WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1231 - William Zabka

Episode Date: May 31, 2021

William Zabka spent the ‘80s playing a variety of bullies all seemingly modeled after his star-making performance in his first movie, The Karate Kid. But by the time he was in Back to School, William grew tired of playing the same jerk again and again. He tells Marc how he expanded his life beyond the typecasting, through music, through family, through world travel, through the arduous mounting of an Oscar-nominated short. And now, with Cobra Kai, it's all come full circle, as William finally gets the chance to explore the depth and pathos of the bully who started it all, Johnny Lawrence. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Lock the gates! all right let's do this how are you what the fuckers what the fuck buddies what the fuck nicks what's happening i'm mark maron this is my podcast wtf welcome to it how's it going how How are you doing? What's happening? It is Memorial Day. I do want to put my heart out there for people who have lost people in all fights. And I do again want to stress my gratitude to the people that had the courage to get vaccinated like fucking adults. That the idea right now, the people that had courage to take a hit for the herd and move forward, believing in science and with the belief that we could somehow push this virus back, we did it. Those are the people that fought for our freedom this year. The people that got vaccinated, not the belligerent babies who didn't get vaccinated for whatever reason.

I mean, I do have some empathy and understanding for people who haveent babies who didn't get vaccinated for whatever reason i mean i do have some empathy and understanding for people who have health issues that didn't want to get vaccinated but all those people that fought against the fight to stop the spread of the virus because of what they saw as the fight for their personal freedom can go fuck themselves on this Memorial Day. And again, I'm grateful for the people that just stepped up and did what was necessary to push back the virus so we could try to get back to some semblance of freedom and choice and an active way of life for everybody. Thank you. Thank you again. today on the show william zabka it happened he plays johnny lawrence uh in the in the karate kid and i don't know that i ever saw the karate

kid i really don't have recollection of seeing that whole movie but i was you know flipping around during the plague and uh came upon cobra kai of course, I recognized him from back to school and other things. He holds a place in my mind. But the way he was playing, the old, kind of washed up, kind of broken Johnny Lawrence was astounding to me. Like he got it so right, so quickly that I assumed that had to be his life i was just so impressed with the

performance because it's very hard to do a broken bitter man and that you have empathy for angry you know it it's it's a it's a hell of a character and maybe it's because i relate on some level or that i understand it on some level, though I don't think that I was the most empathetic character for a long time, but I just was so impressed with his acting that I really wanted to talk to him. And we tried to get him on the show earlier this year, but he got called back to set, so we waited until he was done shooting for the season, and we got him. It is a uh it is it is a zoom interview hopefully those will start uh passing it it's it's wild to be out in the world man

i'll tell you but he's here zabka is here it's wild to be out doing the shows you know at the comedy store with the vaxxed crowds or the tested crowds with the mask was you know just like randomly like there's a habit to putting on the mask do we put it on after do we do when we're talking i don't know man i'm vaxxed all vaxxed up i'll get all the vaccines i will do it i'm trying to make things right is that the journey doing the right thing making things right fighting for justice making things right we have no justice. Making things right. We have no control over anything really. Very little.

How do you make things right? Is there a way to do it on a big scale? It's hard. Small scale? Yes, sometimes. Through action. Through humility. Through anger?

Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes we'll have to look at it as a metaphor, don't we? Sometimes. Sometimes it's not about people. Sometimes it's just about making things right for you. For you. Right?

Sometimes you can see things that happen to you as bad luck or why me or fuck. You know? If you're stuck in that zone how do you make things right well you can't live in that you don't want to live in victim mode you don't want to kind of manifest it because you're stuck in it you got to make things right sometimes i bought three fucking watermelons the other day three watermelons what's that got to do with it i'll tell you what's got to do with it. If any of you have been following me for a while, you know that I was pretty confident about

my watermelon selection ability. I was pretty confident that I had it down. I was pretty confident that if I stuck my ear to the melon and knocked on it, that if it sounded hollow, if it sounded like I'm knocking on the door of an empty closet, that was the melon for me. If it had the nice yellowy, creamy yellow spot where it sat on the soil, that was the melon for me. I was almost cocky in my ability to choose watermelon. So watermelons are back. I went out and bought one, cut it open. It sounded right. It knocked correctly. No good. Really thick rind rind sweet flesh but the flesh was very kind of chewy you don't want chewy watermelon that stinks and i didn't want to take the hit it wasn't that expensive i don't want to sit there and have an unpleasurable experience eating crappy

watermelon though the sweetness was correct it's not i don't want chewy watermelon, garbage. Mad. How was I deceived? Who deceived me? Is this a trick? Has God forsaken me? I go out, I buy another melon. I buy another fucking melon, a big melon, 25, 26 pounder. Knock it. Sounds good. Nice. Creamy yellow spot. Get it it home cut it open too good too close i got like a fucking 50 pound watermelon that needs to be eaten that day too much little mealy not perfect went out and bought a third melon i'm confident i'm confident i'm holding off on it but i feel good about it so i'm just gonna believe right now i'm gonna about it so i'm just going to believe right now i'm going to have a few days of reprieve where i believe that made things right that's sitting on my counter is the answer is the closure i'm looking for that's hope that third melon is hope

you hear me? I'll let you know how it goes. William Zabka is doing a great job in Cobra Kai. He's done some interesting, he did an interesting short film a while ago. You all know him if you're of a certain age from his childhood roles as the bully kid. Cobra Kai is now streaming seasons one through three on Netflix.

Season four will come out later this year. And since Emmy voting starts soon, make sure you check it out because Billy's performance is definitely worthy of a nomination. This is me and William Zabka talking. Very nice guy. Nothing like the character.

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how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category, and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Is that your basement? Yeah. Yeah yeah they give you a tour oh look at that that's nice yeah it's a hangout spot we got the happy hour in here oh wow so this is for when when you have an argument with your wife you can move into the

basement or not have an argument this is just my i, I'm going to go downstairs and I do sleep down here sometimes, but that's just to give her a piece because I stir a lot. You sleep down there sometimes? That's what it is. It looks like a studio, but it's just, I hate this new lighting thing. This new Zoom stuff is just, I like the old days. I would rather be there in person. You sleep down there sometimes?

Yeah. There's a bedroom there. It's nice. I watch a movie. I don't want to wake her up. Oh, there's a bedroom there. It's nice. You know, I watch a movie. I don't want to wake her up. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. How long have you lived out of L.A.?

I just moved out. We moved out in November. The show, we shoot in Atlanta. Yeah. I have two little ones. I got an 11 and a 7-year-old. And, you know, L.A. was just too tense for us. My brother's out here.

My in-laws are close by. So we decided to pull the trigger and come to a nice, peaceful setting. And L.A., like, all of a sudden it got too tense after, what, decades? Well, you know, the last year was nutty, man. I was more for my kids. Everything, baseball was starting, and, you know, we had to kill that. We had to kill gymnastics. You know, all of a sudden they're just like, my six-year-old was, she, you know we had to kill that we had to kill gymnastics you know all of a sudden they're just like my six-year-old was she you know she has two cognitive years of life and and one of

them is with a mask on so coming here was a little more relaxed and uh it's closer to family and uh yeah i really you know i was the last one i reluctantly pulled the trigger my wife was on board with it and i said okay i miss la i was just there i just was there board with it. And I said, okay, I miss LA. I was just there. I just was there last weekend. It was good to be home. You know, that'll always be home. Did you press? Yeah, I did. We did.

We presented at the MTV awards and then a lot of photo shoot stuff for the show. And then the day after that, I surprised my mom for her 80th birthday. Me and my brother flew in. She had no idea we were coming. And, you know, she was in the house and we just walked in with balloons and yeah that's great yeah it was good stuff and then i flew home so i'm like you know it's been every day has been jam-packed and then came home and now now here it's good you know that's the ride uh it's just your mom lives here oh no they live in they live

near um lake tahoe so they're up Grass Valley. Are you familiar with that area? Your folks are? Yeah. They're both around? My dad's 96. My mom just turned 80. My dad's a World War vet. Eight brothers, two left.

And he's 96 years old and rocking, man. I mean, you know, he's got his age is showing, but he he's as sharp as a tack his memory and his recall is is insane he wrote a book of his life like a couple 96 years old yeah i'll send you a picture of me i mean it's unbelievable he's really uh he's inspiring you know that's some genetic uh blessing yeah let's hope let Wow. It is. Yeah, yeah. So I'll tell you honestly, it was a weird thing. And I don't know when it happened. I don't know how I got to Cobra Kai. I don't know.

Because I don't remember seeing the Karate Kid. I don't remember seeing it in my life. I know it happened. I know there's elements of it. I know what the story is. I recognize you from other things, but for some reason, I just clicked on that thing without knowing anything about it

before it got any real attention. And I was like, holy shit, this guy is really doing this thing. Like you. Like, I mean, you know, everyone else is fine. And I'm glad that they found the guy who, you know, the evil guy, you know, your old teacher.

I'm glad he was still around to do it. But I thought you were really doing this role. And to the point where I'm like, he's got he's probably like this. This is probably things that work out for this guy. And this is like he's finally getting a chance to just be himself. But it's not true, is it? No, he's so polar opposite of me. I mean, coming into this was, you know, they gave him nothing.

They took away his, he has nothing. He's got a beer can. He doesn't even have a fish. I know, but you're really acting. Yeah, you know what? I'll tell you what. How does it happen? I mean, I remember the couple of scenes I did at the beginning. My first scene in the show was with Ed Asner, who took me to school.

I've worked with him, and he's going to give it to you. two minutes ago and he goes uh we do a rehearsal and he calls me over and he says hey how am i you know is there anything else i can give you i said no you're doing great i said you know how about you you do anything he goes off go fuck yourself i said and i was like he did it in character and he rattled me and he got me in this place and i'm like shit is that as i really said then i'm like no he's doing this device which he does all the time off camera off screen man he's just constantly when you're when it's not on you but yeah i don I don't know. I just sat, I just sat in it. I know this guy. He's he's, you know, there's elements of me in there for sure. I mean, that's how you do it. And it's about sitting in your belly and letting it happen. And trust me, you know, this guy,

because yeah, they're around us. They're around us, yes. They're definitely around us. They're all around us. Yeah, oh, he's a prototype. I mean, you know, and the guys, it's, you know, he's also a working man. He's trying to make it. But I think what got me was like, you know, somehow or another, and I don't know if it's having, you know, historically,

wherever I've got you in my brain from when I was younger, you know, that guy that you were known for playing, that this seemed like the reasonable evolution of this guy. Just from going to, like, high school reunions, you know, there's an element of, like, that guy on his best behavior can't hide that he's, like, fucking pissed off and he's beaten. Yeah. But you still feel bad for i mean you the thing wouldn't work if you weren't empathetic and i don't know i think that just happens you know it's a testament to your acting but i i guess if you play that guy for real you're gonna feel sorry for him but you gotta ride a line because it's funny because that character was an asshole and he's still an asshole but he's sad well you know yeah you know there's something about there's a comfort of watching a guy that's struggling you know if he was on top of the world if he was the guy that

owned the dealership and he was in the suit you know he'd be a complete prick so right you know you give him a beer and and give him a little old tv and some remotes that don't work and you know uh and he's suddenly empathetic and endearing you know um with his old muscle car yeah his old muscle car all that stuff but when this happened man when wait like when they said to you we're gonna do these again i mean i i mean you seem to keep working at one thing or another but what were were you like, are you kidding me for real? Yeah. Yes. Yes. That was my instant, my instant thing. The guys that you did, the creators, Josh healed, who wrote hot tub time machine. He put gave me a role in that in 2010.

And then John Horowitz and Hayden Schlossberg, the other two creators did Harold and Kumar. I knew those guys. Always in the back of my mind, wanted to work with them. The three of them email me out of the blue, say, Hey, we have an idea for a movie or a show. We'd love to sit down and talk with you. My mind's going forward. Hot tub time machine part five, right? Harold and Kumar stick. You go to a little Mexican restaurant and they throw Cobra Kai at me with, with the fact that they had Sony signed off on it.

They had Overbrook Weintraub's estates. So they came with all the, I said, you can't just go and play with, you know, IP from Sony. Like, you know, and they said, well, everybody signed off. I said, wow, what's next? They said, well, you, and then, then we have to go get Ralph. So, but I was, I was in shock. I, you know, it was like a girlfriend coming back and saying, I want to get back together. It's like, how close do I let this get to me? Because if it doesn't work out, you know, I've entertained that. And that would be a real big disappointment. So I held it very, very, very loosely and all the way up to the point where we pitched it and it got made. I mean, and then we did the end of season one.

I remember the end of season one, sitting in a car, doing a little drive around with the, with the camera car and, and making a video saying, well, you know, this may be it, this could be the end of the ride. So, you know, hope you enjoyed the show. And then it kind of took off. So you consciously, just from experience, you're like, I'm not going to get too excited about this.

Right. Which we do as actors. You know, how many times you go on an audition, you pour your heart, you have to leave it on the mat. You can't take it home. You have to do your best, leave it in the room. And you somehow have to play a trick on your brain that that didn't just happen. And then it has to come back. And then it keeps kind of having to tap you on the shoulder, surprising you. And then you go, Oh, really? You're interested.

Okay. Oh, it's going to happen. You know, it's like, yeah, you, you have to do that. Otherwise, you know, you get your hopes up and you go there. I don't go there until the cameras are rolling. Was that a lesson hard learned? I mean. Yeah. Oh, sure. Right. I mean.

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, many times. I mean, all the times I've left my heart in a room for a movie or a part and felt like, oh, man, I just rocked the world. And I'm going to get that. And then, you know, did you hear anything? No. A week goes by, two weeks. All those. Those are like mini heartbreaks constantly. And I'm going to get that. And then, you know, did you hear anything? No, a week goes by, two weeks go.

All those, those are like mini heartbreaks constantly. It's like over and over again. You're just constantly being rejected. And then the ones that I get, which are funny to me, are the ones where I just stunk up the room. Where I just felt like, oh, that sucked. And then I walked out. And I'm like, should I walk back in and do it again? And like, ah, no, I lost it.

It's not happening. Then they call back and say, they loved you. I don't know what you did. They said you stumbled on your lines, but they love you for the part. Yeah. There's no rhyme or reason. So you could do as an artist, you just got to go in, lay it on the table and, uh, and then move on in your real life and your reality.

Cause otherwise it takes over, at least it did for me. And, uh, I didn't like that. So, and especially with this character, with Johnny and karate kid, this, that, this thing has been 35 years of my, I've been in the wake of this for this long. And for this to come on me and not work out would have been probably, you know, super disappointing, you know, to entertain that. Did you feel like, I mean, have, have the, has there been a time in this racket where did you feel like you were done or do you always feel like you're still in? Wow. That's a great question. No, I never felt like I was done.

No, I never felt like I was done, even when I was probably done. You know, I mean, you can't allow yourself to feel that way. But I don't ride on when it's working or when it's not working. But I don't ride on when it's working or when it's not working. You kind of have to just know it, and you kind of incubate it, and it's not here yet. It's more like that was the thing for me. It's coming, it's coming, it's coming.

I tell my wife, it's coming, it's coming. Yeah, I just had an instinct in that. It's all I have, man. It's like they asked me, what would you do if you weren't doing this? Well, I'd be writing, producing, or doing something because I was just, it's in my blood and my DNA to do this. But did you grow up in show business? Yeah, I grew up.

I was five years old. The first time I went to NBC Studios, my dad was the associate director of The Tonight Show at Johnny Carson. Here in LA? New York. Oh, the old one. The old one, yeah. So I was born in this city.

I lived in Long Island. And my dad would take me to work when I was five years old. He was an Emmy award-winning director of the Doctor's soap opera. And he met my mom. My mom was Johnny Carson's brother's assistant on The Tonight Show, which is where they met, fell in love, got married. And so I would go to NBC with my dad and walk around the sets and be in control rooms. Was he buddies with Johnny? Oh, yeah.

He was on The Tonight Show, my dad. He was also a composer. My dad wrote a lot of theme songs for television. Was he buddies with Johnny? Oh yeah. He was on the tonight show. My dad, he actually, he was, he was also a composer. He, my dad wrote a lot of theme songs for television. Really? So he got to go on. Yeah.

Oh gosh. Searching wind. I don't know. Midnight four. I don't know. Old stuff, you know, back in the sixties and those days, I don't even know what they are,

but he wrote a theme song and he wrote a, he had a whole themes album and Johnny gave him a spot to come on and he got to you know play his piano and conduct the whole orchestra there and so yeah so i grew up in that and then we moved we transported from new york when i was 10 he went to nbc la with the tonight show now the tonight show he was a staff director at new york and nbc and he got transferred to california so we pulled the roots up when I was 10 years old and then ended up in LA. And then he soon after, for whatever reason, left NBC and became a UPM first AD for tons of things, a love boat

and worked with Clint Eastwood and all that. So I was Chuck Norris when I was a kid. So I grew up around it. And my dad, well, and he's gonna be listening. So I'm gonna say, hey, Pop. But the first thing I ever acted in was a documentary that he directed. And he wrote this song for it called And They Were Five. And we shot it in my backyard in New York with all my little neighbor buddies.

And it's about five best friends that grew up and ended up going to war inevitably to Vietnam and didn't come home. Oh, my God. grew up and ended up going to war inevitably to Vietnam and didn't come home. Oh my God. So I played one of the five kids and it's this really kind of dramatic thing in the backyard with us going down slides and pulling a little helicopter goes in the air. And then that helicopter transports into a documentary of Vietnam. And it was a beautiful thing, but that was my first time. Yeah.

So my dad directed me in my first thing. And I remember being five years old and looking at my dad in the corner of my eye up on the roof with the camera, DP, just shooting down at me. And it just, I know it sounds crazy, but I was that little and I'm thinking, I'm going to do that someday. That looks fun. That's all I know. Maybe he's a truck driver. I'd be like, I'll be driving. No, I mean, it's exciting. Yeah, it was great. And then I got into commercials when I was 10. So you were like a bonafide kind of child actor. You were going out for all these things, no?

It was a hobby, though. It was like, you know, I played baseball, football. So it was a hobby initially, but until I guess the Karate Kid was the break? Or you did TV? Yes. Yeah, no, I didn't. I didn't do anything. I did one episode of The Greatest American Hero in high school, and that was like one

line. But I think my attitude to it, my dad always told me like when we first got into commercials when I was 10, I asked him if we had enough money to be on TV. And he goes, what do you mean? They pay you to be on TV. I'm like, wait, they pay you to be on television? So let's do it. You know, so went out on a bunch of commercials and then come home bummed if I

didn't get one and he said listen if you're gonna take it seriously and you're gonna get sad if you don't get it I'm gonna pull you out and go play football and I said okay so my attitude always was to to do it as a hobby to hold it loosely that's been my attitude since day one and it's still in a sense my attitude towards it I hold it loose. Did you have siblings? I do. I have a sister and a brother. Are they in the game? No, we all started together in commercials,

but they moved in different directions, yeah. Oh, yeah? Yeah, my brother became a musician and a songwriter, and my sister married a great guy and became a teacher and a family man, family woman. Wow. My dad was music and film. My brother went in the music way. I went in the film way.

I was in film school after high school. I graduated high school, went to film school. Well, when you were a kid, did you go to acting classes? No, I didn't go to acting classes. I went to a few in my life. Not that I don't need them or couldn't have used them. I've talked to guys who who like women and men who, like it's weird when they're successful at acting and they didn't train.

I can't remember who the last guy was. I just talked to somebody that was like that. He's like, no, you know what? I never went, never went. Yeah, but that's right. I never did go, but my training was working. I was thrown into it. Like Karate Kid was a great example.

It was my first movie out of nowhere. I get this part and a big part in the film. I remember auditioning and doing one scene in the movie, but then they gave me the part and I said, wow, now I have to do this whole character movie. And I was really green. And I remember walking with Pat Morita in the back lot of Columbia and saying, Hey, it's my first movie. If you have any insights,

or if you see anything I could do different, please let me know. And he did and he would. And then I got more 80 kind of teen comedy type things. And then I worked on The Equalizer with Edward Woodward. And that to me was like acting school because I worked with Robert Mitchum and Shirley Knight. Really? How old were you?

I was like 19, 20, 21. And those are just fantastic. Like classic. Shirley Knight. Desperate. Shirley Knight was my mom on the show. Yeah. And Robert Mitchum. Robert Mitchum. Yeah. Cause yeah, he came in Robert Mitchum, Robert Lansing. It was a great cast and the guest cast on it was incredible. It was all New York. Keith Zarabica was a great actor.

Dennis Spokieris, who's on a lot of stuff. So you're just able to sort of like watch these people? Well, and working with them. I mean, that really turned into acting class was just to work with them. And you got to rise to this level and you kind of watch and see how they're handling the material

and the pauses that they take and the time they take. Like Asner just lets so much dead air. He'll just let air. I know. He played my dad in a pilot. and it's like, you know, and he's scary. It's like, and what a sweet man. Yeah. He's scary, but what a sweet man. And he, he's such, I mean, he really is. I mean, not genius in a way.

I mean, he, he would, when it's my turn and he's, he's off camera, he'll, he'll screw his own lines up to throw me, to get something on my face. Then he'll say the line to me once. And now I'm supposed to be in some rhythm, like we're doing this back and forth, but he'll stop and he'll throw me five curve balls of the same line to get different reactions out of me. Cause he knows they're going to put it together and editing. Yeah. And when it's on him, he's doing the, he's even doing more of that. He just, he'll go all over the map. He hit his he hits his uh his lines but he'll go over the map and give all kinds of color yeah and so you learn from that you learn how to

be giving to to the to the actors that you're acting with off camera how important that is that you're feeding them and serving them so when you when you when you did the the karate kid the original one like i i mean i and you did in back to school, you played an asshole too, right? Yeah. Yeah. The diver,

he's a diving guy, right? Yeah. That was my, if I had to do anything again today, any project, it would be back to school again. It was the best time.

The movie was exactly what it was like off camera. We had a ball. Really? Um, yeah. Chaz. Oh yeah. It was a party,

you know, it was like, we, we all walked around in the frat houses in town and went to the comedy store and watched uh you know rodney and sam kinnison in the day and yeah it was a lot of fun it was a good fun set um but yeah i played a i played a douche in that he was the third one that was the one where i did back to karate kid then i did a movie called just one of the guys where i played another prick who was kind of unredeemable and then they offered me back to school what about national lampoon i'm trying to remember

national yeah yeah that's right that's right i did i did european vacation with were you a dick in that yeah yeah yeah we're total prick hey man if the shoe fits yeah but you yeah but back to school was that was fun that was fun and that was one where I was on the set of The Equalizer when that came in. And I remember asking Edward Woodward his opinion because I'm like, this is going to be the third dick I'm playing. I didn't say that word, but I'm like, third villain in a movie. What do you think? And he said, well, there's three reasons you take a movie. He says, one, it's the money.

Two, it's the people you're working with. Or three, the part's so great that you do it for free and you want to do it. So if it's one of those three, you can pick it. And at that point, it was one money too. It's the people you're working with are three, the part so great that you do it for free and you want to do it. So if it's one of those three, you can pick it. And at that point it was one or two. And I said, okay, so it's not so much the role, but then I approached that role going, I don't want to be the Dick. I want to be the hard Johnny or the Dick table presser in the other movie. So I made him the cowardly lion.

So he grew my hair long and he was this, he was all bark and no bite at the end of the movie, he gets a cramp and pusses out and i tried to make him more comedic and it was the comedy which worked for about half of the movie until alan metter who was directing it literally pulled me into his trailer and said hey man you're reading too funny and and where's the johnny from karate kid i'm like yeah he's in the karate kid dude i'm yeah i'm gonna do something different so you know i tried to have fun with him. I love, I love Chaz Osborne, you know? Yeah. Yeah. It was fun to play. I didn't know I was going to be,

that's where it was, you know, that's what I'd be mostly known for when you're doing them. You're just, you're happy to be working. It's a lot of fun. You know, you don't see 10, 10, 20 years down the line and what that's going to be. And it's still hanging over you. Yeah. But in a good way. And now you're back. Now I'm back. You know what? And it's really sweet. You know, it's still hanging over you yeah but in a good way but and now you're back now i'm back you know what and it's really sweet you know it's really sweet to be able to be a three-dimensional character as an anti-hero who's got some mud slung on him and uh fighting his way out well i mean it's kind of it's kind of funny that you know you were seen as this guy for all this time and then because it's so uh appropriately aged and you know and it's

it's almost like you finally get a chance to redeem yourself that's very much that it's that's right that's very much true and you know listen i always said to myself you know because johnny and karate kid is just constantly growing it's just it's always in my peripheral it's like the only way that i'm ever really going to get out of the shadow of this guy is if i can somehow go through the eye of the needle and play him again. Like I always felt like I'm going to need to go through him and turn him inside out and, and, and to have the opportunity to get to do that and show all the dimensions and all that stuff with 35 years of life and experience behind me. It's, it's a blessing, man. It's like, it's came out of the clouds and.

But wait a minute, you always were thinking about it? No, well, no, it was in the back of my mind though and really i mean it really was like you know that like that was stuck in your craw like man that guy i had to be that guy you know i walk around the world and people still see me as that guy yeah but uh yeah yeah it was subconscious it was so deep like a little voice way back there you know like i mean while i wasn't like focusing on this has to happen to make my my life right but it was you weren't doing like you weren't doing like youtube videos as johnny you know aging no but i actually did actually funny enough what opened this up is this music video i did called sweep the leg in 2008 this band wrote a song called sweep the leg you should check it out it's pretty funny

and uh they came to me and want me to be in this video i said the only way is if you let me write it direct it and i can bring the cast in and i kind of was the first time i stepped into the karate kid world again and threw it out there and had a big did a big spoof on myself and the feedback came in and it was like wow there's all these bands and cobra kai's out there and that's was a seed for me of like there's more that was when i was thinking okay how do we do this well there's a whole generation of of kids that like it was a defining movie yeah i mean that whole wax on wax off thing was like everywhere oh yeah sweep the leg get him a body bag all that started becoming the part of the american lexicon you know it's like everybody yeah and you were suspended you were like suspended in the amber of pop culture as this

asshole that's right yeah yeah that's right that's right i was the guy that took the crane kick to the face so yeah you know i yeah i'm that guy you know oh but man i tell you it's such a it's such a good it's such a sweet redemption you know because you just because it's funny because this character uh from the very get-go, is just taking hits in the face from life. He doesn't even know what a computer is, barely. At every turn, he's getting humbled. That's fun to play, and it's painful to play that, too.

It is painful because you're embodying this thing. I have to shave out 98% of who I really am to play this character i get to get into this really tight suit to play him and to shrink my head and to think this way and all that's uncomfortable yeah and um you know i like to live it as much as i can i mean i really do go through a process of living the emotion of this thing uh when we're shooting the seasons and and then i have to decompress and and uh and come back to life i didn't i didn't realize that you know you you actually did sort of one way or the other where there were three of these things i guess in the third karate kid you were it wasn't you were just it says archive footage whatever that means yeah i wasn't in three and

two i was only in the first five minutes so they can choke me out of the franchise. Why did that happen? Well, that was the ending of the original Karate Kid is after the crane kick, we go to the parking lot and Kreese chokes me out and Miyagi saves me. And that was the original ending as scripted for Karate Kid. But we never shot it because they knew they didn't need it in the film. And they said they'll open up Karate Kid 2 with that. So the ending of Karate Kid 1 became the first five minutes of Karate Kid 2. And I got literally choked out in a parking lot and dropped out of frame and out of the franchise. Did you not want to be in the franchise anymore? Or was that someone else's decision? No, I would have been happy to be. I was just, yeah, I would have to be.

Karate Kid 3, John Appleson called me and he wanted to see me he was doing he was doing some post production on one of his films and i went in and saw him and kind of looked at me he's like we're trying to figure out karate kid 3 and that almost happened yeah but hey it was fine i i'm happy with one and it could have just been that and that's all, you know. So like for the rest of it, though, it seems like there were some shows that kind of, you know, used you as to parody yourself. But then there was a lot of different little roles here and there in all these different kind of movies. Do you feel like after like back to school that, you know, were you happy with what you were doing the whole time? Yeah, I was happy in Equalizer. Equalizer was going to go another season,

but then Edward got sick and we had to cancel. It was kind of a premature cancellation. And they were grooming my character to possibly do more. And that could have been something. Yeah, after back to school and I did a movie no one ever saw called The Tiger's Tale, which is one of my favorite movies. But it just didn't get good release with Anne Margaret, Tommy Howell and Kelly Preston and Anne Wedgworth, Charles Durning. Great, great, great cast. And I played it was the first movie out of after that sequence of bad guys where I played a different type of role, country football player.

a role country football player and um i had high hopes for that to to to present myself in a new way and be oh he's you know i gained 250 pounds of muscle or whatever you know 50 i was 205 pounds after being 185 for karate kid and yeah um yeah i thought that would be something but yeah i didn't uh but i didn't really look i didn't look at it i got to a point where i i always want to do like my thing is if you're not loving it, don't do it. My dad always said, you know, find something you love to do and never work a day in your life. And there was a moment, and I don't remember where exactly, but I remember being on set saying, this is becoming work and I'm not having fun. And I don't know when that was, because up to that point, it was just a novelty. It was just a great ride. But there was one point where I'm

thinking, I'm doing this now because I kind of have to because it's because it's happened to me and i sort of uh i went to music school and i studied the guitar you don't remember the you don't remember when that happened you don't remember what role you were what you were looking at i was sitting on a i don't know where it was man i wish i did i think it was it might have been the equalizer in the last season, somewhere where I just remember sitting in my chair, waiting for things to happen. And I was, and I was antsy and I was like, ah, I want to do something else. I just, for some reason it was like, and then, um, yeah.

You went to music school? I did. Yeah. I played guitar and went to Dick Grove school of music and got a degree in guitar music. And how long did you study guitar? How long did, how do How do you do that? It was just specifically a guitar school? Yeah, it was a music school, all music school. Two years? I was playing guitar. Yeah, two years. I played guitar since I was 10. That was my instrument.

My brother played piano. I played guitar. I played a lot of bands and stuff, but it was all never for a career. I never wanted to be like a professional. Yeah, me too. too i'm the same way i play guitar since i was a kid so when you went to music school what like what did you learn how to finger pick and stuff finger pick with your right with your right hand yeah yeah yeah like finger pick yeah yeah i yeah i do i do my own thing i start i i pick with two fingers i don't pick with all my fingers two somehow i learned with my two yeah almost like my three fingers are cut off yeah that's the thing two fingers. I don't pick with all my fingers. Somehow I learned with my two, almost like my three fingers are cut off. Yeah. That's the thing.

Two fingers is okay. Two fingers. Yeah. And I'm good on that. I believe, you know, all the, all that stuff.

Yes. And Lance, yeah. So I do that. I love, that's my, that's, that's like my,

my passion. I just did that for fun, playing a couple of fun bands. It's one band called the acoustic outlaws. It was just four of us. We were acoustic harmony, you know, four guitars and four of us.

And we'd go do these pumpkin festivals and stuff and sit on these big haystacks and big speakers and play like old Blackwater and listen to the music. Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah. I played a lot of little bars and things like that just for fun.

It was never like I want to do this for real. It was just like I just love it. So I still do. Yeah, it probably would have ruined it if you had to do it for real it's just like i just love it so i still do yeah probably would have it probably would have ruined it if they you had to do it for real yeah i think so you think you would have it would have been a quicker journey to that moment you had on set when you're exactly on a hay bale doing a doobie brother song you're like i don't know that's exactly right but that moment by the way that that moment of like hey this isn't fun anymore i'm not feeling it what you know it wasn't sustained it was just like it was it's kind of informed me that

there's more to me right now i want to go explore and i did that and when did you get married and stuff when did you get all that done well that's that's uh 12 years ago but i dated her for nine years before that so we've been together for a minute 21 years um couple kids yeah it's it's the best it's the best man oh yeah well it's nice that like in you got and her family's nearby and so you got grandparents nearby yeah yeah yeah it's good it's good i mean it's it's it's the best thing i mean when i'm not doing this you know professionally stuff people say what are you working on i say i'm producing two kids yeah i'm writing directing writing, directing, editing these two, two lives and trying to get them on track and find their place in their voice. And that's actually something that

has been recent as the show has blown up a little bit and they're getting more aware that what if what I do and, uh, there's a little bit of, um, you know, uh, them being my kid and in circles and being introduced as this is his dad is this guy. Oh yeah. Yeah. And, and I, you know, my whole thing is to direct them to their autonomy and like this, I want them to meet you guys and this is how we handle it. This is daddy's job, but we get to pop those bubbles and those illusions of what that is. And like I did, I was, I saw behind the curtain when I was a kid, I was never impressed.

I was never, I never came at Hollywood going, wow. I was like, I saw the facades and the props and all that. And if I take my kids with me now and they get to see how it works, the inner workings of it, it's not such a big deal. It's show business. It's all an illusion, man. It's a magic trick. So they get to see that and they get to process it that way. And then I'm really diving into what makes them special and feed them, you know, their gifts. I know that's what it's about. It's interesting though, that when you do see show business in a, in a, in a well-rounded person, when you see all of it, the, the behind the thing, the illusion, the actual scene behind the scenes makes it even more trippy, right? Cause then you can really see that it's the magic. It's's sort of like ready here we go and action and bam you know like i can't imagine seeing carson back in the 70s smoking

those cigarettes everyone's smoking cigarettes everywhere yeah that's right that's right you know and him and those lights come up it's really exciting i when i do stand up like that moment where where you get to the venue just to check it out or you check out a set and you're like, all right, this is where that's the magical moment where like, this is where it's going to happen. We're going to do the thing here. Yeah. And it's always, it's always, for me, it's always, it's always not as intimidating when you're there. Like when you're watching, you see the Oscars on TV or you see the golden glove, whatever, you see these big, even a set. And then on TV,

it's this bigger than life thing. And then you get there. And it actually gets into proportion and perspective. And it feels totally different. Oh yeah. Because you're sitting there next to bored people, you know, through commercial breaks, you know, should I go say hi to what's his name? Nah, I better not go over there yet. Yeah. Yeah. But that's, what's awesome about it too, man. It's like, you know, should I go say hi to what's his name? Nah, I better not go over there yet. Yeah. Yeah. But that's, what's awesome about it too, man.

It's like, you know, it's, it's, it's fun to, to be on the inside of all that. And it's also a business though. It's interesting to really see it that way. I get mad when people don't see it that way. I get mad when people are condescending or attack Hollywood types. It's like, it's a fucking industry, man. This is like, you know, we're, there's a lot of people on a lot of levels doing a lot of hard work here and you guys are just going to be dicks about celebrity culture shut up yeah yep show biz man the business part of that is uh you got to embrace

that it's crazy you have to get that yeah yeah has you have you shown have your kids seen the first karate kid they haven't And they're welcome to. It's just, I never, you know, for a minute there, listen, when they were little, when Mike, my boy was five or six, he found a picture of me kicking Daniel LaRusso and the karate kid on my office floor and said, you know, what's this picture from? Did you fight that boy? And I'm like, well, yeah, it was fake. It was pretend it was a movie.

He goes, did you win? And I'm like, well, no, I didn't win. I go, but I won all the ones. So I wasn't really too ready to show my kids me being mean, kicking a guy's ass against the fence and then getting a crane kick at the end. But now they, they get it. They've been on set of Cobra Kai. They know Ralph, they know the cast. They're ready to see Karate Kid, but it just, when we have movie night for whatever reason, you know, we can't find a movie, but they never suggest karate kid, not yet anyway. So, but they will, they kind of know it through osmosis. I think it's in their, I think it's in their blood. They intuitively know what happens at the end of that. And they don't really want to see that train wreck. So they're kind of more, that's so funny

that you got to like, you have to get your kid to understand that you're not a loser when he can't really, when he's not really quite developed enough to quite understand believe me man oh yeah i mean in the language and the words that i get to say you know i'm telling not to say poop and you know this and that i mean the stuff they're they're learning from me on this show but it's great it's great you know so they've watched this show they haven't watched the show no they come to the set yeah they've been on set yeah and uh i just did a the last season we just shot and i had a you know they're they're both there listening and the headphones and i had some nice colorful words to say and i had to come off and say hey you know just because johnny says that

doesn't mean we get to say that at our dinner table you know what's the what's the guy's name who plays uh the the the big villain your old teacher martin cove sensei crease like what now did they have to find that guy somewhere or like his you know like i what are those guys have been doing like you haven't been in touch with ralph have you over the years i well only in the last uh maybe since 2008 pat marita passed away we reconnected at his service and then we kind of became friendly again, and we would do a bunch of Comic-Cons. So over the last 10 years or so, we've been doing a lot of stuff,

traveling together. Comic-Cons, so because of the original Karate Kid following? What would you do? Yeah, sure. Or back to school. They just bring you into these places. Yeah, and you get to meet the fans,

and it's cool. Then you do these panels. I'm sure you've done these panels, right? No, I don bring you into these places. Yeah. And you get to meet the fans and it's cool. Then you do these panels. I'm sure you've done these panels, right? I don't have a nerd following. Oh yeah, you do. Yeah. But I haven't done, I've never done a con of any kind. Okay.

Oh, you should be doing cons. Really? I'm surprised about that. Yeah. Totally surprised that. I mean, I might be able to do one because of glow, but I don't know that anything else I've done previous. I would. Oh yeah.

You'd be surprised. You're just telling me like, you know, all you got to do is tell your manager, they'll get you set up. You just have a booth and you. Right. It's really strange. I don't know. They kind of shut down this last year. It is, it is a, it took me a minute to get comfortable with the idea of sitting there and, you know, it's a little.

It's a nostalgia trip, right? Yeah. It's, it's a, it's a trip, you yeah it's it's a it's a trip you know i love it now because you know up to that point i was the table that the dads would walk by with their kids and go they'd walk up and go i just want my kid to meet you you know this guy was the biggest asshole you know they're nice to me they walk away you know that was the thing now i got people coming up going uh hey i i love you on the show yeah yeah johnny's cool now and you know somehow he's cool or something right that's so funny yeah don't be this guy you don't want to become this guy no no no you don't want to be this guy oh man yeah so but uh yeah so we did that we were friends but martin cove yeah they he was with the near shot in fact you know i was with

him and ralph at a comic con in florida when when they uh youtube and sony called and said we got a season it's for sure it's happening and um only ralph and i knew at that moment marty didn't know about it he was in the pitch meetings and i had to break to him outside this bar it was raining at night and uh he's about to go to his room like hey i gotta tell you about uh something that's going on right now and it's been called cobra kai and he's like well when do i come on when when's my part i go well they're gonna call you but i think it's like the end of episode 10 he's like why the end why can't i come in in the middle why can't i come in episode two have them call me you know yeah have them call me so anyway they had his number they met and uh they're the writers were smart on when to bring him in. And then they gave him that whole second season.

Then he came in and stole the rug out from under Johnny and took the dojo. Yeah. It's a blast, man. I love working with him. He's great. He's a teddy bear. I watched the short film that you produced and co-wrote. Oh, wow.

Where was that? In Czechoslovakia, you did that? that yeah we shot that in Prague and in in uh Poland yeah I mean like 2001 so when you say you went to film school so you were still working in film and you went to film school yeah I started it the nutshell is I went to Cal State Northridge to be a film major and got cast in Karate Kid. And from that point, I jumped out of school because I was working and I was getting film school on this show and movies and all that. Went back to UCLA, did some writing classes and went to music school. So but my film studies and I studied with like Vilmos Zygmunt, the great the great cinematographer.

You know, I would go to these six concentrated classes and learn about cameras and film stocks and lenses and things like that. So I went to make this short film in Eastern Europe, 2001. It's like three weeks after nine 11, my partner and I got on a plane and flew to, flew to London and we traveled eight countries looking for the elements of this, this movie, which is centers around a drawbridge. And we, we ended Belgium, Bulgaria, Hungary, of this this movie like which is centers around a drawbridge um and we in belgium bulgaria hungary

um but let me ask you though like because it's interesting it's specific it's it's it's sad uh it's heavy and it's a short film and it's like how did you land on that project why that i mean you're you know you're who you are you're doing show business you're doing whatever you're doing and then this strange almost a short film with a foreign sensibility you know in terms of how it looks and how it's written and how it's shot and you why that one why that story yeah you know that story i heard as a kid i remember hearing that story and it's actually a true story too, by the way, incidentally, a father at a drawbridge and his son falls into gears

and he sacrifices son for a train, for a train of passengers. So it's like an old tale or it's like, it's an old tale. Yeah. And I haven't been able to find that like the newspaper article that says where and when this happened, but it's, it may be a fable may have been true but it was something that i heard and at that moment in time in 2001 with the shock of all that uh you know my partner called up he said i just heard this story and i said hey i remember that story because i think it'd be a good time to tell something like you remember that story is that like some sort of weird like was it something your dad told you

is it isn't an old czech story like what is that no i i dad told you? Is it an old Czech story? Like, what is that? Yeah, no, I heard it at a camp, an old Czech story. No, I heard it at a camp years ago and it stuck with me over the years. A sad camp? Did you go to a sad camp? Yeah, it was a sad camp, but it was about, you know, it was about redemption. It was about hope. It was about, you know, there was something sacrificial about it and helping people,

laying something down. Making a sacrifice for the bigger picture. Making a sacrifice for the bigger picture. Yeah. And at that moment, it was something that, you know, I don't know, it wasn't even anything like on purpose. It was just like, hey, you want to go make this movie? And I thought, sure. And also I just kind of uprooted and moved out of LA. I was living in, bouncing from Bulgaria to Hamburg and to Prague anyway. And I said, well, I'm in Eastern Europe. Why don't we try to look for it out here? What do you mean anyway?

What were you doing? You went to Bulgaria? I was doing a bunch of, I did a bunch of, before I got married, I did a bunch of indie films over in Bulgaria and, you know, and had many friends and I was traveling. I lived in Sofia, Bulgaria for a while. Really? I lived in Berlin.

I'd stay in Berlin. Yeah. For a long time, for a couple of years, almost three. So, so you were like in that weird indie film market. I think, uh, who was I talking to? Like Charlie Sheen did a bunch of those kind of weird. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was doing those, you know, I would get, they get me over there and I, with the bait of one movie and then they're like, Hey, we got four more if you want to stick around. I'm like, sure. So I had a blast, man. I enjoyed that. That was some good acting school.

It's a good film school with that doing that. And then I got, you know, then I was bored of those. I would read those scripts and I would see the potential in these indie films. I'm like, these have potential to be actually good films. Why are they cutting corners? Why does the CGI look like this? And then I got that other kind of thing in me going this is I'm bored I want to do something that has integrity and I want to do something on film and I want to do something that tells a story that means something and I want it to be colored

right and I want it to have great acting and uh and then I was I was going to even be in the short film but it became such a passion of mine that I I said I can't put myself on this canvas I can't yeah I can't cross the line I just want to be behind it. And we shot this on film in the old, we got the Airflex cameras. And we had the film stock from Lord of the Rings shipped to us. Like the Lord of the Rings was filming. We get their recans. And we filmed it in negative 11 degrees weather in Poland, freezing cold.

We dealt with the Polish mafia. It's a story. The biggest flood in 100 years knocked out all the bridges in Prague on our last day of shooting. It's a great, it was a great adventure. Yeah. all the bridges in Prague on our last day of shooting. Really? It was a great adventure. Yeah. We had to go back and do some reshoots. How long is that film? It's like a 20-minute movie.

How long is the movie? Dude, it was 33 minutes. And it took us... It was like the longest, the most epic short film of all time. We shot that thing. Yeah, it took a while. What happened with the Polish mafia? Well,

we didn't realize who we were dealing with. We had to get a, a 1930s 40 steam train from Warsaw, Poland to this place called Chechen, Poland. And that's all through the country. You're like shooting Fitzgerald. You're like,

you know, it's crazy. Yeah. Like exactly. Right. Yeah. We had, we had a crew coming in from Prague meeting him.

So we had a train coming from Warsaw prague meeting him so we had a train coming from warsaw us coming from prague us going in through berlin in the back door and they came down to meet us and so we went to go we had to rent this steam train like 10 train cars and a conductor and they quoted us 1500 bucks for the day with the train car and everything we thought it was great then we go to uh pick up the train and i sent a guy up to go pick the train up and he's like hey these guys are shaking me down. They didn't, they said they're not, they didn't say 1500 a day. They said $15,000 a day. So I'm like, what?

15 grand a day for this train? Like, well, we got to pay it. I mean, our whole movie, we're going to have to figure something out in post. And then, uh, so they, they did. And we ended up having like, whether it was the actual mafia or not, but we tipped off, we had to tip off every bridge operator all the way from there to our bridge. And then they, the train shows up and now we're at this bridge. It was 19, it was World War II bridge was the only one that wasn't destroyed in Poland

during the war. And it was like manual. They had to crank it to go up and down. It was negative, negative 11 freezing cold and the bridge snaps and breaks and won't open and close anymore. So we have our train parked off to the side and we had to wait two days, negative 11, freezing cold. And the bridge snaps and breaks and won't open and close anymore. So we have our train parked off to the side and we had to wait two days, 15 grand, 15 grand, 15 grand for this train to get back on track.

And then we controlled this bridge for 10 minutes on the hour. So the rest of the 50 minutes, real train cars are flying by. It was crazy. And then we didn't get our whole movie because we lost days and we had to go back.

The bridge broke. We had to have an insurance battle with this big insurance company. Oh my God. And you always, the, the plan was always to make a half hour movie. It was just to be a little short, fun film.

It took us there. We went back in the summer. It was all green and instead of winter. So that was great. And you got an Oscar for it. Nomination. A nomination because they probably heard the story. Nomination. A nomination. Because they probably heard the story.

They're like, these kids, they really. Hey, man. That's right. Yeah, they felt sorry for it. Yeah, that's right. They went all in, man. I mean, this is like four years in the making. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, we did the tour, the festival tours. We opened at Sundance. And, you know, we didn't even get a mention, an honorable mention at Sundance. The that won that you know we thought well we put a lot of heart in this movie nothing's gonna happen with it and then then we started kicking up and all the rest of the festivals and somehow we ended up walking you should have made you should have made a feature about the making of your of your short film oh that would have been great that would have been seen you would know you wouldn't have had to look it up then that sounds like like the movie. $15,000 a day. Oh, my God.

No, I thought it was great. I thought it looked great. I thought it was a good story. It wasn't uplifting to me. No, but the ending is sort of right, a little bit. I mean, it's not uplifting. No, yeah, yeah. I mean, you get it.

You get the sacrifice. No, it's not uplifting. It's not uplifting. But it is thought-provoking. It does stir you. Did you feel a connection? I mean, do you have family from that region? Yes, because I'm Czech.

So my dad, my – Like Czech? Yeah. My grandparents are from Moravia, which is between Prague and Brno, which is old Czechoslovakia. And you knew them? I didn't know them. I never met them.

My dad and mom came out on their anniversary. My dad, who had retired at that point when we were doing our reshoots, invited him to watch the trains go on the bridge. He ended up running the whole thing. Got to walk and talk. He was making the trains go across. But we ended up taking a trip. It was funny, man. I was like, my dad coming around the corner with the microphone. He knows what he's doing. he took over the whole thing uh it was great but uh yeah we went to moravia which is where my grandparents are from this small little village and um yeah learned a little bit of check and so there was some uh you know enough enough to start a conversation i couldn't finish and did

you did you find any family history there? Is there family graves or whatnot? No, but ironically, a lot of the Zabkas were involved in helping build some of the first early steam trains. Really? So how interesting is that? So here I am doing a movie about a steam train, the steam train operator, and there's pictures in these museums of a lot of Zabkas who were helping build these steam trains. There was a big name in that area, huh? Zabka? Yeah, it was the Joneses here. No kidding.

Zabkas are very popular in Eastern Europe, yeah. And where did your folks, both of your parents are Czech? My mom is German-French, so she's from here. And yeah, and she was a dancer. She was a showgirl, actually. Not in Broadway, but off-Broadway. She did a lot of stuff. So when I was a kid, I'd go and watch her in these musicals

and Pirates of Penzance and all that. Oh, yeah? When I was a kid, yeah, yeah. She's a very talented, good singer. Both my parents were actually good singers, and they made a little album together way back when. Ah. The Sonny and Sherry you never heard of.

But your dad didn't grow up in Czechoslovakia, though. He grew up where? He was born in Des Moinesines Iowa yeah and he and he moved uh they lived on the south side of the tracks in Chicago way back in the depression days my dad was born in 24 like Chicago's like kind of like I don't know I for some reason I associate Czechs with like you know being stocky and tough is that yeah a generalization yeah they are they're tough yeah i mean they're yeah they would build things with their hands you know you know catch their own food you know

yeah they're tough yeah they're build all build their own motorcycles and cars they're fixers you know really good handyman but when you did that movie was like was the plan were you trying to sort of move into directing were you trying to get on that side of it? The funny thing was we, if I really wanted to look at it that way as a career move, I would have shot it here to cast people that you knew and play that game. I really want. So,

yeah, I mean, I think I was a artistic itch to go and to do that, but it wasn't to play to, uh, you know, as a ticket here, it was more of like, I really want to make this movie and we're going

to do it outside of the box with no support and no no no names you don't know anybody in that movie you know sure we could have gone that route so yeah but that's that's something i would definitely wanted to it was it felt amazing to to be a to be a filmmaker well so when you got the nomination were you like let's i'm gonna do this now yeah yeah i was thinking that i was i was doing that and wrote some things we had a little me and my partner had some things set up didn't go through and then i got into other stuff you know as they haven't just didn't i didn't stay at it i guess in a way for a minute i got pulled into other things music videos commercials directing those types of Oh, you did some commercial directing?

Yeah, I did some commercial stuff. You like it? Big music videos for Oscar. No, not really. I don't like doing the commercials so much, but I do like music videos. I like that. Do they still do those?

Not the scale, unless they're a super, super star, but the ones I was doing were pretty decent budgets. They don't make them like that anymore. Yeah. And I also like shooting on actual film. Now I'm a digital guy. I just shot a movie on film. Guy shot a movie on film.

On film film? Yeah. He was shooting film, and it's different as an actor. And I don't have that many chops as an actor, and I haven't been on that many sets. But you kind of got to make shit count. You can't just be like, can we just do another one right away oh yeah no no four takes no that's it maybe that's right yeah and he shot a feature in 19 days dude on film i have no idea what he got but i want to see it he said i did a good job but i haven't it's crazy good did you

that's great that's 19 days yeah you can do it film's great why did he choose film i wonder does he was he just old school the same reason anyone does it was his first feature and he's like i wanted to have that that feeling that 70s i guess so i guess it does it does yeah yeah and uh i've i've no idea i have no idea like i don't know how you guys do it really over and over again, where, but I've talked to cats who, you know, go through periods. Oh, you know who was, it might've been Steven Dorf, you know, where, you know, he knows who he is and he knows what he does. And sometimes like you're, you're as an actor, you're sort of like, all right, well, how much money is it? And for how long and where, and you don't yeah you can't worry about what the fuck the movie is going to look like i mean it seemed like half the time it was sort of like i don't know if this thing's even gonna make it out of the camera yeah yeah that's right that's right yeah as an actor though that you're saying he did that as an actor that's right yeah yeah there's something

about that you know you want to know where you got to show up well you know what what's the day look like and when am i done and then there done? Then there's behind the camera, which takes everything. Right. But what I'm saying is that there is a level of acting sometimes that if you're given the opportunity, you can still engage in the acting, engage in the process, but sort of know in your heart of hearts that this movie's not going anywhere. Yeah, there's that feeling. You kind of have feeling you kind of do you do yeah you do you have a feeling like all right this is uh if it's happening on the set there's an energy that's happening it's like if this is going to translate there's there's moments where you know you're on a turd there's moments where you think you know hey maybe maybe it's a turd but i did good or it's a good movie right you know one of those things and sometimes you must a turd, but I did good. Or it's a good movie. You know, as long as one of those things.

And sometimes you must walk away going like kind of happy. That's not going to be seen by anybody. Yeah. Oh yeah, for sure. For sure. That was great. That's right. That's right. You know, all the, all the, all the, all the things you can do, you just keep bettering your, your own craft, just keep doing it, doing it and seeing what works. I love that I did a bunch of stuff that was obscure and nobody saw I was on sci-fi, all these indie films you know um because i got to really try stuff in there and it was kind of

a safe place because you know the world wasn't watching you know and you learn those things and take them to the next thing but those things also get you frustrated because you're watching compromises made you're seeing rushed things terribly composed shots you know they're just chopping scenes yeah forget shopping you know what i're just chopping scenes. Yeah. Forget shopping. You know what? I tell you what, man, post-production, you know, this editing, it's all in the cut too. It is really, it's weird. Final thing is it gets into the, into their hands. So, you know, and now I'm an editor too. You know, I did a couple of docs and I cut these two big docs in Africa and I'll sit

there and I'm a, I'm a, I'm a very good editor actually. What were the docs about? Both one was on Uganda. It was these three kids that traveled to Uganda to go and change the world and it kicked their ass and they came home completely devastated by what they witnessed there. But then they set up an NGO and go back. And now they have wells and cab services and all that. And it was fascinating. We had the king was the queen.

And then another one called the never, a never land about Swaziland, which is in the AIDS epidemic in Swaziland. And that was something I was brought into late where they had already shot a bunch of the stuff and they came in and put that together and produce that. And I enjoy that equally as, as much as I do doing a great scene acting or saying act cut, you know, I love telling the story and the real power at the end of the day comes in the editor's hands the mix the timing the cuts the choices the selects all those things man

and you're if you're in good hands so that's what also drew i kind of drove into like i have to do this because i'm frustrated um i'm not getting spoiled like i was with karate kid with you know with john avildsen and the visionary and Jimmy Crave, the DP and all that and other people I've worked with. And so you start to get anxious to do it yourself and that fulfills you. But that takes all of you. Yeah. It takes every, it's all your capacity, which I love.

I also love showing up, not giving a crap what I look like and not having, you know, just not having to be aware, not having to be on, you know, grow my face out, whatever, the hair sticking up and, you know, it's sitting behind a monitor and, you results, and I'm starting to enjoy seeing what I can do as an actor and starting to figure out what is compelling about it because there's so much fucking waiting. There's part of me that's sort of like, how is this a job? And I'm waiting all day to do this two-minute thing. But I've started to appreciate it more. to appreciate it more but when i talk to filmmakers i mean you better believe in what you're doing because it's going to eat up your life from anywhere from like yeah a year to five years to 10 years who the fuck knows that's right that's right it's a big it's you are having a baby for three years yeah i mean it is not so you are it is uh every part and even when you think

you're resting you're not resting because the back of your mind's putting something together you're you're troubleshooting putting out a fire creatively thinking of something when you're resting, you're not resting because the back of your mind is putting something together. You're troubleshooting, putting out a fire, creatively thinking of something. When you're in charge of it, it's all consuming, which is great to have partners. If you can have some good creative partners to help you to curb that. But yeah. So did this re-energize you to start? I mean, are you thinking back in terms of maybe investing in directing or writing something? Yeah. I mean, I'm really pleasantly surprised with how much I'm enjoying acting right now. It's a sweet spot. I've got great writers, a great team, great co-stars, great kids.

I mean, I couldn't ask for anything more than this moment right now to completely soak up And you get to redeem this guy. And I get to slow. It's a slow burn, man. But yeah, it's like, that's right yeah it's like that's right that's right he's on a journey it's like so i i couldn't enjoy acting anymore right now and i would love if these moments can keep coming i'll i'll be caring i'll be doing this but sure there's their wheels back there going you know hey you know but i want it to be something i believe in i want it to be

to be work just to throw on top of work. Well, you like the heavy stuff, man. No, I like comedy better. That one was just one I had to get out of my system. I like light things. I like more uplifting fun. But I like drama too. We'll see.

I go by my gut and when something hits me like this story or this thing I'll go that direction all right um yeah so that's it man well yeah man I like I'm happy for you I mean I really was sort of like I I really was uh you know floored by you know your performance and it was like and you know right away I was very invested and I thought you know it was had amazing depth and it was really engaging to me and i don't i don't i didn't really care about the karate kid i was just sort of like what is this guy doing with this character so yeah i'm happy for you

man and it was thank you so much good talking to you great talking to you mark all right man take care of yourself all right man you got it Great talking to you, Mark. All right, man. Take care of yourself. All right, man. You got it. That's it.

As I said, Cobra Kai is now streaming seasons one through three on Netflix. Season four will come out later this year. And that was great. I enjoyed talking to him. I thought he's sort of, he's got a good mindset about what he's been through in life in terms of expectations. I'm projecting, but you know what I'm saying.

Let's hit this guitar hard. Thank you. Thank you. Boomer lives Monkey Lafonda Cat angels everywhere Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing. With cannabis legalization, it's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations,

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