WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1211 - Christopher Lloyd

Episode Date: March 22, 2021

Christopher Lloyd has a career spanning more than 60 years on stage, TV and film. But Marc was enamored with stories about the first movie Christopher ever made, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest. Christopher tells Marc about the unique audition process, how they slept overnight in the institution, what it was like working with his idol at the time, Jack Nicholson, and more. They also talk about the first movie Christopher almost made, shooting lots of guns in the new movie Nobody, and what he considers to be the true legacy of Back to the Future.  Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck buddies? What the fucksters? What the fuck Knicks? How are you? What's up? It's Mark.

Hello? Hi, it's Mark. Hello? Hello? Is anyone there? Hi. Can you hear me? It's Mark. Hold on, maybe it's muted or something. Now, can you hear me? Hey, what's going on? Are you okay? I didn't see you either. Is the mute on?

Turn your video on. Is it video? I didn't see you either. Is the mute on? Turn your video on. Is it video? This isn't video. This is audio. That's why you can't see me. Hello? Can you hear me? How's it going, you guys?

You all right? I don't know what that was. That was a short performance piece called Can You Hear Me that I wrote this morning. I wrote it in real time. Did it feel like that? It felt pretty scripted, though, didn't it? Are you okay? I'm okay.

I feel okay. I'm going to talk to Christopher Lloyd today. Now, of course, we all know him from Back to the Future and Taxi, but Christopher Lloyd has been working consistently in theater, TV, and film for 60 years. Now, I don't know. I don't prioritize Taxi. I don't prioritize back to the future for some reason i got hung up in a lot of the early stuff particularly he played tabor and one flew over the cuckoo's nest in an unforgettable role as one of the uh patients at the loony house at the sorry at the mental hospital at the loony bin at the nut house at the cuckoo shack at the mental institution and i got off on

that i guess start you know i don't know you know me what are we gonna talk about that sounds good i don't want there's some true evil in this fucking country there's some true racist evil and i don't i didn't want to sound like i did not focus enough on those horrendous racially based killings of asian women and the horrendous targeting of asians here in america in general it's awful and i had dreams man there's just an awful contingent within this country that's very scary and obviously what the asians have been going through for years since since they first got here is awful and it's more awful now i had a dream got here is awful and it's more awful now i had a dream that i was in a car handcuffed and there were nazis driving it but they weren't nazi nazis they were like they look like uh hipster nazis i just knew they were nazis you know like um salvage denim naz. They look like handmade belt Nazis. You know, waxed beard Nazis.

Trucker cap Nazis. Kind of guys that might wear some white boots. And a handcrafted t-shirt. Maybe a Filson jacket Nazis. Guys that look like they might be in a a comforting semi-folk outfit nazis and i remember i was in the car and i was uh handcuffed with sitting sideways in the back seat behind the driver and i just noticed a guy in the passenger seat with his waxed beard and long hair.

Was disinfecting his hands. Because he was going to punch me in the face. And I couldn't understand what he was doing. Was he putting alcohol on his hands? It would hurt me more or protecting himself. I don't know what that detail was about it was a dream and i remember saying like look like i know i know i'm a jew but you don't have to do this and he's like putting this stuff on his hands and he's kind of hitting one

into the other with that smacky sound you know that that that little smacky sound. I'm like, you don't have to do this. And he said, hey, man, I'm not going to do it. The South is going to do it. And we just kept driving. That was a dream. I don't want any emails about judging the South. That was in my dream. Then I had some other dream about some, you know, a woman that I seemed to be in a relationship with,

but I had no idea who she was. And I knew she was mad at me and leaving me, but I don't, I don't in it. I was sort of like, we're breaking up. I don't even know who you are. I don't know what that means either. And there was another dream where I kept asking this guy not to sue me. I don't know what I don't know about what I don't know what i don't about what i don't know this happened in quick succession you know when you wake up and pee and you come back oh where are we now um i guess i'm in a car with nazis then you wake up and pee and you come back and like what's happening now this woman wants to divorce and i have no idea who she is wake up and pee and come back why why does ned baity want to sue me?

Why wouldn't he just not do it? I keep telling, I keep saying, please, you don't have to do this. And it was Ned Beatty, a younger Ned Beatty. I have some of the great character actors in my dreams. You know, those guys work, man. They show up everywhere, the great character actors. Ned Beatty making an appearance as the i believe the

attorney uh who was uh whose client was suing me and he did a great job he did a great job with the part hello yeah i can hear you hello hello um christopher lloyd's on the show today and i'd like to announce the uh i have a new roommate i'm in a new relationship um his name is sammy sammy red also uh aliases i think are going to be the samster sam the man sam sammy sam sam sammy sammy sammy boy sam Sammy is a six week and change old ginger kitten white face white chest kind of stripy not really red looks very panicked and very confused but my friend Kit brought him over he had to be removed from his mother with the other kittens in the litter for safety reasons. And he got about four weeks in on the nip with the bros and the sissies. Learned some tricks. Seems to be cleaning himself. Kit had him on the bottle for a while.

We got him eating the solid food. He started eating the solid food and the kibble. She brought him over. We got a tent. We got some blankets. Got a scratching post. Got a eating the solid food and the kibble. She brought him over. We got a tent. We got some blankets, got a scratching post, got a fake mouse, got a fake sardine, got a little tiger head thing. Set up the room, got boxes in the corners. Initially, the issue was, will he poop normal?

Can we get some normal kitten poop? So now I've got him on the kitten food. A little pumpkin mixed in, some probiotic. And he's going at it. He's coming along. Buster is... At the door. I've let him see each other a bit. Sammy doesn't seem to give a fuck buster's i don't it really strikes me what i'm getting from buster what i'm projecting onto buster what i'm feeling

like buster would be saying if he could is like why the fuck is that is that here but not like oh shit i'm in trouble not like i'm gonna thing, but like, why is this little fuck here? We had a good thing going, man. We finally got rid of the oldies and it was me and you, man. Me and you walking down the road of life together. And now you bring in this little fucker. What am I going to do?

I'm going to use him as a goddamn ball. I'm going to bat him around. I'm going to throw him up and down. I don't know. Buster's a mean fucker. So we'll see what happens. But the impression I got was that he's like, alright. He's not a threat to me, but he's obviously going to

be a time suck for you. Which means less time for me. And that's going to cause me a little anxiety. So I might have to beat up on it a little bit. I'm just saying. That's what's going to cause me a little anxiety so i might have to beat up on a little bit that's i'm just saying that's what's going to happen in the future that's all i'm just saying hi just saying i'm just letting them know what's up and i might pee on your shit so heads up i went to the

farmer's market with uh eliza swessinger's husband noah uh he's a chef and um he uh he's gotten in over there you know what that when you're a wholesaler, you're doing the business, get in a little early. But they're checking people. They're distancing. They're only letting a certain amount of people in. I hadn't been out into that farmer's market in Hollywood for years. And I got some stuff. And it was nice.

I don't even know why I'm telling you this. I guess I just wanted to tell you that I went out to the farmer's market and bought vegetables and was among the people. Everyone masked, everyone buying greens. I bought some fish at the fish guy. I got some oranges at the orange lady and some avocados at the also the orange lady. She't orange she sold oranges and avocados so i guess she was the orange and avocado lady talked to noah about some cooking tips and uh that's all hello hello hi hello is this on can you hear me so i gotta get rid of some apps So I got to get rid of some apps. Because now I got the Citizen app and I've got the thing that comes with the ring, that community. So now I'm getting it from all sides. Like Citizen's app, you get the police blotter report. Man with hat and butter knife spreading cream cheese on his arm on Glen Oaks.

I saw one from the Citizens app. Old woman sitting in sun. There was concern. She couldn't be trusted to enjoy the outdoors by herself. That someone ought to go over there and check on her and then this ring thing is even more crazy because there's a man in my yard police have been called then you know ring customer number four is it the same one from yesterday ring customer number 72 did you call the police ring Ring customer number 84. Didn't this happen to you two days ago? Ring customer number 72 again. Did you call the police?

Ring customer number nine. What kind of man? Not to be racially explicit, but size maybe? Ring customer number 72. Same guy from two days ago? Ring customer number 42. Did you call the police? And then the original complaint.

Oh, it's my husband again. I've got to stop calling the police so much. I don't need the distraction or do I? Seems like I'm entertained by it. Seems like I'm entertained by it. We're not going to do it. The South is going to do it. So look, Christopher Lloyd is in this new movie nobody with bob

odenkirk which i watched bob was good christopher was good it's one of those movies i don't really see these kind of movies but i liked it it's about the non-assuming guy that all of a sudden is just a fucking maniac for the for the good uh it's in theaters this friday march 26th and christopher's wife lisa was there when we uh we had this talk and uh and you'll hear her uh chime in a few times and that's uh this is it as i said before we covered one flew over the cuckoo's nest like it was a new film. This is me talking to Christopher. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence.

Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. It's a night for the whole family.

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March 9th at 5 p.m. in Rock City at torontorock.com. Floyd. Are you afraid you're going to fall asleep if you go far back? Yeah, I'll just take a rest. Reclining mode means it's time for nap. I'm almost there. Yeah?

I'm alive. No, you're very alive. Spry on it. I watched a movie last night. Running around with guns. That's good. I haven't done anything like that before. It was just, I i liked it i had fun

yeah oh really you'd never done what the the gunplay uh i've had a little gunplay here there but this this was hardcore kind of you know yeah i was into it yeah i mean when you when you approach something like that i mean what is it different than another role because it's sort of over the top and you sort of know that, so you can just go to town, right? I don't know. I was intrigued by the character. He was highly skilled, slick, dangerous motherfucker.

Yeah. Mostly because he just had a lot of cool. He was very smart. He knew how to handle the hardware and do little strange kind of stuff to entrap the victims, whoever they might be. And then he retires. He's getting a little old, you know,

to be a carry-on like that. And then his son gets in a pickle and I come out of my retirement and I have the last climax. Just go for it. What if this becomes a franchise?

You're going to have to do that guy again and again. I hope so. I hope I live long enough to do it again and again. I'm sure I figure I'll be here at least for one more shot if it happens. Like, you know, that backstory, though, like just the idea that you put that backstory together, was that something, you know, that because you've been acting a long time

and, you know, when you approach something like that, do you create a backstory or is that something a long time and you know when you approach something like that do you create a backstory or is that something a director brings to you i that's what i kind of i mean it was suggested in the script but it wasn't anything they gave me i just you know he comes out of retirement and he loves doing his stuff again where'd you you started in new york right yeah and where'd you grow up uh i was born in stanford connecticut and my folks always had an apartment in new york so i would constantly go back and forth and then as soon as i got a high school i went to drama school in new york when i was 19 i

think and i never left i was i stayed there until what was it 19085 and i moved to uh la and where'd you go to the drama school where'd you where'd you start acting oh the neighborhood playhouse school the theater and they had a phenomenal uh sandy meisner yeah he was he was the greatest uh and may made a total impression on me and what I learned from him. What kind of guy was he? Because I tried to give an impression to him because he was sort of like the American version of the method, correct?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, very much so. I mean, he had such poise, intelligence. He would have a three-hour acting class at the neighborhood playhouse in the morning, another three-hour in the afternoon, and then his professional class three hours at night. And that's a lot of time to be sitting in the chair watching people

get up and do their stuff. He never, ever lost focus. He'd be watching somebody doing their work, analyzing it, and then he'd give the precise, exact commentary on it. And he was always supportive. He didn't mess around, but he had an extraordinary sense of humor wit and he was very dignified it was a handsome kind of guy and and like what tools did like you when you when you approach acting even now like what stuff i mean obviously you know i've known this from talking to many actors and uh you know over and

over again that a lot of it is just, you know, how you just, you kind of cobble together your own system and you do what you do, but were there things that you learned from Meisner that you still are conscious of doing? Yes, I am. I mean, I don't think about it so much now. Back then I do a, being a player, One night, I couldn't go wrong. It's like I was in a groove. Next night, it's like

I'm wallowing around the stage, trying to get into it again. And Meisner taught me how to keep focused and how to get back in the groove and all that technique for that, which was based, a lot of people, a little perplexed.

It was a word, a repeating word. Oh, really? To somebody else, you know. I'd say, who are you? They'd say, who are you? And it changes the behavior as you go along. It may not get like a yelling match but what you he always say what you do depends on what the other does so you're always connected and attached and it pulls the emotions

along eventually as well when you get the sense of it and i mean that's probably i mean it's probably more consistent doing that in theater i imagine imagine once you make the jump to film, it's harder to hold on to that focus because, you know, you're shooting everything in pieces. Yeah. Yeah, but you're still, while the camera's rolling, you could use it. Yeah, yeah. You could use it in any context, really.

Yeah, just listen and stay present. Yeah, yeah. So you did how much? You did a lot of stage work initially, right yeah do you miss that i i i do but i i still go back and do some you know it's not like i got into movies and no more theater i keep it up there's always another play comes up and yeah i'm gonna do i'm gonna do King Lear this summer. Really? Where are you doing that? At the Berkshire Shakespeare Company.

You spent time in Massachusetts. Did you spend time there when you were a kid? Yes. I went to boarding school from the third to the eighth grade in West Newton, Massachusetts. In West Newton, Massachusetts. In West Newton, Massachusetts. Yeah. You're familiar with Massachusetts?

Sure. I started my comedy career in the small towns and villages of New England. And I lived in Massachusetts for several years. I lived in Boston, Somerville. I lived in Brookline, just shy of Newton. But I know Newton, Route 9. I did a lot of gigs down the Cape. There used to be a gig down in Yarmouth at a Chinese restaurant. I was all over New England. So what was your first play? Well, my first paying job in New York, because I did off, off, off, off, off Broadway all over the place.

I was going from one workshop to another, but at the same time, jobbing out to the Summer Stock and Regional Theater and all that. But the first play I did in New York, as I remember, the Chelsea Theatre Company, I think it was Robert Calfin was director. And it was Caspar, Casper, by Peter Hanke, I think,

an Australian playwright. And I got an O before it, and it just kind of threw the doors open. That was it? That's where it started? That's interesting. So at the beginning, you were probably doing, what years were this, in the 60s, mid-60s?

I got that play around 1972 or three. So when you were doing the off-off-Broadway stuff, you were running around doing summer stock, but you were doing all kinds of weird, kind of progressive theater shows down in the village and stuff, and then going and doing like Noel Coward in New Jersey?

It was a lot of sketchy situations. Yeah? Yeah, I remember because everybody situations. Yeah. Yeah. I remember because everybody worked. I was fortunate

that I didn't have to have a job to get through the day. But most actors who are struggling, they'd be working during the day and these workshops don't pay anything. Right.

Or sometimes rehearsals would be start at 12 or 1 a.m., because that's the only time everybody was available. Right. So there was a lot of that. Got pretty weird. Basements. Do you remember any strange sort of like experimental productions that you did? Oh, sort of.

I did a play called Hypatia III. Yeah. It was kind of a Romanesque thing with togas and shit. Yeah. It made no sense whatsoever. There was always more actors on stage than the scene in the audience. Yeah. And I was about to divorce my wife at the time the first one my next wife was

in the cast okay well it was a change of everything changing of the wives that the ceremony of the changing of the wives yes yeah not not least at least it came along later but so it was just a weird show huh yeah but it was kind of typical right right so you didn't have to work because you what you can't i guess you come from uh a family yeah i have a family you know they were kind of well off so don't you like i read somewhere that uh what is it that you know you can trace your relatives all the way back to the Mayflower. Yeah, I'm told that. I have never sat down and done my homework to see if it's really true. Right.

I think it was on the second Mayflower. I don't know. But back in the day. Back in the day. But your mom was from, I guess her family was part of the founding people of Texaco, huh? Yeah, yeah. My grandpa. Did you know him?

No, he died. I think he died the year I was born. Was he like a wildcatter? Was he out there with the drills or was he? I don't think so too much. Yeah. He went to school somewhere in eastern pennsylvania the college is out there and he met a guy who was already because pennsylvania was one of the first

places to get good going with oil yeah another guy from texas and the three of them collaborated texas and the three of them collaborated there you go texaco yeah and and you didn't have to work so interesting because i kind of have an inside awareness and knowledge of the beginning of the whole oil thing now it's fading out you know it's going which which is not a bad idea but now it's so that was like a interesting phenomenon that came and now it's going, which is not a bad idea. But that was like an interesting phenomenon that came and now it's going. Thank God. Yeah, I mean, maybe, I hope in the nick of time. It might be too late. Yes, I know.

We'll see. How did you, when did Cuckoo's Nest happen? How did that happen? That happened in 1973. Yeah, I think it was 1970 i don't know i i've been uh i wanted to do film but uh i just i didn't when i walked in an office for and meet people with a film i just felt you know because i i wasn't you know you know, what do you call it? Yeah, extroverted.

Yeah. You're not a song and dance man. You're a tall, intense gentleman. Yeah. You know, all I got was, thank you for coming. Weirdo, get out. weirdo get out so uh so i i figured i was it was getting to the point uh because i'd be set up nothing happening not even a nibble and i figured that you know some actors don't make the bridge from theater to film okay and then they i was doing a production of Macbeth at the downstairs theater at Lincoln Center.

Vivian Beaumont is at the theater down below, and with Christopher Walker was Macbeth. Oh, wow. And a few other characters. And John Simon referred to it as that swinish production of Macbeth. Was Walken, did he have the same intensity then? Yes, he did. And, you know, back then I was just getting to know him and he was very, you know, Christopher Walken. Yeah yeah but this is fucking

shakespeare you know i never said anything like that but um and i and we've worked together since and i love him i mean he he's an extraordinary uh character person so you're doing that? You're doing that show? I'm doing that. And I was kind of in a crazy mood. And they set me up. Kukuzes came to New York to cast. And this guy had been setting me up, setting me up to meet them. And I went up and auditioned.

The auditions consisted of Milos Forman sitting the way Nurse Ratched would sit. In a circle? Yeah, at a meeting. Myself and the other actors coming up to audition. We'd sit like that. And Milos Forman would sit in the middle and get conversation going, getting us going, you know. And that's how he decided whether or not we were going to do it. So then I got a letter, okay, I'm going to do it.

So that was – So that's wild. So Milos would have you – you'd sit in the semicircle or the circle, and then he'd rotate guys in and out during an improvised audition? Yeah, he may have. He may have, but he'd just feed you and get things going between us. And who was, do you remember, like, was DeVito in your audition? No. And did you have that character of Tabor right from the get-go?

Did you make decisions around how that guy would be? Well, I did whatever I did in the audition. And then when they said, you got it, I went and got Ken Kesey's novel and studied it. Had they done the stage play in New York already? Yeah. Danny DeVito was in the Off-Broadway production at the time.

Oh, he was. I know that originally it was, you know, Mike Douglas was trying to put it together as a vehicle for Kirk. Yeah. And I think maybe it was Kirk Douglas. I don't know if he was Broadway or Off-Broadway, but I know that Kirk Douglas did McMurphy. And I can't even imagine that. Yeah, I know. I think he did it on Broadway.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not sure of that. And nothing came of it, so he gave to uh his son he uh well his son produced it right yeah where'd you guys shoot that there was that shot in like uh in a coastal town was it shot in seattle or somewhere uh salem oregon right salem oregon had this this complex of buildings that included a prison statement and for the people who were a little bit mentally ill. And they had the third floor. When pharmaceutical drugs came in, they could leave the hospital and take care of themselves with various kind of drugs. As zombies, they could go out into the world and sleepwalk. We took over an entire floor, which had a game room and the bath and sleeping quarters,

all the stuff needed for the film. Did he make you sleep there? How deep did you guys get? We did sleep there sometimes because each of us had an assigned bed with a little table with a drawer to put your personal effects in or on.

And then at night they closed it up. So you were in a cage, locked. Oh, my God. Sometimes we did sleep there, but voluntarily, we were being punished. So the group, I mean, because it was quite a group. I mean, all the guys, it seemed, that were in that crew with you either went on to major acting roles or at least

character acting roles i mean brad durif has been around forever even like sydney lasik was he was great oh he's yeah i remember bill foreman would have to do a close-up on sydney lasik and he'd finish his lines and, and, you know, just let the camera run because he knows he's going to get gold. Well, you too. I mean that, that moment where, you know,

there's a, like, I can't imagine the process of shooting that. Okay. He must've shot, he must've shot a lot of silence with you guys because there's those scenes where you just sit in there and like, you know,

that moment where you don't realize that your foot's on fire. It's like, I mean, it's imprinted in my unconscious. I mean, like that moment where you're like, and you just lose your fucking mind. Right, right. Milos, you know, he defected from Czechoslovakia, already established a film career. defected from Czechoslovakia, already established a film career. But he told the story of being in the subway somewhere in Czechoslovakia late at night.

There were just two or three people waiting for the train. And there was a guy smoking. And he just kind of did that flip, flicked the cigarette butt, and it landed in a person's cuff. And Milo saw this, and eventually it kind of caught fire, and the guy went berserk. So he just figured that belongs here. Well, I'm glad he let the guy burn in order to get that idea. Yeah, yeah.

He didn't step in. He let the scene play out. Yeah, he's a creative person, he was. I've talked to Danny DeVito, but it's so interesting to see DeVito in that part because DeVito's such a sort of cantankerous, brash little man. And as Martini, he's the opposite. because DeVito is such a, a sort of like cantankerous brash little man. And, you know,

and, and, and as Martini, he's the opposite. He's like this weird kind of almost, you know, no boundary, amoeba like the vulnerability of that guy.

Yeah. You guys were doing some real acting there. And I think it was really, you know, and it seemed like, you know, certainly the Meisner stuff and that type of training was probably great for for for that particular movie you know because no because there was a naturalness to it that he was going for and even

Nicholson who I think was also uh I don't know where he trained but he was definitely an American like you know a methody kind of guy that there was a naturalness to that, to all of you guys. It was kind of a amazing. Well, uh, Milos insisted on that. I mean, if you did something too big or wasn't natural, like kind of art, he, no, no, no, no. And did you enjoy working with Jack? Oh, I loved it.

He was an idol of mine before Cuckoo's Nest. From what? Detail, five easy pieces, et cetera, new rider. You know, I just thought he was the cat's ass, you know, the best thing going. I remember the first day I walked on the set, and he was there talking to whatever.

I'm here with this guy, you know what I mean? And he was wonderful. He was just great. And he, you know, because most of us had scant experience in film. And he just, he'd help you out, do this, you know. He was just so generous. Oh, yeah.

I had a scene, the bath scene where Nicholson sprays everybody. Yeah. And I have a, I'm with William Redfield, bless him, playing a game. And I'm going, play the game, play the game. Oh, yeah. That scene. And Redfield was diagnosed with leukemia.

And so went to a hospital and everything. So that scene never got completed at that moment and there was I remember Saul's aunt who I really loved as a producer they were thinking what are we going to do pull the

plug or what are we going to do so they changed the schedule around in about three weeks william redfield came back or maybe less than that but he came back and so we got into the scene again and i could not find it i couldn't find my mojo so to speak i you know i just you know i was was feeling awkward. I'm trying not to show it. I wasn't willing. But Nicholson, during

a thing, just kind of walked up to me very casually and just sort of quietly told me something I wish I could remember. And it put me right there. Put me right where I needed to be. Just soft and quiet.

Got right in your head. He was very attentive to all of this. That's great, man. Because you work with him again, right, a couple years later. Going south. Going south. That's kind of a weird, funny movie. Belushi's in that and uh yeah and

danny yeah danny steenbergen that was mary steenbergen's first uh that was her big break that was her first film yeah i do believe yeah and nicholson had got her the gig she was like a waitress you know he uh i can't i've talked to her about it it was she loves jack i mean she she credits jack with getting her start. I did a Broadway musical before going south. And one night I'm doing this thing, and a stage manager comes back and says, Jack Nicholson is in the audience,

and he'd like to come back to your dressing room. So he came back. Meryl Streep was there in my dressing room. And a lot of Lenya. Ring a bell? The German actress? Oh, and the lady that Jack was going with. Angelica?

Angelica Houston. All crammed into my little dressing room. Angelica Houston all crammed into my little dressing room and before Nixle left he said I'm doing something this summer I'll send a script to you if you're

interested and it was Golden South what a sweetheart I love hearing those stories because he always looked like he was having a great time and nobody loved making movies more than that guy and it's nice to know he was having a great time and nobody loved making movies more than that guy. And it's nice to know he was a good guy. Great, yeah.

It's weird. I'm sort of fascinated with, I got to watch it again. Because I got it in my head, The Onion Field, as being a terrifying movie. And I know you were in that. But I almost watched it again this morning because I've been sort of curious about watching it because I know James Woods in it back before James Woods became this cultural monster.

He was just sort of an emotional monster in movie roles, but now he's sort of politically a pariah. But I do remember that being a fairly menacing movie. Yeah, yeah. Incredible story. I read the book. It's horrifying. You know, it's a real, real, it happened.

And, you know, I was a lawyer in jail, and I kind of set it up or whatever. I've got to see it again. What did you say? I haven't thought about it in years, and I remember being, I was really young. I'm obviously younger. I was terrified.

She was terrified. That's the same experience I had. I'm 57, so I remember seeing it when I probably shouldn't have seen it. Because my parents didn't know what R meant r meant oh so they would just take me if they couldn't get a babysitter i saw deliverance when i was 11 did not need that when did you move out to la i think it's 76 yeah 76 cuckoo Nest came out. I didn't have an agent, and Cuckoo's Nest came out, and I got a letter from an agent, the Bursch agency, to say that if I'm ever on the West Coast,

I'd like to have lunch or something. I packed up so fast and got in my little car. I drove from New York to St. Louis one day. One shot. One shot, yeah. I did that too. Isn't it weird, though, when you look back on that, Chris, about the sort of strange moments of panic and desperation at the beginning?

And now, years later, you realize that these guys, they're just like doofus executives that, you know, made us, you know, jump through these fucking hoops. I mean, I'm not bitter and I don't, and obviously I'm not you, but you know, when you look back on, you know, I remember one time I panicked because I had to get from, from New York to Los Angeles for a Fox meeting, you know, at the studio. And, you know, I drove cause I was moving there and everything was crazy. And then you get there and they don't give a shit. They don't know that you just turned your life upside down to be there. I guess so. I guess that's true at the beginning. I guess we never know. You don't want to be that guy. You know, he doesn't give a shit. It's like, no, I'm stuck in

St. Louis trying to make a meeting. So you ran out there to Gersh and that was your agency? You signed with them? Yeah. I mean, and I went out. I went out. All these people in New York gave me a list agents to check out. You know, I didn't know. So I went out there and he was one of the first agents I went up to see.

And I remember I got to his office. I didn't know L.A. or nothing. And they took me out to lunch. Another association. And we went to Joe Allen's for lunch. Beverly Hills.

Thunderbird Convertible. And I thought. They gave you the full treatment. Yeah. Yeah. And then I declined to sign. They asked me to sign.

I thought, this is an important thing. I got to go through this list first. You know. Oh, wow. Yeah. And then he gave me a job i wasn't signed yet he said this is a uh low budget film in santa fe new mexico what was it oh it was what was the name of it santa fe 17 i don't know something yeah yeah okay christopher walken and a canadian french canadian actress

for walking and a Canadian, French-Canadian actress who's kind of faded out. I don't know what happened to her, but she was, you know, and I got there five days ahead of time because I wanted to get, I had to ride a horse. I had to make up with wounds. I was a conquistador coming up from Mexico. And I was there five days and took in the scene. Yeah.

And the morning that I was to be first established on camera, I've been there five days to get everything ready, but I couldn't get anything out of the makeup department. They didn't give a shit. So I go to the makeup trailer to get the wig that I'm going to be wearing. Yeah. She got very testy. No, better than sure. It I'm going to be wearing. Yeah. She got very testy and got the wig and threw it at me. From there, I went, found the producer, director,

and I gave my notice. Christopher Walken called me up and said, Chris, what are you doing and all that? And I called Gersh. And the guy I spoke to, he wasn't letting me off the hook. He said, you're going to walk on your first, you know. And they had sent the contracts to me in Santa Fe. So I had the contract to sign.

I hadn't signed them yet. And I said to him, I got the contracts. What do you want me to do? He said, sign them and that that made me feel good that i could you know make my own decisions if there was something i didn't want to do and they put up with that you know did you did you do it in the movie no i won it's so funny that it was just it all hinged on a makeup lady and then there was a uh a rang of you know the head guy of the horses he wouldn't he wouldn't let me ride the horse i want to do and

i probably read much more than he had at that point but you know it was just yeah did you grow up riding horses yeah we had. I went to riding school. Oh, wow. All that stuff. I spent a summer on a ranch in Wyoming. I didn't realize that you worked with Jack another time in the postman, huh? Oh, yeah. Postman always rings twice.

Yeah. I have a little piece that occurs either before or during the credits when he's driving down the road and I'm hitchhiking. Or I'm driving and he's hitchhiking. I really don't remember. Then we go and he has that breakfast for us. That was it. It was very nice. It was a lot of fun.

Is he a guy you keep in touch with ever? I have. In fact, I was with Danny and somebody the other day. there's a lot of fun do you like is he a guy you keep in touch with ever i have an effect i was with danny and and somebody the other day and we all asked each other how do we talk to jack and none of us had so i don't know i don't know what's happening to him yeah yeah it's hard to be with the plague and everything you know you're used to seeing him at least you see him at the game and you're like okay he's there he's at the game he must be okay so how did uh because it seems like all that stuff about cuckoo's nest is like right there it's like those memories are so fresh because it was such a a profound kind of uh experience you know do you feel the same way about Taxi? Taxi? Yeah.

Taxi. It's funny because I came out from New York. I told Gersh, I don't want to do any sitcoms. Right. I had kind of a New York attitude that to do a sitcom is selling your soul. Yeah. A lot of guys felt that way. Dustin Hoffman felt that way. A lot of actors felt that way dustin hoffman felt that way a lot of actors felt that way yeah yeah so he would send me once a while up to just meet people even if you know

like starsky and hutch and some others i i don't remember what and then taxi you didn't do any episodic work you didn't do any bit parts what you know little parts in tv no not i have since but but not before taxi no oh they sent me up and um it worked out well what do you what what sold you on it why why why how why were you able to to adjust your your uh uh your sense of integrity? What sold you on it? Was it James Brooks? Who is he? I just sold out. That's all. Didn't take anything at all, huh? Yeah, no, I

got the script and I just something seemed to click. I looked at the part and I saw, you know, kind I felt I could do this. When you read it, what was it that got you that made you realize, this guy's got legs for me?

I don't remember exact words, but they described it well. And I felt I could do this. And not that I had any background in that area, but I felt I could do it. And I had a neighbor in Laurel Canyon who was cleaning out the bushes, and he found this jacket with a peace sign, Levi's jacket. I wore that into the audition.

And, oh, Levi's, you know. Yeah. I got in the frame of mind. And when I finished, I was going out the door and said, wear that Monday. That's what I wore. After the second year, somebody stole the jacket from god damn it but they you know we so it was some uh some old hippie garbage jacket from the canyon yeah the moral canyon this guy found it in the bushes yeah beaten and all that's funny thank god there was no body there.

Now, like, it seems like, you know, your character was, you know, extreme and over the top and intense. And, you know, and then you had Andy there, you know, doing his character, which is over the top and intense, but in a different way. Did you guys get along pretty well? We all got along. I mean, there were times when Andy would do something like be late or whatever. He did something that pissed off Tony Danza. Oh, yeah.

Tony Danza got a fire extinguisher, opened the door. Andy, especially, was that foam, one of those foam ones? He just went but that never got got bad because we loved doing the show we had great writers and we all clicked in our own funny ways yeah i worked with judd a bit he played my father for a few episodes on a show and i he's a sweet guy you know yeah yeah um we just of all the casts that i've been in taxi always keeps together we just we just did a a zoom uh the other day with mary lou and Kane and Tony and Judd. We're still in each other's lives and it's great.

That's nice. That's nice. You know, cause I always ask people that, you know, cause I, you know, as a fan of movies and TV, you know, it took after years of doing this and talking to you guys, you know, I always assume like it took a long time to break my, my idea that like I always assumed everyone hangs out afterwards, you know, but assume like it took a long time to break my my idea that like i always assume that everyone hangs out afterwards you know but they don't oh i i was stunned you know the cuckoo's nest was my first movie it was a 12 week a 12 week shoot and we all became comrades and nicholson whatever i remember the rap or the last part, the last week I saw on Cougar's Nest was the boat trip.

Yeah. You know, where we all escaped. Fishing trip, yeah. And then we wrapped it, and it was like, boom. Nothing. It was over. And it was like, oh. Heartbreaking.

Yeah. But that's nice that they, well, I mean, the TV is different because, I mean, you know, you're with those people for years. Yeah. Like a's nice that they, well, I mean, the TV is different because I mean, you know, you're with those people for years. Yeah. Like a family for Christ's sake. I know.

Yeah. And then, and then back to the future that, that became a, I mean, you know, I, that's,

it's like, you know, taxi was huge and your character was huge, but it seems like the back to the future thing, just put it all over the top. And that's who you're going to be for the, for the rest of time. Yes.

Yes. I know it tightens me a little bit, but I don't care because I still get other stuff to work on. Oh, no, no. I mean, I know, but was it like these things when you look back on them? Actually, I don't know. It's weird because you would have thought it's actually the opposite that i think about it because you know as reverend jim you know you had this you know you were typecasted by as that for a while but then back to the future

happened and you just became that guy and even as uncle fester i mean you're actually you actually you know you you you are always i see you as. I don't associate you with a role. All right. I don't even know why I said that, but I guess I just said it because, you know, you must be excited when something has legs enough to keep going. You know, it must be somewhat nice to re-engage with cast, even in a sequel, again, to do that kind of work.

Yeah. Well, that's a future resonated in a way with people more than anything else I've done, partially because so many generations of children, young people have grown up over the years. And some of them claim that Back to the Future was their life, you know, to look at. And that's a good feeling. And so many people who grew up on the movie became engineers and scientists and surgeons.

Oh, really? Yeah. And they all attributed to watching that film. So that's a good feeling. That's amazing. And you actually, I guess those fans, like, you know, the fans you have for like Star Trek as well, some of the Star Trek work you did,

they're very intelligent sweet sensitive nerdy people so i mean because you go to comic-con right ah yes i do and and is that fun for you do you is it it is fun when i when i first started it um a few years ago whenever i was like kind of tentatives you know but you get these people coming in who are glad to see you and want to see you and want to share their moments with you. And it's, you know, sometimes I wake up when I first started out. I wake up in the morning and say, oh, my God, I'm going to go sign autographs right now.

Yeah. I'd get there and I forget all that because it's just so interactive yeah it's great so now when do you uh like have you like coming back full circle here um do you know the play lear have you done lear before, yes. I've been in the production years ago three times, but now I'm doing it. I'm Lear. Before I was playing various

parts in it. Because that's one of those roles where it's sort of this weird gift that a certain type of actor at a certain age is either enabled to do. Yeah, well, I have some trepidations. Like what?

That I can pull it off. It's huge. not not just in terms of line but the depth of emotion that's required you know that you can't just uh yeah dance around yeah and so it's a big deal but it's such a great part and uh i know just something got into me that and i i never thought about it. When I was in the three productions years ago, I never thought to myself, boy, I want to play that part someday. I just didn't consider it, you know? And then about five years ago, I woke up one day, why not me? You know, it's like it came out.

I don't know where that came from. me, you know, it's like it came out. I don't know where that came from, but, and I think I'm in a good situation now up at the Berkshire J Spiewer company. And so you, it seems like you just keep working. I mean, like you'll like, are you, how do you decide what to do? Is it a matter of time or quality or, you know, it seems like you'd like to keep working and you're just going to keep going i i'm just going to keep going uh i i know when i started out i had doubts that i was going to work at all you know that i got it i got it into a workshop or whatever so and i love doing that i you know i don't care what the part is play who wrote it whatever as

long as i i feel a connection uh i just go and do it yeah and and you still and you enjoy it oh yeah totally i'm doing a film now um george fucking clooney oh george fucking Clooney oh George fucking Clooney sure and Ben Affleck and it's I'm so excited we've already started shooting and I'm very different character from

from you know I'm not repeating anything what movie is that it's based on a novel You know, I'm not repeating anything. What movie is that? It's based on a novel, The Tender Bar. The Tender Bar, huh? It's a guy who dreamed of being a ballplayer. Oh. Didn't work out.

And something that I'm still trying to get at, he gets this old house in Manhasset. His family is grown, his sons, you know, so it's a house full of his family who can't afford to live anywhere else. And he hates it. He hates that they're in the house. It looks like it's a big ensemble piece. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's great that you're still working. And I thought this new movie that nobody filmed, you know, I know Bob and and I thought it was it was kind, it's great that you're still working. And I thought this new movie, the Nobody film, you know, I know Bob. And I thought it was kind of a – it's not the kind of movie I usually watch, but I watched it last night, and it's fun.

It's what my dad calls a real shoot-em-up. That's good. But it was great work, and it's great talking to you, Chris, and continued success, my friend. All right. Thank you. Thank you. talking to you, Chris, and continued success,

my friend. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Christopher Lloyd, the new movie is Nobody, which was good. Bob Odenkirk plays the heavy in theaters Friday, March 26th. And now let's play some guitar that I'm sure I've played before, but it's always a little different

because it's fresh. Serving it up fresh. Same three chords. Fresh. Here it is. Relatively clean. A little vibratoed. A bit reverbed.

Stratocaster straight in. Thank you. Thank you. Boomer lives. Monkey and Lafonda. Cat angels everywhere. Sammy Red is here. you can't get an ice rink on Uber Eats. But iced tea and ice cream? Yes, we can deliver that. Uber Eats. Get almost almost anything. Order now. Product availability may vary by region. See app for details.

Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know, we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative.