WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1221 - Richard Kind

Episode Date: April 26, 2021

Richard Kind knows his face is memorable, but he still thinks he uses it too much. He knows his characters often exude warmth and joy, even though he is personally powered by dread and anxiety. He wants to be more like George Bailey, but worries he's closer to Willy Loman. Maybe this is why Richard and Marc connect so easily. They also talk about Richard being a part of the Coen Brothers' legacy, his friendship with George Clooney, and how he did most of his acting training in front of the camera. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what the fuckettes what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast welcome to it how's everybody doing vaxxed half vaxx Half-vaxxed? No-vaxxed for different reasons? What's happening? It seems like half the country is vaxxed up. Fighting back. Fighting back with science against the primordial monsters. The evolution of the things without bodies. That's right. Renegade strands of RNA and DNA that just need to be whole. And they're going to use us.

They're going to use ourselves. They're going to use us to fulfill their mission. Right? Fuck them. Why? God knows they're all getting stronger. The bugs are getting stronger. The bugs will win.

You know, everyone says that it's the end of the world. No, it's just the beginning. It's the beginning of the new phase of bugs. And a new bug will crawl out of the soup and eventually evolve little pod feet, and then little webbed feet, and then little feet feet, and some new thing will come walking, walking amongst the garbage and digital detritus that we've left them. Plenty of hints with no players because electricity will be different.

That's all I know. The same currents are not going to run things. Those things will not be harnessed anymore. It'll be a new age and it'll have nothing to do with us. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Have a nice sleep.

What are you doing? What are you fucking doing? Today on the show, Richard Kind is here. You know Richard. Character actor. You've seen him on TV shows like Mad About You, Spin City, Curb Your Enthusiasm. You've seen him in movies like A Serious Man and Argo. And a lot of people grew up with him as a voice in some formative childhood movies like Inside Out and Toy Story 3 and A Bug's Life. The bottom line is if you've seen Richard or even if you've just heard him, you don't forget him. He's one of those guys. He's currently in the show Everything's Gonna Be Okay, which is on Freeform and Hulu.

And I talked to him because I said I would talk to him. I would run into him here and there. I saw him. I don't know. He approached me once and he said he was a huge fan of the show and I was very flattered because I didn't know he knew me. And then I saw him in the subway in New York and I believe he was talking to himself and I interrupted that. And I said, hey, Richard, hey, we're going to do it sometime and then uh he said great and he was excited and then he went back to his conversation i walked away i'll bring that up to him uh because i believe that's what happened i believe it is what happened um i seem to be embarking on an irish soda bread journey that is really just a thinly veiled excuse for me to eat fucking

bread and carbs and but also to to focus in to focus in on the craft of cooking to focus in on the recipe the cooking the achievement the the the thing that comes out of the oven and you go oh my god look at that i hope it's good and then you tear. And if it's bad, you angrily eat it or throw it away. But whatever the case, I've been anxious and aggravated more so than usual, only because I think we're starting to reenter life, which is exciting. And I've been enjoying that. Kristen Hirsch from the Throwing Muses and from 50 Foot Wave and from her solo career and from the author of Rat Girl, somebody who I saw maybe 35 years ago playing what I think was the Kinvara Pub, maybe something like that. I don't remember. It was upstairs in a room off a bar, the Throwing Muses, before anyone knew who they were. And there's me and about 12 other people because i worked with tanya donnelly who went on to become a part of belly she was in throwing muses and she worked at the restaurant i worked at so i went to support man but once you see kristin hirsch you do not forget kristin hirsch and i got to talk to her i guess the point is

she got this new book out called seeing sideways a memoir but uh she was standing down the street with her bass player fred at a hotel and i was like come over for dinner why don't you come over for dinner so they did and i cooked for people i had a small dinner gathering with fred and kristin and my friend kit and we ate fish and desserts and things maskless we're out there on the precipice of engaging like normal people again we had some laughs but it's again i want to emphasize that not as weird as you think it's going to be it is just it just isn't weird i guess it's all what you put into it and how you look at it but uh it's it's more of an almost subtle relief now i'm recording this before the oscars and something has happened over uh over this break over this year of terror and panic is that you start to realize, like, hey, man,

you know, certain institutions need to be upheld and rebuilt. But what is life like without certain institutions? Like, I've seen, I believe, most of the Oscar movies, and I'm sure I'll look and see who won and i'll be happy maybe i'll have even talked to some of them uh but i don't want to watch the ceremony maybe that's just because i know it's not quite up to speed and i've got this aversion to compromised uh ceremonies because of you know this virus because of the bug because of the bug man these bugs are hard to beat aren't they hard to beat but i guess i'm saying that um i'm not feeling like i'm gonna i missed the ceremony

it doesn't matter i just realized fuck you guys fuck it i'm i'm getting older i'm at a point in my life where i started to think about reentering stand-up, starting to think about what I needed to say, who I needed to say it to, and why. Am I a song and dance man? Do I need to entertain? Those kind of questions. But really, it becomes sort of about at what level would you like to communicate at? Who would you like to talk to?

What is it that you're, how would you like to talk? And you start to realize that, especially because we've been down for a year and mostly engaging through platforms or through Zoom or through mediated means, that a lot of times, you know, communications is clip, it's infantile. It's teenage. A lot of times you wonder, like, why am I speaking with this brevity, with this, you know, precision, with this lack of tone? It's because our brains are all being trained to communicate in short blurts. And sometimes it's the entire cultural dialogue is fucking utterly infantile. it's the entire cultural dialogue is fucking utterly infantile and it's sort of like is this is this really how i want to spend the last quarter of my life is engaging in infantile cultural conversation and watching people in their 20s 30s and 40s call each other pussies you know it's like what are we 14 so i started to think about that think about what is the presentation where are we at where am i at what do i give a fuck about those should have been answered. I had a year to answer that quiz. I had a year.

How do we want to speak? How do I want to speak? What do I want to say? Where's my head at? What have I figured out? What am I processing? What am I moving through? And I no longer know what I said at the beginning of this goddamn broadcast. That's what's going on with my brain. As I am walking, the sidewalk is falling into a crevice behind me. As I am walking, the sidewalk is falling into a crevice behind me. As I am talking, the thoughts and words are falling into an abyss behind me. What is that? Is that meditation? Is that being present? Hey, what just happened? I don't know, man. You're going to have to look in the hole. You're going to have to throw a line down there. You have to throw a hook. You're going to have to put some bait on it and try to figure out what the fuck i was thinking five minutes ago that seems like a chore gone gone

into the fucking abyss i have been thinking about the past so i have been going over it and i've been listening to classical music and uh a comic died a couple of days ago. Carl LeBeau is dead. You know, he hung in there, man. He had cancer and he passed. And he's part of my past. He was part of my past during a very traumatic time. And he was actually a contributor to that trauma. But I got closure.

We got closure. I'm sure it was more important to me than it was to him. But he was a great comic a unique comic an underappreciated comic and um you should check out his stuff carl l-a-b-o-v-e the physicality of the thing his physicality was a gift physicality being physically funny and knowing how to work that is a gift. And I always enjoy it. You know, I can do physical comedy relative to me, but some guys write it.

That's part of their thing. But dark stuff, light stuff, animated stuff in terms of how he performed. A unique guy. A good guy for the most part. So rest in peace, Carl. Man, looking back, closure. What does that mean exactly? Sometimes I'm starting to realize as I get older and as I think about things

and as I sort out what I still carry with me in my life, resentments, hurts, periods of time that are lost, embarrassing moments. It's amazing that I can remember, emotionally remember, on a feeling level, embarrassing moments in my life from like seventh fucking grade. Like I can feel the feelings of that. But in terms of other people living or dead, it seems to me that sometimes you're not going to get closure. So you might have to just do it on your side. You might have to go ahead and close it up on your side. Just shut it. Just close it up on your side because, you know, there's nothing happening on this side. And those are the fucking, those are the weights in a way.

Closure is one thing, letting go is another thing. But the burden of heartbreak and of mistakes and of the past. You know, whether or not you accept them is important. But even when you accept them, there's a weight to it and that weight is your life. And from that weight,

you know, hopefully you can find a little wisdom from exerting the muscle to carry those fucking bricks. And then hopefully not build a wall with the bricks. But just throw them into the abyss behind you. Today's Metaphor Day on WTF. Welcome.

Welcome to it. Richard Kind is with us. What am I? Now I'm talking like a TV host. I enjoy Richard Kind is with us. What am I? Now I'm talking like a TV host. I enjoy Richard Kind. He exudes an energy that I think is joy, but I talked to him a little bit about that. He's just intense, and he lights you up when you talk to him. And there's nobody like him.

He's in a show called Everything's Gonna Be Okay, which airs Thursday nights on Freeform, and is streaming the next day on Hulu, and this is me talking to Richard Kine. It's winter, and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So no, you can't get snowballs on Uber

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This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. I talk about being inspired by my grandmother's neighbors in Pompton Lake, New Jersey. When I was a kid, the Newericks lived next door. And it was like I was a kid, the Newericks lived next door. And it was like I was a kid, right? And their sons were teenagers. And they had these rooms. And it was the 60s, late 60s, early 70s. And it made such an impact on my brain. Carrie Newerick's room changed my fucking brain.

The posters, the books, the records. I was like, that's how you live. Right, and Andy Sapiro had his basement. You had that guy? Yeah, Andy Sapiro. And I didn't love hard rock the way that he did, but I had to pretend to because I admired Andy Sapiro. So I'm listening to Iron Butterfly. Sure.

Yeah, yeah. And of course, I like it, but he loves it. And the sad thing is, I wanted to listen to Fiddler on the Roof. Did you try to get him to do that in his big stereo? No! Who was that kid? Andy Sapiro? Yeah.

He was a neighbor? Yeah. Cousin? You rode your bike over to Andy's house. Or Elliot Lickstein. Elliot Lickstein. Or Mark Chamlin, you know, or Rick Milner. Yeah. Went over to their house. But Andy Sapiro had the room that you're talking about. Right, right.

Because he liked rock. Lived in the basement? Did he live in the basement? Yeah. Was it a basement room? Yes, it was a basement room. So it wasn't his room. It was like a playroom, like a den.

Yeah, we all had playrooms. And you had such high hopes. Yeah. I call it, okay, there's my explanation. This is my shorthand. I call it the sewing machine. Right. My sister asked for a sewing machine forever.

She finally got a sewing machine. Yeah. It was used to hold my parents' TV. It was the TV stand. Never used yeah so we had a basement with the exercise equipment with the the ping pong table yeah nothing never went down to the basement there was a pool table in our first house in this huge room a shag green shag carpet right when you walked in it it was probably supposed to be a den. There was a fireplace in there. And my dad bought a pool table because it was a thing.

Sure. And there it was. And none of us were very good at it. But my dad, a guy who worked for my dad, was a, like, loved pool. So then that guy, like, basically was at our house constantly. So people went down there? It was right when you walk in.

It wasn't even in the basement. My room was in the basement. Oh, okay. Me and my brother had a panel. But your dad, but this was something he aspired to. Yeah, whatever. It was a thing, a phase. Yeah, a thing.

Yeah, the manic sort of like compulsive, like we're going to do this. We're going all in now. Okay. And then it just sat there and that's an awfully large thing it became the thing that you rested your coat on unless bob came over and he made it a pool room oh that's funny so bob would come over and show us how to do trick shots and everything else and he would smoke it literally he acted like it was his pool room oh that's funny it was his x-ray tech my dad's x-ray tech right okay yeah yeah now you were saying your brother you and your brother had what?

We lived in a basement room. Our room was the basement. It was a redone basement with a bathroom and a playroom. There was like, our bedroom was there. My mom fixed it up with shag carpet, and I had posters up, and they let me put fairly racy posters up. And then there was another room next to it in the basement. And my mother's cousin came out from New Jersey. And they went down there and they found all these drugs in the light fixture of the other room when I was a kid. You mean your uncle stayed for a while?

No, it was the cousin. The cousin stayed? No, it was from the people who lived there before. I don't know what they did. That's great. Yeah, just like massive amounts't know what they did. That's great. Yeah, just like massive amounts of narcotics. Oh, that's great. Well, that's New Mexico, I guess.

This is 1973. But I don't understand. It sounds like, okay, your dad was a doctor. Right. So he was admired in town. He was. Right. Not anymore.

Okay, but he was admired. He's a doctor. Yeah, he's an orthopedic. Substantial lipid. Orthopedic. It was Albuquerque. It's not like a small town. By the way, it was just in Albuquerque.

Of course, everyone in show business goes to Albuquerque now. There's nothing good to say about it. One thing. I grew up there. The best fish and chips I've ever had. That's the weirdest thing I ever heard. I know it is. What are you talking about?

Twice. Two different places. What are you talking about? Where? The best. There's a new place. God. I want to say there's some little market right by this hotel in Albuquerque.

Going to have to focus. And then there's downtown. More specific. They now have. When was the last time you were there? Not long ago. They have these eating courts they've built with like 15 restaurants. Oh, the food hall thing?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's a popular thing in small cities. I've seen it around. Well, in Albuquerque, I went to tour. They have one, huh? I didn't know that. How long were you there?

Nine days. What were you shooting? Something we'll never see. What does that mean? You know, it was, we might, it's called The Ray. Yeah. It was called The Ray. It's a movie?

Yeah, a movie. Uh-huh. Uh yeah a movie and I got to play a gangster there was no comedy in it okay I got to play a gangster it's so funny because when you walked in and you know you told me

you were here to shoot Larry's show and whatever and then there was this like the way you said so you working doing TV like it was like it was a moment

where it registered to me it's like oh this is just a job that we do you know we're in the same business right you know he's here making tv why wouldn't i be making tv then i felt like why am i not making tv and i'm like i don't need to be making tv right now but it's like it's interesting thing that

it's just our job and i you know and when i look at like all the stuff that you've done there's a lot of work there that you're like i work i'm an actor i do the work i love it i love it and it's not it's not work i mean that's uh i'm to start saying platitudes that I say and that I try and say to my son. How old is he? He's 16. And a wonderful. My children are wonderful. Well, how about the other one?

How many you got? Two are 16. So I have twins. Oh, you have twins. And one is 19. And one is 19. And the 19-year-old is so liberal now that I am the grand dragon of the KKK. That's how liberal she is.

Wasn't she always? I mean, was there a period? Did she go through a conservative phase? What do you mean so liberal? It's just how she's evolving, you mean. Evolving. Yeah. You know, there are years where they don't turn on the news.

They don't know what's happening. Yeah, because they're too busy wondering if they look good or if somebody likes them. Who's calling? I don't know. Yes, caller. What is your question? Hold on. I just don't know if it's the plumber.

I'm sorry. It's rare, but there's a plumber. Maybe this is my jacket. Maybe it'll be good for the show. Let's rare, but there's a plumber. Maybe this is my jacket. Maybe it'll be good for the show. Let's see. Hello? Hi, what's up? Okay, thanks.

Okay, bye. Well, I put mine on airplane mode. At least I'm a little gracious to you. No, I didn't mean to be rude, and I never do that, and I just turned it off, but the plumber's coming. The drain needs to be snaked, Richard. I live in New York. We have ours done four times a year. Why?

Because it's an old building, and you pay a certain amount of money, and they make it the Mr. Kind. Can you come over this Monday at 12 between 12 and 2? Oh, so they service the building. The building does that. No, no, no. You've got to pay for it. Me. My place. All Come over this Monday at 12 between 12 and 2? Oh, so they service the building. The building does that. No, no, no. You got to pay for it. It's me. My place. All right, let's go back.

Okay, hold on. But I have a question. Why isn't your phone, if you have a plumber coming over, who else are they going to call? You got to keep it on. Keep the phone on. No, she just told me

he's coming in an hour. Well, what if I talk a lot? Then they'll wait. It'll be fine. Okay, that's money. Waiting is money. I don't care. It's like, you know, look, I talk a lot then they'll wait it'll be fine okay that's money waiting is money I don't care it's like you know

look I have a second shower this is a mistake they fucked it up oh okay go ahead let's talk about things what what did you want to say well I've like

there's a warmth that you have that's a specifically Jewish kind of thing to me okay you know like that's the biggest curse you could put on me but I understand no no like I'm always happy to see you specifically a Jewish kind of thing to me. Okay. You know, like... That's the biggest curse you could put on me,

but I understand. No, no, like, I'm always happy to see you. Yes. And, like, I had Mandy Patinkin in here. And there's, you know, there's a couple people I somehow see as Jewish Buddhas, as spiritual people, whether they are or not. There's a familiarity to it.

Yes. Even when I saw you on the... The last time I saw you, I think we were in the subway, and you were, I believe, talking to yourself. But yourself but you know that's your business and that's why i live in new york i can get away with it and like you know like originally and i i interrupted the conversation and you're like oh my god and like it was just such a good feeling that you know that's when i said we got to talk but i will say for, the reason why I was especially happy to see you is because your life in this business has evolved in a way that I don't even think you could have predicted. No, I was definitely not.

Right. And don't you celebrate that? Don't you like slap yourself and go, oh, my God, I worked with Nicholson or De Niro. And I'm in a legacy of, you know, Batman. I'm part of the universe. That's not the thing that I pat myself on the back. I know. But who would have thought even 10 years ago that that's what you would have been?

No, absolutely. Not me. Not me. Not you. How about me? I swear to God, I'm on Marc Maron's show. Now, I don't mean to be so sycophantic, but you have a legacy right now with this show. This is chronicled of entertainment for the past 10 to 12 years. Right.

I'm part of it. You are now? Now. Yeah. to 12 years. Right. I'm part of it. You are now. Now? Yeah. And you know when I celebrate it is when that same moment that we have where you're like, you're working? I'm like, I'm not working. Then I have that moment where I go like, fuck, why am I not working? Then there's the next moment where it's like, I don't fucking need to work. Wow. Okay. Well, let me

ask you. That's the celebration. Do you need to do this? No, I do. No, no, no. I mean, does Mark Maron. No, no, no. Your heart. If you stop this tomorrow, would life be fine? No, I mean, because you have to understand this is like now that people are coming over again, that you're here. It's part of my social life. It's not even part of my social life.

important, soul-nourishing activity to hear someone else's story, to engage with somebody, to sort of like, you know, get out of myself and to sort of share. So the social element of it, the actual engagement, well, how often do you sit and talk to someone for an hour ever? Not anymore. Never. And you listen to these things and I find out people who I know intimately. You've new things. I find out things that, oh my gosh, in their youth, this is what they had. But why would you know that? Because you don't talk to people like that ever. Ever.

Ever. Right. And I go out with these people for lunch or for coffee, sometimes twice a month. But you don't sit there and go like, so when you were a kid. Right. Exactly. So your mom, okay? Was she your friend or was she your mom?

You know, stuff like that. And you find out. And so I do know a lot about you. Of course. About your dad. About me, yeah, sure. Because you are forced to talk about it because that's how you do relate on this show.

Your Wikipedia thing has a very weird thing about your father. It's a very interesting thing. Go ahead, what? It's a weird little detail. Go ahead, what? It's a weird little detail. Go ahead. That I've never really seen before. Because it's out of note. There's one paragraph about your early life.

And I'll look at Wiki sometimes. And I'll go on about my early life, what I can remember. But it's just sort of, it says, you're the son of Alice, a homemaker. Right. And Samuel Kind, a jeweler. Okay. Sure. But then it says, who formerly owned Lvesque's Jewelry in Princeton.

Yeah. But it's like, I've never seen that detail. Like, you know, who wrote Levesque's? Oh, who wrote it? As if like, oh, Levesque's. Like everybody. Now, hold on a second. Hold on.

What don't I know? Levesque's was what? Levesque's competition was Tiffany and Cartier. Okay. Because Princeton, New Jersey, which for a while, I don't know whether, was the most literate town in the world.

Because of the university. Whatever. Whatever it drew. You were 50 minutes from New York. You could work on Wall Street, but you could live a decent life. The campus was beautiful. could work on Wall Street, but you could live a decent life. The campus was beautiful. The Nassau Street, the finest stores, men's clothing, Langrox, my dad's store. My dad's store was huge.

Oh, so it's like it's a monument. Like, you know, people who- Everybody knew LeBake's Jewelers. And if you got a LeBake's gift, you were doing cartwheels. My dad was tremendously overpriced. Tremendously. But you paid for the guarantee that you were going to get the best. And every bit of his jewelry came from the same suppliers as Tiffany's, Cartier's. And these people knew my dad. My dad was huge in town, a Jew in a very waspy town.

Is that where you come from, Princeton? Half an hour away, 20 minutes away, Yardley, Pennsylvania. That's where you grew up? I grew up in Yardley. That doesn't sound Jewish. Wasn't that Jewish? Are you kidding? No, I went to school with farmers and steel workers.

I did. It was Bucks County. You know Bucks County? No. It's New Hope. It was a very artist community. Paul Simon lived there and Pearl Buck wrote there and Oscar Hammerstein. Paul Simon?

Paul Simon. Not the senator. Paul Simon, Paul Simon? Paul Simon had a house there. Little Jewish Paul Simon? Little had a little Jewish Paul Simon little Jewish Paul Simon Robinson oh yeah yes you know the Paul Simon I'm talking about Mark I've made my point so I grew up in farm country and everybody goes oh Bucks County did you were you Amish we weren't Amish we were the school system was great, Pempsbury High School, huge, huge school, great school system. And my dad traveled. My dad's parents had a store

in Trenton, New Jersey. Trenton. Before, like when Trenton was, you know, like Newark was great. The gateway to, isn't there a sort of thing? Oh no, what Trenton makes, the world takes? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes, but we used to say what Trenton uses, the world refuses. Yeah. But Trenton was a great, great town. Much like Newark was a magnificent- My people from Elizabeth. Right, Elizabeth.

And then the 60s came and the integrations and the riots. And it was white flight, exactly, in Trenton. And then across the river, five minutes across the delaware river yeah was yardley pennsylvania yeah and that's where we are and when i was a kid i remembered my aunt janice now we're recording this the day after the verdict came down for chauvin yeah yeah so i truly have to be careful of how i say these things, but you have to understand this was a story. This was a time. I remember my Aunt Janice saying, they're going to come to Yardley. And in my head, I had this vision of black people crossing the Calhoun Street Bridge to come and get us. It was horrible.

Hoon Street Bridge to come and get us. It was horrible. And having a verdict like we did yesterday, it just calms me. Right. But it's interesting that that's obviously a racial paranoia, but these older people at that time watching the television. That's what they thought. Of course. Of course.

They had to believe. I'm learning how I'm evolving. You know, I happen to be on a Zoom call with some people who, your audience, who we all know. I don't know whether I want to mention their name, but they're prominent black actors. Yes. And at the very start. Yesterday? When?

We're actually all meeting tonight. Okay. Live. Yeah. We used actually all meeting tonight live. But we used to have these Zoom calls, and we were talking about racism. And what I was educated on was that we cannot just search for equality, or we must be anti-racist. We must be anti-racist. And that is a semantic argument. And since Trump has gotten into office, I learned how much words matter. But we must learn to be anti-racist, not just fight for their equality of whoever it is. Well, now that the pigs are out of the tunnel, we see who they are.

I've never heard it like that, but yes, you are right. You know, after Trump, the one thing is, you know, thank God he didn't win again. But what we do know is like, okay, you've all identified yourselves. And some of you are shamelessly proud that you are who you are now. It's astounding. Believe me, dude. It takes my breath away. And I thought that we were through.

No, because like and I and I've said this before, but it's like the one thing that he for that was that he got rid of was the one thing that democracy requires is it is tolerance. Tolerance is necessary in order for it to function properly. So that fucking monster gets in there and says you don't have to tolerate shit fuck these people like the idea of majority rule means that there's going to be people that are unhappy with the way things are but you suck it up and you tolerate it right until the next time and then maybe your guy wins or maybe there's some uh that you either grow to understand or accept or whatever but what what happened in the last four years is like fuck you double down on your fucking that's true very very true and the shame of it is is go and do something about it like storm the capital yeah yeah yeah yes you're

absolutely right they didn't us nuts nuts so when you're growing up and like now so you're wait hold on let me finish about my dad's store my dad was huge in princeton and he was six foot four and we would walk down the street yeah i'm a little kid yeah and my arm was straight up in the air yeah like this yeah and it would take him an hour to walk down the street sam sam how you doing and i'm there like a little kid. He's selling wedding rings, engagement rings, gifts for families. Not big honking, chewy rings.

Right. Really classy, classy. But in the neighborhood, it's like, you know, it's one of those things where it's like, you got to get a ring, you got to go to, you know.

You either went to my dad or you went to New York. Right. And in New York, you were just one of many thousands. If you went to my dad. What's his name? Sam. If you went to my dad yeah or you went to new york right and in new york you were just one of many thousands your dad you went to my dad what's his name sam yeah if you went to my dad yeah my dad knew everything you had ever bought right right he knew what would go with it and you want to know how good he was yeah i saw i work in the store and i know about pearls yeah and i'm trying

to show this guy pearls pearls you know and i take out this strand of pearls. You see how these are larger. These are graduated. These are white like that. All of it. And I'm with him for 45 minutes. All of a sudden, my dad comes by and he goes, hey, Sid, what are you doing? You buying some pearls for Louise? And I go and he goes, yeah.

And he looks down and he goes, Richie, wrap these up. Yeah. Literally, that's what he did. I'm trying to sell this guy. And he goes, Richie, wrap these up. And he sells them what he did. I'm trying to sell this guy, and he goes, Richie, wrap these up. And he sells them in 30 seconds. But he's not selling them. He really knows. It's like, I know Louise.

Yeah, it does. And he could never remember anybody's name. And there was a telephone guy. He could never remember their name, but he always remembered where they lived. So he'd go, where are you? What number Sutton Road are you? And he would go 15. And he would go back, look up 15, and then it would give the person's name.

That's wild. Yeah. I'm not great with names. Oh, horrible. And now, even people I know. I know. Well, it's always like that. What do you think that is?

What do you make of that? Like, to me, is it like it's selfishness or what? I mean, there's certain things I can commit to memory. But there's people I've known for 20 years. I'm like, hey, what's i i i know what you're saying i think it's dementia no but it's not i've always had it why can't you have it yeah why can't i just train myself it's like okay okay that's richard that's richard that's richard that's richard committed committed you know what i mean like device the pneumatic device is that what it's

called i don't know what it is yeah but you know like say mean? The device, the pneumatic device, is that what it's called? I don't know what it is. Yeah, but, you know, like say a mark. You don't have dementia. But I worry about it. Yeah, me too. My dad's, I think, starting. Oh, yeah. But forgetting things. Which is why I love acting now and doing plays is because you're training your brain to memorize lines and you keep it in there.

We are, I do believe that theory that our brain can only handle so much. So if so much information after all of these years is in there yeah something's got to move and it doesn't move hopefully the stuff that you know used to be important goes away you know the stuff that you thought was so essential that you know ruined your life 20 years ago i guess if this is life or death and it's not it's nothing none of it's been banged in with nails that are an inch thick. Bang, bang, bang. They've been there for so long. I've been relieved of some of it. Have you? Yes. Yes. Like there's just

the things that, you know, because I'm driven by panic and anxiety. So there's an urgency to everything. Even now. Like, you know, yesterday I know you're coming over. I'm like, I gotta, what's gonna, I gotta talk to Richard. You know, what am I gonna do? What are we gonna, every guest i have over here it's like you know i'm consumed with an anxiety yeah i don't know how it's gonna go until i see you and then i'm like hey you know well yes

but i can't not do that and like in the past there have been things that were so important at the moment and in retrospect you know even right after they happened i'm like that what was i so fucking nuts about a lot of that stuff i've let go of like when you realize like that wasn't that important and then you could do that before then no what do you mean like I can't do it I can't preemptively do it or I'd be a healthier person but the stuff that you know I know what's important one isn't yes but I almost celebrate getting nervous about things I get nervous. I wish it was just nervous. I experience dread. Okay. You go on a roller coaster.

What's the psychological reason of going straight downhill and being scared for that moment? Weightlessness. Whatever. But there's something in your head. You and I, who I think are unfortunately built from the same sort of foundation, enjoy the dread. But see, I understand that, Richard. And we're trained. But I don't know that it's enjoy, but I do know that it's who we are.

It's home. So it's not like I can't wait to be filled with dread, but I feel uncomfortable. Your vocabulary is perfect. It's home. Right. It is a comfort that happens to make us uncomfortable, but it's comfort. It's what we know. Right.

I say it like I never understood Virginia Woolf, the play, Virginia Woolf, until I was married. And then you get into habits, and these guys like to argue. It made them happy. So we like to feel the dread, not like it, but we are comfortable with the dread. It's familiar. It's familiar. It's familiar. It's our reaction to it.

Look, this whole conversation, not these words, but the whole tone of it, I had it half an hour on my drive over here. You did? With yourself? Yeah, saying this is what I'm going to say to Mark. This was your dread monologue in the car? Well, I said I want to tell him this story. I want to say this. When you're talking to yourself in your car? Right. But I'm not talking to myself. I'm talking to you.

And I'm driving here. And I must tell you, I want this to be the... It's great. This I must tell you, I want this to be the... It's great. This I knew. I know it's great. I know it's great.

Fine, fine, fine. We're talking like we're all friends. But I wanted this to be the most fascinating interview in the legion of interviews you have. It is. Thank you. Yeah, it is. No, it's not. Yes, it is.

But I want you to say, Richard, how can we go an hour? Why are we going three? I didn't mean to put that in your head, the hour thing. I'm sorry. We can go three, but then it gets cut down. There's no reason. Don't worry about it. I understand that.

Let me ask you a question. Yes. See, I understand we share this thing. But the one thing in talking about how I feel about you at the beginning, just innately, you seem to be able to experience and embrace and be comfortable with joy. You emanate it. I can feel it in you that you are able to surrender to it to the point where you exude it. You have a good range. You can do the misery, anger, anger all of that stuff and maybe you are

comfortable with dread in your regular life but you you exude a sort of like you know when people see you they're they're probably like hey i feel better just looking at that guy i i you want to know something what i want people to do that they do i swear to god okay here's what i also say this is why i have these pithy things that come out of my mouth. I don't think you told me the thing you said to your kid. Okay, well, we always... It doesn't matter. You know, I have a friend. I have a friend, Kathy Najimy's husband.

Yeah. Okay, wonderful, wonderful guy. Yeah. He will not leave a conversation until all of the points that we've brought up... Are tied up? Are tied up. No, we don't have to do that.

But it's just funny... You can't. To the way that we go, we can't up are tied up no we don't have to do that but it's just you can't to the way that we go no we can't but it was just a moment where you said it's like an adage that you say to your kid

your progressive kid you say something but we didn't say I don't even remember Najimy's husband but here's what I want you to know right written in the same time

I think two years separated yeah Frank Capra made It's a Wonderful Life yeah and Arthur Miller wrote Death of a Salesman yeah all about friendship I think two years separated them. Yeah. Frank Capra made It's a Wonderful Life. Yeah. And Arthur Miller wrote Death of a Salesman. Yeah.

All about friendship. Mm-hmm. Willie Loman said that he thought he had friends. Yeah. And he was a salesman. He could count on these people. And at the end of the line, he could count on no one. There was no one there for him.

I just watched that again. It's magnificent. Harper. George Bailey. Yeah. You are never alone. Mm-hmm. As long as you have friends who do I want to be but you've got no choice you're that guy you are correct it's relative to your need right there are times when I really try to say not to say don't end up like Willie Loman. Don't need friends.

And I can't do it. I can't do it. But I want to. I want to be stronger. I want to be solo. I want to be an individual who doesn't need anybody else. Well, then do a play.

But actually, no. You know what? You think that's a joke. That's the opposite. I need the audience to support me, to say, you're great. But why do you equate that with strength, this idea of being

the loner, the cowboy, the guy who doesn't need people? Because Willie Loman ended up a loser. A loser. A delusional loser. Okay. Yeah. All right.

Right. But he's a loser. Yeah. He kills himself. He finds out he's empty. I don't want to be that guy. Have you played him? No, I'd like to.

And there's not many roles that I say, oh, I read. And that's not at the top of the, the only one that's at the top of the list is Roy Cohn in Angels in America. Oh. It's the only one. I saw, what's the original? So did I. Ron Liebman. I've seen a few.

Oh, my God. Oh, and when he's literally spitting, he was spitting. Yes. Well, that's him. The tongue. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like a snake. He's passed, right?

Yeah, he did. And married to Jessica Walter, who just passed. And I knew them both. Not intimately, yeah. Like a snake. He's passed, right? Yeah, he did. And married to Jessica Walter, who just passed. And I knew them both. Not intimately, but I knew them both. That makes sense. I didn't realize that. Oh, I loved Ron Liebman. And if you ever saw him.

Have you seen the movie Where's Papa? With Ruth Gordon? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I have. Do you remember him? Yeah, yeah. He's Stuart Siegel's brother. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Running across the park. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Going to get you, motherfucker. Going to get you. He's just great. Yeah. He's great great he's a great actor yeah great in the movie in the movie uh uh slaughterhouse five i remember that i don't remember if i saw it oh he's great yeah great he's a he's the opposite of what he was in in where's papa i've been watching uh i just did a double feature, basically,

with Barton Fink and Hal Caesar. That's great. What a great one. Yeah. It's where it's at. Yes. That's the Hollywood movies. Oh, my gosh.

And from two guys who love Hollywood and have a great distaste for it. Oh, no. They're beautiful satires. Yeah. They're great. Two of them.

Well, I love them. Yeah, I love that. I watch, when people who I know who aren't Jewish don't quite get the Jewish thing, I tell them, I'd watch a series. I read for that thing. Who'd you read for? For one of the lawyers? No, I think they were looking for a lead.

I don't know. They got nowhere near the thing, but I really thought that I could do it. All right, well, my joke about that is it's the ugliest cast since Freaks. I had to go in and audition for the Coen brothers for two movies. One was Burn After Reading. The role of a lawyer. He had two monologues. I'm telling you, it filled up a page and a half, and it's only him talking.

I worked, and I worked, and I worked on that. The other one was for, I think, a lawyer. Yeah. No, that was the lawyer. Maybe a rabbi or something like that. The other one was for, I think, a lawyer. Yeah. No, that was the lawyer. Maybe a rabbi or something like that. Oh, yeah. The Arkin kid played, I think, a lawyer. Yes.

Okay. Yeah. So it's two roles. Yeah. I'm auditioning for the same time. Yeah. I worked and worked and worked. I must have done that monologue from Burn After Reading.

I maybe asked them to do it five times. I just kept doing it. It's also I happen to like auditioning. They like me. They say, can you go out and read these lines for the lead of Serious Man. Because I'm auditioning for Burn After Reading

and Serious Man at the same time. They were casting at the same time. I said, you know what? I've worked really hard on these two monologues. I just flew in back from L.A. to New York. Why would I just go out and spend 10, 15 minutes going over these lines? I want to work on it. Let me go home and work on these scenes.

They never called me back. I never read for the part. They cast it. Then I find out while they're casting Burn After Reading, and they were working with George Clooney, who's a friend, George was going, they love you, they love you, they want you for this movie. And then I auditioned. I was doing The Devil in Damn Yankees out in Fort Worth, Texas at Summer Stock. Oh, wow. And they wanted me to go on camera, you know, film it.

Yeah. And so- Before the phones. No, there might have been phones. Who knows? I can't even remember. And on this beautiful stage with the scenery behind me, I'm doing whatever my character's- Arthur, I think his name is, in Serious Man.

The brother. And I did it. And here was, this is great. Yeah. Joel said, I think it was Joel said, you cannot be too big when you cry. It's huge. And he told me the story about Bill Macy. When Bill Macy in Fargo bangs the top of the...

I know the scene in the desk. Yeah. No, either the desk or the top of the car. Oh, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. And he's going... Like that.

And it looks like you're going, oh my God. Yeah. And he said, I can't do that. They're going to laugh at me back in New York. He goes, nothing's too big. Just do it. Yeah.

Well, you remember it. Yeah. That's what they do. They are real and huge at the same time. The Coens. Yeah. And, you remember. Yeah. That's what they do. They are real and huge at the same time. The Coens. Yeah. And I love that. But they also have a tremendous respect for character actors.

Oh, yes. So like, you know, like everybody, you know, they're complete professionals, but they're not, you know, they're not hinged to sort of their celebrity in a way. not hinged to sort of their celebrity in a way. And they can sort of manage to take on the emotions of normal people. That's true. And not only that, they take normal actors like Brad Pitt or George and they let them be character actors. You know, like I enjoy the movie and I thought it was one of Brad Pitt's best movies.

He was great. Great. And Clooney's like the greatest movie star ever. Oh, he's great. Jesus Christ. But he also became a much better actor, which he will admit. I guess that's true.

He will admit. I watch Michael Clayton like four or five times a year. Jesus, so good. So good. That and Up in the Air, he's so good. I just watched Up in the Air. And Descendants, he's great. Great.

Great. And if you look at him, I'll tell you a funny story. You guys are buddies? Yes, we're very dear friends. He was in Oh Brother Where Art Thou? Yeah, I love that. So I get invited by George to the screening.

Yeah. And I'm sitting like almost in the same row or maybe in front of them. I fall asleep at movies. Yeah. It's about seven seconds and I wake up and I am so refreshed. But if it happens to be at a time where I could fall asleep at the chariot race at Ben-Hur. Yeah. But I wake up and I'm refreshed.

During Oh Brother Where Art Thou? Yeah. I start nodding off. Next to George? Yeah. Yeah. At the premiere? No, no, no.

Not at the premiere. At a screening. Okay. So there's maybe 10 people in the screening room. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And George goes, what the fuck are you doing? I mean, he nudges me at that. And so George remembers that about how I like the movie.

And he goes, you never liked Oh Brother. And I go, I didn't. I just fell asleep. Yeah. But he was really nervous because the Cones. I don't think the Cones ever saw me fall asleep. Right. They're not invested in that.

No, I mean. But of course I love the movie, but that's what, but I did fall asleep. He's so, in comedies, he's so good. And he's so good in it, yeah.

And Hail Caesar, it's too funny. Yeah, he's great. How about the not great movie about the divorce lawyers with Catherine Zeta-Jones? I didn't watch that one. I haven't seen it.

I'm saying, it's not great. I don't know why I didn't see it. But he's terrific. Yeah, he's so funnyJones. I didn't watch that one. I haven't seen it. I'm saying it's not great. I don't know why I didn't see it. But he's terrific. Yeah, he's so funny. Anyway, I don't like talking about him that much. Why? Because you just can't say enough good things?

Okay. He's one of the greats. And as a man, he's great. Yeah. But he gets his own publicity, and you never know when you're going to say something that's bad. Oh, right, right. Yeah, how it's going to be framed. Yes, yes.

Well, let's talk about you. So you're in Pennsylvania, you're going to school with farmers and steel workers' children. There was a guy named Chuck Heston. Chuck Heston. He was a farmer's kid. Yeah. In sixth grade, he took a walnut. You know how you take two walnuts and crack them in your hand?

Sure. Because he took one and cracked it in his hand. And that was what he was known for? The walnut thing? He was a farmer. You know how you take two walnuts and crack them in your hand? Because he took one and cracked it in his hand. And that was what he was known for? The walnut thing? He was a farmer. He was this huge kid. Well, how do you fare? Are you called the Jewish guy?

Are you an entertainer? Do you schmooze the farmhands? I'll tell you what it is. I was in speech club. I was in theater and everything like that. But I was president of my class. Yeah. A school that had 1,200 kids per grade.

Yeah. So there's 2,400 schools. Okay. Yeah. So one night, we all get drunk. We're in the backyard. And there were these huge, there was this guy named Gary Stadanlik. Yeah.

Okay. Sure. Huge football player. Yeah. Okay. Sure. Huge football player. Yeah. I mean, we were a great team. We were number one in the county. You were a football player? Was I?

Yeah. No, but I hung out with them. Okay, of course. I was popular. Yeah. I'm a good guy. You're a good guy. Funny.

So I would hang out with them and all the cheerleaders and the football players. So we're there one night and everybody's drunk and everything and some of the football players start wrestling around. And I'm in there and all of a sudden, I feel myself get picked up by the back of my shirt, lifted horizontally by a guy by the name of Mike Kane. Not Michael Kane, Mike Kane. Mike Kane, who was equally as big as Gary Stodano.

And he picks me up and carries me to the other side of the yard. And he says, you don't want to get in there. You're going to get hurt. So I was the puppy dog. And then one important thing that he'll never remember, but the football, the quarterback was this guy named Bob Bowden. Yeah. Big Bob?

No. No. Little Bob. Regular size? Regular size. But he was a great quarterback. Not as big as Mike or the other guy. But handsome. Yeah. Prett? No. No. Little Bob. Regular size? Regular size. But he was a great quarterback. Not as big as Mike or the other guy. But handsome.

Yeah. Prettiest girls went out. Sure. That's the rule. And we used to go to this place in Jersey because we were in Pennsylvania. Drinking age in Jersey was 18. 18, yeah. We used to drink Blackberry Brandy.

And I would sit at the bar and Bob Bowden would talk about how he wanted to be me. And I would talk to Bob about how I wanted to be him. Why did he want to be you? Because I was an actor, and I was a leader. You did the acting in high school? Yeah. Oh, and you were the vice president. Oh, I wasn't supposed to be an actor.

I was supposed to be a lawyer. Right. I was supposed to go to law school, business school, and then take over my dad's store. Right. So he wanted, I was president of student council. There's reasons why you might want to be. He was limited, and you weren't. I wasn't trying to insult you. No might want to be. He was limited and you weren't.

I wasn't trying to insult you. No, no, no. He was limited, but I'm limited. I wanted to be handsome and a quarterback. He wanted to be a leader and an actor or whatever. And this was just one night, and the two of us talked that one night. And you remember it? It was huge in my life.

Huge in 12th grade. Because it must have given you a sense of like, maybe I'm all right. Maybe. Mark, was there anything anybody ever said to you that made you say, I think I'm all right? Not then. Right. And we keep getting laughs, we get applause and still, do you really think you're alright?

I have lately. I think in the last decade, it's happened a bit. Oh, I'm glad. Not for you? You must know. I have a huge ego and no confidence. Well, that's the way it goes. I know. So that's what I am. You have no confidence?

I think I'm a better actor than I used to think that I know. So that's what I am. You have no confidence? I think I'm a better actor than I used to think that I was. I think I got away with a lot for 20 years. I'll tell you, I thought in a serious man that... If you come from a large middle-class Jewish family, they have one of those. Yeah. Yes. And the genius, the broken genius.

And I just thought it was so deep and so moving and so right on the money. It was brutal. I thought it was a brilliant performance. I'm glad. I'm really proud of the movie, the role, that I'm part of it. Again, I look at my life as where do I stand

in the legacy of greatness? And I think the cones are great. And no matter what happens, I am part of the legacy. If they have a retrospective, they're going to show a serious man and I'm going to be part of it. It's one of their best movies. Absolutely. And at the time, it was the crew's favorite movie. I don't know whether it's anymore, but while we were doing it, they were saying, this is ours. I think it's the brother's favorite. It's so personal. It's so specific.

Yeah. And they don't give a fuck. They don't. They really don't. And they are so goddamn, like I said this to a friend of mine about them. It's like, you know, everything is on purpose. You know, there's nothing kind of like, you know, surprising to them in the sense of like they know what they're shooting okay i'm gonna tell you something i was interviewed for charlie rose yeah around that time

yeah around when it came out and i'm on with them yeah and i made a flippant comment like they know what this movie looks like before they start rolling. Yeah. And I remember Joel looking at me like, this is a little insulting. But it wasn't. They know. Like what you just said, it's not surprising to them. They know how it's going to edit together. Hitchcock was the same way.

Yeah. His whole movie was done before he started rolling. He used to not like filming. Yeah. That whole movie was done before he started rolling. He used to not like filming. Yeah. That's just, who needs it? They're just so goddamn smart. Smarter than us.

I love, I love working or watching something that's smarter than us. I think Harold Pinter, I think Cooper does. Oh my God,

I've watched a few of the Pinter movies. The ones that, the British movies that he did. Do you know the? Yeah, like the Go Between or, yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, the ones, the British movies that he did. Do you know the- Yeah, like the Go-Between or- Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

Yeah, they did it on the Criterion Channel, a bunch of Pinter screenplays. It's so, like the Spaceman, the Homecoming. Holy shit. Oh, you did see the Homecoming. I did. Because a lot of them are very linear when he writes for movies. Homecoming is a play. Yeah, I know.

And that is, where does he come up with that? The Pumpkin Eater, the other one with Dan Bancroft. What do you think of that? I loved it. Okay, I saw it when I was young, young, young. I didn't understand a word of it. Heavy. And I got to watch it again.

And then there's the other one that he wrote with, I think, Joe Losey. Was it The Accident? Did Pinter write The Accident? The Accident, I think The Servant. The Servant, maybe. The Accident is one that, like, i remember it was taught in a film class i had and i was like what am i missing and it's like but you know it you know he created a space man jewish guy british jews i like the british jews okay i didn't know he was jewish he is i had no idea but he i i don't

understand how he writes no it's i don't either. The Homecoming is crazy. Crazy. It's great. Have you done that play? I haven't. I'd like to. I'd like to do The Birthday Party. Have you ever seen The Birthday Party?

I didn't see it, no. Oh, see The Birthday Party because Jewish gangsters in that. Is that a movie too? No, it's just a play. I don't know. But you did The Big Knife. I did The Big Knife. That movie's hard to find.

And it's not great. Okay, I'm going to tell you. I love it. Okay, it's not great. Rod Steiger, I thought, was fantastic until I did the role, and he was horrible. Well, I'll agree with that, but Palance was great. Palance is great in it. Oh, my gosh.

Shelley Winters? Yes. Yes, Shelley Winters is great. Great. Oh, the woman who plays. Shelley Winters? Yes. Yes. Shelley Winters is great. Oh. The woman who plays Mrs. Maisel, now on TV, played Shelley Winters' role when we did it on Broadway. And Bobby Cannavale did it.

I did it twice. I did it at Williamstown, directed by Joanne Woodward. Okay. You want to? Okay. Here's something. Okay. Okay.

Here's something. I have my list of the greatest compliments. Yes. This is a great something. Okay, okay. Here's something. I have my list of the greatest compliments. Yes. This is a great compliment. Okay. Joanne Woodward directed The Big Knife. Yeah. Was it a play before?

No. It was a play. Oh, it started as a play, and then it became a film. Okay, fine. I come out of the stage door. It was written for John Garfield, about John Garfield. No kidding. I come out of the stage door, and somebody jumps on my back, arms around my neck like I can't breathe.

Yeah. And he goes, kid, you're like a locomotive. Once you get going, there's no stopping you. And it was Paul Newman. You remember those compliments? Yeah. Paul Newman. I know.

Isn't that crazy? What a great actor. Yeah. Great. And to have him say that. That's Paul Newman. Paul Newman. I know, isn't that crazy? What a great actor. Yeah, great. And to have him say that. That's so beautiful. It was nuts. Nuts, nuts. I saw Odette's play,

what is it, Golden Boy? That's the boxing one, right? Yeah, and Tony Shalhoub and I were nominated for Supporting Actor. He's spectacular. Shalhoub. It's a wrestling picture. Shalhoub is one of those guys

who never, his volume never rises above a certain level. He's so good. He's so underplayed. He's like Alan Arkin. He's so underplayed. And I am so the opposite of that.

So you guys worked together? No, we've never worked together. But, you should do it. But we were against each other for the for the Tonys and we both lost. Ah. And um. Where did you train? After high school. The school of hard knocks. Uh, I um, honestly

Second City. Okay. Yeah. I mean I took acting classes. Why do you say it like that? I mean that is the, who was there when you were there? Because that is not an official place to learn i think when you say where did you train you're talking about hp studios you're talking about carnegie mellon but you go out on stage every night you get to learn to be better and then to be honest where did i learn i think it's like ge George Clooney, for bringing him up, but he worked in front of a single camera for long enough.

On ER? Oh, way before that. For years and years and years so that when he got to ER, he was able to become great after having worked. I mean, you don't know the lousy shit he's done. Yeah, no, I get it. Yeah, on TV. TV, Return of the Rotten of the yeah it's horrible but that's true like i like i realized that when i

did my show is like i know i'm gonna suck for at least two seasons because you got to get comfortable you got to figure out you do you know i still gotta figure it out i still barely know where my camera is my family i'm always i said it over there? But you do. It becomes, now becomes second nature. Well, you got to ask sometimes. Yes, but you do learn, but you learn.

Yeah. You know, after you learn which is camera right, camera left, you do learn. A great one, and I'll do it with you now,

is David Steinberg said, if the camera's over there, look at the eye closest to the camera. Like, I can look at both eyes now. Yeah. He taught me to look like this

into the one eye. Yeah. Astounding. Little stuff like this into the one eye. Yeah. It's astounding. Little stuff. Michael Caine has an hour thing. Watch it. On acting?

On acting for camera. For camera. Oh, interesting. Wonderful. Well, Jeff Daniels once looked at me and he's like, you've got to learn how to use your face. Really? Because like he said,

almost all movie acting is face. Yeah, it is. It's wild. I never even thought of that. It's why I'm better on stage. What do you mean? You've got acting is face. Yeah, it is. It's wild. I never even thought of that. It's why I'm better on stage. What do you mean? You got a great face. But I use it too much.

I'm better on stage. It's hard for me. You overused your face? What? You overexpressed? I do. I do. Like I say,

I'm not Tony Saloub or Alan Arkin. Alan Arkin is huge, but he hardly moves. There are flames on my car. There are flames on my car. There are flames on my car. Funny thing. Joe. When I was at Second City, if somebody,

an alumni wanted to come on and play and improvise, we'd do it. So I come out and I say, and Dan Castellanetti used to do a great Alan Arkin. So I come out and I go, joining us in the set tonight, the great Alan Arkin. So I'd come out and I'd go, joining us in the set tonight, the great Alan Arkin. Dan would be backstage over the microphone going,

I don't want to play. I don't want to come on. And I'd go, Alan, come on. You're so good at this. No, no, I can't do it. I don't want to do it. And I'd go, Alan, come on. Everybody's waiting.

No, I'm scared. I don't want to improvise like that. I'd go, I'm sorry, folks. The audience hated us. That's hilarious. Yeah. He, yeah, he's sort of an interesting actor. Alan? Yeah.

Do you know that guy? I do. Yeah. I do. Nice man? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

In my head, I'm thinking of the story that I want to tell you, so let me be emphatic. Not a nice man, a great man. Oh, that's sweet. Great joke. Yeah. Okay. Here's the story. Yeah.

This is the type of story that you can't believe you live in the world that you live. Alan Arkin calls me up. Calls me. Yeah. Out of all the people

in Hollywood, all the people in Hollywood. Yeah. He calls me. Uh-huh. He's going to be hired for this movie and he's going to be working

with this actor. I had worked with him. Should he take it? Yeah. Me! Yeah. He's asking me! Yeah.

And I start telling him. Yeah, about the actor. About the actor. What do I recommend? Yeah. And I told him, but I couldn't believe he's calling me. Yeah.

And I said, look, he's going to because you're Alan Arkin. He's going to be great. He's going to ask for a lot of takes. Yeah. And I said, look, he's going to because you're Alan Arkin, he's going to be great. He's going to ask for a lot of takes. Yeah. Okay? So you're going to

have to work a lot. He's going to ask for take after take after take. He's also very funny. Yeah. But not nearly as funny as you.

Right. He thinks he could tell a great joke, but he can't tell a joke as good as you. Yeah. So he's going to be competitive. Right.

And that's what I told him. Did he take the job? He ended up not doing the job. Do I need this shit? Yeah. Right. So that's what it was. That's hilarious.

I know, but he calls me. He called me. No, it's beautiful because he knew you'd be honest. I guess so. It's just, oh, yes. And I was. I was honest. I mean, you know, it's like guys like Alan Arkin, he knows you, he's got a feeling.

He's like, I just want, just give me, you know, you know me. Right. You know what I'm asking you. Right. But the thing is, is that, okay, I think I'm the smartest guy with the best opinions. And then I find out I'm not the smartest guy, and I don't have the best opinion. But that wasn't an opinion question. Sure it was.

No, it wasn't. What's a guy do? You just listed, like, he did a lot of takes. These are my opinions. Thinks he's funny. Okay, but it's my opinions. I guess. It's your experience.

It's different than opinions. Okay, all right. But I sometimes think it's like I want to be the best guest here. I want to be the most fascinating guest. Well, I'm not going to be. What are you talking about? Who judges like that? Of course.

That's how I think, though, Mark. It's how I live my life. I meet some people and want them to like me more than they like the friends they've known for 30 years. It's crazy. So that's what's driving it. Sometimes. Here I thought it was spirituality and joy no oh no i'm an actor feed me baby feed me it's just you're a need machine

yes i am it's okay yeah yeah there you go there you go okay this interview is over charismatic need machine the sweet need machine yeah but when was the i mean there must have been Get out. Get out. The charismatic mead machine. The sweet mead machine. Yeah. But when was the, I mean, there must have been a moment there, like, because you've done a lot of theater. And you clearly, you love it. You love it. I love it, love it, love it.

I do. And is that- But for short amounts of time. More than four to six months. Oh, God, shoot me. Really? Why? Just the repetition?

Yeah. It's, I've had enough. However, getting to that point, the most thrilling thing in the world. Yeah. Thrilling. But ultimately, the TV acting, you're just an all-around actor, but are you satisfied doing television? I mean, the process of it and everything else?

No. I'll tell you why. Yeah. and everything else? No. I'll tell you why. Yeah. When you do a TV show,

Right. your goal is to make your day. Right. The director has 10 pages to shoot. Yes. Must make the day. Right. Doesn't matter what happens.

Doesn't matter how good you are. Yeah. Make your day. Right. That is not acting correctly. Right. So I work very hard on the lines

and I come to the set never have a problem with my lines. You're going to America will hear the lines the way the the way the

writer wrote them. He's going to get he's going to get them. You want to be as good as you can. I've been lucky enough to work twice with Kathy Bates.

The first time I played her boyfriend on a show where she was a lawyer. Yeah. I'm telling you, the size of that picture, that frame. Yeah. Three pages of monologue to the jury. Perfect every time. And she would sit down. No, she didn't get it.

And I told her, told her. This was her first TV show. I said, you must be able to accept that you will never be as good as you want to be. Because they're going to give you four or five takes. Right. You're going to have three hours to do this scene, where when you do a play, you have a month so that the lines are second nature. When you do a movie, you have a month to learn it. Maybe you're lucky enough to have rehearsal, or you have a day where instead of 10 pages, they're shooting

three quarters of a page. Right. This is TV. TV was made to sell furniture and beer and cars. Everybody thinks, why isn't a show better? Why aren't they bringing my show back? We are the bookends for commercials. Right. That's what we are. Yeah.

Okay? Things have changed now. With Amazon and Netflix, you got unlimited funds, and that speech to the jury can take two days. Right. But not on network TV. Right. Or not on the TV that we're talking about. And you told her, was she appreciative? Yes. She still wanted to do it great, but she couldn't. And she was, but she could never be.

Right. I said, I call it the drive home. You're driving home. You go, oh, why didn't I do that? I know. Yes, God damn it. Why didn't I do that? Why didn't I say this word like that? Oh, that's what the author meant. You do a play.

Yeah. You don't have those rides home. Right. Or if you do, you could try it the next night. Right. It's great. But there must have been some, is there, are there things that you've done where you're like, I did it.

I nailed that. Oh, absolutely. Oh, absolutely. Oh, absolutely. But if I see something, if I ask to see it back, because I don't watch myself. But if I see a playback, I don't listen to it. I only see my face, which is what Jeff Daniels was talking about. Use your face. I know what the words are, and I can't stand the way I talk.

But let me see. Do I believe what I look like? Right. Did you do plays in high school? A couple. Do you remember? Actually, junior high. You remember the picture that they took, and you look very staged.

Sure. Okay, when they put it in the newspaper. You're trying to act like a grown-up. Whatever. Whatever it was, the picture doesn't look real. Now they take a picture while I'm acting, or they'll take a still and excise it from the film. I look like I'm there. I don't look like I'm acting.

Yeah, that's the thing, man. I mean, this last movie I did a few months ago was the first time I really... Because I thought to myself, if I'm going to do this acting, I should figure out how to apply whatever craft I've learned over time and also how to take risks and also how to enjoy doing it and to be in the process.

It was a whole different experience, really. Well, you're great in... Globe? Joker? The wonderful movie. Oh sort of trust the uh which one god almighty i i cannot how many movies have i done yet no it's sort of trust oh i did you get the email that i wrote you after her passing um i i think i did yeah i did i didn't respond to it i i think i felt like i responded to it you didn't i'm sorry'm sorry. It's okay. It's okay. But what I told you was

I got to meet her once for coffee. She was casting something. And did you mind talking about this? Yeah. No, I don't mind. Sometimes I get emotional. Sometimes I don't. Go ahead. My fantasies were I went out with her.

She was married at the time. She had a career. She didn't even hire me for the film. Yeah. But my fantasies were, this is some great lady. Yeah, right, right. So that's how I spent, after an hour of talking to her. Yeah. This is how I felt.

Right, yeah. When you invest months, years of your life, I don't know how long you went out. I didn't even know about it. And I thought, wow. And so my heart broke for you. My heart breaks for the world because I thought. She was great. Yeah.

Everything, everything about her seemed great. Yeah. I don't know. So my point is, is that you have it somewhere. I hear you ask great actors about their how do you do it, what do you think of. And you know it enough. You and I are not that talented. We have personality, and we have a character, and we meet the character halfway.

Daniel Day-Lewis, he goes way over. He submerges himself. I don't submerge. I meet the character halfway. But I had a teacher who said, you play pretend. Well, that's the thing, yeah. You play pretend.

If I'm in this situation, I play pretend. And pretend seems like it's a happy thing. But if you're Willie Loman, pretend is not a happy thing. Let me pretend I really am going to eventually kill myself because of my circumstances. I'm pretending. It's not fun.

Yeah. I don't know how somebody does salesman every night. What did you learn at Second City? Who was with you there when you were there? I had great people. They're not as well known as some of the, and I have my theories about it, but do you know who Megan Fay is? John Kapilos, Mike Haggerty.

I was lucky enough to be there with Bonnie Hunt, who did become famous, and Mike Myers, who I worked with. And I was lucky to work with a lot of people who did become famous, but the succeeding generations were much more proactive with their careers and with their need to produce. My company, along with me, waited by the phone to get called. And I still do that. I'm not as proactive. I've never produced anything. I've never said, hey, I've got this project. Let's go do it. That's how we were. You're proactive. Who would have ever thought podcasting was something to do? Yeah, but I needed to talk to people. I don't know if it was, it wasn't based on ambition. It was based originally on desperation.

Okay, you're lucky. You stepped in it. Yeah, for once in my life, something lined up. Right, exactly. You're right. You're lucky. You're lucky. So how's Larry doing? All right? Yeah, oh yeah. Well, I did a show recently. And, you know, he writes the scenarios. Yeah. And so I read the scenario and everything.

And then I thought of one thing that might be funny. Yeah. And it worked. Oh, good. And every once in a while, you know, he gives you sort of the leeway of what you could do. And he wrote a double and I hit a triple. Oh, good. And it a triple. Oh, good. And it was great.

Oh, good. And working with him, I'm a giggler. Yeah. Larry is a giggler. Yeah. And there was an episode once where we giggled and giggled and giggled. And then finally Larry got over it, but I hadn't. And it's like he's looking at me like, all right, that's enough already.

That's enough. That happened with Carol Burnett too. We giggled, we giggled. She loved it. And then already, he's looking at me like, all right, that's enough already. That's enough. That happened with Carol Burnett too. We giggled, we giggled. She loved it and then already, that's enough. That's no more. And I can't stop it. Giggling has nothing to do with my- It's weird when that happens. It is weird.

You know what a famous one was? What? The movie The Fly with Vincent Price and Herbert Marshall. Yeah. Took them two, like they were maybe given two days to shoot that scene. It took them much longer because they couldn't believe that these two, at the time, such great English actors were talking about a man who became a fly. And they giggled. They couldn't stop it?

They couldn't stop. Well, I enjoy talking to you. I love talking to you. I am sincere when I see you. I'm really happy to see you because I love you, your work. Thank you. And then I love everything. And I was really happy to be here.

And I like talking about me. Do you feel okay about our time here? Yes. Good. I do. Good. I'm a decent interview. I said I want to be the best. I know I'm going to be a decent interview. I said I want to be the best.

I know I'm going to be a decent interview. You know what you are? I'll tell you what. Go ahead. No one is like you. That is... Okay. No one is like you.

Thank you. You are unto yourself, an original. No one's like you. So in that way, you can only be- I can only be the best. Exactly. I understand. And therefore, I'll live with it.

I am the best. I love you, man. I love you. Richard Kind, that was just an engaged conversation. It wasn't even like, it was just all of a sudden we're talking. And then after that, after we talked, we went in the house. I asked him if he wanted some smoked sable and some pickled onions and some beets and horseradish. He said no.

And then I said, it's good. He goes, okay. So we ended up eating lunch together in my house and gossiping off mic about people. You know how that goes. about people you know that goes richard is in a show called everything's gonna be okay which airs thursday nights on freeform and is streaming the next day on hulu and now i'm gonna play the same three or so chords i always play but they sound different Thank you. Boomer lives. Monkey. La Fonda.

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