going communist. I'm like, what are you what are you even talking about? She's like, well, I don't know. I'd like to hear your opinion. I'm like, this doesn't sound like one of those opinion talks. This sounds like cuckoo time. This doesn't sound like one of those opinion talks. This sounds like cuckoo time. And then I realized, like, there's like there's I think there's a few questions you can ask when somebody says something like that. When somebody says something provocative that you're not sure where they're going with it.

I got a pretty good idea. There just should be like a quiz where you can just be like, hey, before I get into this discussion with you, I just ask a couple questions. Do you believe in global warming? Uh-huh. Do you believe that vaccines work? Do you believe there is a deep state? Do you think there was election fraud? Like two out of four.

Two out of four of those, you can sort of go like, all right, you know what? Thank you for answering those questions with the yes or no part of this. And I think I'm going to pass on the bigger discussion because, I don't know, it's time I'm not going to get back. And you're a dum-dum. But as I said, I don't know where that, the person I was talking to, I don't know where that was going. Cause I pulled out, I pulled the rip cord before I even got into it. Cause I can get pretty worked up and, uh, you know, you ain't going to change any minds, you know, especially the ones that are on lockdown. I've known Brad Williams for a long time. I've known Brad Williams for a long time he's a funny man he's a little person which is exciting

this is the first time I've talked to a little person on the show so this is a first, a historic first and as I said earlier you can see his specials fun size daddy issues he's been on the degenerates you know

we're just going to do the thing that we do here. Comedian talk. This is me and Brad Williams. You can get anything you need with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs and mozzarella balls, yes, we can deliver that.

Uber Eats. Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region Get almost, almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need.

And policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance. Mind your business. it's so rare to have people in person i know it's weird right yeah i mean i see people but i don't do this much i don't do the podcast with humans that much no no no one's coming over here they all do the zoom stuff with you they do yeah it's uh you know it's weird do you find yourself when you actually have a personal moment with either uh like a gardener or someone who works fast food you like hang on to the conversation a little too long because you're like ah yeah humans interpersonal communication we're talking like people i miss this i miss you i've never met you before in my life i miss this you're so important to me right now yeah no i i find that like oh thank you for bringing me these

macaroons your wife made now i gotta try one on mike because people love that more than anything they love when you eat on mike. Is this like some weird ASMR? They fucking hate it. There's some people where you eat on mic and it's like it's the worst thing. It's like nails on a chalkboard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. God, they're great. Oh, well, she's a great baker.

Really? Yeah. Is that her thing? I mean, it's one of her things. It's not a profession. Yeah, yeah. No, she's a behavioral therapist. Oh, man. How Is that her thing? I mean, it's one of her things. It's not a profession. Yeah, yeah. No, she's a behavioral therapist. Oh, man.

How's that helping you? Great. Are you behaving yourself? Yes. Well, I grew up, my dad's a lawyer, so I'm just used to not winning arguments. And it's just a nice little, I went from being, living with my dad and never winning an argument. And then I live with my wife and she has trained me to lose arguments because she's a behavioral therapist. I accept defeat well.

And then she, and also we're comics. So we're used to bombing. We're used to being told no. And we're used to walking into a club owner's office and being like, hey, I sold 200 tickets. They're like, you sold five. Okay. Yeah.

Bye, thanks. Okay. So the rest was paper. No problem. Did you guys make your money, though? Did you guys do all right? As long as you guys are good. You're going to have me back, right?

Okay. Oh, the worst. I don't miss that shit. I just read that book. Did you read that book by that kid? Oh, which worst. I don't miss that shit. I just read that book. Did you read that book by that kid? Oh, which one? Sam Talent? No, I haven't read it yet.

Do you know about it? Yeah, I know all the comics are talking about it. Yeah, well, I mean, there's comics in it. He kind of blends real life with the fiction. So there's like these weird appearances by guys like Rick Kearns. I mean, that's a deep cut, man. Rick Kearns. Rick Kearns.

Hey, Marin, what's going on? Not a lot of stories about Rick Kearns going around. Well, I think there are plenty of stories about Rick Kearns going around, but nobody knows them. That's what I loved about the Comedy Store doc, is that it dove into some people that aren't, yeah, we all know Letterman, Kennison, but we all know those stories. Sure, man.

But then they did some deep cut stuff. The Freddie Prinze, Jimmy Walker thing, where they go over to John Travolta's with that crossbow. I mean, fuck, dude. That was the best. Can you imagine getting that call? We're going over there. I'm like, what?

But you go. That was the funny thing about Walker. He's like, he went? Yeah, he went. Because what do you do? Say no? gotta go you gotta go and at least witness a murder or maybe stop it i don't know but kerns there was he told me there's a great recurrent story about how like you know he kind of he made he sort of made a show for himself and uh i won in the san francisco comedy competitions he's a he was he was out here. He's a Denver guy. He was around. I've known him.

So he gets an appointment for a general at, I think, at CBS or something. Okay. But he comes down. He's got no fucking car. He's drunk. He's got to take a bus. So it was just this whole story about how he meets the brass. He has a great meeting.

And then he has to go sit at the bus stop. And the guy who he had the meeting with drives by him at the bus stop. And just see. Yeah. Hey, buddy. Is it weird that I get a strange sense of pleasure about people that have it? They have it. And then they blow it for some weird reason.

Or they get in their own way. Like, I'm fascinated with stories like fascinating is a nice word when you do comedy long enough you're like no that didn't work out like uh you know what this is actually first of all thank you so much for having me secondly this is my my first time on the podcast second time i've been mentioned though oh yeah i was mentioned during the Gallagher interview. You were? Yeah.

At some point, it's right before- Did I do it or he did it? He did it. Right before he leaves, you're saying that he does something about, well, he's making a certain kind of joke that's not good or he shouldn't make or something like that. Yeah. And he yells out, I saw a midget comic last week tell a bunch of midget jokes. He's talking about me because I was at Crackers in Indianapolis.

Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, me too. They used to be a good place. I know. And then one of the staff comes back and goes, hey, Gallagher's here. And I go, huh? They go, no, Gallagher's here. Like, oh, okay.

Does he want to do time? Did he bring his shit? Do I have to go on after the Sledge-O-Matic? Wait, are we going to have a Sledge-O-Matic followed by Dwarf Comedy Night? That just seems pretty great. Is he going to take the hammer to the dwarf? Yeah. Does he think he hits me and I explode into confetti what what happens here and they go and they talk to him he goes no he's just here to see the show weird and you're and i'm a pretty

new comic i've just i've just been just been headlining a few years at that point yeah so i'm on stage and he's like second row oh you can see him you could i'm seeing gallagher it's the worst while on stage he wasn't laughing right just looking at you no but and then i talked to him afterward he's like yeah my wife loves your the the the the date that he was with okay wife or something yeah she was the fan oh okay so she brought him and then and then i started thinking myself oh god like because imagine you're in that situation where your partner goes like hey we're gonna go see a comic right and you have to sit there in the audience and watch another comic kill and you know like the last thing you would do is sit close though

especially if you're a known guy you're gallagher for god's you don't want to do that to the guy yeah you know it's gonna fuck him up yeah i You don't want to do that to the guy. Yeah. You know it's going to fuck him up. Yeah. I don't want, and like, I can never do that because look at me. I kind of stand out in a crowd. You don't just scan. In your way. Yeah.

You don't just scan the audience and go, yeah, that's normal. It's true, yeah. But yeah, he was, I don't know. I tried, I haven't really re-thunk that episode. I don't think I have any regrets about it. I was trying to make a point. Right. But yeah, it's the worst when there are other comics.

But Broad Ripple, man, see, I'm in this weird zone because of the quarantine where I'm like, not nostalgic, but I'm thinking like, how did I fucking get here? What have I been through? I'm going to go, I actually have all my date books going back to the 80s up there in the attic in here yeah I just want to go through and see if I can remember the rooms of all those one-nighters and weird shit that we did or that I had to do man well I could you probably haven't been there for a while I'm still doing them so I so I could tell you like crackers was an okay room all I remember about crackers was the woman who ran its father drove you to radio.

Yes. And I don't know if he, I think he's passed. I think so. But he had this weird posture. He had some sort of scoliosis or something. Yeah. And he was this weird little old man. He'd come pick you up at six in the morning to do Bob and Tom.

Yeah, yeah. Isn't it just Tom now? Just Tom and Chick? It's Tom, but they don't take Bob off the marquee. Yeah, yeah. Isn't it just Tom now? Just Tom and Chick? It's Tom, but they don't take Bob off the marquee. Really? They still say it's the Bob and Tom show. So that's the deal Bob made?

So he still gets a few bucks on the back end? Something like that. I don't know. Maybe they thought the listeners would change the channel if it was just the Tom show. But it's just weird. I have these moments where I have these memories where I would go out back and smoke with fucking Bob. Because he's smoking those cigarettes all the fucking time. So that goes back over 10 years since I smoked a cigarette. But just like going out in that cold air in fucking Indiana and fucking smoking cigarettes with Bob.

And then I think I remember doing that show before they moved to the Fancy Studio. Oh, because I've only done it in in the fancy studio yeah the one that they built for them out in the middle of a cornfield yeah that's uh that's about five minutes away from uh tom's house like oh no shit yeah tom's compound with the nine kids four ex-wives or whatever you know what i don't know you're still working i'm sorry i got yeah i'm still working i can't i gotta go back to these shows, Mark. I don't mind that guy. I've got the Netflix half hour, Mark. Half hour.

I don't have the hour yet. I can't burn all the bridges. Can't fuck with Tom. I don't have any problem with him. He's a good radio guy, and I appreciate radio guys. I briefly did radio. Me too. I did radio for a year and a half.

I fucking loved it. Were you the funny guy? The funny... I tried to be. Yeah. Were you the funny guy? The funny... I tried to be. Now, can we say dwarf? Sure. Dwarf is okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What's the bad one? Midget's the bad one. That's the one where they protest you. I'll tell you, man. And I've been protested by midgets. It was not fun. It's a weird anger, I would would imagine that comes from a bunch of little people little people's good right yeah that's the yeah little person or person of short stature is

the ultra safe short stature yeah man i still tell that story when we we were doing you and i were doing that live ona oh that was so good dude with that's so good That beat he had when you told the story that you might be telling me now. Yeah. He goes that you were an Uncle Tom Thumb. Come on. That was the best fucking. That's one of the best one-liners I've ever heard. So quick.

Uncle Tom Thumb. That was crazy. So good. It's also one of those things where as a dwarf comic, when you hear another dwarf joke that I haven't written yet, I'm like, damn it! How did I miss that one? Uncle Tom Thumb. But what was the protest about? Yeah, oh, because now you talk about shithole comedy clubs.

I can talk about this one because it went out of business and I don't have to worry about it. Which one? Joey's Comedy Club in Livonia, Michigan. Never did okay uh good good good on you sir yeah um they it gets passed around the local lpa which stands for little people of america it gets passed around that i'm performing there and that i say the word midget during my act, which I do. Because personally, I don't see anything wrong with, like, I've talked about it, but like, I don't mind the word. I don't want a word to have power over me. I don't want, like, if you call me a midget, now it's like, oh, God, that's that word. Now I have to fight you, you know.

Right. It's a weird thing. Like, even with, like, the word Jew for me, me, I'll use it in kind of a negative way. Like, I'm a Jew. It's a way to say it. But I can only take it for, even people I know really well, I'm kind of sensitive to how they say Jew. So I imagine that friends of yours can say, I imagine if Adam said midget, maybe you'd

be all right. Yeah. Fine. Yeah. That's great. I don't care. It's not loaded. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And to me, it's all about context because I've literally been in Odessa, Texas.

I was chased by some guys in a pickup truck who were yelling out, like, kill the dwarf. Why? And when, yeah, that's the more PC term, but I think kill is the part that bothers me. What did you do to make them upset? I kicked them out of the show. It was... They were just being... They had this two-for-one beer

thing. I don't know. So you had them kicked out. Yeah, and then they waited, and then they chased me. Two dudes waited to kill the dwarf? Yeah. Which sounds like one of those old games that we can't play anymore because it's not PC. Like, we used to be able to play Smear the Queer. Now we can't play Smear the Queer anymore because that's not PC.

We used to be able to play Kill the Dwarf. But, like, when we walk out to go to our cars after the show and the guy yells, Kill the Dwarf! I'm not stopping. Like, thank you for using the proper nomenclature. I'm not stopping like thank you for using the proper nomenclature yeah i'm not doing that so um uh livonia michigan they find out that i'm performing they they they know that i say the word midget so they uh a a group of them i'll tell the real story not the joke story all right the the group of them show up and they're outside of the comedy club and they have picket signs.

Dwarves. Yeah. Dwarves. I mean the, the, the little people. Yeah. The joke is like,

yeah, they weren't picket signs. They're three by five cards, but like, you know, they're out there and they're, and they're protesting the show. They're,

they're saying, don't go see this show. Which to people walking in must've been just the best. They thought, yeah. If you're walking in and you're seeing a Dwarf comic and there's Dwarves protesting, you're like, this is some meta

shit. How many were protesting? Oh, God. I'm sorry. It's just sad that there's no way Dwarves doing anything isn't going to be a little funny. And that's my point. It's funny. Yes. I'm sad that I've said something or that they think I say something that makes them upset.

Sure, that I don't want to make anyone upset. I want to make people laugh. That's my goal. But the fact that you're like 10 to 15 little people out there, it's funny, okay? It's funny. there that's it's funny okay it's funny it's so then you know and i and i know it's so it's it's a deep one because i think we don't see that many little people you just don't know and when you do it's like you know it's like a unicorn oh yeah even i freak out about it if i see another dwarf first of all now especially if like i see another dwarf in a restaurant or something yeah then i

feel insane pressure because now everyone's looking at two dwarves in the restaurant they're like is this a blind date and they're and they're looking for each other is it like depending on the sex and the age they're like oh is this a father son are they lost or their brothers like how is this possible that there's two in one room oh my god we had three dwarves at my high school um really yeah me and then a brother sister and uh and that freaked people out that freaked people out that there was three um the brother was older and then when the sister got there everyone went up to the brother like, hey, there's another dwarf. You should go try it. And he's like, my sister.

That's my sister. No. You asshole. But the weird thing is I understand racism. I understand sexism. I understand anti-Semitism. I understand all the bad isms. Yeah.

But nobody hates a dwarf. I mean, I can understand that. That's going to be the name of my next special. Nobody hates a dwarf. Come on. But it's more of a fascination. There's like an endearing. I think the diminishing quality is that it's so cute.

Yes. Or being referred to as it yeah yeah look at it yeah one of the things about what i've noticed and why it's sort of uh not okay to make fun of dwarves but no one really gets mad at you that much like it's one of the last groups that it's kind of safe to make jokes about is that we're not a threat like if you make like if there's a group of four people of a certain race in a crowd and you make the wrong joke yeah there is the fear of like oh they could they could hurt me for four dwarves in the audience yeah what are you gonna do what are you gonna do what are you gonna try it yeah i i can't i can't i i don't fight we're not yeah but also i

get just the idea that like people are touching you and picking you up and stuff. Does that happen? Oh, yeah. Yes. Mark. Okay. So this is a joke, but serious. Okay?

Yeah. So at the end of my shows, in the before time, I do the meet and greets. I go outside. I hawk my t-shirts and my DVDs to try to make a couple extra bucks and I have to say at the end of my show okay I'm gonna be out there

I have a rule you cannot pick me up and you're laughing and I get it but like there whenever I do it there's always a, aw. Audibly, you can hear this noise in the crowd. Aw.

I thought we could pick him up. Goddamn. He's like, no, I'm a human being. I'm a 36-year-old man. I'm a father. You don't just get to, like, ah. You don't just get to. just get to like ah like you know just get to and yeah like um i had a i i i had a horrible back injury because i did i did a show one time and um so this woman comes up to me and they want to take

a photo afterward and she goes i want a really funny photo a fun photo and i'm looking at the girl and she's like she she's a buck 15 soaking wet really tiny girl yeah so I go okay and I kind of grab her and put her in a fire in a fireman's carry where I'm she's just over my shoulders right holding her up great photo yeah her boyfriend much larger goes oh I want to I want that photo me. Come on. Just jumps on my back. I was out, Mark, for like a year and a half just doing physical therapy. Really?

Yeah. Like I would go on the road and I would just do stretches in the hotel room and like- Was it something that happened because of the way you're built? I have no idea. Your backs are so fucked up. Yeah. So when did you know that you-

When I was a dwarf? Pretty early. I didn't, you know, that's, okay. I have to tell this COVID joke. Yeah. Because it's a real story. Okay. I was at a grocery store.

Yeah. And a kid in a grocery store looked at me and just yelled out, look what he did to him! A kid? A kid! He just put that together. Yeah. He decided.

So he thought that I was walking around pre-COVID like six foot two, loving life. That's hilarious. Someone coughed on me, and then like that happened. God bless the children. Oh, they are so honest. But was it one of those things where you weren't growing and you didn't know? And there must have been a window there where you were like, did you have to be told by your folks? Yeah.

So my parents, not dwarves, just throwing that out there. How does that happen then? I know. You're asking me? I don't know. It's genetic, isn't it? Yes it it's a recessive gene from uh from what i know and uh so yeah my but my parents are not dwarves you know we we don't all have to come from the same tribe right and uh so when i was born um my dad very early very early he knew

that i would be made fun of he knew the world is a very cruel place right so his philosophy was i'm going to make fun of my son first but in a supportive way yeah like he would crack on me when i was like three four years old and then he would say okay now hit me back with something like he taught me how to bust balls right Right. So then by the time I got to school and kids made fun of me, I had comebacks like written, ready. So you were forced to be reckoned with. Yeah. You got the respect. Yeah.

So that, and I think my dad had a really good, positive way of looking at it. He didn't try to ignore it and pretend it didn't exist. I was always raised with, yes, you are a little person. You are different. Life is not going to be the same for you right but yeah you can still lead a very good life my dad was the one who told me that when i meet someone start with a dwarf joke like try to slip in a dwarf joke really fast that way they're comfortable like lighten the lighten the tension yeah break the tension yeah because then because then the person's just staring at me like do i say anything why does he know i i tell you the the the little people i've

met and there's not a ton of them all seem pretty well adjusted i don't know why yeah but i guess but they are i mean i guess there's an acceptance that that uh that you have to live with yeah you know from very early on that most people don't have to kind of reckon with. Yeah, well, and the thing is, is kind of like I hinted at it before, that I never was anything else. I don't know what the average size life is. There's no fiction.

Yeah. Well, I mean, now there might be. Really? Yeah, there's a new experimental treatment that you can give to children between the ages of three and 10. Really? Yeah. There's a new experimental treatment that you can give to children between the ages of 3 and 10. Really? Yeah. That already have the dwarfism?

Yeah. They have dwarfism. It's an injection. And it doesn't cure. But I'm not sure the full effects of this, so I don't want to say it wrong. But some of the health problems associated with dwarfism, it lessens that. It's still in phase three of testing, but it's interesting. Yeah.

What are health problems? Back problems. Right. We have some neck problems, respiratory problems. Really? COVID scary. Yeah, right? Hearing problems sometimes.

But yeah, there's more than just you're small and and that's just my type of dwarfism there's over 100 different types of 200 different types yeah well it's a genetic is there condescension within the community of what type of dwarf you are of course of course there is oh no that that's why when they talk about how like we need to end people judging people by being by being different it's like yeah that'd be nice yeah but like within like you know like uh there's sex of the same uh religion that fight with each other because they believe slightly different things sure yes some dwarves don't like other dwarves or they make fun of other dwarves because they're the types of

dwarves yeah because they're the only ones that we can make fun of you know have you now this is a dumb thing but are there there's some is there some place that you all congregate depends on what country uh there's rumors every town i every city i go to someone always tells me i guess it's a sort of is there a support situation yes there. There is LPA. The same group that got together to protest me is actually a really good group. I don't besmirch them at all. They're doing amazing things. LPA, Little People of America.

Yeah. They have a national convention every summer. I used to go to them when I was a kid. You did? Yeah. Over a thousand dwarves in one hotel wow yeah which i i always make the joke of like that's gotta be really weird for the person that's just staying there on the business trip they they just walk in it's like

okay what happened man i drank too much woke up in the wizard of us right right right yeah oh god there's got i think there's an old Geraldo joke that's something like that, probably, because he was fucking brilliant. Preggie. Yeah. But, yeah, so there's that support system. And they do a lot of things. Like, they get doctors together that specialize in dwarfism. They do a lot of social stuff.

They do sporting events, which, once again, is so great that they do. Very funny. Yeah. Really funny. Yeah, and there can't be anything wrong with the laughter that comes from that. Come on.

I've been to dwarf track meets, Mark. Yeah. They're hilarious. But I think it's just the heartbreaking earnestness of Mark. Yeah. They're hilarious. But I think it's just the heartbreaking earnestness of it. Yeah. That's what makes the laughter a little dubious. What you're laughing at is these people trying.

Yeah. And that's sort of a little cold, but it's human. It's human. I think it's sympathetic. Come on. It's human. It's like, I think it's sympathetic. Come on.

It's like no one, at least no person of sane nature is saying that these people are less than or they deserve less or anything like that. It's just like, okay, but there's funny things to be had. Like, yes, there are basketball games, but none of us know how to rebound because we've never had to rebound before. We've never gotten a rebound. So the ball misses and we just all stand there with our arms out like a basket just going like, all right, just wait. And the ball comes down, right?

We're not skying over anybody else and grabbing the ball at its highest point. What's that other guy's name, the guy who hangs around the comedy store? Oh, Nick Novicki. Yeah, how's he doing? He's great. It's funny because I met Nick years ago ago you guys got the same dwarfism uh i think he's a little different because i have achondroplasia that's the most common type if you've seen a dwarf on television uh like it's the same kind of uh type that pierre dinklage has for sure right yeah he's got a chondroplasia but not the

kind the guy from uh the mini me yeah vern uh yeah vern troyer he's dead right yeah he yeah he's passed uh but yeah he had a different type of dwarfism i'm not quite sure what it is so when you're going to high school and you're doing things, I mean, what are you moving towards? What's your interests? How does that work? Were you a nerd or were you like? I was a drama nerd. I was big into theater.

Were you? And comedy sports, which is improv comedy. In high school? Yeah. Loved it. Really? And wrestling. I was really into wrestling.

I was on the wrestling team. And I'll tell you one thing, Mark. Yeah. I've gotten a few really good reactions on stage, a few good laughs. Right. Nothing, nothing will ever compare to the look on a father's face when his son just got pinned by a dwarf. Nothing. Nothing beats that.

Just the disappointment, just the just the disappointment just the oh god you've given that kid something he's got to live with yeah for the rest of his life yeah you got pinned by a dwarf how's that car ride on the way home hey dad you proud of me how's that life how's that knowing that the dad that's something that dad probably like yells out like see that kid's that life? How's that knowing that? That's something that dad probably yells out. I can see that, though. The kid's whole life. I mean, you've got to be, because they can't maneuver on the same level as you. Yeah.

Low center of gravity. Yeah. There's a lot of dwarves that actually go into wrestling for that reason. And I'm talking about amateur wrestling, wwe aew type stuff but yeah uh some dwarfs do that too uh but yeah so i did wrestling in high school but mostly theater and loved it yeah it was great i had a great teacher that uh her name is mary krell oishi and the freshman year i tried to audition for the school play, and I auditioned for the kid,

because I thought, eh, dwarf kid. And she pulled me aside and went, what the fuck are you doing? Like, why are you going for the kid? And I was like, well, because I'm small, so kid, that makes sense. She goes, no. Kid-sized.

Yeah, she goes, no, go for the lead. She's like, I'm gonna cast based on talent, not based on size know size and physical appearance right and uh i i didn't get the lead but i didn't get the kid so i was i was stoked about it no again it's a nice boost to uh normalizing your fucking personhood yeah and sometimes you need that like it was great to have a person look at me and then say no no no i'm not gonna i'm not gonna judge you like that well i think that's the whole that's the essence of why it's problematic the laughter at uh little people trying to do things and everything else is that you know

you're grown-ups yeah and you know you're you're you're people that you know have lives and work it's like people it's very it's literally an objectification thing. Yeah. It's just not, it's not necessarily sexual. It's just sort of, look at the toy person. Oh, it can be sexual, Mark. Yeah, really? Oh, there's certain people that are banned from going to the LPA conventions because they have fetishes.

Really? Yeah. Like little people? No, no, no, like tall people. They come? Yeah, well, they come to try to come. Oh, my God. Yeah, they come to try to pick up on the little people and no like tall people that they come yeah that well they come to try to come oh my god yeah they come to try to pick up on the little people and it's like which i like listen uh i've in my seat in my single days sure i uh had some fun with uh women

that had a curiosity okay yeah and and to me people would be like no they're objectifying you would be like i had an orgasm how is it objectifying me i know that i mean i think that's different how do you know i mean you know fetish is fetish sure but it's like some people like jews some people like black dudes yeah some people like people with one hand yeah i mean it's not i mean if if you want if you go on porn hub there's some people that like some really weird shit yeah i try to stay out of that. There's a few things I don't need to know. So when you get out of high school, did you go to college?

Did you have a trajectory you were going for? I went to USC. Down here? Yeah. Where'd you grow up? Orange County. Oh, so it's not far. No, not far at all.

And I was going- There's a lot of lunatics up there. Yeah, a lot. A certain type. A certain type. Rich lunatics. Mm-hmm. I'm related to some of them. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. And good friends with others. I remember my mom would tell me stories that when they brought me home from the hospital, she had some friends that would go up to her and be like, don't worry, he'll probably grow out of it. Yeah, he'll stretch out. And she kept going, dwarfism, I don't think you understand. Do you have siblings?

Yes, I have a sister. She's tall. She's an accountant. She's really good. And she's got a husband, and they got two kids. We're the Beaver Cleaver family. Sure. Mom, dad, mom and dad are still together.

Sister, brother. I'm the weird thing. But you're not really weird. You're just different size and shape. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I grew up in Orange County, worked at Disneyland.

No. No. Ha ha. No. I was not one of the seven, Mark. All right. No. Okay. I was not one of the seven, Mark. All right. No. Okay.

I was not in the suit. Is that a dwarf job? To play the dwarves? Not usually because they're kind of big, right? Yeah, yeah. They're larger, but there were some little people that played. I mean, if I'm allowed to say this, it breaks the magic. But there were some little people that played Mickey and Minnie.

Oh, really? They're usually smaller. were some little people that played mickey and minnie oh really uh they're usually smaller are they are there little people jobs hmm i don't know i haven't really heard a comic you know i know yeah like i imagine that i was wondering if there are jobs that require i know that in world war ii uh to save space and resources dwarves were recruited in the Air Force to be gunners. Oh, really? There would be a bubble below the plane. Right. And then the dwarf was put in the bubble.

The worst place. Yeah. Because we fit. And it saved money on materials or whatever. No kidding. Yeah. I know that that would be a dwarf job. Yeah.

Not a great job. All right. So you were working at Disneyland in what capacity? I was a bodyguard for the characters. Really? Yeah, so I walk around with the characters, and I form lines and stuff, and every now and then, a five-year-old steps out of line, I've got to be like, what's up, bitch? Yeah, yeah.

Throw a little forearm shiver. What are you thinking? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Doing that, and then go off to USC. I was trying to be a sports broadcaster. Really?

Really. That was my... I wanted to do that. Are you a sports freak? Yeah. Love it. What's one of the ones? Any of them? Are you one of those people that just watches any sport and you're like in?

Not to say I was watching Korean soccer when all of our sports were shut down, but I may have been watching Korean soccer when all of our sports were shut down. You just like it. I just like sports. I don't know. You could have been in sports. You still can. I mean, you never know. I could certainly

do it. I'm friends with some people that do it, so they might be able to hook me up. But yeah, going to USC to do that, and then at 19, stumbled into a comedy club, and life changed. Yeah, what happened? I took my dad to the brea improv

and uh the comedian on stage was making dwarf jokes without knowing that i was there who's that uh mencia yeah oh that's right i forget you you got you're kind of like uh you and bobby lee or mencia yeah uh prodigies yes Yes. We came from that coaching tree. Right. So yeah, he was on stage and half the audience is laughing and the audience sitting by me is like not laughing at all. Right. And Mencia like looks over and goes, why aren't you guys laughing?

Goes, what? Is one of them here? One of them. And I just raised my hand in the air like, yeah. Yeah. And he called me up on stage. He's like, I want to talk to you so he he calls me up on stage you caught him that's such a fucking that is so funny because that's the only thing that an asshole can do diplomatically to make him not look like a dick it's like he got caught red-handed being a butt you know being a dick and now he's got to erase it by being magnanimous.

To be fair, I really enjoyed the jokes. No, no, right, but I'm saying that, like, you know, in that moment, you're like, oh, fuck, and you've got to be like, so what's going on, man? Yeah. So he brought me up on stage, and he started asking me questions, and I answered the questions earnestly.

I answered them honestly, and my answers got laughs right like you said like where do you work and i go i work at disneyland and the audience laughed and i went you know i had turned to them and had a right had a retort of some kind yeah and uh and just that was that was the shot that were were out where i was like oh man this is this feels really good yeah like because it's a whole different type of thing when you're the you're the person that everyone likes to laugh at and now you're making the jokes and making them laugh so you're controlling the message right it's i think harry shearer said it to me that it's you control the reason why people are laughing at you. Right. Yeah.

And it's pretty great. Yeah. And so I told Mencia that night, I go, I'm going to be a comedian. This is awesome. Yeah. And he goes, okay, good luck. Yeah.

So I started doing it. What, open mics? Yeah. Where at? First open mic night was at the Laugh Factory. Uh-huh. And a few open mics in two open mic stories. I remember the first time I got there.

How long ago was this? This was 17 years ago. You've been doing it that long? Yeah. I know. I look fantastic. You're an old timer, man. It's weird when you cross that point and you pause and go, oh, I'm not the kid anymore.

Yeah. Now I'm the guy that's been- Yeah Now I'm the guy that's been doing it. I remember going to the Laugh Factory, and it's my first time, and some guy is there going like, hey, how many times have you been doing it? And then he goes to me, and I go, it's my first time. He goes, well, don't worry. I've been doing this open mic for 12 years. Do what I do. You'll be fine. I'll go, I don't worry. I've been doing this open mic for 12 years. Do what I do.

You'll be fine. I'll go, I don't want to do what you do. I don't want to be here in 12 years. I'll do the opposite of what you do. Is that dude still there? Probably. Yeah. And then I remember like my third or fourth open mic at the Laugh Factory.

Jamie called me up to his office. Jamie, who owns the Laugh Factory? Jamie Massadi, yeah. Jamie Massadi. And he goes, buddy, here's what we do, buddy. mic at the laugh factory jamie called me up to his office jamie who owns the laugh factory masada yeah james arden goes buddy here's what we do buddy we have little people comedy night buddy all little people comic yeah all little people in audience buddy really now how many are there of you guys i only know not enough to fill an audience and also but i i know that woman the uh who's that woman she has a different type of dwarfism oh tannely davis yeah yeah uh she's

awesome i love her every time i think i'm the first dwarf to do something in comedy yeah tannely did it first i thought i was the first guy the first dwarf to have his name on the comedy store nope tannely davis right there it's actually on there twice oh really i don't know if that's like i don't know why but she's on there twice it's crazy uh so she's awesome and uh yeah so i started doing open mics fast forward to about a year and a half in i go back to see another mencia show he sees me before the show and goes oh you're that guy yeah and did you ever start doing stand-up i go yeah i've been doing it for about a year and a half and he goes why don't you open my show tonight and i'm like oh shit okay i've just been doing coffee shops and we're doing like a guest spot or yeah okay guest spot 10 minutes three yeah three to five right so i uh i go on stage i do my guest spot i come off stage

mencia goes on stage yeah and says uh he he wasn't even supposed to go on it at that point and he just ran up on stage he goes hey yeah did you guys like brad and the audience really cheered and yeah and uh he goes cool you've made a very important decision for me um i've been looking for like a new opener my current opener is ready to start headlining and going off and doing who was that uh steve trevino oh yeah so it's like he's ready he's good he looks at me and just goes brad you want to be my new opener like from the stage i'm like yes and the next weekend he's doing the Fox Theater in Bakersfield, and it's 1,400 people, and I've gone from coffee shops to doing that.

Really? Yeah. You toured with Carlos? Yeah, for like four years. Man, so you kind of skipped a big step. Huge. No, I'm fully aware that that does not happen in comedy. Huh'm i'm fully aware of that that does not happen in comedy huh i'm fully aware of that in retrospect is it was it beneficial or do you think you would have liked

to have come up through the ranks in the clubs and built a following that way uh i see the pros and cons in both uh-huh you know uh it was great to have real audiences and um being able to because a lot of times when you start off it's just other other comics yeah that are in the audience so it's tough to really gauge uh if your joke is really good or not because are they laughing or are they laughing because you're bombing are they you know or right do they think if they laugh you're gonna get the spot and they're not um but so in that way it was very beneficial but i immediately went on the road got good so i didn't really develop those friendships and that camaraderie around the around the la scene right and then when his shit hit the fan you got lumped in some of it yeah some of it yeah was he active

in mentoring you yeah like how like i would do a set and then we would talk about the set and why it was good, why it was bad, where I could have done wrong. And it was almost impossible for him to steal your midget. It'd be really hard. It'd be really difficult to go on stage. You're like the only opener. He wasn't really able. Yeah.

It'd be really hard to go on after the dwarf and be like only opener. He wasn't really able. Yeah. It's like, it'd be really hard to go on after the dwarf and be like, it's tough being a midget. Like, it'd really be kind of a, but yeah. It's the big midget tour.

One thing that, one thing that that taught me, that whole experience taught me, is that- With him or him stealing? Let's just say opening for him yeah and being associated with right is that uh shades of gray i think a lot i think a lot of people look at certain people or events and things and they want one clear answer this person is good this person is bad

right you know yeah that's the problem and it their shades of gray because black and white thinking yeah because that guy took me on the road he would uh pay for my travel he'd pay for my food when we went shopping he'd say throw whatever you want on my pile yeah i i gotcha that guy was insanely generous to me straight up with you yeah no i mean also industrious knows that you know was working all kinds of angles had a lot of ideas you know i i get it put me on his tv show right what were some of the things you learned from him because i can see him and bobby but i mean because bobby does his delivery you know that kind of weird momentum that you know and it works you know it's not it's you know yeah it's not stealing it's just i can see where where Bobby learned these performative tricks. Yeah.

One thing that I specifically remember learning from him is how to play a really large room. Oh, the slow down? Yeah. And how you have to mime everything bigger if you're playing like a large theater. Right. Or like a sold out room. Or if you're pretending to be mexican you have to i did learn that uh i know a lot about mexican food i can do that really well uh but yeah so yeah it's shade it's shades of gray i i i think a lot

of people like i said want want a person to be all good all bad all all whatever and i would say think about the people in your lives like you can say i get that you know it's really hard as somebody in the community and i didn't know like i had to do two interviews with him because i didn't know sure exactly what you know what had gone down but but like just like to be so shunned by your community yeah you know for that something that's specific i mean there's been plenty of fucking joke stealing freaks in this world you know and there's been all kinds of weirdos that get absorbed by comedy because we're weirdos but yeah but man to be spit out like that with that much uh aggression and then have to try to figure out how to rebuild for yourself yeah yeah i mean i you know i understand he fucked up but i

also felt bad yeah and it's a weird thing because now like i'm friends with like i'm friends with joe like right like i'm with rogan yeah yeah i'm friends with rogan i'm friends with that crew i'm still friends with Mencia. Yeah. So it's like, it's a weird place to be in where it's like, I understand both sides and I've seen both sides. So it's very strange to be kind of in the middle of that. I think like looking back on it, like more of it, I think a lot more of it was about those two guys than about anything else.

That would make a lot of sense. that would make a lot of sense that would make a lot of sense uh you know it's like i mean i get it but like there's fucking been joke thieves and freaks yeah i mean i get all of that yeah but it just seems like so much of it was fueled by this fucking cockfight that you know and territorialism i'm laughing because when you say there's so many joke thieves i i'm i'm remembering a story uh where a dwarf comic came up to me to uh before one of my shows yeah and said like hey i'm a it was that pepper bear you're gonna be doing the midget bit because i kind of do the pepper bellies in fairfield california guy goes up and does pretty much a lot of my first album and then comes off stage and I'm like,

and I'm just kind of staring at him and there's dwarf jokes. And then there's like, no, no, that was the dwarf joke that I wrote. Like that. Right. Right.

It's not just the perspective. I, I've had, uh, little people comics open for me before, and we're fine. Right. Like, we could talk. There's a great comic, dwarf comic, in Houston, Texas named Clinton.

This is his real last name, I promise you. Clinton Shorter. Perfect. God's funny. Yeah. But yeah, so like, he's opened for me twice, and we don't have to worry about it. But yeah, there was one comic that opened for me that did my act. And what'd you do?

I just kind of looked at him and said, oh, you were a big fan he goes yeah yeah it's pretty obvious right and he didn't get it he he didn't understand that he literally just did my act did he know he did it i don't think he did huh it's weird well i mean it's got to be like you know on some level sadly in this particular situation it probably got to be pretty empowering for that guy. Like, in the sense that, like, you know, I don't know if he's, no, in a weird way. Like, I don't know if he's going to make a big success with your act. But, I mean, to be able to do, to have the feelings that you had around your issues. Yeah.

To actually have control over why people laugh at you as a little person sure must have been pretty addicting no and i get it and because i i had the same i had the same run but then for every story like that what'd you do to him though oh i just told him like yeah dude that's my set so change it up i understand we're gonna have similar perspectives but find some different punch lines and i can't have you opening for me if you're doing your the first album yeah yeah yeah but then there's but there's another story uh this last montreal comedy festival that i went to yeah uh there's a there's a dwarf comic up there who came up to me and told me that he had started doing stand-up when he heard my albums and then this is the first time he had gotten into the montreal comedy festival so he was

walking up to thank me and i was like oh wow that's cool yeah man and that's a trip that like that it could be an inspiration yeah it's a weird thing because we're just doing this to have fun and uh and make people laugh maybe maybe make people think and that. But then when you have side effects like that, it really kind of takes you back for a second. Yeah, it's great. You don't realize you have that impact because we're selfish animals. When it turns out we did something nice just by coincidence. Yeah, yeah.

It's like when people ask us to do charity shows and we do and people go oh man thank you so much for doing this for the charity and you're like i still got up here and told my jokes and i i i got my rush from it like this isn't right right that's i wanted stage time yeah what was the charity how many times did you see comics go up for these shows, these benefits at the comedy store? What's this for again? I'm glad to be doing a good thing, but I got to work out my 10 minutes. Yeah, that I have to know if I have a joke about the thing that we're raising money for. So you got how many kids? One.

Brand new spanking baby. Really? 10 month old yeah it had a baby during quarantine well not we had her before uh her and i actually have the same birthday uh january 13th you and the baby yeah huh she was born on my birthday how great how that's great great is that and now when you're and your your wife physically is normal yeah yeah yeah she's taller she's uh five foot seven and now genetically that was are there concerns were there concerns or is that not a possibility really oh no it's it's a it's a possibility um there's a really uh 50 50 chance really once once it's no longer a recessive gene? Mm-hmm. Well, once... I'm sure people will tweet at me the exact odds

if they're like geneticists and Grendel squares and something like that. But yeah, we were told 50-50 chance. And yes, she is a little person. She is? Yeah, she is. I love it. No kidding.

Yeah. My wife is Chinese. I'm a dwarf. We have an Asian dwarf baby. And if you want to know what that is, it's the cutest fucking thing in the world. It's awesome. Huh. Yeah.

And you know what? When we found out, because they can actually do tests and find out before she's born. Yeah. They do ultrasounds and they can measure the limbs and go like, oh yeah, you're in the whatever percentile. And then the head's very born. Yeah. They do ultrasounds, and they can measure the limbs and go like, oh, yeah, you're in the whatever percentile, and then the head's very large. Right. So they go like, yep, head's big, small arms, small legs. She's a little person.

And I actually had a really hard time with that at first. Why? Because I knew it came from me. Uh-huh. Where if she doesn't like being a dwarf, if has problems being a dwarf i can't be like well i don't know how it happened yeah maybe you got it from your mom i don't know what she was doing before me like like i i i can't say that yeah so but then uh a friend of mine um named uh jensen carp told me like no no this is the absolute best situation who better to raise this child right

than you yeah because you've been through it you know the things so yeah this kid has the best dad in the world for for what the for the life that she's going to live well it's interesting well that's a curious thing is that like do you see it as a handicap i mean how does how is it classified is it different for everybody i mean it is a handicap uh it's classified but it is so but it's weird because i've had a pretty good run in terms of my health um i haven't had a lot of complications or i had one surgery when i was in high school but that was it uh-huh uh just just on my ankle. But I've had a great run. I've had friends that have had multiple surgeries. I have one friend who-

Just because of the way the body is? Yeah, it's the way the body structure. I have one friend, him and his wife are both dwarves. And here's the thing. If both parents pass on the dwarf gene yeah then the kid is something called a double dwarf dominant which sounds awesome but is not right uh the kid will usually not live and they usually have to take yeah bad stuff and uh yeah a friend of mine that's happened to him twice uh him and his wife and it's awful it's awful so the fact like so yes it is a disability and there's some uh dwarves that

have different types dwarfism than me that have a much harder go of it right and uh and my heart goes out to them and to see what they do and how they deal with it like it's weird that i could look at my situation and be like, wow, yeah, I've had some things not go the way I exactly wanted them to, but at the same time, I'm pretty lucky. But yeah, my daughter has achondroplasia, same type of dwarfism as me, and so far so good. She's been great.

We've seen geneticists. We've seen orthopedists. We've seen everyone kind of looking at her, and so far so good fingers crossed but yeah it's uh it's great she beginning of the journey she talked she said her first word she did how old is she 10 months yeah is that normal that's i have no idea what was the word data oh that's nice said it while staring at me that's good that's good and then she she's trying to say she's trying she's she's trying to say mom, but she's having trouble with the M's, so she calls

my wife Bob. Uh-huh. Like Bob. Bob. She's trying to say, but her M's sound like B, so we go into her room in the morning and she's like, dada, Bob. It's just kind of like, all right. Yeah, so I'm raising our daughter with my partner, Bob.

That's funny because she's trying to say mom. She's close. Yeah, she's getting there. Yeah. But yeah, it's a trip, man. She was born before everything shut down, but then everything shut down. And it's tough because we don't have people coming over. We coming over you know like we don't have grandparents grandparents like we have your folks still alive yeah uh they're yeah they're and they've seen her and they've held her like

you know um outside wearing masks like that but that's good yeah mom can't come over and like do the things that she and help out yeah so yeah it's been rough but i mean i know what people say when they say it's like the greatest thing in the world it absolutely is it's also the hardest thing that's what it seems to me yeah and and what um what have you been doing are you you and adam still going at it or what oh doing the podcast uh and you're talking about adam ray we uh we're not doing the podcast anymore. He is. We didn't have a Van Halen moment.

We didn't split up. I'm not hating him. It was just I knew that with the kid coming that I would need more time to be a dad. And the kid's schedule doesn't care that you've got to interview susan sarandon right right the kid needs things sure needs to think yeah so yeah uh i stepped i stepped away from the podcast um he still does it and uh it's cool we're we're fine i i tell this story to people people like oh so you and adam like hate each other now it's like no we're friends that's why we started the podcast we're friends friends. Right, right. So yeah, all good.

And what do you got going on? Did you do a special drop or something? I've done, oh, I did a virtual show, like a big thing where everyone bought tickets and like. Did that work out? Yeah, it was more fun than I thought it was going to be. No kidding. So you did it from your house?

Yeah, from my house. Got a couple lights, got a camera there and just stood and um they they let uh it's a company called rush ticks they got some great shows coming up go um and uh they they let like 20 people in as vips that you could actually hear them laughing so you have something to go off of right uh but then we had yeah we had over 600 people watching the show who was on the show me just you just me so you made a few bucks then yeah yeah i did did okay it it was nice that's wild it was nice i mean hey man uh people are getting creative in this times you know yeah i'm i'm wary to do i'm glad i do the podcast i don't really want to do outdoor shows i just don't feel

like it i totally understand i mean and the virtual. I don't really want to do outdoor shows. I just don't feel like it. I totally understand. I mean. And the virtual shows, I don't know. It's just the weirdest thing to me is doing, and I'm not bragging, but I had to do the Tonight Show from my backyard, which is like, who the fuck ever thought that would happen?

Yeah, yeah. I talked about Obama in my garage in 2016. Now I'm talking to Fallon in my backyard and it's his show. Look, I was ahead of the curve on the fucking lo-fi business. A lot of stuff has been happening in this house. Yeah, it's, you know, people are adjusting. I did some drive-in shows. How were they?

It's interesting. How do you pace yourself? What you do is the- Are they sitting on their cars or in their cars? Both. Yeah. The front row, I did one at the Irvine Improv, and then they did it at the top of their parking structure.

Uh-huh. And they have the front row be pickup trucks, and the trucks turn around, and people are like tailgating. So you can actually see them and hear them laughing uh so you can kind of time it out it's not perfect it's not a you know it's not a sold out show on a saturday night but it's something yeah and for people like myself that uh don't you know um have another source of income right besides this is your wife working uh no because she had to you know she stopped to take care of the kid.

Right. And then I was going to work, but then everything shut down. So I had to pivot and do virtual shows and drive-in shows. Hell, I'm on Cameo. Yeah? Does that make you any money? Yeah, it did pretty well. People want dwarves to give them uh good news you know

or wish them happy birthday it's is there a category a dwarf category i don't know just a popular drawer i i yeah it's like me and danny woodburn uh i think i think we're the only dwarves on there i'm probably wrong there's probably a lot more little people on there but yeah you you you just kind of adjust and uh i i don't know i've i've said this but i'm sure other people have made this comparison but the virtual shows and driving shows it's like the methadone it's not no i get it it's not the heroin but yeah i just like for some reason i'm just happy that like i'm not in a position where i have to do them but you know i imagine if you have to you just adjust yeah you just it just none of it sounds fun to me i took a part in something and it doesn't sound fun to me you know well you want it because part of this is you kind of want it to be fun yeah

to be fair mark you you weren't the guy that was having a ton of fun before this i'm not known as the fun guy yeah so now it's just like worse yeah my fun was no fun now it's just no fun fun yeah yeah but i mean you you know you do what you can and i've been out there and did a couple of shows in places where they were at like one-third capacity so they were like in a comedy club so they're spread out yeah i did uh hilarities in cle Cleveland and the Comedy Works in Denver. That's such a tiny room. That must have been odd. So it's not 400 people. It's 120 people.

Spread out through the room? Yeah. Wild. And it was okay? Yeah. Well, it's better than the virtual show because it's- Well, no. I mean, I've done the shows for nine people indoors in my life.

I mean, I know there's some nights in the original room where it's- I get it. Right. And that's what- It's like I would do press for the shows or i would have comics call me up and be like oh man isn't it weird having the club just a third full i'm like i only started selling tickets like a year ago this is not it's like an 11 30 spot at the original room yeah it's fine yeah we're used to it we're comics so yeah that yeah, I could get that. I could get around that. And they're wearing masks. Sometimes. Yeah.

It's like, I. It's scary, right? Yeah. It's scary. Callum got the shit. Yeah. And what's his name? Shob.

Yeah. Yeah. Do you know those guys? I know Shob. Did he get over it? Yeah. I mean. They're fine?

I don't know anyone who's passed from it, but I've got like 12 friends that have gotten it. Really? Yeah. And they all made it through? Yeah, I mean, and then I know someone whose parent passed away from it. Oh yeah, me too.

Lori? Yeah, Lori. Yeah. Lori Kilmartin's Twitter. Wow. Going through that. Crazy. It's impossible to like

it's such an in the moment thing that it's hard to describe to people but go back and read some of those tweets and it's just the most funny and heart punch gut wrench stuff. She's like so equipped for it because she did that whole book

about her father passing right? I mean she's like so quick for it she did that whole book about about her father passing right i mean she's like the death joke person but for it to be going on real time was really hard to watch yeah it was funny but it was brutal yeah and uh so she's the best she is fucking funny and uh so it it's tough to do shows everyone just kind of you know you make your own piece with it and you say will i do this i've can't i've canceled some shows that i thought i was supposed to be as we're recording this i was supposed to be in arlington texas this weekend and then just everything started spiking i'm like i can't and i had to cancel week of which i i hate i i don't want to cancel a week of but it's dangerous

i don't want to the guy was the understanding or was oh everyone's been cool everyone's like all right it's almost like you know you caught him you know like they know yeah i have to be careful because my dad is a cancer survivor he's he's immune compromised so i don't want to get close to him uh my dad told me one time he's like oh no i'm going out to the store and he's gonna do something and i went dad stay the fuck home like i'll bring you stuff right he's like nah i'm just gonna go to the store and i go dad i don't want you to die because of a trend yeah and people want to go out though that's the weird thing it's not they're not being stupid they're just like i'm going nuts yeah and i get that fucking store i

get that we're all we're all going i'm like that too i got i do fly almost hospital ppe to go out i got n95 masks and i've got a plastic visor just to go to ralph's yeah you the whole thing but and then and then that's when you have the too long conversation with the yeah yeah yeah with the cashier yeah yeah we're all we're all we're all just trying to figure it out it's an insane time to be a comedian and uh it's the same time to be alive alive certainly and it's compounded by being an american and if we're gonna get through but i mean there has been some you know good news on the on the treatment and vaccine front it seems like they they it seems like they're going to get a handle on it if we can just make it through this goddamn yeah winter yeah without fucking morons ruining everything i'm trying and that's one of

the other reasons why like i canceled everything for the rest of the year when they started saying you know we got a vaccine and it's like okay well i don't made it this far yeah i don't want to fumble on the one yard line i want to get in so let's so so let's go let's get the let's get the damn vaccine yeah yeah yeah i'm not gonna like my dad beat cancer i don't want to be the one that knocks him out well i'm glad you're taking care of yourself congratulations on your baby thanks man well she you know my wife did all the work i i stood there i coached oh yeah you were there oh yeah you gotta do it i guess yeah it was uh, it's crazy, you're in that room and I'm up by my wife's head,

just kinda coaching her through it, telling her she's doing great and all that, and then all of a sudden you hear another voice in the room. Oh my God. It's nuts, it's nuts. And then, and I know it's been said a million times, but then they just give you the baby and say, all right, go home.

Just take it? And do what? Like, I don't know. We only get you to the door. You got to figure everything else out. Right. But now, in terms of, is there some path to doing what you're going to have to do outside of, are you just going to use your own wisdom to bring up a little person or is there is there an approach that you know is uh known yeah i mean it's kind of like parenting in general y'all just kind of do what you think is right i

mean i get that i i want to kind of raise her the same way my dad raised me in that you are you are aware that you are different so when someone stares at you or says something you're not like what why like it's like no okay this is why they're doing this but then to have the mature response to have a response and uh so yeah it, it's going to be rough. You know, there's going to be times where she's going to want to do things that, like, but at the same time, like, I played a lot of sports as a kid. My mom did not want me to play sports. My dad was like, get him out there, you know.

And so I at least have that knowledge of, okay, we can do stuff. So if she wants to play soccer or baseball or whatever, great. Yeah. Go on out there. Do the thing. So it's that. And my wife, in addition to being a behavioral therapist, is also a martial artist. And she wants to teach her how to be a martial artist, too.

Great. So I thought, yeah. Yeah, why not? Do that. Fantastic. You got a plan. Yeah. teach her how to be a martial artist too great so i thought yeah do that fantastic you got a plan yeah it it's but we're all just the the plan changes daily it seems with what's going on you know you know like i'm just like i i'm i don't know if how much is gonna i don't know what normal is gonna look like but in terms on the disease front, there is reasons to be a little bit hopeful. Yeah, and it's weird.

It's weird how much hope does work. I mean, what are you going to do? I mean, it's unnatural. It's probably stupid, but what's the alternative? We're fucked, man. I mean, that is one. Yeah, but that's what I mean. I do that too. That mean, that is one. Yeah, but that's what I mean. I do that too.

Yeah. That's exhausting. It is. Yeah. I mean, the best way to go is either have hope, which is maybe silly, or just go like, hey, I got no control over what happens and I'm okay right now. Yeah. So stay in that.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. No, totally. And it's just amazing when like a new good news comes out about a vaccine or something where I go, okay, we're almost there. Yeah, come on, we can do it. Come on! Come on, humans.

And you just want to get to that point. I want to go back to watching sports with packed stadiums. You want to hug your friends and family. You want to have parties. I think that might happen. I wasn't so sure, but it seems like some of these vaccines and the nature of the virus itself, I guess it's sort of a slow evolver. It doesn't mutate too quickly. So we might be able to knock it back.

I hope so, man. Got to work. we might be able to knock it back. I hope so, man. Because as much as you probably enjoy the podcast and are thankful for the podcast, at the same time, I mean... I miss hanging out at the store. Yeah. I miss going out. Yeah.

I miss that more than I miss doing comedy. I miss just being able to like, I'm just going to go over and... It's going to hang. Yeah, sit around. No, there are so many times at the store where you just go and you sit back in either the green room way in the back or in the parking lot. The hallway.

The hallway. And I just stare. You're hanging out and you're talking. Yeah. And then you have a moment where you step back and go, holy shit. Between the five people talking right here, we could sell out a stadium. Or that one guy can yeah well there's russell peters yeah if we all open for him yeah if we all open for rogan then

yes we could sell out the fucking so yeah table center but yeah like there was uh there was a night where it was like it was like gaffigan and kreischer and rogan and and like just a bunch, and Burr, Burr and Regan showed up, and everyone was talking, and Burt was talking about tour bus problems and everything like that. Everyone's nodding, and then Burr came in and goes, dude, look outside. There's a bunch of fucking Benzes and Teslas. Shut the fuck up. It's so great.

And those moments, those moments are what you miss and whitney coming with barbs and and annie letterman being awesome and like just i i miss that that's why i want to get like i i want to get vaccinated just so i could run up to everyone and give them a hug and just be like i fucking miss you yeah i fucking miss you and everyone played their part uh you know everyone has that character that when so-and-so walks in you're like oh cool yeah yeah this person's here they're they're gonna do that thing right yeah everyone yeah because we're all personalities and you know what to expect now and you always can get a laugh yeah now will when things get when things do get back and you do get back on the road, will you have that thing where even when you're experiencing the hard parts of touring,

will you be like, ah, it's not that bad? Who knows? You know? I'm honestly surprised at how much I don't miss it. I've been doing it most of my life without any break. And right before the pandemic, days before, I dropped probably the best special I ever did. It was good. Thanks.

There's some part of me that just is sort of like, man, maybe I'm done. Well, I mean. Maybe I'm all good. Yeah. I've got to beat myself up for. I totally feel you. My second special, I talked about my dad getting cancer and then beating it. Yeah.

And then at the end of the special, he's in the audience. And I had this moment where I was filming it where I was like, don't look at him. Don't look at him. Don't look at him. And then I looked down and I see him and I start crying. And then I started improvising like a thank you to him and just thanking him for everything that he did for me and then it was so cool

because I got that moment. Yeah. Like I got that moment and now that's recorded. Right. Like I have that. Yeah, after that I was like, what am I going to do now?

Yeah, I think I'm fixed. I think I'm all good. What's that special called? It's called Daddy daddy issues and uh it's streaming on amazon prime uh and so people could go and watch that there the craziest part about that and i i couldn't find a way that whole special at least the dad parts was almost written just in one night because i was at the comedy works in Denver. Yeah. Or the, not the downtown club, the landmark one. And I was in the green room.

And I knew that my dad was going in for a test. Yeah. And this is going to be where we find out, like, is he okay? Or do we got to go for more chemo? And that would essentially be not, like, it's just for show at that point. Yeah.

So, and I haven't gotten the phone call all day all day all day all day and then i'm about um i'm getting ready and my phone rings and i look down it's my mom so i go like okay it's the call and i answer and the first word she says are he's in remission whoa and i just burst out crying yeah the other comics know that i've been telling them i'm i'm finding out this stuff today the other comics in the room see me get a call and then burst out crying so they're probably like oh god it's the worst thing ever and then literally as i'm crying uh chuck roy is on stage and he and he just goes please welcome Brad oh no how'd he go

on stage and then like I go on stage and I've got tears streaming down my face and I can't just go well let's talk about what's in the news like I can't I had to address it so then I just started talking about it and I hadn't talked about it

the entire time he was going through it and you were getting some laughs? yeah and then I just started talking about it. Oh, wow. And I hadn't talked about it the entire time he was going through it. And you were getting some laughs? Yeah. And then I thought, ooh, there's something here. It's interesting. That's when it really happens where you kind of got no choice. And you're in it. And then you realize that our skill set is getting laughs, right?

But that's how I write like that all the time. But you don't know why. But you know when you're're up there if you're going to be talking about anything the impulse in you from 15 years of working yeah is that like well i'm gonna find the laugh yeah that's gonna figure it out right that's gonna happen innately yeah i gotta get there yeah a uh a acting coach gave me a set of line one time that I thought was so great where they said, desperate people get super creative super fast. And it's really accurate. Yeah, and if you're charming and full of shit, then you got everything you need. Yeah, I just got to work on the charm part.

But yeah. Charming. Yeah, thank you. It's true and uh those those are some of the those are some of those moments and that's what i can't wait to get back to because right because because right now we're all kind of stuck in a limbo where it's like we're not really working on material material i know it's hard and also but the other thing that's gone is like we're not so we're also not competing with each other. So there's a little reprieve.

Now, you're talking about driving shows. I'm like, no, fuck that. Do I got to be a... Is that something I got to do now? Am I going to start doing that now? God damn it. Gann, if you want. I know.

Go out there with Chrysler. Yeah. Come on. Take my shirt off with Bert. I don't know if Bert's's fans I don't know but Burt's fans wouldn't know what to do with me the uh it's like I like a lot of those guys like you know even Rogan's guys like like they I I can get them laughing but you know and they respect me but they're sort of like I don't really want to hang out too long you know that's see that's so weird

it's so weird for me to hear you say that because I think you're one of the guys. I think you're one of the top people. I am. Yeah. Well, I'm my guy. You know what I mean? I'm one of the guys, but I got my people. Sure.

Also, I can make anyone laugh. I'm a pro. Yeah. But I'm just not quite guy enough. Do you know what I mean? Man. It's a crazy thing, because I watched the Comedy Store talk, loved it.

And then, of course, you talk about competing. I'm in my head going, why didn't they talk to me? Of course. But then- I just talked to Binder. There's plenty of people that are pissed off. Sure. I'm not mad at them. The whole history of comics.

Yeah, there's so many stories that you can't tell the number of names on that wall and count the number of people in the in the actual dock yeah so the ones that aren't dead on the wall they're pissed a little bit yeah so i was like looking at that like oh man i i guess i'm not one of those cool comedy store people but then but then it's like you are one of those people and you still have thoughts so it so i know i have a certain amount of self-acceptance okay you know but i do know that like there's part of me like like why can't i you know why am i not an arena act it's like well dude that's pretty clear you never were gunning for it and what would an arena of you an arena like an arena

marin well how many you know i mean like i'm of a, I'm a specific thing in a way and I'm fine. I've got just enough people to make a living. But like, what am I going to tell if I've, if I'm attracting an arena of people, there's a lot of troubled people. Yeah. There are, there, there, there's definitely some comics where you, where you go like, yeah, I could see that making 12,000 people laugh.

Yeah. You know, like that kind of big energy. I have just the right size of, you know, where I'm going. I'm happy with where I'm at. And I accept that. And it is truly, you know, I'm grateful. And I do think I've hit my level in terms of, and it's a good level. But, like, if there's more levels, you know, you're going to have your days where you're like, nah, fuck.

Where's my plane? Yeah. I don't know, man. I will say that one thing that having the family gives you is that none of that shit matters. All right. So I got to go get me. I'll go get myself a family. Go get one.

Then you won't compare. Then I'll just come home. I'll look at my wife. I look at the Asian dwarf baby or the ADB as we call her. Yeah. And I'll just go, okay. There we go. Life's good.

Okay. All right. So it's never like, oh, fuck. Now I got to feed you guys. I mean, sometimes. Sometimes I want to put the Asian dwarf baby to work and be like, hey, can you pull your weight? Do something here? Well, you've got time.

One day. Yeah. Thanks, Brad. Hey, thanks, buddy. Brad Williams, funny fella, nice guy. Come see him when he comes near you to do the thing. I can't play guitar. I don't got it in me.

I don't know if the, do I have music in me. I could play harmonica or just a little ¶¶ © transcript Emily Beynon Boomer lives. Monkey. La Fonda. Cat angels everywhere. Cannabis legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising.

Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Discover the timeless elegance of cozy where furniture meets innovation. and ACAS Creative. Experience the Cozy difference with furniture that grows with you, delivered to your door quickly and for free. Assembly is a breeze, setting you up for years of comfort and style. Don't break the bank. Cozy's Direct2 model ensures that quality and value go hand in hand. Transform your living space today with Cozy. Visit cozy.ca, that's C-O-Z-E-Y, and start customizing your furniture.