WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1199 - Salma Hayek

Episode Date: February 8, 2021

Salma Hayek says she survived in Hollywood because she didn't let anger get the better of her. And she'd have good reasons to be angry, facing a barrage of sexism, discrimination, typecasting, and a general dismissiveness of her talent. Salma and Marc talk about how she stood up for herself, particularly when making the film Frida, and why Salma believes the gender imbalance in the industry is changing. They also talk about her new movie Bliss which depicts a false reality that feels uncomfortably relevant. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance, mind your business.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store

and ACAS Creative. Lock the gates! All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck, buddies? What the fuck, Knicks? What the fuck, Sturs? What the fuck, Etz? There's a lot more what the fuck, Et the fuck nicks what the fuck stirs what the fuckettes there's a lot more what the fuckettes these days i don't i don't know what that's about but welcome

what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf how are you salma hayek is on the show tonight what am i doing what what what do you mean tonight? She's on the show in a minute. You know her from the movie she made with Robert Rodriguez. She made Frida. She's the executive producer of Ugly Betty. She was in an independent movie that I love called Beatrice at Dinner. Talk about that a bit. She's currently in a movie called Bliss with Owen Wilson, which is a movie about living in a simulated reality and not knowing what is real and what isn't, which actually has a bit of relevance today. I got to be honest with you people. I know sometimes I may come off as a dire, cynical, worked up, but I don't want to be misunderstood.

I don't want to be, I don't think I'm negative. I don't think I'm a depressive. I think sometimes I'm more sensitive than others and more in tune with the frequencies that are causing me fear and panic, which I need to embrace. I think we should all embrace a little bit. You can do whatever you do to stuff those things down. I'm a magician. I will now bend my negativity into a positive. Please, folks, bear with me. Bear with me.

Everything is so great. Everything is just so fucking good. great. Everything is just so fucking good. I'm feeling I'm happy to be alive today.

Bend it. Twist it. Listen. I am feeling a little better today. I don't know what it is. I don't know. I'm sorry. I'm not paying any lip service to the Super Bowl, which happened yesterday, but I recorded this before the Super Bowl.

And I got to be honest with you, and it's not being condescending nor dismissive nor judgmental, but I had no fucking idea who's playing. I could look it up, but I don't care. It's not I'm not avoiding the information. I don't follow any of it. And I just don't know. But there's a lot of things I don't know.

I'm starting to realize that as we sort of find ourselves in our own bubbles and we are very specifically picking and choosing what we put in our brains. It's very easy to realize what you're tapped into and what you're not tapped into when the collective momentum is fragmented. There's a lot I don't know. And then my brain is sort of like, God, no one's watching that today. It's like, no, you're not. Doesn't mean there aren't millions doing it just because it's not part of the information you're taking in. No, in my world, nobody cares about it. I'm surprised if they even have the game. That's how, you know, if I'm not interested, they might as well cancel it. And if I'm not interested, they might as well cancel it. That's the narcissistic isolation bubble of judgment based on your own engagement with the world, which is all limited to a very specific set of choices for each of us right now.

But the coyotes, man, the fucking coyotes, the middle of the night. Now, I live in a neighborhood. It's an old neighborhood. But it's LA. It's not far from a hill, a mountain of sorts. And I hadn't, uh, right when I moved in here after it rained once, there was a large coyote in my front yard. Something is shitting in my front yard occasionally in the same place as if to prove a point sort of off. It's not like any place I walk around, but it's sort of in the same place as if to prove a point sort of off. It's not like any place I walk around, but it's sort of in the same place off to the left of the front of the house. Just some wild thing is taking a dump to make a point. I don't know what the point is. I don't know what kind

of animal it is. Maybe it's a coyote, but I saw a big one there once and it was kind of menacing. I don't know why we assume they're not wolves. They're not going to attack. They are. Coyotes are kind of pussies. I know they represent something. The trickster. The coyote is the trickster in the indigenous people's spiritual universe. The coyote is an omen of an unfortunate event or thing in your path or in the near future. Why? Why do we have to do that? That's from Navajo mythology.

It is certainly an unfortunate omen for any cat, any outdoor cat or small dog. The, you know, 99% of the time, the coyote is not a good thing. Let's see what is this coyote legend from the Oregon encyclopedia. Nonetheless, coyote is a very popular figure playing his role of scheming, self-seeking trickster, stirring up trouble, testing and violating moral precepts. Oh, so he's basically a comic. Coyote is comic. He provides a vicarious escape from social restrictions. That is, until his usual comeuppance for such outrageous misbehavior reinforces them.

Man, these coyotes. And some of these myths say he helped the gods invent the people. Why is the coyote? Oh, here we go. This is important. What does coyote poop look like? Hmm. Coyote scats are rope-like and typically filled with hair and bones,

unlike dog scat. Scat. Coyotes use scat to communicate. Oh, so that scat. So whoever's been scatting in my front yard is definitely not a coyote because it looks like a vegetarian scat to me. But the coyote is a trickster a tough audience but man i i heard a pack of them the other night i was laying in bed woke me up at 3 30 in the morning just cackling

reveling coyotes someone told me that they're mating now i always assume when they're laughing and yelping it's because they just ruined somebody's life by eating their pet. But no, they might just be out at the club. They might just be looking for love. I don't know. I don't know. But it woke me up. But Buster swept right through it.

Buster didn't give a fuck. Then the next day we heard him and Buster was freaked out. Because I assume that Buster has some memory of that. He was out on the streets until he was about two months old, running around. A wormy little kitten. I was going through some papers and stuff and I saw the history of my cats' lives and deaths. Buster was born in march we assume march 2016 the tricksters are out they are an omen to your pet so i watched uh nomadland which i thought was great i i was wary about it and then i watched it

and i had no idea i mean obviously franc obviously, Francis McDormand is always amazing. And I guess some actual nomad people, American nomads, people who are out there going from regional job to regional job, living in their cars or campers. But it's a beautiful movie. But it's really about grief. It's a sad movie, but it's an elevation of the human spirit at the end. It's a little heavy hearted, but it really is a movie about grief when you look at it. I thought, is this a movie about people who just have a community of wandering people? Is it about homeless people? No, it's about situational displacement, but it's really a movie about personal grief, and it's quite a beautiful film. I recommend it.

I recommend it. Salma Hayek. We had a pretty tight hour here to talk, and I think we got into some stuff. I think we connected. Sometimes it's tricky, because I know she's doing a lot of these she's talking a lot of people she's going on and off 10 minute junkets she's

she's been sort of uh flogging this movie bliss is that what you say is that the right word which i thought was a pretty good movie um hadn't seen owen wilson in a while hadn't seen selma in a while and then i got to talk to her face to face on the video, which was daunting because she's powerful. So this is me talking to Selma Hayek about her movie Bliss with Owen Wilson, which is now streaming on Amazon Prime Video and many other things. All right. So enjoy listening to this. This is me and Selma Hayek. So enjoy listening to this. This is me and Salma Hayek. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence.

Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising.

Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Be honest. When was the last time you thought about your current business insurance policy? If your existing business insurance policy is renewing on autopilot each year without checking out Zensurance, you're probably spending more than you need. That's why you need to switch to low-cost coverage from Zensurance before your policy renews this year. Zensurance does all the heavy lifting to find a policy, covering only what you need, and policies start at only $19 per

month. So if your policy is renewing soon, go to Zensurance and fill out a quote. Zensurance, mind your business. Hi. Hello, Salma. Hi, Mark. How are you? I'm good. Yeah? Nice to see you. You look nice. Thank you.

So do you. Thank you. You have a big mic. I know. Very intimidating. What are you drinking? I am drinking lemon, cayenne pepper, and maple syrup. Really?

And that's in water?'s water yeah and is that is that is that supposed to uh keep you uh from getting covid no no i wish it was supposed to keep me awake for you oh really what what time is it there i just didn't sleep last night it's only 6 30 but if you didn't have a good night's sleep, then... Why? Were you freaking out about something? Yeah. What?

I'm not going to tell you. No? I hate when I can't sleep. Oh, me too. It's the worst. I usually... It doesn't happen to me too often, but if your brain starts going, it's a problem. And you know, I don't need a lot of sleep.

I sleep like only like five hours a night. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't need, I wake up at five in the morning. I go to sleep late at night. But if I sleep four hours and 50 minutes, I'm really a zombie. I need my five.

But what do you do? Like I'm, I get, I'm the a zombie I need my five but what do you do like I'm I'm the same way I get up at 630 in the morning but now with the you know with everything limited

every day seems like two weeks not to me no not to me oh it's magical this is the first of all

I have a production company in LA but I live in London right okay so at five o'clock I still work because I get to talk to people in LA. Oh, yeah. Right.

And I can call even family. Sometimes I wake them up in Mexico. But I usually don't call them right away because five o'clock is the time where I get to be alone. Yeah. All right. Quiet. I'm married with children. I'm a working mother

that is married on top of it. How old is your kids? I have from 24 to 13. How many? Four. And they're all there? No, only the 13. Oh, that's a lot.

But you know what? I inherited three children before the 13th. Oh, okay, okay, right. But they're in mine. Right, right. But you know what? I inherited three children before the 13th. Oh, okay, okay, right. But there's in mine. Right, right. But they're spread out. Just a 13-year-old's home, but that's a lot of them.

For now, yes. For now, yes, because there was another one living with us, but she has been drafted. First of all, now she's in university, and she's been drafted by the French team of jumping horses, equitación. Oh, wow. That's impressive. I don't know. Just the idea of being on a horse frightens me. Oh, they're gorgeous animals. But do you ride them? I used to ride them and then I had a very traumatic accident. On a horse?

On a horse. What happened? I was asked to ride horses for other people and sometimes to help out. Yeah. A new horse arrived and he was crazy. Right. And I got on the horse and started working the horse. And the horse went insane. Yeah.

And they started screaming at me. It was so bad. He was bugging me against the rails. Oh, my God. He said, jump off the horse. Okay? Yeah. So I finally jumped off the horse.

And I've never even heard of this before. He came back to try to kill me on the ground. Like a bull. Yeah. And he stepped on, I mean, I, I had,

I had, I have some interest and everybody came in to try to get the horse, but I just didn't know the horse had that. And it's very rare, very, almost impossible. And so I didn't ride again. And,

but I do rescue horses. I have a ranch. Yeah. And I have the horses, but they're free in the field. And I have ridden horses for movies. Sure. Banditas, I had to do a lot of tricks on the horse. So I've built myself up for it.

And just lately, I shot a movie called Eternals, and they don't want me to say anything about it, so I might be in trouble. You didn't say anything yet. I didn't sleep last night. I can always tell them that. Yeah. I ride a horse in that movie, and I have now... I don't think that's a spoiler, is it?

It is, because it's a sci-fi movie. It's kind of strange to have an eternal creature on earth riding a horse. But I kind of healed it this last time. You healed the horse? You healed your fear? My fear, yeah, my anxiety about it. So when you had the injury with the scary horse, were you a kid? I was 21.

Oh, was that in Mexico? Yes. That was something you were doing at that time, was training horses? That was a thing you did? For fun. Oh, okay. I was an actress already. No, yeah, already, but you just liked the horses.

How much family do you still have over there? Hundreds. We're Mexican. A Mexican Lebanese. Hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of them. I'm also 54, so they start piling up with the kids and the more kids and the more kids. Mexican, Lebanese, and Catholic. A lot of kids. A lot of kids, yeah. How does Mexican-Lebanese happen? Your father was Mexican-Lebanese? Yes.

How did that, what's the history of that connection? My mother, Mexican-Spanish. My grandfather came to Mexico. My father was mexican lebanese yes how did that how what's the history of that connection my mother mexican spanish my grandfather came to mexico my father was born in mexico okay so your grandfather was lebanese yes and my grandmother completely the opposite of the typical uh story of an immigrant my grandfather actually came from a well-to-do family with money to Mexico and lost it all. On what? On textiles. He had a partner. Okay.

Who kind of took it. The bad partner. Yeah. The partner that runs off with the money. Yeah. Well, that's interesting. So your mother is Mexicanican spanish and your your father is really sort of lebanese you know from going way back yeah my my grandparents on

my mother's side were spanish now so that must mean that was there an interesting hybrid of food of between lebanese and oh my god yes and you know what i didn't know that the kipe was not Mexican. Kipe wasn't Mexican. Or that the paella was not Mexican. Right. Yeah. And my mother is a fantastic cook, and my father is a fantastic eater. Yeah. And so I grew up eating a lot of really good food.

I bet. I mean, I'm excited about it. I grew up in New Mexico. And then there is the New Mexican food, which is the Tex-Mex, which is also great. Green chili, baby. Green chili. Oh, yeah. Green chili.

And chili con carne. Now, this movie, I watched a movie last night, the new movie. I think we should talk about it a little bit because that's why you're here. Now, let me just, let me make sure I understand. Like, maybe I'm wrong and I'm not trying to be diminishing in any way. But is it a movie about a guy who who might have seen The Matrix, who has a nervous breakdown after his divorce and then eventually wakes up? Mark, you got it perfectly right. Perfectly right.

Because the movie is designed to be a different movie, according to the expectator. You're right. Perfectly right. Because the movie is designed to be a different movie according to the spectator. He talked about this to us in great length. That's what he wanted to do. A movie, kind of like interactive movie

because, and you know, for the performance, you had to do a performance that would work in in in the different versions right well i mean i thought that was kind of amazing that the two of you how much you committed and it was and you made it work like in the like because it's arguable like i don't want to you know it's hard not to i don't want to give away the movie but whether or not you're real or not you know whatever was going on around the crystals you know it was like drug addicts right so you guys have his main his main theme it's drug addiction yes two themes that for him were very important

that we hit all those marks and it was either a movie where there is a bliss world where everything is perfect and beautiful and people have lost the appreciation and everything is just common for them. Yeah. So a scientist, which is me, creates different worlds in a simulation where people can go and experience a little, how do you say an ugly world yeah reality horrible reality reality so that you can come back and appreciate the reality that you have sort of what happened right now in corona you know we thought we were living in a terrible world until they looked us down and all of a sudden you say wait a minute it was nice to see a friend and hug him. It was nice, you know, to know if the person talking to you hates you or likes you or is smiling or has bad teeth.

Right. And so that's one version. And the other version is it's a movie about addiction that was very important for him that it was not judgmental. And we could take kind of like a trip into when you're inside of it yeah that's your reality right right and it takes you over yeah i thought it was an interesting way to do it because there are definitely moments with the two of you like especially that moment where you know he disappears and you're like where were you

you know like you know that it became clear to me that what we're seeing is that whether or not your character is reality or not, whatever they're going through is just flat out horrible drug addiction. It's addiction. Yeah. Thank you. And so I'm so excited you brought this up, this scene. I'm going to tell you why, because you're also an actor and you're going to appreciate this. Okay.

So for this scene, he wanted for me not to have just some anxiety attack. Right. Yes, and some emotional breakdown. Right. I have to have the need for the drugs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The need for him, because that's another kind of drugs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The need for him, because that's another kind of addiction. Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

The fear of being alone. Oh. Whether it's losing your soulmate. Right. That you're losing it to another reality. Yeah. Or whether it's losing your partner that you do the drugs with. Right.

And here comes the most interesting challenge. My character believes that all these emotions are not real. Yeah. So as an actor, I have to play all that, but come in and out because I'm trying to convince myself that what is wrong, I shouldn't be feeling this because I know it's not real. He's dragging me to him.

But wait a minute. Why did they take? So I had to play the drug addict, the son in this same scene. Yeah, it was good. If you do it to not real, then the audience don't go with it. Right. And if you do it just about one thing, then the audience don't feel the need for the drug and for him as a drug or the desperation that you're losing your soulmate to another reality that

you created and it's your fault right i thought i thought you did a great job because like i had that moment you know i've got everybody's got a past and we've all dealt with different types of people in our lives but that moment where you're, you're just like, where were you like that screaming? Where were you? And like, I thought it was chilling because, you know, I've been in some bad relationships in my life. And somebody else is going to say she's over the top. No, I've seen this happen. Yes. No, I, I, that's true. I i seen it happen and i was sort of amazed that you know that owen i guess because of you know his history too you guys played this very realistically and i realized as an actor it must have been challenging because of the nature of how the

reality in the movie was shifting but but when you guys are in it and connecting around the crystals like it felt very genuine to me yes and then oh i mean if you play if you're gonna examine it from an addiction point of view you know there's so many justifications around it yeah oh yeah exactly exactly and all the justifications you're making are the justifications of just regular desperate drug addiction. But in the context of this other reality, her, you know, her mental illness. The scientists talking. Yeah, it's crazy. The obsessive compulsive nature of it, like so many for you, so many for me. Oh, my God, we don't have enough. You never have enough when you're an addict.

No. Yeah. Tell me about it or food or anything. OK. Yeah. So but scientifically, maybe you really don't have enough when you're an addict no yeah tell me about it or food or anything okay yeah so but scientifically maybe you really don't have enough right right right oh i see what you're saying sophisticated if you really examine the film it's very unique it's different it's definitely different i didn't know what to do with it for about uh half of the movie like i was like what is it is this going to be stupid what are we doing here and then i started to piece together you know intellectually you know what what you know what the tells were in terms of like is this real is it not real you know and that like because what the scene where you know you you guys are in the in the utopia you know and then you you say like don't you remember what you invented and you pull out this thing and

i'm like oh my god that that that that's something a child would invent you know like it's not you know it's not a real invention right so so like i started to think in terms of like is this just going on in his head so it does play games with you you know well and also the justification for that was that i was the real scientist and he was just kind of like a dude that was not yeah just sitting there smoking the same level he was just a nice guy you know right right yeah yeah yeah this woman which is a lot to take it's complicated huh and she tries to make the most of it in a relationship but you're brilliant Luke don't you remember yeah and it's the silliest thing yeah yeah but it's kind of cool at the

same time oh yeah it was cool but it was sort of like is this possibly you know part of his imagination or his hallucination always even me i can't right right i probably never existed yeah i have a hard time with with uh with fantasy and science fiction but i i stayed with it and i and i and i uh i locked in and i i took it for what it was it was good it was good because i it. Yeah, I have a hard time with fantasy and science fiction, but I stayed with it and I locked in and I took it for what it was. And it was good. It was good because I can identify with addiction. However, I will tell you this, that is also very interesting. This science fiction film has so many parallels to a reality we're living today. I think that's true the most important one is that without going to a different dimension or a parallel reality in a different dimension we're living in a world where different bubbles

of people yes are living in different realities yeah scary for each one of them it's completely real right and when you hear them talk even friends that you thought you understood how they thought for years they start talking about things that sound like sci-fi and it makes completely sense to them yeah and then the scariest part about that reality that we're living in is that if you hear it too much you'll start going like well maybe i don't know well exact but that's the film the film is reflecting they're living we're living into names yeah many metaphors and but the beauty is that at least my character learns to be selfless enough that even though she has to sacrifice

something very important, which I won't say why, she learns to accept and to respect that different people get to choose their realities. Right. Yeah, but like in the world we're living in right now, that's difficult because, you know know a line has to be drawn because some of those realities are threatening you know the world we live in right but for them your reality is threatening the world

they're living in i know but at some point selma we've got to call a crazy person a crazy person right but they are different pockets of crazy you know collectiveness collective craziness in different pockets yeah and they're thinking the same thing about yours and mine i know but but they're wrong is what i'm saying but that's they're saying you're wrong yeah but there. Yeah, but there has to be some, there has to be some basic reality, don't you think? That's what I thought. But you talk to them and it's really basic reality. There is a lot of people. And I'll tell you what, technology plays a big part because.

Of course. Like I have a friend who thinks the world is, it's not round. Stop it. He's still your friend? Yes, because he's been my friend forever, and I'm not going to stop. We have to stop judging. No, you don't.

Not if a person thinks that the world is flat. You can judge that. I have now like a year of discussions about it. A year of discussions you've had. One of the things, yes, I stop now, but one of the things that, by the way, they laugh

at us, they think we're so naive. And it is impossible. And they say, I can show you in the internet how many scientists have proved it and how many pilots have seen it that and it's a conspiracy against the whole world and and i go i'm sorry there is one place where the world stopped

separating in conspiracy and that's economics and and i said it would cost too much money to make to pay all the pilots of all the different countries to say the same lie. Yeah. This is impossible. Yeah. And we can go on and on and on and on and on. And I'm telling you this, but there's many other conspiracies. But they think that we're naive.

I mean, think about religions. I know. And this is like so important for everyone. Those are the original conspiracy theories. And they contradict with each other so we learn to live with our religions respecting the well-being

of everybody and this is where we need to find and just respect the beliefs and if you're from one religion from one you were little. I agree with you but but see like you know you have beliefs here but then you know if we're going to let people and indulge them and hey man you know you have the right to believe whatever you want to believe but we have to accept science okay so you can believe right i believe in science good but it's not so simple, my friend, because all the religions, if you go through science, none of them are right.

Exactly. That's fine with me. It gets worse because now there's some scientists that are contradicting scientists. Right. So they're the dangerous ones. I know. Okay. But they think that the other scientists. Right. So they're the dangerous ones. I know. Okay. But they think that the other scientists are the dangerous ones.

But they're wrong. They're wrong. Okay. Okay. You had Mr. Science and you had Bill Nye in the movie. Yeah. Yeah. Did you enjoy hanging out with him?

Oh, yes. I enjoy hanging out with him? Oh, yes. I enjoy hanging out with him, but you know what I enjoy? I enjoy how much he enjoyed, you know, being there and acting. Yeah. So, now, did you find, like, what was that great movie that you were in, Beatrice at Dinner? Oh,

thank you for watching that. That was great. You were great in that. did that was great you were great in that that and that was really kind of an exploration of you know class and you know like uh all of the all the good stuff and it you know and it was really kind of a very surprising ending did you feel like um why now who made that movie what makes you take a movie like that just because the character is so great oh it's funny you you're talking about two movies that mike uh miguel arteta directed that mike white wrote it right yeah and i think they're genius yeah um they did a good girl together yes together and uh they're friends. They're my friends.

We tried to do a movie with Miguel a long time ago about two lesbian women raising a child. Yeah. And they said, no, no, too risque. Julianne Moore was going to be my wife, but not wife because it was... Didn't they make that movie? The movie never got done because it was so ahead of its time. It never happened.

Wasn't Annette Bening and I thought Julianne Moore and Annette Bening, didn't they do a movie like that with Mark Ruffalo? Anyways, go ahead. Yes, years later a different one. Right. When then it was okay to make it. Right. And then I actually hired

him in a show I produced called Ugly Betty. And I've always been a fan of Mike. And then one day they came to my house and Mike said, I have an idea for a movie. I want to spend a little time with you because I want to write something for you. And I was 49 at the time. I was about to be 49 like a week before they came to my house. We spent many hours. He talked to me.

I said, what is it about? And he said, I'm not going to tell you, but what do I play? But do I have a good role? I don't care, but I don't care. I'll do anything you want because I really respect. Yeah. And they're friends. And he said, it's a lead.

And then he hadn't started writing anything. And a week later, I got an email from him saying happy birthday with the entire script. In one week, he wrote it. 10 days maximum. And I would have done anything with them just because sometimes you just... Look, these are two movies,

and it's so interesting that you brought that one up, would have done anything with them just because sometimes you just look these are two movies and it's so interesting that you brought that one up that i was so free because i didn't care if they were good or bad at the end i didn't care if people saw it or like them right i wanted to explore the character in a specific way and have the freedom to make mistakes and go there and do my best and try something different yes and not your usual go-to things yes as actors sometimes they start working and they become your worst enemy right what you're expected what people think you do like they what you do you keep doing it i mean how many actors that you've been watching for a long time you say oh my god it's kind of the same thing but even if it's not it's like

what works you know right right sure yeah for them so you would so that you i i like to always continue to learn and grow and change and so i i i loved it i thought it was challenging challenging for the brain challenging in many ways and uh also when we were shooting it i was not allowed to move my hands or my face and the camera is on my face right here the entire time and on the second day i said no one's gonna to like this film. Everybody's going to be so boring looking at my face. And then when I saw the movie, it was kind of moving, but even without me trying to, and I had to train myself not to think about not moving it also,

not doing anything, doing it very little. That must have been hard. So that it didn't distract me. Yeah. And as you can see i'm yeah yeah and you know what once you get into the character then that's the character then that it takes over the character yeah so so so these two movies like that one and this one you know were challenging because like you get like i i can see that like in this new one in bliss like

you get pretty raw you get pretty raw. You get pretty raw. It's not caring. Like I'm just going to give it my, give it it all. Not think about it. Not think about it. If they're going to like it, what they're going to think, you know, if they're going to destroy my career, if they're going to criticize my performance, I'm just going to do what the director wants.

I just want to please this director because he deserves it. Cause he's has a vision. A lot of times i work with directors they don't have a vision they're just right and they just want you to do it you know do the salma hayek thing just do the thing you do well i mean but you've done a lot even like that move like all you know looking back on like freda i mean that must have taught you everything about you know willingness to take chances chances and also willingness to put yourself out there and willingness to be outspoken in what you do.

So you've sort of had that in your mind all along. But it was the first one. Yeah. I didn't get a chance to do that. And that's because I produced it. Right. And I controlled it. Yeah.

And it was my dream. And my dream was very specific. Right. And I controlled it. Yeah. And it was my dream. And my dream was very specific. Yeah. I could have done it with a different director, would have been a different film. I had a very clear vision of what film I wanted to make and why. And also I understood the character very, very well. I had been researching her for so many years.

Yeah. I don't think people like, I remember, I don't know that I fully understood the importance of of her in in mexico like i can't even like fathom you know how important she was to you growing up it wasn't that important to mexico at that time oh really and by the way when she was alive people diminish her work right right because she was in the shadow of Diego. Yes. And there was a movement, the muralist movement, where all the great minds around the world and artists, because there were a lot of artists from other parts of the world. And they were painting in the walls of Mexico, a political interpretation of reality. Yes.

And she was making little strange portraits. It was not a cool thing to do. Are you glad that you stuck, you know, it's like in your story, are you still friends with Robert Rodriguez? Yes. Yeah. I talked to him years ago. And that guy, he's a character and he's got a great vision, that guy, huh?

Yes, yes. And my God, I learned so much. I was very close to him and his wife at the time. They were kind of my family. Yeah. And they had a lot of children. Yeah. And it was very funny because she was great.

But every time she gave birth, at the beginning once they didn't have a nanny yeah she was exhausted from the birth so i was the nurse of the babies i would call me and let her rest and take the babies yeah and i would sit with the baby in front of the editing machine with uh robert rodriguez yeah And my God, I learned a lot. I love editing. I love editing. That's where it all happens, right? I love editing.

It's fascinating. When are you going to direct again? I am going to direct soon. Yeah? Hopefully. Hopefully. You got a plan? You got a project?

I got a project. Yeah. I got a project that I've been thinking about for 17 years 17 years just sitting there in your head and you can't talk about it or else it'll ruin it right no i can talk about it a little bit i don't know if it's gonna get me um not sitting just there you know it's very ambitious yeah it's very complicated it's very expensive it's technical it's commercial but it's technical yeah like there was some things that i'm glad i didn't do it before because the technology is so much better to do it now yeah i'm gonna see if anybody trusts me with

the money soon i have the script i wrote it you wrote the whole thing? Yeah. And it's your idea? It's not based on a novel or anything? No. What's it about? Too soon. Too soon. Please invite me back. No, I will.

Well, here's a question that just came up. And, you know, obviously it's something you've talked about before. And obviously, you know, it's heavy stuff. But I'm curious because I found myself asking the question yesterday because Evan Rachel Wood, you know, came out with, you know, with her experience with Marilyn Manson. And, you know, I'm happy that she spoke out. But there was that question in my head, which was like, why does it take so long? which was like, why does it take so long? And then when I was getting ready to talk to you and I saw you address that,

that there's something that women living in this business and living in this world that they've been taught to accept and try to live with. But how do you answer that question? Why do you think it takes so long to talk, to speak out? First of all, it depends on the type of abuse. But normally, it takes you sometimes time to accept it to yourself that there was abuse and the level of abuse. Right. Because you have it framed in a different way.

There's part of the brain that thinks, like, I just have to get through it, or I just have to deal with it, right? Right, right. But there's so much to this. Deal with it, or is it once it's once, it happens once or twice, and you didn't get out,

where there's a whole psychological study, and you didn't get out, there's a whole psychological study about why you don't get out because there's a process of first they break your self-esteem. They create also a codependency. Yes, codependency. Then they keep breaking you psychologically and emotionally so it's done in a way that the abuser also kind of instinctively knows what they're doing normally they come from abuse so that it's a whole thing so it's hard to get out now you're ashamed that you don't get out so you you have to say, it's not really abuse.

Or I can't deal with it. Rationalize. And finally you get out and you say, I got out, I'm not a victim. Right. And you don't want people to identify you as a victim. You got out.

You survived it and you got out. You know, and why talk about it? It's my business. You know? Right, right, right. And then, like, I wrote something for the New York Times of a situation I lived with Harvey Weinstein.

Yes, yeah. And I didn't have a relationship with Harvey Weinstein. Let me clarify that. I had a working relationship with Harvey Weinstein that was abusive in many ways. He didn't get away with what he wanted to get away. I have to clarify this. The thing is that it was traumatizing and and i i actually was very smart for the five years in trying to get frida done on how i handled it because i wouldn't even let him see any weakness i i was very very strong but

afterwards when i would go home sometimes I'd be depressed for weeks. Yeah. From that encounter that he probably. However, I survived it. I didn't do anything with him that I, you know, I didn't do anything with him. I got the movie made against his will. I was clever enough to corner him legally to make a film he didn't want to make because he was not getting what he wanted out of me for doing the movie.

Right. And he still had to do it. He made my life miserable while we were shooting it. And I came out of it and I said, I won. I beat him at his game yeah I'm not a victim I healed I'm a I'm a fighter I'm strong when everybody started coming out with the stories I realized I healed only one part because I had no idea all these women were going through. And it's almost like just hearing them going through it that I was going through it again. And I started spiraling down again.

So I really actually didn't completely heal it. Right. And until I wrote that piece that it took me a while to get it down into paper. And I said, what's the point already? Everybody else talk. But I also had something to say that people were not mentioning that it's not only for women.

It was not just the sexual. It's the mental abuse within work of the bully. And he abused a lot of men too. So anyway, that really healed it. And it healed it because in my case, it came out as a part of many women, like an army of women standing together. So that's what healed me. So why you wait so long? Because you push it on your subconscious. you don't want to think about it

and then something happens in your life that you say oh my god it was worse than i thought yes right it was so much worse than i thought and you you think it's fair to yourself to acknowledge it and talk about it but for for everybody, it's different. It takes time. It's trauma. And also, I think what it speaks to, and you spoke to it a bit in the New York Times article, and I know this is going back a bit, but this method of working around men in the industry and around men in general has been in place forever. I guess people are brought up, women are brought up to believe this is the way this works and men are brought up to believe that this is the way it works and that it's okay yes they did were too uh-huh you know right it's like it's wrong but you should do it anyway because you can and and it's terrible do you have empathy for them i have empathy for everyone that's that's good did you always and i believe in second chances

yes but i also believe in consequences that makes sense i believe in second chances yes but i also believe in consequences that makes sense i believe in consequences so that you can really deserve a second chance yes and you can really understand the balance of what's wrong and right and good and bad and real and not real right right so you like because there is a sort of like, you know, the momentum of the way things sort of pick up. I think a lot of times another reason that people don't speak out is because have a woman guest there's going to be a whole army of frustrated angry weird little men who are going to make shitty comments and you know i right so i imagine after a certain point it's like the decision also hinges on like do i want to deal with that shit do you know what i mean right you know they're going to say why do you have empathy it's not that i say oh poor thing that's not what say, why do you have empathy? It's not that I say, oh, poor thing. That's not what I mean. But I do have empathy, for example, for their families, for their children. And how I can understand that they're going through a hard time, but they deserve it.

Right. Because they're leaving the consequences. Right. But I feel sad for the whole thing altogether. There is my empathy. I wish he hadn't done it. I wish his family didn't have to go through it. I wish the victim didn't have to go through it. I don't just think, oh, he's a horrible person. Nobody's only one thing. There's other aspects of every human being i know isn't that interesting that we live in an age where because of clickbait and other things everybody there's this there's this force in in culture that makes wants to make people one thing and and if you don't like get on board with the one thing and you still have empathy or you still respect the other parts of that person you're some kind of uh're some kind of monster just as bad as them.

You know what I mean? But people are complicated. And let me use an example. Of course, I'm going to get into trouble again here. Hilaria Baldwin. Do you know any controversy about... I know that story. What do you make of it?

Why are they going after this woman? What is the, this, why are they going after this wonderful girl? Lovely mother, great wife. I mean, Alec has never been better. Yeah. Alec, you know, he, she makes him, why are they going after this woman? She's been going to Spain since she's six months old. Yeah. Alec, you know, she makes him. Why are they going after this woman? She's been going to Spain since she's six months old. Yeah.

Yes. She was born in Boston. I knew she was born in Boston. She told me she was born in Boston. So it is her story. So what happens within the story are different interpretations. Let's say that what happens if she identifies with that if she identifies right right who is she hurting well that's i thought that too when i like because

people wanted to make it seem like it was some sort of scam and i'm like what kind of scam she obviously identifies more strongly and feels better you know you know identifying with the part of her that that respects her her sp Spanish background in terms of living there. And her parents are still living there. Yeah. You know, the kids are speaking Spanish. They go to Bailiolos. Who is she hurting?

She's not selling tapas in the corner. You know, she's not an actress pretending to getting the roles of the actors that are spanish she's hurting no one why are they so mean to this person and so and some friends say to me she's appropriating our culture how is she appropriate why are you not flattered exactly she identifies with our culture now we have to think in terms of i don't i mean why not why do we go after these people of all the lying on on the you know last years in our life that have caused a lot of damage like big lies and not just in the last years starting from the chemical weapons yeah that we never found and we went to war for right right but let's go after hillary and i'm not just so that not go to the typical examples

let's go after this girl why yeah nice girl yeah and you've known alec for a long time and you work with alec and you know i'm sure you he'm sure you probably talked to him through this, and you empathize. I didn't, Mark, because I didn't want to call. I don't even know exactly what it is. I didn't want to call and feed into the thing or, oh, I'm so sorry. I thought it was going to go away really fast because it's so ridiculous, you know? Right. But yes, women, normally we are targeted very strongly, sometimes for really silly things.

Yeah. And you think that is just basic misogyny, just basic, you know, male anger? I mean, I really don't, see, I don't have it in me to think that way, but it seems reactively true that our voice must have been very threatening that it is uncomfortable. It's been uncomfortable through history to let us have a voice. That's why we didn't have the vote forever. Yes. The expectations for women are so high. I grew up Catholic.

And you have to imagine that when you read that Bible, the two most significant women are the virgin and the whore. Right. Okay? Yeah. In order to be the most beautiful thing in the world, which is a mother, you can't live up to that virgin

who didn't have intercourse to have the children. We're never going to live up to that. Right. Okay? Right. The one woman that did have the intercourse was the whore. Yeah. the whore yeah and so for men it's like what do we are supposed to expect for women it we there are such high expectations of us today which we're living in the modern world and we say, no, we want equal pay. Now, you have to think that you have to work twice as hard

and be twice as good to get half the pay. At the same time, you're expected to spend all that time trying to prove yourself in the workplace, but you're still expected to spend the time with your kids and your husband and be a good mother and be on top of the school, which now sends you 3000 emails and have 1000 activities. But that's kind of your job, too. Right. Not to mention the house has to be in perfect conditions. You have to be in a good mood and nice and you have you cannot age. You have to be hot on top of it.

Yeah. It's a lot. That's a lot. Selma. And God forbid you make a mistake when you talk. Yeah. It's a lot of pressure. Well,

yeah. And that was the thing, like, you know, the weird thing about reading, I read a piece about you in, uh, when you made the,

uh, when you directed that, the, the children's film. The Maldonado Miracle. Yeah, yeah. But there's this moment where, like what you're saying, all the things you're saying about women right now, is that Harvey Weinstein shamelessly called you and the director of Frida,

I forget her name, what's her name? Oh, yeah, Julie Tamer, Ball Busters. Right, but he had no shame about that. But that in and of itself is minimizing considering the amazing amount of work and talent and effort and and proficiency that was going into what you were doing the amount of money i made him right and he just like he said that like it's it's okay to say that to minimize like that's that thing to put you in that box mark i didn't feel minimized no i know redeemed yes i bust your balls yeah you needed to have your balls busted

yeah julie and i were like yeah yeah we did not we did not feel insulted yeah we did not feel insulted well you do you feel like you know now do you feel in your life, you know, and in your work, do you feel like there is a shift happening? Absolutely, lately. But I'll tell you, when I did Frida, it came out, I did not get one role that was different than the other sexy, silly roles that I was getting that had no need to act in. Nothing changed. Right. Nothing changed. Nominated for an Oscar, nothing changed.

And then that's why I directed that film. My agent told me, we have to be careful because directors don't like women to direct, actresses to direct. They're very, you know, protective. I won an Emmy for Best Director and I didn't work for three years. And I didn't even go to pick it up.

I didn't even, there was no press about it. There was very little press about it. Why do you think that is? How much do you... I didn't work for three years. She told me. Is it racial? Or is it... They don't want somebody in the set that might know look it was really when i was in my 30s

i i was pretty much the only woman that had successfully produced because i also did a very good hit show television and film many academy awards and i had directed and i had successful career as an actress yes and i was an activist yeah nobody ever wrote about it there was no american and by the way i was mexican arab there was no other american that had done that either yeah jodie foster had directed but she never had a a tv show on network television that she produced and and and there was like two three of us yeah this is before Angelina, who is amazing, and I think she's a tremendous director. This is before she directed.

This is before all of these. And nobody even would write about it. Huh. They were still looking at me like, oh, the sexy Mexican chiquitina. Yeah, so that's the old system still in place, really. They didn't want to see me as anything else. And now you feel it's a little different?

Now it's different. And it's a lot different. And it changed really fast. And of course, there's a lot more to change. We got to take all the wins. We got to acknowledge them and feel them. And I'll tell you, it's really funny how life works because I wrote that piece and I had my film and I was insecure about directing

it and writing it. It's a very difficult film to write. And I kind of wrote something and I was nervous. And then I wrote this piece and it was in the New York Times and it became the number one article in the New York Times for the year. And then they chose it as a small piece, as a small group of articles to go for the Pulitzer Prize and we won. And they used to call my manager and say, who wrote that for her? Who wrote that for her? And I wrote wrote all by

myself and so i said you know what i can write and then i went and worked on the script and i sent it around and turns out i can really write and if i didn't have all of that i would have never known because they put so much insecurity on you. Right. That it's hard to find it. Right. You try to fit into their expectations. Or you start believing maybe that you're.

Right. That that's what you are. That you have those limitations. Did you go pick up your Pulitzer? No, no. It's for the New York Times. Oh, okay. Good.

My piece was a part of it. That's good. I have a percentage. Well, I mean, I think you do amazing work, and it sounds like, you know, personally, the growth that you experience has sort of spread out because of your voice into a more cultural momentum, which is kind of an amazing thing to be part of. Yeah, but I survived long enough to be a part of it. Yes. Well, you know what? You're not a broken person.

No. And you speak for those people that can't speak, you know. And you know what? I'm not that angry either. That's good. That'll kill you. I think that's what made me survive. Yeah. Yeah. And and also i think good

parents you must have had good parents yeah yeah i do i do they built you properly yes yes and i also built myself properly yes both it's a nice combination it's a nice combination. It's a nice combination. I'm sure you had good parents or not good parents, but who built you? A lot of trial and error is what built me. You built yourself. Right, right. You keep getting up and you don't fall into a hole. You know what's the difference between a winner and a loser? What?

How long it takes you to get up. I like that. We all up. I like that. Real Paul. I like that. It was great talking to you. Great talking to you, Mark. All right. You take care, okay?

Bye. There you go. She's the, isn't it nice to listen to Salma Hayek? The movie is Bliss with Owen Wilson, which is now streaming on Amazon prime. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. guitar solo I don't know. Boomer lives A monkey In the fonda Cat angels everywhere It's a night for the whole family.

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