WTF with Marc Maron Podcast - Episode 1233 - Helen Hunt

Episode Date: June 7, 2021

Helen Hunt: Oscar winner, Emmy winner, filmmaker, mother, and self-proclaimed “worst celebrity in the world.” Helen sits down with Marc to talk about how, despite her many accomplishments, she was able to block out the spotlight of fame, through her own choices as well as decisions imposed upon her by the industry. They also talk about Helen's memories of working with Jack Nicholson, how Paul Reiser sold her on doing Mad About You, and how she craves being part of diverse projects like her new show Blindspotting. Sign up here for WTF+ to get the full show archives and weekly bonus material! https://plus.acast.com/s/wtf-with-marc-maron-podcast. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series, FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel. To show your true heart is to risk your life.

When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th, exclusively on Disney Plus. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hi, it's Terry O'Reilly, host of Under the Influence. Recently, we created an episode on cannabis marketing with cannabis legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category.

legalization. It's a brand new challenging marketing category. And I want to let you know we've produced a special bonus podcast episode where I talk to an actual cannabis producer. I wanted to know how a producer becomes licensed, how a cannabis company competes with big corporations, how a cannabis company markets its products in such a highly regulated category and what the term dignified consumption actually means. I think you'll find the answers interesting and surprising. Hear it now on Under the Influence with Terry O'Reilly. This bonus episode is brought to you by the Ontario Cannabis Store and ACAS Creative. Lock the gate!

Alright, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucksters? What's going on? How is it going? How is your day? Where are you at? Are you working? What the fuck buddies? What the fucksters? What's going on? How is it going? How is your day? Where are you at? Are you working? Are you not working? Are you having a hard time adjusting to work? Are they wearing masks? Are they not wearing masks? Where are you at with things? Helen Hunt is on the show today. Yes, Helen Hunt. She's in the new Starz series, Blindspotting, which is actually based on the movie that came out a few years ago with Daveed Diggs, who was on the show talking about that movie.

But obviously, she's also an Oscar winner, an Emmy winner, showbiz lifer from when she was a kid, and a filmmaker in her own right. And it was sort of interesting when you get opportunities to talk to these people. And I've said that before. You know, I get the pitch. You want to talk to Helen Hunt? I'm like, yeah, of course. She's Helen Hunt. Got to talk to these people and i've said that before you know i get the pitch you want to talk to helen hunt i'm like yeah of course she's helen hunt got to talk to helen hunt i enjoy talking to her it's nice to see her face to face she came in well i'll share that with you momentarily how you doing you all right how the kids how's the cats how's the dog how's the bird

how's the lizard what happened to your snake what's going on with that fish how's your mom how's your dad how's your grandpa how's your grandma how's your brother how's your stepbrother how's your stepsister who are you i'm a he i'm an it i'm a they i'm a that i gotta get that straight do i gotta get that straight watching the stand-up doing the stand-up, a little bit angry. I don't know what to do. Mike Tyson and Bobby Brown were at the club last night. I didn't say anything to him. I saw Mike walk out.

It's intense. You know, when Mike walks down the hallway, you're kind of like, shit, man. It's Mike Tyson. He's like, excuse me, excuse me. No problem. No problem, man. This is Mike Tyson. He's like, excuse me. Excuse me. No problem. No problem, champ. Yeah, it's just been okay, man. I'm okay.

The cats are okay. I'm still on the sugar detox. I was having trouble breathing fully for like a week. And I don't know if it was all part of the physical trip of of taking away all that sugar. I don't know but i'm okay Now it seems to be coming back around. Maybe it was just because I was being suffocated from within Out of panic and stress about any number of things. I still don't have a clear handle on how not to uh,

to sort of um the sort of psychosomatic symptoms of stress. If I'm overwhelmed, if I get anxious, I feel like my lungs are in a vice. And I don't even know what it is. I think it's just part of the adjustment. I did comedy every fucking night last week. And it's dragging me back into a time of brain that I'm not sure I need to be back in. You know, I'm not all warm and cuddly and open like I usually am. Do I have the wrong idea of myself?

I'm not joyous and free and all embracing and just like, you know, when I'm on stage, it's like witnessing a giant hug. I'm not doing that anymore. I don't know what happened to that guy. Am I making that guy up so dean del rey and myself seem to be doing a podcast together it's either every two weeks it might end up being once a month it might end up being i don't know what whatever the case there are three of them up there dark fonzie dark fonzie number three is up it's me and delray i call him no scuff dean he calls me moody mark those are the new nicknames for the new the latest but whatever go get it where you get podcasts i know it's not apple podcast wherever you get them well i'm not in

charge of it dean is dark fonzie me and del Rey shooting the shit about corduroy pants, rock and roll, concerts, leather, dog, anal glands came up. You know, the deep stuff. Dark Fonzie number three up now. Did I tell you guys about the painting? Let's get into this. It's kind of an interesting story. A guy reached out to me on instagram through the

dms a guy in seattle had found a painting at an estate sale by a lynn shelton uh he showed me the painting had no sense of size and he showed me the painting and he showed me the signature lynn shelton 9 uh 1683 now i assume that was a date I didn't know. I didn't know anything about it. And I was trying to figure out how old she would have been, the Lynn Shelton that I loved. And could it be her? I know she had done some drawing, some painting. She done some photography. I know it was possible, but he picked this thing up at an estate sale. And I said, I don't know, but I want it. I mean, if it's her, it'd be a nice thing to have. You want to send it to me? I'll pay you back for it.

I'll pay you for it. He said, just if you just pay shipping. I'm like, fine. So then he tells me the shipping after this a few days later, the shipping comes to $192. And I'm like, Jesus, no problem. Yeah, I'll take care of it. And I gave it. I PayPal them the money.

And then a few days later, maybe a week later, this giant box comes. Giant. And I unpacked this huge, beautifully framed, I think it's a painting. It's on paper. It's a work on paper. It might be a print. It's still not clear to me. It's an abstract and it's big and it's beautifully mounted.

Like old timey kind of matte matte like fabric matte linen matte or whatever and it's a stunning abstract and abstract's not easy but there's a beautifully conceived abstract print or painting and i looked at the signature i'm like it says lynn shelton it's 1983 but this seems to be you know she, she would have been, I don't know, just out of high school. And it seems a little fully realized for a 17 or 18 year old person to create this print. And then I could see there was an imprint on the paper and I flipped, I took a picture of the imprint under the signature and I flipped it on my phone. It's a high end type of milled paper for printing or painting. It gave me no

real insight. I googled Lynn Shelton Painter, and it came up with one auction painting, an abstract that gave no details, but that led me to believe, or know anyways, that there was a Lynn Shelton out there painting at that time time or that one was from the 60s and it was just a mystery so i i texted her friend jennifer i sent a picture of the signature and the painting and jennifer you know contacted lynn's brother and when lynn's brother was like i don't know i don't know if she painted she would have been you know in 83 it would have been been like in between high school and her uh going to oberlin uh so i'm thinking like maybe she took a class with a printmaker or a master or maybe it was

still sort of possible in my mind her brother you know passed it along to the to lynn's mom who said um i don't remember her doing any painting it seems like it's probably not it's probably not her and then in the meantime i had my people on ig on instagram go looking and a couple of people came up with that painting that i found the one painting that had been an auction another so a few other people came up with a new york times article i think from the late 70s uh that involved a lynn shelton painter who worked with furniture actually covered furniture with paper and painted it and then somebody found a picture of one of those pieces of a piece of furniture covered with paper in a way, but not like collage-like. It was a very specific, unique thing, but it had an abstract sensibility.

And that person had found a signature that looked like the signature on my print. So I'm pretty sure that it's Lynn Shel shelton a painter who's a guy but it's very there's very limited information he was involved in a new york times article about some exhibition he was involved in but and it might be his painting that was up on that auction site from 1965 but i have this beautiful print that's huge and i've really taken a liking to it i hung it up in my bedroom it's hard to decide what you hang in your bedroom. But all of it was hinging on this idea that Lynn could have done it.

Lynn Shelton, the one that I knew and loved, could have done it. But also that she would have liked this painting. I have a piece of art that she had bought not long before she passed away that's an abstract piece of encaustic sculpture that has sort of definitely an abstract vibe. It's an abstract piece of, uh, in caustic, uh, sculpture that has sort of an, uh,

definitely an abstract vibe. It's a hanging, it hangs on the wall. It's a block of, uh, a sculpture with lines. And I think she would have liked this abstract in this abstract that by Lynn Shelton, the painter,

uh, you know, has some weird depth to it and a slight bit of darkness and a, a kind of like a chasm into space effect that I find compelling, but there's color in it. And I think Lynn Shelton, the film director, would have liked it. And I really like it. So it was destined to be with me from this estate sale that we know nothing about, just that it was in Seattle and that it was framed in Seattle, probably in the 80s. Strange story about the Lynn Shelton painting

that it's found a home on my wall. But I really appreciate all the fans. I appreciate that guy finding me and getting me the painting and I appreciate all the amateur sleuths that helped me piece it together. I love it. So look, you guys,

it was fun to talk to Helen Hunt. She's in this new Starz series, Blindspotting, which premieres next Sunday, June 13th. It's always interesting to talk to somebody. And then now that people are coming back over again, you've got the before she sits down here or they, and then after they talk. There's conversation that happens on both sides of those that sometimes is more revealing than the conversation we have in here. But that's just the nature of stuff. I've been on my way out walking someone out and literally said, shit, you want to. I think we should put that on the mics, don't you?

And they're like, no or yeah. But needless to say, it was nice to get to know her both on the mics and off the mics. This is me talking to Helen. It's winter and you can get anything you need delivered with Uber Eats. Well, almost, almost anything. So, no, you can't get snowballs on Uber Eats. But meatballs, mozzarella balls and arancini balls. Yes, we deliver those.

Moose? No. But moose head? Yes. Because that's alcohol and we deliver that too. Along with your favorite restaurant food, groceries and other everyday essentials. Order Uber Eats now. For alcohol you must be legal drinking age. Please enjoy responsibly. Product availability varies by region.

See app for details. Death is in our air. This year's most anticipated series FX's Shogun, only on Disney+. We live and we die. We control nothing beyond that. An epic saga based on the global best-selling novel by James Clavel.

To show your true heart is to risk your life. When I die here, you'll never leave Japan alive. FX's Shogun, a new original series streaming February 27th exclusively on Disney+. 18 plus subscription required. T's and C's apply. Hunt. I think people have gotten comfortable with the masks. Yeah.

I don't think it's a bad thing, I guess, to wear a mask. And the teenagers. Yeah. What about them? They're used to wearing them now. Oh, really? Like, I have friends with kids who, even though they're getting vaccinated, are too freaked to take them off. Really?

Yeah. The kids are getting, well, they're kind of the last group to get vaxxed, right? Yeah, but I think if you're in a mask for your 16th year, it's different than if you're in a mask for your 56th year. You know what I mean? That's a big year. Yeah, 16. To have your face covered. Do you have kids?

I have a 17-year-old daughter. So how did she take it? You know, as well as somebody can take it. I just felt like I spent the whole thing with one eye on her. Like, is she going down? What must she be thinking? In terms of mentally? Yeah. Yeah. Like the apocalyptic fucking thing. Yeah. one eye on her like is she going down is she what must she be thinking in terms of mentally yeah

yeah like the apocalyptic fucking thing yeah she looked early on she said i said uh it's gonna it's gonna be okay yeah she said you don't know that yeah see uh and i said you're right i almost know it yeah almost yeah i find that people say that. And it's a nice thing to say. And it's often true. Yeah, you got by 70%. The alternative as a mother is a lot of hand-wringing and what if, what if, the sky's falling. And panicking and then destabilizing their ability to. Yeah, so I went with column A.

Yeah, yeah. Stability and why not? Yeah. You got to lie a little bit. Yeah. But that must, is it exciting having a kid that age at this time? Do you find that, because I don't have kids. Yeah.

And I think you and I are about the same age. Do you find that you have no idea what they're up to or into or what's happening? As of a week ago. Really? Really. Like the switch flicked. Yeah. And I feel like I don't know what's in her head anymore.

And so I'm trying to not just be the devouring mother who's in your business. But I also don't want to be so in my lane that I am not there. Yeah. So it's like you fall off that surfboard a lot. What switch? I guess I'm getting ready for emptying now. I'm leaving you. So I better really change the way I do things.

Because in one year, I'm an adult who lives alone. I'm guessing that's what, you know. Oh, that's what it is. I just mean like, you know, how they take in media. Like I'm starting to realize like I have no idea how show business works anymore, really. Yeah, no, I don't either. And all I do is hand her my phone. First of all, where are my glasses?

Right. I don't have them. Can you do it? And second of all, how do you do it? Right. phone. First of all, where are my glasses? Right. I don't have them. Can you do it? And second of all, how do you do it? Right. Yeah. It's wild, right? It's so predictable.

I would like to beat the dealer, but I just don't think it's going to happen. But is it all age or is it that because it's really kind of like untethered, like this whole media landscape? I have no idea. Both. Yeah. Both. But how many of the, you've done the Blindspotting show.

Have you shot, how many? They made eight and I'm in six. Because I saw the movie and I talked to David. Oh, you did? Did you like the movie? Yeah, I did. I love the movie. I just, I don't know, what is the series then? It's, I mean, I think it has all the good DNA of the movie and all the good of completely reimagining it.

Right. So anybody who didn't see the movie it's rafael casal and david digs yeah in real life best friends grew up in oakland in the movie best different best friends right grew up in oakland and it's david's characters last five days on parole yeah but his friend his white friend is much more likely to go off and be violent and get him in trouble so it's the tension of those five days. Okay, okay. That's the movie. Okay.

The TV series, in the first frame, Raphael's character gets arrested. And so it's the effect on everybody else that, you know. The white guy gets arrested. Mass incarceration has on his son, his girlfriend, his mother, his sister, the whole, you know. Oh, wow. Yeah. Not a comedy uh you know oh wow yeah not a comedy a total comedy it is a comedy oh good yeah with dance and spoken word it's a trip yeah it's a trip oh wow yeah have you ever seen this guy who do you play his mother you do his very woke hippie loud mother is that fun it's so fun so funny i don't i don't see you as hippie loud so is it a it's

me no it's me turned like on off my leash oh okay yeah so that was amazing what were you gonna ask me had i seen one i don't remember oh it's gone yeah welcome to this goes yeah have you seen a dancer named lil buck l-i-l-b-u-c. On Instagram. No. And a guy named John Boogs. I know. See, I'm like the kids. Yeah. They're both incredible dancers. Yeah.

And they are the choreographers of this thing. So people just break out into dance in the middle of things? They kind of do. It's really good. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. I have to say.

Like, you've done a lot of stuff. You're not kidding. I mean, in a minute, I'm going to have to watch that I don't say things like, I've been doing this for 50 years. Like, that's going to be something I'm really going to try not to say. Yeah. But it's going to be the truth in, like, a minute. But you grew up in show business. Yeah.

I mean, I talked to only a few people. I just talked to William Zabka, whose dad was the director of the night show in New York. But I talked to Jodie Foster. I mean, you're more like her, kind of. Yeah. In that you were started when you were a child. Yeah. I never had the success that she had when I was little, though.

And I was never on a TV show. I wasn't that kid from... The show? Whatever. I was on a lot of shows that failed. Right. Which I take as a blessing. But didn't you do bit parts on like, you know?

Everything. Have you IMDB'd me? You probably ran out of time. I looked at Wikipedia a little bit. But you were on all those shows that we watched when we were kids. Some, and some you didn't watch or don't remember. Yeah, but how did it start? It started because my dad was a director.

And I was born here. I'm deep LA. Where were you born? Two generations back. Culver City. Oh, Culver City. My father and mother were both born in Pasadena nine years apart. Like deep LA.

Wow. Yeah, yeah. That's so rare. It's so rare. I don't even understand what Pasadena is I don't either I don't either You live really close

You should figure it out I used to live closer in Highland Park But it's just I knew that when I was looking for houses And I ended up in Glendale I didn't want to be in Pasadena For some weird specific reason Just arbitrarily oppositional

It felt like there was a kind of waspy Kind of You know I know it's not like New England But it did feel like there was some kind of waspy kind of, you know, I know it's not like New England, but it did feel like there was some sort of aristocracy in place over there. Yeah, there's big houses there. Yeah. The West Side gets the rap for being big and white and fancy, but Pasadena is pretty big.

But in Glendale, there's some here, but it's like, I don't get the sense that, I don't know what the history exactly of Glendale is, but it seems like its own place. I don't get the sense that, I don't know what the history exactly of Glendo is, but it seems like its own place. I don't feel threatened here. My grandmother was nominated for an Emmy at the third annual Emmy Awards in like 1952. Really? She wrote and created a children's show that was on NBC Live five nights a week. Single mother. Is that crazy?

It is crazy. And whose mother is this? My mother's mother wow i know and my father's parents lived in pasadena so it's some deep deep deep la but show business too so back to what you were asking me my dad was a director we lived in new york city from age three to nine that was my new york like imprint what was he directing there uh play little plays and off-broadway so that was that was the beginning of it, him getting his chops? Not his beginning.

It was my beginning. Yeah. Being taken to like Godspell in the basement of a church before it was ever in a theater when I was six. And they're handing out wine and painting each other's faces. And I was like, whatever this is. It's the best, right? I didn't have a thing of wanting to be an actor on stage. I just wanted to be in that room.

Yeah. For the rest of your life? For the rest of my life. Painting faces and drinking wine? Yeah, pretty much. Pretty much. You did almost. I kind of did.

I'm almost there. Who knows? Yeah. Yeah. So, and he was directing plays? He was directing plays, and so I would go to rehearsal with him. Yeah. And I just-

Any big ones? Any big actors? Anything make an impression on you? You don't know. I just liked being in that room. Yeah, but you don't know what he- Actors drinking coffee. Any big ones? Any big actors? Anything make an impression on you? You don't know. I just liked being in that room. Yeah, but you don't know what he... Actors drinking coffee. You know what I mean?

It was more about that. Yeah, yeah. Which kills me because my daughter is not... She may very well not be an actor, but she loves the theater. Yeah. And it's all on Zoom. She did Romeo and Juliet on Zoom. Oh, no.

I know. Well, they're going to be back. They'll be out soon. Right? Yeah. I hope she has a senior year that's real and in person. So you didn't, but you didn't act then? When I was, I was studying ballet and I was studying acting, which was really just because

someone in my family was. And so at age nine, I was in an acting class back in LA and there was a kind of one through three, one to three on Saturdays was the kid class and three to six was the adult class. Right. And I begged her to take both. Yeah. Same thing. I just wanted to be in that room.

Yeah. I didn't have any desire to work. I just wanted to be. There was something cool about it, right? I think it's the thing, which still is why I love going to plays, is that this challenging, scary, heartbreaking story happens in a safe container. Yeah. That cocktail. Like that cocktail.

Live though. Works and live all the better. But that feeling of like being, of being fascinated with like behind the scenes, like I still feel that if I do anything television oriented or if I make an appearance on a talk show. Yeah. That moment where you're just sitting there

with people with real jobs. Yeah. I know. I teach acting sometimes. My dad taught acting for decades and decades and he died with somebody else, a terrific other teacher we took over the class. And I'm always telling them, you're going to be standing on a set and chatting. Yeah. And you'll be with the electrician and he's chatting and you're chatting.

But at some point, you have to be a wild animal. Yeah. you have to be a wild animal. Like he gets to be normal and hang lights and bed filters up, but you have to make weird sounds and remember the darkest in your past and move your bot. And that's, I think, probably why I like acting is you have to be a little bit feral to do it. Interesting. And I like that.

I want to understand that because I've been doing some acting. You know, feral in the sense of like I understand to understand that because I've been doing some acting. You know, feral in the sense of, like, I understand the idea that, how is it feral exactly? I mean, for me, it's in my body. It's in my voice. I use stuff from my dreams. So the rawness at the core of it all. Yeah. That you've got to show up in this and manifest this thing.

Yeah. And if you're making decisions about the scene from the neck up, how fun is that to watch? Yeah. What are you doing with your hands? Yeah. But if you're using some dream where you crossed a street with a cat next to you and the cat clawed you and that's coming up in the scene, There's something wild and unruly and unsafe about that. Yeah, yeah.

People always say, what was it like to work with Jack Nicholson? I think that he, he to me, is the perfect cocktail of sat in acting class in New York City

for a hundred years, knows the basic stuff. What does the character want? Yeah. Where were they one minute ago? Yeah. But also,

it's like that feeling like a wild thing walked on stage. And so when those two are together that's my favorite kind of that right that's the the the present to do to be present yeah but i think you need the all the other balls to be present but you also need the craft you need to know how to do it on take 10 and on the eighth show of the week yeah yeah yeah yeah that was sort of like it was that was an interesting

sort of time for Nicholson, I think. Because it seems like that was sort of the beginning of the old Nicholson. Right? The beginning of the older? You mean as a person older?

I guess so. Yeah, kind of. He did that Nancy Meyers movie after, which he was incredible in. Which one? Something's Gotta Give. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Cutting the turtleneck

off of Diane Keaton. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You remember that? Yeah, I do. They were both so good no he's great i haven't like i it's i miss him me too do you talk to him no i know we never were social but in that but they'd say go and we had whatever that was we had something yeah i i uh i just like i miss him at the oscars yeah i know because somebody's in there who might

do something crazy it just even him sitting there in the front Yeah, I know. Because somebody's in there who might do something crazy. It's just even him sitting there in the front. I don't know who any of those people are anymore. I don't either. But when we were growing up, it was a great thing to watch. They're all sitting there. I went through that whole award thing with him, and that's fun. That must have been great.

Hunts. He used to call me Hunts. And you won, right? We both won. Oh, he won two? Yeah. Was he fun? You know what I remember is he was in a thing with Jim Brooks about...

Oh, Jim told me about something. I actually remember what it was. Yeah. Was it noodle salad and that whole thing? I don't remember, but I talked to Jim know, spending time with Jack on that thing. Yeah. They got in some headlock over something that might seem small but meant the world to both of them. It may have been whether you say noodle pudding or noodle salad.

I'm not kidding. It meant something. I think one was a deeply Kugel Jewish memory and the other was a memory of wasps and picnics. I mean, I think it was in that zone. And I was just there watching them. And Jack got really frustrated. We were in the makeup trailer. And he said something like, fuck it.

Who cares? And then there was a beat. He said, the only art I have left is not to say that. Really? Yeah. Which meant that he is still this journeyman actor who goes, I'm not going to say fuck it. And I'm not going to take my ball and go home. I'm going to stay in.

That's touching. Isn't that amazing? Yeah. I know. People think of him as this like bolt of lightning that people caught in a jar. He was actors, actors, actors, actors. He's a pro. Yeah.

Well, there's a great story that I think it must have been Rob Reiner told me about A Few Good Men because he directed that, correct? And Jack would, you know, when they were doing Kevin's coverage or Tom's coverage, whoever, Kevin Pollack's coverage, when he was on the stand, Jack would always sit there and just go all in. Yeah. No, he's the real thing. Right.

And Rob at some point said, you know, you don't have to do the whole, you can just do the line. You don't have to go. He's like, I love to act. Yeah. I love actors. That's the thing i've directed recently yeah and you just i just love actors we sent me that movie that you directed and i watched it uh uh then she found me that was your first film yeah wait and you chose that you chose that movie you championed that movie you took that all day through you wrote it yeah that one and then another one called ride that i did after that i wrote but that's original

script right that's original this one um went through a lot of iterations and then me trying to trying to get pregnant writing about trying to get pregnant none of that was it was based on a novel by eleanor litman um but was very as beautiful and the dna of what she wrote is in the movie but everything else was different very Jewish deeply Jewish David Steinberg said I'm the most Jewish actor he's ever worked which given my shiksa reputation um no David Steinberg you know the comedian yeah oh yeah that's right when'd you work with him mad about you oh right right and I had when I was nine I memorized like all of his records which he couldn't square that with this blonde i know you're a big david

steinberg fan of the stand-up yeah huh disguised as a normal person i just i don't know he's one of those guys that i i kind of like i don't know why i don't have a knowledge of his stand-up work of all the people because i i like a lot of old stand-ups, but I just never, like he's a Canadian dude. Yeah. And I don't know the stand-up. You know what Seinfeld said about him? What? David's got, David not only has balls, he has quality balls.

Oh. And that was a high compliment. That is from him. Yeah. So what were the first, how did you start acting? I was in this class. Right, the one you said, yeah. And an agent called the teacher and said, I need a girl.

I went, auditioned, and I was suddenly on a plane for Canada to play the pioneer daughter in a thing called Pioneer Woman. So cut to me in like a bonnet running going, I guess this is acting. Yeah. Did your mom have to go with you? My mom went with me. She tells a story that she came over to see if I was okay. And I looked at her and said, I know what I'm doing. But I don't remember if that's true. Oh, yeah. Ultimately, it would become true. Yeah. If it wasn't true, then it's true in the big picture. Sounds like something a precocious kid would say. Yeah. Yeah. So that

was the beginning of it? That was the beginning. And I was always in regular school because I was never in a hit show. Right. I didn't get kidnapped in that way. I had a regular life and friends. Oh, that's probably better. I think it's better. You didn't become one of those freaks. And the pain of not getting these parts that I thought I would have no career if I didn't get this part.

There was a whole brat pack that passed me by. Were you jealous of it? Who were they? Which ones? All of them. Oh, they mean like? Breakfast Club. Oh, right.

Ringwald and Ally Sheedy and Judd Nelson. I wanted to be all those people. I was never quite in there. There are contemporaries, aren't they, actually? I guess so. Yeah. You think of them still as, you know, they're all our age. Right, right.

But that would have been the time. That's what was happening with the acting kids. Yeah, yeah. Emilio Estevez yes right yep and i was later in a movie that he directed he's cool have you had him on your i have not talked to him he is a he and they they have good genes in terms of decency and brains those genes do they i mean i don't know the other ones but i know emilio and I know Martin. I've worked with Martin twice. One's kind of a wild card. Yes, I can't speak to that. Thank God.

He definitely has the genes, apparently. He has some genes. He's kicking. He's still going. Yes, yes, exactly. He's put himself through quite a bit.

Yes, yes. Still alive. Yeah, totally. I'm fascinated with that crew, yeah. Yeah, I just, I mean, there was a movie called Cattle Annie and Little Britches about two girl cowboys. And it ended up Amanda Plummer and Diane Lane.

And I thought, that's it. That was my chance. I auditioned horseback riding. They just put you through everything. And they didn't get it. And I thought for sure, oh, well. It was over. Oh, well.

But you did. I mean, it took a while, man. To get through my IMTP. It used to say on there. To sort of really land in it, right? Yeah, it took a long time. I mean, it's kind of like impressive. Volume, if nothing else. Well, I mean, just like, just the TV stuff.

I mean, you were going for a lot. It's fun to watch your face in shock. It just if it was about quantity. Like the Mary Tyler Moore show. I know I was Murray's daughter. This is the thing. I don't know what to do with this information because I'm blind spotting. Everyone is 30, 29.

Yeah. Right. And I just have I'm the older person now with the stories and the, and I, I try to like just bite my tongue cause no one wants to hear. But it's fortunate that you're the old person with the stories that all of them can identify from your career. What do we,

like there's some people that are, have been at it forever and I don't, I don't know them. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I guess so. Like,

you know, you're, you're like have some gravitas at least i don't even know what they know like given their demographic like what did they see twister they saw what else what do they know me from they kind of have to know you from mad about you they yes i guess so of course i don't know even if they didn't watch they saw a billboard a commercial i'm great in the mad about you commercials awesome Awesome. Amazing. Some of my best work. But when you're doing this stuff, I mean, like, when you're on the set with, like, Mary Tyler Moore, are you absorbing things?

Yeah. I mean, that was weird because I'd watched that one. A lot of the things that I did when I was a kid, they were so obscure. I'm like, I guess, am I in outer space or where am I? I'm wherever they say I am. But that one I grew up watching. Right. It was Saturday night or whatever it was.

So suddenly I'm in there. Right. It was Saturday night or whatever it was. Yeah. So suddenly I'm in there. Yeah. That was a trip. But mostly they were more obscure than that. And then... But did you find that

you learned all that you know on the job as opposed... No. Studied, studied acting class acting. Yeah, my dad was my dad forever. Larry Moss forever. Really?

Improv with Gary Austin, you know, started The Groundlings. Yeah. I started studying with him when I was 16 Decades and decades and decades No kidding But your dad taught you? Yeah forever

What did we know that he did? He was the casting director He directed in New York and then we needed more money So he got a job as the casting director Of the Mark Taper Forum And it was when that theater was, you know, zoot suit for the first time. Children of a Lesser God. There'd never been deaf theater that had come up.

Great White Hope with James Earl Jones. Like that place. The one downtown? Yeah, that place, which now gets, you know, wonderful transplants from Broadway. It was alive with things that no one had seen. Leonard Bernstein's Mast. You know that show? It's. It was that kind of place. Leonard Bernstein's Mast, you know that show? It's a crazy drug trip, operatic, wild thing, which I saw 10 times because my dad worked there.

And so I'd do my homework in his office and then go see Leonard Bernstein's Mast for the 10th time. He was the, what was his job? He was the casting director. Oh, casting director. But he was one of the crew of people who would go to the invited dress rehearsal and he'd'd bring around his 10-year-old daughter who, for some reason, was into it. I just loved it. Why wouldn't you? So it was sort of an experimental space in a lot of ways?

I mean, it was a legitimate theater, but it wasn't presenting already presented Broadway shows. It was the place you went for. Tony Kushner. Angels in America started there. I saw it before it ever before George Wolfe even directed it. Gordon Davidson directed it. I was like, what am I seeing? What am I seeing?

That's mind-blowing. I saw Linda Vista there. Tracy Letts' last piece. It's great. I mean, he's great. Slave play is going to come out. Have you seen slave play? No, I've heard about it. You have to buckle your seatbelt. Where'd you see that? New York? Yeah. So you still go to theater all the time?

All the time. That's been one of the most painful parts about the last year. Waiting and waiting and waiting. You love it. At some point, like in my early 20s, I thought, am I going to get bored of acting? And then I started working on Shakespeare and thought you'll never be anything but scrambling to survive if you do it. So you will not be bored. You might be mediocre, but you will not be bored.

I guess you can spend a lifetime trying to kind of, you know, get into those, into the depth of it. And we're at a disadvantage. You know, there's people in the UK who are doing their fourth. They just talk like that? They talk like that, but they also are doing their fourth viola and their third later. You know, that's how you really do it well. Yeah. But I still like trying.

Yeah. I mean, I'm an idiot about Shakespeare, and I'm always slightly, not condescending, but dismissive. Like, anyone cares what I think. I mean, that's not the hill I want to die on, but I'm sort of like, I don't get it. Like it's going to matter that I don't get Shakespeare. Or that that's going to be the thought that wins the day in the end.

It's just a listening thing, man. Because like, you know, these things go on a while and you've got to stay in the saddle with it and you'll glean what's happening even if you don't quite get the language. I think I know why. That's all I know. I don't know how to do it that well,

but I think it's because, do you know the show Sunday in the Park? Yeah. Okay. So it's written. Not only is it about this painter, it's actually the music is pointless painting. Yeah. Right? So Shakespeare, you hear Lear and it's like a storm.

Yeah. Oh, okay. It's actually, so even if you don't get it, something's happening to you. You feel it. Yeah. Right, okay. It's actually your, so even if you don't get it, something's happening to you. You feel it. Yeah. Right, right. You can kind of, and also the stories are pretty classically structured. Yeah, totally.

You know, that guy's in trouble. They are actually the classically, they are classically structured. Right, right. Like the Greeks. Yes, yes. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a matter of spending more time with it. I don't know. Maybe I will.

I've all of a sudden started watching Renoir movies because I'm reading some book by David Thomas. Is that his name? David Thomas, the British critic? I don't know. And about directors. And it's like, I haven't watched the Renoir films. I haven't either. Yeah.

Here I am going again. Who has? A lot of people. I haven't. Important film brains. Important people. There's a couple I saw in film class. But now I'm watching other ones.

I'm like, all right, okay. But maybe I'll get to Shakespeare. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. It could happen. Yeah. But what did your father land on in films? He was a film director, too, wasn't he? No.

TV a little. He did Mad About You, and that started off a kind of 15th career. At 70, he was starting a new career. I think I remember reading about that. He won a DGA award for directing Carl Reiner in an episode that Carl Reiner was in.

That's, he directed a lot of Mad About You? He did. Your dad. We had one that was, I don't know if you saw the show or remember the show,

but we had one that was one shot. Yeah, that was him? Not one take, but one camera, yeah. Did you get him the job?

Kinda, but he had been around. Sure. This is the kindest man you've ever met. Nice guy. Beyond. Mm-hmm. Like, I run into people all the time who put their hand on their heart and say, you're

dead. So, you know, it was a pretty easy ask. Yeah. And Paul loved him, and he did one, and he won a DGA award. So it wasn't like, can my dad do the show? Right. No, right, right, right. Yeah. But he did, so he did a TGA award. So it wasn't like, can my dad do the show? Right, no, right, right, right. But he did, so he did a lot of television. Yeah, he did a lot of television.

And then after that, then he kind of aged out of that because they wanted young people. And he started directing motion capture video games, like when he was 80. Really? Yeah. This is my North Star. It's pretty good. It's great. And your mom was, what did she do?

She's very alive and is a photographer. She never did the show business thing? No. And you have brothers and sisters? I have an older sister, yeah. But I'm sort of the one. The one? The star?

Oh, God. Why, when you say it, I flinch. I'm whatever. I'm an actor. Why do I flinch so bad when you said it I flinch I'm whatever I'm an actor Why do I flinch so bad When you said it I don't know Yeah I mean

But so like I'm just curious Because as an actor And as somebody Who teaches acting So you go through All these classes So the person

Who created the Tell me about this Moss guy Larry Moss I heard his name Yeah he's fancy Yeah I mean that part He coached me

For as good as it gets I said his name On the Oscars And then I was like I can't get you on the phone What happened Oh really, he coached me for as good as it gets. I said his name on the Oscars, and then I was like, I can't get you on the phone. What happened? Oh, really? Because he coached a lot of great. So he's a coach, too. And he was teaching acting before I said his name at the Academy Awards, and it was brilliant.

And then I think a couple of well-known people said his name, and now he's highly celebrated. Yeah, very much. I worked with him on Blindspotting. So when you get a coach, you bring them on? They're on set with you? No, no, no. I worked with them on Blindspotting. So when you do, when you get a coach, you kind of, you bring them on, they're on set with you? No, no, no. I've never done that. I do,

I talk, you know, go see them if there's not a global pandemic. Oh, to try to figure out like a choice,

you know, to figure out what the character wants, how to shape the character, those kind of questions? Yeah, and I can go pretty deep with him.

I've known him a long time. I was in a movie where I was supposed to slap this boy who's a long time. I was in a movie where I was supposed to slap this boy, who's my son. And I was really freaked out about it. And he went, why?

And I said, I don't know. I'm freaked out about it. And so he got down on his knees. He was like, slap me in the face. He said, you're not going to kill me. I mean, I hit like a wall. And he's the kind of person that can see the wall and go, let's figure a way around or through or something right yeah um how some i mean the fun of acting for me now what would you figure out

i don't know if i figured out the psychological no why couldn't you show up with kid i don't know but i did ultimately i did but i didn't like it right I didn't like it. Right. I didn't like it. But you couldn't find the obstacle. I get great joy in a lot of things I get to do as an actor. Not slapping the kid? Slapping Haley Joel Osment did not make me happy, no. Oh. That's who it was.

Yeah. Sweetest kid on earth. Yeah, tough face to hit. Yeah. Yeah. Really tough. Oh, that was, which movie was that? Pay It Forward.

Pay It Forward. Yeah. With Spacey. Yeah. Oh. The whole Forward. Yeah. With Spacey. Yeah. Oh. The whole other story there. Yes. So, but by the time you get, well, tell me about the person who created the Groundlings.

Gary Austin. I heard your interview with Lorraine Newman, and she talked about him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was ground zero of the Groundlings. Yeah. And there was Lorraine and Tim Matheson and three or four other people, but it was Gary. There was Lorraine and Tim Matheson and three or four other people, but it was Gary. And when I was 16, my dad had met Gary and maybe either did a class with him or said, I think it would be fun.

So I went to the Groundlink Theater at 16 years old, and it turns out it was a marathon class. It was six hours of improv. And there were only like six people in there, which means you were constantly working, and I'd never improvised. Have you done improv? Not, I mean, I, I improvised my own thing, but not really with, yeah, I've done movies, whole movies of improv. I, what am I saying? I've not done much stage improv, but I've improvised films and I, you know, improvised standup, but I haven't done the, the sort of the, the stage ones.

So the, the thing, all of the improv games that you do in your class are designed to wear down your desire to look cool. Right. You want to get to the point where you're perfectly happy to be an idiot. That's all those guys on SNL. They don't care. They're like sociopaths. That's what it is. Right.

Something has to chip away at the part of you that goes, I don't want to look dumb. Yeah. But I got thrown in a very deep pool with like six groundlings and I'm 16 and I didn't have like lunch money. So I was hungry. It was a whole thing. But all I know is I left and I was like, when can I go back? And then for the following ever. Yeah.

I've been improvising with him until he passed away. And then I have a friend named Rob Watsky who has a place called Turbine Arts. I improvise with them. Do people know this about you? No, nobody knows anything about me. I'm the worst celebrity in the world. I wear the same khaki pants and do the same six things. My publicist said to me, you are the worst celebrity ever.

A picture of you is worth five cents because you're not doing anything exciting. But I do. I just don't talk about it or something. I don't know. But shouldn't people know to go watch? Probably. I mean, so you go riff? I do. I do. It's, you know, everything's pandemic. So before the pandemic, he would do Sunday improv things. And I think

there was, in one of the cases, there was no back door for security. He didn't want to announce it. You know what I mean? So I would just sneak in and we'd do our thing who how many people um there might be eight of us on stage and wow yeah really fun and whereas the groundlings became i think a lot about characters doing characters yeah this other work that came out of gary's work was more about relationship like you don't have to, there's a thing when you study improv, establish the who, what, and where.

So I come in and I say, hi dad, I'm late for school, let's go. So everybody feels calm because they know what's happening. But in this other version, I might come in and just start shaking my head and then you might shake your head and we assume we both know what we're doing

and then somebody says, I can't believe it. And then you say, I can't believe it either. I'm so sorry. And you know what I mean? You trust for a minute. Someone's got to throw the big card in though, right? At some point. But not rushing is kind of cool

because you're out there like, what's going to happen? You know what I mean? Yeah, because you're just going on the emotion of the moment and playing off the other person. Trusting, trusting that something will happen. And then if it goes one way and you're not acting that way, then it has its own comic dynamic.

Yeah. Oh, that's exciting. I love it. I love it. And you just do this because you have fun? Yep. So, now, Paul Reiser, you talk to him? Yeah, often.

Oh, you do? Yeah, do you know him? No, I mean, we did it years ago. Did he do your show? And it was kind of weird you know it was it was okay but i don't think it was before this was really defined but we had a nice talk he was one of the first guys i i like i i remember i told him the story because it goes nowhere and let's let's hear it again do it again no i just like i remember seeing him in diner and

i remember seeing him do some stand-up on TV. He didn't really stay a stand-up long, in a way. You know, like, he was one, and he was a known one, but it wasn't what he was known for. What was he known for, acting? Yeah, for your show. Right. Right. And he was one of the early guys to really get big roles, you know, as a comic that weren't comic roles necessarily.

But I saw him at the comic strip in New York and I was in college I remember walking up to him going like I really want to do stand up and he was just sitting by himself what do I do

he's like well you just got to do it I'm like great thank you thanks for helping out was it true though in a way

well of course it's true but it's like I don't but you don't know how, but what's he going to tell me? Find an open mic, do whatever, because he came up in a different time. What I can tell you about him is that before I ever met him, he was in Larry Moss's acting class and I was observing.

So in terms of like people who do standup who then become actors, he's the real deal. Well, no, I think he always wanted to be an actor. I think that's why he did standup is what I recall. He's doing standup again though, so he must love it right before the pandemic he was doing it all he's going the ice house and yeah to bring it back to him anyway but um on that show i must be doing it for the same reason you're doing improv yeah he likes it yeah yeah um but i was working i really felt like i was going toe-to-toe with an incredible actor. With Paul? Yeah. Huh. Yeah.

I got a lot. I got certain kinds of attention that he didn't get. Right. But it was a trick because it was totally what I did was funny because what he did, you know, it was one performance. Yeah. And I think he was underappreciated. It feels like he has, like, and obviously he's shown it. He's got a pretty impressive emotional range.

He's able to sort of open it up. Yeah. He's deeply empathetic. I don't know what people think on the outside because I feel like I've never been on the outside with him. We met and we were like, let's go. Oh, yeah? Yeah. So what was that process like?

You've done 900 shows already. That no one saw. Yeah. That 30 people saw um i had finally been in movie you know back in the day i don't know if you remember it but if you were on tv you didn't get to be in movies and if you were in tv or movies you really didn't get to do a play in new york that was like the hierarchy the higher the harder jump was from tv to movies if you were known for tv right and i was just known enough to not

get movies and then i started getting movies i was in this i was in mr saturday night speaking of he became that guy you know um they should reshoot it now um and i was in a movie called the water dance that i loved that was that was maybe the first movie that i felt. This is before Mad About You. That's the real thing. Yeah. And so I did not want to go back and do a TV show. And I really didn't want to do a sitcom, which at that point was the least cool thing you could be doing if you were trying to be a serious actor. And he came to a dinner party at my house. Paul did. Yeah. His wife knew my roommate and there he was. Interesting. And then the next day,

will you read this pilot I have and i thought i say i'm gonna have that i so know that i don't want to do this and then it arrived and it said the untitled paul reiser i'm like oh i'm gonna be the wife yeah yeah yeah and then i read it and thought this is really good and it's a really good part yeah and i'd love to do it so it was like in an instant yeah i hope i get to be in it and that that was that? That was that. And he wanted you? Yeah. That's so interesting to me. And that was a time where,

there's only a few shows that do what that did. Do you know what I mean? It was everything the opposite of what I thought. I thought it would be an easy schedule because I would hear things about four camera shows. We worked till two in the morning. My body broke down from the stress of it. Yeah. And I also thought, I'll get bored of this. And I from the stress of it. Yeah. And I also thought,

I'll get bored of this and I never got bored of it. Why was that? Because the showrunner was... Because it's a different style. Like Friends was more successful than we were, but we tried every week

to have a marriage issue and a scene that actually resolved. You didn't just end on the funny line. Like our style, not better or worse. Right. It had a one-act play vibe that none of us could stand. It's like hearing an off note if you're a musician.

Yeah. If it didn't have a full thing. If it didn't have structure and. You have to keep chipping away. Yeah, we'd be there chipping away. So the writers. And as showrunners came and went, Paul and I were like, you and me. And we both know when it's not working so right and then by that i imagine by whatever season two or three

people knew how to write for the thing ish yeah some yes some no and we were picky yeah we we it mattered to us to be to walk the line of of silly and farce and something real about trying to love somebody. Had you been married at that point yet? No. Not through any of it? No, but I've been in relationships. We all brought our stories in. You know what I mean?

Oh, really? Dumped them desperately. To the writers? Yeah, 22 episodes. A year. I mean, my God. And sometimes 24 episodes. Yeah, yeah.

It's a lot. How many did you do total? I had 100 billion. I don't know. Isn't that crazy? It's a lot. How many did you do total? I had 100 billion. I don't know. Isn't that crazy? It's crazy. Do you still get checks for it? In fact, no, I think I got my big one and then it was over.

Paul gave me as a wrap gift a bound leather book. And the title is Why I'm So Tired. And it's every line I said for seven years. That's hilarious. I know. It's 162 episodes. There you go. And you did it again.

Did you do it again? Yeah. We did 12 right before the pandemic about Empty Nest and the daughter leaving. What was the idea there? Was the idea that you were going to keep it going or you just wanted to knock out 12? We thought people were going to be like banging down our door, to be honest. It was Peter Toland. Do you know Peter Toland?

Yeah. The writer. He's a great guy and a great writer. Rescue Me. And we had him. So you had the old DNA of the show and this voicey guy to not let it just was Peter Toland. Do you know Peter Toland? Yeah, the writer. He's a great guy and a great writer. Rescue Me. We had him. So you had the old DNA of the show and this voicey guy

to not let it just be old and tired. We had a real reason to do it which is their kid is leaving. That's a season. We know when we hit

on something that's a season. Infertility was a season. You know, all that. We were like, how are we going to choose between Amazon and Netflix? And nobody bought it.

No kidding. Yeah. Was it sad? Isn't that crazy? We were just so humble. Like, how could they not want? We'd pitch it and they'd be scream laughing. Right.

I can't believe we're seeing you together. And he and I went, if he were here, you'd see. It's a thing. It's that chemistry of the tired word. But it is real. Like you were married. Yeah. Or, you know, I just love him and he makes me laugh.

Sure. And then finally somebody bought it. It was really hard to get it made. Now it's on Amazon, but it's like that thing of come and do three seasons wasn't even an option. Yeah, so I didn't have to. So what did you walk away feeling after that? Old? I'm glad we did it.

Yeah. Glad we did it. And it was so white. You know, I look back at all those shows, but I'll just talk about mine. You know, the asleep at the wheel lack of... Diversity? Yeah. So that became my and our, you know, we had directors that were only women of color and

men of color and um the cast shifted you know we just did our awkward best to say let's at least be inclusive yeah yeah deeply and no kidding around the crew was as diverse as i've worked with and that takes you have to you know though. You are pushing against the tide to make it happen. But if you, it was one of the few times that I'm like, I'm actually kind of half in charge here. And that's what we're doing. Well, it's great because, like, there's so many voices represented. Like, the idea, like, how it got so institutionalized is through nepotism and through just sort of, you know. I don't know if it was entitlement,

but I just don't think anyone really thought or knew better the institutional racism involved. But I was on GLOW, and that couldn't have been a more diverse set on all levels. The crew, too? Yeah, everybody. And it was like, you know, it feels like what, you know, people being together should feel like. That's it.

I did a show called shots fire that gina prince bythewood did about sort of a ferguson like event and the first day of shooting ferguson happened so it was one of those like china syndrome yeah horrible yeah depression things but i got to the set in atlanta and i bet it was 75 black crew i went oh my god, I have been, as we've established for 100 years, walking onto this white supremacy factory of movie making. So that shifted. This is what blindspotting, this is what I play in blindspotting, the awkward white ally who is opening her mouth and at least opening her mouth.

Well, that's like an an interesting place to be because it's it it's always that's anyone who's an ally is an awkward and white is an awkward white ally yeah like because there's no real way to be like i was on board with this i'm one of you guys no that's that's trap number two yeah for sure but so let me ask you, like, in terms of so you win an Oscar, you're on this long running show now because I was talking to my producer about this, that there's this assumption. And certainly it's an assumption. I think it's with men that you do these things. And after a certain point, you make a certain amount of money with the for the right people. You can do whatever you want.

Yeah. Yeah. But like, because you want to fucking oscar and it didn't seem like right after that it was like i know it feels terrible to hear you say it but it's true i mean i don't know i i i wanted to have a real life i knew that i thought i mean it was weird and in one year i won every one of those awards you can win because i was doing both things at once and both happened to explode. Mad about you or this? Everything. Yeah. I won everything for everything.

Emmy and Oscar. All at once. All right. Okay. And I was 30-something. Yeah. I'd like to have a baby one day. What about a real life?

And I got a little bit of vertigo that things were going to be- Were you married at the time? I was with somebody that I was wanting to have a baby with, so I got married in there somewhere. Yeah. And I got scared that I would be this lifer who never had a life. Okay, so it's partially your choice.

Partially. That does not mean... If Martin Scorsese had said, please come play this part, I would have kept working. So it's some combination of both. I stepped back from a few things because I thought, I'm only now a thing that's acting. I'm not like a thing that's drawing on her life to act. That spooked me a little.

Yeah. And the lack of privacy. Like for one minute I was famous, like followed everywhere famous. Right. That Wayne, thank God, but I thought it would be forever. Right. That really freaked me out. Yeah.

Then I got boring. Wore the same khakis in every picture and it quieted down. Right. I also made a whole person, wrote and directed two movies. Yeah. You know what I mean? No, no, I know what you mean. Like I did stuff.

But I hear that. What happened? And I go, I don't know. I haven't stopped for one second. No, I know. But I guess that's true. I don't mean to contribute to that narrative of what's happened. No, that's okay.

But there it is, I guess. I was just wondering if you felt that there was any resistance in terms of professional resistance. No, because right after I won all those things, I did Cast Away and What Women Want. Those are big. Yeah, they were all big movies. And even Twister was a huge movie. Twister was huge. Now, when I'm doing press for Blindspotting, all the kids say,

you were in Twister. Oh my God. They loved it. They loved it. It's menacing. Yeah, yeah. Giant tornadoes. Yeah.

But yeah, that's true. Those are all big movies. Yeah. I don't know how much you're supposed to, at what level you're supposed to stay at 10

for decades. I don't know how that's supposed to go. I just had a kind of ebb and flow that came partly, and I never would have written,

directed my own thing if I had been offered a ton of movies. Sure. I don't know how that's supposed to go. I just had a kind of ebb and flow that came partly. And I never would have written, directed my own thing if I had been offered a ton of movies. Sure. Well, I guess the question is, so you feel like you've been able to execute whatever you wanted to do? Really? No, I would love to be too busy to do this interview because I've got three incredible giant movies waiting for me. You know what I mean? To act in or direct? To act in.

Oh, yeah. I mean, the thing about directing as a woman is that, yes, people have begun to say hire women. Yeah. But speaking of systemic, the thing is they hire women to do episodic directing. Yeah, right. And you can work for 10 years like I did twice to make an independent movie.

Yeah. But until they say, here's a pilot. Or until they say, here's a hugeing. Right. And you can work for 10 years like I did twice to make an independent movie. Yeah. But until they say, here's a pilot. Right. Or until they say, here's a huge franchise. Right. Go direct this. Yes.

Until they put the money in your lap, it's wet band-aids. You know what I mean? Uh-huh. There's a famous thing that you'd have a movie at Sundance that does really well, and you're a guy, and you're handed a giant franchise movie. Right. And you're a woman. You you're handed a giant franchise movie. Right. And you're a woman, you work really hard, you make a movie, it does well, and then you start over and make it.

With another indie movie. Yeah. Yeah. And I hate to be like a complainer, but I did have that experience. Yeah, well, I mean, my girlfriend, who's no longer with us, was a person who did a lot of independent movies.

I thought about her. Yeah, and she was just starting to do that thing where you get these big, the episodic, the pilot stuff. But I guess she was interesting in that her attitude was she was sort of an auteur thinker. She wanted to have the control

of all those movies she made. And the one time that she was on the dole from a studio, it was a problem. It's terrible. It's terrible. So I don't have I mean, I would only want to do that, I guess, in the land of Oz where it doesn't exist. We are like minded with the money. But how did you feel about the about the one that I saw? Then she found me like in terms of like what did you learn from that I mean my

heart and soul is in that is in that movie and the other movie I directed called Ride and this movie I was in called The Sessions

like at my funeral that's a big movie The Sessions just tell them to watch that yeah do you know James Hellman do you know that writer uh uh

oh my god yeah he's great Soul's Code he wrote a book called The Soul's Code okay he's incredible

yeah Jewish Jungian writers already an interesting cocktail sure I used essays of his He's great. The Soul's Code. He wrote a book called The Soul's Code. Okay. It's incredible. Yeah. Jewish Jungian writers. Already an interesting cocktail. Sure. I used essays of his as the sort of North Star for both of those things. But he says something about biography, which is look at somebody's work when they're gone rather than anything anybody writes about them because like- It's there.

It's in there. Sure. And then She Found Me was about betrayal and betrayal by God. And maybe that's part of it rather than some mistake. Those are big things. You know, that's a life's theme. I know. I know.

It is heavy. Yeah, because there's that scene like, you know, where she won't say the prayer. Yeah. You know, and I don't know know i don't know what what is your relationship do you talk do you have a spiritual relationship i do i do i um i have my own i'm in the other rooms that you're not oh i'm in adjacent rooms oh okay um i dig yeah and um if somebody says do you believe in God, then I freeze up. Right.

But I definitely, like anybody, look up during a pandemic when my kid looks scared and goes, come on, help me. Help me, help me, help me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's what that movie was about. Were you brought up with religion? No. Meditate. My dad meditated his whole life.

I've meditated since. Like TM or just other ones? My dad did TM. Back to David Steinberg. So the first season of Mad About You, I got so overwhelmed that my body started to, I got weird arthritis that's now gone. Really? My body gave out. And then we took a break.

Yeah. And I had knee surgery. They said, there's nothing wrong. This is like a stress thing. And I came back and I said, season two, I need time to do physical therapy. And David Steinberg said, do you ever meditate? And I had taken a class when I was 18. And I remember thinking, if I did this every day, my life would be different.

The TM? And then I blew it off. Right. It's a Tibetan Buddhist thing, but it's even simpler than TM. There's no mantra. Breath. On the exhale, you're done. Thinking when you think.

That's what I've been doing. Don't you? I've been trying for the last few months, just the Headspace app. And it's all about the breathing. But do you still do it? Every day since I was 29. It's a David Steinberg. But I mean every day.

Yeah. Well, Lynn did it twice a day, but she was a TM person. Yeah. It's all the same. It's all the same. It is the same. I really think it is. But where am I supposed to get?

What do you mean? Oh, where are I supposed to get? What do you mean? Oh, where are you supposed to get, you poor thing? You know, not miserable. No, no, I'm not miserable. But, like, when I do it, like, I find that, like, I can, I'm learning the tool of, you know, acknowledging the thought and then, you know, kind of moving them aside. Yeah. And getting into the breath and staying present. But I'm not entirely sure that I'm not thinking about not thinking.

All right. I'm not a master, but here's what I know. You're not supposed to not think if you're not thinking you're dead. It's just noticing it back to the breath. Sure. Yeah, I can do that. Whereas the other, what's 24 hours minus 20 minutes, you're just, you know, that phrase monkey mind, you're just leaping from thought to thought to thought for 20 minutes.

When I realize I'm thinking, which might be 19 minutes into meditating, I'm going to go right thinking and go back to the breath. And someone told me early on, don't ever judge the meditation. Like, that was a good one. No, no, I'm not doing that. And I do feel that I do. What do you find that it does for you in a specific way? The tool of it?

I mean, it's almost I have to answer in reverse. I can't not do it. It's really not like a thing that's a bonus to my day. Like I'm in deep in the red if I don't do it. But like, is it do you do you find yourself like in day to day life, the ability to separate between, you know, and you know stopping the noise can i mean is that something you can engage now i know it's a weird question but no i'm trying to figure out what the benefit is yeah i mean i don't know but i think it's huge when i've gone through really bad and like right around the time the sessions came out i went through bad like something really

bad trauma oh really without going into it because there's kids it was bad it was like a bad one oh and i couldn't i couldn't sit there my meditation was maybe i would listen to somebody for five minutes you know it was too much right but other than that yeah and i'm sure meditating for decades leading up to it helped me not completely fall off the side of the world. Into the sadness. Yeah. I don't even know how to describe it. I just couldn't not do it at this point.

No, I mean, I get it. And I understand why it's good, and I have been doing it, and I think it does make a difference. But, you know, there's still, like, things get dark still. Oh, yeah. Exactly. Did no one tell you that? No, I know, there's still, like, things get dark still. Oh, yeah. Exactly. Did no one tell you that? No, I know that. No, they for sure do.

You know, and I know that some of that darkness is something my mind is generating that's not really hinged to anything. Yeah. But it comes. Well, I guess the theory, and again, I don't, you know, what do I know? But I guess the theory is in the same way you get in the habit of going, oh, there's a thought back to the breath. Sure. This will pass. There's my heartbreak back to the breath.

Right, right. I'm hungry back to the breath. Right, right. This is going really well back to the breath. I'm a piece of shit. You know, like they all, I guess for 20 minutes you hope that they. So you don't hang on the piece of shit one? Well, I think maybe what I would say is for 20 minutes they all have equal weight.

No, I think so. My heart is broken. Right minutes they all have equal weight. No, I have to. My heart is broken. Right. I forgot to feed the cat. Like, it's all the same. Yeah, the world is ending. That seems kind of worth it. Sure.

Yeah, they're all the same. It's all the same. Yeah, but for me in waking life, you know, outside of meditation, they're all the same only it's menacing.

Right. Yes. Everything has the same importance. Like, you know, is my cat sick? Why is the world on fire? Yeah. It's all this. It's all coming at me. No, I'm with you. Me importance. Like, you know, is my cat sick? Why is the world on fire? It's all coming at me. No, I'm with you.

Me too. Yeah? You too? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you do the other thing. I meditate.

Yeah. I have fellowship. I do. I do. Yeah. I've had lots of therapy. Yeah? Yeah.

Still? Yeah. Not all the time now, but yes. Yeah, I don't do it all the time either. I had a big chunk with a pretty brilliant Jungian that changed my brain. Really? Yeah. The Jungian.

So archetypes, collective unconscious, the dream life. Yeah. For me, what it did, because I certainly can't speak like a scholar, is that when you feel flooded because whatever is happening is so enormous someone can say right and here's a story about demeter and persephone and it's ancient yeah and her daughter's abducted yeah and winter forever and you go yeah that's that's where i am on the map okay i'm somewhere right i'm somewhere it's not the only part yeah i'm not it's not my story isn't some mistake.

Yes. Some like aberration. This is a human myth. Yeah, like God didn't fall asleep and then my shit happened. Right, you're not the one. Mine is in the thing. Right. That was a big deal to me.

Well, it's a big deal to me in given what I've gone through and in my life to realize like it's not unusual. Yeah. Tragedy happens. Yeah. I don't know what's, is there a story? Is it Romeo and Juliet yeah i don't know what is there a story is it romeo and jill i don't know what would i don't either but it's just but it's just like you know you're not the victim here necessarily yeah right yeah i mean there are these things yeah that you know that they're they're life lessons that have been written about forever

where you just sort of like nothing if you're a human it's happened whatever you think is special right well that's the thing. Yes. Yeah. But I will also say, though, I've heard this term lately, spiritual bypass. I don't know what that is. Be careful of that one. I don't know what that is.

Everybody's been through that. It's no big deal. So I just won't feel heartbroken right now. You know what I mean? You try to use meditation, use all this good stuff to wiggle out of sometimes I'm just crying. Well, I don't have a problem with that. What I think I'm adverse to is a victim mindset. Me too. good stuff to wiggle out of sometimes i'm just crying well i don't have a problem with that what what what what i think i'm adverse to is a victim mindset for me too and it's and i could go right

there with god on my side and flow charts and proof right oh it's terrible it's it's a martyry thing or whatever like it and i don't want to i don't want to come be yeah it's an either you got that thing in here you don't yeah so i kind of push back on that yeah i don't i don't want to come, yeah, either you got that thing in you or you don't. Yeah. So I kind of push back on that. Yeah, for sure. I don't mind the crying and the heartbreak and trying to be funny in the face of it. Yeah.

But I don't want, the grievancing is too much. Yeah, and then the gratitude helps a little, right? I try that. That kicks you back. I'm going, I'm going. I want everyone else to see your face. Like you ate bad white fish. With the gratitude? This is what you look like.

This is off. This salmon is off. How do you experience gratitude? Do you make a list? Sometimes. I have a friend I call three things. You know, whatever. My dad did it all the time.

My dad would be in the middle of whatever. Yeah. Lunch. Right. Can you believe we get to sit here? Oh, really? I mean, really, all the time. That's how we lived.

So I have that. I have that. Well, then how'd you get nuts? I don't know. Who's your original qualifier? Why did you? You know, I have them. Yeah.

I have them. Yeah. I guess there's a thing of I'm my own qualifier. That's right. That's when you're really black belt. No, I think that's true. Yeah, I have them. I have them. Yeah. I guess there's a thing of I'm my own qualifier. That's right. That's when you're really black belt. No, I think that's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I've like, you know, when you get into the graduate level codependency stuff. Is it my room, your graduate school? Isn't that what they say? Yeah. No, it is kind of. But then there's also SLA, S-L-A-A, which is like sex love addicts and non-addicts. Okay. Don't get me started.

But just love addicts. I mean, you know, the sex thing has its own connotations. But love addiction, that's a whole other fucking, you know. Yeah. Yeah. I may be finally cured if that. Okay. I think it's possible.

Poo, poo, poo. Knock on wood right now. Knock on your desk. Thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah. I, you know, I'm not that, I don't feel encumbered by that stuff. I just get a little, you know, I get a little dry, get a little cranky.

I'm doing stand-up again. It's coming out sort of, you know, dark and angry. And I'm like, you know, why? I was feeling so grounded and really processing. But then I look at everything I've ever done and it's dark and angry. Yeah, but can I just say something? I mean, I know from listening to the show what you've walked through. Right.

We all just went through the apocalypse. What are you going to come out and be like, on the way here? Like, what would that even look like? Yeah, on the way here, the apocalypse happened. I appreciate, I want to say to you that I appreciate what has at least felt like truth. Yeah. If I have like one thing I fucking need. Yeah, right.

Just please truth. Well, I'm doing that. I've experienced not that in a pretty epic level. And so I really appreciate that what I hear when I hear you feels like truth and I'm grateful. Oh, well, thank you. Yeah. Well, that's what I'm doing. But it's hard sometimes to be the truth guy when people are like...

Who's doing that? I don't know that anybody's doing that. I'm making them up. Yeah, I don't think. In my head. You might be, because I don't see them. I have not met those people. When was the last time you did comedy?

Yes. Well, that I don't know. Yeah, yeah. But the people listening to you, I don't see a lot of... No, no, that's true. I don't see a lot of I don't see a lot of eye rolling yeah I'm just trying to figure out how to you know make it you don't want it to be

you don't want to get stuck in one rut anger is easy kind of you angry? can you be? oh yeah I mean I don't live in that place but when I don't get the truth it's like I could if I was a dragon I would exhale and the town would burn but I don't live in that place, but when I don't get the truth, it's like I could, if I was a dragon, I would exhale and the town would burn. But I don't because I'm not in those same rooms.

I don't do it. I have the voice that goes, but you'll just have to clean it up later. You know that thing that says, take a drink, you'll feel great? I go, you're just going to have a headache. So I have that built in. It's good, but when do you get to burn the village down? You know what I mean? You write something, I guess. Yeah, when do you get to burn the village down? You know what I mean? You write something, I guess.

Yeah, when do you? I don't know. When do you? I'm asking you. Oh, I can burn the village down every night. I can go to the comedy store at night and burn the village down. Yeah. It's a living question.

What is this movie that's coming out like? It seems like there's a lot of funny people in it. Do I have a movie? I think so. I'm not kidding when I say do I have a movie. How it ends? What is that? There's a lot of funny people in it. Do I have a movie? I think so. I'm not kidding when I say do I have a movie. How it ends? What is that? There's a lot of funny people in it.

Zoe Lister-Jones, who should be sitting in this chair really soon, I think you would read it. Really? Oh, she's amazing. Okay. I directed her in a TV show she was in with Diane Wiest and a bunch of people. Oh, what TV show is that? Life in Pieces.

There, I remember the name of it. I'm fine. But there was a minute. Yeah. She's amazing. Yeah. And she and I sort of just dug each other right away yeah and um she i related to her because she wrote and directed movies and not enough people saw them but i'm like i see them i see them and they mean something to me yeah and so right in the beginning of lockdown she called and said i don't know how we're going to do it this is before we all had the PPE and we had it down

with the shields and the tests none of that existed yet but she described what it's about which is this woman played by her and her younger self at 15 or something it's the last day on earth and so she travels around and makes amends and

talks to the boyfriend she never had oh so that's why it's such a huge cast. Yeah. Interesting. And so I drove over there. We all were six feet apart. The crew was three. I did one long scene and went home.

And it got into Sundance and it's going to be released. So that's what it is. I only have one scene. And that's why there's so many people. It's a journey. It's ensemble. It's a journey. It is.

It is. But it's almost like she moves through all these people. They all represent something. Yeah. And then she gets to her mother, which is me. Oh, really? Yes. All I see at the bottom is Pauly Shore as himself.

I'm wondering where that lands. I don't know what that is. So did you ever do, like, you never, did you ever, weren't involved with, like, the stand-up world at all? To me, that is, you know, that is. But you never went you ever weren't involved with like the stand up world at all? To me, that is, you know, that is. But you never went to the comedy store back in the day? I went to all those places. Yeah. Do you know Tim Thomerson?

Sure. So Tim Thomerson is one of my greatest friends. Yeah, he did the stagecoach bit. Yeah. Forever. A lot of comics I know go, well, that was the guy. That was the guy before so many guys. So I worked with him twice

like once on a sitcom when i was 16 and once in a b movie you know like that's a good thing about being in 5 000 things that nobody sees i've met a lot of interesting met all of them i've met everybody well it used to be and i love some of them including thomerson it used to be a small town i guess in a way i guess so like you I remember. See the same people in auditions. Right. Yeah. And like, I remember talking to like Ed Begley or somebody and it was like, yeah. I love Ed Begley.

Sure. In the 70s, it was like, you know, there was, you know, there was a hierarchy, but you, you know, if you were going to the parties, you were going to the parties, right? Yeah. And everyone was there. Yeah. The entire 70s. I tell people in my class that are young that think they'll never work that, and it's so easy for me to say, but it's true. When I look back at that age 24, 25, out of work, like if you had one thing to do, you were happy.

Because you went to the gym, and then you had one audition maybe, and then you went to Hugo's or Arts Deli. Sure. And then you all went to a movie because you had nothing to do. Right. That's the most fun I've ever had. And they all want to win an Oscar, and of course they should. I didn't have fun. I had fun at Arts Deli with all my actor friends.

Right. Including Begley. Yeah? Yeah. You knew him back in the day. I know him forever. St. Elsewhere. Oh, yeah.

In fact, when I was going through a hard time, I called him up and I said, I'm not doing well. And he said, I'll meet you at the beach. And we picked up trash on the beach. Because he knows the secret. He knows you got to do something like that to get your... Be of service. Yeah.

Do the thing. Yeah, do the thing. Well, that's sweet. Yeah. I'm glad you have good friends. I have good, good friends. And I'm glad you're stable and your kid's all right. You're all right.

I'm good. Good. Nice talking to you. Nice talking to you. Nice talking to you. That was Helen Hunt, the actress and film director and human. That was great. Her new series, Blindspotting, premieres next Sunday, June 13th. And obviously, you can watch her in anything else.

The movie she made. The movie she's in. I'm sure you can find that about you playing at all times somewhere in the universe uh that's it Dark Fonzie is me and Dean Del Rey there are three of them up where you get podcasts I think it's fun people seem to like it so if you want to check that out go check that out and now I'm gonna play some uh I'm gonna play some texas style blues later texas style maybe it's texas maybe i don't know it's a riff man here's the riff man Thank you. BOOMER LIVES BOOMER LIVES boomer lives monkey and the fonda cat angels everywhere you send letters ship packages and pay a lot less with discounted and pay a lot less with discounted cunt and shit fucking balls in your eat your fucking ass with your hand

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